Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Mini #241: Remembering Paul Lynde with author Cathy (Fitzgibbon) Rudolph

Episode Date: November 7, 2019

This week: "Bye Bye Birdie!" The Comedy of Alice Ghostley! The ageless Peter Marshall! And Gil and Frank pay "tribute" to "The Paul Lynde Halloween Special"! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And this is Gilbert and Frank's amazing Colossal Obsessions. Gilbert and Frank's amazing colossal obsessions. And we have a woman who's written a book about a guy we've spoken to a lot of times, spoken about a lot of times on this show. And that is, and the book is called Paul Lynn, a biography. His life, his love, and his laughter. And we have Kathy Fitzgibbon Rudolph. Yes.

I like that name. Well, thank you. Bit of a mouthful. Yeah, it is. My fellow Long Islander. That's right. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Well, you listen to the show, Kathy.

You know that Paul Lynde has been, I mean. He's a highlight of your show. He's one of them. I mean, there are certain people whose names come up on this show constantly. Yeah, along with Cesar Romero. And Paul Lynde and Gilbert. Gilbert has a classic story that he likes to tell about Paul. But your fascination with him goes all the way back to childhood.

Yes, 17 years old. And it's a very sweet book. Thank you. Yeah. So tell us how and at what age you became such a devoted Paul fan. At 15, I saw Paul in on the Hollywood Squares. I'd seen him on Bewitched,

but with the unique personality, the campiness, the whole bit, I just thought he was... Uncle Arthur. Yeah, exactly. I thought he was very handsome, very quick-witted, never seen anybody in the world like him. So I thought he was handsome, and I said, I'd like to meet him one day, like any teenage wants to meet their idol. At 17 years old, having done research about two years on Pauline, I was in my hometown of Levittown, Long Island. And I went through a book about Broadway stars.

And in the book, this is after a lot of research, in the book, it said, Paul Lynn's business manager's phone number. So I went home. I said to my mom and dad, can I call California? You know, I live in New York. And they said, make it person to person.

He's never going to answer. I dialed the number. Paul Lynn himself answers the phone. Can't believe a fan finds the phone number. In those days, they were so irresponsible to just publish a number in a book in a library. There were a bunch of, well, Stan Laurel had his name in the book. There were people who were listed for whatever reason. Yeah, there were a bunch of people.

That's how Chuck McCann found Stan Laurel. Yes. Just found him in the phone book. There you go. Yeah. So you did the same. So I did the same. reason yeah there were a bunch of people that's how uh chuck mccann found stan laurel yes found him in the phone book there you go yeah so you did the same so i did the same and but paul and he was shocked he couldn't believe somebody found his phone number he says i'm unlisted how did you get it but i kept talking to him about his career he didn't hang up shockingly and then in the middle of me talking about donnie and marie osmond and all the shows he was on I said will you go to the senior prom with me I love this most teenage girls at that point are crushing on the Bay City Rollers

or John Schneider it's on Paul Lynn Donnie Osmond I took down the posters Paul Lynn replaced them all you are unique and Paul said I can't go with you. No way. And I said, no way. And he went in his voice, you know, no way. And then he left. And then I talked to him about his dog. And then I went into, I know you come to New York. I want to meet you.

He said, I can't meet you. I don't even know you. Long story short, after begging, pleading, I said, Thanksgiving's coming. I know you visit New York in Thanksgiving. He says, I'm coming. I said, meet me.. I know you visit New York in Thanksgiving. He says, I'm coming. I said, meet me. Five minutes and a picture. After a few no's, I said, I'll have my father take me.

Then he said, you got it. Five minutes in New York City. I'll call you when I get to the Pier Hotel. That's where he was staying. Two weeks later, Paul calls. I had given him my number, and he said, I'm going to be at the Pier at 3.30. Meet me there with your father. How about that? Okay, so the day comes. I go into he said, I'm going to be at the pier at 3.30. Meet me there with your father. How about that?

Okay, so the day comes. I go into the city. I'm a wreck. I'm really excited. I got five minutes with him, and that's a dream for me to come true. And I bet my high school teachers that I would meet him before I graduated. Who would know this would happen, right? So I told them we had to watch Hollywood Squares if I did that during class.

