Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Mini-Episode #114: Remembering Johnny Carson, Part 2 with Mark Malkoff

Episode Date: June 1, 2017

This week: Chevy Chase vs. Gallagher! The Legendary Peter Lasally! Johnny "tests" Uri Geller! And the King of Late Night's final curtain! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

That's the sound of unaged whiskey transforming into Jack Daniel's Tennessee whiskey in Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around 1860, Nearest Green taught Jack Daniel how to filter whiskey through charcoal for a smoother taste, one drop at a time. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. Hi, I'm Gilbert Gottfried. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And we're once again recording at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Ferdarosa. And this is Gilbert and Frank's Amazing Colossal Obsessions.

Colossal obsessions. It is. And we were having so much fun with our guest, Mark Malkoff, last week, talking about the 25th anniversary of Johnny Carson leaving the airwaves. Can you believe? I can't believe it. 25 years, May 22, 1992. I was in Hershey, Pennsylvania on that Friday night watching it.

I remember it very vividly. Were you watching it, Gil? Oh, yeah. When Johnny went off the air? Yeah, with Bette Midler. No, that was the penultimate. That was the next to last. And that is an interesting point that you bring that up because Johnny and Peter LaSalle wanted that episode to be the last one.

For the people listening, I don't know if you know this or not, but they do a post-mortem after most late-night shows where you'll have the host, the producers, and the director, and they kind of talk about the show. If there's anything that needs to be edited in post, which are – They do it in daytime, too. Yes. I didn't know that. So they did the – after the Bette Midler, Robin Williams, which was just incredible television. television. I mean, just spontaneously, you know, Bette Midler and Johnny singing

Here's That Rainy Day together a cappella with, I think Ed Shaughnessy told Bette in the dressing room that was Johnny's favorite song, and it was just this amazing Mark Shaman doing One for My Baby, and then Bette Midler apparently backstage just afterwards puts the

layover Johnny's head and runs off sobbing backstage. And at the postmortem, Peter and Johnny said this should be our last episode. We don't want to do another episode. They couldn't top it. They couldn't. I mean the last episode had no guests. Of course, you know, NBC probably wanted to make this primetime gigantic thing.

Of course. Johnny, the classy man he wanted, just wanted to go out very quietly. take thing of course johnny the classy man he wanted just wanted to go out very quietly and uh it was the guest montage where they had i think 55 people set to memories of you with doc and the orchestra underneath and then um uh there was the first time ever that they showed behind the scenes and i asked jeff satsig of carson entertainment how did johnny take that with cameras following him around that that had never happened i said was that hard for johnny said oh absolutely it took him a long time to kind of get get used to that dave letterman did the similar thing on the last episode where they finally showed after 30 years

kind of how they put the show together but i like the final episode was classy it was yeah yeah you wanted what the audience really wanted was johnny oh absolutely need guests they just wanted that one-on-one relationship. They wanted to say goodbye. It's true. And then it was very strange for the staff because it was the first time that the staff had been in the audience, most of them. And you had David Steinberg was in the audience. Bill Zamey was in the audience.

And you had all these Johnny's two sons and his wife, Alex. But to have his writers and the Tonight Show staff in front of him in those 400 plus seats in Burbank and for him to say goodbye to America. And then he went straight to the elephant doors where a limousine waited to pick him up, him and his wife Alex up. And then the limousine went not too far to the helicopter pad. And then the helicopter whisked them away to Malibu where they had a rap party with all and Les Brown Orchestra and it was uh the first time obviously that most people had ever been to Johnny's estate in Malibu and that's how everything ended imagine psychologically what was going through his head when he just rapped it for the last time yeah I mean the the sense it 25 years no it was

30 it was 29 uh and, six or seven months. And apparently, I mean, Rick Ludwin, who was vice president of late, and I told me he went to, he thought that somebody from NBC should say thank you and went down to Johnny's basement office. And Johnny, apparently that day was just jotting down what he was going to say on a legal pad. Fritz Coleman told me that he wanted on the last day just to say thank you for everything that you mean to me and you know he he was just i think carson said it was strange but it was just you know another day and i think that uh he just wanted to go on top of course i mean he those yeah the thing that really bothered him was he did not want to become bob hope and those saturday night live sketches they really did before we turn the mics on, the Carcinio sketches bothered?

