Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Joel Grey Encore

Episode Date: February 21, 2022

Gilbert and Frank celebrate the 50th anniversary of Bob Fosse's 1972 masterwork "Cabaret" with this encore presentation from 2019 featuring Oscar and Tony-winning actor-singer Joel Grey. In this episode, Joel has a little fun at the co-hosts' expense while reminiscing about James Garner, Jack Gilford, Buck Henry and Lana Turner and promoting his Yiddish language version of "Fiddler on the Roof." Also: Rita Hayworth lights up the screen, Pat McCormick plays Grover Cleveland (!), Gilbert pulls out his George Jessel impression and Joel shares a stage with the great Eddie Cantor. PLUS: "Man on a Swing"! Hal Prince saves the day! The genius of Will Jordan! And Joel remembers his dad, the legendary Mickey Katz! Ship more in less time with ShipStation. Just go to ShipStation.com, click on the microphone at the top of the page, and type in GILBERT to get a 60-day free trial. That’s 2 months FREE of no-hassle, stress-free shipping.   Visit athleticgreens.com/GILBERT for a FREE 1 year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase. Take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So by now, obviously, you've clearly realized that we're taking a short break and running an encore episode or best of GGACP this week. Gil and I have been going pretty much nonstop since the new year began. And we've also gotten busy. So call this a midwinter or President's Day break if you like. And we're running an episode from back in 2019 to honor the 50th anniversary of a beloved and very important movie, and that's Bob Fosse's 1972 masterpiece Cabaret, which was released in February of 1972. Fifty years ago now, we got a chance to sit down with actor and dancer Joel Grey,

who won an Oscar that year for his performance as the emcee. As everybody knows, he'd already won the Tony a few years earlier. And this episode is the result. We asked Joel a lot about Cabaret and Fosse, but also about many other things, including, of course, his dad, who was the musician and comedian Mickey Katz, who made popular novelty records in the 40s and the 50s and later. As memory serves, I think Gil even sings a few bars of one or two of Mickey's hits in this episode. We also talked about the all-Yiddish version of Fiddler on the Roof, which Joel directed a few years ago, back when this episode was first up. As I said,

we covered quite a bit. Now, some people who heard this episode at the time thought Joel was being difficult with us or a bit obstructionist. But what really happened, and I explained this later on Facebook, or I attempted to anyway, is that he was putting us on and trying to do that kind of Charles Grodin talk show shtick thing where he pretends to be uncooperative, which Grodin used to do and was a master at. It was really a bit that amused Gilbert and I, but the audience couldn't really get a sense of what was going on without visuals because Joel was making funny faces and he was winking and he was even blushing at himself at his own antics. He was kind of taking the piss out of us, I guess, as the Brits say. But we knew he had fun and a good time. He was very grateful at the end. He hugged both of us

at the end of the recording. As I say, it was his little gagger put on and it didn't work quite as well in audio-only format. But we got the joke. Give it another listen. And still, we thought this was a strong episode with a lot of good history. And above all else, we wanted to honor that wonderful, wonderful movie. So we thought it was a good time to put this up. So we'll see you next week with a brand-new episode.

And as always, stay safe, stay healthy. And thanks to all all especially our generous patreon supporters we love you guys and until next time enjoy our fun and rather adventurous meeting with the legendary joel gray And we've got to put you on the spot one more time if you do like an I.D. for us. Oh, like the old radio station I.D.s. You know, this is John Astin. Maybe.

Capital I.D. Hello, this is John Astin, and you are listening to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal, creepy, kooky, mysterious, spooky, altogether ooky podcast. Fantastic. Perfect. Perfect. Couldn't ask for better. Thank you.

It was worth the wait. For me. We're going to pay a call on the Addams Family. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and we're once again recording at... You can take it again. Yeah. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. That was better.

He's a director after all. And I'm once again with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and our engineer, Frank Furtarosa. Our guest this week is a Tony and Oscar winning actor, singer, dancer, director, producer, and photographer, and genuine Broadway legend. And we couldn't be more excited to have him sitting here. As an actor, you've seen him in television shows such as Night Gallery, Brooklyn Bridge, Star Trek, Voyager, Brothers and Sisters, Oz, Nurse Jackie, and House, and on the big screen in films like Buffalo Bill and the Indians, The 7% Solution, Remo Williams, The Adventure Begins, The Player, The Music of Chance, and Dancer in the Dark, and of course in his Academy Award winning role of the emcee in the iconic musical Cabaret. He's also starred in long-running Broadway and off-Broadway shows like Cabaret, George M., The Normal Heart, Chicago, Anything Goes and Wicked.

Winning a Tony, two Drama Desk Awards, and a Grammy Hall of Fame Award in the process. His latest passion is directing a Yiddish-language version of Fiddler on the Roof, currently running at the Museum of Jewish Heritage and moving to Off-Broadway in February 2019. Playbill Magazine called this version the most authentic production of Fiddler you will ever see. And his terrific His terrific and revealing 2016 memoir, Master of Ceremon Cats, the namesake of actor Joel McRae, and a man who once shared the screen with Eddie Cantor, the multi talented Joel Gray.

If you knew Susie like I know Susie Oh, oh. You wanted me to do Eddie Cantor, right? Did I misunderstand? Did I misunderstand? I was trying to get you to sing Cabaret. Okay. Okay.

I can't. No? Because I you to sing cabaret. Okay. Okay. I can't. No? Because I didn't sing that song in the movie or on stage. Did you know that? No. Oh, he means the song you sang at the Y when Gay Talese was interviewing you. Yes, yes. Welcome and bienvenue.

Welcome. Is that the one? Yes. That's thevenue. Welcome. Is that the one? That's the one. Yes. Oh, that's just what I wanted. Well, we got that straight. And a very strange incident happened before we got on the air. And that's we were talking about.

You say you don't know that much Yiddish. I don't speak Yiddish yeah so I was saying to you I know one expression in Yiddish and without saying it you said it it was scary I know it was weird I thought it was good too yeah it's going to help you. You'll live like cupping works on a dead person. Cupping. How did you know? That joke is, by the way, is in the show. Is in Fiddler?

Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, we both have to come see it. But how on earth did you know? Did you predict the one Yiddish phrase that Gilbert knew? In Man on a Swing. Right. I was, you know.

Clairvoyant. Right. And some of it stuck. Good movie. Now, can you tell a story, Mickey Catch, your father, how he was discovered? How my father was discovered? Yes. I think he's...

By Spike Jonze, you mean. Okay. He was... My father was a musician in Cleveland. Yes. And Spike Jonze was traveling through the country, touring. And my father was a wonderful clarinetist and a saxophone player. And he also did comedy bits.

He was funny. He just was funny. And he also did this sound. These are called glugs. Very good. And if you know Spike Jonze, Cocktails for Two. Sure. Yes.

