Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Paula Prentiss and Richard Benjamin Part 1

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

In the first part of a 2-part episode, Gilbert and Frank talk to celebrated actors and longtime Hollywood couple Richard Benjamin and Paula Prentiss about their seven-decade careers in front of (and behind) the camera, co-starring in a groundbreaking sitcom, co-hosting "Saturday Night Live," meeting Stan Laurel and Buster Keaton and working with legendary directors Howard Hawks, Mike Nichols and Billy Wilder. Also, Jack Cassidy plays a superhero, Jack Benny exits "The Sunshine Boys," Paula shares the stage with Hope and Crosby and Richard teams Burt Reynolds and Clint Eastwood. PLUS: Uncle Goopy! "Goodbye, Columbus"! Remembering Jim Hutton! Walter Matthau plays the ponies! And Richard and Paula gush over Gilbert's James Mason impression! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connects ontario.ca please play responsibly what happens when 20 extremely athletic canadians who thrive on competition and won't settle for less than number one find themselves on a team taking on jaw-dropping obstacles all across canada is one thing working together on a team, taking on jaw-dropping obstacles all across Canada is one thing. Working together on a team with some pretty big personalities is another. It's a new season of Canada's Ultimate Challenge, and sparks are going to fly. New episodes Sundays. Watch free on CBC Gem. hi this is gilbert godfrey this is gilbert godfrey's amazing colossal podcast This is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre. We're excited to welcome not one but two terrific guests this week.

Paul Apprentice is a talented Emmy-cat, Last of the Red Hot Lovers, The Stepford Wives, The Parallax View, and Buddy Buddy. Starting an acting career way back at Northwestern University, she'd go on to star in some of the 1960s and 1970s most interesting motion pictures and work with many of the greatest names in popular entertainment, including Steve McQueen, John Wayne, Howard Hawks, Rock Hudson, Jack Lemmon, Kirk Douglas, Warren Beatty, Billy Wilder, Peter O'Toole, Peter Sellers, and Lana Turner, just to name a few. She's also co-star with her equally talented spouse, Richard Benjamin, in the groundbreaking TV series He and She, as well as projects ranging from film, films like Catch-22 and Saturday Night Live.

And speaking of that husband, Richard Benjamin is an Emmy-nominated actor, as well as a director of feature films. You've seen him and enjoyed him in movies such as Goodbye Columbus, Westworld, The Last of Sheila, Diary of a Mad Housewife, The Sunshine Boys, House Called, Love at First Bite, and Deconstructing Harry. And in TV shows like Mad About You, Titus, Ray Donovan, Children's Hospital, and the Buck Henry created series, Quark. and the Buck Henry-created series Quark. He's also celebrated for his outstanding work behind the camera, directing the well-regarded and successful features Racing with the Moon, City Heat, Mermaids, Little Nikita, Mermaids, Little Nikita, Odd the Money Pit, and of course a film we love to talk about on this podcast, My Favorite Year. Frank and I are excited to be speaking to two of the most gifted versatile artist, as well as one of entertainment industry's most enduring and most inspirational

married couples, Paula Prentiss and Richard Benjamin. Wow, that sounds fabulous. Who are these people? I'd like to know them. Now, Paula, my co-host Frank says that you're a Guinea. Yeah, Sicilian. She's half. Half Sicilian.

I'm half English and half Sicilian, yeah. Ragusa. Yeah. Ragusa. What were you telling me? As soon as they signed you over at MGM, they made you get rid of that? They said that's too Italian for the marquee at that time. That was a long time ago.

So Joe Pasternak, my first producer, changed my name to P, a deliteration. Deanna Durbin, Doris Day, he suggested those as a reason to have a deliteration. So Joe Pasternak really named your daughter. Yes, that's true. He'd love that. He would love that.

Last time we were with you, Richard, Gilbert was giving you a hard time about not casting him. Oh, yeah. Yes, I auditioned for My Stepmother Was an Alien. Oh, really? And then I saw it on TV and I thought, I'm not good enough for this. No, no, I mean, I cast Kim Basinger instead. I'm sure you could have done it. I know you could have done it.

You know, we had Kevin Pollack on here yesterday with us, and one of the things that came up was he acted, Kevin co-starred in a movie called Willow with Billy Barty, who I'm sure you remember. Yeah. We like to bring him up because Gilbert famously lost a part. I lost a movie role to Billy Barty. That seems

impossible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I lost to a carnival break, basically. Whenever I was up for something or auditioning for something and they said the agent would always use these euphemisms, they went another way.

Yes. What, they cast a squirrel? What are you talking about and i know i don't you probably lost track of how many auditions you went on because i know i lost where they say to you oh you are the one we were thinking you're the one we wrote this part for you're the only one we want and then they give it to so yeah yeah yeah that especially happens out here in auditioning in new york i found out that they were just you know uh much much more cruel in a way, because I'd come into the audition room with my 8x10 in my hand and my little resume, and usually they say, sorry, there's nothing today.

And on my way out, I would hear this little slit sound, and I wondered what that was. And then one time I opened the door, and it was my resume and 8x10 hitting the trash basket right inside the door i mean they were much tougher in new york i thought that out here wow yeah that's that's like the time gilbert found out he was fired from saturday night live by reading fan mail yes i i was waiting outside the office uh and to out, you know, they had a new producer and they had a table where they used to put the fan letters. And there's some I see a letter addressed to me from some girl from Idaho or something. And I open it up and it says, Dear Gilbert, I'm so sorry about what happened to you.

