Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Richard Donner Encore

Episode Date: August 23, 2021

In honoring the life and career of late, great producer-director Richard Donner ("Superman," "The Omen," "Lethal Weapon," "The Goonies") Gilbert and Frank present this ENCORE episode from 2018, featuring a fascinating conversation about the importance of on-set teamwork, the eccentricities of Marlon Brando, the singular talent of Rod Serling and the challenge of (faithfully) adapting the Man of Steel for the big screen. Also, Gregory Peck cashes in, Gene Hackman plays hardball, Jackie Gleason bends the elbow and Richard looks back on directing Hollywood’s greatest character actors. PLUS: "Inside Moves"! Miguelito Loveless! “Nightmare at 20,000 Feet”! Celebrating Don Rickles! Gilbert auditions for “Scrooged”! And Richard remembers his friend Christopher Reeve! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling, winning, which beats even the 27th best feeling, saying I do. Who wants this last parachute? I do. Enjoy the number one feeling, winning, in an exciting live dealer studio, exclusively on FanDuel Casino, where winning is undefeated. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem?

Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connects ontario.ca please play responsibly what happens when 20 extremely athletic canadians who thrive on competition and won't settle for less than number one find themselves on a team taking on jaw-dropping obstacles all across canada is one thing working together on a team, taking on jaw-dropping obstacles all across Canada is one thing. Working together on a team with some pretty big personalities is another. It's a new season of Canada's Ultimate Challenge, and sparks are going to fly. New episode Sundays. Watch free on CBC Gem. Hey guys, Frank here, and Gilbert and I are trying to squeeze in a little summer vacay,

so we're going to be posting Encore episodes, or Best of GGACP if you prefer, all month long, all of August. Now, this week's Encore episode is one we originally recorded and presented back in 2018 with the late producer and director Richard Donner. We were very excited to book Richard on the show. He'd been a longtime favorite of mine and of Gilbert's, and he generously schlepped to the Earwolf Studios in L.A. at that time, and he gave us well over an hour of his time. We talked about Superman, of course, and a little about Gregory Peck and the Omen

and some of his best-known Twilight Zone episodes, and of course, Gilbert being Gilbert, we even managed to force in a certain question about Marlon Brando and Richard Pryor, and Richard being a great sport rolled with it, so bless him for that. The guy born Richard Donald Schwartzberg right here in the Bronx really had a remarkable career. Starting out as an actor, he'd go on to direct hours of classic TV like The Man from U.N.C.L.E. and Get Smart and Gilligan's Island and The Fugitive and eventually big-budget features

including, obviously, Superman and The Omen, but also The Goonies and the Lethal Weapons series as well as a personal little movie not many people have seen called Inside Moves, which I know he was proud of. In fact, I brought it up. He was also an Inside Moves, which I know he was proud of. In fact, I brought it up. He was also an animal rights activist, which I certainly appreciated, and apparently a much beloved human being. Our friend Norman Steinberg knew Richard,

and he occasionally lunched with him in LA, and he texted me, and he said Richard Donner was a total mensch. It seemed everybody loved and respected the man his close friends called Dick Donner. And sadly, Richard passed a little over a month ago at age 91. So we thought this was a good time to repost this episode, a personal favorite of mine, actually, so that all our listeners could revisit it and share our love and our appreciation for him and his work, which is, after all, what this show is about. So we hope you enjoy our 2018 interview with the late, great Richard Donner. Thank you. Hi, I'm Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and we're once again recording at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Ferdarosa. Our guest this week is a writer, producer,

occasional actor, and one of the most successful, prolific, and admired TV and film directors of his generation. His television credits are many, including iconic shows such as Route 66, The Fugitive, The Man from UNCLE, Get Smart, Gilligan's Island, The Wild Wild West, Ironside, Tales from the Crypt, and The Twilight Zone. In fact, he's directed what is arguably the most beloved episode in that series, Nightmare at 20,000 Feet. Nightmare at 20,000 feet.

As a producer, he's helped bring to the screen a wide variety of projects, such as The Lost Boys, Bordello of Blood, Any Given Sunday, The Free Willy Series, X-Men, and X-Men Originals Wolverine. Or Origins. Or Origins. It's optional. It's optional. But it's his work as a feature director that's had the greatest impact on audiences all over the world

with memorable films such as The Omen, The Goonies, Mavericks, Scrooge, Radio Flyer, Ladyhawk, Inside Move, 16 Blocks, Lethal Weapon, 1, 2, and 3. And 4. And 4. And 5 coming up. Oh, great. in one, two, and three. And four. And four. And five coming up. Oh, great. And of course, the granddaddy of the modern superhero film,

the Christopher Reeve star, Superman. In a career spanning an impressive six decades, he's directed some of Hollywood's most prominent stars, including Gene Hackman, Steve McQueen, Gregory Peck, Julia Roberts, Jodie Foster, Bill Murray, James Garner, Robert Mitchum, Richard Pryor, and of course, Marlon Brando. Hell, he's even worked with Don Rickles, Buddy Hackett, and yes, John MacGyver. We're thrilled to welcome to the show one of our favorite filmmakers and a man who keeps a bust of Abraham Lincoln in his office just to remind himself that he was shot by an actor, the great Richard Donner. Well, that's something else. It sounds like

my mother wrote that. Now let's get the most uncomfortable thing out of the way first. I auditioned for Scrooge. Say what? I auditioned for Scrooge. Say what?

I'm sorry, I'm not hearing you. I didn't see your check go on the table. Now, I also have to bring up. Wait a minute, tell him about Scrooge. Which part you auditioned for. I auditioned for the part of the cab driver. Oh, David Johansson. Oh.

You would have had it. Yes. You would have had it. But David was going with my sister at the time. And he needed the work. Look, he doesn't have a podcast. Look how it all turns out. Yes.

Well put. Now, here's something else I want to bring up. And I know you didn't write this script. And Rod Serling's dead. So I have to blame you. There was that episode of Twilight Zone starring John MacGyver. And I think he had like a boat company or something. And he kept everything loud.

Yeah, sounds and silences it was called. Oh, my God. Yeah. And he's punished at the end with one of those Twilight Zone punishments where he goes totally deaf. where he goes totally deaf. And there's a point in the show where he says, When I was a child, my mother wouldn't allow us to have cookies. We could only eat fudge. She said that cookies were too loud and made a loud crunching sound.

And when I heard that, I thought, he's a sympathetic character. His mother gave him an unhappy childhood. Why is he being punished? It's Rod Serling. Yeah, I know. It's Twilight Zone. It's Twilight Zone. It's fairy tales that, you know, demented children love.

Yes. Written by demented children. Did you ever hear anybody do a John MacGyver impression before? No, it's John. John did a couple. What was it like directing John MacGyver? Do you remember? You know, you're really taking me back.

Yes. The only thing I do remember is a terrific guy. He was kind of at a good point in his career. He was a delight to work with. It's hard to read. That's a long time ago. Oh, yeah. And my wife, Lauren Shuler Donner, great producer, she writes my, here it is.

