Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Ron Leibman and Jessica Walter Encore

Episode Date: November 22, 2021

Gilbert and Frank celebrate Thanksgiving by giving thanks for one of their most cherished episodes and two of their favorite guests, the late, great (and greatly missed) actors Ron Leibman ("The Hot Rock," "Where's Poppa?", "Angels in America") and Jessica Walter ("Play Misty for Me," "Arrested Development," "Archer"). Also in this episode: Ron stars in the Mad magazine movie, Jessica wrestles a woman (or two), Gilbert covers Bobby Vinton and Jerry Lewis "borrows" from Harry Ritz. PLUS: "Amy Prentiss"! Praising George Segal! Remembering Art Metrano! "Zorro, the Gay Blade"! The return of Rickie Layne and Velvel! And "Won Ton Ton, the Dog Who Saved Hollywood"! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Watch free on CBC Channel. Hey Loyalists, Frank here to introduce another Best of GGACP. We're taking a very short one-week break for the Thanksgiving holiday. And since it's the season for gratitude and giving thanks, we're going to post an episode that we're especially grateful and thankful for, and that is our 2016 interview with the late, great Ron Liebman and Jessica Walter. Now, I realize this is saying a lot, but this may actually be my favorite episode out of the 400 shows that we've done. At the very least, it was the most pleasurable and rewarding experience Gil and I ever had recording a show.

I think you can hear it in our voices when you listen back to this episode. And by the way, a special thanks to former engineer Frankie Verterosa for helping facilitate this one. Ron and Jessica were just the perfect guests. They were funny, they were silly, they were lighthearted, they were open books. But most importantly, they really understood and appreciated what we were going for. The career tribute, the gratitude, the whole point of this podcast, really. And I've told this story before, but Ron took me aside at the elevators after this recording, and he said, this show is special. Don't ever stop doing it, which is something I'll never forget. Now, as you guys know, we lost Ron back in 2019, and we lost Jessica just this past year,

which makes this episode extra meaningful in a way. I have to say, it's emotional for me to sit and listen to these older shows and to hear all the love in the room while also having to accept the fact that these terrific people are gone now. I actually regret not asking the two of them back for a second time, but hey, we do have this one, and it's a show, and as I said, more than just a show, an entire experience that I'll treasure. So happy Thanksgiving to all our listeners from Gilbert, Dara, yours truly, the entire GGACP family. And we'll see you next week with a brand new episode. Until then, enjoy your family and friends, and enjoy this wonderful trip down memory lane, this love fest with the great and game for anything Ron Liebman and Jessica Walter. Hi, I'm Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast.

I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and we're once again at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Furtarosa. Now, if you think when we have one guest, these introductions are long, I can pretty much tell you we could have a cab waiting for you after there'll be no time for the ad valentine. It's a two-pager. Yes. It's a rare two-page intro. Our guests this week are two of the busiest,

most versatile, and most accomplished actors of their generation. Jessica Walter has starred in Broadway plays and musicals, appeared in police dramas, situation comedies, soap operas, and variety shows, and appeared in films like The Group, Grand Prix, Lilith, Tape Heads, The Flamenco Kid, The Slums of Beverly Hills, Bye Bye Braverman, and of course, Clint Eastwood's directorial debut. Play Misty for me.

Her numerous, and I do mean numerous, TV appearances include The Fugitive, Mannix, Love American Style, Columbo, Ironside, Hawaii Five-0, Dinosaurs, Coach, Just Shoot Me, The Big Bang Theory, Retired at 35, Saving Grace, and Amy Prentiss, for which she won an Emmy as an Outstanding Lead Actress. the boozy socialite Lucille Bluth on this beloved comedy, Arrested Development. And she currently stars in the hit FX series Archer as the headstrong spy mistress, Mallory Archer. Ron Liebman is... Bravo, bravo. Should we have an applause? I love him. He's just...

He moves me deeply. I heard he passed away. Is that true? This is our in memoriam part of the show. Amazing. Let him do the intro. I don't care about it.

Let's just get to the interview. Radley Minnis, an award-winning performer with stage credits, including Rumors, I i ought to be in pictures we bombed in new haven the merchant of venice winning a tony for his powerful performance as roy cohen and the pulitzer prize winning play angels in america tv appearances include Police Story, The Practice, Law and Order, Murder, She Wrote, Friends, and The Sopranos. He also won... It's the saddest thing I've ever heard. He also won an Emmy for his role as the ex-con-turned-lawyer in the CBS series Cars.

And a show he also co-wrote and co-created. And he's been in memorable films like The Supercocks, Slaughterhouse-Five, Norma Rae, Far Lap, Zorro, The Gay Blade, Night

Falls on Manhattan, Garden State, and two personal favorites on this podcast, The Hot Rock and Where's Papa. Douglas, Zero Mostel, George Segal, Helen Hayes, Charlton Heston, Burt Lancaster, Gene Hackman, and Robert Redford, and worked with iconic directors like George Roy Hill, Arthur Hiller, John Frankenheimer, Herbert Ross, and Sidney Lumet. Please welcome to the show our very first married couple. Let's see how the night goes. The jury's still out. The jury's still out is right.

And the most successful acting duo since Lunt and Fontaine. Jessica Walter and Ron Ron Liebman. Bravo. You know, Neil Simon said we were the Polish Lunts. Oh, I love that. We were in rumors together. He said, you're the Polish Lunts.

I love it. And I was talking to you right before we went on. I just wanted the audience to... When I was a kid, me and my two older sisters, Arlene and Karen, lived in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, and we would go. I don't know. Maybe it was filming two days or three. We would walk over to the Brooklyn Museum to watch the car crash in front of the Brooklyn Museum for the movie The Hot Rock. What a lonely child. You have no idea,

Ron. Trust me. If I had a good social life, I wouldn't know at least. That's right. Me and Frank are basically products of a terrible social life. We've talked about The Hot Rock on this show. You were Merch, the driver. Yeah, I was

Merch, the driver, yes. I had to learn how to drive one of those 37 wheeler things i actually had to learn that and i did uh it was an interesting bunch of people george siegel and robert redford paul sand and zero i got to work with uh with zero who i adored well we shared a trailer. They asked me if that was all right. They were trying to save some money. So I said, sure.

And I couldn't wait to meet him because I had such a crush on him. I had seen him in off-Broadway things like Ulysses in Nighttown, of course, in Fiddler by that point. And I'd come into the trailer, and he'd hide behind his New York Times account, and he wouldn't say good morning. And he had a driver and a dresser who worked for him, and I'd say good morning, and he wouldn't talk to me.

So I'm sharing a trailer with two guys who are not talking to me. I don't know why. And I came in the second day, good morning, silence, and I see Zero hiding behind a New York Times. I don't know why. And I came in the second day. Good morning. Silence. And I see Zero hiding behind the New York Times. He didn't say anything. I asked the AD, I said, am I doing something that's offending these people? I said, oh, you don't know. The guy who drives for him can't speak. And that's why he hired him years ago. He doesn't speak. He doesn't hear that well. And Zero, he said, I can't speak and that's why he hired him years ago he he doesn't speak he doesn't hear that well

and zero he said i can't explain so the third day i walked into the trailer and i looked at the little guy i looked back at zero who was hiding i said to the little guy will you shut up and the time started shaking, and he was laughing, and we became friends. Oh, wow. That's a good one. That is a good one. He was an interesting man. We had his son on this show.

We had Josh Mostel. Oh. Yeah. We're both Zero fans. Yeah. I loved him. I really loved him. Did you ever see his paintings?

He was a wonderful painter. I never did. That's how he worked his way through the blacklist. He had to sell. He could work nightclubs, some nightclubs, some cabaret stuff. But he couldn't be in films, couldn't be on major networks. A professor of mine in

film school was actually, was roomed with Zero, and they were blacklisted together. A man named Arnaud Dussault. And yeah. We've talked, the blacklist comes up a lot on this show. We just talked about it Dussault. And, yeah. We've talked, the blacklist comes up a lot on this show. We just talked about it with Lee Grant. Oh, yeah.

Great part of her life. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Wow. And it's funny because when the Hot Rock came out, it was like the two new guys, I mean, everybody knew Redford and Siegel. But the two new guys were you and Paul Sand. Yeah. And it was so much fun to watch the both of you.

Oh, thank you. Terrific heist movie. Peter Yates, right? Peter Yates? Yeah. He had just done Bullet, I guess? Yeah.

Interesting choice. We actually went up in the helicopter. There was a camera there and the doors were off. But you were in a... I was terrifying. I'm a Jewish kid. We do not

go up in helicopters with open doors. I guess the Israeli army does, but I didn't want... And they were building the World Trade Center then. And one of the shots was the helicopter going up, flying outside the World

Trade Center. So it's imprinted in my mind. When that horrible day happened, I said, oh my God, I brought all of that back. It was fun. It was fun to make the movie. And it should have been more successful. It was a wonderful story that the old man, Daryl Zanuck, ran the studio, Fox, and he was booted out by his son. What's his son's name? Richard Zanuck. Richard. Yeah, the Jaws producer.