And that's how I found out. I was bothered. It's nice. Show business is nice, isn't it? Richard and Paula hosted SNL just a couple of months, Gilbert, before you were docking those doorways. Oh. Yeah. Well, you should thank god you missed

i don't know about that i don't know about what was that 1980 you guys hosted together and i was i was emailing richard about it and he said he recalled all of it yeah yeah well paula did the cold opening uh paula uh and you know there's no announcement there's no nothing right uh and they just put her in front of the camera and point uh and she did her rosalyn oh she was ruth ruth yeah correct yeah ruth garter stapleton that's right yeah and she did that and she did it very well but it was like being shot out of a cannon because there's no preparation. There's no nothing. And they just point. But she did a great job. Yeah, we had a wonderful time doing that. I hosted it before that and had a lot of fun.

Yeah. You hosted the one with Rodney where Rodney Dangerfield showed up. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. It was a China syndrome parody. showed up is that right yeah yeah it was a china syndrome parody what oh yes what i liked about the one you guys did together they but they only put you in one sketch together is that right what sketch was that you were a couple that had nothing in common with gilda and belushi until you realized you all shared a love for joey bishop i know it's 40 years ago yeah right and and frank and i were talking earlier and and it seems that you paula like uh yes you immediately you got a career right away and you were like this beautiful movie star. You were acting with legendary actors.

And you, Richard, were basically looking for a job at McDonald's. Well, I actually tried to get a job at Macy's and Gimble's. And a friend of mine went into audition in Macy's to sell mops on the main floor. Wow. And we didn't get it. And I thought, you know, if this is the indicator of what my acting career, I couldn't get a job selling mops in Macy's. And then I did get a job as a section manager at Gimble's. get a job as a section manager at Gimbel's. And I was in there for a couple of months because I couldn't, I was already at Northwestern where I met Paula and I couldn't pay the tuition and stuff.

And so they said, you can't come back until you pay the tuition. So I had to leave and get a job in New York, which I did at Gimbel's. And I worked there for like, you know, I don't know, half a year and got enough money to pay the tuition and get back mainly, well, for two reasons, because Paula was there and also because we had a great acting teacher there. You know, it's funny. You took a job with American Airlines at one point? That was after I graduated, yes. After you graduated. You know, Paula, these. You took a job with American Airlines at one point? That was after I graduated, yes. After you graduated. You know, Paula, these horror stories about auditioning, as Gilbert says,

you couldn't really relate out of the box. Not really. I was just lucky. Very lucky. What was the name of that talent scout? Was it Dudley Wilkinson? Yes, Dudley Wilkinson. Came to Northwestern and just decided you were an it girl, and what happened?

She didn't even want to do the audition. She didn't want to do it. We were supposed to do it together. Well, you didn't want to do it at all, and I made her do it. Sounds like that's right. And our acting teacher, Vina Krause, said, It was in a blizzard in February, a man is coming from MGM

and if anybody wants to sign up on the blackboard up here in the main theater to audition for him and everybody looked and said, no, no, no, no. We're theater people. We don't want anything to do with movies.

And then we went back that night. There was no more space on the blackboard. They had written on the wood frame part of the blackboard. So they all wanted to audition and Paula didn't want to do it. And I said, no, you got to do it. So we did a scene from A Hat Full of Rain for him. And I could see during the the audition he was just trying to look around me to see her and i i tried to move her so he would see me but he would just lean the other way and paula had she actually was wearing a bunch of my clothes. Her hair was in her face. And as we were leaving, Alvina Krauss, this great acting teacher, as Paula was at the door, she said, Paula, turn around, push your hair back, and tell Mr. Wilkinson a little about yourself.

And she did. And then that June, she got a call as we were graduating to come out there and test for where the boys are. And she went out there. I, meanwhile, have gone back to New York. And she called me and she said, well, I think I passed the test. You know, like it was an SAT or something like that. And they signed her. And then we had a period where we broke up,

right? Yes, Paula, well, we broke up because now she was a big movie star and didn't need me anymore. I see. You're right. Is that the truth, Paula? That's so...

No, it's not oh you say that now sure and so my friend and I this guy Jack Johnson who was the first person who told me about her who I went to school with so we're not together

at this point and of course I'm you know hating her and the movie is about to open at radio city musical and my friend and i go there you know what is there six thousand seats in there it's the biggest screen in the world and i'm saying boy i hope this thing is a real bomb you know i hope this thing goes yeah this goes right down that drain and the giant we see the rockettes for a little while you know singing and dancing and stuff and then the movie is about to start this curtain parts the biggest screen you've ever seen in your life the movie starts and i hear

connie francis saying where the boys are and then i see pa Paula and I said oh god she's a movie star this thing is a huge hit I knew in 12 seconds how about that yeah and then go ahead no and then after a while um what Paula why didn't you want it why didn't you want to do the screen test? Why didn't you want to test? I mean, you were relatively new to acting, we should say. Very new. And I had nothing in my background that would have said that I would do that, acting or any of that. Did you go to school for nursing at one point? No, I didn't.

