Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Michelle Phillips (Part 2)

Episode Date: May 3, 2021

In this conclusion of a 2- part episode, actress, singer and Rock & Roll Hall of Famer Michelle Phillips talks about transitioning from music to films, hosting star-studded Hollywood parties, locking horns with Rudolph Nureyev, befriending Groucho Marx and her final conversations with group mates John Phillips and Cass Elliot. Also, Brian Wilson searches for inspiration, Jimi Hendrix burns his Stratocaster, Mia Farrow visits the Joshua Tree and Michelle hangs with Elvis, Cary Grant and Gregory Peck. PLUS: The Mugwumps! Monterey Pop! "The Man with Bogart's Face"! Leslie Caron swings! Otis Redding brings down the house! And Michelle pens the second verse of "California Dreamin'"! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Wish you were a better investor? Then stop wishing and start listening. With Dynamic Funds On The Money podcast series, you'll get timely insights to help you become a savvier investor. From retirement planning and investing to the latest market trends, the On The Money with Dynamic Funds podcast series covers it all. Get On The Money. Search On The Money with Dynamic dynamic funds and follow today.

The Scorbet app here with trusted stats and real-time sports news. Yeah, hey, who should I take in the Boston game? Well, statistically speaking. Nah, no more statistically speaking. I want hot takes. I want knee-jerk reactions. That's not really what I do. Is that because you don't have any knees?

Or... The Scorebet. Trusted sports content. Seamless sports betting. Download today. 19 plus. Ontario only. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please go to connexontario.ca Hey guys, Frank here, and thanks for checking out the continuation of our two-parter with Rock and Roll Hall of Famer Michelle Phillips.

As we said last week, there was a lot to unpack here, as the kids say, and one episode wasn't going to cover it. So we decided to break it into two, and assuming you heard part one last week. So enjoy part two. We talk a little bit about everything. Michelle's Hollywood career, making Ken Russell's Valentino and the man with Bogart's face,

who remembers that one. Lots more about John and Denny and Cass, including Cass's reaction to that well-known lyric about her in Creek Alley. We'll talk about Michelle's adventures and her encounters with people like Elvis and Groucho and Gregory Peck and Cary Grant and a few other people.

Gilbert throws in some well-timed impressions. We talk about the Mamas and the Papas at Monterey Pop and a lot more. There's a little bit of everything here. So enjoy part two of our chat with Michelle Phillips. Tell us about the old days, though us about coming to new york you were not you were you were a california person you were not prepared for the cold weather of new york i like the story that you had what you had you went out and you bought like a backless dress or something and you were and evening slippers and you were freezing where where did you live in the 70s, by the way? I'm on 74th Street now.

We were on 72nd and Madison. Oh, about three blocks from here. Uh-huh. It was a very nice building. Money was not a problem for us because John was making a lot of money in The Journeyman. And I was making, the minute I started modeling, I started to make a lot of money. Right.

And I got to keep all of my own money. And I could do whatever I wanted with it. And it was fabulous. But New York wasn't for you. When I told friends that I was going to go to New York to meet John, they said, oh, you have to get yourself a wool dress. I said, okay. So I went to Orbox in L.A.,

and I bought myself the most adorable sleeveless, backless wool dress you've ever seen. I didn't have any gloves. I didn't have any gloves. I didn't have a hat. I didn't have any shoes. That's interesting. You know, someone could have told me

I'd never been in snow before in my life. I know. That's fascinating. It's almost like psychologically you're rejecting the idea of New York. You don't have the clothing for it.

Well, it was at that point, that early on, that I just started bitching and moaning about it and saying, John, I want to go back to California. Why can't we live in California? Mitchie wants to go to the sea. Yeah. Right. And you tell us some of your experiences

on Valentino, like you and Nouriev. Well, you, you never knew who you were sitting down next to in the makeup trailer at six o'clock in the morning

he was either this really adorable russian guy with tales of growing up you know in russia and eating nothing but potatoes or you had this monster sitting next to you who didn't know his lines. And if he did know his lines, you couldn't understand a word he said because he did not. He was so miscast in this. Ken Russell was hoping that that wonderful thing that he had on the ballet stage would translate into film. But he felt very insecure and inadequate. And if there's one thing you do not want is a star who is insecure and inadequate.

