Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Joe Mantegna

Episode Date: September 28, 2020

Gilbert and Frank talk to Tony-winning actor Joe Mantegna about paying dues, working with primates, portraying Dean Martin, his admiration for Errol Flynn and his long association with Pulitzer-winning playwright David Mamet. Also, Don Ameche busts a gut, Eli Wallach rides the subway, Ben Kingsley takes in a Chicago concert and Joe lands a role in the Italian "Star Wars." PLUS: Super Sugar Crisp! In praise of Tony Bennett! The courage of Lenny Bruce! The genius of Shel Silverstein! And Joe voices an iconic cartoon character! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Nobody goes on vacation for the moments that are just...

okay. That's why Sunwing vacationers go all in like it's a buffet of fun. Whether you're skimming the treetops like Tarzan's long-lost twin or deep end swimming with your flippers and fins.

Or maybe you're just perfecting the art of doing absolutely nothing. Whatever vacationer you are with Sunwing, you save more so you can do more. Book with your local travel agent or hi this is gilbert godfrey this is gilbert godfrey amazing, colossal podcast, and I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. Our guest this week is a producer, director, playwright, voice actor, a Tony-winning Emmy-nominated performer of both stage and screen, and one of the most versatile and admired actors of his generation. He's known to millions of TV viewers for two roles in long-running series, as special agent David Rossi on the popular drama Criminal Minds and the lovable mob boss Fat Tony on The Simpsons, a part he's played for nearly three decades.

You know his memorable work from dozens of feature films such as House of Games, Things Change, The Money Pit, Three Amigos, Searching for Bobby Fischer, Homicide, Bugsy, Body of Evidence, Airheads, Liberty Heights, Up Close and Personal, Cars 2, The Simpsons Movie, and as Dean Martin in the HBO movie The Rat Pack, and of course, as the hot-headed mafiosa Joey Zaza in The Godfather Part III. He's also excelled on the Broadway stage starring in Studs Terkel's Working, Speed the Plow, and winning a much-deserved Tony Award for the role of Ricky Roma in David Mamet's Glengarry Glen Ross. You want more from the guy?

He's also the co-author of a long-running play, Bleacher Bugsugs and a successful director of TV, films, and stage, including the critically acclaimed I'm Not a Comedian, I'm Lenny Bruce. In a career that started way back when he auditioned for a part on West Side Story in Sterling Morton East High School, he's gone on to work with dozens of legends and icons, including Al Pacino, Francis Ford Coppola, Ray Bradbury,

Woody Allen, Shel Silverstein, Richard Pryor, and Warren Beatty, as well as podcast guests Barry Levinson, Jason Alexander, Michael Lehman, and Joe Pantoliano, and James Carrey, just to name a few. Please welcome to the show one of our favorite actors, a performer who's played everyone from George Raft to Fidel Castro, a man who once put on a beetle wig and played in a tribute band called The Weasels,

the multi-talented Joe Montana. Well, thank you very much. That's all I got. That's good. That's good. As Gilbert likes to say, Joe, it also doubles as an obit. Yeah, no kidding. Wow.

No kidding. I could end it with found dead in his Los Angeles. Yes. I'd need a tombstone seven foot tall, though, in small print. That's very good, though. Very good. Now, before anything else, I came upon something, a David Mamet play that I think you were in. And just the title intrigued me.

And that was The disappearance of jews the disappearance of the jews yeah i did the original production of it he in chicago and i think it was 1983 uh the goodman school of drama they were doing these three one acts shell silverstein wrote one that they did wow calledilla. Elaine May wrote one called Hotline that Peter Falk did. And then Mamet wrote this play called Disappearance of the Jews, which I did with another actor. And it was the first time it was done. And then later on, they took it to New York years later on Broadway. It was under the title, I think, The Old Neighborhood.

And it was in conjunction with one or two other pieces. It was like 3-1-X or something like that. But yeah, that was one of the, it wasn't the earliest thing I did with David, but it was one of the things I did do with him earlier in my career. See, now I want to see it, but I want you back in that part. Well, my good friend of Well, it was good. A good friend of mine did it on Broadway. My friend Vinnie Cuestaferro did it in New York. And I know he did a wonderful

job. But yeah, it was a very interesting piece of David's, as many of his things are. And how did you meet David Mamet? Well, as I recall, it was in the early 70s in Chicago. We're both from there.

We're only two weeks apart in age, so somewhat contemporaries in terms of that. But at the time, I was basically a struggling actor in Chicago. He was a struggling playwright. And as I recall, I was visiting the Goodman School of Drama, which is where I had gone to school prior to that and I was just there I think to visit a teacher or something I was there for some business and I remember

I was coming down this it was underground at the time because it was in a part of the Art Institute at that time now it's part of DePaul University but at that time it was part of the Art Institute I was coming down the stairs to go to this meeting and I remember there was this young man coming up the stairs to go to this meeting and i remember there was this young man coming up the stairs who looked about my age and he was dressed very natty which

is very unlike what i would have been dressed at the time but he looked at me he had like it was a winter time he had a scarf and a hat and whatever and he said excuse me joe montana i said yeah he said i i just recently saw you in a play and I was doing a play at the time at the Organic Theater in Chicago. He said, I saw you in the play. He said, I'm a playwright. I'm here just trying to get one of my things produced here at the Goodman, but I really like what you do, and maybe someday I'd love you to do some play with me,

be in one of my shows. And I was like, oh, yeah, great, whoever you are, nice to meet you. And that was it. I mean, it was two ships passing in the night. But as it turned out, you know, there was a follow up. He he actually was taken by a company I was with, Organic, and then came to us with this new play he had written. And he just wanted to hear it. And the play was American Buffalo. And he said, I got this new play. I would just like to hear it.

And our artistic director, Stuart Gordon, who was a very talented individual in his own right, had read the play, thought this guy had some talent, said, yeah, sure, we'll read your play. So we did just a reading for him to hear it. This was myself, an actor, Jack Wallace, another actor named Brian Hickey. We read the three parts. And that kind of started my relationship. Basically, from that point on, he would ask me to, hey, you know, I've got this little thing to do

at the library. You want to? Sure. And that led to doing other roles of his in chicago and that ultimately led to uh ultimately going gary glenn ross a few years later which was a game changer was a game changer definitely for both of us and he wanted to pull a surprise i want to tell me and we couldn't have written a better script for ourselves with that gilbert and i were talking joe and we were impressed that uh you've told this story several times when you didn't get the part of ricky roma in the movie and yet what a stand-up guy david is that he pulled the he he pulled two scripts out of his briefcase that's right yeah he did yeah i i was i'd already done the show in new York for about a year. We now were on a national tour with Peter Falk.

And he came into my dressing room, wherever city we were in, I don't know, San Francisco, Boston, wherever it was. And if anything, David liked his writing. It's very concise. He doesn't like to mince words. He basically walked into my dressing room carrying his little mailbag and said, I just came from a meeting. I sold the rights to my Glenn Ross, the movie.

You're not doing it. And I was like, okay, Dave. Thanks. I guess thanks is no thanks, but okay. But then he said, yeah, he said there were already Pacino's already attached there and it was less fine. He says,

but he reached into his bag and took out these two movie scripts and one was for the movie House of Games and one was for this movie Things Change and he played them on my dressing room table he said I won't make these two movies without you and I said okay well thanks Dave well you know and that that and that's the kind of guy he is, was, and will be in the sense of, it's a man of his word. And that's really the reason I was even in the play in the first place, because when they originally did Clingare on Broadway, they wanted it to be a star vehicle all across the board.

I mean, the next show that opened in New York at that time, a dramatic show, was Hurley Burley, where everybody was a name actor. But so they kind of, they had hoped that Pacino or De Niro At that time, the dramatic show was Hurley Burley, where everybody was a name actor. So they kind of had hoped that Pacino or De Niro were going to actually do the Ricky Roma part in the first production back in 1984. But both of them were occupied, whatever, and I understand it. They took a pass on the play. But David, being the man he was, he basically told the producers, he said, David, being the man he was, he basically told the producers, he said, look, I'm not going to go down the list of every celebrity actor in Hollywood in New York to come up with the cast. He said, let's just cast with the actors that I think are right for the parts.

Go for it. So that play, considering it won a Pulitzer Prize and everything else that went with it. None of our names were on the marquee. We're all, you know, no names above the title, obviously. We're all a bunch of nobodies. But it all worked out. And so I'm forever, obviously, grateful to have had that opportunity and to be part of it. Well, I guess we have something in common. You lost the movie role to Al Pacino.

And I lost the movie role to Billy Barty. That short I got a Gilbert? Was that it? So you lost the part to Pacino. No shame in that. He's a legend. No, not at all. I would have cast him myself at that time. I was nobody.

And I lost it to a 90-year-old midget. At that time, I was nobody. And I lost it to a 90-year-old midget. You know, you had to put shoes on your knees and walk in the room. Maybe, you know, you had a shot. Gilbert, just to keep Joe informed, you also lost a part to Dustin Hoffman. Yes.

