Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Mini #240: Universal Horror Films with Author-Historian Gary Gerani. Part 2

Episode Date: October 31, 2019

This week: The monster takes a mate! Bela Lugosi's finest hour! The strange life of Edgar G. Ulmer! And the absurd brilliance of "The Black Cat"! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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One, two, three, four. Gilbert and Frank's Colossal Obsessions. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopatre. And this is Gilbert and Frank's amazing Colossal Obsessions with our special guest Gary Gerani. Hello there. Hey, I'm going to stop you guys. Why don't we do, hey Frank,

why don't we have Gilbert do like a fun horror movie intro for this one? Why don't you do like a Karloff voice or Maria Ouspenskaya to introduce the episode because this is our Halloween show.

Do the same thing. Okay. Okay, here we go. Even a man who is pure at heart and says his prayers by night may become a wolf when the wolfbane

blooms and the autumn moon is bright. This is part two of Gilbert and Frank's amazing colossal obsession. Lovely. Wow. That was exactly what I had in mind.

Fantastic. Nice job. Nice job, Maria. We're doing part two here with Gary Gerani. Maria Ospenskaya, when she did The Wolfman, probably thought of it as like doing porn. It's like this is like... This grand lady of the stage.

Yeah, she was there with the Stanislavski. Well, you've got to look at it this way. There she was with her old buddy, Claude Rains, and they did a couple other movies together, including what's the movie where Ronald Reagan loses his legs? Oh, King's Row? Yeah, yeah, they're both in that. So, you know, you could make horror movies

and still do your important films if you were good enough, and they were brilliant. And she was in that movie where Edward G. Robinson, I think he discovers, he's the one who finds the- Dr. Ehrlich's magic book. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, yeah, and you'll see her. The Rains came. She's the old lady there. Yeah, the career. The Rains came. She's the old lady there. Yeah, she had a career.

The Rains of Rancho Port. Yeah, I mean, she was very respected. I think she was an acting teacher, too. I think she was a... I think young actors... She took a lot of young actors. By the way, I'm going to reintroduce you. Oh, okay.

Gilbert got lost in his Maria Lucia style. As well he should. Gary, author and pop culture expert and trading card king, Gary Girani, is back with us. And one time I heard from Chico's daughter I had spoken to, and she was taking lessons from Maria Spinskaya. There you go. I'm trying to handle that. He was probably trying to nail her. Even, yeah. And it's like Chico asked her out to dinner.

This is perfect. And it was Chico and Maria Spinskier having dinner. I can't believe what that, why this wasn't filmed. Maxine told you this? Yes. Wow. Yes. The brain cells boggle at that one, I have to say.

Gary. Yes. We talked in the last episode. Oh. Yes. The brain cells boggle at that one, I have to say. Gary. Yes. We talked in the last episode. Oh, Gary. Oh, Gary. We talked in the last episode about Dracula, Frankenstein, the mummy, and the invisible man. And we went all over the place. But we're trying to do these in chronological order.

No problem. Everybody who listens to this show knows that Gilbert loves Universal Monster Talk. Lon Chaney Jr. especially. So we'll get to him. Yeah. But since we're going in order and we left off with The Invisible Man in 33, let's talk once again about a movie we love to talk about on this show. And that is the very weird and very kinky Black Cat. Yeah.

Which may be the strangest movie to ever come out of Hollywood. Arguably. The more you watch it, the less you understand it. That's a great description of it. It makes less and less sense every time. And it's more and more satisfying. Yes. That's what's so weird.

Just wonderful. Usually when a movie, when something doesn't make sense, I get annoyed. With The Black cat, nothing makes sense, and it just makes it better. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. That's interesting because that's a universal horror movie that really doesn't

have a monster in it. And yet, it's just as well-loved and well-appreciated as the other classics because it is so well done. Karloff has an incredible part in that. You put it in the book. Yeah. Oh, it's a great movie.

I love the fact that his castle is this high-tech, brilliantly designed place. It's Art Deco. And then there's a digital clock in the movie. He's obsessed with a digital clock in the movie. He's obsessed with the digital clock.

