Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - John Sebastian Encore

Episode Date: September 15, 2025

GGACP marks the recent 50th anniversary of ABC's "Welcome Back Kotter" (September 9, 1975) with this ENCORE of an 2020 interview with Rock ‘n’ Roll Hall of Famer and The Lovin’ Spoonful founder (and singer-composer of the "Welcome Back, Kotter" theme song!) John Sebastian. In this episode, John entertains Gilbert and Frank with anecdotes about Cass Elliott, Jimi Hendrix, Keith Moon and Jim Morrison and reveals the stories and inspirations behind hits like “Daydream,” “Summer in the City,” and “Do You Believe in Magic?” Also, Groucho co-hosts “Music Scene,” Richard Pryor plays the Cafe Au Go Go, Art Garfunkel nails a Spoonful cover version and John remembers legendary bandmate Zal Yanovsky. PLUS: Vivian Vance! “What’s Up, Tiger Lily?” John plays Woodstock! Boris Karloff plays Captain Hook! And Ed Sullivan introduces the “American Beatles”! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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with a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms and a weighting depth of 900 millimeters the defender 110 pushes what's possible learn more at landrover.ca Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santo Padre. Our guest this week is a musician, recording artist, soundtrack composer, Broadway composer, children's book author, TV presenter, and one of the most admired and accomplished singer-songwriters of the last six decades, as the lead singer of one of the founding members of the iconic 1960s pop rock group, The Loving Spoonful, he sold millions

of records, appeared on dozens of television shows, played to sold-out venues, and even influenced artists like Paul McCartney. John Mellencamp, and Brian Wilson, to name a few. You know his famous compositions by heart. Daydream. Do you believe in magic? You didn't have to be so nice. Darling, come home soon.

Did you ever have to make up your mind? Nashville Cats, welcome back, and the chart-topping number one hit song, Summer in the City. He's collaborated with filmmakers like Woody Allen and Francis Ford Coppola and worked with a who's who of music icons, including Cass Elliott, Crosby Stills, and Nash, Paul Simon, the Everly brothers, The Doors, Gordon Lightfoot, Jimmy Hendricks, and Bob Dylan. And his timeless tunes have been covered from everyone from Joe Cocker to Bobby Darren to Dolly Parton to Johnny Cash to Elvis Costello.

He was inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 2008. And in the year 2000, along with his loving spoonful fanmate, he was deservedly inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He's got a new album and a new documentary in the works, which he'll tell us about. Also, did I neglect to mention that Frank was especially delighted to learn that he was Italian? That's right. And had I known that John Sebastian was the fucking Guinea, I would have canceled an interview. But we're thrilled to welcome to this show, a folk and pop music ambassador, a genuine bona fide rock star,

and our only guest who could say he knew Timothy Leary, Jim Morrison, and Vivian Banks, the pride of Washington Square West, The legendary John Sebastian. What an intro, my God. Hey, John. Wonderful. Okay, so what do you want to talk about your goddamn what?

I think first we should talk about my association with Jews. Because here's the thing. My first band, the even dozen jug band, here's the guys in that band. Stefan Grossman, David Grissman, Peter Siegel, Steve Katz, Danny Laufer, Josh Rivkin, Bobby Gerland, and then Maria Dommato and Johnny Pouillese. That's me and Maria Maldor before she changed her. That's right. Maria Moldor, Midnight at the Oasis, Gil. Oh, geez, yes.

Yep, yep, yep. And so, okay, so you've been associated with Jews. Yeah. And you also, oh, before I get to this other one, I've heard rumors about it, but I don't really know for sure. And you'll straighten it out with a name the Lovin' Spoonfold comes from. It comes from a song by Mississippi John Hurt.

The song was Coffee Blues. And he would do the tune every night and carefully concealed from the little white kids that this was a song about cunnelingus. There you go, Gary. Because you know the old rumor that, yeah, that you heat up a heroin and a spoon. Right, yeah, that was wrong.

So it's not heroin, it's convalingus. Yes. That's the move. So Steely Dan has nothing on the love and spoonful. Oh, no. As far as its name, the connotation. Oh, that's right. Yeah, great stuff.

Tell us about growing up. John, you and I talked on the phone, and you grew up, you grew up here in the village. We love having New Yorkers on this show. You grew up, when you moved into the building in the village, Eleanor Roosevelt was living across the hallway? I mean, we had a whole lifetime as previously. people on bank on bank street that yeah don't let me don't want to misguide you here but then uh eventually i don't know dad somehow charmed his way into the 15th floor of washington square west and across the hall was eleanor roosevelt how about that gil yeah and and now i guess i can do away with

the questions uh how did you get into show business and were any other members of your family in show business? It's ridiculous because, as I think you already know, my dad was the greatest classical harmonica player that's ever lived. Indeed. And, but he was also like a good cook. So what had happened? He'd all of a sudden be, you know,

we'd be having dinner with Max and Sonia Liebman for his, example, you know, your show of shows. And I'd be sitting there. I'm like eight. I don't know any of these people. And Max Liebman is complaining about Melvin. It takes me, I have to wait 30 years to go, oh, now I know who Melvin was. Max Lieman was complaining about young Melvin Kaminsky. About Mel Brooks. Yeah. About that, Gil. Wow. But everybody came through that house. No, no, that was... And tell us about your mother, too.

Yeah. Mom, it came to New York originally from Dayton, but she had had this kind of like a Tina Faye life. At 16, she was already writing shows for radio in Dayton. Then she gets the big job, moves to the big town, Cincinnati. And she's there for a while. But then by 18, she's drafted to NBC in New York. Wow.

So the only way that her dad would let her go is if he came along. So my grandfather was her roommate while the first year or so when she was in New York. But she was writing funny for radio and filling in. wherever it need be. You know, sometimes a singer wouldn't show up. She could fill in. She was a credible singer. So I kind of came at this all around the corner.

By the time I knew what was going on, my mom was big pals with Vivian Vance. Who became your godmother? of come up from the Midwest together and had this real tight friendship. And Viv would very often use Mom as a writer when she needed to punch up some stories for Jack Parr. How about this, Gil? And now we all remember, for those who don't remember Vivian Vance, which is shame on you. Yes, shame on you.

