Gil's Arena - Mark Jackson GETS REAL On The Knicks, NBA Playoffs & Head Coaching

Starting point is 00:00:00 From commutes that become learning sessions to dishwashing filled with laughs, podcasts can help you make the most out of your everyday. And when it comes to everyday spending, you can count on the PC Insider's World Elite MasterCard to help you earn the most PC Optimum points everywhere you shop. The PC Insider's World Elite MasterCard, the card for living unlimited. Conditions apply to all benefits. Visit pcfinancial.ca for details. Wendy's most important deal of the day has a fresh lineup.

Starting point is 00:00:24 Pick any two breakfast items for $5. New four-piece French toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, English muffin sandwiches, value iced coffee, and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's Taxes Extra. Welcome back to Gilgarina. Forget about $100. We're talking about flashing lights, baby. Flashing lights everywhere. Make some stupid shit about me. Welcome back to Gil's Arena for Dead of a Hundred Y'all Fantasy. We talking about flashing lights, baby. Flashing lights everywhere.

Starting point is 00:00:48 They just been saying shit about me and they didn't even fucking know me. This is my store. This is what I was doing when what nobody knew. Y'all don't know what goes on in practice or the locker room. I'm out. Welcome back to Gil's Arena presented by Underdog Fantasy. Woo-woo! Woo-woo! Let's go! Gil, the internet has some feelings about some things you said yesterday. We will discuss.

Starting point is 00:01:46 They normally do. That's a fact. The Gil Pack was going up. Pretty sure it wasn't smoking too good. I smoke like Reggie. Reginald Bell Johnson. This is Gil Zarina presented by Underdog Fantasy. As always, we've got the legend Gilbert Arenas here with us.

Starting point is 00:02:07 You, you, you. Okay, see you. Representing Tough Crowd, Mr. B, Brandon Jennings. Tough Crowd University. Y'all sign on up. I'm trying to send applications. I be getting offended when he comes with new stuff. Like, I just...

Starting point is 00:02:23 Without, yeah. Like, I just expect, like like we should automatically get the shit Nothing better than when you come with the gift pack I'll know if I'm the only one do like and so where's everybody else? That's not on the website. I know it's a business. I know it's a business, so we got to wait. And we got Kenyon Martin. Back here with it.

Starting point is 00:02:53 Look at that song. Don't do that no more, Steve. Kenyon, give it a normal. Like, yeah, yeah. All right, OG, we're making up we're making up Unspilled milk like even just you got a new bottle Look and we got two special guests pulling up to the arena shortly. I'll give you a little shimmy as a... Oh, do that again? Oh, okay. I'll do that again.

Starting point is 00:03:29 I used to major in modern dance in college, but it's been several years. I'm trying to get it back. We got two guests pulling up shortly, but here's what's cracking in the arena today. The Knicks got the best of the Pacers in game one, but what can the Pacers do to slow down Jalen Brunson and the rest of the Nova Knicks in game two? Pat Riley went at Jimmy Butler and expressed uncertainty about when or if the Heat would give Butler an extension, but what does this

Starting point is 00:03:51 mean for playoff Jimmy's future in South Beach? Oh, I like that one. Why y'all give Pat Riley the mean mug like that? Like he just ate a lemon. And even without the likely... He ain't got no bottom jib. One more time. One more time.

Starting point is 00:04:07 Sure. Them dentures, boy. They forgot him. And even without the likely defensive player of the year, Ant-Man and the Wolves wax the nuggets and take a 2-0 lead in the series. But is the broom coming soon? We talked about it yesterday. It's looking a little shaky in Denver.

Starting point is 00:04:23 Throwing heat packs on the court. They getting emotional. But before we get into all that, as always, this show is brought to you by Underdog Fantasy. If you have not done so already, download the app. Use promo code GIL and they will match your first deposit up to $100. You heard that right. You get a $100 deposit match when you download the Underdog Fantasy app.

Starting point is 00:04:39 Use promo code GIL. So the most popular picks of the night are on the screen below. So ride with them or fade them. But have fun tonight watching the games and playing Pick'em. So today's popular picks, Donovan Mitchell higher over 27.5 points. He's been balling. Kyrie higher over 24.5 points.

Starting point is 00:04:56 Derek White higher over 16.5 points. And SGA higher over 28.5 points. We gave you some picks on GIL's arena yesterday. If you were wise, you would have rolled with us. Because we got5 points. We gave you some picks on Gil's Arena yesterday. If you were wise, you would have rolled with us because we got the win. We're back. We're back.

Starting point is 00:05:10 All win, right? All hit. All hit. Sweet. That's what's up. Appreciate you to our resident Knicks expert for giving me that OG and a no-be. Three-pointer. And as always, we do Mostly Fans at the end of every show.

Starting point is 00:05:27 So if you drop a good question in the chat with your underdog fantasy username, we use it on the show, you get a $50 bonus. If you send us a video at MostlyFansGitlerGmail.com, include your underdog fantasy username, and we use that question on the show. $100 bonus to your underdog fantasy account. Kane, they said they're sending you the money for the question yesterday. It's in transit right now. I need my scratch. And we do this show live Monday through Thursdays

Starting point is 00:05:45 11 30 a.m pacific. You can't rock with us live on YouTube. We got audio versions available on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast from. So we're going to start with another Frenchman first on this episode before we get to the Go Bear discussion. So Wimby had one of the most dominant rookie seasons in league history and on Monday Monday, the NBA named him Rookie of the Year. I think it was expected, but it's now official. He averaged 21 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists in a league leading 3.6 blocks per game. And became the first player in league history

Starting point is 00:06:14 with over 1,500 points, 700 rebounds, 250 assists, 250 blocks, and 103 pointers made in a season. He's also a finalist for Defensive Player of the Year. But that may go to another freshman who we'll discuss made in a season. He's also a finalist for Defensive Player of the Year, but that may go, too. Another Frenchman who we'll discuss later in the show. Wimby is the first Spur since Tim Duncan to win Rookie of the Year,

Starting point is 00:06:32 and he's the sixth unanimous winner and first since Cat in 2016. Did Wimby live up to the hype his rookie season? He says Tim Duncan, so the last number one pick? Okay. Just pointing it out here. Had to think about it like he's trying to he got it so all the number one pigs one look at here okay so somewhere a little bit older yeah they do good at drafting fives yeah fours fives big man they they're pretty good

Starting point is 00:06:59 at that one they don't miss they don't miss motherfucker that day you know what yeah yeah shit he gonna be pretty and they own there yeah it's like whenever They don't miss they don't miss Motherfucker that day. You know what? Yeah, shit, he gonna be pretty and they'll know. Yeah, it's like whenever there's a top five It's like somehow they always get it. I ain't gonna lie They've been very well in that lottery When there's a nice big man coming him Go ahead Generational change when they needed one right every time they need someone Yeah, anytime they need a day Dave was getting ready to come out.

Starting point is 00:07:26 And we need a backup. We need a great foreman. Oh, shit, Tim Nugget's coming. Oh, shit, Tim Nugget's coming. Oh, shit. Wimby came into this season with a ton of hype. Did Wimby live up to the hype his rookie season? I think he exceeded it.

Starting point is 00:07:43 I think he exceeded it, yeah. Yeah, because we talked about it in he exceeded it, yeah. Yeah. Because we talked about it in the summer before, expectations. Yeah. He knocked it out the park. Knocked the shit out the park. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:07:51 His exhibit was dope that they did for him. Yeah, with fanatics. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fanatics. How all the old rookies of the year sent a little message to him

Starting point is 00:08:00 congratulating him and helping him push forward, I guess. It was pretty dope. So we saw when we did this rookie season what are your expectations for when being year two now making that jump from rookie now to i mean it's to be honest it's just so hard to to really understand what he is what he has what his capability is because it's it's new Right. I mean when when he came they showed us all the the score and an offensive ability had the one-legged threes the

Starting point is 00:08:36 The shimmies and all that we've never no one ever talked about the defensive part of it. No one's that's no one even considered any of this right so the fact that he he is today dominating the defensive side his office is gonna catch up so He's gonna take over there's gonna be a year where he runs the table on all Accolades because most of time that's where most young guys and rookies struggle is on the defensive side of the ball because the game's so fast. Hi there, I'm Ryan Reynolds, and I have a list

Starting point is 00:09:12 of things I like to have on set. It's just little things like two freshly cracked eggs scrambled with crispy hash brown, sausage, crumble, and creamy chipotle sauce from Tim Hortons. From my rider to Tim's menu, try my new scrambled eggs loaded breakfast box. When does fast grocery delivery through Instacart matter most? When your famous grainy mustard potato salad isn't so famous without the grainy mustard. When the barbecue's lit,

Starting point is 00:09:35 but there's nothing to grill. When the in-laws decide that, actually, they will stay for dinner. Instacart has all your groceries covered this summer, so download the app and get delivery in as fast as 60 minutes. Plus enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart. Groceries that over-deliver. He averaged 3.6, right? And the game was moving a mile a minute probably for him.

Starting point is 00:10:04 He averaged 3.6 That's another block and a half when the game slow down when the game slow down You didn't get to have five. Whoo. Well eat here be a five easy special with this pace in the league I'm gonna say he's a rookie and this is what yeah Yeah, it was 3.6 as a rookie in the game like he don't know how to play NBA basketball yet the last month and a half what we were seeing He was starting to figure it out Like oh shit. I can get this shot off. I could do this defense I can hmm

Starting point is 00:10:37 Give him a summer with Shit is stronger. Yeah Then if he go play in the Olympics, that's only going to help him coming into this. Yeah. It's going to get scary. It's going to be scary next year. You ain't going to have to wait.

Starting point is 00:10:55 This is the thing. People think it's going to be another three, four years. No, it's going to be next year. Do you think he can MVP type year? I don't know what the team will win? I don't know if the team wins. I don't know what the set tone they will put around him.

Starting point is 00:11:07 You know how that shit is. But he averaged 21-11. How many assists you say? Five. Close to four, 3.9. Four assists, three and a half blocks. How many steals? Let me pull it up.

Starting point is 00:11:22 I'm just saying. Like 1.3, 1 point five, something like that. It's a fucking problem. It's a young 19-year-old problem that we have right before our eyes. Like that shooter, what they call an alien? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a loser. We got a freak.

Starting point is 00:11:37 That was perfect. We had a freak first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Now we got the... Now we got an alien. And what he can possibly be doing in this league in the next three, four years, is like you just said, ain't nobody seen it.

Starting point is 00:11:54 Nobody has seen somebody dominate both sides of the ball like he could possibly do. In this NBA, the way he can shoot it, he's going to get better at shooting the ball. Can't nobody block it. He's going to put on a little weight. He's not going to be bulky at no point. Just how he built. He's going to get a little stronger, but then learn how to play. He can get a shot off on anybody.

Starting point is 00:12:15 Like anybody in the league. And with a team that didn't know how to get him the ball. With a team that didn't know how to get him the ball. With a team that didn't know how to get him. What happens when he gets a guard that can shoot? Let's say he does

Starting point is 00:12:29 get a Trae Young over there. That's an MVP. Hey, shit, if he got a James Harden over there, you're talking about a guy who's going to put so much pressure on these little lobs right here. You think about the Capellas, they be getting those easy little buckets, scoring like 15 on little shit like that.

Starting point is 00:12:47 What happens when you have a real talent who's getting those plus his own offense? Because he getting five lobs a game for Trae Young. Yeah. Just say if it's Trae Young. He's getting at least five a game. And that's 10 right there. That's 10 points. Because can't nobody get to it.

Starting point is 00:13:03 Nope. All he got to do, listen, he get to it no all you got to do listen he getting them up what you're gonna do is the trade gonna average 50 or it's gonna be one of the two because he's gonna be floating the shit he's going yeah what's so funny is how we know will scored is 100 it can be the same way run straight down i'm just gonna throw it all the way up i'm not gonna it ain't gonna be one of those stories gonna be all the way up there you don't get it ah it's either that or I'm a school and you free throw one of those finger roll in the front of you don't like three there's no no making threes and free throw yeah so he's gonna shoot the ball He's going to work on his shot more this summer. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:46 And continue to do it. The kid's going to be a fucking... Wamba, Wamba. It's going to be fun to watch. It's exciting. It's a lot of exciting stuff. We all were like, when the season started, we were like, we think it's going to play well. Just didn't know what it was going to look like.

Starting point is 00:14:02 Now we got to see it. I'm like, okay, all right. Yikes. Yeah. Wamba Wamba, as Rasheed Wallace called it. So for y'all on the couch, how much easier did the game come to you in your second season compared to your rookie year?

Starting point is 00:14:19 For me, the second season, because you got through it, right? So whatever you was expecting, it's like your first game, first day of school. You don't know what to expect, right? You know, your brain is moving to the first day of high school. Huh? The first day of high school, you know what I mean? And so that's the same thing in your first year in the NBA.

Starting point is 00:14:42 You start really getting a knack for it towards the end, right? And once you feel it, now you know how to prepare for that summer. Because when you're coming out of college, you're just preparing. You don't know what you're preparing for. So you don't know if you're doing the right things, wrong things. So when you're first season, when you're done, you know how to train now. You know how to prepare for the next season coming. So usually the second season is little bit easier for for everyone you know some guys come into the league and they

Starting point is 00:15:10 destroy that motherfucker off the jump if you was training him well if somebody asked you if you was training him what would your emphasis be for him this summer um probably getting on the block a little bit understand like like duck-in methods, turn around, fade away, and he learns how to fucking just turn around, fade away. So have you watched his footwork yet? Not yet. Is it good?

Starting point is 00:15:36 No, I don't know yet. It should be all right. I mean, he's a guard too, so it should be better than a natural big man. Cause I don't think, yeah, he not stumbling around. He don't have them big, ginormous fucking feet, I don't think. Nah, like, you know, the one thing about the Euros, they're training... Everyone trains like a guard.

Starting point is 00:15:52 Yeah, for sure. So usually those big men already have the footwork. Mm-hmm. So with him, it's most likely learning how to just catch it there, turn fade. Like, once he just... The MJ, once they turn fade. No one's blocking that. The Kevin Garnett. The Kevin Garnett.

Starting point is 00:16:07 The Shee Wallace. Yep. Once he gets that into him, just understanding duck-ins and how to push people up, learn turn lobs. Because once he understands that part of the game,

Starting point is 00:16:19 the outside, that becomes easier. Everyone knows you're not going inside now, so it's easy for us to push up on him. Once he starts, all right, I'm going to push up on them Yeah, once he starts all right. I mean dominate turn fade turn little hooks Just one drip. Yeah, the same block Tim Duncan used to post up. Yeah, he dominate that block

Starting point is 00:16:33 It's over if I'm if I'm them that's that's what I'm gonna give him because he already has the perimeter He already has that game. He's never gonna lose that package you give him this package So when the game starts changing form Yeah, he already's dominant down there. I'm with you Maybe where the size 20 and a half shoe, but on a 7 foot 3 play soccer to yeah That's right. He probably should cat. Well what we had to do a lot of fun. He were 23 22 23 Yeah, yeah, he's got some big ass feet. He looked like I mean he shaped like these were the 20 size 20, okay? Yeah, it's just at a much. You know I'm saying his feet. He look like he should have been growing just a little bit longer. Yeah

Starting point is 00:17:10 a little bit more interesting finish down Jack was a 23 which is Very limited shoe selection, but we have to chat did when we live up to the height We got over 3,000 votes 74% said yes But 6% of our haters said no and then 20% said exceeded it. Oh I'm like what the fuck the rest of the percentage it was the rest the 6% that said no damn Yeah, I got some very high standards so who could they be fans of then if he didn't? So who got second if he was unanimous, right?

Starting point is 00:17:48 Yeah. So, never mind. All right, let's keep this thing moving. Got to talk a little heat. So after the Heat won game two, Jimmy Butler did a little trolling while sidelined with a right knee injury, mocking Jalen Brown's infamous don't let us get one post from the previous season. But the Celtics ratted off three straight wins to advance to the Eastern Semis.

Starting point is 00:18:08 So this weekend, Butler was at Rock the Bells and had this to say about the Heat's postseason, how the Heat's postseason would have looked if he was healthy. If I was playing, Boston would be at home. New York damn sure would be fucking at home. sure before I mean I love to you the lady I want to beat you to a pole no no no turn turn that off the bed that's what I'm doing. So he... That's it.

