Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Lost and Forgotten Amusement Parks w/ Dave Cobb and Robert Coker

Episode Date: August 5, 2025

Frank welcomes theme park experience designer Dave Cobb ("Men in Black: Alien Attack") and attraction show writer and author Robert Coker ("Roller Coasters: A Thrill Seeker's Guide to the Ultimate Scream Machines") for an in-depth look at the fascinating histories of failed and forgotten amusement parks, including Freedomland USA, The Land of Oz, Pacific Ocean Park, Hanna-Barbera Land and The World of Sid & Marty Krofft, among others. Also in this episode: Soupy Sales hosts a beauty pageant, Grizzly Adams buys a carousel, Dave makes his pitch to Steven Spielberg and Robert reveals his favorite roller coasters. PLUS: The Escalator to Nowhere! The genius of Paul Frees! "Kiss Meets The Phantom of the Park"! All aboard the Banana Train! And the secret origin of Steppenwolf's "Magic Carpet Ride"? Subscribe now on  Apple ⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fun-for-all-ages-with-frank-santopadre/id1824012922⁠⁠ Spotify ⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/18EQJNDwlYMUSh2uXD6Mu6?si=97966f6f8c474bc9⁠⁠ Amazon ⁠⁠https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/13b5ed88-d28d-4f0c-a65e-8b32eecd80f6/fun-for-all-ages-with-frank-santopadre⁠⁠ YouTube ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgvlbF41NLLPvsrcZ9XIsYKkH_HvUXHSG⁠⁠ iHeart ⁠⁠https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-fun-for-all-ages-with-fran-283612643/⁠⁠ TuneIn ⁠⁠http://tun.in/pxOWO Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Palisades, no coast to coast, wear a dime, buys the most Palisades, amusement park, swings all day and after dark Ride the coaster, get cool in the waves, in the pool, you'll have fun, so come on over. Hi, it's Frank Santropadre and you are listening to Fun For All Ages, the podcast for pop culture obsessives like me, like you, and like the two gentlemen we're joined by this week. And we're coming to you from City Vox Studios in New York City, where it's a brisk and bracing 117 degrees.

Oh, boy. You guys seen the Twilight Zone movie? The Twilight Zone movie, the Twilight Zone episode with Lois Nettleton. You know that one, the Midnight Sun, where the Earth is hurtling toward the sun? That's what New York is like today. Yikes.

Oh man. Oh yeah. I shouldn't tell you how beautiful it is in LA right now. Don't rub it in. Don't rub it in, Robert. Our obsession this week, or shall I say my obsession is timely. As I said, since we're recording this just a few days after the start of summer, lost and forgotten amusement parks,

which is something I've been fascinated by for years. But despite my usual weeks and weeks of research, it's still a relatively new area for me. So here to better educate me are two multi-talented experts and new friends and two guys who may be even more obsessive than I am, if that's possible. Dave Cobb has spent three decades designing immersive stories for theme parks,

rides, attractions, resorts, cruise ships, museums, live shows, and events, with diverse clients including Cirque du Soleil, Sony, Paramount Studios, and even the San Diego Zoo. Among his creations are the interactive and groundbreaking Men in Black Dark Ride at Universal Studios Florida. Numerous thrill attractions for Paramount Parks across North America at Kings Island, Kings

Dominion, California's Great Adventure and Canada's Wonderland. He was also the primary park-wide creative director of the award-winning project Warner Brothers World Abu Dhabi, which he's going to tell us about, which according to the Guinness Book of World Records is the largest indoor theme park in the world. And Robert Coker is a theme park enthusiast and senior show writer for the themed entertainment design company Super 78 Studios. He's designed guest experiences and developed scripts for the Flying Theater Attractions Alpha Flight and Wings Over Washington, as well as the SpongeBob Subpants Adventure. I mean, you need to know about that one too. An interactive 4D attraction for Moody Gardens in Texas and

the Forbidden Caves, a 3D media-based immersion tunnel attraction at Belgium's Babajanland. Did I get that? Yeah, friend club Babajanland. Babajanland. Yeah, I know. Theme park. Recently helped develop multiple Yeah, I know. Theme Park. Recently, he helped develop multiple attractions for the Mattel Adventure Park,

now under construction in Glendale, Arizona. His lifelong passion for amusement parks and roller coasters led to the creation of his bestselling book, Roller Coaster's A Thrill Seekers Guide to the Ultimate Scream Machines. And Robert is also the cohost of the theme park podcast, Season Pass, and the creator of the website,

thrillride.com. Gentlemen, as I used to say at the old show, at least some of those things must be true. And by the way, I have to say really quickly, one of the best episodes of the Season Pass is a two-parter that is as in-depth an analysis of a ride and attraction creation for men in black. And if you have any interest in themed entertainment,

I urge you to listen to it. It's like a college-level seminar on how to build a theme park ride. It's fantastic. And I wasn't on that interview, so. That was a lot of fun. Yeah, that was early on. It was one of the first podcasts I ever did, actually.

That was a lot of fun. Is that your crowning achievement, Dave, that so far in your career the the men I think that's yeah, I think pretty much that Well, it's hard to top that it's pretty incredible Well, we're gonna we'll plug at the end of the show to your your wonderful You're wonderful that that ride as well as your wonderful podcast podcast Robert But I think our listeners would be interested to know how You guys how someone finds themselves in such an exotic fascinating line of work in the first place podcast, Robert, but I think our listeners would be interested to know how you guys, how someone finds themselves in such an exotic, fascinating line of work in the first place.

Because you guys, I did a lot of research. We obviously, we talked on the phone, there was a little pre-interview portion of this, and we talked and I got to know you guys just a little bit. But I'm just fascinated that you guys have made a career out of this, both of you, wonderful careers. So I'm just gonna start with you, Dave. I know you're a native Los Angelino, I know you went to film school, but how did you wind up designing rides and attractions? Well, I started out during high school and college,

my summer job and like weekend and day job was as a tour guide at Universal Studios here for the sitting on the trams and going through the back lot. And so I did that for a long time and was in film school at the same time. And a couple of big things happened while I was in film school. One or two of the big first big writer strikes happened. And then also, I wanted to go specifically into special effects and special effects and photography and models and miniatures and that kind of thing.

And two movies came out while I was in college, Terminator two and Jurassic park, which were all CG and a bunch of the companies that I was trying to intern with at the time as a college student, uh, here in LA that were model shops and physical effects were all closing or they were looking for, you know, computer science kids. And that just wasn't me. So I took some time off and went back to the tour full time and saw a job

posting on the studio a lot for something called universal planning and development. And I did a little digging and found out was like universal's version of Disney, imaginary basically. And there was a project coordinator position, which I had done for productions before. I said, now let's see what this is. And I got it. And it was an entry-level job, building a new theme park attraction.

It was for the Back to the Future ride at Universal Studios Hollywood. And I was just an office PA basically. But by doing that, it was like this masterclass in how something goes from nothing on paper to opening day. And, and I said, wow, this is a, I didn't know this was an industry. I didn't know it needed people like me, which I, my main skill set was writing.

And I didn't think these things had writers, but they do just like a, a film or a TV show or a Broadway show needs a writer. And so I kind of stuck to it. And 30 years later, I've been doing it ever since. Good for you. And I want to ask you about pitching to Spielberg later too, now that you're mentioning, now that you're bringing up Back to the Future.

Robert, same question for you. How did the journey land you here? Well, you know, it's interesting, and I know Dave will agree to this. Like today, there are now college-level programs for themed entertainment. So kids who want to get into this industry, they have a really clear path. But back in the day, you know, the industry was inventing itself. So nobody knew exactly how to get in. And you know, I went to Disneyland for the first time when I was four and a half. And I'm

like, I don't know what this is, but I want to be a part of this. Like that's it. But very long story short, I ended up getting a BFA in graphic communications in college. And by the mid 80s, when I was out of college, the theme park industry had kind of matured. They weren't building a lot of new parks. So I just went into design and I worked at a little marketing agency, an advertising agency in New York, a couple of packaging firms.

And in the meantime was doing writing. My mother was a screenwriter and a producer agency, an advertising agency, New York, a couple of packaging firms, you know, and in the meantime was doing writing. My mother was a screenwriter and a producer of television. She was actually produced on the tomorrow show, Neil, Tom Snyder, late night talk show. Yes. I believe I pulled some names out of the air for you on our phone call. Exactly. And so, you know, I was always interested in screenwriting because I'd read her scripts. I'd read some of the scripts she brought home from the Writers Guild. Anyway, so I did a lot of writing on my own,

but was still working in this kind of design world. And then I moved back from New York to Los Angeles in 2006 and got connected with Doug Barnes, the creator of the Season Past podcast, and Brent Young, one of the founders and owners of Super 78 Studios, was the other co-host at the time. So we connected there, and the three of us clicked immediately, we all became very good friends. And a couple of years after we started doing this regularly, Brent sort of said, what do you want to do? I'm like, love to work for you someday. And he started giving me little freelance writing assignments. And then by, you know, late 2013, he was like, love to work for you someday. And he started giving me little freelance writing assignments.

And then by late 2013, he was like, quit your job. We'll figure it out. We'll just make some work for you. Just like that. What a great thing to hear. Yeah, yeah. And believe me, I was very happy to move out of that current job or what it was then.

And yeah, so it's coming up on 12 years. And so I'm still there. Good for both of you guys. It's interesting the indirect path that careers take. It really is. And again, themed entertainment is filled with these stories. If you asked 20 different people in this industry how they got into it, you're going

to get 20 different answers. It's just so inherently deeply multidisciplinary that people can kind of move up into multiple paths within it from kind of any industry you can name. So writing, so designing, so engineering. Yeah, this is fascinating to me. I didn't know and I should have known. It never occurred to me that theme parks had writers

or attractions, but now that I think about it, you go to see the Indiana Jones show and it's scripted. Yeah, yeah. And even just a dark ride is going to have narrative beats. It's got to have narrative flow. It's got to have a beginning, middle and end. It's got to have some form of act structure. It's got to have dialogue or narration.

