Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Steven Van Zandt

Episode Date: March 9, 2020

Gilbert and Frank welcome actor, musician and Rock & Roll Hall of Famer Steven Van Zandt for a fun, freewheeling conversation about beloved kiddie show hosts, the glory days of Top 40 radio, the mystique of gangster movies, the Beatles' impact on popular culture and the Rat Pack's "connection" to the E Street Band. Also, Darlene Love mounts a comeback, Little Richard officiates a wedding, Ol' Blue Eyes covers Simon & Garfunkel and Steven remembers his friend James Gandolfini. PLUS: The Singing Nun! "Angels with Dirty Faces"! The genius of William Castle! "Dr. Goldfoot and the Bikini Machine"! And Gilbert and Steven pay tribute to "The Nutty Professor"! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Baseball is finally back. Get in on Major League action and swing for the fences with BetMGM, the king of sportsbooks. Log in or sign up to play along as BetMGM brings the real-time action. Embrace a season's worth of swings with BetMGM, your one-stop shop for all things baseball. BetMGM.com for Ts and Cs. 19 plus to wager.

Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. At Best Western, we can't promise you the perfect weekend hiking trip. Or the perfect sunset. We cannot promise you'll make a new friend on the trail. It's certainly possible. We just can't guarantee it. And you probably shouldn't force it.

But we can promise you this. With over 4,200 hotels worldwide, you can find a warm welcome and a comfortable room right on the way to where you're going. Life's a trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre.

Out of the 300-plus shows that Frank and I have done, this week's guest may have the longest and most varied list of accomplishments. We'll do our best to sum them up. He's a musician, songwriter, recording artist, record producer, music supervisor, music historian, actor, director, TV producer, film composer, disc jockey, radio host, and human rights activist. He's a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and one of the world's leading authorities on both contemporary and traditional rock and roll. As an actor, you've seen him in the Netflix show, Lilyhammer, a show he also co-wrote and executive produced. In the new Martin Scorsese film, The Irishman, and of course, as mobster and consigliere Silvio Dante in the long-running HBO series, The Sopranos. As a founding member of Bruce Springsteen's East Street Band and his own band, Little Stephen and the Disciples

of Soul. He's performed all over the world to sold-out crowds, and his original songs have been recorded by Jackson Browne, Pearl Jam, Darlene Love, and Nancy Sinatra, to name a few. He's also co-produced the unforgettable multi-platinum Springsteen albums, The River and Born in the USA. But there's more. He's also created the terrific little stevens underground garage yay heard right here on sirius xm and founded the rock and roll forever foundation to keep students engaged and in school his elaborate new box set is called Rock and Roll Rebel The Early Work,

and I'm exhausted just reading about him. We're thrilled to welcome to the show our rock and roll icon, a renaissance artist, and to put it mildly, a man who says his life was forever changed by an event that took place 56 years and one day ago the legendary steven van zandt can we take a break now? As Gilbert says, it also doubles as an obituary. I always feel that you're then found dead in this New York apartment. You forgot my other station on Sirius, Outlaw Country.

Outlaw Country. Channel 60. You know, you forgot some things. I'll read our whole over again. country channel 60 you know you forgot some things i'll read our whole over again get one of those guests even the intro could go on and on and on i mean that's enough there's a lot of stuff yeah well you know try to stay busy you know you don't like to take vacations we were talking before i don't get it i don't get that whole concept you know you lay on the beach for an hour and then what i i don't like going out of town for a day to me a vacation is sitting on the beach for an hour and then what? I don't like going out of town. To me, a vacation is sitting on the couch with the TV remote.

That's a vacation. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm with you. You're both workaholics. Neither one of you want to stop working. Well, I'd love to sit down. I want to go home now.

Well, I'd love to sit down. I want to go home now. Why don't you tell Steven about what you wish would happen every night you perform? This is like right before I'm about to go on stage, I'll be backstage with the fantasy that the manager of the club will say, we had a fire or a flood and uh no show tonight here's your check and just recently it happened there was some kind of screw up i was supposed to do two shows and something happened with the first show some screw up with the tickets and he said so you could either go on and do a first show or we could cancel it and i i screamed i cancel it that's a work ethic isn't it i i had an erection knowing i wasn't doing two shows that night yeah you know i understand i do

you know sometimes you like you book a lot of things you know, I understand. I do. You know, sometimes, like, you book a lot of things, you know, and then they cancel, you know, like you're saying, you know, and it's such a thrill when, you know, you got, like, one thing after the other, one day after the other, you know. And sometimes I just book things just to cancel them, you know, just to kind of have that same feeling. To get a high from the cancel.

Yeah, because, you know, I get a free day off. It's a free day, you know. One time I was booked in hawaii this shows how neurotic i am i was booked in hawaii and then there was some screw up with their uh i think the club got sold to someone that whatever some some screw up and they said your, your Hawaii gig is canceled. And I was thrilled. I was thrilled that I wasn't going to Hawaii. That's a hell of a ride.

It is. I was reading your Twitter feed and just we referenced it in the intro, 56 years ago and one day. And you were complaining that the Oscars, not a single mention. Nobody mentioned it.

Not even Hanks. Not even Hanks. Not even Hanks, which you would expect. Right, right. What was he doing? Selling a new museum or something? Oh, the Hollywood Museum. Come on, he had room to mention it. Yeah, 56 years.

By the way, 56 years tonight, the whole world changed. The Beatles did Ed Sullivan. Your Big Bang, as you like to call it. It was a Big Bang of more than me. did ed sullivan your big bang as you like to call it the big bang of more than me i i remember watching that with my with uh my father and mother and sisters yeah i don't i'm not that old but but somebody told me about it people tell me about these things i pretend i was there you know pretend I was there. In fact, I was sitting first row at a Rudy Valley concert.

You know, I forgot too. I was watching Not Fade Away and I forgot that when the Stones were on the Hollywood Palace that Dean Martin was rather dismissive of them. That was a big moment for me. He rolled his eyes. That was the second half of my...

Of the Big Bang. Yes, it really was. Because, you know, the Beatles, by the time we saw the Beatles, that was halfway through their career. Yeah. And they were too good. I mean, they blew your mind and they said, here's a whole new world.

And boy, did I need a whole new world at that point. I couldn't fit in anywhere. I couldn't think of what I was going to do. But they were so good that you couldn't picture doing it. You know what I mean? The harmony was perfect and the clothes and everything was amazing. But just four months later, thank God, the Rolling Stones

came. And they made it look easier than it was. They wore different things. They had no harmony. It was kind of like the first punk band. And so the Beatles showed us the world, and the Rolling Stones invited us in. You know, that's how I put it.

I like the way you described the Beatles on Sullivan. You said it couldn't have been a bigger impact if a spaceship had landed. Right. In fact, it was more of an impact because we'd seen spaceships land on TV. You've never seen this. Right? You saw that, you know, day of the Earth stood still. But this was

nothing like you'd ever seen before because there was no bands. I know it's hard to imagine, but there was no bands. You had singing individuals, you had singing groups, but there was not a lot of bands. And when the Beatles came over, it was so weird that they were looked upon

as so, like these weird hippies. They're all wearing suits and ties. I know, I know. And as nice as could be. Yeah. But then our parents got a very good perspective on it when the Rolling Stones came, you see. All of a sudden, those ugly, nasty Beatles were so bad. Oh, yes.

Well, the Stones didn't look like show business. The Beatles were, they were all wearing the same outfit, and they looked like show business. But that was the thing that changed my life, and I know it sounds silly, but the fact that Mick Jagger did not smile was the first time I'd ever seen anybody in show business not smile. And that, to me, meant this is not show business anymore.

This is a lifestyle. It's a whole different thing. And that was what really attracted me. You know, that was the thing I was like, I want to do that. You know what I mean? I want to be part of that lifestyle. I don't care about show business, you know, I like it now, you know what I mean? But back then, you know, I wasn't a show biz person, you know but that lifestyle of just uh being in a band and not really changing once you go off stage and on stage it's kind of the same thing you know that was a new new idea and the rolling stones uh had that impact on me that was like man you know that's different and uh we're in you know the challenge for you though was how do i get there how do i get from

here i'm still working on it you have any specific memories of watching that as a kid of watching the beatles yeah i i remember watching that because it just seemed like you know back then i always think about this back then you could go up to anybody on the street and say hey how about that so-and-so show last night and everybody in the world saw that show like laughing yeah yeah yeah you go hey remember hey wasn't that funny when bob hope uh got splashed with the three channels yeah right and everybody knew it and if you appeared on if they saw the back of your head for a second on tv everybody wanted your autograph the next day yeah but yeah no i remember watching the beatles i think my father said if it was up to me, they'd starve. There you go.

What was Gandolfini's character saying in Not Fade Away when he's watching the stones? He says something similar. Yeah. If it was up to me or something. But that night, I don't remember what he said. But for me, I saw my past meeting my future, you know, because I'm, you know, Italian-American, so Dean Martin was a hero, you know. Yeah, sure.

