Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Terry Zwigoff

Episode Date: December 13, 2021

Gilbert and Frank welcome Oscar-nominated writer-director and devoted GGACP fan Terry Zwigoff ("Crumb," "Ghost World," "Bad Santa") for a funny and candid conversation about clueless focus groups, misbehaving movie stars, tacked-on happy endings, the twisted genius of Drew Friedman and the comedy stylings of Margaret Dumont. Also, Cloris Leachman requests a nude scene, Mickey Rooney auditions to play an elf, Jeanne Moreau buys a ticket to "Crumb" and Woody Allen mistakes Gilbert for a Native American. PLUS: "Louie Bluie"! Joe Cobb! Paulie Walnuts! The art of Basil Wolverton! In praise of John Ritter! And Gilbert reads the greatest film review of all time! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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find themselves on a team? Taking on jaw-dropping obstacles all across Canada is one thing. Working together on a team with some pretty big personalities is another. It's a new season of Canada's Ultimate Challenge, and sparks are going to fly. New episode Sundays. Watch free on CBC Gem. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. God help him, a fan of my comedy and this very podcast.

God help him. He's the director of the terrific music documentary Louie Bluey, as well as the widely praised 1995 documentary Crumb, about the life and art of his longtime friend Robert Crumb, which won over audiences and critics alike, taking home the Grand Jury Prize at the Sundance, as well as awards from the National Board of Review and the National Society of Film Critics. And in 2008, Entertainment Weekly named Crumb one of the best films of the last 25 years. He also co-wrote and directed the Oscar-nominated and much-loved ghost world a movie celebrating its 20th anniversary this year as well as the 2006 comedy art school confidential and with christmas just around the corner, we would be remiss if we failed to include a favorite holiday film of the podcast, the boldly original Bad Santa, which the late film critic Roger Ebert called a demented, twisted, unreasonably funny work of kamikaze style.

A lifelong fan of actors and character actors, he's worked with some of the great ones, including Angelica Houston, John Malkovich, Cloris Leachman, Jim Broadbent, Scarlett Johansson, and my old Problem Child co-star, John Ritter. And three people who've appeared on this show,

Steve Buscemi, Ileana Douglas, and Bob Balaban. Frank and I are pleased to welcome a gifted filmmaker, the former cello and mandolin player in Arkrum and his cheap suit, Serenaders, and a man who claims that in his youth, he developed an unusual sexual attraction to the wicked witch of the West, Margaret Hamilton. The multi-talented Terry Zweigoff. Jeez, it's quite an introduction there, Gilbert.

If I didn't know it was about me i might be impressed it doubles as an obituary you just have to have found dead in this los angeles apartment san francisco in this case i guess my career is officially over by appearing on your podcast these days. So we met. Yes, we met a long time ago, like 10 years ago. Me and my wife came to see you at a horrible venue in San Francisco called Cobb's Comedy Club in North Beach. Oh, yes, yes.

comedy club in North Beach. Oh, yes, yes. And I thought you were the, the first five minutes you did were like some weird thing where you were sort of deconstructing stand-up comedy. I'd never heard you do it before anybody else. And it was incredible. And I was just laughing so hard, I was crying. And of course, the rest of the audience, these drunken frat boys and their, And, of course, the rest of the audience, these drunken frat boys and their hookers are just bored to tears. And I think you, at about five minutes in, you just abruptly switched to just telling dirty old jokes and just ran out the clock. And then I came up afterwards to ask you to sign my book, Rubber Balls and Liquor, which I love, by the the way that you're a gifted writer and uh you signed it and i tried to make a little bit of conversation with you because i was actually interested in doing a documentary about you really you seemed so uncomfortable talking to me

you know you had your eyes sort of mostly closed and you had the frozen smile on her face. And, you know, I'm enough of a socially awkward person myself to know, like, OK, leave the guy alone. And my wife actually took me inside and said, no, no, leave him alone because he's this is after his big job. And this is where he meets groupies. The girls all come up to you. Oh, yes. I get so much pussy at my shows. But Gilbert, women always say they love a guy with a good sense of humor. They're full of shit. The first thing they always say, what's the most attractive thing about a guy?

Oh, if he's funny, if he makes me laugh. Yeah, we've talked about what bullshit that is on this show many a time. Well, no, I just have to say before we start, Gilbert, you've made me laugh more than any single person on the planet. And I thank you for that. I needed the laughs, believe me. It's all that's kept me alive at this point. I'm 73 now. Oh, thank you.

You're more than welcome. What a compliment. welcome and what a compliment i i turned down a big not a big film job but a lucrative film job because they said we need you to start right around december 1st and i'm thinking i got the gilbert podcast i can't do that i'm not missing that for anything so i couldn't tell him that of course i mean i said and you wound up seeing my other doc they eventually did do a documentary i loved it i thought the guy did a great job. Neil Berkeley. Shout him out. It's called Gilbert.

Yeah, no, I loved it. I told Terry that I think Gilbert and Crumb would be wonderful if people did double bills anymore. I was going to suggest it myself. Similar subject matter. I saw you once, Gilbert, on a YouTube video. You were on some guy's show. I don't know if it was a podcast, Gilbert, on a YouTube video.

You were on some guy's show. I don't know if it was a podcast or what, some interview on a radio or something. And you were sitting in this position with your arm in a certain twisted way that I've only seen people in my really inner circle of twisted record collectors position themselves in. It was just so odd. Just so weird. You're like an honorary member of the Crum family or something. He could be. He's Gilbert Crum, the fourth brother. Gilbert, you used to do yoga.

Well, you were double-jointed back in the day. You used to sit in the lotus position. I used to be very flexible. I mean, I never actually did out now there was one yoga position i could do where i twist my arms and you know get in a lotus position cross my arms and grab my feet it was now now i would kill myself doing that yeah i have to give you guys one more plug because i love this podcast so much and i think it's in all seriousness, it is really an important depository of cultural and historical showbiz lore that I think the National Endowment for the Arts should be giving you guys grants for. It's just incredible.

And I thank you for doing it. I know you probably, well, maybe you're making a ton of money. You guys have any sponsors? A ton of money. Yes. have any sponsors? A ton of money. Yes, yes. General Motors just called today. Gilbert is sleeping on a bed made of $1,000 bills. Yeah.

Pouring in. Deserves it from that. No, Terry, that's nice of you to say. Myself, I didn't sleep so well last night. I was so tired. I thought, I didn't sleep so well last night. I was so tired, I thought, geez, how am I going to get through this podcast? But, you know, I have a pretty low bar. Any morning I wake up and I'm not just laying in a pool of my own urine, I put in the plus column these days.

Well, we appreciate the kind words. I'm so ambulatory, that's about all I can say about myself. Well, you're too modest. We appreciate the compliment. We'll look into the NEA. about all I can say about myself. Well, you're too modest. We appreciate the compliment. We'll look into the NEA. Now, tell us about Chloris Leachman Naked. There you go. Like I warned you, Terry.

No rhyme or reason. It's just going to jump around. That's fine. Well, Chloris was like a really sort of randy woman, I came to learn. The one thing i'm very disappointed myself about working with chloris was the fact that the entire time i spent with her i forgot to ask her about kiss me deadly oh wow i just blanked out on it she's in the very beginning of that film running down the road one of my favorite films that's robert aldrich right

yes and i you know who knows what story she had from that. But, you know, the kind of stories on the set that I personally experienced were when she was playing the grandmother in Bad Santa, right? The little kid's grandmother, Thurman Merman. And, you know, she was a little bit cranky at first because she didn't have many lines. She had like one sort of repetitive line but it was sort of got funny after a while can i fix you some sandwiches right a few other lines but she wanted more and i i said chloras it is what it is you got to make it what

is it i think in an attempt to try to flesh out the role no pun intended she asked me before the camera rolled she said let me just unbutton my robe here. And she unbuttoned and she's naked under the robe. And I said, you want us to film you naked under the robe? What are you thinking? She said, well, you know, from reading the script that grandmothers got dementia. And I knew this, I forget if she said it was her grandmother, but somebody she knew, an aunt or somebody would run around the house with her robe open. And of course, all I'm thinking of is the Rodney Dangerfield stories. But I said, Cloris, I don't know.

I think that might be distracting. And then she wanted to just do it with her underwear on. But we settled to keep just the robe on. But she's always flirting with the Teamsters and the people that picked her up. She's very randy. And she must have been in her 70s at that point. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. It's funny because I was doing some movie or TV show. I was sitting in the makeup trailer, and the makeup woman said to me that she worked on Cloris Leachman recently, and Cloris Leachman would sit in the makeup chair totally naked. Huh. You know, just making conversation. Doesn't surprise me. Yeah.

Yeah, she was very weird that way. I don't know. Maybe that's how she got cast in that role in the Bogdanovich film. Did you get to ask her about the famous Twilight Zone episode with Billy Moomy wishing people into the cornfield? No. She was the mom. If I could go back in time, right? Legendary career.

Let me also, because we're talking about Terry Zweigoff and Gilbert Gottfried crossover. By the way, Gilbert, Terry told me that he regrets not ever being able to offer you a role. He had you in mind for a few things. The list of people who I'm their favorite comic, who've never had me in their movies

is a who's who of Hollywood. I don't know how many times people have said to me oh my god Martin Scorsese is in love with you. He thinks that I thought I can't even get a ticket to one of his movies. How could I get a discount? Well, now Terry's in that. Well, you're hard to cast, you know, in all fairness, you are sort of a particular you have this very idiosyncratic persona that doesn't fit with everything. But still, I've come across a few things.