He does that sound. Yeah. For people that don't know Spike Jonze, he would do these songs and there would be gunshots and car horns and everything. He was a giant star. horns and everything. He was a giant star. Now, your father was, I think, just backstage fooling around, doing some song. Yes, exactly. In a recording session of Spike Jonze.

And the head of RCA Victor was in the booth, and he heard my father singing this thing. My dad didn't know that the microphone was open. And he was playing, he was singing. I had this idea for, he always wrote parodies. And they thought it was funny. They didn't understand Yiddish. They were not Jewish. And they put him on RCA Victor Records. And that was the beginning of his career as a

dialectician and a comedian. And that's how the public knew him, from those records. What was Mickey Katz and his crazy kittens? Because Gilbert and I love that. And Betty Hutton was part of that?

He toured with Betty Hutton. You know, with the troops. Right. In Europe. Right. He was the band leader. Selling war bonds after shows. Yeah.

At one point, yeah. So when your father started performing around with his songs, was he in like, was it vaudeville, the Yiddish theater? No, there was no Yiddish theater for him because he was a musician. Yeah. And so he was sort of in the vaudeville world. Okay. The Palace Theater in Cleveland.

Big names play the Palace Theater. Very. Burl, Sophie Tucker. Oh, yeah. And I used to sit in the pit and watch. Oh, my. And I think that's where I kind of got a bug. And you

said, I think it was that your mother took you to the theater. Yes. She took you to you would take you to the theater yes and yeah she took me to see a proper american play at the cleveland playhouse where they had no idea what a jew was No, they didn't. It was very, very high class and, you know, major goyish. And I sat down there and I watched these children and this children's group of actors putting on a show. And I just knew in that moment, I said to my mom, I want to do that.

I want to do that. I want to do that. At the age of eight? Nine. Nine. It was a little later. Wow. Wow. Now, how did your parents react?

Oh, good. Yeah. I mean, my mother, she wanted to be a star, you know, an actress, but she had no talent for that. She became a painter. She became a painter and a great cook. She was terrific, but she somehow had this idea that she was going to be a movie star because everybody was crazy about

the movies then. It was the beginning of, you know, Hollywood stuff. Was Peter Lorre one of your favorites? I found that in the research. He was. I was a great fan of him, of his acting.

I thought he was a great character actor. Have you heard Gilbert's Peter Lorre, Joel? I'm ready. I'm closing my eyes. It's a treat. Okay. No, it's you who handled it. You and your stupid attempt to buy it.

Kevin found out how valuable it was. No wonder we had such an easy time getting it. You blundering fathead. Well, I didn't know I was going to be surprised like this. I wish our listeners could see the look on Joel's face. He was delighted by that. Pretty good, huh? Excellent.

Yeah, it's the best Peter Lorre ever done. Who else do you do? He does Sydney Green Street. Shh, I'm closing my eyes. Here we go. Let's have it. You are a character, sir. I like talking to a man who likes to talk.

Brilliant. No, that is brilliant. Yes, he is. They're both brilliant. Thank you. I can leave now. He's a great mimic. He's a great mimic. He's a great mimic.

We've done 240 of these, Joel, and you wouldn't believe. Do you remember the character actor, John MacGyver? I do. Yeah. Listen to this. Close your eyes. All day, everything must be done according to schedule. We will have no slackers in this company.

I have run a tight ship. Everything must be done according to my orders. I like that too. You don't have to say anything. I just do i'll put on the show for you i did like it he's a great mimic yeah we'll pull some other ones out later on in the show before we jump off your dad i do want to we mentioned this before we turn the mics on i do want to direct people to youtube to see your daughter jennifer do a great tribute to your dad on the Conan show where she sings Duvid Crockett.

And she really gets into it. It was a little dance step. Oh, yeah. She's really. That's my daughter. That's my kid. Three generations. And you were saying that acting saved your life.

Well, yes. Yes, it did, because I knew that I had a place and I needed a place. Even when I was nine years old, I was struggling to feel to fit in. And all of a sudden I was given a role and I was able to tell the truth of this character. And people noticed it and said, oh, you're good. And what kid doesn't want to hear that? At the age of nine. Uh-huh.

You joined the Curtain Pullers, the Cleveland Playhouse. And then I was in the adult. And then the adult version. Yeah. Yeah. Now, this is strange because when I saw your performance in Cabaret, the way you looked and the way you played it. Can you imitate me?

Wait a minute. Hold on. Give him some time to work on it. I should think that would be right up your alley. You know, I never attempted it. Because I was born in Coney Island. And in Coney Island, they had that amusement park steeplechase that had that face that I think was George A. Yes, yes.

Joel is making a scary face. And it was that George A. Tilly. That was my handsomest face. And it was a scary. It was like Alfred E. Newman, but psychotic killer. Upside down. And I remember someone saying that that was because they believed that entertainment and having fun there was something scary and evil about it so that's why they made that scary face

and so when i saw you in cabaret it made me think of that because it's like it looks like those people at the Cabaret are in hell and you're the devil. It's very eerie. Thank you. It's an interesting interpretation. It's an interesting interpretation. Yeah, because you play it like very scary. A little bit of Dwight Frye. Yes. A little bit of, is it Emil Jannings in The Last Laugh?

It's almost got like Caligari. Were any of these things running through your head? Because you were such a movie buff. No. It's expressionistic. Well, all right. I was much more influenced by the art of the time of the Nazis. I see.

That's interesting. Well, tell us about how the MC came about. I know how Prince saw you and decided that you were the person to play this part. Yes. A part that you had, correct me if I'm wrong, that you had trouble understanding at first and getting into because he was such a... It wasn't written. There were no lines.

There was no character except the MC, the second-rate comedian, you know, master of ceremonies. And I had no scenes with anybody. It was five great songs. And I needed to find the man, the, you know, that bad guy. So you took some of the low comics, particularly that comic in St. Louis. Do I have this right?

Oh, boy. I thought he was the cheapest shot of an emcee that anybody could ever not want to see. So this guy that you saw on the road from your nightclub days, you retained this and you decided to infuse this character. Right. That's fascinating.

So this third grade comic became immortal. He never knew. Yeah. And you never said his name publicly I would assume. I'm sure he's gone. Yes, he is. By I would assume. I'm sure he's gone. Yes, he is.

By now. Yeah. I just saw an interview with you. No, I never told anybody. You never told anybody who it was? No. Interesting. And here's another song. And I don't think today's the day.

No. He might have heirs or relatives. Here's another song I once heard on the radio that killed me that your father sang. So I'm pushing you again. How much is that pickle in the window? Yeah. The one that's on top of the pail. Yeah.

Right. How much is that pickle in the window? Yes. I do hope that pickle's for sale. We say to our listeners that people can pick, can find these on YouTube. We have them both queued up.

