Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Odd Couple Anniversary Show

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

GGACP celebrates the birthday of Emmy-winning actor Jack Klugman (b. April 27) by presenting this ENCORE of a 2020 tribute to ABC's "The Odd Couple." In this episode, comedian-superfan Dave Juskow, author Bob Leszczak (“The Odd Couple on Stage & Screen”) and the sons of Oscar Madison himself, Adam Klugman and David Klugman join Gilbert and Frank for a loving look back on the hit series (and GGACP favorite). Also, Tony Randall stands out, Mickey Rooney loses out, John Byner breaks up the room and Garry Marshall makes TV history. PLUS: The queen of game shows! “The New Odd Couple”! Howard Cosell fakes it! Adam plays young Oscar! And David hits the road with Randall and Klugman! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I'm going to be a little bit of a wimp. I'm going to be a little bit of a wimp. I'm going to be a little bit of a wimp. I'm going to be a little bit of a wimp. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried and 1970, one of TV's most unforgettable and most beloved situation comedies premiered on ABC.

Gary Marshall and Jerry Belson's are adaptation of Neil Simon's The Odd Couple. Listeners to the show know how much Frank and I admire the writing and performances and of course Neil Hefty's wonderful So in honor of the 50th anniversary, we've assembled a panel of experts and fellow odd couple enthusiasts for a fun look back. David Just Cow is a popular writer and comedian who's appeared on HBO's Crashing and Comedy Central's TV fun house. He hosts his own entertaining podcast called The Night Fly and he's also produced and starred in live stage recreations of classic odd couple episodes featuring comedy pals such as Sarah Silverman.

Bob Leszek is a syndicated radio personality, voice actor, pop culture expert, and the author of several books on pop music and classic television, including single-season sitcoms of the 1990s from the small screen to vinyl, dynamic duos, who did it first, great pop cover songs, and appropriately, the odd couple on stage and screen. And last but not least, Adam Klugman and Dave Klugman are the sons of legendary Emmy-winning actor Jack Klugman, and Comedienne Brett Summers, and co-editors of the terrific 2005 memoir Tony and Me, about the decades-long working relationship and friendship between their father and co-star Tony Randall. Adam even appeared in two episodes of the show,

playing, who else, young Oscar Madison. This special episode is brought to you by our friends at Mandar Cologne, Belkin Airlines, Elmo's Barnacle Glue, and Felix Unger Photography Portraits, a specialty. Welcome gentlemen. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Gilbert. Gil, you got through that one. Yeah. Well, I mean, with only like about five mistakes in this round. But who's counting? And and the Klugman boys are here and it's like looking at two Jack Klugman.

With a little Brett in there, you got to throw a little bit of it. Really? I got to first before anything else. The to me, the real hot couple, uh, Jack Clubman, back when he was a struggling actor with no money, who was he roommates with? Ah, Charles Bronson. Yeah, that, that to me, to me, that would have been a great show. Charles Bronson and Jack.

In the Odd Couple? He said they were like the odd couple. I mean, Charles Bronson was very neat, very particular, very fussy. My old man used to say that they lived, it was so cold in the apartment that he would keep jars, right? Didn't he tell you this? He would keep jars next to his bed and he would just piss cold in the apartment that he would keep jars, right, Dave, didn't he tell you this?

He would keep jars next to his bed and he would just piss right in the bed because they couldn't afford heat. That's how poor they were. And he'd wake up and Charles would be like, what's all, my dad would have like jars of urine next to him because it was too cold to get out of the bed. So Charles Bronson was the Felix Hunger?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah. That makes Charles Brunson the greatest actor of our time. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I heard Klugman say in an interview that they both owned one white shirt each. Yeah. And that was for special occasions.

They were poor. That was it. They were really poor. When I toured with my dad, because I toured as a prop guy when they did the show in the summers, I remember, you know, he used to would go to dinner. He'd take like a doggie bag in those days, and he'd put a half a sandwich in the drawer every night. And finally I said, what's up with the half a sandwich in the drawer? He looked at me and he wasn't a funny look in his eye. He said, if you've

ever really been hungry, you won't have to ask that question. Wow. And that's how hungry he was when he was living with Charles Brown. At least it wasn't a urine jar. And I heard that it was... I don't know what they were doing with that. They had jobs. Both of them had jobs to do with those shirts. Like Jack Lugman would wash them both in the bathtub and then Charles Bronson would iron them. That's right, you're right. I remember that. I totally forgot, you're right.

I remember him talking about that. That's true, you're right. I remember that. I totally forgot, you're right. I remember him talking about that. That's true, that's true. And he said Charles Bronson had muscles on his muscles and to watch him with an ironing board. Gilbert, you've done homework. Yeah. For me to do any research and know who our guests are, you should be flattered.

We are. Dave and Adam, it's in the book, it's in Tony and me, but it's worth repeating for people who don't know this. I think actually Ron Friedman, writer of seven odd couple episodes, told us this on a previous episode. But please explain how Dad kind of got into acting in part to avoid a loan shark you want to take this one so right he not only was he poor when he was an actor he grew up like poor go to bed hungry every night in South Philly

it's South Philly yeah only Jewish kid all Italian neighborhood really rough he had three thousand dollars in savings bonds that a rich uncle had given to him to do something with. And he gambled it all away. Now $3,000 back then is about $45,000 today. And not only had he gambled all that money away, he was in hock to a loan shark for another like 500, which was, you know to a loan shark for another like 500, which was, you know, seven grand or whatever it is. So he, he felt terrible about himself, right? He just couldn't, obviously you lose 50 grand and you're eight or 20 years old

or something like that. He was, it was bad. So he had to get out of town because the loan shark was called uncle Tommy, but he was suddenly wasn't so fucking avuncular anymore when he owed him money. Right? So he was literally like, look, if you don't give me the money, I'm going to break your kneecaps. Actually, I remember him literally saying,

come on, Johnny, give me a break. I've been gambling with you for years. He goes, this is your break. If you're here tomorrow, I'm going to break your leg. Oh yeah? And that's when he went home and finished the story, bro. Finished. So he thinks about, he was in the service very briefly, right?

And there was a guy in the service who had gone to Carnegie Tech, which is now Carnegie Mellon, in the drama department. And my father, well, another story about, had always secretly wanted to be an actor, but you know, you didn't tell anybody in South Philly that you wanted to be an actor, right? That'd be like saying you wanted to be a florist when you grew up, right? That's not gonna go over well.

That's not gonna do well in that neighborhood. So he didn't tell anybody. So he had this kind of secret wish that one day he would be an actor. He had to get out of town. It's Pittsburgh, he's in Philly. He figures Pittsburgh's just far enough away that he maybe can go to Carnegie out of town. It's Pittsburgh. He's in Philly. He figures Pittsburgh's just far enough away That he can that he maybe can go to Carnegie Mellon. So he leaves and he goes to drives to Pittsburgh

Parks in the Carnegie Mellon parking party tech parking lot wakes up in the morning goes to a gas station bathroom combs his hair and Goes up to the drama desk at Carnegie Tech I mean, I don't know what he was thinking, like, what they're waiting for him, but he goes up to the, he says, I want to audition for the drama department. And they say, they say, great. And they hand him, they hand him Our Town. And they say, read the stage manager and come back tomorrow and audition. And Kyle Mann has never auditioned for anything in his life. He doesn't know what an audition is. He's never spoken with anyone, right? I mean, he's never spoken publicly in front of anyone. So he gets a little motel room

and he practices, but he doesn't know what the hell he's doing. And he comes back the next day and gets up in front of the people to audition. And when he steps down there, there's like Nancy Marsha was in his class, all like wealthy. Oh yeah, from the Sopranos. Right, all like wealthy middle class, wealthy and upper class. Soon to be starlets, you know.

Yeah, soon to be starlets. Everybody is, all the men are at war, which is why they said, great, come back tomorrow. He's the first man that's walked in there, and ever, probably, but there are no men. So he gets up, he looks out at the sea of these really well-bred, classy, 18, 19-year-old young women, and he totally chokes.

And he just runs off. And he thinks, well, Jesus Christ, getting my knees broken it's got to be easier than this this is just brutal and the uh and the the the but he's not done yet because the acting teacher has to assess him he's going to interview him and she says to him she says Mr. Clugman um I uh I do not think you are an actor what does he say Dave what is it what is it I do not think you are an actor. What did he say, Dave? What is the line?

He said, I don't think you're more suited to be a truck driver than you are an actor. Yeah. Yeah. When you see my problem, I have no men. So when the war was coming to a close, we were clearly winning. When the men come home, I'm probably gonna ask you to leave.

And the old man says, am I in? Right? He doesn't care. She says, for now. And that's how he got his start. Timing. From a bookie. And then he paid the guy back slowly over time, Uncle Tommy.

Yeah, he says in the book he got a busboy job and paid Uncle Tommy back, which immediately made me think of the cookie episode where he owes the money. He takes the job as the short order cook because he owes Felix. Part-time job. Yeah, the money he lost on a horse. How many Twilight Zones did Jack Klugman... Four. Four. Wait, now let me ask you guys a question.

Who can name them? For the love of Pip. Go ahead, Bob. In praise of Pip. In praise of Pip of Pip thank you Gilbert and the other one was with Jonathan Winters the pool the one with the horn oh yeah the coronet the name of that one the trumpet yeah the truck and what was the no death Ship is the one he didn't like. Death Ship, that's the one nobody ever remembers. And what's the trumpet title, Frank?

Oh, I've got it written down somewhere. Shit, I should know this. I asked the test. Adam, did he have like a relationship with Rod Serling or something that he was in for? Rod Serling loved him. Oh, he did, yeah. Loved his face.

He used to use a lot of the people he liked a lot, clearly, right? He did, and then later, later, no, earlier, he had done something that Rod Serling had written called The Velvet Alley, which, if you've never seen it, With Art Carney. It's all there is on YouTube,

and it's just, the video quality's horrible, but it's just great. It's live, it's Playhouse 90, live TV, with Art Carney, and Rod Serling, it's just great. It's live, it's Playhouse 90, live TV with Art Carney, and Rod Serling, it's just classic. Rod Serling seemed to like comedians. He wrote that episode just for Carol Burnett, right? And stuff he seemed to like. Yeah, Jesse White.