And there's no shame in that either. No. Yeah, he lost the part of Mumbles in Dick Tracy, Joe. Well, there you go. Well, actually, Dustin Hoffman and I actually traded parts. He took over a role I couldn't do in one film, and then I did one that he couldn't do in another film. So he and I are equal on that one. There you go.

Yeah, because when I heard about that, that he got my part, film so we you know at least are equal on that one so there you go yeah because i when i when i heard about that that he got my part i thought well the only time my name and dustin hoffman's name could be in the same sentence is we've seen gilbert gottfried's acting and he's no dustin joe we jump all over the place but here's something I saw you say in an interview that indirectly relates to Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross, which, as we said, was a game changer. Were you working on an orangutan TV series right before the big break? Because I think Gilbert auditioned for that same show. And didn't get it. Right.

Well, you didn't lose the part for the orangutan, though, no. It was for another role. I think the orangutan saw my audition. There you go. Yeah, it was called Mr. Smith. That was it. Oh, sure. That was it.

Well, we had the creator of that show was here on this podcast, Ed Weinberger. Ed Weinberger, exactly right. I've told that story. That pretty much was the job I had before Glengarian. And what it was, I played like a thug. I mean, it was an episode of the sitcom, and it was all about this talking orangutan who was due to some accident, of course, was brilliant and could talk.

So I played the guy who was going to kidnap his cousin and hold him hostage. In other words, I found out this guy they had a smart orangutan and i'm gonna get him you know so i had to work every day i had to come to the set at paramount and walked around the lot with this orangutan named bobo and they explained what was the chip named bobo his name waso. And they explained to me. Someone will correct me. It wasn't a chimp. No, no.

They explained to me. They said, look. They said, the first, the most embarrassing thing was when I showed up at the lot. And my dressing room was as big as this chair I'm in right now. But they said, you want to meet the orangutan? I said, well, okay. So they take me to this huge trailer. I mean, the trailer was like a block long, air conditioned.

You walk in and he's laying on a couch. And all I could see is this massive red hair that seemed about 10 feet long, but it was probably only about five feet tall. But they said, Bobo, meet Joe. And he gets off the couch and he looks at me and he puts his arms up. These big hands come on my shoulder. And I'm like, hi, Bobo. And then they start telling me things. They say, okay, don't stare at him because when you stare at him, that's like a sign of aggression. So don't stare at him. And now why don't you walk him around the lot?

But don't hold his hand so tight because he's ten times stronger than you. And if he decides he wants to pull your hand, he could pull your arm out of its socket. So now I'm walking around the lot. I'm not looking at him. you and if he decides he wants to pull your hand he could pull your arm out of its socket so now i'm walking around the lot i'm not looking at him i got a real loose hand on him like this and all i could think of is and every once in a while he was wearing his little pants and a little hat and every once in a while he would stop and he would drop his pants and do his business and then pull his little pants up and i'm walking around the lot thinking you know what my career is not panning out exactly like i had hoped at this point the life of an actor life of

an actor but and and and actually the funniest part of it there was another actor they hired to play my to play like my muscle like the guy guy that's going to protect me. So they hired this guy who was about 6'5", Greek guy. And he had no lines. He just had to be tough. And I remember when they brought him to the set, and at this point I've already worked with Bobo, and I said, so you ready to meet Bobo?

And he goes, what Bobo? I said, the orangutan. And he goes, not real monkey. I go, oh yeah. I go, yeah, it's a real monkey. The guy was deathly afraid of monkeys. So now, when we're doing the scenes, he's supposed to be my bodyguard. He's walking 10 feet behind me.

Like, just he doesn't want to get near the orangutan. And then the last scene of the film, we're in a car. And I'm in the passenger seat. I'm in the driver's seat. No, the driver's seat is the Greek guy. I'm in the passenger seat. And Bobo's in the back seat. And we're in a car, enclosed in the car.

And the trainers had told the Greek guy said don't don't be staring at the monkey you're too nervous because he kept looking over his shoulder because the monkey's in the back seat but when the director said action I was supposed to get out of the car and get Bobo instead I opened the car door the Greek guy Bobo decides to put his hand on the Greek guy's shoulder because he kept looking at him. The Greek guy freaks out, does this, hits Bobo in the nose. Bobo gets scared, wraps his arms around the guy's head. And all I could see is a red

fur covering this. Holy Christ. And they told us if he holds you, just be loose. Well, this guy was being anything but loose. His head was like in cement being held, but the body was going flipping around inside the car. And I'm staring at this. And by now the trainers are running. And I heard the words I never wanted to hear. Get the chains.

Get the chains. And they literally had to subdue him i mean it was just afraid he wasn't being aggressive he was just afraid but he wrapped the guy up and the guy was not the guy was paralyzed the guy they finally peeled him off the guy the guy rolled out of the car he was a mess he had to let him go i mean he was just he was like like that and then of course did the producers look at me and say, do you think we could finish? And I'm like, you know, and then finally some wiser minds prevailed. And he said, let's wrap.

We'll do this tomorrow. We'll wrap this up. Of course, then the next day they had one of the trainers. We had to reshoot a couple of things. One of the trainers played the bodyguard, which they should have done in the first place, obviously, in retrospect. But that was my experience with Bobo and Mr. Smith. How did you not get that part? Yeah, I auditioned for it.

It's famous as being one of the worst TV shows ever made. I auditioned and wasn't good enough for it. Well, apparently I was I was good enough for it. Well, apparently I was good enough. The highs and lows of an actor's career, Joe. Oh, man. One day you're walking around a chimp on a lot. The next day you're winning a Tony. Yeah, well, like I said, sometimes that's the way things happen.

That's what's fun about this business. And I don't know much about orangutans. I know chimps are horrible creatures. I have nothing bad to say about Bobo. It really wasn't on him. Bobo appreciates that. But I remember one thing I noticed,

they would never let him be together with the other orangutan, who was Mr. Smith. Obviously there were two because he was playing the cousin. I said how come you guys I never see them together you never let them like play and stuff and I remember the trainer saying to me he says oh no we can't let them play with each other because then they'll know they then they won't realize that they're stronger than we are because they start roughhousing with each other if we start to step in they'll throw us around like i don't think i'm good to know you know

good to know so that's why they will not let them kind of um you know and i know chimpanzees instinctively uh will go for your uh genital Well, the one thing they did say, and that's why I could never do the part now, they said you couldn't have, anybody on the set couldn't have white hair, white hair, gray hair, and you couldn't have a woman who was, you know,

menstruating, you know, because they pick up on that. And something about the white hair flips them out, too. So that was kind of two of the things that was like a no-no on the set. Yeah. I know, like, some guy, aside from ripping his face off, they mutilated his dick and balls. They go for the nuts.

They go for the nuts. This is a recurring motif on this podcast, Gilbert. We've had so many actors that work with chimps and work with monkeys. It's the road to success, I suppose. By the way, when you won that Tony, did you have to explain to your mom, who lived to the ripe old age of 101, you had to explain to her what a Tony was? I did. Mom and Aunt Lolly?

I did. I absolutely did, which was wonderful in a way, ripe old age of 101 but yes you had to explain to her what a tony was i did mom and aunt lolly i did i absolutely did which was which was wonderful in a way because i think it's kind of i would hope to think it's somewhat kept me grounded in my life and career because because you got to figure how how big a head could i get but i'm not even sure my mother at 101 years really knew what it did for a living you know and so when so when I told her I wanted to watch the television, I said, watch the show. And I thanked her. I thanked my wife and thanked her.

And afterwards, she said, she couldn't still remember what it was, but she kept telling her friends that I won the Oscar for the plays. So that was her line. I won the Oscar for the plays. And then when I got the series,

like Gary, people would say, oh, watch him in this thing, or we hear there, whatever. She'd kind of understand it. But when I got the series, Criminal Minds, she called my brother. And I didn't find this out until her funeral. My brother was speaking at, of course, open funeral. My brother got up to speak and said, my brother's eight didn't find this out till her funeral. My brother was speaking at the funeral.

My brother got up to speak and said, my brother's eight years older than I am. He said, my brother, Joe, Joey doesn't even know this, but when he got the serious criminal minds, our mother called me and she says,

Ronnie, I'm worried about Joe. And my brother says, why are you worried about Joe? And she says, he's only working an hour a week. And she was dead serious. Hilarious.

Because they told her, okay, now you can see him every Wednesday at nine on this channel. She would do it, and then she'd go, I don't know. Before, she'd see reruns of films and things, figuring, no, one hour a week is not going to cut it. And my brother had to reassure, it's okay.

It's okay. He's doing fine. But, yeah, that was my mother. God bless her. Gil, do you want to know, I do, if Joe has any good Peter Falk stories? Absolutely. You toured with Falk and Glenn Gary.

You wound up directing him in another Mammoth movie years later in Lake Bowie. Oh, yeah. God, I loved him to death. I mean, he was such a dear man, a dear friend, an incredible talent. I mean, there was a lot of different stories. I mean, I remember when we were in San Francisco, and he'd love to go out to dinner, of course, nice places. And he happened to know this one chef who was French, would open this restaurant in San Francisco. And the guy had been the chef to President Kennedy during the Kennedy administration.