I know. Because every other film back then was like in a castle or something. And now you see this really fancy house. You know what that reminds me of? Frank Capra's Lost Horizon. When they get to Shangri-La. It's not an old looking thing it's a modern looking thing

that's a beautiful looking movie yeah it's a shame that like they lost a half a reel or what happened on that movie is they've lost

the original negative so through all the decades now they've been trying to restore it it keeps looking better over the years when you see it now in theaters

in revivals you see it with stills or even the sections that were cut. It's a beautiful movie. It really is. Okay, Black Cat, the first of the Karloff-Legosi team-ups. I mean, Universal, I don't know this, but they must have been falling all over themselves to try to put the two of these guys in a movie together.

Obviously, they were the two big stars. Very loosely, if at all, based on the Poe story. Oh, yeah. As if no real connection to it. And when they do hit upon it, a black cat shows up. He gets scared, and it's never touched on again.

They have to justify the title. He throws the scissors. That. With Hatch. Well, Legosi throws the scissors at the officer. That's a great moment, too. Black Cat. You list it in the book. You describe it in the book as a loopy, tongue-in-cheek tale of revenge, perverted love, and devil worship. Yeah, that sums it up.

There's necrophilia. Yeah, human sacrifice. Right, it's Legosi's daughter. Incest. Yeah. Ay-yi-yi-yi-yi, right? Right. Well, it's pre-code. Right. It's Lugosi's daughter. Yeah. Aye, aye, aye, aye, aye. Right? Right.

Well, it's pre-code. Exactly. So they were able to get away with this stuff. We'll play a little game. A game of death, if you'd like. I got a good one for you. Very good. And he accentuates that lisp.

In, you know, they're playing that game, that little chess game, right? And then finally, checkmate, right? That key moment. But the studio didn't realize this. They thought for a second, a lot of people may not know that checkmate means he wins. So a voice is dubbed in saying, you lose, Vetus. Isn't it Ulmer's voice? It's just a voice.

I don't know whose voice. I think it's Ulmer. I think it's the director. I think it's Andrew Ulmer's voice? It's just a voice. I don't know whose voice. I think it's Ulmer. I think it's the director. I think it's Andrew Ulmer. Just try it. That's what I read. Even as a kid, I said, that's not Karloff's voice. But they were so concerned, people didn't realize.

I checked and they meant you lost. So they had to throw that line in. Yeah. Tell listeners briefly the plot, if you can sum it up. There's no way. Yeah, no one should even. up. There's no way. And I heard it was based on a true story. I mean, very loosely.

I think the cultist is the cultist character based on Alistair Crowley, the famous cultist and paganist. That's a good point. I believe it is. And there were these prisons, these army prisons, that that was based on.

So there was that, it did have that element of reality that was underneath all the insanity that was going on there. So a little suggestion of a subtext there. But, and again, it's David Matters again, right? David Matters again. There is a scene.

He's everywhere. Where they're on the train car, and David Manners is listening to Lugosi, and I go, this acting is ahead of time, you know? I know what you're saying. Yeah. Because his wife is asleep, and Lugosi sees his sleeping wife, and he almost wants to touch this young lady in a very nice way. Yeah. And he's looking at him, and he starts to explain how he lost his own wife and all that. And Manners is just there.

He's just listening. He's just listening. But it is, as you say, ahead of its time because he's not over-emoting. No. He's just there shaking his head. It's a powerful moment. That surprised me when I saw that because it's just, he's just listening. It's a powerful moment, too.

Yes, very. And that's because you had Ulmer. He was a very interesting director. Very, very strange guy would get those moments from the actors. Yeah, a very strange guy from the research. And he's made some of my favorite movies, too. Well, Detour's a great movie. Man from Planet X.

A very strange guy from what I've read. I came back not to kill you, to kill your soul. Look fast for John Carradine in The Black Cat. John Carradine? Plays an organist. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Very quickly. Oh, my God oh, oh. Very quickly. Oh, my God.

Ulmer brought the German expressionism that you're talking about with the design. I read some very, very strange things about him. If IMDB, you know about this, that he had an affair with the wife of an executive at Universal? That I didn't know.

