Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Mini Ep #126: The History of the Muppets, Part 2 with Craig Shemin

Episode Date: August 24, 2017

This week: Burns and Schreiber! Patchett and Tarses! The "ventriloquism" of Edgar Bergen! Vincent Price covers Carole King! And Gilbert wins a date with Kermit! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, Ontario, got any plans? How about a trip to the casino right here, right now? With DraftKings Casino, all your favorite games are in the palm of your hand. Play the classics like blackjack, roulette, slots, and baccarat. Or take a spin on exclusive games you won't find anywhere else. Experience the excitement of the casino floor right on your phone. Download the app and play whatever, wherever, and whenever. Your options for fun are endless.

On DraftKings Casino, your way is the only way to play. Join the fun on your time, in your space, and within your means. The best part is it's safe, secure, and reliable. So deposits and withdrawals happen when you're ready. Go all in on fun with DraftKings Casino. Head to the App Store to download. Explore a full suite of games and find your favorites today. DraftKings Casino.

The crown is yours. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario. 1-866-531-2600. 19 and over and physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See casino.draftkings.com for details. Please play responsibly. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and this is Gilbert and Frank's Amazing Colossal Obsessions, where once again, we're quoting at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Berderosa.

Thank you, Frankie. Colossal Obsessions. Our guest this week has been on the show before. He has. week we has been on the show before he has he's the president of the jim henson legacy craig sheman and i'm happy to be back by popular demand yes you are back which is fun because the first episode hasn't hasn't been dropped yet as they say oh i like that that's very professional yes i i reminded uh so he didn't say Shemin when I wrote it down for him. I said Shemin as in Shemp.

So we did a Muppet episode previously. We did, we did. And we talked about everything. We talked about the origins of the Muppets. We talked about the old days. We talked about how Jim got to Sesame Street. Did we talk about the nightclub that Jim wanted to open? We did not talk about the nightclub.

That was fun. Phyllis Inn. Yeah. Jim wanted to open up a nightclub in 1960s called Cyclea. And he wanted to have one of these inflatable things like they had the tennis courts in. And he wanted to project film on dancing girls and things. That's very laughing. Oh, yeah.

They shot film on it. They actually got permission to shoot the Screaminreaming Girls at a Beatles concert in Shea Stadium. They couldn't shoot the Beatles, but they were allowed to shoot the Screaming Girls. And they shot off the back of motorcycles, the bright lights of the city. And they put together the film. But at the end, they couldn't actually do the nightclub because you had to do business with certain people in the 60s to do a sort of nightclub in New York. That's interesting.

And I forgot your answer. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention. Was Henson, was he one of those people who believed that, because I asked you this, that believed that he was against medicine and medical treatment? He grew up in a Christian science family, but he had doctors. I think he didn't go to the doctor a lot because he didn't get sick. So when he did die, he didn't think he was as sick as he was. Oh.

And that was a thing. He was always working when he was sick. He was a workaholic. Yeah, yeah. I'll be asking again later in the show. That's okay. This is going to shock you. Gilbert's actually a Christian scientist.

Yes. Well, only one of those two things would shock me, actually. Right. Actually, neither of them are true. The scientists, I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah, they gave me a special membership. They were doing that one chew only. It was a quota system.

So we've actually had a lot of requests from listeners, you know, do a Muppet show. We ran out of time last time. There's so much to get to. Yeah, so we were just about to get into the Muppet show, the actual meet event. Yes, so tell us, this I find interesting. An ex podcast guest was involved in the show originally. And that was Slaughter. George Slaughter. Do you know that Gil? He was. I mean, was this around the Ed Sullivan days? No, this was in the very early seventies. Seventies. George Slaughter and Jim were going to produce the show together. And if you go to

YouTube or on one of the DVD sets of The Muppet Show, you could see this sales film that they put together where you could see the sensibilities of both Jim and George Slaughter combined because they were saying things like, you know, we're all going to be temperamental and hard to work with, but you won't mind because we're going to be making lots of money. Interesting. That's an interesting pairing because George had had the laugh and pedigree at that point. And of course, turn on. Yeah. That was mentioned in the promotional video. Tim Conway. We've talked about that before. And George was sort of not part of it anymore by the time it became an actual thing.

