Gil's Arena - Mark Cuban GETS REAL On The Luka Trade & NBA Business

Episode Date: September 2, 2025

Mark Cuban GETS REAL On The Luka Trade & NBA Business as the legendary Owner of the Dallas Mavericks sits down with Gilbert Arenas & Josiah Johnson to break down his iconic journey to one of the most prominent owners in sports history. He opens up by detailing his renowned role in Entourage as the head of Avion Tequila before Gil calls him out for never giving him the championship ring he deserved. They then discuss Cuban's front row seat to the past 20 years of NBA action where he breaks down the worst move in his NBA Career by telling the story of letting Steve Nash walk and gives his unfiltered take on the Luka Doncic trade that sent one of his most beloved players to the Los Angeles Lakers. He then details the road ahead for the Dallas Mavericks by offering an update on Kyrie Irving & Cooper Flagg and gives his thoughts on the changing landscape of the NBA and sports media. Finally, Mark breaks down his affinity for Jerry Jones, comparing his journey with the legendary owner of the Dallas Cowboys and offers advice on how the franchise will navigate the Micah Parsons trade. Gil’s Arena premieres every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday at 11:30am PT / 2:30pm ET. Sign up for Underdog HERE with promo code GIL and play $5 to get $50 Bonus Cash: https://play.underdogfantasy.com/p-gi... SUBSCRIBE:    / @thearena0   Join the Underdog discord for access to exclusive giveaways and promos!   / discord   Must be 18+ (19+ in AL, NE; 19+ in CO for some games; 21+ in AZ & MA) and present in a state where Underdog Fantasy operates. Terms apply. Concerned with your play? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit www.ncpgambling.org; NY: Call the 24/7 HOPEline at 1-877-8-HOPENY or Text HOPENY (467369) CHAPTERS: 00:00 Welcome Mark Cuban 01:53 Mark On His Iconic Role In Entourage 05:28 Mark Cuban Owes Gil A Championship Ring 08:26 Mark Cuban’s New Role With The Mavs 12:19 Why The Mavs Let Steve Nash Go 16:21 Why Mark Sold The Mavs 18:20 Mark Cuban Gets Real On The Luka Trade 34:40 Update On Kyrie Irving 40:41 Mark On The NBA’s New Era 43:21 Cuban Gets Real On Being Hated By The NBA 45:26 Mark Cuban On Jerry Jones & The Cowboys 49:58 The Secret Of The Goat Debate 51:29 The Biggest Problem Facing The NBA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Adventurous side journeys together with third row seating. The new outlander bring out your adventurous side. Mitsubishi Motors. Drive your ambition. Welcome back to Gills Arena, presented by Underdog. Whoa, whoa! As you can see, we're obviously not a Gills crib, but on the road out here in Dallas.

That is because we have a very special guest making his first appearance on the arena. Stacked his paper as a successful businessman, a philanthropist, accomplished actor, recurring role in entourage, one of my favorite shows of all time. Season 7. Brought you, the most international notarizing above everything. So you've seen them getting an investment game on on Shark Tank, slanging them prescription drugs for the low-low with cost plus. But you know,

best as the former principal and now minority owner of the Dallas Mavericks, Mark Cuban. Welcome to Gilz Arena presented by the dog. One of the first investors in Underdog. Yeah, they're giving me pay too. Yeah, I love those guys. That was going to be my first question. So we wouldn't be here without you.

Like you said, one of the early investors, one of the first investors in Underdog, Woo-Wooop. So what made you want to invest in Underdog and indirectly invest in Gill's Arena presented by Underdog? Yeah, because Jeremy and Peter, the guys that were behind it, I've known Peter for a long time and we've done some other deals. He was like, you got to check these guys out. And, like, I played some fantasy sports, but I wasn't hard into it.

And he was like, these guys, you know, Jeremy's really smart and knows what he's doing. I'm like, okay, let's give it a run. And it just, and I was like, okay, I'll go for that ride. And it's, I don't even know how many years I've been in there. It's been years now. But, you know, they got, you know, valued like over a billion dollars last time through. I was like, woo-hoo. We appreciate them.

Direct deposit, always on time. Thank you. Always on time. I never have to go looking for it. Yeah, and that's a blessing right there, right? Because you know how that goes. You already know. So we're going to talk Mavs, hoops, and life shortly.

But first, let's talk about a decision you made which ultimately made you an international celebrity. I talked about it in my intro. Entourage, one of my favorite shows of all time. A array of celebrity cameos on the show. A lot of them are usually brief, but you had a recurrent role. Yeah, so I'll tell you what happened, right? So Doug Allen, the guy who runs it, asked me to come in for a cameo. And I was just going to, you know, show up like a cameo.

you know, show up like a regular cameo, and I had a scene with Turtle and Turtle's girlfriend and somebody else. And one of the people couldn't remember their lines for shit, right? And so Doug goes to me, hey, look, we're going to have this storyline where we have this tequila, Avian, and we think we can have some fun with it. It might get a little dark. Would you be interested in letting it run? I'm like, let's go, right? You know, all because this person couldn't remember the lines. They took it in a whole other direction, and they just kept on bringing me back and bringing me back at season seven. I was in like eight episodes and the movie, and it was all about avion tequila. And to this day, people think I own avion tequila. And I wish I had invested in it

because it blew up too, right? And so, but it was a blast. Like, you know, I got to act, I got to hang out with Jeremy Pivot, all those guys, right? But I got to do some acting. Like, There was this guy, I forget his name, but he was in this movie right before that with Harrison Ford, and I got so nervous because I had to, like, do this scene. But the good news is, like, with Doug, he didn't make you memorize the script verbatim, right? So you could veer off a little bit and just go whatever direction you wanted to and add lib, and so that made it easy for me. But it was so much fun.

Did you take any classes before? You know what, I'll tell you this. I went to L.A. After I sold my first company here in Dallas, I moved to Manhattan. in Los Angeles, right? And then up into Hollywood, and I was taking acting classes. Not because I wanted to be an actor, I just wanted to meet women. I was young, and it was just like a great way to be girls, right?

And it was great, I met, you know, and this is so far back in the day. This is when Living Color was rocking, right? And so like half the cast was in this class. You know, Kim, Wayans, Damon would show up every now and then, and then there was a guy named Twist, who was the DJ for a living color, right? And so, you know, from there, and there was all the day, And there was all these other people who were casting these movies and everything. And I'm just, like, chilling and having fun, you know.