And anytime I've mentioned to a studio, they just, you know, oh, no, no, he's not a big enough star. He's a comedian, you know. But, you know, you're not alone in that department. I always keep you in mind. I actually have something now, if it gets going, that it would work. I'll offer it to you. You may not want it. The David Cross role in

Ghost World, you told me. Yeah, he would have been good in that. Pat Noswalt auditioned for that, too. And would any of the movies that you made be in theaters nowadays? You mean in a repertory theater? No, he means your small films.

Oh, I see. Small films like Ghost World. Would Ghost World run? It wouldn't get made these days, let alone be in a theater. They'd never give you the money to make it. They barely gave me the money back then. It was a miracle that I got the money to make that film. Interesting.

They had a test screening of that film, Ghost World. I remember the producer, my friend Leanne Helf, said, you have to go to this test screening. I said, I don't want to go. The last thing I want to do. She said, no, no, just go. They won't know who you are. You sit in the middle of the audience and just sort of get the feel of the room. I said, I'm not going to get the feel of anything.

They're not going to accept where they laugh or they don't laugh. And I don't care. I like the movie. I don't care what they think. So just go. Do me a favor. So I go. I sit through the test screening.

As soon as it's over, they start to form a focus group. And this happy sort of chiropractor type guy gets to the front of the theater. Hey, everybody, what do you think? Let's all come close and talk about this film. And I just headed out at that point and got in the elevator to go down. And two other couples got in the elevator before the door closed. They were going down to the parking garage. They're talking about the movie.

And they didn't know each other. They start out talking to each other and they overheard each other. And they each other just saying that was the worst movie i've ever seen in my life can you imagine anything more boring so i i assume the whole audience felt exactly the same way i i went home i just about fashioning a noose you know and then my producer called she sort of knew like she better call me and see how i was doing after that because it didn't go well but actually in hindsight it went great because united artists who was the studio just thought well there's nothing we can do with you know reshoots or tweaking this or changing this or that it's just sort of hopeless let's just put it out there

and see what happens and the the weird thing is it actually started doing really well they released it in in uh june or july that year and then and then there was like the attack on the world trade center and that was pretty much the end of ghost world as well i i when i was watching it i was thinking oh okay oh, okay, I see what's going to happen. He'll wind up with this girl. These two will be happy together and everything. And it's a totally down ending. Oh, it was much more down when I changed it. Oh, he had another one in mind.

I originally had Seymour hanging himself in his mother's basement. My friend Dan, who wrote the script with me, it's based on his comic. Dan Klaus. He very, very took a lot of time to wisely talk me out of that. He just said, you know, you might want to lighten up a little. That's what I was wondering. Like, were the studios saying, hey, let's have it. Everything work out at the end. They wanted a double wedding.

They did. And they wanted exactly that. They want exactly that. Yeah. Yeah. There was another ending what they wanted. Dora Birch's character to board a bus that said art school. Right.

Right. I said, but she's not going to art school. What is she getting on that bus for? I don't know. They didn't want it so they just wanted everything you know, less poetic, more explained

is what they wanted. I'm glad Dan talked to you. Dan Clowes, the great cartoonist and writer. Talked to you out of the, Seymour hanging himself. Although Gilbert might have preferred that ending. Yes. Because I can see more hanging himself. Although Gilbert might have preferred that ending. Yes. Because usually with films, it's like if it's a down, oh, what was that?

The famous, famous silent film. The Last Laugh? Yes, yes. There, see? Are you going to turn it right on? It was supposed to be like, it was the most downbeat film, most sad and depressing film. And then at the end, out of nowhere, they say,

and then he bought a lottery ticket and became rich. And it's like, what the fuck? They didn't even have focus groups then. Right. What the hell happened? Right. When did the first focus groups start, you know? That's a good question.

I remember reading there was a focus group for that film, The Champ, I think it was, that Wallace Beery film. Oh, the Wallace Beery picture? Yeah. I think there was a focus group. Wow. So they started early on. I think so. there was a focus group. Wow. So they started early on. When I was on Saturday Night Live, they started showing clips of the show to focus groups. Oh, my God. That's when you knew it was

this show is hopeless. Jesus. I loved in your book the description of Jean Domanian, because I was involved with her for a little, I mean, not romantically. She had called me about doing a Woody Allen documentary at one point. I went out and met with him. But she, she, the way you described her, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember it. You said, she's the type of person who would watch a Marx Brothers film and say, well, this Margaret Dumont is pretty good, but what does she need all these strange gentlemen running around behind her for? That sort of said it all, Gilbert. Gilbert, Terry really enjoyed your story that you've told many times on the podcast

about how you learned you were booted off SNL when you found the fan letter. Yeah, they had already fired Gene Domanian, and then they brought in Dick Ebersole, booted off SNL. Oh, you've got to tell the fan letter. Yeah. I, I, uh, they had already fired Gene Domanian and they brought in Dick Ebersole. And he said, you know, take a week off everybody. And then when we come in next week, uh,

I'll tell you each one, how we're going to do things a little different. And so I was waiting outside his office and there used to be a table where they dumped the fan letters. And all of a sudden, I see a letter there addressed to me from some girl in like, you know, Ohio or wherever. And I open it up, and it says, Dear Gilbert, I'm so sorry about what happened to you. Oh, my God.

That's how I found out I was fired. That's great. That is brutal. Yeah. Jesus. So when I went and met with him, it was like knowing you're going to have a surprise party and having to act surprised anyway, even though you know. Did you tell him about the letter? I think so, yeah.

That was too weird that she knew before I did. The other great thing about Saturday Night Live that you wrote about in your book that I remember is auditioning and Woody Allen showing up. Could you talk about that? Yes. That's great. allen showing up could you talk about that yes uh they uh you know gene dominion invited him in and there was like uh she was showing like all the thousands of people who auditioned on the on the screen and he was like stone-faced through the whole thing and then when I came on, it's the first time he spoke. And he said, is he a Navajo Indian? That never gets old.

That is the greatest. What his birthday today, by the way. It is, really? Yeah. You decided you were basically- He's a hard guy to get to laugh. Is he? Yeah. You turned down what ended up being Barbara Koppel's picture, Wild Man Blues.

Yeah, I got a call from his sister, Letty, right after the Crumb film came out. And she said, you know, me and Woody just watched this Crumb film. In fact, he sat down and watched it a second time. And we all really loved it. watch it a second time and uh we all really loved it and we me and gene dominion are are thinking of doing this documentary on woody following his jazz band through europe and we thought you'd make a terrific director and i'm thinking his jazz band through europe yeah i don't know but okay um i said but you know one of the reasons that Crump film was so good is because I really knew that guy. Well, we were good friends for maybe 15, 20 years, if not best friends before I even started the film.

So I sort of knew what to look for. I don't know Woody Allen at all, except from his films. And she said, well, we could fly out and you could, you know, hang out with him for like a week or so. And I said, OK, that'd be a good start. So they flew up. They fly me out. I'm going from San Francisco to New York. First thing I always do when I get to New York is I make a beeline for John's Pizza on Bleeker Street. It's my favorite food.

Right. So I go in there and I guess John, like, forgot to wash his hands that night because I got the worst food poisoning I've ever had. And I go back to where I'm staying and I'm thinking, oh, geez, I got to be well enough to meet Woody tomorrow. He's supposed to meet him at 3 p.m. at this Manhattan Film Center where his editing room is. And I just couldn't get off the toilet. I was there the next morning. I was just going on and on. And I'm, you know,

taking every medication. Finally, I think it's okay. So I call a cab and I make a run for over there to his place. And he's there with Sun Yi and they let me into the editing room where he's got a little office and a bathroom. And I remember that I knew somebody not very well years ago who worked for him in some capacity. And they said, whenever you're around Woody, don't order smelly food for lunch. That's the number one rule. Don't order like garlic or onions and don't use his bathroom. And I mean, that makes sense.

You know, he's a germaphobe from his films. He's a fastidious guy. So I'm sitting there and we're starting to talk you know and and it hits me and i gotta use a bathroom so i say well i'm gonna go out in the film center and use the bathroom i'll be right back and i go out there and everything's closed because it's sunday right so i i realized i've got what am i going to do run down the streets i go back in there i say you know he's oh you can use the bathroom it's fine so they're right outside the streets i go back in there i say you know he's oh you can use the bathroom it's fine so they're right outside the bathroom i go in there and it was just like a disaster just like

you know first there's no fan in there i'm trying to run some water to cover up the noise it's like the red sea opened up and my bowels have just like released this tidal wave of diarrhea. The paint is peeling off the wall. And, you know, this bathroom is so pristine you could eat off the floor. It looks like a high-end retail pharmacy or something. Anyway, I'm in there for about half an hour, and I finally am able to go back out. I couldn't even make eye contact with either one of them. I just said, yeah, I don't feel so good. Can I

come back tomorrow and we'll talk? He was very nice about it. He never mentioned it again. We're off to a good start with that. What a story. Gilbert, I think of all the sad casting, the things you were never cast in, the fact that

Woody never cast you as a Navajo is heartbreaking. Because there were all those Westerns that Woody was making. Yeah, he made so many good Westerns. He liked John Malkovich, he told me, as an actor. And I knew John a little bit. He produced Ghost World and was in one of my other films. And I wanted to know why he liked him.

And he said, well, cause he doesn't say anything. He doesn't pester you with questions. You just tell him to do something. He does it. He doesn't need like, doesn't even want to make conversation. That's perfect for me. Gilbert, you'd be perfect for Woody. Terry shares our love of Broadway, Danny Rose. I was telling him, which was an inspiration for this podcast. In what way? One of the original conceits was let's just put a bunch of guys together telling old stories. You know, it didn't quite work out that way.

