Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Mini #238: Tales from "The Carson Podcast" with Mark Malkoff (and Phil Rosenthal)

Episode Date: October 17, 2019

This week: The flamboyance of Monti Rock! "The "magic" of Uri Geller! Johnny locks horns with "Saturday Night Live"! Mark (finally) lands Doc Severinsen! And Phil discovers the infamous "Jack Frost" sketch! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. What if we told you you're already off to a great start with so many ways to squeeze the most out of summer right here? From our largest shrimp skewers ever to a Vietnamese-inspired dish ready in minutes, PC makes any culinary adventure an on-budget breeze. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, Colossal Obsessions. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried,

and I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and this is Gilbert and Frank's amazing Colossal Obsessions with Phil Rosenthal and Mark Malkoff. You like the way he says your name? It's okay. Malkoff. It's okay. Malkoff. Yeah.

The Malkoff Vul You like the way he says your name? It's okay. Malkoff. It's okay. Malkoff. Yeah. The Malkoff Vulcan. The Flying Malkoff is my favorite act on Ed Sullivan. Yeah, they were really good. They were great. They were prolific. Mark has been, Phil has graciously agreed to stick around for 25 minutes. I think we have, how much time are you giving us? I actually can't get up.

And Mark is here. Mark has done the show before. He is the host of the wonderful Carson podcast. Phil has been on that show. So has Gilbert. Gilbert has been on the show. I was on the show, and last time I was on, he ends the show,

and he's wrapping up his stuff. He says, oh, I just want you to watch one thing. And he showed me a clip of Carson's monologue where he mentions me in the monologue. And his jaw dropped? Yeah. I couldn't believe it. I mean, Gil's like, can I get a copy? Can we watch it again?

And I was like, of course we can watch it again. And then I was able to get, yeah, Dara a clip through the Carson people who have been very, very nice. But yeah, it was one of those things where I asked you if you thought Johnny ever mentioned you and you said you didn't think so or you weren't sure, but you didn't think so. But the context. Yeah. And this is why

I hate the Jews. Oh. Oh, those Jews say they've been holding me down for years. Because you were getting so much press. You were getting so much press. Hey-oh! I'm with you, Johnny.

Yes. You see what you've wandered into, Mark? You know, I'm just going to take it all in. Nothing worse than Jews, Johnny. Nothing worse. You know my agent's name? Goldberg. Hey-oh!

That's a Jew. Bombastic Bushkin was a Jew. Yeah. You are right, sir. He still is one. He still is one. I'm pretty sure he, yeah. You know, I've not known Gilbert to be starstruck,

but he was in this particular case. Bushkin? No, with the fact that Carson mentioned him. Oh, yeah. I mean, for Gilbert to actually... I think he was like... The one time he was out of character. Well, you were out of character a little bit,

but you just... Yeah, I couldn't believe that you actually cared about something. Yeah. I'm just joking. I was joking about that. You've heard about my parenting skills. Yes, I've heard.

You're going to get better. There's always room to improve. Yes. I heard you interviewing Phil about his Carson experiences you talked about the one night

I think it's only one night that Ed was bombed on air yeah that was true that was the one time do you remember this it was definitely a running joke I remember that clip

I saw that clip it was a running joke that he was always bombed which wasn't true and it was the one time where Joan Embry was gonna be was a scheduled guest

on on that and johnny at one point just says you know you're not fooling anybody um because ed basically says he's like you know i went to see joan embry um doc did you never saw and he's like johnny says it's okay it's all right it's all right it's all right ed it's fine and he's like laughing and we always imitated this in the room. Ed. Oh, Raymond Reier's room? Yeah. Ed was like, but don't say.

And he just dragged. That's it. The end of the line. That clip. Don't say. It showed an evil streak to Johnny Carson in that he was taking advantage. He let him hang himself. Yeah.

I wouldn't make the argument that Ed was the one that was interjecting. Carson was, if you watch, it was trying to introduce Joan Embry, and Ed kept interrupting him and chiming in on things. And, yeah, that's when Johnny just kept trying to do his intro. But, yeah, I guess maybe he enjoyed that a little too much. I don't know. Yeah, you could see he was enjoying it. It was a roast where Johnny is saying hi to everybody on the desk,

and he says, Ed, you big bag of shit. There's also that ad he does for a feminine hygiene product. Yes. Now, let me tell you what happened. Johnny, do you know about this? No. Do you want to set it up? You can set it up.

Well, you set it up because you know it better than I do. What Johnny would do is he would get these advertisers and he would make these internal videos on the side of the Tonight Show that would only be for the company. And, you know, back then it was mostly men. So, it would go very off color. Yes. So, he was talking, was it, what was he talking about when he was doing the tampon? Was it a tampon? It was a feminine hygiene spray.