And he was blacklisted. Ulmer began an affair with Shirley Castle, who would eventually become his wife. However, at the time, Castle was married to Max Alexander, a Universal producer and the nephew of the powerful head of Universal, Carl Emly. Don't crap where you eat. Who did not look kindly on outsiders upsetting his family. She left her husband for Ulmer, and the ensuing scandal resulted in him being blackballed by all of the major studios. That just goes to show you, you've got to be careful. How about that?

Now, how about this one? This is from IMDb, too. Henry Cording, who plays the brutish kind of strange, very disturbing element is this weird manservant. weird manservant saved the life of actress Lucia Lund when he pulled her off the slab table

after he found her bleeding from the mouth. According to Lund, Edgar Ulmer was a sadist who retaliated against her when she turned him down

when he asked her to be his girlfriend. He left her hanging in a glass case equipped with wires while they all went to lunch. It is estimated she had been left there

for an hour. I bring this up because it adds an element of freakishness to this. Yeah, a little bit of real life horror intruding on the movie. If this is true. Either that or it could just be some juicy publicity. Who knows?

I remember the most bullshit publicity to come out of the old movies is, I forget the name of it, it was a real shitty low budget with Karloff and Lugosi. And Lugosi, they advertised, had been hypnotized by this. Oh, is that Black Friday?

Yes. And that looked like such bullshit. I like that one. That has got to be bullshit. It's like looking at the old press books where there's all this stuff. You know it's all made up crap. Because, you know,

it's supposed to be that he hypnotized them to be in a panic. Well, if he was in a panic and he was more comfortable with Hungarian, why is he screaming out in English? If in a panic, he'd be screaming out in Hungarian. He wouldn't be able to. They even put that scene in the trailer, by the way. I like the raven, too, by the way.

The follow-up. The raven is even loopier. It's loopier. It's like the black Cat without the artfulness, but it's got its own... It won't cause you sleepless weeks, though, like the Black Cat. And they took Karloff's growl

out of Frankenstein and they put it in the Raven for no reason at all. So we'll move on, but we will tell our listeners once again, and we've said it a hundred times, watch The Black Cat. Yes, we love The Black Cat. And then email us.

Moving on to 1935, I think you know which one I'm going for here. Quite an important one, I would say. Quite an important one, and actually the highest ranking movie in your book. Oh, yes. It came in at number five. Of all the universal horror classics, that is The Citizen Kane. It really is.

And that's Bride of Frankenstein. The rare sequel that surpasses the original film. And the original was damn good. Yeah, the original was damn good. But Bride of Frankenstein took things to a whole new level. You could have a contemporary young audience watch that movie, watch the climax where they're

bringing the bride to life. The style of editing, it's like Star Wars. You know, it's so exciting, so creative, so fast. Well, my theory about this is that Whale was given free reign. He was given a lot of creative license. And he took it. Yeah.

And it all worked. It's a little bit like the inmates running the asylum in 70s American cinema. Right. I mean, it is crazy the chances that he took with this thing. And then it got that whole crazy middle section with the miniature people. Yeah. Oh, yeah. In the jaws, right?

Oh, my God. Do you know this? Among the little babies in the bottles. That scumbag, he took work from me. Dr. Pretorius, who was

a great creation, just like Dr. Frankenstein, had experimented with creating life. Instead of creating a human-sized artificial man, he created these

little people that he put in jars. And that was like Ernest Thesinger. Yes. And I heard, you know, him likes everybody in George, well, James Wales' pictures was gay. Yes. With the exception of Carl. He was the one straight guy.

He was married to a lady. But Ernest Thessinger used to, on his time off, he would knit. And he used to refer to himself as that knitting bitch. Where did you come up with this?

I've read that somewhere. That knitting bitch. Ernest Thessinger is another great actor. The Dr. Smith of his day, when you think about it. The same kind of guy, right? And then there's that part where Karloff shows up and he goes, friend. And he goes, well, I should certainly hope so. I hope so.

Have a cigar. He was the Dr. Smith. He was the Jonathan Harris of his day. Yes, wasn't he? You nailed that. And Jonathan Harris was a He was the Dr. Smith. He was the Jonathan Harris of his day. Yes, wasn't he? You nailed that. And Jonathan Harris was a Jew from the Bronx. There you go. He invented that whole character.