So this was Richard's movie. Richard wanted to do this. So when Richard took over the studio, this was his film. Just before the film was going to open, the father came back into power and threw Richard out and threw the movie out too. Redford called me once from Boston, the other piece of the film. He said, we just opened with not one commercial on television and nothing in the papers except the reviews. What a shame. It's such talent. It could have been much more successful.

It's a very funny movie. It's highly regarded today. And is it Moses Gunn? Moses Gunn, yeah. He's like an African. Sure, sure. William Goldman wrote the script. In fact, I even remember the theme song.

Of course you do. Yes. Dun, dun, dun. Dun, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Dun, dun, dun. Dun, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Ron is staring at him. You've not been in many musicals, have you? He does this on the show.

He remembers. He recalls old theme songs. In fact, another theme song I remember. Well, now both of you worked with Sidney Lumet. Yes. Yes. Twice I worked with him. She worked with Sidney twice, yes.

What was it like? What both of you recollect? Well, Gilbert loves Bye Bye Braverman. Yeah. Speaking of George Segal. Yes. That's right. Yeah, yeah.

An amazing cast in that movie. Yeah. George and Joseph Wiseman. Sorrel Book. What's it? What a great memory. Oh, when they get old, it's so sad. You know, Alan King.

Yes. That's right. He was the rabbi. Alan King, Zora Lampert. Right. Phyllis Newman. Let's see. There was, oh, Jack Warden.

And Jack Warden. Right. Sidney loved Jack. He's see. There was, oh, Jack Warden. And Jack Warden. Jack Warden, yes. Sidney loved Jack. He used him in many, many movies. And after that, I did the group. No, actually, I did the group first. And then I did. And, you know, I was a replacement in Bye Bye, Brave Him.

And he called me. He said, Bubby. He called me Bubby. Bubby, I need a favor. You know, it was a cameo role. He said, oh, I shouldn't tell this story, should I? You want me to tell? No.

Because I don't give a damn. I'm retired. I couldn't tell. He doesn't care. Anyway, let's just say for reasons unknown, I replaced Maureen Stapleton in that role. You're very similar in type role. I can't say. You're very similar in type.

And I thought it was so strange. Right. I thought it was so strange because I was like 26 years old. You know, we're not exactly the same type, but what an honor to replace Maureen Stapleton. Right. She's a wonderful actress. Sure. And I remember with Bye Bye Braverman, it was,

Have you seen Braverman dancing? He was the king of the ball. Oh my God. Whirling and twirling and prancing. Doing the Braverman waltz. Da da da da da da da. Yes. Oh my God.

Da da da da da da da. Brilliant. Da da da da da da da. I like the lyrics Brilliant. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I like the lyrics here. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Bum-bum. Bum-bum. Oh, my God.

This is why you're doing this show. It gives you the opportunity to sing. Absolutely. Could you do Rock-A-Boy, Your Baby with a Dixie Melody? Oh, my God. You figured him out. That's impressive. Rock-A-bye, my baby.

Sounds like Jerry. Yes. With a Dixie melody. Wait, I have to tell you something. That's where you sing. Wait, wait. Ron, Ron. Ron does Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin together.

Listen to this. I want to talk loud. You're going to have to hold it down, Jerry. You don't want to hear this. You're going to have to hold it down, Joe. You don't want to hear this. Yeah, we do. I could do Renee Taylor and Joe Bologna talking. Ronnie, do Cary Grant. I can only do Cary Grant sneezing.

Yeah. Want to hear Cary Grant sneeze? Yes. I actually did this on The Tonight Show because Frank Gorshin was on. And I said, I feel so out of it, I need to do an impression. Johnny, would you like to hear Cary Grant sneezing? And he looked at me strange, and I went, oh, choo-choo-choo.

That's great. Let's hear the Dean and Jerry run. Give us a little bit. We already did it. Oh, okay. No, you know what he does? Like, my brother, for instance, two days ago had a birthday, so we always call him and sing.

And he sings Dean and Jerry. No, I don't want to do that. Oh, I want. But we have to hear that. It's so funny, Ron. Even if it's two lyrics. It's two, three lines. No.

Do a little Jerry for Ron. Yeah, you do Jerry. Yeah, he's got a great, he does a great one. Let's hear it. Jerry for Ron. Yeah, you do Jerry. He does a great one. Let's hear it. Oh, it's a thing with the patient and the high and he's walking

with the high and the low. Very good. Bravo. It's good Ron didn't do it. We don't want to follow that. Yes. You can't follow that. No, you can't. You and me, we're gonna be partners. You and me, we're gonna be be partners. You and me, we're going to be pals.

How's that for a singer? When was the last time you were asked about Bye Bye Braverman in an interview, Jessica? It's been a while, huh? He brought it up maybe the fourth show we did. I can't get over it. I'm so impressed. I don't think anyone's ever asked me about it. There you go.

But it was a good movie. It's one of those films that Sidney Lumet himself admits was not a perfect film. But it's one of those when it's on TV, I have to watch it. It's one of those films that grabs me each time. Bye Bye Brave Men is way up there on that list. Oh, I'm so glad you think so because I sure enjoyed the experience. We've talked about Lumet a lot on this show. We've talked about The Verdict. Yes.

We've talked about you're a big fan of The Pawnbroker. Oh, yeah. Who isn't? Yeah. The group. Oh, yes. Have you seen the group? Sure.

The group was good. You were Libby. I was Libby in the group. And the advertisement was, ooh, was, I just knocked the microphone, Libby with a big red scar for a mouth. They had like the eight girls, like in a little horseshoe, each picture. And that was my title. And I remember they used to say the biggest star in a Sidney Lumet film was New York.

Right. True. Absolutely. He knew how to film New York. Right. True. Absolutely. Absolutely. He knew how to film New York. He sure did. It was an amazing thing. Well, they're like time capsules.

You go back and I just watched Dog Day Afternoon and you go back and watch them. Oh, my God, yes. And you really see the city. Yeah. Pawnbroker 2. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, Dog Day Afternoon and Bye Bye Braverman. Serpico. Yes, Serpico. They were all over Bye Bye Braverman. Yes. We were all over Bye Bye Braverman. They were all over the place. Yeah. Cemetery in Queens. And speaking of the group.

Yes. Didn't Mr. Eastwood see you in the group and decide that you were. You know, they wanted the studio. It was universal. They wanted Lee Remick because they had they owed her pictures. And he told me that later. But anyway, he just felt he had seen the group. And actually, he was looking at somebody else in the group.

I won't say who. Not Maureen Stapleton. No. She wasn't in it. No. I know. But he thought I would be right from seeing Libby. Was playing Misty for me?

And this is trivia I just found doing a little. And I hope this is true. Was it based on an incident that happened to Gene Shepard, the radio host? You know Gene Shepard? Yes, of course. I remember him very well. No, I think it was. Is that erroneous information?

I think that's erroneous. It was written by a woman named Jo Himes. Yeah, Jo Himes. I've never heard that it was related to Gene Shepard. Interesting. Now, the actress, Brenda Himes. I've never heard that it was related to Gene Shepard. Interesting. No. Now, the actress, Brenda Vaccaro. Oh, she introduced us.

Oh, yes. Yes. That's what I'm bringing. Yes. You know, from Midnight Cowboy and a bunch of films. The best. I heard she pretty much forced you two together. She said, go out with Chinese, with Ron, with us, with her husband at the time.

You don't have to marry him, so of course. She came to Australia. I was doing a film in Australia. Well, not she, me. The kid over here. Because we're talking about Brenda. Beautiful girl. But let me just say this before that.

Is that Brenda and Ron, this is good trivia. Brenda and Ron were doing Zorro the Gay Blade in Mexico, and for Christmas break, you know, he lived in New York, but it was closer to stay. She invited him to her house to stay there, and she always had a huge Christmas party, you know, with 800 of her closest friends. So she invited Ron and she invited me.

I came with my whole family that was visiting from the East. Blah, blah, blah. Hello and goodbye. Nothing happened. And then she called and she said, you must go out with Ron. And we started talking on the phone. You would call her like at

5 o'clock every day and I would pick up knowing it was you. It was a way to get to know you, and we became phone pals. Didn't you run up a crazy high phone bill because you were talking long distance? No, we weren't long distance. That was in Australia. Oh, I didn't know it was in Australia.

All the phone bills in Australia. She used to call me in Australia, and for $42,000 a minute, she would say, do Walter Brennan talking to Gary Cooper. Do it, do it, Roddy! That's great! Now, you've all heard Walter Brennan. Of course! But you've not

heard him talking to Gary Cooper. No. Hey, boy. Hey, doing, son? Okay, Paul. There's not a big call for him. Would that be the Westerner or Pride of the Yankees? It's good. That's great.