Well, the opening scene in that film is so great. And then the ending where they all come over for Thanksgiving. Yeah, it's wonderful. The blind xylophone player and the woman who plays music on the glasses, you know? This is so great. But I don't know, he's been a real mensch to me. I've always thought he was a really stand-up guy. I've known him for quite a while, since they called me in 95.

Interesting. Over the years. What do you think? I've had dinner with him a few times. And, oh, I got to tell you, because Gilbert would be interested in this. I know you like James Mason, right? So I go to, I'm meeting, I'm in New York years later, and I get together with Woody to have dinner at some crappy food place that he likes. Very expensive on the Upper East Side.

And it's his turn to pay, so I'm not too worried about it. But we get there, and this other guy soon shows up who joins us. And I'm trying to figure out who the hell this guy is. And it turns out it's his agent, this guy John Burnham at ICM. Oh, yeah, I know that name. He's a really nice guy, really interesting, funny guy. We're talking. I really hit it off with the guy.

interesting, funny guy. We're talking. I really hit it off with the guy. At a certain point, he says that he used to be James Mason's agent. I said, well, who else did you represent besides Woody right now? He says, nobody. I'd like to sign you. I'm thinking, I have this agent. I really like it, William Morris, but I got to sign with James Mason's agent. So I did. Just don James Mason's agent. So I did actually sign with him. Just don't use his bathroom. He's got me as much work in the last five years as he's gotten James Mason in the last five years.

That's a great line. Zero. All right, Gilbert, since he brought it up, treat Terry to 30 seconds of James Mason. We'll make his day. And from this point on, you will have no recollection of Joe Pendleton or Leo Farnsworth. It's your destiny, Joe. That was great. That was great. Tell us about, since we're talking about Crum, and this stuck with me.

Robert, you pestered him for three years or so to get him to agree to do it. And there was a quote you said, it's a pain in the ass having someone follow you around with a movie camera, which I think Gilbert can relate to. Oh, yes. After the doc. Yeah. No, I wish I had filmed that Gilbert documentary. I don't know if I would have done as good a job as that guy. That guy did a really good job. Neil, yeah. I are, you know. Instead, he's constructing a joke and telling it with his delivery that's just like so great that, you know, I have the utmost respect for it.

But most people don't consider it much of an art form, you know. But Frank, you look like you're living in your dead mother's bedroom. I am. I am. Just chase the black cat off the rut that her body has left in the mattress there. Yeah, I got Francis Bavier under there. My wife is a decorator. According to legend, Francis Bavier, she had about 100 cats toward the end. And when they discovered her lifeless body, it was being eaten by the cats.

Do you know Frances Bavier from the Andy Griffith show? She was Aunt Bea on the Andy Griffith show. Right, right. Yeah, Gilbert claims that she was consumed by cats. Irving cats. She was consumed by cats. Irving cats. But talk a little bit about Crumb, because I got a lot of questions here from listeners about it.

What do they want to know? Well, I'll ask one here. As long as we're... Mark Skoback, how did Terry discover that song, Last Kind Words, that he used in Crumb? Record collector, sort of a, you know, it's on a bunch of reissues. I can't afford a copy of it. I think there's two known copies and one is like cracked and that's like $35,000 or something if it's for sale. Yeah, no, I just wanted to use a lot of music I loved in the film.

And luckily, me and Crum share the same taste in music, so I could just use my records. Michael Murphy says, the Charles Beatrice dynamic always fascinated me. Were they as avoidant of each other to the level the viewer observes while watching? Well, I was only in their house twice in my life. I was there to film that one day, and I was there in 1974, about 20 years before that. Well, no, 20 years before that. You met the old man, actually, huh? Yeah, I met the old man. Wow. Yeah, he was a bit scary. But Robert and I were looking actually for old blues records and jazz records, which we both collected in the South. And then we were heading up to New York to meet this record producer of ours who put out our awful bands record,

the Cheapsuit Serenaders. And so we're heading for New York and around Philadelphia, the car started to have big problems and it was getting dark. And I said, we're going to have to find a place to pull over and deal with this in the morning. And he said, let's just like go to my, my parents live near here. I haven't seen him a long time. I'd like to see him anyway. Been a while. I haven't seen my brother, Charles. Let's go over there. And I said, okay. So we go there and her mother makes this big spaghetti and meatball dinner. And I love her. I think she's the greatest. I love Charles. I'm having a good time. These are my people. And didn't smell too good in there, I've got to say.

I imagine not. I did like them, and I thought they were very funny. And I enjoyed hanging out with them. And then after dinner, we went upstairs to Charles' room, just like you see in the film. And he pretty much talked exactly the same as he did in the film at that point. You set out to make the documentary about all the Crumb brothers, not just Robert. Yeah. No, well, I tried to include the sisters, but they weren't—they didn't quite share that same cartooning compulsion.

They didn't quite have that same sibling rivalry as the brothers, and neither one of them wanted to be in the film. They both—I called them both and got nowhere with them but they might have been good i don't know crump said they would have not been that interesting we will return to gilbert gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this and you were talking about fascinating family something that that we discussed on this show a few times, the connection of comedy and music. Uh-huh. Yeah, I think there's quite a connection to that. I mean, you see a lot of rappers and musicians somehow are able to make the jump from being musicians to being actors.

Like Lady Gaga looks really good in this new Gucci film is that what it is yeah yeah House of Gucci yeah I saw a clip of that geez really good actress and and you know there's rappers all the time who make that leap um I don't know I always found that acting as probably is doing stand-up is you need a certain musical ability. You know, there's a lot involved with pitch and phrasing and dropping the pitch at the end of a line or raising the pitch. All these nuances. I mean, I can best describe it as if you look, one of my favorite character actors is Kathleen Howard, who played W.C. Field's wife in two of his films, You're Telling Me and It's a Gift. And she's so musical.

It's just so inherent. She actually had studied as an opera singer, as did Margaret Dumont, believe it or not. Early in her career, this was her second career. This is her third career. Kathleen Howard's second career was she was a I think she was the fashion editor for Vogue magazine, like way back in the 30s, 40s. I don't know. But then must have been before that, because then she began her film career with Fields. And so she played his long suffering wife. But she would you know, she would modulate this sort of nagging. So it wasn't just immediately like sort of one note it would be sort of like she'd be almost singing it and it was so funny if you go back and look at the way

she delivers her lines she always has this you know incredible choice that she makes and how she does it it's a gift again it's different all the time it's always funny and the mox brothers were old musicians that's right they were yes yeah we've talked about this too what's that good ones indeed too yeah we've talked about it's got to be that way with stand-up i mean you're the way you sell a joke i mean who writes like if you i recently saw the roast of uh rosanne right now did you write all your own material for that uh on and off sometimes i write sometimes they they've always said you know there's stuff i come up with and they always say uh when they one of the guys that wrote the rose said whenever there were jokes that

apparently comic turned down because they thought they were just too bad taste and they didn't want to say it, that I always said, oh, I'll do that one. Did you get to pick before you did them? Yeah, yeah. I would just pick the ones that I thought were the most tasteless. Yeah, well, it's, I mean, I can't imagine anybody else pulling that off what you did

just on that roast let alone you know your whole career but i think that's indicative of the whole thing that you just have a way i you know i'm sure you didn't develop a delivery overnight i'm sure it was like a long process to get to that but and yet he's one of the least musical people I've ever met. Really? You don't play an instrument? That was my next question. No, never. Plays the Jews harp. Wow. Well, maybe you are and you don't know. And the Roseanne roast. This is my favorite part. After I got through, I actually got a standing ovation. That was great. That was great. Very nice. Very nice. But, I mean, could anybody else have told those jokes as well? Nobody.

I mean, do you know any good comics who don't have, like, a very strong delivery, who just say things, like, in a flat monotone? Well, unless that's their gimmick, like Stephen Wright. Right, right. The flat monotone. Well, I shouldn't have said flat monotone, but they don't have anything special about their delivery who are really funny? Interesting question.

It's kind of like a movie we've discussed on this show a few times is Bud and Lou, where Harvey Korman and Buddy Hackett as Abbott and Costello. It's a terrible TV biopic, Terry. And it's like they don't have that, you know, like particularly Who's on First? That has a very musical sound to it because you get caught up in the rhythm of it. Yes. And they didn't have that rhythm in it. Well, worse than that,

it sounded like they'd never heard the routine before, especially Hackett. Yes. And they didn't have that rhythm in it. Well, worse than that, it sounded like they'd never heard the routine before, especially Hackett. Yeah. Yeah. But a lot of comedians, Mel Brooks is a musical person. I mean, the Smothers Brothers, Victor Borga, obviously. I can tell from watching a film usually within the first 10 seconds if the film's going to be any good or not. And it's by the music. I mean interesting. At least, I don't know if it, I shouldn't say that. I should say if I'm going to like it or not, it's by the music. All the good film directors were great with music. Everybody.

You know, Kubrick, of course, was the master. But every single one. There's never going to be a great film made with terrible music. Do you start listening to music to get into the mindset before you direct to get a, to get a feel for the film? No, but I always have it in mind because it's, you know, obviously my first film, that's, that's sort of where it started was finding this little record of this guy. And it just knocked me out and that led to a film.

But in general, if I can find the type of music that's going to fit this film to compliment it, then the rest sort of falls into place rather easily. And if I don't find it, like in Art School Confidential, I have a hell of a time directing the film. I didn't have any music for that film. And I finally went to Dan and I said, Dan, this opening sequence, I can't find any music where they're arriving at college to put in there. If I put in like some sort of upbeat music, like, you know, you'd hear like in a good Harold Ramis comedy or Fairley Brothers film, it just doesn't seem like me. It doesn't seem like my film. It works with the motion of it. Just I can't live with that. And he had something he had saved with this weird marching band that sort of worked for

me, but I couldn't. It was very difficult. I heard that Mel Brooks will audition actors wanting to hear them sing first. Huh. Huh. Interesting. That's a good idea. And when he auditioned Cloris Leachman for Young Frankenstein, she also insisted on being nude. Do tell the story about the film forum and crumb because that's interesting uh well crumb was only playing in one theater in new york when it opened it which was the film forum and it was run by this woman karen cooper and i had a big argument with her when it first opened up i said you're not used i have like these quotes saying this is the best film of the year and this why use these good quotes and she said no, no, she was very smart.