That one didn't bother him. Robert Smigel penned these sketches. And, you know, NBC didn't really want SNL to do it. But Lorne Michaels, to his credit, gives his writers creative freedom. And I guess Robert Smigel perceived Johnny as being maybe out of touch and would write these sketches. And I actually just watched this episode of Dana Carvey on with Johnny. And it was one of the rare moments where Carvey did his Johnny impersonation for Johnny. And it was just, you could tell Johnny, he was trying to be a good sport about it, but

it was hard to watch. And apparently Dana Carvey said that Jay Leno told him right before he announced his retirement that Johnny was in the halls of Burbank and said, if they're going to make fun of me, I'm out of here. And that was, I think, right before the Carnegie Hall where he announced his retirement. But he just did not want to be perceived as Bob Hope. And those sketches really – As hanging on too long. Yeah, and the sketches bothered him. That one, the Carcinio one, apparently –

He always had a contentious relationship with Saturday Night Live. It was. Ever since they knocked the Saturday reruns off the air. Yeah, the Chevy Chase New York Magazine piece saying that he would be maybe the rain. And he definitely had a huge problem with SNL. And I think that last year, when he started having problems with the show, the booking stopped for Dana Carvey. I don't think Victoria Jackson did the show after that. And he, I mean, his final week, he took a shot at Saturday Night Live and the monologue.

They did a cold open. I think Woody Harrelson, Vanessa Williams season finale of 90 would have been 92. And they did a cold open that Smigel wrote. And it was, you know, Ed, Phil Hartman being drunk for the finale. And Johnny just, he just really got to him. And he took a pot shot. and it was Phil Hartman being drunk for the finale. And Johnny, he just really got to him and he took a pot shot. I said, the monologue was this was the final week or two of the show, he said, an NBC program and next year they're actually going to make a comedy version of Saturday Night Live.

Wow. That was his joke. And then he said something about striking back or something, you know. Are you old enough to remember that before SNL debuted in 75 that that slot was a Carson rerun on Saturday night? You know, I know that that's why Ebersole and Lorne Michaels, that's why Johnny wanted something to replace it. But that's amazing to think about. Yeah. I mean, Johnny just thought it was too much of The Tonight Show,

and that's what, yeah. It was one of the few nights I got to watch Johnny Carson because I didn't have to get up and go to school. Yes. It's like Carson, he made a few like, you know, there was the famous ad lib about Chevy Chase saying he couldn't ad lib or fart. That was the cast.

Johnny watched Good Nights, and they had like a minute or two to kill. But he said that about the cast, but he definitely was ticked about that Chevy Chase New York Magazine story, which is not Chevy's fault, and they became friendly with the card game years later. Yeah. But, I mean, oh, my gosh. There's this episode. It's really hard to watch with Gallagher and Chevy Chase and Chevy on cars.

You sure it's not Gallagher 2? And Chevy takes a shot at Gallagher and Chevy Chase and Chevy on Carson. You sure it's not Gallagher 2? And Chevy takes a shot at Gallagher. Gallagher tells a joke on panel and it doesn't go well and Chevy gets a dig in and then the rest of the episode is throughout the episode is Gallagher taking shots at Chevy

and the audience really loving this and Johnny, it just cuts to Johnny and he's loving this. I think I definitely think with some of the SNLers, he would have them on occasionally, but he was just loving Chevy getting beaten up verbally by Gallagher. Tell us about putting the show together. Tell us about booking the show. And because for people that aren't familiar with the podcast – and again, we'll plug it because it's great, the Carson podcast. You have a lot of behind-the-scenes people, too.

You've mentioned Rick Ludwin. You've mentioned some of the other people. We talked about Bob Shane. But you've had other people on the show. Peter LaSalle, who the New York Times calls, I think, the host whisperer, was Arthur Godfrey's producer. Right, and became Dave's go-to guy. Yeah, he was Dave's EP. He was Tom Snyder's EP.