It's got to have somebody direct that dialogue. It's got to have somebody direct the music. It's got to, it's got to have somebody work with the art directors and lighting people the same way that a director on a film set would work with set designers and costume makers and lighting people and gaffers. Like it's very similar to being a writer director on any kind of other creative industry. Just like a little mini Broadway show

that has to go up 60 times a day. Yeah, right. Hey guys, we like to extend our gratitude on this show, particularly for the people who are generous enough Yeah, right. Here's the third version of it. We've done the first two, and we're going to keep plowing through these. Peter Bellini, we know Peter, we love Peter. Thank you. Lisa Medley, thank you Lisa. Cladright Radio, also known as our friend Brett Leverage. Thank you, Brett. Thank you, Eric.

Foreman, thank you. Laura Pinto, there's a great name from the past. Thank you, Laura. Chris Eilinger. Chris Eilinger? Nope, I think it's Chris Eilinger. Yes, Chris, forgive me for that. Craig Taylor, Randy Bucknoth. Love you, Randy. Mike Erickson, Jeff Markin, Joseph from Poughkeepsie.

Ira Flauco. That's a hard one to say. I sound like Will Ferrell in Elm. Francisco, that's fun to say. Jeff Van Landingham. Lusa Leba. Yes, I correspond with all of these people on Facebook regularly, love them all. Sean Gallagher, Bill Rebel, thank you Bill, thank you Sean. Joey, here's a good one, Chiaro Lanza, that's one of my people. Stacey Rose, thank you Stacey, love hearing from you on socials. Jere Moran, Greg Castanias, Greg Castanias, Greg Castanias, one of those. Bess Fanning, thank you Bess.

Timothy O'Reilly, we know you. Ron Basler, John Cristelli or John Cristel or John. Keith Olson, my buddy Keith Olson. Phil Ippolito and Andy Schaal, that's two pages. I don't know how many people that was, 20 something. But we're gonna keep doing this. We're gonna keep giving shout outs, like I'm Miss Frances of Ding Dong School.

There's a reference. And you all get to hear your name on the show every week. And we are so grateful for your support and your love. And it keeps the lights on. It keeps the content coming. So thank you more next week. Tell me, because I'm going to lose track of this. I wrote it down.

This is the Spielberg story that I heard you tell. Was it the back to the future ride? No. So that was years later. Okay. Uh, one of my first big breaks as a creative director, not just an entry level, you know, uh, uh, uh, PA or a show writer, which is what I did

for a little while for, uh, bounced around to different companies. I got my first big break at universal, um, to be a creative director on Men in Black Alien Attack, which was a huge interactive dark ride they were putting in at Universal Orlando. How I got that is a whole other story about how the industry at the time is really, really busy because there were like 16 parks around the world being built. And somebody I had not only worked with, but a personal relationship, a friend of mine, Phil Hedema, who's a big guy in

the industry now and always has been, I sang with him in the Game Man's Chorus of LA. And so I did this sort of other creative thing with him and this other creative outlet. And he just said, we need to have lunch. And he sort of said, I have this project and I, there's creative directors are few and far between our industry right now, because everything's so busy, would you like this gig? And so he said, I think it's time for you to not just be a writer and be a creative director. So that's how that happened.

It was, it was really happenstance and it's the way this industry works. It's very boom and bust. And, and so it was a boom at that time. And I got that chance in doing an attraction for Universal. Steven Spielberg is they, I think they still call him the sort of executive creative director or executive creative consultant for all of the universal theme parks and what that means is they get to use them as a, as a figurehead.

And every project, every major project that they do goes through a point where you pitch it to Spielberg. And so I was 28, I think 29. And we have a concept, I've got a bunch of maquettes of little aliens, I've got a track plan, I've got a vehicle design, I've got a story, I've got a sizzle reel. And it gets to a point where senior management universal goes, all right, it's time we showed to Spielberg. And so Phil, my boss, Phil had him at the time says, all right, so here's how it's going to go. Cause you're going to be on your own.

I'm not going with you. That was the first thing. What? Uh, yeah. And it's at Amblin, by the way, on the universal lot in Hollywood. Like my teenage dream, cinematic dreams are in this building. And so he said, you're going to have like a half an hour. You give him the pitch and I had the pitch down to like 15, 20 minutes.

And he's like, after that, Steven's going to rattle off a million ideas. You write them all down. You say yes. And to every single one, you write them all down. You bring that list back to me. You and I go over it. I decide which ones we can do. Cause he's going to give you a lot of ideas that are three, four, five million

dollars plus, and he gets to whittle that list down to the like top three things that he's going to offer back to Steven. Hey, thanks for the feedback. Here's what you're going to do. So he says, we do this on everything. Steven's great. You're going to love him, but you're going to

have like half an hour. And so I go and his, uh, his assistant was like military about it. Like you literally have 30 minutes. We're going to cut it off. I was like, okay, I got it down. Don't worry. So I sat down and he walks in the room and

he's super magnetic and super engaged. And the instant, the thing I first felt with him walking in, and this is super validating as a 29 year old creative. I was not some peon. Like if you have something to show to him creatively, you are a brethren in the creative world and you are there for his time

and he's there for yours more importantly. It was so incredible. And so I did my thing, we get to 29 minutes and the assistant comes in and Spielberg waves them off. And it goes to 90 and it goes to almost two hours. Wow. Wow. And it goes to 60 and 90 almost two hours.

And because he's so enthusiastic about the project and it's not a movie he directed, but he was one of the producers on the movie. And so he had a lot of great ideas and a lot of the ideas that were going to be 20 and $30 million and then we just could never do. But it was, it was one of the, I left that meeting on such a high and like, you know, went back home and just sort of cried my eyes out in happy tears of like, I can't believe I just did that. And I can die happy now. I pitched to Spielberg and he liked it. Like, nobody would say that. Do I have, do I have this right? He asked for himself to be a character

in a cameo on a park bench? He did. He did. So there was one of the gags. So we've sketched a million gags like you would do for Looney Tunes or any cartoon where you sketch a bunch of gag story ideas, right? Same kind of artists, storyboard level,

of all the aliens hiding in New York and how are they hiding. And they've got to be funny because men in black is that fine line between funny and scary. And so, um, we had these three aliens on a park bench, uh, hiding behind a newspaper and then like the newspaper would drop and you, and so you'd see a head with a baseball cap and the newspaper drop and it was a guy and the aliens holding a fake head on a stick. Right.

And, and Spielberg instantly zoned in on that when he's like, make that one me. And we were like, okay, great, awesome. So if you go through the ride, he's wearing like a, like a Jurassic park cap, I think. Yeah, perfect. And yeah, yeah. So it was stuff like that.

And he had, he responded to all the alien gags and gave sort of what if he did this? What if he did that? Could the ride do this? And it was, you know, it's rare that you get that. I mean, I didn't, I can't say I earned that right to pitch to him. It was just part of the gig.

You know what I mean? At 29. And so, I'm so, so grateful that that happened because it felt like I was part of the process, not just some guy that he was talking to. And always reassuring to meet your heroes and have it work out. Oh yeah, he was great. He was awesome. Yeah, I know you're a good pitcher. Robert, are you a good pitcher as well?

You know, it's funny, I kind of earned a rep pretty early on of being a pretty good pitcher. The first night of working there, it was a Sunday night at 9 p.m. and we had to talk to a China client and they just sort of threw a bunch of storyboards in front of me and said, here, pitch it. And I sweated more than Nixon, but I got through it and they were all like, oh, that was great. That was great. So from from that point on, I became sort of the lead, the lead pitcher. And, you know, it gets easier, but it's not like writers for me anyway. That is not something we want to do. We want to write it and just throw it in front of here.

Read it, just go away. But it's part of this. It's part of the skillset in themed like in movies, like in themed entertainment. You just, you gotta learn how to pitch. Yeah. I will come back to, to asking questions about, uh, uh, your individual processes. But I wanted to talk a little bit about this is the thing that I'm most excited about here is talking about the world that I'm most excited about here,

is talking about the world of Sid and Marty Croft. Since we're calling this Lost in Abandoned Theme Parks, and you had Marty on the podcast, Robert? We did, way back in the day. It was one of the first podcasts that I participated in with the season pass. And as a kid who, like I'll age myself, I was born in 62.

So I was in the perfect zone for Sid and Marty Park to completely absorb into my childhood. I mean, it was, it was, that was my Spielberg moment. I'm like, I cannot believe I'm talking to one of the crops. Like this is madness. And part of my fascination was the theme park. I remember Time Magazine did a big feature on it when it opened up and there was a big full page spread with the shot of the giant escalator

going up and the description and a photo of the pinball machine ride and the lost island boat ride and the crystal carousel. And I'm like, I need to get to this damn park, and then kaboom. It barely lasted, what, a season and a half with that? Yeah. Yeah. We had Marty, well, you heard it, I think. We had Marty and Sid on the old, on the show that I did with Gilbert. Somebody said recently, I think it was Bruce Villange who

I was interviewing, that, well, as you both well know, that Sid, who's still with us, bless his heart, Sid was the dreamer and Marty was the money guy. And Sid would say things like, OK, so we open with 45 ice skaters. And Marty would say, five ice skaters. That's 100%. Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, they totally had the Walt and Roy Disney dynamic. Creative guy, who's going to pay for it now? There was a Sunshine Boys dynamic to them when we had them on. Oh my god, yes, you call that perfectly. Yeah. Yeah, the constant, the first indoor high-rise world of fantasy and fun was the tagline. And the escalator would bring you to the theme park.

You know, when you look at the YouTube videos about it now, it's so, is ambitious the right word? To try to build a theme park inside of what is essentially an office building or an office complex? Yeah, the problem was the vertical circulation. One of the big problems with the park was adapting to that space. There are indoor parks that work.

I think the one we built in Abu Dhabi is quite good. Yeah, we're gonna ask you about that. But that's all one kind of one floor. That's all ground level. The challenge here was they actually built it. So it was sort of a forced, uh, spiral down from the top, which made like repeating attractions and going backwards. Difficult.

It's one of the, one of the, the issues with it operationally, but yeah, it was a big, huge building and they couldn't find a tenant for it. And you know, this theme park goes in and so good for them for trying, but it was when that part of Atlanta was not what it is now and not particularly inviting to people. Oh, they ran into all kinds of problems. Yeah.