Because he would have these tantrums. And he would slap everybody. He, you know, the only person that I know of on the set that he did not slap was Ken. Wow. was Ken. Wow. And I came down to the set one morning and my chair was right next to Rudolph's chair and then Ken Russell and he was having a fight with Ken going on and on about, I'm not going to say these stupid words. I'm not going to do this scene. I'm not going to do it. And Ken would say, but it's written. It's a good scene. You know, probably wasn't a good scene, but nonetheless. And so I did a very stupid thing. I butted in and I said, well,

I butted in, and I said, well, Rudy, is there something you'd rather say? And he turned around, and I saw this snake looking at me, and he slapped my hands as hard as he could, and he said, this is none of your fucking business. and he said, this is none of your fucking business. So at that point he got up. I think he thought I might have gone a little too far here. He got up, and his butt was right in front of me.

So I hauled off, and I slapped his butt as hard as I could. And he put his hands on his buttocks and he started scurrying across the floor saying, you little cunt. You little cunt. My God. And he did this in front of 350 extras, by the way. Wowee. And then he was very upset when it was in the afternoon newspaper. And he just got up and ran to his trailer. He would not come out.

And so Ken told us all to go home. And I got a call from Ken that afternoon and he said, Michelle, there will not be any more shooting on Valentino until he apologizes to you. I said, oh, please don't. No. I just want to get on with this scene. Just say, let's call it a truce and get back to work. And we did. And it was not the happiest shoot that you could imagine. I was in England for six months doing it, and I had China with me. I had a great townhouse on Cadogan Square,

and it was really fun to be in England with all the, you know, the stones and, and, and, and Warren did come over a couple of times, you know, all, oh, it's so great to see you. But, you know. Sounds like it could have been a different, a different movie experience with a different co-star. Yeah. Somebody not so angry and petulant. Yeah. Even Leslie Caron hated me. I mean, I think that Warren actually came over to see Leslie because Leslie was an old girlfriend of his.

Oh, interesting. And Leslie and I got along fine until one morning I came into the trailer and she said, well, let me just preface this by saying that she used to tell me that she had an open marriage with her husband, Michael. And I said, really, how does that work?

She says, it's worked out beautifully for us. We are never bored and we don't restrict each other's lives. And I said, oh, great. So one day I walk in and she said, your girlfriend Susanna took off with my husband. And I said, Susanna? I don't know any Susannas. I said, I only know one Susanna, and she's married to Richard Silbert.

And she said, that's her. And she never spoke to me again on the set. Why was it your fault? Because Susanna was my friend. I see. And so I had to, you know. Right. It got a little testy towards the end because, you know,

Rudolph and Leslie would only speak to each other in French. And yet you got along with the tempestuous Ken Russell. I loved Ken. A real character. Oh, he was such a character. He was so funny and so much fun to be around. And his wife did all the costumes and they were great. She was really...

It's a beautiful movie to look at. Yeah. And you knew, or at least met Elvis? I met Elvis once when John took Ann Marshall and I to Vegas. And we saw him performing in his white leather suit. And he was, it was, it was towards the end. But it was great because we went backstage, and he's like, oh, man, I'm so touched that you guys would come see me.

I'm such a big fan. I'm such a big fan and it was just great to have met him because I was a big fan tell us about since we're talking about famous names and icons tell us about these famous parties that you guys

held in the what was Jeanette McDonald's old house you talk about it in the book and everybody would come to these parties that you guys threw. You met Sinatra. Uh-huh. Sinatra would come and Mia.

Brando. Brando. Yeah. And it was really interesting because we had Zsa Zsa Gabor. I mean, you wouldn't think of the Mamas and the Papas attracting this guest list. And Frank, when we were talking, said he wasn't sure, but was Groucho Marx? Groucho, Jeremy Groucho? Oh, Groucho Marx? Did you ever meet Groucho? Oh, Groucho and I became very good friends.

Oh, good. We're glad we asked. Yeah, yeah. I, you know, in interviews, people many times ask you, is there someone that you have not met that you'd love to meet? And everybody, of course, would say John Lennon or, you know, a contemporary. And I said, I would just love to meet Groucho Marx. Wow.

marks wow and um jack and i had gone to a fundraiser for uh mcgovern and we were out in the garden and it was packed with people and i was strolling around and i thought jack was on a chair trying to get my attention, and then he pointed down, and he said, Groucho. Wow. I came running back and practically threw myself at his feet. I think I actually did throw myself at his feet. And I said, I'm so glad to meet you. I'm Michelle Phillips. He said, that's great, honey.

That's great. You want to go out sometime? And Groucho used to go to the Daisy, which is a club that we all went to in beverly hills and um uh i wish i could find it it was in a magazine called show it was a whole it was apage ad, a drawing of Groucho and Michelle Phillips. He's in a tux, and I'm in a long, slinky black dress. And it says, Michelle and Groucho at the Daisy. We'd love to see that picture.