She was, like, played the best friend of Lucille Ball. That's right. Ethel Mertz. Yes. She's also in one of my favorite movies, John. She's in the great race. Yeah. And, you know, she wasn't nearly as unpleasant looking as they had her in that show.

This is one of the things that always struck me as a, you know, I'm a little kid, and I'd see the show, and then here would come Viv. and Viv looks fabulous, you know. It's just a very different, a very different person that I was seeing than the folks who watched television. And I heard that did Lucy want her to get fat or at least stress her fat?

I have no real inside info on that, but I did hear that, that was in her contract, that she couldn't drop below a certain weight. That's interesting. Oh, man. Duff, that show business thing. It's tough. So she couldn't look better than Lucy.

I guess not. So they're going, you know, they're also working summer stock. And I actually did that thing of the, you know, the baby that's in the trunk. That was an amazing period. I have recently played several of the venues that, uh, they've, uh, used to play. So, John, those guys that were hanging around, obviously the gaslight cafe, most of those great clubs are gone.

I think Café Wah might be the only thing left. Yeah, I think so. Figaro is gone and so many of those wonderful places. That's right. Did you, I mean, you were obviously immersed in that world and immersed in that scene. I always think of a guy like you and I see the Cohen Brothers movie inside Lewin Davis. Oh, that was so fucked up. They didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Tell us why. Oh, Jesus. You know, first of all, I mean, some of the obvious stuff, like, you know, when Bob Dylan came in and sang the famous three songs that just like put everybody away, the attitude wasn't to somehow be better or anything. It was just his

natural skills coming through. There were so many things. They had Van Runk completely a wrong character. Van Runk was, first of all, didn't put up with any shit at all

and then also was this super sensitive guy. I mean it was a complex acting job that somebody didn't take on. I see. So artistic license. Wow.

You know, who was great in that movie though? Seriously. The guys who did the who did the design work that that all the production design made it old macdougal street there were just a couple of things

why i went wow they went to some trouble gill do you think you played some of those joints in the day we know you couldn't remember the first place you played might it have been the bitter end uh yeah i worked the bitter end the i think that was the one the other end yeah the other end was yeah i worked the bitter end other end then i think i don't know if that place is still standing that was across the street from the bitter end it was a big did you play the night owl kid yeah that was the cafe a go go that is gone that's gone uh but like you know uh the spoonful was playing the night owl until we got fired from there and then we're working the cafe bizarre which is an even like wow what a sorry ass club

This is a club where there aren't even any villagers in this club. The only people that come to this club are bust in from Midtown. And they're all people from Dayton. They're there to see the beatniks. And literally, at that time, you know, we had guys called the drag. and the drag was the guy that pulled the people in off the street, come in, see the

beatniks, you know, see you know, it was so odd and Yanofsky would run along behind one of these tourist buses pointing to himself going, I'm one, I am, I'm one, I am one.

Who did you see, John? I mean, you, you, Did you see Lenny Bruce? I mean, what comedians did you see? Unfortunately, no, Lenny Bruce. I mean, I was in tight with other people who really knew him well, like Fred Neal. Right. But I didn't see him, but I saw, well, I saw Bill Cosby in his very earliest stages.

And I saw. Did you see Richard Pryor? or carlin or so i saw prior when he was still doing cosby's material wow yeah he had no act yeah he had no act yet but yes i did i did see him and and uh you mentioned the great fred neal who was a brill building guy well i guess so uh somewhat yeah yeah fred neal wrote everybody's talking gill from midnight cowboy oh oh this guy I was really something. The King of McDougal Street.

Man, oh, man. This is a guy with this voice where all the waitresses said, do not get within 20 feet of that voice. You're going to take this guy home. You're not going to be able to resist. Really? Yeah, I know the feeling. Yeah.

Yeah. I get. I get pussy like crazy with my voice. Oh, my God, I tell you. He asks every rock musician we've had on this show. We've had Peter Asher, Tommy James, Kenny Loggins has been here. He always wants to know, the first thing Gilbert always wants to know about is the women and the groupies, don't you, Gil? Yes.

Just tell me about the pussy you got, John. We could skip. I don't give a fuck about Bob Dylan or Woody got something. Tell me about the pussy you. I'm so with you on this, you know. Here I was. I'm in Greenwich Village, like Phil Oaks on one side, Bob Dylan on the other.

Am I writing a protest song? No, I'm writing about 16-year-old girls. At a bit. How did you meet? I'm jumping ahead years here, John, but how did you meet Zal and join the mugwumps with Cass and Denny. Wow.

Well, it's a kind of a sequence, all right? First of all, I get a job with a Harry Belafonte protege by the name of Valentine Pringle, an enormous baritone who just, man, he sings those, you know, big chain gang songs. And so, wow. So anyway, I get the gig. Let's see, we went to Toronto to play the Purple Onion. then we started at the village gate and then we get a gig at the cellar door

in Washington, D.C. And Valentine is opening for an act called the Big Three. And the Big Three is Cass Elliott, Jim, not Jim E. Hendricks. Jim Hendricks, yeah, C-K-S. And Tim Rose, the guy that wrote, Hey, Joe. And so I'm coming up the stairs with Val. I've got my guitar.

I got it tuned. And here comes Cass down the stairs. She's doing Val's act. While she's coming down the stairs, she's going, see my merry oh this morning in my mind see her walking through the corn with her yellow apron on makes me lonely but it's all in my mind and valentine was not sure how to take that wow but uh uh i fell in love uh at cass and i just became really tight, and we were pals for several months.

I think I might have played the place again the same way. And then she kept saying, oh, you've got to meet Zalman, Yanofsky. You've got to meet Zolli. I said, great, yeah, fine. Well, it eventually happened that Cass invited me to join her to watch the Beatles on the first Ed Sullivan appearance that they made. And she said, oh, and you're going to really enjoy it because, well, Ringo's going to be here.