You had a bet with your high school teachers that you would meet Paul Lynn. Before I graduated high school. It's unbelievable. So I go into Manhattan. We go to the Hotel Pierre, Paul and I, I mean my dad and I. And as we get to the Hotel Pierre, it's on fire. No one can come up. No one can come down.

I said, I got to meet him. My father goes, let's get out of here. The flames, the firemen are running through. And I said, I don't care if it burns down. I have to meet him. Two minutes later, Paul came through the revolving doors. He was running a little late. Thank goodness, because it worked out for me. And we tried to go into the room to have a drink. And they told Paul, you don't have your tie on. Paul says, how do I get my tie when the rooms are on fire and I can't go upstairs? He was really annoyed. He gets like ah

so he said let's go down to the sherry netherlands he said i promised you five minutes well the conversation went on for two and a half hours wow we just clicked even though you found him shy he very quiet i would ask him questions he answered always honest i knew another side of him that a lot of holly Hollywood you know if you worked with him could be different but for me very genuine very caring

a lot of fun but at the end of two and a half hours of talking and my dad always says you guys were like old friends you just clicked

that's nice that's sweet it was great he trusted you enough to tell you right off the bat that the questions at Hollywood Square as the jokes were written for him

that was what I was gonna yep I said very innocently Paul Mr. Mr. Lind, I called him. You know what stands out with this? It's odd. It doesn't even have to do so much with Paul Lind. But I remember my childhood and part of my adulthood, the idea of a long-distance call.

Yeah. Used to be that, remember when it was called? It was a big deal. Yeah. It be that remember when it was a big deal yeah yeah you wouldn't call uh if it was the queen of england you wouldn't call long distance but it's very sweet that he not only stayed on the phone with you he didn't hang up right away he didn't have some kind of star trip he obviously knows this is a teenage girl who likes me, likes my work, and then gives you a private audience. Yeah. Which is, you know...

It was great. There's a lot of, there have been a lot of aspersions cast about Paul over the years, and even some by the celebrities in your book. But here he is meeting a fan and he couldn't be more genuine. I'm more genuine, and I said to him, you know, the jokes on Hollywood Squares, I love them.

Do you write them? And he said, no, dear, I don't. Someone writes them for me. As simple as that. And when did you find out you weren't going to be his wife or boyfriend? There's a story with that. Yeah, tell that one.

All right, I'll tell that one. But real quick, at the end of me and Paul meeting, he said, you have my phone number. Here's my home address. Come see me. That's how we ended in the city. And as life went on and I got to be with Paul a little bit more, he'd visit the island. I did go out to his house.

I wasn't quite sure if he was gay. I really was naive. How old were you at this point? At this time, probably 19. All right, so you're starting to figure that out for yourself. That's not naive. That's brain damage. Yes, it was. At 14, I was like starting to figure that out for yourself. That's not naive. That's brain damage. Yes, it was.

At 14, I was like, go on, go on with it. That's like not knowing Rip Taylor. Well, she was, you know, a little bit of a provincial small town girl. It's also denial. It was also denial. It was also denial. It was very affectionate towards me, and I thought it was nice. So we go out one night.

It was my birthday. I met Paul in Virginia with my girlfriend. He had done a show, and afterwards, it was my birthday. We were So we go out one night. It was my birthday. I met Paul in Virginia with my girlfriend. He had done a show, and afterwards, it was my birthday, we were going to go out dancing. So I kind of had a hint when we walked into this disco, and it was mostly men. Like, I was getting a hint there.

Oh, jeez. And now we're sitting around, and the whole night was great. I had fun. I was with Elizabeth Allen. She was lovely. Oh, yeah, she worked a lot with him. Oh, yeah, and we had a great time.

Laughing all night. Paul was always joking with me. Oh, yeah. We had a great time laughing all night. Paul was always joking with me. He used to bring me in like I was the star when we'd walk into the place. How sweet. And then a guy jumps on Paul. I love you. I love you. And I'm standing there.