And so I just took the acting lessons for probably a year and a half just to have fun. But acting lesson to try to get the work. I love it. You know, and then I love doing the acting thing. You've done cameos, right? No. No? Oh, we got to get you out.

It's just commercials. Just commercials? Because you just go in there, like, and you're playing yourself, right? So I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but I just, did a thing with Mark Wahlberg, and it's a movie he's got coming out. And I'm there talking to some dude, and Mark Wahlberg just comes up and go, pop, and killed me. And I have to pretend I'm getting shot, so I have to pretend all these different ways of it's shot. And the guy goes, oh, you just killed Mark Cuban, and they go into this whole thing. That's just so much fun, right?

You were cool. You saw the script. You were cool with them. Oh, yeah, I was dying. So, yeah, you can kill me there, but then I did Shark Nato 3, right? And I said, I did a deal with the Shark Nato. You know what Shark Nato is? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I did the deal with him, like, I'll come in and be the president, you know, in this Sharknato thing, but you can't kill me because just in case it goes really well, I want to be able to come back, right? And as it turns out, they had offered it to Donald Trump before, and so, and he couldn't

do it because of scheduling, the whole world may be different if he had taken that role. Sharknato 3. But go check it out. I think it should have won an Oscar, but, you know. So we got a lot of basketball discuss, but... Sure. Before we do, Gil, I know you got something on your mind. No, no, no.

So, I'm still waiting for my championship ring. See, I knew you didn't realize it. Because? See, because I got in trouble in Washington. Right. With the gun stuff. Right. They traded.

Oh, Brendan. Brendan Deshawn to your team. Right, this is true. They broke it up. That's right. Which helped you. You were right, right. Oh, my God.

Yeah. So, you know, anytime you want to send it to me, I'm not. Steve, yeah, the whole crew. That's the one I'm like, I was in a halfway house. And they were in the big of you guys are like, yeah. Oh, my God. Who kept, you know, getting rid of us. Oh, my.

Yeah, because I was cheering for you guys. Yeah, of course, right? Yeah, we started that kind of like Wizards to Mavs pipeline going back to Joanna. Howard. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we got Josh Howard from you got, yeah. And then our trade, which gave us. see uh jameson back yeah you got devon harris yep yep then that we got the number five

picks you have devon yeah because i had to deal with antoine because he we had him come off the bench we trade him for him from golden states right and he comes in and it was like okay we need you off the bench he's like i don't want to be off the bench i'm like look if you don't like it i promise you i'll trade you and we'll find a spot right boom him gave me gave him back yeah i mean quickly to my next moment's just as an owner to have that relationship with players obviously a lot of times you're going to make tough business decisions but to be able to able to sit there and tell a guy, look, you don't like it, I'll take care of you. Why was that important to you?

Well, I mean, look, it's never going to be perfect, right? You're going to have relationships that work well and some that don't work as well as you like for any number of reasons. But more honest, you can be with the guy, the better they're going to respond, right? It's when you just start talking shit and bullshitting them that things go south, you know. You know, like Quran, when he got hurt, you know, talking about, you know, so Quran got hurt the year we won, we were like 29 and five, something ridiculous. And Karan goes down. Nasty's injuries I've seen in the NBA. His knee cap just was like up here, and it was in Milwaukee his hometown.

He literally got up and walked off the court. Like, I don't know how the fuck he did it, right? So he's worried that, you know, he's done for the year and we got to replace him, you know, am I going to trade him? And so I'm like, CB, you know, I'm just going to be honest with you. If the right deal comes along, I've got to pull the trigger. But I'm going to keep you updated the whole time. And so the whole season, you know, up until the trade deadline, he's rehab and trying to get back.

But like, here's the deal we're talking about this and this and this. And we didn't trade them, but he respected it, right? Because we're open and honest. And if you can do that with guys, most of them are going to, you know, respect your back. That's real hard right there. So the majority stake of the math, late 2023, what's been the hardest part of going from a majority owner to now a minority.

Not making the final personnel decisions, right? That's what I was going to get. You know, oh, yeah, let's trade one of the top three players in the NBA, right? I wouldn't have done it, but it's done. And so, you know, and sometimes the basketball got smile on you and you get Cooper flag in the number one pick, right? But yeah, that's been the toughest part, just not being the final decision maker when it comes to on court decisions. Some of your star players and some of the decisions you made, who's your scouts? Because you were on the European players before it was like fashionable, especially as the star player.

That was the Nelsons, right? Donnie and his dad, they were into that going way, way back. And so they had a pipeline. Like my pop's over there, my new bowl, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, they had that pipeline going back into the 80s. And so they knew everybody out there. And so, you know, I just knew that, you know, Donnie had a good eye for talent and, you know,

having access to all these Europeans. It was us in San Antonio. No one else was even paying attention. And so that gave us a big edge, getting Dirk and everything for tractor trailer, red on peace, Tractor, but, yeah, so that really opened up a lot of doors for us. And honestly, like, when that was happening, it was like right around the time I bought the team, fans were crushing them, right? Another big white stiff from some company country you can't pronounce, right?

But they're smart and it worked out for us. So as it stands right now, what's your role with the team at this current moment? And what's the energy like? That's a good question. I mean, right now I talk to Patrick Dumont, the new majority owner, you know, fairly often. And I'm there just to help them, support them. I'm doing a MAV's event tomorrow. Just, you know, if I help with sales, help with, you know, Rick Welts who came in, who's, you know, doing his thing.

I'm Ethan Connor, just there to just help and be supportive wherever I can. I mean, I'm still a hardcore fan, right? That doesn't go away. So wherever I can help, whatever anybody has questions for me, I'm going to answer them. So when you see them, is the handshake or is it the full depth like we got when we pulled up on you? It's the full, well, it depends on who it is. Okay, right? Yeah, I'm friendly with everybody, right?

I'm not going to do somebody just because, you know, whatever didn't work the way I wanted it to. It's like life's too short to listen. Is it hard for you because you are a basketball fan? and that being part of your team and that's you. Yeah, for sure. Is it hard now having to be. Yeah, plus I had my way of doing this, right? So being a fan, being somebody who just spent a lot of hours, learning everything, you know,

and watching video, looking at the analytics, trying to come up with new analytics approaches to give us an edge. You know, that was my mindset 24-7. And now it doesn't matter. You know, and I'll still do that same stuff, but sometimes it's just me in the wall. But, you know, he bought it, the right. Look, I've said this before, and I'll say it again, the guy who bought a Patrick Dumont, he didn't know basketball coming in, but I didn't know basketball other than just, you know, playing pickup, and he's learning, right?

