Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Universal Horror Films with Author-Historian Gary Gerani Encore

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

GGACP celebrates Halloween month with this ENCORE of an informative and entertaining two-part conversation about Gilbert and Frank's beloved Universal horror classics with historian, screenwriter and author of "Top 100 Horror Movies," Gary Gerani. This week: Directed by Roger Corman! The music of Billy Goldenberg! The trials of Colin Clive! Boris Karloff goes bowling! And King Tut inspires “The Mummy”! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ, built for breakthroughs

with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton cross-training tread plus at OnePeloton.CA. Colossil obsessions Hi, this is Gilbert and Franks, Frank Santopadre, and this is Gilbert and Frank's amazing colossal obsessions. And tonight we are in the daytime,

we're listening in the or this afternoon we'll be talking that covers everything to Gary Gerani return guest Gary Gerani yes yes very happy to be here again welcome back my friend

Gary to people who are hardcore listeners of the of the mini episodes or even the full episodes Gary was recently here for our Twilight Zone anniversary show with Rod Serling's daughter was really cool and the talented Nick Parisi wrote a terrific book

And you did trading card shows for us in the past. Yes, I am the card king. And we were talking off the air about Night Gallery. And I said sacrilege, I said, I didn't like the tearing down, Tim O'Reilly's bar. I didn't think it was good. I know, that's one of the most acclaimed episodes. And I remember back then I didn't like it. I saw it years later.

I thought maybe I was wrong. Nope. Well, you know what you've got to check out? The Messiah of Mott Street, which is another acclaimed. Oh, that's the one with Edward G. Robinson and Sam Jophe. Yeah. And do you like that one? That's another.

That's a good one. I hope you like that one. I like that one I like the original. Is it a pilot or was it done as a TV movie with Roddy McDowell as the spoil pilot? Yes. That's a good one with Ozzie Davis. So interesting that you made.

mention that, because that was the original two-hour pilot for Night Gallery. That's the one who had Joan Crawford. Yes, that was Steven Spielberg's debut as a filmmaker. He did that Joan Crawford episode. With Tom Bosley. And Tom Bosley is wonderful in it. He's the one who gives up his eyes, right, so Joan Crawford can see. That entire two-hour pilot was scored by Billy Goldenberg.

A perfect setup. A wonderful composer that was, as much as I love Bernard Herman and Jerry, all these other great composers, Billy Goldenberg's music spoke to me so directly, and he did a marvelous job with that, because those three stories, they all were very different stories. And the Roddy McDowell was, he was saying, you know, I created this, he was a busy little, buzzy little bee, so he created this little sound effect as his theme, you know, with electronic instruments. So he's just a brilliant guy. So this is the perfect segue.

You're working with Billy on a documentary about his life and his career. Yeah, I was so obsessed with this man's music. And most of the work that he... I mean, he's a famous guy. The Beatles loved him. He worked with Barbara Streisand, and he gave Elvis Presley... Tell us some of the films he scored, too. Oh, he's mostly famous for doing the early Columbo episodes,

which were really remarkable music. But he did feature films in addition to great TV work. He did play it again, Sam. Sure. He did The Last of Sheila. Love that one. Yeah, a lot of interesting, a Busting, which is a good movie, and he did a great score. But his greatest filmed work was really films for television. He was one constant Emmys, a million Emmys for miniseries and Queen of the Star does ballroom,

which he's getting started again as a play. And incredible. And he was Elvis's favorite composer, and when Elvis had his comeback special, Billy was the key guy there. He gave Elvis a number one single again. Very cool. All these years. Streisand, all these people loved him.

And I just loved his music because he did all those made-for-TV horror movies in the 70s. Like Night Gallery, that was like one of the first. And then so many, you know, don't be afraid of the dark with a little gnome creatures. That's Billy. Fear No Evil, Ritual of Evil. The UFO incident. Billy Goldenberg. This guy is brilliant.