Lord Lou Grade. Lord Lou Grade. Yeah. He was, I think, Sir Lou Grade at the time. Sir Lou Grade. I think the Muppets helped make him I think, Sir Lou Grade at the time. Sir Lou Grade. I think the Muppets helped make him a lord. So what happened? So was UK money came into the picture?

Yeah, what happened, they did a couple of half-hour specials for ABC when Michael Eisner was running the children's TV department. So they did the Muppets Valentine Show and they did the Muppet Show Sex and Violence, which was the title of it. And these were half-hour shows to try to show how the Muppets would be on prime time. And ABC didn't buy it. CBS, they tried to sell to CBS, and they didn't buy it on the network level. And in the middle of all that, Lou Grade came with an offer. He had ITC, syndication company, and ATV in England. and ATV in England.

And he came with an offer to produce 24 episodes, a full season, with the only condition that they do it in London, where he had a working studio. So he gave him a very generous budget. So the Muppets all went to England for the beginning of the Muppet Show. You know, I got a flashback because we were talking about laughing. Yeah. Just recently, I was out of town, and on one of the channels, they had an episode of laughing. It had Rowan and Martin, but the only recognizable cast member was Ruth Buzzy.

Really? There was no Henry Winkler, no Artie Johnson. Oh, Henry Gibson, you mean. Oh, Henry Winkler. Henry Gibson. I would have enjoyed Henry Winkler. They tried to get Henry Winkler. Yeah, there was no Henry Winkler.

And I say it twice. There was no Henry Gibson. Yep. No Henry Gibson, no Artie Johnson, no Goldie Hawn, What version of the elephant was that? They did a whole season, like the Hawn, no Joanne Worley. They did a whole season, like the last season, after George Schlatter left.

And they brought in Willie Tyler and Lester and Judd Strunk. Judd Strunk, correct. It was a one-hit wonder. They were on this. Yeah. That was after George Schlatter left, but Ruthie stayed on. Ruth Buzzy was the only one? So Alan Suess was gone and Gibson and Joanne Worley?

No, I think Alan Suess occasionally would dress up as Joanne Worley. Even Johnny Brown was in there. Johnny Brown is still around, by the way. We should get him on this show. No rush. He's in the green room. Bookman. Yeah, but just let's take our time on it.

Okay, so Lord Lugraid, Sir Lugraid at the time, gets involved. Yeah. The deal is that Jim has to take the Muppets overseas to do the Muppets show. And Jim was hesitant at first because he wanted a network. And this was going to be one of the first major original syndication shows. They had just turned that half hour of prime time over to local stations. So the local stations were looking for stuff they couldn't put on network reruns. So a lot of it was going to be game shows or whatever. So this was the chance to do whatever. And the famous variety producing

team of Smith and Hammion were around as consultants for the first few shows. And they had done everything. They had done everything. and they actually went way back with Jim because I think at least Gary Smith worked on Steve Allen Show when Jim and Jane Henson were doing the Steve Allen Show. And what was funny is that they always saw Jim as the college student. I heard later on when they were doing award shows into the into the 80s and Jim would go do an appearance. They were like, oh, Jimmy, bring the puppets over. You know, they never quite saw him as the legend that everyone else did.

He was just the college kid who had. That's interesting. The doll wiggling. And who was the head writer on the first season? Gilbert will get a kick out of this. Jack Burns. Oh, my God. Jack Burns was the head writer on the first season of Muppet Show.

Wow. And they got Avery Schreiber to come on as a guest for the first season. Now, they weren't Burns and Schreiber anymore at that point. They were not, but, you know. And, and, and, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you look out for your friends. Of course. Bart and Avery.

And actually, it was very important to bring on the friends because you had to fly to England to do the show. You couldn't just drive to Television City. So people had to make a big trip. So they called in a lot of friends. So Avery was one of those friends they called in. Right. Jack Burns, you know, and people think of him as Burns and Schreiber. Or they think of him as taking over for Don Knotts on The Andy Griffith Show.

But he had a writing career. He was the head writer of Fridays, which people forget. He was in charge of the whole production on Fridays. And still around. Oh! Jack Burns. He keeps to himself a lot. Well, Kelly Carlin stays in touch with him

because they used to be Burns and Carlin. Oh my God, that's right! A million years ago. And we asked Kelly when we had her on the show, and she says he's really a recluse. He won't do anything. Well, he always likes to, you know, he didn't like to engage in a lot of with a lot of people because Jerry Jewell, who became head writer of The Muppet Show the following year, told me a story that Jack Burns had gone to dinner once and he's waiting for his table at dinner and someone comes up to him and says, are you Jack Burns? And he didn't feel like engaging with the fan. So he said, no, I'm not. I get that a lot. I'm not Jack Burns, but thank you. So later on, he gets to the table and he finds himself seated next to that person. And that person spends the entire dinner talking about how much he can't stand Jack Burns.