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But she wouldn't leave the two of you alone until you got married. She was very instrumental in, you know, she's a wonderful person and a great friend. And I said, that's the best thing you ever did for me was introducing me to Ron and pushing it. Oh, this is a story about Australia, which he was about to tell. He went to do Farlap in Australia. Oh, yeah. And he invited me to go. Now, I had been in Australia twice.

Once for the love boat. We did the real cruise. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Two hour love boat, we did the real cruise. Oh, wow. Yeah, two-hour love boat. And once a year, they did like a real cruise. So we did the Fiji Islands and we ended up in Sydney.

And the second time was a pilot. Oh, is that later? Aaron's way in Adelaide. But anyway, so she said, you know, I said, Ron invited me to come to Australia. But, you know, it's the other end of the earth. What do I need this for? She said, you will go. It is an investment in your life.

She was right. And wasn't there a clunky proposal, Ron? I read somewhere there was. You referred to it as a Jerry Lewis proposal. It was. That's how I referred to it. It was a proposal on New Year's Eve in my New York apartment. She was still living in California.

I never gave up my New York apartment because I didn't like it. We still live in it. It's been remodeled a little bit. But anyway, I was in a very long white bathrobe. I'd taken a bath. And she was seated in the living room. And my plan was to get down on one knee and then put out the little box in my hand

and open the box and offer her the ring and ask her to marry me. So I tripped on the front of my bathrobe. Hey, lady! Went right into her. Just humiliated myself. I was so nervous. And I said, and you can do the punchline.

I'll do my part. And the box was still in my hand and I was shaking. I said, will you marry me? And I said, if I say yes, can I see what's in the box? Nice. That was 33 years ago. Wow. 33.

We just celebrated 33 years. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. We've both been married before. So between us, we have about 110 years of marriage. But this is it. No more, huh?

Second time around, it's true. It's better for us anyway. And now you've worked with George Segal a few times. A lot. Me too. Both of you. You too. That's right.

Where's Papa? Oh, my God. That's right. Both of you. And Jessica did a sitcom with him. That's right. I did a sitcom and something else.

I don't know, but I called him up one day and I said, I can't get rid of you. Get out of my life. George is one of our dream guests for this show. Oh, I bet he would love it. He would love to do it. Woody, we'd love to have him. Tell him not to bring the banjo or you'll never get a word in.

That's fine. Leave me alone with the banjo or you'll never get a word in. That's fine. That's fine. I'm going to George and his banjo. Leave me alone with the banjo. I used to love him playing the banjo on the Carson show. You know, he even played the banjo on Retired at 35. I remember. We got that in there. It's probably in his contract.

Pathetic. I heard that the reason he would bring the banjo on those talk shows was it was very stressful for him to do the talk shows. It is for everybody. Yeah. And he felt like when he played the banjo, he was doing a performance of a guy having a great time. What an interesting thing to say. Yeah. That's an acting moment.

Yeah. I don't want George to think we're sucking up to him, but I have to say, for a guy that could do drama and comedy. Yeah, he's great. Yeah, and anything. Absolutely great. You know, and films like A Touch of Class and No Way to Treat a Lady. And just yesterday, Brother Rat.

Brother Rat, yeah. I mean, real range and funny. A lovely guy, too. A really, really lovely person. I love even little films that people don't talk about, like The Duchess

and the Dirtwater Fox. You know that film? It's very good. He's the reason I even got, I was always working in theater and I hadn't done

no film. And he came, we were friends, he came to see an off-Broadway play I was doing. And he brought Carl Reiner with him. And Carl came into my dressing room with George. And I said, would you like to play George's older brother in a movie? And he laid the script on my dressing room table.

Where's Papa? And that's how I started making movies, because of George. Sidney Hawkeiser, George's brother. We were just watching a little bit of it. Frankie, do you have any of the Where's Papa thing? This is a great moment.

Sidney! She sounded crazy. He is crazy, and she's crazy. My children's hitting. No hitting. Let him throw her out the window already. Mom, Daddy's biting. No biting.

You know, Sidney. Gladys, move. You know you're crazy too. Move. I think you like getting mugged every night. Will you move? No. Not tonight, Sidney.

I said move. Get out of here. No. Dad, Mom, they're kicking me. Get away, Sidney. Is it moved? No. Mom, they're kicking me. Get away from that door. I'm going to choke your child. You know who that child was? No, who?

Mel Brooks' kid. Are you kidding? Max Brooks? Yeah. Oh, wow. Who's now Max Brooks. How about that? Carl Lundum.

From Mel. No, I didn't know at the time. That movie, I mean, Gilbert and I talk about black comedies that they don't make anymore. It's very hard to make a comedy that dark. And you never saw the original ending, which was much darker. Yes, there was a different ending. Yes, when he went to see her in the old age home and she said, where's Papa? Right. And he said, Papa's home.

And he started to get into bed with her. This they cut. There was nothing. He could have just laid down next to her. Right. But the response to it was so negative from people. Obviously, they had problems, these people. And so they changed the ending.

I always thought the other ending was more apropos of the film. However... It turns a little sad in the end, too, with Sorvino is running the old folks' home. Can't you see I'm saving luncheon? Right. But the scene where you try to make it through the park, when you're... I can't say the name of the guy who was chasing me. Oh, you can say it

on this show. You can? Yeah, sure. Well, his name was Motherfucker. Right. Remember Gil? Motherfucker, not tonight.

Please, Motherfucker, not tonight. Please don't take my clothes off tonight. And the second time you go through in the ape suit. Yeah.

It's a hilarious movie and they really don't make comedies that dark anymore. Imagine a joke where the guy's choking his child to get his wife to move away from the door. So good. And I saw this quote from the playwright Tony Kushner.

And he says of you, of Ron, he is brave and theatrical in a way that no other stage actor is. That's true. How do I respond to that? Will you do more of your Jerry and Dee? Yes. Working you over, Ron. See, I played you a compliment. You know, it's true because Ron and I did Tartuffe in L.A. at the LATC.

And I was Elmire and he was Tartuffe. And after one rehearsal, I said to him, I said, is there nothing you will not do for a laugh? I mean, it was so. I said, are you seriously considering doing that? And tell him what it was. The thing with the shoelace. I can. Well, you have to really see it.

You can explain it. You can't explain it. You have to see it. You don't have any television cameras. All right. Well, I tried. We'll do it for us afterwards. They're supposed to rape her on a table.

Talk to? Or attempt. Attempt. The lady of the house on a table under which the husband is hiding. It's a great Moliere moment. So all through rehearsal, she would have on capizios to push me away with her foot, or she would have on sneakers to push me. And came to dress rehearsal, and she had these long laced boots, which I had never seen.

And it was a dress rehearsal where there also was an audience but we had never done it in full costume. So she put her leg up and I saw these long laces and I untied them and I licked them from top to bottom. It was the first clitoral joke ever done in downtown Los Angeles.

And you know what? It worked. I swear to God it worked or we wouldn't have ever done it again. That's great. Yes. They used that picture in the ad. They used the picture of you licking the shoelace in the ad. Anyway. And Frank sent me a note last night

because he knew I'd be excited by this. Yeah. You played Shylock in Merchants of Venice. At the public, yes. At the public theater. Can I ask you to do some of Hath Not a Jew Eyes? I don't remember. My memory is gone.

That's why I'm teaching. I only speak the truth here. If we got you any of it. I'll tell you the truth. I was a prostitute in Chicago. You didn't know that. There's all kinds it. I'll tell you the truth. I was a prostitute in Chicago. You didn't know that. There's all kinds of stuff I could tell you. What was Ruth Gordon like before we jump off Where's Papa, Ron?

She was very quiet. She was a legendary performer. Yeah, she was our mother. Ruth Gordon played George in Our Mother. Yeah, in Where's Papa. Yeah. I can't really say anything. She was there, but she can't really say anything.

She was there, but she didn't really talk a lot, and she was a wonderful actress. She was just a wonderful actress. Remember when she won the Academy Award at 80? Yeah, she was 72. Was it Rosemary's Baby? Yes. It was Best Supporting Actress, and she said,

this was her speech, I must say this is very encouraging. Oh, that's funny. She was 72 years old. We never knew if she was serious or if she was kidding. Well, she was kidding, obviously. I've got the Shylock speech here. Oh, for God's sake.

I don't remember it. I swear. We have it on the phone. You want to take a look and see? Just do one line. Yes, yes. Make him happy, Ron. Two lines, two.

Oh, my God. No, I really can't do it. He won't. All right, you know. I can't do it. That's how it is. Moving right along. Listen, he gave you Walter Brennan.

I know. What the hell do you want? And Gary Cooper. And Gary Cooper. Can you do Walter Brennan as Shia LaBeouf? Yeah. Hasn't had a Jew eyes. I want to ask Jessica,

and we'll keep it moving, but I want to ask Jessica a little bit more about Playing Misty for me. Oh, that was such a great role. Which I watched last night again, and I mean I've seen it many times. It's a terrifying character, but there's a lot of depth to the character. I mean, you manage to make—she's not a garden-variety psycho.