I did A Don't Be Afraid at the Dark. Or are you afraid of? I'm afraid of that different. Are you afraid in that dark? That's a different animal. Yeah, yeah. But Billy was such a wonderful guy. The reason I connected with it, not only because you want to meet someone that you respect so much,

I wanted his music because you couldn't get the made-for-TV movies. You can't buy scores with things like that. But I figured if I find the composer, maybe he has copies of his scores. And he did. So I was in seventh. Then I tried to set up the scores with CDs. It was really difficult. So that's why I finally decided I'm going to do a documentary.

about him. That way we'll get the whole story out and all that wonderful music can be played and that's why I'm thinking. And it's still in development or it's still being made I am hoping to have a rough cut, rough assembly on it in 2020 was the deadline that

I gave myself. I've interviewed just about everybody. Tell us some of the people who read it. Oh, Robert Wagner. Robert Wagner when he came over to my house was just so hysterical to begin with he comes over to my apartment, Robert Wagner, right? uh it's a rainstorm he came over anyway because he loves billy so much right who else is in it um oh we got estelle parsons who was hilarious great uh we've got susan clark we've got all kinds of great people be a good guest for this show yes she's a lovely lady and she is sharp and smart we should call her she's done cool stuff and plus her brother had a great body work hey somebody brought up an actor who died recently and how we never thought of him that act

actor Richard Lynch. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was in everything. Yeah, he would have been great. We can't think of everybody. Let's talk about why Gary is here. And you could plug the dock again. Why are you here, Gary?

I was wandering down the street. Let me see if you guys had something to do. This is an October episode, obviously. It's a week before Halloween when we're posting this. And Gary is here to talk about Gilbert's favorite topic in the world. Old monster movies. And specifically universal, classic monster movies. movies. Gary published a book. When did this book come out, my friend?

Oh, geez, about, maybe about six, seven years ago at this point out. Top 100 horror movies from horror movies. My Brooklyn accent is giving me away from Fantastic Press. And you got an introduction by Roger Corman. How did you get Roger Corman to do the introduction? Roger Corman produced a movie I wrote. It's a movie I don't like to talk about it because it turned out really badly. You don't have to talk about it. It's Vampirella based on the comic book character of Vampirella. Oh, wait, who played her? Talisa Soto.

Talisa Soto was one of the Bond, James Bond leading ladies in the later years. And it was on Showtime. They insisted that we have to have an actress who has some kind of credentials, right? But the movie really, yeah. And Roger Daltrey played Dracula,

which was a real thrill because he wrote an original song for it. It's so incredible. I'm going down on the set, and I hear something, Gary, Gary, Roger, just finish the song. He wants you to hear it. Roger Daltry wanted me to hear his song. So even though the movie didn't turn out that great,

it wasn't experience. So you developed a relationship with Roger? And Roger always loved the script. It was a good script, but it was produced on, oh, the bat transformations. It's like, instead of Adam, you know, like Adam McAsela and me, Frankerson, when they turn into bats, they look so cool, this is like, it turns into a bowl of dust.

It shows, awful, awful. You mean to tell me Roger Corman was cutting corners? How could that be? That's hard to believe. We had them on this show. Did you hear the episode we did with him? Oh, no, no. I'll send you the link.

It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. Like, one of his famous stories is they were doing an outdoor shot, and it was nighttime, and they said, we don't have any movie lights. And he goes, well, you got cars, don't you? And they all turned on their headlights. That might have been for that Shatner picture. Yeah. And they lit it that way.

But we got to remember, Roger Corby, even though he's famous as the King of the Bees and all these kind of cheesy movies, he was a brilliant director. His Edgar Allan Poe films Within Some Price Oh yes Beautifully directed. If you ever watch those? Yes, they're gorgeous and they showed

He had real chops as a director. He deserves a lot of credit for that. Now let's get to my universe All right, we're going to go in chronological order here and I only did the sound films. I didn't do, I didn't list, I know Phantom of the operas in the book. We'll reference them a little as we talk about the young.

But I thought Dracula was a good place to start, which came out in February of 30. so we'll talk about the sound films I want to know too how you happen to choose these you chose the big eight right with the exception of I think Son of Frankenstein didn't make it

into the book but sort of Frankenstein did it must be bubbling under the top 100 there's somewhere because it's an important type of I really but let's talk about Dracula which is interesting because Gilbert and I have talked about it on the show obviously we're not the first people to talk about how stagey it is and how static it is

it just looks like a film stage play Some parts are amazing. Some parts are actually creative. And then it looks like, oh, we got to film the play. Well, I know what you're saying about how sometimes that actually does work for the movie. It's almost like a silent movie in a lot of ways. And there is something about the deathless quality of Count Dracula and his castle that you almost are in a slow-moving dream. It actually sort of kind of helps it.