He was Johnny's EP. Peter was Tom Snyder's EP. He was Johnny's EP. Peter was somebody I really wanted on. I got a message to him within, I think, like a half hour. I got a call from CBS Television City, and his charming assistant Chris had Peter's hold for Peter. And Peter, I basically said, I know you don't do interviews almost ever. And I know you hate them,

but this would, you do not know how much this would mean to me. And he, the reason he said that he would do it is because of my email. And he's like, it's, it was genuine. I said,

I know it was. And I went to television city, a CBS where they did Jack Benny. And I mean, they do right now they do, um, what price is right. And Bill Maher are still there,

but I mean, they'd all in the family. I mean, it's so historic. And I went to Peter's office, and it was amazing talking to him. I mean, he—I don't know if you guys know his background. Holocaust survivor. He knew Anne Frank. I don't know.

I don't know. That's really fascinating. He's a remarkable man. He was an NBC page, and then he worked for Godfrey. Your favorite, Gil. Yes. Arthur Godfrey was a major anti-Semite. That is what – I just read that.

Shelly Schultz is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I think, as a manager, and he worked on The Tonight Show. He was the one that booked Cosby and Joan Rivers, and he apparently – I just saw an interview with him, I think as a manager, and he worked on the Tonight Show. He was the one that booked Cosby and Joan Rivers. And he apparently, I just saw an interview with him and he said the same thing that you just said. And I have no idea if that's true or not. I know that Peter had a good experience, but at the same time, Peter told me the same thing about Johnny is that Peter was given the advice of Arthur invites you to go to his farmhouse on the weekend or wherever his retreat is, say no. Just say no. And he always would because if they get to spend time with you, they might get to not like you. And apparently Bob Shanks said the same thing to Cavett about Jack Parr.

Don't go away with them. So keep that professional distance from these guys. Yes, apparently so. I tried to do that with Gilbert. But, you know, getting to Godfrey... It hasn't worked. Peter LaSalle was telling me, and I've done research, Godfrey was over with the American public more than Oprah. I mean, I don't

think people can imagine that. Oh, yeah. Oh, he was beloved. I mean, is there anybody on television now, any figure that has that pull? There was one thing, and I remember I took sides with the other guy in this because I thought he was a performer. I know who you're going to say.

Okay. Julia LaRosa. That's not who you're going to say? I thought that's who you were going to say. This was an incident when Uri Geller. Oh, that's who we're talking about. On the Tonight Show. He was like, you know, read minds and bake spoons.

And he was sabotaged by Johnny Carson. I think, in my opinion, you know, I haven't talked to Uri Geller. I'd like to. I talked to James Randi, the amazing Randi who went on with Johnny a lot, was friends with Randi. The Johnny Carson Foundation, I think, still contributes financially to support Randi, who is a skeptic. He basically told Johnny, he took him through the entire appearance. He said, do not let them use their own spoons. Don't let them use their own equipment. Have somebody watching all the

equipment the entire time. Do not let them use any of their own equipment. And Uri Geller on television just couldn't perform. And I know Uri Geller says in his defense, he says that, you know, you had this person that just that didn believe. There's a lot of negativity in the room. I'm paraphrasing, but he basically said that you can't always pull that off. But it was a very uncomfortable – I think they did two segments. Why would Johnny sabotage another magician? He was a magician himself. I don't think he thought he was a magician.

Uri Geller really claimed that he could bend spoons. Oh, I see. He could do all these things. So Johnny was trying to bunk. I think Johnny didn't believe it. I mean, Johnny was upset. Johnny in retirement would watch Larry King and would love to Sylvia Brown, the psychic, because he's like, I can't believe people believe this. He was like Robert Tilton.

He was like Robert Tilton. He was – Carson really, really was – shared Randy's belief on that stuff, on the psychics. So, yeah, the Yuri Geller thing was – I know that that was a disastrous appearance. But, I mean, I think it couldn't have helped that I think – Carson was very polite, but you could tell the tone that he – there was definitely – it was not – maybe a lack of warmth, I think. You read stories about him turning on people sometimes. Oh, yeah. We're talking not only the decor of a story, which may be justified because he was in grief and who knows if that was long in coming. But Pete Barbeauty getting blacklisted from the show. Dick Shawn got blacklisted as well.