So now we go to the restaurant, Peter and I, and the chef, of course, comes and sits with us at the table. And I'm fascinated because I want to hear stories a little bit. So I say to him, I said, so what was it like, you know, being a chef for Kennedy? He goes, oh, it was wonderful, you know, with the Jacqueline. And then I said, well, what happened after the assassination? Did it change at all? And he said, well, yes. He said, when Lyndon Johnson become president, we thought it was only proper that we offer a resignation.

But he said, no, no, no. You stay on to the term of Kennedy and you'll be the chef. And so we did. And so then Peter says to me, what was that like? Was it the same? And the guy goes, he goes, oh, no, no, no, no. He goes, it was very difficult

because Lyndon Johnson, everything was barbecue, barbecue, barbecue, and with the white gloves, you cannot eat the barbecue. That's funny. Peter and I both got a good chuckle out of that one the barbecue we had a handful of people on this show who worked with him Paul Reiser and Andrew Bergman

and their in-laws well I put him together with Paul because Paul called me and wanted he was doing this movie and he idolized Peter and wanted him to play his father in this movie the thing about my folks yeah wanted him to play his father in this movie. And he asked about my folks. Yeah.

So he asked me to do a mitzvah, you know. And so I basically called up Peter and says, look, I got this friend. Check it out. He'd love you to play his dad. See if it works out. And I'm so glad that it did. And it's funny because we also had Alan Arkin. Yeah, we had Arkin a few weeks ago. Oh, he's great.

Yeah, I worked with his son, actually. Adam. Yeah, we had them together. Oh, great. Great. Great guys. Very talented family. Great guys.

We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast after this. Baseball is finally back. Get in on Major League action and swing for the fences with BetMGM, the king of sportsbooks. Log in or sign up to play along as BetMGM brings the real-time action. Embrace a season's worth of swings with BetMGM, your one-stop shop for all things baseball. BetMGM.com for Ts and Cs. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only.

Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. This is a paid advertisement from BetterHelp. As a podcast listener, you've heard from us before. Today, let's hear what members have told us. One member said, I would recommend my therapist 1,000 times over. She has truly changed my life. Another member said, the day after my first 1,000 times over. She has truly changed my life.

Another member said, the day after my first session, my friends and family said I sounded like myself again for the first time in weeks. You deserve to invest in your well-being. Visit BetterHelp.com to see what it can do for you. That's BetterHelp.com. Now, you directed not only Falk in that movie, Lake Boat, but another one of Gilbert's absolute favorites, and mine, the great Charles Durning. God, yes, I love Charlie to death. We did a few things together. We did a movie called Jerry and Tom that Saul Rubinick directed, Rick Leland wrote.

And then I remember when I did the series, it was a series I did called First Monday with James Garner. It didn't last long. It was all about the Supreme Court. And I remember Don Bellisario was looking to hire an actor to play the senior member on the court. He was going to play him in a wheelchair and play him like an old guy. And they had gone out to Carl Malden,

and Carl was kind of like in ill health at the time and took a pass on it. But I suggested, I said to Don, I said, you've got to go with Charlie Durning. I said, the guy's brilliant. And of course, the image was, he goes, well, gee, I don't know. He's kind of, he's getting up there in age and seems kind of heavy. I mean, well, is he up to the rigors

of doing a, you know, a Howard drama television? I said, look, I had him on an 800-foot freighter in Toronto, and he was running up and down stairs on this boat for like two weeks. I said, don't worry about Charlie. And, of course, he hired Charlie, and Don fell in love with him, as everybody did. And so Charlie was on that series for the 13th episode.

And him and Garner, of course, also hit it off really well. Oh, that's great. They became very, very dear friends, which was great. And another great old character, actor that you, was in Godfather III, Eli Wallach. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. There was a kind of a funny story with Eli Wallach and George Hamilton and I. We were all in the film together.

And we were in Rome, shooting in Rome, and we would take the subway to get to Chinichita Studios from our hotel because it was faster with Rome traffic than being in the car that they would send for us. So one of the times, Eli and George and I are on the subway, and we're chatting. It was after filming. We were on our way back to the hotel and it was late at night.

And we're chatting and chatting. And finally the train stops. And then we hear the conductor in Italian basically say, Ucce, ucce, finito. Basically what he was saying is we're at the end of the line. Everybody off. This is it. We're done for the night. had we've been so busy talking we missed our stop and gone like three stops past it so now everybody

clears off the train we're sitting there alone myself eli and george hamilton now the conductor comes in and he looks at us i speak a little italian so i mean i started to explain to him i said scusi you know we, we missed our stop. And he said, no, finito. You know, da-da-da-da. And he looks at Eli, and he looks at me. And then he looks at George. And when he looks at George, he goes,

ah, Dracula! Dracula! Dracula! And he recognizes George from, you know, Love at First Bite, I think. Oh, that's great. And he says, so then he goes, no problem. He goes, he takes out a keys out of his pocket.

He gets it to the next car and turns, starts the train up. And now we've got our own private train going back. We're whipping past stops. And I can see guys on this and I could see cleaning guys on the station looking like, what the hell's going on? The last train was half an hour ago. Only in Italy.

My money would have been on him recognizing Wallach from the Leone. From the good, the bad, and the ugly. I don't think this guy was the Leone guy. I think he was more the Dracula guy. Dracula. But Eli was great, as you can imagine.

And I would, you know, just in the end, of course, he was with Ann Jackson then. And it was just, yeah, working with the, and of course, I worked with the great Don Amici and things changed. So, I mean, working with those great Hollywood legends have been a real thrill for me in my career. Definitely. I just watch things change, and it's so sweet. And I think it's my favorite Mamet picture. But you guys, the two of you, have such wonderful chemistry. Well, we had a great, yeah.

You and Amici. And Shel Silverstein, you know, was involved in that. And this is a funny story especially about this you do since i already said my wife arlene this pertains to her myself donna michi david mammett and shell silverstock who co-wrote the script with mammett we're in lake tahoe and we're shooting at the cal neville lodge which was sinatra had owned it at one time and we're going to shoot some scenes there so we're walking to the set So we're walking to the set. As we're walking to the set, the four of us are talking, chatting.

The extras for the upcoming scene are coming the other way, and this one girl, gorgeous, blonde, just beautiful extra, looks at me as she's passing and goes, Oh, Mr. Montagna, I hope you're having a good morning. But she's got a bit of an accent. And I go, oh, thank you. I said, what is that accent? It sounds a little familiar. She goes, oh, I'm from Czechoslovakia. And I go, oh, I said, my wife is Czechoslovakian. And she goes, oh, thank you. And it keeps going. So now we walk about three more steps and then Shel Silverstein starts. Of all the things that you could have said to this bra when she said, good morning, Mr.

Bontane, you got to say, my wife is Jekyll's wife. instead of, and then he gives on to this litany of the most outrageous sexual things you could think of. And Don Amici, I thought Don Amici was going to die because he's laughing so hard, he's choking. And whenever Mamet and I get together, we often look at each other and say, you know, and my wife is Czechoslovak. That's hilarious. We're fans of Shel Silverstein here on this show. we often look at each other and say, you know, and my wife is Jack O'Sullivan. That's hilarious. We're fans of Shel Silverstein here on this show, not only as an author, but as a songwriter.

Oh, without question. Cover the Rolling Stone and Boy Named Sue. Oh, without question. And Sylvia's mother. Right. No, he was, yeah, he was, and he'd entertain us for hours, like, you know, like at rap parties and stuff like that. He'd pull out the guitar and start singing some of his stuff. He was a total Renaissance man, just a great, great individual.

Mamet has interesting collaborators, not only Shell Silverstein, but of all people, the co-writer or co-plotter of House of Games, our friend Jonathan Katz. Johnny Katz, yeah. He's been on this show. One of the funniest men in the world. Oh, yeah. Johnny was great. I remember he did an outtake in the film of Homicide.

You know, Dave would throw him in, you know, a little bit. Yeah, in the Mammoth Stock Company. Yeah, so this one scene in Homicide, he's playing the rabbi and it's a serious scene and it's supposed to be that we're offering our condolences to the family of this woman who passed away and uh and here's uh here he is with the yarmulke on and all the stuff and playing the rabbi jonathan and then he gets to one little bit in in this dialogue where i guess he's trying to show them this information in the, I don't know, whatever it is, some sort of paper. Maybe it was the Torah. I don't know.

But he's showing him this stuff. And then he goes, oh, here, let me skip. Let me just skip ahead. And then, of course, he drops the thing and then starts skipping around. And they kept the cameras going. skip ahead and then of course he drops the thing and then starts skipping around exactly what i mean and they kept the cameras going and so that was a very funny man and turns up and things change too as uh yeah as the as the as the low-rent comedian yes the comedian the mc that kind of blows our cover yeah jackie shore yeah yeah exactly. And tell us about a character we already introduced,

and that's your gangster character, Fat Tony. Oh, yeah. Well, that was, you know, I just finished, or the film Godfather, I think, had just come out. It was like they came out at Christmas of 1990. And so this was like February of, like, 91. And so I think I can only guess that they decided well let's get

Joe Mantegna to play this character because he just played Joey Zaza in The Godfather it fits. I thought it was going to be a one shot deal. I read the script The Simpsons had only been on two seasons at that point. I said yeah this would be fun and I remember when I went to

the recording, and back then, you know, The Simpsons was not the big deal it is today. I mean, we record in the basement of 20th Century Fox, just where little microphones are on. They had a ping pong table over here, and then they had microphones and music stands. And I remember, they hadn't given me any real direction in terms of how I should do it. You know, they said, well, you know, let's hear what you got. And all I could think of is I don't want to sound like myself because I don't want to sound like Joey Zaza because I just thought I just played that role. I can't do that.