I wish I could find it. I don't have it. So if anybody out there has Show Magazine and the ad for the daisy that says Groucho and Michelle, please let me know. Was there one party for 900 people or 800 people or these insane – how did you do this? How did you pull this off? How did you pull this off? How did you have these massive parties? I don't know. How do you get 900 people into a party? Well, the house, the house was a good size house. It was just that, you know, who do you turn away? Right, of course. You know, we had a cop at the door.

It got so out of control that at one point, I remember John and I were standing in the foyer, and we saw these people walking down the steps from the upstairs bedrooms, and they've got our gold records under their arms. And John says, where are you going with those? And the guy says, oh, you want these? And then he put... A party guest was walking out with your gold records?

Good Lord. Yeah. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast after this. win in a new game at Circle K? Check! With Circle K's Summer Road Trip game, you can win over a million delicious instant prizes and a grand prize of $25,000. Play at games.circlek.com

or at participating Circle K stores. This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In Season 3, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade a michelin star with golden globe and emmy wins the show starring jeremy allen white

io debris and maddie matheson is ready to heat up screens once again all new episodes of fx's the bear are streaming june 27 only on disney plus can i can i ask you a couple of questions from listeners, Michelle? Mm-hmm. This one's about Monterey Pop. Edward McDonald, I'd like to know if Michelle has memories of Jimi Hendrix's performance at Monterey. To me, it's one of the great live performances ever recorded. Now, you've said that you were very young and you did not understand the setting the guitars on fire and the smashing of the no it didn't make any sense to you i had never seen anything like that and i thought it was awful because you know we always cherished our instruments you know uh you always kept them in their guitar cases and their banjo cases

and you I didn't this was the beginning you have to remember this was the beginning of kind of rock and roll theater and that's what it was but I didn't understand that and I didn't like it

and but I liked Jimi Hend but I like Jimi Hendrix. I like Jimi Hendrix. Yeah. I assume it's the first time you saw The Who live too. Yes. Yeah. Didn't like that either.

And you, when you were, there was a story that you were visiting John Phillips when he was in the hospital oh at the very end yeah I am probably the last one who ever saw him alive because

I went in late at night and it was very sad, really. There was just a blue light on over, and you could see his drawn face, and he was asleep. And I just stood there by the bed and looked at him, And then he opened his eyes and he looked at me. And he said, Mitch, Mitch. And I told him, I said, I just want you to know that you made me the woman I am today. Wow.

And I want to thank you for that. And then I leaned down and I gave him a kiss and he was just smiling and I said, you want me to come back and see you again? He said, yes, I do. And so I said, I'll come back. And he was dead by morning. So I think I was probably the last person that he knew, maybe nurses or doctors or something. That was a kind thing you said to him in that moment. Yeah. I mean, I went through so much with John the good the bad and the ugly I'll tell you

but it's really hard to hold a grudge against someone who was so funny and so talented and so instrumental in who I became that really I just was glad that I got to see him that last time and go out on a good note.

And you were the last person, I believe, to talk to Cass, too. You had a phone. She called from London. She called me the night of. Yeah. From Harry Nielsen's flat. Mm-hmm. And she was crying.

But she was crying with joy. She said, I sold out every show. Yeah. And I'm on my way. And I'm not going to be Mama Cass anymore. She was Cass Elliott, and I've said this before, you know, when Cass Elliott died,

she died a very happy woman, and she did not choke on a ham sandwich. No, that was just a silly a silly myth that was a famous urban legend i know but so many people believed it yeah because that's what they that's what they heard on the news yeah it was accepted now i heard there was also a story that Cass Elliott... Is this the conk on the head story? Yes. Yes. That she received a head injury that improved her singing.

That's not true. I know John pushed that story like mad, but it's not... I think Danny pushed it too. He might have, but all you not. I think Danny pushed it too. He might have. But, you know, all you have to do is listen to Cass singing with the big three. That was before the Mamas and the Papas. And she is, I mean, Cass had to learn how to blend because she was used to being out there, being the soloist. And she could belt out a tune.

But she didn't have a range problem. She could sing as high as John wanted to arrange something. She didn't have a problem with that. Her only problem was learning how to sing with my little voice and having it blend together. And that made for a really pretty sound. Which leads me to my next question.

Wasn't a head injury? No, there was no head injury. It's a good story. She was hit on the head by a pipe. She was walking past a construction site in the Virgin Islands, and this pipe fell and hit her on the head. Yeah, I should clarify, there was an incident, but it didn't change her singing voice. No, it didn't change her singing voice. No, no, it didn't. But that's how John wanted to,

he wanted to make it sound like he always wanted her in the group. She just wasn't capable because she didn't have the range. Well, that's obviously ridiculous when you listen to her voice in the Mamas and Papas, and you listen to her voice in the Big Three, and you listen to her voice even in the Mugwops. I mean, she always had a great range, and she was a belter.