Starting point is 00:18:48 He, team president, Pat Riley, met with the media on Monday to discuss the state of the franchise and had this to say about Jimmy's comments. You know, for him to say that, you know, I thought, is that Jimmy trolling or is that Jimmy serious, you know? If you're not on the court playing against Boston or on the court playing against the New York Knicks, you should keep your mouth shut. What do y'all think about Pat's reaction

Starting point is 00:19:18 to Jimmy? The fact that when he said, I don't know if he's trolling, kind of feels like he's adapted Jimmy's two parts of him. You know what I mean? Because he could have just said, just shut the fuck up. And everybody would be like, yeah, that's Pat Riley being Pat Riley. So the fact he gave him a little grace, like, I don't know if it's Jimmy trolling or not. Trolling. But I mean, it's, you know, like, you know, players are like that too.

Starting point is 00:19:43 What he said, I remember I was talking shit to shit when I saw the shit of Dwayne Wade and Larry had to guard him He gave us 40 and you know, he's like, oh man, like stop talking shit to people you ain't garden So, you know it is a thing like if you ain't out there man just go ahead shut it yeah shut up so riley also said that he'd have no intention of trading butler oh wait hold on a second i'm fucking up so he finished eighth in the east for the second straight season but without playoff jimmy weren't able to replicate the finals round they made last year according to anthony chang of the miami harrell butler is looking for a max extension this offseason and will likely request it from the Heat on July 7th when he becomes eligible. The Heat don't have to give him extension, I think, until the summer of 2025,

Starting point is 00:20:31 but he's trying to get the ball rolling a little bit early. But when asked about Butler's extension, Riley had this to say. That's a big decision on our part to commit, you know, that kind of, those kinds of resources, unless you have somebody who's really going to be there, you know, available every single night. That's the truth. So Riley also said that he'd have no intention of trading Butler, but since joining the Heat in 2019,

Starting point is 00:21:03 Butler's missed 100 regular season games, seven playoff games, never played more than 64 games in a season, and missed 25 games this season, including the playoffs. So, should the Heat give Jimmy Butler a max extension, or is it time for them to blow up this roster? From that message, it looks like they're going to have to wait. They're going to have to wait for a minute. You can ask if you want. They're going to have to wait

Starting point is 00:21:19 until 2025, from that message. Wait, is he a free agent? No, he's never. He's got a couple years left on his contract. I think two more years left on his deal. So he's trying to just get out there. Trying to get that bread. I think he'd be somewhere in the range of like a two-year, $113, $15 million extension.

Starting point is 00:21:36 Not right now. Ain't happening, Jack. Not right now. You don't think so? No, sir. Somebody that's not available. I'm not saying you get the man. No, but he's got a player option in 2025, too. Take it. No, what I'm saying is,

Starting point is 00:21:50 the reason I'm saying is, if they're planning on keeping him, he's at his cheapest point right now because he's not making an all-NBA team. So giving him the max now versus he makes an all-NBA team and I got to pay him super max. Jimmy's not making an all-NBA team and I got to pay him super max. Jimmy's not making an all-NBA team

Starting point is 00:22:06 no time soon. He's not healthy enough. But if he didn't know what I'm saying is, he's not making an all-NBA because he's not even eligible for it without the 65 games. What happens when he's eligible?

Starting point is 00:22:14 Well, he got to play the 65 games though, right? He's never played more than 64. If he does play 65 games, is Jimmy top 15 in the NBA? Top 20? No, they're not even having? Regular season? Top 20? Nah.

Starting point is 00:22:28 So that's... But you don't want that motherfucker to be like, all right. Well, if he leads to a championship, he ain't going to care. Hey, motherfucking Pat and Mick Aronson are like, okay, show me. They want that motherfucker like, show me. Right? You say you that dude, so guess what? We're going to hold this thing over here that you want and, hey. You can compete for it. You can go out and you made it to the finals, but that.

Starting point is 00:22:55 No, I'm not. It's my thing is if you're going to keep him, right? My thing is if you don't have no plans to change him because you know what he looks like when he plays. Yeah. What happens during that contract year? Like, we know contract players come up. Absolutely. And he decides to bring Jimmy, playoff Jimmy, into the regular season to get to the 65.

Starting point is 00:23:14 Now I got to pay him super max. You don't have to pay him, though. That's the thing. You don't have to pay him. They have leverage. You can let him walk. He can play great. It still didn't lead to no championship, so what are we talking about here?

Starting point is 00:23:31 In their eyes, in the Miami Heat eyes, this is Pat Riley. They didn't lead to no championship, so what are we talking about here, right? So, we can let you walk. You played great. Okay, cool. Jimmy Butler playing at his best is going to average what

Starting point is 00:23:45 during the regular season? 24 23 22 maybe like we hoopers and we Jimmy Butler changes the needle

Starting point is 00:23:53 for teams when he's engaged yes absolutely right and that's this is peak Jimmy 24 25

Starting point is 00:24:01 is that enough? for what? 24, 25. Mm-hmm. Let me see. Is that enough? For what? For where this NBA is going next year? In that Eastern Conference of teams, we see the things that's being done. Like, you just got to... I just don't like the idea that they said

Starting point is 00:24:20 they're not trading them. So if you're not trading them, then you... You got to play it out. Yeah, and see how you do, because he said he're not trading them. So if you're not trading them, then you got to play it out You're gonna play it out. Yeah, see how you do because he said he's not available Pat thing is somebody who hasn't played this is his words somebody who hasn't played with missing games So they paying attention to it. That's the question mark on the so Yeah, his name up on the board read is the question mark, right? If he play if he come out next year play games, they make a deep playoff run, then there's a different conversation maybe at the end of the season.

Starting point is 00:24:50 But I don't think it happens before that. Yeah. Because there's no need for them to have the conversation before that. No, you don't. Before the end of next season. Not during, the end of next season. End of next season. Yes.

Starting point is 00:25:04 So like right now, there would be... There's nothing to talk about. What I'm saying is he would know if he made a team or not. But if he ends up making a team next year, there's no talking. But you can let him walk, though. Now he wants 50 more million. So, therefore, you can let somebody else give him their 50 more million. Miami's not tripping.

Starting point is 00:25:19 We just sit back. And then you lost Jimmy Butler and got back nothing? What do we get for him? Do we get a championship? No, so that's what I'm saying So this is if he brings the championship and he wants the money he make the first second 13 I bring on a name so this team bringing on championship. So that's that's what would that's what patent of thing missing games You're not available. We need him be trolling You fucking with people you ain't playing. Listen, you put the target on these guys back that's actually out here available for us.

Starting point is 00:25:53 And this is Pat Riley we're talking about. This is not nobody. This is Pat Riley we're talking about. No nuns. It's that new style. It's that regular max and that super max. And that wears two different things. So it's like when you're sitting there negotiating, you're really negotiating against yourself on a player that's regular max and super max. You got these two windows.

Starting point is 00:26:20 Is that I'm going to give you the max or I'm gonna give you the super max and even if I don't give you the super Max you're gonna be once you hit all NBA. Yeah, you're you're more than the regular madness So imagine a lot of players got a really a lot of teams got to really look at and value a players and try to Figure out who can possibly jump into that next realm and beat it before you get there Yeah, then you looking at who else is gonna Like somebody like Murray. He comes available, right? Yeah, he'll be up. So you're looking at who else is going to be available

Starting point is 00:26:48 when Jimmy's deal is over. So even if you... Next summer, right? Next summer, right? Let's say when you trade him, like let's say you wanted to trade him, sign and trade him, you can't even sign and trade him

Starting point is 00:26:57 for a Supermax player. Yeah. So even if you're trying to get back a superstar... No, you can't. So you let him off. Because he ain't even working. He's signing somebody in free agency next summer.

Starting point is 00:27:07 That's what I'm saying. And how old is he? You play it out. Is he 32? Then you see who's available next summer. Like who all is going to be free when he's up. I'm playing it out. I'm playing it out.

Starting point is 00:27:21 Do you just break it up? Break what up? Nothing. That's what I'm saying. Break what up? Yeah, that's what I'm playing it out. If I'm them. Do you just break it up? And seeing. But break what up? Nothing. That's what I'm saying. Break what up? Yeah. That's what I'm saying. They don't have anything.

Starting point is 00:27:29 You can let Jimmy Walken add a piece and you're not missing. They don't need three. They don't have anything. Like you can let Jimmy Walken add another piece and you're not missing. Somebody who. And you're not missing anything because of how they play. Right? You can.

Starting point is 00:27:39 That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Because they play team ball. What I'm saying is with the team they have. Let's just be honest. With the team they have. It ain't no championship team. Yeah, right You got two players who are technically like a second and a third option

Starting point is 00:27:49 Do you just break the team up and just make it just bottom feeding team? Or you try to use them to to get a generational player, but you don't really have yeah, but you Bam is a four. I don't like him at the other. He's a's a four. Let's start there. He needs to play his natural position, so you need to help him in that regard, right? Jimmy Butler. Talented, but if I, right now, he has always had the problem, but had a problem recently putting the ball in the basket as a team.

Starting point is 00:28:19 You need scoring. You're going to play the way you're going to play no matter what. Defensively, you're going to compete. So that's never a question with the Miami Heat. The guys who we look at as lesser defenders look well in the Miami Heat organization because of how they play. Yep. For me, I'm looking at somebody like Zach Levine that's coming up, right?

Starting point is 00:28:42 I think, shit, on that team, Zack Levine can average a motherfucking 28 yeah and he gonna look the average 28 yeah 30 like for him not tomorrow on the team so somebody like that I'm looking at all you coming available to shit Jim but I'm just I'm that Jimmy walk if I can get exactly mean or just who else is coming available that's at that guard position that can score that is going to be up for money here soon, right? There's a couple guys. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:11 That's a little bit younger. That's a little bit younger and just, you never know. You never know, but I'm just- Yeah, you don't have to extend them and shit, right? So I understand you want it, but you don't have to. And we ain't. They said they're not. I'm trying to figure out, why the fuck is Miami having a press conference on a Monday?

Starting point is 00:29:32 On a Monday, motherfucker. This is Pat's scheduled day. I ain't got shit to do with y'all season over with. Pat normally talks on Mondays. Last one of the season. Is he the only person that does that I don't know I've never seen so Matt Ishby I met with the media last week from Phoenix. I'm just saying they're doing kind of their he up there bitch delusional They do have the ex-summit illusion or as they come always gonna stick of what we got like no you not

Starting point is 00:30:03 Yeah, Pat. I said he hadn't met with Jimmy. I think Jimmy had been at the facility in recent days, but Pat hadn't actually. He said, he wasn't in my office, but... Is that my fuck? Boy. Pat, hey. Pat cool until he ain't.

Starting point is 00:30:20 Pat cool until winning ain't involved. To them rings. He want that ring. Pat cool until you jeopardize winning and what we building. I love you, you can have your coffee, we can do all that shit, you can stay in the Airbnb, do all that shit on the road you want. But when you jeopardize winning around here, now we need to have another conversation. Facts. So let's talk a little bit more about winning, specifically with the Wolves.

Starting point is 00:30:46 So Ant-Man and the Wolves stunned the Nuggets in game one to take home court from the defending champs. And they came into game two without likely defensive player of the year, Rudy Gobert, who missed the game for personal reasons for the birth of his child. But still got it done. The Wolves jumped out on the Nuggets early with aggressive play on both sides of the ball. They had Nuggets players and Michael Malone throwing tantrums. The Wolves held the Nuggets to 35 points in the first half, taking a 26-point lead into the break. Ant-Man followed up his playoff career high 43 points in Game 1 by dropping 27 points in Game 2, along with 7 assists and 2 steals, going 11-for-17 from the field. And at one

Starting point is 00:31:22 point during the game, Ant was getting MVP champs from the Nuggets crowd. Cat had a big game as well finishing with 27 points and 12 rebounds he was 10 for 15 from the field 3 for 5 from 3. Nas Reid also had another solid game off the bench with 14 points and 5 rebounds hit four threes in the game. So Nikola Jokic on the other side struggled a little bit finished with 16 points 16 rebounds, eight assists, but also had four turnovers and was five for 13 from the field in the game. Aaron Gordon led the Nuggets with 20 points, but Jamal Murray had his worst game of the playoffs while still battling a calf injury, finishing with just eight points while going three for 18 from the field and 0 for 4 from 3.

Starting point is 00:32:01 Nuggets shot 35% from the field in the game, going 29 for 83, and the Wolves held the Nuggets shot 35% from the field in the game going 29 for 83. And the Wolves held the Nuggets under 100 points for the second straight game and fourth time this season. They won each of those games when they've done that. So the Nuggets are the second defending champ in playoff history to lose the first two games of a series at home, joining the 2011 Lakers. For those who don't remember, they got swept by the Mavs. But let's just look at this Wolf squad. How impressive is the Wolf smacking the nuggets in game two without Rudy Gobert?

Starting point is 00:32:32 Very impressive. And they punked them. They came out flat out, just punked them. I mean, that was some crazy defense they were playing, too. I haven't seen no defense like that in a minute in the NBA, like some AAU type style. Yeah. Trapping.

Starting point is 00:32:48 That one possession with Jamal Murray, they had him just, he was like just all, just gone. But no, they just looked like they wanted more. I mean, you know, they punked them. They did exactly what anybody would do when this is the only two people you got that's creating offense. I'm going to run at them. You're going to pass it, give it back. I'm going to run back at them.

Starting point is 00:33:11 No, you're going to let KCP be the point guard now. They did exactly what you should have been doing with this team. Run at them. Don't let them play one-on-one. Don't let them play the pick and roll. Trap it. Blitz it. Let them beat us

Starting point is 00:33:32 Let them create some office. Let me see what kind of shimmy shake he got you know when he got the ball Me and KJ was watching that shit. We was laughing last night body like yeah exactly what you're saying like shit I know 27 know how to play basketball. He's good. Yeah. I want to see it five know how to play basketball. He's good. I want to see five know how to play. God damn it. Yeah. Show me five. If Nikola is not on the floor, I don't know if you figured it out. They not letting Jamal Murray play basketball. People. They doubling Nikola. They flipping

Starting point is 00:33:58 at the ball. They using their hands. They being aggressive. They climbed in their goddamn jersey and they made a point. This is the way this shit finna be. A, me and B was talking before the show. I done been on both sides of them. I done been swept. I done did the sweeping.

Starting point is 00:34:19 I ain't never lost the first two games at home. In the sweep. So the times I've been swept, the first two was at home in the sweep. So the times I've been swept, the first two was on the road. They got the momentum coming in our building. You going to somebody's house down 0-2?

Starting point is 00:34:39 Man, they finna go back to the target center with their chest poked out. It's going to be jumping in that thing This one might get out worse than game No facts because what there's nothing more intimidating or discouraging in sports then when you can't score. There's nothing more intimidating or frustrating

Starting point is 00:35:08 than when you can't score. Just think, any sport that you can think of where there's an offensive, most offensive defense, when you can't score, there's nothing more irritating, frustrated,

Starting point is 00:35:23 debilitating, like you do it's and They have a recipe now on how they gonna play y'all mm-hmm And they're not gonna stop and y'all looking for the refs for help and they're not giving it to you They didn't even give you a coach a ticket. He got in the refs face. Yeah, he was not getting jacked We not bailing you out. You gonna sit there and take this ass, whoopie. When have you

Starting point is 00:35:50 seen that? When I saw it in the game, I thought about it. It's a history of us watching this game or being in this game. Right. When have you seen a coach do go ballistic like that? And the ref does absolutely nothing. I know what you're trying to do. You're trying to get kicked out.

Starting point is 00:36:05 Move around. Go over there. You're finishing this. I know what you're trying to do. You're trying to get kicked out. Yeah. No, no, no, no. Move around. Go over there. No, no, you're finishing this one. Yeah, you're finishing this one. And I'm telling you, man, Minnesota got a recipe. Once you figure out a team, how you can beat a team, and that's it. We're not going to let Jamal Murray play.

Starting point is 00:36:21 We're going to double Nicola. We're going to make it hard. We're going to reach for the ball. We don't care about whether we foul or not. Be aggressive. Try to let Jamal Murray play. We're going to double Nicola. We're going to make it hard. We're going to reach for the ball. We don't care about if we foul or not. Be aggressive. Try to play defense without fouling, but if you hold fucking well. That was, they literally messed up their sub rotation. Because usually you try to keep one in, and they let you know,

Starting point is 00:36:44 no, no, no, no. That's not how you're going to play today. You have one in, we're just going to double him the whole time. The whole day. Right? We're not going to let you rest Jokic, let Murray play, and then flip-flop, and then come back. No, no, no. As soon as you sub one out, that other one catching his ass whooping.