The name of that episode is Passage for Trumpet. Passage for Trumpet, thank you. And I will also add, in that Playhouse 90 episode you're talking about, a young Mickey Dolan shows up as a child actor. Wow, really? Mickey Braddock. As Mickey Dolan shows up as a child. Wow. As Mickey Braddock. Very good, Bob. Wow. Who got that? Nice. What we had on the podcast, Billy Mummy, who was the little kid in and praise a pip. That's right. Which is an episode I love. That's one. That's a great one. Dave, you got a story about that, don't you? About Dad clashing with a director.

Well, I think it was the trumpet, the passage for trumpet, which was, as I recall, the second one. I actually have a visual aid. Look, nobody else can see this. Oh, this guy brought visual aids. Oh, geez. You're a pro, Dave. For an idiot

like me. Pictures really. But anyway, this short story is, this director, because my dad was, you know, he was 32. He had done one Twilight Zone. This was his second. Rod clearly liked him, but he was no shoe, and he'd done really not much. And this director kept sort of asking him, and not so a directorial kind of way, but more in like, do it this kind of way, to play the scene.

And every time my dad did it, he would come back and say, you know, it doesn't feel true. It's just not the way I'm playing the character. And he'd say, try it again, Jack. So after seven times, my dad looked at the guy and he said, Jerry, I'm not doing it your way. And the guy looks at him and says, Jack, I don't think you understand.

I'm not asking you. And my dad, with two nickels in his pocket, said, Jerry, we have a good relationship and you're good for a job here and there, and I hope I serve you, put a little food on each other's table, but you can take this job and shove it up your ass. Because if I've got to climb into your head

and be what you need me to be this week, and then next week I do the same thing with another director, pretty soon, I'm not going to know who the fuck I am. Good for him. And so that created a hullabaloo, and of course Rod Serling came down and being the actor's actor,

he looked at Jerry and said, what the fuck are you doing? Let him do his thing. And so this guy was humiliated as a result. And for 40 years, never hired my dad again. And my dad's moral from that story is, you gotta be willing to blow the job when it comes to your integrity.

And I think it paid off for him. So, so, so serious an actor, so dedicated an actor that he was willing to lose a job that he desperately needed. And maybe you mark himself on a blacklist, you know. Another really good story on that was with, uh, that was his bottom line credo, right? So he was doing Gypsy with Ethel Merman. So he's working with Jerome Robbins, Jules Stein, Stephen Sondheim, and Ethel Merman. It was a huge start at the time, right? I mean, just massive start at the time.

And he played Herbie. He originated the part of Herbie on Broadway. And he's gonna leave her and he leans over and he kisses her before he leaves. And, you know, in rehearsal. And they say, look, Jack, don't kiss her. We don't like it, don't kiss her. He goes, okay. So he tries it.

Oh, he would always try it. He gave me a suggestion, he'd try it. He tried it. He tried it without kissing her. He goes, no, no, no, I gotta kiss her because I love her, but I can't live with her. You know that? He's gotta kiss her.

I want her to see it. He said, Jack, don't kiss her. He goes, no, no, I really. They go back and forth. And he said, and finally they do what that director did, which was, got a kisser. I want I want to see it He said Jack don't kiss because no no I really they go back and forth and he said and finally they do what that director Did which was Jack kisser like we're pulling rank and Jack said go fuck yourself, and he walked off Walked off and they tried to recast it all weekend. They called him on Monday Jack come back kisser. What's the big? That's who he was. Yeah, Bob, take that cue.

Adam gave us a cue there. Ethel Merman and Gypsy was the turning point. Yes, that's where Gary Marshall first saw him and realized what a good actor he was because he was so close to the face of Ethel Merman, who spit a lot when she sang and when she spoke, and Gary said something to the effect of, you've really got to be a good actor to take that

and then stand there and do that. And he was very impressed and of course used him just a few years later. I love that. And the funny thing about that, Adam, as you were saying the other day is, before Gary had told my dad that, my dad's sitting there thinking,

he must have really liked my odd couple performance. And meanwhile he's like, no, your ability to withstand spit is really what I admire about you. I have a question. Did your dad sing? I mean, was he a singer? I mean, it's funny when you hear him sing. I mean, when I used to listen to the album as a kid.

Yeah, there's an odd couple album. That is not singing. Bob, that's not singing. I don't know what it is, but that is not singing. I mean, isn't it amazing to originate a role in a legendary musical and not be a singer? It's quite fascinating. That's the crazy irony of it all, this kid from South Philly

who has zero shot at anything, like his big break is singing, singing on Broadway with helpful mermaid Ed, Jules Stein, Stephen Sondheim. So what Stephen Sondheim. So what Stephen Sondheim realized, and he didn't audition for Gypsy, they gave it to him based on the Velvet Alley. So they had seen him in the Velvet Alley.

How about that? And up until the Velvet Alley, he'd always played gangsters. But when he did the Velvet Alley, he was a mensch. He kind of moved his type from gangster to mensch. So now he's a mensch. So they hired him just on that. He didn't have to audition. Then he started singing.

And Stephen Sondheim said, "'No, he can't sing, but he has perfect pitch.'" How about that? So I can teach him to talk sing his way through it. And that's how they did it. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. From early morning workouts that need a boost to late night drives that need vibes, a good playlist can help you make the most After this. good song. With this card, you never miss out on getting the most points on everyday purchases. The PC Insider's World's Elite Mastercard. The card for living unlimited.

Conditions apply to all benefits. Visit pcfinancial.ca for details. Bob, since we're talking about Jack on stage and the turning point of Gypsy and Gary Marshall sees him in Gypsy and gives him the part in the series, but not a lot of people, maybe a few people, but I don't think everybody who's a fan of Jack on The Odd Couple know that he played the part on stage. Oh yes, he was not the original. Of course. It was Walter Mathau and Art Carney.

When Walter Mathau had to leave to go to do The Fortune Cookie, the movie with Jack Lemmon, Jack stepped in and there was a big pay cut there I think Walter Mathow was making like fifty eight hundred a week and Jack's was almost like four thousand dollars less a week. Yeah, and got great reviews and Did it also in the UK a few years later before the TV series? Very successfully. Yeah, with Victor Spenetti from A Hard Day at Night. Yeah, so he went from Broadway and then took it over to England. I think probably because Walter wanted too much money, right?

I'm sure that's the reason. Walter had the heart attack while making the fortune cookie. That's right. So Jack went up staying later and doing it with... Carney was gone by this point. gone. He couldn't come back. Right. He couldn't come back. And Jack was doing it on stage with Eddie Bracken.

That's right. That's right. And Victor Spenetti, I'm too young to remember that, but I remember I was in second grade in England. I went to some American school for, you know, American kids. It was nuts. But when I would, and I always behaved badly in school when I was young, but when I would behave well, every once in a while I'd win a merit badge.

You know, like they'd give them out each week. And when I did, my reward was I got to go see the show. So I saw it like so many times. And I really got to love this play. I mean, I could probably recite it by heart. But there was this one funny thing where I go one night, I'm wearing this red sweater type thing, and I'm sitting in the front row,

and I go to my dad after the first act, and I say, hey, how you doing? He goes, you can't sit in the front row, you're distracting me, I'm looking at you. Right, so I'm seven, you know how seven-year-olds think, so I get up into the balcony, there's nobody in the balcony, and every time he walks to that side of the stage,

I duck down so he can't see me. Dave, you never told me that story, man. You never told me that story. Yeah, that's great. Dave, you told me on the phone that, and I didn't know this either, I mean, I learned so much about the show and so much about Jack doing research for this episode, and I didn't know this either, I mean I learned so much about the show and so much about Jack doing research for this episode.

And I should have known this, and maybe Bob knew it, maybe Dave Juskow knew it, that Tony and Jack would take to the road in the off seasons from the series and they would take the play out. Yes. And in fact you went on tour with them. I did when I was 15.

My dad threw me as a lark job because my parents had just divorced and I didn't have a job for the summer and I always had to work in the summer. My dad said, take it with me, I'll have him do the props. And I was really good at it. I kind of turned, it was a turning point for me and I just for some reason took it seriously

without thinking about it. And I had a ball, we went to Norfolk and we're pretty girls all around, oh that whole thing that happens when you're around celebrity. But the cool thing was it was the original cast from the TV show. So I'd hang out with them and watch their process. The original cast from the TV show went on the road with them? They wanted to stay sharp. To do the play?

To stay sharp. Wow, that's great. To stay sharp. Well, because one day felt... And employed. And employ. And employ. And employ. For them more. But I think it's the whole notion of these guys were trying to bring stage to sitcom.

That's somehow what made the odd couple different, memorable. If the show wasn't successful at first, were the crowds into seeing them because of the TV show or were they just going to the theater? I just don't think there was much to do in those towns. Right. So, so. Who talks about it?

Birmingham, Alabama, Norfolk, Virginia. Yeah. Can I ask a question? I don't think they're coming to see the juke in other words. We understand. I don't think they're coming to see the jukes in other words. We understand. Now, one question I have, I've seen about 50 explanations on the Odd Couple episodes.

How did Oscar and Felix meet? Bob? It was like every other episode had a different explanation. Well, Bob makes a joke about that in his book, that the show was never big on continuity. Gary Marshall was not. He never expected people to have DVDs and watch them and binge on them. So there's a whole section in the back of my book about all the inconsistencies and that's just what they met in the army.

They met as kids. In fact, that's one of the ones where jury duty Adam is in and our father's episode yeah the blinker has a million different explanations about how they got married who got married first who had a kid first I tracked them all and put that section is fascinating in the back because nothing is and they were like you and me they were like you and me in the 70s They didn't think anybody was looking Did they change this there's a in the opening narration he he appeared at the home of his childhood friend Oscar Madison Right, and was childhood later removed. Yes, it was there were a lot of changes

The announcer was a guy in his 90s when I talked to him, William Woodson. William Woodson. William Woodson. And that was the biggest thing of his career. And after that, they would actually hire him looking for a guy who sounded like the opening of The Odd Couple. And he got so much work from that one little bit at the beginning of The Odd Couple, which, by the way, Tony and Jack hated.

Why? Little bit at the beginning of the article which by the way Tony and Jack hated Why it was only there to define that they were two straight men living together That's why it was put there in the first place ABC was very very afraid It was 1970 and it was still before all in the family just a few months before all in the family But that's still not okay to be gay on television So they had to define and really clarify that these two men were living together, divorced and still dating women. The network even changed.

