Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - John Leguizamo

Episode Date: August 17, 2020

Emmy and Tony-winning writer-director-actor John Leguizamo joins Gilbert and Frank for a funny, energetic conversation about Latin history, defunct comedy clubs, the freedom of voice acting, the films of Barry Levinson and George Romero and the debacle of "Super Mario Bros." Also, Wesley Snipes plucks his eyebrows, Gilbert envies Raymond Burr, Lorne Michaels disses Steven Seagal and John runs afoul of Al Pacino, F. Murray Abraham and Patrick Swayze. PLUS: "House of Buggin'"! Saluting Mel Blanc (and Al Hirschfeld)! Remembering Tony Scott! Toulouse-Lautrec wows the ladies! And John "kills" Lee Strasberg! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BMO ETFs presents Views from the Desk, a show all about markets and investing with ETFs. New episodes every Thursday morning. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. Our guest this week is a writer, author, playwright, director, producer, and Emmy and Tony-winning performer of the stage and screen. You've seen his work in feature films like Summer of Sam, Romeo and Juliet, Moulin Rouge, Carlito's Wave, Casualties of War, Empire, Ship, The Lincoln Lawyer, John Wick, To Wong Fu, thanks for everything Julie Newmar, and the Ice Age franchise, just to name a few.

He's even shared the screen with yours truly in the hit film Dr. Dolittle, where I played a dog and he played a rat. You might also know him from his highly acclaimed series of one-person Broadway and Off-Broadway shows, including Mambo Mouth, Spikorama, Freak, Sexaholics, Ghetto Clown, and his most recent show, Latin History for Morons. In a long and very diverse career, this man has appeared in over 100 motion pictures, and he's worked with everyone from Al Pacino to Arnold Schwarzenegger, played to sold-out crowds all over the world, authored a highly entertaining memoir, and won dozens of awards. He's also been named a cultural ambassador of New York City Office of Media and Entertainment and Global Ambassador of the Arts.

His new film, Critical Thinking, which he directed as well as stars in, will be released later in 2020. Please welcome to the show one of the most versatile, charismatic, and courageous performers of his generation. On the other hand, he did turn down the movie Philadelphia to star in Super Mario Brothers.

Yeah, that wasn't too clever. The multi-talented John Leguizamo. How you doing, man? Thank you for that intro. Wow. John, welcome. I'm tired. Hey, Frankie, what's up?

How you doing, man? I'm doing great. I know. I can't believe I turned down Philadelphia. I thought Super. Hey, Frankie, what's up? How you doing, man? I'm doing great. I know. I can't believe I turned down Philadelphia. I thought Super Mario Bros. was going to be huge. You know? And it wasn't. It wasn't. What happened with Super Mario Bros.?

What happened? You didn't see it? I saw it. So you know what happened if you saw it. It didn't go off the way everybody everybody thought it was going to be the big hit the birth of uh video game movies and it wasn't it was it was you know i don't want to denigrate it because kids love it well they're not kids anymore like in their mid-20s but but they love it and you know i was with Bob Hoskins, who just won an Oscar.

Of course. And Dennis Hopper, Easy Riders. And, you know, we had a great time off camera. I heard the movie came out so badly that the studio told the actors, when you do these press junkets, don't say how bad it would be. Well, that's just a good rule in general. If you know it sucks, don't go around saying it because you're going to make it suck even more.

Was there someone who contacted you? Do I have this story right? Was there a porn star who loved the film? Oh, my God. Do I have this have this yeah this is true i i was it was my birthday and and a poor star contact me i won't i won't say her name but her initials are pk and uh we'll figure it out you might you might grab it you, you might, Rabbits. You might, you might. And we went out for, you know, a date and whatnot. Because she loves Super Mario Brothers.

She loved it. And she goes, I would do anything to Luigi. So there's a perk. Yeah, I would say. Yeah. And I also heard, like, Dennis Hopper's kid asked him, his son said, why did you do Super Mario Brothers? And Dennis Hopper said, so I could buy you shoes. It's probably true. Yeah.

And his son said, I don't need shoes that badly. What was he like, John Hopper? Oh, Dennis was incredible, man. He was so fun. He was so quirky. He really wanted to create like this method dinosaur gangster. And he would walk around like a T-Rex, like with little tiny T-Rex hands. Oh, he was method. hands oh he was method yeah he was method and then he had his hair done like a t-rex and he was just a fun guy you know and we would we would do all these uh fiona one of the great british uh

show off you want to show one of the great british uh shakespearean actresses would organize these weekends where we would read one of the great Shakespeare plays, all of us. And Bob Hoskins would show up, and Fisher Stevens, and Dennis Hopper. And it was just an amazing time off camera. It just wasn't on camera. I mean, another good thing that came from this was your relationship with Fisher, who you later collaborated with. I mean, another good thing that came from this was your relationship with Fisher, who you later collaborated with. Oh, Fisher and I became best friends.

Fisher and I actually became best friends at the public theater because we were doing Midsummer Night's Dream. Oh, I see. And I was playing Puck. And I thought, you know, I'm method. I studied with Lee Strasberg. Actually, he died when I was in his class doing an exercise. My acting killed him, truthfully. And so I was playing punk, and so I started playing practical jokes on the cast. And I bought itching powder at the joke store and put it in Fisher's underwear before his wedding nuptial sex scene.

And then all of a sudden, I'm backstage going, they're going to love me. I'm going to be, they're just going to put me on their shoulders and carry me off into like the funniest gag ever made. And Fisher starts screaming on stage. Ow, ow, my balls are on fire. Ah! And I was like, uh-oh, that shit didn't go right. And then I was fined by equity. Right. that shit didn't go right. And then I was fined by equity. And basically, I was subsidized in Shakespeare

being fined for getting paid no salary. But then we became best friends. It's in the book, too, the story of you playing puck. And how would we put it? Running afoul of F. Murray Abraham? Yeah, I love F. Murray. He lives right next door to me in Manhattan downtown. I see him all the time.

He looks great. And he just won his Oscar for Salieri and Amadeus. Right. And I'm this loud mouth kid. And he's on stage and he comes back and he goes, John, he gets on his knees. Please, I beseech you. I allow you the time when you're on stage.

I don't talk while you're talking. Can you allow me? Can you be, I beseech you. I allow you the time when you're on stage. I don't talk while you're talking. Can you allow me? Can you be, I beseech you. And I was like, come on, Murray, get up, man. Come on. And he had his Oscar. He was holding his Oscar and beseeching me. And of course I never talked again when he was on stage. Walked around with his Oscar. You would too if you could. Oh, and I just remembered one of the best, just getting back to Super Mario for another second. Yeah, why not? He's going to keep hopping on Super Mario. One of the reviews was like the tagline on the poster was, this ain't no video game. And some reviewer, his whole review was the poster says,

this ain't no video game. And they're right. Video games are entertaining. Oh, oh, oh, man, that's harsh.

That's harsh. Did you break Bob Hoskins finger? This is true. This is true. This is true. Bob and I were having such a hard time with the movie that he started saying, John, let's get back to my trailer and have some more sensations. And I wasn't sure what he meant by that. I mean, I liked him, but I didn't like him like that.

And he goes, no, you can't. It's a libation. So we would go back and have some whiskey. And then we started having too many whiskeys. And I'm a lightweight. And all of a sudden, it was my big stunt day. We were going to do, I was going to drive the Super Mario Brothers van and save Princess Peach. And I had too many.

And they go like, five minutes, Mr. Leguizamo. I can't. I can't go. I'm drunk. And Bob's like, you can't do this stunt. I can't. I can't go. I'm drunk. And Bob's like, Gisha, you can't do this stunt. I go, Bob, please let me. I got my big macho stunt in the movie. So I'm driving the van.

Bob's standing there all vero-like. Come on, let's get this going before I forget what it is I did for a living. You can't understand them unless you have subtitles. And it was a manual truck i thought it was automatic i never drove manual before so like i'm jamming the clutch and the brake first second third fourth eventually i get it going and i step on the brake too hard and the door comes flying out and breaks all of bob's little fingers oh unbelievable and he's like in a Cockney Tourette's. Like, that ain't geezer.

Coke and Coke. Crispy duck. They taped his hand, so he had to, like, shoot the gun with his hand taped to the duck. Oh, my God. Hell of an actor, Bob Hoskins. Oh, what a great actor, man. He was so fun. And he could do that Brooklyn accent. You know, remember when he always...