I love him more. I'm sorry. Yeah. And the guy's grabbing Paul and then he's begging him with his legs and Paul's trying to walk. This guy's being dragged. I mean, they really loved him. And then Paul and I were dancing. Men were trying to cut in.

I don't know if they're trying to cut in for me or for Paul. I couldn't figure this out. And then Paul and I were dancing to a slow dance. It's the end of the night. I'm going to go fast forward to, you know, when they flick the lights. It's the last moment. And all night long, we sat at a table. We had the best bartender.

You know, they treated him like a king. He could have blinked, and the drinks were there. And then we were dancing slowly, and it's the last dance, and it's very romantic. And I'm thinking, wow, I know Paul goes out. He keeps going out all night. I wonder where we're going to go next. And then the lights flickered, and Paul came over and says, good night, Kathy. My mouth dropped.

And then he walked out with our waiter. There you that was a crushing blow there you go you know i learned a lot about his childhood from the book too i mean we knew that he'd always battled weight issues his whole life he had a strange relationship with food oh yeah certainly a strange relationship with drink we had charlotte ray yes on this podcast too and they went to northwestern together they did and and cloris leachman was there as well they were sort of a they were sort of a fun trio but i found it interesting too the way he gravitated to comedy but because he was doing shakespeare he was doing cyrano at northwestern but every time he opened his mouth everybody would crack up the teacher would be rolling down the floor he He just couldn't do it straight.

Because he was so broad. And his twang and his accent. And he was also very heavy. So he's trying to do a romantic Cyrano scene. It isn't working. And he played up to it. It became apparent that comedy was his. The question in show business, who

came first? Paul Lynn or Alice Ghost? Should I tell you the truth oh do you all want to know yes yes okay 1952 new faces paul and alice meet she goes on with her voice and her jokes so i listened to her first paul came on second this is in 52 you can see it on youtube it's new faces yeah with with robert clary that's right and i interviewed him as well but uh there they were i looked and i said alice has a little bit more of a nasally you know drawn out voice at that time i listened to paul he did the trip to africa yes that was his famous bit a little different voice as time went on i think they all steal from

each other charles nelson reilly they all do it to each other so you know paul forgive me but i think alice might have been first a little bit interesting because i studied it i wanted to know he never thought she was kind of swiping his his stick they were the best of friends best of friends she held a little talk like that too she did. They were the same person. Like sister and brother. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And both turned up on Bewitched. That's right. Right. They were very good friends until the end. She was Esmeralda or somebody on Bewitched. So he struggled in New York.

I mean, after college, he came to New York. He gave himself, what, five years to become rich and famous? Wasn't happening. But he struggled mightily when he got to New York.

He had to sell his blood. He lived in a building with Marlon Brando and Wally Cox. Do you guys know that? He lived in that building and he stole their food at night. He raided their fridges. And then one night they stuck a note in there. Paul, pick anything you want. It's poisoned.

They put a note in the fridge. One of these is poison. Because he had a weight problem and he kept stealing the food of the other actors. And what was going on between Brando and Wally Cox? They were very good friends. It's another book. I don't know. That's another story.

I wish I had asked Paul. That's a whole other book. That's something I think about a lot. Somebody wrote about it. It's a very interesting story. I did something I think about a lot. Somebody wrote about it. It's a very interesting story. I did read it. So he started getting TV work. Eventually, he does a Bilko.

He does Red Button Show. He does Martha Ray Show. And he's starting to get a little work. But he winds up. Sporadic, yeah. It's very sporadic. And New Faces of 1952 isn't the huge break. No, not at all. that it was supposed to be.

But Bye Bye Birdie was a big break. Paul, right before he was doing Bye Bye Birdie, I don't know if you guys know this, but he was very suicidal at that point. He was going to just, that was it. He said, I don't know if he would have went through with it, but he said, I'm very depressed, the whole bit. And he went to a therapist and she said, you just need to work. That's all you need is to work okay fine meanwhile he gets a phone call from gower champion yeah who says i have a spot for you well paul's ecstatic this is supposed to be a big play he goes there it's nine lines he wants to he

has a fit he throws a hissy fit in the place you know he stormed out because it was only nine lines geez and uh gower champion said pa, I promise we'll make it grow. I promise this will work for you. And in the end, as you all know, the Broadway play is what gave him the first real showbiz celebrity status in his life. That was the first time he felt like a star. That and Uncle and Bewitched were like the two big breakthroughs. And kids, what you gonna do with these kids today? Kids, why talk and talk?