But Todd Browning, you know, really, a lot of people aren't that crazy about the job he did on that. It does look a bit like a stage play, particularly in the second half, because it was pretty much based on the stage play of Dracula. That's kind of what they did. There is the Spanish version. Yes, I was going to ask you about the Spanish version, which we talked about. More cinematic. There are more camera moves. But here's a classic example of what do you think is better, right?

In the Spanish version, they introduced the Dracula. character, all of a sudden, Renfield turns around, and at the top of the stairs is Dracula, and the camera moves all the way up to the stairs to finally, till you get to him, right? Nice, dramatic move. In the original, it's just Lagosi standing there, saying, I am Dracula. No fancy camera moves, nothing, and yet I prefer, well, first of all, Lagosi was so great as Dracula that you could not replace him, and in the Spanish version, it's a different actor. isn't really up to that.

Even though he wasn't their choice, their original choice. Yeah, it kind of got crazy. But, yeah, so there are aspects to what Todd Brownie, that seems stilted, but which actually have a timeless, strange quality that kind of sticks with you. I want to ask you about two things, Gil, and this may be a reason. And tell me if you think this is bullshit, Gary. I read that the stock market crash, in 29, affected the film's budget, and they wound up, now, maybe this is, maybe this is incorrect.

And they wound up, and Uncle Carl made the decision to adapt the play and not the book. And that's one of the reasons that it's a little bit stagebound, or that it was made with less money than they originally intended. You're making a face. No, because you hear that all the time. There's no way they could have filmed the book. I mean, the book is a big sprawling epic. And they had the play to work with, which actually showed how you can. tell that story in a reasonable way

for an audience. So I'm sure the play was mainly what they always kind of had in mind. Interesting. There are parts. There are parts where Todd Browning does get creative with the camera. Oh, yeah. There are great shots in it, and then it'll

go back to a stage play. The best part of it, and everyone has said this, really is the first third. When you're with Renfield, going to the castle, it's almost like a classic fair like Beauty and the Beast getting lost in the forest and coming to the castle. So that has all of the power of the moon.

And the special effects with the glowing eyes. Yeah, well, they had flashlights trying to shoot lights on his eyes so that looked like they were going. But they would miss his eye. It would be on his cheek. And you'd see the flashlight trying to get up to the eye. Well, they later corrected that in the mummy when they do the same thing. They get to the mummy. It's perfect.

You know, the eyes are perfectly lit. So Browning, who would work with Cheney, Sr., wanted Cheney as did everyone despite the fact that Lagosie had triumphed on stage. Here's the whole story there. I mean, Lon Cheney

Sr. was the man of a thousand faces. He was the horror star, and he had done the hunchback of Notre Dame, he had done Phantom of the Opera and all these other weird parts, so he was the guy. But, you know, he died right around that time. He, you know, it was his time had

come. The other main guy was Conrad Veet, who was the I don't know, pronouncing the name I'm Vite, Vite, whatever, but he was the fellow who's most famous for being the bad guy in Casablanca, as Major Strasser or whatever. He had done a horror film for Universal, a silent one

called The Man Who Laughs with the Joker. And yeah, I think that's where... And they had him in mind to play Count Dracula. Didn't know that. And he would have been quite amazing in his own right. Lagosie, who had done the play, had to campaign like

crazy to get that part. Yeah, he had to beg. Yes. And now when you see it, it's like... He's the iconic Dracula. It's like, I feel like if Bram Stoker came back and said, no, he's not right, I'd say, fuck you.

He's better than the book you're right. Yeah, very often these guys will realize that what they created for this guy, I just realized that Ian Fleming admitted, wow, the James Bond you created for the movies is so much better than what I create

because the James Bond in the movies has a sense of humor it's witty whereas it's very dry if you actually The character gets developed Sometimes the creators

are able to appreciate what was done in film Was there an epilogue cut where Van Sloan Edward Van Sloan spoke to the audience? Van Sloan would speak to the audience

also in the original trailer that they did which is pretty much not available too he was like the host who was taking you into this world, a little old professor

Van Helsing. And then he wound up playing that kind of role from a few other, I mean in the mummy, it's almost the same thing. Yes, yes, yes. I find the way the dominoes fall interesting, had Cheney not died, and Legosi doesn't get this part, then they're not considering Legosi for Frankenstein.