Oh, my God. And he's sitting there. He can't do anything because he said, I'm not Jack Burns. Perfect. So he just had to sit and endure an entire dinner of hearing about how awful he was. Yeah. Funny guy. I remember Burns and Schreiber because they would go on and do the same act on every show.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Where they'd sit in two chairs. They'd do the taxi. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Schreiber would be like the sad sack cab driver, and he'd be in the loud mouth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to show you how Jim took care of his own people, Jim worked with Burns and Schreiber in the 60s on a summer replacement show that Ed Sullivan's company produced.

Good Lord. Rolf was the host, and Burns and Schreiber were the act. So he kept up with them and. Used the same people. And I remember because they would do this a lot where they would get an act that had their one act and try to stretch it out. Yeah. So they would start doing, they'd do these new sketches that it was like the cab driver during the Civil War time.

The cab driver in the future. The cab driver in prehistoric days. You know what's funny? You think of that as so old school comedy. Comedy teams. It's just not, it just doesn't exist. Remember Patchett and Tarsus? You remember them? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Tom Patchett and Jay Tarsus. Jay Tarsus went on to create Buffalo Bill for Dabney Coleman and a lot of good television. I wonder who were the last of the comedy team. I think it's you guys. That's just sad. We had Tom Bergeron

in here before and he was talking about Shields and Yarnell. Do they qualify even as a comedy team? Well, they're a team. Yeah. No, they did the Muppet Show, I think. Comedy teams. If you turned on TV in the 60s, you had your run of comedy duos, and it just doesn't exist anymore.

No, no, it doesn't. Someone said you and Gilbert are the Mac and Jamie. Do you remember them? Yep. Of the millennial. Oh, my God. Back to the Muppets. Back to the Muppets.

So, yeah, so they're out in London. They're doing this thing. They're schlepping guest stars in every week, and they had the time of their lives. They loved doing it. This list you gave me of guest stars from the first season of The Muppet Show, all of these people flew to London to do the show. They were being put up first class. Jesus, what a list. It was a high-class operation.

And they had to just do it. The work wasn't that hard. You did a day of script read-through, a day of music recording, and the guest stars were only in the studio for one day to shoot. And then the Muppets stayed around to do another two days the rest of the episode. But they would always shoot out the guest star after one day. So it's not a lot of work. But to have to fly overseas just for a –

Well, that was the 70s. Vincent Price, I remember. He was episode 19. Vincent Price I remember he was episode 19 Vincent Price did you watch the Muppet Show? oh yeah in first run what was wonderful about the show

is that they would always try and get people to do what they weren't known for so Vincent Price actually sings You've Got a Friend I've seen that clip we will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. Hey, Ontario, got any plans? How about a trip to the casino right here, right now? With DraftKings Casino, all your favorite games are in the palm of your hand. Play the classics like blackjack, roulette, slots, and baccarat.

Or take a spin on exclusive games you won't find anywhere else. Experience the excitement of the casino floor right on your phone. Download the app and play whatever, wherever, and whenever. Your options for fun are endless. On DraftKings Casino, your way is the only way to play. Join the fun on your time, in your space, and within your means. The best part is it's safe, secure, and reliable. So deposits and withdrawals happen when you're ready.

Go all in on fun with DraftKings Casino. Head to the App Store to download. Explore a full suite of games and find your favorites today. DraftKings Casino. The crown is yours. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario. 1-866-531-2600.

19 and over and physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See casino.draftkings.com for details. Please play responsibly. And now back to the show. I flew to England recently. I did that Matt LeBlanc show. Oh, episodes.

Oh, I didn't know. You didn't tell me you went all the way overseas to do that. Well, I don't like talking. I know that. How was it? They put you up first class? Yeah. That was, all of that's great.

It's a long flight. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And the, you know, the jet lag. Yeah. I mean, like in the middle of the day, you don't, I remember talking to someone in the middle of the day and say, you know how two days ago you were telling me? And he goes, it wasn't two days ago. It was this morning. So I was lost over there.