And that character saved the show because they did the original pilot without Dr. Smith. Absolutely. And it was rejected. They said, you've got to have some conflict in here. So they brought him in. So Whale wanted no part of a sequel to Frankenstein, from what I understand. Yeah, I mean, you could understand why they were afraid, because that kind of thing could go off the rails very, very easily.

Instead, they wound up with certainly one of the greatest horror movies of all. Some people would say it's the best. It's certainly in the top five. I'm reading that Uncle Carl was on vacation in Europe, and he basically wasn't watching what whale was doing and they and whale basically had creative freedom what what's amazing that they got away with got away with the was the sacrilegious that things so many there's statues of Christ comparing the monster to Christ well absolutely because the monster was an

outsider being persecuted now I don't know if you know but originally Karloff didn't want the monster to speak he was really against that and that was Whale's idea it's kind of like Albert Hitchcock not wanting

music in the shower sequence of Psycho. He eventually realized, no, that really did make it into something. And the monster talking brought a whole new level to the character. And Karloff finally said, yeah, yeah, that really did make a difference. And then in Son of Frankenstein, he already forgot how to talk. Right, he's mute again. Yeah, yeah. That never made any sense to me.

And that's kind of what the prototype of what the monster was going to be when Glenn Strange eventually took it. Just kind of a big automaton kind of a thing. Well, Sarah did a DVD commentary, I guess it's on one of the Blu-rays, and she said that time has proven her father wrong.

Oh yeah, I remember her saying that. Yeah, that he made it work when he spoke. I'm sure that Karloff himself, after he gave that performance, probably, like what Hitchcock said, incorrect suggestion, he realized that what he was saying, no, let's not do it, was wrong, and speaking was right for the monster. It's a very kinky movie in ways, it's similar to The Black Cat, because it's really, it's kind of an outlier.

Here's my question to you guys on it. When he, when the monster kidnaps Elizabeth, okay, think of, you know, Madeline Kahn, but no, this is the original Elizabeth, and he brings her to that cave, and he throws her down, whatever, and then he, you see his hand, and he's looking at her,

and he's coming down on her, just like that, like, you see his hand and he's looking at her and he's coming down on her. Just like that, like, you know, and you dissolve away. Did he rape her? That's a good question. And for years,

you know, and if you look at that, it's, and then he goes, and his hand goes down and you dissolve to the next. Take a look at that

the next time. No one can really say for sure, but I think that's implied. Wow. What do you know about rejected storylines that they didn't go with? Some story about a circus, about Frankenstein and his bride running away to a circus. They did that in The Bride. They used that storyline.

I've never seen The Bride. That's exactly right. I've never seen The Bride. They used that storyline. The later version. I've never seen The Bride. That's exactly right. I've never seen The Bride. Interesting. And the girl from Flashdance. Right. Jennifer Beals. Jennifer Beals.

The monster is killed by a lion in the circus. Have you heard this before? And there's one storyline that was rejected of Dr. Frankenstein murdering the monster with a death ray. There were always death rays popping up in these things. In the mummy, I believe, he was going to be using a death ray originally. Also, we're talking about the similarities between the mummy and dragon. Originally, the mummy was going to be in a coffin all day long, just like Dracula. It would be just sarcophagus, but it would pretty much amount to the same thing.

So, you know, there's all these nutty ideas that they played with and sort of... They were ultimately rejected. Getting back to just the brilliance of The Bride of Frankenstein, among other things, there's so many great things in it. The music. Yes. Oh, my God. Franz Waxman, one of his greatest scores, and it wound up

just like... This wasn't Franz Waxman, it was a different composer who did The Invisible Man, but both of those scores wound up being background music for the Flash Gordon serials, which as a kid I saw before these horror movies and all of a sudden, oh my God, I know that music. But it's powerful, powerful stuff. It's a great score. It's a great movie on so many levels. a monster is crying with the old blind man, and the camera goes up to a lit up figure of Christ on the cross. There's a crucifix behind them. And as that scene is faded, it suddenly illuminates.

Yes. And then if the whole scene is faded out, you still see the illuminated cross. Yeah. It sticks with you. And Elsa got the question mark treatment in that one. Yeah, right, right. Because Karloff was already...