Oh, yeah. The only reason they considered it was because Dracula, you know, was a big deal and logical thing, right? Well, thank goodness, we didn't play the Frankenstein monster, and And what happened there is that it was a director, Robert Florey, who was originally supposed to direct Frankenstein. Murders in the Rheumorg, Robert Flory.

That's where he wound up right now. Now, he lost the gig on Frankenstein. And when he was going to do Frankenstein, yeah, it was going to be Lagosie. He lost the gig to James Whale. James Whale is a better director. I think Florey's a good director, but James Welle was really special. and he's the one who found Carloff. I think he saw him

what was it, eating lunch at the studio. They said they saw him in the commissary. Even though they announced Legosi in April of 31. They announced publicly, Gilbert, that Lagosie was going to play the part. Listen, they also announced that Boris Karloff is going to play The Invisible Man.

Right. So they would always make these kind of announcements and then things would do. And I think originally they were planning on the Wolfman in 1932 and I think they wanted Boris Karloff.

It was very, very strange. The Universal, in the 30s, right, they had all their huge successes with Frankenstein, Dracula, the Mummy. But they didn't nail the werewolf correctly. They did Werewolf of London. Which flopped? Which flop.

Now, that's with Henry Hull, who's a very, you know, good actor who made movies with Alfred Hitchcock and, you know, very solid actor. But according to the myth, He didn't want that much makeup done on him. So his werewolf kind of looks more like a bat man rather than a wolf man. It really looked like later on, Nicholson's is wearing identical makeup.

And that's Rick Baker makeup. There you go. I'm sure Rick probably was paying homage to that. Well, I heard that Henry Hull just didn't want to hide his face behind that much makeup. It could have been vanity. Yeah, it very easily could have been that. Or, you know, there might have been other explanations. but the bottom line was

the reason why that movie failed a werewolf has to be sympathetic it's the ultimate character who's a tragic character and Henry Hull played it as an austere kind of oh like you know

like a very kind of uppity kind of guy he couldn't relate to him and when they eventually did the Wolfman years later they completely corrected that mistake and had Larry Talbot as your best friend next door,

an earthy guy you could relate to. So that was, that was. And a lot of people called the Wolfman a horror film noir because it's one of those that just delete characters. Everything just goes wrong and nothing can ever be right for him.

Well, that's true. Well, he is definitely a tragic character. I'm trying to think there wasn't a femme fatale that led him into that. Unless this is the old lady who's the gypsy. But it has a noir. Well, my God, those movies were shot in the studio with those crazy sets and the trees where you could see all the roots sticking out. And the fog machines.

You were in another world. Right, right, right. Like a fairy tale. Back to Frankenstein just for a minute. Now, again, this could be bullshit. But I read that the site of Legosi in the makeup made Uncle Carl laugh. Well, you know what they were doing? Even though they did tests.

They supposedly did test of Lagosi in the monster makeup, in the Frankenstein makeup, on the Dracula sets. It was not the Frankenstein makeup we know and love. I see. That was developed later for Carlo. I heard the makeup, somebody had said, was similar to the Gola. I was about to say the same thing, because that's where Frankenstein came from.

So they made Lagosie up to look like the Golan? Yeah, very strange-looking things. thing, and supposedly that's why he's, I can't play this. Now, the ultimate version that they used was much, much better, you know, is just a smart design.

What Pierce came up with? Yeah, the Pierce thing. Right, right. And even, you have to give Karloff something. It was Karloff who took out the bridge in his teeth so that he could have sunken cheeks. Yes. And in Bride of Frankenstein, when the monster talks, he had to put it back in

because he couldn't talk with it out. So the monster you'll notice when Bride has His cheeks are a little thicker, heavier than they were in the first room. The dedication of Karloff, and when you realize what he went through, you know. Did you know Charidine turn down the part, too? John, supposedly. Wow. That I know what I found.

Someone showed me. Ken could be BS. My friend Alan Ascherman showed me what he thinks was a statue, a head mask of the Frankenstein monster. It looks very much like Carody. Like Carody. Well, you know, Caradine pops up. up in the bride of frankestine. Yes, he does.

