Gil's Arena - Tracy McGrady GETS REAL On His NBA Legacy & Kobe Comparisons

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

Tracy McGrady GETS REAL On His NBA Legacy & Kobe Bryant Comparisons as the NBA Legend joins Gilbert Arenas & The Gil's Arena Crew to break down his incredible NBA Career, bringing back ABCD Camp with Adidas and setting the record straight on his comments surrounding Kobe Bryant that shattered Gil's Arena earlier this summer. T-Mac tells Gilbert Arenas about his lightening fast journey from the hood to the top of the NBA where he dominated as an All NBA Player for the Orlando Magic & Toronto Raptors and tells legendary stories of his time facing off with giants of the game like Michael Jordan & LeBron James. He then battles with Swaggy P over his comments that he would have won just as many rings as Kobe Bryant had he played with Shaquille O'Neal and debate if Kobe could have been just as successful if he swapped careers with LeBron. Finally, T-Mac breaks down his future plans including NBA on NBC, The OBL and ABCD Camp and Gil tells a legendary story about playing in China alongside Tracy. Please like and subscribe!!! The Arena premieres every Monday, Tuesday and Thursday at 11:30am PT / 2:30pm ET. Sign up for Underdog HERE with promo code GIL and play $5 to get $50 Bonus Cash: https://play.underdogfantasy.com/p-gi... SUBSCRIBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAvj... Join the Underdog discord for access to exclusive giveaways and promos! https://discord.gg/underdog Must be 18+ (19+ in AL, NE; 19+ in CO for some games; 21+ in AZ & MA) and present in a state where Underdog Fantasy operates. Terms apply. Concerned with your play? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit www.ncpgambling.org; NY: Call the 24/7 HOPEline at 1-877-8-HOPENY or Text HOPENY (467369) 00:00 Welcome To Gil’s Arena T-Mac01:43 How T-Mac Helped Create Gil’s Arena02:32 How T-Mac & The Crew Got Their Nicknames05:51 Why Penny Is Gil & T-Mac’s Favorite Player11:50 How T-Mac’s Life Changed After ABCD Camp20:04 Tracy’s Transition To The NBA30:13 T-Mac Battles Swaggy Over His Kobe Comments55:41 T-Mac on Joining NBA on NBC1:00:50 How It Felt To Play Against Jordan1:10:40 Gil On His Legendary Trip To China With T-Mac1:14:11 T-Mac Is Bringing Back ABCD Camp With Adidas1:20:17 How It Felt To Match Up With Kobe1:29:22 T-Mac On Creating The OBL1:36:21 The Best Comparison To T-Mac In Today’s Game1:40:21 Could LeBron Play The Same Style As Kobe? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to Gil's Arena, presented by Underdog Woo-W-W-W-W! Looking a little different in here, Gil. You got a little footballish. You got a carpet. New graphics? Got some money, just. We start talking football, money come in. They write back on the basketball.

But this is Gil's Arena presented by Underdog Woo-Woo. As always, we got the legend Gilbert Arena is here with us. We got NBA champion of the world Swaggy Pete Nick Young in the building. Okay, we still got it. And we got a special guest making his first appearance on this arena, one of the greatest bucket getters in the history of basketball. His jumper was buttery, his dunks iconic, his scoring ability elite. 13 points in 33 seconds, he did that.

Scoring champs, him got two of those. Seven-time All-Star, seven-time All-N-BBA selection. Nate Smith Hall of Famer, internationally known. nationally recognized, locally respected. His birth certificate says Tracy, Lamar McGradie, Jr. But you know him better as Team Mac. Team Mac, welcome to Gills Arena, presented by Underdog.

Whoa. It's a pleasure. My boy, Gilles, doing some big things, right? Hey, man, he's doing some big things. And we're going to talk about all that in just a second, but if you want to get your bread right, download the Underdog Gap, use promo code, Gil, get up to $1,000 in bonus,

plus a special. Pick them. And if you can't watch the show with us on YouTube, We have audio version available on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. So, we're talking about it before the show. But Team Mac, you actually helped Bill Gil's Arena presented by Underdog. Whoop. Gil, you want to go ahead and break down how Team Mac is partly responsible for us having Gil's Arena?

