Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Remembering Joe Flaherty w/ Dick Blasucci and Paul Flaherty

Episode Date: July 29, 2025

Frank is joined by Emmy-winning writer-producer Dick Blasucci ("Mad TV," "The Larry Sanders Show") and Emmy-winning writer-director Paul Flaherty ("Clifford," "Who's Harry Crumb?") for a loving tribute to the life and career of the late "SCTV" stalwart Joe Flaherty. In this episode, Dick and Paul discuss Joe's passion for classic cinema, his rise from Second City stage manager to performer, his repertoire of celebrity impressions and the (rumored) origins of Count Floyd, Vic Hedges and Guy Caballero. Also, Dick remembers Rip Torn, Paul tangles with Burt Reynolds, John Candy dines with Larry Fine's cousin and George Burns tries (unsuccessfully) to butter a bagel. PLUS: Brother Theodore! "Maudlin's Eleven"! "Morton & Hayes"! Paul jams with Ray Charles! And Joe pays his respects to the legendary Roberto Clemente! Subscribe now on  Apple ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fun-for-all-ages-with-frank-santopadre/id1824012922⁠ Spotify ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/18EQJNDwlYMUSh2uXD6Mu6?si=97966f6f8c474bc9⁠ Amazon ⁠https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/13b5ed88-d28d-4f0c-a65e-8b32eecd80f6/fun-for-all-ages-with-frank-santopadre⁠ YouTube ⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgvlbF41NLLPvsrcZ9XIsYKkH_HvUXHSG⁠ iHeart ⁠https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-fun-for-all-ages-with-fran-283612643/⁠ TuneIn ⁠http://tun.in/pxOWO Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why just survive back to school when you can thrive by creating a space that does it all for you, no matter the size. Whether you're taking over your parents' basement or moving to campus, IKEA has hundreds of design ideas and affordable options to complement any budget. After all, you're in your small space era. It's time to own it. Shop now at IKEA.ca. Shop now at IKEA.ca. Probably. We'll start with one single tier, just $5 monthly, so for the cost of a cup of coffee a month, you can keep a struggling host off the streets and in the studio where, let's face it, I belong. Think of it as joining the fan club you always wanted to join as a kid, but instead of a decoder ring, you're getting a logo sticker and a personalized note from me, an on-air thank you by name, and the opportunity to submit a question for our illustrious guest or panel. And you'll also get the warm fuzzy feeling

of knowing you're keeping the laughs and the content coming. And hey, if you enjoy the content but you don't want to support it, listen, that's fine too. I'll I'll just be over here creating in the dark, alone with nothing but ambition and crippling debt. So join us, support the show on Patreon, and remember, if laughter is the best medicine, then this podcast is a walk-in clinic with a low $5 copay. Oh

Saturday night kids time for another monster-chiller horror theater. Ooh! Ha ha ha! Hey guys, it's Frank Centipandre and this is Fun for All Ages, the podcast for pop culture obsessives and this week's obsession is the classic comedy series, SCTV, but specifically the career of the late great actor and writer Joe Flaherty. Here to celebrate Joe and to talk about his remarkable talent and his legacy are two long-time collaborators and partners in crime. Dick Plasucci is an Emmy-winning writer and producer of some of the smartest and funniest television shows of the last 40 years, including SCTV. The Larry Sanders Show, The Tracy Ullman Show, Muppets Tonight, MADtv and The Simpsons. some of the smartest and funniest television shows of the last 40 years, including SCTV. The Larry Sanders Show, the Tracy Ullman Show, Muppets Tonight, MADtv, and The Simpsons. He's also written memorable primetime specials, including Andrea Martin Together Again, I'm Martin Short Goes Hollywood, that's a favorite, and Billy Crystal Don't Get Me Started.

He was also a writer and producer on two shows that I was particularly fond of, Morton and Haze, which we'll talk about later, and a show he co-created, Phenom. Yeah. Paul Flaherty, which we'll also talk about later. Paul Flaherty is also an Emmy-winning writer, producer, and a director whose work spans six decades. He was a staff writer for several seasons of SCTV, as well as Muppets Tonight, The Tracy Elman Show,

and The Martin Short Show. He was also a producer of the insanely funny Primetime Glick, and he directed numerous sketches and film parodies on SCTV, as well as the feature films 18 Again, The John Candy Star Who's Harry Crumb, and the much-loved comedy classic Clifford. And if you haven't figured it out by now, he also happens to be the brother of Guy Caballero and Sammy Mudlin himself. Welcome gents. Hey, well, thank you very much for having me. Thank you, Frank. Of course. Good to talk to you. And Paul. You're six, you're six decades into this. Well, if you add him up,

we're counting the 70s when he worked for Mr. Rogers. We're counting the 70s when he worked for Mr. Rogers. How did you know? Oh, boy, you know everything. Okay. I dig, buddy. I dig. Yeah. Let me, let me just give the listeners a quick backstory here that you and

Joe were booked on the old show with Gilbert back in 2022. We were going to do that, the four of us, but that, that in the spring of 2022 and Gilbert took a turn for the worst sadly. And, and that was that. And obviously, we lost Joe two years later. But here we are three years after the initial booking. So I have to thank you for wanting to come back and do this.

And we're remembering Joe. Which brings me to the first question, which, before we get to Joe, how did you guys become writing partners? You remember that Paul? We had known each other for a while. Dickie was in the cast with Joe in a short-lived iteration of Second City in Pasadena. And I was the pianist, the accompanist. And that's how Dickie and I really got to know each other.

And then somehow we just decided to start writing together. Do you remember, Dickie? Yes, we decided to sit down because we had common sensibilities and we were always laughing and that. So we decided to sit down and see had common sensibilities and we were always laughing and that. So we decided to sit down and see if we could write a screenplay and that's what we did. And we were very diligent about it. I mean, we worked almost every day or as much as we could

to get some stuff done. And we wrote this 130 or 40 page script. It was really long. And it was called Toast of the Town. And we gave it to Harold Ramis to look at it. And Harold really liked it. And he gave it to Ivan Reitman to look at. And Ivan Reitman got confused and said, is this a Martin and Lewis film? That's what he said. He said, what am I looking at? And then Harold sent it to Dave Thomas because SCTV had shut down for a season and they were getting ready to start up again and Dave read the script.

And I remember, Paul, we were sensitive a little bit about Joe. I mean, Joe kind of stayed out of it, actually. As I read- Yeah, I was worried about nepotism. And I think he just said, Dave, you make the decision on it. And Dave read the script and liked it. So I think we had, did we not get an HBO writing job before? Yes, we did. We did.

With Mickey Kelly. Yeah, Bill Murray's ex. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, Bill Murray's ex, yes. Yeah, and we wrote this half hour special for HBO, which I thought had some really funny stuff in it. Yeah, yeah. This is the script that you guys gave Ramis Toast to the Town. Yeah. In the 1940s, this is why Ivan Ryman said, what is this, a Martin and Lewis film?

I see, okay. It took place in the 40s. It was a down and out songwriter, right? And he gets involved with the mob. It's basically what the Woody Allen movie was. Yeah, but what's over Broadway, it sounds a little bit like. This predated the Woody Allen. And it was gangsters taking over or trying to take over Broadway.

And so, go ahead. And I've been right when it wasn't that far off in terms of the tone of it. It got broad, but we just, it was just a very freewheeling approach to it. But we met every day and it was a lot of fun. Yes, it was. That period of writing with Dick at his apartment

back in LA. Yeah, Fairfax apartment. Was a great memory for you. It was just so much fun. Yeah, and we were just doing, we just wanted to make ourselves laugh and see if we could just write comedy, basically. It's always the best.

That's always the best thing about writing comedy with a partner, because you have somebody. Yes. You know you're not in the dark. There's somebody else there to bounce on. Right. And we realized that we complemented each other on a lot of things, too, because, you know, there were just different things that, I mean, we had the same sensibilities in terms of comedy. But Paul, your reference level was much higher than mine

in terms of, the same with Joe. I was added down as a note actually, that you and Joe had such a high reference level of films, of foreign films, of art, of, you know, all of that stuff that we kind of used. Well, that's what Joe and I did. We were professional bums back in the 70s. Can I ask you about those days?

We we watched old movies on TV obsessively and and we went to the movies. We lived movies all the time. What was the local we used to ask this Gilbert and I used to ask this on the old show all the time. What was the local theater we used to ask this, Gilbert and I used to ask this on the old show all the time. What was the local theater? What was the local hangout there? Mine was the Wheaton Theater. It's funny you mention that,

because I spent the last week trying to pick the dates of the movies of what theaters I watched it in, because I grew up in a little suburban town in west of Chicago. But for me, it was usually just one theater. Well, when Joe and I were kids, our theater was the Bellmar in the Homewood area of Pittsburgh.

But then we moved to Squirrel Hill, and then it became the Manor Theater. There was actually a bunch of theaters that we would go to. But yeah, lots of watching, lots of watching movies on TV. But we all had a shared respect for the Stooges and all of that kind of thing. Mark's Brothers. Oh yeah. Of Mark's Brothers.

Joe hated Jerry Lewis and Marty, Gene and I were huge fans of Jerry. Paul, you were kind of on the fence with them. No, I liked Jerry Lewis. But Joe just despised them. I know. And Martin, I couldn't understand it because I was just a giant fan of them.