But I did go to a woman's college in Virginia first before I transferred because I thought I wanted to be a doctor. A doctor, excuse me. Yeah, but that was so close. Thank you. She'd be a fabulous surgeon, I think. And you were one of those old time stories of someone discovered, actually discovered. Yeah, yeah. And what was that? old-time stories of someone discovered, actually discovered. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And what was that? Well, I had no idea about this because, as I say, my background wasn't show business at all. I just know I had to go out and do the screen test. And Jim Hutton was great. He's the kid that I worked with. And then we were in the movie together. So I brought my props and things and they told me uh paula you know we have a prop department here so you don't have to bring the chips and you don't have to bring the cokes and you don't have to bring all

that kind of stuff i was of course astounded thrilled it It was very different from my background. In fact, when she got the test, she said, but I have, she was going to do Summerstock with our acting teacher. And she said, I have all my roles already set. I've already learned the part. She was going to play Eleanor Roosevelt in Sunrise at Campobello. And she was deciding, should she be doing that or should she become a movie star? And our acting teacher, who was conscious of what the world was really like, said, Paula, you don't want to pass this up. Wow. Yeah, I was very encouraged. So you went from playing, do I have this right?

There was a part where she played a troll, Richard? Oh, yes. Northwest Act. playing do i have this right there was a part where she played a troll richard oh yes that was that was the first time i laid eyes on her so my friend jack john we lived in this dorm where with the rest of the misfits at northwestern and he had been down watching auditions of the new people she was new because she transferred and they were all up on the stage in the theater auditioning for the acting teacher. And he spotted her and he said, Benjamin, you better get down there. This one's for you. I'm telling you, get down there. And I said, really? You know, there's a soap opera on our TV. Do you think he said, get down there. So I went down and I see this gorgeous creature up on this stage. And because it's, she's auditioning for a troll in Pierre Gint. She's remember girls at that time had those long kind of quilted skirts where she had pulled that

up into this wide cinch belt. So it was tucked, and I saw the longest, most beautiful legs I'd ever seen, and I thought, oh, boy. And then something happened, and she became extremely emotional about something and ran out of the theater and straight up the aisle, and Northwestern is on Lake Michigan, and she ran into Lake Michigan, and a friend of hers ran after

her and the two of them stood in the lake with their skirts pulled all the way up. It looked like a poster for bitter rice or something. And I said, well, you got, she's really gorgeous. She's a bit high strung. And I'll bet she could be great if she could just stay in the theater instead of running into the lake. And that was the first time I laid eyes on her. Paula, what was your initial impression of Richard? I heard you say, was it the first Jewish man from New York? Well, yes. I always was in love with Tony Curtis in the movies.

So I thought, Jewish guy from New York City is what I want. So there he was, sitting in the green room, what we call the green room. And I thought, that's for me. Kismet. Yeah, just perfect. I always thought,

you know, I like that background. From Bernie Schwartz to Dick Benjamin. Yeah, just perfect. I always thought, you know, I like that background. From Bernie Schwartz to Dick Benjamin. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So you go from playing a troll, and in the blink of an eye, you're on a screen in Radio City with George Hamilton and Connie Francis and Frank Gorshin, we have to mention. Oh, fabulous. What can you tell. And Frank Gorshin, we have to mention. Oh, fabulous.

Yeah. What can you tell us about Frank Gorshin? I always love him. Oh, wasn't he wonderful? Well, I only knew him when he was in the movie with us, and I just thought he was divine, perfect timing, perfect comic personality, and really, really sweet, you know. I liked all the people in that movie.

Dolores and I were Catholic, and so was Yvette Mimeo, so we all kind of had a Catholic upbringing. And Connie, too. Right. Connie was Catholic, too. So, anyway, you know, I was just lucky. Frank Gorshin was Connie's boyfriend and Jim was mine

and I don't know, it just worked out. It was really nice. Music by Neil Sedaka. Frank Gorshin. Yeah, Frank Gorshin invented the Kirk Douglas and Burt Langdon. He did it better than anybody. Yeah, he did. Yeah. He did, yeah. You know, Paula,

you also worked with an actor named John MacGyver. Do you remember John MacGyver? I sure do. Okay, I bring it up because Gilbert is the only human being on the planet who does a John MacGyver impersonation. Oh, good. Oh, wonderful.

Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Okay. Everything in this company must be run according to schedule. That's perfect. We will have no slackers here. This is a tight ship, and I am the captain of this ship. It's perfect.

It's rare and perfect. Yeah. Yeah. It's perfect. It's rare and perfect. Yeah. Yeah. It's perfect. Doesn't it sound a little bit like, you know who I mean? Hitchcock. No. He sounded like John McIver.

A little bit. No, I get the Hitchcock thing, too. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little stuffy. A little stuffiness. Yeah. Yeah.

That's right. Yeah. That's from. Thank you. That was great. Man's favorite sport. Man's favorite sport. Yeah. He was in ainess. Yeah, that's right. Thank you. That was great. Man's favorite sport. Man's favorite sport. Yeah, he was in a couple.

And what was John McIver like? Oh, he was divine. The sweetest person. So funny. Really, I was so lucky to work with people who were acquainted with this kind of work, and they all helped me do you know they all helped me uh i guess a woman can't say that nowadays but that's the truth uh well they were all you know part of hawk's uh stock company those guys in there yeah yeah delores hart would go on to become

a nun and then we've seen her we've seen her. We've been there. Oh, yeah. She's lovely. Just lovely. Yeah. Yeah. She looks like. We have to get Dolores.

She'd be great. She'd be great. She'd love it. She'd be great. Yeah, she's great. Oh, you all should. We'll do that. We'll do that. I met her at The View.

She was charming. Isn't she? Yeah, she really is. And Gilbert and I were talking. He thinks, this has come up repeatedly on the show, he thinks the first movie he saw in a movie theater may have been Bachelor in Paradise. Oh, really?

Oh, yeah. We both worked with Loner Turner. That's a rare thing, too. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. I think you both worked with Myrna Loy. Dick did, definitely.