We have Duvid Crockett, which Jennifer did so well on the Conan show, and Pickle in the Window queued up. They're on YouTube and well worth seeing. And your father was kind of

ahead of his time. I mean, Stan Freeberg, you know, there was no Alan Sherman. Nobody was doing parody. They all followed him. Yeah. Kind of a trailblazer in that genre.

Yeah. Certainly there was no Weird Al, but I think they respected him as a forerunner. Exactly. That's what I said, a forerunner. I feel like there should be alcohol involved in this interview. And when you walked in, you were wearing like a rabbi's shawl. Excuse me? Over your shoulders.

That's what that looked like. It did? Yes. That's called a talus. A talus? Gilbert, what kind of Jew are you? See, I'm a horrible Jew. A talus. And that was not a talus. A talus. Gilbert, what kind of Jew are you? See, I'm a horrible Jew. A talus.

And that was not a talus. Yeah. That was a very chic shawl. Bo Brummel, he's not, Joel. Maybe on you it just looked more Jewish. Well, maybe that's because of Fiddler. Yes. You know, Mickey Cat of Fiddler. Yes. You know, Mickey Cat, Fiddler, I'm sort of stuck.

Now, tell us about this, your production of Fiddler on the Roof. And who it's a tribute to. Well, I got a call from this gentleman that runs the National Theater, Yiddish Volksbiene, which means the stage, Yiddish stage. And he's a great, you know, a great figure in the Yiddish theater world. And he said, I'm doing, I've always wanted to do Fiddler on the Roof in Yiddish. And there was a production 50 years ago in Israel. And I've gotten the rights to do it. Would you like to direct it? And I said, that's a rather wild idea because I don't speak Yiddish but I know that play

very very well I have loved it from the first preview which I saw in Washington before it came to New York with Zero? yes

and I've seen every production ever since and I love that musical and I think it's a great score it's just everything good and I also loved Sholem Aleichem's stories and that's what this

Tevye and his daughters was taken from and made into Fiddler. And I woke up the next morning and I said to myself, I don't know how I'm going to do this. I don't know quite what to do, but I'm going to do it. And I decided that then and there. And it just came. We get these wonderful actors who did not speak Yiddish.

I heard you say three-quarters of the cast didn't speak any Yiddish. And so the obvious question, how does a man who doesn't speak Yiddish direct other actors to speak it? Oh, thank you so much. I knew what it was about, so I could tell the actors. I see. And we rehearsed it in English.

And then once they understood understood it in English, then they added the Yiddish language. And are you honoring your dad a little bit by doing this show? I sure hope so. Good. That's nice. That's nice. I know you don't speak it, but is it true that you learned a little bit from listening to his records? Not much. Not much. No, I mean, I know the jokes yeah the jokes right you do enough

and he taught you to respect the audience too your father i heard you say that yeah in an interview everything he there was he he was a musician, essentially. That's really what he adored, was playing the clarinet and playing with his musician friends. He just loved that. The fraternity of it. Yes. And if he played a gig, like a wedding or something,

if there was one person on the dance floor, he was still there. Wow. That's great. We had Gino Conforti on this show, by the way, who is notable because he was the, I believe he was the original Fiddler. He was?

Yeah. I knew him too. Yeah, good guy. Very sweet. Yeah, he's in LA, still around, did this show. Gilbert sang some Fiddler. What, you sang with Andrea Martin when she was here? Oh, I think Do You

Love Me. There you go. There you go. That's a show that's that he cares about. And I heard that when Gino Conforti was the Fiddler, Zero Mostel started, he would start yelling stuff

that was not in the script. And he started yelling, you know, get off the roof, you fucking kiddie. This is a Jew production. According to Gino. That's not my style. But what did you think of Zero Mostel? I thought he was a genius.

I loved him. But, if I were the director and he was fucking with my show like that, it would not be good. Oh.

Yeah. He colored outside the lines a lot, didn't he? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, and,

you know, threw the play away in a way. Although he was charming and wonderful, but, and then the rest of the actors were left often hanging and looking bad. Possibly

why he wasn't offered the film? And because he was difficult? No, I don't think that. Or because he was asking too much money or something like that. I don't have any. I know nothing about that history. I have to ask Norman Jewison when we have him on. Tell us. Here's a segue, a neat segue.

Jack Ilford from Zero to Jack Ilford, who you worked with in the original Cabaret production. He's somebody we love character actors as you do. We've talked about him on this show. He was a great friend and a wonderful actor. I never retired of watching him with great timing. Yeah. And sadly blacklisted. Yeah.

But truly a truly funny man. Yep. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling, winning. Which beats even the 27th best feeling, saying I do. Who wants this last parachute? I do.

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I don't think we've done 250 of these shows. I don't think we've ever interviewed anybody who knew Lottie Lenya. There you go. Mr. Gray's raising his hand. What was she like? We only know her from the Bond picture, basically, and a few other things. Rosa Klebb, right, Gil?

Yes, and from her name being in the Bobby Darin version of Mac and Knife. And she'll work with Bobby Darin, too. La Llorona. Right. And you worked with Bobby Darin. I did. I did. I did. I worked with him, and I fixed him up with Sandra Dee.

You did? Yeah. Oh! That's a claim to fame. Okay, now. And they got married. So how did you fix these two up? Oh, I'm really good at that.

What was that picture? Come September? That's right. Rock Hudson. Yeah. Walter Slazak. Oh, we love Walter Slazak. Now I'm cooking.

Lifeboat. That was early in your career. And you're working with Rock Hudson and Robert Mulligan, who directed To Kill a Mockingbird, and Bobby Darin. Interesting times. Very. And I found this interesting. You didn't really, do I have this right?

You didn't really see necessarily musical theater in your future when you started. You thought you were going to be doing Richard III. You thought you were going to be doing... Yeah. Yeah, I never thought I could sing. Uh-huh. And I had to really study in order to do it. But it was what, you know, paid the bills and got the attention. Of course.

So I did it. What one memory of Lottie Lenya? Anything that stands out? She seemed larger than life. No, she was small. No. She seemed larger than life. No, she was small. No, I mean, she was not heavy. She was a great stylist. And, of course, you know, she was married to Kurt...

Vile. Kurt Vile was her husband. Of course. Of course. Kurt Feil was her husband of course and you thought after Cabaret you were never going to win the Academy Award right yeah did I? yes you certainly did

oh yeah I remember that night I was sure it was Al Pacino sure I mean it was Al Pacino. Sure. I mean, it was such a great performance and a great popular film. And it was his turn. Yeah.

This was Godfather 2? No, the first one. Yeah. Godfather 1? Yeah. Yeah. He hasn't spoken to me since. Is that true?

You looked genuinely shocked when they announced your name. And I love the Hagman story, too. That's fun. The best fucking neighbor? Yeah, you want to tell that? Yeah. I think I already did. Yeah.