But it changed a few times over the next two seasons and they got rid of it totally by season four. And November 13th, by the way, for Trivia Heads is Gary Marshall's birthday. That's how that date was arrived at. Now the song, have you ever, we played it on the podcast, the odd couple theme with the lyrics. Yeah.

Oh yeah. Yeah, that sounded very gay. It was never you. That was, when you walk down the street, people think we're a couple. Well, that's also why they changed from the movie to the TV series, the name of Felix's ex-wife. It was Francis in the movie, but Francis couldn't be construed as a man's name, Francis Albert

Sinatra, et cetera. So they made it Gloria for the TV series. Another change. Amazing. And Felix in the movie was a news writer. Right. That's right. And not a photographer. Right.

Oh, there's so many weird changes. They changed the spelling of Unger from the movie to the series. They changed it from an A to an E. Yeah. Why do you suppose they do that? Like for what reason is that necessary? That's very strange. And Felix Simon was actually a character

in Come Blow Your Horn before The Odd Couple. He was an offstage character. Had used that name before. It seems like it's one of those producer notes, just those mindless ones that they want to feel like they're doing something, but since Gary Marshall was in charge. That's Bob you also you also read things like that Dean Martin

You know was was considered for Felix and which really doesn't make sense because he had a successful variety show at that time I would never leave that for the odd couple although the Mickey Rooney Yeah, you know we know that that Tony Randall had done the show in Summerstock with Mickey Rooney. And loved working with him. And loved working with him and I guess assumed, and I'm using an odd couple words there, that he was going to work with Mickey Rooney. Now I didn't find this in either of your books, which I found interesting, but I had information that Gary Marshall wanted no part of Mickey Rooney.

Well he had a kind of a difficult reputation. He had had several series before that were pretty disastrous. He had, there's a guy who was very successful in the movies and just couldn't translate to television, but he was also behind the scenes considered difficult. And I think that's why Gary Marshall, he had a reputation. Right. And I think Norman Lear wanted Mickey Rooney to be Archie Bunker. There was talk of that.

Really? Yeah. Yeah. There was talk of that. And, and, and I also discovered this, which I didn't know. I filed this under cool shit I learned while doing research. I didn't know that Jack was reluctant to take on another series because he'd failed in a series and I think, I have this right Bob, 64? Yes. Yeah. It was part of a show called 90 Bristol Court. It was three shows back to back on Monday nights going against CBS's big juggernaut. CBS always owned Monday nights and the ratings. And NBC put these three shows back to back. It was Karen, Paris Against the World,

which was Jack Klugman's show, and another one called Tom, Dick and Mary. And none of them succeeded, but that was, he had a bad experience with sitcoms, and I don't think really, he was reluctant to do another one. So who talked him into it? Universal had screwed him out of his contract. They'd screwed him out of a ton of money.

Oh, really? Yeah, so he goes, he gets the series, goes to David's what? I'm 64, so I'm one years old. Yeah, we moved to California for this. David, yeah, we moved to California. David's five, he rents a house in Beverly Hills. He's got a series, he's got bills to pay,

and the show gets canceled mid-season, and they're contractually obligated to pay him the remainder of his contract and they said, sue us and he's left there holding a bag of like, wow, I got a lot of bills here and he was dead broke, they completely screwed him, but we got them later. So who convinced him to do The Odd Couple if he was reluctant?

That's a good question. I'll tell you how it started. It must have been Gary. From my memory, actually it was Penny Marshall who was nobody at the time. That's right. Penny Marshall and my dad were sitting by the pool and Penny sort of brings up in a voice that my brother could imitate much better than I could. You know, Jack, my brother's doing this show

and he's really thinking about you. And my dad was like, nah, I don't really, and all his reluctance came out, but I think she kind of paved the way a little bit. So by the time my dad got to Gary, he was ready to get on board with it. Penny and Jack had just done an episode of Then Came Bronson, and so they,

Oh, that's right. That's right. One year before, 69. Gary had asked Penny to ask him to do it, and his first response was, nah, I don't do TV, I'm a stage actor. Whatever, I don't do that crap. And then he went and looked at his bank balance

and was like, well, how much are they paying? Not that much. Well, right? I mean, the stage actor here is gonna go, he's got two kids, he's got to mean, it's time to start thinking about that, right? I heard, the stage actor here is not going to go to. He's got two kids. He's got to get his time to start thinking about that. I heard and I hope this is true that the network at first had didn't want Clubman

because he had just done something in a drama that he was very good at. And they didn't see him as a comedic actor. Yeah. Yeah. They thought he was a better dramatic actor. I didn't know that. Do you know what it was that he'd done? I forget what it was, but here he was like. Well, Days and Wine and Roses, he made an impression. Yes. But you know, or they might have been talking about one of those

Twilight Zone episodes. Oh, and 12 Angry Men. 12 Angry Men. Right. None of them. He was known to be a serious actor with a very intense, serious face. I remember as a kid he was in that Church Insight show. Oh yes! I remember seeing it when I was a kid

and I was like, oh my God, Oscar is in the serious Sunday morning show and it was terrific. I don't remember, I thought he was in jail or something but I'm not sure what it, and it was terrific. I don't remember like what, I thought he was in jail or something, but I'm not sure what it was, and it was so serious, and he was so good, and I'd never known him as a serious actor or anything,

so I was like, boy, he's really, I remember as just a kid being like, boy, he's really talented, you know, like if you didn't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was great at either one.

Yeah, really versatile. You know, you read about people who were considered for the roles. Dino I mentioned, which doesn't make a lot of sense. I also read Martin Balsam and Jack Carter. Jack Carter. Jack actually got to do an episode in season 5. He was in an episode, right, right. Was he Jackie Bernie?

Yes. Or Joey Bernie? Joey Bernie, the joke writer. Yeah. Is the limo story true? That everybody tells the smoky limousine story? Yeah, I don't know if that story will. Gary told it to me.

He did. Yeah, yeah. The story is, so it's kind of like art imitating life, or life imitating art rather. So it's the first day of rehearsal. I mean, the first day of principal photography, they're in New York shooting all the exteriors, right? Everybody knows they shot it in LA.

Everybody thinks they shot it in New York. They shot it in LA, and they shot the exteriors in New York, obviously. And so it's the first day, and Gary's setting up the shot, and up comes the limo that has Jack and Tony in it. And out of one side, Tony bursts out and he says, I'm not gonna work with this man.

This man is impossible. He's in there, he's smoking. I've asked him not to smoke, and he just keeps smoking. I'm not gonna do this, I quit. And out of the other side, smoke pouring out, Jack opens the limo door, smoke pouring out, he goes, I can't work with this pain in the ass. I'm in there, I'm smoking. He asked me not to smoke.

That's what I do. I smoke. That's it. I quit. And so suddenly Gary, like both his stars just quit. Gary goes, wait, wait a minute. What about we'll have two limousines, one limousine for Tony.

That's a no smoking limousine. I will have a limousine for Jack. And that's a smoking limousine and he can'll have a limousine for Jack and me, that's a smoking limousine and he can smoke it, and how about we do that? I like it that, like in that, there was a Gary Shanley, like an old Larry Sanders show where I thought Gary was gonna say like, you guys realize you're doing the show right now.

Right. That's it. And is it true? How long did it take for those two to become friends? I think they became better friends in later years after the show. They were always colleagues. They really weren't friends until much later. So there was this kind of confluence of needs that happened.

My dad had gotten throat cancer. He had lost his voice, and was looking at his career being over. I mean, you know, this is a guy whose best friend was acting, his livelihood was acting, and he suddenly not only was he no longer an actor, I mean, he couldn't act, he had no voice. And not only that, but he also had a way to make a living. Right, so he was like, I don't know what the hell's going on. How old was he, Dave? What did that happen?

This was in his early 60s. Early 60s. 65. And then at that same moment, Tony was putting together the National Actors Theater. And so Tony calls Jack. Visual aid passed from the National Theater. There it is.

Look at this, this is the guy. Dave's got his visual aid. Thank you, Dave. Visually, post from the national. There it is. Look at this. Dave's got his visual aid. Thank you. Thank you, David. He's not happy. Just trying to stay on top of things. I love it, Dave. And if you could draw pictures.

It's a little easier. So Tony calls the old man and says, Jack, I'm opening a national actress theater. I want to do a one night only kickoff event. You and me doing the odd couple. It'll just be the two of us. We'll charge $20,000 a play. We'll raise a million dollars in one night.

And Jack, look, to be honest, it sounds like this. This is what he could say. Tony, you don't understand. It's over. My career is over. I can't do it. And of course, he wants to do it more than anything in the world. Of course, this is like, of course, he would love to do this. I can't do it. And of course he wants to do it more than anything in the world. Of course, this is like, of course he would love to do this.

And I can't, it's all what, forget it, don't call me. Tony says, well, look, I've got a lot to do, Jack. So I won't be ready for a year. So I'll give you a year, get your voice together and then we'll do it in a year from now. So get busy. So whatever, my dad hangs up the phone thinking, forget it, right?

I'm not gonna do it, but he can't, right? This is just the animal that he is. He's an actor. He wants to do it. So he calls Tony back and he goes, give me three months before I commit. Right. But in that voice. And he finds an acting coach who gets him to make a sound like this three months of working. He can maybe talk like this is what he sounds like and he calls Tony and he says okay I'll do it that takes balls yes he doesn't have the voice but my dad you understand once he commits he won't uncommit right the one thing he would never do is Welch so if he tells you he's gonna do something he will do it he will show up and do it so he that's why he said give me three months to figure it out. And nine months later, he did it.

And that's a whole other story that's amazing. But that's how that went down. And then from that moment, there. The reunion episode. The reunion movie? Yeah. Which addressed the cancer. Oh, that's right.

Yeah, but that wasn't. Depended on the storyline. That one just didn't work. That was not when the friendship cemented. So the moment that, so my dad's later on stage and the way Tony was so supportive and so loving and took such good care of my father during that whole period and they needed each other

and that was when they fell in love with each other. And that's when they became really good friends. They were always kind of collegial, of course, or collegial, I don't even know how to pronounce that. Dave, what is it, collegial? I would say what you're saying is a good point to this idea of friendship. I think when they started, Tony was the more known actor.