Yeah. It was, it's my personal white whale though. Uh, it, it, uh, I, I grew up on the Croft shows a hundred percent, right? The, the, the Croft super show on Saturday morning. Yep. And Captain Cool and the Kongs. Captain Cool and the Kongs, which is where you can see a lot of

footage from the park, actually. Uh huh. They did promos with things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And the thing is, thank God for the internet because I had been looking for footage for that and the DVDs came out in the mid nineties and I'm like, they have to be on here in our bottom. And some of it was, but now that you have YouTube, stuff just keeps coming out of the woodwork. There's that documentary that a guy made about it, little 10, 10 minute documentary that has all this footage that I've never seen because he found it in a Atlanta news archive. Yeah, same here.

Same here. Yeah. And, and so, but when I was sad, it opened in 76, right? So I was six years old announced in 74, opened in 76. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

was six years old. Announced in 74, opened in 76. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I, uh, I begged my father to go see it and he promised we would go and started booking, you know, tickets in a hotel and it was for the month that it closed. So it was one of those things that was on my radar.

I knew exactly what it was. I'd seen all of at, at, at what you could see back then, like on TV. And it didn't really advertise in the West Coast, so I was only seeing what was on the Super Show, but there's an article about it in like Time Magazine or whatever. And so I was upset, was, what am I saying was, I am completely upset.

Like this is my white whale. I actually have been collecting stuff from it. I've over COVID, I found a mint copy of the poster for the park. Oh, that's great. What a get. Yeah, and I had Marty sign it before he passed, which was awesome.

Brent, that's because of Brent, Robert, when they were doing the, they were trying to get like a museum exhibit or a documentary about the two of them and doing oral histories with them. He invited me to their office and I brought it and very sheepishly like,, he, Marty was amazing. Like we found out that I went to school with one

of his daughters cause I grew up in the valley and we found out that day. Like it was very weird. Um, and, but I did bring one thing here to show you guys, but it's a, it's a ticket booth opening day ticket booth, uh, sealed in resin. We'll put that up on social media when you ticket book, excuse me.

And, and it's got, um, and it's got, let's see, and it's got Marty's signature there. Oh my God, I'm super jealous. And now I just need to get Sid. So Sid, if you're listening, I love you. Hurry up. Yeah, I know. I love watching his Instagram stories though.

He does all his live streams. They're great. They're great. I can connect you with Sid easily enough. He hangs out with the actress, Beverly D'Angelo. Oh yeah. Of course he could. They're great. They're great. I can connect you with Sid easily enough. He hangs out with the actress, Beverly D'Angelo. Oh yeah. Of course he could. Yeah.

They're buds. Eight floors, five unique lands. Uh, from an engineering and a design perspective, what is your take, both of you, uh, you first Robert, but on the pinball ride, which, which, you know, the funny thing is you're watching these videos and you're watching the, you think boy, this is ambitious and really creative. And you could, you know, credit to them

for being so imaginative. But the wheels are coming off the entire time. The people in the office buildings are complaining about the pinball noises. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But the people in the hotel can't get to sleep.

I mean, it's just, it's hilarious how many things went wrong. From a design perspective, tell me your take on the pinball ride. Well, again, as you said, you have to give them credit for really thinking outside the box. Yeah. I'm a huge pinball fan. Because it looks cool as hell when you look at the.

Exactly. And my little brain at the time, I was thinking it's like the doom buggies, but as a silver ball, but you're not moving in this slow chain. It's this much more kind of random movement or whatever. I mean, you know, I would never judge anybody else's work unless I'd gotten to see it in person. So I have nothing negative to say. Yes, there was some noise abatement issues. They didn't address

Yes, and mechanic a lot of mechanical breakdowns apparently. Well, that's the thing too And you know, I hope eventually when we get to Pacific Ocean Park, like that's another part where they went nuts I mean people who just didn't think like tradition because there weren't a lot of traditional ride designers Yes, so they were just making it up as they make it up as they went along. They were carny folk, you know Exactly and the dark rides there like they're spewing hydraulic fluid everywhere I mean they were a mess but oh my god to be there when they were firing at all cylinders Oh that pinball ride there was only like seconds of footage of it on on the mccroft show So that's all I ever saw as a kid. So when that documentary came out about five years ago,

it's got a good like 20 or 30 seconds. I analyzed that like the Zabruder film. Like it was like- Second Zabruder reference today. You had one at lunch. It's like that, seriously, I had been looking for that forever. And now that it's slowly like appearing,

like it, as Robert said, it was kind of like an Omni-Mover, kind of like a Haunted Mansion, Doom doom buggy Omni-mover, but going very fast and sort of bouncy cause it twisted you back and forth. I was obsessed with the idea of shrinking down to pinball size and going through a ride. What a great idea. It's a great idea.

But it wasn't the only mechanical problem with that park, like that one of the biggest ones was the carousel was the crystal carousel. Yes. Because they were super ambitious, right? And what a great idea. Like light them up from underneath.

I love it. Right. But they were made of like poured resin. So they all, the whole thing weighed like more than a 10, more than a 18 wheeler or a couple of them, like, yeah, evidently it had to, you know, they had structural problems in the building and anyway, but it, I think the ambition was really high,

but you were still in that part. Robert touched on this earlier, that the industry itself hadn't really matured a lot yet. Like remember Walt Disney World had only opened, what, two years prior to this. Exactly. And so we weren't in that Renaissance of like companies that just did this kind of engineering.

They were still leaning on scenic companies and sometimes aerospace and things. So, you know, it was, they bet off more than they can chew, but my God, thank goodness it happened because it's such a curiosity. Yeah, I'd much rather have an interesting failure than a boring success. You know, and when it comes to, you know,

technical problems too, like this nine story escalator, like great idea, but guess what? When that thing breaks down, now you have to have people walk 90 feet upstairs to get into your park. Like it just, it was, it's just like, no system works a hundred percent, or a hundred percent of the time.

So- The entire park had a single point of failure, basically. Exactly. Those escalators. Not a good place to have a point of failure. You want to get people into your park. There's a gag on The Simpsons called the escalator to nowhere. You just see these people going up an escalator and going,

ah, ah, in the monorail episode. And I'm watching this thing and I'm thinking, this escalator, I mean, the whole thing's like Sid's fever dream. I heard a story about that escalator from, I think from my boss, Phil, my, my old boss, Phil Hadamard from Universal used to build like foam constructed puppets and costumes for them for, for some of the shows back in like the seventies and, um, he tells the story and I don't, I think it was him, maybe somebody else that when they were looking at the building as a possible place, they were

touring the building with the developer and they're going up that beautiful escalator and it's like Sid and then the developer and then Marty taking up the the rear and he basically says, Sid looks up and sees the, if you notice the pictures, it's got this like white sort of cage, this beautiful sort of architectural structure around the escalator. So it gives it kind of a ceiling plane and lighting and stuff.

Sid goes, oh, wouldn't it be great when people come up here, we'll have clowns like up here handing people balloons hanging from these things above. It'll be really beautiful. Pause. COUGHS Marty goes, if I see one effing clown on the opening

game, they're fired. So like it's apocryphal. I don't know if it's exact, I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist and it so sums up their relationship so perfectly. It sounds, it sounds like it absolutely could be true. Only survived, you asked, you asked five months in all, uh, the world that shit in Marty Croft.

I mean, it was the neighborhood, it was the mechanical breakdowns, it was the complaints, it was the fact that there weren't enough rides, there weren't enough attractions, you got through the whole thing in three hours. And they were losing, according to my research, they were losing patrons to Disney World, only one stayed away, which just offered a lot more Marty's

there, a great line. Marty says we, we, we worked with the wrong people in the wrong place at the wrong time. That checks out. Yeah. That checks out. Sort of, sort of sums it up. Yeah.

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Visit Specsavers.ca to book your next eye exam. Eye exams provided by independent optometrists. And you gave me the perfect segue, Robert, because you did mention Pacific Ocean Park, which came to me late in my research. But my God, as amusement parks go, it looks like a paradise. Well, as I may have mentioned,

I got to go to that park when I was very, very young. I had sort of a big brother. My that park when I was very, very young. I had sort of a big brother. My father died when I was very young, so my mom got one of those big brother types to give me a good masculine influence. And he was the one who took me to Disneyland, and then he also took me to PLP. And at that time, this would have been 67, 68, so the park was really on the way out. Most of the rides weren't operating. I do remember riding the flying fish, the little wild mouse coaster, but just looking around like and seeing the facade for the banana train ride and you know, that was the highlight, supposedly the banana. That was the, that was the

big narrow train ride at the very end. I mean, so ambitious as a themed attraction and some of the other dark rides. And like you were saying, Dave, this one haunts me like, oh, to be able to go back and really see everything that this park had in its best condition. Oh, if only. Pacific Ocean Park. Come on and ride the roller coaster down at the whole family down the big ol thing there's something fun for everyone and they all say Pacific Ocean Park lots of rides and slides down at the all be mom and dad and kids all all of me oh come on and if you're the hits down

at the office Pacific Ocean Park. Yeah! $1.91 is all that you pay for 40 kinds of fun and you can play all day. It's really nice to pay one price at Pacific Ocean Park. So ride the ocean sky ride down to POV. Or eat some cotton candy down to POV. The sums are fun for everyone at POP. Pacific Ocean Park. Everybody's at Pacific Ocean Park. So come on down to Pacific Ocean Park.

Everybody's at Pacific Ocean Park. But I must recommend then the book by Chris Merritt and his partner, not forgetting the other writer's name, but there's a fantastic, utterly comprehensive book about the history of POP and anybody who's interested at all in that project, you should get the book. Um, but yeah, I mean, here was a bunch of people like the lead designer, the guy named Fred Harper, 30 years old. He came out of, I think the CBS art department and basically was like, here, make this, make that, make it happen. And, you know,

he created the beautiful entrance plaza with this amazing mid-century modern stylized octopus which again I reread that building predated the LAX theme building and if you try to tell me they weren't influenced by that POP structure I'll call you a liar. Yeah. It is very clear. Well CBS was a partner in the park so they brought So they brought the best talent they had to offer. Exactly.