And still is, you know. I mean, I never stopped liking him. And he was making fun of them, you know, terribly. I mean, really, really obnoxiously, you know. Yeah, I'd forgotten it. And to this day, don't mention it to Keith Richards, I'm telling you right now. He still wrote about it in his book. Don't mention it. Yeah., I'm telling you right now. He still wrote about it in his book. Don't mention it. Yeah.

He still wants to, you know. He wants to kill Dean Martin. You know, he wish he was alive, he could kill him again. But, I mean, for me, it made sense. Of course he's making fun of them. You're supposed to make fun of them. You know what I mean? It was like you didn't want to appeal to your parents back then. So the fact that that generation was completely appalled

by these new rock and roll guys was more attractive to us. You know what was weird about that time period too? You'd listen to the radio and there would be Frank Sinatra, then the Stones, the Beatles, and... The singing nun. Yeah, the singing nuns. And the Green Berets. Or novelty songs.

You can hear Tiptoe through the Tulips. Yes. Or Napoleon. What was it? They're coming to take me away. Oh, yeah. They'd be like Sammy Davis Jr. and Bob Dylan. And the same thing on the old Hullabaloo shows.

If you go back and look at them, we were very fortunate to have like, I don't know how many, like eight rock and roll TV shows on every week, you know? Yeah. One of which was called Hullabaloo only for a couple of years. But they were kind of mixing the generations on that show.

So you'd have a rock and roll show, but the host would be Jerry Lewis. Yes. Or singing with his son, Gary Lewis. Or Sammy Davis Jr. They'd be the host, which is crazy when you go back and look at that stuff. I love it. Before you, it's what you call when radio became segregated, when everybody, what he's talking about, the era that we could hear everything. It really was a common ground.

Top 40, as it was called. You know, the hits, you know. But it was only AM radio, and we had two stations in this area, and they were both identical, you know, WMCA and WABC. Yeah, we grew up with the Harry Harrison and Ron Lundy and all those guys. All those guys over there and Cousin Brucey over there, you know, who's still here, unbelievably. Yes, he is. I think we're in his studio.

Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, that was, but they were great. You know, before FM radio, it was still great radio, you know. Wasn't the case in England. Those poor guys had to, like, wait a long time before they got decent radio. But we were lucky right away. And then there was that classic duet with Bing Crosby and David Bowie.

Oh, yeah. It was later. Yeah. Yeah. That was wonderful. That was great. The Drummer Boy. Little Drummer Boy.

Yeah. Little Drummer Boy. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That was great. You could hear every. Yeah, Little Drummer Boy. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was great. You could hear every kind of music on those pop stations because ABC basically played whatever was on the charts.

Yeah. So you could have bubble gum. And rock and roll was staging a slow coup over the charts and slowly, you know, they would pretty much take over by, well, with the British invasion, with the Beatles and all that, really started to really take it over. But up until then, rock and roll was an underground cult that was kind of sneaking in with Elvis Presley or Bill Haley and the Comets or, you know, Little Richard and those guys, you know. And then there was that also it was creepy when people like Frank Sinatra started trying to keep up with the kids.

And he did like Mrs. Robinson. I love that. Yeah. He likes it. Yeah. We play it. It's on my format. It's on my playlist.

Jilly loves you more than you will know. Exactly. Yeah. What's better than that? That's a Jilly Rizzo reference. You cuckoo bird, Mrs. Robinson. We've played it on this show, too, but not affectionately. Oh, no, I love it.

The way Steven plays it. Yeah, to me, it's a jaw-dropper. A little shocking at first, but for me, I love that stuff. And Sammy with his Nehru jackets and peace signs. Yeah. And the boots, the Beatle boots. Well, yeah. And he did the famous Bob Fosse movie, which is what? Sweet Charity or one of those. You know, where he was doing all the cool swinging 60s dances.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, Sammy was hip. Why has there never been a great movie about Sammy Davis Jr.? There should be. Can somebody tell me this? He's got to be the most talented, accomplished guy in the world. I mean, really.

He's one of the most talented guys in the history of show business. I don't remember ever seeing a great movie about him. Did you ever meet any of the Rat Pack in your travels? No. Never rubbed elbows with any of those guys? No, no. They wouldn't have liked me. Why is that?

I doubt that's true, Steve. Unless they visited the set of The Sopranos or Lillehammer. Then they would have liked me a little bit. But no, they wouldn't have liked me. Plus, around that time of the Rat Pack and Martin and Lewis and all that, I always think there's somebody alive who knows some really ugly secrets about all of them well pretty much printed in a lot of books by now read the great the great uh toshis book uh dino oh that's a great book one of the great biographies

of all time we just lost him the writer yes it's a shame yeah. One of the great biographies of all time. We just lost him, the writer. Yes, it's a shame. Yeah. Fantastic. Speaking of those DJs that went away, those great DJs that we grew up with, that was part of your idea behind Underground Garage, wasn't it? To bring personalities back to that. Yeah.

To bring that world back. We'd be the only generation that had any fun, you know? It's terrible. I feel really bad about what we're leaving this these you know future generations i mean yeah because we grew up in what you call that renaissance period we had access to all of it it was a renaissance okay when the greatest art being made is also the most commercial it's a renaissance period you know and and and we took it for granted totally but personality was was was expected and encouraged, you know, in those days.

And suddenly when the consultants came into radio, late 70s and the 80s, slowly all the personality was pushed into sports radio and talk radio. And the audience went with it. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. How did that happen? Well, it's corporate. It becomes corporate.

Somebody made the decision that you don't need personalities to play records? Yeah, they were fucking idiots. Yeah. Because, you know. Pretty much. Well, it's just like

we've had a few kiddie show, old kiddie show hosts on the podcast. Do you remember Wondorama with Sonny Fox? I watched that show. We had Sonny Fox on the show. And we had Chuck McCann.

Chuck McCann. Chuck McCann, too, yeah. And it was like back then, you know, in between the cartoons, you had this friend on TV. He was your adult friend. And he was nice. Well, Officer Joe Bolton. Yes. And Captain Jack McCarthy and all those guys. Anybody that grew up

In the tri-state area Andy Devine Sure Oh, yes Oh, and Sandy Becker Yeah Yeah All gone

Except for Sandy Yes But a similar thing Happened on the radio You know Where you had a relationship With the DJ Sure

Or with the radio station You know Harry Harrison We just lost Yeah Last week You know And you You didn't You know Everybody's lost yeah last week you know and and you and

you you didn't you know everybody's lonely a little bit you know what i mean and you're right they became your friends i mean they really did and and what was funny about shows like ed sullivan is it's like you know you're a kid you want to see like the rock band and maybe a comedian but and you were forced to watch an opera singer or a ballet dancer and then you were so shea don't oh yes play the night the beatles yes tessie o'shea oh jugglers yeah the jugglers sure you were forced to watch stuff you didn't want to watch. And then you go, oh, okay, I got a taste of that. That wasn't so bad. Yeah, yeah. And so you were forced to broaden your horizons.

And actually, to a smaller extent, in a way, that's what Bill Graham did when he started Fillmore East and Fillmore West. You know, it was the first time a real production came to rock and roll. And he would have, you know, The Who and Miles Davis, you know, and Buddy Guy, you know. I mean, you know, and do exactly what you're saying where you came to see The Who, but you're getting turned on to a Miles Davis or, you know, or some blues, you know, Albert King or, you know. And that was a radical move that we really owe Bill Graham a lot for that kind of foresight and, you know, telling people, not only giving them what they want, but also a little bit of what they need, you know.

I think so. It's better for the culture. Yeah. I mean, those days are over now. And Gilbert's point about the radio, too mean those days are over now and Gilbert's point about the radio too you did have to listen to Sergeant Barry Sadler

and the Candyman and Yummy Yummy Yummy and every and every kind of music especially because everything was only two minutes

and everything was only two minutes you know you didn't need to go away just wait for a minute and a half and the next one's coming

and it's like what happened with radio and TV is it's like now, okay, you want to hear country, you go to this station. You want to hear rock, you go to this station. And everything's separate. Yeah, except on my stations, yes. I intentionally broadened that out in both in my rock and roll format

and my country format to really broaden out the roots of where things come from and, you know, we have the widest formats that ever were created,

you know, for that very reason, you know. Let's turn people on to things. Why not? What broke my heart to hear you say that you would be

the only guy playing the Stones if the Stones showed up today. Well, that's what happens. If Paul McCartney puts out a new record, I'm the only one playing the Stones if the Stones showed up today. Well, that's what happens. If Paul McCartney puts out a new record, I'm the only one playing it.

Right, right. Don't ask me why. That's tragic. Before they started the Beatles channel, I was the only one playing the Beatles. That doesn't make any sense. Who thought we'd live that long to see the Beatles go away? I mean, it's a strange world we're living in right now.

Thank God Sirius came along when it did. But I started my show a couple of years before that, and the format was crazy for people. I said, well, I'm going to play all 60 years of rock and roll and its roots. People said, you can't do that. I said, yeah, I'm going to play blues, I'm going to play soul, I'm going to play girl groups, I'm going to play surf,

you know, I'm going to do it all. Right. You know, and British Invasion and The Best Punk, you know, Clash and Ramones, and they were like, you can't do that. And I was like, know, and British Invasion and The Best Punk, you know, Clash and Ramones. And they were like, you can't do that. And I was like, yes, you can if it's the right songs, you know. On TV, I remember, I don't know if it was probably the Grammys, Paul McCartney came out and was playing.