And he was a little full of himself. I mean, let's be honest about Tony Randall, right? So, right? So he was a little, he got 20%, Jack got 10%. There was a reason for that, right? So I think he went in a little, he got 20%, Jack got 10%. You know, there was a reason for that. So I think he went in a little bit like, okay, I'll be able to tell this guy what to do. He was in for a lesson, but he learned it really quick. But the point is, is that they very soon, after a few gristles, like the limousine gristle,

became very respectful of each other. And they became respected colleagues. But I think my brother's saying is true. They went, they didn't really go into friendship, because Tony was drinking wine listening to opera with his wife at night, and my dad was in the horse room in Vegas looking at the racing forms.

So they're hardly going to hang out. So they weren't pals, they weren't friends, but they went from being respected colleagues to almost being lovers, but in the sense that Adam's saying, they kind of fell in love with each other out of a mutual need that grew into this beautiful relationship. It's funny too, like that, you know,

the reason why the show works so well is obviously there was a lot of the two of them in these characters. I mean, they're great actors, we know, but I mean, look, I mean, your dad is a gambler, and you know, and Tony likes opera. I mean, it's really kind of- dad is a gambler. And Tony likes opera. I mean, it's really kind of... They were exaggerated. They found the perfect guys.

Tony liked sports and Tony liked beer, but they really had to exaggerate. The point is they were both such good actors. They could have pulled off either role. Yeah. But they made the right choice in putting them in that. Of course. I heard Tony Randall in an interview he said do you want to know the type of man Jack Klugman is and he said he had asked him to do a play either

the odd couple or sunshine boys and they did it and when they were gonna pay him our Klugman said no give it to you theater group. Yeah, that sounds right. And from the book too, right? The Tony and me book. Yeah, some of the proceeds went to that. All the proceeds to the actors theater. And he, and they were theater actors. I mean, that's why that show worked so well.

They both were theater actors and they spoke a common language without ever having to acknowledge it. They just, they understood each other. And that's it. And there's a way, like in the second season when they opened up, you know, the set, you know, where it was three cameras

instead of just filming the movie. And the live audience. Yeah. And the live audience, that's for actors. They made it more of a play, which is why it was easy for me to do these plays because the dialogue works like a play. There was lots of great just, you know, five minute pieces of great dialogue.

Well, you've heard Tony Randall's and I think Jack has said that over the years, that the laughs are in the play. If you go see a student production, you'll hear the same laughs. Yeah, doesn't matter who's doing it. Right. Doesn't matter who's doing it because that, that, that, that, uh, that play is, is, is ironclad. But on the series, they actually got to see what was funny.

And the first season, they really didn't know. The audience was that stupid laugh track. It just came to life in the second season. When they tried it without a laugh track, that was that episode where Oscar gets a job working for Playboy magazine. Yes, season one, they did the Playboy magazine, the Haram magazine. They did that one without a laugh track. Possibly a new obsession.

John Ashton as Hugh Hefner. Right. Yeah, yeah. Buff Buffington. It's funny, I remember that episode so well and I never thought there, I couldn't, I didn't know there was no laugh track. I researched it and I have to think that because, because Tony and Jack were lobbying,

not only the network, but they were going on talk shows and asking people to write letters to get rid of this, this accursed laugh track. And they got like 300,000 letters, so. Yeah. ABC was convinced. Wow. So that one episode in season one that Gilbert mentions,

the harem episode, I think it's called Oscar's new life. Isn't that exactly what Gary Marshall did for Happy Days as well? Yes, interesting. Same thing, right? Yeah, it just came to life. Yeah, yeah, and it came to life big. Just, you know, yeah, amazing, right? I did want to ask too about something. We jump around here a lot as you guys see. We don't have any kind of consistent thread. But because we've been talking about Jack's gambling and because we do have a gambler within our midst, which is Dave Juskow.

Yeah. Dave. Got it from your dad. It kind of endears you to Jack, but to Oscar, but to the character Oscar in a way because you're a gambler. And then I want to ask Adam and Dave, just what kind of gambler was he? Well, I mean, I became a gambler because of Oscar Madison.

I just thought it was the coolest thing where you could call up and say, hello, Mama Bear, this is Papa Bear. I mean, I wanted a bookie so badly. And then unfortunately I found one and things got bad and I had to start working for, they didn't threaten to break my legs. They made me work for them instead, which was different.

Uh, but I'm gambling on the dolphins, uh, Jacksonville game. As we speak gambling on Thursday night football, but Oscar, Oscar Madison was an inspiration. Oh my God. Absolutely. He was just the cool. But I still, I take my nieces down to the track because that's what Oscar would do. You know, I mean, it's like, uh, to the track because that's what Oscar would do. You know what I mean?

It's like, for some reason, it's horrible that it was so glamorous. He was always in debt and he was always broken. Yet that's what I wanted to be, Oscar. I never wanted to be Felix. I wanted to be Oscar. I remember there was one episode where he gets a hold of money, Oscar,

and he has to make a bet. And he runs out of the house in his underwear. And then he comes back and goes, oh, I just realized I left the money here. And runs out in his underwear. Are you sure that wasn't a story from his real life? I'm reminded of the episode where Felix gives him the money to put a down payment on his cemetery plot. Yeah.

It's got to be five dollars for socks. Yeah. He gambles that one away. But Adam and Dave, you told me he wasn't a crazy reckless gambler like Mathau. He was no, but he was a terrible gambler. He lost all the time. Sundays during my childhood were very scary. He just never knew.

And he would call his bookie and it would be like, superstar here. That was his code name. Superstar. It wasn't Goldilocks. No, it was not. That's how the morning started and it ended with fucking half points. I'm never giving another fucking half point as long as I live. Because he's always getting beat on the half points.

And when he would talk about the horses, he stole the line from somebody else, but he would say that he follows horses that follow horses. He was, and he would get, so when I was a kid, my parents split, and he would come Sundays and pick me up, and that would be our day, and I'd open the door, and he'd go, you wanna go to the track? I'd go, no. No?

I love the track. I'm 12. Like, the track, when you're 12, it's two minutes of action, and 45 minutes of sitting around. I hated it, you know? The track where I go in Monmouth, New Jersey, they actually have a swing set for kids because I think they figured it out.

Right. That a lot of us were bringing nieces and kids and stuff. I have the Dave Jessica Invitational I do every year because I love the track so much and have like a big event where I get to take a picture with the jockey and everything. I have to say- The horses are at the gate

for the Dave Jessica Invitational. That's not far from where I live. Some of the most profound moments of ennui I've ever had was walking around an empty paddock waiting for the next race to start while my dad was making his bets and looking at the forum. Like you, as a child, there's just nothing to do but wait and be lonely, so it's not a fun experience.

No. And then people would come by and give him tips. And that was, and so Sundays ended with fucking half points and any day at the track would end with tips, tips, fucking tips, I'm never gonna take another fucking tip as long as I live. But yeah, that is not true. I have to pretend now, like when I'm with people,

that it's not bothering me because I know, I used to be like that, when I'm with people, that it's not bothering me because I know I used to be like that. I lost a lot of girlfriends that way and relationships because I was just like your dad. Those half points are the worst. They know those guys are so smart. It's all the Robert De Niro from Casino guys figure out those lines.

The half points. No, they were happy and bursting with love. That's it. I got a couple of questions from listeners. Because I want to talk about your mom for a minute. Adam and Dave. I want to talk about Brett Summers. She was like the queen of game shows.

She sure was. Every game show she was on. Yeah. She was on a lot of games. She was funny as shit. She was funny as shit. BW Radley says, I want to ask Dave and Adam how close was Oscar and Blanche's on-screen relationship? to Jack and Brett's

relationship Were there any similarities? Oh Yeah It was pretty combative. I mean our childhood people say what was it like growing up with those two people? I was like like a fucking these fucking Japanese monster movie, youative. I mean, our childhood people say, what was it like growing up with those two people? It was like a fucking Japanese monster movie. Do you know what I mean? Like, wings flapping and smoking, cities falling. There's a big fucking personality, man.

Buildings coming down. Jesus Christ, can you imagine those two people? Two big egos, huh? Just big personalities. And they just think of the parties. Forceful personalities. Forceful personalities. Forceful personalities. So when they would come together,

they'd be like, oh shit, I'm getting out of here. Once they split, like Dave and I had a policy, the four of us are never in a room again. We did it one time, right? Right, Dave, we did it like one time. It was Dave who said it. You mean the let's pretend we're a family thing even though we're divorced at the moment?

Yeah, we did it one time, and Dave came to me after, he goes, we're never gonna do that again. He went to them and said, we're not all four of Yeah, yeah, we did it one time. And Dave came to me after, he goes, we're never gonna do that again. He went to them and said, we're not all four of us ever gonna be in the same room again. If you're born, if you're born and your parents divorced in Hollywood

and they're celebrities, you're obliged to at least one of those, but that's it. That's what I said to you. You did one. Yeah, and that we never did again. So them coming together was, they were really good friends,

but so that it would be great for a little while. And she was funny and my dad loved to laugh. You know, he just loved to laugh and she was very funny and he really enjoyed her. She was pissed, man. She was pissed and she just never gave it up. You know, she did the marriage failed. She kind of just, she just never let go.

And so it was bad when they came. Sorry to hear that. kind of just, she just never let go. And so it was bad when they came together. There was the New Year's Eve episode with Joan Van Ark. Yeah. I interviewed her for my book and she said, already at that point, even though they were on screen together, she could tell that there was something wrong.

Yeah. And that was like 1971, 72. Yeah, you could feel it. You know, Hollywood is, it's impossible to carry on healthy relationships. It's really hard when you, one person becomes successful, the other person isn't and then everybody's roles change and then he's out there and he's getting all this attention and that changes him and changes her. I mean, it gets really complicated, man. I mean, I don't want to get

heavy, but that's hard. That's why Hollywood marriages don't make it. But dad was instrumental in But Dad was instrumental in getting mom on to match game in the first place. Yeah, you just told me that Frank, that was fascinating. Yeah, so David Adam told me. If you if you go back in time on YouTube. So his he had actually a brilliant strategy. So he knew she would be great on that show. He just knew it, right. I mean, because her like her business card should have said, cocktail party guest.