So all I could think of was my Uncle Willie, my mother's brother, who actually talks like this. This was his voice. So I said, well, you you know what i'll do my homage to uncle willie unless they say don't do that i'm gonna just do it so i started doing it talking like this you know yeah okay how you doing and nobody said stop and next thing you know 30 years later i'm still doing incredible and god bless one time, I did bring him about, you know, he's since passed away. He lived in his 90s. But I brought him to the recording one day about maybe five, six years ago.

And I brought him in and I says, excuse me, I want you to meet somebody. I said, Willie, say hello to everybody. Yeah, how you doing? And they all went, hello. It's Uncle Willie. It's Tony. It's Uncle Willie. It's Tony. It's Willie. I love how emotional and sensitive Tony is that he cries at the divine secrets of the

Aya sisterhood. Of course. Of course he does. And he cried at Toy Story 2. Of course he does. He's very emotional. He's a very sensitive mob boss. Yeah, he's a very sensitive mob boss.

He's a very sensitive mob boss. Yeah, he's a very sensitive mob boss. No, I think my favorite Fat Tony plot is when he tries to, he's milking rats. Yes. Well, of course he is. He's trying to sell rat milk. Hey, what? Oat milk is big right now. Why not rat milk?

Right. I mean, you know. He says, I don't get it. Everybody loves rats, but they don't want to drink the rat's milk. Exactly. If anything, he's logical. You know what I mean? Exactly.

Me and the boys wish to thank you for hanging on to this stuff for us. Thanks. Uh, say, are you guys crooks? But, um, is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family? No. Well, suppose you got a large starving family. Is it wrong to steal a truckload of bread to feed them? Uh-uh.

And what if your family don't like bread? They like cigarettes. I guess that's okay. Now, what if instead of giving them away, you sold them at a price that was practically giving them away? Would that be a crime, Bart? Hell no. Enjoy your gift.

Supribe. It's a great character. I have one question here from a listener about that. Okay. Joe, this may be a long shot, but Joe Kilmartin says, a question involving Fat Tony, did Joe in all these years ever hear an actual mobster's opinion

of his portrayal of the character or the character itself? I can't say that I did about the character, but I will say this. I was in, a dear friend of mine and I was doing a movie in Montreal. And I have a favorite restaurant in Montreal.

I don't even think it's there anymore, but it was in old Montreal. And I remember it was before it opened. It was like, it opened at 5 o'clock and it was about 4.30. And we happened to be in old Montreal, my friend and I. And we walked back to the restaurant and I looked in the window. And I could see the two owners who were brothers talking to this gentleman who was very natty, very well-dressed. And I knocked on the window, and they saw me, and I just kind of waved and pointed to my watch like, are you going to be open? Come in, come in, come in now.

And I'm saying, I'll come back. No, no, no, come in. So I come in. So the place is empty. My friend and I at this table, they continue their conversation with this guy. Now, they're getting ready to open. It's five o'clock. The guy walks up to the table, and they just introduce him by his first name. Oh, Joe, this is, you know, whatever. His name was Alfonso or something.

And the guy says to me, he has a bit of an Italian accent. He goes, excuse me, Mr. Mundane, I want to ask you something. In these movies, like I see you in the movie, The Godfather 3, do you think they are doing an adequate or realistic portrayal of what that life is like with men who are in that kind of world? And I looked at him and I said, yeah, I think pretty much. I think it's pretty close to what it is. And he looks at me and he goes, I think so too. And then he walked out the door and I looked at my two friends who owned the restaurant and I went, is he? And they went,

oh yeah. He was like the number one guy in all of Canada. You know what I mean? Right. It was like, okay. All right. This is not a visual podcast, so we'll tell everybody that George is Oh, yeah. I bent my nose over.

And during the making of Godfather 3, which was like your character was like kind of based on John Gotti. Well, there was talk about that. Yeah, in other words, because they called, yeah, because I was, I do have that speech in there where I talk about my bella figura. In other words, I'm well-dressed. Which is a lot of similarities. There's a story that goes with that.

Because we're shooting in Little Italy. We're shooting right across from the social club where John held court and was a member of or whatever it was. So I remember sitting in my chair one day on the set and the stunt coordinator comes up to me. He goes, Mr. Mattini, two of Mr. Gotti's bodyguards would like to meet you to say hello. And I was like, oh, sure. Great. say hello and i was like oh sure great so so these two guys come over who were like

two very italianate looking men you know but much bigger than i am you know and they've got that look i mean they were very well dressed very polite and and uh and and they they came up and they were and they said mr montaigne we just wanted to say hello. We know you're shooting this film in the neighborhood here. And actually, we've actually heard that the character might be somewhat patterned over to Mr. Gotti. Now, I don't know what the right answer is to that question. No, it may not be one. Yeah, but what I said was the truth. And what I said was, I said, look, you know, you probably have to talk to Mr. Coppola, Mr. Puzo, where they're coming from, their inspiration.

I says, I don't know about that. I said, but I work with the script and I play the character as it's written. But I say, but, you know, but I love doing the character. And I think it's it's very classy. I don't know what I was saying. I was I was dancing as fast as I could. But they were very polite. And that was all.

It was no big deal. But actually the funniest thing that happened on the set, though, was another time I come to get my chair, and my chair is gone. The chair that says, you know, Joe Mantegna on the back, Godfather 3. And I said, where's my chair? And then I remember one of the teamsters says to me, he says, you know what? We're shooting in front of these people's store and the grandmother wants to meet you. So her sons came and took your chair and brought it into the store.

Figuring the only way you're going to get it back is if you go in the store and meet with her. So, of course, you know, this is what you got to do. We're in Little Italy, New York. I get it. I mean, of course, but I get what you got to do we're in little italy new york i get it i mean of course but i get it so i i go down the street i walk into the store and they're all in their sons the daughters and the old lady is sitting in my chair in the middle of the room waiting for me to show up and it's like i came i did my thing you know said hello we said all the right things blah blah give her a kiss on the cheek. You know, they gave me a bag of cannolis, and off I go with the chair.

How'd you like working with Coppola? I mean, you're a film buff like us. Gilbert loves the conversation. Yeah. We love, obviously, Apocalypse Now. Obviously, the first, the Godfather pictures. I mean, you felt like you were cast in the italian star wars exactly right this is what my dear friend vinnie quest the pharaoh said to me when i got the role he says oh man you're gonna be in the italian star wars and that's is what it was like i mean you know arguably not arguably the greatest directors

who ever lived one of the greatest filmmakers ever. So it was a real joy because it was the whole package. I mean, any question you would have, any sort of conversation you'd want to have, he would go into whatever you need, he was there with it. And it was open to improvisation, which was interesting. And a lot of it we weren't even aware of. There's a scene in the movie where if you watch the movie, there's a scene where I walk around the table and I say to Pacino, I say, I'd like to get a little pin from the Pope.

That line, I never realized that line had been shot because what had happened is we had shot the scene a few times in a Coppola city, and the cameras are all hidden behind the set piece. He says, why don't you guys just put the whole thing in your own words this time? Just do the scene, but just make it up. You know what it's about. And so Al and I and the rest of the actors, we had lit the scene. And that was one of the lines I just kind of came up with. I never didn't think twice about it again. And then it wasn't until I saw the movie, I realized, oh my God, he actually had the cameras rolling, took that little line out and used it. And it was the same thing.

I make a Don Amici reference in the movie. People may not remember, but in the movie, they're interviewing me as Joey Zaza. And we're supposedly having the Meucci parade. Meucci is supposedly the persons that Italians think invented the telephone, not Alexander Graham Bell. So we were having the Meucci parade, right? So there's a scene where the people in the press are interviewing Joey Zaza. So Joey, what do you think about doing this parade, the Meucci parade? And I just threw this in as an ad lib. I said, the Italians are great. Meucci is great for being italian

donna mici is great for playing the guy that they think invented the telephone that's fantastic and and of course they left it in the movie and what was great is when the movie opened on christmas day i remember i was living in new york and i got a call and it was donna mici and he had left it on my answering machine at the apartment because I wasn't home when he called. And on the machine, I played it and it said, Joe, this is Don. I was at the movies today with my agent and we happened to see Godfather 3.

I have a feeling you had something to do with that line about me playing Alexander Graham Bell. I just want to thank you for that. And I was just so thrilled. I appreciate that. Well, there was a time they referred to the telephone as the Amici. Exactly right. No, exactly right.