And it panned to the audience. And these two girls were looking at their cell phones. And I thought, wow, this is how times have changed. They thought Kanye West discovered him. Right. I work with people who have no idea who Paul McCartney is. It's stunning. That's one of the greatest part of the Oscars last night. One of the greatest moments was Billie Eilish doing Yesterday.

And I think she's going to turn millions of young kids onto the Beatles. Oh, I think you're right. Because of that. I think you're right. I really, I mean it. You know, she's got millions of followers and, you know, and I like her a lot. But, you know, I wasn't expecting her to do Yesterday, you know. I like her a lot, but I wasn't expecting her to do yesterday.

We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. Baseball is finally back. Get in on Major League action and swing for the fences with BetMGM, the king of sportsbooks. Log in or sign up to play along as BetMGM brings the real-time action. Embrace a season's worth of swings with BetMGM, your one-stop shop for all things baseball. BetMGM.com for Ts and Cs. 19 plus to wager.

Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call ConX Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. This episode is brought to you by RBC Student Banking. Students, get $100 when you open an RBC Advantage banking account, which includes no monthly fee, unlimited debit transactions in Canada,

Avion points on debit purchases, and so, so much more. Unlock more perks for less with RBC Vantage. Conditions apply. Offer ends June 30th, 2024. New eligible clients only. Complete criteria by August 30th, 2024. New eligible clients only. Complete criteria by August 30th, 2024. Visit rbc.com slash student 100. So one of the surprises of life, you're how old when you're sitting there watching this in 64 on The Sullivan Show?

Well, you know, my grandfather was there, but I, you know. In the middle of New Jersey. Yeah. The thought that one day you're going to be on stage with Paul McCartney is, God, inconceivable. No, it was really literally, I mean, I don't know, top three highlights of my life. I mean, him coming on stage with Bruce and the Street Band was one thing, which was wonderful. Then he invited me and Bruce to join him at the Garden, which was amazing. But then he came on my stage with the Disciple of Soul,

you know, as a surprise. And wow. Making up for the curfew. The show that got shut down. Yeah. Yeah, for those of you. That's a great story. The first time Paul came on stage with Bruce Springsteen

and the E Street Band were playing in Hyde Park. And there was a curfew at like, whatever, 10 o'clock. And I swear, it was like 10.01. 10.01, Paul McCartney, us, David, Bruce Springsteen,

and they pulled the plug. Did you know that, Gilbert? Did you hear that one? They pulled the light. They turned the lights off. They turned the power off. Oh, jeez. They were past.

In Hyde Park, right? Hyde Park. Yeah, Hyde Park. Yeah. So he was making up he was he was writing a wrong but anyway when he came on stage

with me man that was you know I just remember being in my room you know whatever

12 years old listening to that first album their first album was the first album anybody bought in my generation you know it was actually their second album was the first album anybody bought in my generation you know

it was actually their second album but we didn't know that but i remember you know and he's slowing that thing down trying to learn how to play guitar to it you know and now he's on stage and i remember they had the beatles uh cards you know with the stick of gum in it lots of merchandise yeah for the wigs they used to sell them in colony music the late lamented colony music near the brill building they used to have a case in the back where you'd buy them you could buy the old beetle wigs and the old plastic ukulele and all that stuff i always wondered about this question anybody who's ever played with paul mccartney do you sit down with him at any point and tell him specifically what it meant

to you, what he meant to you, or does he just assume it at this point? You don't want to dwell on stuff like that, you know? When you're with people who are your heroes, you got to forget all of that, you know? And you got to just, you know, they don't want to be reminded of that, really, you know what I mean? You want to just talk to them like a normal person, you know? And you're sort of iffy about meeting your heroes anyway. I've always tried to avoid my heroes, my whole life really you know what i mean you want to just talk to him like a normal person you know and you're you're sort of effy about meeting your heroes anyway i i've always tried to avoid my heroes my whole life you know and i just sun city and i got punished 50 of my heroes

i had to produce right for sun city on the sun city record you know but i've always been a little bit gun shy because i had a bad incident when i was a kid. The Rolling Stones came to Asbury Park and Freddie King opened for them. You know, it's a blues guy. And the kids I was with wanted to go and look and get their autograph. There was only one hotel in Asbury Park until recently, actually.

And I was never a big autograph guy. I didn't really get it. But I said, all right, we're going. I went with my friends, and we're going up and down the hallways, you know, and there's Freddie King. The door's open, and there's Freddie King.

And they were like, pushing me, go ask him, ask him, ask him, you know. I'm like, I don't want to ask him. Ask him. Alright, alright. I said, Mr. King, I'm sorry. Can we get your autograph? And he's like, well, come here.

And I step in the room a little bit. He picks up the pillow on his bed, and there's a big gun, like a.45. I swear to God. Oh, my God. Yeah. I'm like, I'm 12. Oh, my God. And he points to the gun, you know. And to this day, I don't play any Freddie King licks.

Ooh. I swear to God, I don't play his record. That is emotionally scarring. So ever since then, I'm like very reluctant to meet my hero. I was reminded of the Danny K. Georgeorge carlin story but but stevens is much scarier yeah yeah at least george carlin's life wasn't in danger george carlin said when he met danny k as a kid who was his hero he brushed him off and he never forgot it and he learned a lesson that he was never going to treat a fan oh that way well that's for sure with disrespect

so have have you ever shot one of your fans? No, but let's not go down that route. Are you intimidated by meeting a comedy hero of yours today? Yeah, I am. I was reluctant to do it.

Let's face it. It's Jerry Lewis, Alan King, Jackie Vernon, and Gilbert Gottfried. Absolutely. Who else matters? You're a Jerry fan too.

I saw The Nutty Professor on your list of favorite comedies. I love that movie. I love it. Yeah. It is. No bigger Jerry Lewis fan than that. Genius. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, it is. Genius, genius.

No bigger Jerry Lewis fan than that. Genius. Oh, yeah. I just love that movie. Now, can you sing for us, We've Got a World That Swings? Well, as Buddy Love? Yes.

Yeah. He's putting you on the spot. Buddy Love? Yes. Yeah. He's putting you on the spot. We've got a world that's a swing. Up at dawn and sleepy and yawning.

Still the taste of wine. Then I remember you're mine. And I've got a world that's fine. Watch before me, routines that bore me, punch the clock at eight. Then I remember you're mine and I've got a world that's great universe is up in arms so i flip a little too until i'm holding you you what once before me. Routine. And then I'd like to take you

through this wild, wonderful adventure. Fly like a kite through space. No strings. I don't want to lose that bell and ring. I've got a world that you've got a world that we've got a world that swings. We've got a world that swings. I know the bridge and everything I'm telling you That's impressive

I'm gonna send you a link of him singing MacArthur Park with Jimmy Webb It's gonna ruin your week Yeah Love that How about that? I mean And then the sad ending of,

I'm not usually at a loss for words, but if you bear with me, I think I can explain. I got a... I don't know how to find it, but somewhere on YouTube, I've only done like two commercials. I did a commercial as Jerry in the wind, a nice professor.

You've got to find that. Oh, my God, we have to find that. You'll get a kick out of that, yeah. Yeah. It's for the telecom company in Norway, whatever it was called. They put up, you know, Steve Van Zandt, it'll probably come up. But, yeah. What was your reaction when Scorsese called you up

and said he wanted you to play Jerry Vale? Well, you know what? Records I listened to as a kid. I mean, first of all, he's... Aldila. Out of all of the singers, you know, he is... Yeah. Got the purest voice.

I mean, he's like this close to an opera singer. And I had read the book, you know, before even I knew that marty was doing the movie it was my favorite mob book you know oh really yeah i loved the book uh and i read every mob book you know now you you we mentioned before briefly the day the earth stood still now here's what i always found weird about that movie. It's dated in some ways. You've got a guy living in a boarding house by himself, a strange guy who goes out with a little boy every day

and takes him to the park. It wasn't weird in those days. Yeah. Nobody ever heard of pedophiles. It was not a thing yet. It wasn't a thing. Now you can't watch that movie without, what's he doing with that little boy?

When I was 11, I sold a letter to Marvel Comics, and they published my whole address, which they would never do. Oh, my God. It was 1972. They'd never do that nowadays. You'd never put a kid's address in a... Oh, I saw...

Different times. I saw recently an episode of the Andy Griffith Show where there's a little boy who's Opie's friend and Andy takes out a gun because the little boy wants to hold a gun and learned how to how you fire a gun and he puts a gun in a little boy's hand and andy with his country like oh well you hold on to this part real firm and then you put your finger around the trigger and it's like he's showing a little boy how to fire a gun this is horrible wow we go all over the place here as you can see there's no rhyme or reason to this show well

we would go out after school you know apparently you know you leave go to the park you know nobody's uh watching anybody. Sure. Different times. I remember. It's like it felt like when I was little, I walked out the door and I'd come back. Time to eat. That's it. With all due respect, Gilbert, who would take you?