That's what she was doing. She was just the best cocktail party guest ever. So he knew she would be great. And that was just a cocktail party. I mean, they were just getting hammered backstage and coming out and having fun. So he wanted to get her on. So he would say the most horrible things

about her on the show. She wasn't a celebrity, he was. And they used to do a show called He Said, She Said. I don't know if anybody remembers that show. I remember. Joe Garagiola. Yeah, Joe Garagiola. And they were very popular on that,

because they were funny, and they knew how to play off each other. So he was on this show, and he took it, because he knew he was going to get her on. So he would say just horror. I remember I was on YouTube. I mean, Jesus, Dad. I mean, horrible stuff like, like my wife naked, like stuff like that,

like like this, like. And then Jim said, hey, the back of my horse looks just like my blank. And my wife naked, naked. He's not exaggerating. Like that was it. Not exaggerating. He was door to the jugular. That's it.

And so, Jack knew that they would have to have her on eventually to defend herself. And she did, and she came on, and because she was so funny, they loved her. And then he- How did it work with the, like when she was on multiple seasons, when it was clear that

she was like a regular, did she get paid like a series regular? On what? Or was she in a match game? Yeah, that was a nice game. On the match game, they did, that was the best job in the world, man. They worked two days, they worked four days a week. They would shoot five shows on Friday, five shows on Saturday, take two weeks off and do the same thing two weeks later. And she was was making 100 grand a year in 1973 doing that.

Oh sweet magic. That's what you wanted to do. Yeah, that was sweet magic. That was a good job. I call it my father's divorce parting gift. Yeah. Getting rid of the shock. Jumping back to something else we were talking about earlier, I always felt awkward that they do those episodes of The Odd Couple where Oscar has some guy he plays softball with and they

drink beer together and Felix would go, why he's the head of the so-and-so ballet. he's the head of the so and so ballet. I think I'm how Ron Friedman wrote one of those Richard Frederick's. They try to show these ballet dancers and Oscar opera singers as you know, beer, cause you know, skirt chasing regular guys. You know?

That's what made Oscar so attractive. They each got to pick some of the co-stars. Jack always wanted the sports figures, like Deacon Jones and Howard Cosell, and Tony conversely got Marilyn Horn and Richard Fredericks. Edward Vilella. And Latina Arroyo and those kind of people. So both of them were happy.

And the writers would have to adapt. And in fact, one of the Howard Cosell episodes, they had, it was already planned out and they had to rewrite it because Tony wanted Martina Arroyo to be in that episode. So they suddenly had to make Howard Cosell a fan of opera, which he wasn't. Ah, wow.

Good stuff. I was totally fooled opera, which he wasn't. Wow. I didn't know that. I was totally fooled. I thought he loved opera. I always thought... Miss Arroyo, the culmination of a life streak. Very good. And that's when she says, I found Oscar shorts in the oven. Bob, talk about the ratings.

Talk about how the show wound up getting pretty much cancelled at the end of every season. There was an executive at ABC, I believe it was Martin Starger, who was a fan of the show, but they never finished in the top 30. No. The best they did was season 3 at number 36. That was the best they ever did. And they were actually canceled every year. And they would do better during the summer

because ABC moved the show around a lot. And finally during the summer, they would show the reruns at one set time and people can kind of plan around it. Plus they probably had seen other shows and they were being rerun. They hadn't seen The Odd Couple so they were watching that. The ratings always had a surge during the summer. Yeah, I mean I think they...

And so even after being canceled, ABC would say something like, okay, we'll give you another season. And it was a very inexpensive show to produce. Klugman wore a lot of his own clothes. Eleanor Donahue had very expensive clothing from a long career and she would actually wear her own Halston dresses and stuff. The budget was not big and they weren't looking to make friends type money, they just wanted to work. That was another reason, another factor why ABC would renew it every year up to season five and it was almost a season six in that final episode, Felix remarries.

They actually did two endings. One just in case they got renewed for a sixth season. I've yet to ever see. I don't even know if they kept it, but I have never seen the alternate ending. Do you know what it is though? That's exciting. Do you know what it is? The alternate ending?

Well, they don't get married. Oh, I see. Because they do in the final episode. And Oscar says, I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. He dances around the house knowing that he has his life back. And then the last line is the garbage can. I knew he wasn't going to pick it up. I knew he'd't going to pick it up. Yes, yes. I know he'd pick it up. Jack is the one who told Tony that he thinks people are going to find the show later on. Yeah, he was confident of that. Because Tony was ready to quit. I would even know that, you know, back then.

It's amazing. Because he would say you can't have this many talented people working on a show. It's just not possible. You know, you had Jerry Belson, you had Gary Marshall. You know what I mean? And I remember as a kid, I used to, I would wait for him, I'd be at Paramount waiting for him to finish, like on a Friday after school.

And you would hear them, I'd be like doing my homework or fucking around doing something and I shouldn't. And I'd hear them screaming at each other. They were just like, you know, 12 writers just yelling, screaming at each other. Oh wow, that doesn't sound good. Five minutes later, hysterically laughing, you know, just having a great time. I mean, I remember thinking that that sounds like a really good job. But everybody working on it was so talented and he used to say, you just can't have this many talented people working on a show.

And this is gonna be a classic one day. And like you said, when they, if they're- What was unique too is that Tony and Jack contributed to the writing. Unlike most other shows, they actually stayed and contributed their own. They were welcomed into the writer's room, which doesn't happen. And I wouldn't say they weren't welcomed.

They pushed their way into the writer's room. Actors are welcome. The writer's very reluctant. And then they realized, wow, these guys are great. And so sometimes they would show up and say, all right, here's the scene. Jack, Felix teaches Oscar how to play football. And then they would improvise it.

So that classic scene, they improvised it and the writers went off and wrote it. It sounds like when you say when they were yelling and screaming at each other, that's how passionate they were about the show, which is why it was so good for us. There was one, you know, it's amazing you say, you know, it didn't do well in the ratings,

yet they, your father I believe was nominated every year, I think they both were every year. So they were both up together. He won three out of the five, two out of the five years. Two, Jack was right Jack and Tony won the last year final year was there any ill will between for Jack winning and no but there's one blooper real where my dad keeps fucking up the part and Tony says to him come on Emmy winner do your part I'm sure he held a little something. You know what I mean? Yeah, right. I'm right.

Well, also, think about this. Because remember, he started off the bigger star. What's more amazing than your dad, what we were just talking about, is acting technique. I mean, and how good he was, and sometimes you forget when a show is so iconic like that. But then, your dad's nominated

for another three times, for a dramatic part in Quincy. I mean, that's unbelievable, especially to have a second successful TV series. The odds are astronomical. Yeah, he made a good bet there. Everybody really loved your dad very much. He's a lovable actor. They wanted him to succeed.

Now, jumping back to the gambling, I once heard Tony Randall tell a story that a Jack, Jack told him cause he owned horses after a while you had that. And, um, he was telling Jack how they collected semen. When this whole site side for breeding. And that he said, he told Jack that it was like someone did it by hand. That's right. That's how they do it.

And Tony said, and how did the horse react? Jack Lehmann went, he liked it. Sounds like my dad. and then Jack Clements went, he liked it. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha talking to my friend Joe, and he told me, I told him I was gonna meet you guys, and he told me that he has an autographed picture of your father with a spaghetti sauce recipe on the back. Do you know about that? Well, tell him to trust it, because my dad made a mean spaghetti sauce.

No, tell him to send me a picture of it. I wasn't sure if you guys knew about it, and I said you're gonna have to find that. Get him a picture. Okay. Oh, yeah. I've tried to recreate it a couple times, and I said you're gonna have to find that. Get him a picture. Okay. Oh yeah. I've tried to recreate it a couple times, and every once in a while I'll hit it. I know the essence of it.

It is, you know, he was Jewish kid, South Philly, Italian neighborhood. So he learned it from some old Italian mom, and it was the best pasta sauce he ever had. What's funnier than having it on the back of your resume, you know? That's how we got work. I got a couple of more quick questions from listeners here.

Gilbert, this one's for you. It's from Rob Martinez, and he just asks, you know Oscar Homolka? Yes. I remember watching that episode with my mother. And yeah, because he calls up, Oscar calls up some girl and he goes, yeah, it's Oscar. Ah, Oscar Madison, how many Oscars do you know? And then there's a pause and he goes, you know Oscar Homo?

And I was with me and my mom cracking up. Is it Crazy Rhoda Zimmerman that he's calling? Crazy Rhoda. That's you and Jerry Belson. So that's Jerry Belson's mind. That's a Jerry Belson joke. That's Jerry Belson or Gary Marshall, buddy, see one of them.

That's a Jerry Belson joke for sure. Here's another one for the panel from Eric Z. Gilbert. He calls himself Eric Z. MD Medical Deviant. Oh, that's based on one of my favorite movies. There you go. He says, Can any of you guys tell me what the capital of Bolivia is? La Paz. Yes, that's the one where Oscar had to take a job in a diner.

That's right. The greasy spoon. Tony says, you know, how did you wind up? Olaf's. And he said something like, says, you know, how did you wind up? Olaf's. And he said something like, well, I, uh, some guy jumped me in an alleyway, asked me what's the capital of Bolivia is. And I couldn't answer and he hit me over the head. And here I am. And Tony Randall goes, that's the most ridiculous story I've ever heard. Everyone knows the capital of Olivia. So odd.

It's a great one. There were also, there were a few really nice moments in some of those odd couple episodes where you saw like a love between the two characters. The odd candidate especially. That's one where. Oh yeah. Felix runs, Oscar runs for city council. Felix puts Oscar up to be councilman and he doesn't win but Oscar at the end is so appreciative. There's a really nice moment to close out that episode which you didn't see all the

time. And there's an episode where they both like try to get healthy and Oscar says to him, who cares if you live 30 years and I only live 20? And Felix says, I'll miss you. Right. Yeah. And there's there's something to be said here, not to be not to get somber. But my dad found his way, you know, like you said, when he was going to replace Walter Mathau, he was scared shitless. So he sat in the audience 16 times and watched that play to see where the hole was, if there was one. And he found it in the second act when, according to that,

there's only one origin story they met in childhood and then you walk into my life my oldest and dearest friend and my dad's watched it 15 times and on the 16th time he goes you're lying you're treating him like the butt of a joke which is what our Carney had a nervous breakdown after that run he was treating him like that which is what Walter Mathel mainly does, unless Jack Lemmon's not letting him do it. And my dad said, I'm going to play the love, right? And it was easy for him because it was like his mother, I love you, but you drive me crazy. I can't get rid of you. I don't want to get rid of you, but you make me nuts. And that

action really worked for him and and was his way into the role conversely and I only heard this recently Tony I saw it on YouTube they were asked how they regarded each other I think it was Merv Griffin or something and and Tony said something I really interesting he said well I see Oscar as a very troubled hurt man who covers everything up with a lot of mess so that was his line of compassion into him. He didn't just see him as a messy douchebag. He saw him as a hurting guy who just that was the only way he could control. There was a great episode with William Redfield.