Now, I'm going through the mechanics of this going, okay, Ringo, the Beatles are going to be on Ed Sullivan, but Ringo's going to be at Cass's house. Now, the thing, if you knew Cass, you really were kind of wondering how this might be. You weren't going, no, that's not going. going to happen you were wondering how so it turns out of course i go up to her house and it is a very it's like a big six-footer jewish wringo guy and that of course was yulovsky oh it wasn't a real wringo

no but if you look at the profile you got to look at the profile there is a common bond those two men have well they they compare Jared Zalt is Harpo Marx at various points. I heard him refer to as Harpo Marx with a guitar. It's a good, you know, it's a good facsimile. It is. You know, we kind of don't, we never realized Zalman has never gotten his due. The people that admired him, you know, no, it wasn't the Rolling Stone assholes.

it was the guys like Eric Clapton. You know, that's who liked Zalman. That's praise from Caesar. How, how, so the mugwumps formed. She introduced you to Denny and Zal. And I know you weren't in the, the mugwums didn't, weren't a thing for very long. Yes, it was very quick.

It was an attempt to cash in on this Beatles idea, you know. And the only thing they didn't have, was internal songwriting, internal guitar playing. I think that was about it. So it was very fast, but it happened all at the cellar door in Washington, D.C., at a time when the cellar door was very ritzy and a place where a lot, of diplomats and politicians would come and on the weekends they would bring their children and that's what launched the mugwumps was a thing that Cass Elliott named Cass Elliott's name

now she was the first person that ever said the word teeny bopper oh interesting She called those shows the teeny bopper shows, and it just spread. Did the Mugwubs take their name from Naked Lunch? No, I think they took the name from the political party. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And the world, no, the Lovin' Spoonful got the nickname the American Beatles.

Well, you know, that happened so unexpectedly. because, okay, we get finally our offer to play the Ed Sullivan show. And, of course, we're, you know, we're snotty little beatniks, and we're going, oh, bad, these guys, you know, they don't know what we're up. You know, they probably have no idea. They probably don't even know we're not English. You know, so anyway, we're standing there with our instruments, and Ed starts to do the introduction.

and it's a florid, wonderful introduction explaining that this is the American answer to this English invasion and I remember me and Zali are staring at each other and I knew we were both thinking we have to reassess our, you know, we have to reassess what we think of at here because he really he jumped right in and said all the right stuff so yeah our hat is still off to Ed Sullivan and I heard that daydream uh influence Paul McCartney to write you know he was so gracious about that yeah good day sunshine yeah uh he I just loved it that that he copped to it He is copped to it, and Eric Clapton cop to stealing summer in the city. It's really funny how it's all coming out.

Now, Brian Wilson goes, oh, yeah, you didn't have to be so nice. What a good idea for something like good vibrations. I neglected to mention Clapton in the intro as somebody that you influenced. But McCartney was very complimentary. Absolutely. To you over the years. There's footage of John Lennon's singing Daydream at a Beatles rehearsal, and there's an image of John, excuse me,

there's an image of Paul. You can find it on the internet walking around with a spoonful album in his hand. Yes, they were fans. Yes, they were. They certainly were. And there is that recording of them trying to learn daydream. Right. And you hear them play a couple of chords in.

to it they've got the beat pretty good and then you hear George George always mutters you have to get used to it and and you hear George mutter he goes John it's a minor

that's cool it's a minor seventh John then there's this pause and you hear John go fucking tunesmiths That's the best compliment I ever got. Oh, Morning, Janice.

Morning, Janice. Okay. See, Michael House. Oh, this is it. The day you finally ask for that big promotion. that big promotion. You're in front of your mirror with your Starbucks coffee. Be confident. Assertive. Remember eye contact, but also remember to blink. Smile, but not too much. That's weird. What if you aren't any good at your job? What if they demoed you instead? Okay, don't be silly.

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Yes. Yes, George and John. But I mean that particular evening, also Keith and Peter Keith Moon and Peter Townsend at least a couple of guys from it was it was an amazing evening there just so many people that did show up we will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing

colossal podcast but first a word from our sponsor now here's here's a question i usually wait till the end but i want to ask it now yeah i'm always amazed where you know i know how to write a joke i mean i know how to put but where do songs come from and and believe me kill uh it's this much of a mystery to me as to anybody. If I could solve that mystery, come on. I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you assholes. I'd be writing more three-minute songs. Well said.

Although you and I were talking on the phone, sometimes there is a hint of inspiration. I was telling you that we had the Holland brothers on the show. Oh, so great. Tell us how that sort, how they sort of factored into composing daydream. They certainly did. The spoonful spent a summer as the opening act for the Supremes. And it was one of the coolest summers I ever had in my life.

And we're all on this big yellow school bus. And just, it, it was just a remarkable summer. a remarkable summer and there was a moment when Zalianovsky starts bugging me says you know you're really losing it

Sebastian what do you mean it goes like you've stopped writing any of the cool stuff all the cool stuff it's you're not writing that anymore now you're on to some I don't know sensitive

singer songwriter shit or something but you know you really what the hell you got to write some straight eight shit and i go straight eight shit you mean like bum bum bum baby baby bum where did i love go he says yeah like that so you know all you're asking me for is like to write a hollandosier in holland tune he goes yeah yeah that's pretty much it and and so it was uh i don't know a week or two two later that I came up with Daydream.

Oh, trying to maintain this straight eight feel. I love it. You're trying to imitate Holland, Dozier, Holland. I'm trying to imitate baby love. Yeah. And you wind up writing a song that influences Paul to write Good Day Sunshine. I know. So we have a path here, A to B to C.

It's fascinating. Absolutely. Did he wave, speaking of Holland, Dozier Holland, did he wave play any role in the composition of do you believe in magic? absolutely hold on and the bank grabs his guitar oh hold on wow

see because here's the thing you know heat wave had this thing and so these chords that were climbed was so fascinated by those chords that I just kept playing them. I figured out a way to play them on the auto harp by retuning the auto harp.

And that really was the dawn of, do you believe in magic? How about that, Gil? Boy, that's, there's an old expression in the business, steal from the best. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And you didn't have to be so nice, influenced Brian. I heard it was God Only Knows. Well, I think it was mainly the idea that a song would have a lead voice that's going like, you know, the lead voice.

