Gil's Arena - Stephen A Smith Makes A SURPRISE Return To Gil's Arena

Episode Date: August 15, 2025

Stephen A Smith Makes A SURPRISE Return To Gil's Arena as the host of ESPN's First Take & King of Sports Media shocks Gilbert Arenas & The Gil's Arena Crew with a surprise appearance during their summer hiatus. Stephen A gets real on his relationship with LeBron James following their hostile feud sparked by SAS's Gil's Arena Debut and explains why he will never speak to the Los Angeles Lakers' superstar ever again. He also breaks down why LeBron should feel disrespected by the Lakers after their summer of hyping up Luka Doncic before calling out Gilbert Arenas on his recent arrest. Next, Stephen A breaks down what's coming up in his career as the media mogul continues to grow his brand and challenges the Gil's Arena Crew in the GOAT Debate as he explains why LeBron James & Kobe Bryant will never be Michael Jordan. Finally, they discuss recent events taking over the sports world, whipping around the NBA to highlight storylines like Kevin Durant to the Houston Rockets, Giannis Antetokounmpo's Legacy and who can catch the Shai Gilgeous Alexander & the OKC Thunder this season. Gil’s Arena premieres every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday at 11:30am PT / 2:30pm ET. Sign up for Underdog Fantasy HERE with promo code GIL and get up to $1000 in Bonus Credit and A Special Pick: https://play.underdogfantasy.com/p-gil's-arena SUBSCRIBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAvjYgmwadC682OoC4Cc6TQ Join the Underdog discord for access to exclusive giveaways and promos!https://discord.gg/underdog Must be 18+ (19+ in AL, NE; 19+ in CO for some games; 21+ in AZ & MA) and present in a state where Underdog Fantasy operates. Terms apply. Concerned with your play? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit www.ncpgambling.org; NY: Call the 24/7 HOPEline at 1-877-8-HOPENY or Text HOPENY (467369) CHAPTERS:00:00 Intro02:06 Stephen A’s Return To Radio04:17 Stephen A GETS REAL On His Rise12:21 Stephen A’s Day-To-Day21:14 Stephen A’s Toughest Interview24:10 Stephen A CALLS OUT Gil After His Arrest29:30 Stephen A Gets Real on His Relationship with LeBron33:39 Why Kobe & LeBron Will Never Be Jordan43:49 What If Melo Went To Detroit51:46 Why Stephen A Hates The New NBA57:24 Expectations For Luka & The Lakers1:04:23 LeBron Should Feel Disrespected By The Lakers1:06:52 Stephen A Doubles Down On His Giannis Take1:16:02 Who Can Dethrone The OKC Thunder1:27:58 Stephen A GETS REAL On The State Of The NBA1:33:28 Advice To The Next Generation Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get to Toronto's main venues like Budweiser Stage and the new Roger Stadium with Go Transit. Thanks to Go Transit's special online e-ticket fairs, a $10 one-day weekend pass offers unlimited travel on any weekend day or holiday anywhere along the Go Network. And the weekday group passes offer the same weekday travel flexibility across the network, starting at $30 for two people and up to $60 for a group of five. Buy your online go pass ahead of the show at go-transit.com slash tickets. Welcome back to Gil's Arena, presented by Underdog. Whoa, whoa, whoa! Good to be back home. As always, we got the legend Gilbert Arena is here with us.

Represented Tough Crowd, Tough Crowd University. We got Mr. B, Brandon Jennings. And before we introduce our special guest, I ain't going to lie, Gil. It feels good to be back here. He's a little shaky in those streets. I almost had to update my ZipRecruiter profile. Have me a little nervous, but we're back here. I know some of y'all are praying on our downfall.

Keep praying. It's not going to happen anytime soon. But we got a special guest making his second appearance in the arena, host of the Stephen A. Smith Show on YouTube and everywhere you get your podcast, New York Times bestselling author, host an executive producer of ESPN's number one morning show first take. And very soon we'll be bringing two new shows to Sirius XM exclusively, including a daily sports show,

as well as a weekly show focusing on current events, pop culture, some social commentary. He got more jobs than the Headley family from Haymond for all my living color fans out there. Stephen A. Smith, welcome back to Gills Arena, presented by Underdog. How you going, I'm good, man. Good to see y'all.

How y'all doing? So you was ducking us for a while, but you came back on in March, and now you back here again. Well, first of all, I was never ducking, y'all. You were busy. I busy as hell. But I promised him I would come and I came,

and then this particular time, I rearranged my schedule just to make sure I was going to be here. Okay. So I'm here in the house. You are right. There's a lot of people rooting for y'all downfall, but they're damn showing me.

So I'm here rooting for y'all. I'm here. Well, we appreciate you. And if you want to get your bread right, go ahead, download the underdog app. Use promo code Gil. Get up to $1,000 in bonus cash, plus a special pick-em.

If you can't watch the show with us on YouTube, we got audio version available on Apple, Spotify, so wherever you get your podcast. So I mentioned in your intro, stay working. Back in March, you need a five-year extension with ESPN for some F-U-level, bread of Chini.

You also agreed to a multi-year deal with Sir X-XM to do two shows, exclusively on their platform. Stephen A. Smith Show would launch September 2nd and Straight Shooter, which is launching on September 17th. So why did you decide to go back into the radio game and the launch a show covering topics

beyond the world of sports? Well, number one, my deal with Sirius XM isn't just for me to be a host, it's for me to be a partner. So it's the one thing to just get the dollars and that's another thing to share in the profits. So that's one of them. Let me just be real about it.

The other part about it is that, you know, I'm the kind of person that I don't hide. And so when you're doing radio, it's like, it's live. I'm Mad Dog Sports Radio leading in the Mad Dog's Rousseau show. I'm taking callers. You got something to say, I'm right there, you know. Not only that, it re-airs after his show goes off. So it's 1 to 3 Eastern that he comes on 3 to 6.

Then my show re-aired from 6 to 8. And any time I want to, if there's something that went on between 3 and 6, that I ain't get an opportunity to address, I can simply go back on the air and address it again. Okay. So I like being a bit conspicuous. I like having that kind of presence where you can try to get around me, but you really, really can't. And so I don't mind work.

I don't mind working hard. Hell, I couldn't play. I better know how to do something else. So it better be one of them situations where, you know, I'm out there on my grind and I'm doing what I do. And I've been in this business for a long time. And, you know, radio is a really, really big deal from the standpoint of being able to communicate with listeners and callers and volleying back and forth and having that presence. But not at the expense of me giving up my YouTube channel. up my YouTube channel. I wasn't going to do that.

And I did the expense of something with ESPN. I didn't do that. So right now, I feel like I've got it all. So we'll see what happens. Was that radio a little bit harder? I don't think it makes it hard. I think it makes it easier. For me, the hard part is taping stuff and doing stuff that has to live for a few days in terms of relevance. Like if I'm doing a show on Monday and then you don't see me until Thursday,

that content has to live and be relevant through Tuesday through Wednesday in the Thursday. I don't have to worry about none of that when I got a daily show. Because a daily show, it's like this something happening every day. All right, it's my turn to come on the air now based off of what happened last night or something like that. Here I am. So I like that level of relevancy because it keeps me topical and relevant in that regard. So how is it being one of the highest paid, you know, black media persons right now that's done it his way? you know um i'm very proud of it because i don't look at this industry the way a lot of cats who have

been in the industry looking to see when they see y'all i don't want to speak for everybody but they know who they are they view y'all as a threat you know you form of players you got this platform you're not quote unquote polished in terms of what journalism etiquette is and all of this other stuff and As a result, you're invading other people's territory. I've never looked at it that way. When I was a reporter, I was fighting for cats to get paid. A matter of fact, if you go back and you look at my history, there's a lot of times that no matter how harsh I could be

and critical, I could be actually held off on it until you got paid. Because I want you to get paid first. I was never one of those dudes that was standing front center. Don't pay them. I was never one of those guys. I wanted people to get paid. So you transitioned that to this industry itself. I'm very proud of y'all and a whole bunch of other cats that are out here with their platforms.

That's why you've seen me doing these interviews and stuff like that, because I want cats to know I'm not, I'm not rooting to get you. I want you to get yours. But I do look at myself as an elder in this business because I came into the business before they were podcasts. I came into the business before there was Instagram and TikTok and all of that stuff. When I came up in the business in March of 2003, when I got named the general sports columnist for the Philadelphia Inquirer, at that time, I was the 21st African American in this country's history to get that title. The Will Bonds of the World, Mike Will Bonds, Bill Rodins, Kevin Black of Stones, and others, they had that title. When that happened, people didn't realize this is 2003. Now, this ain't 19703.

This is 2003. You understand that you didn't have a license to give your opinion unless you were a columnist. So in order to express your thoughts and perspectives, not just report and effects, but to give your opinion, you had to be licensed as a general sports columnist or an NBA columnist or an NFL columnist to give your opinion.

And in 2003, there were only 20 people in American history who were given license in sports, even though the vast majority of athletes were African-American. And so think about that for a second. When you look at it from that standpoint, and then you see all of this happen in the day where all of us got an opinion and all of us got a voice. Yeah, the advent of technology has assisted in that dramatically, and we get that part. But the point is people actually care what you have to say and what you have to say,

not just because you're a players, but because you have an informed opinion. And to me, I pride myself in being one of the guys that helped open doors like that and make people think about what we could do outside of playing the game itself in terms of speaking on a plethora of issues. And I've always been supportive of it. And that's why I'm so proud of everybody that's doing it. So 2003 is when you became a writer? When did you...

No, a general sports comment. I was like, I was a beat writer for the Philadelphia 76. So I every you, that beat writer, when you're a beat rider, you go wherever the team goes, as y'all know. I was a beat writer from 1997 to 2003. Okay. I'm sorry, 2002. 2002, I became an NBA columnist. And 2003, I became a general sports columnist.

And the difference is the NBA columnist gets to give his opinion about the NBA. The general columnist gets to give his opinion about all sports. So when did you get on TV? ESPN. CNN SI. They had a thing called CNNSI, CNN Sports Illustrated. I started out in TV in 1999. 2001, I went to Fox Sports. And then about a year and they changed into the best damn sports show period. They wanted me to be on there full time. I turned it down because Tom Arnold was on there, the comedian. Mad respect to him. It's just that I knew sitting next to a comedian every day, I wasn't going to be

taken seriously and that would be a death now. So I was making, what was it, like $75,000 a year working and Fox Sports came to me and offered me three years, $1.5 million or so, and I turned it down because I was like, that's not the long game. I take this now, I'll never get to a place like ESPN or something like that because I would have been sitting next to a comedian and they would have thought we were all about jokes. And so instead of doing that, John Sally, they ultimately went to him, but they kept me on as the NBA analyst. And I would do that, and then ultimately ESPN came calling in October of 2003. And that's when I started at ESPN and everything just took off from there.