He's going to get better. He's smart. He's picking things up, you know, really quickly, and he's putting in the time to learn. And that's all you can ask. And he wants to win. He's willing to spend the money. And, you know, in this second apron world of the new CBA, that's important. So you said you played pick up, play basketball growing up.

Who's your NBA comp if you had to compare you? Oh, my. John Brisker, you don't even know who that is. He was an ABA player. I grew up in Pittsburgh, so he played for one of the ABA teams there. Who would be my, like, probably D. Steve, right? I'll go something to, like, when it would, you know, I'll just fuck with people all the time and talk shit out there.

Okay. And, you know, if you give me a spot up three, I can make it. Okay. But I had a good first step, but, yeah, I had a good first step. But, yeah, I wasn't athletic enough to get anywhere. For sure. That 04, is it 0304 season? At the end of that season, you didn't pick Nash back up.

Right. Because all my doctors were saying that, you know, that season, he had played like 29 minutes in the game. And the doctors were saying, you know, he's got all these orthopedic issues and this and that. And we made him a good offer. And I'll never forget it because down in my office at the arena, I still have the calendar from that very moment. moment where I took the notes when I was talking to Steve, because, you know, kudos to Steve.

He called me back and said, hey, this is what he. They gave me Mike Bibby money, right? And we had offered him like 14 or whatever. And my bibby money back then was like 16. And I was like, this is, you know, this is what we're sticking at, Steve. We want you to come back. But, you know, to make it all work with the cap. Because remember, back then, the cap would go down in years. Yes, it did. Remember? It, like, it wasn't always going straight up like now. Like, there were years where it would go up two, down four, up one, you know. And that made it tougher to pay up. And so, you know, obviously that probably was my biggest mistake, you know,

letting Nashy watch. So I was going to ask you how much did you regret it? Was it? It's like, I mean, we ended up going to the finals right now, but still it really was. Because I said the one thing that happened because he leaves and then that hand-checking rule was removed or it added. Added, yeah. where you couldn't really, like, hanged check.

So you had to touch. And I was like, well, him getting, him going to sons, adding Amari that dove, you can't touch Steve. I'm like, shit, that actually worked out perfect for him. For them, yeah. For them, not for me. He wouldn't have been a back-to-back MVP. No, no. And plus he was motivated.

Yeah. And plus he was motivated. But you're right. You know, I hadn't really thought about it that way. They changed the rules a lot because the score, the games were like, eight. 80 to 75 back then and I remember being in the board of governor's meetings and people are like freaked out right the game is too boring it's too slow it's not open it's really physical and we got 80 to 75 games where squads would go six minutes without scoring a point it was ugly because they added the zone

because it was adding the zone and so they added the zone right and the eight second yeah and then it changed it the the summer that he was a free agent where you're couldn't really like guide somebody guide someone and then that's yeah because the whole game it was like like you were yeah all right whoever was stronger you won that match up so so you were in governor's meetings and they were saying we need more buckets yeah the defense is cool but we need to see some bucks okay so like people like look at the NBA now they just see the valuation just taking off right and think this is the way it's always been like when I bought the team in 2000 for 285 million dollars fast forward 10 years 10 years and we couldn't even sell

the New Orleans franchise. The NBA had to take it over. Remember all that shit was Chris Paul and all that, right? Nobody wanted to buy it. My team was worth less 10 years later. And so, you know, it was a different world back then. And so the NBA was like, you know, dress code, remember? People were freaked out about tattoos.

Yep, they were freaked about braids. They were freaked out about just hip hop all the time, you know. And I remember having talks with our guys. It was like, why are they doing this? And it was like, there's a bunch of old white dudes that are buying the advertising. They're not down with, you know, the look or the culture that was coming out back then. And, you know, just trying to be honest. It's just, it's not right, but it is what it is.

Yeah. A lot of players is like, well, Steve Nash is still not dressing. Dirt's not dressing. It's like the cleanest, the cleanest, right? It was like, I don't want to be a part of no dress code. No, no, no. And it was, and then all of a sudden, now we're going to 180 degrees, right? Right. Now guys are just wearing anything.

Yeah, it's like, yeah, just things change, right? The world changes. You know, people accept things differently now than they did back now. Bought the mask for 285 in 2000, sold them in 2020 for a much, much. 285. That was a high number. Yeah, it was a high number. It was the highest ever paid for a team. Everybody thought I was an idiot, right? Which is crazy to remember that back in those times because that was an absurd number. I'm on the bus, like right after I bought the team.

And the deal hadn't closed with Yahoo. So I still had a bunch of Yahoo's. Well, it was going to close, but I had a bunch of Yahoo stock. And they were like, why did you pay so much? And I brought up the stock price of Yahoo. And this is when the Internet stock was going crazy, right? And it had gone up like $50 or whatever in the day. I said, see that?

That paid for the whole team one day, right? I didn't stress it, right? And so it was a different error, but it was a lot of fun. So like I said, bought the team 285 and 2000, sold it 2023 for a much higher amount, obviously. But what led to that drive and multiple? Being the basketball fan, you are loving the game, as much you love it, loving the math, as much you love it. What made you decide right now, this is the time I got to get out? A lot of things, right?

You know, it's not like I was going to start getting younger again, right? And so my kids at the time were 14, 17, and 20, you know, and between Shark Tank and the math, I was always gone. And so I was like, okay, it's time to spend more time. You got to start thinking about your estate and how all that's going to work out. And then just the shit that comes rolling downhill when you're in the business. You know, I mean, you've been through as much as anybody, right? You know, you can't go out the door without somebody bringing it up, without somebody giving you shit about something.

And I'm like, all right, is this what I want my kids to have? Like, if something happens to me and they've got to take over, like, do I want them just to have to put up with all the shit? And the answer to me was no. You know, I can deal with it. It's not maybe they can't, but I want them to have their. own path, you know, to do their own thing and, you know, not say, okay, you got to, you got to do the family business. And so, you know, I pulled the trigger. So you say you don't want to do with the shit. So when people come up to you now and they may

have a feeling about a particular mood that was made by the mouth, you just like, I ain't got none of that. Oh, all the time. That ain't me. That ain't me, Doc. You know, it's so funny because, like, I'm in the pharmacy business. I can go to pharmacy events, right, where I'm giving speeches. 100% of the time. Can I ask you this one question that's a little bit off, you topic. No, I didn't trade Luca. Wasn't me, right? Automatically, that's coming up, no matter where I am, anywhere in the world. They're asking me that question.