But you would have gone over for the Muppet show for- Oh, absolutely. He would have been great. They would have let him sing. I'm sure. So everybody loved Roy Rogers and Edgar Berg. They loved Roy Rogers, Edgar Berg. Roy Rogers, someone told me a story that Roy would come down and he would talk to them and he said, you know what I love to do? You know, at that time he was like living over the Roy Rogers Museum. And Roy would tell him, you know, every morning I get to go down to the museum and play Roy Rogers.

Wow. It's like I get to be Roy Rogers. That's fun. to the museum and play Roy Rogers. Wow. It's like, I get to be Roy Rogers. That's fun. And Edgar Bergen, they told me when he, they did their script read-through, and then they sat around and took pictures.

They just set up a little semicircle, and Edgar did his act for the whole crew. That's very cool. Just for fun. That's very cool. Now, see, and this is something, because Edgar Bergen, everybody loved Edgar Bergen, and he's a legend. Yep. But is he the worst ventriloquist who ever lived? Well, let's just say there's a reason that his greatest success was on radio.

Yes. It was so insane, a ventriloquist on radio. Who didn't translate to television. No. Right. No. Who didn't translate to television. No.

Right. No. And it's like when you'd see it and you'd be watching him and his mouth would be moving all over the place. But Jim became very close to him and both Candace. Candace had done The Muppet Show too. And when Edgar died, they asked Jim to deliver the eulogy. And Jim's office for many years was this silver picture frame that the Bergen family gave him. It said, Jim, keep the magic alive,

with a picture of Edgar in it with Kermit, I think. You ever seen that creepy photo of the newborn Candace Bergen, and she's in a bassinet, and they've got the puppet looking in like it's her brother, and somebody wrapped the puppet's fingers around the it's disturbing like what's even creepier if you look at some of edgar's early charlie mccarthy yeah yeah if you look at some of edgar bergen's earlier movies in some of the scenes they would put a little person in a charlie mccarthy costume walking around in the film and that that's a that's a little oh, I think they one time did that with both of them,

both Edgar and Mortimer Snurd. Oh, yeah. On the Jack Benny show. Yeah, I remember that. You don't see comedy teams anymore? You don't see ventriloquists anymore. No, not so much. Paul Winchell has come and gone.

And you don't see mimics anymore. No, you don't see mimics. We've had a lot on this show. We had John Beiner. We had Marilyn Michaels. We had Rich Little. We had Rich Little and Will Jordan. But it's also a dying art.

I mean, this show is like, you know, it's a time capsule. Well, what's fun is if you look at the Muppet Show list, it's a lot of all different kinds. Yeah, I love this list. You had, they would get variety people like Senior Wences did the Muppet Show. Oh, yeah. It's a great list. Variety people like Senior Wences did the Muppet Show. Oh, yeah. That's a great list.

One of my favorite ones was Wally Bogue, who did the Golden Horseshoe Review at Disneyland for years and years. And he basically did that same show over and over, and he did part of that in the Muppet Show. Wally Bogue, I don't know. Do you know that name, Gil? No. Listen to some of these people. Don Knotts, Zero Mostel, Uncle Miltie, Rich Little, Edgar Berg and Steve Martin, George Burns. Estelle, Uncle Miltie, Rich Little, Edgar Berg and Steve Martin, George Burns.

Now, Craig tells us, he has a little note here, that most of the guest stars were loved by the team, but not everyone. And he says, see if you can guess from the attached list who was not pleasant. So I'm going to stereotype the French, and I'm going to say that it was Charles Aznavour. No, I will say it's someone that's been mentioned on this show. Wait, I'm going to say, because his own son insulted him, that's Zero Mostel. You know, he may have not been, but that's not the story I hear. Okay, wait a minute now. Let's see if we can guess. Here, Gil, take a guess from this list.

Pearl Bailey, Roy Clark chris christopherson james coco uh danny k was it danny k oh oh my god you know i don't like to tell tales out of out of school but yes i there how did i not guess that first that was one person that i heard not so great things about i've heard nothing but bad things about him. George Carlin hated him. Yeah. Tony Curtis hated him. I don't think Bernie Coppell liked him very much.

We had him on. Oh, everybody hated Danny King. And Jamie Farr didn't care for him. Well, he likes everybody. And I will say that the people who work on the Muppets generally like everybody, too.

