Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - "TV Funhouse" Turns 25! w/ Robert Smigel and Dan Pasternack

Episode Date: August 12, 2025

In part one of a two-part episode, Emmy-winning writer-actor-director Robert Smigel and this week's co-host, writer-producer Dan Pasternack join Frank for a 25th anniversary salute to the cult Comedy Central series, "TV Funhouse." In this informative and hilarious interview, Robert talks about his love of animal-centric comedy, his lifelong obsession with "Mr. Ed," the humble origins of Triumph the Insult Comic Dog and how the homoeroticism of superhero movies inspired "The Ambiguously Gay Duo." Also, William Shatner takes down Trekkies, Leo Durocher meets Herman Munster, Dan befriends a legendary "Batman" writer and Robert remembers the late, great George Wendt. PLUS: Cluckin' Chicken! "Lancelot Manzi: Mafia Chimp"! The passion of Al Pacino! The brilliance of Dino Stamatopoulos! And Robert keeps a kangaroo in his basement! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, kids, it's your old pal, Frank Santepadre, comedy writer, pop culture obsessive, and that guy who had the honor of sitting across from the late Great Gilbert for nearly a decade. That's the guy. We had an incredible time bringing you guys over 600 episodes celebrating classic entertainment, forgotten Hollywood, and the wonderful personalities who made it all happen. After three years away from the mic, I'm thrilled to introduce my own podcast, Fun for All Ages, with Frank Santo Padre. Fun for All Ages builds on the spirit of Amazing Colossal,

but we're not just interviewing celebrities about their story careers. We're diving deep into their own passions, treasures, and obsessions from the 60s, 70s, and 80s, all the way through today. We're talking movies, TV, music, comedy, toys, and collectibles. Basically, if it made us laugh, cry, or geek out, we're going in. So expect funny, freewheeling conversations with icons, experts, superfans, and the creative minds who help shape the entertainment we love. Plus panel episodes, live shows, and surprises galore. If you're a fan

of the Amazing Colossal podcast, you'll feel right at home. And if you knew, well, welcome to the club. I promise you'll enjoy the ride. So join me, Frank Santopadre, this summer for fun for all ages. Find us on all streaming platforms and use the link in the description to subscribe and never miss an episode. Frank here inviting you guys to join the official Fun for All Ages Patreon page. Why? Well, studio time isn't free, podcast hosting costs money, and you're not just supporting your new favorite podcast. You're helping to preserve Western civilization, probably.

We'll start with one single tier for just $5 monthly, so for the cost of a cup of coffee a month, you can keep a struggling host off the streets and in the studio where, let's face it, I belong. Think of it as joining the fan club you always wanted to join as a kid, but instead of a decoder ring, you're getting a logo sticker and a personalized note from me, and on-air thank you by name, and the opportunity to submit a question for our illustrious guest or panel. And you'll also get the warm, fuzzy feeling of knowing you're keeping the laughs and the content coming. And, hey, if you enjoy the content but you don't want to support it, listen, that's fine too. I'll just be over here, creating in the dark, alone with nothing but ambival.

ambition and crippling debt. So join us, support the show on Patreon, and remember, if laughter is the best medicine, then this podcast is a walk-in clinic with a low $5 co-pay. Everyone stay up and play for the last cartoon show of the day. TV, GD, fun house coming through with animals that be. And blue, Annapal's adventuring Out in space or plan with string You did your homework, thereby earning

Run the last show before you turn in the last show To be entertained Swift is good, but TV helps your brain For now Hi, it's Frank, and welcome to Fun for All. I'll never get through this. And welcome to Fall Fun for All Ages. I can't remember that. I'm laughing so much. I can't remember the title of my own show. Hi, it's Frank, and welcome to Fun for All Ages, the podcast for hopelessly obsessed pop culture junkies like me and like you.

Come on, admit it. I would also include in that group the two semi-distinguished gentlemen who were kind enough to drop in for this episode. First, my co-host this week, he's a co-host and a co-guest. Oh, he's like a, it's like a gum and a candy. Oh, so every week you have a different co-host? Not every week. You don't do the show every week.

I do the show every week, but I switch off. He likes to keep him guessing. You switch off. Sometimes it's just me. Oh, sometimes it's just a co-host. Yeah. Let's introduce. Anything to keep the audience.

like what will happen next the 19 people Dan Pasternak is a comedian hi Dan is a comedian writer podcaster producer preservationist and professor that's a lot of peace who dedicated who's dedicated decades of his life to the art production and study of comedy and at the age of 11 I love this he wrote and performed novelty records that enjoyed airplay on the Dr. Demento show he'd go on to work as an exec and a producer working under such legendary figures as Fred Silverman, Barry Diller, Dutel, and Carcy Werner,

overseeing hit shows like Diagnosis Murder with Dick Van Dyke and the first two seasons of Law and Order SVU. Why do tell with Barry Diller? Is that a gay reference? No, it's just he's got a new, he's got a tell-all memoir out. Oh, Barry, Barry Diller does? Oh, okay. Yes.

I like these interruptions during the, during the introduction. I'm just very interesting. Should I jump in, too? It makes it feel in the moment. Okay. There's no rules. Yeah. He oversaw.

Or viewers. Or listeners. As well as developing and producing shows with Jimmy Kimmel, among others. Stop me if I get any of this wrong, Dan. He oversaw content for the Turner Broadcasting Digital Comedy Platform, Super Deluxe, we remember it, working with talents such as Bob Odenk, Mercia, Maria Bamford, Nick Kroll, and Norm MacDonald, and at IFC, and at IFC, where he was the lead development exec for popular shows such as Comedy Bang Bang, starring Scott Ockerman and Portlandia.

And that's our show. With Fred Armisen. He's going to do Gilbert. See you next week. He's going to do Gilbert. Fred Armisen from producer Lauren Michaels. Nearly 30 years ago, he began his reviewer. How much longer do we have to hear about Dan Pasternak?

Don't tell. Isn't it enough punishment that we're going to listen to Dan Pasternak? Now we have to know everything about Dan Pasternak. His wife doesn't know these facts. You're not wrong. He's also written for Vulture, Emmy Magazine, The Huff Post, and Late Nider, and a recurring column from McSweeney's, My Sign Comedy LPs, One Comedy's Nerds, Obsessive Journey. You'll forgive me for not getting to this, getting through this in one bite, Dan.

And in his spare time, Robert, he teaches in the grad film program at NYU's Tisch School of the Arts. The man's been busy. He's also moderated dozens of live events. and panels featuring everyone from John Cleese to Frank Oz to Chevy Chase and yes, Robert Smigel and he'll be producing and moderating an upcoming national tour. This is exciting

with Robert Hayes and David Zucker featuring a director's cut of the comedy classic airplane. Oh, a director's cut. Ooh. Do tell. Do tell. It's going to have additional scenes cut into it? What is not what a director's cut is? It's a version that he's recut.

Are you serious? Yes. Exciting. Because it really did have a lot of flaws. People hated it. It's really unwatchable. It's like George Lucas when he went back into... When he ruined Star Wars?

Yeah, exactly. Oh, okay. Every director is entitled to ruin. Right. There he hits. I think so. And I'd like to, you know, be part of that. Okay, okay.

Robert Smygel. Did he wait for Jerry Zucker to die before he did this? I thought the other guy died. Jim Abram. Oh, I'm sorry, Jim Abram. We just killed off Jerry Zucker. Sorry, sorry, everybody. Everyone, calm down.

Jerry Zucker is still alive. Everyone relax. Scary, good guy. Dan Pasternak has 20 more facts for you to hear about, and Jerry Zucker is still alive. I was going to call the show Jerry Zucker is still alive. Really confused people. Robert Smygel, pray that I get through this, is what we call in the podcasting game a white whale guest. For years, he was on our short list at the Gilbert podcast.

but we could never manage to book him. After years of my shameless pleading, he is here. He's an Emmy-winning producer, writer, director, actor, puppeteer, philanthropist, and former dental school student, and one of the leading comedy figures of his generation. At Saturday Night Live, he created or co-created fan favorite sketches, including Bill Swirsky Superfans, Cluck and Chicken. Oh, that was good. And Trekkers, the Trekkers sketch featuring William Shatner.

Notice he's not interrupting his Gilbert now. Well, as unforgettable cartoon shorts Saturday TV Funhouse, including the ex-presidents, fun with real audio, conspiracy rock, and, of course, the ambiguously gay duo. He would go on to create and produce the cult classic Comedy Central Series TV Funhouse, which turns 25 this year. Oh, wow. By the way.