When he talks, he talks like this here. When he's doing that, you know, he's doing a Brooklyn. It sounds so good. Then he'll cut. He's like, I'm going back to my trailer for a little more sensation. Now, do you remember when we met? OK, I was I was going I was flying from New York to LA. And I'm walking down the aisle. I find my seat. And you were sitting in the other seat. And we looked at each other, smiled, nodded our heads, and for the entire six-hour flight, never said a fucking word to each other. Because

when I'm on the plane, I don't want to talk to anybody. Even though I was like, oh my god, I'm so excited to see you. I was like, but I don't want to talk. And obviously you didn't want to talk either. Yeah. Were you guys working? Were you busy? Were you reading scripts or buried in something?

I'm just tired all the time. So I was like, this is my time to shut down and not talk to anybody. I see. And it was even when either one of us had to go to the bathroom, we would push past the other one. Not even an excuse me. Not even an excuse me. We were so like, this is our chance to, you know, debrief. You know what I mean?

You guys could have spent six hours talking about your shared love of cinema and Jerry Lewis. Well, well, well, Dean. Nice lady. I love Jerry Lewis. Did you ever meet Jerry, John? No, no, I never met him. Did you ever meet Jerry, John? No, no, I never met him. Did you, Gilbert? Yeah, a couple of times I met him.

And I can honestly use that old cliche. Well, he was always nice to me. Right. Yeah. Sometimes he wasn't so nice. I was lucky. Was the pest, John, an attempt to make your Jerry Lewis movie? You know, maybe subconsciously.

I think it might have been a combination of that and Mel Blanc's Bugs Bunny. Yeah. You're also a big Mel Blanc guy. Oh, huge, huge. He's a comedy god. You know, all those voices. It's unbelievable that he could do all the voices talking to each other and you, and you couldn't tell it was the same guy. Do you know the story about Mel Blanc

and the car accident? No, no. Gil, tell him, tell him. Yeah. That's where Mel Blanc got into a horrible car accident and, uh, he was in a coma. True. And the doctor kept coming into the room and trying to get him to talk, and he said, Mr. Blank, Mel, Mr. Blank, Mel, and no answer. And finally, the doctor stopped, and he said, I want to speak to Bugs Bunny. Oh, wow. And from the coma, he goes, what's upugs Bunny. Oh, wow. And from the coma, he goes, What's up, Doc? Oh, wow.

And then he said, I want to speak to Daffy Duck and Porky Pig. And he could do all the voices. But he couldn't talk as himself. He wouldn't. Yeah, as himself. Imagine if that happens to us. Yeah. All we could talk is like Sid the Sloth.

Are you the parrot, right? Yeah, I guess. Pull the plug, please. Please pull the plug. Kevorkian me, please. John, talk a little bit about growing up in Queens. You're for your local product from Jackson Heights. You know, I told you, you know, I'm from Ozone Park, you know, Gilbert's from Coney Island. Gilbert, John wanted to know if you rode the Cyclone. Yeah, I was on it. I think I was

on the Cyclone once. Yeah, that was where I wasn't when I was being raised there. I well, I I lived there till I was five and we go to steeplechase a lot. Oh, yeah. And but yeah, I rode the cyclone once. That's what's scary about the cyclone is you think it is going to fall apart. Yeah. Yeah. It did not look like it was maintained. Yeah. Gilbert, I always like to think of you as Alvy Singer living under the cyclone. Oh, yes. That's everybody asked me that. I thought that's why you were so loud, because you live right next to it and you couldn't hear yourself.

That's why. That's loud, because you lived right next to it and you couldn't hear yourself. That's why Gilbert got me. Gilbert would have drowned out the cyclone. Oh, he would have. Reminds me of the bit from your show about how every time your dad said something important, the train went by. Oh, my God, because we did. We lived on the second floor right across from the L. We lived on the second floor right across from the L. So if you were watching like a mystery movie or a whodunit, a murder mystery thing,

all of a sudden they would go, and the killer is, and you hear the train go, and you would never know. So that's how I think I learned how to write, because I never heard who the villain was, who the killer was. So I had to make it up in my head. We've talked to a lot of funny people on this show, John. What's something that keeps coming up? And Gilbert, we've referred to it. A lot of people that went into comedy because they had maybe one depressed parent or two depressed parents. Jackie Gleason being a good example. Yeah. Or like a sick parent

or a sick parent that they would try to cheer up. Gene Wilder, Jan Murray, a bunch of people like that. For you, two things. You said it was a way to get your father, a way to stay on your father's good side to make him laugh. But also a survival tactic, you know, regarding the streets, growing up in the streets. Yeah, I mean, comedy became a way for me to survive everything because there was white flight in my neighborhood. You know, all the Irish people were leaving, the Jewish people, the Germans. They were all running away.

But before they left, they wanted to beat me up. Get one in. Get one in. Get that little cockroach before I leave. I'll punch him in the face. Hey, you better not touch my daughter, you mook. Hey, here, you're about to ping, you know. So I got a lot of beatings there.

And then I go home and my father was like seriously autocratic. Like he thought he was running a military operation. He would be whacking us all the time as well. So if I made him laugh, I would be spared. So it became sort of my survival mechanism to stop the guys from beating me up and keep my dad from beating me up. So that's what saved me. So you brought all ethnic groups together to kick your ass. Against me. I unified them against me. They had a common enemy. The Latin guy moving into their hood.

Yeah. You also said you developed your ear for dialects and for characters in the hood because everybody was represented. That's right, because everybody, they'd be a nice Jewish lady who lived across the street. And she'd go, you want to come over and have a little, give you a little lachs and bagels? It'd be fantastic. As soon as I could say. And then the Jamaicans moved in. Yeah, man, come over here. I'd be fantastic. As soon as I could say. And then the Jamaicans moved in. Yeah, man, come on. I'd be working

five jobs. I got a car. I had a Jamober. You know, so I heard accents all day long and it was like it was like candy to my ears. You know, I loved it. Yeah, was Coney Island like that too? Was it a total melting pot? Coney Island?

I don't remember if it was a complete one yet. I just, I mean, I just remember going to, you know, going to steeplechase. Yeah. But I, I remember, oh, also I remember they used to give us these when you paid money to get into the rides, and they'd give you a little round card with circles, and they'd punch out the circle when you get on the ride. So we used to put our fingers and thumbs over the hole so they would give us a second ride. You were working the system, Gil. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gaming it, gaming it. Yeah, we used to do that with bus passes. We used to split them. You used to get one and you just split it in half

really carefully and you give it to somebody who didn't have it and they can get on the bus because they would show the back and you'd show the front. Oh, wow. You guys never crossed the paths in the clubs because, John, we were talking on the phone last night. John and I have a little shared history because I used to see John perform. What are we talking about? The 80s. Yeah, 80s.

Mid-80s. PS-122 and Surf Reality. Did you go to Catch a Rising Star 2 and comic strips and oh roddy dangerfields yeah yeah oh yeah i never saw you there were two scenes because there were two scenes there was the uptown scene which was all comedy clubs and it was a downtown scene which was performance art so it was the kitchen ps122 home uh first amendment first amendment yep and it was just a little different it was more story based right and uptown. Yeah. And it was just a little different. It was more story based. Right. And Uptown was all comedy clubs.

It was more commercial and much more set of jokes, set of joke rhythms. And there were so many clubs that along the way that would open up, they'd be open for like two weeks. Right. And then and they close like that for like two weeks. Right, right, right. And then, and they close like that, like gone. Yes. My all-time favorite, as far as cringeworthy comedy club titles, there was a comedy club called Sir Laughs A Lot. Sir Laughs A Lot. Yeah, yeah. That sounds like the bottom of the barrel. Oh, beyond. So that stayed in my mind all these years. You used to do West Beth Comedy Club. Do you remember West Beth Comedy Club? I do.

Yeah, I do. I also remember doing a club called Gil Hodges Grand Slam Lounge in Brooklyn. Grand Slam Lounge in Brooklyn. In Brooklyn. Wow. They make you travel. They don't pay you. Oh, horrible. And that was impossible to get to.

Impossible, yeah. You had to take like three buses and two trains. You're exhausted before you even perform. And what are you performing to five people? Five drums? What would I have seen you doing, John, in those spaces? I mean, this is before Mambo Mouth. So you were essentially working those characters? Yeah, I was doing a girlfriend at the time, Carolyn,

and I would do sketch comedy. Yeah, I don't remember seeing you as part of a duo. That's funny. Yeah, you were part of a duo, and then I would do my own stuff with the First Amendment. I was part of the Company C, which goes to show I was at the bottom of the bag. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast after this. Baseball is finally back.

