Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Tim Robbins Encore

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

GGACP marks the 30th anniversary of 1994's "The Hudsucker Proxy" (released March 11,1994) with this ENCORE presentation of a 2020 interview with Oscar-winning actor, director and musician Tim Robbins. In this episode, Tim talks about the "New Hollywood" of the '70s, the genius and generosity of Robert Altman, the timeliness of Depression-era screwball comedies and the enduring appeal of "The Shawshank Redemption." Also, Gore Vidal steals the show, Richard Pryor plays The Gaslight Cafe, Orson Welles locks horns with William Randolph Hearst and Tim (fondly) remembers Paul Newman, Don Rickles and Robin Williams. PLUS: "Cradle Will Rock"! "Howard the Duck"! Monty Python comes calling! And Tim weighs in on the future of movie theaters! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, Frank here to tell you that we are taking a bit more time for ourselves since it's spring break. We will be back with new shows very soon. And we're running another Encore episode or Best of GGACP if you prefer. With what I think is an underrated episode from 2020 with actor-director Tim Robbins, Oscar winner Tim Robbins, to coincide with the 30th anniversary of The Player, which was released this month in 1992. A movie Gil and I both admire. Tim was a very enthusiastic participant in this show, as you'll hear, and he was game for anything. We talked about the player, yes, and some Shawshank, of course,

but also about, I guess, lesser appreciated films like The Hudsucker Proxy, which I love personally, and two little-known films that I have sung the praises of on this show, I have sung the praises of on this show, the terrific Five Corners, John Patrick Shanley script, and the wonderful political satire which Tim directed called Bob Roberts. So see if you can find those two gems. We talked about working with Robert Altman and Paul Newman and Monty Python's Terry Jones. He's a big Python fan. And he even let us tease him a bit about Howard the Duck. As I said, he was a playful, willing guest. So thanks to our pals at Starburns, Brian Baldinger and Lan Romo,

and the late, great Jason Smith, for helping with this one. And we will see you next week with new shows. In the meantime, happy Easter, happy Pesach, and enjoy this 2020 interview with the very entertaining and enthusiastic Tim Robbins. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. Our guest this week is a producer, activist, theater director, musician, playwright, screenwriter, Oscar-nominated film director, Oscar-winning actor, and one of the most versatile and admired artists of his generation.

versatile and admired artist of his generation. You've seen him on TV shows like The Simpsons, Saturday Night Live, The Brink, and Castle Rock. And in films like The Hudsucker Proxy, Tape Heads, Shortcuts, Jacob's Ladder, High Fidelity, Mystic River, War of the Worlds, Dark Waters, and one of the most beloved motion features ever put on celluloid, The Shawshank Redemption. He's also written and directed the critically acclaimed films like Bob Roberts, Dead Man Walking, Cradle Will Rock, and the recent documentary 45 Seconds of Laughter, and has worked with an impressive list of legends and icons, including Clint Eastwood, Steven Spielberg, Walter Matthau,

Bruce Springsteen, Martin Scorsese, Paul Newman, and his friend and occasional mentor, Robert Altman. He's also one of the founders and artistic director of the Actors Gang, an experimental theater and non-profit group that's produced and continues to produce hundreds of plays all over the world and has spawned the Prison Project, a nationally recognized inmate rehabilitation program currently running in over a dozen California prisons. His newest project is the hilarious and satirical podcast Bobo Supreme, co-starring talents such as Jack Black and our friend Patton Oswalt, and currently available on the Patreon platform. And I have such admiration and respect for this man that we decided to wait at least 20 minutes into the interview to ask him about Howard the Duck. who says he's still emotionally scarred from the time a priest took him to see deliverance when he was 10 years old.

The multi-talented Tim Robbins. Thanks. That's the best introduction I've ever gotten. Thank you. We'll cut it together so it makes sense, Tim. Okay. Thanks for finding time for us. Now, I agree to be patient

asking you about Howard the Duck, but I can't wait on the first one. Oh, man. I was, I don't know. When did Deliverance come out? 72 or something? Oh, yeah, I think 72. Yeah, I was 12, 13 years old.

And, no, it must have been 12, because I was still an altar boy. I was still in grade school. And, yeah, he took us on a little field trip, a bunch of altar boys to Times Square to see Deliverance. And I just, you know, at the time, it was weird. First of all, it was an R-rated movie. And second of all, you know, square like a pig. Right, exactly. Whatever. Maybe he thought the title, maybe he read some kind of intellectual, some kind of, you know, literature at the time that was saying that there was a religious theme to this and the movie. I don't know. Or maybe he was just an out-and-out perv, but who knows? Not exactly emotionally scarred by it, but I would say that I look back at it with confusion.

Yeah, well, the scene of Ned Beatty getting ass-fucked by hillbillies would be scarring for anybody. Oh, my God. Yeah. The title is deceptive to a man of the God. Yeah. But the title is deceptive for it to a man of the cloth. Yeah. I've mentioned it before. And I wonder where that priest is now. Now, you were born into a showbiz family. Yes, my father was a musician. He was in a folk group called the Highwaymen, who had a lot of success in the early 60s. He made five albums with them. And then after that, he was an actor in musical theater.

And then he became a composer of 20th century choral music and had his own group in New York City for a while. Gil Robbins, also in the Belafonte Singers. That's right. That's right. And many years later, I met Harry Belafonte and talked to him about that. And my mother was a musician as well. They met, by the way, in the UCLA marching band.

My mother played the flute and dad was the drum major, the guy with the funny hat and twirled the baton and led the band. And what got you interested in becoming an actor? Probably seeing my father on stage. You know, that was a pretty magical thing. that was a pretty magical thing. First, as a musical performer, he used to do this section of the concert called Shaggy Dog Stories. And it was a very funny section. And he'd sing these silly songs and the audience would laugh. And I remember as a kid, seeing my dad up there making people laugh. And that was pretty intoxicating. You know, when you see that that's a possibility to do in your life, most families, you know, you know, you say you want to be an actor and they

say, Oh God, no, you know, that's the end. You need to, you know, what are you going to do to make a living? With my family, it was always a possibility. There was a big respect for culture and music and art. And, and so, you know, as much as I wanted to jump in right away. There was a big respect for culture and music and art. And so, you know, as much as I wanted to jump in right away when I was young, my father, I wanted to go to performing arts high school in Manhattan and my father wouldn't let me. He said, you need to get an education first before you decide what you want to do in your life. And he was right. I hated him at the time for it, but he was right. Didn't he say there's nothing worse than an uneducated actor?

Yeah. He said there's nothing worse than having a conversation with an uneducated actor. Because he had had some at that point. I would imagine. Yeah. But he was around to see so much of your success. Yes, he was. And he passed about seven years ago.

He and my mom passed 12 days apart. I read that. Yeah, one of those beautiful passings. My mom wasn't particularly ill at the time, but the night before she passed, we had hired a nurse to be with her. And she said, he's here. And the nurse said, no, he's not. And she said, he most certainly is. And he looks very strong.

And she went to bed that night and joined him. Oh, wow. It was quite beautiful. Wow. Yeah. That is beautiful. Oh, wow. It was quite beautiful.

Wow. Yeah. That is beautiful. She had had a dream two nights before that when my sisters were still there, where she said that she, you know, because she had been agitated the night before. She woke up in the morning. She says, don't worry. Everything's going to be fine. And my sister said, well, what's up? And she said, well, you know, last night I had this dream.

And I was in my childhood home in Westwood, California, and coming down the street were friends of mine, led by my oldest friend. And it was weird because they were from all different parts of my life. There was my friends when I was a kid and there was my friends from York and there was my friends from the choral society. And it was my friends from York. And there was my friends from the Choral Society. And it was strange. But they really calmed me. And I think everything's going to be fine. And what we realized was it was all the souls that had passed that were coming to tell her, don't worry.

Wow. There were a lot of incredibly magical moments around that whole thing. How many years were they married to? 52 years. 52. So the bond was so strong that. Oh, yeah. They didn't want to be without each other. Yeah.