But then they had him back. They brought Dick Sean back a year or two before he passed. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast after this. And now back to the show. And I heard also Charlie Callis. Charlie Callis got more negative mail than any I just sat down recently with so back

on the sixth floor of NBC here in New York on the sixth floor of what then was the RCA building they would have these women they were only young women called correspondents and the correspondents would answer the phones and they would answer Johnny's mail and they would have to take the mail home because there was so much mail and apparently what would phones and they would answer Johnny's mail.

And they would have to take the mail home because there was so much mail. And apparently what would happen is they would have to keep a log of the complaints that would come in. And Charlie Callis and Woody Allen apparently were the two people when Woody would guest host and Charlie Callis would come on that the phones would ring off the hook with complaints. I don't understand that at all. I don't know. It's strange. I mean, Charlie – well, Woody Allen, of course,

great. And Charlie Callis always made me laugh. Yeah, I don't really know. I mean, the person I talked to told me,

you know, the people that watched the show were middle America and anything that was not middle America, maybe Woody Allen, just that, that would,

that section of people that just didn't want that, I guess. A little too Semitic for the Tonight Show audience? Is that what's being suggested? Woody guest hosting the Tonight Show was wonderful. We were talking beforehand about some of the people that guest hosted the show that I don't think most people know. Like Peter Bogdanovich guest hosted twice. Peter Bogdanovich came out and did a monologue.

He did. Which is rather stunning. What is the true story to the Joan Rivers? It's very complicated. I want to preface this. If Joan Rivers was here, I think her on television and it seemed like so many interviews would just give her version of what happened. And she would say it over and over again until it got in the public consciousness. And the version of the Carson camp, Johnny was, he never, I don't

want to say he was too classy because Joan was very classy. I'd met her. I worked with her a little bit. She was wonderful. Johnny just, you know, his quote was, uh, I was never upset, I just would have handled it differently, that's all. But we both all know he was upset. So here's the deal. They went to dinner, it was several, I think three weeks beforehand,

and they were still negotiating with Joan to guest host the show, and she had signed her contract with Fox. They had no idea that she had signed the contract. And Rivers called Carson. Brandon Tartikoff had gotten to Carson right beforehand and said, and I guess Joan Rivers called DeCordova, and DeCordova said, you're kidding me. I've been told by somebody with good knowledge that Johnny broke down and cried when he found out that Joan was

going to Fox. And that itself would have been fine. Everybody said if Joan would have sat down with him, that I had this opportunity, that he would have been the first one. But the way that she, he perceived it to be that she

did this behind his back, just i've been told um that he cried that he was really i mean he already had issues sometimes i think with with with um his mom and sometimes well he has it's fair to say and if you watch that american masters uh doc he he had some issues with women i'm not saying necessarily it played out here with Joan, but he had some issues. He had healthy, very healthy relationships, though, with people, with women. Oh, I'm not suggesting it. I'm not suggesting it. But he definitely, I think the trust thing with him, and he felt betrayed.

And the thing that was very difficult that, and again, I think if Joan Rivers was here, she would deny it. And I have no idea what happened. I really am Switzerland. I have no idea. I've talked to several people on staff that told me that Joan Rivers tried to take them to go. And Peter LaSalle went on record. And one other person went on record with me. And one other person off when I wasn't recording that Joan tried to take Johnny's staff.

I mean, it's one thing to compete, but to try to take the guy who made you staff. Of course. I mean, it's one thing to compete, but to try to take the guy who made you staff, that was one thing that that was definitely a thing that that bothered him. And just the negotiations that they were still negotiating. I mean, Joan Rivers said that there was a list of 10 people and she wasn't on the list. I've talked to everybody. There was no list, according to anyone, that ever existed. And if there was, how would she find out about it of 10 successors? I mean, nobody at NBC will validate this list.

Nobody at The Tonight Show of 10 successors. There would never be a list of 10 successors, in my opinion. Maybe five, maybe three. But I don't know. I mean, apparently Joan saw Johnny at least once in public. She sent him condolence when his son died. I think she reached out to him when Edgar took his life, which was tragic, her husband. And I know she saw him in public at least once, I think at a restaurant, and tried to go up to him.