Starting point is 00:37:02 Yeah. He catching his heat by himself. We're going to jump him. We're going heat by himself. We're going to jump him. We're going to jump him. We're going to jump him. We're whooping his ass. And that's what they did. It's like, they got so comfortable with it.

Starting point is 00:37:13 Right, sub. Murray, go. He get off. Sub. And we know he's not healthy all the way neither. Picking a full court. Full court traveling. He can't move like that.

Starting point is 00:37:30 Dude, it is. that was that was that but see that's where coaching comes in now So when when when someone says a scout report, this is when? Don't even want to bring it ham This is what strategy looks like when it comes to opponents They looked at something that said, all right, when these two are separated, who are they? Let's put it to the test. They're showing you what a game plan looks like. Fuck the offensive part. Look at the game plan. When one subs out, they are attacking the other one. Making him look at sub the nigga back in.

Starting point is 00:38:08 Or sub me out too. I'm not going to just catch this by myself. I'm about to take it a step further. This exposes the Denver Nuggets the rest of the

Starting point is 00:38:22 three, but their bench and the lack of jobgets the rest of the three but their bench hmm and the lack of Job that the front office has done to put bodies around the mother to like they can't like They will always be available when they are available people ain't gonna let them play basketball like they're proven They ain't always have it on you got to put pieces around. Yep And catch and shoot now Michael Porter you got to put this bitch on the catch and shoot now i'm michael porter you got to put this bitch on the deck we're closing out to your body yep right that's the difference there's a clip during the game nazri they made two threes and going you close out short he just missed it

Starting point is 00:38:55 like no attention to detail they closing out to your body they're not giving you certain plays they're taking things away and to your point gil like yeah we want to like no you're gonna need both of them yeah because if you don't this is a like this is this is literally they're literally saying all right either y'all gonna play 48 minutes you're gonna play both of them 48 minutes or one's gonna get tired trying to do what he can he can possibly do to it and that's what that but that's that's all culture So when people talk about coaching and strategies you're seeing a different strategy That a that a that a coach put in that doesn't look the same as the previous before and you know what else is helping them Finch dude is the head coach, right? Listen to the game, listen to game three,

Starting point is 00:39:53 the coach that's doing, I don't know the guy's name that took over this, right? He's their head scout, so you can tell he's calling out all the stuff. So he knows, so here's the, like just imagine how we was with Lawrence Frank, right? Lawrence knew everything, every scouted, so you can tell he's calling out all the stuff. So he knows. Just imagine how we was with Lawrence Frank, right? Lawrence knew everything, every play everybody was doing. He became my head coach. Right?

Starting point is 00:40:15 Yep. He knows every play of everything of everybody doing, so he's standing up and he's calling all the sets out with the ball going because he's had the scout sets out with the ball going. Because he's had the scout. That's been his job.

Starting point is 00:40:31 So he's already tuned in to what they need to do. So he's calling it out. And them dudes think. Them young boys was running around like that. And that altitude. Trapping and moving like that. And that altitude. Hey, man. But this ain't nothing new right I know we're guessing this ain't

Starting point is 00:40:50 nothing new because they haven't been dominant all year that was the reason that I was like shade deserves this because this team didn't expect it right that's why he deserves this in the absolute the champion, if the finals MVP, right? They didn't come into the season dominating like the previous champions did. They didn't come back into the season holding down the fort, right? They did not show anybody any fear but the Lakers. But the Lakers. Everybody, no one else was was afraid of them, right? So they haven't been in championship mode this whole season. This is not unexpected.

Starting point is 00:41:30 If you look at the last series, where I did some notes, they lost, Lakers were up four out of the five first quarters. Lakers was up three out of five second quarters. Lakers was up all five half times. Denver was up, they won all five third quarters. They both tied

Starting point is 00:41:58 in fourth quarter 1-1 in three ties. Right? So, out of all the quarters, 25 quarters, Lakers won 13, Denver won nine, three ties. Now, that's the Lakers, right? That's the Lakers and the inexperience of the coaching staff themselves, right?

Starting point is 00:42:16 Not understanding detail. Absolutely. Right? Where the Lakers' offense was shaky in the second half. This other team don't have that fucking problem. where the Lakers' offense was shaky in the second half. This other team don't have that fucking problem. They don't have identity problems in this game. So the Denver that showed up against the Lakers that's been showing up all season,

Starting point is 00:42:35 this is what it looks like. These are not the champions of last year. They've been figured out. That team that they whooped their ass for one, they sat back, took that ass whooping and said, all right, we're going to circle this, and we think we got them, and they've turned up a notch when Denver has digressed.

Starting point is 00:43:00 But nobody's looked at it because they've beaten up on the same poor Lakers. But they didn't get better either, though though this summer like they didn't add anything like it's yeah Like it was just like the Bucks like when the Bucks won They didn't add anything the next year is like they think they can just run it back with the same yeah, because they thought that the Perry kid and the brown kid and Zeke Najee like they thought they were going to develop into something to help. Mm-hmm All right. Yeah and holiday Different though, but you got like like me when the Warriors and the Cavs was going at it. They were adding they were added pieces

Starting point is 00:43:39 They're adding pieces. That's why they're going back. We got some special guests joining the arena. All right, I'm just going to go right here. So making their debut inside Gill's Arena, he's a New York City point guard that was a first round pick by the Nixon and 1988 Rookie of the Year that went on to play 17 seasons in the league. He's also sixth on the NBA's all-time assist leaders list. We got, mama, there goes that that man mr. Mark Jackson in the building and we're also joined by his son who was a singer songwriter producer I'm good. What's up, brother? How you doing? Good to see you. No, it's all good.

Starting point is 00:44:25 So Mark and Mark, we appreciate you pulling up. I remember I saw you at the UCLA Colorado football game. You said you need to come pull up the arena. You said whenever y'all want. Finally made it happen. You here. You put the pressure on. I had to.

Starting point is 00:44:43 Just lightly. Just lightly. I always see him at the bagel shop. Don't tell our business. Do you get bagels? Yeah, I get little bagels, man. I'm a little bageler. I'm a little bageler. How about y'all doing, man? Everything's good, man. Congrats with everything. You guys killing it, man.

Starting point is 00:44:55 Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for doing it. So thanks for pulling up. But everybody out there, be sure to subscribe to the Come and Talk to Me channel on YouTube to get all the episodes of the Mark Jackson Show. Y'all been, what, 41 episodes deep now? Been going to favor you. I've been going hard, man. I've been seeing all the stuff y'all been doing. So, for

Starting point is 00:45:12 both of y'all, you launched the podcast with Underdog, whoop, whoop, a few months ago. What's the transition been like for you from coaching to broadcasting to now being a podcaster? Well, it's been great, and you guys can attest to it. nothing like doing something with family So having a blast chopping it up as if we're sitting at the kitchen table having fun with it

Starting point is 00:45:32 Disagreeing agreeing stubborn son, you know how that works It's been fun though, it's been a lot of fun and it's going episodes are going by quick Yeah, now y'all been zooming through it. I remember when y'all first launched and now looking where y'all at, getting big time guests like Patrick Ewing amongst other people. So Blue, obviously you have you in the music game, but now making this transition into podcasting. Yes sir.

Starting point is 00:45:56 What's your favorite part about being able to do a show with your pops? Whoo, man. Honestly, my favorite part is being able to just say what I want to say, man. Cause you know my pop, no for real, my pops, y'all know, he real PC, he's going to say the right thing. So I get the opportunity to be Gil on our show. I get to come and say what I get to say. He always, he reel me back in. So that's been my favorite part.

Starting point is 00:46:17 He got to reel you back in. So we've been talking a little bit about this Nuggets-Wolves series, but some actually wanted to get all your opinions on it. And Gil, you gave your opinion yesterday. The Internet responded very quickly. So Rudy Gobert missed the game. Most of them had a father anyway, so that's the reason. That's the reason that they mad, because their father didn't show up until they got there.

Starting point is 00:46:42 Double down. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. No, I'm just being honest. They mad cuz they father didn't show up today got there So I know they mad at me like whoa he was there so Right, yeah, I know I get it so I do appreciate him for that. Okay, I get it now Oh, I'm sorry. How do you feel about go bear missing game two for the birth of his first child? I Heard Gil's response, and it's quite entertaining. Typical Gil. That's one way to look at it. I will say this.

Starting point is 00:47:13 I can see both sides of the coin, and it's up to the individual. I totally understand the people that say they understand him taking the game off because if something, God forbid, was to happen to the mother of his child during pregnancy or during the birth of the child, it would be tragic. And it'd be unfortunate, it'd be something that he probably couldn't forgive himself of. So I understand that side of it.

Starting point is 00:47:41 Me myself, having four kids, I think I would have played in the game and taken a private jet to Minnesota and witnessed either the birth or get there right after the birth, understanding that we worked 82 games and my entire life for the opportunity to get to the finals. So it would be something that you understand I was fortunate enough to have you know four kids and be there for all four of them but I do understand the side that you want to be there for your kid okay this is the next I know you got it he already watched the birth the birth was in the morning just let me just add that. So she was fine. Oh, yeah. Yeah, she was good. Yeah, she was good. Remix. Yeah, she was good. Yeah, she was good.

Starting point is 00:48:27 The birth was in the morning. Oh, the birth was in the morning. Okay, he already got that out. I'll ask one question. Yeah. Like, what did I ask? What? What time?

Starting point is 00:48:34 What time was the baby born? Yes. That's all I need to know because it said in the morning, right? Report Monday morning. Monday morning. That could have been 12-01. Right, right. It's a long time when AM hit for her to go into labor. She could have been in labor at 9 o'clock PM the day before, had the baby at 1 AM.

Starting point is 00:48:55 It's just a long time. We don't know yet. I'm trying to find out what time it is. We are doing our due diligence to try to have that information done. I agree 100% with you. I'm a father of six. Right. Enough of five of them, right? I

Starting point is 00:49:08 Have my oldest daughter her birthday is May 3rd. She's born 2003. She just turned 21 May 3rd 2003 I was in I was I was in league. Mm-hmm On a pretty good team. That was playing in May. Right? She was born May 3rd. She was in the hospital for a few days. I can go back and look at the record.

Starting point is 00:49:38 I ain't miss no games, bro. I was there. She was born. I saw it. She was fine. Mom was fine, everybody was good. Everybody good, good? Everybody good, good, good. Game, I'm going from practice to the hospital.

Starting point is 00:49:54 Game, before the game, go see her. Kiss the baby, the today gotta go to work, I'll be back after the game. Cameron, 19 now. Cameron was supposed to be born in June. Today I gotta go to work. I'll be back after the game. Cameron, 19 now. Cameron was supposed to be born in June. Cameron was born March 2nd. Preemie. 2005. My recollection, I ain't miss no game.

Starting point is 00:50:24 In the incubator, camera fitted my hand when he was born here in this hand palm that small tools that hold you think about you see the baby that was my child was I distraught absolutely got a job to do we fighting for a playoff spot. We getting the playoffs. He's still in the hospital. Same story. Going to the hospital, to the game.

Starting point is 00:50:57 She was fine. From what we know, the pregnancy, the birth of his child went without a hitch. From what we know as of this point. Mm-hmm They trying to say because he didn't get there. He tried to because of weather He didn't try hard enough If you wanted to play if that game if the old guys meant something that shit meant something to you You would have got your ass on the first thing next thing smoking Just what it is man, like if it means some of these dudes you react different you you you treat it a different way if it means something to you if winning and winning championship if

Starting point is 00:51:31 competing for one means something to you then you treat it different i knew i wasn't tripping you didn't articulate it if there's bad weather it's okay just if there's bad weather in Denver, Colorado is one city. You got Boulder, you got Colorado Springs. There's a lot of surrounding areas that could have got you there before tip. Mountain time. I will say I agree. And now that you explained it, I would have had a private jet.

Starting point is 00:52:07 My team would have had a private jet waiting for me. Making sure that the baby is fine and the mother of the baby is fine. First and foremost. The wild card is you had a premature kid. There are some people that's not cut from the cloth and have the ability to handle a premature kid and play 48 minutes.

Starting point is 00:52:24 So for those folks, I understand. They're better off staying at the hospital. But I totally agree with y'all now that you told me the baby was born early in the day. As long as mama's fine and the baby's fine, I'm going to the game. Absolutely. Blue, where do you stand on this situation? Man, since we all jumping out the window, I'm with y'all, man. I don't think it's right for him to miss the game, man.

Starting point is 00:52:47 I think if the baby was born early in the day and there was enough time for him to hop on the flight, come play the game, man. I think it's a luxury that we got Nas Reid and everybody just glosses over it. And we look at it like, oh, it's okay, he missed it. But this could be a 1-1 series and you're playing with a dangerous Denver team. I fly to friends. He didn't fly to France. You were 90 minutes away. You was back home at 1230 a.m.

Starting point is 00:53:12 Yeah, for sure. You know what I mean? You went home and slept in your bed. You didn't miss no time. It was just an eight-hour window. I remember we was in Phoenix and I heard my, uh, my firstborn was, uh,

Starting point is 00:53:29 she was, they was in the hospital and I flew all the way back to DC, then hopped on a regular flight to go back to Oakland. So we was in, uh, we was in Phoenix. So Phoenix to DC, got off our flight, got back on a regular flight to go see me and my daughter being born Christmas Eve, spend the day, and then had to play on the 26th. But you had a game in D.C.? No. I would have to go to Phoenix to...

Starting point is 00:53:59 Yeah, I found out while I was on the plane. Okay, okay, I'll make it up. I was like, oh, she's about to go. Ah, got it. God damn it, I'm already on. So it was just playing, come back, spend spin that day Christmas and then we had practice so I had to come back to practice You can't miss practice miss practice. You can miss the game like I mean, I'm hot on fire right now. I can't miss So I came back and played on the 26 so I've been there the other four I already see one. I don't need to see the other one. Well, lucky they won. Thank God they won, man.

Starting point is 00:54:27 Just thank God they won. They won. They 2-0. Thank God. That was the best part. To someone close to the situation, and... Yeah, people upset that the guy didn't play. Like, I know some weren't real close to that. Was upset that the guy didn't play. Like, I know some weren't real close to that. Was upset that the guy didn't play. Like,

Starting point is 00:54:50 that's... Yeah, man. I have my son. My son is... Ten months ago, I had my son. He was born. So, it's a blessing, but I'm looking back at the day he was born and his mom is lucky I didn't have a nightly game at LA Fitness. I might have went to hoop. Like, what are we doing?

Starting point is 00:55:04 What are we talking about not free I gotta go get 30 real quick I'll be back we lose the whole season we've been making it on Tuesday at 7 They count on me too Hey doc just hold it off to 9 Don't say she don't deliver to 9 I can get here by 9 It's just because I've never It's only because I've never We've never seen it

Starting point is 00:55:41 Because usually As much as we are with, you know, our wives and our girlfriends, our teammates is a bond, too. The game is a bond, too. And we hold just as much power to that. Right? Usually our first child kind of like is something different. But we usually make the game. I've never been on a team where a dude didn't make the game.

Starting point is 00:56:03 Me neither. Right? You know, I had teammates that, shit, we done that. dude didn't make the game. I mean, right now, you know I had teammates and shit we done that it was like damn near 11 kids within those two years Not one even thought about missing again Yeah, I was making That was just the ones with our girls. Y'all like the shine pole. Yeah, yeah. Y'all up there

Starting point is 00:56:25 shooting the brand club. Y'all up there shooting the club up. I know y'all watch the show, but now you get to see it in real life. So we're very... Okay, y'all be making sure.

Starting point is 00:56:34 Just to play devil's advocate real quick, let's look at the other side, though. What if Gobera was like, oh, we're just playing the Nuggets. Y'all don't need me for a game, too. Okay.

Starting point is 00:56:42 Okay. Hey, listen, listen. Listen. I'm just glad they won, man. He was playing Jokic. So that's, like, yeah, he was playing Jokic, so I get that point. Yeah. All right, if my child's born, I got to pray.

Starting point is 00:56:54 Hey, y'all. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and take the second game. Family first. Family first. Family first. He was playing AI. When it comes to AI. He's like, AI, yeah, I'm going to go ahead and meet you.