So for them to say things that are less than positive. You realize I was fired by The Muppets, Craig. Well, I was, too. So it's a lot of that. You're in good company. It just took longer for me. Are we near the clip yet? Should we set up the clip?

I'm going to set up the clip. We have a very rare clip that comes to us from the courtesy of Joe Bailey, who was one of the writers of the Muppet show. And he has a book that's out, Memoirs of a Muppet Writer. And he's a swell guy. And what I love about this clip is that Jim always wanted people to do things they weren't known for. So Phyllis Diller played the saxophone and Hal Linden played the clarinet, I think. C3PO tap danced on the Muppet Show. I mean, so he wanted people to do that. But Milton Berle is a guy who not only wanted to do the same type of thing he always wanted to do,

he wanted to do it exactly the same. So he would come in. They were doing a heckling routine with Statler and Waldorf, the two old guys in the balcony. And Milton knew exactly the jokes he wanted. He brought like a stack of jokes that he'd been using since the beginning of time and essentially dictated it to the writers. And so what you're going to hear is the writer's room with Milton Berle telling everybody what jokes that he thought would be good in this routine. Okay.

This is the heckling. Here's Uncle Miltie. I'll say, S.O.W. Start again, Burl. If you don't stop heckling me, I'll have the usher take you out. Joe, I don't go out with ushers. I've got a good mind of punching the nose.

Waldorf, please, not while I'm holding it. Do you have anything else to say about me? Only one thing. Let you stand too close to the camera. Pearl, how far would you like me to be? That's funny. Waldorf, you got a car? Yes.

I like that. That's a nice line. If you keep cutting me off, how does anybody know what I'm going to sing by watching Bob Hope the week before? That's a great joke. Now, would you please be quiet? Did you come in here to be entertained or not that's right what's right i came here to be entertained and i'm not that's

the first show kind of that should be up early oh i'd like to see you get up here and be funny he says you first i dare you wise guy why don't you come down here on the stage and entertain? Yes, I should. Can you sing? No. Can you dance? No. Can you get laughs? No. And what can you do?

Just what you're doing. Well, you've got a million jokes here. Now, this is a very big joke. I don't know if you can get it. All right, gentlemen. I'll bet either one of you can't name one man who's funnier than me. There's Bob Hope, George Burns, Rhett Skelton. I say, see, I told you you couldn't name one man who's funnier than me there's bob hope george burns red skelton i say see i told you couldn't name one you stay up there and try to be funny all right i know a good joke watch then we can't do this whoa jesus we only got a half hour show i know this has got to be

230 240 that's right that's right that's That's exactly it. I know, I know. Just this one and then frig it because I've got to be on a set in June. Yeah, right. From your information, I did very well on all the three mediums. Stop exaggerating. I'm only human. There you go exaggerating. That's a little bit of a... Yeah, that voice you heard at the end was Jerry Jewell telling we only have a half hour.

Who was the poor guy that had to sit there going, that's funny? That was probably all of the writers. And this is just a snippet. Thank you, Frank. We have like 20 minutes of that tape and that's only part of the meeting. But it was basically... Yeah, we went out on a clip last time. That's so funny because that's one of those stories that I tell on this show.

But to actually hear it is amazing. What, that he's just going to. Yeah. When an actual story like that comes to life. I know, I know. It's weird the way he's just kind of dictating exactly what he's going to do word for word. And you can hear the typewriter in the background trying to take it down. And you want to laugh at him, but at the same time, part of you is thinking, this guy's an old pro.

He knows what he's doing. And there's another section. Maybe they should listen to him. Yeah, well, they do. A lot of that's word for word what they end up doing. But there is a section of the tape where he says a joke and he says, oh, no, that's brand new. Like that, you know, he wasn't comfortable with it because he didn't he never tested it before. Wow.

That's a that's a fun little thing to have. I heard a story that with Abbott and Costello on their TV show, they would like fight doing a bit that was written for them. And the way to get them to do it was they'd say, oh, I was at a vaudeville house the other day. I saw this comic do it. I got it down word for word. He got big laughs. And then Abner Costello would do it. This is some guest list.

Some of these people I don't recognize. I guess they're European stars. Tony Randall, Mac Davis, Al Linden. Of course, I'm looking for the people that did this show. Rich Little, Senior Wenceskill, Moomin Shantz. Moomin Shantz. Oh, my God. Loretta Swit, Diane Cannon, Victor Borga.