At the time. But again, go ahead. No, I was going to say, like Disney, when he's building Disneyland, he's like all his art directors from the studio. You guys come over here and help me make the theme park. And that's exactly what CBS did. I didn't get the book, sadly I will.

But there's not a ton of footage to be found. I mean, it was only an operation from 58 to 67, nine short years where you snuck in. It looks like a blast, but again, the gondola is 75 feet above the ocean. It's terrifying. Terrifying. Yeah. There was a sea circus with dolphins, a whirlpool ride, a centrifuge, a Mr. Squid's thrill ride. My God, they had a teen USA pageant hosted by Supe Sales.

It was like everything, everything was going on in this place. But I'm guessing Dave's from what you're alluding to, bit off a little more than they could chew. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's just, it, it, it's such a beautiful example of, again, sort of, it started pre Disneyland or around the same time ish, but that industry really didn't gel. And we were, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a reaction to Disneyland, but it's with the same people and techniques and location and sort of vibe of your typical amusement pier, right? Which is full of colorful characters in front of and behind the scenes, you know?

Um, and, and, and that, the, uh, the, the, one of the neat things about Pacific Ocean Park, in addition to being all the rides was that it was this huge concert venue. This is something the book goes into pretty deeply because Dominic Priore, who co-wrote the book with Chris Merritt, it's called the rise and fall of LA space age nautical pleasure peer. And it's a fantastic book. Great title. The publisher actually put a bunch of music from

the park that you can download and stream on their website too, by the way. Oh, brilliant. I have it all on my iPod. It's when I drive to Santa Monica. That's wonderful. We'll plug the book at the end. Remind me.

It's great. It's great. And, and, and the forward is by Brian Wilson. Like it's that ingrained in the music world. Oh, wow. Yeah. By the RIT for that poor son of a gun. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, recently. Like Dominic Pereira is an LA sort of rock historian and music historian. And so he had a lot of perspective on that place and footage and news and history about that place that maybe theme park people didn't have. So Chris partnered with him and they co-wrote it. So it's really accurate about the time period,

not only from theme parks, but from music. And it's really quite good. I think the, I see pictures though of that gondola and it's over water. Yeah, if you're a heights guy like me, it's your worst nightmare. I mean, for some reason I don't have that reaction to the old gondolas, the Skyway that used to be in Disneyland.

For some reason that doesn't terrify me, but the one over the water made by carny people, maybe is not the one that I would have liked going on. Were they submerging people in the water in diving bells, Robert? There was a diving bell attraction that they also happened to have at AstroWorld in Coney Island.

I guess somebody made these things and it was very simple, just a big circular tub filled with water. And then in the center of that, a big circular diving bell with like little portholes around the edge kind of like a little cylinder version of this Disneyland subs you know so people can lean forward and put their head through this thing and they would dunk you down into the water and I guess there would be some little show elements and then they would burst

you back up you know everybody got the bent so they pop you out of the water for a little thrill element. And what was the banana train, which is described as a combination scenic railway and tiki bar, which fascinates me? And apparently this was the jewel in the crown. Exactly, yeah. So again, aerodynamics, which was a big designer, a lot of the hardware for Disney,

they did the Matterhorn bobsleds. I mean, most of the rides in the original Disney park, the Fantasyland vehicles, you know, that was all engineered by Arrow. And so Arrow was brought on to do some of the attractions for this park, which by the way, just getting back to Dave, what you were saying about how it has this kind of like ocean pier, carney vibe, that's because, you know, there were all those beautiful seaside piers in Southern California, and there was this existing pier called Ocean Park

that they use some of the existing assets. So the big wooden roller coaster and you know, some of the other pier elements. So they kind of, they didn't draw this up from scratch. They were kind of retrofitting some of the original attractions. But the banana train was a completely unique thing and it was very mid-60s You know that kind of vibe very teaky very exotica

Like if they didn't play Martin Denny 24-7 in the station they missed out but you know, there was a volcano There was a rotating tunnel gag. There was a big spider There was this minor bird or something that, you know, said, thanks for coming at the end. Just, uh, I mean, it's like the Disneyland train meets the jungle cruise and, and basically, and really culturally insensitive by today's standards, there's just no way you could ever do it or show it now. I got a sense of that.

Yeah. It's, but it's, but it's incredible. It's, it's literally like give somebody who owns a Tiki bar, a train and tell them to make a great ride. And it's, it's everything thrown at it. Like you, the, there's not a lot of film, but there's tons of photos of it and it is just Chocoblock. It's everything in the kitchen sink that's Tiki. Uh, let me, I'm going to go off the, the topic of, uh, of lost parks just for a minute to ask

you guys a question that my wife had, which I think is an interesting question. My wife, Genevieve, she said, I'd be curious to know which ride or attraction from a, from a, uh, from a fan's perspective, not from a designer's or an artist's perspective, knocked, knocked their socks off. You each have one, one that just blew you away either as a kid or, or as a professional.

Dave? There's several. Well, yeah, I mean, I probably have a couple different answers for that. As a kid, I would say it became the ride that blew me away as a kid became my personal, like creative origin story. And that would be the Haunted Mansion.

Oh, wow. And that's, yeah. And that's just because as I saw it when I was four, and it freaked me the hell out. And like, in particular, there's one thing in particular. If you remember, you know the hallway with like, the wallpaper that looks like a Victorian flocking pattern. But if you look really closely, it's got these faces on it,

these banshees. I had nightmares about that banshee, like, growing out of my wall when I was like four or five years old. But then at like nine or 10, I discovered a book in the library about theatrical stage illusions and Pepper's ghost. And the librarian was like,

oh yeah, like the ghosts in the Haunted Mansion. I went, wait, what? And so it demystified it for me, right? And then as an adult, the more I write it, the more you realize it has this really arch sense of humor about death. It's like, hey, don't be scared, come join the more I write it, the more you realize it has this really arch sense of humor about death. It's like, Hey, don't be scared. Come join the party in the graveyard, you know?

And so it's, it's, it's, it's not necessarily the fanciest or the flashiest, but it's the thing that hit me square between the eyes first that I can't stop revisiting and reanalyzing for the last 50 years. Great answer. Can you believe they're still using Paul Freeh's voice?

I know. They're like, what is're still using Paul Freeh's voice? They're like, what is it? 40 years since he's gone? I know. Well, and there's the guy that sounds just like him. They use for, for, for how to imagine holiday, the night member for Christmas version, uh, Corey Burton is his name. And he does the perfect Paul Freeh's like he's absolutely spot on. It's a great, it's a great answer.

And by the way, it's funny for a park like Disney, Disneyland and Disney world to be that the script does mock death and, and and have fun with the idea of death. It's a very, it's a very interesting creative choice. Yeah. Looking back, Robert, same question for you. Gosh, that's a, that's a tough one. Well, I will say my Disney connection does start with the Matterhorn because

I remember very clearly when we were walking through this magical wonderland and I saw those little bobsled cards kind of running around and it looked kind of slow to me. I thought it was like more like a train kind of an attraction. So I told Ken, my big brother, let's go ride that. He's like, okay. And apparently I just laugh like a maniac once we went over the top. Cause I was like, Oh, look at this thing go. Like it just, that was the beginning of my obsession with roller coasters in particular, but also like you can make a roller coaster look like a mountain. And the cars can be little bobsleds.

Like when I was a kid and I'd ride roller coasters, I'd make up stories to go with them. Like I'm a fighter jet pilot or I'm a spy in some new vehicle or something. But it was like in Disneyland, you didn't have to make up the stories. They were there for you. Like you can write the stories that other people can experience.

So I guess in that regard- That's great. That kind of really set me on the path. Did you ever do pre-78 Matterhorn? So you saw it before they finished the interior with it. Oh yeah, you could see the basketball courts, all the wood structures, watching the buckets go through.

I still pretend I'm a fighter pilot sometimes, Robert. Is that immature? No, not at all. Not at all. We get paid to do that. Like that's a job. I wanna ask you guys about some of these other, uh, uh, parks that I wrote down, uh, uh, based on, uh,

pop culture, uh, properties, I guess that are called IPs, uh, uh, these days. Uh, what do we know about Hanna-Barbera land in North Houston, which lasted all of two years, 84 and 85. Interesting. lasted all of two years, climbing, sharing. It's a place for fun. Pick up your coupon at Safeway today for $1.50 off and a free Coke at Hanna Barbera Land.

We know anything about that one? All I know is I've seen pictures of... It was turned into a water park eventually, into Splashtown, USA. Yeah, I know, I remember seeing photos of it and it was like, I remember a walk through Flintstones park that was, but it was just that. I don't remember anything else about the

other parts of it. It was in Houston, you said? Yeah. North Houston. Yeah. Wow. Just have one card on it, but it's interesting to me. Uh, designed as a kid's park actually. Oh yeah. Okay. it, but it's interesting to me. Yeah, well, you know, there was that- Designed as a kids' park actually.

Oh, yeah, okay, right, right, right, right. It was now, it became a Six Flags Hurricane Harbor Splashtown, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember, okay, so the parks like that, like regional ones, you sort of had, even though it was Hennepberbera and a big IP, they didn't really advertise those outside of that state

or maybe like a two or three states around it. So that's not one I learned about until much later. Like as, as working actually probably four Paramount since for a long time, they had the Hanna-Barbera characters in their parks and then Warner Brothers later. I remember in doing research and finding bits and

pieces of this, I forgot they were all one park, but, but yeah, these were this, this, this is the theme park boom lit of the, of the early eighties when everybody was trying to turn their regional into something that was a destination. Wasn't there a Hanna-Barbera ride in Universal Studios Florida? Wasn't there the fun world of Hanna-Barbera?

It was a simulator ride. Yeah. It was a flight simulator ride that opened with original Universal Studios Florida in, uh, in 1990. What about the land of Oz? Which was really good by the way. It was universal studios, Florida in, uh, in 1990. What about the land of Oz? It was really good by the way. It was good.

Oh, it was great. It was great. What about the land of Oz in North Carolina, which opened in 1970 to much fanfare with Debbie Reynolds and Carrie Fisher cutting the, uh, cutting the opening, uh, the ribbon. 13 year old Carrie Fisher. Yeah. And they still open this place. I'm told for special occasions.