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wager. Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call ConX Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Nobody goes on vacation for the moments that are just... okay. That's why Sunwing vacationers go all in like it's a buffet of fun. Whether you're skimming the treetops like Tarzan's long-lost twin, or deep-end swimming with your flippers and fins.

Or maybe you're just perfecting the art of doing absolutely nothing. Whatever vacationer you are, with Sunwing, you save more so you can do more. Book with your local travel agent or... Now, tell us about your experience with the generally very professional and good-natured steven seagal oh man oh man i mean steven i don't even know what it became with that guy he's a piece of work unbelievable i mean we were doing this movie called um i've done 100 films i films I can't remember. It's with Kurt Russell, Joe Morton, Oliver

Platt, Executive Decision. That's it. Executive Decision. So I was doing this movie, Executive Decision with Kurt Russell and Steven Seagal and Steven Seagal in the first day of rehearsals starts going, I'm in command. What I say is law.

You guys have to listen. And I started cracking up thinking he must be joking, right? He can't, this'm in command. What I say is law. You guys have to listen. And I started cracking up thinking he must be joking, right? He can't, this can't be a real line. I mean, so I started cracking up like, and he elbows the shit out of me, knocks all the air out of me. And I'm like, why, why? And then he was supposed to die like the first 10 minutes I was there.

I was the first one to show up on the set to watch his imaginary death, which I was trying to pretend it was real. Well, what is up with that guy? I don't know. He was difficult, man. He didn't know his lines. He always showed up late. Didn't want to come out of his trailer when he was supposed to die.

Yeah. He hosted an infamous episode of Saturday Night Live that I don't think they're in a rush to repeat. He used to beat up stunt guys. That was the stories I've heard is they used to beat up stunt guys on purpose and not care. And finally, once stunt guy supervisor said, you want to fight my guys? You're going to fight me. And he put him in a headlock and had him on the ground. He goes, next time you hurt one of my guys, I'm going to hurt you bad. Wow. Because he didn't respect people. He didn't have any respect for me. You can't come to a set and treat everybody like that.

Gil, do you ever run into Steven Seagal? No, but I remember one time on Saturday Night Live, I forget the host, but they did a scene where the host is talking to Lorne Michaels. And he says, oh, I screwed up the beginning of the show. You must think I'm the biggest jerk to be on Saturday Night Live. And Lorne Michaels goes, no, that was Steven Seagal. The reputation procedure. John, do you remember Gilbert on SNL for one season?

Of course. Of course I do. Oh, geez. How do you forget Gilbert? He came on and seemed like a comet. Yeah. I try to forget that season. I'm not going to ask you about regarding Henry.

But one thing, because you talk about it in the book and how that role was not one of your prouder moments. See, but Regarding Henry came out, there were about three movies that came out at the same time. Regarding Henry was You'll Be a Better Person with a Bullet in Your Hand. Yes, yeah, yeah. you'll be a better person with a bullet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then there was one with William Hurt called The Doctor. Yep. That you'll be a better person if you get throat cancer.

And then there was that movie, The Rape of So-and-So, where Richard Krenner. Oh, The Rape of Richard Beck. Yes. He's a cop who gets raped. And he's a better person for it. So I guess that there's a truth to that. I don't know. Maybe you do come out better

on the other side of such... It was the 80s, man. It was the 80s. There was too much coke going on. There is the one anecdote about regarding Henry in the book, that the crew took revenge on Mike Nichols. Oh, rest in peace. I love the guy and have huge respect,

but he was very particular about everything, especially about his coffee, and he wasn't always in a great mood. He was a tough man. He gave a lot of tough love, and I guess he got it back because he complained about his coffee, saying that it tasted like cat piss. I can't drink this. Go make

another one. He kept sending the coffee back and back until they finally peed in his coffee, and they gave it to him. He drank it, and he said it tasted better. That one was for you gil you can't don't the lesson is don't mess with the crew yes so you're a director too you know that you know that yeah you can't you can't because they will they will do things to you that you will not live down. So because of parts like the part in Regarding

Henry, because of stereotypical parts, and you saw what was being offered Latin actors, you decided to take matters into your own hands. Yeah, right. I mean, because here I was in Regarding Henry, and I'm playing a Latin guy who's a shooter, you know, just demeaning and debasing, and it's just my only opportunity. You know, like all my other friends are going to 10 or 20 auditions a week and I'm going to one audition every five months for something horrible. And I was like, wait a minute, we all went to acting school together.

We all went to college together. Why do I have any, I don't have any opportunities. So I realized that the playing field wasn't really fair. I mean, they just weren't, they just didn't see Latin talent as viable or they didn't write Latin stories, even though we're the second largest ethnic group in America. And we've been here since the beginning of time.

We didn't just get here on a boat. And so I decided to write my own stuff because I was like, there's no opportunity here for me. So let me create my own. And I started doing Mambo Mouth. And all of a sudden, you know, the Latin community found me. And also I had like Sam Shepard came to see my show, Arthur Miller. I mean, one of the great playwrights of all time. Al Pacino, Raul Julia, Olympia Dukakis, Johnny Kenny Jr. I mean, they were in my house as well as all these Latin people

finally being able to see themselves reflected back. You know what I mean? So it was a powerful moment for all of us, you know? It's a great success story too. I mean, an actor doesn't like the roles that he's being offered and the situation that he's being presented with. So he decides to punch his own ticket, to write a showcase for himself. Yeah, the rejection of Hollywood

helped me reject Hollywood back. It's great. It's a great story. And Frank and I were talking about your experiences with Leonardo DiCaprio. And what was he like to work with? Oh, dude, he's a blast. I mean, he gives he gives three hundred percent,

bro. Three hundred percent. And even off camera, when I had scenes to do with him as Tybalt, he was back there performing it as fully as when he was in front of the camera. Wow. He's a very loyal kid. I mean, he's a young man now. He's in his 40s. He was he was he was 19 back then. Wow. We got to ask about Wong Fu. Ask away. And about Chi Chi Rodriguez.

First of all, did the actual Chi Chi Rodriguez, the golfer, sue the production? Yes, he did. I'm a famous golfer. I'm respected. You're degrading my trademark. By casting a, creating a drag queen character. Right, right. And naming it Chi Chi Rodriguez. Right. Did Julie Newmar, how did, how did they work things out with Julie Newmar to use her name? She's in the picture. She loved it. Yeah. She loved it. She loved the tribute. She loved the fact that we were sort of worshiping

her. She loved it. I mean, she was such a gracious lady and she was fun. You know, I mean, we all had a crush on her when she was Catwoman on the original Batman series. Of course. Of course. I told you before we had her here. Yeah, how'd she do? She was great. She told Gilbert she had a thing for short men.

Well, everybody's short with her. I mean, that's every guy. It's groundbreaking, too, that movie, because it's the first time a Latin drag queen was presented in a major motion picture. Oh, yeah. I mean, I took it very seriously, man. I knew I was representing a marginalized group that never got any screen time. And I didn't want to do a spoof or a parody. I wanted to do something with dignity.

So we spent a lot of time with real drag queens. And they took us to all these clubs that were underground in Manhattan. La Escolita. I can't remember all of them now. Because this was 94. But we went to all the clubs. With Swayze and Wesley Snipes. And the guys were great, man.

I mean, they were all open to sharing experiences and they all taught us how to be. Sure. You know, how do they think as women? How do they move as women? And and we tried to, you know, do the best we can. I stopped eating meat for eight months before the movie. I was running, trying to lose all my muscle, you know, just so you could look more, more feminine. She, uh, I was going to say she, he's a fascinating character, uh, uh, Chi Chi. He's, he's in a way, he's the most sympathetic of, of the, of the three characters. He's, he's, he's the underdog. She's, she's, she's the underdog. And you wanted, you wanted the character, you wanted, it was important to you that the character have an arc. Oh, yeah.

And I worked really hard to make sure that, you know, it was my big opportunity. I'm here with some superstars, Wesley Snipes and Patrick Swayze. Yeah. And I wanted to, you know, steal a little bit of their limelight as well. You know, and I know how to write. So I created this character arc of this drag queen who was learning how to be more finessed instead of so street and so ghetto and and to become comfortable with her skin color because i have a lot of relatives who back in the day their neck would be 50 shades darker than than the face It looked like they were doing Kabuki.