Paula, you didn't, did you? No, I didn't. No, she's in a movie. She's listed in a movie with you, Paula. Which one? Oh, now I have to dig it out. No, that's okay. That's okay.

Now, Bob Hope was in Bachelor. Oh, yeah. He was great. And see, this was when Bob Hope was already in movies becoming the later Bob. Yes. Like he was no longer the funny Bob Hope. He was that kind of Bob Hope. But that was funny to me.

Yeah, you could see him reading the cue cards in the movies. I like that. When Paula was flown to London for a royal premiere of Bachelor in Paradise. And I think it was for Princess Margaret or something. Anyway, this place was packed. And I'm backstage because they sent me, too. Because actually they sent me because we just got married. We got married, so they'd send us. They wouldn't send me unless we got married, so we did.

You got a free honeymoon. Yes, free trip, and yeah. So I'm backstage, and out on the stage are Hope and Crosby. Crosby has come along with Hope, and they've got straw hats and canes, and they're out there singing and dancing, patter, jokes, they're killing them out there. They're just killing them.

And the place is roaring and applauding and standing up. And then they come off and they're full of sweat. And then people are yelling for them and they go back out there for another 15 minutes of killing them. And the place has gone crazy. And then they come off and Hope says to Paula, all right, kid, they're all yours.

Go get them. That's right. Now he's... Oh, my God. Who's he thinking he's talking to, Judy Garland? Judy Garland. Who is it, Sophie Tucker? What is he, what?

Sophie Tucker. It's Paula from Houston, you know, who's in the movies. And so Paula turns to me and said, what should I do? I said, just say hello and I'm glad to be here. And she did and they loved her. Wow. I had some lucky, lucky things happen. Paula, a TV movie called The Couple Takes a Wife.

Oh, yes. With Bill bixby right and larry storch and robert goulet and according to my sources myrna loy was in it oh that could be maybe maybe yeah that's right maybe you didn't have any scenes with her what was the deal with the studio with mgm trying to make you and j Hutton kind of into a, if you will, what, a modern-day Myrna Loy and William Powell? Yes, that was the deal. We were both tall. We were the tallest people practically under contract, I think. So they had that idea for sure. And Richard Thorpe, who was directing some of those pictures,

actually directed a Thin Man movie. Yeah, he might have. He directed some scenes in Gone with the Wind. Yes, he directed Silence. Yeah, yeah. Isn't that something? Yeah. And he moved.

His thing was how fast he moved. I mean, they made that picture in 16 days. Wow. Yeah. Now, there was a period of time when Burt Reynolds, people thought Burt Reynolds was dying. There was a rumor he had AIDS. He was just, his health was totally, completely falling apart. And he found out, if this is true, from a movie he did that you directed with Clint Eastwood.

Oh, you're talking about the chair accident. Yeah. Yes. He fell off the makeup chair. Yeah. And he hit his jaw. And that led to that, what do you call it, a thing, you know, that tinnitus or something? Tinnitus.

Yeah, tinnitus. Yeah, that really affected him. In fact, we had shot that opening scene with the two of them in this big fight scene, and he was just, you know, up for everything, and the two of them were just great together. But that affected him. That actually affected him. I like that picture, City Heat. I just rewatched it.

Oh, yeah. I heard they had to rebuild his jaw. Well, he was out a few days, I think. But he came back just trying to get through it all, which he did. And I think that may have been later that they had to do something. But it was such a shame. He was just on those makeup chairs are high. And something happened that it just tipped over and stuff.

And it was such a shame because we were really having a good time. And he was such a good fellow. He was so generous to our kids and everything. He was just a lovely person. He was so generous to our kids and everything. He was just a lovely person. Good picture, Richard. I know you replaced Blake Edwards on that film. That's right. Yeah.

And that was, you know, I just made my first movie. And, oh, I made my second movie, Racing with the Moon. Another good one. Oh, thank you. And my agent, Phil Gersh, called and he said, well, they would like Bert and Clint would like to see you. And I said, would that be Bert Reynolds and Clint Eastwood? Is that who we're talking about? Yeah. So I couldn't, you know, not do that because of the idea of these, you know, at that time, they were movie legends and stuff like that. And I learned a lot from Clint, I have to say, a lot. I'd like to see all those great character actors, too, in there.

Like, you know, like Richard Roundtree. Oh, yeah. Wonderful. And Rip, the late Rip Torn. And Rip. Yeah, Rip. Yeah, just great. And your old friend Hamilton Camp showing up in a little bit in the garage scene.

And Paula, you worked with Peter Sellers, and I've heard various stories about Peter Sellers. All true. Yeah, okay, tell us about him. He was a piece of cake. No, he wasn't,

but he was very, very particular. And he was just as interesting as each one of the characters that he's ever portrayed. We've heard people say that one of the quirks of his personality, and you'll know where I'm going with this, Gilbert. It's come up. You want to finish my thought? Because I know you're thinking this. Oh, yeah. If he wasn't doing a character, he didn't exist.

Well, an actor can get to that point, I think, and perhaps that was who he was, the person who didn't exist until he had a character because he was right on with every single notion of what he was doing. Yeah. You know, he was doing. Yeah. You know? He was very particular. Very particular.

Temperamental. I heard Peter Sellers would watch himself after he did a scene and talk about it in third person. Really? And he'd go, oh, look what that idiot just did. He tripped over the couch and fell on the floor. Can you believe what he did? Amazing, yeah.

He certainly was unique. Did he see you? Who? Your husband. Is he out there too? Didn't you see him? No. No.