I love her solo career too. I'm sticking with the head injury one. Gilbert's not going to let it go. I love Michelle's solo, Cass' solo career too. Make your own kind of music and it's getting better. She did some really wonderful work.

Yeah, she did. Nobody can tell you There's only one song worth singing they may try and sell you cause it hangs them up to see someone like you

but you've gotta make your own kind of music sing your own kind of music. Sing your own special song. Make your own kind of music. Even if nobody else sings along. The voice thing leads me to another question from a listener, Mike Thompson.

Can Michelle share her thoughts on Herman, the mysterious fifth voice in the band that could be heard by the singers? Oh, is it Harold? No, no, no. Harold was the car. Not Herman. It's a harmonic. It's some kind of a harmonic that happens, and it sounds like there's another voice singing. You know, we would listen back to the playbacks and we would definitely hear another voice.

Yeah, it's just something that happens, the harmonic that happens when you get those vibrations going. Adler tells that great story of Denny being passed out on the piano when you guys were... He tells the story in the documentary, An Echo in the Canyon. Which time? You guys had... I mean, the booze was flowing in the studio.

Denny had passed out. He was sound asleep, and he needed a line, and they dropped the mic while Denny was half asleep. Oh, yes. Lou Adler position. Yeah, it's true.

From his slumber. Yeah, that piano really got a workout, too, I'll tell you, because I remember when John and Lou wanted Cass to sing the lead to Words of Love, she was being interviewed. And so John and Lou were in the booth, and she's in the studio with this reporter. And they say, Cass, can we get you to do this lead now? And she says, no, I'm busy.

And so, you know, she goes on talking about, you know, her life to this. Cass, can we get you? Just go do that. No, I'm busy. I'll do it in a little while. Finally, they said, Cash, just pick up the fucking mic. Get up on the piano. There's a great big Steinway.

Mm-hmm. And sing the song. She says, oh, for Christ's sake. So she picks up the microphone. She actually crawls up on the Steinway and stands there. And she says, roll them. And she sings that song in one take. And it's so beautiful.

And she throws the mic down. Wow. And she says, got it, Lou? He says, perfect. That's a good story. You had dealings with Brian Wilson, too. You knew him. Well, I knew Brian, yeah, because Brian, Lou, and John used to play basketball together. Were you struck when you saw the room full of sand in Brian's house? It was so funny because, you know, I had been there several times, you know, and they had a regular living room, you know.

One day I went over there and I see that they've taken everything out of the living room and filled it with sand and the only thing in the living room was the piano and the piano stool that was that was it and so Marilyn comes down and I'm kind of looking into the living room she says I know I know I know it's weird. But he's writing some great songs. It's great. I love that it inspires him. And he was writing Pet Sounds.

Wow. Yeah. Wow, wow, wow, wow. Did John Phillips have a thing going with Mia Farrow? Yes. I don't know how you knew that, but... Wow, Gilbert. You're like Lona Barrett. She was married to Frank Sinatra at the time.

I believe she was. And I had just had China. And China was just a few days old. And she was very friendly with me. You know, she just, you know, was very friendly. And one day she said, let's go to Joshua Tree and uh I I don't know if we had been in Joshua Tree before I think we had but the minute we got out there she takes John by the hand and says let's go see the sunset and so they left me there with China, who was about eight days old or 10 days old. And they disappeared and didn't come back until seven o'clock the next morning.

Wow. And yeah, she was she she was pretty brazen about that kind of stuff. I was surprised that Frank didn't have John's legs broken. Gilbert, I don't know where you're getting your information, but that... Well, you know, it was on the cover of either the National Enquirer or the Star or something like that. It's a picture of John and Mia. And then there's a little insert of me, and it says, Mama Mia.

Nicely done. Here's another question about the music, Michelle, from Paul Wexler, who's actually the son of legendary producer Jerry Wexler. And he has a question for you. Did John arrange the harmony arrangements? Did John write those, or was it a back and forth with the four of you working it all out?

No, John wrote it. Mm-hmm. John was really a wonderful vocal arranger. I mean, he could hear parts in his head that... And if it didn't work, you might be trying to get it recorded

for five hours. And he'll say... And they were always very intricate parts. And he'd say, Michelle, I'm going to change your part. And I'd say, no! He to change your part and I say no he'd say yes

I am and then it would work or sometimes we would be in the studio trying to get it right and we couldn't do it and we couldn't do it for a long time and Lou Adler would come out and say I've got it and we couldn't do it for a long time and and lou adler would come out

and say i've got an idea why don't you put the bridge after uh the third verse and come back and do the you know he'd completely change the the the structure of the song. And we'd sing it and we'd say, that's it. That's it. It's perfect. He was open to an idea, somebody else's idea and input. Oh, yeah. To his credit.