We'll cut out that part and just... He was my next-door neighbor and my best friend at the time of the academy awards and uh he knew how nervous i was so i came home from the academy awards and there was this enormous trophy that he had engraved the Best Fucking Actor Award. No, no, no. I'm bringing it up myself. Best Fucking Neighbor Award. Because he thought I would come home empty-handed,

and he wanted me to have something. He also thought Pacino was going to take it. We all did. Yeah, yeah. That's a nice story. Well, I mean, Godfather, that was like the biggest movie in the world. Right. And musicals are less serious in terms of people's ideas about art.

Well, certainly in the academy. I mean, in comedies, too. Was Billy Wilder rumored to direct Cabaret? Not that I know of. to direct Cabaret that's interesting it's interesting the stuff you find he would have been good yeah

because I know you and Fosse and you don't have to go into the in detail about you and Fosse because it's a story that's been told

many times yes but how in the hell does he look at that character the character you won the Tony for and the character

you owned and basically say I see Ruth Gordon in this part. I mean, I told that to Gilbert and he turned white. Yeah. It's surreal. It was a strange moment. Yeah.

However, we pressed on. Yeah. You want to tell the backflip story? Because it's just so ridiculous. No. It's so funny. Not funny. It was awful. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It was the first day of rehearsal in Germany, in Munich. And he said, I have an idea for the two ladies number. Have you ever done a backflip? And I said, no, but, you know, show me how to do it. He said, okay, Johnny, come over here and watch me, you know, stand back on me. And he went, boom, and turned up and fell right on his face hard and stayed there.

He didn't move. We didn't know. It was the first day of rehearsal. We thought, oh, this is the end of the movie. And he got up and they took him to the doctor. And he was back the next day with his blue, his entire side of his face was blue, and the cigarette was hanging out. Unbelievable.

He was a genius. Yes, of course. We love all that jazz. He was great. He was great, great, great. And I guess I never understood what it was. Nobody did. I mean, even the people closest to him. But my instinct is that

he loved to perform. And I think somewhere in the back of his mind, if he could tell them not to use me, he could play it himself. How interesting. I mean, he must have realized,

he's looking at dailies every day, he must have realized that this guy is knocking this out of the park and have to admit grudgingly that he was wrong. Grudgingly. I have to say, in light of everything, Joel, you were very gracious in your acceptance speech. Well, you know, thank you. By the way, I watched you winning on YouTube, and Robert Duvall looks pissed off. Because he was nominated, too. He was. Yeah.

All those guys. Jimmy Kahn, I think, was. Four of them. You won over the entire cast of The Godfather. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. That's a silence.

Yes. Well, I also want to talk about the next movie that you made, which was since you brought it up, which was Man on a Swing, which I watched again. And by the way, you and Cliff Robertson have very, very nice chemistry together. Have you seen it recently? Last night. You did?

I'm not kidding you. You really did? I actually, some friends of mine had never seen it. Oh, it's so good. And I sat and watched the first scene. That was last night. Your first scene? Yes. Yeah, where you're on the intercom before I sat and watched the first scene. That was last night. Your first scene. Yes.

Yeah, where you're on the intercom before you even go to the police station. Yeah. Gilbert, you have to see this movie. Now, you did another movie that we spoke about in the introduction, and that was Remo Williams' The Adventure Begins. And that was Remo Williams' The Adventure Begins. Now, what was odd about that is, you know, this was like you were playing an Asian in it. And this was past the time when... A 90-year-old Asian. A 90-year-old Asian, yes.

Chun. Yes. Master Chun. Can we hear some of Master Chun? No. I cannot do that. Did anyone hear? You ask too much.

It's great. It's a little like Dick Cavett's Richard Liu. Remember Richard Liu? Character actor? Yeah. Asian character actor? Yeah. Ah, Krav Karya.

You like to disappear into roles, I've heard. You like to really transform yourself. It's fun. Yeah, you did with that character. You're really unrecognizable. I know. And you won a Saturn Award, which must have been a cool thing. I did?

Yes, you did. Yes. It's in my research. Wait, I don't know. No? Maybe you were nominated. That's even worse. Maybe I got that wrong.

Tell us about... To have not won the Saturn Award? There's so many things we want to ask you about. We want to ask you about Eddie Cantor, too. But we don't go in any order here, Joel, as you see. It's all very schizophrenic. When you were doing Buffalo Bill and the Indians, did you like working with Altman?

I loved it. Yeah? Yeah. We never knew what we were doing. It was a lot of improvisation. Yeah, because he gives actors a lot of rope. Yep. And that's how it gets written, really.

You know, it's kind of guide, and then everybody improvises, and he takes the best of it. Yeah. Because they said during MASH, both Elliot Gould and Donald Sutherland at one point wanted to get him fired because I guess they weren't used to working that way. Let's call him. Did you spend any time, this is completely off track, but did you spend any time with Pat McCormick while making that movie? Just looking up to him. Yes, yes. Because he played, I'm trying to remember, was it Grover Cleveland?

Yes, and he was seven feet tall. Yeah, yeah. He's sort of a character that comes up a lot on this show. He was fun. Yeah. And you liked working with Paul? I loved. He was great.

Yeah. Oh, my God. what a movie star. And Olivier. So I know and I read in my notes that you love Peter Lorre, but you also loved Olivier. Did you get to spend time with Olivier when you made 7% Solution? No, we didn't have any scenes together. Damn it. But my character was very Peter Lorre.

Yeah. Yeah. Leuwenstein. Yes, Leuwenstein, now that I think of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Leuwenstein. Yes, Leuwenstein, now that I think of it. Yeah. Yeah, Laszlo. Peter Lorre's real name was, his name was Laszlo Lowenstein. Who?

Peter Lorre. Is that true? Yeah. And that's where they got Lowenstein? Interesting. It could be. Is that possible? Yeah, his name was Laszlo Lowenstein.

Oh, my God. See? He came over on the same boat. As your bubbe. Yeah. Why didn't you learn any Yiddish from your bubbe? Gilbert, that's what I want to know. There was also, I think she taught me another expression

that was I think it was a shenren lakeman in dreddare. Which means they bury people who look better than that. Wow. That's a good one.

I read that you like to learn something every day. So now you have. Yeah, a good one. I read that you like to learn something every day. I do. So now you have. Yeah, that's good. Peter Lorre came over on the same boat with, what's the great director of Metropolis? Fritz Lang. Fritz Lang. Yeah.

They came over on the same boat. They escaped Germany together. What do you think, Fritz? I don't know, Peter. You tell me. Man on a Swing is a fascinating movie, I want to tell our listeners. People listen to this show, to our

surprise, Joel, and they like when we recommend movies. And Gilbert has recommended The Swimmer, Frank Perry's movie, a thousand times. So we're going to recommend another Frank Perry movie, which is Man on a Swing. You're very good in it. And eerie. And you have the difficult task of presenting this guy

as very strange and eccentric and off-putting, but he also has to be credible. And ordinary. And ordinary. I love the way you're shot with the white shoes coming down the stairs, too. I love your entrance. Good eyes. Yeah, good stuff.