I was reading about your dad, and I was reading about roulette records. He was on the infamous roulette records with Morris Levy Gilbert, who we learned all about when they were the Cumberland Three. But I was thinking, reading about your dad, and I was thinking, he worked with Tom Paxton and all these great folkies, and I was thinking he must have been a fan of Christopher Guest's A Mighty Wind. That must have rung true for him. Oh yeah, and Waiting for Guffman. Just the world he inhabited. One of the greatest. You know, he told me a story when he was ill. I went down to his house and I filmed him and I interviewed him. And he told me this amazing story. He said, you know, when he was a young man, he'd had four kids pretty quick. And he was working as a music teacher in Pomona,

pretty quick and uh he was working as a a music teacher in pomona california and they started a little folk group and they started doing gigs and um they they you know went up to the san francisco to the hungry eye and they did the los angeles folk scene but he was a little restless and he was living in pomona and uh so he took a trip to new york city to it out, to check out the folk scene there. And this was like 1960. And he said he was, he told me there was this one evening that he remembered very clearly. And here he was, this, you know, no one knew who he was. He hadn't proven himself yet. But Ronnie Gilbert, who was in a group called the Weavers, befriended him. And she invited him to this concert that was happening. It was a living wake for a man named Cisco Houston, who was a very good friend of Woody Guthrie's and had served in the Navy with him.

And he was dying, but all of his friends wanted to give him a send-off. They wanted him in the room so that they could sing to him. And it was, he said, and this is one of the only times I saw him cry, he was saying how much it meant to him to be included in that company, to be invited into that. And I often think about that because that led to him moving the family to New York City, that led to him having a career in folk music. And I often think about that one moment of kindness that Ronnie Gilbert shared with my father that led to everything in my life. And I often, you know, when I see people that are new,

that are interested in this whole wild ride we're on. I often give respect to that moment and try to treat people in that way. Of course. That was a turning point. Yeah. Yeah. What stories have you heard about Morris Levy? He sounded like a fascinating.

Do you know what you think about him? Not much. No. We had the singer Tommy James here on the show. Doing deep research about your dad, the Cumberland Three were on Roulette Records, and it was owned by Morris Levy. I urge you to read up on him. Okay.

He was a gangster. As a lot of people in the music industry were at the time. Tommy wrote a great book about his life, People in the music industry were at the time. Tommy wrote a great book about his life, basically trying to get out of servitude to the mob and to that record label. I'm sure your dad must have had some tales to tell as well. Well, yeah, he shared a couple with me. He actually helped run the Gaslight on McDougal street for a while. And, uh, with, uh, with a guy named Sam hood. Uh, and there, yeah, there was a, there was a presence there, you know,

that was an interesting environment. Yeah. Um, but there was a, they were in every business. I mean, in, in my neighborhood, um, I grew up, you know, on the, on the, uh, edge of little Italy and Greenwich village. And, um, you know, on the, on the edge of little Italy and Greenwich village. And, you know, if you, if you wanted your garbage collected, if you want, you know, anything, you know, you had to, you had to give a little donation to the local Don. I'm not sure it's changed all that much. Probably not.

We had a guy that lived across the street from us named happy. I'm not sure it's changed all that much. Probably not. We had a guy that lived across the street from us named Happy. Happy was the local Don. I see. And Happy had these two roly-poly kids that had private school uniforms on all the time. And, you know, it was, they were like, if you were living in, you know, a street kid at the time, they were like, that's an obvious target for kind of like, hey, let's pick on them. But no one messed with Happy's kids.

No one. You just knew, do not mess with Happy's kids. There will be a price to pay. Did Alan Arkin cross paths with your dad? Because he was a folky. He was in the Terriers. I think he did. And I actually crossed paths with Alan Arkin cross paths with your dad? Because he was a folky. He was in the Terriers. I think he did.

And I actually crossed paths with Alan Arkin. Yeah. He must have known your dad. I almost did a movie with him. It was really interesting because it was right before the player, actually. And Robert Altman had told me he wanted me to do the player. And it wasn't coming together. The it wasn't coming together the money wasn't coming together and i was broke and i had uh you know just had my first kid and i you know i needed

to work and so there was this movie i wanted the name of it but there was this movie it was a comedy and it was you know it wasn't that good but it was like a million dollars to do it. Right. And I and so me and Alan Arkin are flying out to L.A. from New York in the same plane. And I'm sitting next to him and he is also going out for the same reason to, you know, to meet with these people. And he goes to me, he says, why the fuck do you want to do this movie? why the fuck do you want to do this movie? And I was like, well, you know, I'm kind of, he says this, it's not funny. It's not funny. And I said, I know, I know, I know.

He said, you shouldn't do it. And I was so grateful for that because it gave me the strength to say no. And the player came together a month later. The rest is history. And what was the movie? Do you remember? Yeah, I don't like the trash old kind of, you know, things. We'll make our listeners work for it.

Who else did you see in the club? I know you hung out there. Even though you were underage, you spent time in the gaslight. Yes, I did. But you know, it was, it was not, it didn't sell, they didn't serve alcohol there. Oh, okay. So it was, you know, it wasn't illegal for me to be there. I saw Livingston Taylor. I saw Cat Stevens. Wow. I saw Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee. I saw Eric Anderson. I saw John Hammond. I saw some really cool blues artists. Because everybody played. I mean, Hendrix played that room.

Yeah, everybody played. Alan Ginsberg at one point. And then there was this comedian named Uncle Dirty that played. Yes! Yes! Yes! You know that guy, right? Yes. Robert Altman, I think, was also his name. Really? Bob Altman?

Yeah, Bob Altman was Uncle Dirty. Yeah, I knew Uncle Dirty. Me and my sister thought he was the funniest thing on earth, right? And yeah, and then I snuck in one night for, the gas light moved to Bleeker Street. It was called the And then I snuck in one night. The Gaslight moved to Bleecker Street.

It was called the Gaslight Agogo. And my dad was helping run that place. And I snuck in and saw Richard Pryor one night. And my father caught me and threw me out. He was like, nope, nope, nope. You know, I'm an altar boy. You know, I'm watching Richard Pryor when I'm like 11 years old or something. I thought it was so funny.

I loved him. I remember Uncle Dirty used to hang out at the Improv in New York. Yeah. I think his name was Bob Old the Improv in New York. Yeah. I think his name was Bob Oldman. I never was there. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds right. That sounds right.

You know, we jump around like crazy, Tim, but since you're bringing up iconic comedians, just tell us a little bit about your encounters with Rickles, who's somebody we love to talk about on this show. Oh, wow. He was so funny. I ran into him at an Oscar party at Danny Jansen's place and got to know him a little bit after that. Yeah, I just loved him. You know, it's the kind of person that, you know, you've watched your entire life, you've laughed so many times,

and then he becomes that in front of you, you've watched your entire life. You you've laughed so many times. And then he, he, he becomes that in front of you, but he's, and you realize he's giving you this beautiful gift of like, he's going to rib you. He's going to like bust your chops for free. You know, it's all just personal. It's just like, just you and him. He's not not it's not for an audience he's just gonna bust your chops right there i felt so honored i felt like i just entered into a new club or something just you know the personal duration of don rickles and yet everybody we talked to that knew him or that was you know we just had Bob Costas here a couple of weeks ago and he got to know Rickles.

I mean, everybody says there was, of course, he was facetiously called Mr. Warmth, but everybody said there was a genuine warmth and likability with the guy. For sure. I loved him. I loved him. Yeah. yeah and i you know that um old hollywood um i ran into quite a few of those people as i was coming up and another person i i loved was jerry weintraub uh you know he oh legend you know he was just just the best guy you know um and uh you know it was so sad when he died, you know, he, he produced the brink this HBO show I did. And he,

he had he was very it was incredible at telling stories about his life, but never from braggadocio was always like telling the story about how he told frank sinatra that before he did his madison square garden concert he says you can't do seven ballads in a row it's never gonna work frank seven ballads in a row and he says you know what tell me it it was the highlight of the concert. Wow. We feel we missed out by not having Jerry Weintraub on this show because we love the old showbiz stories, and he was just a great raconteur.

A lovely guy. A lovely guy. And I got to know him very well. And, you know, I think the last time I talked to him, it was, you know, he was just, you know, he was in a funk. And for some reason he called me and just, you know, I think the last time I talked to him, it was, you know, he was just, you know, he was in a funk. And for some reason, he called me and just, you know, tried to make him laugh a few times. I like the brink, by the way. I read something that after Jerry's passing, that had something to do with HBO not bringing it back.

I think it did. Yeah, which is unfortunate. It was a very good show. Yeah, we were about to do Russia. Yeah, it would have been great. Smart show. It would have been awesome. People can find it did. Yeah, which is unfortunate. It was a very good show. Yeah, we were about to do Russia. Yeah, it would have been great. Smart show. It would have been awesome. People can find it still.

Our friend Michael Lehman directed a bunch of them as well. And you worked with someone whose name has popped up on this show a number of times, and that's Lou Jacoby. Oh, all those great character actors you worked with on IQ. And Walter Mudd, the same movie. Gene Sachs. I love Walter, I love Lou. You know, when I was, before I started working as an actor, one of the jobs I

had was I was a waiter at the Hillcrest Country Club. Oh, wow. I had was I was a waiter at the Hillcrest Country Club. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. So I had encountered all these people I used to see on the Johnny Carson show, you know, the Tonight Show, and served like Steve Lawrence and Stephen Eadie, Eadie Gourmet. Eadie Gourmet, yeah. And I think Rickles was in there a few times, and I reminded him of that when I met him.