So it was like, you're not really comfortable with yourself if your face is that pale and your skin, real skin, is so much browner. And what were your experiences with Patrick Swayze? You know, I love the guy, but we ran into some, we had beef.

I don't know why we had beef. We shouldn't have ever had beef. Have you noticed that a lot of people we're talking about have passed away? Interesting. Everyone you know dies. Everybody who works with me passes away. This is a warning. You better watch out.

You mentioned that in the book. Yeah. I mean, Dennis Hopper. Strasburg. Dennis Hopper. Bob Hoskins. Bob Hoskins. Bob Hoskins.

My acting teacher. Right. Passed away as well. Yeahrasburg, Dennis Hopper. Bob Hoskins. My acting teacher passed away as well. Yeah. Yeah, so be careful. Yeah. You better check your wills. Consider ourselves warned. What happened? You know, I don't know.

Maybe we were too method. I don't know what happened. Maybe we were really thinking we were women, but we started menstruating all at the same time. You're sharing a cycle. Yeah a cycle yeah definitely sharing a recycle and and we were we got into each other's face and and patrick's like john you go to improvise again like that i go yeah that's what i do i improvise i make stuff up he goes well you better shut up i go you better make me shut up. And so we started, you know, putting up our dukes, ready to hit each other. And the director, who's like eight months pregnant, puts her belly in between. Please don't.

Don't fight, girls. And Wesley's like, don't worry. Hit him. I got your back, John. And they finally broke us up. And, you know, then we got back to normal. You know, we just needed to let off some steam. Interesting.

But he's in a dress with high heels. It's amazing. Hot pants. By the way, you talk about the importance of commitment in an actor. Three guys really committing to their parts. Oh, yeah. At a time when it wasn't a thing. Sure.

At a time when it wasn't so acceptable so acceptable, it takes a lot of courage. It's not quite as shocking now. No, not now. But it must have been then. And it was bold. It was bold of the three of you. Yeah, because it wasn't like some like it hot, whereas two guys are acting like women to get to the hottest woman on the planet. Sure. These were three guys. And then you got two,

two action stars play pretending to be, uh, gay, uh, trans women. Tell us this, this one's for you, Gilbert.

Tell us about the gender bender. Oh yeah. Yeah. This is the, yeah. I hope you ate already. Uh, they came up with,

I mean, drag queens came up with this gadget. It's like a belt that you put yourself in, if you know what I mean. Yeah, your junk. You put your junk in it. All of it.

I'm scared already. And then you pull so it goes all the way behind you like you're fucking you pull so it goes all the way behind you like like you're fucking yourself oh and it goes all and and you hide all your junk so there's no lumps or bumps and oh jeez i so at the end at the end of the day you are so i don't know how to put it man just I don't know how to put it, man. Just sweaty, bloodless.

Were you afraid you wouldn't get feeling back in your dick? You're like looking at it. Please come back. Please come back. What happened with your eyebrows? Oh, man. They plucked it. The drag queens kept saying, you know, we're going to pluck your brows. I go, you can't pluck my brows. They framed my face. They go, man, they plucked it. The drag queens kept saying, you know, we're going

to pluck your brows. I go, you can't pluck my brows. They frame my face. No, no, drag queens. They they they clip them all the time and they grow back. Trust me. And so they pluck your brows

for six months. You could see Patrick Swayze, Wesley and I from now on from the rest of that movie on. We don't have full brows anymore. They're like these little weird sketchy things. Gilbert, don't pretend, Gilbert,

that you never wore that device. A gender bender. And one movie I always watch when it's on where you are Benny Blanco from the Bronx. Oh, yeah. Pacino and Sean Penn. Sean Penn at his best. Yes.

He was great in that. Oh, he was incredible. He was playing Alan Dershowitz, who now is a scumbag, but back then he was a respected lawyer. Speaking of lawsuits, didn't Dershowitz threaten to sue the production? I didn't know that.

I believe he did. Well, Frank, you would know. You know all the dirt. I believe he did. I know Cheechy sued. You know all the legal dirt anyway. I read too much. I believe he threatened to sue the production for the likeness.

Because he did. He tried, you know, pen-shaped his forehead. Right, right. And then he permed his hair. and he was doing all the fake coke. Did you run afoul of Al for improvising, for being yourself on set a little bit? You know, I was a young punk, and I was really full of myself. And here I am with my hero, Al Pacino, the greatest actor of all time. And I just wanted to I just want him to respect me, man. I wanted to look, I'm as good as you. So when we started doing the scenes, I couldn't shut up. I was improvising like crazy. And De Palma loved it. But Pacino didn't like it so much because I just wouldn't shut up. But Pacino didn't like it so much because I just wouldn't shut up.

And eventually he told me, like, you know, why don't you do a little less? Less is more, John. Just do less. And I'm like, wait a minute. You're doing more, but you want me to do less? I was like, nah. So obviously I did more. And then eventually, you know, he was going to turn me in to the producer and have me, like, fired.

But he didn't. Oh, boy. And then you worked again with Pacino. And this time with Pacino and Robert De Niro. Oh, Righteous Kill. Oh, yeah, Righteous Kill. Yeah, that movie was not so good. That's the one. I read an article that that's the one movie that De Niro and Pacino both regret being in.

And it's the first time they ever really appeared on camera because in Heat, they weren't together. That was a double. Oh, that's interesting. They manufactured that scene. Oh, that restaurant scene. Yeah, that's not the two of them. That's a stunt double. Wow.

I noticed it watching the movie. Oh, you did? Yeah, because I said, people are saying, oh, you see the two of them together. And I said, there is not one scene in this movie that they're in the same frame. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. Right. Right. Gilbert. You know, it flashes to Pacino. Right. Over the shoulder, over the shoulder. Yes! But no 50-50 of the two of them yet. That leads me to why... Do I have this right? Harvey Keitel came to see Ghetto Clown and told Al,

you shouldn't go? Keitel's the best. I mean, the trifecta. You know, De Niro, Pacino, and Keitel. We want to get Harvey here. Oh, you got it. Harvey's the best, what a sweetheart man he's a lovable dude, and he came to see

he said I love this, this show's fantastic but Al can't see it and I was like I get it nobody wants to hear I'm not being negative on Al, I have the hugest respect for him, I was just talking about what happened with the two of us. Our egos clashed a little bit, you know, and it was all healthy and

good. You managed to be terrifying in that film. You've completely disappeared into that character. Oh, yeah. You know, I was doing a lot of research. I was hanging out with real drug dealers doing their rounds with them. And one of their brothers got shot. And I was like, wow, this is, their rounds with them, and one of their brothers got shot, and I was like, wow, this is, I shouldn't be here. This is really dangerous. What an idiot. I'm an actor, and I could get hurt really badly, but I learned a lot, man. I learned from watching the guys, you know. Yeah, it's kind of a mixed feelings for these kids who have all this great ambition, but yet are putting it through the wrong, in the wrong kind of path. Yes. Which leads me to a question, our first question from a listener, John. This is

from Cliff Gottberg. Welcome, Benny Blanco from the Bronx. Does he have one good Luis Guzman story? Luis Guzman story. I had a lot of great Luis Guzman stories. I started doing this, great louis guzman stories uh i i started doing this this fox asked me to do my own version of in living color oh yeah and uh i and i had been working with with louis on on um carlitos way and i and i we had a lot of fun off camera we were goofing all the time and i said louis would you come and do a workshop with me with all these Latin actors? We were trying to create a company for House of Buggin'. House of Buggin'. And I got Louie on it, and Louie was hilarious on the show. He's one of my favorites.

Oh, he's such a character. He's so good in Boogie Nights. Oh, he was great. That was my role. I turned it down. You did? Oh, jeez. Damn.

I told you, I'm an arrogant fool. Jesse Fernandez says, when you work with Pacino in Carlito's way, his accent was at peak foghorn leghorn. You know, it's interesting what happened to Pacino because for a while, I mean, he had that great voice, but then eventually he became like,

I say, boy, you're a chicken hog, boy. It's so funny because I was watching Godfather 2 where he barely moves his face. Incredible, right? And his voice doesn't go above a whisper. But you know why? That's, you know, Lee Strasberg was his coach to those years. Yes.

And he was one of the great acting teachers. And if you have a coach like that, you're not going to make any mistakes. And tell us about your experience working with Lee Strasberg. Well, come on. Lee is the godfather of, you know, great acting in America. I mean, even though Brando disparages him, he did go through the Strasburg Institute, James Dean, Pacino, obviously. So many great, great actors went through there. And so I was in this actor's studio.