It was funny as I did that, remember I did the interview, and I was like, we were talking about the future of, you know, I'm a Laker fan. So I was like, and we had great ears. And I said, unless someone like Dallas trades Luca, which would be stupid, I don't see how the Lakers is going to like I don't see who's out there that that is a superstar so I'm thinking about superstars like we as Lakers we always get a super star that's just the way the so I said the only superstars I see will be Janus and Luca but they're not dumbing up the trade us Luca and I believe you said it just like that they're not dumb enough to trade us

Luca that's so I was like you know we need I had I got the call that night You know, and he said, we're trading Luke. And I thought, no, he's asking me if we should trade Luke. Yeah. He's like, no, he's telling me, we're trading at Luke. He's telling, yeah. I was like, I was shocked. Yeah.

That was then, here we are, you know. Yeah. A.D. Yeah, I get it. You know, you know? Kyrie when he gets back. Cooper. Yeah, I love, I love Kai.

I love Cooper. I mean, it's. And Cooper should be the real deal. Yeah. And you never know until you know, you know. But, yeah, he should be, he's going to be good. Like the move, like, you know, just watching him play at the point. Like, you know, I do, I'm looking at him at the point in, you know, Summer League.

And then I'm thinking about everyone who's going to have to guard him in his position, right, for the most part. No one's going to be able to pick him up full court, so you're going to have to stick a little guard on them. So there's only six, seven matchups that stops you from doing that. Right. And even then, right, you're going to get a switch somehow or something, right? Yeah. So I'm sitting there, like, putting him at the point, oh, that's going to be a big team, you know. That's where I pushed the whole time. The minute we got him, I called J. Kid. We've got to run them at, you know, point forward one, whatever you want to call it, right? And just spread it out and get the matchup we need. You have the Magic Johnson style. Like, he doesn't have to be like that traditional, traditional trying to figure out.

No, just get it up and down. Like, somebody want to put a point on you, put you in a post. Yeah, just go where the opportunity is. And, you know, he's still got to improve his three. But the kid's 18 years old. 18, he doesn't turn 19 till December. And he's a worker. It's not like, hey, I'm good of basketball, but that's not my thing. He's like, I'm good of basketball and I want to be great and I'll put in the time.

That's his advantage. I went down to Arizona when Duke played just to see, just to see what he looked like up close. And the one thing that I noticed, I was like, you know, he's like, you know, he's a bit. He plays hard. Hard. And on defense, too. Yes, on defense. He just plays hard.

Yeah, he wants to defend. He wants to impact the game every way he can. So let's get into it. So after the finals run in 2024, you lost control over Mazz basketball operations, right? During a recent interview with the DLLS Mavs podcast, you said the NBA removed a clause in your sale agreement that would have allowed you retained control of basketball hops while also saying, I don't give a fuck at this point. It's done. I signed the contract. Yeah, it's done.

So we're talking about the Luca trade. You said you were not a fan. of the Luca trade, but I want to know, what's your relationship like with Luca right now? You know, we still DM, and most of the time he'll respond to me, and I'll still give him shit about stuff. And, you know, like, even when we went to play the Lakers, I'm sitting and talking to his dad and I are friends, right? We'll always sit and talk and hang out, you know, talking, you know, give Luca a hard time. So, you know, I wouldn't say we're close, but we still communicate as much as we ever did. Okay. So, I mean, we need to just

I love Luca to death, right? I like his team. I mean, there's, yeah, I got nothing bad. Only great things to say about Luca. So when he responds to the DM, is it like the janky heart? I hate when people just gave me the heart. No, it's not just the heart. Luca is not like the just the heart type guy, right?

Making sure. Yeah, no, that was, I mean, just, it seemed like when we got him, I seemed like that was, that was a real shock. Like, a lot of people don't get shocked. And I was like, the way he's. Yeah. Well, you know, you've got. been there, right?

And you've been around guys. You know, it's just like Nash, right? That was motivation for Steve to prove. And now look at Luca. He's just going to be tearing it up. Thank God the Lakers are going to struggle, but, you know. Even, you know, like when you guys, that was, I was bad on predicting the Luca win.

But I really kind of like, like when we were talking about the draft, and I was like, well, he looks slow, he looks this, I don't know. And I don't know if it was true. It was true, but you, did you have on your staff, it started with an H. Herolibus? Yeah, Bob. Bob, yeah. And I'm just like, well, if Bob's there, then I know he understands basketball.

Yeah, no, he's. The analytics guys were like over the moon. I mean, just like, this guy is the real deal. And I remember we played in China, our first preseason games then. And I had Sean Mary, and Tricks was right here. And I forget who else is. maybe Stephen Jackson and I'm like tell me what you think right because I'm dying right because I just traded a pick got this deal done myself um and I'm like please God let him be great

and he just day one I mean and you know talking to the guys in practice you know when guys are winning every run as a rookie and you've got a lot of vets on that team that's a sign and when the vets are showing you know nothing but love to the guy saying he's the real deal he's the real deal Now you just got to go prove it in a game. You can see like the things that he sees. Like I'm always like him, Steve Nash, magic. Yeah, they did. Even LeBron, right?

One step ahead, right? They know the chess game and they, you know, it's not just vision. It's like they see the game happening in their brain, right? It's like that TV show where the numbers all show up and everything. They see the play is happening before they're happening. And so they're putting the ball where it's supposed to be, knowing the guys are going to be there. Yeah, and it, like, it intrigues me.

Like, when I watch him, it's like he knows, like, I'm going to drive here, he's going to reach something. Yeah. I'm going to just put it down just a little bit. He has to shift over. He's going to go down. I'm going to throw it. He's going to get the screen back, this back, right?

And he's ahead of time, three moves ahead, right? And he's big enough to see it. Because there's lots of guys, you know, that have that ability, but don't have the size. And I remember when we drafted them and people were giving us a hard time, you know, we gave up a pick to move up. And I'm like, look at the guys who have the biggest impact on the game right now. Kauai.

How big is Kauai? Bringing the ball up. Yonis, how big is Yonis bringing the ball up? LeBron. How big is LeBron bringing the ball up? You need a big point guard who has a big basketball IQ because that just makes everybody better. You know, it's not that a, you know, six foot two or six foot three point guard can't have an impact, but it's just harder.

Yeah, I learned that when I was in Orlando and we had Turk. Yeah, he was great. It was shocking how good Hito is. The stuff he can see. Yeah, how does he know I was saying, right? And he's got all the shit to him, right? Yeah, had a little, yeah.