I got to apatow that shit. Yeah, you got to. Which he called the most Emmy. It's the 24th anniversary. Every post from Judd is like celebrating the 18th. anniversary of Drill Bit Taylor. Owen Wilson and I are going to not talk to each other because he won't answer my phone.

The 10th anniversary of Drill Bit Taylor. He does. He posts every other. I love that your apatose sounds like fucking Mortimer snurred. That goes way back to Samadies. It's a little Edwin. A little Edwin. Yeah, I mean, actually I'll get.

I did a puppet on the TV Funhouse show that was a big snake, a bow constrictor, and I used Judd Apatow's voice, but it was Adam Sandler's impression of Judd-I. I love it. Anyway. What was that? What's Terrence eating? Terence, thank you. Terrence, what did Terence eat?

Yes. I remember it fondly. You called, by the way, TV Funhouse at the time the most Emmy-proof show in television history. He's also created memorable sketches and characters for a late night with Conan O'Brien, the ill-fated but much admired Dana Carvey's show, and perhaps his most famous creation, the beloved potty-mouth puppet, Triumph the Insult Comic Dog,

a character that spawned his own CD and DVD collection and a podcast, too, and led to the Adult Swim series, The Jack and Triumph Show, and I adored every episode. Thank you, and don't forget that he also... A toy called Triumph in your pocket. Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

That was the dirtiest. sound bite, I did. As a screenwriter, he's written or co-written the first two Hotel Transylvania films you don't mess with the Zohan, as well as 2023's terrific animated feature Leo, all starring his longtime palin collaborator Adam Sandler,

but wait, there's more. He's also an actor with 75 acting credits. What is that about? Is that true? Yes, who's appeared on popular TV shows like The Simpsons, Kirby, Enthusiasm and what we do in the shadows and in feature films, Punch Drunk Love, this is 40. I don't know which

anniversary it is for this is 40, but I'm sure God will let us know. It's the 13th, the big one, three. And the critically praise between the temples. Boys, boys, welcome to the show. I can't believe you didn't mention Lookwell. Oh, I have Lookwell

on cards. Okay. We had to keep it as, you know, under 700 words. That was the concise fucking version? That was the concise version of the Robert Smigel bio. That's, uh, that's how do your other guests Let's get through this.

Do they have long intros? Who did you have last week? I'm trying to remember. We had Dana Gould. Dana Gould. That's a good guest. Yes, and I had Frank Conniff and Sven Gouli. Ooh, I did Svanguly.

I know you did. I almost put it on here. Okay. You want to tell us about this toy, triumph in your pocket, which we were talking about before we turn the mics on? Well, I mean, I'd rather talk about

things that I get paid for. This is something that NBC had me do at Triumph's Not that he's past his peak But he's past his peak I wouldn't Oh I wouldn't say that This is back in the 2000s

When Triumph was big on the late night show And they were marketing things And they called something Triumph in your pocket And it has six sound bites I've got moves for you You suck You're a great friend

For me to poop on Okay there you heard the orgasm Yep May I sniff your bud That's what I said to Jennifer Lopez I like you. But then again, I eat my own crap. Oh, I need kids.

It's all in fun. It's all in fun. And that Ikeed, I kid is what they told me after they said you're going to get paid for this. They didn't pay you. Yeah, then they said, I kid, I kid, you're not getting paid. It's a nice little trinket. It's a nice thing to have. It is a nice thing to have.

It's in my smigle collection along with my autographed ambiguously gay duo lunchbox. That you were kind enough to sign when you were on the view. I remember. Turn to Fun for All Ages after this brief intermission. Okay, gang, so we do this every week on the show. We thank all the generous and helpful Patreon patrons for contributing to the show by shouting them out on the show. And we're going to do another batch right now. And hopefully, as far as pronunciations go, I do a little better than Sherry O'Terry did in attempting to

pronounce my name on a recent episode of my engineer, Bobby is laughing, on a recent episode of Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade. Frank, Santa Pietro. But I credit her for mentioning me at all, so thank you, Sherry. Here it goes nothing. Larry Schultz, thank you, Daniel Frank, Patrick Bodale. I know all these wonderful people. Eric Heller, Kathy Neederberger.

I wanted to say that one like flounder. In Animal House, Niederburger, Marquis Johns, Patrick Itso, Izzo, who does a lot for this podcast, Patrick, so thank you for this and so much more. Josh Marowitz, Micah Holmquist, thank you both, Bill Rowland, Bob Flint, he listed himself as a friend, but we're naming him, we're outing Bob Flint, we're naming him anyway. Deborah Deshawn, or Deshawn, how do you say your name, Deborah? We've been talking a long time. Brett Warwick, David Die Bell, or Dee Bell, Gary Clee, or Gary Clay. See, these are stumpers. Thomas Padgett.

That's an easy one. Stan Schwartz. Tom Kennedy, not the old game show host. Kevin Lauderdale. Jeffrey Castel de Oro. I love that name. Here's a challenging one. Joao Carlos Bastos.

Let me know if I got that one right. I actually looked up the pronunciation of that name on Google. Sean Anderson, Jared Driscoll. Thank you both. Aaron Alcott. We're outing you. You didn't put your full name in there, Aaron. but I know you.

George Grimwood, the great and talented, Perry Shields and Brian Daly will round it out this week. So I apologize for the ones I mangled. If you wanted anonymity and I read your name anyway, I apologize for that. Don't sue. And thank you guys for contributing. It means a lot to the show. It means a lot to us. As many of you know, I don't record the show at home.

I do it in a proper studio. It makes for a better show. The interaction is better. The audio is a more controlled environment. And you guys help support that. And I appreciate your support of the production. And the production values of this show means a lot. So come join us at patreon.com slash fun for all ages podcast.

Once again, that's patreon.com slash fun for all ages podcast. And you can get a sticker and a personalized note and a shout out on the show and all that other fun stuff. So I thank you again. Longbendy Twizzlers candy keeps the fun going. Keep the fun going. And now back to the fun. You've done a thousand wonderful things, Robert. Yeah.

But let's, decades of award-winning work. Decades. But let's start with what's most important. Very old person. Yes. That's Lou Derman and Mr. Ed. Oh. Do you have you booked Lou Derman?

Lou Dermon's coming in after you. Yeah. It's a long-distance call. No, I figured you could book dead people, you know, if you had trouble getting alive people. We had dead people on the old show all the time. Fun fact, Robert, when Lou Derman was your age, he was already dead for four years. Is that true? He died at age 61 or something?

Sixty-one. Died in 1976, I looked it up. Lou Dervin was, for people who don't know, I was one of the staff writers at various shows in the 50s and 60s, Burns and Allen. But perhaps the longest running program was Mr. Ed, the talking horse, Mr. Ed. lasted for five years, I believe, on the CBS network.

This was at a different era before, you know, CBS got very, what's the word woke? And by that, I mean that they did shows with where they made a horse appear to talk. Now, don't get me wrong. A lot of rumors came out of that show about how we made the horse talk. And some of them are absolutely distortions. For example, people said that we would apply electric shocks to the tail of the horse. and that's not true. I mean, we did it in the first season

and the second season, but then we decided that we wanted more range from the horse. More range. Yeah, more range. We were getting the same movements. Sometimes we would move the tail to the left and shock it and believe it or not.

They would alter the voltage. I see. They would alter the voltage and alter the position of the tail and but believe it or not, we got the same horse mouth movement. So we had to adjust. So we would feed the horse peanut butter, but only peanut butter. All day long, the horse just ate peanut butter.

So he spent the entire day licking, trying to get the peanut butter off of him. And of course, we had to only give the horse peanut butter because if he, if this is like, If he ate anything other than peanut butter. Now, Lou, did you get a product tying in from a peanut butter? We did, the people at Peter Pan, we tried to sell it to them because we said, you know, Peter Pan kids love Peter Pan, kids love Mr. Ed, the talking horse. So, but what happened was, you know, like I said, we had to only feed the horse peanut butter because if we fed him anything else,

he would prefer it. And then he wouldn't want any more peanut butter. You understand? Peanut butter is all he knew. And so nothing but peanut butter all day long. And eventually the horse's stool smelled peanut-y. And it upset. And stuck to the roof of your mouth.

Larry kidding. Well, I'm not going to get into the Christmas party. But we would, you know, take our turns. That's, we're not going to get into that. But anyway, Larry Keating, who played the neighbor, Mr. Addison, he could not tolerate the smell of the peanuty excrement. So once again, we had to change the strategy. and now we tried applying gauze, putting gauze under the horses, the lip of the horse.

And the gauze would be very uncomfortable for the horse, which was allowed the horse to move his upper lip tremendously. And that gave us some comfort for a while. But then there was a national gore striker. of 1963. And you just couldn't find gorse. So then we segueed into, what was it? I'm sorry, my memory is not great because I'm dead.