Your address is 1444, so I don't remember. Well, what about Nightmare at 20,000 Feet? You're asked about that one. It's William Shatner. You're asked about that one often. Yeah, yeah. That was another one written. Richard Matheson. I i read it i loved it i we had three days to shoot it and um the end of the second day the producer came in and said

the studio wants the setback we have to finish now so we shot until the sun came up the next morning. And, you know, you don't know what you have. I knew that I hated the costume. We were fought about that. And you finish it, you cut it, you put it together. And all of a sudden, it became a classic. Did I know it? Did I expect it?

Anything but. Anything but. A classic even that got rem it? Did I expect it? Anything but. Anything but. A classic even that got remade. That's right. Yeah, by George Miller. That's right. With John Lithgow in the Shatner role. I like yours better, Richard. You got good taste.

Now, you started as an actor. Who couldn't take direction. Oh, yeah. And that's why, who told you that? Martin Ritten. Yeah. The great Martin Ritten. And he told you that you couldn't take direction, so you should become a director.

He said, you can't take direction, you ought to be a director. And I said, you know, easier said than done. I had been hounding him throughout the entire rehearsal, not hounding him, but in his shadow. And he just turned and said, your opportunity is now in a strange way

because you want to be my assistant on the next show, which I was. And I ended up becoming an assistant. In those days, I was a floor manager and working with some great directors. And poor Martin Ritt got reamed. Oh, yeah, blacklisted.

Blacklisted. Made some wonderful movies, by the way. Oh, he was a great director. Great director. Yeah. Did he make HUD? And a beloved one. I think he made HUD.

That's right. Oh, my God, yes. Yeah, and Murphy's Romance, I love, and The Front, about his Blacklist experiences. That's right. Yeah. Which was his life story. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, what was the one with Sally Fields?

Oh, well, there was Norma Rae. That's it. And Murphy's Romance with her and Garner, which was great. Oh, that, yeah. And then what was the one with Sally Fields? Oh, well, there was Norma Rae. That's it. And Murphy's Romance with her and Garner, which is great. Oh, that's right. Another great one. He was great. He was really great. Yeah.

I've heard you say if it wasn't for him, you might still be an out-of-work actor. Yeah, it's kind of a misquote because I didn't say out-of-work. You did. I would have been a very popular, well-known, in-demand actor. Or maybe I would have been out of work. I don't know. Did you enjoy acting? Were you kind of looking around for a way out? I know you did some things.

You did a Lava Soap commercial, among other things. Do I have that right? Commercials and a lot of little theater and some TV shows in New York when it was live. W-A-B-D, Dumont. Oh, the Dumont Network. Wow. That goes way back. Wow. Did I like it?

No, it was frustrating. And Ritt was right. I found it very difficult to take direction, to listen to people. Yeah. Yeah. And nobody knew as much as I did. And now here's something I had heard about years ago. I had heard about years ago because I did two episodes of Superboy

and a few voiceovers as Misha Spiklik. So he's part of the extended Superman universe, Richard. Ah. So Ilya Sulkin... Who? He has... Are you allowed to say that? No.

He has... Are you allowed to say that? No. He has a law. A law on the books named after him. That's true. The Salkine. Yeah, the Salkine Clause, it's called. It's SAG, Screen Actors Guild. You have to declare how many pictures you're making when you hire anybody. Because in their case, they had done the Four Musketeers.

Oh, yeah. And they had so much extra footage when it was done that they decided to put together another picture from it and didn't want to pay the actors for the second movie. That was my dear friend Richard Lester. Oh, yes. Who never

called me since he took over Superman. Anyway. But yeah, that was the Salkind Clause. And a good one it is. The stories, the Superman stories, I mean, in the book, on the DVD commentary on your cut, on the Richard Donner cut, which is, again, I'm going to blow smoke up your tush, but better than the original Superman 2. Thank you. I don't think it's debatable. the original Superman too.

Thank you. I don't think it's debatable. But those stories, and I was telling Gilbert, I mean, everything, Richard, that whole journey from you getting the phone call while you're sitting on the john, the initial phone call

from Salkind. Right. And you scribble down a million. You still have that card, that hairdresser's business card? Oh, can you tell us that story? It's so good. Well, the story was

it was Sunday morning. I was totally hungover. I had done the omen. I was the fruit of the month. The fruit of the month. And I was hungover and I was sitting there kind of hoping

everything was going to be all right. And the phone rang and there was this Hungarian voice saying this is Alexander Salkland do you know who I am? I said no I don't know who you are Sunday morning, whatever you're selling

I don't need it and before I could finish I was about to hang up he said I'm a producer, I was about to hang up. He said, I'm a producer. I'm a very well-known producer. And he named the pictures.

I said, yes, I did know those. He said, well, I'm making a movie. I said, well, what is it you want from me? And he said, I'll pay you a million dollars to direct Superman. And then I figured, okay, this is one of my friends. Somebody who was with me last night and knows the shape of him this morning. And he said he had Marlon Brando, Gene Hackman,

had dates, and he's making two pictures, not one. And he offered me a million dollars. That was like somebody saying all the tea in China. I mean, a million dollars was unheard of. Today it's pocket change. Not for me, but for what goes on out there.

Anyway, he said, I'll send you the script. And I swear to you, it wasn't more than an hour before there was a knock on my door and a messenger with a box and a script. The script was so big, you've always got like a hernia lifting it out of the box. I couldn't believe it. It was two movies and I read them

and the first thought was, these guys are killing Superman. They're Hungarians from, I forget where, Costa Rica someplace. They had a diplomatic passport. And they'd never been there. So something's up.

And it was just, it was a parody on a parody. They were destroying any heritage and respect that we all as kids had for Superman. Was this the Puzo script, Richard? Or had the Newmans and Robert Benton done a pass on it at this point? It was Puzo, Benton, and Newmans. Right, right. And it was ready to go to shoot.

They had a director, and I can't think of his name, very well known. Oh, Guy Hamilton. Yes. Yeah. A very well respected known. Oh, Guy Hamilton. Yes. Yeah. A very well-respected director. Yeah, made Goldfinger. Right. Hey, you're good at this.

So I said, I called my friend Tom Mankiewicz, who was Joseph Mankiewicz's son. More Academy Award nominations and awards than anybody. And Tom was a great writer, and we were great friends for many years. And he had done a James Bond, and I figured this is right up his alley. Because what they were doing, they had things like Lex Superman flying down looking for Lex Luthor in Metropolis. And he was looking for every bald head. And he taps one of them on the shoulder and turned out to be Telly Savalas from that series which I had Kojak. Oh, Kojak.

Kojak, which I also did. Yeah. And Telly turns around and says, what do you love, baby? And this was in their movie and I said,

oh no, this is not Superman. It's Superman. Isn't there a scene too where he's looking for a bottle of champagne and he flies around the globe

and pulls it out of Queen Elizabeth's hand and she's ready to... You know, it very well could have been. I mean, that's about as... I don't think I read that far.

Yeah. But that's what they were doing and I said, Tom, we got to... I mean, we have to do this. We can make it into something and I said,

but we'll do it with its respect of its own life and verisimilitude of that period of metropolis and small villain. And, oh, there's a good point there. In the box beside the scripts was a lot of their preparation. One of the things was a costume that looked like an old pair of leotards and a red S on it. And Tom was coming over to, oh, no, he said, what is this?