Yeah. Like once a year, although they're skipping this year, unfortunately. But it kind of closed in 1980, officially as a, as a, as a theme park. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, they, it's basically become a touch point for, you know, super fans of the original movie, 39 movie and the books. And so they, it becomes like almost a fan convention

when they reopen it. That's who it draws now. It's not really, and it's, you know what? It's, we call these things theme parks. It didn't really have any rides. It was more environments and landscaping and character appearances and maybe some food and beverage. But it wasn't traditional amusement park

in the sense of like full attractions and rides and full shows. Is there a distinction, because I'm learning this world, is there any distinction between theme park and amusement park? Yes. Oh, don't get us started.

Oh, is that a naive question? It sounds like it was. No, no, no, no, because people in the general population confuse the two all the time. I mean, I don't know. I have a big issue. Like, too many places call themselves theme parks. They're not theme parks.

But you know, that's a whole. I mean, the simple answer is a regional park that's mostly about coasters, even if it has a little bit of theming, is really an amusement park. A theme park is one where the destinations you go to in the parks have an intrinsic story or theme, like Disneyland. But even that definition gets a little squirrely, especially nowadays when like,

take a park like Knott's, right? Knott's Berry Farm started kind of as an amusement park, but nowadays with its own history and Ghost Town and even its and, and, and, and, and it, even its little themed areas has, it can be called a theme park. It didn't start that way. So it's, it's a, it's a, it is somewhat subjective.

I would say from an industry perspective, it's not so much those two terms as you have regional parks and destination parks is really the, the, the heat, the bigger delineation between the two. I see. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, to that point, that's a really good point.

Parks kind of move in and out of embracing very immersive theming and not, I mean, magic mountain, when it opened was called a theme park. Sometimes they'll go in and really dress up a land and make it fully cohesive narratively. Like as Dave was saying, it's like, you know, if you go into a theme park, everything tells that story. The rides, the shows, the food and beverage, the architecture, the music, like it's all telling the same story rather than just a decorated ride, you know, with pretty pictures

and a nice logo or whatever. But yeah, Nats is in the middle of like really kind of, they did a big redo of their Mexican village area to try to make that feel more enriched and cohesive. So, it's leadership sometimes too. It's like if the corporate heads are like, we gotta cut budgets, theming is the first thing that goes out the window.

One of the things you see when you're researching the demise of these parks, I mean, it's money nine times out of 10, you know, or, or some kind of shady deal like Freedomland, which we'll get into it in a minute. But that's the perfect example. Like they even said, like one of the investors like this parks only here is a placeholder. Like, I mean, it's, it's nice to think of this industry is like, Hey, let's make a, you know, let my grandpa's got a barn. Let's put on a show. It's not that at all.

It's actually really driven by, you know, the, the, the, like, hey, let's make a, you know, let my grandpa's got a barn, let's put on a show. It's not that at all. It's actually really driven by the global economy and particularly by real estate and by what they call income qualified audience. Like within a certain radius of a place, is there an income qualified audience

that can pay the ticket price that can reach a certain number of people per year? And that's why, like, you know, you don't see a new theme park in the U S every couple of years with Epic just opened. And that was the first one in 25 years. So it's, it, it, it, it's a weird industry because it's not driven by audience demand in,

in really it's driven by real estate demand and, and a larger forecasting of, of finance command, uh, demand. I'm learning so much. And I was going to say, I mean, that, that was part of the big part of the reason for the demise of so many parks that we lost in the forties and fifties is that the value of the real estate just became too great to use for other things like condos and malls. And so as soon as they, you know,

the park started waning with television coming in, it's like tear them down, build condos. Freedom land seems a shining example of that. But we'll come back to it. I want to try you guys. I want to try a quiz out on you guys, on the two experts. OK. If you'll indulge me.

This was prepared by our social media director, Josh Chambers, who's here with us today in the Peanut Gallery. We're calling this, is it a real park or a fake park that we made up and we're calling it because we don't have a clever title, we're calling it park or poppycock. So there you go, Josh, they like the title. Okay.

First one up, and you can just throw out your answers. Kiss World, a traveling amusement park based on the exploits of the Gene Simmons led rock band, which never made it past the drawing board. Is that a park? Was that a park? A real conceived park or poppycock? I think that's a park.

I think it's a park. Yep, very good. See Josh, hard to stump these two. Well, and I gotta say, the only reason I really know that is Brent Young is the biggest kiss fan in the world. So he probably told me that. It should have happened. They did kiss kiss made a whole movie about that was shot at Magic Mountain.

Kiss me. Phantom of the park. Bless your heart. Okay. From the people who brought you Tennessee's historic Dollywood, it's Jerry Reed's four by four fairy tale jamboree. It's Jerry Reed's four by four fairy tale jamboree. That's a poppycock.

Okay. But I like the Jerry Reed. I think we gave ourselves away. I think my lab gave me away. Exactly. Okay, here we go. Bon Bon Land or Bon Bon Land, a Danish amusement park famous for its farting dog roller coaster.

Park. Park. Hey, you guys have witnessed. I've not been there and I desperately want to go. I've ridden the dog roller coaster. Park. Park. Hey, you guys have witnessed. I've not been there and I desperately want to go. I've ridden the dog fart coaster. You have ridden the dog fart coaster. Is there a diaper ride too? There's a peepee diaper ride or something?

Yeah, it's lots of, like your inner six year old will find the whole place really funny. Isn't there like a flume ride that's named as sewer rats or something? Yep, where you ride in a little bathtub, or a little like toilet or bathtub or something. Yeah. My wife was in Copenhagen and she didn't go.

Big loss. Uh, OK. Ebenezer flopping sloppers, wonderful waterslides. Poppycock. Wait, Sadie, Ebenezer. Ebenezer flopping sloppers, wonderful water slides. Boy, that sounds like it could have been a dog patch attraction, but I'm going to, well, you know what?

I'll say park just to be different. Robert has it. It is an abandoned water park located near an Illinois intersection originally opened as a gravel pit. Sounds delightful. And it failed for a shocker. Yeah. Sounds delightful. For the whole family.

It's a little shocker, yeah. It existed from 1980 all the way to 1989. It is, oh my God. It is real. Ow. Okay. Floppin', floppin' slopper. Ebenezer, you're free to wiki it.

Ebenezer, floppin' sloppers, wonderful water slides. I should say it as Johnny Carson's Art Fern character. We have an easier flop and slop. But, uh. That's strong. There you go. Okay. How about, last but not least, Wilfred Brimley's Triple D Aqua Park.

Ha ha ha. Diabetes. Diabetes. Diabetes. There was a diabetes ride, yes. That's gotta be Poppy Park. Poppycock. Diabetes. There was a diabetes ride, yes. That's gotta be Poppy. Poppycock. Very good.

Yes. Josh wrote a favorite destination from Montana cowboys looking for a big sky cool down. I think we only stumped you once. We stumped you on Ebeneezer flopping sloppers. There are t-shirts of Ebeneezer flopping sloppers, wonderful water slide available on the internet right now. Listen, the guy surfing the web as we, as we swan it.

I couldn't, that couldn't pass up looking for that. Sorry. There was one last one I didn't read, uh, because I thought it was too obvious, but Yakov Smirnov's Branson Wood. That is Parks. That's Park. Uh, I think he made it up. Well, Yakov Smirnov does have a theater in Branson.

Oh, oh, Josh, does have a theater in Branson. Oh, Josh, we have a judge's call. Waving it off. That was fun. Thank you guys for indulging us. That was brilliant. No, well, well created, man. Those were fun.

You, you, you, uh, you, uh, acquitted yourselves well, although we stumped you with Ebenezer. I think he'd stump anybody in the industry. It was like, there's no way that's real. Here's a question from our pal Bennett Yellen, who helped set this interview up. And we'll thank Bennett. We'll thank him. And we love Bennett to death and we'll thank Bennett at the end.

If you two guys, and I'm sure you've been asked this, but we're going to do it again. If you guys had a time machine, which park would you visit? Any place, any era? Dave said Marty's world of sudden Marty croft. He didn't even has a final answer. Even though it's only three, only three hours to go through and most of it's a puppet show. Absolutely.

No question. No question. Okay. Look at that. This is man as a loyalist and Robert, you know, I, I gotta say to go back to Coney Island, steeple, chase dreamland and Luna park. We're all operating at their peak. That's, that's my first stop.

Yeah. That's great. He'll be, would be a very close second. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that would be very close second for me. Not any, not any world's fairs at the 19th century.

Those are theme parks. Oh, I'm sorry. That's a different question. I'm sorry, I apologize. That is true. That is true. Although I will just- They're related.

I mean, the impulse is right. They're related, but I would, that would be a different category. If I have a time machine, I would want to have, you know, one theme park to pick from and one world's fair to pick from maybe, but that's- I think Sid would be deeply honored by your answer, Dave. All right, well, Dave, I have to ask be deeply honored by your answer, Dave.

All right. Well, Dave, I have to ask if you had which world's fair first one, where would you? Oh, that's hard. I mean, the easy one would be the down official one, 64, 65. Cause I was at the 64 world's fair. I was all of three. I don't have a lot. There was, there's some super eight footage somewhere, uh, in my family's possession, but I really don't remember much about it, somewhere, uh, in my, my family's possession,

but I really don't remember much about it. But of course, you know, there were remnants still standing, the Unisphere still standing, that weird helicopter. Featured in men in black. Parachute. Yeah, exactly. The towers, the towers are still standing. 39 would probably be the one I'd pick though.

Cause that's, that was such a turning point really. These are good answers. Bennett, I hope you like, you got your question answered going back to freedom land, which, and again, this was the most fascinating amount of research that I did because it was right here in the Bronx. You know, uh, I mean, not far, not terribly far from where we're recording this. I mean, uh, and it closed in 64, but, uh, tell us a little bit, Robert, about C.V. Wood, who was the master planner of Disneyland,

who was behind this thing. I don't want to call it a fiasco, but. Well, that wouldn't be unfair. But it wasn't his fault. So yeah, C.V. Wood was the actual first employee of Disneyland. Walt Murray hired him and made him the general manager to get the park built.