She said, no, no, people want to feel like they've discovered the film on their own. And she said, look, the best advertisement for, and then the other thing I started nagging her about was I said, you've got this line around the block and you're only keeping it in one of the three theaters. Why don't you put it on two screens? And she said, because that line around the block is the best advertisement for your film. And she was right. And it ran there for nine months.

Wow. Anyway, I used to check in with her every week, of course, to see what the box office was. And she'd always say, oh, it's sold out, sold out. Every show is sold out. And she said, but you know, who's bought a ticket to your film five times in the last month? It's Jean Miro. And I thought she was talking about the Spanish sculptor Juan Miro instead of the French actress, right? And I said, yeah, I thought he was dead. She said, no, no, Jean Moreau. I said,

oh yeah, geez, one of my favorite actresses. What's she doing going to that film? I think she was a director at one point. Did you ever try to get in touch with her and ask her why? I wrote her a script. I was in the middle of writing this thing for Johnny Depp that was based on a – I should actually get close to this microphone. But the whole first half of the show is useless now. I got a job. My agent represented Johnny Depp and said, Johnny has this French novel he wants you to adapt into a film and direct. And I said, okay, sounds good. She sends it to me. And I communicate with Johnny Depp. I think it was through email. And he said, could you come down and meet with me about it? And so I figured, okay, I better read this damn thing. And I didn't get anything out of the book

at all. It was just like this old woman in like a rest home. And how can I make this funny? You know, it had its touching scenes, but I was just going to mangle it. So my intention was to go down there and just tell them, you know, sorry. Thanks for thinking of me. And then my agent told me how much money it would be to do it. And I said, oh, it's the greatest. And I love it.

I mean, and I said, but, you know, I might need somebody to write this with, because I knew I just couldn't do it alone. And he actually suggested Jerry Stahl. Oh, the Permanent Midnight. Yeah. And we sort of got along together. We wrote the whole thing via email and phone. I think we got together once in the same room, but that was better for both of us. And so we're writing the thing and

it's also in the retirement home. It's about a guy who decides to drop out of life and just check himself into a retirement home where it's just quieter. I don't know what our rationale was. It's a funny premise. Some cockamamie premise like that where he's had it with everything and he's going to escape the world. And he gets involved with this older woman in the home. And I thought, oh, Jeanne Moreau could be this woman. She's this sort of mysterious French woman who lives there. And so we wrote this whole thing.

And then I had the idea to cast Tony Sirico as one of the residents. Is that Paulie Walnuts? Paulie Walnuts from The Sopranos. And some guy, before I had that idea, I was actually on some radio show, and the guy was saying, so, you know, you direct films. Who are some of the movie stars you'd love to work with? I said, I don't really like working with movie stars. They're a pain in the ass.

I like character actors. And he said, well, who are some of the character actors? And it sort of threw me. I was like unprepared to name a list because most of mine are like, you know, from minor roles in W.C. Fields films. We know you love Percy Helton. Percy Helton. But I said, I figured I got to be more contemporary than this. So I had just watched The Sopranos episode.

So I knew all those guys. So I said, oh, yeah, Tony Sirico and Frank Vincent and a list of people like that. And so two days later, I get a phone call in the middle of the afternoon. I pick it up. It says, yeah, Terry, it's Frank. And my mind's racing. Frank, who the hell is Frank? He says, so what do we got going? When do I start?

When do I get paid? I'm like, who is this? Oh, it's Frank Vincent. He heard that I mentioned about the radio show. And he wanted to know when we start. I said, well, Frank, actually, I don't have anything right now for you, but I always have you in mind. And I actually went back with you and we wrote this part for him in the thing, but the thing never got financed. Now, during the show, I've been catching glimpses of this review.

Are we ready for the review to go? Knock yourself out. Oh, this is the Ghost World review. Yes. Go ahead, Gil. This is VanguardNewsNetwork.com Ghost World. I know it's been out for a while, but if you're ever pursuing the video store looking for a movie to rent, don't make it Ghost World. to rent. Don't make it Ghost World.

This movie, directed by Jew, Terry's wife, laughter laughter laughter laughter laughter

is the quintessential example of anti-white propaganda. In fact, in fact, when kike swiped off, it's straight before a justice of the new world order. It is this film that prosecutors will use to sentence him to death by a crack-crazed... They are crack, crack-crazed s***.

The story... The story is about two bitter, sadistic girls who are graduating from high school. They are, of course, disgusted by America's vapid, consumer-driven society, you know, where people actually have to work to buy things that they need to survive. One of the girls, Rebecca, played by Scarlett Johansson, is a pretty white girl, although a piss-poor actress who slowly becomes something really awful, a shallow consumer. She gets a job, rents an apartment, and is even seen shopping at Crate and Barrel. Meanwhile, Anid, played by Thora Birch, a sassy, misunderstood nonconformist who just wants to create art and figure out what's wrong with the world. And, of course, we're reminded several times throughout the movie, Enid's a Jew. He nids a Jew.

In Step, Seymour, played by Steve Buscemi, is a pathetic 40-ish loner that collects 78 records, at first perceived as a dork. He eventually achieves godlike status with a nid, mainly because Seymour hates everyone, also a pseudo-nonconformist, and only listens to n***a ragtime and blues artists. eventually 40 is seymour and 18 ish a nid wind up in the sack this is a creepy scene that can only come to countless hours of fierce masturbation for Zweigoff and his ilk. The movie ends in a confused, artsy statement about life's journeys and breaking away, attempted in true Jewish fashion, because Weigoff, like his fellow hack Spielberg

and other Israeli directors, desperately wants to communicate on an intellectual level, but can't. Wow. That is the greatest review I've ever read. I thought the same thing. But, you know, it's the only review i'll ever be compared to spielberg about so you know where did that appear terry it appeared in something called vanguard news network somebody somebody sent it to me i was gonna ask him was the daily stormer it's my

dream to hear gilbert read that gilbert you know i know that you read like what was it like that uh what's the romance film? Ninety Shades of Grey. Fifty Shades of Grey. The perfect film for you to read is Eyes Wide Shut. Come on. All right, let's use this segue to get into Bad Santa. And working with Billy Bob.

Oh, God. Just let me preface. You're killing me. Let me preface that by saying, because casting is a favorite part of filmmaking for you. Yeah, well, we should talk about casting the role that eventually went to Billy Bob. It's sort of an interesting story. What happened? I mean, Miramax came to you and gave you five options? Well, Miramax, you know, I got approached first by,

my agent sent me this script and she said, here's the script. You're going to love it. Don't get your hopes up. You're never going to get it made. And in fact, I shopped it all over Hollywood and everybody said no. And many studios were offended by it. And I remember arguing with one guy saying like, it's like the guy's not even i'm not even you know purporting that this is santa claus and santa claus is a religious figure you know he's a he's a crook he's dressed up like santa claus so you're offended by that and what i don't know i didn't quite get it but anyway the everybody turned it down was i gave up on it been sitting at my desk for about six months. I sort of went on to other things. I get a call one day from the Weinsteins. And they say, we just saw Ghost World.

And I'm thinking like, gee, we sent you the script to try to get money for it a long time ago. You guys didn't seem to like it in script form. I didn't say anything. And they said, we want to do a Terry Zweigoff film. I said, yeah, okay, sounds good. They said, so what do you got? You got a book, you got an idea, you got a script. I said, I have this script, Bad Santa, that I like. They said, FedEx it to us right away. FedEx it so we get it 10 a.m. tomorrow morning. I said, okay. And so got off the phone and I'm thinking like,

Jesus, FedEx is like 20 bucks. I just put this in the mail for like three, four bucks in that media mail. There's no rush. And my wife wisely said, no, no, send it FedEx, get it to them. And they actually called me by noon the next day and said, hey, we got a deal. Let's do this movie. We're all in, you know, which is. Wow. You know, the good news and the bad news.

Yeah, a lot of bad news. The bad news is they're making your movie. The bad news is it's the Weinsteins who like to say, collaborate with directors. Like Gilbert, if they collaborated with you, this is how they would put it. They would say, we're going to hire some hack to rewrite every one of your jokes so that they're awkward and clumsy. And then we want you to deliver them in a flat monotone there we've collaborated aren't you happy that's sort of what was my experience was like but no they they said okay no we love it and who are you thinking of for the lead for the santa and i said i don't know like bill murray maybe i'm off the top of my head i'd stop thinking about this film for months you know and uh they said

what what about deniro we're going to send you to to meet deniro get on the next red eye to meet deniro going at midnight tonight i said okay so they flew me first class i'd never been in first class before first class was completely empty it was a midnight flight the only other person first class was monica lewinsky and she had those like 16 inch steel knitting needles this is right at the height of like you know the tsa taking away they took away my toenail clippers which were about two inches long you know before i boarded the plane and i go in the first lesson yeah and i say she's got like 16-inch steel needles. I thought that was weird, but I didn't say anything to her.

I probably should have. Would have made a good story on this show. But I get to New York, and they let me get some sleep. And they say, okay, we're going to – Bob Weinstein said, I'll pick you up in a car, and we drive up to the Dakota where his producer is, Jane Rosenthal. And Jane Rosenthal, I had heard, really loved me and loved my work and was putting in a good word with De Niro. Oh. And I thought, OK, great. And I'm thinking to myself, though, is Robert De Niro going to be funny in this movie? Gee, I don't know.