It's all right. No, no, no, no, this is important. This is very important. We would occasionally attempt to put off forearms up the horses, re-ran. That wasn't for a reaction. That was another Christmas party. Okay, all right. I'm going to go back to death.

I don't... Oh, that's wonderful. That was Lou Derman. Yes. In the days, as you've pointed... That's a good booking. It's an excellent booking. I'm happy to have them.

That was one of my favorite shows. It's reminiscent of Gilbert's old groucho. Oh, I suppose it is. Yeah, yes. That's true. That's a good one. Robert Smigel's Lou Derman will replace Gilbert's Groucho on the old... Except the Lee Derman only talks about how to make a horse talk.

Gilbert's old grout show is one of my favorite bits of all the best things in the world. Yes. Appearing on Mr. Ed, because I did some research. Some interesting people. Leo DeRosher. Oh, that's one of my favorite episodes. That's one of the best episodes of any television show. Yeah, great.

Zsa Gabor, George Burns, Iron Eyes Cody. Well, you know, George Burns actually produced Mr. Ed. Yes, I knew that. I produced Mr. Ed. That's not a bad. George Burns. It's not bad. May West.

Gracie and I worked with Lou Derman for years. He was wonderful. Do you know about Swain's Rats and Cats? Oh, sure. Yeah, he knows about it. Are you asking me or George Burns? I'll ask you. I'll ask you.

Oh, Swain's Rats and Cats, sure. We would pass around the ladies. It's actually a pretty good George Burns. It's pretty good. So the rats would ride the cats like jockeys. Yes. George and Gracie worked with this act in vaudeville. Swayne's Wrecking Cats.

Clint Eastwood was also on Mr. Ed. It was a wonderful days before Gracie passed away, unfortunately. She was in a coma. You know, I like the way you say coma. It's a hard, see, it's a funny word, coma. It was a, I wrote a song about it because I would get so many laughs when I would tell the writers that Gracie's in a coma. everybody would laugh and then I figured

I might as well run with this I knew a girl from Oklahoma and Grace's in a coma I'm going to give that girl a call and that's all that's the rest of there's more but that's enough of that song that song was a sleeper hit oh god I did it for Carson

I did it for Johnny in 1982 and crowd didn't buy it even back then they were woke woke funny word I'm loving that we opened this show with 16 minutes of Lou Dermann followed by George Byrne singing It's just a parade of dead juice

A made-up coma song Also Clint Eastwood Was on Mr. Redd And We was doing a lot of television back then Dan's personal friend Oh wait I knew that Yeah Clint Eastwood I can't remember what he played

But yes Clint Eastwood Yeah he was just starting it to be a movie star back And Olawn Suley, one of Dan's old friends. Indeed. Who's that? Olin Suley? I swear I was the voice of Batman and the filmation Batman, opposite Casey Kaysim's Robin. I knew that Casey Kaysen was Robin.

Yeah. Now tell him, because you guys know each other, but you don't know the O'Anne Sulee connection, which is interesting. So Olin Suley was a big star in radio, but he was a very short, slight man. But he played these, like, larger-than-life, hyper-masculine. on radio. And he was like a leading man. And there was a famous story when he was buying some patio furniture. He'd moved from Chicago out to L.A., and he was buying some patio furniture. And the man saw the name on the check as he was buying the patio furniture and knew him from radio. And he went, Olin Sule. And he looked at him and looked at him and he said,

well, I don't mind telling you. I'm disappointed. You know him, Robert. That's a picture of him from North by Northwest. On the Andy Griffith show. Oh, yeah. He was John Masters, the choir director on the Andy Griffith show. He played a choir director on seven sitcoms, probably. At least. Kind of like Charles Lane playing accountants and bankers.

Right. Or Leo DeRocher being on every sitcom. On the Munsters. Yes, that's another great episode. Another great one. It was always the Dodgers because they shot in L.A. Everybody wanted to be on the Dodgers. Yeah.

But anyway, Olin was my best man at my wedding. That guy? Yeah, that guy. When he was in his 80s. He told, we're doing a pre-in-a-old, he tells, pulls this out on me. No, he was, he was. You just really felt closer to an 80-year-old character actor than anyone else in your life? Pretty much.

That's beautiful. And Stanley Ralph Ross, the famous Batman writer, was also. Well, he officiated my wedding. There you go. That's also pretty cool. Yeah. Good sitcom stuff. What did you watch as a kid?

Now, I know you were, people think you're a fan of superhero cartoons because of all the TV Funhouse stuff. But not really. You weren't really, although you liked Adam West Batman and George Reeves Superman. I watched for the theme songs. Mm-hmm. And then I would turn to like, you know, McGillie Gorilla or Bugs Bunny. Although I love the McGilligilla theme song, too. I was a big theme song person.

Interesting. Favorite cartoon theme song. Well, when I was a kid, it was McGillie Gorilla. Oh, that's a great one. I was obsessed with that song. That's a great one. We've got a gorilla for save. McGilla, Gorilla, For Sale

Corilla, your dreams, the sweetest Gorilla, Gorilla for sale He's real, he's ideal and he's awfully cute He's an ever-living doll in a monkey's loop Gorilla, Magilla, Gorilla for sale How much is that gorilla in the window? Take our advice at any price A gorilla like McGilla is mighty nice, Night,

Warilla, Megella, Borella for sale. I loved all of the Jay Ward theme songs. But they were instrumental. No. Wait, which ones are you talking? Like Super Chicken or Tom Slick?

I love Super Chicken. I love Super Chicken. Yeah. Call for Super Chicken. Muck, Yeah. How about those Hoyt Curtin themes, the Jetsons and John?

Johnny Quest. I loved Lloyd Curtin's music, and I used to play incidental music from the Jetsons. Oh, interesting. On the piano, like my friend Doug Dale, who hosted TV Funhouse, taught me how to play Jetson's incidental music. But I love incidental music on sitcoms. One time I was when I was starting as a stand-up,

I loved Andy Kaufman and I really wanted to do weird shit so I would dress up as an orthodox rabbi with like gigantic cotton candy beard and I would come out with the hat I can't believe I miss this and the long coat

and a big prayer book and I would just scowl at the audience like with upside down frown and then I would turn the pages like the old men in my synagogue used to when I was lost They would, like, lick their tongue and then turn all the, turn to the right page for me. But I would do it just for my own, and I would just continue to do this with no regard for the audience.

Just lick my finger, turn the page, lick it again, turn the page, lick it again, turn the page. Then I would start eating the cotton candy beard. It was all part of this, like, thing. And then a couple of times I took it so far that I, I, I, I, I, Like the old rabbi suddenly realizes. And I'm, you know, the idea is to do this until it's not funny. Like you do it. First you don't get laughs.

Then it takes long. Then it's, then they start laughing because you're not stopping. You're committing. That's like a Gilbert bit. Well, or an Andy Coffin. Or an Andy Coffman. It's just the commitment. Deconstruction.

And one time, I think it was only one time because nobody got this. I just like looked at the audience like I finally noticed them and I figure they need entertainment. So I had this little boom box that I, produced, and I just pressed play, and my three sons incidental music. It's like, no, no, that's the theme song. This is the stuff that... The filler. The scene fillers, yeah.

Does anybody remember this? Sure. And sometimes it was light and bouncy. Bum-Bum-Bah-Ban-Bah-Bam. Sure. Sure. Nice. So I would just keep doing the licking and the turning while this music played,

like the slow version and then the bouncy version. I can't believe you didn't break through as a stand-up. The sad version. I don't know why either. I didn't try hard enough. When you say it's in our music, for some reason, the Gilligan's Island incidental music is the one that comes to me. Dan-da-da-da-da-dan-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d. Like Gilligan wandering through the jungle.

Right. Skip-barp! Yeah. Yeah. There was also the menacing music on Gilligan's Island. Oh, what was that? Um, dum, do, dum, dum, do dum, when he was like when there was a threat, there was a threat somewhere in the island. Yeah. These things stay with me. The Porosibagumba guys were invading the island and they'd play that music.

Of course, Batman had a lot of great incidental music. Yeah, but that was like deliberately great. Yeah. The villains had their own, some of the villains had their own little little mini theme songs and little, little mini bits of music. Absolutely. We were talking on the phone, Dan and I, about this stuff. By the way, speaking of Batman...

Batman 66, everybody should see that movie. Oh, yeah. It's one of the greatest comedies of all the time. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Dana Gould shares your opinion, as do many others.