Karloff! And plus she played two roles because she was Mary Shelley in addition to playing the bride. That's right, and it's good trivia. She is the only classic universal monster to never take a life. There you go.

Technically right. Technically. She's only on three minutes of screen time. And you talk about saying some ideas they were playing with that they never used. The bride briefly was going to be dealt with in Son of Frankenstein.

When he goes to the old crumbled place, there was going to be the remains of the bride or something. They finally said, you know, let's just skip that. But they were going to do a little continuity with her. Interesting. Yeah. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. Baseball is finally back.

Get in on major league action and swing for the fences with BetMGM, the king of sports books. Log in or sign up to play along as BetMGM brings the real-time action. Embrace a season's worth of swings with BetMGM, your one-stop shop for all things baseball. BetMGM.com for Ts and Cs. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only.

Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Introducing TD Insurance for Business, with customized coverage options for your business. Because at TD Insurance, we understand that your business is unique, so your business insurance should be too. Whether you're a shop owner, a pet groomer, a contractor, or a consultant, you can get customized coverage for your business. Contact a licensed TD Insurance advisor to learn more A little Colin Clive trivia for you, Gilbert, since you asked about him

He died two years later after the making of Bride of Frankenstein Wow Supposedly, again, we have to do a segment on this show called Truth or Bullshit But his ashes sat in the basement of an LA.A. funeral home for 40 years. Oh, my God. Before they were discovered. Wow. How weird is that?

How weird is that? Yeah, I heard he drank. He was old. Yeah. And he had all kinds of diseases and things. I don't even remember anymore. Trouble, man. It wasn't a pretty picture.

But you're giving me my segue, since you've brought up Son of Frankenstein. Let's talk about it. Okay. Yes, it did not make your top hundred, but it's, as you say, bubbling beneath the surface. It's got to be because... It's under the ice. I'm actually annoyed at myself that I somehow didn't squeeze it into the top 100, because it's a very, very good movie in its own way.

You called it more conventional. Oh, well, it is. Yeah. If you can look at Bride of Frankenstein, which is one of the reasons... It's hard to top. We love that movie because of how off, it is. Yeah. If you can look at Bride of Frankenstein, which is one of the reasons. It's hard to top. We love that movie because of how offbeat it is. Sun is a little bit more straight in every way, less flaky, less funny. The best part of that was Lugosi's performance is amazing.

Absolutely. Lugosi's performance is amazing. Absolutely. There are some people who say, incorrectly, Karloff had all these different characters and all Lugosi had was Dracula. No way. Igor is just in his own

way, it's just as good as Dracula because he's doing the exact opposite. Instead of the cultivated, sophisticated, it's this, whatever he is, this kind of slimy kind of... It was both funny and eerie at the same time. And sometimes even touching. Yes.

And I guess it's in Ghost of Frankenstein where he's hoping to literally bond with the monster by going into his body and his brain was going to be in there and all that. So the relationship between Igor and the monster has had some people saying, was there more going on there? In later years, people were talking about that. Oh, well, there was a part in the movie that Karloff and Rathbone would crack up. And that's when Lugosi says of the monster, he does things for me.

He does things for me. He does things for me. And they started cracking up. Very interesting. It's actually a very sinister line because what are those things that he would do for this creepy guy? I hate to think they had a subtext that was inferring something.

In 1939. Right, right. But to me, I always just took it as this guy's a weird, wicked old guy and he's got this monster at his disposal. Which, of course, is what he uses him for, to get even with people. Sure. I like it.

And it's plenty atmospheric, and it's got a lot going for it. But it makes me wonder what Whale would have done had he stayed on. It was a different time. You're talking about the difference between 1935 and 1939. And the movies were growing up. Holly was getting very, very straight and serious with all this stuff. Son of Frankenstein was actually going to be a Technicolor movie. Yes, I was going to ask you about that.

And if you look at that film, look at the way the monster looks. He's not in his usual dull jacket. He's got this furry outfit, which was a brownish red. I heard Karloff hated that. Well, he didn't like things that got away from the iconic look of the monster.