And I'm in this class, you know, I'm in NYU, and I'm in Lee Strasburg's class, you know, and Lee was very old, and he talked like this, he very know, I'm in NYU and I'm in Lee Strasper's class, you know, and Lee was very old. He talked like this very quietly. And he had this throat thing that he would do that all the time. And he goes, now do an exercise. Recall the death of your dog. And so I'm doing like, you know, recalling my dog dying.

And he goes, pretended to laugh. And I go, what am I, white? A Labrador? I don't have Labradors. We have pit bulls. And I did my pretended to lab. And I go, what am I, white? A Labrador? I don't have Labradors. We have pit bulls. And I did my sense memory badly. And he died that night. My acting killed him.

Oh, God. They closed down the school and everything. And I was like, I can't believe my acting killed him. I was that bad. And didn't he say that you're, uh, you're boring me? Oh yeah. Yeah. But that's an old acting teacher technique to get you to do more. Oh, Hey, did you, did you take acting classes, Gilbert? Uh, well, if you've seen any of my performances, so I take that as a no.

You know, John, we've asked this question of a lot of actors, and I'm going to ask you, because I heard you say that you think stand-up comedians sometimes make the best actors. Oh, yeah. Do you think Gilbert could play a dramatic role and pull it off? Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. You can't get a straight actor to do comedy. It's almost impossible. But you can get a comic actor to do serious acting.

There you go, Gil. Yeah. Especially if they let him improvise. If they let him be himself, he'll rock it. Another endorsement, Gil. You got one from Alan Arkin and one from John Leguizamo. Alan Arkin paid me the best compliment anyone can get. What do you say? What do you say? Especially Alan Arkin. Oh, my God anyone can get. What did he say? Especially Alan Arkin.

Oh, my God. He's such a great actor. And he said that he thought I would make a good Willie Loman. Yeah, yeah. I could see that. Death of a salesman. Broadway, here we come. That brings me to a question about House of Buggin.

Rob Martinez, please ask John about House of Buggin and why Fox didn't give this hilarious show a chance. And why isn't it streaming or on DVD? Well, what happened was that Nielsen ratings were not really in black and Latin homes. were not really in black and Latin homes. So we were underrepresented because Latin and Latin and black people were watching house of bugging, but maybe not as many white people. And so we, I created this show with this Latin cast and Fox wanted to keep the show

going with me and, and the, one of my white cast members, and they wanted me to fire the whole Latin cast and recast. And I said, I'm not firing anybody. You've got to fire me. I'm not going to fire my friends. And so they kept my format. They kept my producers, my writers, and directors that I had put together,

and they turned it into Mad TV. Wow. Interesting. TV. Wow. Interesting. Please. Interesting. Good for you for taking a stand. Oh, yeah. I'm a loyal dude.

I don't care. This game is long. I don't need to be playing stupid tricks. It's a long career. And speaking of Gilbert's acting, here's a good question from Mike Rusakis. I heard a rumor they're bringing back the odd couple for TV, uh,

for John and Gilbert, who would play Gil, who would play Felix and who would play Oscar? Oh, that's tricky. That's tricky. Gilbert, who do you think?

Who do you think Gilbert? Oh God, I'm kind of thinking I'd be Oscar, but I'm open to arguments on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I could do Felix, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we both can't be both Oscars.

No. No, somebody's got to be a Felix. Too bad we didn't have, like, a page of the script that we could try it out here. Well, I have the script. No, no. I actually do have the script. I'll try it out here. Well, I have the script. No, no, I actually do have the script. I'll scan some pages for you. We'll do it another time. I see you guys being versatile enough to swap roles every other night. Right, right, like they did with John C. Reilly and

Philip Seymour Hoffman when they did a True West. Oh, True West. That's right. That's right. Very good. About the one-man shows, John, I mean, and we use the word courageous in the opening. You know, I said to you on the phone, you are a very, very courageous performer. You know, you've pissed off a fair number of people with the one man shows, including your family, specifically with Freak. Oh, yeah. My father tried to sue me. My mom was mad at me forever, but I got her a house, so she... That's what I love about my mom. She has a price tag, and that's unconditional love to me. You said a very nice thing about your mom in your Tony acceptance speech. You said that single moms were superheroes.

Oh, yeah, yeah. My mom, what she put up with, two boys, as crazy as we were, going to school and, like, you know, three jobs. I mean, she was everything. My mom was everything. She put up with everything. I mean, I was, I got into so much trouble. I got arrested for delinquency. I mean, who gets arrested for truancy? I mean, truancy.

Uh-huh. Because we got cut from school and we were in Times Square trying to see a porn movie in high school and they arrested us for hanging out. That's a rite of passage. Right?

Yeah. Matthew, do you remember which film you saw? It didn't have PK in it. All I remember, there was a lot of people in trench coats.

That's all I remember. We were like young kids who were like, oh, this is disgusting. It was, yeah, it was horrifying. What about the fallout from Ghetto Clown? Because obviously, and you know, you said I was young when you wrote the book. I was young. I was full of myself. You took, you took some chances telling some tales out of school about your co-stars right right uh yeah i mean you saw patino what what couldn't come and see the show and yeah yeah anything else uh swayze was upset you know swayze's at that time said that you know if he saw me he you know he's gonna punch me uh that's what happens nobody wants to hear everybody wants to hear all the good stories about themselves. They don't want to hear anybody

punking on them. And I was a little bit, but it was a sacrifice to show people that even when you're successful, you still got to fight for quality and you still got to fight for yourself,

for your dignity. I mean, you still got to fight. I mean, it's not just you're successful and everything comes to you. What about your wife? My wife and I watched Sexaholics the other night and there's a lot of reveals in there.

No, she's not happy about that. She's not? No, she's not happy about that. She's not happy about it then. She wasn't happy about it. She's not going to be happy about us talking about it. Talking about how unhappy she is about it. We'll about it then. She wasn't happy about it. She's not going to be happy about us talking about it. Talking about how unhappy she is about it. We'll cut it out.

No, you can keep this because we didn't talk about it. Let's talk about Latin history for morons, too. Which is just, you know, it's an important piece of work in addition to being a very entertaining piece of work. You were motivated by your son being bullied in school. Yeah. To tell an important story. To set the record straight. To rewrite history for people.

I wanted my son to be able to defend himself verbally, not with fists. I wanted to stop the cycle. And so I thought, let me do research and find out and give them things to be proud of, of being a Latin person. And then when I'm starting doing the research, I'm finding out, wait a minute, 10,000 Latin patriots, unknown Latin patriots for the American Revolutionary War.

We had generals, Galvez, who had an army of mitzvahs of 3,000 Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Mexican-Americans, freed slaves. And they pushed the British all out of the South. And he donated $75,000 worth of weapons. Cuban women in the American Revolutionary War in Virginia sold their jewelry to feed the patriots. I mean, we've been around making this country happen. And then in the Civil War, 20,000 of us fought. The first admiral was David Farragut. Venezuelan Philip Philip Bazar,

Puerto Rican, Augusto Rodriguez were all handed the Medal of Honor from Abraham Lincoln. I mean, we've been around doing great things and it's just not in Discovery Channel, not in a Ken Burns movie. It's just our contributions are erased. So I did this show to bring that information forward in the most entertaining possible way, because even if you give it to people straight, they don't want it. Of course. It's also watching the show. It's also an indictment of of the American public school system and the New York City public school system that we both grew up in because that information isn't available. Right. Right. At one point, you pull out a textbook, your son's textbook,

and you rifle through the pages looking for any mention of these people. You have to turn to Howard Zinn's alternative book, The People's History of the United States. It's a great, great, incredible... An essential book. You heard from Howard Zinn's daughter? Yes, I did. In Latin history? Yes, I did. Because,

you know, I paid such tribute to it and there was an uptake on Amazon for People's History of the United States. An essential book. An essential book, man. It's a must read. Life changing. And she DM'd me and said, oh, thank you. I'm so glad the book was important to you. It's important to my to my father it's just very touching that she understood that I respect her father and her father's work it's a great show with contemporary references

we won't go into them you know connections to the current administration but it's an important piece of work thank you thank you I wanted to make a difference. And I feel like I have. I mean, you know, Julian Castro, who ran for president, came to see the show.