And brothers. Oh, that's when he off to Buffalo. Yes, where he plays Felix's brother. Floyd. And at one point when they're both, he and his brother are arguing, Oscar says, well, I'll leave you two alone now. And William Redfield says to him, he goes, no Oscar, you stay, your family. Yeah. There are a lot of sweet moments. Well, Dave, Jack, you know, Dad was always looking.

He was always asking the writers, what do I want? What do I feel? He was trying to treat the comedy, he was trying to play the comedy real and he was trying to look for the what he knew. What he knew. The love scene. The love scene. That was the cliche, where's the love scene?

But the truth under that, which is related. It's not an esoteric secret They were from the stage. They knew that if anything was really funny It had to grow up out of the ground to be real It can be these friends joke joke joke joke joke and by the way There was no friend salary back when they were doing the out of bubbles, so they didn't miss anything They just they didn't know they would ask for it Yeah, I'm stuck on this. I'm remembering all the nice moments. There was that one where Oscar puts his name

on a singles thing. And then he asked his looks, he says, above average. And Tony Randall keeps saying, no, you're not above average. He goes, you're at most plain. And then at the end, Oscar does something nice. And Felix says to him, you're well above average, Oscar. Yeah, that's another sweet one. Gilbert, I love how you've remembered

all these sentimental moments from the show. I'm crying over here. I'm tearing up. What a big hearted guy you are. I like always when they had the sentimental moments and then they just had the great punchline for the end with the horns coming in, you know, like when they thought they were getting old

and they met those girls and then, you know, and then they have this and he's like, look, so we're old. I mean, what's the big deal, whatever it is. And then he's just like, and that's what you woke me up at two o'clock in the morning. He goes, no, it's time for the party. Yeah. I think the genius, the genius of Gary Marshall

and Jerry Bellson on that line was that they knew where the fall was into sentimentality from the sentimental and they never let it go there so it never became cheesy or cheap it was always earned yeah and that's why it was earned comedy right I like when they're tied up together by the burglars and Felix starts singing wherever we go we're together and Osc And Oscar's hopping away from him. You know, it's not quite a homoerotic subtext. I mean, that would be taking it too far.

But there is a romance going on between these two guys. It's a- Absolutely. A romance. It's a romance. A full-on romance. One of the earliest bromances. I mean, there are other ones.

It's real. It's really, I mean, like Jack says about Tony, that people don't realize how good he was. He never said a word, he didn't believe. He never made a false move. He never made an action that he didn't believe. The way they sold their affection for each other is I think one of the reasons we love the show

and that it endures. And I think that's right. I mean, my dad definitely gave me an appreciation of how good Tony is. Go back and look how good Tony is. You know think that's right. I mean, my dad definitely gave me an appreciation of how good Tony is. Go back and look how good Tony is. You know, he's not, Felix is a pain in the ass, so he's not a likable character. So people don't, you know, so, so everybody identifies with Oscar, right? So that's right.

But if you look like I remember, uh, I was, uh, one, one week, you know, it was just, I would always just be moving in and out of it. And Tony looked sick. There's an episode where he's really sick. I can't remember what the episode is, but he didn't drop it. He was sick all week. Like, he would stay sick all week. Always his character.

Yeah, he was, but he, so he looked sick. And he was, I mean, Tony was such a good actor. And it was really my dad that said, look at him. Look what he's doing. That's... Here's the thing about, and also it's the writing, but if you look at the Ron Glastonman Wilson version, if you look at the Tom Lennon Matthew Perry version,

even the movie, there isn't the same love. There isn't the same affection. You get the sense in a way that Tony Randall, that Felix is mothering him. You know, they actually achieve that sort of husband and wife dynamic. Well, Ron Glass would not buy into the Felix character. He didn't want to look foolish. Conversely to what Tony Randall did, he did not want to look like a buffoon every week.

And so the writing had to change a bit. And so it wasn't as real as the first series. Oh, and I remember there was another episode where Felix's daughter visits. And then she gets angry and she leaves a note for Felix. That's the Paul Williams episode. Paul Williams. Yes, yes. Oh, she's going to travel with him.

And Oscar comes home and he finds the note and he hands it to Felix and he goes, I can't stand being treated like a child. I'm leaving. Oh, Oscar, we've been through this. I mean. I mean. I mean. By the way, that's an episode with a lot of sentiment.

Yes. Because Oscar puts them together. Or he sets up Paul Williams to do it. But Oscar is a hero in that episode. He does that too with his son. We were just talking about this before when he wakes him up in the middle of the night and says, just give your father another chance. And he's like, Uncle Oscar, I don't want to play cards now.

And he goes, no, no, it's not about that. I'm going to pay you back that money I owe you too. But he's trying to help Philly out. You're right. And the other ones don't go. Was the wrong glass one? Were they using the same scripts? One of them they were using the... Yes. In some ways. Yeah, in some ways. And the other ones don't go was the wrong glass one. Were they using the same scripts? One of them they were using.

Yes. Yeah. Some ways. Uh, yeah. It was, they were doing a weird time period there where they were doing all black recreations of other shows. Like they, there was the odd couple and then I think, Oh, there was, well they did a black version of Barefoot in the Park. Barefoot in the Park too. Very odd. With Scoey Mitchell.

Adam, tell us about working with Gary Marshall in the Flamingo Kid. And tell us about your relationship with Gary in general. I mean, he was close to you guys. Yeah, you know, my dad was a bit of a loner actually, you know? But Gary was his best friend and we were like family. Gary would always tease me. I was in sixth grade and I played Prometheus in the school play

and I was tied to the rock, right? But I wasn't tied to the rock. So I would hold my arms around, I'd go, oh, if I could just get off this rock, and then I'd reach around and scratch my nose. Right? So Gary would always teach me. I remember you when you were me.

I couldn't, I can't, if I could get off this rock, it would be so nice to get off this rock. And then he would always tease me about it. So we grew up together, I know Gary since I was in sixth grade. Gary was the kindest, most generous man. You guys were talking earlier about Mickey Rooney. He doesn't do drama. Yeah.

He just doesn't do drama on set. So I was in the Flamingo Kid. I was cover set, which means, you know, people don't know when it's raining, we shoot. We were shooting at this country club out in Rockaway in November, trying to make it look warm. But Gary knew that it wasn't going to rain all that much, so I made a bunch of money.

And Gary was just, Gary shoots a lot as far as just from a technical standpoint. Gary shoots everything and then cuts it later. But I mean, Gary, look at the people, Tom Hanks and Julia Roberts. None of the people who have worked with him say anything, but he was just an absolute pleasure, the kindest man, the generous man. He always used to say, you have to be nice to the people on the way up,

because when you're going down, they might kick you. You know, so he... And that was true, because Gary had, he had, say, one of his lawyers or somebody had put him in a really bad deal. I remember that was- So he had made Pretty Woman and it was a huge hit. Some one of his lawyers took all that money and put it in some land deal. He had no cash.

And he had made that Doctors in Love movie or something. Yeah. And he made a couple of flops. Doctors in Love. And his career was, oh no, this was prior to Pretty Woman. Pretty Woman was the comeback. He had made a couple of bad movies and it looked like his career was kind of going down and people helped him because he had helped others.

We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast, but first a word from our sponsor. Adam, is there a Sinatra story? Oh, there is. Yeah, there is. Can you give us the condensed version of it? I'll try to give you the,

it's hard to condense this story. I know there was a Sinatra story in there somewhere. There's always a Sinatra story in there somewhere. There's always a Sinatra story. So growing up, I was rock and roller, long hair, and then in my 20s, I kind of got it. Like Sinatra was great. Hated that music when I was a kid. I'm in my 20s. I'm really into Sinatra.

So that's just a little bit of background on my orientation. So my dad calls me one week on a Monday and he goes, you want to go to the fights? And I used to go down on Friday, he'd make pasta and we would watch fights, he would bootleg the fights on his TV. And I go, yeah, I'll come down on Friday, what time? He goes, no, no, no, Vegas.

I was like, yay, wait, you want me to go to Vegas with you? He's like, yeah, one condition, no girlfriends. I was like, wait a minute, you want me to go to Vegas with you? He's like, yeah, one condition, no girlfriends. I was like, wait a minute, you're asking me to go to Las Vegas and leave my girlfriend behind and you and I are gonna kick it at Vegas for the weekend? Fuck yes, I'm in. I'm in. What fight is it?

And it's the Hagler Leonard fight. You know, like the one, if you know fights, that was the one that just changed Marvin Hagler. I mean, it broke Marvin Hagler. Yeah. He got a raw deal. So I'm like, yeah, definitely.

So we're going to, it's Caesar's Palace and we're walking through the lobby and he hands me the ticket and I look down at the ticket, it's 84. And I see $800 on the ticket. I'm like, Jesus Christ, that 800, I wouldn't pay that. My dad would never pay $800 for that ticket to anything. Because not I did some commercial, Nate, they gave it to me. I'm like, okay, this could be interesting.

So we walk into Caesar's Palace and we go to the first round, we walk down, we keep walking down, we keep walking down. I'm like, Jesus, we're walking towards the front of the stadium, right? We end up walk all the way down We're ringside and we're sitting in sugar a Leonard's corner because he knows Angelo Dundee who's also a Philly guy So we're this is the Marvin Hagler Leonard fight and we're sitting on the corner And I'm like, okay now

sitting on the corner and I'm like okay now people are like what's it like you know having a celebrity as a father this is definitely the upside for sure like this is that we're on the fucking corner I'm like this is incredible I've got a beard I look like a rabbi so all of a sudden so we're sitting there and you know usual celebrities you see him and everything and so so my dad and Frank Sinatra know each other because they did the candidate together, right? So many, many years ago. So before this. So there's a little bit of commotion

and these guys come out and you know who they are. They're in Vegas, they're Italian looking guys, and they're looking, they're checking everything out, there's a little bit of commotion, and then they go away. And then all of a sudden they come back out and they're like, Mr. Frank Sinatra coming through. Frank Sinatra. So there's all this commotion, right? So they're sent out to, there's his scouts, they're sent out to find out who's sitting where, so Frank can chart his course to his seat, right?

