Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Willie Tyler & Lester Encore

Episode Date: September 9, 2024

GGACP celebrates the birthday of legendary ventriloquist Willie Tyler (b. September 8th) by presenting this ENCORE of an entertaining conversation with Willie and his longtime partner, Lester, from 2018. In this episode, Willie (and Lester) discuss the history of the “Chitlin Circuit,” ventriloquism-themed horror movies, the mob’s influence in Vegas and the golden age of “the Motown Sound.” Also: Steve Rossi teams with Slappy White, George Kirby channels Pearl Bailey, Edgar Bergen offers sage advice and Willie opens for Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson and Stevie Wonder. PLUS: Jules Podell! Shari Lewis & Lamb Chop! Don Rickles takes a front seat! Lester meets George Jefferson! And the many talents of Paul Winchell!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It's so gentle. We've never smelled so good. Shop Old Spice Total Body Deodorant now. I'm Tim Matheson and you are listening to the amazing, colossal Gilbert Gottfried's Clef-fucking podcast. Hold on a second. That's the one. That's it. That's the one. That's it. Now I am Tim Matheson and you are listening to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal fucking

podcast. I'll give you a straight one. Thank you, buddy. Hey, I'm Tim Matheson and you are listening to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing Coassel Podcast. Now say fuck. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host Frank Santo Padre and we're once again recording at Nutmeg with our engineer Frank Ferdorosa. Our guest this week is a comedian, actor and world famous ventrilogist and one of the most popular and enduring entertainers of the last 50 years, appearing on TV and in films, headlining in nightclubs and Vegas

hotels and even recording a hit comedy album entitled Hello Dummy. You also know his work for movies like Coming Home and American-thon, TV game shows such as Match Game and Hollywood Squares, and dozens of sitcoms, talk shows and variety shows, including Rowan and Martin's Laughin', The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, The Flip Wilson Show, Sammy & Company, The Merv Griffin Show, The Jeffersons, The Hollywood Palace, Jimmy Kimmel Live, and The Late Show with David Letterman to name a few. As the host and MC of Motown Records' long-running Motortown Review, he helped introduce the world to future music legends

Smokey Robinson, Diana Ross, The Supremes, The Four Tops, Marvin Gaye, and Stevie Wonder. And he would go on to work with and alongside icons like The Jackson, Sammy Davis Jr., Jane Fonda, Steve Allen, Flip Wilson, Lily Tomlin, Muhammad Ali, and John Wayne. Please welcome to the podcast a man whose long and successful showbiz journey began with an ad for Fantriliquism School in Popular Mechanics Magazine, the fabulous Willie Tyler and Lester. Don't forget Lester. Wow, wow, no, he's on the way. He's out.

Oh, he's stuck in traffic. No, he's got his skateboard, he's outside someplace. He's trying to find a place to put it. You like that intro? Yeah, wow, there's a lot of stuff there. As you were saying, as you were talking, it reminded me. Oh, what? That reminded me of all that stuff as you were talking.

Yeah, you've done a lot of stuff, Willie. Yeah, I had forgotten about that. And we worked together, and I can for the life of me. Well, we didn't actually work together. We both appeared on one show. Yeah, we were in a room together, something doing something, waiting for something. I remember that.

Yeah, we were at read through and we said hello. And I first thing I said to you is, where's Lester? And you pointed to a box on the floor and I remember thinking, what a scumbag this Willie Tyler is that he puts Lester in a box. He's a hermit. But you didn't even punch air holes. He's used tomit. You know, he's a hermit. But you didn't even punch air holes. No, he's used to that kind of stuff.

Oh, and my son, my son, eight years old, wants to say hello to you. Oh, he met him in Chiller. Yeah, I met him. I met him there. Yeah, Darra was at Chiller Fest in New Jersey and Willie was signing autographs and Darra walked over there with Max. Yeah, I was signing autographs for Leryl walked over there with Max. Yeah, I was signing autographs for Lester too because I have power for attorney. Oh, very smart.

But you can't figure out what you guys worked on together. Hang on, the phone's going off Willie. That's alright. For the life of me, I just remember sitting in a read through. What if we went through all of Willie's credits on IMDB and maybe something will jog your memory? You know I'm trying to think, well he either had to be here, out in LA or New York.

But I, yeah. My guess it was LA. There are only two places, there are only two places. Is Willie familiar with the ventriloquist act that you and Belzer used to do? Oh, yeah, I used to, me and Richard Belzer used to do a ventriloquist act called Dick and Stinky.

And I'd sit on Richard's lap and he'd go, hey, welcome to the show Stinky and I go this audience couldn't go fuck themselves. It was a blue You know what basically like in my in my act nine out of ten times it's like We don't do expletives, but you know what happens reason why you don't say we won't say that the the f word reason why i can't say the f word because my lips will move oh wow that's great that's great you ever you ever try to say that you say it without moving your lips oh wow yeah that's difficult so do you try to take do you try to take all f words all words that start with F out of the...

No, but it's just that particular word. That's a strange sounding word. Interesting. So, I say, so the only reason you don't say fuck in your act is because of a lips move. It didn't stop Otto and George. So, Gilbert alluded to it in the intro, Willie, but tell us about, I found this fascinating, the ventriloquism school in Michigan. Yeah, what, you were just reading Popular Mechanics or how did this come up? No, I started ventriloqu started to try to fool around with it

when I was about 10 years old, but I was in school one day, elementary school, and in the library they had a magazine, Popular Mechanics magazine. And in that Popular Mechanics magazine, they had an ad. An ad was in the back of the magazine, said, learn ventriloquism. And this particular school,

correspondent school was just outside of Detroit in Grosse Pointe Woods. You know, that's where Ford, the guy that built all the cars, that's where, you know, it's a very affluent area. But anyway, it's like my teacher one day, she, we drove out to the school,

to the correspondent school. We drove out there and the lady, Madeline Mayer, I talked to her and I got a correspondent's course. For $35, I got a correspondence course, and a little thing called a Ventrilo-Aid. You know, it was a little plastic thing, I don't know. You put it in your mouth, and then you say exercises with it, you know, they made it up.

You know, they raised the money. Yeah, Ventrilo, so I got that, and then I got a little, and then I got a Jerry Mahoney character. She gave me a Jerry Mahoney character with the course. Love it. That was before Lester. I love it. Now, now I heard was the Jerry Mahoney doll you got, then was later painted black.

No, no, no. She painted him. She painted him for you. Because she, she made all, she, she had a mail order situation where she sold figures to people all over the world. So she made the figures, she made figures up, she painted them and all that kind of stuff. But she wouldn't put the mechanics in, she sent it to some place, somebody in Ohio, they

would put the mechanics in and they would send them back to her. But she, right there when I went into her house there, out in the little room that she had there, it was outside, it was like a patio. That's where she painted all the characters and stuff like that. It was very interesting. The Fred and Madeleine Mayer School of Ventriloquism. And you had a black Jerry Mahoney. Yeah, she painted him brown for me. And how old were you when you first started taking the course? I think I was about 12 years old when I first started taking the...

Wow! It was like, we would get correspondence in the mail, and it would be like basically every two weeks you get a couple of pages and stuff like that. And she would put little jokes in there too, you know. Now what did your parents think? Well you know when I first started doing this everybody would look at me out of the corner of their eyes. Nobody thought they thought something was was not right there. There was no show business in your family, Willie? No. Nothing?

No, no. My dad worked at Ford Motor Company and my mom, my mom never worked, she just stayed home because there was 10 of us. There was just 10 of us. Wow. My mom, she just stayed home, took care of the kids. I was growing up, my dad, he was a mechanic

and he worked at the Ford Foundry and all that stuff. But what happened was like in Detroit, you're familiar with Showtime at the Apollo, right? Oh, yeah. Sure. Now in Detroit, they used to have theaters around the city. And what happened was like, they would have shows in those theaters.