And then he starts riffing and saying stuff we can't say, well, we probably could say it here. You can only say it on this show. He said, cunt away. Oh, great. It was actually that off, I think. Yeah, something like that. But no, he would do, there's another recording of it. There's another one online, but he would do, yeah, he would do it and these these people would love it there's no youtube they

they knew that no one was ever going to see this um but a couple were leaked but yeah that was like the one time where carson we are would break yeah i'm amazed phil rosenthal didn't know that story that's a good story it's floating around now did jonathan, did Jonathan Winters ever confront Johnny Carson on blatantly stealing? Oh, very good. We talked about this. Yeah, we talked about this. To my knowledge, I think nobody confronted him. And I think that when we were talking or somebody that if the guess was is that people were too nervous because they didn't want they wanted to keep doing the show.

too nervous because they didn't want, they wanted to keep doing the show. I mean, Steve Allen, with Karnak, he was doing a bit, which, you know, Johnny thought was a, he said it was an old vaudeville act.

But everyone was too, like Jonathan Winters loved going on Carson. Near the end, he didn't do it that much, but no one confronted him, as my knowledge, like did, like I mean.

Wasn't Art Fern sort of a Gleason thing too? Oh yeah. And Gleason went on once, but he never, and Reggie Van Gleason, it's, what's that? Was like Reginal of a Gleason thing too oh yeah and Gleason went on once but he never and Reggie Van Gleason it's uh what's up

was like Reginald Van Gleason yeah yes no it was it went 100% and Ant Blabby of course and there was one of the other was it one of the

Smothers Brothers I forget but he was doing something I just think that Johnny was so powerful back then it was the only game that no one no one's gonna risk

um not getting booked on that show. Actually to defend Johnny I think he loved those bits and wanted to do them. So they were homages? I don't think even homage didn't even enter into it

it's like we're all in show business and we're all playing and so he wanted to play too I know that I'm the guy who's supposed to just ask the questions, but I want to play too. And that's why he would go and do, I think that's why. That was the spirit of it as I took it. At the same time, I'd be pissed if I was Jonathan Winters

and you're doing my act. I find it strange that, you know, Carson would do occasional interviews that to my knowledge, no one ever called him out on it. Like just asking him um you know you're doing these characters that have been done before and nobody ever challenged him on it in the press because he would do he would occasionally do these interviews and uh he hated didn't like doing interviews but yeah that's isn't that amazing that no nobody would brought it up to him or no critics that i'm aware of ever. Well, maybe behind closed doors, but I doubt it.

Jonathan Winters is kind of a loose cannon. Oh, he was the best. You can imagine him saying something. Oh, my gosh. You never know. Yeah, maybe him, but he was, oh, my gosh, was he funny on par in Carson. But he told me when I was on the phone with him that, by far, Carson was the best. Because somebody I was with thought it was par, and he's like, no, Carson 100% was the host.

Yeah. The best. You finally got Doc. You've been doing the show for how long, and you finally got Doc Severinsen. We've talked to him. I've talked to him on the phone a bunch of times. I heard the show. It wasn't bad.

Well, I was going to say, let me tell you about this. Let me tell you. His memory is good. So I've talked to him on the phone for four years trying to get him to do this, and he just, for whatever reason, he's like, just email this person and it never happened. So finally, uh, the very wonderful Jeff Sottsing, who's Johnny's nephew, who should be a guest here. I mean, he was a producer on the tonight. So he's the one that, that could, that told doc. And then, um, I'm at the gym. Okay. I, I, and I see that it says doc Severinsen on my cell phone. So I get off that and I'm huffing and puffing.

And he's like, Mark Malkoff. I'm like, yes, Doc, what's going on? He's like, I'm ready. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to come to Tennessee. We're going to sit down and record. He's like, no, you don't understand. We're doing it right now. And I said, see, Dirk Diggler.

And I said, Doc, I'm at the gym. He's like, well, every good reporter has a pencil and paper. And I said, Doc, I'm not a reporter. And what I said is doc, um, I, you know, I'll get on a plane. I'll come see you. He's like, no, we can't, we can't do that. He, you know, he's doing better now he's tours, but he was having some, some health issues at the time. And I was like, okay, we'll do it in two days over the phone, which I didn't. He's like, no, we're doing it right now. And I was like, okay, Doc, we'll do it. Can I have 20 minutes? He said, sure.

So I sprint home sweating. I'm interviewing Doc without a t-shirt, without just sweating. And I did a little research a couple of years ago and I printed it out. Luckily I had it and I just winged it. I just winged it. And he's a really nice man.

I really like him. I think it was just not meant to be, but I finally did get Doc Severinsen, which is not an easy interview. None of that came across. It came across quite naturally. Yeah, I don't usually interview people just in my shorts, but things happen.