And, you know, George Burns was a regular almost every day. And so I had encountered this kind of the old classic showbiz guys who I have great admiration for. You know, they kind of laid the groundwork for comedy. And as much as I had at the time, cause I was a punk rocker at the time, as much as I had like a certain contempt for the new Hollywood and the kind of stupid sitcoms and shit,

those guys, I just, I just had such respect for the, you know, the, the, the ones that were in the trenches that, that made the American comedy, you know, that created this great, great future for all of us. And yeah, I never got to meet Carson. I would have never met Carson. Did you meet Groucho or Jack Benny? I think

Groucho. When did Groucho die? 77. I don't know. I seem to have a memory of one. I think it was that I wasn't there and he was there or something that he had been in. Because I was a huge fan of his and the Marx Brothers. Yeah. Oh, we like you even more now, Tim. Yeah. Here I am, like, you know, this kid just out of UCLA, and I'm seeing all these legends and wondering whether they want brisket or the fish.

Do you want the fish or the brisket? Oh, you also worked with Robin Williams. I loved him. I loved him. He was a good friend. I'm so sad about that still. I'm sad and pissed off. I was blessed to have him in my life.

And in all of his beautiful, chaotic genius, to be able to share moments with him and, you know, being, you know, our families went on vacation a couple of times together. And when I first worked with him, I had just had my first son, Jack, and it was Cadillac man. And I remember being super nervous because, you know, the first day of shooting, you know, you know, Robin, he's you know, there's the script and then there's Robin. So Robin started improvising and I just started going along with him. Right. And I, it was, it was so, it was such a breakthrough for me because, you know, at that point, I pretty much stayed to the script and, you know, young actor, I'm not gonna,

I would make suggestions about certain lines and everything, but I wouldn't go completely into left field. And Robin just opened the door and he said, go, go there. Come with me. Jump on the train. We're going to, you know, take this into some weird fucking place. And, and, and I went along for the ride and I was so, so happy to know that I could do it. You know, it was, that was like a, it was like a huge gift from him to, you know, to,

to be able to invite me along on that improvisational journey. And God, you know, I know you knew him too, Gilbert. And what a, you know, what a loss that was, man. That was just, just a miss him, Miss him a lot. Yeah. I mean, a few times he would come into the clubs, drop in the clubs a lot. And a couple of times he would he invited me when he was on stage. He'd invite me to come up and just play.

And always it was like exhausting and exhilarating at the same time yeah yeah i mean i guess one of the you know to be able to make robin williams laugh that that was a great joy oh man and and also you worked uh with paul newman did. I did. You're just going to make me cry. Is that what this is about? A dream come true. You called that. It was a dream come true.

And, you know, he was one of my heroes growing up, you know. Not only was he a great actor, but also a committed individual that was unafraid of expressing his opinion and standing on the side of marginalized people. And, you know, and starting that Newman's own, that was purely for the, every profit, every dollar profit went to charities. And he was just a beautiful man. So was his wife, Joanne Woodward. And,

and, you know, I, uh, I was doing a movie called hot sucker proxy with him. And it was, we were, uh, going after work one day said, yeah, let's go get a six pack. And, um, I got in the car with him and man and man, oh, man, he was nuts behind the wheel. I mean, he drove so fast. I'm sitting shotgun, and I'm thinking, okay, well, not a bad way to die, you know, with Paul Newman. That would be all right. You might get second billing in the story, though. That's true. Might have gotten second billing, but I would have taken it for Paul.

Of course. He had that wild glint in his eye, that mischievous kind of like, I'm going to, you know, let's fuck shit up kind of thing. Very young in a lot of ways uh in his spirit and um he uh he supported my theater company the actors gang with generous donations every year came to see my play embedded in at the public theater in new york and took us out to dinner afterwards and just was a you know Took us out to dinner afterwards and just was a real good man. He did so much for so many people and used his celebrity, as you said, to better people's lives. But he was also a mischievous person.

He was very famous for his practical jokes. Altman told me about a couple of his practical jokes. And I think it was Buffalo belly that together. Oh yeah. Yeah. Then, you know, he would always pull things on Redford.

You know, that was, that was the, you know, always find a way like that, fill up his trailer, his movie trailer, you know,

that he was his motor home with uh i forgot what it was popcorn maybe and you know so that he opened his door in this like ton of popcorn i forgot what exactly he filled it up with but he was always doing stuff like that which is you know this kind of like mischievous elf he didn't he had that look in his eyes all the time. He's like, he wanted to have fun. He wanted to, you know, in his own way, create a nice environment for people to work in. We will

return to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast after this. And you did an episode of The Love Boat. I did. Yeah. Yes. 1984. and you did an episode of the love boat i did yeah yes 1984 i was on the love boat in a flashback flashback i was i was the young george kennedy oh and uh wow the woman I was working with was the young Cloris Leachman.

And they were recalling, they were on this romantic adventure in Copenhagen. And there was a flashback to Nazi-occupied Copenhagen. And I played a young resistance fighter. Listen, I got letters here from people who remember you on that show, Tim. Well, thank goodness. And we had

on this podcast, we've had both Gavin McLeod and Bernie Capel. Yeah, we've had both Gavin McLeod and Bernie Capel. Yeah, we've covered the love boat. I also work with Herve Villachez, by the way. Oh, you buried the lady. Saving the best for last. Come tell us.

I think it was in Tape Heads. I think he was in Tape Heads. I think it was in tape heads. I think he was in tape heads. I think he is. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a collection of photos of me and all these people. A couple other things about Hudsucker. I mean, that is a movie.

You're also, like us, a movie buff. And I've heard you talking about the glory days of the 70s when the inmates were running the asylum. The Hutt Sucker Proxy is a movie for people who love movies. It's pure cinema. There's so much to admire about it. I think it might be one of the Coen Brothers' best movies. I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. I think it's a gem to discover. Anyone that hasn't seen it out there in podcast land, check it out. It's a delightful movie.

Well, the Hindus say, and the beatniks also, that in our next lives, some of us will come back as ants. Some will be butterflies. Others will be elephants or creatures of the sea. What a beautiful thought. Say, what do you think you were in a previous life, Amy? Oh, I don't know. Maybe I was just a fast-talking career gal who thought she was one of the boys.

Oh, no, Amy. Pardon me for saying so, but I find that very far-fetched. No, there really is something I have to tell you. That kind of person would come back as a wildebeest or a warthog. No, I find it more likely that you were a gazelle with long, graceful legs gambling through the underbrush. Perhaps we met once, a chance encounter in a forest glade. I must have been an antelope or an ibex. What times we must have had foraging together for sustenance. Snorkeling water from a mountain stream. Picking the grubs and burrs from one another's coats. Or perhaps we simply touched horns briefly in one or separate ways. Oh, wish it were that simple, Norvell. Or perhaps we simply touched horns briefly in one or separate ways.

Oh, wish it were that simple, Norville. I wish I was still a gazelle and you were an antelope. And it's fun to watch you doing physical comedy, to watch you doing slapstick. Oh, it's so goofy. As well. That guy is such a rube. Norville Barnes. How did you like Durning?

Another actor we love. Loved him. Loved him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was a really interesting shoot.

It was in North Carolina. And we were shooting next to The Crow in the same studio. And, you know, it's such a tragedy what happened to that kid, Brandon Lee. Oh, yeah. It was, you know, there was, they were working it too hard man they were they were working long long hours and shit there was already a lot of accidents on the set and i remember there was a you know just like jesus what else can go wrong kind of thing and then that happened it was it was it was so awful um but the you know the experience of making the movie was just

a great time, other than the fact that that happened late in the shoot. But for the most of the shoot, it was quite great. Jennifer Jason Leigh and Paul Newman. Great performances. Amazing performances. I'm a huge fan of screwball comedies from the 30s and 40s. You know, that quick-paced, smart-talking career woman kind of, you know. Sure. Well, she's doing that Rosalind Russell Hepburn thing throughout. Yeah, so good. It's so good. And, you know, I just, I just recently watched one of my rewatch one of my favorite movies,

my man Godfrey. It's great. Um, just, and I was so great to watch it with my son who had never seen it, you know, and just like, I know all the good stuff that's coming. I, as a matter of fact, I, I kind of, uh, created a character in incredible rock that's an homage to Carlo, the guy, the protege of the rich woman. Oh, the Giamatti character. Yeah. Yeah, he's great.