Why can't they be like we were? Perfect in every way. What is wrong with these kids today? Very good. Very good, Gilbert Lynn. You're bringing back good memories. Love it.

Dick Godier was in that. Yes. Cheetah Rivera. Dick Van Dyke, who we had on this podcast. So was Dick Godier. He was Conrad Brody. Yes, yes.

That's right. Yeah, yeah. But he's some squabbles with cast members. Oh, yeah. And just a little bit of diva behavior. Maybe a lot. Cheetah Rivera said he was great, brought the house down.

But besides the scenes, he was giving her husband at the time, Tony, a very hard time. Because if the timing went off, they did something in the play. But when the music goes off, everybody's timing is different. But they didn't tell Tony. And it got onto Paul's line. Andul had a hissy fit on that they cheated him ended up because i spoke to her too and she ended up saying they ended up being friends dick gaudy he was very uh maybe jealous of him because he was getting more status yeah and he used to tell because dick said to me um when i when i spoke to him he said yeah paul used to call, because Dick said to me when I spoke to him, he said, yeah, Paul used to call me like a teenage twerp. He goes, I was almost 30 years old. I don't know what his thing was about me.

Well, it's a recurring theme with him in his life. I mean, some petty jealousies. I mean, you know, very insecure. And he used to hit the bottle. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He was a very, very big drinker. Now I've got to get to the story. You might as well. I'm amazed I waited this long. Okay, what are we doing? This is a story Peter Marshall confirmed.

Yes. I've heard this about him a lot. Well, this isn't addressing her. Oh, okay. Oh, good, because I was going to warn Kathy. That's okay. I've heard. I'm coming next.

Oh, I know. He'll close with that. And, you know, I worked when Whoopi Goldberg and Henry Winkler were doing Hollywood Squares. I was like semi-regular on there. And one of the guys producing it was a producer in the original. It was a producer in the original. And he said that Paul Lynn was, among hating other people, was viciously anti-Semitic. And he would, like during the lunch hour, everyone would be having a great time telling stories and making jokes.

And Paul Lynn, bombed out of his skull, would be there going, Oh, those fucking Jews. They're the reason I don't have a career. Roll with it, Kathy. The Jews have held me back all this time. I want to clarify. Peter Marshall did not confirm that one. Bruce Valanche did. Bruce Valanche said a couple of drinks

and Paul was like the Wannsee Conference. That's what he said. Bad, bad. Yeah Valanche did. Bruce Valanche said a couple of drinks and Paul was like the WAN-C conference. That's what he said. Bad, bad. Yeah, so bad. The other story... Okay, get it out of the way. No, here we go. If you thought the language in the first story... The lady's son is in the next room.

He's a teenager. He can handle it. Ryan, you might not want to record this part. Maybe this time. I'm already going off. You might want to call a cab before I go into this one. One time. No.

You've heard it on the show. Oh, gosh. I know what's coming. They led Paul in. They were walking through the dressing room I guess it was like the gold diggers supposedly

and Paul then said ready take a deep breath I apologize in advance this place smells like cunt I think I'm done you got a big laugh out of a person who knew paul lynn personally there you go now can you confirm or deny oh that's probably paul i wasn't there

he was a gentleman with me but that could be he was a gentleman he was probably playing we will return to gilbert god Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. Baseball is finally back. Get in on Major League action and swing for the fences with BetMGM, the king of sportsbooks. Log in or sign up to play along as BetMGM brings the real-time action. Embrace a season's worth of swings with BetMGM, your one-stop shop for all things baseball.

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Because at TD Insurance, we understand that your business is unique, so your business insurance should be too. Whether you're a shop owner, a pet groomer, a contractor, or a consultant, you can get customized coverage for your business. Contact a licensed TD Insurance advisor to learn more. Contact a licensed TD insurance advisor to learn more. Now, what about the anti-Semitic stuff? I've heard that a lot. The man was anti a few things. He was outrageous.