But Stanley Ralph Ross write the movie? Lorenzo Semple. Lorenzo Semple. But Stanley wrote more episodes of the series than any other writer. Ballpoint Baxter. He also played Ballpoint Baxter. I assume they had a writer's room, right?

I mean, they must have collaborated people. I don't think there was a writer's room. I think Stanley was a story editor. So, like Lorenzo Semple wrote every word of that Batman movie? Because that's amazing. I believe so. That's great. Yeah.

And three days of the Condor. And maybe, and they read the Parallax View? I think he wrote the Parallax View, too, Lorenzo Semple. Oh, really? Yeah. Which is interesting. That's an amazing range. That's range, isn't it?

That is range. Yeah. The fun never stops, but occasionally we pause for a word from our sponsor. Hey, everybody, Frank here. Remember the British invasion? You know you do. When the U.S. went crazy for the music, the fashions, the spy films, and the sports cars from the UK. And the coolest cats in Hollywood wrote stylish, fast British motorbikes.

Well, the good news is that timeless style never really left. Just found a new home. British Motorcyclegear.com based right here in New Jersey offers motorcyclists a curated selection of high-quality touring adventure and classic style jackets, pants, and accessories that reflect that iconic era but with modern materials and protection. You'll look great on or off the bike in Bellstaff, Merlin, and their own BMG brand gear, stylish, safe, and built for today's ride.

And you'll get personal one-on-one service from this small enthusiast-owned shop that serve motorbike riders for over 30 years now. Available only online at British Motorcyclegear.com, where Heritage meets the open road. Use the code fun, that's FUN, at checkout, for 10% off your purchase. That's Britishmotorcyclegear.com. And now back to the fun. Do you know Gilbert's bit, the Caesar Romero thing,

from the old show where you're going to be? he insisted, he would just make up rumors. He would say, now I heard. Yeah. And it was just bullshit. Yeah. And he made up this thing on the old show, maybe 15 episodes in, that Caesar Romero, who was gay in real life. Yeah.

Enjoyed hiring boy toys to pull down his pants and underwear and throw orange wedges at his naked tush. Now, he put, Gilbert put this out there, and it was a laugh. And then we'd get Adam on the show, and he'd ask Adam, I'm going to send you guys, Adam's reaction to this. which is absolutely priceless. And he asked Julianneumar, and he asked Burr Ward about it. As if he was earnestly... Yes, earnestly asking...

He was asking it like the Danny Thomas legend. He was asking it like he was Edward R. Murrow. To wait a minute. With all conviction. When we were at Gilbert's memorial, not a memorial, when... The thing in November?

Dara exhibited some of the outtakes and everybody talked about Gilbert. Richard Kine brought up Caesar Romero. Was he doing... Was he bringing up this, Make-believe. Yeah, I'm going to clue you in on this whole thing. I was totally lost when I...

Now you know. And I made him... I asked him, and I must have looked like an idiot because everybody else was probably in on the joke. So I played for Dana Gould, Gilbert, asking Adam West about the orange wedges. And Adam says, that sounds like wonderful fun. And now that's Dana's new thing.

That sounds like wonderful. Tell us before... And since I'm on the subject and we're jumping around all over the place, and Dan said before when I was showing him my cards in the intro, he said, no, look well, tell us about working with Adam. Tell us about, because people want to know about you and Conan writing that wonderful pilot for him. And as Dana says, he's everything you want him to be, Adam West.

Oh, he was. Yeah, he was. He, well, so here's how it really started was when the Michael Keaton, Tim Burton, Batman came out. Cinema Village downtown, which is like the only movie theater still left. It was playing a double feature of Barabarella and Batman 66. And we all went, well, me and Conan and Greg Daniels all went very excited to watch Batman 66. I hadn't seen it since I was a kid.

And just could not believe. how funny it was and how Adam West's performance in it is one of the greatest comic performances I've ever seen. Agreed. He plays so many levels. It's just like, but it's a level above even Leslie Nielsen in the Naked Gun or any of those type of movies where it's kind of like an idiot who thinks he's smart. But that was it. We just saw it and just reveled in what a genius he was. was. And then Spike Ferristin, who famously wrote for Seinfeld. Sure, soup Nazi. He was a receptionist

at S&L at the time, and he was just starting out, venturing into writing. And he got a gig. He told me writing for Nickelodeon, and I'm supposed to develop a show for Adam West. And then just I just said, why don't you have him play a detective who, excuse me, a guy who used to play a detective. of who thinks he can still solve crimes. Just hit me, like, immediately as, I don't know why, but that's how quick. Sometimes my favorite ideas are the ones like that where they just happened by accident.

And, of course, he didn't have the, that's not what they were looking for at all. So, but a year later, you know, I told Conan the idea probably a few minutes later, and he loved it. And then Spike's thing came in, went, and we decided to write up Lookwell. And we really only wrote it because we wanted Adam West, and NBC made us audition everyone

else. Oh, God. Yeah. So we met. It was fun to meet, like Max Baer Jr., and Chad Everett. Wow. And Monty Markham. Monti Markham.

Still with us. Monty Markham was the only one who was even in the ballpark. Funny guy. He could play comedy. He was good. Yeah. He was the only other – because then they made us audition in front of, like, the network, like in front of Warren Littlefield and Tardikoff. But it was everybody who basically was that guy in the 70s.

Well, where they weren't even like – they were a medical center or, you know, I mean, they played lawyers or anybody who just had a mannequin head from the 70s. Papard didn't come in. Papard did not – he did not factor in. David Jansen? He was dead. He died real quick. Yeah, he died young. He died.

He blew up real quick. Sorry. To the Johnson family. Check out my Instagram post. It's really good. My apology. You guys went to, as you like to say very similar to, you went so far as to hire EW. Swackhammer to direct the pilot.

Yes. Who had done shows like SWAT and Jake and the Fat Man and McLeod. Yes, we figured let's get a guy who did those 70 shows and just have it look exactly like that. And I believe he went by the nickname Swack. Swack. Everyone called him Swack. Wow. Look at you, Dan. I'm impressed. Some people called him one-take Swack, which was not a good match. If I had known about that nickname, we might have reconsidered hiring Swack.

Wow. Because, you know, we were two kids who had no idea how to make a show. And we were like, it was good, but let's try it again. And he didn't quite do it the exact way I heard it in my head. Oh, geez. One take versus the Robert Smigel ethos seems like they would be at cross purposes. Stanley Puberick over here. It's so great.

I actually used to, I gave myself nicknames before other people could. So when I was at the Conan show and I had a big, you know, perfectionist vibe. going and very complicated bits that we've heard this about you yeah so i i nicknamed myself cecil b de bears excellent i've not heard that before that's great yeah how was how was spending time with adam because i knew him i loved him so much he had this crazy um paradoxical quality to him where he was incredibly well read uh-huh and some something of an intellectual but on and then there was another side of him that felt completely naive and daft and like just a, you know, dad jokes kind of guy. And they just coexisted all the time. This childlike innocence

mixed with deep, deep intelligence. And so he was fascinating. Yeah. Whose idea was the mock turtleneck? Oh, that was my idea. It was so perfect. It was fun. Yeah. It was just something that felt like everybody old a lot of them go to the turtleneck phase to cover up

all this goo and yeah I just I always found mock turtle knicks hilarious yes absolutely Dan how much

would you came up with so many great part like the Lusite badge that kind That's also great it's brilliant how much would you have wanted to be in

on those auditions and see Max Bear come in and read for look well And Monty Markham I wish we had video of them Fantastic To quote a favorite new podcast of mine If I were Toady Fields

I would have given my right leg There you go He's quoting my first episode You have to hear this Gilbert impersonator That we work with This guy Barrett Letty Have I met him? He was doing the voice

The night of the show Did he write that joke? No we were talking about Tote Fields And he just off the cuff said I would have given my right leg to work with Toady Fields. Oh, so he improvised. Yeah.

That's a great job. He'll be happy that you, that you said that. Shit, yeah. But Dana Gould had an interesting question about Lookwell that I'll ask you. He said, I loved Lookwell. He said, but what's episode eight and what's episode nine? What are you? Some kind of studio guy?

I don't like to hear these. Dana Gould's a suit all of a sudden. It's a procedural, right? It's the case of the week. To be honest, I... It's a procedural. privately to Conan I expressed the same concern I would imagine I was like we'll figure it out later we both figured that let's talk before I wanted to ask you about George Went I know I'm

jumping all around here because I brought up Bill Swirsky's super fans in the intro and we just lost him yes love that man you say a couple of things about him he was just uh everything I love about Chicago, which is where I moved when I was in my early 20s, because I, the reason I quit stand-up was because I just didn't have the patience to go to the club at 1.30 in the morning when I was working my way up there. And then I figured, well, this is a long part of the story, but I met Tim Kassarinsky in a lobby in New York City, and he told me about Second City, this place called Players Workshop, where George was one of the famous.

as people who had come out of it, George Bill Murray. And he said, you can do it in a summer. So that sounded good, no low commitment. And so I fell in love with Chicago. And even though I grew up in Manhattan my whole life. Upper West Side, right? Upper West the Upper. Yep, yep.