Starting point is 00:57:05 Yeah, I'm going to meet y'all. I'm going to meet y'all in Charlotte. Let's talk a little bit about Ant-Man. After the game, Ant-Man said the Wolves were happy with the result but ready for the Nuggets to fight back in game three. Damn. That's the defending champs over there, so they're not going to come out and play like that again in game three.

Starting point is 00:57:24 We've got to be ready to take their punch. And I always tell the tell the team like uh when finchy when we huddle up and finchy say uh we got to be ready to take their punch i say we're gonna punch too shit i mean they're not the only one punching in the fight so i mean yeah just like that they're not the only one that's gonna come out punching i don't give a damn if we go up three over for the game four we're gonna come out punching too so they got to be ready to take our punch, and we'll be ready to take their punch. But, yeah, I don't see no slippage in their games. They just missed shots tonight. They'll be ready to go game 3, and we will be.

Starting point is 00:57:53 When you just look at Ant, man, it really feels like this Wolves team has taken on his identity. He's at 22 years old, fearless, plays that way on the court. When we look at Ant, what are your thoughts on his leadership on and off the court at just 22 years old? I talk about it all the time. Love everything about him. And what I love about him is he has extreme confidence, swag on 1,000, but at the same time shows humility.

Starting point is 00:58:18 Talks about Joker being the best player in the world. Talks about Jamal Murray being the best closer in the world. He doesn't believe that, but at least he extends it and shows humility by presenting it. I love his toughness. I love his old-school mentality where he's not trying to be somebody's boy out there, not trying to make friends. We could be boys afterwards, but in between these lines, I'm going after you.

Starting point is 00:58:41 The respect he showed Kevin Durant, but still went after him. It's refreshing to see especially these days Yeah, I mean very respectful of Kevin Durant, but also very disrespectful Yeah of Kevin Durant to when we think about the chops and that's crazy But he's out of line when it comes to an what you what you mean, you know, no, I'm right in line We have discussion all the time. I'm saying man man, I'm going to jump out the window again. Airman, at 22 years old, is on pace to become

Starting point is 00:59:09 Michael Jordan. Why is it so quiet in here? He's 22. The numbers that he's putting up, his aggression and the way that he carries himself, if we watch the Timberwolves go on to win a championship this year, what more does he have to do to be on pace?

Starting point is 00:59:27 So let me just stop you there. There's only one of us on this couch that played against that man when he was that man, and I'm going to go whatever the hell he say. All right. And if that man say no, that man say no. Because shit, listen. Listen you talking about Jordan 80th when you're on the go On the pace so you got a story to your Jordan So so that's what we see what happened is everyone usually throws Jordan out but don't put no time stamps on it You got to put some time steps on it. He's saying Jordan at 22 and Ant-Man at 22. He's on the trajectory

Starting point is 01:00:07 I mean there's gonna be there's gonna be around 26 where Jordan just takes a leap that nobody 37 leap that's that's a whole different leap but at the age of 22 Jordan and Ant-Man He said they're simple. They're in they're similar if you make that case I can give you 10 do so Lucas Lucas on page Yes, he does, but that was on page can give you 10 dudes. So Luke is on page. Roper's on page. Tatum's on page. No, no, no. After about 20... Jordan 30 is a whole different Jordan.

Starting point is 01:00:35 That 30-year Jordan and moving forward, Jordan 88, it's a whole different person. So there's dates where Jordan Takes leaps that I don't think Anyone in today's game is gonna leap like that So when you say are these guys are compared to Jordan at the 22 age or 23 age?

Starting point is 01:00:58 Okay, I can see that Jordan at 25 26. Yeah, that's not Way whoa Jordan at 25, 26. Ah. That's not. Ah. That's not getting rid of you. Ah. That's not. Hold on. Hold on. You got to wait. Whoa. Okay. Relax.

Starting point is 01:01:09 Get a little rough. Easy. Easy. That man over here with the chain on, that's a whole different dude. Hold on. Hold on. When Jordan put the, when he got rid of the wings. Uh-huh.

Starting point is 01:01:18 Right? When he got rid of those wings and put the logo on, that's another Jordan. The wings? Yeah. When he got rid of those wings in 87, 88. Gold chain, Mike. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Leave him alone.

Starting point is 01:01:28 Yeah, that's why I said you got to let us know which Jordan we're talking about. Right? That gold chain and the loop and loop. The 90s Jordan. Yeah, we ain't even. 22-year-old Ant-Man, 22-year-old Jordan. He's won one playoff series. Let's let him live a little.

Starting point is 01:01:44 Okay. That's fair. I love what he's a little. Okay. That's fair. I love everything about him. I like what he's doing. I like the way he's presenting, to your point, Mark. Yeah. Yeah. He got Jordan tennis.

Starting point is 01:01:54 I hit him with the shrug. He's in a good flow right now. The thing is, man, about him. He's in a good flow. He competes. Yes, man. Every possession, and it means something. So once you have that mentality and you have success

Starting point is 01:02:07 doing it that way, you get an appetite for it. Right? So now he had an appetite of winning the first round. He like, I like that feeling in my gut. Now you're going to, in a tough environment against them, against them good, you like, hey, shit. Hey, now, what kind of sauce is this?

Starting point is 01:02:29 What kind of sauce y'all put on these nuggets? Hey, you got some more of that in the back? Right? I prefer barbecue or hot mustard. Just the confidence, man, that you see in him and the way he's approaching it. When there needs to be when the team's making run and we got to make a play,

Starting point is 01:02:49 or he just, he's showing up. And that's what, great to do, man. And I ain't called him that yet, but he is. He's playing very well. He's playing very well right now to put his team in a good position. In a young NBA where I think it's wide open. So, for y'all watching this Nugget Squad defending champs, how surprising is

Starting point is 01:03:07 it to see them, especially Jokic and Jamal Murray, getting clamped up like this in home games they need to win? Not surprising at all? Did you expect this coming in? They're coaching. Listen, we sit on this couch time and time and time and time again, and I've preached time and time and time again, guys

Starting point is 01:03:23 playing freely. Guys don't do this defensively. Guys don't game plan. Guys don't do... I've been saying this and time and time again guys playing freely guys don't do this defensively guys don't game playing guys don't do I've been saying this shit time and time again Minnesota do the total opposite of everything I've been saying they coaching they are actually coaching them boys believe in what they saying and they going out and implement the game plan man to a tee. And it worked. So now guess what? It worked once, we got game one.

Starting point is 01:03:52 It worked again, we got game two. We're just going to turn the volume up in game three because they're expecting them to come out and play a certain way in game three, to Anthony Edwards' words, right? They're going to be ready. And that bill didn't go say we ready. You didn't been there, man. I came to the game when y'all was in the playoffs when I was in Cincinnati, when you was in there.

Starting point is 01:04:12 I was playing the Knicks, dog. It was the loudest place I've ever heard before in my life. I'm expecting that kind of environment in Minnesota when them boys going there, man. Yeah, it's not surprising to me. Before the series, I picked Minnesota to beat Denver just because Styles makes fights, and they had been an outstanding defensive team. They're playing with great rhythm, and it's taken this game to a totally different level, and you could tell. You don't stumble on to defend in a way that they defended

Starting point is 01:04:38 these last two games. Game plan, discipline, understanding how and when nuggets could hurt you, and being tied together. That's a tied together basketball team that's clicking on all cylinders right now. Yeah, they're exposing their weakness. Their weakness was that sub. When they sub out one, like at the end of the quarter, and they're subbing out like Jokic first,

Starting point is 01:05:00 and let Murray hold it down. And they're like, nah, we just going gonna beat him up. We just gonna jump him Pressure full court by making uncomfortable form make him pass it to people that he only one pass it to I'm getting mad at you. Look at you. I remember you had 25 in the first quarter my last year Okay, I can't get that up. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Starting point is 01:05:34 no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Was it Dale Davis? Yes. It was Dale Davis and Troy Murphy going back and forth and everybody was like talking shit, scoring on us. I was on the bench so it didn't even matter. But it was Dale Davis punking Troy and Troy had to get buffed the next year.

Starting point is 01:05:56 Then he came back, he's the horsey. It was like a fun rivalry. He scored, I was wondering. Yeah, when I came in. He scored and he go, hee haw. I'm like, hee haw. What is that? What is that? That's not trash, Troy. He's cool. I was wondering yeah, but I can't he go he

Starting point is 01:06:16 Does that's it cuz choice started like riding these horses ride these horses That was it see now what's down though we was getting get back. That was his team. That was his team. No, no. We was getting get back from that first year, dog. They embarrassed us. It was like we was in the weight room. He was limp like, I'm going to get back. So when we got back, we're going to treat like some horsies. We're going to ride them.

Starting point is 01:06:37 How do you remember that? Of course. Hey, hog. Learn something new in the arena every day. He said, I'm looking at you like, I remember. I'm glad I'm not the last. He hard. He hard out there. So let's talk a little bit about Jamal Murray.

Starting point is 01:06:54 During the game, Murray was visibly frustrated with the officiating and his poor play. So during the game, if you were watching live, you saw that he packed into your screen, just get thrown on the court. Didn't know where it came from, but camera spotted Murray. You'll see him on the left tossing it. Tossing it on the court. He also was spotted throwing a towel that landed near a ref. And after the game, Murray refused to speak to reporters for the second straight game.

Starting point is 01:07:27 In the same clip, the hot pack was wrapped in the towel. So he threw the hot pack in the towel. That make it okay? No, they're trying to make it look like it was too simple. I mean, it might have whop whop, but you know, the hot towel ain't gonna go nowhere if it ain't wrapped in the hot pack.

Starting point is 01:07:44 Y'all know. Yeah, he wrapped the hot pack, the towel ain't gonna go nowhere if it ain't wrapped in the hot pack. Y'all know, he... Hot pack flew out, okay. Yeah, he wrapped the hot pack in the towel instead of the stinky thing that they used for everybody. They just wrapped it in the towel, he took that bitch off. Like really? Either way, light-skinned Canadians are down bad right now. He just look like he frustrated right now. He look like he frustrated.

Starting point is 01:08:01 He could lose for it. I mean, where he threw that, where he threw it it like his own teammate could have slipped on it Yeah, no, he could have slipped on it two of his teammates before what it was like Him cat or someone else they could also might have hurt themselves man I mean, I know we don't do we all like ifs but but yeah, I mean truth of the matter It's like we've been sitting there. It hurts your own Definitely helping all bad. What 25 50,000? Yeah yeah we'll punish mr murray expect for throwing a heat pack and they don't hit him i don't know what it's going to be but he should one game

Starting point is 01:08:32 i don't know you know these yeah you well i know now yeah you be you at that next level of knowing information so that's all you what what you think is gonna happen as a former player coach and analyst i would i'm not pulling for anybody to lose money but that's that's all you, what you think is going to happen? As a former player, coach, and analyst, I'm not pulling for anybody to lose money, but that's at least a game suspension. Yeah, I agree. I mean, that's something we haven't seen. Yeah. I can't recall.

Starting point is 01:08:54 Throw something on the court, he's out of line, and he lost, you know, got frustrated, understandably so. That statement has to be made that that cannot be tolerated especially when this active guy like they actively like this this is an active play it's the middle of a play i don't think i've ever seen that before i know you and i'll let this be on the record like he's a good dude right he's he's a great dude just he's his emotions got the best of them that it happens Straight force then what can score can't score man, right?

Starting point is 01:09:37 This ain't no bad see this ain't no bad care to do this a good dude and Just the frustrations of the playoffs and not going your way and he reacted so i can't he who he is as a person doesn't change because he did this right it just playoffs motherfucker he got it got you okay i can't see mark davis doing if this goes any longer than four i can't see mark davis doing another denver game no times so you talked about the frustration of not being able to score. So the Nuggets playoff meeting with the Wolves last season, Murray averaged 27 points, shot 47% from the field, 43% from three.

Starting point is 01:10:12 In the first two games this year, he's averaging 12.5 points, shooting 28% from the field, 25% from three. I'm just saying. He can't get off that leg. It's that pop. He ain't got that pop right now. That and the way they came out. The way they came out.

Starting point is 01:10:24 They swiping, swinging, running. You looking at a divas like man. How many of them is out there? Shots Really cover like even they're trying to bait. They're even trying to bait fouls and the refs is like nah I just number one team on defense like we're not just gonna keep blowing Nah, they earned they earned what they're doing. Nah. They earned what they're doing, so we just going. And they're so used to it, though. They're so used to them

Starting point is 01:10:48 dudes blowing the whistle for nothing. Yep. For minimal contact. Now it's what they call now marginal. Marginal contact. It's marginal contact.

Starting point is 01:10:55 It's always marginal that y'all decide to blow the whistle on during the regular season. Y'all just decide not to blow the whistle now, and that's what they've been expecting.

Starting point is 01:11:05 Each round, it gets harder. Right, Mark? It's a different level. It gets harder every round, man. Like, they swatted that whistle. The deeper in the playoffs you get, the less and less that whistle blows. So you got to be able to execute.

Starting point is 01:11:19 You got to be able to play through plays. That's why all that flopping and all that, it don't do you no justice, man. Yeah, I was first round whistle. And I was all right. I was all right. I was first round. I went to the second round,

Starting point is 01:11:33 but the way Miami was playing, they were playing second round basketball. They were second round. We was in regular season against Miami. It was Shaq, Lonzo. Shaq didn't show up

Starting point is 01:11:43 for two games. Like, I don't even need to show up. They ain't got nobody for us, man. I was there here in Miami, man. I didn't even go on down to D.C. See how we all get back in front of the day. For real. We gonna sweep them. We ain't even worry about them. Damn. That's crazy. That's how many we did us. Huh? I said Bucks and Six. That's how they did us. For real? Yeah. That's how many we did us huh that bucks to six. I said he did us Let's move it over to the Easter conference Nixon Pacers playoff rivalry goes back more than 30 years mark You were part of it on the Pacers side, but you from New York

Starting point is 01:12:14 So I know that was probably difficult for you to have to give the Knicks that work Oh, it was a lot of fun because I played with those guys So I came from New York ultimately found my way back competing against them in the playoffs. So it's nothing like going back home, talking to them. Pat Riley was the coach early on, and he had a rule. You can't talk to the opposing team. I was in that seat. So now all of a sudden, I'm clowning.

Starting point is 01:12:38 I know they can't say anything back to me. It was a great time and great memories. And to see it all these years later, those guys battling again, it's awesome. Other than seeing John Starks act a fool on the baseline. Like, he's new to this. Sit down and enjoy the game. So Knicks and Pacers had six meetings from 92 to 2000. But it's the first time they've met since 2013.

Starting point is 01:13:02 And in game one, the Nova Knicks put the team on their back. As Jalen Brunson Gave the guard another show to give the Knicks a 1-0 lead in the series So Brunson came through with another big game dropping 43 points including 21 in the fourth quarter So along with six rebounds six assists He was 14 for 26 from the field and 14 for 14 from the free throw line including knocking down the game ceiling free throws late in the fourth quarter. Brunson's fourth straight 40-point game which ties him with MJ and Bernard

Starting point is 01:13:28 King for second most in playoff history. Dante DiVincenzo had 25 points with 21 in the second half. He was 5 for 9 for 3. And Josh Hart added a playoff career high of 24 points along with 13 rebounds and 8 assists. So Miles Turner led the Pacers with 23 points. Siakam had 19

Starting point is 01:13:43 and 6 rebounds. And TJ McConnell had 18 points off the bench at 23 minutes. This boy is screaming. Oh, the OB topic came through with the east bank. But Tyrese Halliburton struggled in his first playoff game in the garden, finishing with 6 points, 8 assists, and 4 steals. Hallie only took 6 shots in the game. Few questionable calls, too, with under a minute remaining. The Pacers got called for an erroneous kickball that they couldn't challenge.

Starting point is 01:14:07 Why they couldn't challenge it? Apparently you can only challenge fouls and go to any kickball. Can I challenge a kickball? The game was tied at that point Dante DiVincenzo hit a three to put the Knicks up three and then with 12 seconds and a chance to take the lead Miles Turner was whistled for an illegal screen. Pacers challenged a foul, but the call was upheld. Is it because he opened up, like, right here?