When we was on Fubo and we did the NBA championship watch party. Okay. We did that watch party. It was the white couch facing this. Yeah. And a couple months later, I went back and watched all the views on and then watched listen to the comments and I was like that's it I need to create

a show that has four of us and we just talk sports we don't have to worry about gas so that's where it started it starts on that episode man go to the comments listen to the people listen to the people so underdog has a check for you actually

we want to get the oversight we want to get the oversaw do I get residual do I get residual underdog cut the check the check so we got a lot to talk about but something I just want to to ask you first.

So T-Mack, I'm going to just keep it real. So much like Gilbert, Tracy is a name that may not initially garnered the appropriate amount of respect from opposing players. Like somebody's like, are you guarding Gilbert? I'm just saying, you guard Gilbert, you're guarding Tracy. I'm going to say, you know, I got a guard trait. But growing up, did you feel any extra motivation to have to ball out due to the perceived lack of respect for your name?

When you're saying growing up, are you talking about when I was a jet? Younger. So just, you know, because I was, no, no, no, because I was never called Tracy. Okay, you know, where I came from. Oh, there's always TMAC. Yeah, I mean, well, you can come from the hood, though. You know, you got a nickname. You got to get one.

You know what I'm saying? And it wasn't TMAC. Everybody called my dad that. So, it was worse. We get some new inside stuff. I'm going to see. It's everything I researched that you've been called TMAC since you were little, but what was the first event?

We're growing now. I'm a grown man. So, but, so my mama, my mom, my, all my family called me punkin. My nickname is pumpkin. Okay. Okay. You're from Florida? Yeah.

They call, I'm punking. Damn. My boys around call me head, right? So. Punking head. Punking head. Right. So family is punking, my boys is head.

Yeah. So when the T-MAC take over and become your staple? And at least. You just got to pause that. Pumpkin head. That's not. No, he said, my boys is head. Calls.

They call him. Pause me. Calls me. calls me here. But no, so when I got to the league, you know, obviously, um, first and last name, you know, with T-Mack and my dad is what is called T-Mack

because I'm a junior. But that's when I got the name. You know, they give you a nickname with you in the league. Okay, okay, okay, for sure. I only certain people get nicknames now. I don't think like a nickname. Waggie, Hibachi, T-Mack? Yeah.

Merely a host? But you give you your, that's, you get you yours, too. Are you mine? We both gave us. You got yourself Swaggy? Yes. When?

God did it. God did it. God did that. God did that. I didn't do it. I didn't get myself Agent Zero. When you started being called Swaggy Pee? It was in the book of Genesis.

This was a long time ago. This guy. When he came to L.A. Yeah. Around that time. You know, what did you bring when he came to L.A.? For the Lakers. Oh, okay.

Swaggy P. Not Waggie E. The people gave me Agent Zero, because I was in D.C. So you're going by Agent Zero or Hobocci? Which one you... Oh, yeah, I stole that one. I'm talking about Agent Zero. You stole Hobotia?

That came from D.C. because it was MySpace. Because I had all the women on it. And I called them Secret Service. My Secret Service had the bad ones in there. Oh, my God, dog. Like Agent Zero. Top 32? How is...

It was like... No, it was 32. Okay. Hey, I had them all in there. It was like a big-ass wish. Savage. Just a wish list. Didn't know nothing of them.

Didn't know none of them. But one or two. One of the time. 32 was all. It was all. It was all. All right. Well, let's talk some actual basketball.

So you and Gil both have a mutual appreciation, admiration for Penny Hardaway. So, Gil, you weren't number 25 in high school because that's the number Penny more in college. Team Mac, you said Penny is your favorite player. You weren't number one because of him. But how much influence did Penny Hardaway have on your game and basketball culture as a whole? I think growing up, you know, watching basketball is what I did. I was a sports head.

I watched baseball, watch basketball, watch football. But I gravitated more so to basketball because, you know, Michael Jordan, the stars at that time. And I was a Pippin fan. I was a Magic Johnson fan. I like big guards. But when Penny came to Orlando, and I was watching him at Memphis State, but when he came to Orlando, growing up 30 minutes from there right this is my favorite team at this time I'm in high school and I identified right away with his skill set his personality everything just quiet laid back

quiet killer and to see how he moved and how he played on the court boy it was like poetry in motion you know I mean so smooth the IQ the vision the passing ability being able to score inside outside left hand right hand left shoulder left shoulder the right, so everything you wanted out of a basketball player, like, he was the prototype. Yeah, I see you over there, cheese? Now, that is, they was, yeah, not because it was my first superstar, right? I didn't, like, I was just getting into basketball, like, watching it all time. So my dad was a Michael Jordan fan, so he's bulls, everything in the house was red and black.