What am I going to do? Listen. Listen. Did you or did you not see your husband out there? No, I didn't see him. Didn't you? What the hell is the idea of yelling his name at me like that? I'm sure of it now.

It's exactly the sort of thing Paul would think of. Little girl detectives that nobody would suspect. That's the nastiest thing I ever heard of, employing innocent little children to get the goods on your own wife. And the unfair thing about it is I haven't done anything, not one single pleasant thing, unless you want to call it listening to music or something. Imagine, imagine being busted in on by a couple little punks like that.

Once a man gets it into his head that his wife's been in another man's apartment... I mean, even in broad daylight, wild horses wouldn't interest him in the truth. No matter what I say to him... No matter what I say, he'll put the most sordid construction possible on it... He'll go absolutely stark raving mad. I know it. Yeah? How big is he?

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Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connects ontario.ca please play responsibly richard you made a movie uh kind of about sid caesar as well as other people they they've said that about sid caesar too that he that he had to find a character yeah you would see how kind of uncomfortable he was when he was just kind of introducing something and he'd have a little cough or something until he was doing one of those sketches. But we got to know him later after I made My Favorite Year, actually, when he was not well. But we would go up to his house, and he was in bed there,

but his mind was tremendously sharp. And thrill of all thrills, I could do with him those sketches, like the This Is Your Life sketch. Oh, Uncle Goopy. Uncle Goopy when he was, when Howie Morris was attached to his leg. Sure.

And I could do all that with him. And he came right back. Wow. He remembered all of it. So, yeah, I was in high school and my friend and I, on Sunday, we would get on the phone and go over all the sketches that they did Saturday night. And, you know, that show was an hour and a half. And those sketches were long and they were live, you know, extraordinary. So, you know, the thing about him sleeping in a chair and that was it for him, you know, taking a tremendous

emotional toll on him, which we got into in the movie I did with Nathan Lane, Laughter on the 23rd Floor. Yeah, yeah, very good. And there's a story that Sid Caesar was speaking somewhere, and he was getting all mixed up. He was just, you know, stumbling over what he was saying. And Mel Brooks was in the audience and Mel Brooks screamed out, say it in German. And he fell into his mock German and he just, you know, it just blew up.

Yeah, he did that professor. Yeah. Yeah. We jump all over the place here through time, as you guys see. But I do want to ask Paul about working with the legendary Howard Hawks. And Paul, an interesting quote, he said, she could be a big comedy star. I don't know what's the matter. Can you can you can you enlighten us?

I think he was absolutely right. Who knew what was the matter? That's right. You were sort of, in Man's Favorite Sport, you were sort of in the Doris Day role. Uh-huh, that kind of role. Yeah. But, you know, for my money, a more interesting, more dynamic Doris Day. But you guys had nice chemistry, you and Hudson.

Yeah. Oh oh he was great uh dick's mother came to visit us and he asked us all over for lunch one day it was very thrilling you know for all of us including her yeah he was a lovely guy but and and paula and they had some overlap oh they paula and and rock were doing a scene, and they finished one angle of it or something, and the script supervisor came over and said, well, you know, they're not matching some of the—he said, I don't want to hear it. Hawk said, leave them alone. If they overlap, they say whatever they want to say.

That's, you know, I don't want to hear. Yeah. See how generous he was. Yeah. Wow. And he also did that thing, which he, I think he did in, might've been in, what was it? Bringing up baby or something. Anyway, they were about to kiss Rock and Paula. And before it, tell me if I'm wrong, hawks came up to you and said afterwards tell him it was no good right that's right yeah and that's in another movie of his and rock didn't know she was going to say that um so they have this big kiss and she says well that wasn't very good or something like that and for rock's reaction but he used things from other movies like trains crashing into each other and stuff like that.

Stealing from himself. Yeah. Steal from the best. You're running around in that wetsuit. It's a fun movie of its type. You know, Paula, you look like you're having a good time. Oh, I did.

I had a really good time, yeah. I was thrilled. When her agent said Howard Hawks wants to see her, I couldn't, you know, I said, whoa. Yeah. And both of you worked with Walter Matthews. Yeah. and said Howard Hawks wants to see her, I couldn't, you know, I said, whoa. And both of you worked with Walter Matthews. Yeah.

Tell us about him. Walter was the best. I mean, Walter and I did house calls. So we're surgeons, right? So I say to Walter, we've got to go see an operation. He said, what for? So I said, we're operating on this person. We have scalpels in our hands. We should see, you know, so we know what it's like and everything. And he said, wait a minute. He said, I'm Walter Matthau. Do you think that these people are going to think I became a doctor to be in this movie?

So I said, no. I said, we have to go. He said, all right, all right. So he had a doctor that he knew, which was not far from Hollywood Park. So he said, all right, we're going down there, and they're going to let us in for an operation. So we suit up. You know, we look like doctors. And at the last minute, he's on the phone, and he's talking on the phone, and he keeps motion.

He said, I can't. You go ahead. You go ahead. So I go in there, and I'm looking over, and they're doing an angiogram on a guy, and they're about to make a cut into him to put this thing in. They start to make the cut. And the next thing I know, I'm looking at linoleum. I'm face down on the floor.

And a nurse comes over and she turns me over and she said, listen, are you okay? I said, yeah. She says, was that your first opening? So I don't, you know, in a haze, I think, well, I opened on Broadway in a play. So she said, no, no, no. You'd never seen that before. I said, no. Oh, okay.

She sat me up on a stool, and she she said, now we're going to the closing. I'm not sure you should be looking at that. I said, okay. I can't get up. My legs are shaking. They put me in a wheelchair and wheel me out of the operating room. And there's Walter.