You know, whatever was pissing him off that day. You know, if your last name sounded like you were Jewish, you might get it. If you were Irish, you were a dumb mick. You know, you don't know what he's going to say. Charlotte Ray was one of his closest friends, and she was, I think, part Jewish or full Jewish. I don't even know. One of the things that recurs in the book is how the friendships, you know, with Cheetah, with Kay Ballard,

where they would lose patience with him for long stretches, write him off, and then he would always kind of worm his way back into their lives. I think Kay had the most, she was the most interesting to talk to she had good stories bad stories and oh and paul was this and paul was that and uh she said he had more money than me after a while he just had more money than me would go to his house brand new house he's having a housewarming party

well no one's allowed in because he doesn't want anybody to mess the place up you don't want anybody to touch anything and there's a story some say it's true some say it's not the way he died oh some say that there was some young guy he picked up and the guy likes could have called the ambulance but didn't and just snuck off. Here. Yeah. I've been at Paul's house. Yeah.

He has an alarm. He has an alarm by his bed. The whole house is alarmed. If somebody did sneak in, they would have had to set the alarm before they left. Didn't make sense to me. Right.

He was found by friends in the middle of the night when he didn't show up for, was it a New Year's Eve party? Paul Barisi was having a birthday party. I spoke to Paul himself and I said, did you go to every window? Did you every door he said kathy i tried everything i

believe that because he just couldn't believe paul didn't show up for his birthday party and he was laying in bed thinking oh my gosh that's not like paul he already told me i'm bringing a gift why didn't you show up so he went out to look for him and nobody can answer the dog the dog was barking yes for this dog at the time. It said. You know what? Paul liked to cruise on Saturday nights for sure. Maybe he did go out, meet somebody, but it doesn't look like they were still in the house.

There was no sign of foul play of any kind. No, no. They just started a heart attack. He had taxed his heart. Well, his mother died at 54. His father died at 53 or 54. They all died within three months of each other. And he had abused his body.

And he was also overweight. And overweight and a heavy drinker and a smoker. Was he ever even threatened with blackmail? Yes. Yeah. He was threatened with blackmail. His house was robbed, and somebody actually left him a note, if you go to the police, I have blackmail on you so paul picked up the phone and called 9-1-1 that was

he didn't care he didn't care he was you know he felt hollywood squares and this is interesting i mean there was a love-hate relationship with his success on hollywood squares too because it was making him rich it was making him famous but he felt trapped in a, pardon the pun. Literally trapped in a box. Trapped in a box. And he constantly worried that he was being looked down upon, not only as a TV star, because he wanted to do features. Yes. Not only was he being looked down as a TV guy, but even worse, a game show guy. A game show. Yeah, he went to Northwestern for acting. He did a lot of Summer Stack.

Exactly. I've seen him do Plaza Suite and some, you know, live shows on, he was good. And here he was. Sure he was. Tormented by this idea that his talent wasn't being.

Exactly. But in the 70s, as we all know, he was probably the most wanted extra guest on any show. Absolutely.

I mean, I list them all in the book. I probably left two out because there's so many of them, but. He turns up in the 60s too.

You see him on Genie, on F Troop, on The Munsters. That's right. He had that short series where he was the Victorian detective. That never aired. Oh, it never aired.

He said it was his best, of course. Didn't air. No, but you know. Forgive me. Yeah. He was on everything. Do you remember? Yeah.

Dr. Dudley on The Munsters. He was the Mountie on F Troop. Henry Ford, The Family. Does anybody remember that? He was on that. And a million variety shows. Carol Burnett, everything, yeah. Every Donny and Marie, every Carol Burnett, Mac Davis.

There was no way you were going to watch him in a drama. That's what people thought. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you know what Bill Asher said? He said Paul had enough depth that he could have done it. But nobody took him seriously. He played a killer on something.

Cable Roberts? Uh-huh. Cable Roberts? One show he played. Yeah, it's called Cable Roberts, I think. Yeah, I'm trying to remember. Yeah, he did play a murderer. Yeah, and he wanted to then pursue that.