Yeah, Italian-Americans certainly did. Exactly right. My mom told me that growing up in Brooklyn. And how did you find out that you got the part in Godfather 3? Oh, yeah. That was interesting. We're living in Studio City,ifornia and we would go to this restaurant in the neighborhood and it was a friday night and i remember my wife had a taste for linguine you know linguine and clams or whatever it was and i said well i'll go over to the

restaurant around the corner and get it so i go over there and i walk in the two italian brothers owned the restaurant and as i walk in the one brother goes, you son of a gun, are you going to be in The Godfather? Now, I knew I was being considered for the role. You know, I mean, I knew that much. But, you know, that's all I knew. I said, what are you talking about? He goes, I don't know, play coy with me. You're going to be in The Godfather.

He's hugging me, kissing me. I said, i said what are you talking about he goes he goes look my nephew just called my nephew works in the casting department at uh paramount pictures he said he was in the office he was willing to get something they're pasting the photos up under the wall they got al pacino they got diana keaton about joe montana and they got them up on the wall. He said, that's what they do. They put the picture up under the wall.

You got to depart. You know that. And I said, well, yeah, I got to go. And they're like, dash home. I get on the phone. I call my agent at home. I said, what the hell? I said, I just got to go.

The pizza guy around the corner just says, I got to depart. He goes, I was just going to call you. I just got the call to tell you that you got the role so i says oh great so the pizza guy around the corner he's higher on the list you know he gets the info first then the agent but that's that's how i found out that is bizarre yeah and what was it like working with wo Allen well I mean it was kind of first of all it almost didn't happen because I I uh I just finished doing the play Speed the Plow on Broadway with Madonna 19 and one of the results of it I had I had a thing called Bell's Palsy people know what that is it's just it's a facial thing that all of a sudden it's like a virus that hits your face and you kind that hits your face.

And you kind of have your face gets kind of frozen temporarily for weeks on end. Then it goes away. This happened to me, like I said, 20 something years ago. So anyways, I realized that I have to recoup from that. I have to let this thing settle down. I get a letter and a script comes to my house and it's a FedEx and I open the envelope and inside is a script, but there's no title page, nothing. It's just a script. And then there's a letter and the letter says, dear Mr. Joe Montagna, I would love you to be in my next movie. You'll play this part. If you don't like it, you can't do it, don't worry, I'll use you another time.

Sincerely, Wendy. And then inside was a return envelope to send the movie back. To send the script back. All made up. And I'm thinking, I don't know anybody named Wendy. Wendy? Yeah, Wendy. I'm thinking it's an unsolicited script because everything was typewritten except for the signature.

So I'm about to throw it away. Thinking, you know, it's just an unsolicited. But I call agent i said look i got this thing in the mail uh from fedex and it says something did we get a call from somebody named wendy and i explained them and he goes no he goes but i was going to tell you woody allen's office is sending you a script and then i look close and i'm thinking oh oh, that E could be two O's. So it's really W-O-O, not W-E-N-D-Y. It's Woody. And I'm like, oh, my God, it's Woody Allen here. I'm throwing this. And he is so protective of his scripts, that's why there's no cover page.

So there's no way of identifying who wrote it or anything. So in other words, he's so paranoid about that. So luck, I didn't throw it away, but I couldn't do the role. annoyed about that. So luck, I didn't throw it away, but I couldn't do the role. But since he had said, he said, he said, he basically said, if, if you don't decide not to do it for whatever reason, I will use you another time. So I figured he's a comedian. He gets, he's got a sense of humor. I'll write him back. And I said, look, Mr. Allen, bloody blah, blah, blah. Thank you. But I'm just recovering from this facial thing. I really can't do any filming for I'm sure for a couple of months now. I said, but as a joke, I put being, you know, Italian American and half Sicilian.

Just know you told me you would use me again. Don't fuck with me. And then sincerely, Joe Montaigne. Now, I don't know if he took it as a joke or not as a joke, but all I can say is it was less than a year later. His next movie. I got the call. What was the movie you couldn't do? Was it Bullets Over Broadway?

No, no. It was way before that. Crimes and Misdemeanors? No, it was... Radio Days? I think it was Brothers and Sisters or something. Oh, yeah. Hannah and Her Sisters.

No, not that one. It was another one. It was the play of Rabbi... And what's his name wound up doing it? I think Alan Waldo wound up playing the part. I'm not sure. I can't remember. It was the one before Alice, because I did the next picture I did.

It was Crimes of Mr. Mears. With Martin Landau. It was Sam Water before Alice, because I did the next picture I did. It was Crimes and Misdemeanors. Yeah, with Martin Landau. It was Sam Waterston playing around. Sam Waterston. Oh, Sam Waterston. Yeah, Crimes and Misdemeanors. It was Crimes and Misdemeanors. In 89.

That's right. Alice is a good little picture. Oh, I loved it. One of the Alan pictures people don't talk about as much as they should. You played the jazz man. Yeah. Yeah, no, I loved him. Good film.

Good film. I had a great time. Good film, good cast. Great cast, yeah. Wonderful. All his cast was wonderful. And we all grew up watching the same movies on television, and I heard you were a big Bowery boy.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I knew him as the Dead End Kids. Yes. That's what we used to call him. yeah very much so and then uh and i got to know uh you know a few of them later on because the one son became an acting teacher and i think my daughter one of my daughters kind of even got to know him uh but you know hunts hall gabe dell gabe dell's son i think became an acting teacher oh interesting um but yeah i thought they were just you know to me they were you know it was it was wonderful i mean i love the old movies in it movies from the and the movie dead end actual movie dead end is such a great

film yeah classic film and that's what introduced those guys you know and then of course they became a thing unto themselves uh but yeah, I love the dead-end kids and then ultimately the Bowery Boys. There was a lesser Bowery Boy named Stanley Clemens. Do you know, do you remember him? Him, I can't recall the name. If I saw the face, I probably would. Okay, take a look.

I bring him up because he used to chase my mother home from elementary school and try to kiss her. Well, that's a compliment. My grandmother hit him with a broom. He wound up in the Bowery Boys. Oh, there you go. Yeah, a lesser light. And Leo Gorsi's father used to be Louis the candy store owner.

Right, well, really. Louis Dombrowski. Yeah, Louis. Yeah, Leo Gorsi, Gabe Dell, Hunts Hall, they were all I mean, to me, there was a sort of golden age of Hollywood that whole time. Gil and I were digging around and were you a Marx Brothers guy too? Like us? Oh yeah, very much so.

Well, Errol, my star in the Walk of Fame I had, they let you choose where you can put it if the space is available. And I asked to be put next to Errol Flynn because the movie Robin Hood to me was, you know, just such an important film in my childhood. So, yeah.

Okay, Errol Flynn hated the Jews. He did? Yeah, he did. No, but you know what? You know what? I don't know if that's true, Gilbert, because I read his book. Now, of course, the guy's going to write his own book. He's going to say that.

I think where that started is because and this is Errol's explanation. He he they shot him. He was upon the Warner Brothers. He was part of the Warner Brothers, you know, contract as many were. I'm a member of that of the golf course, Lakeside Golf Course, which is right across the street from Warner Brothers. Back then, I guess it was, I think it was restricted, as many of those places

kind of were, different golf courses. They had the Jewish golf courses, the non-Jewish golf courses, whatever. This, I'm talking back in the 30s. Apparently, Lakeside was Flynn being Flynn. at least he says this in his book he says i didn't know he says jack warner hated me because i was a member and i don't know if he was a member if he just played there or whatever but flynn's thing was he says i

didn't give a shit what was the membership and i don't care about you know that aspect of it but apparently jack warner resented the fact that he played golf at lakeside and accused him of being you know anti-semitic as a result of it so i'd like to think that that's true because i i got to know errol's daughter who was a set photographer and she was of course very you know taken that i chose to have my star next to him but only because like i said i i just loved him as an actor as to you know his politics were, who knows? Well, his life was shrouded in mystery. He was supposedly a Nazi spy.

Yeah, yeah. That's what I mean. I don't know. I don't know. Sells books. And I heard that in the same way they called John Barrymore the great profile, they said back then they were calling Errol Flynn the great shoe hater.

That I never heard. That I never heard. Yeah. Well, you know. And he, you know. I mean, he fought. He, I know, I think in the Spanish, the thing that was going on in Spain,

I think he fought against Franco and that whole group. And, you know, he was like, he was an odd bird. I mean, his book, My Wicked, Wicked Ways, I mean, I'm just taking it from his novel. Not novel, but his autobiography, which he wrote. And so, you know, until proven different, I'd like to think, well, he told his story. His daughter backed it up. I'd like to think of the gentler, kinder, anti-Semitic side of Earl. I just warn you, Joe, we've done 300 of these shows, and Gilbert loves to seize on which actors may or may have not been anti-Semitic.

It's a recurring theme, like chimpanzees and orangutans. This is news to me. Yeah, of course. And can you believe that movie was made? Go ahead, Bill. I'm just going to say, Frank and I were discussing recently that he just died recently. The Quaker Oats guy. Wilford Brimley. Oh, Wilford Brimley.

He was an anti-Semite. Supposedly anti-Semite. That's what they say. No, no. I just think he looked like the kind of guy that would play one. He's what he is. You know what's amazing? That's your favorite movie, The Adventures of Robin Hood.

