Gil's Arena - Rich Paul Schools Gilbert Arenas On NBA Business

Episode Date: September 4, 2023

Rich Paul Schools Gilbert Arenas On NBA Business in this EXCLUSIVE Gil's Arena interview to round out Season 1. Rich gives Gilbert and the Gil's Arena Crew heaps of knowledge and tips he's learned about the business of the NBA on his road to becoming one of the best super agents in all of sports. They discuss everything from The NBA Draft, Lebron James vs Michael Jordan to the future of shoe deals and fill in the gaps with a wealth of golden nuggets. Please remember to like and subscribe!! Gil’s Arena premieres every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday at 11:30am PT / 2:30pm ET. Sign up for Underdog Fantasy HERE with promo code GILSARENA and get a $100 first deposit match: https://play.underdogfantasy.com/p-gil's-arena SUBSCRIBE:  / @gilsarena   APPAREL PARTNERS TUFF CROWD: https://www.tuffcrowd.com/ ADIDAS: https://www.adidas.com/us/agent-gil-restomod-basketball-shoes/ Gr8ness: https://www.gr8nss.store/ Pre-Order Rashad's Book Here - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CD9ZQ3HD?ref_=pe_3052080_276849420 CHAPTERS: 00:00 Intro 00:26 Rich Paul Enters Gils Arena 01:22 Rich Paul On This Historic Offseason 07:44 How The NBA Draft Works  12:08 How NBA Business Has Changed 19:29 The Keys To Being A Great Agent 25:26 The Eco System Of The Athlete  32:26 Rich Paul Weighs In On G.O.A.T Debate 42:42 Turning Point For Lebron 47:22 How Legit Is Lakers “Bubble Ring”? 50:39 The Game Within The Game 1:07:05 How Older Stars Adapt To new Roles 1:09:19 The Future Of Shoe Deals 1:15:15 Klutch Athletics 1:20:36 Best Agent Ever? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Instacart. Groceries that over-deliver. I sacrificed a lot. I missed out a lot. But I didn't really miss out because I lived that life already. For me, it's always fit over pick. I really out a lot. But I didn't really miss out, because I lived that life already. Yes, sir. For me, it's always fit over pick. I really don't care what pick you are. I mean, I just think LeBron's antlers is in platinum and Michael's may be in gold. Nobody's really building a signature shoe business that

hasn't already built it. I ain't ducking no smoke. I stood in the fire with Ben Simmons. I stood right there. This is 148. Welcome back to Gil's Arena presented by Underdog Fantasy. We got our crowd here back with the living legend Gilbert Arenas. We got Brandon James, Rashad McCants. We got Canyon Martin pulling back up to the couch.

But we got a very special guest making his first appearance in the arena. Founder and CEO of Clutch Sports Group. Represents some of the biggest names in the game. Negotiated billions of dollars in deals on the basketball side. Y'all also taking over football and other sports as well. And he's got his book dropping soon called Lucky Me, which is a memoir. Rich Paul, we appreciate

you pulling up to Gil's Arena. Oh man, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Thank you. so we got plenty of things we need to discuss but before we get into all that as always shows brought to you by underdog fantasy if you have not done so already download the app use promo code gills arena they will match your first deposit up to 100 and if you can't watch the show live with us get it on spotify get it on apple wherever you get your podcast from so let's get right into it man you had a productive summer i'm just gonna read off some of the deals that you've negotiated.

Jeremy Grant, five-year, 160. Fred Van Fleet, three-year, 130 with the Rockets, largest deal for an undrafted player in NBA history. DeJounte Murray, four for 120 with the Hawks. Draymond, four for 100 with the Warriors. Jordan Clarkson, three for 55. And Anthony Davis, three for 186, which puts him at the largest annual average salary per year. Did I get that all correct?

Yeah. So after you did all that, like... Damn, I want to play again. Gil, get your ass back in the game. What? Whoosh! So first day of free agency, LeBron dropped this tweet after you got the Grant, FEV, and Draymond deals.

He said, and y'all still want to question this Rich Paul hymn. It says a lot about you. If you're not feeling us, I told him less is more is plenty of us. So when you look at this offseason, where does this offseason rank in your career? Oh, man, I mean, I think the numbers speak for itself. But, you know, it's like there's a few in there that's missing, you know, but I think this summer the most impactful deal I probably did this summer was probably Chris Livingston, you know. He was the 58th pick

in the draft and he got guaranteed money. That's $7 million? Yeah, I mean, he got a four-year deal, but, you know, obviously he got a first-round structure on the guaranteed money, which is unheard of. You know, B.J. Boston was 51, was the highest paid player ever at 51 to get guaranteed money at that number. And then to come back with Chris, and it's because I think people underestimate the importance

of a start for these young guys, right? And so the way the game is now and the way the league is structured now, we add another two-way player to rosters. It's hard. It's hard to stay contracted to a team from a guaranteed perspective, you know? And you're creating this environment where you're going to have the half and half not. So to be able to get that young man an opportunity

in which he, you know, he had a rough road. Top player, McDonald's All-American, all those things, and then you go to school, and it don't work the way you thought it would because obviously it's not in your control, right? And so I thought up there with all those other numbers, not to discredit any of them because obviously they're unbelievable, but that one was, for me and how I look at things,

that one was just as big as any of them. So we heard Austin Reeves tell this story about, I think, how the Pistons wanted to draft him. His people said, no, he's going to roll with the Lakers. I'd rather go and draft him. So a team's calling you, telling you they want to draft Chris. His people said, nah, he's going to roll with the Lakers. I'd rather go undrafted. So teams call you, tell you they want to draft Chris. How hard is that conversation for you to be like, nah, don't even fuck with him. We know where we're going. You know, I actually was calling them. Like, just don't even. Because I had already had

an understanding. It was about, for me, it's always fit over pick. I really don't care what pick you are. I mean, we got a lot of picks in the building, second round pick in the building. But for me, it's just being able to see past a commission or an ability to go to the next draft pick per se and say, look what I did. It's more so being able to position these guys to where you have what I would say growth opportunity. So as I'm looking at the situation with the Bucs, I'm looking at a kid 6'7", 220, right? Knows how to play in terms of talent, needs to learn how to play in terms of NBA, but

you need time. So when you look at their ownership group, Jimmy Haslam, new owner with West Edens, okay? They're not going anywhere. When you look at their front office, John Horace, championship front office. When you look at their vets, Giroux, Giannis, and Chris Middleton, all great guys. So when you place a kid in that environment,

less becomes more for him to be successful. And if you give him the information to where he understands the environment I'm going into and what I need to do and what my role needs to be, now you go from having two years guaranteed, getting that third year guarantee and as you know, you just need bad attempts. Mm-hmm.

Can't hit a home run without that, or single, or double, or triple. So allowing him to have that without the pressure, because if you go eight, now you've got to show and prove. So sometimes it's not all about the pick. And so I like to evaluate that for guys situational. Prior to that, I did the same thing for Marjahn Beauchamp the year before. But you have to be open-minded to it. And you've got to remember, most families, they want to go to highest

because the finances is aligned with it. But yeah, but if we get a little bit for this long and nothing else for this long, then we back to square one. But if we get a little bit for this long and then a lot for this long, we further down the road. And so that's my mentality going into it. And for me, it's not like, I mean, I can't get fired. So I can't fire myself, number one. And then if you don't have the willingness to listen and be open-minded in the strategy that you are, because you're only picking me as your representation because you want to be not just challenged,

because it's not just about that, but you want to be represented holistically. It's not an ego stroke. It's not a, I'm going to beat Johnny on the spot. It's not, I'm going to call you a hundred times a day. Because if I call you a hundred times a day, but you haven't learned nothing, then what I'm, you know, it doesn't make sense. And so I just look at it from a different perspective. And I know you four guys that play in the league would appreciate that today because you because you didn't have that let's just call it what it was you know I'm saying so that was gonna be my look so that was the long months you answer my questions my question. So how do you, if a player is hell bent on that number, like I don't want to go, if I want to go two,

then I want to go two. Damn what you talking about. How do you, like how do you convince that? The way the draft works, if you're slotted at two, then if you drop to six, that team that picking six, that's not a drop to them. They happy to get you, right? But if you slotted at 35,

that team that's picking 18 is not taking you. You understand what I'm saying? So the math is the math. We don't have to sit here and pretend. We're not playing fantasy draft. But that's up to you. If you have, which everyone thinks they have, but the reality of it is very little people do, if you have superstar qualities, now what that number two entails is a different dynamic.