I said, it's Superman. He hung up on me, and I called him back. I said, Tom, I'm serious. He said, what are you talking about? I said, they want to do Superman as a film. And it really, he said, I said, I'll tell you what. Come on over and at least talk. So we only lived 15 minutes away.

He was coming over. I lit up a doobie. Did about five push-ups and put on the Superman costume. And got as far back from my driveway as I could. Tom pulled up, got out of his car, was walking towards me, and I came across the lawn in the costume running out of me. He turned and ran back to his car. And I convinced him if he put it on and read the thing, he'd want to do it.

I convinced him if he put it on and read the thing, he'd want to do it. And it turned out to be just a wonderful contribution. He is totally responsible for that script and its success. And the Writers Guild, per normal, per usual, wouldn't give him the credit he deserved. Oh, that's a shame. So I created one called Creative Consultant and put it on before they could say, no, now it's banned. But that was the epic, a lifetime, two more years of my life. Yeah, the stories of making that film are as fascinating as the movie itself. I mean, you going to meet Brando at the compound that he's sharing with Jack Nicholson,

I guess you took Mankiewicz with you? Right. Well, it was at that point, we had been preparing in England, and almost all of the preparation they had done, I'd say all, none of it worked for me. We had to start from scratch. So we were hustling like crazy and a whole different approach to wardrobe. And I had never met either Brando or Hackman.

they were both two incredible experiences in my life because, uh, with Brando, we were, we were coming back to show him his costume and what he's going to wear and some of the thoughts on the screenplay. And if he had any, and, um,

in preparation, I called, uh, first person I called was a wonderful producer, studio executive named Jay Cantor. World known, great guy. He used to be Brando's agent, was Marilyn Monroe's agent, great guy. And I said, Jay, I'm going to do this thing with Brando. Is there anything you can tell me, any hints you can give me?

And he said, yes. He said, I spoke to him. I said, oh, gosh. He said he wants to play it like a green suitcase. That's just what I did. I laughed. I said, come on, Jay, tell me. He said, no, I'm serious.

He said, he hates to work and he loves money. If he can convince you that the people on Krypton look like green suitcases, then you'll photograph a green suitcase. You'll come in for a day, do the voiceover, and walk away with $5 million. So I had that, and that uh set me back a little bit and then i so i call um stanley kubrick and i said stanley i i spoke to jay told me he said what what can you give me he said listen he's so bright and he loves to talk so So just listen and I guarantee you whatever you want, you'll get

because he'll talk himself out of his own things. So with that, we flew to California and I went up to approach Brando and explain why the green suitcase

wouldn't work. And he was totally entertaining. We spent a quick half hour or an hour just Marlon talking. What are you going to do?

You just want to sit and listen to him. Fascinated. He was talking about kids in today's world. That world. that was 1976 or 7. And he said, you know, I told my son the story about the wolf that chased the rabbit around a tree and over a wall. And the kid said, he told me, he said, no, daddy, he went over a tree and over a wall. And the kid said, he told me, he said, no, Daddy, he went over a

tree and around a wall. He said, these kids, they know everything. Okay. So finally, a half hour later, he said, that's not why you're here. Let's discuss why you're here. What do you want to talk about? I said, well, Mr. Brando.

He said, Marlon. I said, okay, Marlon. He said, let's talk about your wardrobe. He said, Marlon. I said, okay, Marlon. He said, let's talk about your wardrobe. He said, I got a great idea. I know what he doesn't know that I know. So I said, what's that, Marlon? He says, what if I play like a bagel? Now, I'm used to, my preparation is a green suitcase, not a bagel. And I said, I beg your pardon.

And he said, well, you know, what if the people in Krypton look like bagels? And I make my son in the image of an earthling because I know where that rocket's going to go. He had read it, obviously. And he said, that way you don't have to worry about anything. You can just photograph a bagel and so I said no that's a great idea and the producers

and Tom are going yeah that's a great idea and I'm going and I finally said you know Marlon you were telling a story about kids I said the fox jumps over the wall He finally said, you know, Marlon, you were telling a story about kids. I said, the fox jumps over the wall and around the tree, not over the tree.

He said, yes. I said, well, there isn't a kid in the world, practically, that doesn't know what Superman's father looks like. And that's Jor-El. And that's this picture, what you're going to look like. And he looked at me and he said, I talk too much, don't I? I said, well, it was fascinating. He said, you got me, kid, whatever you want. And he was a doll for the rest of the shoot, for the entire thing.

How about that? It was amazing. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling, winning. Which beats even the 27th best feeling, saying I do. Who wants this last parachute? I do. Enjoy the number one feeling, winning, in an exciting live dealer studio. Exclusively on FanDuel Casino, where winning is undefeated.

19 plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca. Please play responsibly. One time you were having dinner with Marlon Brando at his house and someone almost cut stab to death. Oh, this was in the restaurant when Salkind's wife was drunk and she went, was it Mankiewicz she went after? Yeah, yeah. She had been writing pages for the script and

I was trying to be nice because Ilya Salkind, the son, that's his mom. And I know he was caught in a bad place that he had to show the pages. And I kind of liked him. He was a pretty good guy. And she kept sending these pages. And we just kept saying, forget it, forget it. And so they said, would you at least have dinner with her and explain to her why.

So when I told Marlon, he said, I want to go to this. So Marlon came, it was Tom Marlon, myself, and Mrs. Salkine. I guess she had a couple of drinks and she got into an argument with Tom about her pages and why he wasn't using them.

And I guess Tom had a couple of drinks, and stupidly a little argument ensued. We were in a steak restaurant. Next thing is I see this knife coming at Tom. And Brando grabbed her arm and we took the knife out of her hand, and it was quite an experience. I mean, it was just something else. I think she had gotten a little drunk, and she was passionate about her writing,

and I don't know, maybe we mishandled it, but it was an experience. It's all part of the book. Go out there and buy that book, everybody. So you almost witnessed a murder. Yes. Yes, I did. You guys are quick thinking.

I must give credit to Brando. Yeah. Brando. Yeah. Now, and when you met Chris Reeve, part of the problem was that he was too skinny for the part. Well, yes, when I met him, we were casting on like the 16th floor at the Sherry Netherlands in New York. And I always say it was a hot summer day, the windows were open, and in flew this guy through the window. And I knew right away that good Superman character didn't need the elevator, he flew in, but he was this skinny, tall kid, and kind of honey brown hair, not black or anything. kind of honey brown hair, not black or anything.

And when I cast, I kind of like to find out the personality of the people almost more than what their defensive talents are when they're trying to sell themselves. So I was having a wonderful conversation with him. I really enjoyed him. Extraordinarily bright. And a terrific kid. And I was really thinking about him. He was skinny though and I knew we could take care

of the hair. So I said, look Chris, this is Superman and I'm not going to pad his costume. I need somebody that can look like Superman, or at least with a couple of months of work, pass for our hero, our world hero. He said, look, before I was an actor in college,

I was a jock, and I weighed 40 pounds more. And since I went into acting, I lost this weight because I didn't want to look like a jock. I said, can you put it back? He said, like that. And for some crazy reason, I saw him in a play that night down the village. He was wonderful. And I totally believed him that he could do it. Wow. And I hired him blind. I mean, the whole company would have shut down if it didn't happen. But he worked out 24-7, took all the drinks in the world.