Yeah. In My Main Godfrey, that guy's acting like a monkey to make the girl laugh. That's right. Because she's crying and climbing up the curtains and doing all these dramatic poses. It's just so funny and over the top. But also all those movies and the Capra movies and the Sturgis movies,

they all were talking to their times too. They weren't just, it wasn't just mindless comedy. There was real social import in those movies. Oh, certainly in a movie like My Man Godfrey. They were talking to a generation that was kind of traumatized by the Great Depression, and they were addressing what was happening. And as you remember in My Man Godfrey, it all starts with this treasure hunt for a forgotten man, a homeless person. These rich people are having this big party, and they want to find a homeless person.

Sure. So they can get a prize. Right. And William Powell is the homeless person. Winds up being hired as the butler in the estate of this very rich family. But it's, you know, all those movies really had an effect on me growing up. Well, you look at the social conscience of something like Sullivan's travels. Yeah.

As well. Yeah. Or Mr. Smith goes to war. Mr. Smith. Yeah. It's a wonderful life or yeah.

All it's yes. Somebody told me that you get teary eyed watching. It's a wonderful life. I do every time. Yeah. Is it, can I ask, is it the same part where my wife and I cry when,

when the brother, when the brother says a toast to my big brother, the richest man in town. That's a good moment. That's a good moment. But I think the moment that gets me all the time is when he realizes that his life had value. And he's running down the street and he's saying, hello, Bedford. Oh, you're building a loan. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hello. What was that town Hello, Bedford. Oh, you won't building a loan. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Hello. What was that town called? Bedford Falls? Bedford Falls. Yeah. I watched that recently again, and just a great, just a great movie.

I love that the Hudsucker Proxy and those guys and the Coens, that they have such affection for those films. Yes. And that movie is just, whether you've seen Sturgis and Capra or you haven't, I mean, it's a special piece of work. It's an original piece of work. It sure is. I wish more people would see it. And, you know, the hardest day of work I ever had, the most challenging day of work I ever

had as an actor was on that film, which is when I had to do two and a half pages of a monologue while hula hooping. In one shot. In one shot. No cutaways. And that was what they told me. They told me, we're not cutting away from this shot. And they got me a hula hoop trainer in weeks and weeks before we started shooting. They said, you have to nail this. And I couldn't do it. I, it was, it was so hard because I just, I guess I don't have the hips for it.

But we figured out a way to add a little more weight to the hula hoop. And then it became a little easier, but still I, up until the day, I was practicing every day hula hooping, and I just wasn't getting it, and then somehow it clicked on the day we shot, so thank you. Since you brought up Cradle Will Rock, and I want to ask about it, and we're talking about movies with a message, or movies with a better, you know, about the times, and I heard you say you got terrified when you were directing for the first time and I'm looking at cradle will rock with Bob Roberts, which was a much smaller movie. I'm looking at cradle will rock the other night and it looks like it's a

massive production. Yeah, it was massive with us. Uh, not a massive budget, which is always challenging. Um, yeah, it was a, um, I love that movie. Um, I love doing it. I'm proud of that movie. I think it will have another life because I think it's more relevant now than when we made it. And it was a tapestry. It was, it was, it was my homage to Haltman, you know, that his, he was probably the most influential filmmaker I ever saw. When I was in high school, I saw Nashville, and that opened my eyes to the idea that film can be a tapestry. You can tell several different stories at the same time.

And so when it came out, we, we, we premiered it in can and it got a five minute standing ovation. Oh, that must've been gratifying. because there were some critics that really didn't like it or didn't trust what it was saying or something. And then we had all these pre, you know, when you do screenings in New York City before you go to Cannes, you invite all these entertainment writers and critics, and they give you like one line blurbs about what they thought or two, you know, three, two or three lines. And everyone, everyone that saw that movie loved it. And we were getting

these, you know, we were getting these incredible reviews for it. And then something happened in Cannes. And when it came out later that year, the same people that had written these great reviews had turned on it. And so it was very strange it got great reviews uh and we we were set for uh you know award consideration all that stuff but then what happened was it got made because of a man named joe roth who was running disney at the time and joe had seen dead man walking and said to me, it was the best second film he's ever seen from a filmmaker. And so it was one of those situations where I was able to walk into an office after the guy had read the script and he says, what do you need? And I'm like, wow. Okay. He greenlit it. One man greenlit that film.

And it could happen that way in those days. It could happen that way in those days. And Joe had the power to do it. And I'm forever indebted to him for, for giving me the keys to that car. But he left the job about three months before the movie came out. And I guess the new people that were running it didn't like it. So it was released in 100 theaters, which was a contractual obligation, but with zero advertisement. I actually had my office check on opening day. Wow. There weren't any advertisements for it. They dropped the ball. Yeah, they dumped it.

It's such a good movie with so many outstanding performances. Vanessa Redgrave is great, and Philip Baker Hall is great, and a different kind of part for Bill Murray. Bill Murray's a genius. There's so much going on in that movie. He plays a ventriloquist. Jack Black and Kyle Gass at Tenacious D play the people he has to tutor reluctantly. John Turturro's genius in that movie emily watson

yeah everybody yeah and something but something happened with it was i've never really gotten to the bottom of it if there's any uh you know industrious writers out there that want to figure it out but it was not even released in australia an english-speaking country make any sense we'll try we'll try to run some intel. It's also one of those films that makes you want to open the history books and read about the period. And I read about Rockefeller and Rivera and the mural, and just absolutely fascinating.

And I learned about, I knew HUAC had done some terrible things, but I didn't know how quickly they shut down that program. Yes, and the central story is about a production of a play called Creatable Rock. Yeah, Mark Blitstein. Was shut down by the federal government. They locked the theater from outside. And it's an infamous night. and it's an infamous night.

Orson Welles, who was the director of the play, and John Hausman found another theater and they kept going out in front of the theater to tell the audience that was assembling that the play would go on. They were just looking for a theater and they find a theater. They march 1,000 people up town 20 blocks in this kind of wild parade.

But unfortunately, Actors' Equity, the union, but by the way, this is a pro-union musical written by Mark Blitzstein. The union, Actors' Equity, tells them they can't perform it because it's not the original producer. So their union has forbidden their actors from performing this play. So now all the actors are assembled in the audience to watch Mark Blitzstein, the composer, perform all of the parts of the musical. He starts into the first song, he sings the first song, and then he starts, the first character enters and he's narrating it. And the woman, Olive Stanton, played by Emily Watson, stands up in the audience and starts to sing her part from the audience. And then the subsequent entrances of the actors are all scattered throughout the audience. And a couple of the musicians showed

up and it was this amazing moment because it was artists saying, you know what, we're not actually on the stage, so we're not breaking the actor's equity rule. We're performing from the audience, so we can do that, right? And it became this legendary night in theater and a legendary moment for, you know, the idea of freedom and freedom of speech. And Olive Stanton, for me, was the hero of that story. The Emily Watson character. Yes. Yeah.

It's an important moment in history to have put on film. When you risk everything to speak your truth, that was that moment. When she was risking her standing in Actors' Equity, she was risking her standing in actress equity. She was risking her entire career. And by the way, she was risking her safety because there were cops all around. And a week before that, there had been some murders in a strike. And so the audience was well aware of this. But when we filmed it, didn't tell the audience anything. We just told them the backstory,

the extras that were there, which said, you know, there was this going to be this play, you've just marched uptown, you're all assembled, there's a little tension because there has been some violence lately, but you're going to watch just one person, Hank Azaria, playing Mark Blitzen, he's going to perform the entire play for you. So they didn't know any of the actors were going to stand up. And we shot first in the direction of the audience. And holy cow, the audience was, it was just such a great night. That's great.

Because they were experiencing what that audience back in 1937 was experiencing. And obviously that audience in Cann in con felt it felt that. Yeah. And it was, it was, uh, we had, uh,

we had about, uh, 15 hours of glory on that film. I'm going to, we got a, we got a pretty good listenership on this show. I'm going to urge our listeners to, if you have not seen cradle will rock,

please see it. It's, it's an important movie and it'll make you interested in, in that era. And it's, you know, another movie about politics fucking up a basically good idea. A noble idea. By the way, an era that we might be reentering soon. Yes, let's hope not.