And you listen to this show. You've been on the show. I love it. He does deep dives. You got Uri Geller. You got Sir Monty Rock. Oh, gosh, in Vegas? He was an interesting character.

He did two hours on a guy who parked Johnny's car. I know. It's fascinating. Monty Rock. Did Monty Rock have enough career to talk for 90 minutes? Oh, my gosh, absolutely.

I mean, Travolta. He was in, wasn't it, was it Saturday Night Fever? Was that it? I can't, I remember his hit single. Disco Tex. Monty Rock was on, well, he was like practically a regular on Merv Griffin. Yeah, he lived on Griffin and did Carson appearances, I mean, all the time.

I think he did. He told me he did X amount of Carson appearances, and I kind of was like, are you sure? He's like, well, those are reruns as well. So it was cut down in half but yeah he did a lot dozens and dozens of appearances and you got Pete Barbeauty I

mean you went in for the deep dives you didn't find the potato chip lady you know what she does not alive anymore but I just found out that no excuse you know

what I found out yesterday the polka lady in the anniversary clips the polka lady what's her name she's still alive so I'm going to try to get to her. Fascinating. No, she had the accordion.

I always felt like, I mean, to me, Orie Geller, he just struck me as a showman, like David Copperfield or anybody. Yeah, it was his act. Yeah, and it was his act. Yeah, and it was his act. And I felt like Carson just like really just went to fuck him over. Johnny Carson, if anybody was claiming that they did something, and Kreskin was telling me this story about how during a commercial break, Orson Welles said, I'm guest hosting on Monday, and I'm going to do a Kreskin. And Johnny said, what did you say? He's like, I'm going to do a Kreskin. And this is did you say? He's like I'm going to do a Kreskin and of course this is what Kreskin

told me and I did the research and it is true that Monday when Johnny was off he snuck into the studio and nobody could tell Orson Welles to watch him and he had a stooge in the audience and that's how he did the trick and Johnny at that point he's never doing the show again and he never did the show

Johnny was that pure about Oh yeah, he was like that with Magic because he was Carsonian. Talk to James Randi. I mean anybody that would claim in retirement he'd watch Larry King

with Sylvia Brown and he psyched because he was fascinated because he didn't believe any of them. I mean he was just a curious, curious guy and like he'd put James Randi

on as the first guest. I mean the A-lister would go um after him and he just anytime there was something he didn't think was authentic he would politely challenge it i would say with what he was with geller he was he was definitely polite like carson was always polite on his best manners he would actually ban people from the show people that are surprising if they were not polite i mean that was the most one of the most important things but yeah the geller appearance is hard like who who got banned okay so a bunch of people got banned i'm only going to mention a few people rex reed did the show dozens and dozens of times still around yeah i see him on the upper west side um so what

happened with him is doris day was on and i i watched the clip i studied these by the way the last appearances when they are not allowed back. And he takes like a minute and is just conversing with Doris Day and not acknowledging Carson. And then the camera shows Johnny and he's like staring into the camera, like what's going on.

And a lot of times Johnny looks like he's joking and he's not upset, but I studied this stuff and I can tell. And he was so upset that Rex Ray never did the show again. Wow. Bizarre. I remember hearing a story. It's like Charlie Callis used to be like on just about every other Carson show.

He did the show a lot. A lot. And then one day the producer was talking with Carson and saying, okay, we're lining up for next week. I guess we can have Charlie Callis back. And Carson just goes, no, we've had him enough. That was very similar to Rich Little, who did the show 80 sometimes, guest hosted and went on the show.

And it was Rich Little that one day they were just like, he's done. Our mutual friend, Peter LaSalle, told me that it was just so repetitious. He would always do the same. And I like Rich Little. He's been so nice to me. He's been here. Basically, they said that he would do the same impressions every time he was on. It was basically the same thing.

And I said to Peter, but the audience loved it. He said, yes, they loved it, but we felt it was repetitious. And if you will notice, shortly after Rich Little was not being booked, Johnny started doing Reagan because that was Rich Little's thing. And if you look at the timing, because I said,

I was talking to Peter, I was talking to Rich Little. I said, studying this to me, it looks like the timing is this, that they got rid of you and then just right away, Johnny did the Reagan thing.

He did that Who's On First bit where he was Reagan. I take back the thing I said before about he just wants to play. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck you. No, that's cold. Yeah. That ain't.

Yeah. The other person on that show. That is. Yeah. Whose job was it? Obviously, Johnny didn't do the throat cutting. Whose job was it to get on the phone? Or did they just ghost them?

Did talent coordinators. There's like Peter Lasalle, who, again, we're friendly with, would tell me it was so hard for him sometimes to go out to restaurants. Because you had all these, like, Jack Carter, all these people, like, you know, like, why am I not getting booked? All the older comics and stuff. Wow. Yeah, it was definitely hard. There's never a reason? Like, they never know the reason?