You manage to make her both seductive and sympathetic, which must have been no small feat. Well, you know, I just thought of her as the girl next door. I never thought of her as crazy or psychotic. I think that was the key. It was really she had to have this man or die. It was that simple. Right. It's kind of like an early fatal attraction. Yeah, I mean, fatal attraction owes a lot to her. Yeah was that simple. Right. It's kind of like an early Fatal Attraction. Yeah, I mean

Fatal Attraction owes a lot to her. It was. It was the first. It was. I mean, she's unstable, but you feel sorry for her. Oh, I'm glad. And she loves poetry. I mean, she's not... She loves Errol Garner, obviously.

The trick of playing villains is to get the audience to have sympathy for the villain. Is to find their vulnerability. That was the vulnerability. If she didn't have this man, she would die. Right. That's a strong goal. I've heard you say, too, that you like playing bitches better than Miss Vanilla Ice Cream characters.

Yes, yes. I've said that. It's true. You know, first of all, you have a much longer career if you're not playing little sweet sea ingenues. Right, right. And I remember I once went up for a John Wayne movie. I forget which one. Anyway, his son was the producer, Patrick.

Yeah, Patrick Wayne. And I was so sure I would get at everything. I didn't meet John Wayne, but I met Patrick and the director, whoever that was. And then I came back. The feedback was, we don't see her as the gal standing at the gate while he runs off into the sunset with the horse. We don't see her as that kind of gal. I never got those sweety parts. Good.

Thank goodness. They're boring. Yet I saw you in a Western clip of an episode called The Name of the Game. Oh my god! With Warren Oates, where you wrestle a woman. Oh! I don't remember that clip. Oh my god! It's on YouTube. People can find it.

But you know something? I also wrestled a woman in a thing called Women in Chains. It was a movie of the week. And Ida Lupino was the warden. And I was her helper. And that woman, Joyce, the blonde woman who was married to this... Joyce Van Patten? No, no. We know Joyce.

Anyway, I wrestled her. So I've wrestled a couple of dames. Gilbert just perked up. Yes. If you can make me a clip of this in a reel. I'd like to watch that myself.

Oh, my God. And you're like one of those actors who, with millions of movies, TV shows, stage productions, when, if you show a picture of you, they're going to go, oh, that's that guy from Friends. Yeah, Dr. Green. Everybody says that, oh, we know you from Friends.

That just tells you the power of television. Yeah. Quality problems. I didn't even want to do it when they asked me. But our daughters, oh, you got to do it. You got to do it. You got to meet those kids. You got to meet those kids.

You got to do it. So she pushed me into it. I wasn't going to do it. Oh, wow. I'm a very difficult person. You've probably seen that. She made me do Joanie Loves Chauncey. Oh, wow.

That's right. You did Joanie Loves Chauncey. She made me. Joni Loves Chachi. Oh, wow! That's right, you did Joni Loves Chachi. I said, Joni Loves Chachi. She said, Mom, Mom, I'll be on the block. Everybody will be talking. It was a big, hot show with kids. There is no show you didn't do, Jessica. That's quite true. Oh, tell them about the blue lighting.

Oh, you know, remember? Was it Universal? Universal and Paramount, too. It had this blue kind of lighting and film. Anytime that comes up, honey, you're on. The blue lighting on all those shows, Maddox. Blue lighting. Oh, interesting.

It's this little tint. It probably was cheap. Probably. Cheap film. It wasn't day for night, was it? They were just... No, it was a certain lighting of those 70s shows. I was doing research for the show, and we knew you'd done a lot of stuff.

But I said to Gilbert, there wasn't a cop show or a detective show or a medical show between 1965 and 1985 that you didn't do. I was really lucky. I mean— I really was, to work all the time. Yeah. Cannon, Banachek, McLeod, Quincy, Mannix, Columbo, Cannon, Alias Smith and Jones. Oh, my God. The late Pete Duhl and Mission Impossible and The Immortal.

And I mean, it just. Yeah. A lot of movies of the week. And a lot of movies of the week. Yeah. Black Market Baby. I thought I was marrying a high class boy. Her father played with the NBC scene. Played under Toscanini and I thought I was...

And on Honeymoon, what is she reading? I figured Pride and Prejudice. She's reading the June Allison story. I love those books. Me too. We read a lot of them for this show. Tell us a little bit about Amy Prentiss, which was a spinoff of Ironside.

Ironside. Yeah, yeah. Well, it was a two-hour Ironside, and it was not meant to be a pilot, but they liked the character. Wasn't it one of the NBC mystery movies? Yeah, it was in that wheel. They called it the wheel. And I got a call one day from my agent. He said, are you sitting down?

I said, ooh, what? He said they want to do it as a series in the wheel, like two-hour shows or an hour and a half. So we did it. It didn't last, but... Right. What did you do, four of them, and you won an Emmy? We did four two-hours.

Yes, I did win an Emmy. With Art Matrano, Gil. Art, the best! Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- I love him. I love him. The best. Our friends Frank DiCaro and Jim Colucci are here, and they're loving these references. I love Artie. You don't hear an Art Mitrano reference every day, do you, Jim?

And Helen Hunt played your daughter. Helen Hunt, it was her first job. Oh, my God. She was nine years old. Wow. And I knew then she was going to be special. There was something about her. And Ron, you were Jennifer Aniston's father.

Yes, and she sends me no money. Yeah. But the resemblance between the two of you is uncanny. Thank you. I'm getting an erection. Oh, my God. I'll be thinking about you tonight. What is an erection. Oh my God. I'll be thinking about you tonight. What is an erection?

He really... You'll tell me later. I love Jennifer. I love Jennifer and David. Most of my stuff was with Jennifer and David. And I enjoyed it.

Yeah. I said, God, you people work hard. I've pretty much stayed away from television as much as I could because I love the rehearsal process that you have in the theater. I love those four weeks of discovery and finding stuff and inventing stuff.

And you don't get that in weekly television. You learn your lines and you're thrown up there. I just did a play. Tell us about it. Tell us about it. Sorry, sweetie. No, that was great timing. Well, but we only had two weeks rehearsal.

That's why I thought of it. For Bucks County Playhouse. Yeah, you did Steel Magnolias? We did Steel Magnolias with Susan Sullivan and Patricia Richardson. It was such a great... And Marsha Mason directed. Wow, Marsha Mason. Glad to see her around.

The most wonderful person. Oh, we love Cinderella Liberty. Yes. And The Goodbye Girl. James Caan. Correct. I just did a movie with James Caan. As a matter of fact, Frank,

didn't we just do the ADR for James Caan movie? Frankie Verderosa. Did we work on that? Was it you? Wasn't it you? Last week. It may have been the other Frank. No, no, it was you. It was me? Okay. Yeah. I'll take it.

It was like five lines for ADR for Operation Insanity with James Caan. I remember Cinderella Liberty. One of our guests was Paul Williams, who wrote the theme song. That's right.

Do it for us. Okay. Oh, don't encourage him, Jessica. You're very kind, Jessica. You're very kind. So kind. Hello. What a simple way

to start a love affair. Should I jump right in and say how much I care? Would you take me for a madman or a simple-hearted clown? Hello, with affection from a sentimental fool To a little girl who's broken every rule. One that brings me up

when all the others seem to let me down. I cannot believe this. Did you ever hear anybody do Paul Williams? How long is his contract with this show? It's just been terminated. This is it. This is the final show,

We're here for the last show. He does a great Paul Williams, but we had John Biner on the show, and John, they did matching Paul Williams, or dueling Paul Williams. We sang a duet back and forth. It was so much fun.

Now, you won an Emmy for Amy Prentiss, and it got canceled, and this leads me to Ron, winning and speaking of winning Emmys for canceled shows, tell us about Cass. It ran one season. And then I won the Emmy Award, and I thanked CBS for the opportunity.

Television is strange that way. It was awfully strange, and I knew nothing about television. But I had this contract with CBS, and I was working in the theater. And they said, well, you've got to do something. We keep paying you. So I wrote the idea.

We had a deal. A deal with CBS. We don't say contract. We say deal. So people understand. Sorry, sweetie. So what did you want to know about it? I love the back and forth that they have worked out.

So the show got on the air. Oh, I know, because I didn't know anything about television. And there come the first Sunday night. It was on. It's about an ex-con who becomes an attorney. Yes, an ex-con, which is possible in certain states. And it was really a Les Miserables story that his past kept following him, all the negative people from his past

and he was trying to change his life. I always found that an interesting subject and what was my point? You didn't have a good experience. Well, you co-wrote the show and you co-created the show. I think the idea was that we only get Emmys for canceled shows.

Yeah. We've been nominated for other Emmys, and they were successes. Isn't that interesting? We didn't win them. And you were in a movie that's popped up on this podcast for all the wrong reasons. Oh, you're going for it, huh? Yes. Oh, I told him about that.