We got to look at market, right? Now some people are market busters very few though right I think you could have put Steph if Steph goes in Minnesota you know yeah maybe they don't win depending on you know go obviously go to say it's hat but his impact on the game how he plays the game kids thinking they can walk outside and go into a gym and throw the ball 40 feet. You're Steph Curry. We cannot deny that. LeBron was able to be a market buster in Cleveland.

He turned Cleveland into Midwest Hollywood. Everyone from Warren Buffett to Jay-Z to Lil Wayne, everybody came to games in Cleveland. Not the way you get to New York or L.A., they came to Cleveland. There's very few guys like that. And so now, but if you have those capabilities, then let's talk about that. Because, okay, so you're telling me if OKC got two, but Chicago got three? If we're talking business, if we're not talking business, then let's not talk it. But I'm just saying, and that's no slight to OKC, it's just facts.

Absolutely. Absolutely, absolutely. Right? And so, my thing is, I'll give you a prime example. This is one for the ages. And this guy I really thank because if it don't be for him and this situation, I probably don't start my own business. But let's just take Michael Kidd Gilchrist for example. He went number two. I mean, yeah, he went two to Charlotte. There's an expectation on him.

Absolutely. In reality, he's a role player at best, right? So my advice, and I'm talking to Mark Jackson at the time who was the coach at Golden State, my number one choice was Golden State. Why? Because if you go back to the season, most of his points were scored in transition. So now if you put him next to Clay and Steph, there's no highlight on the fact that he don't shoot the ball that well

because we're not asking him to shoot it. We're asking him to guard the best player every night, get out in transition, get easy baskets. That's it. Absolutely. Right? My second choice for him was Cleveland. Why? Because he played in high school with Kyrie. Kind of similar to the same thing. It's going to be less pressure on him. But once he goes number two, now, especially coming behind AD, who is on the Olympic team as a rookie, rookie of the year. He got 38 and 12 this night. You know, it's like, but I can't make the decision.

I can't want him to go number two just for me to go into somebody else's living room and say I had the number two pick last year. That means absolutely nothing to me as an agent. It just don't mean nothing right and so but from a longevity perspective where would you know we just never know and by the way now his value is different to that team yep right because that you getting to stop when it matters it's clear stuff coming down hitting the game winning three they going to Western Conference Finals now instead of making 52 maybe That you getting to stop when it matters, Claire Steph coming down, hitting the game, winning three, they going to the Western Conference Finals.

Now instead of making 52, maybe you make 82. Draymond did it. Absolutely. You see what I'm saying? And so I'm looking at it from that perspective, just to give you an example. I got you. Right, so.

Let me follow up with that. In our time, you know. Yeah. 06, 07, 08, 09, put yourself where you are now in that time, you know, yeah, 06, 07, 08, 09, put yourself

where you are now in that time. I wish. You know what I'm saying? I wish. Even the money ain't as big, but you know, the talent was there.

You understand market now. Like, where, like, because for a player like me, then, you know, I had Jeff,

Jeff Swartz, and Who's a good agent. Solid, you know what I'm saying? But it wasn't solid. But as our relationship, like, I know you, and I know you know the players, and how, you know, Brian was able to put you around

guys who can consider you a familiar face, trustworthy, you know what I'm saying? You know the players. So put yourself there. Like, where do you see the success rate with you being able to negotiate certain deals for players who you know have the value but never got that fit? I think I would have been extremely successful, and let me tell you why. Back then, I was able to be with Gil, but I was in Vancouver. I'm with Gilbert in DC, right?

I got Gilbert's car. He ain't even landed yet. They coming back from Detroit. You understand what I'm saying? I did the same thing with Rip. We had this uncanny ability to relate to guys. And Gilbert, trust me. Yo, Rich, you need to code.

Boom. I'll be there at 4 o'clock. Whatever. That's how the relationship was. So now when you fast forward that to a business relationship, and I'm sending you your shot. We're doing this, this, and this, and here's why. That never happened. Because you've got to remember, yo, Sha, we doing this, this, and this, and here's why. That never happened.

Yep. Because you got to remember, back in those days, information was not accessible. Yep. So now information is being withheld because the more information I withhold, the more you feel like you need me. And so that value is being fictitiously created, right? But here's the other thing. It's really no value because you're not welcoming me into your home. You're not welcoming me into circles in which you feel like I'm just an athlete and I'm just a commission for you.

So now I'm tolerated. I'm not really celebrated upon my arrival. It's a different dynamic. I can't do you like that because we cut from the same cloth. It may not be the entire cloth, but out of this cloth, there's going to be a piece that me and you can both share through experience, right? So now, our relationship sits on the foundation of respect and integrity, first and foremost. Can't sugarcoat that. Money don't even matter at that point, right?

And so now, you're going to value that and appreciate that, and you're going to value that and appreciate that, and you're going to do even more for that. Today our business is being so watered down, and these companies are saturating the business because they're playing the numbers game. And so they're feeding on the ego in which the AAU ecosystem has created to where if you play for me, I'm going to pay for your travel, I'm going to get you this iPad, I'm going to get you these shoes, et cetera.

And so now you create this mindset that the more you do for me, you're doing more for me because I'm this guy. So now I equate that to business. Oh, well, if you come with me, I'm only going to charge you 1%. Or I'm going to charge you 2%, or whatever the case may be. Right? This is the dynamic that you're dealing with. But the athlete doesn't say to themselves, well, wait a minute. You're only going to, like,

they're saying, I'm that special that you only want to charge me. Yeah. X, Y, Z. This is what goes into it. So that becomes a thing. So now your nourishment is this ego that you're eating, right? That's what you're eating. There's no substance

in none of that. But yet and still, you go down Rodeo, you walk into a Mary, you walk into Louie, you walk into Chanel, you walk into Van Cleef, and you pay top dollar. So you mean to tell me you will take less for the work practice of somebody that you put in, you would pay less for the work expertise of somebody that you put in your business portfolio in the hands of but pay more for materialistic things that has no value that's going to depreciate as soon as you walk out the door it's backwards this is our business today and it's even worse when you look like me because the one thing that we can't get out in front of or get out of the way of

is the envy of one another. That's embedded. The trust. Right? That's embedded. Everybody that has a guy or two guys may feel like it's going to be 50-50. And y'all know me.

I've been the same person no matter what, up or down. But yet not one ever picks up the phone and says, hey, man, how did you do this? Help me understand. Because the thing is, when people talk about, and we messed the whole thing up. Right. Because it looks easy.

Yeah. Right? Absolutely. You've had guys on your payroll. You've had guys on your payroll. You've had guys on your payroll. And you've had guys on your payroll. Right?

And that's, I'm all for opportunity. Right? I was given an opportunity. But I wasn't given an opportunity out of entitlement. I was given an opportunity out of capabilities placed, behavior patterns consistent across the board being exuded to the point to where, okay, this makes sense. And when given an opportunity, the best value I could bring to the table when I didn't know what I know today

was to find somebody that knew more than I knew to where we didn't make these mistakes. It wasn't like, you know, I was off LeBron's payroll in 2006. He came to the league 0-3-0-4. That means two years of payroll. I'm to the league in 03, 04. That means two years of payroll. I'm making $48,000 a year.

Yeah. I play Bue with you with $48,000 in front of me. Yeah. Say it out. I'm just saying. Say it out. So if you're putting

two and two together, it was never about that, bro. And so when I look at it today and where our business is going, it's tough for the athlete We all have survivors remorse. I got it. Y'all have it and you know But the entitlement of something times or

You know align with the capabilities of something else The worst thing you can do around any one of y'all is take the opportunity for granted by not having the capabilities. Yes, sir. You have to be committed. You have to miss out. I sacrificed a lot.

I missed out a lot. But I didn't really miss out because I lived that life already. Yes, sir. You feel what I'm saying? I've been there already. Y'all all know that. I've been there already. Yes, sir. You feel what I'm saying? I've been there already. Y'all all know that.

I've been there already. So at the end of the day, when I think about my positioning, once again, people come in my office all the time. No one ever thinks or asks a question about how can I have an entry point to positioning? Because you can make money for five years and be broke for the next 35. Hell yeah. Right? But if you're in position, I don't worry about money today. I could lose it all. But I'm in position.