The guy who played Darth Vader. Oh, David Prowse. Right. He was a weightlifter, David Prowse. Right. He's also a body weightlifter. Yeah. And we hired David to work with Christopher to get him going. And you could actually see the difference in him almost day by day as his body started to build. It also had a lot to do with the personality of the man, Christopher.

He was a wonderful actor. He put himself into that character. And as the body weight came on, so did the character within. Well, you had the good sense to search for an unknown. I mean, if left to the Salkinds, we would have had James Caan in a Superman

suit, or Redford. Well, yeah. They were so star-struck. Well, it wasn't so much star. What it was, in those days, I guess it's still the same. If they had Marlon Brando, Gene Hackman, and then you name it, it was their finance. It guaranteed their finance. So they were looking for a name.

And I was trying to convince them that they had enough of a names with those two greatest American actors. And that it would be very difficult to convince an audience that Redford and Tice flying with Superman. Or Warren Beatty or anybody else they were pitching. So we wanted to know. And you wanted to make the action film secondary to the love story. Yes.

Yes, yes. One of the things that Tom and I decided was that it was a love story. We called it Jules and Jim because here was Superman, here was Clark Kent, here was Lois Lane. And these two were both

in love with her. She's in love with one. And it was unrequited love. And it was a, we felt we we could make a complicated little love story. But within the framework, that's where Verisimilitude comes in, of Metropolis, that world. And that was what, there were two things, the love story and the ability to put on screen a believable man flying. And that was our mission. And Tom Mankiewicz added the Christ overtones, which gave it...

Pardon me? Tom Mankiewicz, too, his approach was to add the biblical overtones, the Christ overtones. Oh, yes. Which gave it this extra depth. the Christ overtones. Oh, yes. Which gave it this extra depth. Which also had my life threatened for daring to portray Brando as God and Christopher as his only child.

So, oops, did I screw it up? And I had many death threats. Really? Wow. I didn't know threats. Really? Wow. I didn't know that. Yeah. What were you going to say, Gil? And, oh, let's, oh, geez.

Now you jumped me, and I was just about to say it. You lost it. Oh, good. Well, join the crowd. Yeah. Oh, my God. Somebody else. I thought that was only me.

Were you going to ask about Hackman? No. Let's see. Oh, just keep talking. I'll jump in. Well, Hackman famously wouldn't wear a bald cap. And is it true that he wouldn't shave his mustache? You had to go meet him and talk him into shaving his mustache?

Well, what happened was there's a wonderful publicist named Dick Gutman. Oh, we had Dick on this show. Oh, yes. We know Dick. I love him. He's the best. He was one of our guests. I love him.

He called me one day and he said, have you met Hackman yet? I said, no. He said, he's going to be in my office in an hour. Why don't you come over? And I had also just come back from England in preparation and I had to be growing a mustache. And I met him in, in Gutman's office.

Dick Gutman was one of the great publicists and handled all the many, many great characters, actors, producers, directors. Anyway, many, many great characters, actors, producers, directors. Anyway, I went over and I met Gene, and we were talking at this big mustache, and I said, well, look, one of the things I want to talk to you about is Lex Luthor. Your character and the fact that he is bald,

instead of you wearing a bald cap throughout the whole picture, which can be very uncomfortable, why don't you shave your head for the movie? And he looked up at me and he said, no, I'm not going to wear a bald cap. And I don't shave my head. I said, well, Mr. Hackman, I said, yeah, he said, that's your problem. I said, oh.

I said, well, I see you got a mustache. I said, just go on mine. I said, at least you'll shave your mustache. And he said, the mustache stays. I said, oh least you'll shave your mustache. And he said, the mustache stays. I said, oh. That was really nice. Nice meeting you on my way back to London. So I went back and I thought about it. we would treat Lex Luthor's hair as part of his narcissistic approach to life,

his love of the mirror, and that he would wear his hair different all the time. In the movie, for he could keep his hair, we would dye it, change it, whip it, curl it. And it was wonderful. And only once at the very end, when he's captured, he has to take his wig off. Oh, when they take him to jail. Right, exactly. Yeah, when he takes him and Ned Beatty to jail. So I was in England.

I got a call, and they said, Mr. Hackman's in England. I got a call and they said, Mr. Hackman's in makeup. And I said, does he have his mustache? By then I'd shaved mine off. And he said, yes, he has his mustache. So I said to the makeup man, come down here right away. So he came down to my office.

I said, put on the best mustache you can possibly put on. And he worked for a little bit, put this mustache on me. I went up to make up with him. Hackman was in the chair. And I said, well, Gene, you know, at least you're happy with the hair. That's all going to work. I understand you're pleased and that he only had to wear the skull cap once. He said, yeah, that'll work. That'll work. I said, but you know, mustache, it's got to come off. And he said, no, no, it's not coming off. I said, everybody knows your character. He said, it's not coming off. I said, all right. I said, I tell you what, I was playing with my mustache. I said,

you take yours off and I'll take mine off. And he looked at me and he said, I'll tell you what. I was playing with my mustache. I said, you take yours off and I'll take mine off. And he looked at me and he said, all right, okay, sit down. I said, no, while you're there, I'm not going anywhere. You can chase me down. I said to the back of my hand, take off his mustache. And he looked at me and his hand started to shake with his electric razor. And he went at Hackman, and he shaved him clean. And then Gene said, okay.

He stood up, and he said, you sit down. I said, I don't need to. And I peeled it off. Perfect. And he looked at me. Nice work. Perfect. And he looked at me.

Nice work. And his neck went from a size 16 1⁄2 to a throbbing 19 with veins sticking. I knew he was going to kill me. But again, it was the start of a wonderful friendship. That's a nice outcome. Here's what I was going to ask you. The whole ad campaign for the original Superman was, you will believe a man can fly. And I heard that the original special effects were laughable.

They were just like horrible when they were first. They were really bad. I mean, they were really bad. They were much like the TV show, a guy laying on a board and wind being passed and a background moving behind him. I had seven units going on that picture all the time. And that particular unit, the flying unit, took us well over a year before we sat in a room looking at tailings and said, oh, my God, we got it.

We got the first flying shot. It took that long to get to it. Oh, it was impossible. But we broke every barrier. You know, it was before computers. Sure. I mean, there were computers, but there weren't film computers for film. There weren't programs that could be done.

Everything was still being done in a very old-fashioned style and a mechanical way. It worked within its limitations, but you couldn't. For instance, there's a machine called a front projection machine, which is different than a rear projection machine. And so that the screen is behind the actor, and you project, and this machine weighs a ton. Well, a brilliant man came to his name, Zorn Pesek, who had just invented a machine that did exactly what the one-ton unit did, but it weighed like 35 pounds, not a a ton and it had two separate lenses on it

that were very special and we experimented with that and worked on it and developed it until one day this machine made you look up and say my god he's flying wow so it was it was the whole experience of making this movie. It was painful. It was difficult. I fired my editor at least 10 times, and he quit at least 15. And Stuart Baird, he's one of the great film editors. Yeah. But it was love-hate. We were all trying to get the same thing done.