And it was a situation where they would have the class B movie, they'd show a class B movie, then they'd have the amateur show. And then after the B movie, then they have the amateur show. And then after the amateur show, they would have the professional show. But I would be on the amateur show. But man, if you remember seeing the show time at the Apollo

and you see the audience go after the amateurs when they're on the stage, it's bleak, it's really bleak. Because they heckled them and all that kind of stuff. That was the same kind of situation I went through you know they understood if a guy played a harmonica, and he came out on stage They understood that you know a vocal group came out the other sign Exotic dancer we used to call him shake dancers, but I exotic shake dancer Yeah, yeah when they were come out they understood that but then when the MC Homer Jones I never forget his name Homer Jones because he used to pick me up at home at the house and drive me through He was a he when the MC, Homer Jones, I never will forget his name, Homer Jones, because he used to pick me up at the house

and drive me there. He was the MC. So anyway, he would introduce me and I'd walk out with this little character. Now this is before I got the mayor, Jerry Mahoney. I made up, I Jerry rigged a character out of my sister's doll. I did one of those MacGyvers.

You took your sister's doll. Yeah, yeah. And I would walk out on the stage with this particular thing that was made up of a rubber band, a straight pin and a string. It was weird. And I walked out, as I walked on stage, the audience, they were really voiceless

and loud and stuff. And they introduced me and I walked on stage. You ever seen that, what is that, EF Hutton commercial? Sure, yeah. Remember when EF Hutton talks, people listen. Yes. No, no, they got quiet. Yeah, they got quiet.

But as I walked out and I cleared the wings and walked on stage, the light hit me, it was like nothing. You know, the people were like, they were in shock. Like, what is this? What is this kind of? And then they got over the shock and then they went through, that's when the heckling started, you know. But it was like when you're a 10 and 12 year old kid,

you know, you just kind of, you kind of go through that and this kind of, you know, it kind of gets to you. But, and at the end, what happened was like, it was the contest. So at the end, Homer would line up everybody, the MC, and what he would do is like put his hand over each contestant or each group, and people would applaud or boo or whatever, you know?

Number one, number two, number three. Anyway, when it got to me, it was like a lot of boo, you know? And I would go home every night and I'd say, I'm not going to do this anymore. I didn't want to do this anymore. So what happened was like, but then two weeks later, I did it again. I did it again, you know?

But I kept doing it and then I start winning. I start winning the contest. Good for you. How old are you now when you're doing this? 10, 11? No, 10, 11, 12, 13. Another guy like you, Gilbert, who got on stage as a kid. Oh my god, yeah, first time I got up on stage I was 15. Oh yeah, yeah. Both of you are crazy. Now, now, didn't you also say you remember like Smokey Robinson getting heckled? Let's see. Oh at the Apollo, you said that was a tough room. Oh yeah, no, no, the Apollo. Well, you know, you're from New York. You ever been in Apollo? Oh yeah, I've been in Apollo. You've been in Apollo? Yeah, I've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been in Apollo. Oh, you've been's see. Oh at the Apollo you said that was a tough room. Oh yeah no not the Apollo. Well you know you know from New York. You ever been in

Apollo? Oh yeah yeah. No we used to work there a lot at the Apollo and the first time that I went there was like with when I was at Motown. I got with Motown so we went there with the Motortown Revue, you know, and it was like a little Stevie Wonder back in those days. Little Stevie Wonder. Wow. And Marvin Gaye and Mary Wells, all those folks, on one show. But when you go to the Apollo,

when you go to the Apollo, even entertainers who are very professional and they've been around for a long time, when they would go to the Apollo, they would sweat because they never knew if the audience would accept them or not. You could, they could have a Megan Sellers record, they'd come out there and the audience would heckle them

if they didn't like what they were singing. Then that, you know, that kind of a situation. But it was like, it was a fun place to be though, you know, to go there because it's like baptism by fire. Kind of situation. Yeah, I saw some of the marquees, what you were, and you, this is the Motor Town Review, and you were the emcee. So it's like you, Junior Walker and the All Stars, the Marvellettes, Martha Reeves and the Vandellas, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, for 65 bucks.

For 65 bucks? Yeah, to see the whole show. That was the price on the... 60, no, did you say 65? Yeah. 65. 65 bucks, do I have this wrong? 65, no, that's a lot of money.

60, 65 bucks. How much was it? No, it was $2, $2 or $3. $2? Per person, yeah. I'm stunned. No, no, that was back in the 60s, you know, latter 60s and beginning of the 70s. Incredible, incredible.

I have to double check what I was looking at. You could buy a new car back in those days for $6,000, you know. You know, you know inflation, you know. And you like back then when you were working these places, well, the Jews of course had the Borsch Belt. Catskills. Yeah, Catskills. Tell us about the black entertainers.

What venues they work? Yeah. Oh, you mean the Chitlin Circuit? Chitlin Circuit. Well, it was basically, the Chitlin Circuit was basically, they had some summer resorts, some summer resorts that somebody's performance would work, or just in the neighborhood they would have clubs, you know, just predominantly black clubs and those were the venues that they would work.

If they had a record out, they would go there and plug their records and, you know, be successful performing in those particular venues. You worked with the Funk Brothers and Lloyd Price and people like that. No, the Funk Brothers, well the Funk Brothers were Motown, you know, they did the sessions at Motown, but then they did the documentary. So when they did the documentary, they had the Funk Brothers and they traveled around the country with other acts performing Motown songs. But the Funk Brothers, the drummer was Benny Benjamin, the real Funk Brother, and James Jameson was a bass player. Those two guys, I remember working with them in a little place up

in the Idylwild, Michigan. It was a black summer resort. It was a summer resort but it was black. And Lloyd Price would work up there, a lot of acts would come up there and work for the summer. Mr. Personality. Oh yeah, yeah, you got personality. Personality, yeah, yeah, yeah. You worked at a lot of strip clubs. Well, I didn't work a lot of,

I remember one that stands out a lot is the one in Detroit. It was called the Brass Rail. And the Brass Rail was like, and I remember a particular dancer, she would work that club a lot. It was like her club. She didn't own it, but everybody would come there to see her.

And her name was Lottie the Body. Yeah. Yeah. And she was, she had those little fringes on the back, on the back of her butt right there. Oh yeah. And when she's doing the show, she'd turn to the audience and the drummer, every time she moved, the fringes would jump so the drummer would hit

the top hat each time she would do that you know she would do one time with the left cheek the left cheek the left cheek right cheek right cheek right cheek then both cheeks both cheeks. She was great at that. Whatever happened to Lottie the body? I guess she retired I guess guess. Basically, yeah. She got her 401k. And what were the reasons for hiring the comics? You want to explain that. Yeah, the reason why is because back in those days they had like a live music trio.

Now in Detroit they had the Union. So the trio, they would work X amount of time a night on stage for the dancers. Then they had to take a break because the union, they had to take a break three times a night, 30 minute breaks, three times a night. So the comic would go up and fill in the time while they took their break, you know, and it was like, it's an interesting thing to go there and work a strip joint where the guys come in. Some women would be in there, but mostly guys would be in there.

And they wanted to see the women. And all of a sudden you got a comic on stage, you know, trying to tell jokes. That's rough. Trying to be funny. Yeah. And they would, you'd be on stage and all of a sudden you hear something fall at your foot and they would throw a penny. Yeah.

They would be on stage. They would be on stage when somebody penny. Yeah, they've been on stage. They've been on stage when somebody threw a penny or threw a quarter on stage. That's very, that's insulting. That's very insulting. That's not happening to you, Gilbert. Did you ever work with strippers? You never worked with a stripper or an exotic dancer.