Value. I can get it back. Value. Lost 92. You know what I'm saying? Like, simple math. Ain't one credit. So when I'm trying to, you know, in my position,

and I say this in a way because I'm not really an emotional guy like that, the hurt of it comes from the fact that if this was David Falk, he'd have a line down the street. Man. You feel what I'm saying? Yes, sir. Real shit. When it was Arne, he was powerful, and Arne was a really great agent.

When it's Rich Paul, he's a bully or, oh, you come over here, you could be the next Rich Paul. You could do the same thing. The house and the field. Paul. You could do the same thing. The house and the field. What are we doing? Talk about it. The house and the field. They don't get it. It's over their head, man. What are we doing?

If that's what you want to do, because I'm not going to be for everybody. Did Dante Murray tell you? He just put out a thing on his Instagram. We have a relationship where we hold each other accountable. But just to be for everybody, right? Did John T. Murray tell you? He just put out a thing on his Instagram. We have a relationship where we hold each other accountable. But just to be able to stand in the rain and enjoy the sun together, I'm in the rain with you.

I ain't ducking no smoke. I stood in the fire with Ben Simmons. I stood right there in front of him, by the way. Put my business at risk. But if I can stand with him when his name is called number one, I got to stand with him then. Real shit. Absolutely.

You feel what I'm saying? That's what we signed up for. When I look at when I came in, ain't nobody pulled my coat, not from an agent perspective. Right, right. You know, they didn't. But if you ask anybody today, the young agents today, when they see me and we have a conversation, I'm giving it to them. I'm giving it to them. Straight up.

Because the way I think about it is, man, my daughter may have a child with somebody that, you know, like the seed, it all comes back around. So I'm trying to, you know, if we're going to give it, give it. If we're going to educate, let's educate it, you know. But don't fake it. Don't see me and smile and then behind my back you're telling the family this or you're trying to drive a wedge.

You know, this is what the industry is, and I don't come from that because I come from a world where there's consequences. Our industry don't really have that, so now I'm like the blue elephant, because I don't know, you know, I get discombobulated with that type of, you know, behavior going on. And that's why I started going on the record.

No agent was going on the record. I started going on the record because all this anonymous, man, ain't nothing about anonymous. If you said it, you know what I'm saying? This is what it is. That's sabotage. Ain't no anonymous, what?

That don't read. Anonymous don't read. If you got something to say, say it. That's what happens. And so I'm just bringing a different energy to it. And the thing is, being at the CEO level is unheard of, right? But I got two titles. Yeah, CEO, I get all that. But what I really am,

you know, I'm the chief client services officer. You feel what I'm saying? I'm CCSO. Always. Because if you're going to be an agent, the foundation of that is client services.

I carry the shoes, the gym bag. Yo, you got to shoot around around you. Okay, I'm going They're in the trunk. I don't represent Gil. That's my man. If I'm saying like there's there's there's there's not enough pride in the world for me right, so It's just if you're gonna do it, it's 40. I don't know how many agents it is it's too many right right as it pertains to players and then there's people that define the business card and

there's people that the business card defines them so you know my approach is just different and I understand every every every player and every family is not going to be for because the industry's tainted. So when I get to the meeting, my conversation is not that sexy, right? It may be nourishing, but not sexy. But as a kid, you like Kool-Aid, you don't really like to drink water. But as you get older, you realize how much you need the water. So that's just my mentality, man, and it's not going to change, and it's not going to change from a place of no commission.

You know, we've all, in this industry, you get players, you lose players, but I don't ever feel like I lost a player. I just feel like we wasn't on the same wavelength as it pertains to, because I care. I care about the wires hanging from your TV. I care about what table you have in the restaurant. I care about your business portfolio. I care about how you treat others. That matters.

Yep. Representation. What about the people that surround your players? Like when you sign players, right, like their boys, the ones that live in the house. Are you asking them, you know, like what are you guys here, like what do you guys do, like what's your plan? Yeah, for those that, my guys that, I ask them all the time, but they also ask me. But I'm the first to educate them on the fact that you can't be entitled in this situation, right? So there never should be a time in which the talent, car is not full of gas, washed.

Yes, sir. No dishes in the sink, trash full. You know what I'm saying? Cups laying around. Because through Mood of Pride, there's no reason why you should not have a job if you are in the ecosystem of an athlete. An athlete needs a barber, needs security, need a driver, need a babysitter, you feel what I'm saying? Needs just a handyman.

Now, if you equating that with being rich, well that's a different dynamic. You're not getting rich. There's only one person getting rich in this whole equation here, and that's the player. Right? So, but what is your value? You can't be on the couch when he's getting ready to go to shoot around.

That don't work. And if he's late to shoot around, that's your fault. You feel what I'm saying? Because when the bill come, you're not paying it. I don't watch all y'all pay bills You came by yourself It's 25 meals on here And nobody wouldn't they pocket. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You understand I'm saying I've never done that Whose responsibility is it to explain that though?

Is it the players it responsibility to explain it to his homies or is it his homies responsibility to fucking know that shit? Because it's a no brainer. No, you can't. No one knows. It's a shared conversation, but you can't, like he's saying, you can't expect the homie to know it. You can't expect him to know it. But what you can expect him to do is to think about it, right,

and identify it to the point to where it's saying, okay, look, man, I don't know what you want me to do, but let me understand what my place is, therefore I know it, and I master that. Right. Or you have a situation like, like I had someone of my partners told me about a building

that was available in Dallas, right? Good location. Told me what he wanted to do with it. What'd I do? I go buy the building. You bought it, yeah. Right. What'd they do?

Nothing. Nothing. That's unfortunate. Yeah, right What they do? Nothing nothing But that's what I'm saying, but that's that's that's unfortunate but here's the thing try to put it in situation right but you being You having the capabilities to buy a building and me identifying it don't make me an expert in real estate Absolutely, but what your plan was you what you came to me with a plan right right this is what i want to do with the building oh thought about it presented to great idea whatever let's do it right come to you okay we're going to buy the building this thing right there uh set there. No execution. No execution, you know what I'm saying?

Like, and that's... Well, that's unfortunate. Yeah, very, you know what I'm saying? So, but that's... That's taking your opportunity for granted. To your point, you was imagining. But is that what makes you rare versus other agents that you know the players themselves,

you understand their game, you understand their... Understand their life. Their mannerisms? I know. So, is that what makes you above the others? Because my agent, we used to argue every day. I used to call him just to argue. No shit.

Oh, yeah? What's my favorite move? Oh, you don't know. Click, click. What's my second move? You ain't even watching. Here's the thing, you know. Why do I need to know? I gave you You didn't even watch it. What's my second move? You didn't even watch it. Click. You didn't even watch it. But here's the thing, you know. Why do I need to know?

I gave you the marketing advance. Why do I need to know? I cut everybody in. So why do I need to know? Box score agent. I'm a highlight agent. You know what I'm saying? Now, I know your favorite move.

Watch it a thousand times. You know what I'm saying? I watch it at Arizona too. You understand what I'm saying? But this is what we deal with. But again, we've created this environment in sports where we got a lot of people that aren't okay with just being good or being great at what they were born to do. So now I have to pretend to have all this other capabilities because society has placed the dumb jock tag on athletes. Right?

So now I don't want to be considered a dumb jock. So now I have to put myself in this environment to where I'm doing a lot of fake business. Times, multiply that times, the ego ecosystem placed around me, right? And it's a recipe for disaster. And it's the reason why you see a lot of individual activity as it pertains to infrastructure and collaboration or the lack thereof collaboration. But if Geffen, Spielberg, and Katzenberg can do business, you mean to tell me,

pick three names out of a hat, Kent? Right. Right. But this is the mentality. I watch it. And a guy like LJ, he's going to get the short end of the stick for a number of reasons. I've been a part of five generations of the NBA. But we can all be honest and know that there's always going to be competition amongst the players. That's just how it's always going to be.

So when you have these conversations about who to go and who all this, you're not really going to get the real answer from anybody per se. Now, everybody's opinion, they entice their own opinion. Everybody got their own opinion, and I'm fine with that. But then you got this TV component where there's people on TV saying what they feel, but that's kind of tainted too. Because we all know the difference between Mike, LeBron, and Kobe. Mike and Kobe, they

were, they didn't care if you were their friend or not. Matter of fact, they don't care to be your friend. They don't want to speak to you, period. But what does that do? That makes you want to be their friend even more. LJ is all-inclusive, right? All-inclusive. But familiarity breeds disrespect. Mmm. Let's talk a little bit about that disrespect.