You didn't have to be so, be so nice. I wouldn't like you, wouldn't like you anyway. So like that idea of the background vocals trailing the lead vocal, I think, might have been the core of what Brian was reacting to. Which daydream cover do you like? Do you like Bobby Darren's, Art Garfunkels, Doris Day covered it? Doris Day you really

you can't put that down boy no no she's easy to make fun of until as a musician you start to go wow she's always in the center of the note she's impressive there were so many good versions of that

yeah but I have to say for accuracy nobody touches art guard Garfunkel. Really? Garfunkel did a version for a children's album. And it was so, so right on. And, you know, and he'd go, like, you know,

so is it what a day for a day dream? Or is it what a day for a day dream? You know, he would really, really take it apart. So, yeah, he kills it. He's the man When it comes to daydream I got a quick question for you John from a listener Because I told you we throw some of these at you

Sure Paul Ekstrom John I adore your music When you are composing a song How do you know that it's not a melody You may have heard before? Oh, don't don't pay any attention to that voice That's telling you Don't listen to that voice

Yeah that's all finish the song and then go, how much is it like got a date for an angel? Oh, it's only one note away. I remember hearing Billy Joel in an interview say he wrote one song he was really proud of. He thought it was his best word. And then he was listening to the radio and said,

oh, that's the song. Yeah. Well, Neil Sedaka said, that Billy Joel, was it moving out or it was something where he, I think it was, I think it was the opening of Neil Sudaka's Love Will Keep Us Together. And he approached Billy Joel in a restaurant and said, you borrowed my opening for your song. I think I have that right. Speaking of covers, by the way, John, Elvis Costello's cover of rainbows all over your blues is wonderful. It is. It is. As is his cover of a favorite Sebastian song

of mine, which is the room nobody lives in. That was really wonderful to have that song covered. God, I love that song. I really was glad he did that. Yeah. Really, really beautiful. How does your brother Mark factor into the composition of Summer in the City? Well, Mark essentially did the heavy lifting. I'm kind of a I'm kind of an also ran on that because what happened was my brother

he comes up with the song and it's pretty much sort of let's see the summer in the city you know it's going to get hot but the shadows of the buildings are the only shady spot

but a night it's different world. I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. What was that? And so anyway, that essentially the chorus was Marx. And I had to fool around with it because I felt like it was so exciting when the thing went, these two dominant chords one on top of the other was so cool but that it needed something really tense before that happened

and that was where I sort of was mainly imitating night on Bald Mountain that that was the really that oh yeah that that you know that it was just the mood of that beginning of the down and the down and the down And to me, and it was sort of like, I don't know, I don't know, you know, kind of underachieving in trying to get the same effect. Not only is it a great song, it's a great record summer in the city. Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. And I can't wait any longer.

First, tell me about how you were asked to do the music for the movie, Watch Up Tiger Lily. Gilbert's favorite. Yes. I love it. I love it. Well, you know, that just sort of, it happened for two reasons. One was that I was very familiar with Woody Allen's act. I'd never met him.

but I used to go to the bitter end almost weekly and he was playing there very, very regularly during that time and I just thought this was one of the funniest things I'd ever seen and I would ask some of my friends, especially my mom's friends, remember, they're writers, these are funny people and almost to a person they went, no, no, he's creepy, no, that's I don't know the guy's kind of creepy

so it was I used to use him as a temp as a kind of a measuring stick of I don't know what I was even measuring but it was so interesting how generations separated on Woody Allen so anyway

I hadn't met him but my manager was good friends with his managers Rollins and Jaffe Oh, yeah. Were kind of, they were occasionally advising our manager, Bob Cavallo, and they were all pals. And so I don't know quite, I kind of, I make this up.

But the way it seems to me was like they had a movie that was all goofy and kind of kind of kooky. we don't do really kooky we don't know kooky but these these village boys they're kind of cookie we know they're kooky so maybe we could get them to write it well originally it wasn't even called uh it was originally called pow that's why that song pow exists because originally that was going to be the title of the movie Okay. Tell me what to stop. One, two, three.

I've always been the guy with the finger and it knows when the passport picture gets taken. That's right. When the big guy takes out stealing chicken on the one cord hold the bacon. When they drop a piano from the 47th floor on the guy underneath looking up. When the title weight strikes a hundred miles at sea, I'm out on the rail. I'll throw it up. I mean, you get... Wee cap, pal!

So I wouldn't have been to any how. Fix it up and then a holy cow. If those folks can see me now. Yeah. I've been waiting years to be able to sing that. To sing that. I love that song. Well, you know, I got to.

say that the whole reason I wrote it was to make Yanofsky laugh. Many of the spoonful songs with funny lyrics were totally just to get Yanofsky laughing. That's great. Yeah. You know, you come from a comedy background, so you come by it naturally. No, I mean, I used to sit with my mother late at night because she'd want to watch the talk shows because maybe Viv had been on or something and but and she would go through and there'd be a joke and another joke and another joke and another joke with a small laugh and she'd say you see yeah he went for four what do you mean mom well you really can't you got a subject you got to do three jokes You can't go for jokes.

So all of the stuff was going in, and it came out in songwriting. Speaking of the spoonful and comedy, John, I got another question from a listener, Scott Mackin. I love all your records, John. Thank you for the work. Thank you for the art. I always read that the spoonful

were approached to be the original monkeys. Yeah. What's the truth behind that? Well, it is true, but, you know, I had to be reminded of this. That's how teensy it seemed to us. It really did. Oh, do you want to pretend you're a rock and roll band on television and we write the songs and you just act? And boy, oh boy, did that sound dreary to us? So, I mean, really, I don't think it was a 10-minute conversation. You know, in retrospect,

people go, oh, this must have been a big thing. You got turned down or you didn't take the job or something. No, it was just that, well, here's one thing to do. Here's be the monkeys. No, no, that doesn't sound good. What else do you got? So it just happened in a very casual way. I'm so glad.

Interesting, the road not taken. Speaking of comedians, you worked with, groucho marks very briefly uh mainly uh groucho introduced the spoonful on uh boy i don't know which one of those big variety shows it was it was music scene hosted by david steinberg oh great yeah there you go and phil silvers also introduced the spoonful on another one of those saying. Hey Gilbert, this man has been introduced by Groucho, Phil Silvers, Ed Sullivan, Sammy Davis, and now Gilbert Gottfried. That's big. And you met Boris Karloff.