Shields and Yarnell we just talked about with Tom. Doug Henning. Doug Henning. The late Doug Henning. Doug Henning. The late Doug Henning. So they did 120 shows, five years, and then Jim decided to pull the plug. How come? He was always the guy who wanted to do the next thing. So he was starting to do work on these fantasy films, Dark Crystal.

Oh, that's right. Of course. They started doing the feature films where they took the Muppets out into the real world. Fraggle Rock. Fraggle Rock was following this. So he was a guy – they could have kept going for another few years. But he was a guy who always wanted to do the next thing. So that's –

And then there were attempts to revive the Muppet Show because it was so loved. They did a few times. They tried with the Jim Henson Hour. How long did the Jim Henson Hour last? Half a season. Okay. And were they the same – I'm trying to remember them. Were they the same formats?

Because I remember the Muppet show proper that everybody remembers. Right. What they did with the – they always tried to update it. So on the Jim Henson Hour, instead of a sort of music hall type of setting, the Jim Henson Hour had what they called Muppet television, which was like this futuristic control room where Kermit could pull up anything on a screen. So they always go in and out of screens. So Kermit was still the host, but Frank Oz wasn't working on all the shows. Right. So that suffered. When he was developing a feature career.

Yeah, yeah. Do Frank Oz. By then he had started directing features. So he would come every once in a while and they would do a special or, you know, that he would do every, you know, third or fourth episode, but without that team of Jim and Frank working together. You did Muppets Tonight. Oh, yes. Muppets Tonight. Yeah. And that was interesting because that was done just a year or two after Jim died. So they didn't feel comfortable with putting Kermit at the center of the show. So they had the show hosted by Clifford, who was one of the newer characters, and he was sort of the new hip character. But they had to sort of make him

less hip to front the show. See, he was sort of the hip musician in the band who didn't have eyes because he had sunglasses covering his eyes. So first thing they do is give him eyes and suddenly he's less cool and less mysterious. And he starts talking a lot because he has to host the show. And one of the things that made Clifford cool was that he would just talk every now and then and have these really cool little zingers and then, you and then take his place in the band. So it was interesting, and I think one of the problems is that they were on ABC. So it wasn't like when they were syndicated on The Muppet Show, unlike Jim Henson, which was on NBC and Muppets Tonight on ABC,

they had 24 episodes they knew they were going to be doing. So they could experiment and they could have fun. And it wasn't until like the second season of The Muppet Show where it really hit its stride. Did you enjoy doing it, Gil? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was, I was on the Win a Date with Kermit. We played it on the last episode. Yeah. And it was a lot of fun. There was a lot of fun stuff in that show but you know you just there's so much pressure on network television it's even gotten you know more like that now i remember kermit has to go to the address of the winner and you see on the bell it says gottfried and this cute girl answers the bell and he he goes, oh, well, hello, Mrs. Gottfried.

And she goes, oh, you're here to see my friend Gilbert Gottfried. And then you're having the romantic dinner. Yes. And then the last version was The Muppets. That was just a couple of years ago. The recent one. Bill Prady, who I worked with for years. Funny guy, Bill Prady.

Very funny guy. And, you know, they just made a little bit of a misstep. That was sort of the behind-the-scenes. It was going to be almost like a Larry Sanders show. Exactly. Look at the making of a Muppet show. But they gave the Muppets all of these real problems. And, you know, I don't think people want to watch the Muppets deal with real problems.

They want to watch it to sort of, you know. And yet they're durable. They're durable characters. And they're still going to do stuff. to sort of, you know. And yet they're durable. They're durable characters. And they're still going to do stuff. What struck me about the one I was in,

and he's going, oh, this is good, is whenever I'd watch that, I'd go, so does this frog want to fuck this girl? Is that what Tim Huffington are pushing here? What Kermit does on his own time. This is Kermit's business. Yeah, and amphibious sex. I mean, he spends a lot of time with a pig, so anything would be.

So he figured this is the next day. Before we do the plugs, and I know you got an event coming. We do. We're opening up a new exhibit of Jim Henson's work at the Museum of the Moving Image. It opens July 22nd. Wonderful. Where you met Gilbert. Where I met Gilbert, yes.