There's not a reason. They went down know the reason? There's not a reason. They went down to 60 minutes and then Buck Henry stopped. But I will tell you this, I couldn't believe this, but it's true and I did the research as well. He loved Carl Sagan.

He was one of the guests where Johnny would take Carl Sagan out to dinner. They would be on the phone in the dressing room. Johnny was into astronomy and just really curious. And he stopped doing the show in 1986. And I always wondered why Carl Sagan decided to stop doing the show. And it wasn't. I looked at the appearance because somebody tipped me off. It was an NBC publicist.

And he corrects in the middle of the interview. And Johnny's all about being polite and manners. Johnny says something and Carl Sagan interrupts him and corrects him on something. And you just see Johnny make kind of like make a small joke at it, but there's something in his eyes. There's something in his eyes. And that was it. That,

I mean, he was never on the show again. I mean, the audience would not be able to tell. Welcome to we hate Johnny. Yeah. I think, you know what?

I think that's what, I think that's why. Listen, man, I think that's why Dave Letterman that's why, I think that's why Dave Letterman would always say everyone was so

nervous over that because you didn't want to be the guy. They'd hear these stories about these guys that would come in and you just never,

never knew and if it's one little thing, you were gone. He was kind of like, I guess, Ed Sullivan used to have that. Well,

he had absolute power and he wielded it. Yeah. But the politeness was one of his top things. Is this true about Freddy DeCordova, that Johnny requested some time at the end of the show to talk about his son? Yeah, that was... You know this story?

Yeah, you can tell it. I told it last time. You know it. What happened is Rick Carson was a photographer and he died. And oh my gosh, I mean, Carson didn't do the show and rightfully so for like a month or so. And somebody I've,

I've heard when he walked in that first day back before the tonight show, he just Johnny and just like people couldn't believe how they were. They questioned whether he could do the show that night. And he, he went out and at the very end, yeah, he knew whether he could do the show that night and he he went out and at the very end yeah he he knew it was built into the show they did a few minutes to set up um talk about his uh son and passing and um thank people that have written him letters and uh really emotional and he wanted to show some of his son's artwork for photography and that that did get on

and what happened is and Bill Zamey's another guy that has studied this too. You can see this one little look, Carson, off camera, is where, when he was setting up the whole, the photography over the, yeah, the photography that Fred DeCordova, I've heard two versions. One, he gives it the

wrap it up sign, or he gets on the phone with Bobby Quinn, or Bobby Quinn. Well Quinn I will say this to Johnny Carson I will say this talking about his son I will say this they did not edit that show

almost ever it was done in real time unless Della Reese got sick in the middle of everyone and collapsed on the floor when she was guest hosting they would stop

but almost never would they stop but something like that I mean once he did that Jeff Sadzik told me it was one of the rare moments he actually saw Johnny upset. I mean, people I talked to with Carson, his assistant I talked to for five years never saw him.

When you say upset, do you mean emotional? Yes. Or do you mean angry? Angry. Yeah. And upset. And just really hurt. And the thing with Carson, and I think you guys know this, I know this because I've done the research,

is once Johnny felt that you had wronged him or that there was something unfair or you weren't loyal to him, the relationship was over. Joan Rivers. It was over. We can talk about the Rivers. The Rivers thing, though, has way more than what the public knows about. I mean, there's a lot more to it. Peter LaSalle, she tried to get Johnny's producer, Peter LaSalle, to come with her to Fox.

She tried to steal Johnny's producer Peter LaSalle to come with her to Fox she tried to steal Johnny's producer and also after she did her press conference she started saying all these things about how my ratings were higher than Johnny's and all these things Barry Diller told me he told me that he told Joan you have to tell

Johnny you have to because she always said Fox wouldn't let her and for whatever reason Johnny and it's like, okay, Johnny's cue card guy. He has a company and he also did the cue cards for Joan Rivers show. And he went to Johnny and it was like lost in translation. He said, Johnny, I have this opportunity to do cue cards for Joan Rivers, her late night show on Fox. And Johnny said, oh, you want to do Joan's show? Go right ahead. And was like, really upset. He's like, no, Johnny, you don't understand. It's my company. I'm loyal to you. I'm going to stay here. But my company, other people would have an opportunity

to do Joan's show. He's like, oh, they have to. Oh, that's great. No, they should do it. And it was all about how they went about it. And they sat him down. I have this opportunity to do something and he was all about that. But again, if he perceived any disloyalty, you were done. I mean, I've talked to these people before and it was yeah, you weren't coming back. We will return to Gilbert

Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. Baseball is finally back. Get in on Major League action and swing podcast after this. Shop for all things baseball. BetMGM.com for Ts and Cs. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call Conax Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. That's the sound of fried chicken with a spicy history.