Yeah, overseas. So two-part question for you, were you a die-hard Luca fan when he was with the mask? Yeah, of course. Are you still a die-hard Luca fan? Of course not. You are not a hard-a-hruca fan anymore. Come on, Mark.

Slovenian Jesus. Sla, right? I learned a little. Slavian is the hardest language to learn. Like, I thought I would really kiss Lucas' ass by learning some Slovenian. That shit's hard. But in any event, like, off the court, loved Luca the death. On the court, fuck them.

I don't want him to get hurt or anything. You hate Lakers that much? Yes. Can he play good and the Lakers not play with? They had the same colors in my high school. I threw my high school gear away. Oh, man. Thought you was going to turn you and get you out to be a Laker fan.

Marr, you can tell us the truth. Are you going to watch Laker games? You're just for Luka? No. And be excited when he scored. No. No. I'm going to hope they go 0 and 82.

I hope they go 0 and 802. Are you yellow brick when he comes? I don't mind. Like, I'm a Laker. I'm a Laker diehard. Like, I'm with the Wizards with a Laker tattoo and a tattoo. Yeah. Yeah, I know.

Like I haven't had, when I did my shoes, there was always a Laker colorway. Oh, is it? Yeah, there was a Laker color way. Said, I love Lakers. So I'm, I'm a diehard. So when we got Luca, my Euro stance changed. I flipped. I flipped like, soon as I heard, like, Luca, what did I say about Euros? I'm lying. I got one now. So, like, I love Luca to death. He's a great guy. So my favorite players. We respect you standing on business. They all that time. We got a hardaway. It was, so Penny, then, uh, Penny, then, uh, and now it's Luca. Yeah.

I'm good with that because Luke is a good guy, but fuck the Lakers. Yeah, I get it. I get it. And I love Jeannie too, right? I mean, there's like, and I get okay along great with Rob, but on that court? Yeah. When you see them now, is it smoke? When you see Jeannie Rob, the rest of the Lakers crew, is it still what up or is it just, I'm just doing what I'm doing?

Rob just killed me, killed me. So I went to, I took my son when the Mazz played the Lakers after the trade, right? And we're sitting there and Rob comes up to say hi. And he just gives me that no grin, right? Like he's trying to hold him back. Oh, I'm like, got him. No. Got him.

That's right. So let's go back to a moment when Luca was with the Mavs that went viral. What was your reaction to Michael Finley taking the beer out of Lucas' hand? I was standing right there. I was fine with it, right? And it wasn't because he didn't want him to drink it. It was because there were cameras everywhere, you know, and just not cool when a player is doing an interview with a beer.

you know so Michael wasn't like worried about oh you're going to gain weight or any of that shit like if he didn't do it i would have done it you know it was more about camera's going to be rolling you're going to need to be talking nobody needs to know that you're drinking a beer how many times have you seen a player do an interview with a beer in his hand uh go to stay boys a western conference finals championship though i think that that that warrants a beer no finals you know they're popping bottles they're doing yeah finals is cool right yeah no because we had just lost and you were going to have to do interviews, you know. And so, you know, it was, I agree with it. I thought Finn did the right thing. I was standing right there. If I thought it was wrong,

I'd be like, get him another one. Hey, it was so funny. I thought Finn wanted it. I thought it was one of them. I didn't even look at it like, you know, that, because Clay, Clay popped it on, was it, uh, he was in the middle of interview, T&T. Oh, he did? But that was after they won. It was, I mean, after you win and you celebrate, it's like, Herb map playing. You know, I was sitting there like, Clay, Clay. Yeah, I mean, how many guys have you seen pull up a beer, right? You know, especially if you're at the podium,

they're not letting you put up anything except the sponsor, you know. And I just, I mean, nothing comes in mind of just some guy just, you know, okay, you know, here's my bud, let me just go with it, right? You know, because. Like, worst case, I was like, oh, maybe they're not sponsored by that one? No, no, no. You have drank beers on our show, so he has a different perspective. No, I'm trying to drink the beer.

Trying to get the brand. Come on. Come on. Product placement. Yeah, I mean, look, and like I tried to explain to people before the trade. Lucas Slovenian, right, he's Slavic. Look at Joker, same part of the country. Boban, same part of the country, right?

Just a different mental perspective on, you know, the game and your personal life. They're going to have drinks. That's what they do. And I never had a problem with it. You know, it's like respect the culture, their culture, and who they are. You know, as you get older, you mature and your time will come. So in the aftermath of the trade, and obviously there was a lot of bitterness, anger from mad fan, Nico Harrison's subject of much criticism, a lot of hate from fans,

mass fans and fans around the league, fire Nico chance, audible games, even at medieval times. I know that was insane. I was at a movie premiere for The Accountant, too. And a couple people saw me doing the whole shit. I'm like, come on man, I'm trying to watch a movie. But in your opinion, what's it going to take for the

organization to repair the relationship with Mass Fame? Just winning. Yeah, it just takes time and winning. Just like after we lost Nash, I got crushed. Crushed. Deservably so, but then we go to the finals two years later, and people forgot about it.

Yeah. So just making the finals. I mean, Cooper can make it forget. Even if they go to the finals, or win it, I mean, he's a smartest man in the world. Yeah, you know, for whether you agree or disagree, you know, fans, I mean, there's always going to be a subset of fans that are just critical no matter what, no matter what, right? They're just calling in to talk radio still on Twitter 24-7, just waiting to pounce. There's nothing you can do about those guys, right?

But, you know, at the same time, you've got to respect the feelings of Mavs fans and understand why they're upset. And I do, you know, I was just as upset. I'm still a fan, right? I'm still all in on the Mavs. And so, you know, Cooper, us getting Cooper, that makes a huge difference. Now we just got to win.

So Texas is a basketball highbed right now. You got the Rockets, got KD, made some moves on there. You got the Spurs, Wemby, hopefully coming back, bigger and better. The Texas Triangle, man, used to always be beastly now. It was back, right? Was there beef even back in the days amongst the three organizations? Oh, hell, yes, right? I mean, we hated each other.

The Mavs and the Spurs, are you kidding me? Like, I remember we had a deal down there, and we'd always stay at one of the hotels and the Riverwalk, right? And they'd always, you know, for whatever reason, a lot of times we were there, they would do the dredging. And someone interviewed, what do you think about San Antonio? I'm like, it's okay except for that muddy-ass, you know, riverwalk, you know, and I would just get crushed. Like, people were in there. Literally, I would walk into games. This has happened at a couple different reasons, and I loved it.