And the blind man scene? He's the munched. Can you see? Right. It's a classic kind of moment for him. He sure does. And what's funny about those movies, because

they hadn't developed the skull cap yet, so they had to build, so the head goes from big to smaller, bigger. Well, yeah, those things

always change from film to film, but you're right, the style of makeup during the Jack Piercy, or he would just keep building up on the stuff. Years later, the techniques were so much more advanced. They looked a little rubbery by comparison. There's a difference between something that's handmade and something that's kind of pumped out of a mold. But that's part of, I mean, look at the mummy with that incredible amount of detail on that face.

Poor Karloff, right? He had to sit there and have all that, and then he had to take it off. So quite a commitment. The dedication. Well, yeah, we were talking to Rick about this. We had Rick Baker here. couple of days ago. We're talking about how

after a while Karloff just wore the makeup home because it was less stressful than he would have to get touch-ups when he came back but he didn't have to start

from square one again. I pity the poor people who might see him on the way back from home. So he was spotted in the commissary by Whale as the story goes. He was already an actor

and he was in Scarface he had his own thing going for him. He is in Scarface. He's shot in the bowling alley. Yes! It's great to see Boris call off throwing a bowling ball. It's just...

Very strange. Yeah. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. Let's talk about the mummy. We're moving through these in chronological order. We're going to try to get to as many of them as we can because I'm making Gilbert happy. I can see he's happy.

Yes, he's giving me a handjob under the table. Between that and Universal Monstries? Why should this show be any different? Life is terrific. So Karloff, who doesn't get any kind of billing in the Frankenstein movie, because he's... The question mark, right? He's billed, he's insulted. He's built with a question mark.

And again, this could be BS, too, but I'm hearing he wasn't even invited to the premiere. Is that true? That I don't know. That's what I heard. It would be. Yeah. It could be. You mean, he wasn't invited, because I wanted to keep a mystery.

I have no idea. Because, I mean, why else would they... So Frankenstein is such a sensation that by 32, it's Karloff, just the last name, and it's above the title. Just like Garbo, just one word, right? Yeah, so... He made that much of an impact, you know, that that's all it took, that way. Well, it was a great name, Karloff. I'm looking at the posters last night on the web, and his name's above the title in everything, as well as on the title card.

Meanwhile, his real name is William Henry Pratt. He's a gentleman from England. Of course. And Pratt is a dirty word in England, too. Did you say that to Sarah when we had her on the show? Did you say that to Sarah Carlin off? Maybe. It's a dirty word calling someone a Pratt.

Okay, so you're talking about the Pierce makeup, which is just fantastic. I like it almost as much. I like, we were talking to Rick, about this. I like the Lagosi makeup and white zombie. Yes. Very much. But this makeup is very impressive. Oh, yeah, sure.

I mean, I mean, the amount of detail is just remarkable. I mean, you look at that today and you go, oh, my God. But even, you know, putting the glory of that makeup aside, you talk about the movie itself, the mummy was unusual because Frankenstein was based on a classic novel, as was Dracula. The mummy was an original made-for-the-movies universe. Yeah, we're just going to say that.

The first one not based on source material. I always felt like the mummy was a remake of Dracula. It's so similar. You're absolutely right. Just the same way that the Invisible Man is something of a remake of Frankenstein. You have the same kind of characters, the second male lead who's interested in the girl. Right. There's a parallel between Dracula and the Mummy.

Also, they have the same cast, other than Lagosie. You know, you've got David Manners. Yeah, he turns up everywhere. and they're pretty much playing the same kind of characters so it was almost like they redid you're right the Dracula thing but again Invisible Man is also a reworking of the

formula of Frankenstein you know it's he disappears why mess with it and yet they're such good movies yes on their own you don't you don't think of them as imitations of each other because they were so distinctive in their own way now what

what were the problems that Colin Clive had I think he A lot of problems. Yeah, he, like, went nudge toward the end. I think he died two years after Bride. Yeah. He had a drinking problem. He had, he had issues.

He was originally, was one of the key people, I think the main person that Whale wanted initially to play the Invisible Man. That voice, you would have been hearing instead of Claude Rains. And he played hysterical very well. Oh, yes, yes. It's alive, it's alive. Yeah, right, right, right. And he would have made a good, his voice would have been great as the Invisible Man. I mean, I think they got the right guy, but he was seriously considered for a while.

I heard he was once either on a play or in a movie, and he was doing a dramatic scene, and he broke it down crying, and they had to stop shooting or take him off stage. He was like, crying hysterity. Yeah, he was a frail fellow, emotionally fragile. Yeah, yeah, but a wonderful. And he achieved immortality. Absolutely. So, you know, you have to say to yourself, I'm crazy, I'm nuts, and whatever. And yet, they'll be watching his performance forever.