So how long did it take you, obviously, King of Sports Media right now, but how long did it take you to find your voice, become comfortable being on camera, being able to give takes and deal with the controversy backlash, deal with athletes obviously coming for you with the things that you have to say? I've never really viewed myself as somebody who had to find my voice. I've always been me. I mean, anybody that talks to me that sits down and rass of me, they get on the phone me, whatever, I pretty much sound the same all the time.

I might sound less loud, but I'm pretty much the same guy. And the reason why is because even though I graduated with a degree of mass communications, you know, I never studied television. So I was writing for the school newspaper and ultimately writing for Atlanta Journal Constitution, Winston-Salem Journal, New York Daily News as a high school reporter before I went to the Philadelphia Inquirer. So it was always writing. The television came in the play when CNNSI auditioned me in their Atlanta studios. I knocked it out of the park.

They brought me on the air that transition to Fox Sports and then ultimately ESPN. But it was never about finding the voice because I was like I'm not trained in terms of being on camera. So know what you're talking about be as real and authentic as you can possibly be in expressing yourself and let the tips forward where they may and lo and behold You know the Lord bless me enough to the people loved it and they gravitated towards me and that was when they gave me the show quite frankly a couple of years later But it was also my work ethic because you signed a deal and you with ESPN at the time you signed for appearances So I was getting paid like a thousand dollars in appearance for 225 appearances a year. And then the boss, who was at the time Mark Shapiro,

who's now the president of William Morris Endeavor, he was the boss of ESPN at the time. And he lost his damn mind because he got a bill for $550,000. And he said, this is $325,000 more than I signed this man for. That makes no sense. How the hell did that happen? And the producers were like, we love him.

And he never says no. When we want him on the air, he goes. So they had penciled me in for 225 appearances, but I did 550. And so when I did 550, he was like, when does this dude sleep? And so he saw the numbers. He saw the way people gravitated towards me.

He saw me put me on NBA shootaround is what it was called at the time instead of countdown. And when he put me on NBA shoot around and stuff like that, and the ratings took off and all of that, he said, yo, I'm gonna get this man his own show and that's how it happened so you talk about the grind but you know i think a lot of people look at you we see you all the time i'm gonna see you on first take i'm see on youtube now i'll hear you on the radio but what's the average day like for stephen a smith and how do you

balance all your professional obligations with your personal life well i think balance is overrated um me too i think balance is overrated i think where your heart and your passion lies that lead you like you can you can have 50% family and 50% work but if you miserable with your family at this particular moment in time that 50% ain't something that you need to be having at that particular moment of time if you miserable at work that 50% ain't something that you need to have you got to balance it out it fluctuates it's fluid as I like to say it's fluid and so you have to look at it that way but for me it's really about getting up every morning first of all I go to sleep at night with stuff on my mind about what I want to talk about the next

day. I have an idea of what the pulse of the world of sports or anything that I'm doing, where it's at at that particular moment of time. That is an advantage that you do have as a journalist. Because as a journalist, you eat, live, and breathe. What's relevant? What's percolating right now? What's happening at 3 o'clock? All right, this isn't relevant at 8 o'clock tonight. This ain't relevant the next morning at 7 o'clock. You got to stay on top of it. And so for me, that's something I do naturally all the time. I'm constantly aware of whatever's percolating in the news. And I go to sleep with it on my mind with an idea I wanted to avoid what I want to touch on.

But then I wake up the next day and say, am I correct? Let me double check. As something changes, the momentum shifted. Is there something else going on that people want to hear about? And that's when I brought up the fact that when you're doing a podcast or a YouTube show, unless you're doing something daily, it becomes a challenge. Because I might want to do this today. But now, if I don't come back on the air until two, three days from now,

I got to think about how relevant that is going to be 24, 48, 72 hours from now. When you're doing it daily, now, not so much. But the daily part is the daily ground because you have to make a commitment. And when you make that commitment to your audience, you've got to live up to it. If your audience expects to see you daily, your ass got to be there daily. You can't be somebody that, yeah, yeah, come watch me daily. and they see you every now and then. That doesn't work.

You got to condition the audience to expect whatever it is that they're going to expect from you. And I roll over with that approach. I wake up every morning, 6.30, getting a little exercise, got my morning meeting at 7.30, formulating the rundown for first take, studying before I go on the air for first take, studying, making sure that the rundown for the shows,

the other shows that I'm going to do is in place. Go on first take, get that out the way. make sure I do those other shows get that out the way but if I'm in the car I'm listening to sports and news if I'm sitting down I'm reading sports and news if I'm watching television I'm watching sports or news I'm one of those guys that I'm constantly constantly on there are exceptions you know when you you know

when you with your honey there's an exception when you're with you and your children that's an exception you know but for the most part that's your life yeah people don't understand like that grind it takes And, you know, when I was, you know, starting a podcast and game and when I talked to Duane Wade and he says, treat it like you start in your basketball career, they're not going to respect the athlete of you, so become the journalist. Right.

Right? Because they are journalists. They got degrees. They went to school for the job you're going to get because of your name. So once I figured that out and I got that information, I started looking at all the tops to see what makes them great. And then to realize is the grind behind the scenes of watching, studying, that's why, you know, you guys have lasted so long. So that's what made this show so good.

Right, right? You put so much effort and time into it, understanding, like, personalities, what's moving, what's not, what's hot, what's entertaining, what's not, reading the comments, see, you know what I mean? So, you know, that's what I pride of myself on is becoming a journalist. and the entertainer at the same time you know and and you know I respect you know what made everyone so great that's why I wanted to know how you started and the fact that you said

you got paid a thousand dollars and did it five just Jesus Christ 550 times 550 550 appearances I'm in one year I'm slipping and I think that year I mean he couldn't believe it I think that year he sure I was on the air

every day but two days for the entire year yes i was on i was like 363 days and and i'm sitting there looking at people like what's the problem you know it doesn't phase me and that was when i had to go to a studio that wasn't once i built the studio on my home you see what i'm saying so it was like once it's in the home i'm looking at it i'm like we got people out here look at the median salary that exists in the united states of america you got cats struggling to make $60,000 a year, you know? And so you gotta look at things from a practical perspective sometimes

because that's what the audience does. They look at their lives and they look at us as being in an elevated level and rightfully so because we're making the kind of money that the average person in America won't make. And so when you look at the fact that the average person is struggling to make ends me, struggling to pay their rent, their mortgage,

fooled on the table, basic shit that we grew up with that we had to overcome all to the places that we are. What possible excuse can you have if you doing television and they call you and we need you to come on the air for 15 minutes? What's the problem? You know, how is that really a challenge?

I know cats who will remain nameless that have lost their jobs in our business because they were assholes to producers and stuff like that who were calling them and, oh man, I need you for sports center. I need you for this show. I need you for that shit. I ain't got time for that.

the greatest, I remember my former boss, his name was John Wildack, he was the former executive VP at ESPN, he's now the AD at Syracuse, and he asked me to come there and give a speech to the Syracuse football team about three years, three or four years ago or so, and it was one of the proudest moments that I had, not giving the speech because I do that all the time, but what he said in his introduction. he had been in the business for 35 years and he said this young man that I'm about to introduce you to is the only person that I ever had to make take vacation

he said he doesn't stop you know years ago when Dwight Howard was leaving the Lakers to go to Houston and every like people couldn't believe it because I was on sports center from an undisclosed tropical location in this particular instance it was St. Thomas I was on a boat going from St. Thomas to St. John's and Dwight Howard had called me because the story he was like they're talking about I'm not going to Houston. I'm leaving for Houston. Go ahead. Let him know. And he said, tell him I told you. And I was on the phone in the ocean. I don't know how I kept the signal. But from St. Thomas to St. John's is a 15 minute boat ride. And I was going to trunk bay and I was on sports center. And they're like, What the hell are you doing?

You're supposed to be on vacation? Why have it called? Plain and simple. You know, it's like you got a job to do, you got a job to do. Certainly, you don't want to have your time and stuff like that. But shit, the audience don't care about that. The audience wants to know what it wants to know. And if you're the person that has that kind of access

and you have that kind of information, and they want to hear from you, are you going to fulfill that obligation or are you not? It's like a player. And in a roundabout way, it's what enables me to hold players accountable. Because when you, if you're playing ball, right, are you in shape? Are you taking care of yourself?

Are you doing what you're supposed to be doing? Because when it comes to my job, I'm going to make sure I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. So I'm looking at you and saying that's the job you volunteered for. I'm not judging you against me or somebody else. I'm judging you against your industry, your contemporaries, about a job you volunteered for. This is what you said you wanted. Are you doing what you're supposed to do to maximize your potential? When I cover a sport, that's how I cover it.

And I don't define success for somebody else. I let them to find it. And then I say to them, okay, so we're going to see if you're living up to it. Because you said, boom, boom, boom. And that's how you approach it. Yeah, what's been your toughest interview? My toughest interview. Damn, that's a good question.

interviewing T.O. Because you never knew when he was playing or when he was serious. I don't mean that disrespectfully. I'm just telling you the personality. That was always a tough one. I would tell you AI because Alan Iverson,

because it was always tough for me because contrary to popular belief, I was protective of him. There are interviews that I've had with Alan Iverson that y'all have never, nor will ever hear, okay? Because he just didn't need to say the shit he was saying. Okay? And I looked at it that way. It's like, wait a minute now.

Now, some people look at that and they'd be like, oh, see, he's compromises, journal. Bullshit. Every single journalist makes a call. No journalist reveals everything. they know you always hold stuff back and there's the truth that you have to tell but every truth ain't meant to be told

that doesn't mean you lie doesn't mean you deceive it doesn't mean you misrepresent or lack contextualizing properly what somebody is saying but every single thing doesn't need to be revealed and it got to a point where covering Alan Iverson it was like some of the things he would say oh my God No, I'm not going to say that, you know.