And then we moved to the east side, regrettably, when I was like 14. It wasn't the same. But when I moved to Chicago, I just couldn't believe, like, the vibe. It was so friendly and clean, and everybody was more relaxed. It didn't feel as competitive. People had sort of a dark kind of self-effacing sense of humor. And George was all those things.

And he was so game every time we did these super fans bits. He would be the most relaxed. You know, I'd be me. and I'd have all my, I would be carrying around this bag full of, like, costumes and moustaches and spirit gum and, you know, and he would call it career in a box. He'd just laugh and call it career in a box and say, okay, what are we doing? And, you know, and I'd give him a script and, and then he'd just do it perfectly because he was that guy. Underrated actor. Totally underrated.

He was not respected enough. Certainly at S&L, I don't think he was respected. He wasn't invited to the 50th, which I couldn't believe. Oh, that's too bad. I don't believe he was. I feel, because I talked to him about, yeah, I talked to him. Also, I wanted him to, when the Pope was chosen, and he turned out the Chicago guy, there were a million things about the Pope Pope.

It was like on the cover of the Chicago Sun-Times. Right, right. Almost every joke that S&L could have been, could have made. made, had been made on the internet, it seemed. But I called them up and said, you should just have George play Pope Leo. Just bring him in and have him play Pope Leo. And I texted George and he says,

I'm not holding my breath. And he was right. But he was, yeah, he was deceptively brilliant because he was effortless. Yeah, and maybe sitcom actors who are on a sitcom for a long time and get known for that typecast for that kind of part don't get enough respect as actors.

Yeah, but he did host Saturday Night Live twice and he was excellent. He hosted one of the most famous weirdest episodes ever, which was the Francis Coppola direct Saturday Night Live. Yeah, but George was like a hilarious straight man to Coppola.

And that was your first season there, right? It was my first season. I didn't have anything on that show. But it was a really cool, interesting show. And then he hosted again and did, and that's when we did, the super fans. I had done one with Mantania and then... Another nice guy.

Oh, such a nice guy. We had him on the last podcast. Such a great actor. Gilbert. One of the things I feel so lucky about was that I got to see him. Did you see him in Glenn Gary, Gunleross on Broadway years ago? Yeah, amazing. Nobody has ever matched his performance, in my opinion. Was he Ricky Roma? Yeah, he was Ricky Roma and he just, he got it.

I've never seen anyone do it quite, or maybe he just ruined it for me because he was so perfect. Well, it almost felt like he and Mamet had that thing almost like Scorsese and De Niro. Like they were sort of two halves of a hole in a weird way. Right. But he played the guy like, just like Joe Manton, like a regular guy. So when he's like seducing the foil in the first act, it's hilarious because he's just rattling the shit off like a regular guy. And it's really subversive. And I remember killing with the audience, too, because they got it.

They knew what he was doing. He's just tricking the guy by making him feel like his friend. And, like, I love Al Pacino. I got to work with him, which was an absolute thrill. He's maybe the most fun actor I've ever gotten to work. Interesting. You would think if you're, you know, if you would think of that scenario, okay, Al Pacino's going to do an Adam Sandler comedy, he's just going to slum it, right?

he's just going to walk through it, take a paycheck. Couldn't be more opposite. He was like, we're going to meet, we're going to meet at my house, we're going to improvise, we're going to work through the script, and we're going to learn things every time we do it. And that's what we would do. That's fantastic. Me, Pacino, Sandler, and we would sit there,

and I can't remember, Steve Corrin probably, who was the other writer there? I mean, Steve was the credited writer on the movie. But anyway, but I was sort of brought in to write the Pacino, parts and to kind of I don't want to babysit is not a is a condescending term but I was I was there to make sure Al was happy and working well and to be his comedy Yoda so I wouldn't call myself a Yoda but I my comedy whatever my uh give me an hour what would Lou Derman have called hey a comedy horse you're the one who was there to apply the peanut butter to Al Pacino's Well, he gave great comedy performances in his career.

I mean, Dick Tracy, you know, he certainly knew where the laughs were. Oh, but he's amazing in Jack and Jill. Yes. And he actually got great reviews for it. He is funny. The movie was ripped apart for whatever reason, but Al Pacino got... I do think there's two Pacino. There's, like, pre-C-of-love Pacino.

Mm-hmm. And then... You know what I mean? It's almost like his voice completely... Got more gruff. He got that voice. Yeah. I saw him...

Well, he started with more... I'm not going to do him, no. I saw him in a Merchant of Venice. Uh-huh. He was amazing in Merchant of Venice. He was amazing. I saw him. Hilarious.

No, but, like, Al Pacino on stage is a whole other experience. But huge hunks of scenery in his teeth. Yeah, but it's Broadway. It's a stage. Oh, absolutely. It's so different than in a movie. Yes. Yes.

He's filling the theater. He played it big, but he was... Has not a Jew or... Sonses to mansions. Who wasn't that, Phil? It's not bad, Dan. No, he was... It's very good, actually.

Yeah, very good. But his performance was a little more shaded than that. So you mean there was the pre-seinery-chewing Al Pacino and the post-senery chewing Al Pacino? The you're out of order. But I also feel that's early on... Maybe the turning point. That's earlier.

Your out of order is before Sea of Love. It is. Well before. You're right. But I do feel that his voice was in, like, a different register. It was in a higher register. when he was Godfather, and then he got more into this voice. Yeah.

And, but anyway, just the fact that he was willing to parody himself in the Dunkinio commercial and take every catchphrase that anyone's ever pulled out of his performances and turned it into a rap song. And the choreography in that scene is hilarious. It's very funny. Well, he's a great dancer, too. Yeah. I had seen him dance before. And, yeah, so that didn't surprise me.

at all. But yes. What were the improv sessions like at his house? I mean, how he would go through... Go off the reservation a little bit? We would go through the script and we would improvise a little and then sometimes he would say, you see what we learned there? You see what we learned? You know, my character doesn't necessarily feel like

Jill is into him yet. And we're learning this. So, you know, let's do it again in about a half hour. Go have half a sandwich and come back. That's hilarious. He's treating Jack of Jill like it's Merchant of Vendos. He's taking it seriously. He said at a dinner conversation,

he said, every movie, you got to approach it like you might win an Oscar. Wow. He said that. About Jack and Jill. No, he said it about, well, that's the crazy thing. Wow. He said it in the context. Well, I have a meeting about Jack and Jill. Wow. But the point, but in a way, it's like an amazing thing to say because he's going to give it his all. He's going to, he knows he's not going to get an Oscar for Jack and Joe. But he wants to give a performance that in his mind is Oscar worthy. And to me, that the guy was already in his 70s. Amazing. Had nothing to prove.

What a body of work. Yeah, but just a beautiful man, honestly. That's nice. He had so much spirit and energy. It was one of the best experiences of my career. You know, and of course you've met so many of your heroes. It is refreshing when you meet them and they don't disappoint. Yeah.

They turn out to be, you know, you know. You know, because I'm going in to meet Al Pacino now. I hope to God he lives up to my expectations. Oh, man, he's the best. Because I don't want to walk around with... Yeah, for sure. Since you're talking about Adam, I want to ask you about... Because I saw you laughing at this online in an interview with Howard Stern about the clucking chicken sketch, which is among your favorites.

It is among my favorites. That you wrote. And your first piece that you wrote, which utilized animation. That's correct. Very good, Daniel. Jim Signorelli directed all the... pieces, except for, oddly enough, Schmitzke, which was the other big commercial that I did in my years at S&L.

Also great. Yeah, that one, I'm very proud of that one. But clucking chicken was how I met J.J. Settlemeyer, who ended up animating all the TV Funhouse cartoons for the first two years. But yeah, it was, you know, in the 90s, I always had an obsession with animals. comedically always found them funny. I was doing Triumph's voice with animals when I was like 10 years old.

I would see a dog and I would do that voice. You and your sister would kiss the screen after you watched Lassie? Yes, that was when I was like four or four. How did you learn that? I did not know that factoid. I find things.

He said it in an interview. But I find it interesting too that a guy who loved Lassie and Mr. Ed grows up to do a show like TV Funhouse where you're working with live goats. And peanuts.