And he did. He used tactics and methods that Walt was not super crazy about. And as soon as Disneyland opened, they fired him and removed him from all corporate histories. And Todd James Pierce, who was an amazing Disney historian and writer and podcaster, he wrote a book a few years ago called Three Years in Wonderland, which really details how Disneyland got to happen. And by the way, folks, we were this close to it not happening. I mean, it was a disaster right up through opening day, but Wood got it built. So anyway, once he leaves or once he's ousted from Disney, he started his own company to do theme

park and complex developments. And Freeland was one of the first big projects right after. And, you know, it was a very ambitious idea. Uh, one of the real issues with it was they wanted to make it in the shape of the contiguous, you know, 48 States, which is, we keep coming back to that word ambitious. Yeah. Yeah. Clever. 48 states, which is. We keep coming back to that word ambitious. Yeah. Yeah. Clever, but like, it's so constraining and like, how is the guest who is not in

a drone or an airplane going to appreciate that? Like it's such a. Master plans aren't seen, aren't used from the air. Like it's, it only makes sense for marketing. It doesn't actually have any practical use whatsoever. You know? Exactly. Exactly. And of course, you know, back then any practical use whatsoever. You know, exactly, exactly.

And of course, you know, back then we didn't know. But now we know every park needs to have huge expansion paths. Like you have to build that into your long term planning. So you can't fence yourself into some weird arbitrary shape. But there were a million other reasons the park didn't didn't do so well. But you know, there were a lot of very innovative attractions and several that moved on to other parks. Yeah. I think there were several dark rides.

One ended up at Cedar Point. A lot of Arrow Development also designed attractions for the park. So again, they tried. And they also kind of brought back one of the early show attractions in Coney Island was this kind of big firefighting show We'd have this arena and burning buildings and the firemen would come out with recreating the great Chicago fire That was part of yeah. Yeah, so and they brought that show back that kind of firefighters show for freedom land

Which was kind of an interesting throwback to you know way back in the day which is kind of an interesting throwback to way back in the day. Here at Freedomland, they have the Chicago fire every half hour, every day. And the gas flames behind the windows of those fireproof buildings always go out on schedule. But it's lots of fun because it's make-believe. In Chicago in 1871, they didn't have fireproof buildings and the big fire was an important event in American history brought to life at Freedomland. But again, it was built on very weird swampy ground and you know that everybody was eyeing it for real estate development down the road anyway.

So poor CB and his team, I think Barco Engineering was the name of the company. They pulled the rug out from under CB. I mean, it's basically if you do the research and you go to wonderful defunct land and these other places that are talking about it, and by the way, that site is a rabbit hole. Fantastic. It is just fantastic. And we'll plug that at the about it. And by the way, that site is a rabbit hole. Fantastic. It is just fantastic. And we'll plug that at the end too. Do we know this for a fact that it was kind of a scheme from the beginning?

I don't know how. Oh, sorry, Dave. Go ahead. No. I was going to say that it's debated. But it's that the housing developments, the initial planning for the housing developments started before the park. Co-op city, which it is now.

Yeah. Which it is now. And, and, and the idea was if certain buildings on the site could stand for at least five years without sinking into what was basically marshland, they could forego a lot of the, uh, the, the, the testing and sort of ecological testing of the area to get the permits.

That's the rumor. Um, and that the whole, the entire park was like literally meant to fail in five years. But I don't think that's ever been shown as proof, but there's lots of weird coincidences about the development of co-op city that, that lead that point towards that. Well, as William Zeckendorf supposedly said

as much in an interview, uh, which is like, which I, which I guess that, that lead that point towards that. Well, as William Zeckendorf supposedly said as much in an interview, which is like, which I guess is the, or somebody did, which is the smoke, the so-called smoking gun. But let's talk about the lands. There was old Chicago, San Francisco, New Orleans, where Mardi Gras was happening constantly, the old Southwest, the great plains, little old New York,

and the future was represented by Satellite City. Yeah. And such invention. Yeah. Such creation. You watch Chicago burn every 20 minutes. Yeah. That's another thing is some attractions

in questionable taste. They also recreated the 1906 earthquake that killed 3,000 people. But OK. And then there was a tornado. And then there was a tornado. Yeah, there was a tornado. Natural and manmade disaster park. No Donner party ride, disappointingly.

That was the cafeteria. Yeah, but, and name entertainment too, in the park, Louis Armstrong, Benny Goodman, the three stooges. I mean, there was, they bit off a lot again. And, uh, it, it boggles the mind that, that everybody was doing this and CV wood and all of this talent involved, not knowing that there was

some, there was, there was a scheme of foot that something was rotten in the state of Denmark. And I don't mean the farting rollercoaster the entire time. Uh, it's, it's, it the state of Denmark. And I don't mean the farting rollercoaster the entire time. Uh, it's, it's, it's kind of shocking looking back on it. Yeah. It was a little cursed. I mean, from what I understand, why go to such great lengths?

If you, if you, if you don't, if you, if you're testing this, you know, why not open a smaller park or something less advantageous, less imaginative and less ambitious. Well, I think a few years later, you got great adventure in New Jersey, right? Like that opened the early seventies. So I think there was a reaction to that and it was more the carbon copy cookie cutter, uh, uh, uh, regional park model rather than freedom land was trying to be this destination.

I don't think anything there was particularly repeatable though, right? It was very much like the kind of thing you might do once a year other than entertainment. Right. Um, what do you, what do you think, Robert? Yeah. I mean, it was a little kind of odd. Like it was supposed to be America, but it

was very like Southwest and Prairie themed. Like it was very old West. Educate and entertain that was supposed to be there. And most of it was, it was like, like 1850s to the turn of the century. Like it was very rooted in the past. So it was almost like frontier land, but a whole park except for the satellite city. Right.

You know, so it was, it was, it was an odd mix look, and I will always appreciate a park that opens with multiple dark rides. So big, big, big thumbs up for that. Yeah. But it was an odd attractions mix. And I will always appreciate a park that opens with multiple dark rides. So big, big, big thumbs up for that. But it was an odd attractions mix. And I think they built it as bigger and better than Disneyland, the world's biggest entertainment center.

And it was, it was not, no, it was not. And this is a lesson developers keep learning over and over again. Every time I read like, Oh, this is going to be blanks Disneyland. I'm like, the park's going to suck. Like every single time they make that claim, they will never be a better Disneyland. That's never going to be so, but you know, promotion is what it is. You got to hype it somehow. And you're all way here on the East coast, you know, Disneyland's really far away.

So they thought they could get away with it. I mean, there's a certain amount of, you know, American gusto behind things like this. Like, let's just build it just because. But this goes back to what I said earlier, where nowadays this industry isn't, and love it or hate it, it's built by forecasting. It's the same, same reason we get, unfortunately, we get, you know, the same six movies every year in different, with different names. Um, but when it's, when it, when it's brick

and mortar like this, it's a, it's an even higher risk. So the people that are behind these things that you're never going to see parks like this again, you're never going to see an experiment like dog patch, like, like the, like the, uh, so we're listed in Monte Croft just because it has to not only go through audience focus testing to the Nth degree, but also like, you know, can the area we're putting in sustain it. It's why when I look at new parks like Epic, which is Epic Universe, which is incredible. It's a miracle that thing happened and it's,

I'm glad it did. Where's that, where's that park Epic, when you speak of it. It's Universal's fourth theme park in Orlando that just opened about a month ago and it's spectacular. that just opened about a month ago and it's spectacular. And I spoke to you both about the, uh, uh, the, the, the park in the Disney park and, and, uh, in Japan, the water park in, uh, Tokyo Disney. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You both, you both. Yeah. It's themed to water, not like a traditional water park with water slides. It's a themed, sorry, themed water park. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I watched the Imagineering documentary

on, uh, on Disney plus and, uh, it's incredible. It looks, it looks incredible. It water park. Yeah, I mean, I watched the Imagineering documentary on Disney Plus and it looks incredible. It's incredible, that's because, well, Disney doesn't really own it. I mean, it's owned by a local business entity that they were one of the first international Disney parks and Tokyo Disneyland was such a success that they got to do the second one. And one of the reasons it's a success is the merchandise and what they call per cap spending because, uh, in the States, the average per cap in things

like merchandise and as a park in the U S is 20 or 30 bucks in Japan, it's like 150. And the reason for that is it's a culture. I forget the Japanese word for it,, it's like 150. And the reason for that is it's a culture, I forget the Japanese word for it, but it's a gift-giving culture where, hey, if I go to a theme park on the weekend, when I go back to my office job, I'm gonna have little teeny gifts like, you know, Sanrio style pencils or notepads or candy

to give to all of my friends and family. It's just intrinsic in the culture, that sort of small gift-giving culture. That little bit of merchandise sales adds up. And so literally that audience buys more than any other audience in the world. And that's why those Japan parks happen.

That is interesting. And you know, because Tokyo Disney land was such a success when they came back to the Imagineers and said, look, we want a second gate. And they were like, do whatever you want. We don't care what it costs. Just a blank check, huh? We will bankroll everything.

And that's what they got. They actually pitched a studio park, like Disney Hollywood Studios in Orlando at first. It was still pretty ambitious and high budget. And OLC, the Oriental Land Company, the company that owns and operates it said, Nope, not good enough. Something bigger. No, no, no money's not no money's no limit.

And when you look at Tokyo Disney sea, it is money is not there, no limit like that. That thing is incredible. The art directors won every argument they could possibly get in for that part. And it's better for it. I hope to get to see it one day. You really will.

There's, and by the way, too, I mean, I looked at conservatively a hundred000 pictures of that park before I went in. And when I walked through the Portofino Hotel, I was blown away. Like, when you see it in person, you cannot believe it's real. How about that? It's so stunning. Just a couple of more.