Well, that was it. Your parents didn't want you around until then. Exactly. Which takes me back to you and watching the Beatles and watching the Stones and deciding that this had to be a way of life somehow. And your stepdad, who you didn't see eye to eye with, was a Goldwater Republican. An ex-Marine. An ex-Marine. Goldwater Republican, which we were the generation gap.

I mean, we defined it, you know? Yeah, yeah. I mean, people can't imagine how weird it was back then, you know? We were just an embarrassment to our parents and a really, really big conflict. And I got thrown out of the house, got thrown out of school. For having, for long hair? Just having long hair. Just having long hair.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, we were degenerates you know and you know as i've said many times they would have preferred me being a criminal you know at least it was steady work there's nothing wrong being a degenerate you know but it was you know and i thought that would be the biggest generation gap in history i really did but now i'm starting to wonder about this one right now. This may be even bigger because it's much more subtle. It is. It's interesting. I mean, we were at war with our parents. Now they

live with their parents until they're 45. So it kind of fools you. It fools you. But this generation gap is quite big. And it's one of the reasons why we created the new curriculum, you know, the new high school.

Not just high school. Yeah, talk about it. We put it in the intro. It's important work. Very briefly, we created this music history curriculum for three reasons real quick. One, to keep the art in the DNA

of the education system because that's the first thing that goes in everybody's budget, you know? The art just goes. But secondly, we need to create a new methodology for these kids who are smarter than us and faster than us and have no patience at all, you know. And parents, I mean, teachers have been tearing their hair out trying to get their kids' attention.

And we figured out how to do it. We do it with music, you know. Thank God they're still into music, even though they don't buy it, tragically. But they still listen to it. And you can't drag them to our old methods. We were told, learn this now and someday you'll use it. You can't do that with these kids. They're going to get the answer in 20 seconds on their device.

So we asked them who their favorite artist is. You know, you can't do that with these kids. They're going to get the answer in 20 seconds on their device, you know. So we asked them who their favorite artist is, and whoever it is, we traced them back and provided a little context, a little history, and they stayed tuned in. You know, they say Beyonce. And we say, well, Beyonce comes from this woman called Aretha Franklin. And Aretha Franklin comes from Detroit. We talk about Detroit, and she comes from the Gospel Church. We talk about the church and involve the Civil Rights Movement, and we talk about that.

And they stay tuned in because it's a comfortable area for them. That's a brilliant idea. Yeah, and it's working. It's working. We've got 30,000 teachers registered already, and we just started. How are these kids? I mean, you get a couple of kids that surprise you, that know a little bit more about music history than...

Well, yeah, some of them know a little bit, but this generation is funny. They don't think about history. I mean, I know it's hard to explain this. When we grew up, you know, again, we had a huge generation gap, but we knew about Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin. We lament that on this show all the time. Jimmy Cagney. I mean, you know, we had a huge generation gap, but we knew about Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin. We lament that on this show all the time.

Jimmy Cagney. I mean, we knew about our parents and our grandparents' general culture. Sure. These kids don't. They don't. They were like born yesterday, and the world was born yesterday. It's a very odd phenomenon, and we have to adjust to that. And we figure the bureaucracy is never going to adjust to it, and we're going to adjust to that you know and we figured the bureaucracy is

never going to adjust to it and we're going to lose a whole generation here so we really worked hard to try and get something that works for this generation and it's working it's brilliant to use pop culture think about how how our attention spans wandered in school yes you use your onslaught stevens analogy yeah if somebody had had come to us that way in school and somehow educated us through movies, through our love of television, through our love of music, we might have paid attention differently. Exactly.

We might have learned something. Yeah. If they would have connected it somehow to Lon Chaney Jr., I would have been fine. Exactly. I would have been an A student. Yeah.

How can people help and get behind it, Stephen? Teachrock.org. It's free, by the way, for teachers worldwide. Everything's licensed. The music's all licensed and the videos. And I guess there's some way to donate. I should know this, shouldn't I? TeachRock.org is the website.

Yeah, it's probably like a way to donate if you want to donate. But basically, it's all private money. It's no government money, no taxpayers' money. It's all privately funded, and it's free for teachers. They just sign up, and they use it. And one thing we've talked about a lot on this show is even people who are supposed to know, people who write about show business, write books and articles and talk, and you go, wow, they're getting everything wrong. They don't know.

That's why you need to do your own podcast. Yes. Just straighten the thing out. We love pop culture history. We like introducing younger people to older actors and older stars. younger people to older actors and older stars and you know and we had Ron Dante in here and we had we had Jimmy Webb and we had Tommy James and we had you know Paul Williams and we have 26 year olds 28 year olds listening to show they don't know who these people are no but we feel a sense of accomplishment

believe me it is because again they just don't have that natural curiosity about it don't ask me why. Because we did. We did. And even though we may not have even liked it. We may not have understood or liked Frank Sinatra until later. We knew about them. But these kids don't. They just have a certain way of just dealing with what's in front of them. It's different.

It's very different. On the podcast, I love when I'll get a message from somebody who says i had no idea who that was but i've been looking them up barbara feldin from get smart oh yes 99 99 we had her on the show and we get mail from people who say i never heard of this show i never heard of this person but now i'm gonna go on wikipedia and i'm gonna look her up and I'm going to find her work. So we feel an accomplishment. Absolutely. For turning on.

Did you ever hear her record? Oh, I spent that. Sure. Oh, how did that go? I'm sure you know it. Charlie Fox produced that record. Oh, my God. Yeah.

The 99 one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't remember. All I remember is the hook you know 99 it's come up it is it is it has come up on this show everybody had records in those days

everybody you know yeah twiggy you know everybody everybody in those days so you you took comfort in this idea of a band that that that you were obviously you're saying you got kicked out of the house you got kicked out of school you needed you got kicked out of school. You needed what? Some sense of home, some place to belong. Well, the band thing was what appealed to me. You know, I wasn't, like I said, I wasn't interested in Elvis Presley or any of those people, you know. It just didn't occur to me, you know,

that being in the spotlight, it's all about me, me, me, you know. You know, nothing wrong with it now. But back then, it didn't appeal to me, but us, you know, the family, the friendship, the communicating community, which is what bands did, that was what appealed to me. You know, it was just a different way of living life. You know, the gang, the posse, you know, the army platoon,

you know, take your pick, the football team. Part of the club. I think it's human nature to some extent, you know, the gang, the posse, you know, the army platoon, you know, take your pick, the football team. Part of the club. I think it's human nature to some extent, you know, to want to belong to something, you know, and especially us, we were just freaks, misfits, and outcasts. Didn't want to go to college, didn't want to go in the military, didn't want to work a straight job. I've heard you say that about you and Bruce, that you guys, there was nothing else you guys could do at a certain point.

Yeah. I mean, people think you're so courageous and you're so noble for staying on the path. I'm like, no, we weren't. We couldn't do anything else. We were losers. But me and him were the only ones, you know, in New Jersey at the time. So that was partly why we became such close friends, because we both believed in this rock and roll thing 100 percent, which was not a given at that time. It was not a business yet.

Sure. And other people went into their father's job or they went, they joined the military. There was only about a dozen bands that got out of the garage you know and actually played in the local area but as soon as they had an option they took it you know as soon as they had uh something some other way of making a living they took it except for us yeah you guys shared an obsession yeah yeah you know and again uh incapable of doing anything that's fit into society. So the Beatles literally saved my life, yeah. That's fascinating. You know, I would have been a real soprano if not probably. Interesting.

Did you meet any of the other Beatles besides Paul? Just Paul and Ringo. You know, Ringo, I never met John or George, unfortunately. Ringo's great, too. You know, he's amazing. They're both vegetarians, and they both look about, you know, 35. Yeah, they're vibrant and youthful. Forget it.

They look maybe 40 at the most. Really, it makes you really seriously consider what you're eating. I read that George was a favorite Beatle when you were a kid. Is that true? Yeah, everybody had their favorite Beatle. That sounds silly now, but I like that. I always liked the guy slightly behind. This is my natural inclination.

I was never getting a spotlight type of guy. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. Nobody goes on vacation for the moments that are just okay. That's why Sunwing vacationers go all in like it's a buffet of fun. Whether you're skimming the treetops like Tarzan's long lost twin or deep end swimming with your flippers and fins, or maybe you're just perfecting the art of doing absolutely nothing. Whatever vacationer you are with Sunwing,

you save more so you can do more book with your local travel agent or when your celebration of life is prepaid in advance, it becomes a gift from you to your family later because no one should have to plan for a loss while they're experiencing one paying in advance, protects your loved ones and gives you the peace of mind you deserve. Let us help you plan every detail with professionalism and compassion. We are your local Dignity Memorial provider. Find us at dignitymemorial.ca. So you started a band, basically, to have this feeling, to have this connection,

to find a family outside of a place to be. Yeah, and just it became a way to express yourself. It became a way to, you know, get laid, you know, make a few dollars. Although we weren't that popular when we started. You know, it wasn't that we figured it was going to be like Hard Day's Night, you know, girls chasing you around. But it wasn't. It wasn't like hard day's night

the girls still wanted to you know sleep with the football players and the you know the sports guys so what were those early bands and did you guys do did you attempt originals did you do covers no mostly covers in those days yeah I didn't write until much later. And I got on the oldies, what they call the oldies circuit, which was a very bizarre circuit in the early 70s. When the Beatles, the entire British invasion came, and by that I mean literally there was 10 or 15 British bands that came all at the same time. And the Americans were not even on the charts for about a year and a half.