Which one? Up the Academy? Yes. Yes. Oh, you were warned. Just, you know, and I should warn the audience, this is not one of those so bad it's good. It's just plain bad. Now, so in that movie, you actually had your name taken off it.

It was a different script when I originally agreed to do it. You know who the director was? Robert Downey Sr. Yeah, Bob Downey. Of all people. Who you liked. I loved him. We were in this together.

But then, just before we began shooting, they presented a totally different script. And they put, what, Me Worry character from... Oh, Alfred E. Newman, yeah. I said, this is not what I signed on for. I thought of myself as a little classier than that, the fool that I was.

And I said, well, I'm going to take my name. They wanted my name above the title at that point in my career. And I said, you're going to have to take it off. I'm not going to do the film. And I said, well, what billing do you want? I said, let me see the film when we put it all together. And I had an idea. It wasn't going to be wonderful. You know,

Bob Downey Jr. was in it. Oh, yes. He didn't have any lines, but his father threw him in there. There was a lot of talent in the picture. Tom Poston was in it. Yeah, sweet man. And not only did you have your name removed, but there was a statue of Alfred E. Newman

in the movie that Mad Magazine had removed. I didn't know that. That's great to hear. We had a couple of editors here from Mad Magazine a few weeks ago, and William M. Gaines, the publisher of Mad, also paid something like $350,000 to have Mad's name removed. It wasn't that Mad's name was removed, but they removed all visual references to the mascot. That's a bad film.

Wow. Dear me. The sky is falling. That was a play Ron was in, Dear Me, the Sky is Falling. My first Broadway play. Dear Me, the Sky is Falling. Oh, tell the story! This is a great one.

She's no longer with us. She loved to control. She had a real control thing. And it didn't happen to me. She had a big stomach and she used to turn sideways and make hand gestures where she wanted the actors to move. The audience couldn't see her hand. And we opened in New Haven and and she got a big laugh, and it was an actor named Michael Bazelian who was on stage with her.

She wouldn't have done this with me because she knew I was nuts already, so she wouldn't have tried. But the audience laughed in a place she didn't expect, and she said to him, don't move. They're laughing. They're laughing. Don't move. Don't move.

It's dying. Now you walk across the stage. She's doing this under her breath. You're laughing. You don't like a ventriloquist. How would you like somebody doing it? No, she didn't do it with me. She had me fired every other day.

The producer kept rehiring me. I want to say one positive thing about Up the Academy. But, friend, this is the New York Times raved about Ron's performance. Vincent Canby said, Ron Liebman is magnetic in the role. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I found this while digging. Put your name back on, quick.

And I found another review where they referred to the eternally marvelous Ron Leibman. So there you go. I never read these. I'll send them to you. You know, the thing is about reviews, when they're awful, they last forever. And if you're in a play and they're wonderful, they always pick a moment they like. And if you read that, that moment is gone the next night. Because what you're thinking of

is the review rather than what produced that wonderful moment. You want to repeat that review, basically, I guess. It's in your head. You can't get it

out of your head. So don't read reviews. Yeah. Sing. I've heard actors say that in stage plays that they'll get a review on one line they do. It'll never be the same.

Yes. It'll never be as fresh or as what attracted the critic in the first place. So best to read them when the play closes. Or not at all. Or have people like you tell Ron how wonderful he was. I never read those reviews. Thank you for that. I'll dig it out for you.

Well, as long as we're torturing Ron, do we want to bring up, and he brought it up himself. Yes. Before we turned the mics on, we had mentioned that Bruce Dern had done the show, and then Ron said, I did a movie with Bruce Dern. It's a movie that has come up on this show before. One time, Tom, the dog who saved Hollywood. And I played Rudolph Valentino, whose name wasn't Rudolph Valentino in the movie. It was Rudy something or other.

I think it was Rudy Montague. Rudolph Montague. How wonderful. I do remember that. He did research, Ronnie. The character used to... It's not all on there. You really work. This guy sits here and sings his pathetic song.

Exactly. Awkward. And he does all the work. Why don't you try singing a little bit? I was hired for my voice. Rock-a-bye-a-baby with a Dixie melody.

What was the point about Juan Tonton? Juan Tonton, the dog who said, I met Madeline Kahn on that movie. That's a great cast. I met Terry Garr on that movie. I like Bruce very much. And we were both members of the actor's studio. And we said, what the hell are we doing in this movie?

Well, Phil Silver's an Art Carney you also acted with in that film. I don't remember. And Juan Tonton. There were a lot of people. Everyone. Zsa Zsa Gabor was in there. The Ritz brothers. John Carradine, Johnny Weissmuller.

Yeah, Rudy Valli. Harry Ritz, who was the lead of the three Ritz brothers who played the mountains and cabarets, was the guy they all stole from. Where Jerry goes, Harry Ritz was doing that first, making those funny sounds. And they all took for, Jan Murray told that story once. Wow. Everyone stole from Harry Ritz.

And I got to see them. I can't do it because we're not on television. But why they were so funny when they'd sing. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da I have to pull him back. And finally he went. There's a little Charlie Callis in there, too. You remember Charlie Callis? I do, indeed. I'm sure he used to do those kind of sounds.

If you ever saw Martin and Lewis, my parents were nightclub people. They loved to go to nightclubs. They just loved to go to the Copacabana. And I never understood why he always got a table put down in front because he was in the clothing business. But his partner was not in the clothing business. Oh. You see? So we got, and I got to see Martin and Lewis in their native habitat, which is where they began in Jersey, in the Copacabana, live.

Martin and Lewis live was something to behold. I know it wasn't classy. I know it wasn't sophisticated, but it was funny. Who did you miss in the Copa? Wink, wink. Oh, I was just going to get to that. My wife was a Copa girl. Did you lie about your age to become a Copa girl? I did.

Tell us about that. Well, you know something? I think it was 1957 or so. Anyway, Luba Lisa, whose real name is Luba Goodnick, she was in the—well, we all went to— Luba Goodnick. I love the name. Actually, she became quite well-known for a while before she tragically died in an airline crash at 26. But anyway, we went to performing arts high school, right two blocks away from here.

One block. And she was in the dance department. I was in the drama department at PA. And we used to go home on the subway together, which was then the BMT. We would take the BMT to Queens Plaza. She'd get off. I'd go further into Astoria. Gilberta, you remember the BMT and all that stuff?

Oh, my God, yeah. Anyway, so she said, oh, I'm going to go try out for the Copa. She was a dancer. I said, I'm going to try out for the Copa, and I'm so scared to go alone. Would you, like, go with me? I said, yeah, I'll go with you. So we go, and we go into the nightclub part, and there's a guy, you know, whatever, Luba walks across the stage.

Anyway, and this guy says, so, girly, come on, come on out here. It was really a guy with that kind of voice. And I said, but I'm just here with a friend. Come on, come on. So I walk across the thing. I had my school books in my arm. We didn't have backpacks in those days. And he said, you know, lift your skirt, of course, just above the knee in those days.

And I got the job. She never spoke to me again. Oh, my God. And you became a copa girl. She was a copa girl. Was Jules Podell still around in those days? Yes. But it was the summer, so we had people like Ricky Lane and Velville.

Oh, my God! That's come up on this show. That is the worst. Ricky Lane and Velville? Well, Paul Sch the worst acting show. That's come up on this show. That is the worst. Ricky Lane and Velville? Well, Paul Schaefer was on one of our first shows. Yes. They both spoke the same way. How can you be a ventriloquist?

How are you doing? How are you? I'm fine. How are you? Are you really fine? Yes, I am. It was the same voice for both the guy and the guy. I didn't quite get it.

They didn't have their big... Ricky Lane and Velville. Yeah, they didn't have their big Ricky, Lane, and Delville. Or Sullivan Act. The Great Ballantyne was a great act. We love Paul Ballantyne. He cut the tie up and put it in the hat and broke an egg and he'd bring it back up and it was a broken egg and a tie

that was dripping and he destroyed the guy's tie. You know, at the Copa during the summer they had did not go over. Mort S, at the Copa, during the summer, they had, did not go, Mort Saul played the Copa. Not a good booking. Not a good booking, but the summer they were desperate.

Yeah. I guess he was too. I don't know. I heard Carl Ballantyne when he was really old, he would get up in the morning and like the garbage men would recognize him. From McHale's Navy? Yeah.

Yeah, they go, you're Carl Ballantyne. Can we have an autograph or take a picture with you? And he goes, yeah, for $5. And they'd give him the $5 and he'd go to like a burger place and have lunch. He'd go to like a burger place and have lunch. I always thought Art Metrano was a little bit just maybe like a little homage to Carl Ballantyne. Because they both had the, well, Carl had the bad magic act and Art had no act. Art just had the handkerchief.