Why didn't he like your second verse of California Dreamin'? I love it. He didn't like the whole church thing. First of all, you have to remember, John was in military school, Catholic military school, from the time he was seven years old, all through high school and then uh and then he went to annapolis and he hated the catholic church he hated the military and um and when i i'm that's the only part of California Dreamin' that I wrote

was the second verse and at the end because he woke me up in the middle of the night we did it in the middle of the night and he said I don't know about that verse the church and the praying and all that stuff. I said, oh, well, you know, we'll change it in the morning. But we just never got around to changing it.

It takes the song to another level. I always liked it. Well, most people do. Stopped into a church I passed along the way Well, I got down on my knees And I began to pray You hear me preaching like the cold He knows I'm gonna stay California dreams He knows I'm gonna stay California, California

Dreaming of such a winter's day A lot of people left cold-weather states and headed to California because of that song. And left the Catholic Church. And, well, let's... I won't comment on that. I heard somewhere that you, that all the mamas and the papas, the way they acted, the way they looked,

the way they dressed was different. And John came up with the ideas of what costumes and how you should wear your hair and everything. Well... And no makeup. No makeup. Yeah. He felt that we had an image

and that we were hippies. Don't forget that. Rich hippies. Don't forget that. Rich hippies. Yes. Well, then we got to be rich hippies. But at the beginning, you know, when you see us in the bathtub, those were the clothes we owned. I mean, we didn't have any money at that point.

That was before the album was released, obviously, when we took that picture. But then as we became richer, we started to... Well, actually, it was Mia who introduced us to Profile de Monde and this woman, Toni, who was making, she made all of our stage wear for us. And they were beautiful. They were, you know, Damascus brocades and saris, beautiful Indian saris. And so then we became rich hippies. But John didn't want us.

He would not let us wear heels. I mean, that was just out of the question. He always wanted us to not conform to, you know, we were never going to be wearing long black dresses and high heels, and he wouldn't let me wear makeup even. He said, you know, we're hippies. We're not the Supremes, you know, we're hippies. And, you know, if you put makeup on, she's going to want to wear eyelashes. And if you put your hair up, she's going to want to wear a fall, meaning Cass.

And he wanted to maintain that image of us. Even if we were rich hippies, we were not the Supremes. We were never going to wear glitter. He understood marketing. He understood who you guys were selling to wear glitter. He understood marketing. He understood who you guys were selling to. Yeah, he did. Yeah. He was right.

And he was right. Just tell us a little bit, Michelle, about Laurel Canyon in those days. David Crosby compared it to Paris in the 30s. There was a renaissance going on. You guys were in the middle, smack dab in the middle of it. Well, we were. And Cass was like, they called Cass the Gertrude Stein of Laurel Canyon. She had an open door policy and she was a connector.

And you could go write and leave messages written on her wall. could go write and leave messages written on her wall i mean uh she she just attracted people and she everyone was always welcome and she you know we all knew each other from the folk days right you know when you think about it crosby and uh jiminn were in a folk group. Gene had been in the New Christy Minstrels. Right. We knew everybody from New York. The reason that we had to stay in New York was because that is where the music business was.

You tell that story in the doc. You said when the birds had a hit record, we knew it was time to go. We knew we had to get west. Cass who said, because we're sitting in a bar in the Virgin Islands and drinking beer, and we've got the radio on, and all of a sudden we all kind of stop and we're listening to Mr. Tambourine Man. And John says, is that the birds? And we're all listening really hard. And we say, shit, that is the birds.

And Cass says, well, we got to get back to L.A. because if the birds can have a hit, anybody can have a hit. I love it. I love it. And we ask this of all our musician guests, but tell us about hearing one of your songs and your voice coming out of the radio for the first time. We were actually driving up Laurel Canyon in Harold the Bleak, which was our car.

It was a 1959 Buick convertible. And, and I don't know what we're listening to, either KHJ or KFWB or something. And all of a sudden you hear that little, you know, that little guitar riff, you know. And there's the moment of total shock when everyone just kind of stops and looks at the radio and we start singing and everyone dives for the volume and we turn it up. So great. It was just such a euphoric moment. You know, it was like, we're stars.