Yeah. 1938, and we just lost Olivia de Havilland in 2020. Yes, I know, I know. Which is incredible. No, no, I love that movie. That movie is a classic. I don't know if Olivia de Havilland hated the Jews. Only you, Gil.

You're the only one she hated. No, she might have hated Flynn. I don't know. I know she didn't get along with Betty Davis. I know she hated Flynn. Right have hated flint i don't know i know he didn't get along with betty davis i know she hated flint so right right right yeah oh and you worked with another name that popped up on this podcast a number of times and that's rod steiger yes i did i got to work with rod and i oh i yeah he he uh i had a tremendous respect for him as an actor. I mean, just from the pawnbroker to in the heat of the night. I mean, to me, he was a consummate character man.

So the opportunity, I mean, the movie I did with him was, I mean, it was him, kind of an odd movie because it was him, myself, Boom Boom Mancini, the boxer. What's the body and soul remake? Yeah, it was kind of. The Garfield picture? By title, in title only really it was a whole different script but actually a pretty interesting kind of fun script

but I swear part of the reason was I knew Ray Mancini, great guy and I wanted to just kind of it would be fun to do, we shot it in Reno but the opportunity to work with Steiger was an attraction in itself because Because yeah, I just think he was one of our great American actors.

Without question. The kid from Cicero, Illinois grows up and works with all of these screen icons. You must have had many pinch yourself moments over the years. I still do. You know what I mean? Here I am, I'm in a Godfather picture. I'm sharing the screen with Rod Steiger and Warren

Beatty. No, no, no. Robert Redford. And Robert Redford and all of them. And Don Amici. Yeah. No, no. I've been very blessed. I mean, it's like, you know, it's one of those things that, in fact, there was a moment when I was shooting Godfather 3. I remember my first scene. I was getting ready to, they were about to say

action. And it was one of those moments that occur to you when you start to look around and you say to yourself, which I did, I thought, oh my God, Francis Coppola is about to say action to me on the movie of The Godfather. And I'm about to address Al Pacino with a line. And it all started to like swim in my head. And in a way, it made me a bit nervous and then instantly that nervousness turned into well wait a minute i've been going after this thing since i've been in high school my first audition for you know west side story as a high school student and this is the path i'm on so somebody thinks i should be here so god damn it i'm gonna do it i'm here you're here take it or

leave it i'm here let's go or leave it. I'm here. Let's go. Incredible. It's almost like I equated to baseball. You start in the little league, you go to pony league, and you go into the Legion ball, and you go into the minors, and then next thing you know, you're in Yankee Stadium or whatever, about to bat.

In some ways, you're thrilled and surprised, but the other way you should say to yourself, no, you know what? This is what I was pointing towards. So, accept it, embrace it, and be grateful that you got a shot and that you're able to hopefully deliver the goods. I say to all of you, I have been treated this day with no respect. I've earned you all money. I've made you rich. And I asked for little. Good. You will not give.

I'll take. As for Don Corleone, well, he makes it very clear to me today that he is my enemy. You must choose between us. You're humble, too, and I've seen interviews with you where you say that, you know, if Mamet had not been in Chicago, if he had been from, you know, if he'd been an Iowa playwright and you hadn't met him and a path not taken. Who's to say?

The way things fell into place for you. You're a big believer in that kind of luck. No, there is a certain element of that. you know at the end of the day if you've got what it takes and you keep putting it out there you keep putting it out there you hopefully something opens up i mean no matter what your line of work is if you're the best car if you're a great carpenter and you build a guy great bookcase that guy's going to say man you you're you're the best i love you i'm going to tell everybody i know you're great but but the the stars do have to help align let's face it in my case the thing would matter is a big it'd be like shakespeare in his time

maybe had a guy down the street named freddie who he went to and said hey freddie i brought this thing called hammer i want you to play the guy oh yeah sure bill be glad you know the luck of the draw of course and and but you once said your theory about luck to helen hayes that's right that's right that was kind of why i was going to think about keep putting it out there because they asked helen hayes isn't luck a major part of success and then she said no she says it is a part it's an element but she says at the of the day, you can't hide talent under a bush. So in other words, as long as you have that talent and you keep putting it out there, eventually somebody should and will recognize it.

Because it's, but the trick is you got to keep just keep putting it out there. You got to be in the game. Some people, they think it in their head and they think all i got to do is sit by the phone and you know somebody's going to call me and give me that break you know you you got to connect the dots whatever it may be i mean i i it's like when i won the tony award in 1984 i had been working professionally since 1969 my first thing i did was to play hair with the woman i married my wife that's what her and i got together but so i've been working professionally for 15 years doing bit parts here this that bit i win the tony award at the at the press interviews me after the at the after party and one guy says what's it like to win a tony i said you know

what it's like it's like winning the lottery but i've been buying tickets for 15 years you know in a making the analogy of that for 15 years i've been trying in the games and been doing working in community theater this that you know regional theater doing plays doing whatever anything industrial films, you know. And sometimes it works out. And in this case, it did. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. That's the sound of fried chicken with a spicy history. Thornton Prince was a ladies' man. To get revenge, his girlfriend

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A lot of those actors you came up with, too. Gilbert and I love character actors. We booked a bunch of them on this show. People like Jack Wallace, J.J. Johnston, J.T. Walsh, Robert Prosky. actors we booked a bunch of them on this show people like uh jack wallace jj johnston uh jt walsh robert prosky a lot of these people that what i called it before the mammoth stock company right right a lot of the we just lost jack wallace no i know i know he was by the way and people should seek them out um uh mike nussbaum is another one. And one I worked with, we had on this show and we became friends, was James Caron. He has a character actor.

Yeah, I love Caron. Yeah, he was on that show, the one I mentioned about the Supreme Court with Charlie Dern. He was one of the justices on that show. And James was a terrific guy. Yeah, wonderful actor and like you said just there's a whole litany of obviously great character actors throughout history and i've always been uh you know great admirers of them you know myself we talk about them on this show you know the ward bonds the the sure you know the wall the walter brennan's the uh sure you know martin balsam

martin balsam. Martin Balsam. One of my favorites, as you may remember, was John Davis Chandler. Of course. He played Mad Dog Cole. Yep. And I was lucky enough that he actually is in the movie Alice. He plays this little bit part of, I think, a pharmacist or something in one scene. I was just so thrilled.

John Davis Chandler. And he actually sent me a poster. Before he died, he sent me this big poster from Mad Dog Cole that he signed. He was just a great character. It's nice, too, that Mamet is loyal to these people and used them over and over and over again. The people who he started out with. Oh, yeah. And a lot of those people that were in the original glenn gary glenn ross yeah i think we use you know i think a lot of your better directors

tend to do that anyway i mean you know coppola will use it scorsese they'll use a you know people that they they they're familiar with that they know you know give them what they want and that they're comfortable with and it makes sense i did it when i shot the movie light bulb you know there was no there was no accident that I had Peter Falk in the movie, that I had Charlie Durning in the movie, that I had George Wendt in the movie, that I had Jack Wallace, J.J. Johnson. And the great Robert Forster.

Robert Forster, Dennis Leary. Another wonderful. These were all friends of mine. And so I was just thrilled to have them in the cast. I always forget his name, who we had on the show who would always work with I'm forgetting everything

who worked with the king of the B movies Dick Miller oh yeah Roger Corman I did one Roger Corman movie only because I wanted to know what the experience was like. Wow.

They said, this is his, I think it was like his 500th movie or something. So it was going to be like something special. And I said, you know what? And Steiger was in that too. And I think Steiger, myself, Joanna Pakula, who else was in that movie? Martin Sheen. And it was called Captain Nuke and the Bomber Boys. I saw it on your IMDb page. I didn't know what that was. And it was like one of those movies

that when they offered it to me, I said, I'm in. I don't even need to read their script. I just want to know what it's like to be in. I want to be able to say, yeah, it was an erotic woman, especially with a title like that. Wow. And it was a lot of fun and we've had a bunch of great actors here like bruce dern and griffin dunn and and uh bob balaban we love oh yeah work workmanlike actors absolutely no i know them all and they're all all those are those are my guys those are my we have a great affection for and you're working doing a production about someone who I think is more modern now than ever. And that's with the PC culture. And that's Lenny Bruce.

Yeah, I was very fortunate that my dear friend Ronnie Marmo, who wrote this piece, he's obsessed with Lenny Bruce and spent many, many years working on it and developing it and studying him and, and really did his homework. He came up with, I thought, a wonderful script and came to me and asked if I would direct it. And I, and it's not just the, it's not his act. I mean, it's, there's maybe 20% of the show is his act, but the other 80% is his life. And in that hour and 20 minutes of the show, I think he does an incredible portrayal. And Lenny's daughter is our biggest fan, Kitty. And Kitty Bruce. And so we've had an incredible run in L.A. We had almost a year run in L.A.