And he said, what the hell happened to you? So I said, well, I looked at something I shouldn't have looked at and he's and i said where were you he said well i was on the phone while you were passing out i just made three thousand dollars at hollywood park because he had bet on a couple of races while i was in there i heard i don't know who told us this maybe maybe it was Charlie, maybe it was Walter's son, that there were horse tips on the back of the program at his memorial service? Or was the week's football picks? Could be.

Yeah, as a way of honoring him? Yeah, that could be. And of course you did the Sunshine Boys. Well, they had the best time. Gilbert and I, because Benny was up for that part and then became too ill to do it. He was up for George Burns' part. Yeah, did you meet Jack? I know you met Keaton.

You told us last time you met Keaton and Stan Laurel. Did you meet Jack Benny, too? No, no, he had become ill by that time. Oh, too bad. Yeah, it was too bad. There is a screen test. It's silent for some reason it's on youtube yeah oh it is yeah yeah yeah um and uh but then you know it's it's interesting his best friend then goes and plays the part yeah just as a courtesy the man was one of the biggest stars

involved but he deserves that one reading. Yet the man can't work. Why doesn't he retire? Mr. Wolsk, don't do this to me. Please, please, I'll pay you to let him read. Once. Let him read through it and that's it. I'd be goddamned if I listened.

Here. Here, Uncle Willie, read it from this. I don't need it. I remember the line. Read it. Get out, Ben. I got my own copy. Where is it?

Huh? Where did I put it? Here, had it. And don't stop. Just read it through once and don't stop, okay? You don't have to tell me I'm a professional.

I'm in this business 57 years. Sends me to a garage. Okay, Mr. Clark. I hate them. I hate chumpies, potato chips, frumpies. I hate them. I hate frunchies, potato chips so much. Frumpies!

Frunkies, potato chips. Frumpies! Frumpies! Can't you just say frumpies. Frumpies, be safe. Frumpies, frumpies. Can't you just say frumpies? If it was funny, I would say it. Going back, and we are jumping around, as I said, I want to go back to Paul is a movie star. She's on the big screen working with Peter Sellers and Rock Hudson and Howard Hawks. with Peter Sellers and Rock Hudson and Howard Hawks,

you're going into the movie, into where the boys are hoping the thing is a flop until realizing that she's a star. Yep. But at some point, we talked about pounding the pavement, at some point it starts to pay off for you because you get Barefoot in the Park. And then The Odd Couple, and then The Touring Company, The Odd Couple with Dan Daly.

Yeah. And then they asked me to direct Barefoot in London, which I did. And then Neil put me in Star Spangled Girl with Tony Perkins and Connie Stevens on Broadway. Right. And then asked me to direct Laughter on the 23rd Floor and a remake of Goodbye Girl. So, yeah, I've always said, when someone says, don't be nervous for an audition, I mean, are you crazy? My life changed for a 10-minute audition

for Mike Nichols and Neil Simon by just going in there and auditioning. And luck, you know, luck is big thing. Thanks to your friend at Northwestern who told you about the audition. Penny, Penny Fuller. Penny Fuller. My agent knew nothing about it, yeah. What happened with Nichols?

I mean, I heard you telling Kevin Pollack that he just, he underreacted when you auditioned. Not, first, I'm doing it. I'm hearing somebody laugh that I think was him because I recognize from the records. Oh, wow. I had never met him, you know, but the voice, he's out in the dark. I can't see him. And I hear laughter, you know, a couple of laughs and more laughs and things like that.

And then Penny and I finish. And then he comes down the center aisle. I think it was the Plymouth Theater. And kind of coming down. And he said, well, that was so okay. Everything's fine. He said, it's fine. And I said, uh-huh.

So that'll be fine. He said, it's fine. And I said, uh-huh. So that'll be fine. And I have to go somewhere and then I'm going to come back and then it'll be fine. And I said, you know, I thought no one's ever, they say, thanks very much, you know, or, you know, well, you're not quite right. Or as Gilbert says, fabulous. You know, you were fabulous. Nothing. It's fine. It's fine.

Not you're fine, but it's fine. And then I come out of the theater and my agent's in the back of the lobby. He said, you got it. I said, what? When did that happen? But that was Mike, you know. I love that. And Paula, what was it like, what was Kirk Douglas like?

Oh, he was fabulous. I broke my ankle in that movie, and I remember him carrying me uphill, and from some, we had gone to a party or something that the cast was invited to. Uphill to some mansion that was there. He was wonderful. Just wonderful. And, oh, yeah, I always admired him. Was Preminger as much of a hellion as they said he was?

Not to me. No, huh? Not to me. Treated you well. Kind of to Tom, yeah. You wound up working with Preminger and Billy Wilder. Yes, I was not fortunate. Who knew?

I didn't even know who they were. That happened on the street in Beverly Hills. Oh, yeah. We were walking on the street, and there was Billy Wilder across the street, and he yelled across the, Paula, Paula, you want to be in a movie? And I said, it's Billy Wilder. Oh, my God. That's how she got that.

Paula, you've been in the right place at the right time a lot. I have. That's right. So getting the chronology of this, Richard, you do Barefoot in the Park. You do that for a while. Then you go on tour with Dan Daly and you're doing The Odd Couple. Then I assume you come back to New York and you get Star Spangled Girl. In between there, they asked me to direct Barefoot in London.