And they put all their heroes out of work. They didn't mean to do that, but that's just what happened. And they all ended up on this thing called the oldie circuit. And they were in their late 30s, early 40s, put out the pastor.

Everybody. Everybody in the 50s. We had somebody on the show who tell who has that story neil sadaka he was here and he said he would meet these the new major stars they would be thrilled to see him but the the public it's like who the hell's neil sadaka well and the industry really just completely turned their back on them. Yeah. Which was just a terrible thing because starting with that generation in the 60s, the audience would grow up with them and stay with them to this day.

I mean, who's the biggest activist of the 60s? It was the Stones and Beatles. Who's the biggest act today? Stones and Beatles. You know, it wasn't the case with the 50s guys, with the pioneers who invented it, unfortunately. Whatever record you had on the charts by 1964, that's all you're going to have for the rest of your life, you know. So if you were lucky to have, you know, three or four hits like a Benny King or, you know,

somebody like that, you know, you could kind of make it work. But if you had like one or two hits, you would do those one or two hits the rest of your life. Who were some of these oldies acts that had been basically put out to pasture when you went on the – I met them all. The DeVelles you were touring with? I mean, Little Richard and Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley and Jerry Lee Lewis, the Drifters, the Coasters. And the Beatles and the Stones worshipped these guys. Absolutely.

Yeah. Absolutely. You know, like I said, it was an unintentional consequence. But up until the Beatles, every single record had a saxophone solo. You know, they put 1,000 sax players out of work. Unbelievable. Unintentionally. Yeah.

I mean, after that, only the Dave Clark Five kept the sax. And that's why it was so radical when Bruce put a saxophone in the band, he was making a statement, like, we're going to have a little respect for the past as well as looking ahead to the future. We're going to have one hand in the past, one hand in the future. And that was a big move at that time. That was radical. We always felt that way.

We always felt like we were part of tradition, and proudly so. But I met all my heroes in those days. Little Richard wound up officiating your wedding. Yeah, Little Richard was my priest at my wedding. And didn't you say he basically lied and had never? Yeah, he never done it. He said, I do it all the time. He lied.

Then we picked the shortest sermon, and he just threw it away and improvised. There's a film of it somewhere. I can't find it. Nobody can find it. How cool to have little Richard presiding over your wedding. I figured if you're going to get married You might as well have a rock and roll wedding

Percy Sledge sang When a Man Loves a Woman Oh, Percy Sledge sang too When he walked down the aisle Wow Yeah Wow, wow Yeah, it was nice The Godfather, you know, the band The Godfather

You know, outside at the Sure The Michael That was the band The Godfather band You used those guys? Yeah. How'd you find them?

You make a phone call, you know. But you took it upon yourself to get involved in the careers of some of those people. Well. You felt you owed them something. I really did feel that, number one. But number two, I was like, these people are still fantastic. And by the way, 50s artists and the early 60s artists are very different than everybody that came after.

In those days, you actually had to have talent. I mean, for real. You weren't overdubbing and tuning with devices. You had to sing in tune the first time every time. And the quality of these guys was just amazing, so I loved producing them. And yeah, I brought back, whenever I could do it, I would bring them back and put them on our records,

or Southside Johnny's records, just to show people that they were still still great you know i mean and also a way of saying thank you but but uh more just saying hey hire these guys you know lee dorsey i got him out from under a car he's working on a car uh ronnie specter got out of out of retirement we love ronnie specter dara's a big ronnie specter fan over there i just uh and of course what you did for Darlene. Yeah, Darlene was a little bit later, but, yeah. We made her first album.

It's a few years ago. Inspiring. I always felt like what we do on the podcast is they used to be like Fantasy Island and Love Boat. So these old performers who were put out to pasture by show business would pop up and you go oh they're still good yeah we've had many of them on this show oh yeah trying to prove that point yeah well yeah and they and they tend to have you know they're more iconic they're more had more personality usually you know even back then and i I, you know, for Southside's second album, we reunited the Coasters, the Drifters, and the Five Satins. Wow.

Then we did two records with Gary Ors Bonds, you know, who's still fantastic. And Darling Love, and, you know, brought back Chuck Jackson and Benny King on the Gary Bonds album. You know, just trying to show people how great they still were. It's inspiring, too. It's a shame, because they got shafted, really. They did.

Only that generation, only the guys who invented it, you know, of all people, right? It's a cruel twist. Really, it is. And I spent my whole life trying to, like, you know, make it up to them somehow. You know, I mean, that's why they're in my, they're in regular rotation in my format. You know, you're going to hear of course benny king and chuck jackson

yeah whoever it was inspiring too with darlene that you put the call out to songwriters and and what elvis costello produced two songs in 24 hours he sent me first four songs in it and like and within literally two days yeah that's nice to see to see. I mean, I hate asking anybody for anything, you know. But in that case, you know, I said, you know, this is the greatest singer in the world, in my opinion, and she really is. And I was like, I've got to have the greatest songwriters write something new for her, you know.

And Barry and Cynthia. Yeah, Barry and Cynthia. You know, they wrote a classic, Jimmy Webb, who hadn't written for anybody for cynthia yeah you know they wrote a classic uh jimmy webb who hadn't you know written for anybody for 30 years you know uh he says you know what do you want i said ah nothing special another one was macarthur parks you know and uh you know joan jett bruce springsteen but elvis sent me four songs in like two days he says you know pick from some of these you know it was nice but uh and it's a great record yeah i'm proud of that it's a great record it's called introducing darlene love you know meanwhile her first hit was he's a rebel 1962.

yeah and and i gotta ask you jumping to the sopranosopranos, what was James Gandolfini like? He was just amazing. One of my very best friends, and I miss him every day. You know, he was a character actor, you know? And that's the odd thing about that show. David Chase was just extremely creative in every way, including who he cast. So when you cast a character actor as the lead, it's a different vibe on the set, because he was very, very humble about it.

And he pulled me aside. He pulled me over to a mirror. He said, look in the mirror look at this guy do you believe they cast me as the lead in this show what's the matter with these people you know i mean he was serious about it you know and uh just a wonderful wonderful guy and one of the greatest actors i think ever and he's just getting started it's such a tragedy uh because he was just i think one of the greatest actors I think ever and he's just getting started. It's such a tragedy because he was just, I think, one of the great actors

of all time. You know, really, really. You look at any one of his films. Oh, yeah. Even if the film

is not that great, he's always great. Well, I recommend Not Fade Away which I just watched again last night and his part isn't enormous but he makes so much of it.

I know. He's wonderful in that and, you know, like a true romance. Yeah. the one with julie louis-dreyfus the name of which is escaping me uh is very good i'll think of it yeah get shorty he's great in that yeah you know but uh he just was a wonderful guy wonderful you know really

it's a big big loss and good to use particularly under the circumstances a guy who had never acted before well that i i didn't know how they were gonna how they were gonna react you know because uh you know these people they they work their whole lives you know they go to school they they do off broadway you know and uh working their way up to tv that's why i told david chase in the end i said you know i don't know about this uh i feel like i don't want to. I really feel a little guilty taking an actor's job. These guys worked their whole lives. He said, no, you're not going to take an actor's job. I'm going to write a part in for you.

And so, you know, and that was nice. But then Jimmy, right from day one, and the other guys too, Tony Sirico, Vinnie Past Edie everybody Lorraine they just treated me with the utmost respect you know right away that's great one of the crowd and when you played that character you had a facial expression the way you kept your mouth the way you stood the way your shoulders were was that based on any one person or a bunch of people? There was a bunch. There was a bunch, you know.

I was a fan of the whole genre, the whole milieu, you know. So I went all the way back, you know. Well, you're a fan of those movies. I mean, I know you love Angels with Dirty Faces and you love The Roaring Twenties, which we love. All of that, yeah. I really did. I love Cagney.

I used more Cagney than Lillehammer, actually. But, you know, you just create this thing in your head, you know. You don't want to steal things too obviously. A little bit of this, a little bit of that. And I just, I had to create the guy from the outside in, you know. So I found out where, you know where John Gotti got his clothes made and went to his tailor and did the hair thing. He was a guy who, I wrote a whole biography about the guy. I know, that's fascinating.

The guy grew up with Tony Soprano and kind of just became his right-hand man. And I kind of used my relationship with Bruce to do the part. One of my favorite lines is in Roaring Twenties where Bogart says to Cagney, he goes, you know, you used to ask me things, now you're telling me. And then Cagney says, so? And he goes, show my feelings she's getting hurt

very good gil very very good i love those two movies yeah good stuff one of the things i find fascinating is that that how david chase saw you at the rock and roll induction you were you were inducting your friends the turtles into the hall of fame excuse me the rascals did that little that little you wore the old rascals little lord fortnoy outfit you did a little bit of stick a little bit and he decided he saw that and he decided this guy's an actor he just doesn't know it yet yeah he called this you know, you want to be in my new TV show? I was like, jeez, that's nice.