Unbelievable. And I was really little, too. You've got to remember now. Okay, so Aunt Vivian Vance somehow gets us tickets to Peter Pan. Now, this. This isn't the Mary Martin Peter Pan. This is the Gene Arthur Peter Pan, all right? So I didn't know there was a Gene Arthur Peter Pan. That was really, that was the first on Broadway, I do think. Wow. Yeah. And Captain Hook is Boris Karloff.

And he is scary as shit. And I am watching this in, you know, my little five-year-old, I'm being myself practically. And after the play, I later went, wow, Viv worked this out. Vivian obviously had us as Persona Grata to go back and meet the cast. Well, who was there was Boris Karloff. He's still in full Captain Hook makeup. And he has, somebody has told him my name.

and he leans in on me and goes hello jb and i swear to god i thought is he still captain hook i can't tell i really can't tell wow gill jeez now i also see uh you were influenced by lon cheney junior well you know uh i got fascinated uh by the time i was about 12, you know, you get real ghoulish. And so then I had become fascinated by not only horror movies, but at that point, if you will recall, there were horror magazines. Yes, famous monsters of film land. I used to get it every month.

And that's where you learned about how Lon Cheney had taken these little fish hooks and planted them in his mouth and run it down the side of his cheek underneath some actor's putty and then he could pull

the the fish hooks and it would make this horrible gruesome grimace and that's when the when the fandom of the opera does that turn away from the organ and and you know that's when that's the

discover moment and he does this thing you don't see it because he's got these this fishing hook line down down his arm and he's he pulls it and that's what makes the grimace okay so i hear this and i go wow i wonder if i could make a grimace like that So, so I just happened to be in my, the garage, and I notice, Hey, here's some putty. Well, let's take this. It's boat putty, okay? Boat putty.

All right. Puddy for a boat. That's right. So I'm putting this stuff on my face and I, oh, wow, it's really working. Now that's making the cheekbones enormous, it really looks like. like it, oh my God, it's starting to sting. Now it's really starting to burn. I think my grandfather had to help me out with, I mean, it was, it was gruesome. We had to use like, uh, uh, paint thinner and stuff to get it off. It was horrible. Gil, I'm trying to wrap my mind around

that the leader of the love and spoonful is a monster kid. But it sounds, it sounds as if he is most definitely and it got me into makeup so by the time i was in prep school everybody thought i was gay john we've asked every musician that we've had on this show i was telling you you know peter asher tommy james paul williams uh two things yeah remember hearing your a song an original song on the radio for the first time number one number one and number two what was it like hearing a pop song with your name in it the first time you heard Creek alley okay let's go for a question number one yeah um uh what was what was question number one hearing your song on the radio for the first time uh the spoonful had uh made the trip out to los angeles and it really was uh uh

some of our first uh visits to california or or any of that you know any of that and uh we're we had just rented what may have been our first renter car so we rent the the car we're riding towards los angeles uh and uh california girls comes on the radio and we're already Zali's starting to hit me. This is one of the ways he would express excitement. And then the next thing that comes on is, do you believe in magic? Whereupon Yanofsky pounces on me from the backseat, and he's hitting me relentlessly.

And then he and Steve are hitting each other. And it was just like a... A convertible full of guys just whacking each other on the shoulder and the back. And, like, so amazing to actually have it come over the radio. You knew you'd arrived, huh? Yeah, that's right. And go ahead, Yel. No, I just, because you already let me sing.

But a song that I love of yours was for the movie, you're a big boy now. If I could hear some of that. Let's see. I know there's things you never thought before that have to do with walking out old doors. You've been prepared as long as time allowed. Well, I don't know how, but you're a big boy now. know the girls They're taking notice of you

They say your hair It's getting curly too So shave today You shave tomorrow as well You'll run by you And not a classroom bell And I don't know how But you're a big boy now

Thank you. Thank you so much. That's a fun movie, too. It was a fun movie. Yeah, yeah. Early Coppola picture. That's right. Tell us about Woodstock, John.

You weren't scheduled to perform. You really went there to see buddies. Yeah, and this is the question that you can imagine me throwing the lasso up over the tranceom and beginning to pull so that I can strangle myself and not answer another question about fucking woodstock.

We don't have to talk about it. No, no, it's okay. It was an amazing accident and it happened because I had heard from Paul Rothschild the wonderful producer for me and Janice Joplin and the Doors, that there was going to be a rather wonderful show happen somewhere in upstate New York. And when they finally got it located, I simply went to the airport.

I didn't have any idea how I was going to get there. But amazing, amazing, one of the 11th Spoonfuls roadies was road managing, was road managing the incredible string band and was loading a helicopter outside the Albany airport to go to Woodstock. I gesture to him madly through a, you know, there was a big window you could look at. out in those days. He sees who it is and just just come on down onto the tarmac, which you can also do. I go around the corner to the door that opens down onto the tarmac, and I go, and he says, you're trying to get to Woodstock. That's right. He goes, this is your only chance, John. Get in this helicopter. And I did. And that I saw what you all. see when you go to the movie to see that that overview of like where it's all sleeping bags

and tents and Volkswagen buses you can't see any ground anywhere and you wound up in you wound up in the show quite by accident yes uh I had been having a lovely time uh now Saturday had come I ended up on the stage you got to remember also that's secure was so different at that time. Everybody knew each other. Nobody had to hide, you know. So I would just go over and hang with various friends. And then there was a moment when I was on stage and Michael was saying,

you know, we got to sweep the stage. we can't put electric acts on here. But we could just use, like, a guy who could hold them with one guitar. And I'm agreeing with all of this. We're all staring out at the crowd, remember? And I'm saying, yeah, yeah. And then I look around and I realize they're both looking at me. And I say, fellas, I didn't even bring a guitar.

And Michael says, well, you have a few minutes to find one. And that was my, that was my, I ran down into the sort of basement below the stage where Timmy Harden was sitting in a way relaxed mode. Great, Tim Gordon. Yes, I said, Timmy. Well, I had been, you know, remember, I'd already played with him for a couple of years. Sure. So I could ask him, can I borrow your wonderful harmony sovereign?