Thornton Prince was a ladies' man. To get revenge, his girlfriend hid spices in his fried chicken. He loved it so much, he opened Prince's Hot Chicken. Hot chicken in the window. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. So, Phil, we established that as a kid you would lie in bed.

Yeah. Make sure your parents didn't know. You'd turn down the brightness on the TV. You'd have the little TV in bed. I could barely see it. Right. Under the covers. Just sneak the car for a show.

A five-inch black and white TV under the covers with me. Every night. Some boys had Playboy magazine. I had this. See, now, I used to do that with the TV for old monster movies. There you go. You'd sneak a little TV into the bed with you and turn down the- Well, I mean, we had the one TV.

Did you like being scared or they weren't scary? They were just fun? They were fun. Yeah. And it's like there was the one TV we had that was in the living room, and I would turn it on. I was practically pressing my nose against the screen to hear it. Because you don't want them to hear.

Yeah. And I would watch. Oh, one time I remember I was watching The Invisible Man with Claude Rains. And you're going, I can't see it. man with Claude Rains and you're going, I can't

see it. And at first, my mother came out in the middle of the night

and she was telling me to go to sleep and I didn't want to. I wanted

to watch The Invisible Man. And I remember she made me a plate of crackers

and butter and a glass of milk. Wow. You eventually got caught by your parents sneaking cars and a glass of milk. Wow. High-leavened choice. Yeah. Wow. You eventually got caught by your parents sneaking Carson shows. I did.

Yeah. They beat me severely. Now, why don't you tell us those stories? One beating was so bad. Who were the must guests? I mean, did you just watch every night regardless? Or was it like Rickles or Steve Martin? I think there was a gold tier and the king was Rickles. And then Burt Reynolds.

Rodney. Rodney, Buddy Hackett. You know, the ones you knew it was going to turn into a party. You did what I did, which was go through the TV list and you're like, who's going to be on? That's right. But Burt Reynolds, you were never disappointed. I remember. Never, ever.

Yeah, that's true. With Rodney, it was like he was doing a TV special every time. I heard, correct me if I'm wrong, that he was really annoyed when Bob Hope dropped by. Yeah. Oh, that's right. I don't think he had a lot of love for Hope. He was definitely still still it's Bob Hope but you know Carson could have easily said

we're not booking him anymore but he said it's Bob Hope we have to do it it was also the company it was NBC he was there I'm taping across the hall and he was there to promote the special that was going to be on the next night he's also a stockholder

by the last appearance though I mean he was having trouble hearing the special that was going to be on the next night. He's also a stockholder. By the last appearance, though, I mean, he was having trouble hearing Johnny, and it was just hard with the communication. And there's a bunch of reasons why Carson retired, and one of them is because he didn't want to be, you know, he thought Jack Benny, and especially Bob Hope, stuck around too long. But there's the other reasons. When it went to 12.35, 11.35, rather he was furious, and he felt that slighted.

Those five minutes. Those five minutes. And then the other, another key thing was Robert Smigel's Saturday Night Live sketches where they show Johnny as out of touch. Oh, the car song? Yeah, I mean, the car song. We were just doing it. He actually liked that.

Oh, yes. With Phil Hartman going, yes, car song. You know it, right? Dana Carvey? Yeah, he actually liked the Carcinio one. He liked the Carcinio one, but there was one in particular, because of music rights,

it's not online, but I remember watching it. Who was doing Carson? Dana Carvey. Dana Carvey. And Phil Hartman. So the moment he saw that he was being made fun of

by the younger generation, he was like, I'm out of here. Yeah, Leno was telling Carvey that, yeah, he was walking through the hall once, and Johnny was like, if they're going to make fun of me,

I'm going to leave. And the sketches, and I like Robert Smigel, and I think he's probably the greatest sketch writer ever. He's brilliant. But, you know, it was one of those things where Lorne Michaels would get calls, he basically gave his writers free reign, and

Rick Ludwin would try to talk him out of it but uh if be diplomatic but um rick ludwin would have to go down to the basement and tell johnny you know that they might be doing a sketch they're gonna at least do a dress with one of your sketches and he said you know i don't find them funny but go ahead you know we make fun of people but i don't find them funny wow but the carcin Carcinio one was fine, but the other one was Arsenio Hall, Chris Rock is already Arsenio Hall saying,

there was something, oh, Johnny's looking at the card and he says, it says here that your ratings are higher than us and you're very well close to taking over our show. And it was that thing right there wasn't true, and that's what infuriated Carson. Wasn't he sore at SNL from the get go

because the best of Carson got bumped from Saturday nights and he was he was probably making money on those Carson didn't want to give up remember the reruns

on Saturdays before SNL yeah Carson's whole thing was so wrong Carson thought that the show there was actually

too much it was too much so the only reason SNL was there is because of carson and dick ebersole and lauren michaels had to fly 27 year old dick ebersole 29 lauren they get in carson's uh uh office and and carson just wanted to make sure that the host wasn't going to be doing a political monologue that they were gonna like gonna have the same type of music and once carson found out

that they were not going to do like they were going to have rock and roll and stuff which is Carson and Fred DeCordova did not their thing that Johnny gave the blessing and then once New York Magazine came out with Chevy Chase and it's not Chevy's fault where it said this is going to be our success we're talking about him being Johnny's successor

Johnny did not like that he said he watched nobody wants to be replaced. Yeah, I mean, the press, you know, he would read the press. He would read Tom Shale's reviews. He would read the books that were not nice to him. And I don't understand why somebody would do that. But yeah, he's an interesting guy.