You know. No. Not really. He says, what do you mean, no? I says, I'm not an actor, you know. Isn't that a requirement? You know. He says, don't worry, you're an actor.

You just don't know it yet. That's fascinating. I had nothing better to do, so I went down there. You went? I was out of work at the time. Some things just don't change. He saw something in your face, he said. He thought you had a Pacino look.

He thought you had a Michael Corleone kind of quality. Is that right? Yeah, I guess. But we had a very different kind of identity as a rock and roll band. We were kind of the rock and roll rat pack. We really were. And we weren't just faceless, nameless side men.

We actually had personalities. And I played the Dean Martin role, basically, Bruce's Frank Sinatra. And Clarence was Sammy Davis on steroids, you know. Right. That's a good analogy. You know, but that was really how we were. And so he saw that, that relationship that we had, you know, and knew there was an acting element.

We're all acting all the time, anyway. Of course. I mean, so it's just a matter of degrees but uh yeah he picked up on that silvio was such a beloved character what kind of mail did you get from people well yeah i mean the scariest thing really was was after the girl of the you know uh After the girl, you know. Oh, geez. Oh, when you killed Drea DiMatteo's character?

Yeah. Adriana. Right after. Yeah, Adriana. That's the character. You know, this poor girl, completely innocent girl, and gets caught ratting us out to the FBI. So I got to whack her, you know. So I kill this innocent girl, you know.

I'm walking down the street. People come up to you, yeah, man. She had it coming, man. You know. Disturbing. Right on, brother. I'm like, what's the matter with you? Are you crazy?

You know. Girl was totally innocent, you know? So, it was a scary thing, you know, a little scary. Did you get the opposite response too? yeah,

then a lot of people were pissed off because that was their favorite character, you know, they were all in love with her, you know. I watched that scene last night, it's a brutal scene. Yeah.

It's tough to watch. That's the toughest thing I ever did. Did you get a lot of women that thought it was hot that you were killing people? Well. What a question. Let me put it this way. In those days, there were some mob joints, restaurants.

And I would go to some of them, you know. And one in particular, which shall remain nameless, was particularly mob-oriented. And, you know, and they were there, you know. And when you see the real thing, it's not funny. It's not romantic. It's not like, it's not cool. It's very scary, Okay. The real guys are really scary. And, you know, uh, their wives and their girlfriends would, you know,

come up for an autograph or a picture, you know? And, uh, you know, yeah, at first, you know, yeah, sure. You know, then you take a look, you know, and look at them, how they're looking at you, you know. And I just stopped going to those places. I mean, it was like, you know. Maybe that was a good idea. No, no, that's it. I'm not even going near that place anymore. Well, they say mobsters always romanticized actors

who played mobsters. That goes way back. Well, it's a certain type, you know, that, you know, the attractive, the anti-authoritarian aspect, I think, back well it's a certain type you know that you know the attractive that the anti-authoritarian aspect i think is what it's about i mean you know 100 years ago it was cowboys or whatever i get it and it's it's one of those things where i think it's hard to know now are the gangsters imitating the gangster movies or the movies? You know, which one came up with all the cliches?

Well, that was the thing with The Godfather in particular. I mean, the book was a work of genius. And the movie, of course, the greatest movie of all time. And they were mobsters learning how to be mobsters from that movie. You know, that's a fact, you know. I mean, by the time we got to Sopranos, they ran a FBI thing, and they did the transcript in the Daily News or the Post of a bunch of mob guys watching Sopranos, you know, commenting on Sopranos.

And they were like, hey, this guy's playing you, and that guy's playing you, and look at this. And they thought we were copying real crimes. They were committing, and a certain one of us were playing their... Meanwhile, David Chase was just making the whole thing up. There was no real basis.

But it was funny seeing... They were big fans of the show, thank God. Thank God, you know. Thank God. And you said how when you saw actual gangsters, could you describe what it was to actually see actual gangsters, the feeling? Well, the main thing, you know right away, there are different species of people. I mean you know you see it in the eyes the eyes are dead they're just dead you

know I mean I can't even explain to how that is or why that is but you can see it in their eyes you know they just don't have that normal look. They just carry themselves a certain way. It's exaggerated to some extent in the movies, but sometimes it's closer than others. But they just have a certain way they dress, a certain way they talk, a certain way they talk. And, you know, it's different.

It's very different. And, you know, you don't want to get too close to that world. You know, that's not your world, really. But like I said, we tried not to romanticize that world. I mean, if you look at the Sopranos, you know, we showed that it's not the most exciting lifestyle anymore. It's a Shakespearean tragedy. It's not the Roaring Twenties, you know what I mean? Right. You know, it's a tough lifestyle, and these guys fall into it, you know,

maybe from their relatives or they had no choice, you know. They're in their neighborhood, you know. So we tried not to romanticize it, but at the same time, we had a certain respect for it. And I carried that respect right into Lillehammer. I said, you know, I'm not going to do a comedy. They wanted to do a comedy at first, you know, and I'm like, no, I can't make fun of these guys, you know.

I'm making a living, you know, more or less, you know, imitating them to some extent, but I got to do it with respect, you know what I mean? I can't be making fun of them in any way. So the humor that came out of Lille or Sopranos was out of circumstance. But Frank strikes me as a more serious character in a way than Silvio was. Silvio's kind of funny. Well. He's dark.

Well, he had fun. Am I wrong? There's a little bit of humor. Well, I think that's wrong in the sense that Silvio had more pressure on him, really. His job was to protect Tony Soprano. So he had a little bit more—I think he was a little bit more serious, actually. Frankie, the fixer, everybody loved him. He was the guy in the neighborhood that would take care of whatever the problem was.

That's why when the attempted assassination happened, he was in shock. And he says, I want to go in the witness protection program in Lillehammer, Norway, because he couldn't believe somebody would try to kill him. It's a great show. People need to find it if they haven't seen it. Yeah, it's the first show on Netflix. Yes. The very first show.

We had Joey Pants here. We had Buscemi here because we love character actors dominic we told you was here when you when you went on set and work with i mean you did you go into this and say look i've never acted before i'm going to be a sponge and and try to learn a little bit from each one of these of course peter rieger's another guy we had here from sopranos of course you know and the one i forget his fucking name all the time, and he's the king of character actors. Dick Miller.

Dick Miller. Yeah, yeah. You know Dick Miller? You know him by face. Yeah. I probably do. Bucket of Blood. All those Roger Corman movies.

Oh, oh, oh. Yeah. I love Roger Corman. Yeah. But these guys, I mean, we'd like to champion these guys who are maybe not leading men, but are doing... Well, let me tell you something. I mean, you know, I was taking it seriously.

And, you know, I was really, you know, going to work at it. But we're doing a table read the first day. And, you know, you just read through the script sitting around a table. And, you know, the next day you start filming it you know and that was a nice thing not every show does that maybe they do now but in those days it was an unusual thing and it's nice because that's the only time you're going to see the whole cast you know unless you have a scene with somebody you're never going to see them again. So everybody's around the table. You know, and I'm kind of like, the whole experience is kind of surreal to me. You know what I mean?

Like, you know, all of a sudden now I'm an actor. You know? And, uh, you know, but I'm, you know, kind of there. I'm there, but I'm not there. You know what I mean? I'm kind of half there. And, you know, the table, you know, I'm bringing the table.

And I look up, and there is Johnny Ola. Oh, geez. Oh, Dominic. Yeah. And now, you know, the godfather. Sure, sure. I don't have to tell you what that means, right? Sure, of course.

To us, too. And that's when it hit me, you know. Oh, my God, it's Johnny Ola, you know. I'm acting with johnny ola you know and it was just like a real moment of uh you know uh revelation you know that geez you know to be you know in anything with somebody from The Godfather, you know, was, you know. Yeah. It was great.

Close to Paul McCartney coming on stage. You know what's great? You're in touch with that feeling. You know, yeah, but it's, you know, there's certain things that are just, you know, way up there. Now, is there anything, any redeeming traits or factors about Godfather 3? Redeeming traits or factors about Godfather III? Well, it was tough. The main redeeming trait was the story of the Pope being assassinated,

which I think is true. I think that's based on a true story, although it's very controversial. There's a whole book about it. I think that's true. Which I read, In God's Name or something like that. So they had picked up on a very, very interesting little controversy in the church about John Paul II or whoever it was. He was just too much like Jesus Christ. You know, he was just too much with the, you know, enough with the wealth and the gold and, you know, let's get rid of all this stuff.

I mean, we're supposed to be like, you know, religious people and, you know, and they were like, you know, the bankers were like, let's get rid of this guy. So that was an interesting kind of plot, you know, a premise for the show, you know. But it was a problem, you know. They said that they had problems. It was a shame. I don't think Coppola wanted to do it. I think he got dragged into it.

Yeah. He had told the story he wanted to tell. Yeah. And they kept, you know. Twice. Twice. Twice. Two of the greatest movies ever made, you know.