If the economy doesn't turn around. Let's hope not, which is the perfect segue into Bob O'Supreme. Yes. Oral A-U-R-A-L cinema. Yes. Theater of the mind, A-U-R-A-L cinema. Yes. Theater of the mind, we like to call it here. Yeah, I had originally intended it as a film. I was about to go out with Adam McKay

producing as defined financing, and then COVID hit, and it was clear that nothing was going to get filmed, and I wouldn't be able to film it by the time that the election rolled around. So I got to work on adapting it to an oral entertainment. imagination up with so much, so many sound effects and so much movement and music and weird characters so that they could imagine what it looked like. I hope that is what we've done. Absolutely. And you mentioned screwball comedies, the pace of screwball comedies, it certainly moves that fast. It has to. Yeah, it has to. It's great. Yeah, it was, it was,

it was very challenging to do too, because, you know, everyone was in isolation. Yeah, I was going to ask, how did you pull that off? I bought a bunch of microphones, and then I sent the script to some actors who I had worked with, some of whom are good friends, some of whom I just recently met. And I asked them if they would participate. And every one of them said yes. And so I sent them microphones and we were feeding into one engineer. At the time we recorded, I think there were 25 actors and we eventually used about 35 actors. We had done a zoom rehearsal and so we could see each other's face, but when we recorded it, we had to eliminate the, the film aspect of it, the visual aspect because of the sound quality.

So what wound up happening was we were doing this fast paced comedy without, it was, it was really, you know, you had to concentrate on, on, on how this, how it sounded. And it was such a good challenge. Some people were, you know, locked in their closets because that was where the best signal was. And there was quiet and Kerry Kinney and Tom Lennon are in it. Carrie Kenny was saying that she put a sign on her door saying, do not disturb. And she said, I felt like I was like a 12-year-old again saying, mom, leave me alone. I'm recording something. Don't bother me. Don't knock on the door. It's like doo-wop groups recording in bathrooms.

Yeah, for the sound. Yeah. And those, you. And this is the thing, every room had to sound different. You know, there's a bathroom in Babo, there's a White House. He's tricked out the White House in all these different entertainment kind of studio ways. You know, he's got a Rose Garden morning show, he's got an afternoon game show he does called Losers Suck. He's got his science and cool stuff room. It's great. He's got a strip club. He's got a recording studio. There's you know, he's a recording artist slash president.

And so it was it was it had to have this sense of movement, constant movement, this narcissistic president. Narcoleptic, narcissistic game show host. And a game show host. Yeah, it's great. Wanted to get the idea that he just was in constant motion, that he had an attention span about the length of a two-year-old and needed to constantly be moving. You know, Gil, I heard comparisons made. We were talking about Orson Welles a minute ago. I heard comparisons made to Mercury Theater.

Gilbert, you'd love this because it is old radio, essentially, in a way. It's very cinematic, but it is like old-time radio. You know, when I just recently took a trip across country, I, you know, I didn't want to, I stayed, you know, I camped out and cooked out, you know, I didn't want to stay in any hotels, but I had this Sirius XM, and I, there's this old radio classic channel, and I listened to a lot of those old radio shows. It was, you know, that was a great art form. Like Inner Sanctum and those kind of shows? Pre-television, yeah.

Yeah. And amazing, amazing work with sound effects. But Mercury Theater was so genius because they took it to another level. They created a real verite in the work that they did that's why war of the worlds freaked everyone out it sounded like it was actually happening and and not only that but mercury theater was also attuned to doing material that was reflecting people's anxieties at the time and at the time there was, the fascism was growing in Europe,

and the idea of an invasion was not something that was impossible. So it kind of tapped into this collective anxiety, created a panic. And my favorite is this film of Orson Welles being asked about it, and the look on his face saying, we had no idea. Of course you did. That was the whole intent of it. He was such a, he was like, I look at that, that young, that Orson Wells as a punk rocker. He, he just, he. Wow. That's an interesting analogy. Wow, that's an interesting analogy.

He was a rebel, a total rebel. You know, he had a, with his Project A91, with the Federal Theater Project, he had integrated casts, which was not done at the time. You either had an all African-American cast, you had all white cast. He was integrating. He was doing controversial material. And by the time he got around to doing Citizen Kane, I don't know if you know this story, but do you know what Rosebud is?

Oh, yes. Gilbert Rose. Yes. He's Hirsch's girlfriend's vagina. Marion Davies. Marion Davies. Yeah. What I heard was it was his pet nickname for her clitoris. Yes.

That's the rumor. You're, you're, you're, you're a little low, Gilbert. You got to go a little higher. Yeah. A story of my life. It's like real estate, Gilbert. Location is everything. Can you imagine the screening room where William Randolph Hearst is sitting in the dark,

and the beginning of the movie opens, and there's this big close-up of these lips saying, Rosebud. What? How apoplectic he must have become. Oh, my God. It's the greatest cinematic. How does he fucking know? Yeah.

What the fuck? And throughout the movie, the question is, what is Rosebud? That's right. What is Rosebud? That's the big mystery, right? And I can just imagine hearst sweating it out you know when that movie opened it it you know they it had a big challenge because it had some big enemies and um the fact that it survived throughout these years and it's become the classic uh renowned for what it, you know, as a classic, is extraordinary.

And, you know, I think it was canceled at Rockefeller Center. They didn't, the movie theater there. It may be. I have to look that up. Well, of course, they were prohibited from advertising at Hearst Newspapers. And then Nelson Rockefeller, a few years later, while they're in post-production on Magnificent Ambersons, sends Orson Welles out of the country to South America to do a film to try to build

an alliance with South America, World War II, etc. And while he's out of town, they recut Magnificent Ambersons. Yeah, it's a disgrace. Yeah. You know, the film is still good in spite of it being taken away from him, but it leaves you wondering what it would have been. Yeah, yeah.

Did you ever meet him in your travels before he left us, Tim? No, I never did. Well, I love the actor you cast, though, Angus McFadden. Angus McFadden. He's really fun. John Cusack. John Cusack are in that movie, too. Yes, I love the actor you cast, though, Angus McFadden. Angus McFadden. Is really fun. John Cusack. John Cusack are in that movie, too. Yes.

Yes. It's a terrific movie. I want to urge our listeners to get their hands on it. Bob Roberts, by the way, not easy to find. I had to buy a DVD of it. Are there music rights with that one? No. It's just, I'm trying to figure it out myself.

Hard to get. And another odd and sometimes disturbing film you made was Jacob's Ladder. Love it. Yes. Yeah. That was that was the first time I was kind of the. The star of a movie like the central figure of the movie. And I remember shooting, it was very difficult.

I think Adrian Lyme picked every hellish location in New York City for that movie. And, you know, there was nothing pretty about that movie. Abandoned subway stations. Yeah, but also just the, you know, the dirtiest dirt holes, you know,

it was just always, there was always some horrible feeling on the set. The guy being just tortured by demons all the time. It took a toll, that movie. It's not

really... People don't really think of it as a horror film, but it is a horror film. It is, yeah. So is Bob Roberts, in a way. So is Bob Roberts. I just will talk quickly about Bob Roberts and the great Gore Vidal, who's such an important part of that film. Yes, yes.

I had the pleasure, I know you knew him very well, I had the pleasure to spend a couple of days with him while I was working on a talk show. Days I will never forget. What a wickedly funny man. Oh, man. And he and he brings something to that picture. I mean, there's some it has so much going for it, but he brings a certain kind of gravitas. I was very fortunate that he agreed to do it he he lifted it up um and you know there's one scene in particular that wasn't on the schedule um and i i i talked to the production designer richard hoover and i said listen uh i'm gonna sneak a scene in tomorrow i need a set uh i need a his office in in the senate i just need a desk and a background, and I'm going to let Gore go.

And at this point, we're, you know, really tight budget. We had producers hovering. I'm a first time filmmaker. And I figured out an hour that I could sneak in just Gore. And I said to Gore, I asked him first, he would do it. And he said, of course. And I said, listen, I all I want, I'm going to talk to you off camera. I'm going to ask you've just been defeated by Bob Roberts. And I want you to just open up the vault. completely honest as you will about American politics and, and, and what your experience as an ex-senator would have been. And he, it was genius, you know,

what he did. And, you know, I became friends with him and saw him throughout his life. And he did a few events with us at the actors gang. And I, you know, was a drinking partner with him at times. someone that is intelligent and unafraid of saying certain truths about who we are and what is happening right now. Gore used to do this thing in January all the time, his own State of the Union.

He would do it, I think, right after the presidential State of the Union. And it was always just an amazing insight into what wasn't said at the State of the Union. I admire people like this. I admire people that have that kind of courage to speak truth to power. Of course. He was someone to admire. And I guess he brought personal experience to that because people forgot that he'd run for Congress. And he was in that class. And he was in that class.

And he was in that class. He was of that class. He was on the Senate floor when he was a child. Yes, very much so. Reading what—he was with his grandfather, who was a senator who was blind. And so Gore read him anything he needed to be reading on the Senate floor. I just have a question from a listener for you, Tim. Gilbert, you'll appreciate this one.