One time I did something for the Hustler Club. Okay. But I never actually worked the strip club. Uh-huh. Now what's interesting, oh another thing too, because it was a strip club, we didn't have a dressing room. We would come dressed, but it was the idea

we would be in the room with the strippers. They had a TV in there, you know, there was a TV in there and then they wanted to strip. I mean, if they wanted to change, they'd go in the back and change. Some would go in the back. Some women would go in the back. If a guy, if the guy was sitting in there,

if the comic was sitting in there. But some women, there's a couple of women, when they came in, you know, they didn't care. You know, you were sitting there, and they never, you would, if they said leave, you would leave. But if they didn't say leave, you sit there and they would change. Because they didn't tell you to leave, so you just sat there and you watched it.

Yeah, you're not going to leave on your own. No, no, you wouldn't leave on your own. I remember when I did this thing at that Hustler nightclub. I wound up sitting there in, oh I think we were filming something earlier in the day, and I wound up sitting there in the dressing room, then the strippers started coming in and changing in front of me and walking around naked and I of course you know I'd still be there. Yeah, she didn't say anything. At one point someone said you know there's a guy sitting there for the past hour.

With a drool cup. Yeah, yeah. So I was asked if I could leave the dressing room. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to be asked. So I was asked if I could leave the dressing room. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to be asked, you know. Nobody says anything. But some strippers would be in there and then when they came in they would look at me and go,

Willie, do you mind? You know, then I'd get up and go out. Wasn't it a stripper or a dancer, Willie, who touched Lester and broke something on him and that was the last time you let anybody touch him? Yeah, it was like being in the dressing room, you know, it's like one stripper was there and she was a very attractive little stripper, you know, and she would ask, she said, how does he work? So you know, it was like kind of melting like butter,

you know, the way she talked to me. Oh boy, oh boy. So I showed her how he worked. You know, I didn't really show, I took her hand and sort of showed her how he worked. And so she put her hand on Lester's controls and what happened was like, and then she took her hand out.

And so it's time for me to go on later. So I go on stage and I'm on stage and I'm talking, then Lester's talking, then I look at Lester and Lester looks at me. And when he looks at me, one eye goes this way. One eye goes that way. You know? So what happened was like, she, instead of like

pulling down on the controls, she pushed out on the control and it broke. But I didn't realize that until I got on stage. So I said after that, never again. Never let a stripper handle your part, Gilbert. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast, but first a word from our sponsor.

Now, you once met, you went out of your way to meet the legendary venture, look with Edgar Bergen. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Edgar Bergen, let's see, yeah, I lived in Detroit until I got over there. But I went across, through kind of the old school, the old school, and I was in the old school, and I was in the old school,

and I was in the old school, and I was in the old school, and I was in the old school, and I was in the old school, and I was in the old school, and I was in the old school, and I was in the old he knew who I was. I mean, I didn't know until I got over there.

But I went across through customs and stuff. Like I had Lester in the trunk, you know. And I was kind of lucky because it was a situation where the customs didn't, they didn't open the trunk or anything like that to see what was in the trunk. They might've thought I was working or something to that effect. But anyway, Lester, I was able or something to that effect, but anyway,

Lester, obviously, but I get through, Lester through there. It was a Wednesday night, and back in those days, the club wasn't really full that night. It was the middle of the week, and back in those days, the middle of the week, weekends were packed, but the middle of the week was kind of weak. And what that was like, I watched his show, and he did a very amazing, the show was very good,

very good show, you know. Cause he had a thing in his act where it was supposed to be raining and he took a pail and he put it on the floor and you could hear the water dripping in the pail. But after the show I went to the major D, I says, Mr. Bergen, is he around? And he says, well, he's right in that room right there.

The guy says, major D says, he's right in that room right there. So I went, you know, and knocked on the door. They were in a little small room, I think he and his wife. And he said, come in. I opened the door and he was in there. They were eating dinner, you know, and I felt kind of bad. You know, I didn't want to disturb people eating, you know, eating dinner. And he looked at me and he recognized me from the TV shows. He said, oh, hey, how you doing? How you doing? He said, come on in, come on in.

So I went in and I started talking to him. And then as we talked, he says, do you have your character? Meaning Lester, I said, oh, yeah, he's in the car. He said, bring him in, bring him in, bring him in. So I went and got Lester and brought him in and he wanted me to do a little couple of things for him. And as I did it, back in those days, what I would do,

when Lester talked, he was animated, Lester was animated. But then when he wasn't talking, I was talking, he was like staring out, he was just staring. Just stationary. like, he's staring out. He was just staring. Just stationary. Yeah, he wasn't even moving. And then Edgar Bergen says, you know what you're doing wrong? He says, you've got to keep him animated all the time.

Even though he's not talking, to make things work, you've got to keep him animated. So basically I learned that from him. You know, when you see Lester, Lester's, even if he's not talking, he's looking at stuff or looking around or looking down and stuff. I love when he does that little thing where he kind of tilts his head toward you,

like get a load of this guy. Well yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we got that from Paul Winchell. Yeah, we got that from Paul Winchell. Paul Winchell used to do that with J.M. Horne. He's like, get out of here. You know, one of those deals. He used to do that with the little character. Tell us about Paul Winchell. Paul Winchell used to do that with Jerry Mahoney. He's like, get out of here. You know, one of those deals.

He used to do that with him. With the little character. Tell us about Paul Winchell. He was a fascinating. I think Paul Winchell inspired Willie to do this. It did because we had gotten our television set, which was a black and white TV. Back in those days, black and white TVs.

And he had a show from New York, coming from New York. And it was sponsored, I remember it was sponsored by Spydell Watch Bands. I remember that was a special. when Joe Mahoney time yeah you know Scotty Waddy Doo Doo yeah It's when Joe Mahoney time it's when Joe Mahoney time let's have some fun hooray hurrah we glad everybody's here come on let us give a cheer for everyone put on your happy faces said and the kids the kids sang that song yes Scotty what do you do

do do do do I watch that show all the time. Yeah, it was like I was fascinated on how you made his little character, Jerry Mahoney and Knucklehead Smith. Knucklehead Smith. Yeah, Knucklehead Smith spelled his name S-M-I-F-F. Yes. Yes, that's a little trivia. And then Paul Winchell did that thing too where he'd paint a face on his chin. Yeah, it was interesting, yeah.

It was, it was, it was, it was, the camera, the camera had to be upside down. Yeah. Because what happened was like he would, he would paint the eye, an eye here, an eye here, and then he would, And a little nose. He would put a goatee here,

and then he would put the body on upside down on his head But when the camera turned upside down He looked it looked like a funny look a weird looking character But it was it was just because you could tell When it when Jerry Mahoney was in the scene also you could tell because when he huge the character was doing under these years You know, it's not like this when he was talking for Jerry Mahoney But Jerry Mahoney was off camera, but that was a very very news. He was a very very ingenious guy You know, he had something to do with the heart. He did the artificial heart. Yeah, and and I heard

They wanted him to take out a patent on it and he wasn't concerned with getting credit He just wanted to invent it. Yeah he wanted to invent it because there was something I guess he knew of a heart surgeon or something to that effect and he wanted to really help him out you know. I think who was that famous heart surgeon? Michael DeBakey or Christian Barnard? Christian Barnard. Okay Michael DeBy, I think was South Africa. Yeah, I think one of them was Barnard. One of them was.

Like, Paul Winchell just wanted a help. Yeah, yeah, he just wanted a help because either that or he had somebody in his family had heart problems or something that was something personal about it that he wanted. He was a brilliant guy. He became, of course, a famous voiceover guy. Oh. Dick Dasterdly and Mutley and everything. All these characters for Hanna Barbera for years. Yeah rubbing bubbles, those bubble things. Oh yeah sure. Scrubbing bubbles. Oh my god yes.

A million things that are not even coming to mind now. Yeah he was uh what was the name of that villain um. Did he have a goatee? Did he have a mustache? He may have. The villain, the villain. Who? You mean Snidely Whiplash? There was Snidely Whiplash and who was another famous villain? It was Dick Dastardly who I just mentioned. Dick Dastardly, oh, okay.