So that makes it tough because, you know, you got a job to do and you can make sure that you do your job and give people the meat of what they're looking for, but in the same breath, you know, when you've cultivated a relationship with somebody, you do feel somewhat protective of them from time to time, and you want to pull their coat tails and be like, yo, man, nah, you don't want to do that.

Yeah. Well, that happens a lot. Yes, a lot. I've had to do, when we were doing pre-recorded, somebody would say something. And I said, let me listen back to it to see if I would want that out. And I'd be like, yeah, could be somebody be talking. I'd just be like, we're just going to cut all this.

We just look at each other. That's like, I've done some interviews. It was like three hours long by the time I got cutting with it, 45 minutes. And any journalist who tells you, who criticizes you for that is full of it. Again, you have an obligation to give an audience truth. or as close to the truth as you can get. You do have an obligation to contextualize things properly and make sure that you're giving them that.

But everything ain't meant to be revealed. And all of us make those decisions. So any journalist that tries to be critical of y'all in that regard, they're full of it. You're talking about holding players accountable, but you also hold former players accountable. As we know, with Gil, had a situation a short while ago, you know, the arena.

was in limbo working the phones we didn't know y'all was keeping it real you know I love you I was ready to sneak with the Titanic I was gonna get on a life bubble I was ready to go down with you but you got Gil here so what advice would you give Gil now I know you have

some thoughts and opinions on the table well I've already spoken to Gil and Gil I've already given Gil some advice I got a lot of love for Gil and I mean that's sincerely it's all right for me to say that in front of y'all it's very very few people that reach out to get counsel

and receive it in the spirit that it was given. If y'all saw me on my show, I said to him, yo, it ain't a joke.

You know, because my point is that that man say he innocent, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. He innocent, shit. It's just that simple to me. But that's me

and how I feel. That doesn't mean that when you're speaking on it, you have the license to just disregard what assertions or allegations are out there because we all have to take that

into consideration as well. So it's a very, very serious matter. And so when that's something like that happens, you're sitting there and you're looking at them and it's like if with Brandon here, if Kenya was here, Swaggy P was here, the whole nine, Shard of course, I would tell everybody the same thing.

Yo, y'all got something special. You understand? And I can say that because for all intending purposes, I've made it. You know what I'm saying? I'm going to do my thing. And of course, I want to be competitive numbers wise

and all stuff like anybody else. But I'm not ruling for anybody to fail. There's a lot of people room for you to fail. Yeah, yeah. You understand? And his name is attached to all of this. You ain't the star basketball player in Washington or anywhere else no more.

This is a different platform and it's a different game. It's a brilliant brother right here. Smart as shit. No one knows what he's doing. And the team that y'all have assembled, I'm very proud of what I see y'all doing. Now you have to understand that other people see it.

And now you're a target. It's like welcome to the big time. You know, you're not irrelevant. You're not minuscule. You're not the person we get to ignore because, please, that's just going to give them shine. And now you're the target. And so when you know that, you got to elevate your level of play,

Meaning that in his case, it's time to embrace the seriousness that it deserves because of the greatness you've already shown you have on this platform. And to understand that there's people that don't care about you, there's people that are jealous of you, that means they're going to lie on you, they're going to celebrate your trials, they're going to root for your demise, they're going to do all of this. I know they're coming for me. that's the difference you know he's learning they're coming from him I wake up understanding I'm a talking every day I'm lied on every day

every week of every year stuff that I say is embellished it's reshaped it's misconstrued it's disseminated in its own way I get all of that you know and I come from a place where I'm more comfortable than any of y'all are at with this because no matter how great y'all are

at doing it it's still new me I've been doing this for 30 plus years it's a walk in the park for me I wake up thinking about who I want to fuck with you know what it's like you really really want to go there we can go there you know knowing that 99% of the time I'm not going to bother

but I'm only not going to bother because I don't have to not because or I don't want to not because I'm scared because I'm at a place and point in my career where I can literally reach out and touch anybody I want to any time I want.

I literally have the license to wake up in the morning go like this. Who do I want to touch today? Literally. Seriously. I really, really do. What are they going to do about it?

First take? Well, I'm the executive producer. I'm the executive producer. The straight shooter with Stephen A. Politics and all that. I'm the executive producer. You know, my YouTube channel. I'm the owner and the executive producer.

And I host them all. What are you going to do if I really, really want to touch you? Multiple platforms and get them. All you're going to do is talk. You might clap back, but there's a level of understanding that I have that y'all are going to grasp. See, because I've been in corporate America, contrary to what most of these cats tell y'all, they want it to because they want corporate dollars. Well, I have relationships with corporate executives.

So it's like when somebody's talking shit about me, they're not realizing the executive is looking at them and going like this. oh that's what you're doing we don't want his ass or her we don't want him we don't need him you're our guy I didn't say a word didn't do anything they ran their mouth and all of a sudden they conveniently out of a job oh well shouldn't have ran your mouth you got to know who you dealing with same principle same principle got to let people kill themselves so on that subject quickly so when you were in the arena earlier this year talked about a situation with you and In regard to some comments you made about him and brawny, you spoke at length about it. Braun went on Pat McAfee's show also addressed the situation.

But I got to know now as it stands, what's the situation with you and LeBron and what's the relationship like? There's no situation. There's no relationship. He doesn't like me and I don't like him. Still, can we, can we mediate? Can we increase the people? There's nobody that can mediate.

Okay. It's okay. I would tell you that what I won't do is spend time when I, the one thing that I would like to say is that I don't talk about him unless I'm asked. Now some people say, well, why are you talking about him? Because I was asked. And this is what I do for a living. So how the hell am I going to get away with saying, no comment?

That doesn't work coming from Stephen A. It might work coming from somebody else. It doesn't work coming from me. But I have no desire to talk about him at all. He is, in my mind, the second greatest player in the history of basketball, who is a four-time champion, a four-time league MVP, has been an incredible ambassador for the game of basketball. His respect has been earned, not given, and nobody can deny that. But that's the basketball player, not the man. And all I would say is people don't know the things that

have happened behind the scenes, things that have been said, who they've been said to, the kind of things that have been engaged in in an effort to hurt me, along with contemporaries and others, there's a lot of shit that I know that I don't say. And there's a reason that I feel the way that I do. And the last straw was him approaching me and turning the brawny thing into something about me attacking somebody's family when it was him I was talking about, not Bronny. And then to go on the Pat McAfee show, which comes directly on after my show, on the channel that I work on to insult me. Now, people could get into all kinds of components that come

with it and all of that other stuff. I have nothing to say. I'm a professional. I represent ESPN. I now represent Sirius XM. Most importantly, I represent myself, and I'm never going to denigrate any employer, any partner, or myself by getting into anything excessively unnecessarily when it comes to him or anybody else. I'm going to do my job. I'm going to cover the game of basketball. But if I never, ever speak to him again in life, that will be okay. And I'm good with it. And that doesn't, and I want to say, I'm not encouraging anybody else to feel that way about him. His peeps, you know, other people that have relationship with him, players, executives, coaches, all that stuff.

What he, this is me and him. I don't want to influence anybody else's opinion about him. But if we never speak again in life, me and him, I am perfectly fine. with that. But I'm man enough where if he ever wanted to speak to me, I would. But it wouldn't be the most pleasant conversation, at least initially. And that's just where I stand with it, meaning no disrespect. But there's a lot of things that have happened that he don't know, I know. And that was the final stroke. So that's where I'm at with it. People could take whatever they want to or whatever but i'm not playing i'm i'm dead serious you know it was a lot has happened

and those two moments was the last straw and that's where i'm at when it comes to you know um that that conversation of the goat right where you say you have them second yeah as players we try to understand what is the criteria that is being used because usually the players top five very different from medias okay um and that's fair and it's it's we try to understand what what is the criteria to for you guys because obviously it's very different from us because we're in alliance then so we know who is better than who we we gauge the value of their team to players versus their success so we know like okay you have this team we know you

don't supposed to win we're tripling you how are you performing right right so we we gauge stuff like that that's why our list is a little different so you know we for the most part what is the criteria that media is being used I don't know I think that's a legitimate question and I don't think there's one definitive answer to that to be in fairness to you And I think that one of the great things about this podcast is that no matter how we feel when y'all open your mouth and y'all start talking basketball, and I got to give Kenya in love for this, too, because Kenya's always been a serious brother. He means what he says, and he says what he means. And even if he's wrong, it comes from an edified place.

He ain't speaking ignorantly. He's making points. It's just that sometimes you agree, you don't agree with him. But he's a rough rider, and I got mad respect for him. I think it's important to understand that when we look at Jordan, for example, we look at six finals, six MVPs, unblemished in that championship round, never allowing a game seven to take place. We've seen in one pressurized moment after another where he answered the call. We look at Kobe. He's a five-time champion.

You have a lot of people out there that put him ahead of LeBron because of that. I think Kobe was a killer God rest of the soul the brother would he'd be somebody that he'd give it to you and not to say that he didn't play defense because obviously you know in his hate

and his prime he was an elite defender the flip side to it however is that when you're playing with Shaq and the rest of the crew and then ultimately Gasol and Bynum and the rest of the crew you had a crew

when you struggled you really really struggled that was never LeBron see when you look at LeBron LeBron took their team to the finals and then you get swept by San Antonio but you saw what he did everywhere he's been teams have elevated

so you can't take that away from him because he's 6'9 he's 260 because he could play inside and out because he can be you know lethal in the open court because he could step things up defensively because of so many things that he brought to his arsenal and how he would create mismatches

which I think is one of the things that he did better he's done better than most you look at him along with the four championships and what have you you say you can't take that away from him because as bad as the lakers were as they descended right in Kobe's final few years there would that have ever happened with lebron the answer is no well lebron james no team would have been as bad as the lakers were at one point so you take that into consideration as well you think about all of those things and then you look Look at a Bill Russell, for example. Yeah, different time, 11 championships, 13 years, you get all of that.

But in the same breath, he was a defender and the rebounder, but it was far from an offensive juggernaut. You look at a guy like Will Chamber, who are arguably the most unstoppable big man in the history of basketball. But I'm looking at your number one nemesis, which was Bill Russell, and he outnumbered you 11 and 2 in titles. Plus, you had quit in an NBA finals game in the eyes of a lot of spectators. So you got that going on. I'm looking at Jerry West, God rest his soul, a silhouette. where you want one title, the nine tries. You see what I'm saying?