You know, I've seen him do like sort of a bad Santa skit on Saturday Night Live, and it wasn't too funny. But maybe it was the writing, you know. But, you know, it's Robert De Niro, right? The greatest living actor. You got to go meet him. So we're driving uptown, and Bob's in the car, and he's mulling over out loud to me. So what should I offer him? $20 million?

Should I offer him like $15? Should I offer him like 15? What do you think? It's like 15, 20. You might as well be talking to a chimpanzee. I don't know what that kind of money means, you know? I don't, you know, that's not my department, Bob. You offer him what you're going to offer him. But what I forgot to say was right before his car picked me up, I got a call from, I think it was Jane Rosenthal, maybe it was her assistant or something saying, when you come, don't bring any producers up with you. Mr. De Niro does not want any producers here. I said, okay. So I'm in the car and we're almost there. And I said, so Bob, so I got a call and they say, you know, Mr. De Niro doesn't want any producers to come up with me. He said, fuck him. If I'm paying the guy $20 million, I'm going up there.

So, okay, oh boy, this is going to be great. So we go up there, and he's not there yet, and we're making chit-chat with Jane Rosenthal. She's nice enough, but she looks a little put out that Bob is there. But what am I going to do? Order him to stay in the car? I don't have any clout over the guy. Order him to stay in the car? I don't have any clout over the guy.

Anyway, Robert De Niro comes in, and he looks a little put off by Bob Weinstein being there. And all I could think of to do was to say, you know, after some initial chit-chat and pleasantries, I just said, could you guys please excuse us? Let me just, I just need to talk to Mr. De Niro alone. So they both left the room. I think they were both pissed at me at that point. But they both left the room and I just sort of told him like, hey, I just got to ask you this burning question. In the King of Comedy, there's this extra and he's in the back of the scene where you're talking to Diane Abbott in this restaurant. And he's so distracting. It's all I could think of through the whole scene. Was this like Scorsese's intention? Who was

this guy? He's staring straight at the camera the whole time. He's mimicking you when you do this thing with your hands like this. He does it. It's just so weird and distracting. He must have thought I was nuts or something. He finally got a... He just said it was a friend of mine. He needed a job.

It's the guy who plays Maury in Goodfellas. Yeah, I think it's maury the wig guy yeah yeah yeah anyway and we finally got around to talking about the script he said i haven't seen any of your films i haven't read the script they sort of skim through it really fast seems like a one joke movie and i said well i don't quite see it that way. Or, you know, it's the way you tell the joke. I don't know. I think it could be very funny. And, you know, he said, well, I got this commitment to do this sequel. And then I got to be in the Midwest doing this sequel. And you'd have to shoot in New York and have all these limitations.

And I said, yeah, well, you know, we'll see what works out. And then we leave. And Bob went, so did you talk him into doing it? And I'm thinking, boy, you got the wrong guy to talk him into doing anything. I don't think he was very interested, Bob. He said, well, we're going to go to Nicholson then. So then they went to Jack Nicholson. Jack Nicholson loved the script.

Loved me, I heard, for some reason. And I had heard that his friend Bob Raffleson liked me, so I was in good with him. So he was going to sign on, but he had just signed on to Something's Got to Give, that Diane Keaton comedy, and he was trying to get out of it to do this. Maybe I shouldn't say that. Whatever. I don't have zero fucks left to give at this point in my career. And then, so he didn't work out. And then they had they had a list of five guys.

The next guy on the list was Sean Penn. And he lived near me. He lived like an hour away. Wow. And they said, well, just go go meet him for lunch. It's like an hour's drive. So I drove over to his house. He's very nice to me.

And, you know, we had a nice lunch. He showed me some funny outtakes of stuff and we laughed. And, you know, I'm thinking to myself, would he be good? I don't know. I'm not going to ask him to audition. I'm not going to ask him or De Niro to do an audition for me. So I told Weinstein that he said, yeah, both those guys, Sean Penny might be too mean. It wouldn't be funny to ask him to audition. Call him. I said, I'm not going to ask him. You call him and ask him to audition. So neither one of us. Actually, Bob did.

He did call me and ask him to audition because I heard a story. Yeah, yeah. Sean called and left a message on my voicemail imitating Bob Weinstein perfectly where I thought it was Bob. He said, yeah, I want you to audition. And, you know, and then he did his side of the conversation. I guess what really happened was Bob called him, asked him to audition. He just said, fuck you. I'm not

auditioning for you, you fat fucker. Whatever. It went down. Then we're on to the next guy, who was Bill Murray. He never returned my phone calls. I just left messages on his machine. And then we're down to, for some reason, on the bottom of the list was Billy Bob Thornton. And I thought, oh, it's weird that they'll, you know, he's not as big a star, but I guess they did, you know, their big Oscar-winning film together, Sling Blade.

Right. And that must have made some money. So they were interested in him. And so Bob said, well, let me call him. We'll do a three-way call. We get him on the phone. And he's nice enough, and he's talking, and he says, yeah, well, I love the script. I think Terry would be great.

I just, I'm not going to, I'll do it, but I'm not going to do, I'm not going to say any profanity, and I won't do anything that involves any sexuality. And we're both sort of speechless, thinking, well, I got a 20 minute movie now. And eventually he came around on that and called Bob back, I think, and said, it was just something, he had a bad experience with the press and they had pressed him about some sex scene or something. And he, and I said, okay, okay. And then we met and he seemed nice enough, you know, all actors are in the audition. They want the job. They want the job. Right. And but, you know. He I don't know if he was a method actor.

I guess I should preface the story with I had run into the guy who had done the original Sling Blade as a short film called, they called it Sling Blade. His name was George Hinkenlooper. He was at the St. Louis Film Festival when I was there. And I went up to him and said, hey, I really love this short. And how come you never directed the feature? How come Billy Bob Thornton directed the feature? And he didn't want to talk about it. I later learned, and I saw in print, and so I don't get it wrong, I actually wrote it down. He said, quote, Billy Bob Thornton was so abusive to me and the people I was working with that I could no longer really stomach talking to him. So it's a little bit of concern when Billy Bob was hired, but I thought, you know, people act differently in different situations with different directors. This will be fine.

But he was just an insufferable asshole. Just an insufferable prick. I mean, and, you know, it started out where, you know, he'd be drinking. And I think, oh, maybe it's just the booze. Because, you know, at 7 a.m. in the morning, he'd be there with his paper cup. And it would smell like he was drinking, like, a combination of bourbon and Old Spice aftershaves, a really nasty-smelling concoction. I don't know what the hell it was to this day. Well, it's in character. Yeah, and so, okay, it's just, you know, I start work with him, I realize, yeah, he's a lot better when he's not drunk, you know. When he's

sober, he's given a much better performance. It, not quite as flattened out. It got to be rather like sort of one note mean, you know, instead of like the Kathleen Howard variations I was talking about, the modulating. And so, you know, I think he did try to be nice the first couple weeks. He was pretty nice, I have to say. The first couple of weeks, he was pretty nice, I have to say. And then it's just like one day he just like went off on me. And it was like from that point on, it was like, you know, you remember Breaking Bad, you know, that Mexican meth dealer villain, Tuco Salamanca. He was like that. He was that volatile where, you know, that guy would turn around and cut your throat. You'd have another snort of meth and get in a great mood for 30 seconds.

It was very unnerving and not any fun. If you want to get a very good sense of what it was like, there's a thing on YouTube that's called, just Google, like, Billy Bob Meltdown. He has a meltdown on some TV or radio show. Is that the clip you sent us? Yeah, I sent you that clip, yeah. Yeah. Where he refused to answer a question from this. Yeah. You know, it's just,

it's just sort of squirrely and difficult. And, you know, it just was created such a toxic work environment that I still resent him for it to this day. Cause it could have been fun. Everybody else was great. Everybody else in every picture I've ever worked with has been great.

It was just awful. Just for the record, I was backstage at the Tonight Show, and Billy Bob Thornton said he was a fan of mine. So I can now add him to my list of people of, well, he was always nice to me. Yeah, he was very charming. I was very charming to a lot of people. I got about three weeks into shooting, I got a phone call from a film director.

I probably shouldn't mention his name, but he's a well-known guy. And he called saying, you don't know me, but I'm calling to give you moral support because I just directed him a couple movies ago. And let me guess, day 12, right? And I said, yeah, it was around day 12. What does that mean? He said, it means you've shot enough film where you can't fire him. So he's going to be an asshole.

I said, oh, okay. I said, how did you deal with it? Because it's really given me a nervous breakdown. He said, I spent a lot of time in my trailer doing deep breathing exercises. And then after Bad Santa came out, I got a call from Harold Ramis. You know who ramus sure sure of course yeah i know him a little bit but not much um and he had just seen bad santa and it was just sort of a congratulatory phone call like hey i

love the movie it's so funny and i oh thank you it's really nice of you to call and uh he said and i'm thinking of using the guy you who did the music for Bad Santa, this guy, David Kittay. Is he any good? I said, yeah, he's good. And, you know, told him, you know, what I thought his pros and cons were. And he said, yeah, I'm really excited about this movie, The Ice Harvest. I got John Cusack. I just hired Billy Bob Thornton. So Billy Bob Thornton is going to be so great. He was so great in your film. And I'm thinking, Jesus, should I warn Harold of this? It was a bit of a dilemma. And I didn't say anything because I thought, you know, maybe they'll just have a different relationship than we had. And about four months go by, I get another call from Harold Ramis. He just finished shooting the film the film he says why didn't you fucking warn me that was the biggest prick i've ever been in my life miserable every fucking day i've never seen anything like it i've directed really difficult actors and i just said i'm really sorry harold i thought it was just me whoa maybe maybe it seems like the craziness and drinking actually worked. It made him so believable. Well, as I say, he was better on the days he was sober. There were days I could tell he was sober.