Well, there's Martin and Lewis Jerry, and then there's post Martin and Lewis Jerry. They're two different animals. Yeah, but there's good and bad both though, until it got into crazy Jerry. Yeah. But I used to say to Joe, you should watch his movies again

because there's always at least one hysterically funny sequence in those movies. Right. So in those days, Paul, Joe was initially attracted to acting, I know dramatic acting at first, and you to music? Yes, initially. And then, then we saw Lawrence of Arabia

and that changed everything. That was a game changer. Yes, that then it was all, it all became about movies. And for Joe acting and, you know, for me wanting to, to make, to direct, you know, and write. Yeah. And live in the desert. And what?

And live in the desert. Yes, I did. I did. You had an Omar Sharif thing going on for a while. Oh, I was ridiculous. I, I, I completely over identified with T.E. Lawrence. Oh, I was ridiculous. I completely over-identified with T.E. Lawrence. Oh, interesting. To the point where it got a little weird, it did.

Well, of course. But my obsession with him ended when I realized that it wasn't T.E. Lawrence that I was fascinated with, it was that movie. Uh-huh. You know? Yeah, I mean, I wonder how many people were inspired to become filmmakers because of Lawrence of Arabia. Steven Spielberg, for one. Yeah, yeah, a good many. Of course, I think of now how O'Toole became part of Joe's repertoire.

Oh, yeah. Yes, didn't he do it? What did he do? Did he do it with O'Toole in King of the Pope? Oh, yeah. He's O'Toole, and Dave is doing his Richard Harris. Yes. Well, that was the first parody home tape recorder audio that Joe and I did.

It was Lawrence of Arabia. And Joe played Lawrence. He played O'Toole and I did Jack Hawkins and, and Alec Guinness. Jack Hawkins. Not many people do Jack Hawkins too. Gilbert used to do John MacGyver. That's a lot of people. He did it for John MacGyver?

Yeah, he did it for Andrew Bergman, who's still not over it. I never heard anybody do Jack Hawkins. Well, it was specifically his Allenby, his General Allenby. Hawkins. Before we get into Joe and Joe's path, and Joe going and auditioning for the American Academy of Dramatic Arts and all that stuff, I'm intrigued. And this is, I was telling you before we turned the mics on,

how many nuggets I found about you two guys. How did you get involved with working with Ray Charles? Oh, I was also a musician. And I was trying to make some money as a guitarist. So I was in a band with, do you remember James Ingram? Sure. I was in a band with James Ingram back then. He's in the We Are the World.

He's in the USA, one of the singers in USA for Africa. Yeah. We were in a little band in LA and we would do every kind of gig, weddings, we would go to Air Force bases and army bases. James had done some session work for Ray Charles. And so I got introduced to Ray and Ray liked my playing. Wow, what a compliment.

So he would bring me in to do guitar overdubs on some of his records. Well, what was your experience with the man? I don't think we ever interviewed anybody who knew Ray Charles on the old show. He was larger than life. His voice, just his voice, the presence of his voice was so powerful, just sitting there talking to him, you know?

And, but what I loved was it Ray Charles whom I loved since I was a teenager actually liked what I was doing you know so that was a thrill for me. Praise from Caesar. If I played something he would like it say yeah that's what the old man likes you know. That's great. And yeah he asked me to go on the road with his band, and I showed up for the first rehearsal, and the charts were just mind-boggling. They were jazz charts,

and all of the chords were really complex jazz chords, changing on just about every beat. And I realized with the first song, it wasn't gonna work. So when he realized he wasn't hearing me, he said, hey, Paul, you there? And so I just made my way up to where he was sitting. And I said, Ray, I'm a rock guitar player, blues. I can't play this jazz stuff. Okay, I got you. And I'm doing them like Rochester, but

not quite not going you're doing so that so I obviously didn't go on the road with Ray. There was your chance to be a ray let Missed opportunity so Ray says Paul you're gonna stand back there with the Ray lets I would have done it. What was her name on Romp a Room who would look into the mirror and shout everybody's name out. But here goes. Sharon Northern, Matt Martin, Eric Rine and David Komorowski, two of my favorite people right there. Thank you, boys. Michael Fickel or Fiquel? Nah, it's got to be Fickel. Pastor Mark, interesting. David Levinson, I know David. Jeffrey Butcher, Gary Friedman. Mitch Miller, sing along with Mitch. Thank you, Mitch.

Eric Collin, love you, Eric. John Carlson, Aaron Miracle or Maracle. No relation to Dr. Miracle and murders in the room work. That's a really weird reference. Mike Nathan, Mike V. Brian Sheridan, Michael Prine. Thank you, Michael. Thank you, Ernie Allen.

Jared Stone. Thank you Jared for sending that wonderful baby video. Eric Nielsen Ranta. Jason Scorich. I love these names. Greg Anderson. Thank you Greg. Thank you Jason.

Thank you Eric. Thank you Jim Anderson. Hey, Jim Anderson and Greg Anderson, no relation. Matthew Conway. Mike Green. Joe Cab. Rockford Jay. And the talented, multi-talented, and never unimpressive,

Ralph Castaneda. So thank you guys. That is the next 25 names. There'll be more to come. We're very pleased and touched by your generosity. Once again, that is a patreon slash fun for all ages podcast So let me let me see if I can chart Joe's path and then I'll get back to you guys Joining SC TV eventually so at some point he does four years in the Air Force And he also auditions for the American Academy of Dramatic Arts, and I saw an interview with him

And he was pissed that he didn't get it. He auditioned, you probably remember this, Paul, but he auditioned with a piece from Shakespeare of Romeo and Juliet and a piece from The Seven Year Itch. Which shows range, I think. Yeah, right, right. Seven Year Itch, the movie was, what is it? Tom Yule or something like that?

Tom Yule. Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. He was a film buff. And I think Joe remembered that the guy that beat him out in the audition, and years later when Joe was successful, he ran into the guy in New York. And I think the guy was working in a bar,

you know, or something like that. And so Joe felt vindicated that he... I would imagine. I would imagine. Well, William Goldman's law, right? Nobody knows anything. That's right. That's right.

So he makes his way to New York at some point and he studies the method. And then he finds his way to Chicago with Second City, but as a stage manager. Yes. There was a guy named Mike Miller, Michael Miller, whom he knew from the Pittsburgh Playhouse. See, after Joe didn't get the American Academy, he joined the Pittsburgh Playhouse.

And that's where he met Michael Miller, who after Mike Miller left, he called Joe and said, would you be interested in being the stage manager at Second City? And Joe jumped at it. So he went to Chicago and became the stage manager. And if I have the story right, he winds up getting into the company

because some of the other actors didn't want to work with Garrett Graham. That's a new piece of information. Yeah, I saw him tell it. He was on John Kennedy's daughter's talk show and I found a clip of him. But Bernie Sollins said, but why Joe? Joe's the stage manager.

And apparently the other people in the company, including Brian Doyle Murray, I think, if I have that right, wanted to work with Joe and he joined the company. And Ramis was in that company too? Yeah. Yes. And eventually Belushi, if I have my information right. Yes, John was his. Yes, yes.

That's when I first saw and met Joe was going, I used to go down because of John, cause I knew John, I went down to watch the shows and I would sit on that side bench, Paula, you know, right by the side of the stage behind the piano. And I'd watch, and I watched Joe, Joe was amazing on stage. And that's when I first met him. And he eventually, I joined the touring company

and he was our director. Joe became the director of the touring company while he was still on stage in Second City. But it was that seeing how, I always, he was so brilliant of an improviser on stage. He was just... He loved it. That's what he loved more than anything else,

being on stage improvising, live. They used it. That's what he loved more than anything else, being on stage, improvising, live. They used to do a thing called make a speech, which is just a, you know, taking a suggestion from you, you know, it's pretty simple. But he was so good at that. He was so smart and clever and so confident of just getting up there, taking whatever suggestion the audience said and doing a lecture about it. And it was so, he was just brilliant on stage. Yeah, he was at home when he was on stage improvising. That's what really was true. And it was true, I think of his, especially on us and on SCTV, but certainly in the theater, you wanted to impress Joe. You wanted to get Joe to laugh. You wanted Joe's opinion. He really was the guy that

you went to. He just, I mean, he was, it was fitting that he played Guy Caballero who ran the whole SCTV network because he was the guy that you kind of all went to and wanted his approval of a lot of this stuff that we were doing. Yeah. Let me see if I can bring these two parts together here. So Dick, Joe and Paul are growing up in Pittsburgh, hanging out as Paul put it, as bums in movie theaters.

You growing up in Wheaton, Illinois, and with also an interest in comedy, and you said before the Stooges and the Marx brothers, and you got into an improv theater group, but you wanted to be on the other side of the camera. You wanted to be a performer. Yes, at first I did, yes. That's how I got, it was actually,

I was in a little improv group in college, but it was Belushi, who when I had graduated college and was still living back in Wheaton, who called me, because John was from Wheaton as well, and said, why don't you come down and audition for the touring company? Come on and audition for the show. It was John who started it all for me. So I said I did, and I came down and got into the touring company and Joe was the director. But I knew pretty early on that it wasn't necessarily, especially when Paul and I started working. I knew that that's the kind of thing that I really knew we could do well, you know.