And Johnny just wouldn't. Once, and I've talked to, Johnny's first producer, Perry Cross, said once he turned on you, that was it. And I've talked to Johnny's first producer, Perry Cross, said once he turned on you, that was it. Tell us this is off, a little off that subject, but it's also about an altercation. Tell us about Paul Williams, our friend Paul Williams and George Pappard. You know. Do you know about this, Gil? This is good already.

This is something I learned from listening to the Mark Malkoff Carson podcast. I don't think it's any secret. Paul Williams has been on both of our shows that he— We love him. He had some issues in the 70s. Yeah, of course. We just talked about it. Yeah, of course. Insane, insane story.

And George Pappard, I don't think it's a secret, as well, had an alcohol issue. And he, I believe, was in—it seemed to me on the videotape that he was intoxicated, and Paul Williams backed that up. And it seemed to me on the videotape that he was intoxicated and Paul Williams backed that up. And they just started, Paul, um, took some, uh, just some, uh, insults on Paul Williams and they called him a midget. And Paul, it just got really tense. And Paul Williams said, do not call me a midget. And it was one of those things now I think they would probably edit this stuff out. But I mean, everything got in, all the so-called mistakes. And it was, I think Paul Williams said when he got sober, he had a lot of empathy for George Pappard, but that stuff would happen.

I mean, they had, back in the green room, they had alcohol back for the green room. I mean, I think a lot of shows, like Leno, they had the alcohol for the guests. All of the game shows. A lot of booze at the game shows. They used to be blasted. Yeah. I didn't know that. I heard they would wheel around carts of every alcoholic beverage you want. So these guests would be bombed out of their skulls.

Letterman at CBS, the guests would have to ask for it. They had it under lock and key. But if somebody asked for it, they could have it. But I think it depended on the show. But in the green room, there was alcohol. And do you know, so when you see the camera pan the audience, there's a kind of like a little doorway. That's called the well. And that is leads to the green room.

And the well is where a lot of comedians would watch. Like, let's say Jimmy Brogan went over for Seinfeld's first debut. He would, a lot of the comedians would congregate in the well. And right behind that would be where the green room would watch. Let's say Jimmy Brogan went over for Seinfeld's first debut. A lot of the comedians would congregate in the well and right behind that would be where the green room would be. Speaking of Brogan, I was telling you a little bit of this about the show. In the last year, I was over at

former NBC Burbank, which I think is called Burbank Studios. Yeah, tell us about it. I was with Jimmy Brogan. Whenever I'm in Los Angeles, I try to stop by and just kind of do the pilgrimage and go into Studio One. And, you know, the seats are all still in there. I think 450 seats because I've heard because of asbestos they can't pull them out. And it's still, if you look out into the audience, it still has that same exact feel of Carson.

And if you go out in the middle of the hallway between Studio 1 and 3, the Rickles thing when Johnny went across the hall, everything looks the same. CPO Sharky. The hallways look the same. And Brogan and I went to – I've done this before previously. We went down to Johnny's dressing room office, which is in the basement. Jimmy Brogan, we should tell people who he is. Oh, yeah.

Brogan was Leno's monologue writer for nine years. Nice man. He went on the show with Johnny a bunch of times, and he opens up for Jay normally on Sundays in Hermosa Beach. And so Johnny's office was locked, and I said, oh, this is a shame. Brogan said, Mark, follow me. And he leads me through this really narrow entrance with pipes. And I was like, where are we going?

And apparently what happened, he got me into Johnny's dressing room, is that they had built for Carson an escape door. What, like he's Dick Cheney? Yes. He had to have a bunker? Because fans, crazy fans, would get into NBC Burbank. And more than once, a deranged fan had gotten into the show and um and and if there was ever anybody that got into his dressing room he would have an escape door to get out yeah nuts but we got it also um i mean jerry lew Lewis used to... He guest hosted a lot, yeah.

And now when Jerry Lewis got his own talk show, it bombed. And yet when Jerry Lewis would be the guest host on Carson, they said those would do great. I'll tell you why. And this is the insight I've gotten. First of all, when he would do the Tonight Show, it was 90 minutes. His talk show variety show was, I think, two hours, a little longer. And I heard Lewis had too much going on at the time.