And Cable said, Paul, what are you doing? People know you for your voice. They know you as funny. You can't be taking this seriously. But was but it didn't happen what is your opinion and we had uh valanche here and he said we were talking about this before we turned the mics on that paul really could never succeed as a star as a guy who was a star of his own vehicle because he was too i think bruce said something to the effect that he was just too strong a spice so you had to have a little bit of it and not a whole thing and then peter marshall said something similar in your book yes if you it's like having chocolate mousse you can only have a couple of tastes otherwise it's too much you don't want it

you don't want it as a meal so he really was sort of too too too powerful like like a Charles Nelson Reilly. He was too powerful a character for an audience to identify. He tried to play a father in the Paul Lynn show. He tried to do a domestic sitcom. That's what always got me is growing up, you could have guys like Paul Lynn or Charles Nelson Reilly with a wife and kids. Yeah, nobody questioned it. Yeah, people bought it. You said, oh, he's eccentric.

That's what I thought he was. Okay, gotcha. He's eccentric. That's what, if someone was flamboyantly gay, oh, they're eccentric. Or sometimes they would be evil. oh, they're eccentric. Or sometimes they would be evil. You know, you could have like a guy working,

being a feminine, and then it was like an evil guy. He would steal things that he was in. I mean, and by the way, he made such an impression as Uncle Arthur on Bewitched. Actually, only 11 episodes. That's right, only 11. He only did 11 shows.

And people think of him as being a fixture. Like he was in every one. On that show. But you couldn't, you know, he stole a lot of the things that he was in. Yes, he did. You couldn't take your eyes off him. No, no. He was the, and he didn't like to be with animals or children because he said, oh, they'd steal the spotlight. So he loved the spotlight.

I think if he had a really good writer and showed him maybe as a sad, broken person, and then you could throw some comedy in, he might have had a shot. But no one wanted to put Paul in in a serious role. That was the end of it. Well, then Bill Asher put him in Temperatures Rising, but that wasn't his fault. Because that was already with Cleavon Little. You remember that show? It's a medical show.

And they added Paul. I guess they added Paul when the show was already kind of flailing. Yes, they did. They kept Cleavon little you remember that show what's a medical show yes and they added paul i guess they added paul when the show was already kind of flailing yes they did they kept cleveland little cleavon little and paul and um i can't remember james whitmore then yeah right then that's when someone's thrown in like can you please save us yes exactly he was brought on as a saver but he couldn't save it couldn't save it i i wonder if those Paul Lynn shows are available to go back and watch them now. Paul Lynn Show is now on Antenna TV. Is it on Antenna? Yes.

What's it like to watch him now playing a dad in 2019? Oh, my goodness. In a domestic sitcom. Well, Paul, on New Year's Eve last year, I had a commercial I was doing with my book during that marathon. I don't know if you guys know they did the marathon, Paul and Marathon. I didn't see it, no. Okay, it was on New Year's Eve. I had friends over.

Okay. So I'm watching an episode, and then, you know, I figured, okay, they've seen enough. Either they want to watch the ball drop. Do you know, these are all adults that, friends of mine, husbands, don't, we want to watch the show. I said, you guys like this? I mean, I like it because I have a partial interest in the man. They all loved it. And you know, I think the show's doing better now.

It's actually, if you listen to it, I think Bruce Flinch might have helped some of those lines, but they're really beyond those years. And I think it was, people weren't ready for it. Now it's entertaining enough. Well, the Hollywood Squares, those jokes still hold up. Oh gosh, yes. The bits he was doing in the 70s were as funny as ever. Oh, yes.