And this one really wasn't based on the book. See, that's where things go sideways. No putzo. Yeah. It seemed like the people who did Godfather III had never seen one or two. Well, there's some good performances. I mean, Mantegna's good. Yeah.

And there are good moments. It doesn't add up. As soon as Robert Duvall wasn't in it, I thought this is going to be a problem. Yeah, that was a step in the wrong direction. Yeah, I mean, something happened there probably with money. But Gino started overdoing. He started getting into his big performances. Yeah, yeah.

Sometimes the story's over. Yeah, yes, yes. And you need to call it a day. Can I ask you a couple of quick questions from listeners? I'm here. Steven? We do a thing called Grill the Guest on Patreon. Luke Simon wants to know,

what is your favorite movie that your music has appeared in or been used in? That's question one. Or I can ask you his second question if you'd prefer that one. Well, my music there's been a few I gotta say it has a special place in my heart and it's Home Alone 2

because it's the first time I got a chance to work with Darlene Love after I talked her into moving to New York and I didn't work with her for 20 years love after I talked her into moving to New York. And I didn't work with her for 20 years. You know, it's like 20 years in the making. Because it was, you know, hard to figure out what to do with people like that. You know, they're too good.

You know, they don't fit into the modern world. You know what I mean? They have this thing called greatness. There's no place in the modern world for greatness. She is transcendent. But, you know, so you couldn't figure out what category, what record label's going to be interested in her. And Chris Columbus came to me and said, you're going to write a Christmas song for my movie.

I said, well, this is the perfect opportunity, you know. It doesn't have to fit in anywhere, you know. You just have to fit the movie. And, I mean, the Home Alone movies were terrific anyway, those first two. But, very funny with Joe Pesci, you know, unbelievable. So that's the answer.

Yeah, it was the Home Alone 2, yes. And part two of his question is, why did Gilbert never get cast as one of the Jews on Sopranos? Well, they didn't fare so well, as I recall. I'm not sure Gilbert... Jerry Adler, another great character fare so well, as I recall. I'm not sure. Jerry Adler, another great character actor.

Oh, no. Another great guy. No, he was our Jew, so he did okay. But, yeah, there was one with the, remember the guys with the hotel, and we took over the hotel. See, Gilbert, you dodged a bullet. Yeah, because they didn't always fare so well.

But I love the history. People don't realize the Jews in the 40s, 30s, 40s, 50s, just as tough as the Italians. Oh, yeah. Just as tough. And Murder Incorporated and all those guys were in a purple gang. Well, Hyman Roth, isn't he based on Meyer Lansky? Yes. I believe he is.

Yeah, but he wasn't one of the tough guys. But they were actually, you know, Benny Siegel. Right, Bugsy. I mean, yeah. I mean, he was a good example of it. But they were very tough. And the most successful mobs, the mob families, always were the Italians and the Jews work together.

I did a whole study about this. Fascinating stuff. In my spare time. And the cities where this, New York, most notably the Lucky Luciano Gang, Cleveland, LA, Boston, all the major cities where the Jews and Italians worked together were always the strongest families. Just a little digression there. Oh, and then there was Peter Falk later, May Brelis. Murder Incorporated. Yes, very good.

Very good. And that's where the Colombo coat came from. He kept the coat. He kept the raincoat. See what you learn on this show, Stephen? There you go. Speaking of the mob, your friend Tommy James. That's a movie that has to be made.

He was here, and we talked all about Morris Levy and what that poor guy went through. Yeah. No, that's a good story. It's a great story. It's one of the best mob stories in the business. What was that book guy went through. Yeah. No, that's a good story. It's a great story. It's one of the best mob stories in the business. Incredible book. It was so strange.

Like, he knew Morris Levy was a crook and a murderer and everything. But he says, without him, he would have been forgotten about. Yeah. In those days, it was a strange relationship um and and people later on were right to complain that they got ripped off you know because by the by the you know by the companies but i see both sides of it now you know if you didn't give somebody a reason to exploit you and to to rip you off so to speak, why should they make you a star? You've got 10 other kids around the block that can make stars.

Well, Brad Garrett's character says it in Not Fade Away. It's called The Music Business. He says it to the boys. This is from a conversation me and David Chase had. And the truth is, you know, I mean, Chuck Berry carried that monkey on his back his whole life. His whole life he was bitter about being ripped off. And I'm like,

you know what? Yes, they should have been more honest with the contracts, okay? But the Chess Brothers, you know, they're selling your singles for what? You know, 69 cents. You know? And by the time they do the payoffs and they do this and they do that, you know, they're making

20 cents, whatever it is. Times what? a million records two million you know okay and they shouldn't they shouldn't have done that but chuck berry with ten thousand dollars in cash in his guitar case before he walked on stage five days a week for 50 years so who yeah who got ripped off it's hard to do that Tommy James said it's like he was getting ripped off but had he gone with anybody

but Morris Levy he would have had one hit song and that would have been his career but that's the thing if they'd been more honest and said listen you're not going to get any royalties we're going to take all the royalties but I'm going to make you a star and you're going to work any royalties. Okay, we're going to take all the royalties, but I'm going to make you a star, and you're going to work for the rest of your life.

We'd all take that deal. I'll take that deal right now. Yeah. You know, right? Let's talk about- The podcast, yes. Yeah, let's talk about the box. I mean, the box.

Which in part you're here to promote. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's my whole catalog we finally remastered it and put it out and uh and uh 50 extra tracks you know and you were like were you like a kid in a candy store going through all that stuff i had guys finding this stuff you know because you'd forgotten about it yeah really there's I forgot about, a lot of half-finished songs and demos that I had done for the Jukes that Southside would later sing, you know,

and things like that. Very early stuff, too. Me and Southside had a country blues duo for a while, way before the Jukes. Then we put a song from that. Somebody had recorded it on a cassette in some bar. So we had that.

And a little bits and pieces. It was nice. It's a nice box set. Yeah, they sent me one. It's beautiful. Rock and roll rebel, yeah. Seven LPs. Yeah, yeah.

A real labor of love. And when we were sitting down, Frank said, you have an interesting movie poster. Oh, Dr. Goldfield and the Bikini Machine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love those beach movies. There was like nine of them, right? Or something like that.

The Frankie Avalon movies? It's in that family. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's part of that crazy family of beach movies. One of the last ones. Yeah, I think it was. And, in fact, Austin Powers.

Oh, yeah. Oh, Mike Myers. Mike Myers took some things from that. Oh, that's right. That's right. The girl bots. That's right. Yeah, the girl bots.

I never made that connection. Oh, yeah. Wow. Oh, no. He had a good eye. You know, he took a little bit of that. He took an R. Man Flint a little bit. Oh, R. Man Flint.

Oh, the fem bots. The fem bots. The fem bots. Right. That's right. That's what they're called. You've got a crazy memory. Do you want to hear a little bit?

Do you know the dr fives movies the vincent price movies yeah yeah yeah would you like to hear a little of gilbert's vincent price sure well my my favorite of course the tingler uh you know because the tingler was that monster that lived in your spine. And if you got scared and you didn't scream, it would crush your spine. So you had to scream. So the tingler gets loose in a theater

and Vincent Price starts screaming in the theater. Scream! Scream for your lives! The tingler is loose in the theater! Scream for your lives. The tingler is loose in the theater. Scream for your lives. And then after it's over, they catch the tingler. He goes, we now go back to our movie.

Look at Steven laughing. I love that stuff. Did you ever hear a better vincent price in your life that's a good one who was the crazy filmmaker who uh put you know electro oh william castle yeah with with electro whatever it was called what what was that called when he wired the seats? Oh, God. God, not a Merjo. A Merjo was the house in Haunted Hill when they put the thing on the wire. That was the paper skeleton. Yeah, that was the skeleton.

They put on a clothesline and sent it flying into the audience. And he had the coward's corner that if you thought the film was too scary you could get your money back but in order to do that you'd have to walk down this aisle and a speaker would come on the light would go on you and go look at the coward look at me so scared so then nobody would do that i run his ads on my on my radio show you know and uh i think one of them is like you know uh they sell life insurance you know before you go in you know including yes in case you had a heart attack and die you die that's right don't make it through the movie you know bob burns was one of the guys one of the technicians wiring those seats oh that's

right yeah and he used to dress up the hell was the name of that thing paul look yeah what's up yeah but it was a brand name for it something oh something right uh they all they all had that there was a merge oh and there was oh god what the hell was the name of it god? Percepto. I don't think it was that. Yeah, like. There was also Mr. Sardonicus where you had to fill out the card. Oh, the vote. They had to vote on his guilt. Yes.

Percepto vision. Was it Percepto? Percepto was a gimmick where Castle attached electric buzzers to the underside of some sea. There you go. Percepto. Yeah. Yeah.

That's when show business was sure joe dante made a great movie about him with john goodman based based on him movie called matinee which is where he plays he plays this kind of larger than life william castle showman also produced rosemary's baby made legitimate movies that's right william castle oh yeah not that those Not that the Tingler's not legitimate, Gilbert. I mean, isn't life, like, really boring compared to those days? I mean, really, what happened? What happened? And I remember- Really, could life be more boring?