Wasn't he worried generally that the monster was going to be taken in the wrong direction? That he was just going to become a killing machine and lose his... You know, I mean,

it was such a tricky part to begin with, right? And inevitably, it was so easy for it to become a parody of itself. And then he just became a big stuntman walking around, and usually the third act of those movies. Well, once it's Glenn Strange. And Glenn Strange had a good face. But they weren't really doing justice to the monster. They lose the sympathy and the magic of the character and the childlike qualities,

everything that Karloff invested in. Yeah, they were going in a different direction. You know, what can one say? The 40s were different than the 30s. Son of Frankenstein launched the second wave of universal classic horror. And when you see Lugosi in there, you see what a

great stage actor he must have been and people like to say oh how hammy he is but no he's really making that real as weird as that character is and we'll get to this in a second

I'm sure he's equally good in the Wolfman. Yes. As the gypsy. It's a small part. But there he is, showing up and giving another memorable moment that we could talk about. Well, I read that Lee was, they were making the script up as they went along with Son of Frankenstein, and that they kept expanding Lugosi's part.

Apparently, they were upset that Universal was lowballing him on the money, and they were trying to give him more to do. Universal had very little respect for Lugosi. Now, some people say, well, after all, all he can play is Dracula. Number one, that's not true. And also, excuse me, they did a lot of other movies with a Dracula character and didn't use Lugosi, who is Dracula, right? So, Universal, I think, began to think of him as kind of a melodramatic kind of cornball

guy from another era. Once you got into the 40s and the World War II era, John Carradine became their Dracula because he had more cred. He was a little bit more of a traditional solid actor of that type. So, Lugosi had to go crazy to get the part in Abner Costello meet Frankenstein. Just the way he had a campaign to do the role originally in 31. And then when he came back in Abner and Costello,

you go, oh shit, this is what's been missing. That's missing. I like Carradine, but like Len Strange, he's second string. Yes, yes. And the only reason they even let Lugosi do it in A&C Meet Frankenstein, because that was a parody. I know.

So they thought, oh, this hammy, oh, melodramatic. It's a shame the way he was treated. And he almost didn't get that either. He had to go crazy to get it. And he was good in Abbot and Costello. Oh, yeah, right, right. He was perfect. And those lines, and he's talking to Luke Costello,

you know, and they're doing their what the world needs is young brains and blood, or whatever he's saying, you know, and then, you know,

Luke Costello was going, thank you. Two quick bits of trivia before we move off Son of Frankenstein and move to my last one, and yes, you're ahead of me.

Sarah Karloff, who did this show, was born during production. Oh. She was born in November of 1938. And again, this could be bullshit. We'll have to ask Sarah. Apparently, he went to the hospital in the costume. That I have heard many times.

Hope it's true. I heard that story. It sounds like bullshit. It sounds like bullshit. Imagine those poor people in the hospital. And the question that, of course, you both know, it's his last feature. It's Karloff's last feature as the monster. But for what reason did he put the makeup on again? Oh, you mean the classic episode of Route 66?

Yes. Yes. Lizard's Leg and Alice. Yeah, yeah. No messing with you guys. Yeah. Yeah. And they all were in it.

You had. Cheney and Laurie. I knew Gilbert knew it. I knew Laurie jumped in. I mean, you know, Lugosi was gone. Well, this they all were in it. You had. Cheney and Laurie. I knew Gilbert knew it. I knew Laurie jumped in. I mean, you know, Lugosi was gone. Well, this is my tragic childhood story. I would check every day. Route 66.

To see if that one would pop up. I would check every day if that would pop up. And the one day I don't check. Oh. Isn't that always the way it is? Yes. Jesus. By the way, he also put on the makeup for a charity softball game.

Oh, yes. Yes. I do believe. Or baseball. I do believe he put the makeup on again for the Danny Kaye movie, Walter Mitty. Yeah, but it's not. It was a sequence that they filmed and didn't use. Not in the movie.

It's not in the movie, but it would have been Technicolor that you wouldn't have seen that. How about that? And apparently that. Oh, here's the other thing. You had to wait until Munster go home to see them in color. Here's the other thing that drives me crazy. In real life, to have them look gray on screen, they painted them green. And now they always just have Frankenstein as a green monster, and it shouldn't be that way.