And it wasn't so much... I didn't mind being on stage and Joe was a great director and he was always having us do these movie parodies and things like that. He always had a great sense of doing that kind of stuff. And of course when Dick and Joe were on stage together it was just... Well, he was... When we were in Pasadena, they opened it... Paul had mentioned they had opened a theater in Pasadena, a second city theater, you know, in a mall, kind of a little mini mall place. And it was, it was John Candy, Joe,

Eugene, for a while, Betty Thomas, Debbie Harm, a couple of other people. And then somebody left and I took, I took, I because I was out there and I, you know, Gene Levy was in that company. Yeah, he was in for a little while and John was there for a little while too. Yeah. And Joe would come on stage. Well, I mean, can we tell this? We're doing a sex clinic scene, which is an old classic second city scene. And I was supposed to play the therapist

with all these sex clinic people that need of sex therapy. And Joe came on and- This problem wasn't, he was a chronic masturbator, right? Yes, and before he went on, he got Juergens lotion and put it- There's the method training. In his hand and shook my hand and I just lost it. I was playing piano at the time and everything just stopped cold and Dick could not stop

laughing. I was and the stage manager, we won't mention his name, the stage manager put me on report and somebody from the Chicago producer, Joyce, came out from Chicago to have a talk with me and tell me that I was going to be let go if you keep laughing. And she had a meeting with me. I said, where's Joe? guy who stopped. He said, well, he's not, he's not, you're the one who's laughing. I know I'm the one who's laughing. Joe also did a thing where he'd come on stage and he would do all his lines from against the wall, you know, behind you and would not move up so that you had to turn your back from the audience to address him just so that he could focus, just so he pull focus in the scene. I said, would you stop doing that, please? He said, what?

I don't know what. We should mention. Go ahead, Bob. I was going to say that in terms of Dickie and I, our working relationship with Joe really started on SCTV. Yes. Yeah, we rode a lot together. Or we were, people I think he liked to work with most.

So to backtrack, you guys gave the script to Ramus. Ramus gave the script to Dave Thomas. Well, we got hired. And you got hired. And gave it to Ivan. Ivan threw it back at him. Ivan said, right, who are these guys? And then gave it to Dave. And then Dave hired. And Dave gave it to Ivan. Ivan threw it back at him. Ivan said, right, who are these guys? And then gave it to David.

And then Dave hired us. And Dave hired you on season three. Well, it's season three of the half hour show. Season three of the half hour show. Which was still in syndication before NBC. The season that Moranis came on, that was Rick's first season as well. And did you? I was terrified.

Why? Oh, I had never, I had never worked on a professional basis in a group like that with all those talented improvisers and everything. I just, sitting at that table when they were pitching ideas and having no confidence at all that I was and having no confidence at all that I was even able to do it, I was terrified. I didn't know that at all. We handled ourselves well. Oh, Dick, I was terrified. I may not have shown it, but I was terrified. And because I thought at any moment Dave or somebody was going to turn to me and say, all right, the jigs out. She hasn't said one fucking word. Why would you accept this offer? If you have nothing to say? Why? I think this is more your psychological state Paul, maybe

so. But that's, that's what it was. Well, I would imagine it could be an intimidating room with those people. Well, it was, you know, it was it was a different room because John had left to go to go to do Big City Comedy, which was a Canadian half hour sketch show. So he was going because nobody thought the show was going to come back. Eugene was gone. He moved down to L.A. And so was so was Andrea gone as well. Right.

I don't even know if Catherine was around. So it was kind of- Catherine was gone too. So that's why Rick hired Moranis, cause he saw Moranis and knew him from Toronto. He hired him and a couple other, Tony Rosato came on. Robin Duke? Robin Duke came on.

So we were all kind of, a lot of us were new in that season. Gene did come back and do some episodes. Yes, he did. And so did Andrea. Yes, so did Andrea. So they were all kind of slowly coming back into it. And were you guys sharing an office? I mean, apart from the big, intimidating writer's room? Yes, we did share an office. And we... It wasn't until we wrote our first sketch that that that got acceptance that I was able to relax at all.

You know. And I lost that that terror, you know. I remember the first day, Paul, we went to lunch at the restaurant behind we were in Toronto, we were in actually we were working near the theater or at the theater. I don't know where we were working. But it was close that we went to a restaurant and John Candy was there he was not on the show at the time. He was having lunch with Larry finds cousin.

Of course he was. You made my day, Dick. It was impressive. Larry Foynton's cousin. And he came over to me and he didn't introduce me to Larry Foynton's cousin, but he was having, I don't know who the hell, what that conversation was like. That is fascinating.

He told me, he said, what's Andrew, was, it was a different owners. Bernie didn't own, own second city at that point But he kept saying is he giving you first class get his first-class hotel room Don't go into the office if it was typical candy Flight all the way did he fly you first class? How much per DM John was big on Did you guys find yourselves writing for Joe right off the bat, the guy that you knew in the cast? No, the first sketch we wrote was actually for Dave. Do you remember Dave?

It was the one about Grizzly Abrams. Grizzly Abrams. Grizzly Abrams. Grizzly Adams. But it was a turtle instead of a bear. And they had the turtle back into town, which took forever to get back in. Yes, that was our first sketch. We did write one for Joe, which I talked about Paul Lee.

Joe used to do Slim Whitman, that record guy. I remember. Paul used to do the voice for Slim. He did all the yodeling for Joe. And we wrote a Gomer pile of Slim Whitman USMC. Right. It was supposed to be Slim gets drafted into the Marines and is just yodeling. And Joe and we were so proud of it. And I

remember it was a Friday afternoon, we gave it to Joe to look over. And he put it in his briefcase. He said, boys, I can't wait to read this. We still have not we had not heard from Joe in three or four years. I don't know. We were afraid to ask him, remember? Bring it up. And he just never said anything about it. Well, that's the other side of it, Frank, was that our relationship with Joe, our writing

relationship with Joe was very odd. It sounds like from the interviews I was listening to, it sounds like everybody's working relationship with Joe was odd. Dave tells a story, well, you guys were working in Edmonton at one point. Yeah, we did. Yeah, for years.

Dave tells a story of writing together with him and putting a bunch of index cards on the wall and he turned around and Joe had left and, and he went to Italy. Well, that's, I think that's one of many times he went to Italy. Couldn't find him. He thought he checked back in Pittsburgh. Well, Paul tells the best story because we had, you guys went and I'll just set it up, but they, we were having a four day weekend at SCTV where we had a Friday and a Monday off.

And you guys decided that you and Joe, that you were going to go to Italy. Joe decided. Yeah. No, but you had never been before. So you were all set to go. I had never. Yeah, I had never been to Europe. And Joe had been there several times. It was just going to Europe to Joe was like, you know, taking a trip to the suburbs, you know. So he said, let's let's let's go to Rome.

You know, I said, sure, why not? And we booked top class on Alitalia, which meant that we had reclining seats, you know, where you could double those beds. And it was really exciting for me. You know, first time, you know, going over Europe, going over France and being in Italy. And we and we got there and Joe immediately got hit with the jet lag. So Joe just hit the sack immediately. So there I was in Rome, never having been there before.

Joe's asleep and I'm sitting there. So I decided to go out and walk around a little bit. I managed to find some place to eat and then I got lost. But I found my way back to the hotel. And just as I got back to the hotel, Joe was just waking up, just as I was crashing. So I passed out, Joe woke up, So I passed out, Joe woke up, I slept, Joe went out and did whatever he did all day. Then when I woke up, Joe was ready to crash again. That's great. You did it on the entire trip.

The entire trip, Joe and I spent no time together. When he was sleeping, I was awake. Hilarious. We spent no time together until the very last night. We went out to a restaurant, got something to eat, and got on the plane. Fantastic. Is this the same trip, by the way,

where he disappeared on Dave? You would- It could have been. Oh, okay, different trip. No, Dave wasn't. Dave wasn't. Oh, wait. I don't know. Dave was, I've just listened to, after Joe passed,

Dave did a wonderful podcast interview. And he said that, he said they were working in Edmonton. They were working on something. And he disappeared. And Joe went looking. Dave went looking for him, called Pittsburgh, called home, and found he was in Italy. Maybe it was a different trip.

When Joe was- No, that was a different time. I see. Yeah. Presumably he slept for a large part of that one too. When Joe was a Pittsburgh Pirate fan and when Roberto Clemente died, he went to Puerto Rico, right?

Yeah. But he didn't tell anybody. He was on stage, he was supposed to be on stage at Second City. Wow. He just left for Puerto Rico to attend the funeral. Yeah, Joe would leave the country at the drop of a hat and never think twice about letting anybody know.

His own man. He would just go. ["Forever Young"] Hey everybody, Frank here. Remember the British invasion? You know you do. When the US went crazy for the music, the fashions, the spy films, and the sports cars from the UK, and the coolest cats in Hollywood rode stylish, fast British motorbikes? Well, the good news is that timeless style never really left. Just found a new home. BritishMotorcycleGear.com, based right here in New Jersey, offers motorcyclists a curated selection of high-quality touring, adventure, and classic style jackets, pants, and accessories that reflect that iconic era, but with modern materials and protection.

You'll look great on or off the bike in Bellstaff, Merlin and their own BMG brand gear, stylish, safe and built for today's ride. And you'll get personal one-on-one service from this small enthusiast-owned shop that served motorbike riders for over 30 years now. Available only online at BritishMotorcycleGear.com where heritage meets the open road. Use the code FUN, that's F-U- FUN at checkout for 10% off your purchase. That's britishmotorcyclegear.com. Hey, so what did you want to talk about?