Like, that was it. It was just red and black. And then he's forcing me to watch the draft. Yeah. So, you know, he just. What year? Every year. No, the year Penny came here.

Okay. So I'm just sitting there, and then they showed the highlight. Woke you up. Stood out. Like, who is this? Stood out. Like, yo, what is this? Who is this?

Like, like, Anthony, okay, Anthony? So when to school? Like, yo, did you see the dude from Memphis? Anthony Hardaway? He was like, oh, my God. That's our favorite player. Yeah. All right, that's our favorite player.

And that's how it went. Then I became a Orlando fan. Oh, he was so beautiful. People don't understand, bro. He was cold. This dude was so good. And he was so good that people think he was in his prime at that time. That's how nice he was.

He was going up against, he was only second, 30-year-old player going up against MJ and giving him work. Scotty told me himself, he said, he never got hurt, but he would have been one of the greatest. So he was tough cover. Very tough cover. And a cerebral player, like, he was smartest shit on the basketball. Yeah, he was very smart. Yeah. He said about 30 minutes away from Orlando going up.

Do you remember the first time you got to? See Penny play live? Yeah. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. So I had declared for the NBA already. And my team that I had with me had some connections with Penny's with his agency. So it was in the playoffs.

They were playing Miami Heat at that time. And I went to the playoff game and I think he dropped 42 that night. Brough, he was amazing, bro. And that even like solidified even more. of why he was my favorite player. And, like, that was my Michael Jordan, right, when I seen that. So after the game, my guys came to me, like, we got a surprise for you. So we hop in the truck and we're driving, but we pull up in the neighborhood,

we go to this guard shack, and we go in, driving in this neighborhood, these big-ass cribs. Mind you, I ain't seen no shit like this. 17, 18 years old, 17, 18 years old. So I'm looking around like, damn, bro. Got out, walked up to the door, ring the doorbell. Guess who opened the door? Penny.

Brough, I about lost my mind. Like, even to this day as a grown man that had an impact on me for my whole career of just being there, seeing him, drop 42, going to his house, chilling with him afterwards, had the biggest impact on me.

You know, moving forward in my career. And that's the reason I had one in Orlando. And I was, like, I told Otis, I said, man, I got to do it, man. Just let me get the jersey. So I wore one just so I can have it. Yeah. I was like, I ain't worth shit no more. Let me get this hero.

What year are you in when you're there? Huh? Where year were you in? Yeah, he was on a bench. He was at. He wasn't near then, but he wasn't there, but he wasn't near. You were teeted? Was it not?

No, man. It was 8, 9. It was right after the gun stuff. You came in, what? Oh, 2001. That's when you left all your stuff for, well. Yeah, this was a, it was Turkle, me, Turkuluk, and Jason Richardson came. So this had to be?

That was year, year, 10? 10? Yeah, because I don't think they gave me. 10, 11? 9, it was 9. It was 9th year because the 10th year. They played in a chip that year? No, no, no.

They played the chip next year. No, no, no. They went to the chip. before I came. Okay, okay. So when I came out of there, Lakers, when the Lakers went back to the buck, no. No, that's your...

So they had already went to the chip before you got... Yeah, they went to the chip before. You had to be there in, 08. No, after that. No, they went in 2009, right? It was 10. I was 2010. Yeah, 2009-10.

Today, I was 2010. Yeah, right after that. So, Rashulow Lewis. Cove won the chip in 9 against Orlando, right? Yeah, so I came, so mine would have been 1011. Okay. Right?

Yeah. 1011. The lock, whatever the lockout was. So the year that, 1011, yeah. 1011 was the lockout? No, 2011 was the lockout. It was at there. So, okay, so 1011 was my year because I got amissed.

Right before the lockout. Yeah, I got, I got amissed for the lockout. All right, so Tim, let's talk a little bit about you. Obviously, people familiar with your story, but for me, I'm always just impressed, like, trying to put myself in your mind back in the days. But less than a year between 1996 and 97, you went from an unknown hooper to the ninth overall pick in the NBA draft. Under the radar from most of your high school career playing at Auburndale out in Florida, your first three seasons. Then you go to ABCD camp, 1996. Turn it out, going from the lowest ranked player at the camp.