And Sinatra, so now there's all this commotion and my dad turns to me and he says, I'm not getting up. What do you mean you're not getting up? Frank Sinatra goes, I'm not getting up. I'm like, dad, you got to stand up. Frank Sinatra goes, I'm not getting up and neither are you. This is going to be really interesting. So now it's a full stadium. There's 20,000 people in Caesar's Palace or whatever it is. Everybody in Caesar's Palace knows that Frank Sinatra just entered

the building. Everyone. My dad's looking away, pretending he doesn't. And you're like, I'm like, dad, here he comes. So Sinatra starting to come. And my man has pledged that he's not going to stand up. And you have to understand that for my dad, this is like a code of the corner. They're communicating nonverbally from the minute, you know, Sinatra walks in. The worst thing that could happen to my father would be that he would stand up and Sinatra would walk by. My dad would throw himself out of the hotel window that night, like that's his worst fear, right? Go to the corner, that doesn't happen. So I'm sitting there and Sinatra's coming closer

and closer and closer, like what the fuck is gonna happen? This is crazy, I can't believe this is happening. And he's not, and Jack's looking away like there's something more important. Meanwhile, the entire 20,000 people know Sinatra's there And he walked and he's coming closer like Jesus Christ and he comes right up Next to my man and we're on the corner, right? He stops and he says what's the matter Jake? You don't stand up for me. I called him Jake. And my dad turns to him and goes, Frank, I didn't see ya.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And he turns to me and he goes, stand up. I don't know. I don't know. I never heard that part of it.

Fantastic. So I stand up and I'm like, holy shit, I'm gonna go eyeball to eyeball Frank Sinatra. And I'm a huge fan at this point, right? This is definitely a peak experience. So Sinatra looks over at me. He goes, Frank, this is my son Adam, and I've got a beard. And Sinatra reaches over and he grabs my, doesn't shake my hand, doesn't grab my hand,

grabs my beard so fucking hard, like bring tears to your eyes. Not like, hey, it wasn't a tug, it was like, it's testing my manhood, right? I did, not flinching, you know, I know you're pulling my beard out, but I'm not gonna flinch. He pulls it really hard and holds it for a second,

and I'm eyeball to eyeball with Sinatra. I'm looking in Sinatra's blue eyes. And he lets it go, smacks me across the face good and hard, turns to my father and goes, nice looking boy, Jack. I'm walking through. Wow. And then my dad goes, turns to me and goes, sit down. I'm like, go ahead.

I'm like, go ahead. Good story. That's a good story. That's worth telling, right, Frank? Good stuff, Adam. Good stuff. Okay, let's go quick and's what I'm telling, right Frank? Good stuff, Adam. Good stuff. Okay, let's go quick and we'll go around as we run out of time. Quickly, favorite episode and why?

Bob? Favorite episode? Probably Take My Furniture, Please. With Bella Brooke. Written by Harvey Miller. Yeah, Harvey Miller. I was in a Harvey Miller movie. He was.

Bed Medicine. Yeah. Harvey Skolnick. He was a nut. Harvey Skolnick. Harvey Skolnick. I even have a hand chair. He does have a hand chair. Oh, yes. Yes. I feel like an M&M. I have one. I should have tried to get it. Oh, I remember this. How do you feel Oscar? Like I'm in short by Austin. I feel like an M&M. You know what they did with those hand chairs? Oh, I remember this. How do you feel, Oscar? Like I'm ensured by Elston. I feel like an M&M. You know what they did with those hand chairs? I remember that.

I was on set with those hand chairs and it was kind of cool because you'd never seen them before, right? And the cast, I mean the crew, when they came back from dinner to shoot, they had bitten it down so the chair was given to them by the finger. Dave just held up his middle finger, since this is an audio podcast. Dave Juskow, favorite episode and why, quickly. I just have to go with the standard password one. Password.

It is just absolutely the greatest, as everyone says, and mostly for the absolute genius when you're a kid, the writing, when they get back to that Lincoln, ridiculous. When you're a kid, you're like, oh my God, that's the smartest thing I've ever seen in my life. They bought it around like that. Aristophanes. Written by the late Frank Buxton, right, Bob? Yes. Game show host. That's where he says granite. Graphite. Yeah, graphite. Graphite. Lead, graphite, pencil. I love pets. It's such a pretty word. I love pets.

I see. I loved him, he was also a game show host at one time. David, what I love in that episode is you can see that Jack's collar is up, right? It's not supposed to be up. And so when you watch again, Tony reaches over and tries to fix it, he goes, get out of here, right? It works so perfectly.

It's high off. Recently've run the tie off. Recently, I just saw extended footage I'd never seen before on Channel 11. Oh yeah? Like a whole other scene that I never had seen before. Really? Oh, they caught him and they put it back in. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Syndication. Yeah, it was awesome. Didn't Dad like the Password episode? I think he did. I think that was his favorite episode. I know it's the standard, but it's the best. Okay, Gilbert, favorite Odd Couple episode. I mean, it's the standard, but yeah, it's the best. Okay, Gilbert favorite odd couple episode I mean, it's almost impossible because I mean so many great ones But I did like the one where they go back in time and he's blinky. Well Adams in that one

What oh what I remember about that one is I, oh, who was the girl in that? Who was the actor? Barbara Rhodes. Our friend Barbara Rhodes. Barbara Rhodes. Her New York City's wife. That's right.

So she's like a sexy girl and she's sitting on Tony Randall's lap and trying to kiss him. And he goes, Miss, I wouldn't do that if I were you. I have a, what's that word I'm thinking of? And then he goes, oh, wife, wife. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Gilbert Wilber the Gunsel is in that episode. Yes, Elijah Cook Jr. Elijah Cook Jr. Turns up in that episode. That's a good, Blinky Madison, one of my favorites. Okay, Dave, favorite episode.

You know, I wish I had one. I'm not the aficionado as you guys are, but I've seen the play so many times in so many iterations with my dad. I would have to say that it's so much nearer and dearer to me than any of the episodes. Interesting. I sort of see that all of this series as splinters out of this brilliant idea that actually came from Danny Simon, not Neil Simon. Roy Gerber. And his roommate, Roy Gerber. Right. And the genius of it is, as my dad said and it's obvious to see, everyone's going to relate

because if you put any two people together, you're going to get some kind of odd couple. And if you know how to play with that, you're going to make people laugh. It's funny. And we were talking on the phone how Neil Simon did it again with a man and a woman and the goodbye girl. Yeah, same thing. People forced to share in the apartment. But Dave, was there a moment on stage that dad did that stands out to you? My favorite moment in the play is when Tony is just furious that my father,

that Oscar's come home late and the rump roast is burnt. And he's sitting on one side of the room, my dad feels like a shame child on the other side of the room, and he says, well, why don't you go get another roast? And Tony Randall gets up angrily and wants to go, where am I going to get a rump roast at 12 o'clock? And you know, starts yelling at him. And it's just this genuine moment of like, you don't understand anything of what I've gone through.

You know, it's like this, this herd housewife and this dumb, you know, one piece. They use that line again and I think it's the password. Do you ever know a Monday when I didn't bake? Yes. Exactly. I'm so jealous of you, Dave, that you got to go on the road with those guys and watch that stuff from the wings. What a life experience.

It was cool. When I was young, as I will say, where I laughed the hardest the first time I saw it was Ziggy? After Oscar and Tony have had a terrible fight and they're not talking to each other, Tony's built a nice, you've seen the play, he's got a nice plate of pasta for him

and my dad just did it so well. He's doing end dust, you know, in the air. The opposite of what he would do normally and so Tony covers his pasta thinking, you know, he's gonna come over and get me. So, you know, my dad does the old trick where he puts it down. Tony releases his hands and then he just sprays the pasta. And it's such a fun, and he goes, you did, look what you did to, he says, what would

to my, to you, buy your spaghetti. And he goes, ah, you're such an imbecile. It's not spaghetti, it's linguini. What I wouldn't, that was garbage. That's when Oscar picks up the garbage. And now it's garbage. It's what I wouldn't give to see those two guys and doing that play.

I'll tell you, Victor Spinedy was not someone to underestimate in that play. He was incredible. I mean, that was only seven, but the impression he made on me was incredible. From a hard day's night. Adam, favorite episode or favorite moment of dads on screen? The Monks.

The Monks. Yeah, that's beautiful. That scene where they're silently baking, right? And the X is on the chest. And you go, why don't you bake your stomach? Right, that culminates in that line. That bit to me is classic.

Honeymooners, I don't care what, it's as good as anything you'll ever see on TV. And now you know what a good father Jack was because Adam did not choose the episode with himself. No, there you go. That's exactly what I do. I can't listen to a big ego. I remember the one with the monk,

one of the guys gives a whole long speech saying, he goes, today I watched a butterfly land on a flower. And it flapped its wings gently and Oscar goes and he's the social director. I'm Dick Stahl. Nine episodes. He was in nine episodes. Genius. Oh my god the episode the part that makes me crack up is when they both decide to go

into therapy. Oh yeah. Yeah. And there's that argument between the therapist and the secretary. Richard Stahl and his secretary, where she says, you are bald. Shirley Mitchell. Right. Yeah.

And he's great. Shirley Mitchell. She goes, he says, you know, do something, type that up, and she goes, you type it up, and he goes, I don't need to type it up, and then he goes, I have my own job, and he holds his diploma. Yeah, I'm a doctor. He's also great as the pet store owner when Oscar types on the frog's leg and injures the frog. I wanna read some of those. Nine episodes, they must've loved him.

Richard Stahl, Jesus. Yeah, yeah, they did. Oh, he was great. He was great. But you know, another reason that I love the show is those character actors, Bob, and you list them all in the book. I mean, Bellabruck, who always cracked Jack up,

Pushover Page, the great John Fiedler, who was in the movie. Oh, yeah. who always cracked Jack up, push over Paige, the great John Fiedler, who was in the movie. Yes, yes. There's a couple movies. He was a friend. He was in a couple movies too. John Fiedler was a friend of the family. He was a friend of my mother's.