These were also things featured in Freedomland. There was a Pirates of the Caribbean ride using early animatronics There was an authentic recreation of the Cape Canaveral control room. There's a simulated rocket journey. There was a nightly fireworks show Again a lot of trouble to go through for a park. That's kind of pre-doomed Tell me this too Robert I went to your I went to your site. I was on the Robert, I went to your site, I was on the Thrill Ride site,

and you listed some attractions, some IPs that never got, as Red Buttons would say, never got a dinner, that never got a park. And some of it's your want list. Oh, right. Of dream projects that you would like to design or that you feel should exist, like there was a Godzilla one. Yeah, so this is before I got into the industry and I thought, you know what?

I've been thinking about rides all my life. Why not just make up some? And so I did some just design studies and I'm a huge Godzilla fan. So, excuse me, went right to, you know, creating a dark ride roller coaster. But you know, there are Godzilla attractions now, like they're building them in Japan, there's some sort of a. I think we're in a Godzilla anniversary actually this year.

Oh, did we pass? Was it 55? So yeah, this is 70. Yeah. Like 70. Yeah. Oh, no, no, no, I'm sorry. The first Godzilla is 54.

Okay. I'm a year off. Last year. Okay. Sorry. Yeah. Hang my. Yeah. Oh, no, no, no. I'm sorry. The first Godzilla is 54. Okay. I'm a year off. Last year. Okay. Sorry. Yeah. Hang my head in shame. But, you know, when it comes to IP that has not yet been exploited, the one I'm still,

if I ever get the chance to pitch it, is Tracy Islands. I was a giant Thunderbird, or Thunder, Thunderbirds geek growing up. Thunderbirds. A Thunderbirds reference. A Thunderbirds area. You know, you could build the islands and each one of the Thunderbird vehicles has its own attraction. You'd have the little Thunderbird or the submarine thing

and then the rocket, and then you could have the, you know, the international space station tour, but just do it all in that mid-century 60s vibe. And every character and everything is a marionette. Like that would be unnegotiable. That's so sad. Sid Croft would love you for that.

There you go. Yeah. Dave, same question. Any IP, any, I know you're a Tron guy. Yeah. By the way, bless your heart for saying you were a fan of Larry Cohen's The Stuff, which is, which is having its 40th anniversary this year.

And only I would know that, and maybe you. All Larry Cohen films. We had Larry on the podcast. I'm gonna send you a link. Wonderful larger than life character. I loved, loved, loved that movie. But same question, any IP, if somebody wrote you a blank cheque,

and ideally one that doesn't exist. Right, yeah, obviously I'm a Tron super fan, but we and, you know, ideally one that doesn't exist. Right. Um, I mean, yeah, obviously I'm a Tron super fan, but we got our Tron ride. So that's fine. You got the Tron ride. I, you want the stuff ride, the Larry Cohen experience? It's, it's, it's, it's sort of, there's sort of, I'm going to give a, a, a, a two sided answer. On one hand, the other thing that I'm obsessed with because I'm printed on it as a kid is the original Willy Wonka with Gene Wilder. Oh, playing here on the big screen this month.

Yeah, I mean, I imprinted on his, the fact that he was, you know, this dandy fop with a, could deliver devastating shade. I aspired to be that. And the darkness of it and the scariness of it. And like, there's just so much about that movie that is just deep in my soul. I actually have a tattoo of a everlasting gobstopper.

He does. He's holding it up to the camera. Yeah. And so that would be my childhood answer, most likely. I would, and it has to be the original movie. It can't be some reinterpretation from the books. It can't be the modern Johnny Depp reboot. It's got to be the original.

If it's that, I'll go. So you want to build a Wonka land, original Wonka land, Gene Wilder. Yeah. Vintage Wonka land. What, entire park or just a ride, just a detraction? I would say it's a land. It's a land. I would say it's a land.

You walk through the gates and it's, and through the gates and it's a main boat ride. It's possibly some other thrill rides and spinny rides. It's probably a cafe and a candy shop and all that kind of stuff. Like he's opened, finally opened up like, and it's, you would modernize it. Like you say, maybe Charlie owns it now. It's years later or something. Sure. But it has to be the look and feel of that 72 movie for me.

I fully endorse this. From a broader perspective. Robert fully endorses this. Um, but it has to be the look and feel of that 72 movie for me. Um, but from a broader perspective, Robert fully endorses this. Yeah. Right. From a broader perspective, that's a lot more freeing cause you're not tied to that specific one would be, I think it's a crime that we have not seen anything based on Lord of the Rings. And why is that? Uh, the, I, I don't know this for a fact, but I

would assume it's the, the Tolkien family. The it's, it's, it's, it's a challenging brand to deal with. Um, and then you also have, can it be based on the movies? Probably not. Can it be based on the Amazon series? Probably not.

So it would be its own interpretation of it. Maybe with the success of all their Harry Potter lands, maybe Warner Brothers could put them somewhere in the world, but they don't own and operate parks. They just licensed the IP to people. But Lord of the Rings as a world, and the Hobbit for that matter,

as a world would be an interesting land. It's funny, people say like, oh, do a whole theme park of that. Why didn't they do a whole theme park of Star Wars? And I'm like, when you really count on, start counting on what are the things you can do in the Star Wars world, it's not 25 or 30 different rides. Right. I'll, I'll die on this Hill that it's like, you can't, it's, it's a theme park

has to be a good meal and it can't all be steak, right? You can't have a steak appetizer and a steak entree and a steak dessert and a steak cocktail. It's got to be different. And so the idea of one large park that's one IP, yes, it's a big IP and it's a big world, but the activities you do in those things that need to translate into attractions, it starts to get small when you have the aspir operational things that you want to do in that world. And so I'm a firm believer that constraint is good in this business and Robert will probably agree with me that it's easy to think of blue sky as, hey, we can do anything.

It's blank check. But it's also nice to know what box you're filling. And for me to say, all right, you have a land to do Lord of the Rings with, you know, four attractions. Great. I'd rather do that than try to spread it thin over an entire park. Well, who doesn't want to go to Lord of the Rings land and Wonka land now and, and, and, and ride Robert's Godzilla ride. This is Robert and Dave's new theme park. Yeah. The geekville is going to be called geekville. So somebody needs to write you guys a check. Yes, please.

You know, thank you. Thank you, Frank. Speak that a little louder. This is a, this is a topic we could go on and on. And you know, I'll have you guys back if you, if you're willing to come back. Oh, absolutely. Because we didn't get to, we didn't get to Petticoat junction amusement park. We didn't get to, we didn't get to dog patchpatch. We didn't get to Dogpatch, the USA, the Al Cap Park,

and some of these other odd ones. Magic World, which you told me about, Robert, and Pigeon Forge, which I looked up, which had a 100-foot volcano with an 80-foot freshwater aquarium. But there's so much to cover next time, but I want to know before we get out of here, from the roller coaster expert, uh, from the

roller coaster expert, Robert, top three roller coasters. Well, okay. This is, I'm going to qualify. Put you on the spot. Because yeah. You. And I don't write them by the way, but I'll

tell my wife. Sure. Sure. I mean, you know, there are different kinds of roller coasters and there are roller coasters designed to appeal to very specific audiences. So, you know, for me, as a purely emotionally satisfying experience, Disneyland Space Mountain with that onboard audio, incomparable.

Like I just love, I just rewrote it again a couple of weeks ago. I mean, it just went, when the speakers are really booming and you're just, oh, it brings me to tears. I don't know why I just, I mean, being an outer space the speakers are really booming and you're just, oh, it brings me to tears. I don't know why I just I mean, being an outer space science fiction guy, like, again, I didn't have to imagine I'm riding a rocket ship. I'm riding a rocket ship throughout space and to this stunningly beautiful Michael G. Chino score. And they brilliantly calibrate, you know, the speed of the train with the music.

So there are these built in flourishes in the music that can be lengthened or shortened so that when you hit that next turn, you're hitting the musical beat at exactly the right time. It's just brilliant. But in terms of Roth, the rails, I got to say there's a wooden roller coaster at holiday world called the voyage and it is just, I mean, it does everything except go upside down. Where's this one now? Say again.

Um, so there's a park in, in Indiana called holiday world, which is arguably the world's first theme park that also gets a little muddy, um, but started as, as one of these Santa Claus villages that were very popular around the country. And then eventually started adding other themed areas, including Halloween. And then they opened a Thanksgiving section and it was a pretty clever way to theme a roller coaster to Thanksgiving by making it about the pilgrims voyage, but whatever. But it is, it's just huge opening run with giant airtime hills and then spiraling

in the woods and then diving underground for this. There's an underground triple dip, which at night is, will change you as a human. It's phenomenal. So good. Um, you know, and then everything else I'm like, I just tell people there are so many different kinds of roller coasters, ride them all, find the one you like. That's your favorite. Don't listen to me.

Don't listen to anybody else. Yeah. Yeah. Is there room in your fantasy for the violent violet Beauregard coaster that Dave is, Dave is, is sketching as we speak, or is it an uncle, is it the uncle Joe? You're riding a bed. Exactly. And you've got to squeeze in next to three old people just to line up.

Very, very detailed. Yeah. Listen, whatever Dave is going to do for the Willy. I, I'm, I'm fully on scene. Yeah, you're hired. I'm ready. Dave, you said something on a podcast that I listened to and it was, it touched me that you, you, one of the most gratifying things, and I'm ready. Dave, you said something on a podcast that I listened to, and it touched me.

One of the most gratifying things, and I'm sure Robert has experienced this as well, one of the most gratifying things about your line of work is when you go to a park and you don't identify yourself to the fans and to the writers, but you watch them experience it. Yeah. Yeah. It's... When we build these things, first of all, in a 30 year career, the amount of things have actually built versus the things we've

imagined and written and created. What's the ratio? It's staggering. It's a 10,000 to one. Like it's just, it's, it's incredible. Like this, this industry is very speculative and I've done a lot of creative work over 30 years and, and built a one giant theme park with 28 rides in it and Men in Black and a handful of other

attractions around the world. But it's not a lot. And so we live with these things for so long. And so when they do get made, that is a long gestation process and a long complicated production. It's yours. Like everybody, when you have a team involved in this, it's a labor of love and everybody identifies with it and imprints on it and it's your thing. Right.

There's a moment in this process where it's not mine anymore and it has to happen. And sometimes that's painful because it's operations sort of ripping the keys away from you and the security guard doesn't know your face anymore and you don't have the access badge. But I mean more from an emotional level. And that is when I walk into an attraction that we finished and is open, I'll sit by the exit and I'll just listen to people coming out talking about it.