Well, I want to tell you about Wigovie. Wigovie? Yeah, Wigovie. What about it? On second thought, I might not be the right person to tell you. Oh, you're not? No, just ask your doctor.

About Wakovi? Yeah, ask for it by name. Okay, so why did you bring me to this circus? Oh, I'm really into lion tamers. You know, with the chair and everything. Ask your doctor for Wakovi by name. Visit wakovi.ca for savings. Exclusions may apply.

I like this quote from Dave. He said, in addition to not being punctual, Visit wagovi.ca for savings. Exclusions may apply. I like this quote from Dave. He said, in addition to not being punctual, he could be undisciplined, even elusive and mysterious. And it was often hard to pull the comedy out of him. Oh, listen. Dick and I, we should get into this now, Dick. Our writing with Joe, our non-writing with Joe.

Our writing, our discipline of writing with Joe, our non-writing with Joe. Our writing, our discipline of writing with Joe. Yeah. We would set writing sessions. Well, first of all, let me tell sort of Joe's mindset. Joe was what you would call the classic absent-minded guy. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. We were, you know, we were writing a screenplay at Universal and we had an office right there on the lot. And Dave was kind of involved in it as well, but not at that point. It was me and Joe and Dick. So we were at the office one day

and Joe wanted to make some coffee. said who's up for coffee, you know Joe went into the little kitchen area there, you know, and he got the coffee ready Got the got the water ready and we went back into the office and about half hour later Joe said alright, let's have some coffee. We went in and Joe had brewed a full pot of clear water. Hot steaming clear water. He had forgotten to put the coffee in. And he would always do this. That was always Joe's thing. So Dick used to love rousing him. Joe you gotta put the coffee in. You gotta put the coffee in. I know I have to put the coffee in, I know that.

So Joe put the coffee in. We went back, half an hour later came in. The pot was there, but there was nothing in the pot. Joe had dumped out the clear water, put it back on the coffee machine, but didn't put clear water in the machine. Ah, geez, so we forgot again.

So we said, Joe, you've got to do them both. You've got to put the coffee in and you've got to put the water in. You've got to do it. We watched him do it. He put the coffee in and he was putting the water in, so was fine we went back in the office half an hour later all right let's get some coffee we went in and there was brewed coffee all over the counter all over the rug everywhere he had forgotten to put the pot on the coffee maker three times in an hour and a half. Joe managed to screw up that coffee.

This is an extended Jerry Lewis bit. It is exactly. And yet he hates Jerry Lewis. I know. Irony. That's like Marty in Tenderfella. Tenderfella. Tenderfella.

You remember Tenderfella? There's another great one. Oh yeah. Yeah. So I introduced that just as a way of letting you know the world that Joe inhabited. Well, genius takes many strange forms. Yeah, but the one, we were brought in to help those guys on that, it was called the Big Broadcast.

It was supposed to be a remake of these old 30 movies where there's a lot of celebrities. How were they through Bing and WC Fields and all of those things. And somebody, the producer, I think it was Joel Silver wanted to remake it because he was a big fan of those movies and he wanted to contemporize it and, and put a plot line. So they, it was Joe and Dave that were starting to write. They brought us in because it was going slowly. So, but when we started writing with Joe,

it was just the three of us, I think. You're right, Paul. It was, it was, it was, Joe was there with you and I. Yeah. And it was, we started writing, it was at Friday and we had, we had take, we decided to take a scene to write ourselves and Joe said I'll take this big captain's table scene where you know all the people are in there and I said I'll he said I'll write that scene and we started writing it right there in the office and on the Friday we

started writing it said interior ship captain's. Seated at the table are... Yeah, it was like, you know, I don't know. Yeah, and then we listed the characters. All new, that, that, that, something like that. And then, you know, it didn't get much further than that because we had to talk about the Cubs, you know? It was always sport. Yeah, so we talked about the Cubs

for maybe an hour and a half and then, oh, it's 5.30. It was time to leave. So Joe said, don't worry, I'll take care of this. Well, and tell them what happened there. Well, we got there on Monday and we had our scene. We looked down at Joe's, let's do Joe's scene. It said, seated at the white table are Paul Newman,

Olivia Newton John, and dot that. That's what we put down was Olivia Newton John the weekend. That's the only work we did was to put that one more celebrity's name at the table. It is three names. You put some extra effort in. We're saying, what?

Wow, I couldn't do it. I tried. I got writer's name after Olivia Newton. Frank, every day we would show up. Every day we would show up. Every day we would show up, and the first two hours, maybe, would be taken up with Joe teasing Dick about the bears and the cubs. Lifelong Pirates fan.

Yes, he was. Yeah, and then the bears and the cubs weren't that hot, I believe, back in the early 80s. Yeah, probably not. So lots of teasing. And then that would go on until lunchtime. Nothing getting written. It could drive you crazy.

So he was an undisciplined writer. He was. Long story. Maybe you can just cut to that. Put it mildly. He was an undisciplined writer. But you know what he was great at though? And even, cause we wrote the Godfather parody with him.

Oh, I love that one so much. And, and, but he was great at, he was great at brainstorming. You mentioned this the other day, you said, and he was, and he was good at overall, really overall kind of dynamics of a scene. Yes, he was very, very good conceptually. Much better than I was. You need that in the room too when you're- Yes, he was great at it.

Great at it. Right. I remember, as I said, when we were, it was an afternoon at SCTV and nothing was getting done and we needed another wraparound kind of theme show. And it was, he's the one who said, why don't we do something about the CBC? Why don't we go after the CBC? And that was the Canadian show, the rest of the show. And it was like a light had gone off with all the Canadian people that grew up with

those Canadian shows that never had a chance to parody. And that was that was my all time favorite SCTV show. That was that was Joe. He was just saying after he was thinking and he was quiet and he finally said, why don't we do, why don't we go after the CBC? And that was, it was, that's the kind of guy he was with that kind of stuff. And again, he was also good at giving notes and seemed, you know, to get your approval of a scene. He was really good at looking at a scene and saying this is what it needs or doesn't. That's also an important part of the process. Yeah. Yeah. He was really good at looking at a scene and saying, this is what it needs or doesn't need. That's also an important part of the process. Yeah. Yeah.

He was just not a disciplined writer. You know, it was just getting him to put his, putting his name on the old parchment-a-rooney that, uh. Right. That's that. And making sure he wasn't at the airport when you win the. Right. Right.

You know, finding out, too, and doing the research, and I loved going down the, uh, the SCTV rabbit hole and found so many wonderful things. By the way, that Godfather sketch that Dick just referenced, you know, the way it takes like 800 bullets to bring him down. Oh, yes. What do you mean?

The milking of that scene is an absolute thing of beauty. Nothing was gonna bring him down. It was just beautiful. The guy can be- Well, Dick and I were obsessed with the Godfather. Obsessed. Is that how Mo Green, is that why Harold was named Mo Green as the station manager?

Well, that happened before us came in. Oh, that's before you guys, that's right. It was Mo Green, he was Mo Green back in the half hour. Somebody else must have gotten to that reference. We actually put the character Mo Green in that screenplay that we wrote that Ivan Reitman read. We had a character named Mo Green in it. Love it. That's right, we did do Mo Green for that screenplay that we wrote that Ivan Reitman written. We had a character named Mo Green in it. Love it.

That's right. We did do Mo Green for that. That Godfather spoof, though, that you guys put together is just a thing of beauty. And I was saying, watching these sketches and then finding out that Joe was such a film buff, you can see it in the work. You can see it in the characters.

And I found out that this was a revelation to me that Guy Caballero was based on Lionel Barrymore's character in Key Largo, at least in part. I didn't know that. Yeah, I saw an interview. It took very well to have been. Yeah, he was doing an interview with my friend Tom Sharpling.

And somebody else said it was Olivier's character in the Betsy. But I heard it out. That's pretty obscure. But I heard it out of Joe's mouth that it was the Lionel Barrymore character in Key Largo. Well it was kind of that. Oh really? Yes, that makes sense in a way. Did you know that Dick? I didn't know that. No, but you know, Joe never talked about how his characters...

Did all those characters that Count Floyd and Guy and even Vic Arpeggio and some of those other characters, there's another one I love, which reveals, you know, shows that Joe loved film noir. Did those, all of those characters go back to the stage? Were none of them originally created for the series? Not those, the newscasters Floyd and Nero were stage characters. Okay.

Were they there? I didn't know that. Yeah, they did the night. That was a stage piece. And Andrea did Miss Prickly on stage. Marty did Grimly on stage, you know, those kinds of things. Joe, I don't know, Joe, the Count Floyd, I don't know how, well, Floyd, Count Floyd was Floyd Robertson. He was the alter ego of the newscaster. And Joe improvised those. Those, he had kind of an idea where

he wanted to go with those. And we knew. Well, wasn't Vic Arpeggio actually Vic Hedges? Yes, Vic Hedges. Right. Vic Hedges is a love him too. It was a friend of him, but that's an actual guy. That was an actual person.

Well, he uses that name in the Chinatown parody. Yes. Calls himself Vic Hedges. Yes calls himself a hedges which we did That's a great one. No, God bless you three for that sketch that Film the dick and I were obsessed with Chinatown. That's a great one. That's a great took a lot of heat for that scene Why so because it was over but because it was so big it it was so ambitious. Was there a crane shot? Yes, uncanny. You guys were doing Touch of Evil. It was a crane shot going.