Starting point is 01:14:33 Yep. Yeah, it's because he flopped. He sold it. Okay. So you see John Starks in the crowd turning up. So Knicks went on to get the win. Let's talk a little bit about Jalen Brunson. He's been doing his thing. In his last four playoff games, Brunch's averaging 43 points, nine assists, four rebounds. Mark, as a former New York Nix point guard, what are your thoughts

Starting point is 01:14:55 on Jalen Brunson's dominance this postseason? Played with his dad, Rick. Watched Jalen as a kid run around, you know the garden Proud of him extremely proud he is playing incredible basketball He's got the ultimate green light playing with confidence a matchup nightmare You put a bigger guy on him. He uses that incredible footwork to get to his spots You put a smaller guy on him. He wins the battle on his terms. He is playing in a rhythm right now that we haven't seen in quite a while. And I'm proud of him. Not only the way he's playing, but the way he conducts himself. Another guy that shows humility and shows how appreciative he is to play in Madison Square Garden with the lights being the brightest. He's been incredible.

Starting point is 01:15:41 What do you think about Brunson, Dominus? Nah, he's cooking, man. He's cooking. I'm interested to you think about Brunson, Dominus? Nah, he's cooking, man. He's cooking. I'm interested to see because this is a big run for him. We're going to look and say, is he better than, he already caught Jeremy Lin, but we're going to look and see, is he better than Strawberry, is he better than a lot of these New York City legends,

Starting point is 01:16:00 and he's climbing the charts game by game. These numbers that he's putting up is ridiculous. Yeah. I mean, I got to give it to him and Ant. They've both been, like, outstanding in the playoffs. Like, just the way, like you said, they conduct themselves and the confidence and just, like, the next level that they've taken so far. So, I mean, yeah, they've both been great, both of them. Has he been the most dominant player in the playoffs?

Starting point is 01:16:21 Probably. On the scoring side of it. Probably. Yeah, so far, besides probably with Embiid that first round. On the scoring side of it. Probably. Yeah, so far, besides probably what Embiid that first round. Yeah, he's been consistent. Right, but he's consistently

Starting point is 01:16:30 down there, right? Yeah. Like, he's having a crazy run. But I mean, even when we were talking about it, it was like, oh no, him and Luka. Those first two games,

Starting point is 01:16:38 first two games, Luka was playing bad average in 29. Yeah, the first two games against Philly, he didn't shoot the ball well. Right. So like 25, so probably, between him and Luka was playing bad average in 29 first two games against Philly. He didn't shoot the ball. Well, right So like 25 probably hit between him and Lucas probably most dominant right now scoring wise Lucas probably been more efficient because though

Starting point is 01:16:53 two games is on the resume of Brunson early on but He he's been he's made every play that maddened, you know in the Philly series and yeah, so we now last night coaching, right? and game plan and in in the Phillies series and now last night. So we didn't talk about coaching, right? And game planning and... They play... Somebody put two on him and get the ball out of his hand and consistently do it. Dude, they continuously switch the pitch world,

Starting point is 01:17:23 letting this boy play one-on-one out here, man. Like, this shit is mind-on-one out here, man. This shit is mind-blowing to me. You consistently switching this shit and putting whoever on him. I don't know if you noticed or not, can't nobody guard him one-on-one. Yeah. I don't think they figured that out yet. I don't think y'all figured this shit out yet. That's right.

Starting point is 01:17:45 Yeah. You can't guard him one-on-one. Mm-hmm. The shit last year in the playoffs wasn't a fluke. Yeah. Dude, let's... You know what helps him, though? What actually helps him is when you do double and you do get it out of his hands,

Starting point is 01:18:05 the other players actually make shots. So you know that kind of like as a defender I'm doubling high and then my dude hit a three like oh hell no okay like the divin chenzos the game or 25 and stuff like that I'm guarding him that like come on dog you making me look bad over here different I get to's still different than Brunson's 40. To you? Not the dude who's guarding him? I get what you're saying, but you're thinking from a player's standpoint. If I put in the instructions that we're going to live with Josh Hart making threes, and I'm betting that he doesn't beat us four games in the seven-game series, I know that this dude, who's gotten 40 in six or seven straight games,

Starting point is 01:18:43 I know he's capable. So the game plan is you can't take a personal when Josh Hart makes threes. You got to understand That's that's that's least that that's our game plan So I'm gonna live with it and understand I'm not throwing you under the bus say Josh. I gave Gil 40 No, that was the game plan Jalen Brunson had 18 and six and we walked out there with a win so I get what you saying I know I know what the coach says I'm as the players he gonna be like yeah I give you a 40 you know that's when that selfishness selfish ticket was someone who doesn't supposed to be hitting shots like that be hitting shots

Starting point is 01:19:27 And you know he starts to talking and you'd like dog Because all it takes I mean, you know, no no get the ball get the ball He started playing one over and even like now I ain't helping off nothing Then he's then he scores now you got to go back over there Then he hits a shot or you already in a matrix See you to see you a different not be but you know They're trash talking in me though. See that's the difference right mark You get to scoring and you say I'm busting your ass, dude. You do realize we'll let you shoot But I will tell you that right on the wire squad in there on the free throw line in front of everybody

Starting point is 01:20:00 Do you do realize we let you shoot right? And now yeah I'm gonna let you know Like dude the game play listen, you don't know I'll bring it out So you see right here where it said don't go Right here like you'll be like Yeah, you think about he's getting 40 on the court But no Julius Randle, so DiVincenzo hard

Starting point is 01:20:30 Hartenstein, you know, he's playing with guys that will be and I know guys You got to be able to get the ball out of his hands and force other guys to beat you Yes, I think I think after watching I think once everybody watched what? Minnesota was doing to Denver and Murray when yoga is off the court I'm expecting like if you if you're a coach and you just watch this like yo hey so when you'll get one off they just doubling and they don't got nobody to pass it to oh we might we'll just do that the Brunson let Let's see what happens.

Starting point is 01:21:07 So I'm pretty sure they might try it. That just sounds easy. It is, goddamn it. It sounds easy, but we'll see. Man, McBride is aggressive as they come. Well, guess what we're going to be back there, motherfucker, doing? My hand going to be this way. I know. Don't care.

Starting point is 01:21:20 Don't care. Give you 40 now. He give us 40 and we listen. Right. Jalen Brunson moving my. Don't get him. Get you 40 now. He give us 40 and we listen. Jalen Brunson move in my hand, he'll be like this. Where you going? It's habits, bro. It's habits, bro. Hey, I locker room this way.

Starting point is 01:21:32 Oh, my bad. My bad. Be following you to the locker room. Nigga, where you going? Where you going, nigga? Where you going? Not the locker room. Hey, motherfucker, Kosey.

Starting point is 01:21:40 Kosey, I got to guard you. Hey, listen, dog. I'm not going to leave you. You're going to be out there, no ditty. Nah, it's ditty today. We taking this shower together, motherfucker. We taking this shower together, motherfucker. I got a guard Yo, why this boy said that the book wait no me Like yo, hey man this ain't no free looks. It's habits, though, because we watch this Pacer team

Starting point is 01:22:07 not compete defensively like we watched them these last two or three games. They found something in the Bucks when they picked up full court in that closeout game, and they carried it into this series.

Starting point is 01:22:17 But to ask them to make these type of defensive stance is not really their character. That's not what they do. That's not what they do. And they was playing against a hurt game, so you pressuring guards that are hurt.

Starting point is 01:22:28 Like, do it against Brunson. Brunson is healthy. Don't want to dribble that bitch. Chris Middleton was like, hey, somebody come get this mother... Please come get this ball. Y'all not asking the hard questions, though, because this man picked the Pacers against the Knicks.

Starting point is 01:22:42 Yeah, we were going to get to that. What he got to say about that? I mean, it could go either way. It could go either way. We on the West Coast. There's a whole city that's looking at him like, how dare you pick them against the Knicks? Explain yourself.

Starting point is 01:22:59 But you in LA now. He played for both. I don't pick the team because I played for them. I pick them because I analyze and think the strengths and weaknesses and who's better and who's rolling, who's healthy, who's deeper, who's more versatile. And then my decision is the Pacers. I don't really care who wins.

Starting point is 01:23:15 And this series is far from over. Yeah. Are you sticking with the Pacers? You want me to jump ship now? I'm too late. That's the great thing about podcasting. You can just make a new take, flip that off. Nah, I was saying

Starting point is 01:23:30 this the whole time. I was lying. Edit that out. Let's talk about Obi Top and East Bend, that thing in the middle of a playoff game. What did he? On the break with somebody. Listen, this is my second time seeing somebody chasing him down in East Bend. He did it in the regular season as well. He did that in the playoff game. No, he did it in the play second time seeing somebody chasing him down in East Bend. He did it in the regular season as well.

Starting point is 01:23:45 He did it in the playoffs. Somebody chasing him down. It ain't like somebody got stolen and he's just like, oh, let me watch and see what he's fit to do. They running behind him. The game was like, there was a war. He got that type of athleticism. He can do it, man. I did too.

Starting point is 01:24:00 I told him I'd meet with him because he missed one in the regular season. I told him I'd meet with him. If you want to do that, that's fine. You better make it. Mm-hmm in a playoff game. You miss that. Oh, yes. You sitting next to me He never he never experienced The shake though, that shit was killer He got the shit. He's like, y'all don't do that. Just dance up the sideline. Come down. He had to shake, though. That shit was killer. Didn't you give us 50? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:24:30 Yeah, I remember. I wasn't playing. I was coaching. I tried to get the ball out of his hands, tried to trap him, do everything. He was on fire. For the 55 piece or no? Oh, no, that's the 50 with the nugget.

Starting point is 01:24:41 Against the Warriors. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he was... he was shaking on them. Shaking on them. He's using his moves against them. Amar, what do you think about this Tyrese Halliburton?

Starting point is 01:24:56 He looked, in the period we've talked about this, the hamstrings kind of look like it's been an issue that's been lingering. But only took six shots in game one. Numbers are down from the regular season. Yeah, I'm a guy, if you're out there in uniform, I'm not giving you no excuse saying you wasn't 100%. He was out of character. He was rushing down the stretch of ballgame. He rattled them a little bit.

Starting point is 01:25:16 Own it and move forward. And he's a guy that I'm sure will respond and bounce back and make the proper adjustments. One thing I would have done if I was Rick Carlisle is get T.J. McConnell in the game, a guy that can slow things down, take the pressure off of Halliburton to handle the basketball, initiate offense,

Starting point is 01:25:32 and he had been playing great. So I expect to see the adjustment. Halliburton's too good. The same way if Brunson had a bad game, I'd say he's going to bounce back. I expect to see him play much better. It's that garden crowd, too, though. That garden crowd is insane right now.

Starting point is 01:25:45 Yes, they're positive, man. You know, like in a playoff atmosphere, it can get to you. Like, you've been there, man. They can, you know. That was always my little thing. People are like, you hate New York. No, I hate New York fans. The fans are crazy.

Starting point is 01:25:59 Because they don't know how to be fanned, right? Like, they don't know how to be fanned. It's like, it's like, you gotta credit them because they love the hell out of whatever they're... But when they're not happy, they show it. Yeah. You can't

Starting point is 01:26:15 be unhappy the first three minutes of the game because we ain't scored yet. God damn it, give me some time. Right, right, right. You know, we gotta put a little WD-40 on ourselves. You already done booed us out the building. Like, I'm good now. Shit.

Starting point is 01:26:30 Shit, I was getting ready to start up, but shit, coach subbed me out. And that becomes the feeling. I'm like, y'all do y'all team so much disjustice when you already put the boo wagon on. If y'all just focused on hating the other team, this is what it sounds like. You put so much fire into the apartment. They sitting there booing you. I've been there.

Starting point is 01:26:54 Yeah, brother, sorry about this. Have you ever lived in New York? Huh? Have you ever lived in New York? No. Oh, well, I'm not saying that they're gardening. There's nothing. They live in New York City.

Starting point is 01:27:04 What do y'all put it together? What's the word they use? Disjustice. Disjustice. sometimes you make a word. In gardening, there's nothing. It's like living in your house. What do you put it together? What do you want to use? Disjustice. Disjustice. It's not a word. Justice, disjustice, injustice? That's close. It took me about one second.

Starting point is 01:27:15 The first couple letters to like, I ain't gonna lie. My teacher said I did do that a lot. That should be a word. Disjustice means this. We don't justice mean this. We don't do this. Yo, he's a lot. That should be a word. This justice means this. We don't do this. We don't do this. Because we hang out with you every day. We get you. Justice, injustice, this justice, misjustice. It should work like that. The last two, yeah. We get you. The last two you went with, absolutely. But that first one. two, two, and two, they doing it. I should be able to do this shit, too.

Starting point is 01:27:48 I'm going to tell the truth. I was thinking of waiting to leave and step my game up because I didn't have that in my game. So fortunately, it's not supposed to be in my game. You can work with this, Jay. It just took me a second. I went with Gil a long time. I'm like, OK, well, I got it.

Starting point is 01:28:01 That's my first time using that, right? Yeah, that was before. That was the first time. He has a Gilbert dictionary. Trust me. No, no, no, my teacher said that. I got some shit. That was my first time using that, right? Yeah, that was before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the first time. He has a Gilbert Dictionary. Trust me. Now, my teacher said I did that a lot. Names, words. And stood on it, too. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:28:13 Stood on it. So, let's hit Jalen Brunson just a little bit more. Strong point, too. Been a lot of... His strong point with it, too. Hey, hey. Hey. Confidence.

Starting point is 01:28:22 Hey. We was right. But it flows. That's what I'm saying. But his face. Hey, hey. we was right there with each other. But it flows, that's what I'm saying. But his face, his face. They got Harvard education, they got Arizona education, all right? All right, y'all got the real words, we got the ones we make the fuck up. But Joe's face, and I just saw him, I was like-

Starting point is 01:28:36 I was just like- You went to UCLA. I went to Cincinnati, they don't do, trust me. I was hitting my Merriam-Webster, just going, okay. He was like, trust me. I was hitting my Merriam-Webster. Just going, okay. Nah, that wasn't on the SAT or the ACT. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. But I knew what you were saying.

Starting point is 01:28:53 I'm in school education right there. Let's get back to Brunson a little bit. There's been a lot of talk about Brunson. I don't want to say recency bias, but in terms of the greatest Knicks of all time debate, people throwing his name in there. You have Patrick Ewing. Already?

Starting point is 01:29:05 I'm just saying. You have Patrick Ewing. I'm just saying. You have Patrick Ewing on your most recent episode. Stop! Shit! You have Patrick Ewing on your most recent episode. Let's take a look at what you told him about his standing in Knicks history. Oak made a statement that Jalen Brunson is the greatest New York

Starting point is 01:29:21 Knicks basketball player since Clyde Frazier. Time out. Are you kidding me? Again, I love you, but what are we doing? Let me introduce you again to the greatest, not just since Clyde Frazier, the greatest New York Knicks basketball player of all time. That includes everybody.

Starting point is 01:29:41 You put everybody that ever played in the blue and orange, and you put them on the draft board, the number one pick is Patrick Ewan. So that's nothing against Jalen Brunson and what he's been able to accomplish in the incredible year that he's put together and what he's going to do moving forward. But it is beyond question, no question, that this guy is the best to ever do it in blue and orange. Jalen is a great player, and I'm happy for his success. I'm happy for the success of the New York Knicks. I'm happy for the success that Tom is having with that team. But I try not to get involved in all that. Yeah, I don't want you to get involved. Who's better?

Starting point is 01:30:21 Who's this? Is it myself? Is it Clyde? Is it Willis? It's you. It's you. And I watch those guys. And they're great.

Starting point is 01:30:29 And I loved them growing up. And they were heroes of mine. But it's you. No, but I appreciate that. Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate that. So we got three former Knicks on this couch. We do, right?

Starting point is 01:30:41 Why is Patrick Ewing the greatest Knick ever? Oh, yeah, I know. I'm not looking at you, fool. I know you didn't play there. I'm about to say, I was five, so. Five, so. If you're asking me, I watched the great New York Knick teams with people that they say are the greatest,

Starting point is 01:30:59 and Willis Reed and Walt Frazier. I grew up on those guys, and I got nothing but love and respect for them. But Patrick Ewing, you can't tell me no team where the guy, one person, is the leading scorer, rebounder, scorer by over

Starting point is 01:31:13 10,000 points. Anybody's ever played. Rebounder by over 5,000 points. Blocked shots, minutes played, steals, playoff games, playoff points. I mean, you go on and on and on. And then, so it really isn't a debate. Steals too?