And when that picture finally opened in a theater and we all sat there, we were very humbled. Gentlemen, this man needs help. Well, I certainly hope this little incident hasn't put you off flying, miss. Statistically speaking, of course, it's still the safest way to travel. Right. Wait! Who are you? A friend.

Bye! Bye. I was 17 when I saw it, and it was the right age to see that movie, and it was magical. I was only nine. Sorry. To go from Krypton to Smallville and Glenn Ford, somebody you'd worked with in your past, to Metropolis, the way it just took you on this journey through these different worlds and brought the old action comics to life. For a teenager seeing that movie, and a kid who was a comic book fan, it really was magic. It was movie magic. Well, it was to us.

But that's exactly it. That comic book. My mother probably threw away the original where it was worth millions. Oh, yeah. My mother probably threw away the original where it was worth millions. Oh, yeah. But it was, we had some sort of a moral obligation to that comic book that you read when you were a kid and the movie that you finally saw when you were 17. Sure, that was the magic of it, to see this thing come to life that you that you'd had in your in your mind all these years that you just you've been animating it in your head all these years and the contributions from other people too that i don't want to leave out john barry and uh and john the great john

williams and jeffrey unsworth and all of these i went out of my way wonderful people that were involved? To find the very, very best in every department. And at every night when we were done shooting, I would have drinks in my office and hot doggies that I had friends would bring in from the airport, from New York, from Nathan's. And we'd sit around the office, all the different department heads, and talk about the next day's work or the next week's work or two weeks, and got everybody involved. I had learned it on the Omen. I put people together. In England, it was very hard because it was all

very, very upper and deep art metalized. But we'd get it in and we'd beat the problem by people that were makeup men that were working on coming up with the ideas for the flying units. It was just quite a great

experience. And that brings The Omen into the conversation. That's a movie it came out shortly after The Exorcist and I like The Omen a lot more than The Exorcist. So do I.

So do I. We're unanimous. And how did Gregory Peck come on board with this? Well, we were trying to kind of upgrade a little because it had been sold and pitched for a long time as a horror film. a long time as a horror film. And I felt that

by eliminating everything that was obvious in this script, that instead of treating it as a horror film, we could treat it as a mystery suspense thriller. And therefore, you could probably go for a better

higher class actor. At the moment we were getting down to final decisions on who's going to be what, Marlon, Gregory Peck's agent, I forget his name now, came to us and said, would you consider Gregory Peck? I said, yeah, would I consider Gregory Peck? Are you kidding? I said, I'd do anything to have him. He said, well, look, he's going through a bad time in his life right now. And I want to get him working right away.

and I want to get them working right away. And if you were really going to make this not a horror film but more of a suspense film, he said, I'll introduce you, and I'll push for it. Greg had lost his son shortly before. He felt his son was murdered. They thought it was suicide. He was just going through a bad time. And we pitched him.

We went over and had just a delightful couple of hours with him and told him my approach to the film and what I wanted to do, how I wanted to do it. And I said, he said, well, when are you going to do this? I said, now. He said, what do you mean? I said, I want to go back to England and know that I have you and then we'll put this into play and you can be working within the end of a month. And he said, oh my God, that's wonderful. And we got Gregory Peck. Wow. Great cast.

Great cast. And you only had one argument with Peck. You did your research. Yeah, that's true. That's true. And what was it? He wanted to smash furniture and stuff. Well, it was a scene where he...

God, I got to remember back. It was a scene where he... I think he finds out his wife dies. He finds out his wife has died, and he's on the continent. She was in England. And he's in pursuit of some knowledge of possibly who his son really is, and he gets this message that his wife has died. and he gets this message that his wife has died.

And I had in my mind how I was going to shoot it. And this prop man came to me and said, listen, we have a problem. I said, what? He said, Mr. Peck came to me and he said, tomorrow when you do this shoot, he wants everything to be breakawayaway meaning he could break furniture or glass or i said why he says he wants to destroy everything i said that that's i said okay let me take care of this so i i met with him and i said greg what's your

approach to this scene he told me that he wanted to hang up the phone and then just destroy everything i said i don't i don't see it that way greg i said i think um maybe we come in on you and you've already heard this and you're living with the reality of your wife's death and who you think your child is and it's a totally different compassionate moment in your life and it's a totally different compassionate moment in your life and you just lay there and tell me the story

about what happened and he said no way and we get into this argument and I'm arguing with Gregory Peck Gregory fucking Peck this is one of the greats of all time and finally after this argument he turns to me.

He said, all right, I'll do it your way. You're the director. It's so wrong, I don't believe it. And he left because that was the morning shoot. And I had a way I was going to shoot it. It was all going to be one take, one very slow, long camera movement into his face. And David, David. Oh, Warner.

David Warner. Pardon me? David Warner. Right. From Morgan. Remember the great movie? Oh, sure. Suitable case for treatment.

Good man. Good movie. Great movie. For treatment. Good man. Good movie. Great movie. So I rehearsed them and rehearsed the guys, the camera and everything,

and we went home, and the next morning, Peck comes in, and he said, all right, what do you want me to do? And I showed him, and I said, it's all in this one take. And he looked at me and said, okay, let's do it. I said, he said, no, let's do it. I said, okay. So I laid him down, put him on the spot, had the guys totally ready. And I said, I'm going to go. He said, go.

So I gave him an action action and we ran the scene and we did it really slowly and I'm panicked because if the guy, the camera focus puller, misses a beat, I'm going to have to do it again and again. But everybody was so nervous because I was so uptight. We hit it perfect on one take. And it was over. And I said, thank you, Craig.

It's perfect. He said, well, I can do better. I said, no, you can't. He says, I can do better. I said, no, you can't. I said, you did it once. You did it out of anger at me. And now that frustration was there on the screen.

I said, no, that's it. It's over. And he was angry at me again and he left. And I've got to tell you something, how that movie had an effect on me. Ever since seeing that movie, whenever it's an overcast and very windy day, I always think, oh, this is like that scene in The Omen. It's a great scene.

Yeah. You know, that whole movie was done for, I think, was it a million or two million bucks, Terry? One million dollars and an extra $20,000 to get Jerry Goldsmith as the composer.

Yeah, he adds a lot, too. Gregory Peck, I guess, wound up the most successful in that movie financially. Oh, my God. He got a very good deal on that movie. Nobody thought it was going to do anything. It was a little film. And he was a very humble man, a very good man. He bought a beautiful new home. And that New Year's, he invited a lot of people to his tennis court.

He had a New new year's eve party and um to to introduce them to his new home and while we were there um and he made a little gregory peck speech he said i want to thank tick toner and harvey bernhardt who was the producer and he got up and he thanked harvey and for buying him this new house, which was really, again, a wonderful feeling. And because he had asked for a point in the picture or a few points. I think whatever it was in those days, it was a lot more than a point. Yeah. I think the whole thing was that he got a big hunk, and the picture did amazing box office.