And you did that? Yeah. And then Neil asked me to do Star Spangled Girl. And then Star Spangled Girl. And then Star Spangled Girl. And Paul is still making pictures. She's in Europe. Well, she is. She's making pictures.

But before that, before Star Spangled Girl, CBS wanted to make a TV series with her. And she said, well, I'd only do that with my husband. You can tell we're back together again. How nice of her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they say, well, go and meet Leonard Stern. He's got a script. And Paul and I went to meet him out here. And it was called He and She and It. And because it was just a half hour pilot, we read it

on the way to the elevator. And we said, this thing is really good. You know, we weren't sure we wanted to do TV and all of that kind of stuff, you know. And but we said, this thing is really good. So we go ahead and say yes. So we made the pilot right before Star Spangled Girl. So. Okay. I got, so I got the timing now. Yeah. Yeah. So we're about to do the CBS commits and everything and Hamilton is in it and Ken Mars and everything. And then right before starting to shoot the pilot, oh, before that, Leonard got a call from CBS and they said, have you made that deal with Paul Apprentice? And they said, yeah. And what about that guy that she's with?

Have you made that deal? So he said, yeah, yeah. And they said, is he an actor? So Leonard said, well, we hope so, and I think we'll find out here, you know. Well, we hope so, and I think we'll find out here, you know. So then we made the pilot, and then the contract I had on Star Spangled Girl was I would, of course, stay with the play, you know, forever, unless the pilot sold, and that was the deal.

So then seven months into Star Spangled Girl, it did sell. And so then I left the show, and then we did the show. And as Frank always says says we jump around so jumping back to stan laurel and buster keaton what do you remember about the two of them well paula knew on because i i knew who buster keaton was, but I didn't know everything that I should have known. When Paula was making Where the Boys Are, George Wells, who wrote it, had a boat here, and he asked us to come, and we were straight out of school. We don't know anything about anything.

And on his boat is Buster Keaton. And here's this man, and i kind of know not like we all know now and should know uh that this genius is on this boat um so that was just like a you remember meeting him on there yeah um and the other time which i think i've said was when my friend did a thesis at UCLA on Laurel and Hardy. And they had Laurel and his wife were in an apartment in Santa Monica, Ocean Avenue, which I think Jerry Lewis had taken care of that. That's what they said. Yeah, that's what I, yeah.

And he said to me, I'm going up for a last interview with Stan Laurel. Would you like to come? I said, well, yeah, I would like to come. And so we go there and there's, you know, a low apartment building with buttons on an income, you know, an intercom at the bottom of the where you go in. to come at the bottom of the, where you go in, and on the little paper tab, it said S. Laurel, and we pushed the button, and you hear this voice that, yes, and always said, it's Jerry Ziesmer, and it's my, I brought a friend, come right up, I mean, you know, and we're hearing this over this little tinny thing, and when we get up there, he's there with his wife. And in the middle of the room is a trunk. And with S and L, you know, kind of intertwined on the trunk. I mean, he's ready to go.

Wow. That trunk is in the middle of the room. And, you know, it's like if he gets a call, he's going. How about that, Gil? Now, you had said last time your uncle was in vaudeville, Joe Browning. Joe Browning. And George Burns knew him. Did you mention him to Stan?

No. No, I didn't. I didn't think of that at that time because I didn't realize all of that until I was with George Burns, you know. But I didn't know. But those guys, you know, what, you know, three or four shows a day, seven days a week, you know. I mean, they were on stage more than they were in real life. And they knew those audiences backwards and forwards.

So here's Stan Laurel. Ollie's been gone for years yes he's living in an apartment on the beach Gilbert and he's got his trunk ready to go for the when the call comes in yeah yeah my uncle had the same thing my uncle had the same thing and they lived at the beacon hotel and we we went up there Paula met them and met them. And his trunk was the same thing. JB, you know, ready to go. They're ready to go. That's fantastic. Love that old show business.

About he and she, and this is an interesting thing because Gilbert and I were talking. A show that's ahead of its time. We called it groundbreaking in the intro, and it was. By the way, Leonard Stern's name comes up a lot on on this show too probably most famous for developing uh running get smart yeah yeah for cbs we had john shuck here a couple of weeks ago oh yeah and leonard leonard stern uh worked with him a lot but you guys you guys had your reservations when you saw what your lead-in was on CBS? That gave you pause. The two top shows on CBS, number one and two, were Beverly Hillbillies and Green Acres.

And so our show was on Wednesday night at 9.30, I think it was 9.30, Beverly Hillbillies, 8.30, Green Acres, Green Acres. We're watching our first show about to go on the air, and at the end of Green Acres, a pig is dancing. And I'm saying... Arnold Zippel. I said, our lead-in is the number two show in this country, but it's on a farm, and there's a pig dancing. And then it's, hi, Paula and Dick, you know, and urban couple. So, yeah, I had worries, and, you know, because our ratings were not, we had the best lead-ins you could possibly ever have. And in those days, there were three networks, and that was it.

And CBS was known as the Tiffany Network. And if you didn't hold the ratings like those two shows, today our ratings would keep us on for centuries. But then we fell off, you know. And so I think we saw the handwriting on the wall. Well, the rural purge had yet to happen. That's right. When Fred Silverman came in and got rid of, as they say,

every show that had a tree in it. Yeah, and what was the famous variety headline? Something like, you know, NBC. Or hit, pick know, NBC. Yeah, Nick Hicks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you going to do your James Mason?

Oh, go ahead, Gil. He's been waiting for that. I've been waiting. We've been waiting. Yes, from this moment on, you'll have no recollection of Leo Farnsworth or Joe Pendleton. It's your destiny, Joe.