Good film. And people should see Buffalo Bill and the Indians, too, because you're fun in that. And Paul Newman's fun in that. Yeah, he had a blast. Yeah, that's an underrated movie that people should see. And Remo Williams, too, because it's a scream. What about Dancer in the Dark? I love Dancer in the Dark.

I think it's genius. Yes, me too. Me too. I'm going to mispronounce his name. Lars von Trier? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

And I love his other film, Breaking the Waves. That's what made me want to work with him. Really? Yeah. Yeah. That's a, and I love his other film, Breaking the Waves. That's what made me want to work with him. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I got a call from my agent saying that this singer, this Bjork, is doing this movie called, not Breaking the Waves, Dancer in the Dark. Yeah. And she wants to speak to you.

I said, okay. The telephone rings. Hello? Yes. This is Bjork. Who? Bjork. I'm calling from Denmark

and making a movie called Dancer in the Dark. I'm Bjork. And I want you to come to Denmark and we will make the movie and you will dance. Yes, goodbye.

That was the end of it. Did you know who she was? I did. Uh-huh. I remember her wearing the swan dress at the Oscars, too. Yes. Yeah. She's a very interesting performer.

Marvelous. I love her. Yeah. I liked you in Kafka, too. The Soderbergh picture. That was fun. Yeah. Yeah.

And I also loved you on Sex and the City when you dropped your pants. Guess what? I know. Well, finish it out. I love that you're so amused by it. It wasn't him. People approach him and say, Joe, I loved you in Sex and the City

when you dropped your pants. Not me. Were you happy with the double they got you? A double S. I also remember seeing you in that second edition of Outer Limits. edition of um outer limits you were an inventor who invent whose son dies and you save his his brain or his intelligence and you put it into a robot of uh your son i did i remember it better than you're sure it're sure it wasn't Ron Rifkin? I think it was Eddie Cantor.

By the way, that Cantor clip with you is on YouTube. Isn't that... People can see it. It is wild. Shameful. Why do you say that? Because I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. Okay.

I mean, I didn't know what I was doing. I mean, I didn't know what I was doing. I mean, I didn't know. He says he compares you to Danny Kaye. He says you're the next Danny Kaye. A lot of pressure. Yeah. Yeah.

I was 18. Yeah. But what energy and what commitment. Commitment. Yeah. Right. Commitment.

Commitment. Commitment. Right. Commitment! Commitment! Now, you were friends with Robert Clary from Hogan's Heroes. Yes. He's still with us, Robert.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He's a sweetheart. Yeah. I haven't seen him in much too long. And what is the Eddie Cantor connection again with Robert? He was married to one of Eddie Cantor's daughters. To one of Eddie Cantor's daughters, that's right.

Natalie. That's right. How did the Cantor thing even come about? I mean, you do the Charleston at one point. It came about because he came to see Porsche Capades. Porsche Capades, right. In Miami Beach. Jenny Grossinger brought him.

And he came backstage and he said, I'm doing a show. Now you've got to take a back seat to the Eddie Cantor impression. I'm doing a show. And I think you'd be very good in it. I wish we had video. How did you find him? And he said, at the end of it, he said, well, that was very good. Would you like to be in a Broadway show?

Because I've just gotten word from this man who's doing the show that you have a part in it. Good luck. Wow. It was a lie. Oh, interesting. It was show business. Oh, just so he was just saying it for, yeah. Boy, that's, that's dirty pool. It's not a lie. That's the wrong word. That's dirty pool. It's not a lie. That's the wrong word. It was just show business. How did you find him to be?

Good. Yeah. I mean, really professional. His early work is awfully good. How about Keith Brazell in the Eddie Cantor story? His early work is... We had Leonard Maltin here last week and we were obsessing about Keith Brazell and the Eddie Cantor story

that's an obsession yeah because I remember there's one part in the Keith Brazell's well in Keith Brazell's Eddie Cantor and there's one part where he's in his apartment and a guy with the phoniest looking rubber nose comes in to show he was friends with Jimmy Durante. And it's like, Eddie, good to see you, Eddie.

It's like, dink, dink, dink. Oh, that's pretty good. We asked Leonard if he could, a listener asked if you could go back in time and prevent any movie from being made. What would it be? And he said the Eddie Cantor story. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then there was Jolson Sings Again. We were just talking about bad biopics and how many of those things they got wrong. And actually, I loved them. You do? I mean, at the time, as a kid, and Al Jolson was a hero. He really was a phenomenal artist. was a phenomenal artist. You liked all those pictures because you didn't,

you weren't old enough to know they were so seriously flawed. No. Wait a minute, now you tell me? Yeah. We asked him about,

what was it, Donald O'Connor and the Buster Keaton story? It was another one. Yeah. That wasn't brilliant? Well, give,

Joel will appreciate your jessel. Oh. Yes. Oh, let me, let me call up my mother here on the phone. Hello, mama.

Yes, it's Georgie. Georgie, you know, the one that sends you checks every week oh now you remember hey mama did you get the parrot that I sent you

what you ate the parrot but that parrot spoke seven different languages oh he should have said something that's great seven different languages. Oh, he should have said something. That's great. This is the kind of shit we talk about on this show.

Eddie Cantor, Donald O'Connor, name another podcast where they're obsessing about Keith Brazell. Can I ask you a couple of questions, Joel, that fans sent in for you? Sure. This is one. I know you like to be asked questions you haven't been asked before. Andrew Milner said,

Is it true that in the 50s, Joel performed in a backers audition for an unproduced Broadway musical called Saturday Night? Yes. Written by an unknown Stephen Sondheim. Exactly. Exactly. Yes. Does he have any recollections of that fateful event? Yes. Well, that answers that one.

I think we're being punked by Joel Greif. No, actually, I knew immediately that Steve Sondheim was a genius you did and I loved that piece and what happened what became of it I don't think it ever

got made interesting interesting to think that even the great Sondheim has I think it was his first show

interesting maybe did you ever see the movie that he wrote with Anthony Perkins The Last of Sheila I did yeah

that was fun interesting oh that was with James Coco wasn't it Maybe. Did you ever see the movie that he wrote with Anthony Perkins, The Last of Sheila? I did. Yeah. Yeah, it was fun. Interesting. Oh, that was with James Coco, wasn't it? James Coburn. Yeah, James Coburn. No, James, but wasn't James Coco like a Fatty Arbuckle? No, you're thinking of a different movie. Oh.