I mean, because Lewis could do a week, and then he would take sometimes a month or two off before he would guest host. But it was just, I heard he had too much going on with his film career and just couldn't get the proper attention to the show. But, I mean, did you hear that story about like, they would have to put like JL Tiles? We talked about it with Tom Sharpley. It's amazing. It's incredible. It's wild. Tell us, you were telling us too, before we turn the mics on, that you found some of the people that you've interviewed to be very protective of Johnny's legacy, like Joan Embry, the great Joan Embry. It's really true. I tried to get her and I couldn't. I wasn't able to get her until I think somebody emailed me. She was promoting Johnny Carson DVDs.

The San Diego Zoo. Yes. Joan Embry. Remember, Gil? Oh, yeah. I went to New Canaan, Connecticut to sit down with Jim Fowler. He was doing the animal stuff back in the 60s. Unknown Barbra Streisand asked him afterwards,

can you come to my apartment and look at my parakeet? back in the 60s. Unknown Barbra Streisand asked him afterwards, can you come to my apartment and look at my parakeet? Streisand in the 60s. From 62 to like 66 did this show a lot. You thought that was your line. I know. But she's very protective.

There are a bunch of people that have never talked publicly about Carson until they sat down with me. And I think a lot of it has been, it's been a while since Carson passed. I think the documentary happened. They're protective of... They are. carson until they sat down with me and i think a lot of it has been it's been a while since carson

passed um i think the documentary protective of of uh they are i mean all those books were always the name all negative i mean it's the one guy who i i mean this sounded like a really kind of sleazy uh and that was the best known as the bombastic bushken oh henry yeah yeah who is his lawyer and confidant that's true that was his lawyer then after caution dies he does like a tell-all book listen it went to number one on amazon i mean i noticed you didn't have him on and there's a car there's a guy that knew johnny i i i somebody gave me his book i read it read it. Somebody with knowledge said that they're pretty sure almost all of it, if not all of it's true. I just can't separate the fact that he was a lawyer talking about his client. That's just me personally.

So I haven't sat down with him. Perhaps that will change. Listen, I want to get Wayne Newton on. I've tried to get Melissa Rivers. I'm trying. Paul Rodriguez, I've reached out. I'm trying to sit down with people that did not have good experiences, and I haven't been able to sit down with them. I don't think Jamie Farr had a very good experience.

Really? Yeah, I don't think – yeah. Okay, I'd love to sit down with them. Check into that. But I tried to sit down with – Hope I'm not telling tales out of school. Oh, what were some of the bad experiences? Wayne Newton showed up to NBC Burbank, got past security, got into Johnny's office.

Oh, that's famous. If you're going to – Oh, yes. Yeah. So, I mean, that was one. Johnny's office. Oh, that's famous. If you're going to.

Oh, yeah. So, I mean, that was one. I know Paul Rodriguez said apparently he was on panel and then the next actress came out and apparently Rodriguez made a joke during a commercial. Johnny just turned on him and swore at him and that he was finished. Yeah. Obviously, Melissa Rivers with her mom. I'm trying to think who else had bad experiences. You know, there was a Jamie Farr.

I think so. Yeah. It's in Jamie's book. I'll, I'll let, I'll let Mark, uh, get, get his hands on that story himself. Yeah. I'd love to sit down with him. I have my own bombastic Bushkin story too, which I will not tell here, but I'll tell you guys, I'll tell you, I'll tell you guys something I was approached about.

The show is great. Oh, thanks. The show is great. I mean, you get inside the inner workings of that show. And you interview the staffers. You even interviewed what's the gentleman's name? Irving Davis? Irving Davis. The guy that used to pull the curtain.

20 years. When Johnny would open the curtain. His curtain man. He would open the curtain for Johnny and he would open the curtain for guests. And people like Gregory Peck, these really nervous people that didn't normally do TV. So it was challenging. And there was an incident. They show this a lot.

I mean, everyone always talked about Carson and McMahon's drinking. And there was that one show where, you know, McMahon was obviously shit-faced, and Carson just kept ragging on him on the air. Is that when they're about to introduce Joan Embry? I think Carson. I think so. It's the one time. Listen, Ed's character was that he was this big drunk, and it was just not true.