We didn't hear it again for months. It took a long time for California Dreamin' to break, and it didn't break until winter, until I think January of 66, it broke in Boston. Yeah, yeah. And here's one I like to ask every singer and songwriter on this show. And here's one I like to ask every singer and songwriter on this show. Is there a song of the Mamas and the Papas, maybe never released,

that you say, this is the worst song we've ever come up with? There is no song that the Mamas and the Papas ever sang that did not get released. We were always so short of material that no matter how awful the song was, it was going on that album. If such a song exists, Gilbert, it's on the last album from 71. And the other thing that I always ask, where do songs come from? Well, that's a really good question.

sometimes it comes from a broken heart because that's, that's probably the easiest thing to write about. But for instance, when John and I wrote Creek Alley, that was one of the most, probably the most joyous experience that I had ever writing a song because it was funny. It was true. It had all these people in it that we had known from the folk days. McGuinn and Maguire

Just to Gettin' Higher in L.A. You know where that's at Yeah, that song is an earworm And then when he John comes up with this lyric And no one's getting fat Except Mama Cass I am just on the floor laughing

Hysterically And I said, oh, that's great What are we really going to say there? He says, thatically. And I said, oh, that's great. What are we really going to say there? He says, that's the lyric. I said, no, John, you can't do that. You can't do that. It's going to hurt her feelings. He says, no, it's not.

And I said, well, I'm not singing it for her. He says, okay, I'll sing it for her. And she was coming over that afternoon for a rehearsal, and she sits down on the couch. She puts a pillow over her stomach, and she says, okay, so what's this song you're writing? And a chill comes over the room, john and i start singing it and when it comes to the lyric no one's getting fat except mama cass i let john sing it and she grabbed the pillow and she threw

it at him and she was laughing and she was totally hysterical and And she said, that is so great. I love that lyric. To her credit. Yeah. She didn't mind. She didn't mind it at all. She really did love the lyric. And no one's getting fat except Mama Cass. And when you hear the record, you can hear her voice above anybody else's.

It's a wonderful song and a clever construction. Yes, very clever. Was a sophomore planned to go to Swarthmore? Like she changed her mind one day. It's just so such a such a wonderfully put together um and and and as i said earlier it's it's an earworm it's a song that i will sing for the rest of my days you you guys did not like famously you and you and cass had negative reactions to monday monday when john first presented couldn't stand it and i really did say that's the most pretentious song i've ever heard and and and and denny wasn't crazy about the song either and and

cass just said that's awful john that's terrible and so finally john made us sing it for Lou and Lou said that's great and I looked at Lou and I said Lou it's not he said as a matter of fact Michelle it's probably your next single wow and I said

I think it's awful and he says well how about you do the singing and I do the releasing? And he knew. And it shot to number one. I mean, in that, the day that it was released, it sold 163 units that day.

It's amazing. That's when records really sold. If they sold, they sold really big. Yeah, we should tell our listeners that we're talking to Michelle and the wall behind her is adorned with framed gold records. So, yeah, in those days.

Ones that your houseguest didn't steal. That's right. Well, we did take them back. You know, it's it's such a magical journey, Michelle, you know, as we do that, that things have to happen for the success of a career. I also found it interesting that you guys always thought your success in some way was was inevitable. You kind of you kind of in some way knew that it was going to happen. But it's it's fun to read the book and see things fall into place. The way you join, the way Denny comes into the picture. You need Cass.

There's a little reluctance. Finally, Cass comes into the picture. Then it's not looking so good. And then Lou Adler, as you said, it was like a religious experience. Yeah. A religious experience. Yeah. It really, it's like throwing 17 passes at the crap table, you know.

It's like anything could have gone wrong. Yeah, but didn't. But didn't. And everything just went right from the beginning. And meeting Lou and working with Lou was unbelievable. And working with... Oh, Bones Howe. Bones Howe. Yeah, Hal Blaine and Glen Campbell.

Hal Blaine, Glen Campbell. But it's just magic how everything happened. Well, you know, also... The stars aligned, if you will. They did, because we had never heard ourselves sing with anything but one guitar. And when we got into the studio and started hearing... These guys were so creative, you know, and we started hearing a track and then singing on the track and then adding strings to the track or whatever, you know.

We would say, oh, my God, listen to us. You didn't know how good you were. We could not believe how beautiful it all came together. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast after this. What are things like now these days? Obviously, you're a grandmother, you're grandmama, Michelle now. It's not just

mama Michelle. You're still coaxed to go on stage every now and then. I saw you performing with Wilson Phillips in 2014. You went out. You did something in 2017 too. Was that a Monterey Pop reunion? Yeah. Concerts. So every now and then do