What did Paul Lynn ever talk about? I mean, I'm sure he did. Only like gay actors playing straight. Gay, you know, closeted gay. What did he think? He didn't. He never brought that he didn't he never brought that up he just never brought that up i mean i've been out with him where we did a um he was doing a benefit and in the middle of the benefit a man came up and said i want to interview you paul in for the children's uh benefit and paul said of course and he was very happy to do it right in the middle of the interview the guy says so what do you think

about anita bryant and me all i knew was she was the orange juice lady i had no idea that she was a campaign against gay people at that time i had no idea and so paul looked at me and he said let's get out of here he shut it down exactly and later on we were at his house i said so so naive i'm sitting with all these people so paul's telling everybody about anita brian and the reporter and i said very honestly paul what does anita brian have to do with you he didn't but he wasn't comfortable talking about himself he didn't do talk shows he avoided talk shows because he didn't like talking he didn't want to dive that deep he didn't want to dive that deep. He didn't want to reveal. He's too insecure. Too insecure.

And he's afraid he wouldn't be funny. Right. And that's why he used to stay after shows and just autograph. But what's interesting is if you watch the trajectory of Hollywood Squares and how the jokes become more and more revealing. Oh, my goodness. Oh, yes. Why do motorcycle riders wear leather or whatever it is? And what does he say?

Because chiffon wrinkles.on wrinkles i mean for gradually you had to be an idiot to not see that that not only was he maybe struggling with it but the writers were helping him oh they were they were bloody you know what he was out come out in his own way they would say you know paul uh what was one of the ones i love is um in the wizard of oz the lion wanted a heart the tin man no i'm sorry the lion wanted courage the tin man wanted a heart what did the scarecrow man want and paul said he wanted the tin man to notice him this is on tv yeah back in the 60s yeah there were a lot of those It's funny when they talk about Paul Lynn and they'll say, oh, you know, they'd ask a question and he'd sneak in. And it's like, no, the questions were always have to do with being gay. It was like a double meaning, but always.

Yeah, you got it. And one day he was playing a narcissist on the nighttime Hollywood squares. And in the middle of him doing his questioning, they start playing, I feel pretty. I feel pretty and witty and gay. Paul's dying. And he's looking at him like, I'll kill you guys. I mean, it was just so funny. He put on a gown for storybook squares. He actually went and dragged.

Okay, we have to talk. It's a in drag. Okay, we have to talk. It's a day before Halloween, so we have to talk about the infamous Paul Lynn Halloween special. We're throwing red meat to the listeners here. This one runs neck and neck with Bob Hope with Joys. Although Bob Hope with Joys is hard to watch. Yes. This one is just, and this is an entertaining train wreck. Yes.

Because it's got Pinky Tuscadero. Oh, yes, yes. It's got Tim Conway as a biker. Yeah, it's one of those. Paul is a trucker. Kiss shows up. It's one of those, no, no, this isn't really happening.

Now, Bruce told us he didn't really know who Kiss was. No, he did not really know who he was. Do you know he didn't know who Elton John was either and Elton John called him? That's in the book. Wow.

Elton John was a fan and he had no idea. But Kiss was great on Halloween. How is that possible? There's a great picture of him, Alice Cooper, and Elton John

floating around the web. Somebody posted it on our Listener Society today. That Halloween special. Florence Henderson. She's great. Billy Barty. Oh, is it Margaret Hamilton?

Margaret Hamilton's in there. Betty White does a little sneak in. It's really a great cast. It is a great cast. And the lines are funny. I think, you know, he's saying, Betty White, there she is. She's like another witch. You know, he just does little dings to each person.

I think Billy Hayes shows up as witchy poo. That's right. She's great. From Sid and Marty. That's right. She's great. From Sid and Marty. It's special. They have a disco in the middle of the show. You have a disco dance. You got some variety skits. Tim Conway and Paul. And Pauline's a trucker. He's a trucker covered in sequins.

She was the rhinestone trucker, yes. That special is when you drop bad ass shit. It's great you just watched it today on the way over here i watched it again on the way over here i watched a few weeks ago i said let me watch it again i'm in the mood it's all right i bought it on on dvd i just had i had to own it i don't even want to go to youtube i had to have it in my house it's so wonderfully bad and so wonderful at the same time.

When was the last time you saw him? 1981. A few weeks, not too long before he passed away. He passed in January of 82. Yeah, yeah. I went to see him in Canada and had a great time with him. Everything was good. He looked fine. He was a little tired.