Jonathan Sloman from the UK wants to talk about Eric the Viking. What was it like working with two pythons, but more importantly, he says on an allegedly chaotic shoot in Malta, he wants to know about Mickey Rooney. Malta. He wants to know about Mickey Rooney. Anything you can share about Mickey Rooney. Mickey Rooney played my grandfather in that movie. Another example of one of those legendary people. Guys who built show business. Yeah, the guys that built show business. I. The guys that built show business.

I had utmost respect for him and he was lovely to me. He was very supportive. And I ran into him a couple more times down the road and he was always very sweet to work with the pythons. Oh my God. But you were turning down parts. Like after you'd done Bull Durham, you were getting a lot of these kind of lunkhead parts.

And you wanted to, because you consider yourself a character actor who wants new challenges, you decided to go in a new direction. Yes. Make a hard turn. Well, listen, when you were a child whose entire comedic references were, you know, George Carlin and, uh, Monty Python, uh, and Terry Jones call calls you up and wants you to come do a movie for him. Uh, I don't see how you say no. I mean, it was what a pleasure. Um, what a genius that guy was. We just passed them. Yeah. Big loss. No, we just passed that. We just lost him, yeah. Big loss.

And, you know, John Cleese is in that movie as well. Yeah. I got to hang out with him a bit. They were heroes of mine. You know, this is one of the – I've had such a blessed life. I've been able to meet and be seen by people that growing up I held in such high esteem. And, you know, not only in movies, but also in music, the musicians I've met and in social movements as well, you know,

being able to have lunch with Nelson Mandela. And, you know, there's something I was talking to a friend of mine about this. And, you know, I was talking about Jackson Brown at the time, you know, who has been a friend for many years. And he had come to see a play I'd written that had music in it. a play I'd written that had music in it. And after the show, he came up to me and said, God, these songs are really great.

You wrote those, right? I said, yeah, I did. He said, they're really great. And as I was telling my friend, I started to cry. And I said, why do you think I'm crying right now? He says, because you were seen. You were validated by someone who you hold in such great respect. And it's like your father saying, good job, son. And it's like your father saying, good job, son.

You know, and one of the things I was able to say to Jackson in the moment that he said that was I wouldn't have, I would never have been able to write anything without having listened to For Every Man and Late for the Sky over and over again when I was a young man. Oh, how nice those songs just resonated in my life uh i think here come those tears again yeah here come those like late for the sky is if you haven't heard this album out there if you're going through a breakup it is the quintessential breakup album and it might be a quintessential album for this point you know when we're all having these weird distractions and removals from reality it's there's such beautiful poetry in that i do take those records out and listen to them even the zivon albums oh my god and he you know jackson was the biggest supporter of Warren Zevon, you know, produced his first couple albums. Sure did. Jackson, by the way, is also the sweetest

and most generous artist. You talk to any L.A. musician, and they'll tell you this. You know, he has created forums and areas for people to meet each other and to create together and to, and, and has recorded and produced, um,

artists before they were known, uh, has lifted up a entire generation of, of, uh, songwriters, uh, extraordinary,

extraordinary human being. We'd like to have him here. We, we, we do, we have musicians on the show. We had Jimmy Webb here. We had Peter Asher and Tommy James and some other wonderful people.

We'd love to have Jackson Brown. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. We've shown your strength for this far, but now we have to ask you about Howard the Duck. Well, specifically, Tim,

I understand that there's video footage someplace that exists. Yes, yes. Of you? Homemade video that you took? Oh my God. See, I have to work out the legalities of this. But

I was so bored on that set. It took so long. It took so long. Okay. So I had a video camera and I just bought it. And so I made a movie, uh,

Howard the duck, uh, based on my, uh, this, I, I, you know, essentially what happens is a very short movie. It's like five minutes long, but I got all these different actors that were in it to be in it with me, including Howard the Duck. And the premise of it is that everybody hates me on the set. And, and including the first AD who yells at me first thing in the morning saying, I don't deserve a breakfast sandwich. And, you know, fuck you asshole, get into makeup, you fucking asshole fucking asshole you know and so i'm like what what what i'm so eventually the first day that kicks me out of my own trailer he says you can't use that anymore we we have a day player coming in wants to use it so fuck off right you can use the the honey wagon the the bathroom that's your trailer for today. So I'm sitting in the bathroom.

I'm like crying. Right. And the door opens and it's Howard, the duck. And he says, get the fuck out of here. Picks me out of the bathroom trailer. I had, and he just goes on to this kind of like weird, like a kind of how I guess my subconscious was feeling at the time of like, what am I doing here? You know, this is, it was, it was strange. First of all, there was a lot of money being spent, but walking onto the set the first day, I knew we were in trouble oh you

knew there was something wrong with the duck it was too cute right right you know i'd done my research i'd read the comics steve gerber the great steve gerber and i was like oh my god they should dirty those feathers up a bit and and then they had this 12-year-old kid that was inside the suit. And he was whining all the time. And he was leaning up against things. The poor kid. I mean, I feel for him. They shouldn't have put a 12-year-old in that thing. It just was too weird to be like, you know, you're the duck, right?

And so it was all coordinated with electronics, how it would move and stuff. So essentially, the person in the suit just had to create the physicality of the walk. And the 12-year-old, wherever he is right now, kid, you know, you got chapped. They should not have treated you like that. You know, you should probably think about a lawsuit, by the way. I'm just saying. There was another guy named Ed that came in, and he was a man, and he was in the suit after that. And he was quite good.

But it was the puppet itself I just felt was, it was kind of in the script as well. I'm not sure they knew whether they were appealing to an adult audience or a children's audience. I mean, there's little duck condoms there, and I'm like, that's weird. It's a weird, pardon the pun, a strange animal. Yeah, but it is the first Marvel movie. I don't know if you're aware of that. Yes. But yes, and then it was, I guess it won some Raspberry Awards and stuff.

The movie I like from your early career is Tony Bill's Five Corners. Oh, yeah. Which not a lot of people know about either. Yeah, Jodie Foster. Really good picture. If I could bring up a movie I brought up that I'm quite proud of, I brought up that I'm quite proud of. Funky Monkey was a movie I was in that they had a monkey suit

with an angry, drunken French midget sitting in a monkey suit. Oh, God. There you go. That does Howard the Duck one better. I'm so grateful to have survived one of the worst bombs of all time. By the way, it was a no-brainer,

okay, taking the, and saying a yes on that, you know, George Lucas was the producer. Of course! He's done the three Star Wars, and it was like, okay, come on, let's go, you know, let's do it. And then that first day, it was a duck, and then it was when, I was supposed to work for three

months, it wound up being six months. I was there long after the other actors were there, doing for about six weeks, shooting that ultralight sequence at the end. I got to know Sausalito very well. I personally think you classed that movie up, Tim. But you mentioned Five Corners. Five Corners is the reason i was able to uh overcome that

howard the duck thing because my agents could say yeah i know but there's this other movie you know you should check that out before you you know put him down that the the trash heap of history you know and uh so i was really grateful to Tony Bill for giving me that shot. Good movie. Good filmmaker. Cradle Will Rock and Five Corners are two movies that we want. You know, people, believe it or not, Tim, they take our recommendations seriously. Really? Well, I've got a couple others. Yeah. Let's hear them. I love this movie called Secret Life of Words that Isabel

Cosette made. And another movie called Code 46 that Michael Winterbottom made. Both movies I did after I won the Oscar that didn't get seen by large audiences and they're still out there. So if you happen to be

restless in this COVID time and want to see a couple beautiful romances. Okay. Those are two. Code 46 and The Secret Life of Words. And I will also recommend Thanks for Sharing. Oh, thank you for sharing. With you and Ruffalo and Gwyneth Paltrow, which was also good.

And possibly mismarketed. I get notes about that from time to time it's a very good movie if you've ever known anyone that has an addiction it's a very helpful movie like Gilbert? Gilbert you have a sex addiction

yeah that and crystal meth well you know just try not to do them at the same time. We'll talk about Bobo again before we let you get out of here, Tim. And I also want to ask about the project you did with your son, Jack, VHS. Oh, thank you. Which you guys are so ambitious to have actually shot on VHS and beta. That's my son. That was your son's doing. Yeah.

I had the conversation with him about, are you sure you don't want it? He said, no, dad, we're doing it with old cameras. We're going to put actual video cassettes in the cameras and we're going to do the movie that way. And it's, I think it's a genius movie.

I'm so proud of him. It's on Hulu. You can see it on Hulu. It's, and it's, by the way, we went down to this festival down in Austin and it started getting these incredible reviews and, you know, comparing him to Cronenberg and David Lynch. And I'm so proud of him. He had a vision of doing this movie. Basically, the premise of it is that it's like a found video cassette from the 80s.