You know, from the Wacky Racers. Yeah. Oh, he was in everything. Yeah, he did a god. Real talent. I heard that Winchell, he was brilliant, but he had a terrible upbringing. Well, you know, I don't know. I think what happened, he had some problems with his siblings, with his kids. He suffered from depression, I know. Well, who doesn't? Yeah, who doesn't? Yeah, who doesn't? And his mother was supposed to be

like she was a little psychotic and that wore on him. Well that could be but you know you look at the celebrities nowadays and if you look at the backstory you know it's not it's not rosy. Especially funny people seem to come from the most damage. That's true, that's true. But he was... Oh, go ahead. No, no, and you know, entertainers, entertainers, when they're doing live performances, the ones that do live performances, and singers,

you know, you notice that they never retire? They never retire unless they have to retire. Because there's something, you probably even know about this. You know, something about walking out, and somebody's something, you probably, you know about this. There's something about walking out and somebody introduces you, you walk out on stage, the light hits you and you hear the applause and then you start up and then you get reaction from the audience, that makes you feel good.

That's like a high. You know, you feel good about that. Then when you come off, you feel good. And it's like, even some nights, if the show didn't go the way you really wanted to go, like some days when I was growing up, it didn't really go the way I wanted. When you come off, about five or six hours later,

you feel good because you did go out. You did go out and you went through that ritual. You feel that way, Hilbert? Does it energize you? Yeah, yeah, there is that thing, because like, I always say this, right before I go on, I'm praying that the manager will come back

and say we had a fire or a flood and you can't go on, here's your check, go home. But then after I do it, I go, okay, I did that. Yeah, and you're fired up. I mean, do you have that high where it's hard to come down? Well, that is, yeah. It's sometimes, sometimes, go ahead. No, it's that funny thing like,

when I get off stage, my adrenaline's going and I have that understanding too of like, you know, then I'm by myself in the hotel and I'm still got my adrenaline and I understand why these performers want to do drugs afterwards. Yeah, some do, yeah, but it's something about being in front of people, you know. It's freaky. Gladys Knight and the Pips. The Temptations. They were doing shows and they had hit records and stuff like that.

But before they would go on stage, they would all hold hands and they would say a prayer. Wow. Because you never know. You never know what's going to happen when you get out there. You know, it can be turned around on you. Yeah, it's like the first show can be terrific and then the second show horrible. Well, yeah, yeah, that's true. And I just want to get back to Winchell for a second, but he was a nice guy to work with. Well, yeah, the matter of fact, you know, when I got out here to California,

because the reason I came out here was due to laughing. The last season, the last season laughing. But anyway, I had moved out here and then somehow another we hooked up. He was doing he did a thing where he was gonna do a thing where they're gonna say, where are they now? Like Jerry Mahoney and the Knucklehead Smith, what are they doing now? And Knucklehead Smith was an executive for CBS.

You know? And Paul, and Jerry Mahoney was, he was something else. But what happened was like, it was done on Sunset, some club on Sunset, but he had me as a guest, you know, and I had a guest spot on there where we sat at the table and they filmed this, you know, they taped this. We sat at the table and Lester would talk a little bit, blah, blah, blah, that kind of situation.

So it was like, made me feel good to know that this man, my mentor, you know, took time out to put me in one of his movies. Quite a journey that you're a kid watching him on TV and now you're working with him all these years later. Yeah, and he was a nice man. Some people would say, cause you probably run into this too,

where some people will say things, you might know somebody and somebody else will come up saying, ah, I hate that guy, I don't like that guy, but that guy doesn't like me. But basically you get along with him, but it's the idea you wonder what happened when this particular person doesn't like this particular person.

But you know, that happens. And with me, another thing too, I work with a lot of, you know, super, like Ann Margaret and- Oh yeah. Just like John Davison, you know, Sammy Davis Jr., all those folks, you know, I work with them.

And I would always give them the space. You know, some people when they're doing their opening act, they kind of get, they kind of bogart in on the headliner. I would stay away because I didn't want them to be mad at me. Well, I didn't want to know if they had an other side. I didn't want to know the other side of them. Because one time we were working in Las Vegas and I was working with Sanry Davis Jr. and back in those days they didn't have TVs, the monitors, where you can see the stage, see the acts on stage. They had just the audio.

You could hear the audio. You could hear that show in the dressing room from what was going on on stage. So I would go back when he was on stage, when I'd come off, he'd go on stage, and then when I'd come off, I'd go and sit with his people in his dressing room, and then I knew it was the end of the show because he would do that Mistable Jangle.

Do do do, you know Mistable Jangle. So I knew he was coming back to the dressing room. So one night I was late because I was talking to somebody. I was late getting out before he got in there. So I was getting ready to get up to go out. He was coming in and as he was coming in, he was all sweaty from being on stage and stuff. And as he walked in, he says, wait a you know, being on stage and stuff and as he walked in, he says, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute,

wait a minute, where do you go? Where do you go? I said, well Mr. Davis, I just, you know, I want to give you your space, he said, stick around, hang around, hang around. So you know, from then on, I'd hang around. But you know, again, you've probably known some performers, they just want their space.

They don't want to talk to people. How did you like playing Vegas, Willie, when you were opening for Ann-Margaret? Vegas was nice, yeah. Vegas was, Vegas was, a lot of entertainment status, but Vegas was pretty, it was cool back in those days. I mean, it's good now, but back in those days, it wasn't as big as it is now.

Back in those days you could get into the Riviera, you can come out of the Riviera Hotel, get in a taxi, drive down the strip to the uh to the Caesar's in three in two minutes, three minutes, three minutes you could do that you know. But now it's like it's just it's a different different world. Now were there still the mobsters there when you were working? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was basically, well, it's not like a secret or anything like that. No, no, we ask all the performers we've had on the show work Vegas in those days, what their relationship was with the mob, if they got on. Every performer has said to us, and others I've read about, they loved working for the mob.

The tree campers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because what happened was like, in the dressing room, like I worked, some of the casinos that we worked, when you got there, your name was on the door. And the name was like, it was carved out of a particular kind of a plastic. And people had to go out of the way to carve your name. It wasn't like a thing that was thrown together. And it was on the door.

And what happened, one thing about Vegas, you know, when I used to get there, I got there the day of the show, I would always get there the day of the show, you know, to do sound check, you know, because your name, along with the headliner, would be on the marquee, you know? So when you come from the airport and you're driving, or you're driving into town,

you look up and your name is on the marquee. But what I would do, I always wanted to try to get out of town before the last night of the show, because I didn't want them, I didn't them to see him taking my name off the mark. Wow! That's great. But did you have dealings with the mobsters? No, but I don't know. A lot of nightclubs. All over place. Well, you worked at Copa with the infamous Jules Podell. Yeah, Jules Podell, yeah.

I mean, the night clubs are all over, in Detroit there were a lot of night clubs, because they were the ones that could be able to get the liquor licenses and stuff like that, you know? But it was like, it was cool. I mean, it was just a fun place to work. I mean, you never saw anything going down or anything

to that particular kind of situation. But I remember one night I was working in this particular club and it was a Monday night and they had a band there and it was a little club in Detroit and this woman was walking to the restroom and evidently she had words with another woman sitting at a table. So when she went to the restroom, she came back out

and then they got into a fight. And then the men got into the fight. And then they got, one guy wouldn't stop. So they had to take the guy and put him out, take him outside. They took him outside and stuff like that. But they took him outside and locked the door. The guy broke the door down and came back in.