Starting point is 01:31:30 Every single category this dude has dominated and it is not close. Only thing he doesn't have is a championship. So you're going to tell me if the Indiana Pacers win a championship, Tyrese Halliburton is a better Pacer than Reggie Miller? No, it's criminal to say that. It's a body of work. So it makes no sense. And an argument is not even an argument, it's criminal to say that. It's a body of work, so it makes no sense. And an argument is not even an argument.

Starting point is 01:31:47 It's a dis-argument. You like that, right? Yeah. And I roll with it. I'm rolling. That's a word. It sounds good. I know.

Starting point is 01:31:56 They're going to put that in a dictionary. Should they put everything else? They might give a dictionary. They put everything else in a dictionary, so they might as well go ahead. No, but it really makes no sense. Pat Ewing is clearly the greatest New York Knick basketball player of all time. Willis Reed was a 6'9 center.

Starting point is 01:32:11 He was great and a captain, and he won championships. Pat Ewing is the best to ever do it. Yeah, that's not even fucking. How did Jalen Brunson even get into this conversation? Because they're excited right now. They're excited right now. He's having a great year, right? I asked you a question a minute ago when he's first, when y'all first started.

Starting point is 01:32:32 Maybe I'm, maybe my basketball knowledge is not what it seems. Did Melo lead the league in scoring when he was with the Knicks? Yeah, we forgot about that. I was going to say Melo. I was first. But I was on the team. It was just fucking facetious square. You knew that. I was on the team. It was just fucking facetious. I was on the team with the boy.

Starting point is 01:32:51 A hell of a run. James Brown having a hell of a year. Yes. Taking nothing from him. And going to continue the way this league is. But all time talk. Already? Listen, man. Let's turn the microwaves off. Please.

Starting point is 01:33:10 Please let's turn this, put it on slow rolls. Let's let him continue doing what he's doing this year and see how this plays out. They won game one. They can get 4-1 right now the other way and y'all will be talking shit about him. Oh, he's the worst nigga of all time, he can get us out past Indiana. Let's let him enjoy it man. You know Carmelo is a first ballot Hall of Famer and I got a call yesterday in the middle of the day, Rick Brunson, Jalen's dad, and he said Pat Ewan was my hero growing up. Not only that, he said Pat Ewan is the greatest New York Knick basketball player ever.

Starting point is 01:33:46 That's Jalen Brunson's father. That's his dad. And then he got carried away. He said, matter of fact, he's not the best Knick guard in the house. He's better than you, don't you? Easy, father. I'm going with Mello for the Knicks.

Starting point is 01:34:00 No, but it's, dude, the shit is crazy. I mean, this is a second even be yes Even faith to even be a discussion but right but that the unplugged the microwave they happy doll you that's Working dog with you Over there man, happy as hell over there, man. You got to let them live over there. Nah, they ain't twerking. Nah, they ain't twerking.

Starting point is 01:34:26 Nah, they ain't. Chicken noodle soup. Nah, that's what it says. Chicken noodle soup. That was back in. With a soda on the side. They over there twerking, dog. They doing all that shit right there right now.

Starting point is 01:34:35 Twerking in Tim. They twerking in Tim's over there. They happy. All that. They doing all that right now. They so happy, Nike put a billboard up. No, they put a billboard up. For Jalen a billboard up for Jalen Brunson. Yeah, they happy right now New York listen But this is the New York that should have been all

Starting point is 01:34:53 At the soon as the soon as Randall went down, right? Cuz you know, they don't like Randall for some reason soon as he went down They should have been cheering Brunson Brunson Brunson, and then they should have been on the Brunson train Well, he making them. Yeah, but dude with the team that he has this now. That's the crazy old time talk man It's New York man, you gotta let them live they got this like they own country over there Let me stop, man. Because I don't want to do this. Let me shut the fuck up.

Starting point is 01:35:33 You played there, but look. I did. That's what I said. Think about it. This is a group. I'm thinking about some of the Knicks I played against while I was like, been before me. I had to go Allen Houston, mm-hmm

Starting point is 01:35:49 Shit like Run now, they can't make listen No, let me that's why I'm Jeremy Lane was considered top five Nick ever about the soil And he played 12 games, right? 15 games. You know what I mean? You got to let him live just a little bit. That was like the number one

Starting point is 01:36:09 selling jersey. Two weeks. Listen, they was booing Trey Young, and Trey Young wasn't even playing them. Right? So they didn't even...

Starting point is 01:36:18 For several years, they switched to Embiid for like three days, but now I think it's back to Trey. Back to Trey. They booing Trey Young, and he ain't't even in playoffs right now. So let's just But I just turned the microwave off man, let's enjoy with Jaylen Bronson, we just happy they happy at this point. Yeah

Starting point is 01:36:37 Absolutely, I'm already on this you were in a showtime doc, New York City point guards You know, New York City's known for their point guards I would make the argument that LA has some pretty good point guards. New York City is known for their point guards. I would make the argument that L.A. has some pretty good point guards, combo guards as well. Combo. You told the combo. You know I got a combo. We can shoot all year long.

Starting point is 01:36:52 We can shoot all year long. But who's the greatest point guard to come out of NYC? That's a tough question. It's so many greats. You go back and you talk about Bob Cousy. You talk about Lenny Wilkins. You talk about the only guy that ever led the league in scoring and assisting a single season, Tiny Archibald. Then you bring it fast forward to guys like Pearl Washington and Kenny Smith, Kenny Hutchinson, Rod Strickland.

Starting point is 01:37:17 I mean, the list goes on and on and on. Stephon Marbury. I think it's Kenny Anderson, whose jersey is hanging up, high school jersey is hanging up in the Hall of Fame next to a guy by the name of Luau Sender, who we know as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar now. So there's so many greats. I think it's unfair.

Starting point is 01:37:35 I just think that we're proud to say we are the home of the point guards, not the combo guards. I'll give you that. I'll give you that. I'll give you that. How do you feel about that? Y'all got big guards out here. Yeah, I mean, you know, because back then was more like the traditional when the game was.

Starting point is 01:37:54 Here it's more, we became more scoring style. Who is the last, who is the last all-star guard cuz you know like Kimbo because they'd be transferred okay all right so Kimba bad man I got cuz it because they be that you know they they leave and go to press who's I don't know who's a New York guard anymore that's the difference they leave and go out of it out of the city to another state play prep somewhere else all of a sudden they from that place as opposed to New York City. We've had our share of great ones come along

Starting point is 01:38:28 in history. Let's keep this thing moving. You coached the Warriors for three seasons to help lay the foundation for that dynasty. What are your thoughts on the current state of the Warriors, and does that dynasty have any more life left in them?

Starting point is 01:38:44 It's decision time. They've had an incredible run. And, you know, with Klay Thompson being a free agent, if it's me, I still think he has plenty left in the tank. If I'm the Warriors, another team that has money, I'm going after them. Still shoot the lights out of the basketball. I thought it was, you know, an adjustment period for him coming off the bench. And let's be honest if

Starting point is 01:39:07 as good as a Virginia's is Rookie if you're clay Thompson, I'm not looking like he should be playing in front of me. Yeah, and it just is the Projimski I'm sorry, and then there's a There's a period as a process that I got to go through coming off the bench Realizing that mm-hmm. I helped establish a dynasty and I got a couple so it took them quite a while to get a rhythm I think they have tough decisions to make I think it's far from over as far as them competing for a championship the question will be will they and uh not only do they have to decide with

Starting point is 01:39:40 clay but you also have to retool a little bit too. So they still have Steph Curry, so you're still going to be in the mix. As long as they got 30, right? Yeah, but I think, yeah, yes. At this point of Steph's career, he shouldn't have to work as hard night in, night out to get buckets. He had to work extremely hard this year to get buckets, to put his team in a position to be in the playing game. To your point, they need to retool,

Starting point is 01:40:12 they need to get a big, somebody who could demand the ball on the block, take some pressure off of him, let him have a couple catch and shoot opportunities where he can stand there and not have to run off screens all day. Gotta get younger. Yeah, and it's, should I agree with you Mark with the Clay thing?

Starting point is 01:40:36 Like, yeah, just those decisions, long term effects probably. But Clay's a professional and we know that it what he's built on so hope it's not his case but yeah no he got a lot of basketball to play man and he going he could help a team like I could see him going somewhere that like a Philly they got a dominant post-up player with clay can be clay right not ask him to come out and have to go hunting shots he gonna catch a shoot defend and be the professional that he is. Even someone like a Denver shooter. I love Michael Porter, but he don't shoot

Starting point is 01:41:11 that thing like Clay. Right. Even Orlando. Orlando. Needing experience, needing a shooter. He's very attractive as a shooter and a player to a lot of teams that are searching for a veteran that they can trust, and can open things up. So Monday morning, Shams reported...

Starting point is 01:41:28 Hold on really quick. Is he really that attractive though? Because he's going to come asking for the bag and he might be over the hill. So I got to ask you, is it really that attractive to get a Klay Thompson in Orlando? I'm about to pay him $150 million, $200 million. In Orlando? I got to keep it a buck. In Orlando?

Starting point is 01:41:43 No. Yeah, it's not worth it. I don't think he's going to be looking for that much money, to be honest, for one. I just don't. If somebody's willing to give it to him, of course he's going to take it. But if there's a general, if there's something

Starting point is 01:41:57 out there where it's like, it's not that, somewhere in between, I think at this point, Clay just wanted to prove that he still fucking could play basketball at a high level. Right. Okay, so I know he wanted at least four-year 100, right?

Starting point is 01:42:10 Yep. Is that what the number is? Because that's what they gave Draymond. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure in his mind he thinks he's valued more than Draymond. So, let's say, what,

Starting point is 01:42:19 24? He wanted that from, let's put it in context, though, to start off. He wanted that from the Warriors. He wanted that money from the Warriors. it in context though, to start off, he wanted that from the Warriors. He wanted that money from the Warriors. What you just said. Fourth or whatever, he wanted that from the team that he was with.

Starting point is 01:42:32 I'm giving him 20, 25 when you look around the league, who's making that kind of money. I agree. I still think he has plenty in the tank. Guys that can shoot the ball the way that he shoots the basketball has much more longevity than guys like me. He will still be relevant on the court because his presence and his ability to knock that shot down. So I think he still has plenty in the tank. I think he's a pro so he didn't

Starting point is 01:42:54 let go of the rope even though he was frustrated coming off the bench. But he will look forward to the challenge and to prove the doubters wrong again. So you think he still worked four for your 100? I do I Definitely do I'm which because they offered him what two years. Yeah two years 40 some 48 some shit like that So that's I mean, it's right there Yeah, we wanted more more years here. You want more security in which I can't blame him. What is it? I'm damn Yeah, right. That's from them. Yeah from them. Yeah. Right? Especially from them, yeah. From them. Like, that's the thing. Like, we're not talking about no other team.

Starting point is 01:43:27 Like, he wanted that because he felt that he earned what he... No, no, fuck, fuck, he did. I've earned this from you guys. Like, blood, sweat, tears, Achilles, ACL, all... Like, I did that shit here. Like, here. No, nowhere else. So, for him to expect that from them.

Starting point is 01:43:45 I get it. Especially in light of them paying Draymond. But it's naive. We're all sitting on this couch. We've been there. And that doesn't matter. Not at all. And what you don't want to do as organization or as owner

Starting point is 01:44:00 is pay guys for what they've done before. I saw, as a Yankee fan, I saw them do that to Derek Jeter. They owed it to him. Championships, the captain. But at some point, you got to make the right business decision. But isn't that how you get paid? You get paid off what you did, not what you're going to do. Right?

Starting point is 01:44:18 You know, so my contract's coming up. I'm coming up like, all right, I won a championship, made three all-NBA teams, made two all-stars blah blah blah This is what I'm worth versus saying. Oh four years. You're gonna be 38 Fuck what I gotta do with me what I do what I do in the next four years after I sign this Yeah, and let me know so if I don't do nothing mother got more zero Right, but this contract right here like when I But this contract, when I did the 111, yeah, when I signed that 111, I made three All-Stars, three All-NBAs.

Starting point is 01:44:51 I was on the cover of this. Right? And it was like, you ain't do nothing after. Yes. I didn't get paid nothing after. I didn't get a goddamn dollar after. God damn it. So what I did after I signed that contract matched my pay.

Starting point is 01:45:05 $0 out of the league, goddammit. Sitting in that hole watching. That's what my income was. It was a reflection of what I did the six years after I signed that contract. That's fair. So, Blue, leading this whole Clay discussion, you said, will the team be willing to overpay him? So Monday morning, Shams reported that there's mutual interest

Starting point is 01:45:26 between the Magic and Klay. Magic could have around $60 million in cap space this summer, and the four-time champ is high on their list of potential targets to surround around their young core, Apollo Bancaro and Franz Wagner. But for a question for all you on the couch, if you're Klay, how seriously would you consider dipping from the Warriors to get a bag with the Magic? Oh, man. If you're clay, how seriously would you consider dipping from the Warriors to get a bag with the magic? Man

Starting point is 01:45:51 I mean it got listen it got some he loved being on the ocean Yeah, I just don't think it's about the money at this point for me I think he of course is the money is what it is Like he's to try to get the most money he can possibly get. We know that. It's the point to prove that I can still play at a high level and that I'm

Starting point is 01:46:13 still relevant and I can still compete and help teams win. I think that's what drives Klay at this point. I would agree. You've been around him. I think he wants to prove people wrong. He wants to make the most money he can make, but

Starting point is 01:46:29 he wants to prove people wrong. And it gets personal. I can remember, you know, going to the finals, Kobe and Shaq's first championship. They played Indiana, my team. I was a free agent to follow after the finals. And they low-balled me. A decent deal, but a low-ball deal.

Starting point is 01:46:47 It became personal. So I signed as a free agent with the Toronto Raptors for a similar amount of money, but it was personal. I felt disrespected because of what we had accomplished as a team and what I poured into that. So I can understand if the money's similar, I can see Clay, this is just a guess, I have no inside information. I can see him saying, okay, you're not going to reward me after my blood, sweat, and tears. I'm going somewhere else.

Starting point is 01:47:16 So it'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. And Kenny, I know you said not about the money, but just with that magic, having $60 million to play with, you're talking about them being able to offer $5 to $10 million more, potentially, than what the Warriors would be able to offer. And this is a team that was fifth in the East, got a good young core. So it's a squad that's potentially continuing.

Starting point is 01:47:31 Also, the Sixers, another team that you mentioned, has the bread. Yeah, they can swim. Absolutely, if they have more money to spend, then they're willing to throw it his way. Yeah, and look, we're going to the playoffs. We need you. You're that piece. And we're rocking with you. Okay, I get it. But there's different

Starting point is 01:47:49 magics, offense, Philly's offense. That's not meant for Clay. Right? So you're going to be throwing that. I would consider that dead money. Like, the name sounds amazing. But if you don't have plays that's meant for this guy, how he plays... Philly. Yes

Starting point is 01:48:06 they Be careful. Yeah, you're the dominant player Is the post player right? Yeah, he averaged six assists this year Right you get a shooter that number goes up. He's throwing no disrespect You're throwing the ball to buy his're throwing the ball to Kelly Oubre You're throwing like so when you got a guy that knocked down shots That doesn't shouldn't have to work as hard now to get his shot off, right? Mm-hmm. You giving them same looks He's knocking them down. Yeah, but that's not how he's massive come down getting into paint

Starting point is 01:48:41 It works Basketball it works. No, but that's what I'm saying. You ain't got to win plays for him. But he's used to running off stuff. He's not used to just sitting in there like this stool waiting for the play coming. He's been moving. So he needs to be in the offense that look like Indiana running up and down, cutting back doors.

Starting point is 01:49:01 That's more his style. But why would I want to do that now that I can get the same looks? No, but that's his style, though. But why would I want to do that now and I can get the same looks? No, but that's his style, though. His style is moving. He's done conditioned himself to moving around. Yeah. I hear you. Yes, absolutely.

Starting point is 01:49:14 Like Cal Corvert. Yeah. Cal Corvert was used to speeding off, coming in and shooting like Duncan Robinson. They're used to doing this, sitting him in the corner and saying, all right, I'm going to give you the same 10 shots, but you're just sitting in the corner.

Starting point is 01:49:25 I don't know if it, it don't feel the same. I will say this, having him in the corner and saying, all right, I'm going to give you the same 10 shots, but you're just sitting in the corner. I don't know if it, it don't feel the same. I will say this, having coached him, there's certain guys that have a gift. If you and I played 48 minutes, I'm going to have 10 shots. You're going to have 40. Klay Thompson, you don't have to run nothing for him. And he's going to wind up with 20 shots. I don't, it would be amazing.