The first time. Wow. And Gil, he's got a little game for us that you can take us out quickly. This is called Man or Muppet. And it's inspired from a song from one of the more recent movies. And I'm going to give you a name. You have to tell me if it's a real person or an obscure Muppet character. Uh-oh.

You cannot stump the great Gottfried. Well, we'll see. We'll see. Let's see what you got. Big, tiny, tall saddle. Big, tiny, tall saddle. I'm going to say that's a real person. No, that's a Muppet.

Wow. That was it. Okay. Oh, for once. So, we're that's a real person. No, that's a Muppet. Wow. Okay. Oh, for once. So we're off to a bad start. He was a disc jockey on the Johnny Cash episode of The Muppet Show. Oh, wow. So you took real characters from him.

Merwin Bogue. Merwin Bogue. I feel like this is that episode of Hollywood Squares. You fool! No relation to Wally Boak? No. I'm going to say real person. It is.

All right, y'all. That's actually Ishka Bibble's real name. Ishka Bibble. Do you know when I was a little kid, Ishka Bibble. When I was a little kid, one time I got a haircut. I must have been about three years old. And to this day, I remember some guy looking at me, a grown man goes, oh, you look like Ishka Bibble.

If any of our listeners know who Ishka Bibble is, I'll be really impressed. Look it up. The problem is I played this game with other people and actually had to take names out of it that I knew you guys impressed. Look it up. The problem is I've played this game with other people and actually had to take names out of it that I knew you guys would know. Of course. But let's see. There's Bessie Lamb. Gil? Bessie Lamb.

See, I think this is a trick because you'll hear lamb and you'll assume it's a puppet. So I'm going to say it's a real person. It is, yes. Look, you're on a roll. You're flying.

She was a singer from the early 1900s, Zuzu Fitzwaller. You know, Zazu Pitts could be a Muppet. Zuzu Pittswaller. Fitzwaller. I'm going to say a person again. No, that was a Muppet. Zuzu Pittswaller. Pittswaller. I'm going to say a person again. No, that was a Muppet. Well, that's what I meant. I said I was going to say.

A Hungarian water juggler from the Muppets. I was going to say it was a person, but then I stopped myself and said it was indeed a Muppet. Okay, one more. Go on with a bang. Pick your best one. Imogen Poots. Imogen Poots. Oh, I've got this one.

Imogen Poots is a real person. She's an actress. I know. I think we had her on The View. Well, she'll have to come on this show. Imogen Poots. That's a great name. Yeah, it just sounded like a Mupp show. Imagine Boots. That's a great name. Yeah, it just sounded like a Muppet.

Yeah. Fantastic. That was fun. So give us the plug again and plug your book too. Muppets Character Encyclopedia. By Craig Shemin. By Craig Shemin. Available wherever books are sold.

I'll also mention Joe Bailey's book, Memoirs of a Muppet Writer. Joe, thank you for the clip. And also I want to mention if you want to know more about Jim, you can check out Jim Henson's biography by Brian J. Jones or Imagination Illustrated, the Jim Henson Journal by Karen Falk or a really good kid's biography, I Am Jim Henson by Brad Meltzer, illustrated by Chris Eliopoulos. They're all nice people. He brought all his plugs. This is a professional guest. And the exhibit opens July 22nd at the Museum of the Moving Image. Gilbert will come.

He'll take the kids. It's permanent, and there's a touring version of it in Seattle right now. Wonderful. Now, before you go, I heard that Jim Henson didn't follow medical training. I heard Imogen Poots was a Christian. You know, that's right. You're funny. Thank you, Craig. Thank you. This was a Christian. You know, that's right. You're funny. Thank you, Craig.

Thank you. This was a lot of fun. If you come back sometime, we'll talk Muppet movies. We'll do Muppet movies. We can do game shows. We can do all sorts of stuff. Man, there's no end. We've been talking to Craig Sherman.

Sherman. Sherman. We're talking to Craig Sherman. I'm looking at Frank Verderosa and he's just sitting there like this like you've completely deadened his senses. Because he doesn't have headphones on Also I know I'll be

dialing that down when I mix it I'm used to it. That's because he's accidentally erasing all these shows as he records them That's later I do that Frank Verderosa rescues these shows.

Thank you, Mr. Shemin. It was great to be here. Give our love to Stephanie. I sure will. And this has been Gilbert and Frank's amazing Colossal Obsessions Colossal Obsessions Colossal Obsessions