Well, and that last shot in Chinatown where they all walk away. But it was just, it was getting to be, it was such a big production to do. And we had never done anything like that before. Were you two guys, I believe you two guys were responsible at least in part for the wonderful battle of the PBS stars. Yes. Which is also gold, so. But that's, I was thinking of that.

That was a typical, right up SCTV's alley because. So good. It was doing those sporting events like the network starts, but putting really smart PBS characters in the sketch, which is what SCTV always liked to do. If it was going to get broad, put the smart thing over the broad, you know, and not make it just one thing or the other, which is what, well, that was the Julia Child Mr. Rogers box. So good. Marty is Mr. Rogers is disturbing.

Dick, Dick, you, again, remembering I worked with Mr. Rogers in Pittsburgh, but Dick, tell the story about when you went to the theater to see the documentary about Mr. Rogers. One of those documentaries was Pack That Theater. And she was talking about how Fred's feelings got hurt when people would do parodies. Oh, really? And they showed a clip of Eddie Murphy doing his Mr. Rogers neighborhood thing. And then it said, and then she started talking about how King Friday was such a puppet that really meant. And then they cut to Marty beating

truly a child with King Friday, hitting him over the head. And the lady next to me in the theater just went, oh, like that. Just like that. Just like that. She was so pissed off. What a proud moment for you, Dick. Oh, I called you, Paul.

When I got on the theater, I called you. I said, guess what just happened? I would have loved that moment. Do you know any of it? I would have been laughing. But it couldn't have been. It was Marty when Marty's Mr. Rogers went over, took the puppet off of Mr. Postman's hand

and started beating John over the head with it. And then Gene was playing Howard Cosell. Oh yeah, and Rick's doing his wonderful... He said, I can't believe it, he just beat the woman unconscious with a puppet. It's a sad day in Mr. Rogers' neighborhood. Joe's William F. Buckley is also one of them. Oh, it's the... Delight. William F Buckley is's being declared the winner.

I don't have to explain. You saw it. He beat the woman unconscious with a puppet. Oh, the papers will say that Fred Rogers won. But in my opinion, it's a dark day in Mr. Rogers' neighborhood. Oh, yeah. It is always, it was one of the great impressions. It's a great companion sketch. It reminded me, and this is a compliment, of Python sketch where the philosophers all

show up on the field to play soccer. And that was that, we probably were closer to the Python kind of comedy than we were. I would think so. That's an L. First of all, and Moranis is Dick Cavett, which I know Dick is a fan of, I know Dick a little bit. And it's just, it's also, and everybody does Dick Cavett,

but that is, that is the best. Rick was a great writer and he went off and wrote the Cabot Interviewing Cabot. That's another great one. And I remember him calling me in because he wanted a couple of Groucho lines and things like that. So I sat in there for about 10 minutes just to give him a couple of things that he could drop, you know, those Cabot things where he drops a reference to the Marx Brothers or something like that.

Rick was amazing. He was really good at not only writing those kind of sketches, but really writing things that were visual, like putting himself on the screen at the same time and doing that. What's the other one I loved? Perry Como is Still Alive? Yeah, that was Eugene's sketch. We were the Jewell Hallmeyer dancers in the back. Really, also great, as is Rick's Merv Griffin

with the obsession with the jacket linings. Rick and I wrote all the Mervs together. Really brilliant. Those were fun. God, we had a good time writing those things. Andy Griffith one, the Merv Griffith one, where in Mayberry. Those sketches made so many people happy.

I hope you guys are still hearing from fans all of these years later. I remember at one point on the Merv Griffith show, we had Hal 2000. Yeah, that was the 2001 run. We had him as a guest on the show. We had Merv interviewing him. The real guy Douglas Rain? Wow. Yes. We actually got Douglas Rain to do the voice and at one point he was talking about his agent, Sy Perlmutter, you know

That's what we wrote in the script. Yeah We're having Hal talk about his agent. Hilarious. Now, you grew up in Pittsburgh with an actual horror host, Paul, Chilly Billy. But Count Floyd, Gilbert and I in the old show, we did a whole thing about horror hosts. But Chilly Billy was not an inspiration for Count Floyd. Because they were different. Well, in one sense, he was.

Because Joe forced me to become the Pittsburgh Midget. Yeah, what? Tell us, talk about the origin of the Pittsburgh Midget for a minute. Well, one of the characters on the Chilly Billy Show was a midget. Mm-hmm. I like to use the word midget. We're the only podcast in the world using the word midget, but we'll apologize for that. I just want to say that I would have used a different word.

Yes. But the character was different. My character was called the Pittsburgh Midget. Yes. Well, I know. Yes. But we're still getting back to work. So I did it with a Pittsburgh accent. That's very authentic.

You know what Joe did, and Paul, you were great, is it? But you were giving directions for the longest time. They were asking you of which way to go on the highway and the freeway. I remember it was a lot of direction sequence. I was complaining because Count Floyd didn't put me up in a motel. By the way, those Count Floyd bits is really Joe, you guys know better than I would obviously, knowing his whole body of work. But watching the flop sweat as he would then try to push the 3D glasses. I was watching Dr. Tong's House of Cats. 3D houses of stewardesses.

The 3D houses of stewardesses. Yeah. That's his finest hour. Joe did the same thing with Caballero. He did that thing when he's ready to give an amount that people should send in. He did it with Count Floyd too. There would be that little pause in his voice

while he's trying to make up the right figure. It's like $23.61. The A-Raps. He would always jack it up. Yes, he did change it. Campbell Euro did the same thing. It can be yours for just $78. In House of Stewardesses, of course, he comes out of the clip

and he says, all right, not that scary, but how about those chicks? Didn't he say, I don't usually that scary, but how about those chicks? Thanks. I didn't say I don't usually do this, but let's show him that clip from that. Let's look at this. Let's take another look. And Paul, you sort of found, listening to another interview with you, and you said,

you sort of found your groove directing the film parodies on the show. Yeah. Because you got to do pre-production. All did Oliver Grimley, which was one of our. I love Oliver Grimley with Tommy Lasorda. And Tommy was an actor playing Tommy Lasorda as the arch-vile Dodger in a Dodger uniform.

You know who played Tommy Lasorda was Joe Grafazi. Joe Grafazi, that's right, that's right. He's still around. The first thing I did was scenes from an idiot's marriage. Also great. Did you do Whispers of the Wolf? That was kind of like an amalgam of a bunch of different Bergman movies. We wrote scenes from an Indian's

marriage in about 20 minutes because you knew everything about Bergman and I knew all the Jerry Lewis bits. And we just put them together, wrote that thing so fast. Part of the perfect mashup. And then Marty knew that whole typewriter thing by heart. Yes, because he was a huge Lewis fan, too. Oliver Grimley is great. And I mean, so you look back at these things, they're so ambitious.

That's, that's, yes. They're on a limited budget, but you're, you're really, you're really using every, every resource to make these things work. That was thanks to Andrew Alexander, because he would, he would, you know, deficit finance all that, you know? Yeah. Rome Italian style. That was another great one.

And that's, that's the other thing you talk about Joe being the movie buff. He watched so many of those old Italian dubbed movies that he knew the individual dubbers voices and he could imitate each one of them. And when we did the Italian movie, it was all dubbed. And Joe was using those individual dubbed voices. I love the one, the comic relief voices, the guy that would, you know, just. Right. Yeah. And all those voiceover guys down.

Joe also liked bad movies. So did he? Oh, he was the every bad movie that and we did. We did. What did we do? We did South. South. We did Zontar. Right. Which is an actual movie. South Sea Center was an actual movie. The Oscar, which was the Oscar, the Nobel. We changed the Nobel. Talk about that. He liked to do. He liked to do the Tony Bennett character was the Oscar, the Nobel. We changed the Nobel. Talk about that. He liked to do, uh, he liked to do the Tony Bennett character

and the boy, that's a, that's a piece of strange acting. When up, when he should have gone down. He, I do. Jenny. I thought that was one of his funniest characters that Tony Bennett that he did. It was great. And actually it was great is that he had voiceover remember?

Yes. But you knew Frankie, oh yeah, you knew, you know, he was just. Also, nobody did Robert Mitchum. He did, we were talking before about Gilbert and John MacGyver. He tackled these impressions that nobody, I mean other people did Kirk Douglas,

but he did, and his Heston. He did a great Heston. Great. Yeah. He did great in I mean, other people did Kirk Douglas, but he did a, and his Heston. He did a great Heston. Great. He did great in the towering inferno. Simply great. Stopping off at Burger King before he gets to the fire. Just waiting in line for a burger. He did that thing where he would slap his neck.

Remember? God damn you. There's also that great, I think you guys were involved in that 2001 parody with Simon and Garfunkel. Yes, we were. It's like a weird version of Abbot and Costello go to Mars with Simon and Garfunkel. I can't even believe what it was.

Paul was so good at doing Ernest Borgnein. So funny. The way he gave Gene, you schooled Gene in terms of just how you got to do the board knife. That's so real. Let me ask you guys, I got a couple of things here from fans. This show is not even, as we're recording this, the show has not even been announced. So you guys are on the ground floor of this.

This is one of the maiden voyages. So the fans that wrote in are people you might know something about. Chris Kluce. Yeah. Yeah. Wants to know if Dick ever read the Abe Lincoln sketch he submitted on MADtv on May 27, 2002.