You know? And then- Unbelievable. Then they had to take and locked the door. The guy broke the door down and came back in. You know? And then. Unbelievable. Then they had to take him back out again. Then they finally called the Detroit police, the police came, you know, stuff like that. But, and then I remember Joe, Joe was like the bartender and Joe was, you know,

he was trying to show like that he had things under control and he, he, he, that's cause he had a gun under the bar and the gun went off by accident. It's shot in the floor. But everybody went under the tables and everything like that. There was like a lot of excitement going on then. Weren't you in a club performing and then and you heard gunshots going off in a balcony? No, no that was we were working there's a Motortown Review. Oh and it was in a balcony? No, that was we were working there's a Motor Town Review. Oh, and it was in the theater? It was it was in a Coliseum it's called the

Carter Baron. Yeah, the Carter Baron. Was that in Philly? No, no. It was in Washington, DC. It was a big gigantic arena. It was old and the sound was bad. The sound was it was just a bad place to try to put on a show. You know, it was like, but it was some reason or another when we got there, on the bus, we all got off the bus, came inside, we did sound check and everything like that. And doing the sound check, it was just the sound was just bad. You know, and I'm saying to myself, this doesn't, something about this, it doesn't seem right. This place has got some bad vibe, it's bad, you know?

So anyway, that night, the show started, and then the Martha Reeves and the Vandellas, and I still had that feeling, you know? And then the Martha Reeves. The bad feeling. Yeah, the bands up there, and Martha Reeves and Vandellas, they went up, and they start doing their thing, excuse me,

and as they were doing their thing, you heard shots coming from way up high, shots. Now Choker Campbell, he was the band leader back in those days. Now I'm backstage, well it's one of those stages that they put up with platforms, you know, platform where you can stand under the stage, you can look up at the entertainers

while you're standing under the stage almost. But I'm watching the band, and I'm watching Martha Reaves and the Vandellas, the shots go off, and without any hesitation, Chocobo Campbell just stopped the band. He stopped the band, he grabbed his music charts and stuff like that without

even looking. He just walked off the stage and of course the band followed, the Monteries and the Vandellas followed and that was the end of the show. That was that. Because you can't do a show with people shooting. What did B.B. King call those clubs? Bucket of blood. Bucket of blood. Wow. Those are like the little small clubs.

Now, we jump around a lot here, but going back to the strip clubs, you said they were really strict, even though it was a strip club, really strict about doing dirty material. Language, yeah. Yeah, language. It was a very, very strict club. I mean, back then it was that way. Even the strippers, the strippers couldn't... Like nowadays, I guess, what, strippers, they use the pole and stuff like that? Oh, I wouldn't know, Willie. You know, climbing up on the pole. Oh, yeah.

Trust me, we know. But it's like, but they didn't have a pole back then. But back then, the strippers had to wear pasties. You know, pasties. Sure, sure. You know pasties. Yeah. They had little band-aids that they put on.

Right. And they couldn't be nude. And nowadays, strip joints, I think strip joints, I haven't been to a strip joint lately, but anyway. But they don't wear as many clothes as they did then. I remember one little club in Detroit, this little lady, she was French. And she would go on stage.

And the stages used to be behind the bar, you know, where's the bar. The people could sit at the bar and look at the stage, you know, and people would, and they had tables behind, you know, in the rest of the club. But what happened, this little lady, a little French lady, at the end of her show, her, I don't know, her signature thing was when she finished, she would turn to the audience,

because she had this bikini on, and she would flip the bikini down. Just flip it down and flip it back up. That was the closer kind of situation. But one night, the Vice Squad was in the kitchen. They were in the kitchen. You can always tell the Vice squad guys because they were wearing suits They would come in with suits. They were coming in with suits on I mean and and they were back there talking to the manager and

They were standing they were standing in such a way where they could see the stage you know they could see the stage and then she She finished and she flipped the bottom and then they went nuts. When she came off and they were ahead, they were in the back, they were talking to us and you shouldn't, you're not supposed to be doing that, not doing that kind of stuff, you're not supposed to be doing that kind of stuff.

So that was back in the days when they did stuff like that. Incredible. I remember like there were a few strip clubs where they had a law and the law was was stated that the nipples have to be covered so the strippers would take a little piece of saran wrap and cover it so you could see the nipples but legally what were yours covered with? But it was a thing of legally, they said, has to be covered. So they were covered.

You'd probably use gaffer tape. Yeah. Were those mob-owned strip clubs, Willie? A lot of clubs were. I mean, it's like what Tony, we had Tony Sandler here from Sandler & Young. And he was telling us We found it interesting too that the mob wouldn't allow profanity. They had an issue. They had an issue with profanity Yeah, you could kill people

Yeah, keep it clean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you couldn't matter of fact the brass rail was oh boy There's a guy who there's a guy who owned the brass rail His father passed away and he took over the club and I cannot think of his name but he wound up going to jail for insider trading. I can't think of his name. Wow. He was like, uh, it was big. It was all over the states where this particular guy, Norman, Norman, Norman, Norman, no, Boski. Oh, Ivan Boski. Ivan Boski.

That's a big name. Ivan Boski, he owned the brass rail. Oh, Ivan Bowski. Ivan Bowski. That's a big name. Ivan Bowski, he owned the brass rail. Wow, there you go. And now while Gilbert heads into the Nutmeg Kitchen to steal more Perrier, a word from our sponsor. I just wanna be like Gilbert Gilbert and Frank I just want to be like Gilbert Gilbert and Frank

And now we return to the show. Speaking of policing clubs, wasn't there a story about Sammy, somebody giving Sammy a hard time at Jules Podell's club at the Copa? The Copa didn't have a stage. They had a little platform for the band, but the performer stood right on the level of the floor. And as you go back, they had little tears there for the tables, the performers.

Anyway, they had a noisy table there one night, and they were noisy, so what happened was, like, the guys in the tuxedos would go over and say, can you hold it down, please, Mr. Davis? You know, he's performing. And they'd go back, and the people kept talking and talking and talking, and they'd go back again, and they would say the same thing.

And they did it so many times, and they had, he had one, so they had the bus boys come over and pick their table up, because they were in a round table, a big round table. They had them pick the table up, and they took the table out. So they were sitting there, just removed their table. that means you know when you're sitting there without a table that means you're gonna leave. Yeah.

You're gonna leave because you know why sit there you know no drinks and face in each other. And Jules Podell used to tap that ring right on the table. He had a very big ring. That big heavy ring. Yeah. Yeah, he had the big ring. What he would do, he would sit by, when he was there, he'd always sit by the cash register because it's the lady that did the cash register thing, but he there's a little seat there. He would always sit right by her as the waiters and as the food came in and out. They had some nice food. The food was phenomenal. There was a phenomenal food, you know. It was a good venue to work. The Copa. You said that at one point you took up smoking

Because it seemed like the thing to do. Everyone around you was smoking. What happened was that I was in Air Force. When I was in Air Force, I started smoking. I went in Air Force when I was I was in the Air Force, when I was in the Air Force, I started smoking, I went in the Air Force when I was 18. But what happened was like, I started smoking in the service because everybody else was smoking. But I didn't really inhale. But what happened was like, a scary time in New York, I was working the Copa and I was smoking,

each night I'd go there, I'd smoke, I remember smoking a cigarette, smoking cigarettes, and I would eat, I remember smoking cigarettes, and I would eat, they had the food, I got a Chinese dinner, the Chinese food, shrimp fried rice, phenomenal, great, you know? And I would drink rum and coke, rum and coke. And then I stayed, I think I stayed at a place

called the President Hotel, 48th Street and 8th Avenue. That's the President Hotel. Probablyth Street and 8th Avenue. Probably not there anymore. No, it was across the street from Mama Leon's. Mama Leon's was right across the street from there. We're not far from there right now. And what happened was like, one day I was walking down the street,

and as I was walking down the street, I got dizzy. You know, I got really, I got dizzy, and I said, oh no, not in New York. I can't pass out on the street in New York, no no. Somebody will roll you. And so that night I went and I didn't drink the rum and coke, I didn't eat the Chinese food and I didn't smoke cigarettes and then that particular first show, that first night that I did the shows, I instead of, back in those, I used to stand up and put my foot up on a chair,

and Lester would sit on my knee. And, but I didn't want to feel dizzy on stage, so I sat, I sat down, and I brought the mic down, and I did the show for the next couple of days that way, till that dizziness thing went away. But it was like, it was kind of freaky. It never came back, but it was just weird that something like that, but I did stop drinking rum and coke and I stopped smoking

So but I went back to the Chinese food, but it was Did you say Lester had the Lester had the big hair then he had the afro and you said it would get from come home smelling of smoke Yeah, it's like but you couldn't get the smoke out of the doll no because back in those days You know in night clubs, people smoked. Yeah. And if people who didn't smoke had to sit and, you know, and all that smoke. And I would work, some clubs didn't have

what you call a ventilation. Only time they would vent the place was like when the show was over, they would open the doors, and the big doors, or the fire doors, and let all the smoke out. But every night, Lester would be there, and then the next day I'd be home, then I maybe was changing his shirt or something like that.