I'm looking at that. I'm looking at a Tim Duncan, the five titles. Yeah, but it was Popovich. Yeah, you, Manuja, Genoblee, and Tony Park, and the crew. But you know what? You got the Lakers a couple of times. They got you a few times. Not quite the same.

The diesel, shack, dominant. But a big man that played bully ball but struggled at the free throw line with 52% shooting for the free throw line, et cetera, et cetera. You got those things. There's so many different things that go at Tracy McGrady. It was big time. Trade T-Mack was no joke

but you got the title when it didn't matter. When you were in your prime, certainly Grand Hill getting hurt didn't help in Orlando. It's not your fault. We know that you had those requisite skills but what will forever be held against them was not only the absence of titles but you were up 3-1 on

Detroit and basically said the series was over and Chauncey and them brothers came back on you. I'm just saying I'm not talking about it. I'm not saying it was his fault I'm saying his words before the series was over. You know what I'm saying?

I mean, one of the things we marvel about when we talk about Kobe was that social media hit with Eamon Shumpert was playing for the Knicks and he talked about how he was going up against the Lakers and Kobe and came up to him and said,

you had a really good game. Pat him on the back, you had a really good game. And it was the end of the third quarter and then Kobe in the fourth went berserk. So, you know, you marvel at shit like that because you sit there and you're like this, all right, you're talking some shit, you know,

and then you see somebody like yourself, you know, it's age of zero. And then you drop in 60 on somebody. That shit matters. And so you think about those moments and then you go back to LeBron and his greatness and you say, yeah, it's there. It's legit.

But we do remember the finals against the maps. We do remember that you struggled in the fourth quarter of four consecutive games. We do remember that J.J. Barreya and Jason Terry were guarding your ass and you didn't do something about it. Two excellent defenders.

Well, no, no. So I'm just saying that you look at something like that, that don't stop you from being number two, but it'll stop you from being number one because you know what Jordan would have done because Jordan did it. So those kind of things, again, it's all debatable in people's eyes, but not to me when it comes to Jordan. And then they say, well, why not Kobe? You know, with Jordan, I said, because Kobe idolized and practically it was the greatest imitation of Michael Jordan

we may have ever seen in terms of style, right? Still came up one title short. Still got beat up in the NBA finals twice. You remember that. And so it's like, you're up there, you're great, but who you aspired to be,

you never caught nor eclipsed. And that's how you look at it. So you come to the conclusions for a variety of reasons, but my thing is I'm not disrespecting you we're having a conversation about the greatest you're in the conversation

there's no reason to be to feel disrespected it's just a matter of whatever somebody's opinion is even when it comes to Kobe I don't think anybody ever considers the the start of it right when you're talking about

top 10 top 5 top 20 shit probably top 30 he's the only player that came off the bench two years yeah So nobody realizes how great he had to become from where he started. That's fair. That should be factored in.

When you're talking about the top 20, they were giving the keys as this is your team. Well, not Steph. Yeah, Steph was a starter. Steph was like 18 his first year. He started his rookie year. How many games? He started the majority of his first games. I think towards the end, but I'm bummed saying.

But this is literally off the bench two years straight. About Kobe? Yeah. First two years? Off the bench. Yeah. Like, off the bench.

You know, Eddie Jones was there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Kobe, like, he had one start, right? In two years? Right? So, like, to start off like that to then become

who you became, but that should be, you know, kind of factored in just a little bit. Yeah. When it comes to the T-Mack on that part,

and I go back... And I love T-Mack, one of my all-time favorite. Seven starts in his first season. I look at it like this. You guys, you guys,

we're up 3-1, but you lost, right? And we're laughing because you lost. Technically, y'all was supposed to get swept. So we have to factor in that you won three games that you didn't even supposed to win because there was a one-verse-eight seed. I look, you know what I mean? I look at it like that.

If we're saying you're supposed to get four-old and you did get three wins, it's still three wins. Right. But you have to remember, and this is fairness to you, because you're a basketball aficionado. So when you bring this up, basically you're saying these conversations should be left to the basketball officials, which I respect because you're right, because most people don't remember they were supposed to get swept. Most people don't remember that. They don't remember you didn't have Grand Hill.

You were carrying Orlando on your back single-handedly, and the Detroit Pistons were en route to winning the title, and here you are standing in their way. But what they do remember is that you said the series was old. You know, I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember the exact wording of this. quote right now, but he said the series was over after they were up 3-1. He was basically saying, man, it'd be good to advance to the next round

and, you know, you were talking like that. So, Kat's going to remember that. They're going to remember that because you teamack and you had that kind of game and you can look at it the fact that they were supposed to get swept or you can look at it this way. U.T.

Matt, if you were good enough to win three, how come you get more. You know what I mean, you can look at it that way too. Recognizing it's like that's a cat that I always Him, Mello, you know how badly I want to see Carmelo

in the NBA Finals, man. Because I know I know who he is. You know what I know. I know that brother is not going to shrink in the spotlight. Whatever you see him do, you put that brother on center stage in that moment, he's going

rise up. And it's a damn shame because if Joe Dumas had drafted him instead of Darko Militch Carmelo Anthony has a title, if not to. There's no way he doesn't have a title. But is he the same player? Like, do we view him the same? As who?

Top 75 and... You feel like another have the same career playing with Larry Brown? Like, does he have... I personally don't think so because Larry Brown didn't like rookies, right? He understood what his team was, so it would have took... Larry Brown when he's coached in Detroit? That was Joe Dumas pick.

I'm telling you. Oh, no, yeah. Joe Dumas made that call. Because Joe Dumas was tired of Larry Brown after year one. So it wasn't no way it was going past year. I mean, it was Joe Dumas team. And Joe Dumas, in fairness to him, in fairness to him, understand that Joe Dumas had Tashon Prince, he had Rip Hamilton, he had Benny and Rashid, eventually Rashid Wallace. Hamilton and he's like we got a crew we can you know Eastern Conference finals and then

ultimately the NBA finals back-to-back years we we got a crew his whole mentality was that we didn't need it but we needed another big but Carmelo Anthony was Carmelo Anthony coming out of Syracuse a national champion all-American and what he brought to the table and it's instant buckets you know what he's going to bring and if you know anything about Mello, even though he is mellow, that town was made for him. You know what I'm saying? Think about...

I mean, that kind of town, that was his environment. That brute basketball style. Listen, imagine if you got Chauncey and ripping them cats with you and you could score like Mello. I mean, think about that. I don't think they lose the San Antonio that year

when my brother, because I love my man Rashid Wallace, we go back a long ways. But when he left Dan Robert Orrey in that left corner to make that three that sealed their fate in that game five I mean that that was a big deal I'm telling you when you talk about Carmelo Anthony in the scoring machine

that he was you put him on a squad like March squad too oh my lord that would have been special I think they would have won the first year and I think when they started digressing I think that's when Melo would have been very important for them

yeah he would have kept them up Yeah, he would have kept him a float. Because Mellon ended up playing with Chauncey Bullops anyway. Yes, he did in Denver. That's when they went to the conference. Yeah, so with him younger. It just, it seemed like they needed Biggs back then.

Yeah. Because that's, Rashid wasn't there yet, right? He came midway. Right. Yeah, he came midway through. Yeah. But I mean, from Larry Brown, he didn't play him in the Olympics either that year. No.

Yeah. So he didn't, he didn't mess with him. True, but they should have thought about the future. And listen, if you don't think about it, here's the, here's the picks. LeBron was one, Mello was three, and then you have Bosch and D. Wade at four and five. And Darko Mello Chicks at two. Think about it. Forget Mello.

If you had grabbed any one of them but Darko, you'd have been good if you're Detroit. And listen, Joe Dumas, I'm real happy for him because he's back in New Orleans. now running the show because he did an exceptional job in Detroit. They got the sixth consecutive conference finals. They got the back-to-back NBA finals and won a chip. And he deserves profound

respect. But that hurt him. That's forever a blemish on that resume that they passed, they drafted. And that's the most of the one of those three. That's the messed up. Because when I talked to Rashid, he said Darko was that dude.

he said Larry Brown didn't like that style Now Think about the style That we're seeing today That was Darko then And

He was like I need a back to I need somebody Who's gonna bang I don't need finesse Let me That's totally Larry Brown Who I covered

With his first You know all his years In Philadelphia I covered him I was the beat writer Let me tell you something I'm not buying that For Rushie

And I'm gonna tell you why If you are that that dude, once Larry Brown was gone, why weren't you that dude? See, I'm not going to buy, oh, it was, I was demoralized, and I became a head case, and I couldn't do, now, man, bump that. I want to hear that. No, that's the real thing, though. That's the real thing.

Y'all can say, y'all can say it's real, but who accepts that? Like, for example, if somebody F's up your mental, right? I understand that's a real thing. But they messed it up. once they go on you can't use them as an excuse now you still got a career now Larry Brown to stay there for 10 years and that's the way he had I got you

but damn you got a whole NBA career to look forward to your man was there for a couple years what the hell you're winding about that he's gone now what happened to the rest of your career nah I'm not buying that I'm not letting that Rashid I got to love you bro

it's like a wounded dog well all right all right but damn it's what hospitals and surgeons are full It's like a wounded dog. Somebody figured out. You get it out. He's in there with them, dog. You're not just, like, when you, like, trust me, I, I, I, I, we got the same, we got the same nemesis a little bit.

I was there in Washington real time. Right. Before I got there and I seen the effect. And I'm like, yeah. Talk about Kwame? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Really, that's what we're going? No, no, no, no, I'm just saying.

That's where we always go. I've seen, like, when, when I hear the conversations, it has. nothing to do with basketball. It was just some, the lights messing with my eye, too much smoke and messing up my lungs. Coach, when he gets in, five down, get on the ball. And he comes, like, no, no, just let me get up and down a couple times because I don't want to miss and get booed. Like, those are real things like, I'm not saying that.

You're scared to get booed. I'm not saying they're not real. But when you don't got it, when you don't have it, you don't have. And we don't get to sit back and go like this. Well, here are the reasons why this didn't happen. You understand what I'm saying? You get on the court, you'll give a brother 30 or 40 and a harpy. You didn't get to sit up there and say, you know,

Coach don't like me. I'm just as bad. And nobody's going to bring that up. Nobody's saying it's a lie. Nobody's challenging its truth. We're simply saying you don't get to do that. You have a career or you don't. You got a career to fulfill or you don't.