Which was the one with the cowlouch? You're thinking of The Wild Party. The Wild Party. The Wild Party, where he played a Fatty Arbuckle character. Okay, you can leave now, Joel. Here's another one, Joel. You'll like this one. Any memories of working on the Rankin-Bass special,

which was The Night Before Christmas? Yeah, take the money and run. That's honest. So not one of your proudest. No. If we're a Hanukkah special, that's something else. What about the Muppets? You did an early Muppet show.

I did one of the first Muppet shows. Did you like that experience? Loved the Muppets. Yeah, Henson was genius, wasn't he? Oh, I had the best time we will return to Gilbert Gottfried's

amazing colossal podcast after this here's one we're just gonna keep firing this stuff at you this has become an interrogation

Gilbert wants to know by the way if you do a Jules Podell impression yes since you played the Copa I don't think I ever met him you do a Jules Podell impression. Yes. Since you played the Copa. I don't think I ever met him.

You never met Jules Podell. Maybe it was, oh, maybe it was like that. I was like 18. I was really out of my depth. You didn't like playing nightclubs. I understand.

I was an actor and I was in the wrong place. Yeah. And you found that they held it against you when you tried to do legitimate theater? There was a bias? Yes, yes. I was a variety-ish performer. Well, it's interesting. There were a lot of gangsters in clubs back then who were running it.

Yeah, especially in Chicago. Oh, really? The Chez Paris. That was a great nightclub. Gorgeous, gorgeous line of girls. I was 18. Oh, my God. On top of the world.

It was 18. Oh, my God. On top of the world. It was great. And we always heard that the gangsters were like the nicest bosses to have. I don't know. Maybe so. I remember the gentlemen that ran that place were wonderful. Their names were, are you ready? Okay. Dingy and Don Joe.

I'm not kidding. Dingy and Don Joe? We talked to people who played you know the old days of Vegas and they said that they were happier

working for the mob than they were working for the people who replaced them the bean counters. All the celebrities happier working for the mob than they were working for the people who replaced them, the bean counters. Yeah. All the celebrities loved working for the mob. Yeah. They treated you really right. Donjo Medlevine.

He remembers his name. Wait a minute. Yeah, made a big impression. And Dave Halper was dingy. Dingy Dave. It's like a Damon Runyon. made a big impression and Dave Helper was dingy. Dingy Dave. It's like a Damon Runyon. It's a character out of Capra.

But they were really generous and fatherly. Interesting. Why did you hate the experience so much? Why did you hate being in nightclub? Obviously because you considered yourself an actor, but... That's exactly the reason. That was it. That's all there is to it. I needed a script, a part, a play, something that wasn't drinking and talking.

drinking and talking. And, you know, they didn't really care necessarily. If you were singing your heart out, if they were, you know, gambling or there was a girl there, I remember, you know, they just sat with their backs to you. Interesting. Did you ever deal with rowdy crowds or drunks or things like that when you were performing? Yeah. Yeah.

That's no fun. Gilbert, does it bother you? You perform exclusively in clubs. Does it bother you that people are talking or drinking while you're on stage? No, he accepts it. I'm not sure he notices it. I love every second of it. Am I right? You take it all right yeah you have to but no it is better when they're paying attention what was your act joel i mean was it a little

song and dance some some jokes i mean mean, what was the... Yeah. Was it all music? Special material. Special material. Who wrote the special material? You did. No. Uh-huh.

The writer that wrote the most for me was a guy named Jerry Seelan. Okay. And it was good. It was good. Do you remember any of your jokes from back then? I don't think so. And I don't think I want to say them. But it did leave. You've really attacked me in a way that I've not felt attacked

in so long. This room is devoid of respect. Right? Well, the good thing about your nightclub career is it led to a career on the screen. You started doing films and you started doing television, like Maverick and 7-7 Sunset Strip.

Yeah, but that wasn't from nightclubs. It wasn't? It was in spite of. Really? How so? Because, you know, I... Didn't Lana Turner see you at one point? I can't talk about that. Okay.

You know, you're really getting a little unpleasant. Oh, I see. You know, it could be a lawsuit. He's got a great poker face, Gil. I'll give him that. I was in love with Lana Turner. Were you? I was.

Oh. You and Johnny Stompanato both. That's right. Yeah. And I had a date with her. You had a date with Lana Turner? I did. Wow.

Well, this is something that every man at that time would have... He'd even now. drank laces with you. Yeah, it was good. It was next best to Rita Hayworth. You went on a date with Rita Hayworth? Put the blame on Mame. Oh, my God. You're putting us on now. No, I'm serious. You went on a date with her?worth? Put the blame on Mame. Mm-hmm. Oh, my God. You're putting us on now.

No, I'm serious. You went on a date with... I was 16. Wow. And I saw Gilda. Sure. And put the blame on Mame just was the most erotic thing

I'd ever seen. Did you ever see it? Sure, of course. You didn't feel it? Yes. Yes, I know what you're talking about. I like her in The Lady from Shanghai, too. Perhaps less erotic, but...

I loved her. I get what you're saying. Oh, well, since we're talking about Lady from Shanghai, I can do my Everett Sloan imitation. Perfect segue. Are you pointing that gun at me, lover? Well, good, because I'm pointing this gun at you. And then from...

What about Edward Everett Horton? You do Edward Everett Horton? I could never do a good Edward Everett Horton? You do Edward Everett Horton? No, I could never do a good Edward Everett Horton. But I'll do in... Oh! What? In Citizen Kane, he says, Time? I'm chairman of the board.

Pretty good. I have nothing but time. Great. That was worth everything. I think I'm leaving. No, you can't top that. You can't top Everett Sloan? Give him a little taste of James Mason, just because he's such a captive audience.

And I mean that literally. Congratulations, my dear. I seem to have made it just in time. But there's no need to be formal. I seem to have made it just in time. There's no need to be formal. I know most of you on a first-name basis. Any others you want? Joel's face is just enjoying this so much.

How about Will Jordan? We had Will Jordan here. We did. Will Jordan doing James Mason? Yeah. We had Will Jordan? We had Will Jordan here. We did. Will Jordan doing James Mason? Yeah. We had Will Jordan on this show. And he did Ed Sullivan. He was the most famous Ed Sullivan impersonator.

Yeah. He was sweet. He was a pal. Oh, good man. Yeah, he was great on the show. This show is... Wait a minute. This show is great. Is that it?

No. I was going to say what we tried to do is introduce younger audiences to people like Will Jordan on this show. We had, you know, a lot of character actors on the show. Richard Benjamin was here, Norman Lear, Carl Reiner. Bruce Stern. Yourself. It's good company. Yeah.

Richard Donner was here, Bogdanovich. A lot of good people. And it's like you being on the show for like younger people listening to this show, the same way your father, those people heard your father and said, I don't know what this is, but I like it. And I want to hear more of it. It's like there are people now who are going to start looking up your name who didn't know you before.