And I guess they gave it to him thinking, that's a dopey, low-budget horror film. Exactly. It's not going to make any money. Well, I'll tell you something. The guy that ran that studio at the time was Alan Ladd Jr. Yes. And Jay Cantor. And they believed in that film more than my agent.

And I didn't know anything about films. That was really my first big opportunity. But they kept telling me, don't take cash, take points. This is the head of the studio talking. Wow. And they were right and I was wrong. Or my agent at the time. So it was like a training program for me.

I watched it last week, Richard, and it's, you know, I guess what they used to call B-movie material, but your direction of it is so classy. It's like a Brian Forbes picture or something. You remember saying it's on a wet afternoon? I sure do. It's like you have this very artistic approach to the material,

which I think makes the movie. It's beautiful to look at. Thank you. Thank you. It was such an important film to me. And as they have all been, the word style kind of comes out of the first reading of the script.

Because you see it when you read it. And it never changes. If it changes, it's time to leave the project. Is there proof? Oh, yes. He bears a birthmark, a sequence of sixes. So says the Bible to all the apostles of Satan.

He doesn't have it. He must have it. I've bathed him. I know every inch of him. If it is not visible on the body, it will be beneath the hair. Remove it. You must be devoid of pity. And the woman? She is an apostate of hell. She will die before permitting this. You always see movies in your head, don't you? You always kind of put the movie together in your head before you ever get to the set. Yeah.

I read that about you. Yeah, I do, I do. I'm kind of set in my ways because I've seen it. But at the same time, I'm also open. There are so many people on a movie set and invariably the greater proportion have some sense of visualization

or something about the process or the emotions and you listen to people and

guy that makes coffee can make the movie best idea wins right that's yeah yeah that cast Lee Remick

go ahead and it always stayed with me also that scene with the nanny. Oh, yeah. Standing on the ledge of the building. This is all for you, Damien.

Yeah. Wonderful. That was Jack Palance's daughter. Oh, wow. Holly Palance. Oh, jeez. Holly Palance. Wonderful actress.

Yeah. And she happened to be, I had just done a TV pilot with Jack in LA. Was that Brock? And I was, yeah, Brock. Yeah. Oh, God, I remember that one. Yeah, sure. And I was going over and Jack said, my daughter's in London, look her up.

And I did, and she was a terrific kid. And I said, this is the perfect little part for her. And she did it. And we've been friends for years. Very chilling scene. Yes. That whole cast. Warner, we love.

We'd love to get him on this show, David Warner. Lee Remick. The great Lee Remick. Leo McCurran, who's just so wonderful. Well, we had Leo in Ladyhawk. That's right.

That's right. He shows up in Ladyhawk. That's right. He shows up in Ladyhawk. And what was Jack Palance like to work with? Another doll. Great guy. Scared the hell out of me. When I went to work with him the first time to meet with him, because he's Jack

Palance and there are overtones. It turned out to be just a great guy. Good sense of humor. And a pleasure to work with. I mean, he was taking a star of motion pictures and putting them in a TV series. And the time life is a totally different one.

And where we would be shooting 12 pages a day whereas in Features he would shoot three. He was right on it with us, right up to it. He was professional, much like Glenn Ford was earlier in Cades County.

Oh, Cades County was another show you did. That's right. I was telling Gilbert out here, I mean, of course, we read the list of all the screen icons that you directed,

but we have a real fondness for character actors on this show, Richard. We had Joey Pants here. I love him. Bruce Dern was here. Jessica Walter and Ron Liebman were here. We love these people. We love the character actors. And I was reading to Gilbert, Martin Landau, Richard Boone, Glenn Ford,

Raymond Burr, Carol O'Connor, George Kennedy, Vincent Gardena. I mean, this wonderful list. Ned Beatty, Terrence Stamp, E.G. Marshall, who we loved. Vic Morrow, of course, your old friend. What a wonderful group of great American character actors. What a great opportunity I've had. Incredible. Incredible, yes.

I remember the Leonard Nimoy. No, it wasn't the Leonard Nimoy. It was the Martin Landau. Martin Landau, the Twilight Zone. Episode of the Twilight Zone. That's Richard's. Right, right. Looking for the bomb. That's Richard's episode.

Yes. That's right. And just such another one. When it ends, you go, oh, my God. The Twilight Zones, when they would send you a script, and it would be delivered to your house or something, and for me to squirrel myself away somewhere and turn those pages, it was like reading the first great novel that ever came out.

Because every one of them was always a gem. And that one in particular was a, that was great. Martin Landau, I forget the heavy's name. He was a wonderful actor also. Great, there was a great opportunity. And as every Rod Serling script, if I were a young director today or a young producer, I would just go through that list and read and look at every one of those. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't.

I would read the scripts. You can get them. Because there's a movie in one in every five. I guarantee it. A new movie idea. A new movie idea from those. How about that? And so what was it like?

You had dealings with Rod Serling then? Yes. What kind of person was he to work with and to deal with? Well, when I worked with him, I was working with a couple of producers, and one of them was William Frug, who was a great writer, producer. And you'd meet with Rod and Bill. rod if you could see through the smoke he incessant smoker um but if you sat down with him and they started it wasn't a case you couldn't get a word in it was a case you didn't even try all you wanted to do was have him talk and invariably he would start by talking about the project you were about to do, his take on it, his attitude on it.

And he never asked you what are you going to do with it, but he would tell you what he thought about it and why we were making it or he was making it. And he was, again, you know, I've been been so you name those actors i've worked with them yeah what a list i'm in awe of it myself and you talk about the shows i did and the producers and and people will say to me uh i've said this before they'll say well you know you paid your dues i don't think i've ever paid dues. It's just been so great. And I'm so fortunate

to have done what I've done and to have worked with the people and the talents I've worked with that there were no dues paid. I owe everything. That's nice. I was saying before, our listeners didn't hear this part,

but we were chit-chatting before we turned the mics on that the Academy paid tribute to you recently. And there's you and Mel Gibson this part but we were we were chit-chatting before we turned the mics on that uh the the uh the academy paid tribute to you recently and there's you and mel gibson and renee russo and danny glover and you're very you're very touched and you're very humble and very grateful i i urge our listeners to go to youtube and watch it it's it was a much more i had no idea what it was going to be. Told me they were doing it. I really thought there'd be 40 or 50 of them. The people, maybe 50.

Turned out to be 1,000 people. That's great. And the room was full, and I couldn't put my mouth in gear because my mind was stuck. I couldn't believe it. in gear because my mind was stuck. I couldn't believe it. And when I listened to people talking, I don't think I'm a humble guy,

but boy, did they make me humble. It was very exciting, very emotional. And you had the right line to close the night. You said, I've been waiting a long time to say this. I'd like to thank the Academy. Oh, right. It was perfect.

We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast, but first, a word from our sponsor. And you did a few episodes among your many TV things of Wild Wild West.

Yes, yes, yes. Oh, my God. So I wanted to ask you, I was always like a big fan of Dr. Loveless. Miguelito Loveless. Yes. With Michael Dunn. Michael Dunn. Oh, dear Michael Dunn.