And his brother, we had Alexandria Ocasio come. Oh, wonderful. You know, and a lot of important politicians came through. And I feel like the information is getting out there, you know. Like Eric uh, Eric Garcetti, the mayor of LA came to see it. And, and then he proposed a whole inclusion of Latin history in California textbooks. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's in the news. I mean, the 1619 project is in the news now every day and Tom Cotton fighting that we won't make the show too political. Gilbert, this is interesting. One of John's greatest honors in show business was being drawn by the great Al Hirschfeld.

Oh, one of the greats. But then he died. Another casualty. He drew my picture and then he died so they didn't post it in the New York Times. It's unpublished. Oh, God. But that is an honor. It is an honor.

Yeah. I mean, I couldn't believe it with a Nina in it. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Oh, man. A true honor. How many Ninas did you have? I think I only had one.

Oh. Because it's funny. How many do you have? Gilbert, were you ever drawn by Hirschfeld? No. You were drawn by Mark Drucker. Yeah. Yes.

Yes. I was drawn by Mark Drucker. And by Drew Friedman. Of course. Oh, yeah. Drew. The great Drew Friedman. I was drawn by Drew Friedman.

There you go. An honor. Yeah, it's an incredible honor. All three of us. This is so funny. When you said Al Hirschfeld and Nina, I start looking at you and going, well, it could be in the mustache or the hair. Right, right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where's the Nina? Yeah. John, you've worked with so many legendary directors. Ridley Scott. You and Gilbert both worked for the late Tony Scott, by the way. Oh, Tony. What a lovely human being.

Yeah. Such a sad end to a life. Yeah. Did you throw up on him, though? Yes. We were doing this movie called Revenge. I mean, I was a young guy, and I was drinking and partying. We were in Mexico City, and I was drinking too much tequila.

And I ordered chapulines, which is a Mexican delicacy called fried grasshoppers. And I ate too much and drank too much. And the next day, he's directing us. Come on, John. Go out there. Rock and roll. You know how to do it, John. Bring it.

Bring it. I'm like, okay, okay, okay. And I'm running and running. And then he'll cut, and I come back to him, and I'm like. I throw up all over the poor man in his hairy chest. There you go. Gilbert, you did not throw up on Tony Scott when you made Beverly Hills Cop 2. Yeah, and my experience with him was like in that scene, because me and Eddie kept doing it different each time they shot it, and how he stayed out of it and just let us play.

That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, because a lot of directors, that takes a lot of confidence in a director to let his actors have fun and know that that's going to make your movie better. Not a lot of directors understand that. You've also worked with Spike Lee in Summer of Sam. Oh, great. You've just worked with Barry Levinson, who we had here.

Oh, yeah. Barry, they're great. You've just worked with Barry Levinson, who we had here. Oh, yeah. Barry, what a great artist. We did this incredible movie just now called Harry Haft. It's a true story of a Jewish prisoner in Auschwitz who fights, who the Nazis make him fight other Jewish prisoners to the death, but he survives because they feed him and they protect him, and then he finally can escape, and he comes to America, and he fights Rocky Marciano. And I'm his fighting coach in America in 1949.

Wow. Oh. True story, true story. Great body of work, Barry. Barry, this is his opus, his magnum opus. How about that? Masterpiece, masterpiece. But this leads me to a question from a listener, Music and Monsters, he calls himself.

Will John share anything about working with the late, great George Romero? Oh, wow. George Romero, yeah. You know, he was Cuban. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Half Cuban, half Lithuanian from the Bronx, from the BX. How about that? yeah you know he was cuban i didn't know that yeah yeah yeah geez half cuban half luther wayne from the bronx from the bx how about that i always thought of him as a pittsburgh guy right because

he moved there and he stayed there but he's he told me he was originally from the bronx and and oh man i did land of the dead uh i think his second to last feature he was his most expensive feature he got 20 million dollars to do that one. And the brother, man, he was incredibly 69 years old. He only drank Coke, coffee and smoked cigarettes. No real food ever entered his body. Oh, my God. And he's like Romero. was like every of the 10,000 shows of the undead and the movies, it all goes back to him. And he doesn't get any money for it. I mean, if you created, he invented a zombie. I mean, all that zombie culture came from him. How come he's not getting a piece of that? I don't understand. How about De Palma? Anything you can tell us about working? You did Casualties of War when you were a young, unproven actor, and then obviously

Benny Blanco. Yeah, De Palma was wild, man. I mean, he was amazing. He loves real tension in front of the camera. He loves shit to go down. It was you know, it was a bunch of young actors. We're in Thailand. Stephen Baldwin was originally in it. And then he was fired and they cast John C. Reilly. This is Casualties of War. Yeah, yeah.

Right. And, yeah, it was fun. Was there something about you being slapped repeatedly? Oh, well, there's a scene where Sean Penn, he's like a rogue sergeant. You know, like what happens in the war? You know, guys start losing their morality, start losing sort of the sense of who they are.

And he wants this. It's based on a true story. The sergeant wants us to rape this poor Vietnamese girl as a rite of passage. And my character refuses. So Sean Penn's character has to slap me into submission. So we're doing this scene and it's not going right. And I don't know why, because my face is out to here by now on the 13th take. I'm even talking like this now because I can't really pronounce that my face is so swollen. You're taking like Sid the Sloth.

Yeah, basically with where I created the character. And Sean is slapping me and he's going to slap me one more time and I go, cut, cut, I can't do this anymore. And then it's not even in the movie. They cut the scene out of the movie. Wow. That hurts.

All that slapping and it's not in the movie. And Sean was slapping me for real. Cause he's, he's method too. Wow. And what was Michael J. Fox like to work with? Oh,

he's a fun guy, man. He, we were playing a lot of poker with him and he, you know, he was, he was, he was,

he's very different. You know, like Penn is really intense and he, and he was a Sergeant 24 seven. So he was always like, you know, drilling us and being a tough guy. And then Fox was on the other hand, you know, he's just more charismatic, fun guy to hang out with. You had a point, and I refer back to the book again. You had a point in your career where you said you were done playing roles that were physically taxing.

Where you sort of had to, you know, you were done trying to prove yourself as an actor. Spawn was a part like that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there was a time where I was like, you know, it was too Wong Fu with the gender bender and the blocking and all that stuff. Then it was Spawn. And I was like in a, basically this hellish costume for like, they would pick me up at 4 a.m. in the morning to put makeup on my face,

which was glued, glue to my face, up to my eyeballs. And then they put ginormous contacts and fake teeth. And the heat in that thing was ridiculous. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. I need to start doing roles that are more like me unless I don't have to run away from myself anymore. Gilbert, did you ever have a role where you had to you had to undergo that like prosthetic makeup? Yeah. In fact, that was when Barry Levinson was on. We talked about that. We did a pilot and in the pilot, I was doing a character character that was a middle-aged man and somehow middle-aged became a thousand in between uh uh director producer and makeup man because i looked like in the movies like well like when they stabbed the painting of dorian gray yeah and so they used to they would do the calls and say, OK, everybody get here at eight o'clock in the morning. And Gilbert, you get here at three. And it was like they would do hours of prosthetics.

Right. Right. And the thing never went anywhere anyway. That's the that's the anyway. That's the worst. That's the worst. Toast of Manhattan. I started to get, yeah, I started to get like my skin. Oh, yeah. Like a rash all over my face. And they said to stay out of the sun.

And it was pretty horrible. Yeah, I had blisters all over my face. Like pus-filled blisters, calluses. And the suit was so restricting that you said you wound up squatting through the whole movie? Well, you know, I was trying to be as tall as the character. It's supposed to be 4'11", as created by Todd McFarlane for Spawn. So I had to measure me to be exactly 4'11". And they couldn't come up with any device that, you know,

could, they tried to come up with little seats that with wheels and springs, but nothing could hold me up correctly. So I had, I had ended up having to like squat. I mean, my, I had buns of steel by then, but, but it was hard to do. And to lose the trick, another extremely physically taxing part. Oh yeah. I, that, that was, that was. And to lose the track, another extremely physically taxing part. Oh, yeah. That was the toughest thing because I had to learn how to balance. Because to lose the track was 4'9", or something like that. And Baz Luhrmann wanted me to be exact height.

And I had to learn how to balance on miniature, like, seven-inch prosthetic feet. And I learned how to balance on that. And I ended up compressing my whole lower back. Like, I could see, like, some days lightning would rush to the top of my head. Wow. But it was a great character. I mean, that movie brought back the musical that had been dead since 1972. Grease was the last successful musical until Moulin Rouge.

A very audacious movie. Mm-hmm. That man is a very audacious man. Baz. Yeah, Baz Luhrmann. Yeah. It's, you know, there's so much going on in that movie. That's what I love about it.