You'll see. Got about 60, 70,000 people downloading the show per week. It's a lot of people. It is. Yes. And we're proud to say we've introduced people like Barbara Felden and Bruce Dern and Larry Storch. Lee Merriweather.

Lee Merriweather and all of these other people to younger audiences. Jimmy Webb was here. Paul Williams. And the one I'm most proud of, Janet Ann Gallo, who was the little girl in Ghost of Frankenstein with Lon Chaney Jr. and Baila Gossi. You like old horror films, Joel? No. Oh, God. Oh, God. All right.

I'm going to ask you about your photography, and then we're going to let you get out of here. Tell us. You're doing another book. Do I have this right? Four books of photography? Right. Gilbert's sister

is, who passed away last year, was a published photographer. You might know her work. Yeah. Arlene Gottfried. I think you'd like it. I think I do.

It sounds familiar. She photographed, how would you say it, Gilbert? Like, she loved old New York the way New York used to look like. Of course. She loved any of the the way New York used to look like.

Of course. She loved any of the kind of broken down, poor, dirty stuff that you don't see now. Like New York's old, built up. No, not exactly. Yeah. I mean, we got plenty of Tsuris here. Yeah. And cock-a-doodle.

It's everywhere. I mean, they're just digging up every street. Yeah, you couldis here. Yeah. And cock-a-doodle. It's everywhere. I mean, they're just digging up every street. Yeah, you could say it. Yeah. Yeah, I know. But I think she liked faces. She liked regular people and interesting faces. And we'll send you a book.

Okay, good. I think you'll actually like it. How did you get into this? How did you decide that photography was sort of a second career? I'm a visual guy. Art has always interested me. I was at the

Cleveland Art Museum when I was eight years old, and I would try to get lost from my class so I could stay there longer. And they were looking for me. Interesting. In the tombs.

In the tombs at the Cleveland Museum. You've done four books and one coming called Sexy Flowers? No, the new one is called The Flower Whisperer. Oh, you changed the title. Yeah, my daughter called me that. The Flower Whisperer. And she's writing the foreword. I like that.

Here's what I wanted to ask you, too. Some of these performances, like you doing Amos in Chicago, are they available for anybody to see? Are there DVDs of some of your stage work, or The Normal Heart, or any of these performances that I'm never going to get to see? Are there DVDs of some of your stage work? Or the normal heart? Or any of these performances that I'm never going to get to see? No. Nothing is available? I don't think so. To see?

I mean, I saw you in Wicked. And that was a treat. That was good fun. Yeah, that was fun. Stephen Schwartz went to my high school, apropos of nothing. He did a great job. Yeah. You were wonderful in that.

If I may blow some smoke up your tush. I'll go for some more. You see? You do nothing, and they're screaming. We're an easy audience. You're sweet. You're very nice. Well, we're fans.

None of that can be seen. None of the not wicked or anything goes. Nobody ever put them on. You don't have them. I don't think so. Yeah. That's the interesting thing about theater. It's sort of there and then gone.

Some of that stuff is at Lincoln Center. It is. Yeah. And I have never looked. But I'm sure something is there. Of the movies and TV that you've done, are you able to watch yourself or are you one of those people who'd rather not? No, I have to. Yeah.

You do. Yeah. I have to look at it and say, what were you thinking there? And I see. And it came through. Or it didn't. Whatever. And that's how you learn.

My wife loves you in that house episode. She thinks you're heartbreaking. Yeah. And I like you on the night gallery episode where you killed Howard Duff. Do you remember this? With a very young Mark Hamill. In a bit part. I got another one for you.

Hit me. I was on the Raymond Burr. Oh, Ironside. Ironside. Yes. And I played a jockey. I don't think I've seen that one. Wait a minute.

And you know who my girlfriend was? Sherry Lansing. Future Hollywood studio executive. Right. Wow. Was married to... Married to... Yes. Wow. Was married to... Was she married to... Yes. Who was she married to?

She's married to the great director. Alan Pakula. No, not Alan Pakula. Who was she married to? God. Give me a hint. What did he direct? French Connection.

Oh, Friedkin. Right. Thank you. Right., Friedkin. Right. Thank you. Right. William Friedkin. Right. Yes.

Foolish me, saying Alan Pakula. Alan Pakula was married to Hope Lang. Right. How did you like Raymond Burr when you did Ironside? Nice. How do you like Gilbert Gottfried? Nice. So I kind of remind you of Raymond Burr.

You haven't asked about yourself. About me? Ask me. I think you like me, okay. What do you think of Frank? Nice. What do you think of our engineer, Frank? Nice.

You should have done more comedies, my friend. What about Maverick? What about James Garner? If I'm just throwing names out at you. One of my buddies. Yeah, wasn't he great? He was great. My wife and I just watched him in Murphy's Romance,

Martin Ritt movie. He was the. My wife and I just watched him in Murphy's Romance, Martin Ritt movie. He was the real thing. And we were very tight. And what did you think of him? What did I think of him? Yeah. In one word. Of Garner?

Yes. I thought he was a great actor. Okay, ask me what I thought of him. What did you think of Garner? Yes. I thought he was a great actor. Okay, ask me what I thought of him. What did you think of Garner? Nice. Nice. Using your own bits against you. I heard it. Is Buck Henry a friend? Yes. Buck Henry did this show. Yeah. We love him. He was very funny.

He's a wonderful man. Yeah. Yeah. What a body of work. I will tell you something about Buck Henry. Please do. For my opening night of Cabaret, I received a wire, a telegram from Buck Henry that said, wish I were there to observe your peculiar ways. Oh, I love that. You never forget that.

That's great. Right? That's great. Wow. You know, I remember a James Garner quote where they once asked him in an interview if he would ever do nudity. And he said, I don't do horror films. That's funny. You know, I loved your book, by the way, which I got on Kindle, Master of Ceremonies, which we're going to plug here from 2016.

A great journey. But also, I found this was fascinating, the vicissitudes of show business. One minute you're doing, you're in Jones Beach in this pirate production. With Louis Armstrong. With Louis Armstrong. Right. And not long after you're winning an Academy Award. But I was quitting in between. Right.

It was the end of my career. Yes, yes. That's also interesting. Jones Beach. Yeah. It was so horrible. Yeah. You were taking the bus out there?

I was dreadful. It was dreadful. And it was not what I had in mind at the Cleveland Playhouse. Of course. At nine. Of course. Of course. But a fascinating example of, as my friend Susie Essman says, stay on the bus.

It was the depths. Stay to the end. Esmond says, stay on the bus. It was the depths. Stay to the end. You were taking the bus, literally you were taking the bus, from New York to Jones Beach. Right.

And performing. It was Children's Theater? No, no. Oh, was it? It was called Mardi Gras. What was Satchmo doing in this? He was doing 20 Minutes. Getting a check.