Yes. Could you tell us about, well, midget actor Michael Dunn? It really goes back to the producer, Greg Garrison. Greg was an incredibly talented producer and had the most bizarre wild ideas of anybody which were quite obvious and he put that show together and he put that cast together and I I was asked to come in on that to reshoot some of the pilot I think it was just for some new ideas. And then they asked me to do some of the shows.

And when you'd get into the preparation and see the people whose names were already established, such as his, it was always awe-inspiring. I mean, this wonderful little man, very fragile, quite honestly. He had terrible bone conditions and everything. I don't think, was he called a midget? Well, in those days, I guess they might have called him a dwarf.

Dwarf, I figured, but he had terrible physical problems. But he was a Yale graduate. Wow. Yeah, I know He was a Yale graduate. Wow. Yeah. I know he's a bright fellow. Yeah. And he was always so much fun when he popped up on those shows. Well, he'd pop out of the ladies' skirts.

He was a great heavy. Yeah. But he was fun to work with, Michael Dunn? Oh, a delight. A delight. That's nice. Very articulate, very funny, very... Nobody

intellectualized on those things. We all knew what we were doing. And you kind of stated the script because it was so good. Man from Uncle 2? Same kind of experience? Same thing. There was Sam Rolfe, a great writer, producer.

He also created Paladin, Have Gun, Will Travel. Oh, yeah, Richard Boone. Yeah. Yeah. And that was Sam Rolfe. And did he create? I forget. I don't know.

I mean, you're taking me back and I'm lost. Of course. I mean, we're just... You're talking about how much... You guys have filled my head here. Well, you know, we tell people it's a little like This Is Your Life, where you get a whole retrospective of your career, except without the voices behind the curtain.

I'm hearing the voices. But you talk about how much fun you had, and I was starting to say, we do so many of these, and we do the research on these as well, and we go down memory lane. You know, was it just the time of your life, jumping around from assignment to assignment on these shows and working with these people?

I mean, you'd go from the detectives to combat to wagon train to Route 66 to the man from Uncle, to the Twilight Zone. I mean, it must have been great days. Well, the great part was, for some reason, I never got put in a corner. I could go from Route 66 and then some heavy dramatic show. Like Twilight Zone? Yes. And the next show that I'd be hard to do is Gilligan's Island.

Right, or Get Smart you did. Or Get Smart. Right. And you also were in a show, not a well-respected show by any stretch, and the theme song went, it's about time, it's about space, about two fries in the craziest place. Joey Ross.

Joey Ross. I think the plot or the premise of the show. Oh my God. That was a Sherwood Schwartz show. The Gilligan's Island show. That's right. Sherwood a Sherwood Schwartz show that Gilligan's Island played. That's right. Sherwood Schwartz.

It was just that bad. It was two astronauts land on a planet of cavemen. Well, I think they went back in time. That's right.

They went back. You're right. I was going to be tell me the story. Yeah. Right. Because Sherwood Schwartz loved to get,

he liked to make the extra money from the theme song, from writing the theme song that would tell you the story of the show, just like Gilligan's Island. That's right. He knew there was money in the theme songs.

And Joey Ross from Car 54. Oh, Car 54. Ooh, ooh, ooh. What is it? What was 54. Ooh, ooh, ooh. What was it? Yeah. Ooh, ooh, ooh. Oh, yeah.

Car 54, where are you? Oh, that's right. Yeah. And Imogene Coca was on It's About Time. Yes. Yes. And they were cavemen and cavewomen. Oh, right.

You know, I forgot that totally. We could take you back, Richard. Don't mention that to my wife. But I heard that, oh, no, it wasn't Schwartz. It was, oh, Nat Hyken. Nat Hyken. Yeah. Nat Hyken.

Who hated Joey Ross. What? He hated Joey Ross. What? He hated Joey Ross. Joey Ross was supposedly a crude character who had a penchant for hookers. And I don't know how well you knew him, but this is what we hear from co-stars from that show. This is an important story. He went into the White House. Joey Ross?

No. Stick with me. Stick with me. Touche. Touche. Touche. And there's, of course, a famous Hollywood legend that one time, like, Car 54 was being sponsored by, like, I don't know, Johnson & Johnson. Colgate-Palmolive. Yeah, yeah, one of those.

And the execs were there. Or Colgate-Palmolive. Yeah, one of those. And the execs were there. And so they wanted to make a good impression and invite them, you know, over to the set. And all the crew and cast said hello to them and were on their best behavior. And they passed by Joey Ross' dressing room. Here's where the gloves come off, Richard. And he was sitting there with the table wide open,

sitting in a chair, jerking off. As the sponsors walked past his open dressing room. It does relate to the White House. Yes, it does. And they were going, and it's an honor to have this next man, Joey. And it was like, oh,

okay, we'll come back later. What about two other funny guys that you work with that we talk about a lot on this show? Buddy Hackett and Rickles. You directed in Tales from the Crypt. Yeah. John, I Hackett. Oh, yes. And Rickles, you directed in Tales from the Crypt. Yeah. John, I'm sorry, we just lost. Yes.

What can I tell you? They were a pleasure to work with. They were the kind of people that I couldn't wait for the breaks or the reset up so I'd have time to be able to sit with them and hear stories. Because all you had to do was

start one line and there was a great story for everything. Rickles was set up so I'd have time to be able to sit with them and hear stories. Because all you had to do was start one line and there was a great story for everything. Rickles was will there ever be anything like Don Rickles? Never. I don't think so. And I go way back with him as a, when he

was an entertainer and I used to play the Slate Brothers or the Hudson Brothers on La Cianica. Oh, the Slate Brothers, yeah. Slate Brothers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Don is Don. When I loved him,

he was not only one of the funniest, he was one of the brightest, interesting men I've ever known. And what about Hackett and Scrooge? Didn't he, wasn't he ad-libbing his lines?

Constantly. They all improv. I mean, given the opportunity, I always give them, be them humorists, comedians, drama. Once you have your scene and your intent and everything, I love to have the actors improvise. And when it comes to comedians, it's a world of improvisation. It's them. That's why you love them

because their personalities are just jammed waiting to come out with the line that fit at that moment, apropos. So those were two amongst many. Can I bring up two other comedians that you work with? And it was,

unfortunately, it was a difficult shoot and a difficult time for you. I think you'll know where I'm going here. That would be Jackie Gleason and Richard Pryor

and the toy. Yeah. That was tough. That was tough. Maybe I did pay dues. I didn't mean to take the show in a different direction, Richard. Richard had come off of his accident at about that time. That's where he lit himself on fire while doing coke.

Horrible. Horrible. And once they were together and things would go, it was delightful. But otherwise, it was tough. Jackie and his friends would consume a bottle of vodka by lunch. And once that was over, the rest of the day was almost impossible. So you got a half a day out of them. The booze was the problem.

Yeah, I'm sure. And personality-wise, I've heard stories about Gleason that he could be a total prick to work with. You know, actors are actors. We're all

and almost there's a great percentage of them comedians, actors, whatever. Although comedians are actors. Something is happening in their lives or something new and you are the new part and they're going to challenge you. And you've got to condition yourself to how to take that challenge. And there are times you hit it head on,

and there's times you hit it with a little bit of psychology and turn it around. But it does make the life of a director very difficult when he knows he is being challenged. And how are you going to stand up to it? And how are you going to handle it? Because it's going to infect the rest of the shoot on how you handle it at that moment. So, guys, some have been very tough. I'll bet.