Oh, is that right? Yeah, he was close. He was in 12 Angry Men too. He was in that movie with the high security building. Yeah, he's also the trainer of Silver the Wonder. He was in that movie with the high security building. Yeah, he's also the trainer of Silver the Wonder Dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Jack Sue as the wrestler. Jack Sue as the sumo wrestler.

The great Vito Scottie. Rita Shaw who played that nanny from hell, the one that Felix hires to take care of Oscar Ed Peck is the tough guy on the Belkin Airlines Probably wasn't even in the service sissies That's a great one arrow airline flying Felix, right? There's a tremendous woman blocking the aisle. There's a story about that one.

And I remember Tony Randall looking out of the plane and going, wait, I could read that lips. I fear there's something wrong with the fuselage, Frederick. That was Tony's idea to have the parachutes. They originally had it, it was going to be a gay charter flight. And ABC put their foot down and said, you can't do that. And so they were trying to come up with an ending for it. And it was Tony Randall who came up with, it was a parachute club

and they would be the only two left. That was a contribution in the writer's room to that. There's nothing better when he comes back from the bathroom and just sits down and then take. Yeah, the take. And then suddenly it hits him. What's the timing on that that you actually figure it out? All those actors. Fritz Feld shows up, Gilbert.

Yes, yes. The great Louis Gus, who says maybe they teach geese. Charles Lane, the ageless Charles Lane, shows up in the furniture episode. I've got cash! I want that desk! Cliff Norton as Lloyds of Lubbock. The great Dub Taylor shows up in the quarterback, the Eskimo quarterback episode.

So many wonderful characters. What about John Biner? Hey, Mark is my one! Yes, I'm gonna, in fact, since I didn't go and pick my favorite episode, I'm gonna pick the new car. Yeah, that's a good one. John Biner, and Dave told me on the phone that Dad couldn't do a straight take.

He couldn't keep a straight face with Biner. No, I was in the dressing room with my dad, and I remember him saying, I'm not gonna get through it. I go, what? I gotta get through this. It's the same deal every bubble. I go, what? I got to get through this. It's the same deal every bubble. Some of our John Biner just slayed him every time. When you see him do it, you see he goes,

hey, part of my life. So if you look at the gag reel, you can see he starts to laugh and Tony doesn't know it. And Jack's just like practically tears coming down his face. And then he turns to him and the whole scene is over. So he said he couldn't get through it and Jack's just like practically tears come down his face and then he turns to him and the whole scene is over so uh he said he couldn't get through it and he couldn't and actually if you go back as I told you Frank earlier and look at the scene that they actually finally got through yeah it's not really that good because my dad just like I said he looks

like an eight-year-old trying to just get out the way you know the outtake at the end, Tony says, bad, bad, bad, bad. Look at my life! Give me a straight, I'll give you an ordinance. Gilbert, other than John Biner, eight guests of this very podcast appeared on The Odd Couple. Can you name one? Okay, let's see. There is, well, of course you already said, John Paul Williams. Right. Oh, was Peter Marshall?

No. No. Okay. Oh, damn it. Oh, David Steinberg. Very good. Okay. Oh, shit.

Let me see. I'm going to read them off in the interest of time. Yes. Yes. John Biner was here. David Steinberg, Bernie Coppell, Dick Cavett, John Aston, we mentioned, Joyce Van Patten and Clint Howard. Oh, wow.

Yes. Joyce Van Patten and Clint Howard. Oh, wow. Yes. We also had Barbara Barry, who was in the odd couple move remake or the the sequel, the TV movie, and our friend Ron Friedman, as we said, who wrote seven episodes and a lot of other guests on this show have odd couple connections like Matthew Broderick played Felix and Paul Dooley played Felix I believe and Jason Alexander played Oscar or Felix? I think he played Oscar. Felix.

Oh, I thought he played Felix. I'm sorry. Or maybe he played Felix. Anyway. I would have liked to have seen him in either role. A lot of odd couple connections. So real quick, let's plug Bob's books. Bob quickly, this great Odd Couple book,

which people can get on Amazon, full of stories. You've got an episode guide, you've got a glossary in there. A lot of fun, a lot of great interviews. It's called The Odd Couple on stage and screen from McFarland Publishing, but it's available wherever books are sold online. And people can get your other wonderful books about pop music and sitcom history. And you're a man after my own heart

Yes, and one about wings coming up which? Involves our host. Oh Gilbert you have to give Bob an interview. I did three episodes. Yes funny episode Yes with with Lewis Blanchard Yes, and with, um, yes. And, uh, with, with William Hickey, very good. And Dave, let's hear about your podcast. Oh, it's called the night fly.

And it's, uh, basically just talking about this kind of stuff. And, uh, you know, a lot of $6 million man references. But it's a, just a hodgepodge of, of nonsense and stuff. We like to remember. And, uh, on Tuesdays I do a show on YouTube through the comedy seller, uh, just making football picks at eight 30. Okay. And Dave and Adam, I can't imagine you've have anything to plug, but let's just the book.

Let's put Tony and me, Tony and me available on Amazon. You can get the Kindle version and get the iBooks version. Definitely. If you love the odd couple and you love the old man and you love Tony, it's you'll read it fast. It's really good. And a lot of it is in Jack's voice too. So you really get it. And you learn a little bit more about Jack's history. And, you history and like the story I didn't tell about how he, at seven years old, knew that he wanted to be an actor and then kept it a secret for 15 years. So you know what I mean. And the hardcover comes with a gag reel for only 20 bucks.

That's right. Just the throw then. I teared up reading the end of the book and we'll make people buy the book to hear the Helen Hayes story the night you guys were in the room. It's a beautiful story. It's a beautiful story about Jack's courage. And we'll urge people to buy the book. And if you're not a fan of this show, what the hell is wrong with you?

Find these episodes, track them down, do the research into these great actors and into Harvey Miller and Gary Marshall and Jerry Belson and all of the wonderful character actors we named. I want to dedicate this episode to some people, to our friend Ron Friedman and to John and Terry and Laura Musio and Jeff Bernstein and Vinny Favale, the biggest odd couple fans I know, and we also want to thank Orville Krueger, Dr. Klove, Aristophanes, Happy Greshler, Harry Tallman, Mildred Fleener, Wild Willy Boggs, Crazy Rhoda Zimmerman, Oscar Matassoi, Bob Gungham, and of course,

Silver the Wonder Dog. Guys, this was a blast. Thank you. It's the first time I've worn pants in a long time Thank you. It's the first time I've worn pants in a long time since March. Thank you for sharing that, Bob. Thanks for inviting me. It's really a pleasure to meet you guys. And maybe, Dave, you could draw a picture of him with no pants. I was just going to say prove it. Guys this show has meant so much to Gilbert and to me.

We've talked about it. We've been doing this podcast since 2014. We always quoting the odd couple chapter and verse. When I found out the anniversary was coming, I got so excited. I'm so glad that I reached out to you guys. We also have to thank Jonathan Tesler for hooking me up with David. Yeah, Jonathan Tesler. The first place.

That's it. Our pal, Jonathan Tesler. This was an absolute treat for us, and I know our fans are gonna just eat it with a spoon. Gilbert and I. Yeah. Thanks for having me. This is one of those shows

I could do an odd couple episode every other week. Or another thing. Well, what's really cool for me, and I think I speak for Dave, but is that people that love him and that he's still got a legacy and it's still alive and we're still laughing. I know that he would really appreciate that.

So we were both, for my part, just thrilled to be here and be able to just celebrate him. He was a great guy and we loved him. Yeah. Likewise. This is a very cool legacy. Thank you. It's an honor to laugh at him. And was a great guy and we loved him. Yeah. Likewise. This is a very cool legacy. Thank you. It's an honor to laugh with him.

And Mom too, she kept us laughing for decades. I mean, both of them, special talents and this show is a tribute and it's in gratitude for all of the laughs and the entertainment that these people have provided. Thank you guys for being a part of it. Yeah, thanks for your laughs tonight. It was fun.

Thank you. A real joy. Gil, you wanna take us out? Once again, I'm Gilbert Gottfried and this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre. And tonight we are closing and saying thank you to Dave closing and saying thank you to Dave Gut-Jak. I told you Frank. Dave, Dave Juskow. Mark Leszek.

Bob. Where do you see Mark? Bob Leszek. Bob, let's check. Oscar Matta socks. And what if I fuck up Klugman? Actually, that might be perfect. Adam Klugman and Dave Kluckman. Thank you.

Thank you, guys. Believe it or not, we're going to go out on something from the Odd Couple album. Put it on in post. Thank you, gentlemen. This was a joy. Thank you. Thank you, friends. Good night, everyone. Thanks a lot. You know, buddy, we've had our ups and downs. We had our fights and our arguments, but we've always snapped back. And I have figured out why. Thanks a lot. If you're ever in a jam, here I am. If you're ever in a mess, S.O.S.

If you ever feel so happy you'll land in jail, I'm your bail. It's friendship, friendship, just a perfect blend-ship When other friendships have been forgot, ours will still be hot Loddle, loddle, loddle, vo-do-de-o Take it, baby If you're ever up a tree, phone to me, take it, babe If you're ever down a well, ring my bell. You heard me well.

Hello. If you ever lost your teeth and you're out to die, borrow mine. It's friendship, friendship. Just a perfect blend-ship. When other friendships have been forgat Ours will still be great La da da da da da, chuck chuck chuck, take it yourself If you ever lose your mind, I'll be kind

I'll bet you will If you ever lose your shirt, I'll be hurt Let me $20 now, will ya? I got a good horse. If you're ever in a mill and get sawed in half, I won't lie, his friendship, friendship, just a perfect blenship. When other friendships go up in smoke, ours will still be oak, lottle, lottle, lottle, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. smoke ours will still be oh if they ever hang you part send a card if they ever cut your throat send a note I'm real if they ever make a cannibal stew of you, invite me too.

It's friendship, friendship, just a perfect friendship, When other friendships have been forget. Ours will still be it, lot-a lot-a lot-a hip hip hip. Ours will still be it, lot-a lot-a lot da, hip hip hip House will still be in La da la da la da, hip hip hip House will still be in La da la da la da, hip hip hip