Stephen A. Smith went on the podcast P Show recently. Cat. We're going to get there. Immediately. Top. Immediately. He had this to say about when he told you he had LeBron at number two. I got him as the second best player in the history of basketball.

I got him ahead of Kareem. I got him behind no one but Jordan. And I said to Mr. Churper himself, Chris Paul, I mean Rich Paul, my boy, and I said, you act like that's an insult. This dude is an insult. I said, get the fuck out of my face. What? Get the fuck out of my face.

Exactly what I said to him. I don't want to talk to you no more. You can't talk to me about it. We got you here, so I need to know on the record, did Stephen A really tell you, get the fuck out of my face? You want me to answer that question? I just need to hear Cap one more time. Come on, man.

Anybody in the world know me, he's not going to say that to me, first of all. That doesn't matter to response. Now, if you want to add context to it, because you know, Stephen asked my guy, we have cordial conversation, but I'm not, you know, I can debate all day long. So,

when you talk about there's no such thing as get the fuck out of my face. No. Now, now you can say, oh man, get out of here. Let's just add context for the viewers, right? Okay, fine. Okay, so we move on. The reality of it is this. When you talk about number one versus number two, he's number one for him in the greatest of his time or our time in that perspective. Michael Jordan was my favorite player growing up.

I've had every shoe ever made up to 14 when it started getting a little weird. But at the end of the day, that was me, right? That's all we had to compare to. There was nothing else. Mike transcended the game. When Kobe came, Kobe was a silhouette of Mike, right? That's everything, which is great. But LeBron is the first player to have to deal with a 24-7, 365 news cycle of sports and opinions

from those that's not even capable or carry the expertise to give a valid opinion, right? In addition to, no, I'm not going to really do it how y'all want me to do it. I'm probably going to do it how I decide to do it. We all know that don't go over well, right? And so then you have this, you have this environment in this sports society that's created, right? And so now you have the root against. That's a whole other thing that Mike never had to deal with because his hardest critic was probably Peter Vesey. Yeah.

Straight up. You see what I'm saying? Fucking Peter Vesey. But I just think LeBron's antlers is in platinum and Michael's may be in gold. Why? Antlers is in platinum and Michaels may be in gold Why because when you think about? he had to be compared to Mike

Who you might have to be compared to talk about it right you talk about all he lost This X amount of finals. Well, how many finals you been to to? How hard was it to get there? Extremely. How many finals you been to? Not a goddamn one. What about you? Why didn't you go? Hard. We talking about four guys, three lottery picks, a guy who a rule, the Gilbert Arena's rule was created for him because of him. But then you got to also think about when LeBron came into the league. T-Mac, Paul Pierce, AI, Kobe, you had all these guys.

And we're talking about this kid. We just saw the clip of his teammates. Oh, he's going to have to join the bandwagon. Huh? And D Miles is my man. Mom was a sweetheart. D Miles, you know, welcomed me with open arms. Can't blame him for that.

He don't know what's getting ready to take place. Nobody did. You understand what I'm saying? Yeah. But yet and still, this is what you get. So now when you talk about the GOAT, okay, the man made a decision to go to Miami. Whether you like it or not, every kid today is saying what? I'm taking my talents too. It was just ahead of its time. It's okay for us to say that. He was the first social media athlete of anything. It's okay for us to say it was ahead of its time.

Now, I never think it's an easy way to break up with anybody, especially your wife or, you know, or franchise that drafted you from home. So, you know, maybe not necessarily the best decision optically, but the thought and the intent of it was genuine from the heart. Boys and girls, you know, but you talk about propaganda, so it's a different dynamic, right? Then the narrative of, okay, well, you know, he went to Miami and, you know, they made him this way. What?

Now, what did help was infrastructure, consistency, professionalism, which LeBron's always had. That's no question about that. But I'm saying overall from a culture perspective, right organization organization which was all great, but to create this narrative of He needed somebody and they you know, no, it's a shared need because if I don't go there They don't win what you talking about you get I'm get what I'm saying? Now, that's not coming... If you ask anybody in the Heat organization, at least me, they'll tell you how much they appreciate it, still appreciate it.

You get what I'm saying? But the narrative from the media perspective was something totally, totally different. So when you just get into that GOAT conversation, and I always say this, comparisons are the thief of joy. But Michael's a goat, no question about it. But LJ's a goat as well. He came in, $100 million

contract. Think people like that? There hasn't been one since, and it won't be one. It's a good segue for you, Joe. It won't be one. Because shoe deals ain't what they used to be. But I'm just saying, when you talk about all the teammates around them that got paid, all the coaches that got paid, all the Lance Blanks, Chris Grant, Danny Ferry,

you know, Wes Wilcox was there. He's a GM. You know, when you just really break down the impact, right, how could you say that this man is not a goat? It doesn't even make sense. It's a different conversation. And when you talk about ratings, driving viewership.

Jerseys. We know why you're having a conversation. Sometimes it be topic like, it ain't even worth talking about. Why y'all even talking about this? But it's ratings. We get it. It's a business. I understand that i'm not gonna sit here and and just say what you think

i want to hear which you know we're gonna we're gonna have a conversation about it and i will have a conversation about it so isn't so but isn't infrastructure and everything that you said about miami isn't that like but that's like one of the biggest things for all of us i think like like with that because i feel like even with you being an agent, your infrastructure and your consistency and everything is like the reason why players come and things like that. So that is like one of the biggest things too. Yeah, I think that having the consistency,

Pat's been there forever. Andy Ellsberg, who is unbelievable, been there forever. Adam Simon, now there, been there. Spoh's been there, came through the ranks. That was extremely valuable to a guy like LJ coming there because they want to win. They want to win, and they want to win the right way. But it's not like he had to be babysat or handheld. You know, I'm just like, let's just fix the narrative.

I'm not discrediting because Miami is, if I have a player come out in the draft, if you can choose it, obviously, especially if you know they need, San Antonio's always a great place to go. Miami's always a great place to go. You know, Sam Preston has done a great job in okay I'm talking about in terms of just developing and getting the guy ready for The rest of his career. It's a great starting point in the league for those reasons But I just like to get rid of that

Yeah, that was the turning point That Miami will do you think that was a turning point? It's not for everybody. That Miami move, do you think that was the turning point or do you think when he came back to Cleveland like he'd be like... No, I think 07

taking Eric Snow and Elgowskis and Sasha Pavlovich to the finals was the turning point. That team was trash. I'm not going to say all that. I'm not saying it.

They wasn't trash but they wasn't champions. They wasn't going to the championship. At 22 years of age, he took the team to the finals. Yeah. Right? As the underdog.

Always been the underdog. Every finals he ever played outside of 2012 and maybe 2011 was the underdog. Right? For the most part. So that was a turning point. 29 straight against Detroit was the turning point. Yeah, my bad. Yeah, I forgot that game. that was a turning point. 29 straight against Detroit was the turning point. Yeah, my bad. Yeah, I forgot that game.

That was a turning point. And what he did was, now when he go back to Cleveland, they have to listen. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Let's talk about that. They have to listen now. You know what I'm saying?

Because he went there and won. So now the team with what it was, how they put the team together in Miami. Mm-hmm. He come to Cleveland now. He understands what it takes to win. I need this guy, what they do. Yeah.

I need this guy. I need this. But why? But why did that happen, though? It's winning because it works. In addition to, he on the one-year deal. Yeah, so. See? Now you got allyear deal. Yeah, so. See?

Now you got all of them, son, so. Well, you got flexibility. I can leave this bitch anytime. The former. Yeah, he's looking at it. God damn it, I left once, now I got damn it. Try me if you want to. Try me this bitch if you want to.

When you said nobody knew LeBron was coming, my dad did. I remember I got a call. He said, what you doing? I said, I just finished working out He said well you might as well get back in the gym There's a kid in high school by the name of LeBron James like a hurricane coming get ready Yeah He's called I guess he watched the Oak Hill. Oh, yeah, the Oak Hill one. Yeah, he watched the game.

He said, yeah, there's a hurricane coming. You might want to get back in that gym. But segue into your shoe deals. Just a different time now. For sure. Hold on, before you get there, I got a big question, though. The big question is, why LA? After going back to Cleveland, doing what y'all did in Cleveland,

what prompted the move to LA at the time where LA was really struggling, right? Trying to get back on the map. I see it as more of a business move, but also I think that was a turning point in his legacy to take it over the top. Um, kind of like what you said, you know, because in our conversation it was, you know, if anybody know him, he gets bored fast, right? And so my conversation was looking at the talent. At the time, they had Jesse had done a great job in the draft,

Kuz, Brandon Ingram, Zoe, Josh Hart. The talent was young but was there. If you're going to leave Cleveland, where are you going? I thought he was going to leave Cleveland, where are you going? Right? I thought he was going to New York. At that time, it didn't make sense. But one and the same, I understand why you say that. You got a family component, right? Band ain't moving nowhere.