How nice. And it's an education and it's a catharsis and it's moving and it's humbling because sometimes stuff doesn't work. And it's not an industry that celebrates its artisans and creators the same way movies and TV do, though it's equally as collaborative and multidisciplinary. So we're kind of anonymous and that's not good or bad. I appreciate that the work stands for itself.

And, and I think that there's a moment when I see someone's reaction to something where I know that they've built an ownership, an emotional ownership in their heart, and that they're going to go see this thing for the rest of their lives. That's nice. It's going to be a thing they pass down to their family and to their kids and tell stories about.

That's sure. That's a family bonding thing too. It's incredible. I, we never know when that's going to happen. And when it does, that's the moment that I go. All right. I'm done. That's why we sweat the bullets.

Yeah. That's why you sweat the bullets. You've, you've, but you realize you've chosen wisely. It's gotta be rewarding. Same thing. Same thing, Robert, you must've but you realize you've chosen wisely. It's got to be rewarding. Same thing. Same thing, Robert, you must've had that experience. Yeah.

So the first attraction that I was kind of a lead creative on that open was the forbidden caves, this immersion tunnel in Belgium. And so that was the first time I went over and met my friend in London and we rented a car and I drove over and got to, you know, just, just like you were saying, they've just sit there anonymously and experience it and there's a pre-show with a live performer who's kind of setting up the story, but it was all in Dutch. And so I'm hearing this random thing, but listening to the audience like laughing and then, Ooh, and like, Oh, like they were really getting into it. And

I'm like, Oh my God, this is, I mean, pinch me. I died at the operating table. Yeah, it is. It is. It is very, very addictive. Very addictive. But I, today's point too, like, you know, not everything it's like, there are so many people involved in building these kinds of things and they bring so much to the table. And like at some point, it's like, okay, you know, I've kind of teed it up, but now it's just going to come to life thanks to all these other people and decisions are going to get made. They're your babies. It's like film, the way filmmakers talk about when they're always

asked what's your favorite film. And, you know, they always have a hard time answering it because they're all, they're all, they're all children. Yep. So congratulations to both of you guys. Thanks for the entertainment. Thank you. It's just a pleasure to be here. And not just for today.

I'm going to leave you with a very bizarre piece of trivia before we do the plugs. I was talking about the Sid and Marty coaster, the crystal, excuse me, the crystal carousel to my friend Barry Greenberg, who's a talent booker. And he said, you know, the actor who played Grizzly Adams, Dan Haggerty, acquired the animals in the Crystal Carousel and kept them in his garage. No! What?

Look at Dave's. Where are they now? Look at Dave's face. I never heard that. Well, he passed away. I mean, if you want to find these things that are made of unimpressive resin that are, that are, that were just, it's impressive.

It's just heavy sitting. Yeah. How did we get them out of there? Sitting in his garage, at least he said at least two or three of the animals. Oh my goodness. I had, I had, I had to bring it up cause it's so bizarre. And I'll do, I'll connect you to, to, to Barry. Maybe there's, there's, there's one of the story.

I would love to know what became of them. I mean, so little of that park exists. I actually took a tour of the CNN studios there that are there now with a friend about four or five years ago, and he knew my love of the park. And he took me into a back storage room with a flashlight and pointed up to a corner of the room and there was a bit of mural that was still behind. Yeah. Yeah.

It was incredible. Feed park's great. Yeah, yeah. It was incredible. Feed park archeology. Yeah, totally. Let's plug Robert's roller coaster book. Roller Coasters, A Thrill Seekers Guide to the Ultimate Scream Machines. Robert, you know I love your YouTube page as well, where you visit not only parks and attractions,

but you visit cool stores like the Galco Soda Store, which is near and dear to my heart in California, and also movie sets and museums you visit cool stores like the Galco Soda store, which is near and dear to my heart in California, and also movie sets and museums and other interesting places. That is also a rabbit hole to go down. And plug the Ocean Park book, the Pacific Ocean Park book.

Oh yeah, so again, it's Pacific Ocean Park by Chris Merritt and Dominic Fiori. Chris Merritt? Merritt, yeah. Merritt, it's Pacific Ocean Park by Chris Merritt and Dominic Fiore. Chris Merritt? Merritt. Merritt and Dominic Priore. Yeah. Chris is a former, former Imagineer in California theme park history. We like to give the listeners a reading list.

Yeah. Oh, by the way, and let me just to piggyback on the music history. So at Pacific Ocean Park, there was this bizarre suspended dark ride called the Magic Carpet, a la Peter Pan at Disneyland. That attraction ended up at Magic World in Pigeon Forge. And I was like, wait, there's that Magic Carpet right? What? Huh? So I thought there may have been multiple, but maybe that's the only one. But I also read on a music website that apparently the bass player of Steppenwolf used to go to POP and loved the Magic Carpet Ride and that was the basis of their song Magic Carpet Ride. You're blowing me away. Stop it!

Now, that's third, you know, I don't know how legit that is, but. That's incredible. I love that. What is the origin behind Wilfred Brimley's, I can't even get this. Can't even get it out. I threw the page away. What, the diabetes? The diabetes park. Yeah, the diabetes water park. What was it, Josh?

The triple D water park? The Triple D. Yeah. Is there a secret origin behind that park? Each one of the attractions is based on one of the movies. So there's like a cocoon ride. Right. There's a firm ride. There's a, they only serve oatmeal.

That's the only thing. Everything is oatmeal based in all of the restaurants. That is what it is. See? Somebody write this down. Somebody should be taking notes. I'm going to recommend this book, this wonderful book, Robert, that you told me about, Stephen Silverman's book called The Amusement Park.

Oh yes, that's another. Of 400 pages. I mean, this book, this guy, the fact that he spent so much of his life doing this work, this is the Lord's work, putting that book together. It really is. Individual projects that you guys can talk about, Dave, anything? Nothing that I'm working on now. Send people to the Men in Black ride. Well, yeah, Men in Black just celebrated its 25th anniversary at Universal Orlando.

I know, right, Robert? I know. It's quarter century. But it's got a huge fan club on Facebook with like 10,000 members. It's, it's, it's a, it's a, the very few attractions get to that age, especially at a park like universal where they're sort of reinventing themselves every couple of years, so I'm super grateful. It's still there. I don't work for universal anymore, but if you're down there in Orlando, it's

tell them, yeah, Dave, they'll be like, who was that? Um, um, yeah, it's a, that's a good one. That's a, that's a real good one. I'm sure you're proud of it and you, you, you have reason to be. Robert, same question. Well, anything coming up, can you talk about it in encoded language or should we just direct people to your, your, your YouTube page? So we, so again, super 78, we were kind of the lead creatives for this new Mattel Adventure

Park. Yeah. There are a lot of people lead creatives for this new Mattel Adventure Park. They're undergoing some delays. The park was supposed to open a little sooner than it has, so it's under construction. I hope when that opens, I'd urge you all to go. We had a ton of fun and there are some really fun attractions based on Mattel toys. Has the mega success of the Barbie movie helped, uh,

help propel this, this park forward? Uh, they not connected. No, well, I, yeah, there's, I, I, I. It's based on the toy, not the movie, you know, so it's based on the toys. It looks like he has to kill me to tell me the answer, so I'm not going to, I'm not going to press on. I have a pin on my backpack when I travel that says all my best work is under NDA.

So it's just, just so people know, like I can't, but, but you, but folks can go to Dave Cobb.com if they want to find all my other podcasts and links to work and my YouTube channel too, and all, and blue sky and all that stuff. And listen to Robert's podcast too. Oh, well first of all, it's not mine. Doug Barnes. Season pass. He's the man.

Season pass. You and Doug. But one more quick plug. So I did create a little line of t-shirts. What does that say? Dr. Hackenslash's Asylum of Terror. Are you selling those? I am.

Oh, good. I had this, this crazy idea to do a line of t-shirts based on fictional parks that no longer that don't exist but that were like if parks in the 20s 30s and 40s and 50s could have done souvenir t-shirts we do today so thank you thank you but where do we find them on your on your website go to thrill rags dot com thrill rags r-a-g-S, thrillrags.com. We're gonna move some product, buddy. I would be very grateful.

Thrillrags. This is my favorite, and it was kind of based on those like midnight spook show posters from the 50s. Oh yeah. I love, Dr. Groucho played a character called Dr. Hackenbush. Not Dr. Hackenslash, but close enough. What a great idea to do t-shirts based on defunct rides and attractions.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It's inspired. Well, you know, it's print on demand, man. It just makes it so viable. Well, I told Bennett, our mutual friend Bennett Yellen, who wrote Dumb and Dumber with the Farreles and has done wonderful. Genius.

Is a genius in his own right. I said, I want to do a show about amusement parks. This is something that's fascinated me for a long time, particularly defunct ones and lost ones. And he said, got the two guys for you. I'll call them right now. And this episode came together in about 12 hours. So I, well, not the research part, just the booking part.

But I have to thank you guys, uh, for, for entertaining, uh, as I said, the masses, but also me and our listeners. This has really been, you'll should pardon the expression, a great ride. Thank you so much. It's been great to be here. Glad to, glad to come back anytime. And we'll tell people it's summertime. Get out to the parks.

Get out. Absolutely. Right. Now's the time to go. Get your stuff, get your family, get out there, see the new stuff. Thank you both Thank you to Bennett Yellen as I said Thank you for Andrew Capone and Bobby Hutch and Josh Chambers and Dino Persepo who are here with us our friend Steven Toll

Here at City Fox Studios Michelle Mantien and John Seals and the whole he-haw gang I hope you guys will come back down the line and and we'll we'll talk more about the things that we didn't get to. Anytime, anytime. This was such a blast. I knew it was going to be. Oh, you guys are great. Thank you so much. Guests of Fun For All Ages stay at the Omni, a pinball's throw away from a Lidsville theater.

Fun For All Ages is produced by Frank Santopadre, Genevieve Stirbens, and Andrew Capone. Post-production supervisor Bobby Hutch. Social media, Josh Chambers. Thanks for watching!