And when you haven't done it for a decade, a decade plus, you don't get to hide behind some coach that you have for a couple of years. What about the other 10? What's up? Come on, y'all. Come on now. No, I get it. Go on now.

You don't get to do that. What you're saying is you're right, because the players, we don't care. Either you're a player or you're not. So I get you. You know, when he upset and he depressed and the mental ain't right, but you're in a playoff game and you dancing on cats and you flinging him the ball

and he's missing a wide open lift you don't want to hear about his mental like this time it's going to be all right but no no fuck make that layup no facts facts facts make that lay up that's what you did that's what you're doing that's just how it is nobody cares about the excuse

yo how do you feel about the new style of the NBA how's it going a lot of three point shots I don't like it because most of them can't shoot that's the problem and I don't like the fact that the mid-range has been taken away to some degree. What I loved

about watching Shea was him doing his thing. Now the strongest three-point shoot God help the NBA if Shea Gilgilded's Alexander gets a three-point shot. God helped the NBA because he got everything else, all right? And the brother brings it. And so I look at covering basketball

to me, there's five different positions for a reason. I know things have changed. I know the power forward spot ain't what it used to be The center spot ain't what it used to be I get that part I totally understand it But that don't mean we should like it Like you don't want to see pounding the ball getting physical

A whole bunch of fouls being called You want an up-tempo style You want more fluidity brought into the game So I understand what the NBA was thinking But in the same breath When it gets so soft That you eradicate toughness from the game And I don't mean literally as if to imply

The players aren't tough Because I would never say that I'm talking about when the game is called tight, unless the pace is honored. That concerns me. And people keep thinking about Steph Curry. That's not me. I think about Mike Dantone, seven seconds or less. I think about when Jimmy Jackson got traded and arrived there.

And this brother comes in the game, and he commits a turnover, and the cat is racing down the court. And Jimmy fouls him and makes him go to the free throw line. and Mike then Tony whistles him to come over here, come over here. He said, we don't do that here. You don't file him, let him score. It quickens the pace. I don't want that. You see what I'm saying?

I want it made tough for you. I want to see what you can do against a bona fide defense, not assisted by the league in its rules. I want to see that happen because that's how we also get to judge players regardless of errors. And it's all a fun discussion This notion Please stop letting people

Don't fall for what these cats Oh please everybody got their own errors Why y'all talk about that? God damn it because we want to Because we want to We're talking sports Nobody talk about you and your woman Your wife or somebody

Your family talking the game What's wrong with talking the game What's wrong with looking at MJ And comparing them to LeBron or Kobe Or somebody? What's wrong? That's all a part of the game What's wrong with looking at a T-Mack And saying, yo

If he had this teammate, if he had this squad, if he had this coaching, this coaching, he would be able to do X, Y, Z. Oh, Grand Hill. What's wrong with speculating about? What if he had never had those ankle injuries? Could he have been of the same lineage as MJ and Kobe? Because I remind you, let's go back to college for a second. UNLVs in the national championship game, and what did they do to Duke? They annihilated that.

They beat him by 30. They stopped them. The very, very next year in the final four, Duke beat him. Same at UNLV squad, same Duke squad, with the exception of one person, Grand Hill. Grand Hill showed up there, and all of a sudden, Duke got a national championship. This Grand Hill, we're talking about. Didn't consider somebody that had the greatest jump in the world. Then gets drafted, comes to the Detroit Pistons.

Brother was a Skywalker. Brother was doing his thing on everything. Grand Hill was legitimate. Why wouldn't we talk about that? Why would we say, let's not talk errors? I'm going to look at Kareem and not compare to Ewing, Elaguan, Samson, Shack, or anybody else. Why would I not do that? That's talking basketball.

Those discussions, that dialogue celebrates the game. People don't want you to do it because they want to win in the argument, because they believe losing will ultimately compromise. their brand because of what they're trying to accomplish in this day and age. Bump that shit. It's a conversation. It's part of the game that we love.

There is nothing wrong with talking about it as long as you're acknowledging somebody's greatness and you're talking about them compared to other greats. So what, they don't finish first. They've convinced you in this day and age led by people who will remain nameless because they don't want to have that damn conversation still playing, okay?

Oh, my goodness, us talking about this, we're shitting on the game. We are not. We are celebrating the game. We're celebrating the game. We're even celebrating you if we got you two, three, five, or whatever. Because there's thousands upon thousands of players who played in NBA history and they ain't in the conversation. We are celebrating you. Don't let them convince you that we dissing them.

No, we're talking about the game. Talk about the game. I'm not going to lie. That's the watch fucking my eye up. It is, it is, it is blinking on the, yeah, it's, it's just, Markly. Oh, the AP? I don't know what it was.

It was just, that light was just up sitting here trying to move. Like, ah, that's going to rate you that. That's all right. Let me go ahead. Let's talk a little bit current state of the game. This is a pro-laker show. We don't hide it. We do not hire it.

So back on August 2nd, a Luca Donchic, greet to a three, your max, extension with the Lakers, keeping in L.A. until at least 2028, which also makes him eligible to sign a projected five-year deal for more than $400 million down the road. Luca had been looking slim and trim this summer, focusing on his dial-out and workout regimen, balling with Slovenia and Eurobasket. Obviously, still has a chip on his shoulder based on how that math situation ended with him getting traded to the Lakers. But what are your expectations for Luka in his first full season with the Lakers?

I think that the Lakers are title contenders. I do not think by any stretch their face. favorites, but they're being a, I love, I think J.J. Reddick did a hell of a job last year. And I think he's a damn good coach. His attention to detail, his willingness to get in the ass, hold cats accountable. I'm a Darwin Ham fan. I didn't think that Darwin Ham deserved to lose his job with the Los Angeles Lakers. He did get him to the conference finals. And then when they got bounced in the first round, both losses were against Denver. You know, and there's no shame in that with Nicole Yolich. So we understand that. But that doesn't take, that doesn't, that doesn't

that doesn't negate the fact that J.J. Reddick has proven to be a great hire. That brother can coach, you know, and, you know, we got a good relationship because he worked at ESPN with me in the whole bit, and I was rooting for him to get the job once it was open, and I'm happy he got it. Having said that, I don't think they have the personnel to upend Oklahoma City, a healthy Dallas squad, Kevin Durant's in Houston now. Let me tell y'all, son, you know, listen, it's KD, y'all. You know, we can act like we don't know, but we better recognize, brother the truth.

So if you got him with Armand Thompson, who I love, all right, Chagoon's still there? Van Blee's still there? Yo, y'all, they could do some things. I can't see the Lakers beating those teams. and they weren't even the ones that knocked them out. It was Minnesota who sent them home. You know, and Ant Man's game

ain't going anywhere. He's going to continue to elevate. So when I look at Luca, here's what I love about him being in shape. What I love about him being in shape is that, okay, so can we ask you to play some defense now? I mean, people will blow him by you.

I mean, hell, it looked like I could blow by you. I mean, damn. You're going to play some defense? I mean, because you got to do that. Because everybody, listen, he had an injury marred season last year,

he was out of shape plus he got traded so psychologically he was messed up. The brother still average 28, 8, and 7. There's Luca we talking about here. He is special, okay?

So we can't ignore that. And I expect him to be even more lethal offensively this upcoming season. And I don't expect any slippage from LeBron because I think that he's defied father time

for so long, I expect him to continue that because the one thing we can never question about him, he's always in phenomenal shape. He takes care of himself. But who else you got? Who else is going to, is Austin Reeves going to step up? Lim and Daddy? I mean, I mean, you know, I'm just saying they got to do, they got to do something. I just think that it's not that they're a bad team. They're a good team. I think their depth is a question mark. I think they need another legitimate scorer. And I think that there's about at least four teams in the West better

than them. Yeah, I can agree with you right now because the season is not here but as soon as day one starts we're number one. Skinny Luca. You know what I mean? A delusion hits. The delusion is right now, right now I'm normal. It's like, yeah, you know, it's not delusion

because it's very rational. Now, once the season starts, it's all straight delusion because it's all zero zero. You cannot be knocked because, listen, in A.A., the first thing they say is an acknowledgement. You know, you already admit it that you delusional. So it's okay, it's okay.

It's like, I can't, like anything that you say about the Lagos, look y'all, the brother did say he's losing. So let's just get over. When it comes to the Lakers, he's not all day. We got it. Ain't no problem. Ain't nobody going to hold it. He's a fanatic.

It's all right. I don't blame him. And this is the thing that kills me. I got a Laker closet. I never root against the Lakers because where do I want to be in June? For years, I have never apologized that my interest is in my social life. Where do I want to be in May and, Jew. I don't want to be in Utah.

I want to be in L.A. What's my dream match? What's what had me depressed? You know, we had a pandemic comes like damn near once every century. And when did it come this time? The Lakers and Miami in the finals and the damn boat. Do you have any

idea that I waited my entire career to be able to cover an NBA finals where I'm going between L.A. and Miami? And then you have I understand the magnitude of that. I waited forever. And the one time it happened is when they're in the damn bubble in Orlando.

So it's like, you know, when I'm sitting there with Riles and Miami and them and I'm going off and I'm like, look, man, I'm trying to inspire y'all. Could you do something? Because where do I want to be? I want to be in Miami and L.A. I'm never rude.

Look, you know it's bad when you don't mind the Clippers. You're like, hey, they in L.A. Okay, at least they in L.A. And they're quite the same as the Lakers, but they in L.A. So I ain't rooting against the Lakers. Safe to say Lakers final in LA, no solitaire locked in. Why do I need the solitaire? Why do I'm saying?

Because we were playing solitaire. What's wrong with solitaire? We were solitaire during the finals as well this year. Yeah, all of us. My brother, I've played solitaire all the time. I respect it. They can kiss my ass. I'm going to pick up, pull out my phone and play at any damn time I want to.

We was doing the same thing. traveling on the road covering all these games all year long and I pull out my phone to play Solitaire for two minutes and oh wait he's not focused on the game shut up don't you wish you were sitting here

the person who was recording wasn't focused either there we go he's not watching me wrong move that's right wrong mood and I'm about to make money off of Solitaire too y'all will find out about that soon enough too

watch me watch more entertaining than that final than a lot of people's eyes But let's keep the Lakers center. So, Luca, face with the franchise. Now, I think he's been well documented. It took him to a Backstreet Boys concert. I think that cemented his place as a face of the Lakers franchise. But you got LeBron been there now, I believe, year 8, year 23 overall.