Is this Chris writing in? This is the actual Chris Kluce. Oh, that is hilarious. Well, Chris was on staff at SCTV. Yes, indeed. He was on staff atth, 2002. Is this Chris writing it? This is the actual Chris. Oh, that is hilarious. Well, Chris, you know, Chris was on staff at SCTV. Yes, indeed. He was on staff at MADtv. He's probably referring to something I didn't pick of his.

He is. That I put into production. He's saying you often took a while to read submissions and get back to people. That is hilarious. Yes, that's true. But I think he did do the Abe Lincoln, as I recall. Okay.

It was very funny. We actually produced it on MADtv. Chris is a great writer. Chris was on the show with Artie Kogan a couple of weeks ago. Oh, good. I'm stockpiling episodes with comedy geniuses. He's great. He is great. He mentioned too, Paul, for you, he mentioned,

he said, ask Paul about Joe's love of the pirates and what happened when Clemente died, but we already covered that. That's right. Yeah, yeah. You guys used to wait for Forbes Field Watt till the seventh inning, where you guys could get in when they opened the game. That's right.

That's right. How did you know that? I know a lot of stuff. It's like, this is your life. It's a little bit. How did you find out? I'm a slightly less creepy Ralph Edwards. Here's another one from a fan, a super fan.

Uh, his name is Jay Cogan. Or as Arnie and I refer to him, young Jay Cogan. Uh, Joe was in a movie I did called The Wrong Guy. And just having him around made us feel like we were doing something good because he was comedy royalty. Wow. I'm not familiar with that movie. Are you Dick? No, but I'm going to take the compliment and you should just say it's very nice. Now you guys can look it up. I know, I don't know, but

it's true. I mean, he made those productions. He did Phenom. I brought him in for Phenom to do a part on that. Yes, I want to ask you about Phenom in a minute. He says that because of Joe, everybody watched the Oscar, which they were not familiar with on that staff. And they were not familiar with Ocean's Eleven. I mean, they were familiar with it. They'd not seen it. And because of Joe, they got to watch it.

And the question for Dick that Jay has is, which Tracy Ullman sketch got ruined the most? I know now personal stuff is going on. Everybody uses inside baseball, but it's not all inside. It's just, come on. And what was your favorite episode of SIBS? Oh, who is that? Jay too? That's Jay's also Jay's question.

Yeah. I did write one of those. I was there at the time. Paul, we both worked on Tracy Elman, and then you left to go direct. And I stayed and spent another year or so at Tracy. You want to tackle that one, which sketch got ruined the most? Or you want me to move on?

I don't. I wouldn't say that. Let's talk about Maudlin's Eleven. And because that's another highlight. And all of a sudden, again, ambitious, watching this thing. And it's like you're watching a feature in late night television.

I know. And it gets us intrigued. I was saying this yesterday or someone. Paul and I talked. I said, you know, we pulled those things off. And in hindsight, they are all great. But at the time, the ambitiousness of it was making me nervous because it was because they were kind of too big

for what we could pull off sometimes. But we always did. Yeah, because we were getting heat from the production people. What are you guys doing? They would walk into the office with a script, just their veins bulging. What the hell are you trying to do?

Bankrupt us? Wasn't it great to be in your 30s You know, just the veins bulging. You know? What the hell are you trying to do? Bang-wrap those, you know? Wasn't it great to be in your 30s and thinking we could do anything we want on this show? Yes. We're just going to use a crane. We're going to do a feature. We're going to do a 30-minute sketch. Well, that's what Dave said.

And we used to be fearless. We didn't care what anybody would say or do. We'd just do it, you know? Question it. Even I was watching the special that you guys wrote with Dave, We didn't care what anybody would say or do. We just do it, you know? Question it. I was watching the special that you guys wrote with Dave, the time travel special. Wow, I don't know.

The time travels of Henry Osgood also, Henry Osgood also, which people can find on YouTube, incredibly ambitious. Oh yeah. Let me ask you guys a couple of things. This is slightly off the top. Is it another Jay Cogan? No.

This one's for me. Did you guys work on a script? And this could be complete bullshit. Did you guys work on a script for Rick Moranis and Don Rickles about an over-the-hill Clint Eastwood type? Yes. It was a great idea. It was called Killer Charlie.

Killer Charlie 3. Killer Charlie? Yeah. I love it. I think it was Killer Charlie 3. Killer Charlie? Yeah. I love it. I think it was Killer Charlie 5. Killer Charlie 5. I want to read these scripts. I hope they're still sitting around the house.

You know, that one was unfortunate that it didn't. I mean, it almost did. I don't know how close it came to getting done. But we originally did write it in Rickle's voice, that's for sure. We did that. Well, every time Rick would pitch a line for the killer Charlie, he would do it using Don Rickles voice and it worked

perfectly. That's great. So that I was pushing and hoping that we would get Don Rickles to actually do it, but that was a that was a non-starter at the studio, you know? They weren't gonna put Don Rickles in. So I think what it came down to is that Joel was trying to get Alan King to do it. Alan King was bankable where Don Rickles wasn't? Yeah, I know.

That was my point. Strange, a little strange. I think Joel actually had a cardboard standee done of Alan King as Killer Charlie. I love this. As a selling point. But it never went anywhere. It was a very funny script.

Did you guys also punch up or have a meeting about punching up a Mel Brooks script? Yes, Spaceballs. Oh, Spaceballs. That's a funny... That makes sense. And I love... Mel's great. I mean, that was... it was one day. That's all we spent on it. But it was exactly what you think it would be in a room with Mel. He was the most effusive pitcher you'll ever meet in your life. At one point I think he was up on the table, standing up on the table. His energy was just amazing.

Well he liked to write movies with a group, sitcom style, because Blazing Saddles obviously, he was Norman Steinberg in there and prior for a couple of weeks. Ronnie Graham was in that day. And Tom Meehan was there. Tom Meehan. Yes, he was one of the collaborators that worked with Mel for a while. Rudy DeLuca and Ron Clark for a while. Yeah, they weren't in that day, but it was definitely was Ronnie Graham and Meehan. Do you remember how the day ended, Dick?

Yes, I do. Well, he's... He called our agent. He wanted to use us very badly. He called our agent and they quoted him a price. And, uh, whoo-ee! He said, would you guys be willing to work, you know, per gag? So, our

agents told us not to not to do it. Oh, that's too bad. But you did. But you did a day on spaceballs. It was great. It was fun. And Mel's been so Mel is such a great guy. I mean, I just I bumped into him a few times and he's always been he's always been terrific. Oh, we bump on, you know, we'd see him on the lot that we were doing Tracy Olmert. We'd see him at the lot at Fox, you know. Hey, Mel.

Hi. And he was always high energy. And he loved Rick, obviously, Spaceballs. Sure. He loved all of them. Rick's a lot of fun in that. It was hysterical. I got to ask you about Morton and Hayes, Dick,

which I heard you talking about. What a strange premise. I love shows. I guess the word is ambitious, maybe reckless. But I love shows that attempt to do something so original. That's right. And that is a show. And if I have this right, the pilot was shot in,

again, talking about ambition, the pilot was shot in, again, talking about ambition, the pilot was shot in Technicolor? It was shot in color, old color, and I think we enhanced it too. But that was, and it was all done on the back lot at Universal too. With Chris Guest as the villain? As the villain.

El Supremo, I think. El Supremo, yeah, I looked it up. Chris was great. I looked it up. Chris is just, his villain is the funniest villain. He just thinks he's too smart. His plans are always bad, but he thinks they're great. But yes, we did that.

And then, this was Rob's idea. Rob Ryder and Phil Michigan. Yes, and once we shot that though, I think he went to CBS, cause they gave us six during the summer to do. They're all in here too, by the way. In black and white. We had a premiere,

Rob premiered one of the black and white episodes, there were a couple of them, invited people. And I think it was, would Max Sennett have still been alive? He was, he was like 90 something years old. And he came to the premiere. Kind of cool. And we did those six, and that was it. But it was very quirky idea, but it was fun to do.

Well, I mean, another guy with a love of old movies, and he's got the clout to put this thing on television. That's right. And it was fun. And it was fun. And it was great. We got some great, Catherine did one for us. And we had a good list of guest stars that came in every week. They're a lot of fun.

And you can find them on YouTube, actually. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, you can go now and watch them. I have to watch them. And let's talk briefly, Paul, about 18 again and working with George Burns, who was a man of a certain age at that point.

Yes. But how fascinating that as a kid, you find yourself, you know, you and Joe are sitting in the movie theater, and now you're directing George Burns. Oh, yeah. But I had to meet him to get his approval. And George every day would have lunch at the Hillcrest golf course, right near Fox. And every day George had the same thing for lunch. He would have a hollowed out

toasted bagel and a bowl of soup. So that's what he ordered. I don't know what I ordered. So we were talking and George is talking to me and he started to butter his bagel and I looked down and I realized that George didn't realize that he had buttered about three-quarters of the way up his fingers. And I could, I was trying not to not to notice, you know. Okay, yeah. Good for you. But the amazing thing was he was so old and his circulation was so bad that the butter never melted during lunch. You could have said something like, let me wipe the butter off your bagel or something. Who is 93 at this point?

He was 93. 93. But, but just, you know, he was very sharp, but the mid, the memory was, was not there. Right. But obviously you got the thumbs up. What? Did he call you kid? Yes, he did.

He called everybody kid. Good cast. Red Buttons is in that movie. Red Buttons was in it. Yeah. Yes, Red Buttons was in it. Bernard Fox, the British actor who played Dr. Bombay on Bewitched and is in Titanic. And what's his name from the Woody Allen movie? Tony Roberts. Tony Roberts, yeah.