Someone had tried to sneak behind him with a weapon in their autograph book who knows if the guy was going to attack him or not that's a wild story it was pretty stressful pretty stressful time but he was fine i had a great time we went out to dinner we had a great time and then when i was leaving him paul was very superstitious and he had a lot of anxiety and a lot of fears he really truly did um and you know as i was leaving him i said okay goodbye paul and he always said never say goodbye that's a sweet thing in the book he didn't like farewells he didn't like farewells with anybody sincerely or goodbyes yeah yeah don't say goodbye just say i'll see you soon right so because he was haunted in a way by losing so many people early in life. He lost his brother. He lost his parents. Yeah, and he just hated goodbyes.

And when I said that by accident, it's weird, I said goodbye. And that was the last time I physically saw him. But it's sweet that you had a crush on this star. And we talk about on this show the danger of meeting your heroes. Oh, yeah. But, you know, like how disappointed I was

when I first met Gilbert. And that endures, that feeling. To this day. But he was sweet. He accepted you. He wasn't threatened. That's what it was. He saw you. He wasn't threatened. That's what it was. He saw authenticity.

He knew you were a fan. He knew you were just in his corner. Yeah, he said I always feel very safe when I'm with you, Kathy. He always said that. A friendship that went on for years. Yeah, it went on until he passed away. But it was a good time. One of the other things in the book is this,

I don't want to say he was carrying a torch for Marilyn, for his high school sweetheart, but it's almost as if, and we're speculating here, but it's almost as if that he saw an easier life, he saw an easier path being straight and being married. I spoke to her. And kind of pined for that. Yeah, I asked her, did you really like each other?

I want to know. She said, oh yeah, very sincerely. But she ended up sending him a wedding invitation when he was at college or something. He went, oh, she's

getting married to somebody else? Okay, that was it. He brought a lot of joy to a lot of people. And a shame, so many demons and that he was done in by them at a fairly early age. Yeah.

He could be generous and he could be troubled. And, you know, that's what a lot of Hollywood people, not you guys, though. No, no, we're well adjusted. I can see that. It's a very sweet. No, but I hate the Jews also. Here we go. Here we go.

It's a very, very sweet book. Paul Lynn, a biography, his life, his loves, and his laughter. With a forward by our friend Peter Marshall. Yes. Peter Marshall, by the way, has got to be 95 years old and sounds 60. He's unbelievable. He sounds better than I do. Same voice.

Oh, yeah. You can't miss that. Yep. He was terrific. He's still doing the big Oh, yeah. You can't miss that. Yep. He was terrific. He's still doing the big band on Channel 13. Can you believe that? That guy is just unsinkable. Yeah.

Where can people get the book? On Amazon? Amazon. It's got a lot of pictures. I'm doing some eBay just for a very short time. Limited personalized copies for anybody who's listening to the show or goes on eBay. You can find it there. Or my Facebook page. in a biography his life his love and his laughter it's a little long but it's the title of the book wonderful and i have it on there as well and

that's by kathy fitzgibbon rudolph paul in a biography his life his loves and his laughter the book is great thanks for putting up with our silliness and our rudeness. Oh, you guys are fun. You're fun. Paul would be laughing his head off. Woody, that's sweet. We love hearing that. Thanks for schlepping in. Well, thanks for having us.

Thanks, Kath. Oh, this has been Gilbert and Frank's amazing... Ah, I fucked it up. It's all right. Do it as Paul. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my goodness. This has been Gilbert and Frank's amazing colossal obsessions. Oh, I'm having an obsession right now.

Thank you, Kathy. I love it. You guys are really a lot of fun. Kids, I don't know what's wrong with these kids today. I love it. You guys talk and talk to your face as well. Kids, but they still do just what they want to do. Why can't they be like we were? Perfect in every way.

What's the matter with kids today? Kids. I don't mind the midnight swim. It's the loop-a-loop that hurts. Kids! How we ever beat the Russians? Kids! I didn't know what puberty was, so I almost passed it. Laughin', singin', dancin', grinnin', morons.

While we're on the subject, kids, they are just impossible to control. Kids with their awful clothes and their rock and roll. Why can't they dance like we did? What's wrong with Sammy King? What's the matter with kids today?