And what you realize as the film progresses, it's a kid that has gotten a camera for Christmas. And he's taping over his parents' wedding video. But he's taping over his parents' wedding video, but he's taping various things with his friend, but he's also discovered late night cable access TV. And so it's like a series of sketches, but it's tied together by this beautiful emotional thread of this kid and his parents going through some rough times in their marriage. And, um, there's, it's, it's moving. It's funny as fuck. It's, it's just, it is, you know, I'm, he's going to make some great noise. I was a fan of the project you guys did. I'm trying to think

of the, remember the name of it, the project you guys did for funny or die about the DJs. Oh yeah. Ultimate, ultimate. That was fun. Yeah, yeah. What was the DJ's name? Sparkle? DJ Sparkle, an eight-year-old prodigy. That was smart. Your son is a satirist.

Yeah, he's very talented. You know, he got a bunch of friends together. He went to USC film school, he instead of doing the final project you know he said i want to graduate a semester early and do my own thing and so i gave him a little money and he did a short film on this dj sparkle and i said you it's you know listen that's really funny if you if you want to she's really talented if you you should you should write a longer form on this and within a, he had a full-length script. And I said, well, I read it. It's very funny. He had different characters, this kind of DJ competition called Ultimate Ultimate. And I said, we should do this. And he says, what's my budget?

And I said, well, you saved me by graduating early from USC, and we'll throw in a little extra money on that. And he got his friends together and made it. And within a year, Comedy Central had bought it to say to, for a pilot, he was being paid and he was, you know, and they didn't pick it up, but all the money was made back. And so when it came down to the next thing he wanted to do, I was his executive producer and I was like, okay, yeah, let's do this. You know, he's, I'm really excited to see what he's going to come up with in the coming years.

He's super talented. Good for him. And nice to see that the talent. My other son's a genius musician. He's got a band called Pow Pow Family Band that is so good. Pow Pow Family Band. Yeah, so good. Generations of talented musicians,

and we should point out those great songs in Bob Roberts were written by you and your brother David, and also the music and the songs in Bobo Supreme, which are great. Thank you. I think Bobo is Strength is my favorite. But there are so many great ones,

and I would love to hear the ones you couldn't do. Well, there's actually one that I had to rewrite because I was so offended by it. But there's a song called Black People Love Me. Yes, I heard that. Which is Babo's attempt to try to get black voters to vote for him uh and so he's hired a couple backup singers and so the way i rewrote it was that the backup singers instead

of writing the songs that the original lyrics that i wrote i wrote new lyrics so that they're singing what they want to basically calling him out and so the the, the song gets stopped because Bobbo hears what they have is just said about him and is angry about that. And they try it again. They say something even worse. So I needed to empower the. And then there's another song called that wheat from the chaff that I didn't want to hear the whole,

whole lyrics of. So after a verse and a chorus, Bobbo gets so angry at the clarinet player that he tasers him and walks out furious because he played it B-flat where you shouldn't have. It was so much fun doing that podcast, man.

I can imagine. What was the line, throw some more shit in the frying pan? Yeah. Just throw more racist shit in there. More racist shit. If I was talking to Patton Oswalt about it, because he's in that scene. Yeah. He's no man. He's got no fucking plan. Just throwing racist shit into the frying pan. It's really great. It's satire.

And as you say, satire needs to go too far sometimes. It does. It needs to be rude. You need to be dangerous with it. It can't be imitation. It can't be parody. And, you know, making fun of, you know, the president's family. I have no interest in doing this. what is this child? What is the id? What is the unbridled id inside that is refusing to accept responsibility for the mess that's been created? It's like a child. I didn't make that mess. I didn't do it. It's like a two-year-old. No responsibility. And so I tried to tap into that. There's a character called Ubu the King that I played when I was in my 20s. That's where I wrote it from that perspective. In the play, by the way, the first performance of which in the early part of the 20th century,

the Parisian audience was so incensed by this character that they tore up the seats of the theater. And there was a riot, a full-on riot in the theater. And when I read it in college, I said, I want to do that play. And it is the most outrageous, scatological, fucked-up play ever. And so when I was writing Babo, I was thinking about Ubu the King.

This, yeah, this basically immoral person in his lust for power will do anything and say anything. It's got a great cast, too. In episode two, Alfre Woodard's speech, where she's basically filibustering, where she's just

hammering him. It's cathartic to listen to. It was wonderful. It's got a great cast. As we said, our friend Patton Oswalt is in it. The great Jack Black. So many funny people. Isla Fisher.

Ray Wise. We love Ray Wise. Just want to ask you about this list of character actors quickly. Gilbert, you'll groove to this. Tim, for you to consider yourself a character actor, this wonderful list of character actors that you worked with, I mean, not only Ray Wise and Charles Durning, but, you know, people like Barnard Hughes, who I think that was his last part in Cradle Will Rock. The great James Whitmore. I mean, you know, people like Fred Ward and Margo Martindale and

Gilbert mentioned Lou Jacoby and Cherry Jones and Robert Prosky and Vanessa Redgrave and our friend Danny Aiello, who's in Jacob's Ladder. These people are treasures. And Ted Levine. Ted Levine, who's great. Pablo Supreme. Great. Love Ted Levine. These are

I guess we call them workmanlike actors. These are the backbone. And we treasure them. And we should be sending love to them because it's a tough time to get through this period. Those that are still with us, I don't know if you're aware of this, but SAG is just, you know, yes, I've been following health insurance for a bunch of people, those that don't know in order to get health insurance in our industry, you have to work, right. And that you have to have a certain amount of work. And during COVID our fucking union

has canceled, you know, you can't work, so you can't qualify. And you'd think there'd be some kind of emergency fund to take care of these character actors, particularly people of a certain age in this time, to get us all through this. You know, I'm fine, but, you know, there's so many people, friends of mine that I've grown up with that are having their insurance canceled. It's shameful. It's distressing. Judd Apatow tweeted about Norman Lloyd, who's 105, 106.

Wow. I mean, losing his fucking health insurance. I mean, it's just pretty disgraceful. Quickly before you go, Tim, and we could talk to you for hours, Gilbert and I are not unlike everybody else who loves Shawshank. Why do you think that it's... Maybe the answer is obvious, but you met Nelson

Mandela. He wanted to talk about Shawshank Redemption. Why do you think this movie endures the way it endures and has affected so many people all over the globe. And you seemingly can't go a day without somebody bringing it up. I don't mind anyone bringing it up because it's been such a profound influence on my life.

Yeah, people, it's interesting, you know, when people do stop me or talk about it or ask about it, there's always some other story that's associated with it for them. I've heard everything from it. It made me realize that it made me realize something about myself that I needed to change the way I was living. I quit my job after I saw it. I got out of a bad relationship because I saw it. It helped me through the most difficult emotional period of my life. It lifted me up when there was no one there for me. You know, it's deep.

It's deep. And I feel honored to be part of that. And I feel honored to be part of a movie that can serve that function for people, that can do something for people's souls. And it's, you know, it's extraordinary what happened because it wasn't a big success when it came out and it just became, it got this life of its own and it's become the, this beloved movie.

But, but not just in the, like, I liked that movie, but in this, this made, made me feel something that really profoundly changed me. Well, when art can lift people like that, when a piece of art, I mean, my mind goes to the scene where you lock yourself in the office and put the opera record on.

When a movie, when a piece of art can elevate and can inspire people around the world. It's a beautiful thing. And a rare thing. Andy? Andy? I have no idea to this day what those two Italian ladies were singing about. Truth is, I don't want to know. Some things are best left unsaid.

Truth is, I don't want to know. Some things are best left unsaid. I like to think they were singing about something so beautiful it can't be expressed in words and makes your heart ache because of it. I tell you, those voices soared higher and farther than anybody in a great place dares to dream. It was like some beautiful bird flapped into our drab little cage and made those walls dissolve away. And for the briefest of moments, every last man at Shawshank felt free.

And yes, and that piece of music is such a good choice for it, too. You know, that Mozart. it, too, you know, that Mozart. It's just, it's, yeah, I mean, it's like that monkey movie that Gilbert was talking about. Just like it. See, there's a pro, Gilbert, a guy that knows how to do a callback. You know, we've had a lot of actors on the show. This is a question about Gilbert, Tim. We've had Richard Kind and Bob Balaban and Griffin Dunn and Joey Pants was here and Danny Aiello and a million, Joe Mantegna. We want to ask you what we ask them. Could you see Gilbert in a dramatic part? Yeah, absolutely.