I'd stand up behind the bench or I'd walk in and people start booing me just the media the whole place is booing me you know or Cuban sucks Cuban sucks and like I remember a couple times Timmy Duncan is on our end getting ready to take free throws and I'm like I'm going to test this I'm going to stand up and the place starts booing and he's looking around like what the hell is going on and so yeah but San Antonio just hated us like they hung me an effigy right they'd have boats going down the, you know, the little river there. And there would be like me with a noose around my neck and, you know, where they'd be screaming outside the hotel room.

Oh, yeah, all that stuff. Yeah, no, I love fandom. I love fandom like that. Yeah, I had no problem with it, right? It was just an intense rivalry. And, you know, and then in 2006, you know, we're about to lose in game seven. And then Manu files Dirk. And then Sagana Jop takes over and overtime.

It was the craziest thing ever. And we go to the finals. was a job job job job so got a job dun da da da da da yeah maybe spelled diop but job the ternunciation okay yes scaniaop yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah we're black so we don't want people don't pay attention too yeah he was like number five to cleveland yeah yeah yeah maybe not number five but he was up there mad to have a loaded roster coming this season obviously karee is kind of the big question mark just depending on you know what's going on with his ACL situation have you heard any updates on kairi as it stands right now i mean he's up and about um

saw him in summer league and he was feeling good and he's such a worker right you know he's going to do everything um and so yeah i mean he's hopeful to come back earlier yeah but we'll see you know he's in jersey right he's in jersey right now expecting another kid we were trying to pull because i hit him i hit him to uh i was like i'm coming i'm coming down are you going to be there he was like well i'm around the corner so he's he was at home yeah and he was like then i'm going to going to uh jersey like he's he's when you get to know him he's a good he's a great guy great i love kai to death right he's the like when he was having all his problems at brooklyn and before that boston like we're trying to get another star to pair with luka

and initially i was like kairi you know everybody called him a cancer everywhere he went they were ready to get rid of him but every player i talked to loved him and I would start watching like his old games and after every game you know guys dapp up and trade jerseys people just wouldn't dab they'd be like hugging them like they were a cousin they hadn't seen him forever right they just love the guy and everyone I talked to same thing and I'm like okay you know we're going to go out and pull this trade off because he was you know a fallen angel right and so we can get him for a good deal I'm like we're going to pull the trigger and we're just going and give him a lot of attention and talk to them.

And, you know, it paid off. And, you know, I still got a great relationship with him. Shetalia, I mean, they're good people. Yeah. I remember he invited me over here. It's like, hey, yo, we're, I'm having a little thing at my house today at 11. 11, we're going to start cooking steaks. I was like, 11 at night.

He was like, yeah, 11, 11, I'm going to cook steaks. We're going to have a nice little vibe, great energy, get with great people. I was like, Kai, I'm asleep. Like, I'm in bed at, like, 10 o'clock. Oh, world. Sometimes. I was like, you know what, fine. The conversations are going to be insane, right?

He's going to be talking about world peace and all this stuff. He started looking at me. He was like, yeah, I can take you. See, what? Oh, my God. Like at the rim right here, let's go. Let's go. Let's go.

Is that the crew with the grass court? Yeah, you got the grass, yes. It's a grass court. And I remember, so he's warming up. This is my, the first time I went, he's warming up, and I'm watching my daughter work out with a, feel. So he's out there playing with a little kid shaking the hell out of it. I'm like, yeah, relax. It's like, no, you can. You know, just in case he grows up and needs to play me

one day. I want to let him know who I am. Right. So I'm like, I get it. So I'm like, I get it. And then he was like, old timer. He was like, let's shoot. I think I can beat you. That's like, like, like right now? He was like, yeah, right now. As I do I get any warm up shots? He was like, no. Yeah. And I was like, well, lucky for me, I worked out before I got. So I'm actually, I'm actually when I get to the last spot. So I'm down one, got three shots left.

He was like, I thought you could shoot out of bounds. And I was like. Oh, so he's playing you trying to get you. So I end up losing. And I was like, again tomorrow. He was like, nah, no thanks. I got to win. And he's never shot me again.

I was like, he holds that against you. Like, yeah, I'm a better. It's like when I first bought the team, I was playing one-on-one against Dirk, right? And I hit my first two shots and then a miss gets the rebound. Comes back, dunks me. I'm, I'm quit. I'm done. I'm done.

My brother used to do that to be in a video game. Turn it off. And that is a score that's the answer. That's what you can do about it. But in your opinion, what's the map ceiling with Kyrie and without Kyrie this season? I mean, the key for us is making three-point shots, right? because we lost, you know, Luca obviously could get a shot anywhere anytime and was a decent three-point shooter. And, you know, we lost Quentin Grimes. We, you know, we got Clay, but it's

hard for us to play five out right now. Like AD will take a three, but he's not a great three-point shooter. He's not taking a lot. Right. But I think those numbers will go up. And then you got D-Live, who I hope can shoot a lot more threes. And then Gaff, who's just not a three-point shooter, right? He's not going to shoot him. After that, we got PJ who can make a three. Coup hopefully will improve his three-point shot. And then DeLo, who can shoot threes. But we don't have a squad where we're just going to keep on coming after you

and taking threes, you know, because we've got these three bigs that will make us one of the best defensive teams, right? But there's going to be moments in close games that we've got to figure out how to score because we're not going to automatically be able to spread the court. And I mean, I guess it's probably too late. When I was watching the game with, or going into that Boston series, remember I said, I said, it's great for his instincts, but it's going to be bad for this series.

And I said, they're going to play, Gaprida is going to be played off the floor because he is a rim protector. So when he's coming down on defense, he is going to protect that rim. Right. And they're running to the three point. You're running to the corner, right? And I said, he's going to mess up drag. Well, that's what you know, yeah, that's what happens with Minnesota, with Rudy, right?

Yep. You just, whether it was at Utah and Minnesota, the bigs, you've got to be able to shoot a three. Yep. You've got to be able, and you've got to be able to guard on the perimeter. And it's the guard for him. I was like, ah, his natural, I said, his natural answer, he's going to take off to help. And I'm like, oh, this is. And if you can punish on the other side, right, if you're going to have lobs nonstop, that's great.

But even when they were playing Jalen Brown at the five, we couldn't make it work. I mean, and that's J. at the five. Yeah. He was blocking shots. I'm like, what's the fuck? This is not our series. So nowadays fans are super critical of all the threes that teams are taking.