I'd open the case, and as I opened the case, all this smoke smell would come out, because the smoke was in his hair. Yeah. From the club, from the environment. By the way, Gil, a little trivia for you. Did you know Stu Gillum started as a ventriloquist? Oh wow.

I found that in my research. Stu Gillum was a ventriloquist and I found out, see he was a very good actor. Yeah, yeah, late Stu Gillum. Yeah, what happened was like, the reason why he went away from the ventriloquist thing because he had some dental work done. And somehow or another, see when it ain't,

well, he probably had to have it done, but sometimes people say, when it ain't broke, don't fix it. But when he had that dental work done, something happened where he couldn't, he couldn't do that anymore. Interesting. So it's like, that's why I'm very careful

with particular things that people say to me, well, you know, you gotta get this, maybe get this, we'll put the implants in here. Yeah, yeah, you don't mess with it. No, no, no, no, no. Oh. You know what's funny, to bring back, like I remember when people smoked everywhere,

and on planes, which was crazy, because it's an enclosed space, but you'd have smoking and non-smoking sections. So you'd be sitting across from someone smoking. Ridiculous. Yeah, but the idea was, the smoking was in the back. So if you were sitting in the no smoking zone up front, not in first, you're not in first class, but I mean up front, it was like the idea,

it's like you get up to go to the restroom, and as you went to the restroom, you walked through all this cloud of smoke, get back there, you know. It's amazing that people had fire in their hands up in the air with all that fuel. Oh, insane. The gasoline, all that fuel.

Looking back. Amazing. I remember a story that, well, did you ever work with Sherry Lewis? Sherry, Sherry Lewis, we did a thing with Sherry. What's that Steve Allen thing? Yeah, vent event. Yeah. No, no Was that Steve Allen thing? Yeah, vent event. Yeah. No, no, it wasn't.

Yeah, the vent event. It was done out here. Out here with Jay Johnson. Jay Johnson from Soap. Remember him? Oh, yeah. In the ventriloquist act. Edgar Bergen was there.

Jimmy Nelson, Danny O'Day. Danny O'Day. Danny O'Day and Farfel. And we did it at the mainstay. N-E-S-D-L-E-S. And we did it at the Mayfair. And he is the LES, Huh? Nestle's Oh yeah, yeah. It is the very best

Chocolate. Chocolate. Huh? Yeah. And it was done at the Mayfair theater here. I mean, yeah, in Santa Monica, it's no longer there. But it's like, that's what he did. And at that particular time,

when we're filming the HBO special, what's it, the Venti's it, the Venti event, when we were taping that, they were filming in Burbank, they were filming the movie Magic. Oh, the Anthony Hopkins movie about fratricide. Wow, and Anne Margaret. Right, Anne Margaret, sure. And Burgess Meredith. Burgess Meredith.

Very good. Right, right, right, right. Very good, Gil. And it was written by Stephen King. No, no, right, right, right. Very good, Gil. And it was written by Stephen King. No, no, no. I think it was written by William Goldman. Oh, William Goldman, yes. William Goldman, yeah.

William Goldman. It was William Goldman. Yeah, and what happened was like, the night of the taping, when we had the audience there, we were taping it, the producer of Magic, I mean, director of Magic. Richard Attenborough.

Richard Attenborough, he came there, he was in the audience that night. I guess they wanted to come and see what Ventriloquist did because they were doing a movie about Ventriloquist. Yeah. That's a good movie. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good scary movie about Ventriloquism.

Like the Ventriloquist dummy is made to look like Anthony Hopkins. Yes. So it makes it creepier. You know like when they did the Twilight Zone, you know, they did about two or three ventriloquist stories. Yes! One with Mickey Rooney. Oh and the other with the guy from Spider-Man. Cliff Robertson.

Cliff Robertson. Yeah. No, it wasn't Mickey Rooney though. It was uh, I think it was Mickey Rooney No, no, I'm my wrong. I I There's definitely one with Cliff Robertson. Mickey Rooney was in the one where he said jockey and he wants to be big. Oh Yeah, this is another guy. I can't think of it. All right, we'll figure it out. But what happened was like they had a If you watch those movies is like that particular they use the same character in all the movies You know when Cliff Robinson's back. Oh, yes, they're the same character right put him they put him in storage

I guess you know and then pull him out of central care casting when they came when they came to ventriloquism Ventriloquism again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you ever see the movie dead of night? There's a Michael Redgrave. There's another ventriloquist story. Yeah, that's a black. It was a black and white. Black and white. From England. Yes, that's a good one. I thought it was Mickey Rooney. I must be wrong. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. I think it's a guy. The guy. okay, Superman 1. Uh huh. The guy who ran the paper. Oh, you are right, it's Jackie Cooper. Yeah. Wow! You are right.

Wow! Good man, good man. Why did I think it was Mickey Rooney? And was he talking in an Irish rogue? No. I remember there was one where the guy... There were three movies, but maybe not the ones we were talking about but they always use ventriloquism and horror stories Yeah, it always shows up always showed up in those horror anthologies. There's always a ventriloquism story now an evil dummy

Um, I what I remember about Sherry Lewis. She said Her father was a magician Mmm, and he would take her on the road with him. And there was actually his opening act was a black ventriloquist. And that guy, they'd sit by traveling together, he started teaching her as a little girl. He taught her ventriloquism. Oh, and it led to lamp chop. Interesting. A little sock, yeah.

Yeah. There's a ventriloquist back in the turn of the century, back in the days of vaudeville, black ventriloquist. He had several, I can't remember his name, but he had several characters. We had, they were characters. They were all on some kind of a little platform where he could operate operate a mall by just standing in one spot kind of situation. I can't remember his name, but he was good. Von Real was good, good day. Good days.

Now here's something that's really strange to me like The same way we used to have mimics Years ago Frank Gorshen rich little will Jordan now all those guys Are George Kirby? Yeah, so many I love George Kirby. Oh, yeah, and he did pro his pro Bailey Oh my god, he did all of the female Yes on the copycats. Yeah, he would do like yeah. Yeah, uh and he would do that What elephant sure sure sure? Well, you were saying it's a dying art. Oh, yeah, well, it's like so ventriloquism and mimics and

comedy teams, they all disappeared except for Vegas. And magicians a little bit too. Yeah, magicians too. In Vegas they're still popular, but on regular TV I grew up watching all of that. So many. Oh yeah, yeah. On the Ed Sullivan show too. Of course.

Oh yeah. Senior Wences. Senior Wences. Uh huh. Well weren't they telling you it was passe way back then, Willie, when you first started? They were telling you that ventriloquism was? Well again, when I was doing it,

it was like people just wondered why I was doing something like that because they were saying, why are you doing that? You know, that kind of situation. That's why a lot of, you find some people who are really successful in business, what you have to do, if you listen to what everybody says, that can like, you know.