I mean, peanuts is a major influence. We'll get into Shultz later. But in terms of animals, you're right. And it was like a dream to have a show like TV Fun House and be surrounded by animals. And all of them had Eastern European access. All of them. I know, which was a big criticism.

Well, the dogs did. Every dog had an Eastern European accent. Zabu had one. Zabu had a huge one. Yes. And that was because dogs have this wide-eyed, look in their face that's reminiscent of Russian immigrants who came

who just arrived on the at Ellis Island and I'm like a I guess a second generation you know Russian Jew my mom came over from well she was born in China she her parents oh so your first

generation I guess well no yeah maybe I am because my mom my mom wasn't born in America either my dad was but so I'm like half whatever anyway the thing is I I always likened dogs faces with their tongues hanging out in their wide eye wonder with Russian immigrants who had just stepped off the boat and landed on Ellis Island and they're like look at all of these I that's the only way I can explain it what a very what an only way I can explain it juxtaposition I'm just trying to delve into

my self-conscious, my, my, my self, your subconscious. My subconscious, thank you as an eight-year-old or 10-year-old without the aid of therapy. I see. So when Michelle, when Michelle brought the triumph puppets, the dog puppets, yes. Home, did you have the, did you look at the puppet and have the voice immediately? Oh, I had been doing that voice. Like I said, you've been doing a sense of kid.

So you just transposed it to. Yeah, and Michelle, well, I found triumph. I found those particular puppets. at a furniture shop called Mables that used to exist in Manhattan that had a country furniture and we were newlyweds just starting.

This is when the Conan Show was starting. I got married right at that time and we were looking for country furniture and there was this whimsical rack of puppets because every furniture store that's, you know, a boutique furniture store has to have something whimsical. So they had a rack of puppet heads

And they were the most realistic animal puppets I'd ever seen in because I was used to like, you know, Kermit type shit. Mm-hmm. Not that it's shit. Anyway, I was so amused to put a realistic dog's face on my hand and move around with it that I immediately sniffed my wife's ass with it in the middle of the store. And, of course, she thought that was hilarious.

And then she surprised me on my birthday with like seven of these puppets, you know, a dog and a cat. and a goat and an owl. And then Westminster happened to come back to New York every February, which is like a week after my birthday. And I put together this idea of like, let's do the opposite of what Letterman would do or was doing. It was his first year at CBS, the Ed Sullivan Theater,

and he would have, ladies and gentlemen, the Westminster dog champions, and they would just run up and down the aisles. Sure. Sure. And that's pure Letterman, like, just have the dogs act like dogs. And it was really funny. And so what would we do? My whole thing, our mantra was, we're going to be the show that makes stuff up. We're not going to do found humor. I had a million rules like, and most of them, when we started Conan's show, were based in, let's not do what Letterman did. I was saying he outside it. It was at a high bar when you guys came in. Yeah, and all we wanted to do was not do what Letterman did, not. be compared to letterman so so we did a bit with these puppets and conan said these these westminster dogs get more and more talented every year and uh we've got some of the champions

we've got some of the champions here to display their talents um and then it wasn't for like four years that i thought of insult comic i we had like dog sing the theme from the bodyguard or dogs doing i remember banjos dogs uh Did you call John Groff at some point and say, can we bring this back in a different context? Yeah, and then by then they were like a magician dog, sewing another dog in half and a dog that lights its own farts. And my favorite was a dog who does Jack Nicholson. And so we had the paw. So we had the dog with the, you know, I had already come up with this idea of having these long sticks for paws when we needed them.

And so, which was probably ripped off unconsciously from Tunis, the driving cats opening, which I was transfixed by. Me too. It's wonderful. When you got the real cat with the fake arms, I was in heaven. I used to tape those rehearsals. I would run up to the 17th floor where the offices were and put in a VHS just so that I could see that cat for like 30 minutes. Who wrote them?

Some Jack Handy? Jack Handy. Oh, okay. Jack Handy had big hits. He didn't just write the weird 1245 stuff. He had some huge hits. I couldn't get enough of those skits. But sorry, so Triumph.

So the Jack Nicholson. Oh, my God, yes. So I had a dog put a paw over his forehead because that's what the hack, Jack Nicholson thing was. Right, right. Pulling back your hair and just going, I'm Jack Nicholson. The Fred Travelina version of Jack Nicholson.

Yeah, well, Fred Travelina had gobs of makeup You know, it's very funny. So people would put their hand on their forehead to sort of replicate a receding airline for Jack Nicholson. When Prevenza and I interviewed Gilbert, he said he remembered that there was a bald comedian. Oh, that's hilarious.

Who put his hand on his forehead because he thought, oh, that's what Jack Nicholson does. He puts his hand on his forehead. He just likes to put his hand on his forehead. It was an impression of an impression. I'm Jack Nicholson. Oy, oy, oy, yoy. Ooi, oh, y'oy.

But Jack Nicholson, I had a dog going, I'm Jack Nicholson. You can't handle the truth. By then, like, Louis had learned how to do the voice and John Glazer, I don't know, different guys had all learned how to do the Triumph voice by then.

Is it different people doing the Eastern Year? As Dan points out, all the Eastern European voices for the animal the antipals on the anapal is it is it just you or is it glazer because glazer's on there laser did the little the little uh geez the glazer did the turtle that travels through the toilet pipes oh I'm taking the pipes I love those and then um I think I did the two major dogs by the way that gets us back to the clucking chicken that's because that's the clucking chicken voice you just did oh well yeah it was very similar but sandler did it even more high and, hey, everybody, how's the me?

Choppity chop. Yeah, that's where it was all started, my obsession with animals. And mascots, it just cracked me up that there'd be like, you know, a chicken fast food place, and the chicken's got a big smile on his face, this cartoon chicken. And so this was just the manifestation of... Well, the thing that's brilliant about the clucking chicken is the juxtaposition of the animation and the actual dismemberness.

You get to actually, we actually filmed it. It's just brilliant. Really funny. A strange cousin of Akroyd's Julia Child sketch in that way. Yeah, I suppose so.

Really, really wonderful. Hey, kids, how's the me? You taste great, Plucky. Holy for noly, the oxygen's leaving my brain. Any last words, Clucky? You betcha. If you want to place with the great is chicken

Take it from my head It's easy picking cause Something's always cooking at the clucking chicken Being dead never tasted so god Nobody good So TV Funhouse I mean again A guy who grows up watching these loving animals

And watching these animal shows It's just it's kismet that you would wind up And of course the old show Bizaxium Don't work with dogs and animals It was a dream for like two episodes and then it became a night. I can imagine. I can imagine. I mean, we just went so far over budget because like even the whole joke was we don't want the animals to do tricks.

That we just want to put them in positions where it looks like they're in on the joke, but of course they're not. They're an animal and that's what's so funny. I'm thinking the one with it, there's a church where all the animals, it's a Christmas episode. Yeah. And there's just like, there's just geese that are just in the shots. doing anything and baby chicks. We had all these pews, and we would just place these various animals in the pews and hope that they wouldn't move around because, like, that's all we wanted.

It's just to be respectful because you're in church, for God's sake. Now, the most brilliant example of this that I remember is the birth. Oh, the cat birth. Oh, yes, that was Dino's idea. Dino Stamatopoulos was co-creator of that Comedy Central show. As you called him on Reddit, writer and deviant, Dino Stambatopoulos. I don't remember that.

But describe what happened. We love Dino. This is so genius to me. Well, all it was was a delivery room scene where a cat couple is having, giving birth. But, you know, of course, in our world, they don't just give birth like real animals. They're in a delivery room.

And there is a Boston Terrier puppet who also has the Russian accent. Of course. Who's like the obstetrician, right? Yeah, he's the obstetrician, and he's delivering the children. And Jackie Hoffman was playing... She's the best. So funny.

She was playing the cat, the pregnant cat. And I don't remember who was the dad, but she was... Or maybe John Groff, actually. High-pitched voice cat. and she's giving birth and real kittens. Real kittens are coming out of her snatch, basically.

We had a giant hole in between this cat puppet's legs and real kittens are crawling out. And the beautiful thing about that scene, it's already funny, just that these unaware, adorable kittens are... Emerging from the birth canal.

Emerging from the birth canal of a puppet. But then, like, the timing could not have been more perfect. It was as if this little kitten was just born with the instincts of Buster Keaton or something. The kitten crawls out and it's almost like he thought in his head, okay, we've done this joke like three times. Let me give it a little spin. So he crawls out, looks around, and then tries to call back in to the hole. And, you know, I'm the, I'm the, no, no, you can't go back in. No, honey, no, little kitty, you can't go back in. You can't go back.

again, and it just got one of the... That kitten knew it needed an ending. Yes, well, there was an ending beyond that, which was that then there was a Boston Terrier puppy that comes out. And then the obstetrician is busted.