You know, the thing about Art that people don't realize, well, they do if they've seen him in a dramatic show. He's a wonderful actor. Wonderful actor. Wonderful. He was on Kaz, too. He was wonderful. Oh, nice, nice. I remember him in a short-lived series with Jamie Farr called The Chicago Teddy Bears. And Marvin Kaplan.

Remember Marvin Kaplan? Marvin, of course. We had him on the show a couple of weeks ago. Wow. Oh, my God. He was very big with the Screen Actors Guild. Yes. He's 90.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, he was terrific on the show. Yes, he's 90. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, he was terrific. Terrific guest for us. You're a fan of old comedy, Ron. Someone told me you were a Lenny Bruce fan, too. Oh, major. So was George Hamilton, which was a big surprise

when we did whatever that was. Zorro the Gayblade. Zorro the Gayblade. I thought George was going to be a jerk, a Hollywood jerk. He turned out to be the most sophisticated guy, and it turned out that Lenny Bruce was his favorite comedian. That takes a certain amount of sophistication, I think,

because I love Lenny Bruce. Now, you've never played in Lenny, I guess. I was asked to do it in London, and I couldn't do it. I was doing something else, yeah. It seems like it would have been a perfect time. Yeah, perfect for you. Cliff Gorman did it. Yeah.

May he rest in peace. Sure, Cliff Gorman. And then Dustin in the movie, Hoffman. Yeah. Can we ask you guys some questions that our fans sent us as we wind this down? Absolutely. And let you get on with your lives? God, this has been fun.

I'm just going to run through a couple of these quick, Gil, if that's okay. Steve Camilli, I just saw Jessica on stage in Steel Magnolias. Can you ask her if she has a particular standout stage experience? Hmm. Ron is pointing to it.

Oh, God. I was her stage experience. So many. You know, I don't know. It's strange. There was one play I did, photo finish, with Peter Ustinov. I was very young. And I can't explain it.

Very rarely, when you're on stage, you have this kind of surreal, ethereal kind of experience where you're one with the audience and it's like magic. I had a moment like that in that play. Do you remember this piece of music? Frank, do we have this queued up by chance? This is speaking of Jessica in the theater. I do. Stand by. You might get a kick out of this. Oh, my God. Why can't you behave?

Of course. Kiss me, Kate. Yeah. That was Michael Callen. You and Michael Callen. Is he still around? I don't know. Remember Michael Callen?

Oh, yeah. Mickey Callen. Mickey Callen. A lot of work. And look at the picture he's got going there from Grand Prix with an umbrella. Oh, my God. We do deep research here. We do.

You did that for television in the 60s? Yes, for Armstrong Circle Theater. Wow. Yeah, those were the days. With Robert Goulet and Carol Lawrence were the... Sure. They were married. They were married, yeah.

Here's a question. Julie Munchen. Sorry. They were married. They were married, yeah. Here's a question. Julie Munchen. Sorry. Go ahead, Jill. Here's a question that I want to, because both of you are such experienced stage actors. What do you do? Do you ever have those moments where you've been on stage and you feel like, I just don't have a grasp of this?

Like in some scene or the whole thing. You mean it was off that night or you never have a grasp of this, like in some scene or the whole thing. You mean it was off that night or you never had a grasp? Yeah, some maybe off that night or maybe you never felt like the character was totally yours or anything like that. Very little of that because I was always very careful about what I would do. If I had no connection, I wouldn't do it. I just would turn it down much to agents, chagrin, because they want you to do everything so they can make the 10%. But I wouldn't do a lot of stuff.

You don't get a medal for that. That was just for me. Just for me. I don't preach it for young actors who I teach all the time now no no but I sure have had those moments

where you think you're flying and there's nothing like it that's a good way to put it Ronnie like you're flying you're flying

absolutely flying very rare wow I had that in Angels I had that almost every performance because the writing of that character was so brilliant. And so, whatever.

We're talking about playing the nasty people. They're always more. Isn't Iago more interesting than Othello? He is to me. For the record, I was the voice of Iago. Oh, my God. Iago the parrot. I was the voice of Yago. Oh, my God. Yago the parrot. Yes, I read that about you.

We've researched you a little bit, too, you know. Now go back. We have looked you up. We Googled you. Just to see if he was okay. That's quite an interesting history. Yes, we're very impressed with you, Gilbert. Your childhood, you

were influenced by comedy deeply, yes? Yes. It really hit your heart. My first realization that life was, I did not have a particularly happy childhood. Not unusual as actors go. But what saved

my life was the Marx Brothers. Oh, yeah. We discovered the Marx Brothers. Oh, that's nice to hear. And people said, they're surreal. I said, no, they're not surreal. That's reality, man. That's the reality I understand.

Make that three hard-boiled legs. I didn't know he was such a gifted mimic. He really has. I haven't seen him do voices in movies. He's very good. You know, he's Ron Cadillac in Archer. I know that. Yeah. But I haven't seen him do voices in movies. He's very good. You know, he's Ron Cadillac in Archer. I know that, yeah. But I haven't seen him.

I didn't know he could do Walter Brennan in Groucho and Jerry. It's pathetic, isn't it? Gilbert got on stage at 15 for the first time. Doing what? Yeah. Yeah. Just some open mic night. Oh, my God.

Courage. Yeah, or stupidity. What? No, that's not courage. Yeah, you aren't stupid. I don't see you as a stupid kid. No, you're not stupid. You sing much too much.

You know, the first time... I see you as a smart kid. I'm serious. We've known each other a long time, and the first time I saw him on stage at a club called The Comic Strip, he was doing material about Ben Gazzara. Oh my God. And Norman Fell.

And I was one of those kids that read credits and watched, and I thought, who is this person that would get on stage? And I wondered how many people... Good for you. Yeah. Really esoteric references. He's a friend of mine. And to this day, I still do imitations of John MacGyver. Remember John MacGyver from Midnight Cowboy?

He'll do the voice. You'll recognize him. Do the voice. Heavy set guy. Yeah, he would be bald, heavy set. He'd usually be a pompous authority figure. And it was always, everything in this hotel must be run according to schedule. Yes, yes, I know who it is.

Absolutely know who it is. You should do an evening of obscure references. John MacGyver. A whole hour and a half. We hardly knew you. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. Here's one for Ron from Facebook.

Ron was unforgettable in Super Cops and Norma Rae. How did he like working in Opelika, Alabama? Opelika. Opelika, sorry. And he's played a lot of real-life characters. Has he ever met any? Yeah, I met the guy in Super Cops who was a cop. Oh, Greenberg.

Greenberg wound up in prison. That would have been a more interesting movie. But we like Super Cops. That's another one of those movies where you get to see old New York. And Norma Rae, I met Marty Ritt, had a meeting with Marty Ritt,

who should be on your list of wonderful directors. Yeah, also blacklisted. Yes. He did Sounder. He did The Long Hot Summer. Oh, I love his work. But I sat in his office and he said, I'm going to have to ask you to,

I know your career is where it is. We don't have to ask you to audition because if it doesn't work between you and Sally, we have no movie. It becomes a documentary about forming a union and that's not a movie. That's a documentary. What a smart man.

So I work with Sally. We never met each other. And it was one of those moments. We did a scene for them, and the chemistry, whatever you want to call it, it was there. And we have remained friends through the years. You were the union organizer, right? Yeah. I was the one out to get her and change her life. It was like Pygmalion Galatea's story.

And it was wonderful. That was an experience that is unforgettable, as Angels was in the theater, Norma Rae was. I'm a lucky guy, I just realized that. Your Tony speech is very touching, by the way. Watched it. It's on YouTube. Which is? Your Tony acceptance speech for Angels.

It's very short and sweet. Thank you so much. He thanked the 563 producers. Yeah. I want to thank the 563 producers. I think I gave you 30 seconds. Here's one for you, Jessica. Yes.

Greg Pair, P-A-I-R, please ask Jessica about her turn as Morgan Le Fay in Marvel's Doctor Strange movie. Oh, my goodness. Any memories of that? Well, I'll tell you. Memories. You know, she comes back as 500 years old or something in the end, and I had to have that face mask that they do. They build the old age thing. It's like have that face mask that they do they build the old age thing it's like claustrophobic what do they call that Ron the life mask you know a mask of

you and then they make it yeah it is a life mask yeah yeah I own a few of those of other actors and it was I remember that they like you have to be put in plaster. Plaster. Plaster. You know, and it dries on you. It's very frightening. They've done it of me where they, like, put a straw through your nose. Yes.

Oh, my God. And you do. You are lying there. And you're going, even if you're not claustrophobic. You become claustrophobic. Yeah. I remember that about it. And I thought it was a pretty good movie of the week.

Now they're going to do it, I hear, as a movie. They're doing it as a big budget movie, yeah. Yeah. I did that for Slaughterhouse-Five because the guy at the end, Lazaro. Yeah, you were the psycho. He could get, once again, onto the breach, dear friends. And at the end of the movie, he's an old man, so I had to do that. Oh, that was scary.