And I did. And got up there. did a little set. Were you feeling no pain during that set, John? I couldn't describe it as painful. No, everybody. Was it the blue acid or the purple acid? You know, everybody really wants me to be more stone than I was.

And I kind of went along with it very often. Print the legend, John. So, you know, I'm a New York. guy and new york guys are cautious and so when i got offered the whatever little blue pill i was offered i said well that's very nice and i broke it up into a couple pieces and i took a little bit now remember nobody's told me that you're going to you know perform before the biggest audience you've ever even seen, not even, you know. Yeah. So I'm just glad it went as well as it did. I only forgot one verse. It's legendary and you're in the movie. I know. And the weather started acting up when

you were out there. Well, yeah. It had been acting up. And this is the part that like, who could Who could predict that the sun came out as I'm finishing my set? It looked crazy good. I'm going to read you something from a fan, John, if I have a minute. This is from Carla Haler, and she is a schoolteacher. We do this thing called Grill the Guest. We tell our listeners who's coming on ahead of time. She writes, oh, my God, oh my God, the very first concert I ever went to,

was John Sebastian live at the South Shore Music Circus and Cohasset. Yay. Massachusetts. He saw security trying to give the bums rush to someone, and he asked him to stop and invited all the people who are listening from up in the woods to come on down. My brother immediately came home. We got me, and we sat in the aisle as John performed the four of us. I love that Garth Williams, illustrator of classics like Charlotte's Webb, was his godfather,

and I actually own a copy of J.B.'s harmonica. Your children's book, which you wrote and Gartha illustrated. Please thank John for being a part of my life and let him know this old teacher still has a crush on him all these decades later. That's wonderful. That's wonderful. Isn't that sweet? That really is, yeah. You've influenced generations, John.

You have to tell us, this is a wild card question. Keith Moon. Yeah. We had Peter Noon on the show a couple of months ago. Remember, Gil, it's serious? Yes. And Peter regaled us with some Keith Moon stories. You are on Keith Moon's only solo album. Yes.

Everybody was on that album. Ringo, our friend Howard Kalin, Joe Walsh, Dick Dale, Ricky Nelson. Ron Koss. Who's that? A guy you wouldn't know, Ron Koss, who is actually... He plays the backbeat on Welcome Back. Welcome Back. Like beautifully.

because he'd been, he'd worked for Motown. A Polish guy, by the way. The only other Polish guy beside the bass player that worked at Motown was Ronnie Koss. Gilbert, even a young Miguel Ferrer, the future actor, Jose Ferrer's son, is on that record.

I don't quite know why. What was your experience? I want to ask you, too, about playing with Hendricks on Timothy Leary's album, which is surreal. But first, tell us something about Keith Moon. Well, you've got to remember that Keith really would tone it down for Catherine and I. He was in love with any incredibly beautiful blonde,

and Catherine really fit the bill like crazy. Your wife? Yes. Yes. And so we actually went and stayed with Keith and Mrs. Moon. uh in in england when when we went and uh when he came to the united states he he kind of paid me back by showing up unannounced at our little house in laurel canyon catherine and i are are sort of starting to we're sitting in front of the fireplace we're starting to get in the mood the door knocks

I open I go to the door I open it and not only is Keith standing there within a kind of a wonderful apologetic English grin but behind him is the entire

Shanana in the in the gold lame Gil in the gold lamay how bizarre yeah yeah

and and just to show you what a different guy he could be he stayed in our house and he cooked us a beautiful Indian meal I mean a complex Indian meal

that was really delicious so that's one of those things you didn't see that coming so you didn't see a lot of bad behavior from Keith of close well it wasn't that I didn't see any, but, uh, okay, how about this?

So, uh, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, got and kicked out of every decent hotel in San Francisco. So now they're at this funky little motel, you know, where you walk outside your room and you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're on a porch, kind of. So, uh, one of the things, uh, the qualities of that room was that they had, big picture windows that looked out on these terraces. Well, at that time, Peter Townsend was wearing these white boiler suits. So, and at that time, Peter and Keith's pranks on each other were nonstop. So Keith stole one of Peter's boiler suits, and he brought it to us because he knew that we had,

all of our tie-dying dyes with us, and we tie-died Peter's boiler suit. And then Keith crawled out on the terrace and got on the picture window and taped the boiler suit to the picture window. So now, when Peter wakes up, he gets about four seconds of being horrified, he thinks that some guy is about to jump into his room.

As it happened, there had been some kind of motorcycle guys who had gotten mad at him because they thought he was looking at their girl. No, no, your girl was looking at him. But they had made threats, and he thought that he was going to get beat up. What about jamming with Hendricks on the, on the Timothy Leary album, which is mind-blowing.

Really, really, not as much of a thing as, you know, first of all, I knew him as Jimmy James, all right? And he was a very modest, soft-spoken man. This is what folks don't know about the guy who flicks his tongue out and plays with his teeth and all that stuff. he was a mild-mannered guy. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. Hit pause on whatever you're listening to and hit play on your next adventure.

This fall get double points on every qualified stay. Life's the trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. Hi, buddy. Who's the best? You are. I wish I could spend all day with you instead. Uh, Dave, you're off mute. Hey, happens to the best of us. Enjoy some goldfish cheddar crackers. Goldfish have short memories. Be like goldfish. Let me ask you about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2000, John, because you can find the video of you guys being inducted by Mellencamp on video. And it's very touching. I mean, you thank a lot.

lot of people who helped you along the way. Yeah. And you get choked up talking about people like Paul Rothschild and Cass Elliott, who you refer to as your Jewish angel. You thanked Lieber and Stoller. You even thanked Henry at Manny's guitar shop. That's right. That's right.

Who's more important than Henry Goldrich? Come on. The late lamented Manny's. Oh, but hey, how long do you think it's? been since I called Henry Goldrich. I called him yesterday. You did? Yep. Wow.