No matter where you go, I'm going to L.A, so it don't matter to me, wherever you go. And so now, it's just a matter of who climbs the mountaintop to come back down and have to climb the mountaintop again. Now obviously, if you go here and win, you've been in three different destinations and you won three different places. No matter how many times you've been, you won. Different conversation. Different conversation. Yeah. destinations and you won three different places no matter how many times you've been you won different conversations so now we have you have to go here with a respect for the organization the legacy and all the championships and the players whether they were key guys or not there's a fraternity that comes with that and at the same time a will and a want and a drive to get back up this mountain

Yeah, you know so when they did it in 2020 and again You try to discredit the bubble you not discrediting the 99 Spurs Low low key. I do We forgot about that do. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey.

Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey.

Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Lowkey. Like graphs, what are we talking about? Different atmosphere though different atmosphere. Yeah, but help the team but here's that help the other team that helped that help

I mean, I mean, it's no for no fans. Don't see a little Wayne on the little thing. Right? I might get cheered But you know what? No, Rihanna. What have fans ever done for you? Fair bring it Make that it make you know, yeah, but I don't think that, I don't think that, wait. I understand that a Tuesday night against Detroit. For all the marbles, I don't understand that. It's different when Ron coming down dunking in the fans and he doing that. And you see Denzel out there.

That feel different. So he can't turn your fans. Huh? He can't turn your fans. You get the cheer. There's no fans. There's no fans. You're hearing a loud. Ron can't turn your fan base like he would do in an arena

But also I can't base came you can't say you ain't gonna turn away Hey, but our fan base can't make him miss free throws cuz we loud and we on his ass all night But you know taking that not even focusing on that right if Steph wins in the bubble. They discredit. Yeah, you got no no They don't we still saying the same thing the bubble ring because it's a bubble ring because it's circumstantial But you're one but the media about the time about the guys the mass is there Most people listen to that they still get the same thing. I mean yeah outside it outside of LeBron and Steph Yes, they they just gonna be like, okay you They're the only two that you going to get slandered.

For sure. Yeah, for sure. Because it's different for them. I'm just saying, you know, no matter who would have won it, I just felt like under those, I was in the bubble. So under those circumstances, you getting up, you testing every day, you know, you haven't seen your family in 90 days, if you made it that far. And to me it was harder because when you look at the two teams that went, we know what the heat culture brings, right?

And then you had to have leadership between Rondo, LeBron, AD. They had a very adult team once they got in there for the most part to be able to lock in and got to remember the distraction that happened in the bubble when they stopped playing you know you get what i'm saying so to me it's it was just as difficult as any one of them because i mean when you when you go over all the series, we've seen some series that home court or no home court is 97 to 58 at the end of three. Like...

Shit, end of three. But you have said something key, though. Adult team. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. That team. That's what I'm saying. It's like, you know, because everybody, whoever was favored to win it...

Clippers. Clippers had a vet team. No, listen. I said it then. If Clippers. Clippers had a vet team. No, listen. I said it then. If Clippers are going to win a championship, it has to be in the bubble because if they play the Lakers, the Lakers can't turn that home crowd. So this is even floor. So if they're going to win, this is the time they can win.

Other than that, they'll never win a championship again. So let's talk about just this new CBA. And from a player representative perspective, what are some of the things that concern you talk about just this new CBA. And from a player representative perspective, what are some of the things that concern you the most about the new CBA? How do players actually feel about it? For the players that's actually educated on it, I mean, first of all,

the CBA is something that you have to be brought up to speed on on a daily. You know, it's just a very complex thing. I would say for me, just the state of the league and where it's going, you're starting to see again the half and the half-nots. You're not going to see this three max deals to one guy going forward. You're going to really have to play at an elite level because the numbers are so high. You've seen less and less players this summer

make an annual $20 million a year. You've seen the mid-level get split in two now and not giving it to just one, right? Unless you're the $20 million player that they're getting for 12. You feel what I'm saying? And so I just think that you see a lot of guys working on their game,

but they better start working on their approach. They better start working on their professionalism, you know because when the shit get bigger than the cat they get rid of the cat faster than ever before explain the approach though like because a lot of players it was explained to me play the game shot play the game but then i asked what the fuck is the game well you know the game no But then I ask, what the fuck is the game? Well, you know, the game. No, I don't. Explain the game. What's the, because a lot of guys want to be the professional, come to the arena and know what to say, know how to do it, know how to carry yourself,

but haven't been taught what that approach particularly is. Well, I can tell you, because I told KJ to do the opposite of what I did. Yeah. Do the opposite of what I did. You know what I'm saying? I was professional. In that matter, what you just said, I show up on time. I speak to everybody.

I show up and do my job. You thought that was enough. No, no, no. That's just who I was. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But I realized post-career, now hitting it, what I started seeing when I got older and moved on to other organizations and how things were portrayed.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So me telling him exactly what to do, like be professional in these ways, do these things, don't do these. I was able to do that because I didn't do that. Explain it with the game. Yeah, absolutely. You know what I'm saying? Me telling them those things.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I think. Because I was a vet in it. And you've been around enough to be able to relay that. You know what I'm saying? Because you've been around vets. For sure. You've been in these situations to be able to tell a young guy exactly that.

I think the hardest thing, though, you've got to remember, life in the NBA is a pyramid, right? And so, when you're in the sixth grade, you're down here. Everybody good, right? But as you keep going, you get to that 450, then within that 450, you get to that 150, it's just a different dynamic. But that doesn't take away the habits

you've built along the way, right? Psychologically, how you feel, because everybody in the NBA was the best player on their high school team at some point, or their AAU team at some point. That never goes away, right? Just like if I was a McDonald's All-American and I was 12 under my draft,

I always feel like I was 12 and should have went 12, even though if I went 38, somebody was tripping. You feel what I'm saying? Yep. And so you carry that energy into the organization. But you have to be able to... The difference in today's league, you have to be able to identify your role sooner than ever before. Yes. Right?

You don't get three years to figure it out or four years to figure it out. You need to be understood. Coming out of year one, you have to know what my role is and what I need to be doing, what I'm working on this summer, where I'm working on it at, right? And going into year two, applying that. Because you may not even get a year three if you don't and so when you when I talk about the approach you know we see a lot of guys that's probably not on rosters it's not because of your talent because GM's are asking themselves today okay if I sign this guy what does that mean for the culture of my locker room?

Locker room guys. Period. No matter who you've been, that's the conversation right now. And if there's no pressure coming from ownership to sign you, then they don't need to do that. Because the one thing I don't want to do is, I'm not coming to work for you to make my job hard. When it don't have to be.

But on the flip side, if you're in year 12 and yeah, I still got a little talent left in the tank, but I see where it's going, right at that point, I got to switch my game. I got to start becoming more of a energy provider, educating guys, you know, being that type of added value. So now when I'm a energy provider, educating guys, being that type of added value. So now when I'm a third guy in my position, but they paying me 3.1, 2.8, whatever it is, to be on the roster, I'm bringing value. Jared Delly mastered it.

Team asset. Right? He mastered it. Which then led to him getting a coach's gig and he's probably going to be a head coach. But going back to that key word, ego.

Can I put my ego to the side to be a professional in my approach to allow myself to be positioned here and going forward. Everybody want their name in lights.

We at Gil's Arena. Everybody want their name in lights. But you can't have it both ways. And so it don't matter what you're doing in the summer runs. It don't matter how much weight you losing. That stuff don't matter because the opportunity is not going to be there.

I don't care who represents you. It's not going to be there. Right? Now, a couple years ago, I was able. Tristan just got on the Lakers this year. But you got to remember, you can't find a teammate or a GM that say Tristan was a bad teammate or bad, you know, you can't find him in the league. We can't talk about others.

Just talk about you can't find him in the league. Now, on top of that, we bring some bigs in, and he's in tip-top shape. Yep. So now, oh, that's three boxes checked. Yeah, approach. Right. Readiness. So now, let's go check with the top dogs and see, hey, does this make sense?