Tony Roberts. Yeah, and Hal Smith. Yeah, Charlie Slaughter, who did a great George Burns. Yeah, yeah. But you know, when I'm shooting this stuff with George, I would have to do it in a way where I could just keep the camera rolling and George would be halfway through a speech

and his eyes would just glaze over. And I would just say, that's okay, just keep rolling, camera rolling. And George would be halfway through a speech and his eyes would just glaze over. And I would just say, that's okay, just keep rolling, keep rolling. George, just pick it up again, pick it up again, give me the line. And then we'd give him the line. And then we would just shoot it piecemeal. And that way it was, we were able to edit it together.

But what a legend, I mean, for you to be approved by him, I mean, as a very, uh. Yeah, but this is the guy who was buttering his fingers. That's true. Sounds like his elbow at that point. Oh, I remember at one point, at one point, um, he said, he made some jokes. It made me laugh and I, I put my arm around him because I was laughing so hard. And I felt his rib cage. Man, he was just all bone and flesh.

You know, very late in his career, he gives a terrific acting performance in that movie, Going in Style, with Art Carney and Lee Strasburg. And he had to be 90 then, and it's actually a beautiful performance. Yeah. But kudos to you. Quickly, one Charles Grodin story,

because I have to ask you about Clifford. Charles, talk about eccentric. Yeah. We never got him on the old show and we kicked ourselves for it, because we tried so hard. It's hilarious. To me, one of the funniest people.

I loved working with him. At that point, he was just completely enamored of improv. He wanted to improvise everything. He didn't even want to have a read-through. Didn't want to have a read-through. He didn't want to do run-throughs on the floor. He would put up with camera blocking, you know. But he wanted to keep everything fresh for the camera.

Which at times used to get on Marty's nerves and mine as well, because Marty and I would write scenes and try to craft them with written jokes and everything. But Chuck wanted to just throw everything out the window and improvise, you know? But he was a great improviser. So it wound up usually being, you know, half or most of what we had written, but also, also improvised.

But I remember I had to be approved by him as well, so we had to fly to New York and meet Chuck in a hotel room. During that meeting, which lasted about an hour, Groton adjusted the temperature in the room maybe 20 times. Interesting. At the point where he realized that we were aware of it and he was trying to fold his arms and do it behind his back, you know?

He was just that quirky, you know? Guy gave some really wonderful performances. When you look at the Heartbreak Kid and the chorus and even the small parts like Heaven Can Wait and certainly Midnight Run. Yeah. I loved working with him. Great body of work.

He did? He and Marty are an interesting team in that movie. They are. I got to ask you about the Billy Crystal because this is just a thing that I've loved for many years that don't get me started and maybe it was you guys maybe it wasn't but who came up with the idea of putting Sammy Davis and Brother Theodore together to do Who's on First? That was Billy. That is surreal. You know what we did? We went to see, what was the Sting documentary

that we screened that Billy, this was all Billy drove that. I mean, but I think it was a Sting documentary where he had everybody in a house for a tour, the musicians, and they were just gonna all live in a house and rehearse before they went out on tour. Wasn't that it, Paul? Don't you remember?

And it was, and that's what inspired Billy to do it when we, so we were always going on that. And he brought up the brother Theodore and Sammy was kind of his. No, I, could be mistaken. I think Billy told me that at one point, brother Theodore thought it actually was Sammy Davis Jr.

Oh, that could be. That wouldn't surprise me. And that Brother Theater was not a Sammy Davis fan. That is disturbing. That's disturbing. Well, that helped the who's on first routine. Yeah, well, they were at each other's throats during the routine. Oh, yeah. He turns on him. He assaults him at one point.

Yes, exactly. And I think Billy said he actually hit him with that bat. Just the thought of brother Theodore in a sketch. And by the way, and Chris Guest is doing that, Chris is, okay. Chip Dementabella. Yeah, exactly. And he had a, Chip had a baseball bat

and he had like, I don't know if they were ski pants. Hilarious. Chris always had the best outfits as those characters. Well, it's sort of, it's before Corky St. Clair in Waiting for a Guppman. Yes it is. It's the same character, isn't it? Same character.

And Eugene is the, is the, is the, the unctuous agent. I mean, it's just, it is all of you guys at the height of your powers. I want to do a segment on the show called Name Dropping, which needs a better name. But so many of the guests that I've encountered with the old show with Gilbert have brushes with some very, very interesting people.

And we talked about this a little bit on the tech run through. But Paul, quickly, if you can, can you talk about your experience with Burt Reynolds oh boy I got hired for one episode of Larry Sanders and the guest star was was Burt Reynolds now at the time Burt had just he was embroiled in a divorce with Lonnie Anderson. Yeah. So they worked that into the script as they were wont to do on that show.

I loved that show. Great show. And so this episode was that he was supposed to be living next door to Larry Sanders, but he was in the guest house because he was on the outs with Lonnie. And at one point he meet he starts talking to Larry because Larry comes out on his deck and they start talking. Well that was that was was gonna be the scene that they did. But prior to this, he had done a scene for the show

with Hank where it's actually on the Larry Sanders show and Hank is the Ed McMahon sidekick. Hank Kingsley, yeah. Right. And the premise of that show was that Hank was opening up a restaurant. The revolving restaurant. Yes.

Hank's look around cafe. Yes. And he kept inviting everybody on air to show up on the show. And everybody was backing out of it. And it was written into the script that Burt also backed out of it, you know? And it was written into the script that Burt also backed out of it. Well, part of the script was Hank gets insulted about it and starts needling Burt about the Smoky and the Bear movies.

And Jeffrey's such a good actor that when he did it, I believe, and I could be wrong, I believe that Burt thought he was actually needling him and that they were going to start doing, they were going to make an ass out of him on the show. I honestly believe that because from that point on, Bert turned on a dime. He just became really angry and a monster.

That's good stuff. he just became really angry and a monster. And- That's good stuff. So when it came time for him to do his scene with Gary Shanley, he realized that Gary Shanley was going to be elevated on that deck and he was going to be down below. So he called me over, he said, Hey, Chief, he called me over, he said, hey, chief.

He called me chief the whole day. So what's the story here? He's going to be up on that fucking deck looking down at me? He's looking down at me? I said, well, I guess so, yeah. You know? Uh-uh. Uh-uh.

He said, if I'm down here, he said, OK, here's what I want. I want you to get a bucket full of dirt and get me a shovel. And what I'm doing is I'm doing some gardening. That's the reason why I'm down below him, okay? Wow. And you, hey chief, make it happen. So.

So. Movie stars. So I went to the AD and they made it happen. They got him a bucket, they got him, you know, filled it with dirt and Gary came out and Gary had no shirt on. And Gary at this time I think had been working out because he was kind of buff. So Bert says to me, Chief, come here. So he's up there with no shirt on,

looking down at me, and he, you know, he said, okay, hey, you know, he said, I got guns too, you know? I got fucking guns too. So he grabs an Apple box, which is boxes that they use on the set, and he turns it on end, and he starts doing push-ups on the apple box to pump up his guns, his biceps.

And halfway through it, the apple box tips over and smacks him right in the chin while he's falling, you know? Which pissed him off even more. So anyway, finally, Gary had no idea what was going on. No idea. So they start finally you got, Gary had no idea what was going on. No idea. So they start shooting the scene, and when they're shooting it, Bert did it perfectly. He was perfectly in character, no hint of anger.

He was funny in it. And then he reaches in to the bucket and gets a bucket full of dirt with rocks and on camera slams it right into Gary Shanley's face. Right on camera, right while we're shooting. Unbelievable. And Gary just got, what the fuck? And he walked off and I had to, you know, they had to explain to him what was going on. So he came out to do the retake with a shirt on. Meanwhile, in the interim, Rip Torn comes running up to me. What did you say to Bert?

I said, well, I didn't say anything to Bert. He said, you must have done something to piss him off. I said, I said, I didn't say anything. And I tried to explain to him, oh, bullshit. He said, keep your mouth shut. So I'm thinking, what did I walk into? You're the director, for God's sake. What the hell did I walk into here?

And you only did one episode, huh? Yes. Oh, not surprising. There were other things that went on. I won't go into them with Rip Torn and things like that. Oh, no. It was crazy. I liked Rip.

I liked his. I know it was the cast was all these huge personalities and everything. But he was honest. And he didn't beat around the bush at all. How long were you there, Dick, at the Sandbox? I was just there the first season. That was it.

But the shows were great, and I give Gary all the credit. I mean, that was his show. It's a wonderful show. It's a great show. And I was telling Paul, I knew Rip when he wasn't happy with the writers, and I knew a couple things. He was a huge fan of John Candies's and he liked fly fishing and that stuff.

So when I saw him coming, I would always stop him before he could say anything about the writers and say, I just talked to John. I just talked to Candy last night and he said, hey, he'd stopped from yelling. How did tell him I said hello? And of course I had to talk to him, But it was a great way just to diffuse him because he loved him so much. He would just turn in to, you know, what's he been up to? He's a great guy.

And then I'd, you know, kind of walk away from him. But I thought I liked Rip. I thought he was- And Dick said to me, he said, I wish I had known that was going on with Rip. I would have given you the hint about John Candy, you know, to diffuse him. I know.