By the way, you say that the mummy, you point out that the mummy was the first one not based on source material, yet based on recent events. It was based on the opening of King Tuts 2, only a decade earlier. How cool was that, to take that real-life thing and then turned it into an original monster character? You know, it's an interesting performance. He underplays in that movie, Karloff, and yet he's terrifying on so many levels. It's one of my favorites.

When I first saw that movie as a kid... It's chilling in a way that the Frankenstein pictures aren't. I was first thrown by the fact that you only see him with all the bandages and the mummy proper, if you will, just in the first few minutes of the film. And then the rest of the movie, he becomes sort of like a almost like a Foo Man Choo. kind of guy, you know, with the Fez and whatever, very soft-spoken, as you've been saying, but he's not a bandaged

monster coming after you anymore, which is what the later mummy movies always did. Sure, sure. So that kind of threw me. And it was the only mummy movie that went that route. You know, I mean, that actually gave you this kind of different version. How many names

did the mummy actually there was Imhotep. Amin Ra, Oscar. Yeah, yeah, Eddie. Carus was in the cheap ones, Carus. And then we mustn't forget Ardeth Bay. Arteth Bay, which is the name he takes.

Right, yeah, and that was his presentable version of himself. He must have taken his bandages off and taken a bath and then kind of, you know, you still see he's a wrinkled old guy, but that's Ardeth Bay who leads them to dig up the tomb of his lost love. That's where the plot goes. Yeah. I read there was a reincarnation scene that didn't make it into the final film. Well, the leading lady, Zita Johan? Zita Johan.

Oh, first of all, she's such an interesting lady. She's different than most of the actresses. I mean, listen, nothing against Evelyn anchors or any of these other wonderful people. But she had a curious quality. And she was into, in real life, reincarnation and mysticism. Interesting. They had extended scenes of her reincarnations, through the end of the movie

when she's got this mirror in front of her when she shows up there well that scene through that mirror you had seen all of those sequences that they filmed all over the years how she was reborn and they wound up cutting all that because they felt

was shifting the attention to her and away from Karloff and they didn't want to take the chance of lessening him so she you know but she was wonderful I wish that footage would surface. Barry Levinson lists The Mummy as one of his favorite

of one of his favorite movies in the world. This is deep dive trivia. Let's quit. In the six or seven minutes we have left in this one, let's move on to 1933 and The Invisible Man, which you have just talked about. The special effects hold up to this day on that movie. I was just watching

last night. And you know, they never let up because all through that movie this, there's something interesting. That's John Fulton's special effects. But, you know, that's the only universal movie from that horror classic from that period that could kind of pass as a normal movie because it was based on the H.G. Wells classic. And even though he was a crazy, that would very often be shown not alongside the others, but on its own. My father didn't have any use for horror movies, but that one was respectable.

And if you're not a big horror freak, you can watch. it because it's got the old lady from Titanic. That's not really Neward. That's right. I forgot she's in that. Yes, she is.

Now, did Carloff, again, was Karloff the original choice for this part? I read two, I read conflicting things. I read that he and Whale were at odds. It was a weird thing, too.

He was going to also be playing, I think, Calliostro, the great magician. I mean, there was all these other weird. He was attached, his name was attached to all of those projects. Why wouldn't it be at this point?

And, you know, you talk about the parallel similarities, as Gilbert brought up, between Dracula, like, it's almost a remake in some ways. I guess the idea was not to stray too much from the formulas that were working. And as I say, though, each of those films does kind of stand on its own. I heard, like, Karloff, he left Universal, and I guess he was with RCA or whatever. Well, Carloff and Legosi both, you know, were contracted to Universal. But they wound up doing a lot of cheap movies for other companies, too. Karloff's choices were generally better. He would turn up in things like The Walking Dead, which is a Warner Bros. movie.

Oh, and what I can say, I mean, listen, no one's going to take anything away from Frankenstein. Those are great performances. My favorite Karloff performance, have you ever seen The Body Snob? Oh, yes. Oh, my God. We're going to do a whole Valuton show down the road. And in the body snatcher, it's so nice to see Legosi come back. Yeah.