I mean, the energy is so, it was so modern at the time, so MTV. I've got to ask you, too, about all the great character actors you've worked with, because I told you when we were chatting on the phone about how we love character actors on this show. We've had your friend Griffin Dunn. Oh, I love Griffin. And Steve Buscemi was here, and Joey Pants was here. Great, great character. Oh, so many that we love.

And, I mean, I just have to ask you about, we'll ask you about Jim Broadbent since we're talking about Moulin Rouge. Another great character actor. Yeah. And two guys we lost recently. Robert Forster and Brian Dennehy. Oh, I work with both of them. I directed a

boxing movie for HBO and Robert Forster was in the movie. What a nice professional guy, man. What a talent. And Brian Dennehy's one of a kind. You know, really, nobody knows, but he was Ivy League, super bright, but always playing Irish cops.

But he was an intellect. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast, but first a word from our sponsor. Navigating adulting isn't always easy. You're not just working, you're working late. And dinner dates are all, what's your five-year plan?

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He is one of the funniest dudes. Yo, his sense of humor is crazy, man. Because nobody makes me laugh on the set all day long like Arnold. Really? Arnold Schwarzenegger made you laugh on this more than any of the other people you've worked with. Oh, hell yeah. Great comics and comedic actors that you've worked with.

I don't know if it was comedy that he was saying, but he was talking shit about everybody. Which I can't repeat because I'm not going to get anybody in trouble, but he would say the most audacious shit that made me laugh all day long. And he goes, John, you're always laughing at me. You make me think I'm a comedian. I go, I just love the crazy shit you say. Cause I, I think it, but I can't even say that. What, uh, this is interesting too, about Toulouse. Uh, you, I didn't know this until I read your book. He was called the tripod by women. Because he was a product of two first cousins.

This should be a lesson to people not to sleep with their cousins. Because he had cartilage-like lips and tongue. That's why he spoke with a lisp. And his legs were hardened. And for some reason, he also had a very large penis. They call Gilbert the tripod. Yeah, but I think it's only because it's perspective because the legs are short. So it makes everything else look longer.

I don't know. Of course. So the key is to have shorter legs. Gilbert, now that you know John a little bit, do you feel comfortable asking him about being in the all-black version of The Honeymooners? Oh, my God. Yes, with Cedric. Cedric the Entertainer and Mike Epps. Yes.

That was a movie that needed to be made. We roast you a little bit here, John. No, no, it did need to be made, but not the way it was made. It was not, and it wasn't Mike Epps or Cedric's fault or any of our fault, man. It was just the studio wanted to make it too Disney, too cute, and it killed it. I mean, if you're going to remake The Honeymooners, you've got to go, like, rude and bring it up to date. Yeah, that's true. I think that's good. Cedric would have been a great Jackie Gleeson.

He just needed to be more Cedric and less, you know, a 50s sitcom. So it got Disney-fied. Yeah, yeah. sitcom so that so it got disneyfied yeah yeah they could never allow in a show or movie for ralph craven to say you know oh yeah going to the moon alice to the moon i mean that he's gonna punch his wife come on i love you so much i'm gonna knock you out no that doesn't that doesn't play in our modern world as as we wind down, John, Darren Bokes, another listener, does John have any memories about being in the Madonna video for Borderline? Of course, man.

I mean, the rumor was that Madonna was into Latin guys, and she would drive her limousine around and pick them up in the alphabet city. So I was like, yo, I'm going to make it easy. I'm going to show up on the set and be right there. But all I got was a pat on the back and a sandwich. Sam Weisberg, early in your career, John, you played multiple hilarious parts in the underrated Puerto Rican Mambo, not a musical.

Yeah, that was one of the early, early things that you do for, you know, because you want to work. And this Puerto Rican cat wrote this script, directed it, produced it, did the whole thing himself. And he had me playing one of those Latin guys who, you know, are self-hating, a self-hating Latin guy. I have to tell people, too, before we get to the new movie that you directed, and we'll talk about that. I just want to tell people to find, uh, ghetto clown, if they can find it and, and Latin history for morons. They're both terrific shows. I've been having, I've been having trouble finding a ghetto clown streaming it, but there's a documentary about the making of, which is fascinating your work ethic that you actually decided to take the show to Colombia

and learn fluent Spanish so that you could do the entire show in Spanish. It was brutal, man. It was a year of my life. I was like a monk. I was like, all I did was like rehearse in Spanish, had a grammar teacher, a dialect teacher. It was like learning a foreign language that I but I already knew, but I couldn't learn it. And somehow I couldn't retain it in my head. And I was able to do it.

I traveled. I was one of the first American performers to perform in Colombia. And it opened it up. And then all of a sudden Beyonce went and Madonna. So it was kind of like an important diplomatic move for me to show how safe it was to perform over there. It's really touching in the documentary how you were embraced there. Oh, it was beautiful. It was beautiful.

I mean, I feel like when I go there, I feel like I'm with family, which I am. And you've opened up theater to so many new audiences, which you should be credited for. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, it's important to me. Would you advise Gilbert attempting a one-man show? Oh, hell yeah. Gil, what do you think? I guess so.

Why not? Yeah. You could do it. Yeah. Could you do something seven nights a week, Gilbert, without losing... See, that's the part I hate. It's like with movies, you hardly have to work.

Movies, you're sitting around all day. You're at the craft table. On stage, you actually have to work. Yeah, but you know, Bruce Springsteen did a show five days a week. He only did five shows. Yeah. And Gilbert, you don't have to be as physical as John. You don't have to dance and do somersaults and all this stuff. You could be like Spalding Gray, because you sit at a desk. You only did five shows. Yeah. And Gilbert, you don't have to be as physical as John. You don't have to dance and do somersaults and all this. You could be like Spalding Gray. You

just sit at a desk. Yeah. To me, walking out on the stage would be my exercise. Opening the door, walking down the stairs, pushing the curtain. And one of your shows, you had trouble publicizing because of the title oh yeah well well spicarama which i can say uh you know it was bad it was bad in texas and in canada because of the title they don't get irony do they no they don't get it they don't i mean they yeah texas is a strange place we all know that yeah hopefully hopefully it'll turn blue this this 2020, because, I mean, 40 percent of the population is Latino, 12 percent black in Texas, and it's ready to be blue if they if they didn't gerrymander it or gerrymander the horrible voter restriction. Yeah. That they you know, it's a felony in Texas to register somebody if you're not if you're not

deputized and the deputizing office is open once a year unbelievable so they definitely don't want democracy there let's hope it's in play uh gilbert i absolutely could see you doing a one-man show where you sit on a stool yeah oh yeah like elaine stretch yeah elaine she was older than you yeah Yeah, I'm being compared to Elaine Stritch. That's a compliment. She was like 70-something and she had the shirt and nothing underneath. Do you hire a choreographer for all those shows, John? Because I told you, my wife will stop doing anything she's doing to watch you dance.

Yeah, no, I had a choreographer. Yeah, you know, I wanted my moves to be super tight. So yeah, I got somebody to hook me up. And in Sexaholics, was there, the woman in the audience was not a plant. She was just a woman you pulled out of the audience. Yeah, yeah, eventually I made it a plant because some people couldn't dance. Okay.

I was like, I don't want to be dancing with somebody who can't dance. I had to, I had to ask. Tell us about the new movie, Critical Thinking. Critical Thinking is my independent film debut, uh, comes out September 4th on all platforms. It's, it's this true story of five Latin kids who became United States chess champions in 1998. And they came from the ghetto is ghetto in Miami. And they and they were regional champs, state champs, and then became United States chess champions

when nobody believed in them. They had no money, no recourses, and they made it. And when does it come out? September 4th. Okay, good, good. And what's happening with this comic book that you told me about, with Image Comics? Yeah, let me show you. Let me show you this comic book that you told me about with image comics? Yeah?

These are the test pages And if we can see that looks great And and here it is transform, so it's called phenom X and the uncontrollable uncontrollables and Todd McFarlane Who did spawn with me is? Publishing them on image comic books which is the third largest publisher in the world after Marvel and DC is Image. So it's a huge honor for me and a lucky break. So you're the only guy working during the pandemic? I mean, I got a lot of time on my hands. I might as well produce.

What's the future of movie theaters, in your opinion, John? Because you know New York. We're all New Yorkers. So many of them have closed. We've lost the Ziegfeld. Oh, I know. I mean, the movie-going experience, seeing a movie, especially a comedy, with an audience and a group experience. There's nothing like it.