Okay. This is the best, as I understand, and this has become an issue among us people who are into this. The true correct color for the Frankenstein monster skin is that grayish color. Yes. And that is what was originally created. That's what you will always see

in this Walter Mitty thing that was in Technodoc. Yeah. It was the gray look again. But when they were doing those color tests and things on Son of Frankenstein, you will see some of this footage.

I believe Karloff was on the set taking home movies. And you will see some of this footage. I believe Karloff was on the set taking home movies, and you'll see that somewhat greenish look to his face, and with the red outfit and all that. I believe they were experimenting a little, since that first movie was going to be made in color, Son of Frankenstein, that first Technicolor movie,

they wanted to play with his skin tone a little, to make it a little more interesting. That's my thought on it. But basically, it should be that grayish look. The reason it went green is the same reason The Incredible Hulk started out as gray in the comics. It didn't print right. It didn't look good.

So they went green. And that jumped out at you. Also, you know, the Universal Monsters for kids of my generation in the 60s and then later in the 70s and whatever, it was the Aurora Monster model kits. Yes. And the cover of that, James Baum's beautiful painting for the box art, the monster's green.

And that's what they told you to paint it. And from that point on, he just was green. Of course. Let's talk about The Wolfman before we get out of here. As you say, now we're up to 41. So we started at 31. It's a 10-year span. And as you pointed out, Universal had struck out with Werewolf of London in 1935,

despite having Warner Olin in it. And it's an interesting story, too, because there are two werewolves in Werewolf of London. Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's offbeat, but didn't quite nail it. Kurt Siadmak, who had a terrific career. He wrote I Walk With a Zombie, wrote Son of Dracula, Black Friday. Very talented guy.

Many other movies. Put together a script in a couple of weeks. It's an original screenplay. Chaney became a star. And I think the original, there are traces of it in the movie, that originally it's supposed to be that you weren't supposed to know whether he actually was a werewolf or not. A very good point. You watch the movie and you listen to the dialogue.

It sounds like that's what they're doing that you shouldn't really know. And meanwhile, we're seeing him. It's a beautiful movie. We're seeing him clear his day and everything. Okay. Sian Mack later made a movie. We're seeing him clear his day and everything. Okay. Siad Mack later made a movie called Bride of the Gorilla. Sure. Which was, yes, that was the work, man.

Which was his vision. And the idea is it's only when you see him in a mirror or in a pool of water from his point of view, because he's imagining that, but that's not what, it's a Val Lewton thing we're talking about. And the funny thing is Lon Chaney is in that but not yes yes but that is what the original idea was and that's why valutin made cat people he said oh this wolfman thing you see too much this is how it really should be and that was when the whole idea that's enjoying that yeah cat people was his answer to the Wolfman. Well, Siadmak escaped from the Nazis. So he saw a lot of himself in this story. Forced into a fate I didn't want, he said.

Yeah. And it's like, you know, even a man who's pure at heart and says his prayers at night. So he was an honest, good guy. But he became this hunted animal. It shows you what anyone can become and that's a great subtext the other thing I want to say about The Wolfman and I didn't even get into this

in the book because there's so many good things you could say about the film but you know what that story's really about? It's a father and son story and it's about what happens if you don't show your child love it turns your child love.

It turns your child into a monster without having that love. You know what I think the movie is too, aside from that analogy of like, you know, like a Jew come in. It's like it was the thing of like it was thrust on him. And it's like, it was the thing of like, it was thrust on him. And it became, I also think it's almost like a biography of Lon Chaney Jr. Take the words right, because I was about to say, in real life, his own father was a cold fish with him. And if you look at that movie, it's almost about Lon Chaney Jr.'s relationship with his real dad. Key moment in the movie, at the end of the picture, when he's got him strapped to the chair at the end. And he says, but dad, aren't you going to stay here with me to help me through this seizure? Oh no, I have to go help the villagers.

That was it. God damn it, stay with your son. He needs you. He wouldn't have changed if he had stayed. Hammer picked that up in Curse of the Werewolf with Oliver Reed, where the girl he loves stays with him, and he hasn't changed. Because the power of love was able to stop that transformation. Okay, Gilbert, no one will appreciate this more than Gary.