you, you, you still have the, uh, the itch to go up? Well, it's fun. Is Mitchie still itchy, I guess is the question. It's, it's fun to sing with, with other people. I, I, I wouldn't say that I miss singing, but if somebody, um, you know, if the girls want me to go up on stage with them and sing California Dreamin' with them, I'm scrambling up those stairs. That's nice. You know, because I enjoy it. That's good to hear, and people should watch the documentaries, too, because it's just, it's great history, you know, it's so, it's important history uh i'm gonna plug them you're in both of them laurel canyon and echo echo in the canyon and i'm gonna tell people to get your book because our fans love this stuff we've had a lot of musicians on this show people you know we've had jimmy webb i think you probably

know stephen bishop i i know jimmy webb ken. Kenny Loggins has been here. I knew Jimmy Webb. Paul Williams was here. And we think this is important history, and your book can still be found, California Dreamin', The True Story of the Mamas and the Papas, which was competing with John's book at the time. That's why we had to put the word true in it. We want our listeners to know this stuff, and they are. They're interested, but we're historians here. Yeah, that's great because it is a very American part of history.

And you saw everything. I was telling Gilbert it's not just the music. It's that you were in the San Francisco scene first. You knew Lenny Bruce. You knew mort saul you knew these people and then you were in the new york scene and when everything was happening in the village and then you were in the and then you were a big part of the la scene yeah so you're you're a little bit of a musical zealig if you if you know that reference. And I keep meeting, you know, I mean, I actually had an hour-long conversation with Cary Grant when he was alive. is alive and i got to meet a lot of old hollywood because i met irving lazar and his wife mary and so i was always invited to their their parties and i got to you know i got to meet people that i i watch on uh turner classic movies i heard you're a big TCM fan.

I am, too. And so I have had many different lives. That's why people should read the book. And your childhood is fascinating, too. That's another, you and your friend, that's another fascinating journey. We've had two Turner Classic people on our show. Yeah, we had Ben M turner classic people on our show yeah we had ben mankiewicz recently oh oh that's great and robert osborne was here years ago robert osborne yeah

well you know i i have the luxury now that i don't have to do anything. So I sit around and have my coffee, and then someone brings me my plate of fruit, and I read the New York Times cover to cover and the L.A. Times cover to cover. And then when I'm finished with that, I go out, and I sit myself in front of the television set that I put on Turner Classic Movies. So I watch movies for a couple of hours and, you know.

You're giving yourself the film education that you never had. That's right. You didn't have a TV growing up. No, never. And you weren't a big movie person. John was a big movie person. But now you're getting an education. That's fun.

Who were some of the old movie stars you met that you're really in awe of? Well, Groucho, of course. And Cary Grant. And I met Gregory Peck. And it's funny because I went to a party at his house and I didn't really know a lot of people there and all of a sudden I looked over and Gregory Peck was on the other side of the room

and he was looking at me and he looked at me and he smiled and he put his finger up and he kind of beckoned me to come to him. Well, you've never seen a girl move across a floor. Hilarious. And I met just a lot of people. You worked with Audrey Hepburn and Tony Curtis and you worked with James Mason.

Omar Sharif. Omar Sharif. Would you like to hear Gilbert's James Mason, by the way? Yeah. Go ahead, Gil. Congratulations, my dear. I seem to come just in time. I had a speech all prepared, but it's gone out of my head. You see, I need a job. That's it. I need a job. I'm not constricted to drama. I could do comedy as well.

What do we think, Michelle? Well, I'll tell you. When I worked with James, we had one little scene where he pulls up to our house in the rolls. And I come out, and I'm his very much younger wife. And I've got my hair tumbling down my back. and got my hair tumbling down my back. And I just, in the scene, I go to him, and I put my hands on his face, and I kiss him on the lips. And when we were about a week away from this scene, he says, we have to rehearse a lot. I love it.

Gilbert, do you know who lived in Laurel Canyon maybe before Michelle's time? Boris Karloff. Wow. Yes, he did. But you know, the thing about Laurel Canyon, I have to say this, because rock and roll did not discover Laurel Canyon. Sure. Laurel Canyon was an art colony long before the rock and rollers came.

And, you know, Timothy Leary lived in Laurel Canyon and a lot of actors in the 30s and the 40s and even in the 20s lived in Laurel Canyon. Mary Astor lived on Appian Way. You sort of played the Mary Astor part in The Man with Bogart's Face. No, I was his Gene Tierney fantasy. Oh, Gene Tierney.

That's right. That's right. And I met Omar. What was Gene Tierney's husband's name? I was sitting at a bar once, and this man said, he was sitting next to me, and he says, I can't believe how much you look like my former wife. And I turned to him and I said, I can't believe you're using that line. I've never heard that one.