Oh, this is great. This is great. How about a little bit of From a Star is Born, Gil? Yes. Congratulations, my dear. I seem to have made it just in time, didn't I? I had a speech I had in my head, but it seems to have left. But I know most of you want a first name.

This is why we we being so funny? I need a job. Yes, that's it. That's my speech. I need a job. It doesn't have to be drama. I could do comedy as well. That is great.

Great. Esther Blodgett. What do you think, Richard? Well, knowing him and working with him, it's brilliant. Just brilliant. We'll talk about Last of Sheol in a minute, but I did want to ask about he and she. You were the first couple to occupy a double bed on television? I believe so.

Yeah, I believe so. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. On television? I believe so. Yeah, I believe so.

Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. You know, it's interesting, too, because the show is ahead of its time. There was an article written about it recently, and it really, it's 67, but it really might as well, the show is so hip for its time, it might as well be 1972 or 1973. Yeah. it might as well be 1972 or 1973. And Alan Burns, who was one of the writers,

I think borrowed again, talking about someone borrowing from himself, the Ted Baxter character on the Mary Tyler Moore show really is the Jack Cassidy character from He and She. Yeah. The Jet Man. Jet Man, yeah. That's why the show originally was called He and She and It. And CBS said, what's the It?

And Leonard said, it's where they live. It's the house they live in. And they said, well, we think it's Jack Cassidy. I think people are going to think the It is Jack Cassidy's character. So you can't have that. So that's why it became just he and she. They're all on YouTube. I will tell our listeners to go find them.

I mean, they're charming. And they hold up well. I mean, it's been 50, almost more than 50 years, 53 years, 54 years. It's funny. Yeah, we get people writing to us and stuff like that saying saying things like that they're smart and the cast is great yeah great cast and now you you starred in a film right around the time of the graduate and it was similar to the graduate and that was uh goodbye columbus thanks to paula who told him to read the book

thanks to paula who told him to read the book that's right yeah yeah we were driving back after our show was canceled and we were driving back across the country and she said you know there's this book and i said i don't read any books i don't want to read any damn book so i got i got some tv watching to do. So she said, okay. So we get back, and I get a call, and my agent's saying, well, they're casting, they're doing a movie of Goodbye Columbus, and they're looking for someone. I said to Paula, where's that book? And I went in and auditioned.

Well, I didn't audition. I just sat with Larry Pierce and Stanley Jaffe for hours and talked my way into it. And that sea again, you know, I hated it when our show went off. We got a call from Mike Dan, who, by the way, I made a movie written by his daughter. Mermaids. Mermaids, yes. Oh, wow. Yeah. I didn't know that was Mike Dan's daughter.

Yes. And he called and said, Patty Dan, right? Yes. Patty Dan. Patty Dan, right? Yes. Patty Dan. But when we got a call from him, he was head of CBS Entertainment and stuff.

And he said, well, Dick, he and she is one of the best shows we've ever had on air at CBS. And we're canceling it. And I said, thank you. And I hung up and I said, Paul, our show was canceled and I think I thanked him. And that's how we found out. But the thing, first we didn't, I didn't want to do any TV. Now we're doing it and I hope it goes on forever. We're having such a good time, and we're loving the idea of doing these little plays every Friday. But if that show hadn't been canceled, there'd be no Goodbye Columbus. That's interesting. Because at that time, people were not crossing over from TV into movies.

Very rarely. Steve McQueen and Eastwood and very few others. There were a few, yeah. But it was rare. Rare. I remember, this is stuck in my mind, the theme song to Goodbye Columbus was by the Association. Right, yeah. Yes.

Got to say hello, it's the... Oh, wait. Got to say hello, it's a lucky day. That's amazing. That's amazing. Kiss the moon goodbye and we're on our way.

I got to... Oh, I can't touch the sun and run uh it's a lucky day goodbye oh hello life goodbye columbus i got a feeling that you're gonna hear from us uh you're we i got a feeling that we're going to get a surprise. Does anybody on this earth know that besides you? No, he's the only one. Yeah. He's the only one. Oh, heavens. Got to say hello, it's a lucky day.

So we're going to stop right there on Richard's incredulous reaction to Gilbert, knowing all the lyrics from the Goodbye Columbus theme. Of course, Gilbert, true to form there. So stay tuned for part two next week. There's so many goodies here. And this conversation with Richard and Paula was so wonderful and so in-depth that we made it a two-parter. And a lot of goodies next week. We get into their sitcom, He and She, which was very ahead of its time.

We got a little Captain Nice conversation going on. That show co-starred Paul's sister, Anne Prentiss. And a little bit about Bill Macy, of course, the late, great Bill Macy, From My Favorite Year, which Richard directed, a little bit about the original Westworld, some good stuff there, a great Mel Brooks story,

all kinds of goodies. So we hope you guys will come back for the fantastic conclusion of our interview with Richard Benjamin and Paula Prentiss. Part two next week. Surprise! Got that look in our eyes It's a lucky day Goodbye Columbus

I got a feeling that you're gonna hear from us You're gonna know that we've taken the world by surprise Surprise! Got that look in our eyes It's a lucky day Yeah It's a lucky day, yeah. Good-bye, good-bye, good-bye, good-bye. I'm going to die. by Aristotle Acevedo. Social media production by Greg Baer, Josh Chambers, Michelle Manninen,

and Dino Corserpio. Website supervision by John Bradley Seals. Special thanks to Land Romo, Jack Vaughn, Daniel Spaventa, and Stephen Varley.