Starting point is 01:49:42 Like, this dude would just be in the right spot. At the right time spot at the right time and jacking up the shot. It doesn't matter who's on the court. You don't have to run a thing for Klay Thompson. He's going to get his looks. And you put better people around him, right? Yes.

Starting point is 01:49:57 Where the attention is going to be on Embiid, the attention is going to be on Tyrese Maxey. Those shots are there. I watched Philly play. I watched Philly play a lot of that shit. I didn't say I watched KJ play. I watched Philly play hoping my son was going to get the touchdown. But trust me, them dudes didn't shoot the... D'Anthony Melton probably was their most consistent shooting. He missed most of the year Right

Starting point is 01:50:30 So you put a guy like that? Was a sharpshooter now you hasn't did the double on him beat on to dig in certain situations you hesitant to Leave him now Tyrese Maxey getting to play one-on-one and gaps and stuff like that Cuz this guy's a dead shooter. And you know what he's going to do with them 15, 16 shots that he's getting. Now there's no pressure on him having to get, like, I just look at it in that regard. You put a post player around some guys, and they have special skill set. He's going to defend, he's going to compete, he's going to do all those things.

Starting point is 01:51:01 And what he does well is shoot the basketball. And some teams that have a big which is not a lot a Milwaukee can use him somebody like if you honest will get his ass on the block rather but Somebody that has a dominant big who demands attention clay will be great for But you said more can you see I'm playing I even I don't know if I'm clay I'm standing on the state bro Like it's gonna be more pressure him going to Philly because now you got to deliver Like now the print now you got to make them shots Orlando and because you plan

Starting point is 01:51:33 I mean, yeah, but you have to make them suck if you plan with him deed and you plan with Tyrese They three shots now you're on another level to win Last minute again level to win a finals. What he took was the last minute of the game. I don't know. I think if he just go to state, no pressure, and ball out, he'll get paid. If he go to Philly... You asked me to come off the bench, dude. I'm out of this bitch, man. I mean...

Starting point is 01:51:54 I'm going to be straight up my ex-meat, man. You asked me to come off the bench. I'm out of this bitch, man. All right, well, don't go nowhere else. I feel disrespected, man. You know you, man. When right. Well don't go don't go nowhere else. So disrespected man. Do you be you know you been I can't put You as that when that disrespect me when you feel disrespected It's a sign of disrespect to him if I'm never coming off I'm not for them not for this organization. No, not a chance

Starting point is 01:52:26 No, I'll come back from Andrew. You got me on many restriction cool. I still need to start Seven minute restriction. Yeah cool start on the jump ball. Yeah Let a clock stop, but you're not you're not asking me to come off the bench for a rookie Just not doing it. Not when I didn't did what I have here. Mm-hmm. It's disrespectful Like the conversation we had in mother like you bring Allen Iverson and you ask him to come off the bench for your own Before what point it is what he looks like right now who did that? Memphis Detroit Yeah, that's Allen Ivers. You started looking around like, hey, that's a problem.

Starting point is 01:53:07 They couldn't say nothing. Like Ant-Man tried to, for who? Yeah, like on the Olympic team. Like Dwyane Wade for Kobe, where's Kobe at? Because you asking Kobe to come off the bench. Yeah, like Anthony Elmstein, he looking around like, we ain't got no Kobe on this roster. We ain't got no Kobe on this roster Like no like there is that like play behind him I'm is disrespectful man

Starting point is 01:53:45 Straight up this is this is laughable like man does man really Oh cool Cool. Hmm. Gen C? All right. I was going to try that move when I got to Orlando and Memphis, too. But I realized I was just happy to be in the league, but still after my gun thing. You're going to come off the bench. Thank you. Hey, but guess what if you would have had over that mantle over there? Uh-huh. If you would have had that thing that got them three letters on it,

Starting point is 01:54:03 M-V-P, you could have made an argument for yourself, even with the gun thing. Yeah, I was... You could have made an argument for it. It probably wouldn't have went your way. It wouldn't have went your way because you got your thing,

Starting point is 01:54:15 but just still, there's certain people, like I said, there's certain people, and especially what they've done for your organization. It was like after 17 and didn't come off the bench like and that's not a

Starting point is 01:54:26 Yeah, you supposed to wait till they get like the eight five three Certain people that do certain stuff for their organization Right just in the right just getting a game. Well, just clay there, right, right? The or Allen Iverson coming off the bench. No No matter where it's at at the point where he was at in his career? No. He had a 17 the year before, and then he said, come off the bench. In Memphis.

Starting point is 01:54:51 You're talking about Memphis, right? In Memphis of all places. Memphis. Not in Memphis. And playing behind who? Mike Conley? Anyone who's asking? We got an audience question right now.

Starting point is 01:55:09 Yeah, my question is for you, Coach Jackson. So when did you know that Steph Curry was kind of just more than an all-star, was like a generational player? When did you see that? Well, we did, as an analyst, once a year we would do a college game, Jeff Van Gundy and Mike Breen and myself. We did Davidson at Duke.

Starting point is 01:55:30 And I knew him as a kid in Toronto playing with his dad, but Davidson at Duke is when it jumped out that he clearly was a point guard. The question was, he was a shooter, could he play the point? He's too small. I realized right away he's a point guard just by watching him up close. Then having the privilege and honor of coaching him, right away you just know he's special. Loves the game. You don't have to beg him to get in the gym. He's as fine a human being as the league has ever seen. He had no weaknesses, no flaws.

Starting point is 01:56:08 It just, probably early on, he had to get physically stronger. And right away, you can tell his presence on the court. Just, it was, I can't even put into words how special it was to have an opportunity to coach him and witness up front and watch the way he's changed the game. So, with a player like that since you had him when he came in, when he's coming out there playing his style, was it one of those things you just had to sit back first? Well, I realized if I wanted to win, I had to give him the green light. And the first thing in my first meeting, because I was calling Warrior Games during the year

Starting point is 01:56:46 before I got the job, and I'm calling the games, and A.C. Law was finishing the fourth quarters for the Golden State Warriors. Steph Curry was on the bench. This isn't a knock towards anybody. It's just the way that the game plan was. So my first meeting with Steph was,

Starting point is 01:57:01 I'm either going to get fired or I'm going to win, but you are not coming out the game down the stretch of ballgames. So it basically released him to let his head down and not be afraid to make mistakes. And it propelled him to greatness. But it's all of what was on the inside of him, his abilities, his commitment, his competitive drive, the way he worked. Like, I mean, Clay and Steph stay in the gym shooting shots all day long. And the culture was established. But it was instilling confidence in him the same way that Coach Rick Pitino

Starting point is 01:57:37 in my rookie year instilled confidence. I thought I was better than Magic Johnson. Who told me I was the best point guard in the league? I'm playing against Magic like, yo, you're the second in the guard. Now, sitting here now, that was ignorant. That's just stupid. But he had me convinced. And I realized, if you pour in the dudes, not lie to them, but he was telling me some truth, if you pour in the dudes and believe in them, you don't know where they can end up. We've seen great players be destroyed. I saw Pearl Washington, as good as New York has ever had, only play a couple of years where they can end up. We've seen great players be destroyed.

Starting point is 01:58:08 I saw Pearl Washington, as good as New York has ever had, only play a couple of years in the league because he got to the league, experienced some tough times, and nobody poured into him. So it can be a world beater or it can deflate you. So we talked a little bit about just you and your coaching experience. So our friends over at It Is What It Is posted this on Instagram yesterday. Give Mark Jackson another chance to coach in the NBA. They also included a link to a petition on change.org.

Starting point is 01:58:38 You see a link in bio to sign their petition. So clearly there's support for this idea, but do you still want to coach? Can you send that to me? I want to Want to sign what was your question? Me obviously clearly your support for the idea, but do you still want to coach in the league? I do have dreams and aspirations of one day coaching again. I look forward to the opportunity It's frustrating that it hasn't happened

Starting point is 01:59:03 but at the same time a total trust in God God that ultimately somebody will give me an opportunity, and I look forward to impacting lives and winning ballgames and being in the thick as a coach again. So would you coach college? I would definitely consider coaching college. I think you would be more, just me, knowing you and being around you a little bit, I think you're more suited for them dudes, man. They can use you more. I think you'll be more, just me, knowing you and being around you a little bit, I think you're more suited for them dudes, man. They can use you more.

Starting point is 01:59:28 I appreciate it. Because you're helping them become men. You're getting young men and you're helping them become men. No, I certainly appreciate that. That's my personal opinion. No, no, I take it. I appreciate that. From my standpoint, I believe that I have the ability to impact college and pros.

Starting point is 01:59:46 So whatever opportunity presents itself, I can... There was success in Golden State. 19 straight years, one trip to the playoffs, and all of a sudden we make the playoffs after the first year, two years in a row, and win 50 games. Wasn't me, it was us. We did a great job of establishing the culture and changing the culture. So I'm honored to have played a role. Proof is in the pudding.

Starting point is 02:00:07 I'm seeing guys get three and four and five opportunities that, you know, you can question. You don't got to say no names, but... There's no petitions for them. They're not. Some of them don't even deserve petitions. As soon as you sit in it, nope. Nope. Will not sign.

Starting point is 02:00:30 So you made the leap to NBA head coach without prior coaching experience in the league. What advice would you give to other former players looking to make a similar move? I think one on this couch who has a brilliant basketball mind, who tried to get the Wizards job earlier this season, did not. Did you try to get the Wizards job? It was my troll we applied only day I Will say this it didn't just happen when I was hired as the Golden State Warriors coach My entire life. I wasn't as gifted as these guys from the point guard position.

Starting point is 02:01:06 I had to think the game and be the smartest dude on the court at a young age. So the only way I could make it wasn't outscoring or outjumping. It was outthinking. So I thought the game, no matter where and when I played. So I was an extension of the coach on the floor as a kid. It is tough for a person that plays the game without thinking. Like if I watch, so I was an extension of the coach on the floor as a kid. It is tough for a person that plays the game without thinking. If I watch Indiana Pacers and I'm hiring one guy as my next coach, it's T.J. McConnell. As great as Tyrese Halliburton is, T.J. McConnell has a coaching mentality when he's on the floor. The game comes easy to Tyrese, I say that respectfully and the similarities of me

Starting point is 02:01:46 so I would say the right person You can you can make the jump from never coaching to have coached But you have to be a student of the game It does it doesn't come easy and I'm fortunate enough that I took it serious from day one. I watched the greats I've played for seven eight Hall of Fame coaches I stole from them not just what to do but what not to do and then do everything right So it put me in position that when the time came and my number was call as a coach

Starting point is 02:02:14 I was locked ready and loaded. It's probably more what not to do. Yeah certain guys, you know one of them. Don't do this. So you've been in the media as well as a coach. A name that's been circulating right now for some coaching opportunities, J.J. Redick. I think he's interviewed for a few jobs in the past few years. How do you think J.J. would work as the head coach of the league? Well, I know him as a player. I know him as an analyst and had an outstanding career. Obviously knows the game. With coaching, you know,

Starting point is 02:02:59 it's the opportunity that you get. So if he gets the opportunity to coach a legitimate team You're gonna win some games Coaching a team that Is not a good team at this time is more of a challenge I think it'd be fine. It's just a question of what job he gets because that ultimately Seals the deal for you as a coach Steve Ker Kerr turns down the Nick job, takes the Warrior job. He's a brilliant basketball mind, future Hall of Famer,

Starting point is 02:03:31 and rightfully so has done an incredible job. I'm sure that Steve Kerr will attest to the fact that if he took the Nick job, his career as a coach isn't in the same place today. And he's done an incredible job and been nothing but great to me. I got respect for him, but he'd be the first to tell you it's about the job that he took that propelled him and allowed him to be one of the greats yeah when you judge in coaching should all coaches be judged on winning if they're not given the same, like, like, um, let's say you, you given, uh, a young team, should your wins and losses be factored in over how you develop them?

Starting point is 02:04:17 No. Okay. Well, forgive me if I'm misunderstanding the question, but I'm going to answer it this way. I can look at a team that's 500 and look at a team that's 20 games over 500 and know that that 500 team has coached better. Their habits, the culture, who's engaged in the huddle, who's looking at the coach, who's rotating defensively, who's playing unselfish basketball. Who's showing up on time. How is the workouts two hours before the game, what are the coaches doing? Is the dude throwing a behind the back pass? Are they going through the motions? So you can tell, but you gotta be around.

Starting point is 02:04:57 That's why it irritates me so much when we hear a reporter say, Junebug, the number four assistant on this team's staff, is a brilliant basketball mind. You don't know Junebug, the number four assistant on this team's staff, is a brilliant basketball mind. You don't know Junebug. You ain't even around him. But because Junebug pouring you information, all of a sudden, he's the next dude. I'm being too real.

Starting point is 02:05:16 No, no, no. That's what we do on the show. Yeah, so I was just trying to figure out when some of these guys get fired and they're like, oh, this team ain't winning. And I was like, no, but those players are getting better. So you can see he's changing them. Some of these coaches are just getting good teams.

Starting point is 02:05:33 It doesn't make them good coaches. The team was good. You know, this team won 50 games. You know, he got kicked out. He came in. He won 52 games. And he coached it a year. Get the fuck out of here. That don't even make sense.

Starting point is 02:05:46 And he didn't do nothing, right? He just sat there. Yeah, that's just like if you didn't know how a restaurant works, right? If you didn't know how a restaurant works. And the dude that brought the food out to you, you thought he cooked the bitch, right? Like, damn, you good at this. You good. Like, man, when did I...

Starting point is 02:06:02 And he popping his collar. Yeah, like, yeah. Yeah, I do this. And that's his. We tipping it we tipping him not to share But that's I'll be looking at some coaches I'm like damn why he get fired we didn't even expect them to win anyway That team wasn't even good enough to win, but I can see old he's developed most improved, right? You got a six man in a year on that. Yeah, y'all might not have won 40-something games, but you went from 12 to 22. You're trending in the right direction.

Starting point is 02:06:32 Yes. So you got a job. Your team got good hats. Yeah, you got a good job. Like, I think there's some building coaches. There's some, you know, playoff coaches. And then there's some championship coaches. You know, some guys, some coaches, like, I'm like, oh, you know, playoff coaches, and then there's some championship coaches.

Starting point is 02:06:48 You know, some guys, some coaches, like, I'm like, oh, you can't. I'm not going to put you on a team down here. You might not. Like a Phil Jackson, it don't look like you can coach this type of team. No, he couldn't have coached Charlotte this past year. Yeah, you can't coach a bottom-feeding team. You know, you're one of those coaches that needs the talent, and you can direct them in the right place. Versus sitting there babysitting.

Starting point is 02:07:07 There's some coaches, hey, they're good babysitters. It's like that's what I'm saying. If I'm hiring somebody on my depending on what organization I have and I'm like, well, my team is going to be some shit for the next six years. Can someone put some type of life into it? I'm hiring

Starting point is 02:07:24 him. Hey, don't worry about the wins and losses Just make sure these guys are ready to be when it's time to turn them over. They're ready for that Right if you I got a championship team and I hire you goddammit. That's what I'm expecting. Mm-hmm if we made it to the Western Conference Finals last year and I Expect nothing less. I'm just saying whoever got the buck, hey. I expect nothing less. I'm just saying, whoever got the Bucs job, I didn't need a coach to lose in the first round. I could have did that without a coach.

Starting point is 02:07:52 I'm just saying, losing in the first round, I could have did that without the Bucs. To be honest, I didn't even need no coach to do what we did. 17 and 20, I could have did that without a coach, motherfucker. As many wins as we had before you got here, 17 and 20, I didn't even need a coach to do this we did. 17 and 20. I could have did that without a coach, motherfucker. As many wins as we had before you got here, 17 and 20. I didn't even need a coach to do this right here. I'm just saying.

Starting point is 02:08:11 I didn't have to pay no extra money for this fucking record. I was just saying, for this fucking record, you fired, dog. You just lost me, what, 40 million? Because 17 and 20, let me see. All right, let's take this coach out. You can give me 17 and 20, right it's $40 million. Because $17 and $20, let me see. All right, let's take this coach out.