Second team, all-N-Ba last season. He got my goal for the second team. I had him second team. But sixth in MVP voting, had to opt into the final year of his contract with the first time in his career. So during Lucas' extension press conference, Rob Polinka had this to say about LeBron's future with the team. Palinka said, if he had a chance to retire L.A.,

that would be great. So personal feelings and opinions aside, but should LeBron feel disrespected by how the Lakers are treating him at this point? No, I don't think so. They got a new blood. A cat that's going to be the face of their franchise for the next decade

where he's contemplating, walking away from the game in the next year or two. Last time I checked, that's business. Secondly, it's pretty hard to be insulted, when you're being paid $52 million for one year's work. So you can't get over that. Number three, no, don't know any more. He deserves more.

You deserve more. If it was allowed, if he could get more, you know, with the CBN and all of that stuff, he should get more. Because what he means to the NBA, from a box office perspective, is undeniable. So I'm not throwing any shade in that regard. I'm just simply saying, you still get $52 million.

Number three, let's call it what it is. You know, you won a championship in the bubble. double. Kyle Kuzman didn't have to be going after that. Alex Caruso didn't have to be going after that. Contavius Carwell Pope and others didn't have to be going after that. We might look at them now and say, okay, that's past eight. Certainly not in the case of Caruso, we just won a title local in the city.

But we might look at other cats and be like, oh, you know what, so what they're going. But in the immediate aftermath of that championship, nah, you still needed those cats. You wanted your boy Russell Westbrook. What did the Lakers do? They gave you your boy. You understand? You wanted coaches gone. What did they do?

They got rid of them. You wanted coaches to arrive. What did they do? They acquiesce. They abide by your wishes. I'm not saying he was wrong to have those wishes. You know, you're the face of a franchise. You're the star.

You're damn right you should have some say. No question about it. So there's nothing wrong with that. But the point is they obliged. And so at some point in time, it's somebody else's turn. And now it's Lucas' turn. And so because it's Lucas' turn, You know, you could be playing with others, but you're playing with that brother, who is a global iconic brand, who is good in terms of his numbers.

Even in the postseason, it's like him and Jordan only, what he does. And so when you look at it from that standpoint, it's hard to begrudge that. It's hard to have a problem with that. It's like there's a new star in town. That doesn't mean that your star has to descend. You go out on the court and you can show you still that dude. But his brother is that special and that can't be ignored. You said if Yannis doesn't win another championship, his legacy would be take a hit if he stays in Milwaukee.

What do you think that? Well, I'm glad you asked that question because, you know, Janus, he's one of my favorite dudes because he's a real one. but the way people took it, I don't think people grasp what I'm saying. I know he's an all-time great. There's no denying him. Of course he is. He's phenomenal.

And we get that part. I'm saying because he's so phenomenal, if the last title he won was in 2021 and he's never to win a title again, you're going to be like, damn, what happened? Because his talent warrants that. You're not going to blame him. You know it's the organization.

You know, it's Chris Middleton in his knees. You know, it's Drew Holiday being moved out of town. You know, it's Brooke Lopez not necessarily being that guy anymore. You know it's those other things. But what I'm saying is, is that when you're Janus Antitacumpa is great and phenomenal as you are, although it's through no fault of your own, it's hard to imagine you won a title in 2021. And other than that, you've been going home in the first round. that that's underachieving

now that doesn't mean he's the blame for it but it means that with that level of greatness more was expected more is on the scene we're looking at KD for example KD got his two titles what have we been saying over the last five or six years where have you been you've either missed the playoffs or you're going home in the first round

okay the one time you went in the second round was when you know Kauai Lennett went down and you were able to knock off the clippers because Kauai Lennan went down because remember the game before Kawhi Lennon had played and he dropped 38. You know so we're looking at stuff like that and we're saying

okay because you're on this level more is expected of you and when that doesn't happen particularly over a lengthy period of time we're looking at that greatness of saying it wasn't enough. Now in some instances it could be you

but not with Janus. It's not it's that you didn't get the pieces around him but the reality is that you don't want to sit around and see yannis at home in the first round every year and and having one title on his resume not even playing in another title or nobody wants to see that so what happens so what happens if he decides he wants to leave to go compete for that i don't have a problem with it because the organization would not have done what it's supposed to do but that's when he gets knocked for it depends You got to remember. See, everybody says that.

Like, for example, LeBron left. He went to join D. Wade and Bosch in Miami. So there was a knock for that. Certainly not for me, because the best four years I've had when he was like, I had no problem with it whatsoever. And nothing wrong with this.

Beautiful thing for me. So it was cool, right? KD. It wasn't even that you went to Golden State. It was that you did it after Golden State that beat you a month earlier. you were up 3-1

lose the 3-1 lead and then when you lose the 3-1 lead and you end up losing that series and you were less than yourself in that game 6 and that game 7 to join that same exact team had he left and went to another team other than Golden State

nobody would have sweated it it was that he went to the people that knocked them off so that's a different scenario than somebody like a Janus who wants to be in Milwaukee, has stayed in Milwaukee, delivered a title to Milwaukee, is a, you know,

a greyhound coming right at you, a locomotive coming right at you, all the time, and you look at the pieces around him, literally falling apart. You got Damian Lillet to come there and help him, and when Damian Lillet comes back from his injury, what happens?

He tears his Achilles. So everywhere you turn, he just, he can't catch a break. Nobody's judging Janus if he decides to get up and leave Milwaukee, we know it's not him. And so when I'm on first take, for example, I did a segment with Cam, Cam knew it one time.

It was laughing because he would come to defense and say the kind of things that y'all were saying, and I'll be like this, don't let it be you. How about that one? That's the philosophy. Don't let it be you. You can't be the reason. You see what I'm saying?

Nobody's looking at Janus. But they did look at KD. When you lost against Dallas, they did look at LeBron. You know, these kind of things happen. And when they're looking at you, that's when it gets dicey, as opposed to everyone knows it's not you. But the pieces around you, the organization couldn't help you, and you decided to move on. How many other players you feel that's in Yonis' position has that type of pressure, like you said, to win another one?

That type of pressure? Yeah, would you say, like Yolich, would you say Tatum? I don't think Yolkich, because we've seen Yokish be phenomenal winning league MVP's, and we know first of all, what you let go of Bruce Brown for? What you left go of Jeff Green for, money. So you compromise your get success because he still went out on the court and delivered and you see him walking around.

I mean, I say it affectionately, looking like a big tub of law, I can't jump onto a curve, and you can't stop him. It's unbelievable. I've never seen anything like, I mean, he's just turning around and, I mean, he's unstoppable. It's unbelievable to watch him play.

So you don't point the finger at him. You are looking at KD. Okay. You in Houston, bro. Yeah, they lost in the first round. That's a damn good team who's the number two seed in the West. All right? They got a young thoroughbred.

They got a big man. They got a shooter. All they really needed was you, a number one option. I was saying for the long time during the player, said Jeff Green is about it. out of here, up out of here, because he's too streaky, but he's too inconsistent. And the level of dedication, they felt they needed. They didn't feel like they were getting from him.

So I'm like, you, you Phoenix, you know, okay, that's a young talent you can bring and grow. You still got Devin Booker there, but understand, you know, you got to get something. But I'm looking at KD with EMA Udoca coaching this team and the personnel that they have. Houston should be knocking on the door. We look at Dallas. When you talk about a player, it's somebody, I would say it's KD. Anthony Davis comes to my mind. Here's why.

You are the reason Luca's gone in Dallas. See, people are not saying that. They keep talking about Luca in L.A. No AD. You in Dallas. You in Dallas, that's why Luca ain't here. You got to show up. Now, you lucked up because Kyrie wasn't there.

Because we all know where the showstopper Kyrie is. And he's a champion, okay? He ain't some just champion that just got a trophy because of LeBron. The brother average 27. Okay, this is Kyrie we talk about. We know what that brother can do. You got PJ Washington, ain't no scrub. You got lively and Gaffrin and them brothers in the middle.

You got size, size that enables Anthony Davis to play a play. his natural position instead of playing the five, which he didn't want, which he was complaining about when he was in L.A. So you look at them, you know Jason Kick and coach, you've got some depth, you're looking at Dallas, and you're saying, okay, well, how can they not win if debt brother Anthony Davis shows up? Especially since Luca, the reason.

And God help them, if Lucas playing all world and the Lakers elevate and they ascend and they're successful, but Dallas ain't oh that's a bad bad thing right here don't let that happen I'm talking right now you know what you can have Cooper flag and that's nice you lucked up you got number on overall pick and that took some of you know some of the venom out of them or whatever but it'll creep right back up if Luca gets out on that court and busts everybody's ass and Anthony Davis is just average Anthony Davis is an all star Anthony Davis is an all world player that brother can give you 28 and 12 every night

You better do it You better do it If you don't do it Folks gonna look at you It's just that simple So I look at it from that standpoint Those two names Definitely come to my mind

When you say If not Yonnas, who else It would be KD and it would be A D Okay So let's talk AB real quick Kyrie Amis What do you think?

Am I missing anything? No, I'm saying for You is number two Without Kevin Durant If Karen Durant comes and the average is about 26 like he does. And they're not winning. Wouldn't that be on the coach?

Yes, if they're not winning. That's not what I mean. What I'm saying is we watched them during the playoffs and even when they were going up against Golden State, what were we saying about them. You know what we were saying? Damn, they need a number one option. They need a go-to guy.

They need a go-to-it-a-go-to. This is my definition of a number one guy. Everybody know what's going to do. What you're going to do, and they know whose hands the ball is going to be in. Can't do anything about it And the damn thing You could do about it

Because he's like This is me Let me just give me the damn ball Like KD did in the final When Steph and Clay was struggling I think it was game four Something like give me the damn ball Just give it to me

Let me close this out That is what you are looking for This is basketball The same football Where you got 11 guys on the field You need somebody to block You know what I'm saying You need to run the right route

You need to hope that your quarterback ain't going to get sacked too early Or whatever No no no This is basketball At the end of the day, here's the ball. Take me there. And Houston clearly did not have that.