He's definitely not what Joan Rivers or Bushkin. He's definitely a complicated man on different levels. Just from talking to hundreds of people that knew him. He was in retirement. Everyone thought he was J.D. Salinger. He was out with you having lunch. He was with the writers having lunch. He was with Dave Thomas having lunch.

He kept in touch with a bunch of staff members from New York. He would get together and email with them. But you had the lunch with him. He was completely gracious and great. And I couldn't believe that I was getting to meet him. I walk into the office and it's wall-to-wall magazine covers. One magazine.

Him on the cover. TV guide. Wall-to-wall. Floor-to-ceiling. His power. TV guide. Wall to wall. Floor to ceiling. His power. TV guide. Unbelievable. I asked his assistant, who was his favorite guest?

You know the answer? I do, and I talked to her, and it was actually, I think, Jeff Satzig's assistant. Because she said that never happened. So I don't know if it was Johnny's assistant. Who was his favorite guest? I couldn't believe it at the time. Yeah. Randy Travis Travis How bizarre

I asked her about that she said no it must have been there were a couple of assistants There were so many guests that got him excited like Steve Martin Well of course

I would have thought like Pete Fountain Buddy Rich He loved that music he thought it was great he loved having I don't I said come on to her

she said my hand to God Maybe she den having... I don't... I couldn't... I said, come on, to her. She said, my hand to God. That is his hand. Yeah, maybe she denies it. I don't know. But, yeah, you wouldn't think with Randy Travis. But, yeah, he was... I know he loves Steve Martin. He did.

And they were still keeping up the poker game up until Johnny Gatsby. Well, he buried that with Chevy. Chevy was in that poker game. Oh, yeah, they were totally fine. I mean, they actually spent time together. They were fine. It was just...

As you noticed, nobody in the original cast of SNL went on when they were on SNL other than, I think, Chevy, but he wouldn't have Gil Radner. He did not like the show. They made fun of him in the 70s, and that's why. And then Dana Carvey got banned from the show because of the Smigel

sketches that he participated in that he didn't write. And yeah, no one from SNL was allowed, except I think Dennis Miller was allowed one time after that, but everyone else from SNL was not welcomed. But you know what? You can't be the old guy who just doesn't like the noise the kids are making.

Yeah. It's an every business. It's inevitable. By the way, there's things that certain younger people do in comedy that isn't my thing also. Right, of course. But that's how God made it. Yeah.

And we're supposed to, you know, be replaced. He had a thin skin. He's a chaplain at the same problem. Of course. It always got me when you'd see, like, Bob Hope and Lucille Ball on a special, and they'd be doing a sketch where they dressed up as hippies. Right. Making fun of the kids.

In beetle wigs. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. They're so out of it. One of your listeners told me to watch the Bob Hope special, the one from 1976. Was it called Joy? Joy's.

We're going to send it to Phil. And I watched it. You have to see that. It's scary. I watched it. It's scary. It's a whodunit where he basically just got everybody, I mean, Jamie Farr and Jerry Colonna, everybody who was alive and threw them into this thing.

And there's a murder that happens at Bob Hope's mansion. And they have to find the killer. Can't laugh. And it starts off with the funniest joke is the title. It starts off with the funniest joke is the title because at the time, the biggest movie in the country was Jaws. It's Jaws. So this is comedians. It's Jaws. J-O-Y-S.

That's horrible. Yeah. And of course, to give it the little Jaws water motif, the dead body is found in a swimming pool. Whose show was this? It's a Bob Hope special. It is so clumsy. It's god-awful. You must see it.

It's the clumsiest thing. And you've seen Jack Frost. You've seen where he's propped up. He's doing the Christmas special. I'm telling you, when you get out of here, I'm telling you, when you go look up Bob Hope Jack Frost, he's singing. He's dressed up as Jack Frost with a little pointed beard and an elf. Yeah, and an elf outfit. How old is he?

He's got to be 86. And Dolores is doing the heavy lifting. She's singing. You've seen this? No. Oh, you've got to see it. It's on YouTube. You have to.