I called him because I wanted to let him know that he gets a kind of a credit and a thank you on this new album that me and Arlen Roth just finished up. Arlen Roth said, have you ever done like a spoonful

instrumental album? And I said, no. He goes, we should do that and we ended up doing it when is that coming out when can we look forward to that well i think it's going to be held until it's done but i think it'll be held until spring and you were a big fan of like the whole rat pack those type singers well this uh uh it might be a a misguide uh i i was so much more interested in fat's domino. I really was.

And I understand that Sinatra, I understand he's the greatest that's ever lived, but I like Dean Martin better. We like Dean Martin better too. John, but going back to that rock and roll induction. By the way, doing research, I found

that Zal was in National Ampoun's Lemmings. Yes, that's right. off-Broadway, which I loved, with Belushi doing the Cocker. And Chevy Chase just hating him, just couldn't stand to be in the room. Oh, no. And he was always that way. And he maintained that relationship with Chevy Chase forever. Yeah.

You know, it's, it's bittersweet to watch you guys up there. You're playing for the first time. You played a couple of tunes with the spoonful for the first time in many years. and it was the year 2000 and sadly Zal would be gone only two years later. Yes. And you know, tell us about your friendship,

what he meant to you, not only as an artist, but what he meant to the spoonful success. Because people should remember him. He was really not only a wonderful guitarist, but a legendary rock and roll character. Absolutely. And really,

there's never going to be anybody like that guy my assessment is the love and spoonful I don't know if it would have happened without Zali I mean sure I could write some cool songs and

play a good solid foundational type guitar but what Yanofsky was doing I think Clapton even said it he's playing the same licks that I'm playing, but he crosses his eyes and sticks his tongue out. This listener, Jeffrey Bender, writes, I grew up into town in Canada called Kingston, and your former bandmate,

Zaliyonovsky owned a restaurant there called Shea Piggy. Yes. We went on a date with a beautiful girl. I was on a date with a beautiful girl and his establishment and he stopped at our table. He said our food looked great. He took a bite and he winked at my date with an uga-buga. and kept on trucking.

That's right. Jewish rock star, Gilbert. Now, and I heard that Zally was, he would just launch into Jewish songs. Yes, that could happen. That could happen. And, you know, because he knew Yiddish, any passable Hebrew as a result of being on a kibbutz.

His dad, his dad thought, he was going to hell, so he'd send him to Israel to be on a kibbutz. Yalovsky just had fun with it, and I think he broke a tractor or something, and they sent him home.

Before we get to the final plugs, John, one question about your dad from Bill Cates. I feel not enough of the world knows about John's father, who's name is also John Sebastian, his classical harmonica playing rival Larry Adler and all the other

greats. It creams Larry Adler. It creams Larry Ash. Come on. It kicks Larry Adler's ass. It does. Can you talk a little bit about him and will there be an accessible collection of his stellar recordings? Well, you know, it's funny that

there's some kind of kind of, I don't know what you'd call it. Like. Revival. or renewed interest? Yeah. What happened was that I got a call that really yesterday,

I got a call from a classical music company that released one of Dad's albums and said, let's release more. And so we are hopefully going to be able to release Dad's Bach album, John Sebastian plays Bach, which is really remarkable and several other albums of dads. Well, we should tell our listeners who love music to do the research into your dad. I mean, he played with Leonard Bernstein.

You know, he did recital at Town Hall. I mean, he did some wonderful things in his career. You were telling me on the phone that, of course, he was groomed to be a banker. well disappointed his parents what it was was his dad was the banker and and had really been so happy because his son was magna cum laude from haverford he had all these credits he was going to be uh you know be uh in the foreign service and uh and then he comes back from rome after a summer of like hanging out with Picasso and Garth Williams and goes,

no, I'm going to play this little instrument in my pocket. If people go on YouTube, there are some of his recordings. There's a concerto from 1963, Maliguanas on YouTube. People can find it. People who are hardcore music fans should really dig your dad's work. And before we get to the plugs, John, some of your solo albums, I mean, I used to have the Welcome Back record on vinyl. Yeah.

There's some wonderful tunes on that. That didn't occur to Warner Brothers. Yeah. I like that record very much. And also we'll recommend the John B. Sebastian, your debut solo album. Good album. Which I like very much. Produced by Paul Rothschild.

Yeah. And the album you did with your pal David Christman in 2007, satisfied. What? That's a lot of fun. A lot of fun. That's a terrific. record and when you wrote the song welcome back i heard they had to change the title yes uh originally that show was called cotter right and uh i was brought in they said you know you know can you

come up with something on this i i wrote a song that night and and came back with it the next day And, you know, they were, they were awed by the fact that I could get it that fast. They, in fact, they said, you know, how did you finish that fast? And I said, you know, fellas, you're forgetting something, which is that I was a sweat hog. Oh, wow. As a, as a, as a, as a dyslexic kid, I was always the. guy that got the report card, John seems to be an intelligent boy. That was the first part of the sentence.

That's where we met, John, in 2011 at the TV Land Awards. Oh, beat down. Welcome Back. Carter was getting an award. I was writing on that show. And for anyone who forget, welcome back, your dreams are your ticket out. Very good, Bill. Did you deal with the legendary James Comack on that show?

No, actually, Alan Sachs was the primary guy. Comac got the credit, but Sachs did the work. Gotcha. And what about Gabe Kaplan? Did you work with him at all? Well, I certainly met him, and in later years, of course, we would get paired up very often. Where, what a natural.

We get, you know, we get him. And you have Sebastian open. So I did get it. And it was a very funny sequence that would always happen because I'd get dressed up. I'd do the opener. I'd change my clothes. I'd get, you know, be going downstairs in the elevator.

And all of a sudden, here's, he's actually. got a tux on now, and I didn't know it, but he is a very serious gambler. And so he would do comedy shows at casinos just so that he could go and gamble. Oh, he made a fortune playing poker. Yeah, yeah. He did very well for himself. Did you work with Rodney Dangerfield or open for him?

I opened for Rodney, yes. And Rodney, it was, I loved. Rodney. Rodney came back before I went on and said, so I know you've never, you know, been at one of my shows, but, you know, it's a rough, it's a rough crowd. And, geez, I, you know, he's just sort of fumbling for something to say, I'm really sorry, you have to open for me is essentially what he was saying. But he was so right because I went out there and like I, it's the sound starts after about 10 minutes. I can't quite discern.