And he was much better as an actor, I thought, in my opinion. I don't want to pile on, Terry, but I worked with him on The View, and he was nice to me, too. More power to you. Maybe he's just going through a bad period. I mean, he was in the middle of Angelina Jolie divorcing him. Maybe that had something to do with it. He also gives off a scary motherfucker vibe, though. Yeah. Well, there's that, and then the fact, that'd be one thing, but I had this studio that was you know just killing me you know i i would call them up i remember in casting their their their way of of responding to you if they didn't agree with you they just hang up on you they wouldn't even discuss it so i would say like they'd i'd say like they'd call and say so who are you thinking of you know for the for the

chapaska part the part that eventually went to John Ritter? And I said, well, I don't know. I thought, like, maybe Eugene Levy, and I started listing some people. As soon as I got to Eugene Levy, I'd hear a click every time. So I stopped bringing him up. I don't know. At first I thought, oh, the phone must have been disconnected. That's how naive I was.

They would just hang up on you. They're not just mobsters or ordering a hit. Now, John Rutter worked twice with him. He worked in that and he worked in Swingblade. I forgot that when I heard him. Yeah, and then I realized on the set, oh, these guys are friends. Good. Oh, John was like the sweetest, most generous guy in the world.

And just a wonderful actor and physical comedian. He developed this shuffle that he does in this one scene when he's walking to the large woman's dressing room. It was so funny. And then actually when he came into audition, he read and it was okay. I wasn't laughing, but I could tell it was as good as anybody else, and I like John Ritter. So I was inclined to give him the part anyway. And he came up to me hilariously prissy character. This guy was so squeamish at anything off color that he would start to get nauseous and throw up in his mouth a little bit. He'd be acting like he sort of had a dry mouth. So, you know, at the point where Bernie Mac says to him something like, yeah, well, you know, Santa fucking someone in the ass. And then his face would almost involuntarily wince and he would look like he had just like vomit in his mouth.

And I just, I ruined every take. I had to wind up leaving the room and watching the video monitor down the hall because I just was laughing so loud. Like Preston Sturgis used to stuff a handkerchief in his mouth to not ruin takes. That's right. That's what you had to do.

But Amy Yazbeck told me after he died, right after we've wrapped the film, he died, which was devastating to me. And I only worked with the guy for a week and I cried. I don't cry for my own family dying. You know, I was just. Wow. It was such a great guy. Wow. He was such a great guy. And she said, she told me the story.

Well, the story originates where the first day of his shooting happened with Bernie Mac. They had scenes together in Bernie Mac's office. It's the scene where Bernie Mac is, I had this conceit for Bernie Mac always being grouchy where I thought, oh, you know, his backstory is he's constipated. So I'll give him some Metamucil to drink the first scene. And then the next day, he's on to eating oranges. And I'm sure Gilbert, if he's ever seen the film, thinks, yeah, this is his homage to Cesar Romero, the oranges. So you do listen to the podcast. Yeah, he does.

But in truth, it wasn't an homage to, to you or him. I didn't even know the podcast at the time, of course. And, but he's doing the scene and Bernie is just like speaking gibberish. And they're,

they're doing the scene together. And it's the first shooting and they hadn't rehearsed. And I thought, well, maybe I should have rehearsed because Bernie doesn't know his lines and he's just saying this weird stuff and john doesn't even know when to jump in to try to give his line finally i take bernie aside and say bernie are you okay what's going on and he says oh i'm really sorry i just i grew up watching him on tv and that guy's like a hero to me i am am just so nervous in his presence. And I said, oh, he

loves you. You know, we all love you, Bernie, you know, just relax. Let's see. Let's just break for a second. And he came back and he sort of got it together. And from that point on, he was really good. And he never had that problem again. But anyway, John had a horrible time that first day because he was just like not feeding him any lines. He didn't even know when to come in. And Amy said that when he came home that first day, he still had his makeup on. She remembers because he just fell on the floor in front of her and she didn't want his makeup on the rug. She remembered him still having that makeup on.

But she said, what happened? Looks like you bent through the ringer. And he said, stick a knife in me. Stick a knife. me stick a knife what like swigoff was like a monster or something no no and then i guess he explained it and and when you when you talked about how uh bernie mack was in awe of uh ridder uh-huh three's company is what he grew up with i guess we We had John Amos on the show. Oh, no kidding.

John Amos told us that he once did a movie with Ernest Borgnine. And at times, he would just look at him and go, oh my God, I'm here with Ernest Borgnine. He was in Marty. He was in all these different movies. And he said that Ernest Bogdine would stop when John Amos got that look in his face. And he goes, ah, he's eating popcorn again. That's great.

That's so great. Well, you answered the question. Jer Moran, one of our fans. I'm a gigantic admirer of Terry's. Everything he made is gold. But what was the inspiration for Bernie to be constantly eating oranges in Bad Santa? The actual inspiration for me taking that script to begin with was the dialogue was so specific and so funny. That line, you know, I think you know these. You worked with these guys, you told me, Frank. Glenn Ficarra, John Regwin and Glenn Ficarra wrote the script.

Yeah, I worked with Glenn and John on Angry Beavers, so let's give them a shout out. Yeah, the script was great. Yeah. What was the one you loved, Sweet Juice for Jesus? Sweet Juice for Jesus cracked me up. You know, the story detective discovers Santa destroying Santolin and sort of laments in the Southern accent, Sweet Juice for Jesus. You know, the store detective discovers Santa destroying Santolin and sort of laments in the southern accent, sweet cheese for Jesus. You know, there was a whole, do you remember that scene where they're trying to crack the safe? Yeah. And they're talking about this other guy who they met in prison.

He could get into anything. He could get into Margaret Thatcher's pussy. He's a safe cracker they're talking about. And it was especially funny. And then Tony says, and that's a good thing? It was especially funny because of that. Margaret Thatcher was famous for that Margaret Thatcher pussy blouse. Do you remember that?

It had this little tie that was called the pussy tie. Interesting. I wonder if Glenn and John were thinking of that. I just thought of something. And then Robert De Niro wound up doing that movie Bad Grandpa. That's right. Years later. There you go.

He could have been Bad Santa first. Yeah. When they presented you with those five names, when you told me that on the phone, I thought every one of these guys is a potential problem. Yeah, well, that's what you deal with with movie stars usually, but, you know. Well, on the subject of casting, does the Lee Ermey story connect to Bad Santa? Yes, it does. I know the Mickey Rooney one does.

Well, the script was originally written, every part in the script was for a Caucasian. So, like, Lois was originally white, Marcus's wife. I made her into this Filipino mail-order bride because my friend, a 78 collector, had just had the misfortune to order a Filipino mail order bride. And she was making his life hell because she was such a crazed consumer. Very funny, Lauren Tom, by the way. Yes, very funny. She's terrific.

And the first person I thought of off the top of my head for the Bernie Mac part was Tommy Lee Jones. And I thought, oh, this guy's a terrific actor. Another day at the beach. Another guy would be a lot of fun to work with. And why not add him to the crew? But, you know, for the sake of art, you got to sort of do it. So I said, send a script to Tommy Lee Jones. So his response to the script was, I ain't playing second fiddle to no midget.

That was it. So he wouldn't do it. And then the Weinstein said, well, who's next on your list? And I said, what about Charles Napier? And they said, Charles Napier? Are you out of your mind? And I said, okay, okay. I said, Arlie Ermey.

He'd be great. They said, who's he? I said, he was in Mississippi burning is the drill sergeant, full metal jacket. He's a really good actor and he's perfect for the part. He'll be so funny in this part. It is him. And they said,

he's not a big enough actor. We're not going to hire him. And, uh, I got to meet with him. Oh, he came to meet. I didn't ask him to read,

but at the time they hadn't said an official. No. So I did get to meet with him and He came to meet. I didn't ask him to read, but at the time they hadn't said an official no, so I did get to meet with him. And he did talk about the Cooper thing. I don't know, Gilbert, if you've ever seen the scene. Have you ever seen Mississippi Burning? The Alan Parker film? Gene Hackman. You've seen that, Gilbert. Yes.

Willem Dafoe. Gene Hackman. Gene Hackman. Yeah. There's a scene where I guess Arlie Ermey plays the sheriff in that film. And then also there's a scene in Seven. Have you seen David Fincher's Seven? Oh, it's a good movie.

He plays, he's in a scene, Arlie Ermey's in a scene, he's playing like a cop, like maybe like a lieutenant or something. He's in the office. And I read someplace where he picked up the phone much like you doing beverly hills cop one or two i forget which one oh and two and he and he ad lives this line that was just great he says something like this isn't even my desk and he slams the phone down because he said when they were shooting the phone kept ringing and he didn't know how else to you know he didn't want to do another take. So he thought, I'll just pick it up and say something and hang up, which was sort of genius to do.

But like when you did, say, Beverly Hills Cop, did they just let you add Lib or how did that come about? Yeah, every time Eddie and I did that scene, we did it differently. Well, like we were ignoring the script and each time we did it, like I wish they had a reel of all the different times we did it. And yeah, that I just ad-libbed the bitch part. So you hang up the same way he does. It must exist somewhere, that footage, Gil.