Of course. Deflate what you're trying to do. So what I would do is like, you put blinders on. It's like blinders, and people saying stuff, people saying stuff, negative stuff, you know? And you just, you let it bounce off. Yeah, follow your bliss, man. Yeah, because if you listen to that,

you wouldn't get anywhere. That kind of situation. The last place impressionists are appearing is on this podcast. Oh, that's right. We had Marilyn Michaels, Will Jordan, and Rich Little. They were all here. Yes, Oh cool!

On this show. And you are our first ventriloquist out of 200, Willie. Oh wow. Out of 200 guests. Wow. And speaking of which, has Lester arrived yet? I think, let's see. Has he checked in? Yeah, I gotta, I gotta, I'm gonna step out.

Yeah. I gotta get. Yeah, see if you can bring a... Wait a minute, I'll keep this on. Out having a cup of coffee or what? Bring him in. No, wait, no, he's, the doorknob, the doorknob is too high.

I gotta. I gotta. I gotta. Lester is going to join us. Okay. Here he is. You okay? I'm okay. What's this? What's this? There's a mic. Okay. Alright, here he is. You okay?

I'm okay. What's this? What's this? There's a mic. Can you guys see me? Lester, we see you. How you doing? I can't hear.

Oh, I'm sorry. Willie's putting headphones on Lester now. And Lester has a baseball cap. He's got a baseball cap. I appreciate that you brought him his own headphones. What are you doing there? Hang on, you got an hour? Okay.

Hang on a second, I gotcha. I just realized that he's putting headphones on Lester. Oh, here we go. There we go. There we go. We got it. Fantastic. Lester, can you hear us now?

Huh? Oh, hey, say something. Go ahead, Gil. Yeah. Hey, hey, hey. Gilvin. Yes? Hey, hey, hey. Gilvin. Yes. How you doing?

Hi. How are you Lester? Who's in there, Frank? Yep, that's me. How you doing? How you doing Lester? I'm doing fine. I'm fine.

I can hear you. I can hear you. We had a question for you. You enjoy working with this guy all these years? Carrying him the way you have? Yeah, he's cool. He's my right hand. Willie, go ahead Gil.

You got a question for Lester? Lester, do you remember the time that your partner, your heartless partner threw you into a trunk and threw you on the ground? Yeah, that's the story of my life. Story of my life. I was born in a suitcase, though. Then that group called the Men at Work. Yeah, Men at Work.

They did a song about me called man in the suitcase really I wish we are we are keeping at Berg Edgar Bergen spirit alive by doing ventriloquism on an audio medium that was one of the things I noticed with Edgar Bergen. He was a ventriloquist on radio, which was like being a magician on radio. And when you see him on TV, I guess he was so used to radio, his mouth would be moving like crazy. Well, you know, I talked to him. You know, we talked about this. Just put the, look, back on, in radio, there were scripts. You know, Bob Hope, everybody read scripts.

Yep. Excuse me, but when you're doing, when you're doing radio, you're not, it's not like TV where you can see and hear. On radio, you could only hear. So he had to articulate. In other words, when sometimes when ventriloquists say particular things, they don't say, like, they don't say the boy went to the store. They say the boy went to the store. And on radio, if you're hearing the boy went to the store, I mean, it's like, the people listening said, what?

Oh, I see. That's interesting. So he teed it. He moved his lips. So all of those scripts, and he became popular and stuff like that, and by the time television came along, it didn't really matter. He moved his lips, but it didn't matter because Charlie McCarthy and Mortimer's nerd, everybody loved them. I love that. How did I know that?

Lester, how old are you, by the way, now? I don't know. Saul Neal't know that. Lester, how old are you by the way now? I don't know, Sony Olden in Counting Line of Rings. Is there a story Lester of Willie losing you or misplacing you, Lake Tahoe? Is that Ring a Bell? That's what it's Lake Tahoe, but there's another story. There's another story quick, because we're talking about New York, you guys in New York? Yeah. I had gone someplace and I was taking a bus to come back. It was over in New Jersey or something, but I was taking a bus back to right down on 8th Avenue

or something like that, where they had the bus station someplace near the post office or something like that. But anyway, I got to the bus station and I got out and my bag was underneath the bus. You know, you know, you put the bags under because you're a big bag. So I got up and I got, I reached down to get my bag. I got my, I got the bag, I pulled it out and I started walking with it and I looked at it and it wasn't my bag. It looked like my bag, but it was my bag. Lester was in that bag. You didn't tell me that, man.

No, wait, wait, wait, wait. So, um... What happened was like a situation where I started to walk. I figured if I walked real fast, maybe I can find the person. Maybe I can find...oh. They dressed good. Thank you. Thank you. The mic in front of...

Yeah, you couldn't hear me. Make sure we can hear Lester. Thank you. Thank you. Mike in front of us. Yeah, you couldn't hear me. Make sure we can hear Lester. There you go. And so what happened was like I was going to go down the escalator and a lady was coming up the escalator with the bag. She noticed it was the wrong bag. So I was lucky enough that day to get my bag and she got her bag back.

Imagine her surprise if she'd open the bag. well, no, I had it locked. Oh good I went on in the suitcase. I put the lock on that chain thing on I got a chain thing on that and inside Yeah, you need privacy. That's inside. That's an inside story Can I ask the two of you? Do you have some small bit from your act that you could do for us right now? Let's see. I thought we were doing it. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Now what happens, you know, growing up and working those particular clubs we talked about doing, what we would do is like, we would never have a, like the Apollo place like that. You couldn't do a prepared act.

Like for example, Bud Abbe and Lou Costello, they did Who's On First? All scripted, yeah. Now, they're scripted, but when you've got hecklers and people like that, you couldn't do anything like that. Because you had to do little pieces of things because if you interrupted, you would ad lib and then come back to something else. And so basically, that's what basically we would do.

And the kids at the Apollo, some days when there wasn't like a lot of people in there, some kids, they would let the audience stay in for the next show. And so if, they would know your jokes. And so if they would know your jokes, the second show they know your jokes, and they would jump on the punch lines before you would jump on the punch lines. So we always had to play a game with them.

Wow. So you always had to be different. Yeah, yeah, but I'll tell you something, I got something here. I went down to Florida. Florida? Florida, yeah. You know when you go to the beach,

I went to the beach and you know what happens? You see those women in those dating suits? And they do, they move real fast with their booty. What is that called? That's called, that's called twerking. Twerking. Huh? Twerking.

Oh, okay. Can't, can't you say that? No, no, no, I can't say that. Why can't you say twerking? Because your lips will move. I'm just saying. I love it. Thank you much. Now, now Willie, can we get you to... Or Lester actually. Lester, can we get you to say the word fuck no no no no no

no no he's not gonna work blue for you can we throw some wild some wild names at you guys quick go ahead you worked with Lola Falana Don Rickles Charlie Callis Slappy White any of these any of these names bring up bring up an anecdote or a memory no Slappy White used to be Red Fox's comedy he had a comedy team sure Slappy White and Red Fox yeah yeah yeah And then Slappy White later teamed up with Steve Rossi. He did. Yeah, they tried to put the team back together. Yeah, I remember that.

Oh yes, I remember it well. I can't sing too much stuff. I can't sing too much, cause you gotta taste for it. In the movie, did you have dealings with, well, it had a great cast. John Voight. Yeah, and Bruce Stern and Jane Fonda. Yeah, it's like that was done in Rancho's,

Lazio Mico's hospital down in Downey. That's where they did the hospital scenes. And John Voight, what he would do, because he was on a gurney all the way through the movie. He would stay, like we filmed during the week and stuff like that, even at nighttime, he would stay in the hospital, it was like a closed portion of the hospital

that they never used. But he would stay in a little room there all the time he filmed that. People would go home and stuff like that, he would stay in that little room in that hospital. I mean, it was like an area where nobody was. It was just closed area. He would stay there.

Hell of a movie. Yeah, mm-hmm. So Willie, you're still out there. You're still, I mean, I saw you in Letterman a couple years ago. You're still performing, both of you guys? Yeah, we're still doing it, yeah. Still doing it, still fighting the good fight.