Starting point is 02:08:27 You can give me $17 and $20, right? Three games under $500. You can do that with these two motherfuckers? Okay, cool. Yeah. Yes, that's it. Deal no longer a Bucs fan. No longer a Dr. Ruben.

Starting point is 02:08:37 I'm just being honest. No, no, I mean, it's over. It's over with now. I'm just being honest. Like, when I'm looking at it, fuck it all. It's $30 and $13. And what am I expecting when I get you? This is what I'm expecting. This. When I'm looking at it, fuck it all, it's 30 and 13, and what am I expecting when I get you? This is what I'm expecting?

Starting point is 02:08:47 This is what I got? I can't say you're this guy then. I'm so glad we cool. No, no, no. I just judge it like that. I'm judging like, what am I expecting? But your track record before you, you good. Yeah, I was like, what is the track record?

Starting point is 02:09:03 Let me see how you moving. So when get here even you're gonna maintain or jump No, if no one expected 17 and 20, let's just be honest. So you're not happy with that who? Yeah Before it even started. Oh, this is the worst motherfucker to get Honest was hurt and that's win in was hurt. No, that's when? In the playoffs. No, I'm talking about regular season. I started, this started as soon as he got the job.

Starting point is 02:09:30 As soon as he got the job. I was like, oh, hell no. Y'all going to be mad as shit. Oh, day one. Day one. Listen, day one. I said, oh. Very consistent.

Starting point is 02:09:38 As we call it, man, when Glenn got the job, Gil was on Glenn's ass. Like, way to fit. Every conversation had nothing to do with him. He'd bring it right back to him. Right, we could be talking about some totally different that we talked about on Monday. It's Thursday and Gil, bro, he's going to bring Glenn's ass right back to the fire. Put it right back on the grill. Because it's that memory he got in his head.

Starting point is 02:10:12 But the record over time has given him ammunition to use it, right? Just walk the algorithm. Him coming back, him doing it this year, didn't fucking help his argument with this motherfucker at all. I'm watching that algorithm. I'm like Not it This motherfucker like the weatherman He will be a bad way Told me was it gonna rain is rainy and shit out of it and he still get to keep his job

Starting point is 02:10:37 This is crazy. Like it just it just it didn't make this whole get in for some defense They said he was 41 and 41 got coach of the year. Listen, he lost this Like it's not like they won one game last year and 41 and 41 is an upgrade They won the year before he got there, you know, you know, he's gonna be in the Hall of Fame, right? I know. I get it. Yeah, I know. That has no barrier. Ain't shit I can do about it. Like, what's so funny is if I got to vote, I'm like, I mean, God damn it. For the record, I mean, shit, I got to give it to him, but I'm not happy. All right, I'm going to write, I'm not happy with this decision.

Starting point is 02:11:19 I'm going to, okay, first ballot, got you, but not happy. I'm going to give it to him but i'm not gonna be happy about his name you know i'm gonna write a balance are you a motherfucking anonymous glenn write my name anonymous gilbert wrote this month just so you know it's not biased i'm gonna give you a credit but i just don't appreciate them putting you over here you're very opinionated but uh honest and fair man but mark one more thing i want to get to you on before we hit up mostly fans so jj reddick was on them putting you over here. You're very opinionated, but honest and fair, man. But Mark, one more thing

Starting point is 02:11:45 I want to get to you on before we hit up Mostly Fans. So, J.J. Reddick was on Shaq's podcast recently and talked about how MJ's prime was watered down in the NBA due to expansion. You came into the league

Starting point is 02:11:55 a season before the first wave of expansion with the Hornets and Heat debuting in 1988 and Magic and T-Wolves in 1989. What impact did expansion have on the quality of competition in the league

Starting point is 02:12:04 in the early stages? And would you say that the league was watered down or do you disagree with that statement? I disagree. Yes. I disagree. Point for Gilbert. I mean, you had very good talent on those teams.

Starting point is 02:12:20 You can go back and you look at those teams that came into the league and the way that they picked guys off of different rosters throughout the league, signed free agents, had draft choices. There's no disrespect to Michael Jordan. I mean, Michael Jordan is the GOAT. He's the GOAT. I don't care who he played against.

Starting point is 02:12:38 He's the GOAT. He played against legit dudes. And I can say if there's 25, 30 teams in the league in 1990, there's a bunch of max players if you fast forward and bring them in 2024 on every single roster. You can't tell me that's not a max guard over there. That's not a max power forward. That's not a max combo guard over here. I'm just a regular dude. But the bottom line is the talent level can be debated.

Starting point is 02:13:07 So I understand what JJ was trying to say. And sometimes we say things to draw the attention. Michael Jordan, there's only five people alive that played against, five people in history that played against Jordan, LeBron, and Kareem. And I'm fortunate enough to be one of them. Michael Jordan is the gold basketball player. And he's He's the reason why a lot of guys don't have jewelry

Starting point is 02:13:28 And they put they put the work in a lot of greats. That's why I don't believe that Everybody that every everybody don't win a championship is not a champion and there's some dudes that got rings That's they're not champion. What you talk about this? That's a fact. You guys wanted a not championship Losers win sometimes That's just how it goes a day on the team with a winner. Yeah Everybody gets credit when there's a winner. I'm saying that ring is on eBay There's some backseat guys there's some backseat guys in the back here getting credit like they was the driver the cause I'm like you wasn't that you wasn't the dog. It really is disrespectful to the greats.

Starting point is 02:14:05 There's some greats that haven't won championships. Yeah. And there's some regular dudes acting like they was that. Walking around. They cut from a different cloth. I'm like, come on, man.

Starting point is 02:14:14 Well, coming in the league, 88, and seeing MJ, and just throughout your time, the remaining time in the league of your 72. That was his year. Or 87, excuse me.

Starting point is 02:14:23 87, 88. Yeah, that was, that was the, that was, 87, 88. Yeah, that was the... Oh, yeah, you got to see the greatest year ever. That was that year. Yo, Ricky, you was like, oh, yeah, this is MJ. No, he was a different level. He was an absolute different level. And I played him in college, St. John's, North Carolina,

Starting point is 02:14:40 in Madison Square Garden. He was special then. But playing against him in the league, and we had... You know how you can have a good dude at the position that you feel comfortable with? It didn't matter. It absolutely didn't matter. And I can remember playing him in the playoffs and Pat Riley saying, we're not going to say anything to edge him on or think that we taking a shot at him. next morning Gerald Wilkins, I'm the Jordan stopper. Headlines in the paper, we like, uh oh, it's over. Yeah, yeah. It's over.

Starting point is 02:15:11 I can remember, I was benched. So we're playing the Bulls. So, I never told this story. I was benched, so we're playing the Bulls. So I get a call the night before. You want to play some cards and hang out, whatever, just chill. I go into the city, go to Mike's room, play cards. I'm not playing. I know I'm benched. So I'm playing cards. I'm doing my job.

Starting point is 02:15:34 I'm going to keep them up all night. We're playing cards all night. So shoot around is at 10 in the morning. We finish playing at 8. I got to now drive so I'm not late. So I get no sleep. I drive to SUNY Purchase practice facility. We practice. Game that night.

Starting point is 02:15:51 I take a quick nap. Got to hit the road. Game in the garden. I'm sitting on the bench. I am tired. I'm sitting there like, this dude got 50. I'm like, how is this dude still surviving? But he did it to everybody and every single night

Starting point is 02:16:06 He said I would be like I was I was Doing whatever you look tired over there Look tired over there. He's special you push the the hearts. And you guys know his mentality was different. The only guy I've faced with the same mentality is the late, great, obviously, Kobe Bryant. Now, Magic Johnson wanted to win, and he had a killer's mentality. Those two dudes would be willing to die on the court. How was Bird? Incredible. how was how was bird incredible and larry bird is if not for lebron james he's the greatest

Starting point is 02:16:49 small forward to ever play the game he was he was that great and talk trash and tell you what he was going to do and did it and i had the privilege to play for him as a coach he was spectacular but brilliant basketball mind and brilliant player so we have this debate and this comes up on this couch a few times about him not ever being mentioned when people talk about the Greatest basketball players ever play Right ain't saying he's the greatest when he's like but people forget. Yeah, Larry Bird was really really special Time out time out if a dude comes and just washes your whole legacy, I'm sorry, we're not going to talk about you being the best football forward of all time.

Starting point is 02:17:30 You sure? We washed you, sir. You been ready? He said, you sure that ain't my kid? Come sit next to your pops. How did he wash his career? This dude has 40,000 points. And? And. And multiple championships. And what else? What dude has 40,000 points. And?

Starting point is 02:17:45 And. And multiple championships. And what else? What you want me to go down the whole? He has multiple championships too. Going down, going down accolade for accolade. Larry Bird was that dude.

Starting point is 02:17:56 Larry Bird's not, if we go after accolades, he can't mess with LeBron. We're talking about accolades. His career. We're talking about the greatest player all the time. You got to have both. His career.

Starting point is 02:18:04 So y'all want to keep talking about these fucking numbers. If we line it up for 18 years straight, you take Larry Bird. I'm going to take LeBron. You can take him. I'm not taking anything off LeBron's plate, but you're taking shit off Larry Bird's plate. No, not at all. Yes, you are. You said he watched his career.

Starting point is 02:18:18 He can't be in the discussion with LeBron and Michael Jordan. He can't. He can be right behind. We can talk about him with KD. Let's have a debate about Larry Bird and K Jordan. He can. He can be right behind. We can talk about him with KD. Let's have a debate about Larry Bird and KD. Did I say that Larry Bird was mentioned with LeBron

Starting point is 02:18:31 and Michael Jordan and LeBron James? Did I say that? No, but you said he should be mentioned more in the GOAT conversation. With a great basketball player of his time. So people forget how great Larry Bird was is what I said. Right? And you just said that he washed this man's career. Because of what LeBron did.

Starting point is 02:18:51 You know what's funny is? Yes. Reason. And your guy's still at number two. Your guy at number six? My guy's Michael George. My guy's Michael George. My greatest basketball, football, and time is Michael George. So guy is Michael George. My greatest basketball, football, time is Michael George.

Starting point is 02:19:05 You know, so, if we want to stack shit, we, so it washes him because he ain't never lost in a fight. You want to start talking

Starting point is 02:19:12 about numbers and clutch shit? No, we want to talk that or we want to talk about individual careers, right? Yeah.

Starting point is 02:19:20 Larry Bird career that people forget about how good this man was. No one forgets No, every time they got an MVP and there's a two-time MVP Remind me like oh shit Larry Bird got three. We're not gonna allow this. So yes cheat They remind us every year. They remind us every year, god damn it.

Starting point is 02:19:47 So this is the argument that I have and other people, and I'm pretty sure your pops can agree with this, like appreciating people, right? Appreciating Michael Jordan's greatness. Appreciating Magic Johnson's greatness. Appreciating Larry Bird's greatness. LeBron's, like, Kobe's greatness. You know what it is. I have to appreciate that

Starting point is 02:20:21 There's a lot of motherfuckers who I'm not a fan of but guess what what I appreciate what they know It is okay. I don't expect work the man did now. You know what it is. So you can't so you so No, no, no what I'm saying is about to say what I'm saying is he could be a great player do but he just don't Do nothing for the body work. No, you don't respect the body. No, because let because just like you said Larry Bird I respect LeBron James body work way more than that. So Why does it have to be more why you just can't say I respect with Larry Bird deal there bro watch out why I know Losing the magic so you were losing again No, but the only point I'll make is I understand the mindset.

Starting point is 02:21:08 Okay, then. But if Larry Bird and Magic Johnson doesn't come along, we don't eat. They save the league. Their impact put us in position to eat. So, Rich, I respect that. What does that mean? You know young people. Hey, hey, young people.

Starting point is 02:21:23 I don't give a fuck who built this home. Congrats. Give it to me. Great job. Great job. That's how it is. I don't give a fuck who built the phone. I got it, okay? I don't need to pay homage to the first person sitting there with, just give me my goddamn phone, okay? You realize what Alexander Graham Bell had to do. Like, damn him. He realized at the final.

Starting point is 02:21:44 Right? Damn Alexander Graham Bell had to do. He's like, damn him. He realized that the finals... Right? Damn Alexander Graham Bell, right? I don't care y'all had to take public transportation. Yeah, they ain't got nothing to do with that. Tesla, Jason. We got privates now. That's all I know. Y'all realize that the finals was on tape delay?

Starting point is 02:21:57 Yes. Yeah, they changed the game and put us in position to... Well, I mean, it was on tape delay because of the cocaine. That was the reason. We had to make sure everything went all right. Hey, Mark, we know that. Hey, we had to play the game first. We're like, all right, all right, all right.

Starting point is 02:22:13 Okay, push it out. Let's move on to mostly fans on that note. No, but, K-Mart, no, you got to think about it like this, too. The generation that gets to speak for 88, mid-90s, they don't have the voice. I understand. You know, so there was a, like, when I was talking to, like, the big three, you know, most of those, the legends are there. And just talking to them, and I'm like, yo, the stories you have, even with your dad, the stories y'all have, this is an untapped market.

Starting point is 02:22:46 The golden era of basketball, the era everyone is intrigued with. The non-rules, the drugs you should take. The league where we don't know today. This was a league where there was 200 people being drafted. Those stories are not out because that era don't have podcasts that era don't talk well here now yeah you're here now because like there was there was stories about mark jackson there were stories where dr james was sitting here like this yeah like you did what put his dad in 2024 he's a max player yeah he's a superstar i have a different lifestyle i'm not on this couch. It's a life of leisure

Starting point is 02:23:28 Fuck you I'm pretty sure he wouldn't get you shit anyway I would have finessed it but let's move on to mostly fans. We got our first question underdog user Ken Lawrence. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Both players 29 years old. At the end of their career when they retire, who do you think will have a better resume, Giannis or Jokic? Thanks. So we're going to go around the couch quickly.

Starting point is 02:23:57 Both 29 at the end of their careers, who will have the better resume, Giannis or Joker? Blue, who you got? I got Joker, man. I got Joker. Just barely, though. And there's a lot of pressure on him right now in this series, because if he goes out the wrong way,

Starting point is 02:24:12 then it'll change, but Joker. That's a great question. It's awfully close. Twist my arm, and I got to say Joker. Ooh. Mr. Arenas. I mean, just to see the way they alter stats or make up stats, you know, Ford, you know, Jokic. And, you know, the fact that Giannis is pushing in the 30s and 12, Jokic is going to be in the 20s and 12.

Starting point is 02:24:37 But those assists is what intrigues everyone. They both got two MVPs, one... One finals MVP. Finals and finals MVP. Only because of those assists, man. I got to give it to Jokic. Kenya, how about yourself? Yeah.

Starting point is 02:25:01 Because I want Giannis to slow down, man. I want him to get in the half court, get on the block, man. I'm thinking, I'm trying to think what he's done to buy that work so far and not me being hopeful and wishful, because we know where hope works. Yes, we do. That's where we stand right now. I'm just going to have to say Giannis is going to keep running full speed and running over people

Starting point is 02:25:29 Not to go in the kola and Brendan, you know, I'm going on it, okay, mr. Bucks is sick Like okay if we take away if we take away yogi just assists So then it's but then it differs. Yes. He didn't as the honest. Okay, see that's if works with her No, but then you got it because one is damn it but here points difference Yeah, but then he'll make free throws is it you got then you start talking basket now Now you got to start nipping you won't take the sister way, right? Yeah That's why This the one that throws it over because that's the one everybody really chimes on it's guys won't do slow down man So mark and blue we want to thank you for pulling up to gills arena Make sure you subscribe

Starting point is 02:26:19 Make sure you subscribe to the come and talk to me YouTube channel watch the more that I know throw the link in the presented By her dog fantasy make sure y channel. Watch the Mark Jackson show. Throw the link in the... Presented by Underdog Fantasy. Make sure y'all watch the Mark Jackson show diligently. We appreciate y'all. Love having y'all in the Underdog family doing big things here at Underdog Fantasy. Woo-woo! Woo-woo! This has been another episode of Gil's Arena presented by Underdog Fantasy.

Starting point is 02:26:38 Woo-woo! Woo-woo! We will see y'all Wednesday, which is tomorrow. I'm talking about today. That's not a question. Uh-huh. We will see y'all Wednesday, which is tomorrow. I'm talking about today. That's not a question. You have to play right I didn't say it on the show Outro Music

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Gil's Arena - Mark Jackson GETS REAL On The Knicks, NBA Playoffs & Head Coaching

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