No. Well, you're right. It was a renaissance period for music as well as movies and television. And then the whole 70s was all of that new wave, the new wave of the new wave. Sure, when the inmates were running the asylum. All of that, Coppola and Spielberg and Scorsese and Lucas. I remember I met Vincent Price

because they used to be on Alan Thicke's show, Pick of the Night. And then years later, I run into him and I said, you probably don't remember this, but we met on the Alan Thicke show. And he says, oh, yes, that was a terrible show. You love your pop culture references, too. You snuck in a Wizard of Oz. You know what I'm referring to on Summer of Sorcery on the Gravity song.

Oh, yeah. You snuck in a little bit of the Wicked Witch of the West's... The monkeys. The armed guards. The monkey guards. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. You like an in-joke or a little movie

reference. The lawyers were nervous. The lawyers get nervous over everything now. Could you imagine them with William Castle? Oh, they were, the lawyers were nervous. You know, the lawyers get nervous over everything now. Could you imagine them with William Castle? I mean, you know, you know, let the lawyers like, you know,

anyway, it never would have happened. So they, they, they didn't believe us at first, but we actually sang that. We didn't, we didn't sample it.

You just sung it. Yeah. We actually recreated that. The monkey, the monkey chant. There's a video of the making of, of Summer of sorcery and that's where i saw the goat the dr goldfoot and you asked me where i how i knew that the posters on the wall of your studio yeah i was like how do you how do you get in the background i don't know about that yeah and i as soon as i saw that i turned to my wife and i said this guy this is a man after our own hearts.

And you also love Palisades Park by Freddie Boom Boom Cannon. I love it. A song we love. Chuck Barris. I hung out with Chuck Barris for a long time, and one of my biggest regrets was losing touch with him before he died. But I used to hang out with him a little bit. He was a dream guest for this podcast. Oh, forget it.

But he was reclusive. Yeah, but I got him out, you know. He'd come out, you know, and I really dug him. He's great. I just lost another friend. I just lost Kooky Burns.

Oh, and Kooky Burns died, yeah. Yeah, just a good friend of mine. I had him hosting my festival. Yeah, we do have some things in common. Silver of Sorcery is a great record, by the way. I want to recommend it to our listeners. Thank you.

And it's an homage to, you know, each song, girl groups. I mean, you're always paying tribute to your antecedents. I am. I want to hear that. I want to hear a little bit of the roots in there somewhere. I can't relate to it. You know what I mean? There's a little specter in there. There's Sam C a sam there's sam cook tributes on there there's some

temptations yeah uh curtis mayfield curse mayfield you know smoky rams always um that album was a particular gift because uh i had no intention of coming back into the business honestly you know we did the soul fire album two years earlier, just for fun, songs I'd written for other people. And then that went over so big. We said, well, let's tour. And we're touring. And then halfway through the tour, some new ideas came to me.

And that album really was a gift. I think it's great, too, that you still get excited when you discover a band, when you discover a song. As jaded as a guy like you could be after all these years in the music business. You know, it's remarkable. You're still excited. It is. I feel when you hear a great song, your feelings don't change about that.

We counted the number of new bands we introduced over the last 17 years, 18 years. Over a thousand bands, you know, over a thousand. And they all have at least one great song. That's great. And it's the kind of song, you hear it and you get equally inspired and motivated just like you always did. And that is nice. I mean, it's amazing. It's the same 12 notes, same four chords.

How do people still come up with new things? It is amazing. It blows your mind, really. I don't take anything I write for granted. I'm like, every time you write a song, it could be the last song you're ever going to write. Because no matter how much craft you know, and I've been working my whole life on the craft, there's always a little bit of, it's like anything else I think, like a great comedy routine,

it might be a good movie or a book. There's a little element of mystery combined with the craft. No matter how good you are is that little thing you don't quite understand you know that comes into something that's great you know you don't know where it comes from you know and you you wish you could a little bit of stardust that makes that thing you know what i mean and you wish you wish you could capture it and own it you know but you can't it's one of them you know some magical performance sometimes you know you understand you can't predict it i like that performance sometimes. You can't predict it.

I like that you're not a snob about music. There are rock people and rock fans who are a little elitist. I mean, I'm reading your Twitter feed. You're talking about you love the Paul Revere and the Raiders and Jay Guile's band and Leslie Gore. You understand and you appreciate all kinds of music, bubble gum and British Invasion and pop and top 40 and everything. Great is great.

Peter Noon's coming in here on Friday, by the way, speaking of British Invasion. He's great. I'm trying to get him into the Hall of Fame. Some people are going to be tough to get in. It's a shame because they never made those serious records that the journalists kind of appreciate. I'm having trouble getting Jay Giles' band in.

Doesn't make any sense. Well, they get in eventually. Well, yes, I hope so. But the Rascals were tough to get in, like I said in my speech, because they dress funny. And Poe and the Reader, same thing. They deserve to get in. Like I said in my speech, you know, because they dress funny. Right. And Poe and the Raiders, same thing. They deserve to be in, you know.

They got six of the greatest rock records. Absolutely. And Mark Lindsay did good solo work. Yeah. But, you know, Peter Noone is terrific. And by the way, if you ever see his show, if he comes around. He said at the Iridium, we're going to go see it.

Go see him. This week. Very entertaining. Very entertaining. I mean, the Iridium, we're going to go see it. Go see him. This week. Very entertaining. Very entertaining. I mean, he's been entertaining since he was a kid. I know. Before he was even in a band. I mean, every time I see his show, he's just one of the greatest entertainers in the business to this day.

And a bunch of great songs. What about the Monkees? Will they see the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Well, that's a tough one. That's another challenge. That's and roll hall of fame well that's a tough one that's another challenge that's a tough one yeah that's a tougher one I don't know I don't know you know you can make an argument you know for it you know sure

but that's a tough one you know but I think you know I remember the Herman Herman's Hermit's producer Mickey Moe's talking about I don't know if it was true or not, but he left town at one point and they put out

Henry VIII, one of the more comical records against his wishes, you know. And he said, it's going to kill you. It's going to kill you. It's going to kill your career, you know. And you know, who knows if that's true. I mean, you can ask him, but there were certain, you know, who knows if that's true. I mean, you can ask him.

But there was certain, you know, and Peter has a natural inclination to be funny. He's a funny guy, you know. Those guys were entertainers. They grew up in the British music hall. I know, I know. That's a different sensibility. It was just like at that moment, you know, it's a reason why they're not taking seriously, you know. And it's a shame because it's not right. And they got a dozen great records, you know.

Yeah, I agree. So hopefully he'll get in someday. Well, do you want to let this man go home? I guess so. Do you want to sing more Jerry Lewis with him? Let me plug Summer of Sorcery again, which is just wonderful. Our listeners have got to get it. It's a fun album.

Thank you. Thank you. I'm very proud of that. It's a good time record. It's a Puente tribute on there, and it's a party record. It's the first time in my life I ever made two records in a row with the same band, both Soul Fire and Summer of Sorcery with the same band, my touring band, the greatest musicians in New York. They stuck with me for like three years.

It was amazing. So that was really, I give them the credit, honestly, for sticking with me and giving me that foundation to make something like Summer of Sorcery. And yeah, and I knew, you know, the catalog finally came out. People have been asking me to remaster it. Of course. And the box set is called Rock and Roll Rebel, the early work. Yeah, and it's like I said, all of the five solo albums plus Sun City.

There's going to be a special Sun City video thing we're going to do next year. All of the extra takes, you know. A lot of those guys are no longer around, and we have great interviews with a lot of people, Miles Davis, all down. We didn't even get to talk about Miles Davis and Sun City, but next time, if you come back and play with us again. Yeah, I'm in the neighborhood.

We want to thank Winston Simone for setting this up. And Ken, we want to thank Ken Simone for setting this up. And Ken. We want to thank Ken as well. Winston and David. Ken Weinstein. And I want to thank your assistant, Louis, for sending me that great box set. So that's where my copy went. That son of a bitch.

And you're not getting it back. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to the man who says that when Jews and Italians get together, they make excellent mobsters and hitmen. Steven Van Zandt.

That was your takeaway? Yes, that's what I learned from Stephen. It's the truth. Stephen, this was a joy. Thank you so much. My pleasure. My pleasure.

Life is dull. It's nothing but one big lull then presto you do a skull and find that you're reeling she sighs and you're feeling like a toy on a string and your heart goes ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding. How could that funny face that seemed to be commonplace project you right into space without any warning? Don't know if it's morning, nighttime, winter, or spring. What's the difference? Ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding. She takes your hand, this captivating creature. And like it's planned, you're in the phone book looking for the nearest preacher. Life is swell. You're off to that small hotel

and somewhere a village bell will sound in the steeple. Announcing to people loves the loveliest thing. And the bell goes ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding. She grabs your hand This captivating creature And like it's planned You're in the phone book Hunting for the nearest creature Life is swell. We're off to that small hotel, and somewhere a village bell will sound in the steeple.

Announcing to people who loves the loveliest things. And the bell goes ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding. Ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding Ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding Ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding, ring-a-ding-ding