It's fascinating, too, because a lot of times we've had guests on this show, Gilbert, who've told us stories like that. Like, I was bottoming out. I was going to quit. I was going to walk away. It was over. I was going to try to find something else to do with my life, and then a turning point. It's exactly what happened.

Was Hal Prince that turning point? Yeah. Yeah. He called me one morning when I was at my lowest. He said, what's the matter? I said, oh, no, it's just it's hard. And, you know, there's no work. And he said, well, forget it because I have a new show and I think there's a part of it for you.

Those were his words. He'd seen you in Stop the World? Yeah. I Want to Get Off? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I knew you were the guy. Planted the seed.

How about that? It's inspiring. It's inspiring to see how quickly things can turn and that all the time that you had put in was not in vain. And all these people that do the same thing and never get that moment. You tell that to young actors, young performers, ask you for advice? I just say that it's difficult. Yeah.

And it's nothing you can do about it. It has to happen. When Jennifer told you that she wanted to be a performer, how did you respond? I slapped her. I just, I said, God damn it. Hold on a minute. Okay. That's a good thing because you're beautiful and talented. That's

good. That's not true. Oh, okay. I mean, I wanted her to have a more normal childhood and young adulthood, but she was fierce like her dad. Good for her. We just had Diane Ladd in that chair telling us the very same thing about Laura Dern. Why do you have to do this? Can you be anything else? Can you heal lepers? Be a doctor or something where you're not going to be so harshly evaluated? You must have had a little bit of that, like fear for her being mistreated.

Of course. It's hard. You want to protect your children. She's done very well. She has. And she's got a beautiful daughter who's 16. And her husband's a terrific actor and director, Clark Gregg. Yeah, sure.

We were just talking about him. Yep. Yeah. Old Colson. Yes. Did he write What Lies Beneath? Yes. I like that picture. Me too. Very good. Sca he write What Lies Beneath? Yes. I like that picture.

Me too. Very good. Scared the shit out of me. Me too. God, that was... Very good. I was sorry I was alone. Yes.

People know Clark Gregg as Coulson from the Avengers movies, I guess, most popularly, but he's also a writer-director. Yeah. And he's on the Marvel... To be reckoned with. You know... He's on S.H.I.E.L.D., Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Every week. Yeah, someone to be reckoned with.

And he's a great director. Yes, talented family. What else you got for this man? He's got to go. He's got stuff to do. He's got pictures to take. I have to go to the Museum of Jewish Heritage. Okay, give us one more plug for Fiddler.

It's coming to Stage 42? Yes. In February? Which used to be the Little Schubert. Okay. February 19th. I think February 11th is maybe the first preview. February 11th.

Okay. I misspoke. Something like that. Okay. So we're going to tell everybody to go if you're in the tri-state area. No, you've got to see it. Well, we're going to see it. You should see it downtown.

Okay. Not this production. This production. This production. Yeah. Okay. Well, it's going to be the same people. I will buy a ticket right after we get off the mic, sir.

I think we can arrange for you to come. The publicist is waving. It's sold out, however out however oh only i knew somebody now i heard that it's also um translated yes they have the super titles in russian and english Russian and English. I can't. Actually, everybody knows. Oh, yeah, everyone knows the words already. Yeah, they know that story. And it's, I find the non-Jewish audience finds their own ancestry. Interesting.

In what we're putting up there and are mesmerized by it. And timelier than ever, as you've pointed out, with all the mishigas. Today, just looking at it today, at Mexico. Yeah, and the anti-immigrant sentiment. It's just horrendous. Your grandmother came from Russia? Uh-huh. And how did they end up in Ohio?

She had a cousin. Everybody had somebody. Yeah, yeah. That came first. Yeah. And my grandmother never learned to speak English. And one of my favorite things is she used to drive a truck in Cleveland. And I said, Grandma, how did you get a license?

She says, I gave the man a couple bucks. I love it. All right, we're going to tell everybody. Gilbert and I are going to go see it first, but everybody needs to see Fiddler on the Roof in Yiddish, directed by the great Joel Grey. For personal reasons, I want people to see Man on a Swing and Buffalo Bill and the Indians,

and that Night Gallery episode, which is also online. Gilbert? And I want to hear you sing another one of your father's songs. Okay. Do we have it queued up? You need music? No. Okay. He's going to do it without music. I give me a home with a wife and a son where the sheep and the oxen live. I give me a house with a couple hundred cattle to sell Everybody sing Come on in and bring plenty of change

From Ereve to Boika I play with Pinocchio and Boika There in my high schooler, off in the range. Fantastic. The great Mickey Katz. He was. Mickey would be proud. Performed by his son, Joel, the great Joel Gray.

To our listeners, find Mickey Katz. The albums are out there. The videos are on YouTube. Get them. Joel, this is there. The videos are on YouTube. Get them. Joel, this is my new favorite episode of our show. We've done 247 or so on Godly Number. Thanks for schlepping out in the rain. It was funny.

Oh, very. It was funny, and you guys are good. He's going to give you a sign-off. You're very cute. Thank you. As are you, sir. Funny, charming, and sweet. You're very cute. Thank you. As are you, sir. Funny, charming, and sweet. You're very kind.

Gil? We've been talking to the great Joel Gray. That's it? Yeah. That was as much as you could do? After a minute. How long was I here? Joel, Joel.

Give yourself a sign-off. Oh, could you do like a little station ID for us? Yes. No. I know better. Thanks, pal. Thank you. If someone stood up in a crowd and raised his voice a boy out loud and waved his arm

and shook his leg, you'd notice him. If someone in the movie show yelled, fire in the second row, this whole place is a pumpkin, you'd notice him And even without clucking like a hand Everyone gets noticed now and then Unless of course that person it should be Invisible Inconsequential Listen, it should be invisible, inconsequential. It's been a few weeks. Cellophane, Mr. Cellophane

Should have been my name, Mr. Cellophane Cause you can look right through me Walk right by me And never know I'm there, I tell ya Cellophane, Mr. Cellophane, should have been my name, Mr. Cellophane, cause you can look right through me, walk right by me, and never know I'm there. I'm there Suppose you was a little cat

residing in a person's flat who fed you fish and scratched your ear you'd notice him Suppose you was a woman wed and sleeping in a double bed beside one man for seven years.

You'd notice him. Ah, human beings made of more than air. With all that bulk you're bound to see him there unless that human being next to you is unimpressive undistinguished you know It should have been my name, Mr. Cellophane Cause you can look right through me, walk right by me And never know I'm there, I tell you, cellophane, Mr. Cellophane, should have been my name, Mr. Cellophane. Cause you can look right through me, walk right by me. I never know I'm there.

Never even know. No, I'm there. Never, even, no! I'm there. Hope I didn't take up too much of your time. Thank you. deals. Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to John Fodiatis, John Murray, and Paul Rayburn.