Of course, we was at the workout too. Everybody think, I'm not going to be in his representation. I'm not going to just take the credit for that because it was, it could be in any team, but he was prepared for the opportunity right you get what i'm saying and so i think that guys got to start having more of that sooner rather than later so it's the entitlement that kills us because like just like what he was just saying like he knew things now that we didn't know them because we were entitled to the position based on where we were drafted how we felt coming in like college i came off the championship he number one pick you know because we were entitled to the position based on where we were drafted,

how we felt coming in, like college. I came off a championship. He's the number one pick. You know, he had to work for his. So his entitlement was I'm working harder than everybody else. And me, it's like I'm a champion. Like then the approach has got to be different because they're not looking at us from a what you've done in the past prediction it's like now what can you how much of an asset can you fit our current infrastructure

and our future infrastructure right and so what g had, he was the underdog. So when he became the top dog, that underdog was his foundation. It never left. Right. So his, it was, because, you know, it's like being broke. If you grew up poor and you get some money, no matter, you may not have as much as I used to have, but I ain't about to, I'm not going back. You feel what I'm saying? Like, that's the mentality you're going to carry.

And so for all my guys, we really have these conversations. And again, it's just going to be harder to get that max deal three times in a row consistently. You know, it's tough. You're going to have to really play at that level. Now, you're going to get the first one, second one, but that third one, and even that second one. But again, you may not be making 76, but maybe you're making 40.

Still a lot of money. You know what I'm saying? But again, it's the ego. And that word max, see, I think that we should remove that word. Because that drives them for the entitlement. Yeah. And not only that, it also causes friction amongst every other thing. Because now, not only you're entitled around the organization,

you feel like I should be on the same wavelength as somebody else because we're max players. That's just like in the hood. You got a Cutlass, I got a Cutlass. They both on Dayton's. We're the same. Right. No, we're not.

We're not the same, right? You live with your mom, I got a house. You know what I'm saying? But that's the comparison. Those shits even got levels? That's the? But that's the comparison. That's the dynamic. That's the dynamic. You know, that's what you deal with.

So it's hard to really educate, man. It really is. But you know, like, I see it. I got a stock room of film on all this stuff. But there's very few people that ask about it. Yeah. I got to... But I don't mean to cut you off,

but that's why, like, when KJ came out, because that's the only thing I have to reference in this conversation, right? The guys looked at him like, like, how old are you again? Like, he like,

tell him, like, nah, he older than that, bro. Like, he messing about the other day, like, because he care him because he's been around me and been around in this situation and we've had these conversations that

Rich has I'm saying with these guys and you had a conversation yeah yeah you know I'm saying yeah and then just because I'm it's a daily thing you know I'm saying it ain't a I'm in town let's go to dinner I ain't in town let's go to dinner dinner. Especially for him. Yeah. Because, again, and me and you had the conversation. Absolutely. You came to me at the game. Yeah. And out of my respect for Kenyon, I'm like, well, I don't want to be put in a position where if he come with me, now there's an expectation for him to go a certain place,

and then it ruins our relationship. Yeah. Right? Because we know, and so I was like like I didn't want to do that but watching him watching him play again he's one of those guys to where he can bring so much value to a team he don't even have to score the ball all right you don't even have to score the ball you get I'm saying and so as long as he understand that and can get in the right crack he can he squeeze a 12-year career out, you know, and be just fine. Yeah, because he's going to do all the other stuff.

And where the money's going, shit, probably make damn near as much as you made. Don't make more. You know, like that's just how it is. The game has evolved. I was taught an easier way from the owner. He said A pole and he said this is my this is my wallet Give me a reason to sign you this check. Hmm

So when you think about it like that That's attitude Professionalism work ethic. Oh, give me a reason to write this check. Now, when you think about talking back to the coach, coming late, that keeps the checkbook closed. So I tell every player, I tell my son all the time, give me a reason to give you this money. It's my money. You asking, you saying this is what I'm worth.

No, you're worth what I write. You're worth what I write. If you're worth 200 and I write 200, you're saying this is what I'm worth. No, you're worth what I write Yeah, you're worth what I write if if you work 200 and I write 200 you're worth 200 If you say I want 200 I give you 150 and you take it you're worth 150 Give me a reason To write this check and that's how I tell every player and to approach anything and the thing about it is Especially when the talent starts to dwindle. See, when the talent is there, they tolerate all that.

But what you don't realize, too, is I'm the guy on this team. There's an infrastructure. Based upon how I conduct myself on this team when I'm the man will have a direct correlation to what opportunities I get when I'm not the man because the assistant GM the video coordinator whomever on this team when I was the man treating people a certain way acting out coming late etc they're now the GM, the president, somewhere else. So now when my talent has dwindled, still there a little bit, but I'm not as sought after,

but I'm still able to play. But they've seen me in an environment and in an element that's not conducive to how they want their organizations to run, and this is their first opportunity. They don't have the ability, like a Pat Riley or a Pop, to be able to say, no, this is who I want and deal with it, because they ain't going nowhere. Their job's secure. They don't have that. So I'm not going to take a chance on you, because I know you. I've seen you no matter what. I've seen you when it

mattered most. You get what I'm saying? And guys don't understand that. And that's what we gotta try to get them to understand years three to five. You know, like, come on bro, because now in year nine, 10, 11, it comes back around. The NBA is just a, some new guys in, but for the most part, it's not. It's the same guys.

You know, pretty much. They might not be here no more and be here. They go over here and they're here and they go back down and back up. You know, that's how it goes. Same thing with coaches as well. Now in free agency, they pick up the phone. Hey man, you had such and such. How was it? Shh, bro.

You ain't got to say it, man. Okay, cool. It's that type of environment. You know what I'm saying? It's that type of environment. So at what point does the player stop trying to prove himself and accept the role that is being identified? Because that's the toughest part for a player. It's individual. Because you're trying to prove that you're a good player, you're trying to prove that

you deserve that thing or you stand next to this guy over here Well, you can't use individual you can't yeah, it's I think it's it's individual base It's based upon every every scenario is different as a time frame though like year six year seven if you can last ten At what who am I on the pecking order? If you use second you ain't the top you ain't the top Go in and then you see this year one. You ain't the top guy. Well, in that case, then it's year one. You used to be the top guy. You used to be the top guy.

And then it's like you move down, but you're still trying to prove that you deserve something. I think you get a five-year window max of being the top guy. And within that five years, it's like playing a video game. If I beat this board, I get two more years of being, like, you know, you have to continue to show and prove that you're worthy of being that top guy. Once you know that that's not there, then, you know, when we was kids, you got to find somewhere to sleep. You find your spot, lay down. You know, that's what you have to do. So the free agents that come into the situation, they're looking at, you know, where do I fall in with this team,

like a John Wall, Russell Westbrook. These are guys who have been guys, but then it's like you come into these situations. I don't want to put Mello in that situation, but it's kind of like when... If the guy has humbled himself. If they're humbled, yeah. I mean, that's not easy.

But if the guy has humbled, and that they're humbled, yeah. I mean, that's not easy. But if the guy has humbled, and that's why conversations are necessary to have. Yeah, conversations. And it's all situational. And if the guy has humbled himself, but the opportunity doesn't present him to show that I'm humbled.

Right, it creates that perception. No, just take a Melo, for instance. Melo was given opportunity to show you that i'm humbled in this manner i appreciate the opportunity to come out and hoop you know what i'm saying after being out after being out you know what i'm saying that was the humbling of it you know what i'm saying and i think that's like because they used the interview against him and he was like they said i'm gonna to come off the bench. So it's that. Why would I want that? But then it's like, then he don't get a job.

It's like, see, that's why. Now he get to Portland, that's like... The perception. But I was so glad Melo did get the second number because I know all guys want to go out on their own dime. But again, I think guys just get a bad rap

because in Russ's case, I'm there. We all know the type of person Russ is. Heart big as his room. So you play on this team, and it is what it is. The wins and losses creates these different things, but that's not necessarily what's reality. Right. The perception.

Yeah, because the man took it back. I go come off the bench, he could've easily been like, nah, fuck that. Yeah, of course. I'm not MVP, I'm this, I'm that, but this is, okay, this is what y'all asking of me. Yeah, of course. All right, cool, but I'm still hooping,

and I know what it is. Yeah, well, you can't stop me from being me on the floor. Absolutely, so when I'm out there, I'm out there. That's what I'm gonna do. My drive. So when I'm out there, I'm out there. That's what I'm going to do. My determination. Absolutely. We all got to pay homage to somebody's determination. Absolutely. And drive, especially after making a gazillion.