So you go out and you get Kevin Durant, one of the greatest players to have ever played the game, who is a scorer, a professional scorer, a scoring machine. It's unstoppable. It comes seven feet with a seven-six wing span, mid-range, three-point game, open court, free throw. it don't matter whatever way you need him to score he can do it with relative ease it's who he is and then you get to Houston and all of a sudden we don't see that uh-uh no no no no no no no no no no

that's exactly what we expect to see that's exactly why you're there does he finish top 10 if you if he gets it done all i think so i don't listen or even if he doesn't to me i view kevin durand as a top 10 player of all time i always have you know people say like when they bring up let's say for example hypothetically, if somebody would have bring up Larry Bird. This is me with a Larry Bird. I ain't picking nobody over him in the last two minutes. Maybe Jordan, maybe, but Bird was money. You're saying, with his marksmanship and his IQ, the brother was special.

But I take into account who you are for over a 48-minute period and what you bring on a night-in, night-out basis because of your overall. skill set. And I don't view this game as definitively pointing to me 10 dudes that you can pick over Kevin Durant. I think

it's insulting, you know, for people to act like, oh my goodness, why would you think about Kevin Durant? I'm like, are you watching basketball? Are you watching what this man has done? What this man does with a basketball on the offensive side of the ball? The brother's special. And I would put him top 10. But

with that being said, You can't go to Houston and fizzle. Can that happen? And you AD, the pressure's on him because of Luca. Because Luca's not going away. So you have to make sure you are what you were in the first half of your first game as a Dallas Maverick when you was going, you were like, this is my house.

I'm here. You were saying that. Okay, then you got hurt. That's fine. Injuries happen. But your game has to be on that level because Luca is not going away. So on the AD front, obviously, Kyrie may miss most, if not all of this next season coming up.

Do they get to use that as an excuse? Do you feel like this Mazz Squad can still be a top-tier team? No, they get to use it as an excuse if Kyrie isn't there. But I think that Kyrie is going to be back after January or after All-Star break. That's what I'm anticipating. That's what I've been told to anticipate that Kyrie could come back. Now, obviously, coming back from his injury, he's not going to be himself initially, and we get all of that.

But the brother's still special. And his game isn't predicated on his athleticism. His ball handling and shot-making ability is what saves the day for Kyrie Irvin. And so he can come back. See, if somebody like Russell Westbrook had that kind of injury, it's over. Because his athleticism is what carries the day for him to this very day. That's not the case for Kyrie Irvin. It's two different things.

So let's talk a little bit. a little bit about the Thunder, won the first chip of franchise history. Yep. Locked up SGA, Jaylon Williams, and Chet Homer, all the long-term deals. But we've seen the way this new CBA, second apron in particular, has impacted a lot of teams. You talk about a team like the Celtics, fire sell, the teams around the league. But do you think the Thunder are the league's next dynasty or has the current CBA effectively

I think they have a chance to be because of all the draft capital that they have? All the things that they've collected throughout the years with all the trades that they've made. got so many assets. They don't have to dip. You know, when you see a guy like Wallace, he might be causing Wallace, he might be gone, you know, because they want to take care of their back court. You get that. Okay. One of their bigs may end up being gone, not both of them, but Holgrammer Hartstein, one or the other. There isn't a single hole they can't fill because they have the draft capital to either go out and draft somebody or the draft capital to give somebody else in favor of a trade because some teams are desperate for the draft

capital because they don't have it. So no matter what way you slice it, I'm not saying it's going to happen, but if there is a team that has the potential to be a dynasty in the NBA, it is Oklahoma City because that backcourt ain't going nowhere and on top

it all, neither is San Presti. So in your opinion, which teams pose the biggest threat to stop in the thunder from repeating this season? I think I view Dallas, I view Dallas as a preeminent. a threat because they've always had

O'KC's number. If you look at them even last year, when Luca was down, they still be, Oklahoma City running through everybody, except Dallas. They run into Dallas without Luca, Dallas beat them. They run into Dallas with Kyrie. Dallas beats them. This is what

they do. For some reason, Dallas has their number, and they know how to play against them. And I think that because of that reality, you cannot dismiss the Dallas Maver's is being that threat. But again, it's asking a lot for both

Kai Rie and AD to be healthy. I would not underestimate Houston because of KD. Because Oklahoma City, I look at Oklahoma City's defense, big time, stellar. They have no answer for KD. No answer. No answer. And they've

gone through these droughts, these scoring drops, but their defense saves the day. Your defense ain't saving the day against KD. It's not happening. It's not happen. It's not happen. If nothing else, that brother, he's good for 25. He's good for 25. It's not a problem for him at all.

Well, let's stay in Texas. I'll talk a little bit about Wimby. Saw a sophomore season shortened with the blood clot, but been training with Showell and Munks in summer. Kevin Garnett, you know, two different sides of the spectrum, putting that work in. How much of a leak do you expect Wemby to make in year three? Well, he's the future.

I mean, you can't teach seven feet five. I mean, it was one of the most embarrassing interviews I ever had to do because I interviewed him the day he was drafted and I was here. And I was a damn belly for crying out. It's embarrassing. You know, I'm like, damn. This is a legitimate seven feet five with a Jay. Let's call it what it is.

And so obviously having De Aaron Fox, I think goes a long way with some of the other pieces that they have. I like San Antonio a lot. I expect them to make the playoffs this year. And Wimby being in that lineup, I mean, he's hell to deal with, so you can't rule out anything. But again, when you look at Dallas and their size and you look at Houston, now having KD, there are answers to that puzzle. And I think those two teams have it. Oh, Texas is going to be a hell of a battle down there.

That's right. Absolutely. What do you think about the east this year? The east? Yeah, with Boston being down, like a lot of things being down. I think it's going to come down to the Knicks in Cleveland. Nixon, Cleveland. Boston doesn't have Tatum. Milwaukee doesn't have Lillard.

Indiana doesn't have Halliburton, and Miles Turner went to Milwaukee. Orlando's on a come up. I like the Desmond Bain pickup, and I love Ben Quiro. I think that he's special, and he's coming, but they're not there yet. I don't like the fact that Tib's going.

I don't think Tibbs deserve to be fired, but in the same breath, stubbornness from McKell Bridges, who's known for playing practically every game, never says anything. Suddenly it's saying, yo, we need rest. I think that that was a huge, huge deal with Tips

because that was the player saying he's not listening. He's not listening. And remember, they had just given them a three-year contract extension. So for them to make that shift, that clearly came from up top because they weren't prepared for him to be going, And that's James Dolan saying, get rid of him. That's what that was.

So you got Mike Brown now, and we forget that he's the coach of the year, that he's coached the number one offense. He knows a thing or two about what he's doing on the offensive side of the ball, that he was an assistant for years in Golden State under Steve Kerr. That never hurt you because Steve Kerr is one of the best ever. So I look at it from that standpoint, and I say, okay, New York Knicks with Brunson and Kat and all those guys, they could be fine. And my issue with the Knicks is like cat, face in the basket, he's a sniper.

Who is back to the basket, it doesn't look good. That's not his game. That's not his game. Again, they get low on them. And they start messing with his legs and his knees and it's compromised. I don't think that's, I don't think that's a strength of his. I think you need another bona fide scorer if you're the New York Knicks. Cleveland has all the pieces.

They just choked in the playoffs. They just didn't show up. There's no... This is where... And I'm a Donovan Mitchell fan. We got a Cavs fan here. I'm a Donovan Mitchell fan. But let me tell you something.

When it comes to his teammates, there's absolutely positively no excuse. And I don't care what anybody says. There's no excuse. You cannot be injured and can't play game two, but you can play game three. If you could play game three, that means you could have played a game too

all right you don't give away playoff games I mean it was like three or four starters that were not available for a game in the playoffs inexcusable and so I just think that the Knicks have a chance to come out of the east but I think

Cleveland in terms of their roster I think they should be the favorites you like Detroit I do like Detroit I do like and I think they're coming and I think they're coming I really, really do. They're one piece away. Yeah, I think so.

I think so. You know, I like them. I really do. Cunningham, brother can ball, smooth. He can do some things. They're well, coached by bigger staff as well. But I like some of their pieces. I'm not going to underage it.

I wouldn't sleep on Detroit. Let's talk about the state of the league real quick. Past few years, we've seen several teams sell the new majority owners or ownership groups. Maths, Sun, Celtics, Lakers, most recently the Blazers. So NBA Board of Governors recently unanimously approved the Celtic sale for a record 6.1 billion, most for any sports franchise. In history, that'll be eclipsed by the Lakers sale,

which is finalized at a $10 billion valuation. But how will all of these teams selling impact the state of the league moving forward? It depends on the owner. You got to remember that when you buy a franchise like the Lakers, or the Boston Celtics that's collateral for your ass you know you're good you can borrow from anything

you don't have to spend your money ever again you know because you know you go to get loans you go to get financing and you have this brand as collateral that goes a long long way towards facilitating anything that you want to do and I think that what I like about it

the new owners for the Lakers is that this cat clearly has deep pockets that to rival Steve Ballmer with the Los Angeles Clippers. I like that kind of thing. You know, I appreciate Jeannie Bus, who's been great, and she's still going to be running things for the Lakers, and I get it, because we don't want her to go away

because she's a treasure to the game, but in the same breath, it's like financially it seemed like a mom and pop shop compared to a lot of other teams in the league, and that's no longer the case. And because that's no longer the case, who knows what the Lakers are going to be able to do. You got a cap that you have to honor and what have you. But there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of things that you can do when your franchisees value that that enormous number.

And I think that the Lakers being in that position is definitely good for the league because it gives the sense that their relevancy won't dip. And as long as their relevancy, that of them, the NICs, Boston to a lesser degree, I think when you have those teams, you know, That's a big, big deal for the league and a big benefit. Gil has been saying that. It's true. But also just now a new TV deal, 11 year, $77 billion deal. A lot of different moving parts, obviously inside the NBA coming over to ESPN, not really certain what that's going to look like, but you got NBC, Amazon, some other players in the game. Just how do you think this new TV deal, you know, you got MJ coming back in some capacity?

I'm very happy about that. NBC, just the state of league, future of the league now under this new TV tax deal. Look, the world has transitioned from linear to streaming. So Amazon being a part of it is a plus. It's a necessary transition into that world. So there's nothing to knock. There's nothing to knock about that. NBC had the NBA package for years.