But I mean, I just hear you talk about how you guys. No, I think the game's beautiful right now, right? Everybody can do everything. And it wasn't like that. Like when you were playing, like, there was always one dude that the star didn't have to guard. Right? This is Gil's guy, right? Yeah.

You know, go for it, right? It's not like that anymore. Everybody's either going to cut to the rim for a lob. of the rim for a lob if you're either going to be a threat there or you're going to take a three and so you know you're seeing more bigs now that are versatile than you've ever seen before you're seeing you know guys who can take threes but you're also seeing teams trying to take the three away right so you're seeing more mid-range from you know kD right um kai you know the guys who are great at mid-range but now it's back shay you know brunson yeah brunson i mean you know

idea even four or five years ago of pulling up at the elbow and taking a shot you would might have been pulled yeah yeah you know it just doesn't work but now if you could hit 60% from mid-range that's better than shooting threes and so I don't have a problem with the threes because that opens up the mid-range that opens up the lob and you got to be able to make them you know and so if you because if you can't make a three you're not going to be able to take them so I don't got a problem with all the threes at all but it goes with the same theory that I that I was using when there was always those teams that had that just defensive player on a team.

And I said, yeah, that's the guy. The Steve, right? The Dave Steve, Steve, yeah. I'm just going to guard him. I don't have to work, right? And no matter how much he's guarding me, I get to rest on offense. Yep. I mean, on defense.

Yep. So, and that's why I said, I would never, if you're going to hunt a lion, you need a lion. So to stop Curry, you need someone who's going to shoot just as much to make him run around. Right. You've got to make him run, right? or you're going to hunt him, right, and make him go through a screen and put them, which means you've got to have somebody that he's going to end up guarding

that it's not like, okay, he's guarding the point, you know. If you can't, then he's just going to switch, or they're going to pre-switch, right? And so whoever he switches onto has got to be able to do something. And that's where the game has changed a lot. We still got the most of us. I mean, us Lakers, we got Vando, so, you know, I'm like, come on, Vando, like, do something.

And I can be just in a corner-ass atmosphere. Well, just like Jada McDaniel, right of Minnesota, it went from not being able to shoot a lick to knocking down a three. So, but Vando always hits like five out of seven threes against us, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It gets to work. But let's talk a little bit of just more about you. So when you bought the Mavs in 2000, teams hadn't been to the playoffs.

It's 1990. Years of mediocrity, right? Turn things around right away. Mediocrity would have been good. That would have been a step up. I was, you know, doing the research, like, ooh, I forgot how nasty this was. That was ugly. I just saw Rolando Blackman, too.

the other day over Venice Beach randomly like made me think about it. Confidence may be confident. But he was great. But you were able to turn things around right away, right? Your first full season snapped that playoff drought in that first 12 season period. You made the playoffs every time, finals twice. 50 wins a year, yeah. But you were very front facing as an honor, which wasn't particularly common at that point, very vocal as well.

Obviously very visible, sidelines, locker, media, social media, April Fool's, pranks with fake ref, you know, just kind of always just kind of out there doing your thing. But how do you think the league and the other owners felt about you doing it? They hated my ass, right? David Stern was the guy who protected me, right? Because David was like, no, this was good, right? There's somebody who's young and has ideas. But I remember being yelled at by, no, it wasn't A. Polin, the old wizard's owner, it was the guy who owned the Pistons.

And I was in my first year, and I was talking shit about something. And the guy stands up and goes, shut the fuck up. Until you've done something in this league, sit down and shut the fuck up. And David Stern was like, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill. But yeah, those guys, you know, and the league would find me over and over again. I remember, like, my first full year, I was in Minnesota, and I'm like, okay, I'm going to get, you know, the towel guys, the equipment guys that just sit there on the floor. I'm going to sit down and just chat with them the whole game. I just want to see their viewpoint.

That would be cool. I got fined $150,000 for conduct. I'm becoming an owner, right? They did everything they could to stop me from being me until Stern just basically said, you know, whatever, right? Just don't talk bad shit about the rest. Then I really got to find me. Oh, go. Yeah, but that didn't stop me either.

They're closer, what, like $2 million? No, more than that. It was a lot more than that, yeah. Worth it? Oh, yeah. Because I knew when I was going to say something that would get me fine, I knew it was going to get me fine. It was worth it. Yeah, yeah.

So we've been talking a lot about the, uh, cow, Boy's documentary on Netflix, America's theme. Oh, I love it. I haven't seen it. Oh, yet? My son, like my 16-year-old, all about the Cowboys, right? Yeah, he's telling me about it. And he's like, today, Dad, I took him to school, right?

He's just starting his sophomore year, and he's a hooper. He's taller than me now, which pisses me off to know it because he can beat me. And so, but we're talking, he's like, you know, they have this thing with Dad Prescott, right? They can't sign him. Like, Dad, why don't you, like, give him like an NIL sponsorship? Give him $5 million a year, and that way he'll stay with the Cowboys. You'll be a hero.

I'd rather have the $5 million a year. Gilden deal with with Michael Parsons is trying to figure out what's going on with that whole situation with Jerry. Before watching his doc, all makes sense. All makes sense. Watching Jerry and all that? Yeah, it's just, it's...

Jerry likes to wait until the last minute all the time. He is, he reminds me of how you started, right? His whole, his whole football entry was attention. I want everyone to talk about this team and his team. No, he was all about marketing. Like, I've talked to Jerry a thousand times, right? Marketing, marketing, he is

a salesperson, one of the best salespeople, marketers, all about the Cowboys. I'm going to make it America's team, and he did, to his credit. You moved to Dallas with the 80s. Were you around during that three Super Bowl run? Oh, yeah. Are you out of the ad and B's getting the active on and getting... Oh, yeah, like... Are you back and forth? Chasing the

Cowboys played the bills and just destroyed them. It was in Pasadena, right? And so we had a connection and me and eight friends got seven tickets. And so we bum rushed them. We literally gave them seven tickets and said, thank you, and just ran through the game. We got to get into the game. And I had this crazy suit on that was like just an overcoat jacket that I bought at Melrose that looked like something Elton John would wear and I had bottles of champagne in the pockets

and I had silly string and so just me and my friends were just crazy back then and so every time the Cowboys would score which was a lot we're shooting silly string and we didn't all have seats because we had more guys than seats. It was insane so yeah I was a Cowboys fan

So what was your relationship like with Jerry Jones you guys run into each other often? Yeah I would say often on each other. No no nothing like that like we call each other and talk about different things, whether it was business or coaches. He would give me advice, yeah, because I respect them a lot, a lot. I remember when I got interviewed by the board of governors, the guy before Dolan that was with the Knicks, he goes to me, you know, try thinking this was an insult.