It ain't about the money. Not at all. I love this game. And that's admirable. Yeah, absolutely. Let's talk about just the state of shoe deals going around the league. You mentioned LeBron earlier coming in with that 100 mil. Not quite seeing as much of that nowadays.

So where do you think shoe deals are headed for big time athletes moving forward? Well, the shoe business has changed. And again, this is going back to ego, right? We all grow up, we want our own shoe. You had it, right? But what's the sense of me having my own shoe if I can't build a business from it?

You feel what I'm saying? Let's not get confused. The signature shoe comes or should come with the signature business, right? Because that's why contracts is done the way they're done.

That's why you get royalties, so on and so forth. If we don't have that, now we're going back to the ego. Yeah. So now, I don't want a signature shoe today. You couldn't pay me to have a signature shoe today

because kids today, they don't necessarily have what we had. There was a loyalty to a brand and you had that. Kids today don't necessarily have what we had. There was a loyalty to a brand, and you had to. Kids today don't have to have that. They wear slides. They wear Crocs. They wear Uggs.

They wear anything they want to wear. The basketball shoe is no longer the lifestyle shoe. The lifestyle shoe is the lifestyle shoe. The lifestyle shoe is the lifestyle shoe. When we were coming up, we wore the basketball shoe skating, we wore it to dinner, to church, we played in it, had to have it on at school, and this whole idea of having, not being accessible, that was not true. The reason why we wanted that specific shoe

is because 90% of the school had it. You know, now it's 9% of the school has it. So when you think about that, where does that leave the business? Most shoes sell based upon price point today. Right? And kids are wearing them in the game. When you see them off the court, they're in their hand. They don't have them on. So now what does that do to the business?

Nobody's really building a signature shoe business that hasn't already built it. Right? There's some that's already been built. They're in the system. It is what it is. And the way it works with retailers, we all know, if you want this song, you got to play this song too. You know, that's how it goes. And so we're not seeing as agents, we're not seeing those. It used to be if I got a top five pick, me, if I got a top five pick, early on in the career, that person was getting well over a million, sometimes two million dollars a year, depends.

This is early 2000, like, you know, 07, 08, 09. Then when you got into 17, 16, you know, it changed a little bit. The number one pick, yeah, he getting about five million, but then it dropped, right, to 700,000, a million. But then it dropped, right, to $700,000, a million. But now it's dropped even further, right? And the shoe companies also, the basketball shoe deals come from a sports marketing budget. It doesn't just, but now, if I'm a brand,

I don't have to wait for Gilbert to play Tuesday night on TNT. I can give it to Josiah because you're on your social media all day, every day. Right? That's the difference between Lethal Shooter having a deal and a player coming out in the draft at 25 having a merch bonus deal. The money's just not there. And nor do they want it to be because you got to deal with everybody from, you know,

the Jack Harlow's and Billie Eilish and Travis Scott. You know, it's just a different time now. And so when you're going into this, a lot of shoe deals that's being announced, it's a lot of fluff, a lot of shoe deals that's being announced, it's a lot of fluff, a lot of yeast on those deals.

Because shoe deals are paid per play, by the way. You get prorated. Oh, per game? It says you have to play a minimum of this amount of games. If you play under that, there's a proration that starts.

If you miss a full season, it's not like the NBA. It's not like... It ain't guaranteed. You understand what I'm saying? So people hear these so-called lifetime deals. Like what are... Cap.

Lifetime deals meaning you still got to... I'm saying you got to bring it. You got to bring it forever. They're going to send you merch forever. There's going to be very few people that get a lifetime deal. And if they did, they've had an existing business at that brand for 12, 13, 14, 15 years and beyond. You know, Ken Griffey is never announced. He has a lifetime.

He's lifetime. Derek Jeter? That logo. GP? I don't know. I mean, don't. That logo. That Griffey logo. Some, from an ambassador perspective,

where we're just making sure that you're in the system, where we're giving you product. Some actually still getting the royalty, still getting the check. You know, there's... You know, I don't know people's business, but I'm just telling you... They're still getting the check.

That's two different situations. BoJacket type shit. Exactly. But, you know, it's two different situations Okay, I'm back. I talked about player shoot. Did not talk about about your shoe. Did we see with the clutch? See with the fit. Yeah From my studio, but yeah, but I'm just saying so let's talk to me about clutch athletics and what you got going on there And then also the shoe deals what well, yeah, so, you know, if anybody know me, my brain's always racing and having the ability to build a brand that is globally recognized.

That's why I never named it Rich Paul Sports, you know, because I didn't want to make it about me. I wanted to be able to be creative and felt like there was an opportunity, there was a white space in the market for bringing an apparel business, apparel sports performance, apparel line with style that is affordable, accessible, cool, and back into the community. Because when we grew up, you can get the best stuff at the corner, right? Now you've got to go through all these hoops to get things. And so that's what really gave me the original idea, totally separate from the representation business. They don't cross. And so I can go out and I can sign if the other representation can get past the

name and really do the best deal for their client. I can sign I have a checkbook I can sign players that's not even With the representation side of my business, which is great, but that's gonna take Out the way but but if you're doing what's best for your client it is what it is So so what you have you went out the soul, but if you're doing what's best for your client, it is what it is. So would you approach somebody, or would they have to come to you? Oh, well, yeah. Would they have to come to you with it?

No, I would approach it. I mean, a check is a check. If I can give a better opportunity, you got to decide, and your client has to decide what's best for them. I have yet to do it, but that's coming. You haven't found a player that it. Yeah. But, you know, that's coming. You haven't found a player that's worthy yet?

Yeah, but ultimately, though, you don't necessarily need the player either. That's what I'm saying. The difference is when you think of the name, you automatically think of the world's best athletes anyway. True. And I'm going back into the community, and I partnered with New Balance

because I felt like, you know, having that partner and being able to press a button and be global tomorrow with New Balance because I felt like having that partner and being able to press a button and be global tomorrow based upon their database and manufacturing distribution and just their expertise in having this existing brand since 1972, I felt like the growth opportunity with New Balance was great to have.

So that's been great. We're in 100 stores. We're going to another 120 stores next year, which is great. And then prior to that, I just felt like, you know, just something cool to do was to have a CEO have a shoe. Why can't I have a shoe? You know, CEOs like to be cool. I'm not wearing a suit to work every day.

You know, and so I didn't expect it to go the way it went, though. You know, last, I think a year and a half ago, we did 10,000 pairs. It sold out in 10 minutes. This last capsule I did around Forever Yours, I did the creative, came up with the color scheme, the commercial, all that whole idea. I love that on a basketball.

Just playing on the love for the game, but also it idea, the love letter on the basketball. Just playing on the love for the game, but also it could be the love for her. Yeah. You know, and... And there's more people that look like you than us. I'm saying there's more people like us that would be you than us. And I just think, you know,

style and simplicity is the way to go right now. You know, people aren't really... You're not really trying to... You don't care about pumping it up or having a big airbag on the bottom of your shoe and dunking, you know, at Starbucks. You're just trying to really get out, go to Whole Foods, look cool and be done with it. So that's just, you know, this whole fashion thing and just when you talk about brands and things like that, it goes in into a circle but I wanted to

go to 13 to 30 guys you got it you don't know Georgia but you'll get to know her all right but yeah but that's that's that's been great and then you know just continuing to just evolve man like you know I oftentimes, like we talked about this earlier with the athlete, I understand who I am, right? And I understand what my capabilities are and my foundation. I know there's this idea of, oh, well, Rich wants to leave

and I do not want to own a team. I don't plan on owning a team, don't want to own a team. If LeBron buys a team, I do own a team, which is great, you know what I'm saying? It's all love. The access, all the stuff, the perks of ownership, I'm pretty sure I will have if he was able to get a team,

or if any of my friends get a team, I'm pretty sure I will have that. But as far as me and my position, I love what I do. You know, could it be a thankless job some days? Yeah, but that's anything in life, right? You're going to have the ups and downs of it. But the core and my excitement for helping guys grow is what my focus is today, not just on the court but also off the court.