Tell him your universal monster psychological theory. Frankenstein is a baby. He's confused. He just wants to be loved and accepted. Everything, he's just been thrown into this life. The wolfman is adolescence. Your body, your voice, everything is changing and you have

no control over it. Dracula is what every guy wants to be. You want to control women. You want to be charming. They keep going. The mummy is how we wind up.

The mummy is old age. But, wow. I never thought of Universal Monsters takes you through all the stages. He's profound, this guy that says that. No, that's great. That's great. Isn't that wild? Yeah.

I particularly like that wolf man and the adolescence and the changes. Well, I mean, they made I Was a Teenage Werewolf. Right. That act literally. And Teen Wolf. I mean, they also did it as a comedy. Kind of nailed it. But that's pretty cool.

Yeah. Yeah, he's a deep thinker. But you want to know something? If it's stuff you don't need to know about. But here's the stuff. All very funny and everything, but these movies were so good, they stimulate thoughts like that. And they are wonderful. And the actors kind of knew.

I mean, Karloff knew he was doing an innocent thrust into this crazy world. And I think Kurt Sianamak, because it was supposed to be an identical story. It's like, you know, here this guy had this fate thrust on him. And with Sianamak, you know, his life changed. Yeah. But I heard that he used to go out, he had a big garden, and he would go out every morning and yell out, thank you, Hitler. Wow. Yikes.

Wow, wow, wow. Whoa. Tell people where they can get the books. Now, this is one of four that you did in a series. Yeah, yeah, that fantastic press group there. The first one was the top 100 horror movies. The second one was the top 100 sci-fi movies. The third is the top 100 fantasy movies.

And then the last one was the top 100 comic book movies, which was dated the minute it came out, obviously. Right, of course. They're spinning those out. comic book movies, which was dated the minute it came out, obviously. Right, of course. But yeah. Spinning those out. For years and years, it would always be horror, sci-fi, and fantasy with the three aspects of fantastic cinema. Now we have to include comic book fantasy because it looms so large.

And people can get these books on Amazon. Oh, yeah. You can order them. They can get your wonderful Bible, which we've plugged before, Fantastic Television. Yeah, that's still out there. Which is still out there. And then there's still the original Bible. We still get that, too.

Which is good, too. Hey, listen, once I actually tried to sell a series called The Greatest Horror Stories of the Bible, because there's possession stories, there are monster stories. It's true. Gary, this is fun. This is the perfect Halloween show. We thank you. I feel like I'm with my old friends

just hanging out. We'll come back and we'll do something else. I made another list, by the way. We'll do it for another show of more obscure Universal Horror Films. Listen, we could go on forever. We could go on and on forever. And we haven't even gotten to the 50s.

Yes, Gary brought us a very old issue of the Monster Times. What is the year on that? God, this was about 72. It was my first professional writing. I started my career as a writer by being the creature from the Black Lagoon in an article that was an autobiographical article. So I actually got to be one of my favorite universal monsters. That's what started my writing career. Hey, Rico Browning's still around.

Think he'd be up for an interview? Wow, that would be cool. Ben Chapman, who's the other actor, has left us now. Because he played the creature on land. And the actress, the leading lady, Julie Adams. We missed that. That was an opportunity missed.

I believe Laurie Nelson is still around. She was the leading lady in Revenge of the Creature. Give us a her. We missed that. That was an opportunity missed. I believe Laurie Nelson is still around. She was the leading lady in Revenge of the Creature. Give us a list. We've got to get these people on the show. Gilbert loves this stuff. Yes. I couldn't tell. As you can see.

Perfect Halloween show. Thanks, Gare. Hey, listen. I'm in town. Why not? Why don't I just stop by and do this stuff? I'm Gilbert Gottfried. But you're right.

You were mentioning you've got to do a Val Luton show. We will. All this other stuff. We will. I'm Gilbert Gottfried, and I've been sitting here with my co-host, Frank Fanto-Baldre. Frank Fanto-Baudry. And this has been Gilbert and Frank's Amazing Colossal Obsessions.

Not bad. Damn good. Thanks, Gare. My pleasure. Happy Halloween, everybody. Thank you. 🎵🎵🎵 🎵🎵🎵 L'esprit de l'esprit © BF-WATCH TV 2021