He's great in that. I mean, it's kind of sad because I believe Lagosi was supposed to play the Henry Danielo. Because originally, they wanted Carl off Legosie as equals. But Robert Wise, I think, realized that Lagosie wasn't quite up to it. and Henry Danielle was. So, Lagosso wound up that small role as Joseph, you know. And I remember Karloff sings some song

that's about, you know. That's a spoken one. Oh, birching. Birching, he calls you. Right, because that really was that, based on the reality. Daniel. Oh, what he does in that,

he does almost like a little dance. He's incredible. And Lagosie, very deadpan, goes, I don't understand. what this all means. And he was almost like Chico. It was great.

You know, in a sad way, some have said, well, there you see it, Karlov made it big in the heart. And Lagosie had a struggle. And in that scene, it really looks like, here's the guy that's on top of the world. And the other guy that's, oh, poor Lagosie, right? Back to the Invisible Man real quickly

before we get out of here. And we're going to do another one of these afterward for Halloween. I read a couple of things. I read that Karloff turned it down. I read that Whale wanted a more intellectual voice for the scientists and that he heard Raines being screen tested for another movie. You don't know if these stories are true.

These things are the test of time over the years how these stories have changed. I also read that H.G. Wells was not pleased with the way Island of Lost Souls turned out. He hated Island of Law Souls. So he demanded that they treat his source material with more respect. I think Island of Law Souls is a wonderful movie. We don't know that here. We hope you both love it. That holds up.

That's one of those. I mean, the scene where they're crashing through and getting, like, the surgical equipment. Yeah, yeah. And then you hear, you hear, you hear Morrow. It was Charles Lawton playing Morrow, and you hear him, and they're going, oh, oh, you know, like that crazy scream. Paramount, right? And they had that hot-looking girl who was the leopard. Was it Aquanetta?

Yeah, yeah. It's been so long that I've. I've seen it, but yeah, she was half panther, half human, and she winds up, you know, kind of saving them at the end. She becomes a good girl, you know. If Wells hated that one, it's a good thing he didn't live to see the Brando version of a man. Yeah.

That's a jaw dropper. But my favorite with the Brando version is this one part after Brando is dies or is killed. what's his Val Kilmer starts doing a brand of an imitation. Have you seen the documentary about the making of that movie? Oh God, that must have been the most

insane thing ever made that film because That to me, when he goes into the brando imitation I thought this is where it's officially Completely nuts Yeah, yeah The invisible man is, Gilbert's right, the effects hold up and it's very well made and Reins is very strong and the dialogue

it's so well written it's so crisp everything's clever that funny little hat I always liked it and is it true doing the the kind of sweet stuff and then doing the big you know megalomania even the moon is right and he's

straight into death and it's very good and Claude Rains was a very big Lon Cheney fan and a lot of his moves are like the Phantom of the Opera.

Well, he eventually played the Phantom of the Opera. Yeah. A lot of people criticize his performance there because it wasn't like the look of the original. It was more like a scarred kind of a thing. They were trying to do a little bit more of a realistic approach

at that point. That was Universal's first technical color movies. John Houston and Preston and Sturges both took shots at that script? I'm sorry? John Houston and Preston Sturges both took shots at the Invisible Man script. John Houston also worked on murders in the Rue Mortars in the Rue Mortar. Yeah, that one I knew. Why didn't Raines do the sequel? Why

I didn't he do the follow-up Invisible Man? Picture. What was it, Sir Sidger-Cardwick? Because he was doing things like Casa Blanc? He moved up in the world. Besides, you got, the interesting thing with Raines is that he was a little guy. Yeah. So you have the megalomani of the little guy, like the little Hitler.

He's working for Capra. But then they went the other direction with the Invisible Man returns with Vincent Price. The young Vincent was this big, tall, imposing guy. And that worked, too, in a different way. Okay, we're going to do more of these. We have to get to the Wolfman. We haven't. We got it.

Oh, my God, yes. I'm going in order. By the way, have you seen Ed Begley's parody on Amazon Women on the mood? I think Carl Gottlieb might have written that. So, two of her. He takes his pants. Yes. You can't see it.

It's wonderful. Okay, Gil, we're going to do more of these. We're going to do an actual episode on Halloween, which will be next week's show. You want to take us out with a little bit of the vampire? To die, to be really dead must be glorious. There are far worse things awaiting man than death. Not bad. We'll see you next week.

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