But those people are real artists who do that, the makeup people. Oh, my God. These are the guys at Universal. Did you do videos at Universal? They had a whole department for that. John something famous. John Chambers. Yes, John Chambers.

That I can remember. I can't remember my name, what happened yesterday. John Chambers. Now, John. That I can remember. I can't remember my name, what happened yesterday. John Chambers, I think that's the makeup artist who that whole Argo incident was based on. Yes, yes. Where they went to the Middle East and said they were, yeah.

Right. John Goodman played him. Yeah. Yeah. And since you both work for Lumet, which we talked about before, but we talked about the group, and I want to ask Ron about a good performance as the DA in Night Falls on Manhattan. Yes. He had seen me in Angels and wanted me to play this character.

And I love working with him and Andy Garcia. If you ever have a sweet guy on, get Andy. We'll try. What a lovely man. We'll try. Lovely and talented man. We're trying to get Dreyfus. Dreyfus was in that.

Yeah. Klinghoffer. He played Klinghoffer, right? He kept pushing his glasses. Do the thing that you did. Oh, I used to drive him crazy. Off camera. And it would swing around and I'd be in the shot

and he was walking around. I would stick a tissue in my nose. The camera, and it would swing around, and I'd be in the shot, and he was walking around. I would stick a tissue in my nose. The camera didn't see it, but Dreyfus would see it. Just trying to shake some reality into his performance. Stop it. He doesn't mean that. I'm teasing, Richard. Richard.

It's the truth. I was in a show with Richard. We're changing the subject right now. What did you do with him? Victory at NTD oh sure sure with Kirk Douglas and all those big stars

Helen Hayes Theo Bacall Helen Hayes oh you're one of the worst tell us what? yes that's all we want to hear

okay this is good so there I am sitting on the set waiting with Miss Hayes who was the first lady of the American theater. This was like 1976. And the AD comes over and he says to darling little Helen Hayes with her little gray hair, he said, excuse me, are you the teacher for the kids?

And I said, this is the first lady of the American theater tell them about it wasn't him, tell them about the sound guy you were working with a sound guy in the last couple of years and you said, you know like oh no, I know what that was that wasn't a sound guy

who that was it was an engineer you know what it was about the Judy Garland? Yeah. Okay. So I was up at SBV, my agents in L.A. long ago. Still my agents, the best.

And here that's Cynthia. And she is. And I go in to audition, you know, audition. Look how I'm looking over the microphone here. Watch this, Gilbert. Let me see. And I go in to audition. They have, you know,

one of these young up-and-coming agents who does the recording with you, you know, and he kind of runs the machine or whatever in those days. And I looked at the copy and I said, you know, what do you think about this?

It says, think Judy Garland. You know, they always do that. That's how I got arrested development, actually. He said, think Jessica Walton, my agent. Cynthia said, why don't I call and tell him that you'd like to do it? Okay, on the copy. So that's a whole nother story.

Anyway, so it says, think, I said, what do you think that means? And he said, who's Judy Garland? This is a person who's working at an agency, theatrical agency, who wants to be an agent and says, who's Judy Garland? I ask people. Here's two last ones, quick ones. Ron Lehman is unforgettable in a film called Your Three Minutes Are Up. Oh, my God. With Beau Bridges.

I would love to hear his thoughts on that one. We became very close friends, and we had a hell of a time. It was an independent, small-budget film. And I fell in love with Beau, and then, of course, we did Norma Rae together. And then he asked me to do a movie that he was directing, so we worked together three times. That whole family is a wonderful family, the Bridges family.

Yeah, really nice, good people, and we had a nice time. I don't know how many strange memories. We just had a good time doing it. Lloyd Bridges was in the Fiji, Australia love boat. I spent two weeks on a boat with him. You're also in the very

first episode of Flipper, which is the trivia. I was! I was in the first episode of Flipper, and you want to hear the awful what they did? I thought... This is my new favorite episode. It was actually, I think it was the pilot of Flipper.

But anyway, so we're out there on the sea and the basis of the story was that a helicopter had dropped some medical stuff and it didn't hit the boat. It went down into the sea. So Flipper has to go find it and bring it up. So they have a helicopter, you know, and out comes the sea, so Flipper has to go find it and bring it up. So,

they have a helicopter, you know, and out comes the dolphin into the sea. And I said, oh my God, that's so amazing. They said, well, he's a dead frozen dolphin. Then, they had Sandy, you know, the pelican. I said,

look how this bird doesn't move, and you know, it's not chained to anything. Well, we broke its wings. I mean, I couldn't believe it. Oh, that's horrible. Well, maybe I shouldn't have told that story. It's okay. We'll cut that one. We'll put that with

what is the public theater. Yeah, alright, alright. Although that is an interesting thing because it's kind of like how they used to kill horses in all those old westerns. There was no humane, you know, no animals were hungry. Well, you can make up for that story by telling Gilbert what Raymond Burr was really like. Oh, I like Raymond Burr. Because we're fans.

Of what, Raymond Burr? Yeah. You know, the best thing about when I would come home from Steel Magnolias, it's in New Hope, Pennsylvania, and the apartment that was offered had like three stations. And one of them is MeTV out of New Jersey. Oh, which we've been watching it, yeah. In Jersey. Which I love. And the best thing, I'd come home, get home about 1130 and watch Perry Mason on MeTV.

I love those old shows. We watch Columbo on Sunday nights. Yeah, Sunday nights. MeTV is in Pound Ridge where we have a country house. And we watch Columbo. You find your episode? We did once find my episode. You also did McCloud, McMillan and Wife,

Tenafly, Banachek, Tenafly with James McKeachin from Play Misty for Me. The best. Yeah, we brought these shows up on here. Yes, the black TV detective. I was working off Broadway for $45 a week. I didn't know her then. Right.

I didn't. I didn't. You worked arguably as much as any actress, any television actress. Yeah. I was very lucky. It's not luck. It actress. Yeah. I was very lucky. It's not luck. It's never luck. You are lucky.

One of those shows, the Robert Stack one, the name of the game. What was it called? Oh, my God. Robert Stack. The Untouchables? No, no.

It was in the mystery. Yeah. It was like in the late 60s. There was the one with Rock Hudson. Robert Stack. Was there one with Robert Stack? And the one with Tony. Tony Curtis.

Tony Franciosa had one. Robert Stack was the head of a publishing company. I don't even remember that show. Yeah. Tony Curtis's was called McCoy. It was called Name of the Game. Oh, the Name of the Game. Well, that was Gene Barry and Tony Franciosa.

Right, and Robert Stack. Oh. Wasn't it? I don't think so. Was Robert Stack on the name of the game? DeCaro? We have a call here. No?

Maybe he was. Anyway, Robert Stack was in one of those mystery movies or something. But my point was, so after the OJ thing, I realized in that show, my character, of course, the bad girl, has to go into the, they had recreated a real San Quentin, the real San Quentin gas chamber. And they had two extras. One was a white guard and one was a black guard. That leads me into the gas chamber

and it was O.J. He was making extra money when he was going to USC. And I did the Bobby Vinton show. Remember? Da-da-da-da-da-da. Oh, yes.

Take it away. You can sing. I don't know the words, but I remember it. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da. We had to encourage him. We shouldn't have.

Oh, my God. I'm so sorry. So I was a guest. You know, I sang. I was a guest, and, my God. I'm so sorry. So, I was a guest. You know, I sang. I was a guest, and O.J. was a guest because he was such a big star at the time. I forget when this was, like, early 70s or something. You danced with him. And at the end, we all do the polka.

Da, da, da. And he was my partner. I have it on tape. You did a polka? I danced with a murderer. You held the hand that held the knife. A polka with O.JJ and I have it on tape. Wowee.

And how did we find it? Tell them how we found it. We were looking for Shecky Green. Yeah. She was on one of those talk shows. We had Shecky here. My gutter show. We had Shecky here.

Isn't he the funniest? He and Gilbert had a little run in. Oh, no. Yes. Why? What happened? I was at some Friars thing. Yeah.

And out of nowhere, I do my set, and then someone else, he was supposed to follow me. Right. And then I found out that, well, Joy Behar, who wasn't supposed to be on, and she goes, boy, isn't that Shecky an asshole? supposed to be on? And she goes, boy, isn't that Shecky an asshole? And Shecky was, like, screaming about my set, saying, I was in the Navy. I never heard words like that.

And he tried to throw a punch at, like, Stewie Stone or Freddie Roman. And, yeah. Yeah, it was... He had a little meltdown. But then we had him on the show. And it was not much better. No, he gave us about 20 minutes and hung up on us.

And 20 minutes that you couldn't use one, really. Oh, wow. We used it. Funny guy. But how we found out about the OJT was we were looking for this interview that I had done on the Mike Douglas show. For the skit with Shecky. We were looking for that skit, which I had done on the Mike Douglas show for the skit with Shecky. We were looking for that skit, which I had never seen on TV.

And all of a sudden, Ron said, and this was right during the trial, Ron said, wait a minute. Oh, my God. Wait a minute. It's you and OJ dancing the polka. That's wild. I had forgotten about it.