We had a great run off-Broadway in New York, off-off-Broadway. And then we were in the middle of a tremendously successful run in Chicago when the pandemic hit. So God willing, when all this settles itself out and sorts itself out, we hopefully will reopen it in Chicago. But yeah, I mean, I think Ronnie does a tremendous job and I'm very proud of him and I'm proud of the piece and I feel very good about it. Will it resume?

I know it was running in New York and it. Will it resume? I know it was running in New York and L.A. Will it resume after FN? I think there's a good chance because, first of all, it's a one-man show, which helps. And second of all, we can do it in a nightclub-type setting. We've done it. We've done it in a regular kind of theater. We never would do it in a huge theater anyway.

But we've done it with kind of arena singing. But we've also done it in New York. We did it at one of the theaters. we've also done it in New York. We did it at one of the theaters. We played two different theaters in New York. We did it in one where we set up a cocktail table, spaced them out, and it was tremendous. It would almost be as if Lenny Bruce was there at this nightclub telling his story

and doing parts of his act. So I think that's what we'll do when we reopen in Chicago. We'll start it out in kind of a way that, you know, be adhering to all we would need to do to be able to open up a play. But as you can imagine, plays are probably going to be one of the last things to go full steam ahead. He's experiencing, with this and Mrs. Maisel, Lenny Bruce is experiencing a career renaissance.

Yeah, exactly right. No, it deservedly so. And especially since now, everything's so politically correct. He's like, yeah, I know. Yeah, in a way, exactly right. I mean, I think that's helped our show because we address that. I mean, at the very end of the play, we do a whole montage of people's voices and bits and stuff that basically owed their careers to people like Lenny Bruce.

And, you know, you start to think, where are we going today? You know, it's almost like things are tougher today in some respects than they were in the 60s. And it's a little odd. It's a little strange. I want to ask you about something that's important in your life, Joe, and that's music.

Because we mentioned in the beginning, and I hope this is true, that you were briefly, we know about the Apocryphals, the band that you were in, that led to the missing links, that led to you being friends with Chicago, the members of Chicago, your whole life. Was that Beatles story true about you being a part of a Beatles tribute band? Well, we looked like that, kind of. I think if you looked at some of the early photos of the band, we weren't a Beatles tribute.

But there is, where I think there could be confusion is, he's like a distant relative of mine. And I think it's, I'm trying to think what his first name is, but it's Montaigne, his last name. And he is in a very successful Beatles tribute band, but it's not Joe. Oh, yeah. I know who you're talking about. Yeah, so maybe people are confusing that. But our band, at one time, if you look at some of our press photos from that era, you know, everybody did back then.

This is the mid-'60s. You know, we had the suits, we had the hair that looked like that. So we were kind of more in that direction. There was no band called The Weasels wearing beetle wigs? Yes, that's how we started. Okay, I was hoping we weren't bullshitting you. No, no, no, no. We did it as a gag.

I was in an English class in high school, and the assignment was do something about English culture. And me and a couple of the guys in the class said, well, we know about English culture, but the Beatles were the hottest thing going at the time. We're all kind of interested in playing music. So we said, why don't we call ourselves the Weasels? We'll learn a couple songs and say, this is a, we think of the contribution of English culture as the rock and roll that's happening right now. So we did it as a gag, but it was, we did it for an assembly at the high school and the people thought it was going to be a joke, but apparently they went crazy for it. We realized, Hey, we can actually make a buck doing this. So we played as the weasels for

a while. In fact, even in my high school yearbook, it lists Weasels 3 and 4. Like, is it like, you know, how people put track and chess club? I got Weasels 3 and 4. Hilarious. And then we decided we were going to change the name to something a little more, you know, so, yeah, we would be the Apocryphals, as if that was any better. But we did well. We played for about five years, and there was a time I actually thought maybe that's what I would kind of do for a career uh but uh my my life took a different path is that is that you singing beyond the sea

and the opening of lake boat uh no no that's okay that's uh Bobby Caldwell who was a dear friend of mine I wanted you no I wish it would have been me. And you were in the Rat Pack movie. Yes. Dean Martin. Yes. Yeah, that was a real thrill because I idolized him. I idolized those guys. I was very afraid about taking on that role just for that reason because I thought, how do you play Dean Martin?

But I really did a lot of research on it. I interviewed a lot of people, read up on it, looked at a lot of footage. interviewed a lot of people, read up on it, looked at a lot of footage. The voice, the voice that came up with my key to his voice was, I don't know if you can relate to this, but in my childhood, there was the sugar crisp commercials. They had the sugar bear. Oh yeah. And the sugar bear talk like this. Okay. Oh, sugar bear. And I started to think that the Sugar Bears are not like Dean Martin.

So that's where I got the voice to do Dean. I would say, ooh, all these people get in my room. I would think to myself that it's the Sugar Bear talking instead of Dean Martin. And that helped me kind of get into that aspect of the character. But even down to the worry where the cops on his coat and the way he smoked his cigarette. that the cops on his coat and waist smoked a cigarette. And so ultimately I became dear friends with his daughter, Dina, because of it, which was really great.

I mean, I was so happy that they embraced my portrayal of their dad. And I loved doing that role. I loved doing that movie. And it was a real, real thrill for me. And I remember that commercial because the jingle was, can't get enough of that sugar bear. That's right. It was a sort of a Bing Crosby thing.

Well, sugar bear. You're right. But Dean Martin himself, because I did a lot of research on him, and I remember in one, certainly one of the biographies about him, he mentions that. He said, we all want something like Bing Crosby. That was the thing. I mean, Crosby was like the gold standard of that time if you were trying to get radio play, trying to get your voice on the air.

So they all kind of did that Crosby thing a little bit and then, of course, found their own voices later. I got a question for you from a fan. Mike Herman said, if you guys discuss Bleacher Bums. By the way, you can see the PBS production of Bleacher Bums with you in it and dennis franz is on youtube oh great okay people can see it ask joe to tell the story of where he was when the cubs finally won the series oh yeah well my wife uh started a restaurant in burbank california over 16 years ago called taste chicago so it's a chicago themed restaurant and uh she's a great cook and you know So it was a Chicago-themed restaurant.

And she's a great cook. And so it was a wonderful restaurant because it gave us a chance for people from Chicago to go and get the kind of foods that they loved. Jim Belushi would come almost every week when he was doing his show and order like $2,000 worth of Italian beefs for the company in there and stuff like that. But we served all the typical, you know, Chicago dishes, deep dish pizza, the hot dogs, Chicago dogs and all that. But as it turned out, the year the Cubs did win the World Series,

the restaurant was still open. We just closed it about a year ago, but the restaurant was still open. And the Cubs invited me to actually go to Cleveland to be there for game seven. But I thought, you know what? We've been watching this whole season at the restaurant with all the fans. I want to be there win or lose. Let's all watch it together here in Burbank. And so there I was with hundreds and hundreds of people in the restaurant.

And we had it on the TV. And what kind of was interesting is it got so nerve-wracking near the end, especially when Cleveland tied it up near the end, I couldn't stand to be in the restaurant with all the people because I thought if they lose, I'm going to kill myself. It's going to be terrible. It's going to be the worst place to be, all hundreds of us in this room, just like the worst possible thing.

So I went into the news truck in the parking lot because the Fox news truck who were broadcasting the game were in the parking lot you know because they wanted to be there if the Cubs win or lose they wanted to you know photograph film us all being there so I go in the news truck I said guys can I watch the game on your little monitor just me because I can't stand being with everybody in case they lose guys said great there was like two Dodger fans running the truck. They didn't care. So I watched the last inning on this little black and white screen in the truck. So now the last out is made. The Cubs win. Now I start screaming and yelling and screaming in the truck.

And I look back at the restaurant and it's dead. The restaurant is quiet. And for that second, I thought, oh, my God, it's been a dream. It didn't even happen. This is all a dream. The Cubs did not win the World Series. I'm in a nightmare. And then as I'm looking at the restaurant, the restaurant erupts.

And things are flying out the window and people are screaming. And the guy in the truck looks at me and goes, oh, yeah, we're on a 15-second delay. You got to see the Cubs win 15 seconds before anybody else in the country. I said, well, how cool was that? So I got to see the Cubs win the World Series 15 seconds before anybody else because at least anybody was watching it on television. You waited. Good things come to those who wait, Joe.

You suffered through 1969, 84, 89. Oh, yeah, like I said. All those heartbreaks. Well, they interviewed me that year, you know, and my mother, who was 100 at the time, they interviewed me. They said, so what do you think about the Cubs winning the World Series? I said, look, my mother was born in 1915. The Cubs were on a losing streak for eight years when she was born. I said, let's get it done, you know.

And thank God they did get it done you know and thank god they did get it done before she passed away at 101 so it all it all fell into place and you became friends with ben kingsley yeah ben kingsley we did bugsy together and then we did searching for bobby fisher together and uh i'll tell you one funny thing that happened with the band chicago we were playing uh we're doing searching for Bobby Fisher in Toronto and the band Chicago contacts me and they says, Hey, we're going to be in Toronto.

We heard you're going to be, you're there making a movie. You want to come to the concert? I said, absolutely. He said, we're playing with the missing links. I said,

Oh, or not the missing links. They were, they were missing. We're playing with the, um, uh, the moody blues.