Yeah, I remember the old days when I was in Little Old Town. I used to deal with the Floor Tops before they got Little Old Town. But when they got Little Old Town, they had to change their name. Why did they change their name? What did they call it? When you were with them, what did you call yourselves?

Floor Tops and a stick. What's coming up? Will you got anything coming up you want to plug? We're working on a documentary. Oh great! A documentary on our lives, right? I was going to say, you should write a book or make a documentary or something. You've done everything, you've been everywhere. Yeah, but the been working on that. I was going to say, you should write a book or make a documentary or something.

You've done everything, you've been everywhere. Yeah, but the documentary's going on. That's great. They interviewed me for your documentary. Yeah, yeah. Okay, last question I got. This is from one of our listeners, Willie. Mark Arnold wants to know, will you ever reissue your Motown LP, Hello Dummy? Hello Dummy is out there. Is it out there?

Yeah it's like I think I see them on iTunes and so you know it's it's okay. Can people get it on iTunes? Well let's see it's out there or if it's not out there it'll be out there soon because we're working on getting that together and Hello Dummy was done live at the Fox Theater in Detroit. Oh, there you go. And did Don Rickles ever insult the two of you? No, no, Don Rickles, he's not a friend. I like Don Rickles, he's cool with me.

You know what Don Rickles, he's really down the earth guy. You know, when people, when cars would come and pick him up at the airport, you know up at the airport, he would sit up front. He would sit with the driver. He didn't want to sit. He never sat in the back. He never wanted to sit. Wow.

Oh, he didn't have a star trip. Yeah, yeah. He sat with the driver. Nice name. I like that. I heard with Don Rickles, total opposite of his persona, he was just one of the most gentle and nice guys you'd ever meet. Yeah, he was a nice man. You know, it's almost like Sherman Hensley, the character he played on the Jefferson. Yeah, George. Yeah, when

we were doing the scenes and stuff like that, you know, he's voiceless and stuff like that, but then when we took time off and stuff, he'd go and sit in the corner. He was quiet. Very quiet guy. People go and say hi. He'd say, hey, hi. Did you ever work with Red Fox?

Red Fox? I worked with Red Fox. Well, remember Red Fox? Yeah, yeah, Red Fox. He's cool. Yeah, Red Fox. I'll tell you a story. Lester likes everybody.

Yeah, but Red Fox, he was down to earth. And every time he would see me, he would always say, where's the dummy? You know. He would always say, but the real, I might have told the story,

but I was in Detroit, he was working a club in Detroit. He would always work a lot of jazz clubs. You know, where they had jazz groups and stuff. He would come and do his comedy there. So I saw on the paper where he was going to be at the Baker's Keyboard Lounge, jazz club on Eight Mile in comedy there. So I saw in the paper where he was going to be at the Baker's Keyboard Lounge, jazz club on Eight Mile in Detroit there.

So what I would do, I went over and I went in, it's a little small room, you know, the jazz group was playing, and then, the people in there that night, it was like one of those situations where they had a lot of people, when you got a lot of people who work together, sometimes the audience, you don't get their attention

because they work together. So they're talking to each other because they haven't seen each other. So it was that kind of an audience that night. So the trio, they were finished, and then they introduced Red. Red came up and stood by the piano, and he lighted a cigarette,

and he started doing his act. But the audience, they were voiceless, you know? But he would keep going and when he finished one cigarette, he lighted another cigarette and he finished three cigarettes. So he timed his act with cigarettes. One cigarette. Did you know that? That's cool.

Flip Wilson did the same thing. Flip Wilson. Yeah, you time it, you know, once the cigarette is over, that's about five minutes, you know. Anyway, he finished it, he finished, it wasn't like a situation where he would say, shut up! You know, that kind of, he didn't lose it. He just did it like he was just doing it,

like they weren't even there. And he finished his act, finished, and he went out, and I saw him getting, he had a Lincoln, I remember, he got in his Lincoln and he went out and I saw him getting he had a Lincoln I remember he got in his Lincoln and he drove away, you know, but it's the idea remember the old saying the show must go on If you want to get paid That's Gilbert's motto. Oh, yeah now also you were living in LA and

Now also, you were living in LA, and you looked across the street, and you saw a sign come up, comedy store. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, back in 1972, I was out there, I was doing the laughing, and then one night I came out of the Sunset Towers Hotel, where I was staying, and I looked across the street and there was a sign up there. You know, near the Hyatt House over there.

And it was a comedy store. I said, wait a minute, that wasn't there last night. You know, anyway, I went over and... Sammy. Sammy Shore. Sammy Shore was at the door. You know, and he knew who I was. He said, Willie, I got this,

we got this club going here. You know, if you want to come in and do a set sometimes, you know, let us know, you know So at that particular night was it was just open and I can look in that little window because you can look in the window And I saw a guy on stage But then there's about six people there were six people in the in the in the audience that night It was just beginning. It's just beginning. You see what it where is Chris gone from then and We just lost Mitzi. Yeah.

She just passed. And I think you said Mitzi loved Lester. Mitzi would always talk to Lester. I got a picture, I'll probably put it on the internet some place, but it's the picture in La Jolla, La Jolla Comedy Club. She's holding Lester's, got his, Lester's, her hand on Lester's cheek.

But she'd always talk to Lester. Well, when Lester wasn't around, she would always say, where is he? Where is he? And she was good at names, because my brother would be, come to the comedy store with me sometimes. And she would, as she walked up

and she'd see my brother, and she'd see me, and she says, hi, Willie and she'd seen my brother and she see me and she says hi Willie hi Willie's brother she liked you huh Lester Mitzi Mitzi sure she's nice lady yeah yeah she made me feel real that was great well comedy comedy store rest rest in peace Mitzi do you think you think Mitzi had good taste and that she like you and wouldn't talk to your partner yeah yeah cuz she thought I was funnier she thought she thought he should be a writer okay what what's the name of the documentary, Willie?

Does it have a name and a release date? No, working title now. Documentary, we've been working on it. It's been in the works now for about eight, nine months. The documentary, we got to go to Detroit with the Motown things. We got to go. See, I was born in Alabama. Born in a little town in Alabama called Red Level.

And we've got to go down there. Oh man, you're really doing deep, deep diving on this one. You're going everywhere. Yeah, it's going to be interesting. Interesting, yeah. And Gilbert sent it. We'll try to go to where I was born, the Black Forest. The Black Forest.

Okay, this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to the... Okay, Willy Tyler and the extremely talented Lester. Thank you much. You know how to make a guy feel good. That's good. Hey, can you guys take us out with a couple of bars of one of your songs? Could we impose on you? Let's see what you want to do there.

How you gonna know if the roof leaks? If it never ever rains? How you gonna know if you got some smart if you don't use your drain if you don't use your drain You can't on the town. They're just getting dry not a drop of water. They'll from the sky These are saying all sorts of things. It didn't want to leave there. It was a life routine Say hey, how you gonna know if the roof leaks it another ever reigns Are you gonna know if you got some smart if you don't use your brain? Yeah, yeah Wow, thank you Lester that was wonderful. No problem. I wish we were a visual medium

No Tyler. I wish we were a visual medium. Yeah. Instead of a podcast. Yeah. Yeah. We got some footage. Our engineer Frank Verderosa and Darah were taking some footage. So we'll share it with our fans.

We've been talking to the ventriloquist who can't physically can't say fuck. That's right. That's right. The great Willie Tyler. Willie, thanks for this. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Amazing Colossal podcast is produced by Dara Godfried and Frank Santapadre with audio production by Frank Fertorosa. Web and social media is handled by

Mike Lipatin, Greg Pair, and John Bradley Seals. Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to Paul Rayburn, John Murray, John Fotiatis, and Nutmeg Creative. Especially Sam Giovancho and Daniel Farrell for their assistance. I'm a man, I'm a man