That is wild. Oh, my God. You can go to the Museum of Television Radio and find some of those. Yes, you can. Yeah, it's a great resource. You know, I had never seen Play Misty for me. I'd seen pieces of it on television, and we were dating.

She said, well, why don't I put it on the VCR, and I'll go and make dinner in the kitchen. So I'm watching this thing, and she's killing about 1,100 people. And in the kitchen, I hear, she's chopping about 1,100 people. And in the kitchen I hear, she's chopping with a knife. I said, if you're going to leave, you will leave now. I love that. Oh, my God.

That is great. Okay. She only killed two people, to be fair. Oh, okay. John Larch and... The housekeeper. Clarice. Was that really you floating in the water at the end? Yeah.

Did you do your own stunt? Yeah. Wow. I didn't fall from the cliff? Did you do your own stunt? Yeah. Wow. I didn't fall from the cliff. Sorry to give away the payoff. You haven't seen it by now. It's 1926 it was made, I think. That, I have to just say that, as Ron said,

Norma Rae was such an experience. That was a wonderful experience. Clint Eastwood, the best. And Don Siegel was the bartender. The great Don Siegel. the bartender. Yeah. The great Don Siegel. Yeah. He had him around just in the show.

Yeah. That was the first day of shooting was that scene in the bar with Don. As I said, you're so good in the film. Oh, thank you. Where you run the gamut. Great role. You know, we have this saying, Ronnie and I, if it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage. Just like with Angels, how brilliantly it was written.

It's sort of like with Archer. I mean, how he comes up with these things. Adam Reid. He's so brilliant. Yeah, he's very brilliant. You guys have done everything. This has been quite a ride. What do you think? We have totally enjoyed it.

It's 112 degrees in this room. Remember the Breakfast Club when you were a kid? Good morning, Breakfast Clubbers. It's nice to see you. Another cheery greeting. So may we bring you first call to breakfast. Phil Coe's call to breakfast. Ba-da-bum.

Now we're out. We sing that to my best friend, Louisa Rowell. We sing that to her. We sing that to her every morning. We call her and we wake her with that song. That's hilarious. Do you remember? Or are you too young for the Breakfast Club?

Don McNeil and the Breakfast Club. Wow. Oh, my God. I was going to try to get Ron to go for whatever it is I'm against it, for Morse Brothers, since he loves the Marx Brothers so much. Oy.

Oh, my God. Do you remember Don McNeil and the Breakfast Club? No. I can't say I do either. Out of Chicago. He's a young guy. He's a young guy. We were like really young when we heard that on the radio.

That's fantastic. We just stayed home from school. As much as I hate for people other than myself to sing on the podcast, that was great. That was incredible. We'll have to teach it to you soon. Bored the rest of America. We can have a trio. That was great.

I have one last question to throw in before we go, and this is from Joe Dator, D-A-T-O-R. Will Ron Liebman ask you to take his name off this episode? That's funny. Yeah, snotting. Never. Yeah, snotting. Only that story I told him not to tell. I's snotting. He's snotting. Only that story I told him not to tell. I'll cut it out.

We edit to the guest's specifications. And now, Robert Redford. Oh, I love working with him. Yeah. He's a sweet guy. Yeah. I'm a very dedicated fellow for a lot of causes. Absolutely.

He does a lot of good stuff. Besides Sundance. My God, how much work has he given people. And Burt Lancaster? I never worked with Burt Lancaster. You did Victory at Entebbe, but you probably didn't have any scenes.

I didn't have any scenes. Oh, okay. What did I have scenes with Elizabeth Taylor? There was an article in Today's Times about Victory at Entwerp. And that's where Netanyahu's brother was killed. Right. He's the first Israeli.

He's the only Israeli soldier killed. And that has special meaning, obviously, for Netanyahu. I remember there were two movies out. There was that one, Raid on Ontario. There was Raid and Victory. Yeah, with Charles Bronson. Right. Yeah, that was the other one.

Why do I remember Yafit Koto being in that? Yes, yes. He played, what's his name? The African. Idi Amin. You know who played Idi Amin and died on the set? Godfrey Cambridge. No kidding.

Oh, that's, I've heard that. We're fans of Godfrey Cambridge. Who was also in Bye Bye Bray for me. Yeah. Yeah. He was a New York actor. Yeah, funny guy. Yes, and a nice man.

Yeah, that was really... Well, Gil... That's not a good way to end the show, though. Just a couple of weeks ago, I was walking down the street, and one guy looked at me, and he goes,

oh, I know you. You're Godfrey Cambridge. Oh, dear. So long for a while. That's all the song. No, wait, wait, wait. When he said you're Godfrey Cambridge,

it made me think of Joan Crawford and Catherine Hepburn. Yeah. They lived in the same neighborhood. And, you know, people would always come by and say to Catherine Hepburn, Oh, Miss Crawford, aren't you Joffrey? And she signed Joan Crawford. That's not the point. Anyway.

Thirty-three years of her joy. You two are a pair. Anyway, poor Joan Crawford died. And somebody, Catherine Tepper was taking a walk and somebody said, oh, Miss Crawford. She said, I'm not Miss Crawford anymore. Oh, that's nice. You ruined it. I was on a run with it.

You ruined it. You two have to do it to like a, I don't know what it is, the gin game? Something where you can get this repartee going. On stage, nothing. This is like sitting with Stiller and Mirror. Oh, that's a compliment. I love them. Oh, yes.

So quick plugs, Jessica. Archer. Archer. On FX. Archer on FX, yeah. We're going to season eight. Going to Comic-Con next week. It's wonderful and funny.

I love those people. And I worked with John Benjamin once. Isn't he a riot? Yes, he's hilarious. Oh, my God. Very good. Great talent.

And Aisha, these are stand-up comic people that are, I mean, I just sit there. And Ron is on the show as Ron Cadillac. He has been.

And I teach at the new school. Yeah, what do you teach? Yes. Acting, obviously. What do I teach? Ballet. Snowboarding. Yeah, what do you teach? Acting, obviously. What do I teach? Ballet! Snowboarding! Well, it could have been acting for the stage.

It could have been acting for the screen. Algebra 2. I teach Algebra 2. I flunked Algebra 1 twice. He's a great teacher, I can tell you. Kids worship him. I love teaching. And I will say this.

Is this the end of the show? I want to end on a positive note here. End with a song. I have learned more about acting from Ron Liebman than I did from any acting teacher or any experience that I've ever had on stage. That I will tell you. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay, now I'm going to wrap up the show, and I want you to sing that song you started singing.

Which one? You know, Goodbye. The Breakfast Club again? No, no, no. The other one. Oh, it was from television. So long. For a while.

That's all the songs for a while. Yes, hit parade. So long from your hit parade. And the songs that you pick to be played. So long. Lucky Strike means fine tobacco. Well, this is... Goodbye, Godfrey.

Goodbye, everybody. Nice to see you in the television show. Very good. He's very funny. This has been Gilbert Godfrey's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. Once again, at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Ferdarosa. Thank you, Frank Ferdarosa.

And we have been talking to the double great, Ron Liebman and Jessica Walter. I don't think I've ever been this entertained by guests on this show. Oh, I bet you have. In 115 episodes, you guys are. You mean we don't get I've ever been this entertained by guests on this show. Oh, I bet you have. In 115 episodes, you guys are. You mean we don't get any money for this? Yeah. Oh, wait a minute. Hold it.

You're two guests who make me feel like singing. Oh. That's sweet. It's the saddest thing I've ever heard. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you. We had such a good time.

It was the most fun I've ever had on one of these things. I'd have to thank Frank because I know he said, he said, oh, I'm up to talk to them. Would you do the show? It's you guys. No, it's you guys. If you didn't have the personas that allowed this, we would just clam up.

Well, yes, it's true. I've clammed up before. I'm just mad for you. And I'll always be. But naturally, if a custom-tailored vet asks me out for something wet, when the vet begins to pet, I cry hooray. But I'm always true to you, darling, in my fashion

Yes, I'm always true to you, darling, in my way I've been asked to have a meal By a big Thai comb and steel If the meal includes a deal, accept I may But I'm always true to you, darling, in my fashion If the meal includes a deal, accept I may. But I'm always true to you, darling, in my fashion. Yes, I'm always true to you, darling, in my way. There's a madman known as Mac who is planning to attack.

If his mad attack means a Cadillac, okay But I'm always true to you, darling In my fashion Yes, I'm always true to you, darling In my way There's an oil man known as Tex Who is keen to give me checks. But his checks, I feel mean that Tex is here to stay. But I'm always true to you, darling, in my fashion.

Yes, I'm always true to you, darling, in my way. Mr. Harris Pluto Pratt wants to give my cheek a pat if a Harris pat means a Paris hat measure sweet to Jean Fidel darling in my fashion

measure sweet to Jean Fidel Darling in my way