They got Michael Jordan because executives that are still there were there where Michael Jordan was playing. And that was a big, that was a very, very big deal. And I think that when you're the greatest player that I believe in the history of the game, your voice needs to be heard. I'm mad that magic ain't talking more about the NBA. Magic Johnson. I appreciate you go ahead and own the Dodgers and go ahead and own a piece of the commanders. But don't forget some damn basketball now. I mean, this is who you are.

You know this like the back of your hand. We want to hear from people like that. And so I think it's good. The money that's out there, sure. not go get it to the victors go to spoils you know it's going to be um nbc ABC ABC and ESPN of course Amazon I mean I think it's a great great thing and I'm going to love seeing what all of these teams what all of these networks do with their telecasts I love the fact that mellows mellow's going to be over there um you know I'm looking at uh eudonis hastam who did a phenomenal job

for us on the ESPN I'm mad he's gone he's over there Amazon now is going to be, I'm going to really, really enjoy watching him. T-Mack is over there as well. I think it's NBC or Amazon, I remember correctly, but I think, I know T-Max's going to do a hell of a job. But inside the NBA coming to ESPN is a plus for us. I was, I couldn't tell you how happy I was. I mean, I was ecstatic because all of them are my boys, number one.

And number two, damn it, you got to sit through a lot of them damn games. I don't feel like doing that anymore. Not that long. I don't mind doing it, but not as long as I was doing it. So I'm happy to see them on board because me personally, I appreciate T&T and the great work they did, dedicating themselves to basketball all along. But it's a different animal when you come to ESPN because that's a 24-7 sports network. You know, I'm watching TNT, and then after the show is over, I'm watching Law & Order.

You know? Well, in ESPN, it's sports all day, every day. And I expect them to give me a lot of ammunition to talk about on first take to follow them on and stuff like that. So I'm very happy about that. And they know if they needed me. I'll be there. Well, we'll be seeing you inside the NBA. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I know that it's in my contract to participate in that. And Monday night football, Monday night countdown for the NFL every, but not every week.

You know, because I got a lot of my plate as you are ticked at the top of the show owning my own YouTube channel, got two radio shows plus first take. So I got my own stuff that I don't need that. I'm good. But if they call, I'm a team player and I'll make sure I'm there. So two more questions for you.

Now you've got to take off soon, but what advice would you give to someone who wants to be the next, Stephen A? Be ready to put in the work and don't get caught up in the sizzle if you're not going to be caught up in a grind. I grind all the time. always working for better or worse um i i'm not lazy and i don't like lazy people around me um

you got to be about the work you got to have people it could be y'all or anybody else talking about me it can never be he ain't working that's not a good thing to be said about you and and i think people need to understand that a lot of times they look and you know they see you on the air they don't realize all the studying that you did before you got on the air i got game to watch. I got articles to read. I got commentary to study and think back, you know, and perspectives to explore, to decide what I want to talk about, what I don't want to talk about, and I have to do this every day. And you also got to have thick skin and understand and be adult enough to decipher the difference of somebody constructively criticizing what you said

and somebody criticizing you. If somebody's criticizing what you, if somebody's criticizing what you said or take no I don't agree with that I don't know what the hell he was thinking about here's why there's absolutely nothing wrong with that now if they decide he ain't he ain't shit I don't like him but oh whoa whoa whoa where that come from has nothing to do what what we're talking about as long as somebody because you feed dialogues I know that I can be clickbait so I know folks are going to talk about me I don't care it doesn't bother me what I care about is if you're lying on purpose and you're getting personal those are the things if you ain't and you're not getting personal,

I'm fine. It's like, please, you got to do you. And if you can't take that, you don't belong in this business. And you got to know that. You got to be able to take it, not be insulted. You got to be somebody

that's going like to hear you. You got a point. She got a point. I get it. I understand it. That's what adults do. And in this industry now more than ever, it's more important than ever to be an adult

because there's so much temptation to get belligerent. There's so much temptation to just lose yourself and to just go at people because, first of all, it can be profitable in certain respects, but also a lot of people just want to unleash and want to say what they have to say or whatever, but it could also get you in trouble because somebody's always watching. Always remember this about business. Business is always looking to do business. And they're always looking for people to do business with. And what you want to do is not minimize your opportunities to do business because you get caught up in bullshit

because the people that's full of shit want you to get caught up in the bullshit so you could be down at the bottom where they are. You don't want to get caught up in that and I try not to. I tell Gil that every single day. I know. I know I'll be trying to stay in the house.

I'd be trying to stay away from Parliament Brown, man. I just keep swimming back down there, man. I got my combat boots on though so I can come back out a little bit sometimes. And not only that, you've got to have confidence and a belief in yourself where, especially in the case of guilt, when you're talking about Kwame Brown, I mean, my God.

If anybody could slice and dice them, it's guilt. Why? Well, I know. I'm saying, knowing that you can should be enough. Yeah. But every now and then, I mean, I can't front. I mean, we've seen me do it. Every now and then somebody get on my nerves.

It's like, I waited 10 years, 11 years, 12 years, 12 years, and then I'm like, you know what? I'm sick and tired. You know, let me, yeah, so that happens, but that should be rare. That should be rare, because, you know, you got bigger fish to fry. I know it doesn't matter what I've achieved. To me, I'm after so much more. And so my attitude is I'm just getting started.

I'm not stopping. I'm not going to let these cats get in my way. And I remember this happened to me. This is a true story. So it's 2000, it's 2005. Detroit Pistons were playing the San Antonio Spurs. I was in San Antonio. And I had something tragic happen within my family.

And I had just got the news like two minutes before I got on sports center. And these people were heckling me, heckling me, heckling me, because I had picked San Antonio to Loser Series and they were heckling me big time. and somebody says something to me and I turned around like fuck you and they said we got them because there were ABC executives around me when I did it that's not good that's not a good look but luckily I had a good enough relationship with the boss that the boss knew what had happened and he saw me and he came over to me and he wrapped his arms around me he said go home go home and be with your family because he knew

I was rattled you see what I'm saying somebody else could have deemed that a fireable offense but he didn't do that because he knew what had happened and I had a close enough relationship with them where that wasn't held against me but they didn't care They didn't know in fairness to the fans But they didn't care either If I had got fired that day Nobody's gonna lose sleep over it You lose this show tomorrow

You lose it, you lose it Nobody's gonna care Very few people that is You know, I lose my career They might throw a parade I know this So it's like I react to What I want to react to

I react to. I react to What I feel compelled to react to If I so choose but I do so recognizing all the pros and the cons because they're not worth me taking care of what I need to take care of. Last question for you. You've been in the game over 30 years. King of sports media, as it stands right now,

I think nobody can dispute or argue that. But how much longer do you want to be the king of sports media? I lead that king stuff to somebody else. I just do the work. I'm trying to be successful. I'm trying to make sure that whatever I touch turns to gold per se. I'm in the best shape that I've been in in 25 years. You know, I'm healthy, I'm feeling great.

I've been real blessed. I think I got another 15 years or so at this. And I'm 57. You all remember, Mike Wilbon, we don't give enough credit what creditors do. Mike Wilbon is approaching 70 years of age. Tony Kornheiser is at 80. PTI has been the number one show. We're number one in the mornings.

PTI is number one, period, for 20 plus years. And they ain't stopping. Now, they're on for half hour, we're on for two hours and all of that, other stuff. But those are friends of mine who, Mike Wilbon, and Tony Cornice have been mentors to me. I love them dearly. Listen, in this day and age, you take care of yourself.

you don't have to stop because the birth certificate says 65, 70 or whatever I just told you two guys one guy's at 80 you know Mike Wilborn is approaching 70. Skip Bayless it's over 70 I mean you don't

have to stop if you take care of yourself and you got the energy and the knowledge and the communication skills or whatever I could be doing this for the next 20 years so but the thing about me is that I'm not interested in just sports so I don't I don't mind talking politics.

I don't mind when people got me as a presidential candidate or whatever. I have no desire to be a politician, but I do have a desire to be on the debate stage against those politicians. See, that's where the hard part is, because again, I swear to you, I have no desire. I ain't trying to give up my money. I ain't trying to change my life and be an elected official.

But I cannot tell you, I can't think of anything, anything that I want more. that I want more than to possibly be on a debate stage for the presidency against those politicians with the shit that they have done and the way I know I would come at it. Like, y'all wouldn't see me for weeks. I'd be hunkered down trying to know every issue

because I'm not worried about my ability to communicate my message once I know what I'm talking about. But I don't know politics like that. I know some issues. I read. I edify. You know, I make sure that I have an eye. idea of current events and what's going on,

but I'm not an expert, not an officianto, but if I knew what they knew, in terms of the info, and you talk to me about, I'm going to be on stage for the Democratic nominee for the presidency of the United States against whomever candidates,

man, you see a different animal, bro. You'd see me like you never saw it. I don't give a damn what you've seen me doing on a debate stage in a podcast or a podcast, or a sports show, whatever, it would be nothing compared to what I would be ready for that night.

I would consider that the biggest moment of my entire life. That is what, I mean, don't get me wrong. Seems like you foreshadowing. But what I'm saying is, but here's the thing, I don't want to leave, I don't want to leave sports. I certainly ain't giving up this money.

You're going to say all of that stuff. All of that's true. But the reason I bring it up, is because I just learned last week, I don't have to give up anything for that first debate. I said, what? Really? I don't? They said, no.

Only when it goes deeper, then you got to make a decision. But prior to that, that first debate, and I'm like, oh, they don't start it something good. I mean, I don't know what I'm going to do. So it's stuff like that, and doing that social commentary, politics, and all of that stuff has actually made doing sports fun, more fun.

Because when you do it for as long as I've done it, you know, it gets to a point where it's the same-o-same-o. It's not that way for me because I'm always doing something different every single day. So because of that, to go to the sports, I'm hanging with my peeps. We talk in sports. This is what we're doing. And then, okay, that's finished. Now I got to do this.

So I'm constantly revved up and excited about something that I'm doing because I feel like I'm doing something new every day. Stephen, I appreciate you. Yeah, man. Taking time out of your schedule to pull up. to the show. Always a pleasure to have you on this couch. It's some wisdom and knowledge. Happy to be here for y'all, man.

Proud of y'all. Hopefully everybody on this couch and their personal beef, we can figure these things all out, but understand if we cannot. But this has been another episode of Gills Arena presented by Underdog Whoa! We'll see y'all phone!