Right. Which makes perfect sense that there's... The litter is mixed with kittens and a Boston Terrier. It's fantastic. One fifth of the jizz that got into was Boston Terrier. What I love, by the way, our mutual friend, Dave

just cow as the mosquito in the uh you look a little like jeskow is that i do wait well you have a jeskow quality there's some suspicion there okay yeah there might have something might have gone on some boston terrier some bear some sperm got in there some from somebody in the uh in the safari episode yeah yeah just gal is playing the uh the mosquito what i was saying is what i love is the puppets are doing the hard work love jes he's great he's the best the puppets are doing the hard work there's almost no need for the live animals to be there except that they're there that's why it's fun I know, because they're not doing anything. They're just, except occasionally getting butt-fucked or something.

But from a production standpoint, I mean, was it the live animals that sent it hours and hours? Yes, that's what sent it into over time. Because even getting live animals to just be in position, like getting a cow, setting up a shot where a cow is drinking a milkshake, we had this restaurant called Sames. I love that. With the seat with the- Why do I think that even the animals are going, Robert, we have it? Don't we have it at this point? You have it.

Take 60. Yeah, and the cow is like, how much more this fucking milkshake do I have to drink? The cow's like, Robert, we're on golden time here. Come on.

I would have listened to the cow more than a studio executive. I would have trusted that remark. I would have trusted the cow more. Because the studio executive has, you know, a motivation to get the show, you know, he's worried about the budget. The actor knows he did it.

Sam's is great. Sam's, you eat what you are. That was the slogan. Really funny. Yeah, it was a demented. And we wrote a whole... So Just Cow was one of the people that we would have come in to play various animals.

And we thought we were helping our friends out. You know, everybody, you know, is struggling at that time to get roles or jobs and, oh, this is great. You know, everybody can come in, play a puppet. They'll get... Everybody was on that show. Andy Daly and Brian Stats. and Odin Kirk and Tracy Borgon.

But certain people would come in and play puppets and we thought we were doing them a favor, but it was not fun because a lot of times you were under a puppet stage that was only like three foot high and you're just cramped. One time, I'm sure you've heard this story, like a goose shat through a hole.

I've heard it. It got in Dino's mouth or something. The Dino told it on the last podcast. Oh, okay, yeah. So eventually, you know, we would have scenarios where we would tell the actor friend

okay that was a great job we got another one next week you can play the cat again and he's like I'm good you even had kangaroos aren't you crashing

at your friend's house because you can't afford it now why didn't you get Pacino to do a puppet yeah exactly an Emmy I get an Emmy do it like you're getting an Emmy

best character voice of Al Pacino as the goose that was raped pigs geese, sheep, chimps, monkeys, goats, even kangaroos. There's even a kangaroo. The fun, yeah, the kangaroo was in my basement in my apartment building.

We actually, I lived on 11th Street, and I had a little space in a basement where I was like, because my apartment was very small, so I was able to rent an office space. And we had this bit where a kangaroo was a cross-dresser. and he was ashamed he didn't want his wife to see and I don't remember who came up with this but the joke was his version of a cross-dressing

was just, you know, his wife would be away and then he would secretly look in the mirror and take this pouch that he'd ordered online and he would just like put the pouch on his waist

and that was the cross-dressing version of a kangaroo and we would play this music and he'd be dancing around, and then his wife would come in, and that was a real kangaroo. Right, I remember. The real kangaroo had no lines.

It was just like, honey, I'm just, I thought you were going to the office, and the kangaroo, somehow we got the kangaroo to be aggressive with the puppet kangaroo. And, but I just. Did you have a real kangaroo in your basement, in your apartment building? In my, that's, they still talk about it.

Is that a violation of your lease? I have no fucking idea, but I had a really cool landlord. I had a really cool, super excuse me and they still talk about it like occasionally when i walk past 11th street and talk to someone oh yeah we still talk about the kangaroo that's fantastic were you ever afraid for your safety with any of those animals i mean and chimps could be violent as you know when you shot lancelot mansy mafia chimp the funniest thing about brilliant yeah that was a parody

of lancelot link which was an adorable bless your heart for that show that was made in the like 1970 and it was all about a Humphrey Bogart kind of detective. Chimps were very big in the 60s. Very big. As comedy, there was a Ted Bessel sitcom called Me and the Chimps. Chimps were big.

Gary Marshall sitcom. Yeah, Ed Sullivan had, you know, everybody had chimps going around. And orangutans, the Barrasini orangutans, which, you know. And the marquee chimps. Marky chimps. The marquee chimps.

Very good. All of which don't exist now because we know. that they were treated worse than Mr. Ed. Yes. But these chimps, what was hilarious? So this is already the year 2000, and they're under the...

We think that chimps are being humanely treated nowadays. So this was hilarious. They would make us all be really quiet when the chimps would enter the studio. And it was almost as if, like, they were talking about, you know, Joaquin Phoenix or something. Don't make eye contact with him.

He's in character. Just please don't even look at him. They didn't want us to look at the chimps. And we had to be super quiet when the chimps walked in. And they're all in their costumes. And, you know, it was hilarious. Like, they were suddenly super high status. And then I remember Dino seeing one of them in the dressing room.

Like, we had only seen them in their mafia costumes. And then Gene Dino, like, walks past a dressing room and one of the chimps doesn't have clothes on anymore. One of the chimps is undressed. And Dino was like suddenly embarrassed. Like, oh, I'm so sorry. It felt like he had walked in on a celebrity naked. It reminds me.

And it's a chimp. I don't know if you watch some of the early episodes of The Man Show when Adam and Jimmy were hosting the man show. But they did a ton of stuff with chimps. And there was one bit that they did, which was like my wife, the chimp. It was sort of like one of those... Is this something that Twitter's going to get a hold of now and make Jimmy look bad? I hope not. Because let's stop if it's going to be one of a zillion things that I was on that show that they tried to put against Jimmy now.

No, I'm kidding. I think that this is very wholesome. My wife, the chimp? Yeah, I think it was something like that. And Jimmy had to do a bit where he's making out with the chimp. Oh, God. But it's so gross. But it's a chimp in a dress.

Yeah. But it was a male chimp. Right. And the chimp got a... full erection, which was... Oh, that's a good story. That's funny. I remember...

It wasn't like... Because the Tim Kazerinsky... Yeah, I married a monkey. I was just going to bring that up. Those were hilarious. Yeah, really funny. Tim really sold those. Yeah, he was amazing.

And they played him like soap opera drama. Yeah. But didn't Tim say that the chimp was unbelievably strong and like almost like broke his arm or something? No, yeah. Especially the baby chimp, I think, also freaked out one time. Yes, the chimp got really mad. It turns out, you know, now we know through years of research, chimps don't want to be on Saturday Night Live. Or on Lancelot Link.

Yeah. It's not their first choice of daily activity. But that is real improvising. I mean, doing that on live television? I mean, there was a rough script, but he would improvise off the chimps activity. Absolutely. It was thrilling. As I was saying before, were you or the actors or the puppeteers afraid at any point with the chimps and the kangaroos and the...

I don't remember a little bit of the... kangaroo. Yeah, I would imagine. It was a little scary. You got a lot of warnings like, you know, don't get too close and that kind of thing. The kangaroo was probably the scariest animal that I ever dealt with. I can't remember if I ever dealt with anything scary with Triumph. Did something with guard dogs once, vicious guard dogs, but it was through a gate.

So that was easy. Only eight episodes. Only eight episodes. Too bad. So you could say that about everything I've done. But they're there. They're sitting on YouTube to be enjoyed by everybody.