I mean, they're not going to go away. I mean, people understand that it's an event, and you're going for the event in a shared experience. Watching TV at home, it's not the same. We all know it's not the same. You don't laugh as loud. Things don't hit you as hard. Theaters will come back as soon as the COVID goes away. You think so? Absolutely.

I hope so. Because the theaters were going before the COVID. They were closing. Some, some, some. but no, a lot of them were still going. I mean, my son, my kids are always going to the movie house. What do you think, what do your kids, your kids are older now, but

did they get a kick out of you in Ice Age? Did they get a kick out of, because I've asked this of Gilbert, because his kids were young, and he introduced them to Iago, and, you know, there's that weird thing, right, Gilbert, where they don't like it. They don't like it. No, they don't like it. I there was some cartoon on with my voice in it. So I I told my daughter, oh, look, look,

look at this character. And it sort of took is me. And she just nodded her head and went back to her room. Right. Right. I mean, dad's always like stopped me to rest. And I go, hey, hey, hey, come here, John. Hey, Johnny, come here. Hey, my son, say hello to my son. Just sit the sloth. And I go, this is not going to go well, sir. I mean, it's going to shock the child.

He goes, no, no, do the voice. So I start going like sit the sloth. And the kids are like horrified that this mustachioed old man is a character that they like. But you liked the experience. You liked going into the booth and not having other actors to worry about. Oh my god, no egos, no

publicists, I don't have to deal with other people's bullshit. And you can, you don't even have to brush your teeth. You don't even have to wear deodorant. You don't have to do nothing. You're in a booth by your damn self doing whatever the fuck you want. I love it. So you and Dennis and Ray Romano, you guys were never in the same. We did it once together and it was a big fail. Okay. Because they can't, they, we were so over talking, they couldn't separate the voices. And Gilbert, you never, as you've said on this show many times, you and Robin were never together.

Yeah. And I hear all these stories about how, boy, when Gilbert and Robin went into a sound booth together, that was craziness. I never ran into him once. At the premiere, right? That's the first time you see each other. Yeah. John, we got to plug the book. I know it's a, what, a 16-year-old book. I know it's a 16-year-old book now.

Or a 14-year-old book. Pimps, Hoes, Playahaters. And the rest of my Hollywood friends. The rest of my Hollywood friends. Not even just for the Hollywood stories. But there's so much in there about your early days. And your relationships. And crazy assistants.

Oh my god, yeah. Crazy stalker assistant. I mean, there's so much. If you're a fan of John Leguizamo's, pick up the book. Is there an audio book of you narrating it? No, I didn't do it. That's what I got to do next. Thank you, Frank.

There's an idea. More to do during the pandemic. You could do it during COVID, during lockdown. Let me write it down. Let me write that down. You got to do it during COVID. Let me write it down. Let me write that down. You gotta do it. Gilbert, you did your audiobook, right? Yeah, I hated doing

that. Why? Come on. You're such a good reader. I guess it was reading my own writing I hated. You start criticizing yourself. I want to also recommend, you know, John, I know you're a movie buff, too. And another time we'll have you back. We'll just talk about old movies.

Oh, I love them. I'm a Criterion freak. You're a Criterion freak. I got the app. I got all the movies at home. Fellini, Bergman, Dreyer. Those Criterion discs are fantastic. And they're always running sales.

They got a couple of new box collections coming out that I'm going to buy. One's Fellini and the other one's Bergman. Are you a Maltese Falcon fan? Of course. What if I ask Gilbert to do a little Peter Lorre for you? Do a little Peter Lorre for me, Gilbert. No, it's you who bought it. You and your stupid attempt to buy it.

Kevin found out how valuable it was. No wonder he had such an easy time getting it. You idiot. You bloated fathead. Oh, my God. I could see. I was back watching the movie I love it

Yes, it also doubles as Ren From Ren and Stimpy It serves multi-purposes John, this was fun We'll talk about movies And old show business Some other time So the comic book

The movie is Critical Thinking You're going to now do An audio version of the book Yes, I wrote it down Look at that It's done The movie is critical thinking. You're going to now do an audio version of the book. Yes, I wrote it down. Look at that. It's done. We are thrilled that you came here.

Oh, what a blast. Great seeing you, Gilbert. I'll talk to you next time I'm on a plane, I promise. Yeah, next time you guys have something. You guys could just talk about The Nutty Professor for six hours. Or not. Or not. What's your favorite Jerry movie?

Next time we won't even look at each other. Money from Home. Money from Home. Huh? Money from Home. The first 3D comic comedy movie. That's your favorite what? Jerry Lewis movie.

I don't even know that movie. Gilbert, do you know that one? Money from Home. I don't know either. It's a 3D comedy. It's the first 3D comedy ever. You have to wear glasses to see it. Wow.

Are you a Nutty Professor fan? Of course. Both versions. The Eddie Murphy one and the original. I love both. You guys can just talk about... What's that, Gil? Sleepy and yawning, still the taste of wine.

Then I remember you're mine and I've got the world that's mine. Bring it, baby. Bring it. You guys can spend six hours on a flight just talking about Jerry. We want to also thank our mutual friend, Charlie Kochman, for making this possible. Oh, Charlie's the best, man. What a great man. We love Charlie. Great, great. He's doing some amazing books. Oh, yeah. John Lewis's next book. I mean, just incredible work. He's involved in everything. Yeah. Yeah. Charlie's one of those guys that he and I have followed similar paths. I worked for Mad Magazine and Topps Trading Cards. Strangely, we never

met until we met through Gilbert and Dara. He worked at Marvel too, didn't he, Charlie? I think it was DC. DC, DC. We crossed paths there briefly as well. Yeah, Charlie published my Ghetto Clown book. He's the best. Love that book.

He's the best. And he can do He's the best. He's the best. And he can do anything. Gilbert, anything else for this man? You promise to talk to him next time on a flight? Oh, yeah. He can't even promise. He can't even promise. And will you do the odd couple with John?

He promised to do the Sunshine Boys with Jason Alexander. I have the play. I'm going to scan the pages and send them to you. Next time, we're going to do a reading. And I got to recommend Freak and Sexaholics and Mambo Mouth, even though there are characters you can't do anymore in Mambo Mouth. Yeah, you can't do a lot of those characters. Plus, I don't even have the rights. My manager robbed them from me, so I can't.

Okay, we won't plug that one. And Latin History for Morons is important work. Yeah, Netflix. You can get that on Netflix. And people need to check it out. And you and I will produce Gilbert's one-man show. Oh, hell yeah. I'll direct it.

Gilbert, start doing some aerobics. We've got to get you... Uh-huh, yes. Does he need a trainer? He needs to get a trainer, get on a treadmill. We got to bring your dynamics up. Come on. I'd like like Ray Romano. No, no, no. Raymond Burr. Raymond Burr, I heard. He's the one who had the idea. He said, I want to show where I could sit. And they changed it from a detective to a crippled detective.

So he could be in a wheelchair. Yeah. So he could sit down, so he could rest. Or like a dying patient in a hospital. Right, right. Where he could lie down. How about a detective in an iron lung who solves crimes, Gil? A euthanasia cop who solves crime from his bed.

Like the bone collector. Yeah, yeah. Something like that. Oh, Gil. John, this was great, and we thank you. It was a pleasure, Frankie. Thank you, Gilbert. Great seeing you, man.

Big hugs. Thank you. And okay, this is great. And we thank you. What a pleasure, Frankie. Thank you, Gilbert. Great seeing you, man. Big hug. Thank you. And okay, this is Gilbert Gottfried. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to the man who turned down Philadelphia. Turn down Philadelphia. Academy Award winning Philadelphia to do that piece of shit. Super Mario Brothers.

You're not wrong. John, my pizambo. Millions of kids would disagree with you, Gilbert. Yeah, they would. But not the Academy. with you, Gilbert. Yeah, yeah, they would. But not the Academy. Thank you, John. Thank you. We'll do it again.

Absolutely. Much love, guys. Anda camina, camina Juan Pescado, anda camina, no seas descarado Nadie te puede mirar, porque tú estás bien salado Anda camina, camina Juan Pescado, anda camina, no seas descarado Camina, camina, camina, camina pa'lante salado Anda camina, camina Juan Pescado, anda camina, no seas descarado A mí no me dañas tú, tú sigues siendo un pelado Anda camina, camina Juan Pescado, anda camina, no seas descarado