And, and, uh, I said, Oh, great. I says, can I bring a couple of guestsody Blues. And I said, oh, great. I said, can I bring a couple of guests from the movie? I said, I was going to bring Joan Allen and Ben Kingsley, but I didn't tell them that. I said, I'll bring a couple of people from the movie.

They said, great. And so what I told Ben, he was like, oh, wonderful, the Moody Blues. I love the Moody Blues. That's from my childhood. So we're waiting. So we're standing in the lobby of the hotel. And Ben says to me, well, is a car coming to pick us up? I said, well, no, not quite.

And then, of course, the Chicago band bus pulls up in front of the hotel with the Chicago logo on the side. So Ben's eyes widened, like, oh, my God, we're going in the band bus. So the door is open. We get up in the bus. And now the guys in chicago they're like they're guys from chicago they're like street guys like myself in the sense of they see me they go joe what's up man then i go before they can say anything further i say oh by the way here's my my cast mate from the movie ben kingsley and joe now and now instantly they all go like all

of a sudden like they just met the king of england You know, they're like, oh, hello, oh, Mr. Kingsley, please come in. So now we're all on the bus. Now we're on our way to the site of the concert. And they're being very polite. This, that, this, that. And I can tell that they're like in their best behavior and it's making me laugh. But finally, in the conversation, I think they're able to pick up that Ben is just like, you know, Ben's Ben. Ben's okay. You know, Ben's not, you know, not going to be like a stuffy guy.

So finally, Johnny Pankow, the trombone player for the band, finally, he can't stand it anymore. He finally just goes, I can't believe it. We got fucking Gandhi on the bus. And Ben laughed harder than anybody. And so that was great.

Hilarious. Tell Panko and Lamb we'd love to have them on this podcast. Oh, I will. No, I'll pass it on. We've had Jimmy Webb here, Tommy James, Kenny Loggins. No, you should have. Oh, yeah, you should definitely have Chicago. Your local product, Richard Marks. And this is something I tell everybody after we interview Jimmy Webb.

His line, someone left a cake out in the rain, was literally he was in the park and he saw a piece of cake on a park bench and it was raining. So there was no poetry or symbolism at all. park and he saw a piece of cake on a park bench and it was raining. No poetry or symbolism at all. Exactly. Fuck you, Jimmy. Joe, you can't pick one because it's like a favorite child, but a favorite

Chicago song. Oh, God. it is really hard. I can't. You've been with these guys a lifetime. Yeah, I don't think I can. You know what I mean? I'm going through a phase. I really love Harry Truman lately.

Really? Okay. Yeah, that's a little more of the obscure side, but I mean, they're all just so great. Yeah, it would just have to be the you know i think of them as just their their whole catalog is just soundtrack so much of my life i i just got a flashback when i was a kid uh my father was painting the apartment and he was on a ladder and and he had the radio on and in the background it was you know saturday in the park right and and that's a favorite yeah that always makes me think of my

father yeah oh great well see that's that's great that gives you a memory with the band as well that music has made so many people happy for so many generations. Oh, yeah. You know, I hope those guys know that in their hearts. Oh, they do. How many people they've moved. They do. You hear beginnings, or you hear 25 or 64, and you're transported. Oh, yeah. Because we're all of similar ages.

That's right. And we're transported to those great memories. Well, they're still together. They're still playing, so they still love doing it. Yep. We got to thank a couple of people. Your producing partner, Dan Ryan, who set this all up. Am I saying his name right?

Yep, perfect. And Andrew Barfren, Andrew Buss, a listener who helped us with this. You got a film out, Rolling Thunder? Yeah, and the band Chicago's in that as well. Oh. It's quite an eclectic cast. Yeah, it's kind of a fun, it's a movie about making a movie. It's kind of like a, because it's directed by, written and directed by one of the, the nephew of one of the guys in Chicago, Lou Pardini.

And it's a, it's kind of a spoof kind of film. It's a lot of fun. You know, it's one of those things that we shot it in real time. It was kind of like one of those deals. But a lot of fun. And the band Chicago was in the movie. And the Lenny Bruce show is going to come back when lockdown lifts. Yeah, I think so.

I think Chicago will resume where we left off in Chicago, and then we'll see where we go from there. Will you keep directing, Joe? And would you do another series? I enjoyed it. I think I would. I directed nine episodes of Criminal Minds. I enjoyed doing that. I enjoyed doing a of Criminal Minds. I enjoyed doing that.

I enjoyed doing a series because I enjoyed the lifestyle of being home, going home at night and being in one place. I've been in this business a long time, done a lot of travel. And I still like to do that, but I like to do it more on my own terms. And so if the right, you know, I've got a pilot I did for Amazon. I got picked up. I'm waiting to hear when we're going to go with that. It has to do with people on the autism spectrum which i can relate to because my

oldest daughter is such and so i'm looking forward to that um so whatever my life's good i can't complain tomorrow's my wife's birthday so that's all good too happy birthday arlene there you go perfect that's great that's great and now i'm going to bring it full circle your your uh your other daughter gia is an actress right and she has something in common with gilbert they both co-starred in a movie with matthew modine no kidding okay yes and and gilbert wasn't that yes that another monkey wasn't that a monkey movie and it was called funky oh no it's called yeah funky monkey monkey and no, it was called. Yeah. Funky Monkey. Monkey.

And one of the reviews was a one line review. It said Matthew Modine once starred in a Stanley Kubrick film. There you go. Well, that was being very kind, I guess. That was, you know, critics are usually more vicious than that. Joe, your wife and your family want you to go. One last thing. Tell us about your years-long friendship with a man who just keeps going,

just keeps on keeping on, and that is the unsinkable Tony Bennett. Ah, yes. God, I love him to death. I just saw him at a concert not too long ago, less than a year ago. I'll say this. I've always idolized him, became very dear friends. And when I won my Tony Award, he had come and seen the play. I gave him my house seats, and he came and saw the play.

And I took a picture with him up in my dressing room, Gary Glenn Ross, back in 1984. And so I've got my arm around him in the photo. And then when I won the Tony Award some months later during that run, as you can imagine, many people sent me congratulations, telegrams, you know, email. No, it was before emails. This was like people, I'm answering machine stuff. So what I did is I sent people a personal thank you and I sent a thank you card. And on the front of the thank you card, you pulled it out of the envelope and said, thank you so much for your kind words about my award.

I thought you would appreciate a picture of me with my Tony. Now, of course, everybody expected to open up the card and see me holding the statue. And, of course, they opened up the card, and I got my arm around Tony Bennett. And that was my homage to, to my dear friend. And I think in the movie queen, queen's lodge too. I think I do a little bit where I pretend then I do an homage to him and one little scene in the movie,

but yeah, he's, he's a, he's a, he's a great talent. And I think Johnny Mathis is another one. I, he,

I see it on your Twitter feed. All your favorites are on your Twitter. I, in the criminal minds of the last season, my character gets married and I got Johnny Mathis is another one. Oh, yeah, I see it on your Twitter feed. All your favorites are on your Twitter feed. In the Criminal Minds, in the last season, my character gets married, and I got Johnny Mathis to be my best man on the episode. So I was able to bring him in on that. And I got to know Sinatra. So, yeah.

And Ringo is a friend. And Ringo, got to know Ringo, Joe Walsh. I had Joe Walsh in an episode of Criminal Minds. Yeah, it's just... I'm having a pretty good life. No complaints. I believe Joe Walsh is a Gilbert fan. I'm sure he is. Who isn't? Bill Withers.

Another one. Bill Withers. Bill Withers. We just lost him. Another one. Another giant. Another great fan. We just had... Since you're such a music guy, we just had two great Motown songwriters. We just had the Holland Brothers here from Holland Dozier Holland. Oh, my God. They were just on the show last week. Some of the greatest songs ever written, absolutely. Some of the greatest songs ever written, for sure.

Joe, if you come back and do this again, and we'd love to have you back, we'll just talk about old movies and music and the first records you ever bought. That'd be great. That'd be great. My pleasure. We appreciate you taking the time to do this, and we thank Dan again, and we thank Andrew again. This was a kick. No, you're welcome.

And we love to talk about orangutans. Okay, yeah. With movie stars. Yeah, yeah. No, I think I'm done with them. That's it. I did mine. Gilbert did his. I did mine gilbert did his i did

mine we're done we're done thank you joe okay boys and ladies hi this is gilbert godfrey and this has been gilbert godfrey's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host frank santo padre and Frank Santopadre and we've been talking to a man who idolizes that no could you hater Eric Flint the great Joe Montano Chicago Chicago

Joe thanks you're a sport thank you Joe Chicago Chicago Chicago. Joe, thanks. You're a sport. My pleasure. Thank you, Joe. Chicago. Chicago. I'll show you around. Bet your bottom dollar you lose the blues in Chicago. Chicago. Chicago.

The town that Marty F Fay could not shut down On State Street, that great street I just want to say They do things that they don't do on Broadway Say, they have the time, the time of their life. I saw a man, he danced with his wife in Chicago hometown. They have the time, the time of their life I saw a man, he danced with his wife in Chicago In Chicago

In Chicago