Yeah, it was. I remember Eddie and I laughing during that whole shoot. It was very funny. So you met with Ernie, and what happened? Well, you know, I loved him. I just told him, I think he'll be great. I'm trying to get the studio to hire you. We'll see what shakes out. It was pretty much it, and we had lunch. And what happened with Mickey Rooney? out was pretty much it and we had lunch okay and what happened what happened with mickey rooney oh well so the role uh it's already a good story the role that's a good story up to that point almost every role they get offered in a film is like okay you're a sight gag you're a midget we're

going to throw you across the room haha very funny and this part the guy was a real person. He had good dialogue. In fact, he was sort of the brains of the operation. Oh, you're talking about Tony Cox's role. Tony Cox. Well, I'm leading up to Mickey Rooney. I'm just saying everybody wanted that role. And so before Tony Cox had come in, well, actually, the first guy to come in was Peter Dinklage. And I didn't know who Peter Dinklage was. He had just done The Station Agent, which I hadn't seen. He wasn't on Game of Thrones yet. But the casting person, Mary Vernue, who was great, knew of him and said, I think you'll like this guy. And he came in and it was a very weird vibe in the office that day.

The women were all very attracted to him. He's a very handsome guy, but he's short. But that didn't phase him. They were really like, you could, they were giggling and flirting with him. It was weird. Anyway, he's a nice guy. And he read, and he seemed like he was like a, I think he was like a trained Shakespearean stage actor or something. He was really good. And I just thought, well, he's really good. Every every line is truthful but i wasn't laughing you know and so i thanked him and we continued searching the weinstein's wanted the guy from seinfeld who played uh oh yeah his name is one of them he played mickey mickey yeah what was his

really danny woodburn danny woodburn very good Thank God for you, Frank. That's a sickness. I don't know if this heckle and jekyll show of you guys would work without you coming in that kind of situation. But what was I saying? That Miramax wanted Danny Woodburn. They wanted him. He came in and read. He was good. I laughed.

And then Mickey Rooney comes in. This is all before Tony Cox. Mickey Rooney comes in. I go up to the cast and go, Mickey Rooney's here. I'm all excited. He's like 90 years old. He's like the number one movie box office star in the world at one point in his career, right? He comes in, shakes my hand. He hands me his headshot and his resume. It's like 330 films on his resume. I say, Mr. Rooney, please, you don't have to give me this. I know who you are. I'm a big fan. I thought you were so tremendous in Bill and Requiem for a Heavyweight.

Did you guys see that film, Requiem for a Heavyweight? Yes. Oh, yeah, sure. He's really good in that film. And, of course, you know, in Breakfast at Tiffany's, a part that Gilbert could play today. Gilbert. What was that guy's name? The Japanese guy? Oh, God.

Mr. Yamamori? Mr. Yamamori? Mr. Yoniyoshi or something like that. Yoniyoshi or something? Yeah, that sounds right. That was about the funniest thing I ever saw, but wouldn't hold up today, I don't think, to most people. And anyway, so he's in front of me, and I'm having this popcorn moment. There's Mickey Rooney, you know? And I'm like, Jesus Christ, I can't hire this guy.

The Weinsteins are never going to let me hire Mickey Rooney. Wait a minute. He had to be like 80 years old at this point. Yeah, he was pushing 90, I think. Wait a minute. He had to be like 80 years old at this point. He was pushing 90, I think. Oh, God. He was rather frail, but he had this sort of grotesque, over-the-top enthusiasm that had always fascinated me because I'm exactly the opposite. I'm always sort of sullen and depressed. And he was married to Ava Gardner. all i'm thinking of the whole time he says this guy's lips were on ava gardner's pussy this guy was fucking ava gardner he was fucking lana turner

and their friends he talks about in his autobiography he describes ava gardner's genitalia it's quite something and uh they and i think even in his book he admits like the only reason that that ava gardner married him he was married eight times the only reason she married him is because he was so persistent it was just easier to marry him than to just keep fighting it and he was that way with me like after he read he just kept saying sir i have the job do i have the job did i do good do you think i have a chance and he was like literally at one point like hanging on my pants leg, like saying this would really be a huge favor. And I just felt so bad. I'm thinking I got to figure a way to let the guy down easy, you know, because he was he was brilliant in parts in his audition. Some of the way he chose to read the lines and other parts were just way out there.

He was sort of in and out and too old. And I just told him he was too, he was too tall for the part. He was 3'6". The fact that he was 100 had nothing to do with it. I didn't want to tell him that. Right. I heard that Mickey Rooney, one time he was working on some show and what he would do to entertain the other people in the production was he would get on a payphone on the wall and he would fuck a chorus girl as he's talking to his wife. And that used to be a popular thing.

They'd go, hey, Mickey's doing it again. Let's go see. Oh, my God. If only I'd known. You know, his audition, whenever he got to a profanity, a swear word he refused to say, he would say blank. So he'd say, these lips are on your blankety blank blank. And I'd say, Mickey, you know, you got to say the words in the script. He said, oh, I will when we're filming.

He says, there's a lady here present in the room. I said, it's the casting director. She's fine. She said, oh, I will when we're filming. He says, there's a lady here present in the room. I said, it's the casting director. She's fine. She said, no, I'm fine with it. Say whatever you want to say, you know. You slipped around your wife's blank last night, you mother blank and blank. One time they interviewed Sammy Davis Jr.

And they said, how do you feel being the greatest entertainer in the world? And Sammy Davis said, no no i'm not mickey rooney is oh oh there you go there you go by the way billy barty gets a mention in bad santa so props to you for that terry i lost the part out to billy barty once we will return to gilbert godfrey's amazing colossal podcast but first a word from our sponsor we should really talk more about the uh the brett kelly being found to it's an interesting story yeah where is brett kelly now he's? He's 28 years old now. Yeah, well, he did Bad Santa 2, which was pretty awful. Which you wanted no part of for obvious reasons. No, I had hoped. My lawyer called very excited at one point saying, I think you're entitled to money for the sequel they're doing.

I said, great, how much? And then they checked and said, no, it just expired. You're just like a year too late. No, it just expired. You're just like a year too late. But the casting search for this kid was, let me read you first what leads up to this, because I had to write this down because it's a quote from John Glenn about the origin of the script of Bad Santa that leads to this. So here's a quote from them. They say, as far as facts go, I asked him, how did the film originate? How'd they come to write the film and how did the Coen brothers get involved?

Yeah. As far as facts go, Joel and Ethan had a newspaper clipping about a drunk mall Santa from the Midwest and they took us out to dinner and their entire pitch was, quote, he's a bad Santa, he drinks beer and stuff, unquote. That was it. So we ruminated for a while. We got together. We wrote this thing sort of a few weeks later and pitched this heist idea to them as a sort of homage to Donald Westlake novels, specifically Jimmy the Kid. And the Coens were concerned that we wrote in a real little person because there was not a deep talent pool and the same thing for the kid.

And I thought that was really smart because they anticipated that problem that I did not. They're like, yeah, it's really hard to find. Where are you going to find a good actor, you know, who's like five years old or eight years old, who looks like this kid? And they started searching and searching. And they just the Weinstein's wanted the kid from two and a Half Men, who was this cute little Disney kid. Angus Jones. Angus Jones. Yeah.

And I wanted a kid that looked like Joe Cobb from The Little Rascals, you know? Joe Cobb. There you go, Gino. It's a Joe Cobb reference. I told the casting director, no, get me Joe Cobb. And I had to show her a picture. Like, she didn't know Joe Cobb. And I said to show her a picture. Like, she didn't know Joe Cobb. And I said, I want a kid like it's written in the script.

So they opened the casting search to Canada. They finally found this kid. He'd only done one commercial. And I said, if this, and they showed me his headshot. And I fell on the ground laughing. I said, if this kid can walk and talk at the same time, he's tired. So the Weinsteins insist on him auditioning. They flew him down from canada with his mother his mother i think chose the clothes he wore which are the

clothes you see him in throughout the entire film that same too tight t-shirt and shorts that he showed up to audition and i told him do not lose that those clothes put them away now until shooting we're going to use those and uh and he was great and uh yeah he is he was the i think but the only well billy helped a lot with him to be fair to billy and billy stood up for me in fact when the winesheds didn't want to hire the kid they thought it was just nah we should stick with these cute little beverly hills acting class disney kids and i said, I want a real kid. That was the genius of Hal Roach, you know. And they just eventually came down to Billy was going to have to read with like three kids.

And one of them could be Brett Kelly. And then we'd have two other kids of their choice. And so he was very helpful to Brett and really helped him through. And it was on my side to push for that actor to get the job. The kid's good. Was Disney? It got to the point where I had to threaten to quit before they eventually did hire him. I had to threaten to quit to get Tony Cox hired as well.

Gilbert's a Tony Cox fan. Oh, Tony's the greatest. I talk to him every month. We call each other. Yeah. He's kept in touch and that kid it's like it would have been ruined if it was like you know a cute hollywood uh child actor absolutely many came in and auditioned for it and it was just like yeah the script is so inspired let's not ruin it guys and and they just had um a bad santa 2 on a couple of days ago oddly enough

right and i think i sat through like 10 minutes of it yeah not too good yeah yeah let's make clear too terry that you're not a fan of the of the original theatrical cut so that our listeners should watch the director's cut. Well, at this point, the theatrical cut and the director's cut are that much different. They're about 90% the same, but it's like somebody puts like 10% urine in your drink and says, there, enjoy your lemonade, you know. But the way that came about was when the film came out, the test scores were on the low side, to put it mildly, because a lot of people just get offended. You know, Santa's drinking. He's smoking a cigarette. First scene, they're out of the movie, you know, because they were tested in places like Texas to little blue-haired old ladies.