Oh, the show, uh, the stage. Get the fuck off the stage. So, so, uh, having, I knew I had Rodney's support on this. And so I said, folks, I've been hired to play 40 minutes before Rodney does his act. But if you piss me off, I'm going long. Oh, great. I'm sorry you and Gilbert never got to share a bill. Ah, me too.

Let's thank some people here, Gilbert. Our friend Jim Delacroche, who made this possible. Yes. May I say in 335 shows, we've now. never had more cooperation and help that we got from Jim. Absolutely. And he's an angel and Pathfinder management. We will thank the engineer, the wonderful engineer here.

Robert Fraza. Robert Fraza with two Z's. Lizzie Van and Dave Bennett. Bendett. Benet. He's been right. Okay. The guy starts as my manager.

Two weeks later, I have Welcome Back Cotter. so that worked out well very nice and uh tell us about the bearsville theater complex john and what's going on with that well this has been rather remarkable now remember i i've been living in this town since 76 and various people at various times after the passing of albert grossman tried to sort of fix things up you know a little paint and uh maybe a uh uh airwick in the basement or something but uh Lizzie Van really went after this like it was a heritage property and has really treated it that way. And we're trying to work out whatever we can in the way of live concerts or televised concerts or whatever is possible. Obviously, your Woodstock experience meant enough to you that you settled there for many years.

Absolutely. I came up here. Bob Dylan invited me up here. I think he wanted me to be a bass player at the time. And I ended up there with Albert Grossman and him in that cool little house on the top of the hill. You made a life. So visit for our listeners, visit bearsville like a bear, bearsville theater.com. And we'll plug Jim's memoir, which is coming in 2021. Maximum PR. I tell you. I love the title. John, as Abbas once sang, thank you for the music. Thank you very much for your interest. It means so much to so many people. I barely got into the questions that we had for you.

I have about 40 of them. I was only able to read five. Well, Gilbert, and you and I should do this again sometime. Well, we will. I think we probably got to about one-third of the Sebastian anecdotes. That's right. I haven't even gotten to the part where Lightning Hopkins is obviously going up to my mother's house. Can you tell us one thing about Jim Morrison before we go?

Not as exciting as one might think. Really? Yeah. Disappointing. No, no. Well, here's what it was. Paul Rothschild. And I don't say this as a brag.

because, you know, how famous the doors are in retrospect compared to the spoonful. But at the time, Paul felt that he might be able to get more cooperation from Jim if I was there because I had more of a reputation as just like a regular musician. Like not a guy with 18 women crawling on his back Yeah, so it did actually have somewhat that effect I mean, I don't know whether it was just that he had you know He was a sober boy that day

But he was very cooperative I was excited out of my mind Because the base player is Lonnie Mac. And that, to me, was the big stuff. Well, that is you, for all our listeners who ever wondered, that is John

playing that wonderful harmonica on Roadhouse Blues. And we could keep talking to you for hours because I have like 15 more cards about your career. But in the interest of time, I also want to wish a happy

birthday to our friend John Murray, our engineer who has done incredible things for this show. Oh, happy birthday. John, yeah. Thanks. Thanks a lot, guys. And Gil, do you want John to take us out maybe with one other tune? If he's feeling generous,

what do you think? Okay. Oh, geez. So many. How do you feel, John? Your choice. Okay, we're going to do a duet, Gil. Okay. I'll do the intro to you. You didn't have to be so nice. And then we'll do it. Okay. I'll see how many words I know of it.

Okay. Gil, don't fuck this up. Yeah. You didn't have to be so nice. I would have liked you anyway. If you had asked me once or twice and gone about your quiet way. Today said the time was right for me to follow you.

I knew I'd find you in a day or two. And it's true. You didn't have to be so nice. I would have liked you anyway. If you had to ask me once or twice, and gone to your quiet way John

John Murray I tried to give you a birthday present by having John Sebastian sing but you got a Gilbert Gottfried vocal It's great Which is much more valuable That's right You know it And that was funny

John, you are a sport. You're a legend. We can't thank you enough for this. You bet. We will look for the album and the documentary, and boy, do you need a documentary about your life? I heard someone refer to you as the zealig of popular music. I love the term. I love the term. Gil, what do you think? Oh, well, I mean, to be able to sing with you, especially pop. Because, I mean, I remember the words that that song stuck with me. You really do, too.

Not very many people, too. You know, when Jim, when John's manager reached out to me about John, and of course, John has been on our list, I said, you won't believe the timing of this, because Gil, we did an episode last week, and Gil was singing, Pau, from, what's up, Tiger Lily. So it was meant to be.

It was Kismet. And I still want to say, I'm pissed, having to interview a fucking guinea. So next week we'll be, next week we'll be interviewing

the Prime Minister of Israel. Oh, that a boy. But an honor working with you, John. Well, thank you, Gilbert. I really have enjoyed myself and I look forward to another chance to do it some more.

John, our listeners will leave this one up. We got a big response on Patreon, and we can't thank you enough. And these songs will sustain us for the rest of our days. My pleasure. My pleasure. So this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santo Padre, and the great John Sebastian.

How is it you get the Santo Padre and the matzagriste in the same show? Gilbert, if you only knew what that meant. Ciao, Sebastiano Pugliesi. See. If the music is groovy It makes you feel happy Like an old-time movie I'll tell you about the magic and a free of soul

But it's like trying to tell a stranger about a rock and roll Oh, you believe in magic Don't bother to choose If it's a jazz band music Or rhythm and blues just go and listen It'll start with a smile It'll wipe off your face No matter how hard you track

You keep starting to happen and you can't see you find how you got there. So just blow your mind. You keep the living in magic, come along with me. We'll dance until morning, there's just you and me, and maybe, If the music is right, I'll meet you tomorrow so late at night. And look, go to advancing, maybe then you'll see how the magic's in the music and the music's in me, yeah. Do you believe in magic?

Yeah, believe in the magic of the younger soul. Believe in the magic of a rock and roll. Believe in the magic that can set you free. Oh, I'm talking about Maddie, like I believe in Madagin, like I believe, a believer, like I do believe, believe, believe in a belief,