You should have used a couple of those things. If only you'd known. You know, Gary deserves credit too, because he had an offer to become Johnny's replacement and decided to create a show about a talk show instead. Yeah, yeah. It was a real stroke of genius. It was, it was.

And I always really give credit to him Yeah. That was a real stroke of genius. It was, it was. And I always really give credit to him because that was his show from beginning to end. They had great writers and they had a lot of great people on it, obviously. Wonderful people on it. But it was Gary's creativity. I just loved it. I loved the tone of the show, the way they played it so so realistically, you know. There was nothing like it at the time. I mean, there were showbiz marities that came

along, but but seeing real people play themselves as monsters. But seeing a version of themselves. Yeah, it was that's what was fun about it is they always played the opposite of what you think. I also I love the fact that he he portrayed himself as a bit of an asshole too, you know? Yes, a very neurotic one. Yeah. I love the fact that he had the guts to do that, you know, which I think was the precursor for Larry David on Curb Your Enthusiasm, you know? In a way, in a way.

Let me read a couple of things that were said about Joe when he passed, I thought these were very, very sweet. Judd Apatow said, "'When Joe Flaherty was on set, it felt magical. We were always so excited. We couldn't believe he was part of Freaks and Geeks. We loved him, and we made sure to tell him all the time.

Every moment with the man was a treasure. Yeah. Martin. Go ahead. No, go ahead. That's a great one. Marty said, at SCTV, we called him the anchor. In life, he was simply the funniest man in the room.

And Dave said, and I love this one very much, Dave Thomas said, if you can say that you made maybe a million people happier, that's a pretty damn good legacy. Yeah. And you know what, Joe, you know, thinking about SCTV, he loved that show so much. And Paul, you know this.

I mean, he didn't want it to end. He was the most I mean, he he really was the anchor and he was the soul of the show. And and even when NBC was going to cancel us and we had that awful meeting where they wanted to switch us over to Sunday nights against 60 Minutes, Joe still said, well, maybe we can't. He was still holding out hope. Oh, yeah. Find a way to keep it going somehow. You know, he, it was, it was just this true hap,

even those days when he was dying and I would go visit him. He'd want to watch some videos of SCTV and go on YouTube. And it was really, he was really inspiring in that respect. Well, Joe was the one who picked up the phone. This is after the half hour show had finished. He's one who picked up the phone and called Brandon Tartikoff to pitch a 90 minute version of SCTV.

So he kept it going. Yeah, he personally kept it going. Yeah. Were you there when he when he made the call? He personally kept it going. Yeah. Were you there when he made the call? I dialed it for him. Yeah. Because he was in Malanathan's eyes. He did not think Brandon Tartikoff

was going to get on the line. And neither did he. He didn't and I didn't. And he got put through, right? Brandon was a great guy and a big fan of the show. He was. And what happened was, I think they were in negotiation

to do something with the show at the time when Joe called, when Joe talked. And Joe and all Joe said was, you know, I if you know, if you are doing something, I just want you to know that I'm I'm really 100 percent in doing something and really want to be part of it and all of that. I mean, he was just he was just kind of giving him his assurance. I didn't know that there were negotiations going on. I think there was something going on because I gave Joe too much credit then. Yeah.

No, but I think Joe called because he didn't want it to go away. He said he loved it so much. And he said, Oh, yeah, we had just done the half of the last half hour version of it. And NBC was interested. So he said, let's give him a call. I think we were supposed to be writing. So that was probably part of the, is that he didn't want to write. It was procrastinating. You know what the amazing thing about SCTV was for me was, you remember back when we were writing,

when we found out that Second City had put together a half hour TV show. Remember we heard about that up in Canada? But I hadn't seen any of the episodes because it was syndicated. And I didn't even know if it was on in LA at the time, but eventually it did get on one of the stations. And when I turned it on and I saw that show, and the first sketch I saw was Joe

doing that campfire sketch where he scared that kid to death. When I saw that, I couldn't believe it because to me, that was exactly the same humor and stuff that he and I grew up with doing together. I was flabbergasted that it could get on TV. You know? I was, I was. And that very thing was what kept me alive

all during SCTV, that spark. Because it was just the same humor. That's great to hear. You know, I said, go ahead, Dick. Yeah, no, go ahead. I said to my friend, Paul Williams, the songwriter of, you know, Rainy Days and Mondays and Rainbow Connection, all these wonderful songs.

And I said, you know, of all the people that have come up to you in supermarkets and everything over the years and told you how much your work has meant to them, think of the millions of people who will never approach you that you never meet, that you'll never encounter. And I don't know if you guys think about things like this, but Dave, Dave is really underestimating the number. You guys, all of you and Joe, of course, brought, you know, so much joy to so many people. And here's one, here's one fan thanking you, but I hope every day

of your lives somebody comes up to you and says, what a difference you guys made in the culture. Well, thank you. And I don't think it's a show that could have been done in LA at all. I think we were in the right spot at the right time, doing it in Canada, about a small station, doing it at a small station. We were living what we were basically were in the right spot at the right time, doing it in Canada about a small station, doing it at a small station.

We were living what we were basically writing. And I think that was the key to all of that. And we were just off by ourselves, pleasing ourselves and doing it to make each other laugh. But you know what's ironic? What's ironic is that Joe, Joe was in the Air Force and he was very proud of being in the Air Force. And at one point about, I don't know, maybe 12 years ago, he and his daughter Gudrun and I went down to Texas to his old air base to see an air show.

And we were ready to get on the base and they were sold out, they didn't have tickets. And Joe was trying to pull a rank to get in there and he said, no idea, my name is Joe Flaherty, Joe Flaherty and he said, SCTV, do you know SCTV? The guy with the headlights, you know, the guy had no idea and he said, SCTV? Do you know SCTV? And the guy with the headlights, you know, the guy had no idea. And he said, Happy Gilmore. He said, oh, yeah, come on, come on in, you know?

He's great in that short, small part. So the last several years, I always refer to Joe as the guy from Happy Gilmore, you know? That's great. He could make the most. And you know, there's know? That's great. He could make the most, and you know, there's no small actors, right? He could make the most. I'm looking at him, and he's in 1941 for about what?

About a minute and a half. That's right, he is in that. And he's wonderful. Your eyes go right to him. Yeah. He could steal a scene. He could steal a moment. A great talent.

And I was blessed to grow up with that show as such a part of my life. As many people who went into comedy, I'm sure tell you guys all the time. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's true. So thank you. But you know, just one thing.

When we were up there doing doing that 90 minute show, when it first aired, the ratings were abysmal. It was depressing. We were working ourselves to the bone. You know, like Dickie and I working all day long, late hours and there was no ratings at all. And it wasn't until that Time magazine came out and gave it a rave review and called it the best show on the air that that show started picking up at all. Because

it was very depressing at the start of it. There were a couple. It was Jay Cox, wasn't it? At Time Magazine. Yeah, yeah. And Village Voice did too. Village Voice got on the bandwagon early on. And they started writing about us. I remember we were so shocked that we got some press.

We were so innocent then. It was just- I know. I remember you being really excited when the Time Magazine, you got, you went down the hallway and started, we got a review. We got something. Yeah, yeah.

Just, we just never- I know. Had any of that kind of stuff. Cause we were, cause we, we just loved what we were doing and we were working so damn hard. It was nice to see that positive feedback. Well, you know, great works of art are of their time, but also you guys know from some long careers,

you've watched so many things not happen over the years. This show existed in a magical place and time. That's right, it did, you know? I believe that. And I'm so happy for it, as are many others. And I thank you guys. I'm so sorry that I didn't get to meet Joe and interact with him, Paul.

I guess it wasn't in the cards, but I'm glad I had this time with you. You would have loved him because you're a film buff yourself. I am, I am. And Gilbert too, I don't know if they ever interacted. I don't know. But he would have loved Gilbert.

He would have. I can imagine. Oh, yeah. I love Gilbert Gufford. That was my hope, that we'd have the two of them on their trading impressions. But I'm so glad we got a chance to do this. Me too.

It was a wonderful. Thanks. It was great. Thank you, guys, for everything. Thank you, Frank. And let me thank a couple of people that made this happen. We're here with our, at Cityvox, let's give Cityvox a plug and our engineer Ashley, who's very patient and has been sitting here laughing even though she doesn't remember a lot of

these people. I didn't hear one laugh. He didn't hear one laugh. Well thank you, thank you for the laughter. It would have been nice to have a laugh. Thanks, thanks. She's private, she's laughing inwardly. And thanks to Chris Kloos and Jay Kogan for pitching in, to Bobby Hutch and Brian McKay,

also for that help, for their help. Thank you for the entertainment over the decades, gentlemen. You made the world a happier place. Thank you, Frank. And this has been fun for All Ages with the great Dick Blasucci and the great Paul Flaherty and I hope you'll come back another time and we'll talk about some other crazy shit. Okay sure. Thank you guys. We'll see you next week. Guests of Fun for All Ages stay at Uncle Ronnie's Adult Motel. Fun For All Ages is produced by Frank Santopadre, Genevieve Sturbins and Andrew Capone.

Post-production supervisor Bobby Hutch. Social media director Josh Chambers. Music by MIBE and Pete Cepino. FFAA social media team. Michelle Mantinen, Dino Preserpio and John Bradley Seals. Logo designed by John Teslick. Support us on Patreon at Patreon backslash fun for all ages podcast. I'm your announcer Josh Chambers. Thanks for watching!