But that clip that you're talking about was one of the rare times that Ed was definitely visibly intoxicated on the show. But, I mean, listen, Johnny was a professional. He demanded perfection. He was, unless you heard from him, things were going well. If you heard from him, normally it was a problem. But, I mean, there's no way that Ed, I mean, Ed and him started out as friends. They would go out almost every single night after the show in the New York days early on.

They would go to Danny's Hideaway. They'd go to Sardi's East. They were inseparable. And like a lot of relationships, things started to change. I mean, Johnny—Ed would go down to Johnny's dressing room before the show up until the last show. And they would have dinner once a year, whereas Doc and Johnny would go on vacation together. So, I mean, they survived 29-plus years, almost 30 years together.

Oh, yeah. But their dynamic definitely changed. I watched those Carnac sketches, and I watched a bunch today prepping for you, and their timing. Oh, my gosh. Really, they're an underrated comedy team. Oh, yeah. Sis Boom Bah, the Kevin McCollum joke.

Kevin McCollum wrote that. The sound of a. Oh, yeah. Sis Boom Bah, the Kevin McCollum joke. Kevin McCollum wrote that. The sound of a sheep exploding? Yeah. Sis Boom Bah. It's amazing. They had wonderful timing. They had wonderful chemistry. Has anyone heard from Doc, by the way?

Doc is 90 years old. He's in Tennessee. I have his cell phone number. I've talked to him thrice on the phone, and he does not know what a podcast is, apparently. I'm having that problem booking this show with a couple of people who I won't mention. I'm not giving up hope, but I have to say Doc was really funny. Oh, God. When he would sit in Ed's chair when Ed wasn't there.

So was Tommy Newsome funny. Newsome was really good, too. I mean, I think that they really lucked out in terms of the personalities on that show. There was nothing like it. It was a special time. Not only a great talk show, but it was that time in show business history. It was the right show

for the right time. And you had these amazing people like Dave Letterman and Shanley guest hosting that show. I mean... And George Carlin. George Carlin was amazing.

And everybody. And I want to say Johnny was secure enough with himself as a performer to have guest hosts where as unless Jimmy Kimmel is...

had his... he had to take some time off recently, or Dave Letterman had his heart issues, it never happens. I mean, Jay Leno only gave up his seat once. To who? Katie Kurnick. Right. That was it. Brandon Tarnikoff tried to get him to do Fridays to Rosie O'Donnell, and he just wouldn't do it.

And that's Jay's prerogative. That's every host. It's their show. Mark, the show is great. The Carson Podcast. I'm going to recommend a couple of episodes I listen to. I love the Fred Silverman one. Now there's a guy we've got to get on this show.

Fred Silverman. So we're going to hit Mark up. And he was the producer of Thick of the Night. Oh my God. You guys can do an hour. And you had Pete Barbeauty. All the old Carson staples. You had Kreskin, you had Jim Fowler and Joan Embry we talked about, Ed Ames. You got a lot

of great behind-the-scenes people. David Say, remember David Say? Oh my God, yes. Yeah. It's an education and it's like this show, it's a time capsule. So where can people get it? Carsonpodcast.com on iTunes, Carson Podcast. Wherever

fine podcasts are sold. Exactly. We'll give a shout out to Alex Brazell. Oh, yes. Our pal. The guru. Gil. And this very simply was Gilbert and Frank's amazing, colossal obsessions. And 25 years ago, we said goodbye

to Johnny. So we all raise a glass. Thank you, Mark. Thank you. And so it has come to this. I am one of the lucky people in the world. I found something I always wanted to do, and I have enjoyed every single minute of it. I want to thank the gentleman who shared this stage with me for 30 years, Mr. Ed McMahon.

Mr. Doc Severinsen. You people watching, I can only tell you that it has been an honor and a privilege to come into your homes all these years and entertain you. to come into your homes all these years and entertain you. And I hope when I find something that I want to do and I think you will like and come back, that you'll be as gracious in inviting me into your home as you have been. I bid you a very heartfelt good night. Thank you.