So, guys, some have been very tough. I'll bet. And I heard Gene Hackman had a quote that he used to tell a director, just tell me faster, slower, louder, softer. That's all I want to hear from you. It ended up Gene Hackman and I had the challenge. We turned out to be wonderful friends. As a matter of fact, he did a movie called,

he played a director in. Oh, was it Get Shorty? No, Postcards from the Edge. Postcards from the Edge. Oh, yeah. That's right. With Carrie Fisher. Brilliant script. Right.

Brilliant. And when Gene was doing an interview, they said, did you research directors or stylize yourself after? He said, yeah. He said, I saw myself much as me, Richard Donner.

He said, I found the compassion for the character. For him to say that, for me, it was... That's great. What an honor. What a's great. What an honor. What a great honor. What an honor.

And I'd be remiss if I didn't bring this up. You worked with both Marlon Brando and Richard Pryor in your career. You know where he's going with this, Richard? I do. And according to the great legendary composer, Quincy Jones, how can I put this gently? You can't. Marlon Brando fucked Richard Pryor in the ass.

I don't know. I mean, you know, maybe Quincy may have been there because where else would he say it? It's bizarre, isn't it? I find't know. I mean, you know, maybe Quincy may have been there because where else would he say it? It's bizarre, isn't it? I find it ridiculous, but a lot of people say a lot of things. It's bizarre. There was no hint of it when you heard from either one? Oh, my God, no.

No. No. It's ridiculous. Brando never said to you, I have to leave early today. I have to fuck Richard Pryor. That never came up, huh, Rich? Yeah. Every night.

We got about 10 minutes left. I just want to ask you a couple of quick questions from listeners. We call this thing Grill the Guest. Mason Wood wants to know about Inside Moves, one of your terrific movies, which I just rewatched. Very small, quiet film that we want to tell our listeners to watch. And Harold Russell, who won an Oscar for the best years of our lives. You brought him back to the screen.

No, I didn't. You didn't? He won two Oscars. Oh, he won two Oscars. That's correct. That's the only man in the history of the industry that won two Oscars for the same role. That's right.

Yeah, because he was a kid from Canada, lost both of his hands in the Second World War. Yeah. It's a good movie, by the way. Thank you. I love that movie. It's a very special movie in my life. It's very good. David Morris, of course, who you used a lot,

who's terrific. I love him. But John Savage is a guy that we just didn't see enough of. I know. Did he win the Academy Award for Deer Hunter? I think he was nominated and didn't win it. I think Walken won that award. Yeah, Walken won.

But, I mean, that year when the Deer Hunter came out, everybody was talking about John Savage as the next big star. I don't know what. Oh, I do know what happened. He had a motorcycle accident. Oh, really? And I think it was neurological damage done. And it took a long time for John to come back.

And it took a long time for John to come back. And it's too bad because he is, was, and shall be, continues to be an extraordinarily special actor. I'm so surprised we're not seeing him. Yeah, he's good in everything. And you've made a lot of blockbusters, but I want to recommend to our listeners, both Inside Moves and Radio Flyer,

two of your smaller movies. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And they're both very, very well done. Gilbert does want to hear about this before we go. Since we're talking about people... I want to hear about Marlon Brando fucking Richard Pryor in the ass. Since we're talking about... I'll send you the Polaroids.

We're in the air. Sister, we're talking about... I'll send you the Polaroids. We're talking about people who are deep in their cups. Is there a story early in your career about directing Lucy and Desi and William Crawley when they'd been bending the elbow? That's how my career got started, really. I was doing commercials for Desilu and I would also shoot the

commercials and opening for the Desilu show and in the morning it was Betty Furnes, Lucy Desi, Vivian Vance and Bill Froggle. Remember them all.

And that boils down to a bottle of champagne, a bottle of Jack Daniels, and vodka, which was usually consumed, again, by lunchtime. Wow. But they were professionals and great characters, and that was the time. And there was a wonderful producer who I was doing these commercials for, and he had a good friend named Ed Adamson who was doing the Steve McQueen show, Wanted Dead or Alive. Oh, yeah.

And he was over visiting on the set, and after he watched me with those five, he came over and he said, do you think you could work with Steve McQueen if you could work with all of them? I said, oh, my God. We were actors together in New York. Sure. And he hired me to do my first Steve McQueen show, which turned my career around. That's great. So, again, you paid some dues.

Yeah. What always struck me is like back then, everybody drank, but no one was considered alcoholic. By them, they were, I think, alcohol alcoholics by everybody but knew them but themselves. I mean, they would talk about their friends who were alcoholics. And they were consumers. And what was Steve McQueen like to work with? Interesting. Good guy. Um, he put me through my paces the first time because he, a lot of us hired to work with him.

He didn't want to work with me because he felt I was an actor, not a director. And, um, but, um, he, he put me through my challenges that It ended up, I beat him. We got along well. And I think I did a half a dozen of his shows. Yeah. At least. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You want to wrap, Mr. G?

What do you think? Yeah. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. with my co-host Frank Santopadre, and we have been talking to Bronx-born Richard Donald Schwartzberg. Ah. He was going to get to that. 41st Street and White Plains Road. I love that.

So a Jew, a legendary Jew director. Fuck you, Frank, with your goddamn fucking ginjo. A couple of good Italian directors over the years. Richard, wouldn't you say? I would say so. Yeah. Richard, you're the kind of guy we could talk to for six hours. I barely got through half of my cards.

We didn't get to Ladyhawk or Goonies or the Lethal Weapon movies. And we could just keep going. Maybe you'll come back and do this with us again and do a part two. I'd love it. I'd really like it. You guys are great. Oh, it was such a blast. It has been anglicized Richard Donovan. He does this with every guest.

Oh, he does? Well, anyone who's Jewish and has changed their name. And as Richard's. He changed his, didn't he? Yeah. I wanted to make it more Jew-y. And as Richard swore to us earlier

in the show, he witnessed Marlon Brando fucking Richard Pryor in the ass. Bless you for that, Richard. Oh, well, what the heck. Richard, I want to thank you for all you've done for animals

and animal rights. And I'm missing your fur button, your anti-fur button. But going all the way back to the goldfish and the omen that you painted, the sardines that you painted orange. You didn't want to kill live fish.

So God bless your heart. Bless you. Thank you, guys. I've got to go back to New York. I had to come all the way out. I just realized you're in New York. I had to come out all the way from New York to here. I didn't know it. Now I'm going back to my home. Are you coming back here at any time? Yeah, I live there. I just

left there to come out here. They told me I had to come out here and do this here. Oh, come on now. We'll do this live if you're ever in New York. You're on. Okay, pal. Thank you so much. Thank you. Oh, shit. They told me I had to come out here and do this here. Oh, come on now. We'll do this live if you're ever in New York. You're on. Okay, pal. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks, guys.

Thrill for us. Bye. Thank you. Bye.