Sure. They'd be offended for some sort of weird religious reasons, like the Easter bunny is a religious object. I don't know. Well, basically, the film didn't test so great and they want to get the numbers up. And so they basically would just say, look, every comment the audience makes a test card, say, which were in agreement in one area, which was basically, we're uncomfortable with Santa being so mean to the little kid. Can he be nicer to him and earlier in the film than at the end? And I said, it doesn't make sense. You know, he doesn't, he doesn't not mean to him. He just doesn't care about him until he gives him that wooden pickle. And then, you know, that's sort of from that point on, he starts to have feelings for the kid. They said, well, we're going to write these. We need to add like a scene for every card that the audience, every comment the audience has, we're going to write these. We need to add like a scene for every card that the audience, every comment the audience has, we're going to write a scene and shoot it and

drop it in and see how it tests. And I think, oh, Jesus Christ, what a nightmare. So I said, well, you know, I'm not writing it. It doesn't make any sense to me to have Santa teaching him karate one day, you know, like he wouldn't care about the kids. This just doesn't make any sense at all. Or checking on him at night to see if he's sleeping okay and just wouldn't care. So I mean, I could write him, but I have final cut of the film and I'm going to save you money. They're going to wind up on the editing room floor. So don't spend $10 million adding all these scenes that I'm not going to put in the film. I have final cut of the film. Well, I was to find out that you can't enforce your final cut unless you hire these outside litigators at $35,000 a day.

So they just fired my editor, shot these scenes based on Bob and Harvey's ideas, hired some hack writer to write them. The Coen brothers wouldn't write them. John and Glenn wouldn't write the scene. To their credit. And to their credit. And they were awful for the most part they they they got me to shoot two of them that i didn't think harmed the film and they were in response to the audience saying we want more bernie mack in the film and

so i wrote a couple revisions of those scenes to make them a little bit better and shot those but a lot of the scenes just they tested and they took out on their own it just didn't work i thought the thing that that deflated me the most was really when they put in they took out that music i had picked for the film the chopin at the beginning it's very beautiful melancholy music because they said the audience doesn't even know this is a comedy i said well, well, they'll figure it out. Give them a minute. You know, this music's all wrong. And they put in Elvin and the Chimp Monks doing Jingle Bell Rock instead. At that point, I just said, I quit.

I'm going home. And I did. I went home, packed up. And they tested their version of the film. It tested so badly, like this weird Frankenstein monster, they enticed me back and said, come back to the editing room. We'll hire your editor. and you get an understanding. And I spent the next year like trying to save face with them of getting rid of their scenes and trying to get it back

to where it was, which was basically the original script. But, you know, like I say, there's about 10% left of residue in their version that still makes me sort of cringe, but. But you were vindicated, really. Sort of vindicated really vindicated ultimately gilbert got a kick out of this one of your uh one of the projects you were approached to do was a sequel to the last detail a movie that we talk about on this show that's right through i think randy quaid's crazy wife really he sent in a he sent an audition on tape to me somehow at my home address randy quaid, where he auditioned for Bad Santa completely naked.

And I think it's his wife, Evie Quaid, filming it. And he's drunk. I mean, really drunk. And it's just, I still have it somewhere. I still have the Mickey Rooney audition song. Oh, my God. We got to get our hands on that. Let's thank our mutual pal, Drew Friedman, for introducing us to Terry.

And I've been a fan for a long time of both Crumb and Ghost World and Bad Santa. Drew's a great genius, too. A twisted genius. One of the few comic book guys that I used to follow. What's your favorite Drew strip there, Gilbert? God, I don't know. I remember when I met him, we were both like

used to do stuff for National Lampoon. And I remember calling him Jew Dots. And he still does. He doesn't do the pointillism anymore. He was shaded by doing like millions of dots.

That's right. Yeah, no, his is weird. The strangest... Well, I regaled Terry with the stories of you showing up at his doorway at one o'clock in the morning demanding to see Robot Monster or the Beast from Yucca

Flats. And why? Because you had no TV at home of your own? Well, I didn't have, I don't think I had a VCR and we'd sit together watching the worst like horror movies that both of us, you know, Indestructible man and all of those that were always fun. Yeah, Drew would fall asleep. He'd be on deadline. He'd fall asleep over his drawing board,

wake up at four o'clock in the morning and Gilbert was still on the couch in his parka. My favorite, my favorite, Drew, I have to mention, I know you love old Bud Abbott. I love William Bendix sightings in the first book and the game show hosts walk among us and guilty pleasures ofary Greats, which he did with Kathy, his wife. The stories, you know, when Kathy showed up in Drew's life, she said, I think she read the riot act. I think she said, Gilbert's got to go.

She'll hear this and I hope i'm not misspeaking uh let's plug these wonderful uh dvds that you were kind enough to send me oh terry before you do that i just want to know during the making of ghost world did scarlett johansson ever say anything about wanting to fuck me? Or her robot. I have to say, in all honesty, no. But I will say that after I completely made her career and started her on her rocket path to stardom, does she ever pick up a phone or drop by the house and let me throw, like, orange wed her ass for instance all i've done for that little brat at least she could do didn't you you told me you reached out to her when you heard when you saw the scarlett johansson robot i did i sent her a link to it

i never heard back from her and could the inventor please send me that robot she's great in the film and thanks for mentioning Don Knotts in Ghost World 2 he's the greatest there's so many wonderful we didn't even get into working with Balaban and Steve and Illyann another time we have you back see if I'm still alive

in another year I'm going to read you this, too. Gregory Ward says, I don't have a question for Terry, but I have to say that Crumb is in my top five films of all time. The Criterion Blu-ray is a must-have. I watch it several times a year. Thank you, thank you, thank you. So there you go.

You've got a lot of fans. These, by the way, these are great, these Criterion editions of Louis Blu-ray, which is talk about a valentine and a labor of love, like this show. We'll tell the story the next time you're back, and the Crumb movie. Can I ask Gilbert really quick about

his own artwork? On the inside cover of your book, Rubber Balls and Liquor? Yes. It looks a little bit like one of the Crumb brothers there. What was your, like, were you a fan of, like, Basil Wolverton? It's a little bit like uh one of the crumb brothers there what was your like were you a fan of like basil wolverton it's a little wolverton a little bit a little bit rory hayes yeah i'm sure i was influenced by a lot of those guys you read that stuff those underground comics too yeah did you know crumb was no i never met crumb did you ever read his Zap Comics or anything in the 60s?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I used to draw a lot. It was, oh, very perverted stuff. Oh. And is that available anywhere to see? No, I never did any exhibit. In the book, there is some of my drawings.

In a little bit, yeah. Did you catch the three-breasted woman, Terry, and it says Molary and Curly? Sure. Of course, yeah. How could you miss that? That says it all, Gilbert. That really sums you up.

Yeah. Perverted sexual things and the three stooges. That's a nutshell. We got a Joe Cobb story, too, that we'll tell you off mic, Terry. But I want our listeners to— No time for Lawrence Turney. Tell it, quick. Can't be told quick.

It'll ruin it. Next time. Next time. Save something. Get Louie Bluey, guys. It's a real Valentine Next time. Next time. Save something. Get Louie Bluey, guys. It's a real Valentine to Terry's favorite music. That guy turned out to be

a wonderful character, by the way. Howard Armstrong. And the Crumb documentary, which is wonderful. And if you haven't seen Ghost World, what are you waiting for? 20 years old. Happy anniversary to Ghost World. Thank you. Gilbert, what else do you have for this man? Oh, God. Terry's off mic. Terry's going to give you he's going to make his

offer. He's got a part for you. Right. I don't have financing yet, Gilbert. That's the downside. There's no financing. Thank you, Drew. I have hopes your podcast is going to catch on and you guys are going to be billionaires and finance it yourself. Is that going to happen? Probably not. Thank you for the nice words, though. I would like for this Ghost World review to go viral. It might now. It's the greatest thing I've ever read.

I knew you'd like it. Somehow when I saw that, it had Gilbert's name all over it. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And we have been talking to a man who jerked off to the Wicked Witch of the West in Wizard of Oz, Terry Zweigoff.

We'll leave the audience wondering about that one. Thank you, Terry. Thank you, guys. Merry Christmas to the man who made Bad Santa. Thank you, guys. It was a blast. We'll do it again. Dashing through the snow in the one horse open sleigh and over the hills we went. Dashing through the snow in the one-horse open sleigh.

And over the hills we went. Yeah, we were laughing all the way. Bells on Bob Hill ring. They were making spirits bright. What fun it is to ride and sing a sleighing song tonight. Hey! Jingle bells, jingle bells, hey, jingle all the way. Oh, what fun it is to ride in a one-horse open sleigh.

Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way. Oh, what fun it is to ride in a one-horse open sleigh. Now, bundle right up in there. Hop on. Get up there. Ha, ha, ho. Are you warm? Are you warm, dear?

That's right. Look at that countryside over there, huh? Look at the beautiful snow. My, it looks like a's right. Look at that countryside over there, huh? Look at the beautiful snow. Looks like a beautiful painting, don't it, over there, huh? Listen, could you bring along a little of that Christmas eggnog, dear? I will. I'll have a little of it there. Keep on going there. That's right.

Let me look at what I'm doing. You just look at the road, see? Now just... Here we go. We were dashing through the snow, you see, in this one horse open sleigh. And over the hills we went. Well, you see, the horse just didn't know the way, that's all.

And you see, the bells on the bobtail, they were all ringing, and I was trying to get you to singing, and she was giving me the eggnog. Well, you know, I didn't even know what I was doing after a while. She was warm. She put the blanket up over me, and I just said, well, you know, honey, where are we? I said, where are we? The horse didn't answer me.

He went right on. He went right on. He was just, and the horse started singing jingle bells. Gosh, it was wild. Wild. And then the horse went, jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way. Oh, what fun it is to ride in one horse open sleigh. I said, what is that, the horse singing?

Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle, jingle all the way. I said, here, fella, let me pull the sleigh. You get in the sled.