Okay. And it's like, it looks like Dolores' revenge for all the times that Bob Hope fucked around on her. Oh, my God. Because Bob Hope looks like a corpse. Yes. You'd swear they dug him out of the ground and nailed him against the floor. But he had three shows left in the deal. Right, three shows left in the deal.

Listen, Bob Hope was going to his airport, the airport, just for people to recognize him. And he just needed it. He needed the public. He just needed people in retirement. And it's in the song. It's going to be me.

It's going to be me. No. It won't happen. It won't happen. It happens to everybody. It won't happen. She's singing. Yeah. Doing all the singing. And every now and then there'd be a cut.

He's so nice. Yeah. And Hope would go, that's right. Oh, no. They're jump cutting him around the side because he can't move. Wow. So he's magical. So he has to go from spot to spot.

But they're just doing it optically. They're just doing it with jump cuts. I think that's how they edit the voice, by the way. So you told Johnny, you tried to get him interested in doing a big highfalutin roast for charity? I thought this was a great idea. Johnny's been off the air for eight years, and what if there was an HBO, maybe even live, roast of Johnny? Think of the comedians who

wouldn't do it. You can't. Everyone would do it. And you could raise a billion dollars for charity. It would be the greatest charitable event in history and probably the highest rated anything in television history. He goes, I'm not coming back. He goes, you got to know when to get the fuck off the stage. That's what he said to you. He would get offers.

He would get offers and he would listen to them. And he almost did his club act. David Steinberg was doing a small act. It was not advertised, and Carson was really considering in 94 doing one. But he just got cold feet, and he's like, no, I'm done. Who was it that was? But he would come on Letterman once or twice still. Once he didn't speak.

Right? He had a line, but the audience was so, the applause, he didn't get his line out. But no, you're right. He would call in sometimes and do bits. Call in and also write for Dave. Yeah, Dave was using his jokes. He was using his monologue jokes. He loved just writing and sending them in.

And once in a while, Dave would do them. And when Johnny passed away, Dave did a monologue. And at the end of the monologue, he goes, I want you to know that every joke I just told was Johnny's. That's great I remember that. Yeah. I remember when Jack Benny died and Johnny got very emotional

in 74. Yeah they said around the office he was emotional and around the office they said it was just a horrible day. I remember. Because he was if I'm wrong he was the sweetest greatest be expected. Love Benny. If I'm wrong, he was the sweetest, greatest guy. Everybody loved Benny. That's what I heard, yeah.

That's one celebrity we've never heard anything bad about. No bad story. What about George Burns? Not really. I've never heard anything bad about him. A little bit of philandering, I think, but that's the worst of it. How did you guys part company? I remember hearing a story that when Gracie died, Burns was at the funeral and the reading of the will and everything,

and Burns went to Hillcrest afterwards, and Georgie Jessel's there, and he says, you know, Gracie didn't leave me anything in the will. And Jessel says, well, that's because you fucked everybody in town and Gracie North. Oh. Wow. That's the only thing we heard about.

Yeah, I did not know that. Yeah. But he wasn't in Hope's class. I did not know that. He wasn't in Hope's class. Alleged. As far as an adulterer. I did not know that. He wasn't in Hope's class. Alleged. As far as an adulterer. I've never heard that.

I don't think it's true. So you brought Ray to the lunch? Ray was at the lunch? And when you guys said goodbye to Johnny, obviously you're sky high in some way. You're meeting a hero. He grabbed my dick. Did he?

Well, I noticed Shecky was very kind to you too on the show. He was not so kind to us when we had Shecky. He, I was doing a thing at the Friars Club. And I remember because Joy Behar was there. She was just in the audience. And I went on. And I did very well. And I was getting laughs and then

after me was supposed to be Shecky Green and instead Joy Behar they introduced and I thought that's weird how come they bumped him and it turns out that I didn't see all this they were telling me that

he flew into a rage at my act saying I was in the Navy. I never heard language like that. Awesome. And they said – That's, again, the old person resenting, not appreciating or liking the young. Must be. This made huge news.

I read about it in the newspaper. I mean, it was a huge deal. He took a swing at Freddie Roman. Yes. Yeah, it was a huge deal. I remember. On his way out the door, reading about Hickey. It was great, because it was

like that Broadway Danny Rose type thing, because I remember, you know, Freddie Roman was there, all upset, and oh, what's his name? By the way, at the Friars Club, they never heard this language? At the Friars. What the hell?

Mickey Freeman? No, no. Yeah, I'm surprised I thought that. No. Stewie Stone. Stewie Stone. By the way, it's the dirtiest place on earth. They never heard this language? Stewie Stone said to me,

Oh, that Jackie, he's a fucking idiot. But he was very nice. Mark charmed him. He gave me dinner. I sat down with him and his wife. Unexpected. I said, do you want to sit down? And they fed me.