He goes, are you going to be like that football owner in Dallas when you own the team? And this is right at 2000, so it's only a few years since the Super Bowl. I'm like, win a couple Super Bowls? Championships, yeah, I hope so. And he was like, all mad. But yeah, Jerry and I have always, because we don't want somebody like that. But, yeah, Jerry's always been really good to me. I like Jerry a lot.

Yeah, you know, just watching. I said, if you don't know anything about Jerry or like the history of the Cowboys, you actually love him. Yeah. Because you realize like he's all about the people around him and it's all about Cowboy Nation. It's all he cares about. Like, friends and family, like, if you are part of the group. Yeah, his daughter, you know, and Stephen and Jerry Jr., I know okay, but not well. But Charlotte and I know pretty well, and she's amazing.

She's super smart, and she does a lot of stuff there. Yeah, I got nothing but respect. I was like, man, I want to be a Cowboys fan, but I'm a Rams fan. It's like I'm a Rams fan. I'll be a Jerry fan. Your coach, right? Oh, my God. Yeah, Tim, I'm not Tim.

Sean McVeigh, yeah. Sean McVeyer. Yeah, Jean McVeigh, his mom went to school with me was hot as shit, right? I had the biggest crush on her, but she was dating Tim McVey, a football player in Indiana, so I had no shot, right? I was just this kid from Pittsburgh, like no game, no nothing. And I just remember, oh, my God, Cindy, I won't give you her last name, but she was, and so we got to be friends because I dated a friend of her amazing.

And then all of a sudden, her son wins the Super Bowl and everything. So that's my little connection. You have a lot of connections to the various levels of work. That just means a mold, yeah. A six degrees of separation with the word. But recently CBS Sports released a top 25 players of the 21st century list. They had Dirk ranked 10th on that list. I don't know, other than Dirk, you had a front row seat to see all the guys who were on that top 25 list.

In your opinion, who is the best NBA player in the 21st century? The 2000s. All the way to 2001. To the 20. Okay. So there's agent zero. The whole century. The whole century.

I wish. I'd have to go with Kobe, Shaq, McGrady, Duncan, Dirk, and then you can put any of 15 different guys, right? I know if you didn't say LeBron, I'm a LeBron guy. Yeah, no, LeBron definitely should fit in there. Definitely should fit in there too. I got a problem with that. We have a clutch thing.

No, I'm a LeBron fan, right? I'm a LeBron fan. And even like the MJ versus LeBron, they're two completely different players. Right? You can't even really compare them. If you have a good team and you need a killer, you go MJ. If you have a team that's good and you want them to be better, right? And as a team get to the finals, you go LeBron.

Yeah, MJ is not going to pick up a bad, lift up a bad team. LeBron can. Yeah. And people don't gauge stuff. Yeah. Like, who would I rather have the last shot? MJ. Who's going to help your team get better?

LeBron. I'll take that, Mark. I appreciate that. We've got a couple more questions for you, even though you've got to get out of here. But what do you see is the biggest opportunities and challenges for the NBA over the next decade? I think the whole media space is really funky, right? That social media is more of a connection to fans.

Like, particularly with the NBA, kids today are more fans of the players than they are the teams. Like when we grew up, you're a Lakers fan, right? I'm a Steelers fan, I'm a Pirates, all Pittsburgh teams, right? Now it's just like you see Steph and Steph comes to town and there's a ton of kids with Steph jerseys on. That wasn't going to happen 10 years ago pre-social media. So I think, you know, trying to monetize and recognize that, you know,

social media is going to change and impact how we market our players, market our teams and market our product. I think the fact that private equity is buying into so many teams, I think is a problem because, you know, for the first 20 years that I was an owner, you know, I and other owners too would be pushing a fan experience, fan experience, make it affordable, make it affordable. Now it's all about valuations, you know, and so everybody, you know, if you're a private equity and you have investors in these things called special purpose vehicles, you want to do is the value of the team to go up. And if you're trying to just jack up ticket

prices, jack up cost, jack up merchandise sales, that's not necessarily best for fans. And so I think fans are getting priced out. So I think that's an issue. I think, you know, the ultimate business question for the MBA is how will our games impact streaming subscriptions for our new streaming partners, you know, because one of the reasons these numbers went up so high is Peacock streaming, I think it was them, they did a deal with the NFL, like one special deal for like a playoff game and got like a zillion new subscriber. I was one of them. Right.

And everybody is betting that's what's going to happen. If there's a lot of churn or we don't get those subscriptions for those partners, it's going to be tough for them to, it's going to be tough for them, right? And so I think that's a big issue. But in terms of the players themselves, the NBA is in good hand. In terms of the quality of the game, the NBA is in good shape. In terms of taking it to Europe, like, I think for the whole time I was there, I was like, why are we giving our best players to the Olympics so that Comcast can make a shit ton of money

and the Olympic committee can make? Because the NBA players were the, you know, other, for the summer Olympics, the NBA players were the draw. Yeah. Right. Why are we giving it free? Why don't we create our own World Cup and do like soccer did, right? For the Olympics, 23 and under, great. But let's play Slovenia against, you know, all the different things, all the different countries and own it, it would be enormous.

It would be the biggest basketball event ever. And David Stern and then Adam were like, that's not our deal with FIBA and we can't do it. And I think, you know, now they're trying to put teams in Europe to find a new way to raise revenues and margins and everything. And I think it'll do okay, but they're missing the big opportunity. So I got one last question where you just mentioned Slovenia, obviously, home of Slovenia and Jesus. As it stands now, Dirk, only player with the statue outside the Mazzarina, right? Luke was in Dallas for six and a half seasons. Rookie the year, five-time All-Star, five-time first-team all-NBA selection in that time frame.

would have been more. He did not leave by his own free will. I obviously got shipped off. In your opinion, do you think that Luca deserves the statue somewhere down the road? Sure, absolutely. But it's not my decision.

Mark, we appreciate you taking it. That was a lot of fun, guys. That was a lot of fun. This has been another episode of Gills Arena presented by Underdog. Whoa, whoa! We'll be back with more very soon. That was fun, guys, man.

I wish I didn't have to take one outside of L.A.