Comedians are great dramatic actors, all the ones that I've seen. What do you think, Gil? Well, if he says so, I'll go along with it. What did Alan Arkin say that he could see you doing? Was it Lear? Yeah, or someone. Oh, he said he could see you doing

Willie Loman. Willie Loman. I can see that. And my other two favorites was that Dick Van Dyke said I would have made a great buddy on the Van Dyke show. On the van dyke show and uh what oh

geez uh was it adam west adam west adam west said i would have been a great penguin so those were my two proudest moments. I can see you as like a psychopath. Like a psychopath. Like one of those murder movies, you know? And you come like, just smiling all the time. Just like, like, like the character in M like the, uh, or, or, uh, Peter Laurie, yeah. Or Harry wrote junior Gilbert Allen's part and wait until dark.

Oh my God. Yeah. You could play that kind of psychopath or what's the one Richard Widmark where he pushes the old lady down the stairs. Oh, kiss of death. Oh yeah lady down the stairs? Kiss of Death? Oh, yeah. What is that? Kiss of Death. I could see you...

I would like to see you sing an opera. I would pay good money for that. We want to thank some people, Tim, who helped get you here. And that is Jason Smith and Brian Baldinger, who are also involved with Bobo Supreme. Our friends at Starburns Audio. Props to Lisa Rudin, too, they wanted to say. And thank you to Lauren Schwartz.

All the people who helped deliver our guests. We are grateful to. And congratulations on all the wonderful work with the Actors Gang and the Prison Project. It's important work that you're doing. Thank you. It's filled my life in an extraordinary way. The last 14 years has really put perspective

on everything for me. When you go inside and you are able to see the courage it takes for these incarcerated men and women to leave their past behind and embrace a new reality and have the courage to go up and pretend to be characters and express emotions that they haven't expressed for years that have been locked inside them. Yeah. To see that liberation and to see that beauty come out, it's extraordinary.

It makes everything possible. And the actors gang, yes, we will. And the actors gang will be up and running again and doing good things all over the world once this accursed pandemic lifts. You bet we will. We're surviving. We're continuing our programs in prison. We're continuing our education programs, actually expanding our education programs via this new medium of teaching. And we've been doing some workshops as well to develop new pieces. And so whenever we can assemble in a room together, we will, and we will get through this and we'll be better for it.

And the kinds of material we'll be presenting will be relevant to this time and will resonate with our audiences, I promise. You have done wonderful work and made a difference in a lot of people's lives, so congratulations. Bobosupremepatreon.com slash Tim Robbins Presents is how they can get it. Please, please, please. Five episodes. Hey, we all need a good laugh, right?

Yes. I was going to ask you about that. You saying humor was essential to survival. Absolutely, man. This is what we miss the most, isn't it? The ability to assemble, whether it's in a restaurant or a movie theater or a live theater or a concert hall, be able to stand with other people, could be strangers, and create a temporary community around the emotions that are being expressed in those places and share a collective anger or a collective fear or to laugh together or to weep together this is something that is essential for the human condition and it's something that's been kept from us and and uh it's it's uh my hope that uh babo supreme can can kind of create a weird virtual community where you can go someplace and laugh together at something

and gather strength from that. It's a hoot, and it's a lot of actors and friends having fun, and that fun comes across. And like I said, we need to laugh. It's so important right now. Will you do more than five, and will you direct another comedy at some point? I know you directed an episode of The Brink and some other things.

Will you direct another feature comedy? I would love to. I would love to. And I have many ideas about that and scripts. It's just about getting someone to give me the keys to the car. Okay. I won't crash it, I swear. Something that we've discussed on this show a lot, and that is also, I mean, it's, I also, you know,

I've seen the films where you're laughing all at the same part, or when the hero shoots the bad guy and you're all cheering. But do you think movies, movie theaters have any future? I don't know. I do know that this is going to be a significant cultural shift when we come out of this. This moment in particular, I think people are starting to make decisions about what that will be. I would encourage those people that hold that kind of power to really assess the situation. I think we're in a moment like it was in the early 70s when Hollywood was making all these irrelevant movies and the streets were filled with strife and riots and protests against the Vietnam War. And Hollywood was putting out musicals like Thoroughly Modern Millie and no one was going to see them.

And Hollywood was blaming it on television. But it wasn't television. It was that they were making irrelevancies. And what happened was Dennis Hopper made this movie called Easy Rider. It was a huge hit. And all the Hollywood studios realized there is an audience

still out there and they started hiring all these hippie filmmakers and that's how we got robert altman that's how we got hal ashby and brian de palma and alan picoula robert benton martin scorsese right all of them you know all of these coppola yeah. Just genius moment in American film. It all came out of not knowing, and that's where I think we are right now. I don't think people really know what audiences want. I think we got a little glimpse of it, though. I think we saw the success of Parasite, and we saw the Academy say to the industry, we're going to give this best picture, best foreign picture, best director, and best screenplay. Make more films like this. Wow.

Right? Wow. I hadn't given that any thought. Absolutely. It was the Academy sending a huge message. Makes sense. To the industry. And what was that movie about?

It wasn't about superheroes or rich people. It wasn't escapism at all. It was about us. It was about the income disparity that was happening. It was about poor people. Just like some of those movies in the 30s that were about poor people. People that wanted to see stories that reflected their lives and not fantasize. Well, I hope you're right. It would be a lovely outcome. It would be a lovely silver lining to

this whole pandemic if that were true. And we did return to those glory years. I'm holding out hope for that. And, you know, I hope that people might be able to see that. I have a feeling they're just going to try to say, hey, you know, look over here. That didn't happen. Just here's your superhero movie again. You know, don't worry about it. Remember how fun this used to be? Hey, everybody.

It's all okay. COVID didn't happen. Here's some more movies, you know. I don't know if we're going to buy it. It'll have to happen differently because that studio system doesn't exist anymore, as you well know. So if they do turn the keys over to the artists, as they did, as the studios did in the 70s, it'll have to happen differently. I hope so. Here's a question. Whenever'll have to happen differently. I hope so. Here's a question. Whenever we have a guest

who's directed, I always like, how do you know that the director you're doing something with is a bad director? He's put you in a monkey film. That's how.

Yeah. he's put you in a monkey film. That's how, that's how you do it. Um, you kind of know right away. Uh, I had an experience recently. It,

you know, when a person came up to me on the set of this thing I was doing and said, here's what you're doing in this scene. And I was like, Oh boy. Wow. You just said the wrong thing. I didn't say this out loud. I didn't say it a lot. Oh God. No. Um, it's a shame that some people, some directors are just visual and, and don't really know what an actor goes through.

Uh, I found that some of the best directors I've worked with are people that either love actors or, or have been actors themselves. Um, there's some people that actually just don't fucking like actors, you know, and they shouldn't be working,

but you know, they, they bring it in on time and under budget and you get another chance. You just described Gilbert's whole movie career. There's time though, Gilbert. The first $100 million

box office filmed opera of Waiting for Godot. It's starring Gilbert Gottfried. Waiting for Gilbert. Gilbert, let this man get on with his day. Tim, this was great. Thanks so much for having me, you guys. Oh, you were great.

You're so generous. Okay, this has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to a man who, when he was 10 years old, went on a date with a priest. Thank you, Tim Roberts. And, Tim, if we ever meet up, we're going to talk about Bob Murphy and Lindsay Nelson. And Ralph Kiner. And Ralph Kiner and Brian Gold and the sign guy and all those great memories.

Oh, man. I was there when they won it in 19... I know you were. I saw the documentary. October 16th, my birthday. Yeah. Good stuff. And happy belated birthday.

Thank you. And go Dodgers. Go Dodgers. All right. Bobbo Supreme folks and find cradle will rock and Bob Roberts and five corners and the brink and all kinds of wonderful things and the secret life of words and all of these wonderful projects that Tim is involved with. I'll see, on The View again if we ever get back there. Okay. Thanks, Frank. Thanks, pal. Thank you. Thanks, Dara.

Count it in, Rudolph. Yes, sir, Mr. President. One, two, three, four. Everybody's telling lies but me Everybody's making up their own reality Everyone that hates me is unable to see That Bobo is love Bobo is love

Everybody is in love with war Everyone that fights for me knows what they're fighting for Bobo is shouted out from shore to shining shore That Bobo is peace, Bobo is peace It's everybody's right to be a slave To work from morn to midnight till you meet an early grave The worker and the farmer in the home of the brave cry Bobo is freedom, Bobo is freedom

It's everybody's right to be dumb The less you know, the less you care, the less to overcome Come Boboist, it is the time to beat the fucking drum Cause Bobo is strength Bobo is strength Bobo is strength