And we were in his living room, and he was all out performing. I mean, he was really nice to me, but he told me he hates your guts. Yeah. Oh. He did not. No. The Buddy Hackett story. He doesn't hate you.

People should go to listen to your episode with Shecky Green just to hear about Buddy Hackett jumping on his back and pulling a gun on him. Shecky Green was incredible. Freddie said that Buddy pulled a gun on him in the elevator. There you go. Who did? I heard you doing one of my jokes and he pulled out a gun. Yeah. Pack and heat, Buddy.

Shecky's okay with you. He really is. Well, you know, Sheck, I think what I thought and what most people confirmed is I think what he really was going through, he has like a crippling stage fright. Yeah. You talked about that. So he used you as an excuse to get the hell out of there? Yeah, yeah. I think he got scared. We got to wrap.

Well, wait. He's got to plug his throat. I want to mention on SiriusXM, they're going to be doing a Johnny Carson channel starting October 1st for the month of October. And they're going to be using some of my audio clips from the Carson podcast. And then on some of the comedy channels throughout October, I'm going to be hosting a special, Johnny, with some clips. Wonderful. We'll plug it on Facebook, too. And the new podcast is great, Persistence 360.

I've been listening to it. We talked about it outside. Sum it up. What's the elevator pitch? Oh yeah. I just talked to people that went through brick walls, like Phil Rosenthal. It was just one roadblock after another and they kept going and,

uh, all to get on this podcast. No shit. Yeah. So I talked to a bunch of like, we were talking about like Don, Don Roy King, who directs Saturday Night Live, who just won an Emmy again. We have Michael Emerson, some show, we have a bunch of...

Very inspiring. Yeah. Yeah, Don Roy King found his dream job in his 50s. Yeah, so we talked to a lot of people in different fields of entertainment. We definitely get the entertainment and, yeah, persistence. I'm very impressed by your passion, my friend. Oh, thanks. And the way that you reach out.

Very few people as great as Mark Malcolm. He's just great. He loves what he does, and it comes in a nice cross. He's a sweet, nice boy. He is. We should all be nice boys like Mark Malcolm. Well, I can't. Get going.

Come on. I can't top that. Gilbert is just looking. Instead of filthy animals like Gilbert. Gilbert's laughing at me. Feral dogs. You want to sign off, Gilbert? I'm Gilbert Gottfried.

This is Sp- and I'm here with... A Jew, yes! Yes! I never liked those people. We're here with anti-Semitic Jackie Gleason. Yes! We're here with anti-Semitic Jackie Gleason. If I owned a hotel, I wouldn't let them stay there.

No, that smells like a Jew. Who's been here? Okay. I can't even talk. Okay, this has been Gilbert and Frank's amazing colossal obsessions. Yes. And we've had Phil Rosenthal. I've heard of him. Watch me get the name wrong again.

Mark Malkoff? Lovely. Gilbert, you did it. Oh, my God. I have to say, you won't remember me tomorrow on the street when we see you. Who is here? Mark Milkshake? Yeah.

Or Phil or me. Thank you, boys. Now, as you know, the San Diego Zoo is one of the finest zoos in the world. And we've had this young lady on the show very often the past, I guess, seven or eight years. She's been appearing with us. About nine years. Hmm? About nine years. Right, yeah.

Several plus several would be about nine. You said seven or eight. No, I didn't say seven or eight. I said several. Then you said seven or eight. And I said it's nine. Nine about nine. You said seven or eight. No, I didn't say seven or eight. I said several. Then you said seven or eight, and I said it's nine. Nine, nine, good, thank you. Some of the animals...

Some of the animals you had as babies are now ten years old. That would be about right. Remember the animals that did something funny on your tie? Yes Those little lions, the little baby lions were one year old That's right They are now treacherous and ferocious ten-year-old animals

Okay Anyway, Joan Embry is here tonight And she's now 32 That's right. Joan is an animal handler and a trainer. And you really think you're fooling everybody, don't you? No, no, no, no. I'm just here to do my best to help you. I know that.

And she does her three horse shows a day. Did you know that? At the animal park. Boy. What? What the animal park. Boy. What? What an exciting idea. Would you like an army cot or something? Maybe just a

kind of catch up on a little nappy poo? Just might snap you right out of it. I love Joan. I'm the only one who went down to see Joan. Doc has never seen her. You've never seen her. I went to the wild animal farm. It's all right. It's okay. But you're upsetting me. No, no.

I don't want to upset you. I went down. Jonah and I I know you did. That's all right. Don't say No. What? I know her. I went down there. I know you did. I know you went down there. I held a baby gorilla. I couldn't go with went down there. I held a baby gorilla.

I couldn't go with you that week. You held a baby gorilla. Good, all right. And let's get her out here quickly. With you, welcome, Joanie. Give her that frat colossal obsessions Give me that fract, colossal obsessions Give me that fract, colossal obsessions