Oleg Cassini? It was Oleg Cassini, yes. Right, right. And he was married to her twice. And it was about three or four months later that I got the script for The Man with Bogart's Face. And in the script, I play his gene tierney fantasy and i just thought boy if i can't get this part i should get out of the business it's a fun movie so i went to woolworths and i bought myself a a padded bra that made me kind of like a cup, a D cup, because she had a rack, you know, as they used

to say. And I went to 20th Century Fox, and I had them give me a picture of her from the movie Laura. And I went to a makeup artist that morning. And I said, I want you to make my hair look exactly like this and I want you to make my face look exactly like this. And I walked in with this beautiful white dress on and I looked a lot like Gene Tierney at this point. And I walked in, I did my reading, and I went home and the phone was ringing. And it was my agent, and he says, they've made an offer. Oh, that's great.

Yeah, it was fun playing her. You just, you mentioned Laura. And one of my favorite Vincent Price lines is in Laura, where he says, where the guy asked him, do you know a lot about music? And he says, Vincent Price says, I don't know a lot about anything, but I know a little about practically everything. Michelle, as we wind it down I have to ask you you are the last of the Mohicans and you went back into the original studio at

Western Studios part of the doc where you guys recorded that's right I forgot about that how did it feel I mean to be there by yourself and and remembering these wonderful days and i know you worked terribly hard in those days to pull those songs off but it's strange because they've kept studio three exactly as it was and that's

where i socked denny in the face and that's where we heard the first playbacks of the Mamas and the Papas. And it was eerie, but they're lovely memories, really. Very, very nice. I'm glad. You're grateful. Thank you. Yeah, so much wonderful music. Thank you very much. Gilbert?

Yes? Shall we let this lady get to her TCM viewing? Michelle, you've been very generous with your time and with your stories today. We can't thank you enough. Well, it's my pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you very much. I had a lot of fun.

We want to thank those gentlemen who made this possible. Vince Melamed, who is there with you, who is a songwriter in his own right and a very interesting guy. We'll tell our listeners to look him up. Our friend Jim De La Croce, my paisan, and John Sebastian, we have to thank. Who's the best? Who I understand made a godfather call. And again, get Michelle's book. And thank you for so many years of wonderful entertainment, Michelle.

You're welcome. It's really a gift. Thank you very much for asking me on the show. Of course. Of course. Gilbert has to try out his James Mason on someone. Oh, yes. And James Mason on someone. Oh, yes. And James Mason in a Warren Beatty film.

From this point on, you'll have no recollection of Leo Farnsworth. It's your destiny, Joe. All right, so Michelle's going to pick up the phone and she's going to call Warren for us. Oh, God. And tell him to do the show, and Gilbert will treat him to some heaven can wait. Okay. His mailbox is going to be full when this airs.

And before we wrap up, we'll wrap up unless you have some of the dirty words to say. In that case, we'll keep you on for another hour. And Michelle, too, I'm sorry you didn't get to see Otis Redding at Monterey. Yeah, well, I saw the very last end of it, but I saw all the footage, so it was okay. You were off doing a nice thing for Laura Nero. Yeah. And her eyes. It is great to watch that concert film and see you guys in the middle of that.

And that was a great triumph. Well, it was. And that's also the night that I realized I was pregnant with China. Oh. Right after the show. Oh, so extra special memories. Yeah. Of that.

Yeah. People should watch Monterey Pop. That's all I got, Gil. This lady has been so generous. Yes. Terrific. I need some more wine. Come over here.

I'll get you some. What are you drinking, Gil? What do you got, Manischewitz? Well, it's apothic. Apothic red. Michelle, our listeners will love this Okay, I'm glad I try to be entertaining You are massively entertaining

And we thank you from the bottom of our hearts For this time with you Well, thank you, you guys are a great interview Oh, I wasn't interviewing you We'll take it any way it comes. Okay. Thanks to John Murray, too. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast

with my co-host Frank Santopadre and the terrific Michelle Phil. Thank you. We send you kisses and love, Michelle. Thank you so much. Thank you. We send you kisses and love, Michelle. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye. Outside my window was a steeple With a clock that always said 12.30 1230 Young girls are coming

to the canyon And in the morning I can see them walking I can no longer keep my life strong And I can't keep myself from talking At first so strange to feel so friendly So strange to feel so friendly To say good morning and really mean it

To feel these changes happening in me in me But not to know this till I feel it Young girls are coming to the canyon And in the mornings I can see them walking I can no longer keep my life strong

And I can't keep myself from talking I can't keep myself from talking Cloudy waters catch no reflection Images of beauty lie there stagnant Vibration pounds in no direction But my air shatters if you frighten Young girls are coming to the canyon And in the morning I can see them walking I can no longer keep my blinds on

And I can't keep my eyes on Keep my life strong Keep my life strong And I can't keep myself from talking