I've been through it all, you know, as a kid, my adult life, and then obviously my professional life. And so being able to give that back is is is my example of passing out turkeys and stuff like that that's my paying forward you know but it's coming from a place of you know it's there's some substance there there's integrity there and so I've been excited about that but I'm not stopping you know obviously that's that's one two three things but ultimately I don't want to feel boxed in but I'm also keeping the main thing the main thing so you know so one last question so are you the

greatest NBA agent ever or just a agent ever. I respect it. Like, you know, I remember seeing you in the airport with Johnny Flynn. He was in Sacramento. Yeah, in Sacramento. And I said that about Ricky Rubio. Remember, he was just like, ah. Like, you know, ah, they're going to get you on that one. But just seeing you, like, since then. Like, you know, you've always been with your players.

I've always heard things about you knocking on guys' doors, getting them up early, trying to get them to, you know, their workouts or things like that. Like you said, carrying a bag and things like that. But I just respect the steps, the steps that you took, you know, where you came from and where you are now. And like you said, it's envy for a lot of us, like, because a lot of us have been taught and we're taught to be against each other and things like that. So to me, I respect it. No, I agree with that. But it also comes from a place of care, right? I just felt like when a lot of guys was coming up and still today, we don't throw this word family around in our internal office because it's cliche and it's fake.

We know that amongst others. But like you said, I don't have to represent you to give you the game or to pull you to the side about it. And I remember you coming out of the stands because you didn't know if you was going where you was going. You feel what I'm saying? But I was also happy for you Mm-hmm. I'm saying because you you earned that but again

It's it's one of those things where I've been around the game so long and I've seen So many people come and go and we used to get laughed at you know There were several players guys that laughed at myself and Maverick about our approach to things or saying that we were riding somebody's jock or whatever the case may be. It wasn't that. We're just trying to present ourselves the right way, but also represent somebody who's given us an opportunity and a platform the right way. Because one thing about the athlete, if you're a brother, a sister, a cousin, a friend,

whatever the case may be, anybody outside of mom and dad, you're not entitled to anything. Right? Anything. But what you should be wanting and willing to do is everything to make and allow the player and the talent to only have to focus on their job. That's it. And there's no pride that comes with that. If that means going to pick up the fries with sauce, hopefully you're not doing that because you're on a diet type. But whatever that means, you should be willing to do

that and it's on the athlete to not treat them as if they are below them you know below them right and really show appreciation for the little things that people do for you to make your life that much easier This spills over to your better half and so on so forth because it ain't nothing wrong with you Not working if you're making my life easier To go out and do my job to the best of my ability I'm saying but if I have to worry about ten other things And I got to beat the Bucks on Tuesday night, that's just too hard of a job. I can't do it.

You understand what I'm saying? So I always had that approach. And from the day I got an opportunity in 2003, there was no... The conversation that was had with me is, there's no real job for you. there's no real job for you. There's no real position for you. I don't know when it's going to be one for you. But all I know is since you've been around me, you kept it real. I've learned a lot.

And I got to have you around me. It was up to me to create value for myself. Right? me to create value for myself. From that point on, I was in a rush to get off the payroll because I don't come from that. Anybody know me? No, I don't come from that. You said it took you two years, right? It took me two years. I never stood at the mall to get jeans or have to wait for somebody else to get something.

If Gil bought a Maybach, I bought one too. You know what I'm saying? That was my mentality. But I also understood there's a role to play. And my dad, because I saw some of your questions, but my dad instilled that in me. Always have to lead with respect for others yeah right always have to do things with integrity and with moral principle because the principle things have left the way our league is changing is the

you know there's no more G code the G code is gone oh It's just gone. And I think that it's ultimately going to be to our demise because where's the guardrails, right? When the technology came and there was no more people on the corner, what the news said the corner was and what it was for me was two different things my corner was Harvard was Penn was Michigan whatever they thought they corner was what it was and don't get me wrong there's things that went wrong and there's things that went right but I learned so much because that guy who looks like a wine head today he had a family he had a Cadillac hanging out the driveway you know he had a job at Ford he lost it but that's to my value learning his experience and what he did right and wrong and adding that to my going forward in life saved my life in a lot of ways helped me make better decisions in a lot of

ways it didn't come from professors you know snar doogle class at whatever It didn't come from professors, you know, snar-doodle class at whatever. It didn't come from that. You understand what I'm saying? So when you read the book, Lucky Me, it's not a puff piece. It's not a look at what I did. I'm not into look at what I did, right? Because I've been doing for a long time.

And when you practice doing things the right way, they become routine. I don't have to show that. You get what I become routine. I don't have to show that. You get what I'm saying? I don't have to tell that. That just comes with the energy. And so I carry a different flag as an agent. And I want to be able to say to the next guy, man, I like your style.

I like how you're doing it. And I want him to be able to say to me, man, I appreciate you because when it was on you to give it, you actually gave it. And I'm not trying to necessarily, I don't see nobody as competition. I really don't. I don't. And I say that, and I'm not going to use the word humble.

I say that graciously. I say that with a lot of grace because I just feel like we're on two different wavelengths. If a player's signing with me, it's not as much as about a contract. It's also about him understanding that I got somebody that I can lock in with that's bringing value all the time. And a friend and a confidant. You get what I'm saying? And it's not just about a financial gain. If I work, you work, I want to be paid.

Why shouldn't I want to be paid? You know, when I first started my company, everyone tried to act like somebody owned a piece of my business. You know, that's all discouragement. But they didn't say it to Arne. They didn't say it to David. You feel what I'm saying? They didn't say it to Jeff. They didn't say it to Arne. They didn't say it to David. You feel what I'm saying? They didn't say it to Jeff.

They didn't say it to those guys. Right? But we all know what takes place in business. In business, you need somebody to help you down the road. This DIY kit that these guys got out, it ain't happening. I don't care how many camera setups you got following you around to the fashion shows and all that. It don't matter, right? It's appeasing you.

It's you, you know, digesting your own ego. But there's no compounding there, right? The guys that's really getting to it, they're compounding wealth. And that's, but we, as young black men, we've always thought to conquer, right? And when you think about conquering, it always comes with a very cannibalistic approach, right?

And if I have a cannibalistic approach, then how can we collaborate? We can't. And if we can't collaborate, then how are we ever gonna build a community? We're not. We're not. So,

this is the game that's being played. Right? Arch rivals. I got something for you, though. Mm-hmm. Flowers. Yeah. Since 03, 04, I've seen you come through. The hustle, perseverance.

Really, never, ever really piggybacking off of what everyone thinks got you here i seen and had the conversations with you and maverick right when i was in college the things that kind of shaped me to be a professional what to wear how to wear what to say how to say you know that's why i asked you the question about what you would do back then if you was an agent because someone like me would have needed this type of energy. So I wanted to give you your flowers and understanding that where you are now is never going to be overlooked

from somebody who watched it happen. You know what I'm saying? To sit back and see you and Brian, you know, year 20, be like, God damn, I know them. Right, I appreciate that. I've seen that. I watched it, you know what 20 be like god damn i know them right i've seen that yeah i watched it you know i'm saying so you know regardless of how people feel about you know him you maverick the grind the hustle i've seen it i've had the conversations with y'all and i've seen that it is it was manifested it was all hard work you know no, and I just want to show the appreciation

and that it's never going to go overlooked. I appreciate that. And when you went opposite from where we was at, I didn't switch up. Well, for sure. Me and your relationship was the same. For sure. You know? And that's how it should be.

No doubt. So this was fun, man. I got to come back, Gil. I got you. I got to invite you back. I did bring some product. We got it. I brought some product for you.

Okay, great. I like product. I ain't got no product. I ain't got no product. Let's wrap this thing up, man. We'll bring the product in. But Rich, we appreciate you taking the time, pulling up. You got your book, Lucky Me, coming out this fall. Yeah, man, October 10th.

Oh, October 10th, Lucky Me coming out, hitting the shelves. But a little advice for you, if you're going to stake out a neighborhood for Gil's son, if the ball head security guard is working up front, that nigga's a hater. I'm just letting you know right now, he's going to jam you up. And all those security guards that watch the show that aren't him Don't show this nigga the clip because he's a major hater. But why we don't why don't get no glasses? Yo, looking at that screen with again barely see the I'll be like homie They make

All the other words are cool the black dude cool is cool. Always up, up, love. Just the bald head dude with the squinty, like, niggas. The same nigga. He's my favorite. I'm hating on the squinty. Are you growing too? He won't fuck with me, bro. He's like, he knows my name.

The crown. Go ahead. Marish, we appreciate you pulling up, man. I can say lucky me in stores October 10th. This has been another episode of Gil Garena. We out. Change the game. Put that respect in his name. Look, with the honor called for greatness, the chosen few, another episode of Gilgarina. We out.