I suppose they are. Yeah, we wrote a second season and then they backed out. Let me ask you guys. Let me ask you a couple of questions from listeners. I thought this was a fun one. Bill Rowland,

what was William Shatner's reaction when you first showed him the Trekkers that get a live sketch? When I pitched it? Yeah, I think you wrote with John Vitty and George Meyer? Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, I pitched. It was an idea I just had with and I just I asked those guys if they thought it was too mean to the nerds that was my only concern

but nobody did back then and so I pitched it to Shatner and he really laughed he had never heard the term get a life which I still don't know where I heard it I didn't make it up but that

but it predated the sitcom yeah by lot it predated the sitcom I don't know where I heard it it originally, but that sketch kind of made that term famous. That's probably, in some ways, the most, like, Dabers isn't something people really say in real life. Get a Life became something that people actually said a lot, and that sketch was the first

thing that really popularized it. But, yeah, William Shatner, yeah, he laughed, and he was totally up for it. You could tell he's having fun in that sketch, yeah, yeah, that he's enjoying himself. Yeah, he was. And Lovitz and Carvey. and I guess it's Kevin Neal and so funny. Yeah, that was a big turning point

in my career there because I had a really rough first year and then I had a run in November and December where I got the Steve Martin Holiday Wish sketch on which was they play it on the Christmas

specials and then this Reagan as the mastermind sketch. With Phil as Reagan. With Phil you know, pulling all the strings on the irine contrast scandal. And then two weeks later, Shatner came on and I got that sketch on. And it was like my

whole career changed in three shows from like this guy who barely got rehired to somebody that they weren't going to fire at that point. And the rest is history. Or something. Here's a good question from David Warhoftig. How did you get some of the material in the ambiguously gay duo past the NBC sensors and what? Was there any pushback? Well, that characters, those characters start with a conversation with Dino. Yes. Dino, we were, so we did the Dana Carvey show, and Dino was a writer on it, and he pitched me a card.

I said, I want to do cartoons. I want to make this show as different from S&L as possible in terms of the aesthetic. So, Dino pitched a Wallace and Gromit cartoon where, he said, what if, what if, which one is the, Gromit is the dog What if Gromit's blowing wall As he said And I was like I don't think we can do that

But then just It was again It was like an instant conversation Like Lookwell Or I said what about two superheroes And everybody suspects they're gay And I don't know where the leap came from that to that

But in my head I had That had to start with Batman and Robin It did It was entirely influenced by, well, there was a lot of gay panic at the time and also gay. A lot of people, a lot of people frustrated with celebrities

who were not coming out. Do you remember, like, back in the 90s, there was this magazine called Out? Sure. Put posters up with Jody Foster's face. Yeah, I remember. And say, when is she going to come out? Yeah.

Yeah, it was pretty jarring at the time. I was fascinated by our obsession with people's sexual. I'm still fascinated by it. It still amazes me that, like, I completely understand why people who are persecuted for, you know, for their sexuality, want to express it and own it publicly. But at the same time, there's this. weird distortion that comes with it where people just become identified by who they fuck or

how they fuck. Well, the big laughs to me in ambiguously gay duo were the villains. Always, like big head, but they're like, what are you looking at? Nothing! Right. That was always what, in the, the best version of the cartoon is the first one because it's really

90% is about the badly animated villains changing very subtle looks that you would never have seen in a filmation cartoon in the 60s. Right, and to get that subtlety. Yes, there was never any nuance to any of the characters.

It's, yeah, I'm going to get you. Oh, I'm going to, you know, but here it's like, so that was, the whole sketch was written around those two guys looking at each other. And so for me, the purest version of the sketch is the first one. After that, you know,

the other joke that was going on in the show in the cartoon was just, just the fine line between homophobia and homo eroticism that you would see in movies like Predator or, you know, where Stallone is a really super macho guy, but he's all the body oil. Or even what Schumacher was doing with the Batman. Well, and then Schumacher was, yeah,

with Schumacher was trying to own, you know, he was trying to make a statement there. So that was, again, about upset. That was about our obsession with sexuality. But the other joke was, you know, this fine line between frat boy machismo and homo eroticism, you know? And so that's going on with Ace and Gary. And as the show, as the sketches continued,

there was more and more versions of like, okay, so now we're going to make the dick car burst into the cave, you know, the lair, but the lair is like a cave and there's two giant rocks. This is actually Michelle's joke, my wife's joke. two rocks position next to each other that are going to look like an ass. And it's going to be a huge laugh. And we did so many jokes like that

that I get why they're funny, but that's not with the intention. That's not the initial intention of the sketch. But back to Frank's question. So this, first of all, it started in prime time because it was on the Carvey show. It started in prime. But the very first one was pretty tame.

It was like he pats him on the ass or they have to grab each other to avoid falling into a pit or something there wasn't it didn't get other than the penis car so I will say this you said how to get stuff by the sensor

so the car was the one big controversy on the Dana Carvey with those sensors and we what they had a problem with was they said the car is okay but it can't be flesh colored

so in terms of its shape it can be anatomically accurate as a penis. Well, it was close enough that everybody got that joke, but they were okay with it as long as it's not flesh-card. But then,

but I, that wasn't good enough for me. I wanted it to be kind of flesh color. So we had J.J. Settlemeyer find a color that he could identify as peach. Bless you, JJ, if you're listening to do this. And we got away with it. Peach. So it's peach, ultimately.

It's not flesh color. We're getting into the distinctions of Crayola. Yeah. It's not something that you would, the color of anything that you would stick up on your, up your ass. I see. Unless you're into sticking peaches up. And so the sensor was okay as long as it was a certain color. The sensor led, I think the censor had to know they were being played.

Of course. But they didn't say a word. They just said, okay, peach. Did you have heated discussions, animated discussions? Pardon the pardon the pun? We had much more stuff going on later when we did more extreme visual jokes at Saturday Night Live. Okay. It reminds me of Frank and Davis's story of trying to get the Golden Shower sketches past the sensors and trying to tell them it's an honorific.

It's something that they do in Asia. Well, we had an expression. Jim Downey, I think, told me, we called it Cannon Fodder, where you would write extra shit into the sketch so that you can negotiate down into what you want. Very clever. And Michelle's joke of the car penetrating the two giant cheeks, they had no problem with that at all, as long as the car was this. certain color. They were okay. This is already Saturday Night Live, so they had

looser standards. Carvey. I don't know if we could have gotten it. I think we could have. But I mean, they were, by then we'd already had the president breastfeeding puppies. Right. They probably figured out, this show's fucked anyway.

Let them drown. Let these people drown. Did you get feedback? You must have gotten feedback from gay viewers and people in the gay community who love the joke. Because it's affectionate. Well, I think they loved the fact They actually loved that we were kind of outing superheroes.

I think there was a faction that was like, yeah, a lot of superhero stuff or action movie stuff is homo or wrong. So let's own that. It was almost like the same effect that the Schumacher thing had. And really, the joke was always on the villains. You know, that was the intent. You did the voice of Bighead? I did, yes, I can't remember.

So you're saying the villains, were the butt of the joke? Oh, Pasternak. They were the butthole of the joke. Well, this goes back to, the homoeroticism goes back to, I mean, ABC put Ann Harriet, who was not a character in the comic books, in the, in Wayne Manor, so that it didn't seem, so that it wasn't three men living together. Oh, is that true? Yes, I didn't know that. Yes.

That's back in 1965 or something? 65-66, because she's not in the books. and it's what, you know, the network said, is a butler and there's a ward? That's a young ward and a single man. We put an ant in there? You know what else inspired A.S. and Gary was a conversation I had with Lauren

because I, long before I ever came up with the cartoon, at some point, we were talking about Batman and Robin, maybe during Lookwell, and he brought up, they were always, there was always an, underlying gay thing with them and I was like 30 and pretty naive for a guy who wrote a lot of dirty stuff and I was like what what do you mean they're just guys what's going on why are we talking about you were just a boy as you said that was like a loss of innocence for you yeah I just that even sexuality even came into the idea of these two superheroes didn't even never occurred

to me at that age but there was a famous book by frederick wordheim oh the seduction of the The Seduction of the Innocent written in the 50s that talked all about that underlying gay themes and many other destructive issues that our children can't be exposed to. And that's pretty close to 66 when the network gets Batman and they get the script. Yes, no, it's definitely close enough. Close enough. I'm certain. Completely in their minds. I'll ask Batman scholars.

Well, it's also, I'm sure you've heard the Lenny Bruce bit about the Lone Ranger. Oh, yeah. I mean, that is as explicit as it gets. Okay, Funsters, we're going to pause it right there because Robert generously gave us three hours of his time, and we have an embarrassment of riches, so we're doing this in two parts, which you've figured out by now. Plenty of goodies still ahead. We talked about Triumph and Mr. T. Yes, and Jesus. The three of us shared our admiration for Charles Schultz and for peanuts, and also Dan got Robert to tell a wonderful, memorable Lorne My Michael's story that also involved Paul Simon, and that is all coming up on part two with the brilliant Robert Smichael.

Fun for All Ages is produced by Frank Santo Padre, Genevieve Sturvins, and Andrew Capone, post-production supervisor Bobby Hutch, social media director Josh Chambers, music by M-I-B-E and Pete Sapina, FFAAA social media team, Michelle Mantiman, Dina Persepio, and John Bradley Seals, logo design by John Tesla. support us on Patreon at Patreon slash Fun for All-Hs podcast. I'm your announcer, Josh Chambers.