I think you had to wear jersey number 175. So for all those who have been to basketball camps, it's just not a good feeling when you got anything over the traditional numbers. Once they start getting to the hundreds. 175. But showed up 175, left that camp. Camp, number one player in the country, eventual national player of the year, your senior season at Mount Zion. So I wonder how much of life changed for you during and after ABCD camp? You got to think, man.

I've never been to a camp, ever, right? I was playing spring football at the time. I was about to be the quarterback. My first time playing football in high school. I played growing up when I got to high school was just strictly basketball and baseball. football. So I'm out playing spring football. I get out of practice one day. A dude comes to my school and he pulls me to the side. It was like, I want to invite you to the Adidas camp. I didn't know what it was. You know what I mean? So he's like, I got an opportunity for you to go to this

Adidas camp, but you got to stop playing football. Stop playing football. Just to go to a camp. Of course, there was some more shit behind that. of what was going to happen he was affiliated with adidas doing some consultant work with them so i ended up quitting football probably about three four weeks later i get him about eight boxes at my house full of adidas shit i'm like oh right so i'm loaded up in the hood eight boxes of adidas so get to the camp bro and all i'm hearing about is lamar oldham six 10 point guard and you know in this time you're the tallest player on the team they're making you the center bro so i i can't fathom hearing somebody 610 and running a point i need to see this motherfucker man i got to see him because i'm i'm seeing like albin jones around my area 7 foot dunking on motherfuckers i can't see a 610 point guard i get to the camp first day i'm about to get in the fight with new york niggas on the bus right because they don't know who I am.

Niggas bro talking greasy. Ah, nigger, you just a number what you doing here? You know I do. Y'all cast it. I can't say anything bro. I got to keep my cool or I'm going home. So

Sonny got wind of what was going on. Pulled me off the bus. Right? Get on another bus. We get to the camp. My first day, I'm playing against the morgue. Oh, my God. Incredible skill set.

He said, yeah, he's the real fucking deal. So, of course, we go through this camp. I'm the best player in the camp. Get out of there. Month later, Trace McGrady, NBA prospect. I was shit before this. Nobody. Bro, you know how crazy it is to go from, you've been in the hood, playing.

And nobody don't know who you are outside of that. And then a few months later, you're an NBA prospect. My head was spinning. I was, is this real? Number one player comes, I got that title on me. So the whole fucking season, I'm the number one player in the country. Now I'm going up against Lamar Odom. I'm going up against Barron Davis.

I'm going up against the Collins twins. I'm going up against all these players, man. And I'm like, I'm really fucking good, bro. I'm really close. In the championship in Vegas. Yes, that was, we played against them, they might hear. High school. Oh, so Harvard Westlake?

You played Harvard Wesley? Yes, bro. And smashed them. Damn, I should have been number one pick two. And smashed them. I gave them like, holy! Harvard Westlake. That was a different, Harvard Westlady.

No, it was the same one. In Las Vegas. No, listen, they was a monster, they were monsters, bro. They was good as hell. They worked so well together. Yes. But we ended up smashing them in that game. I played Baron Davis.

in that tournament as well. He was with Crossroads. Well, yeah, man, it was like in that summer from the camp which was like, what, July? And then my whole senior year was like, I was a millionaire, bro. So right after your camp,

the schedule changed for your school because I know they didn't have them teams on it. That's what I'm saying. But you end up, you're in a transfer, right? Everybody was after them. To Mount Zion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I ended up transferring to Mount Zion.

We had like 11 D1 players on there. Like we had a suck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So my Zion came with that. See, I had to play against Harvard Westlake here. Yeah. So my, I was the center with Grant High School.

It was different. It was like, I just had Jewish, Jewish situations. No way you want. No way you want. You got four. Hell no. Okay. Oh, no.

Okay. We got smacked all of bedatica. Come on. Good. They was good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I played against him. I played against him. Dominguez I think was Tyson Chaloner? No, that was after

Tycheon Prince Tashon and Jason is familiar No, you were not My senior Tyson is like a year behind me right He might have been young Duh, he came out with one No, no no

No, because I was a sophomore Tashar, was a sophomore Tashar, was it Tashar? You played Tashon you played Kenny Bruner Kenny Bruner, yep Jason John Thompson Jason Tomlin Johnson, Thompson.

James. Yeah, he was on there? Yeah, left hand. He ended up playing quarterback at, uh... Wow. USC, right? No, UNLV. Didn't he go to...

I mean, he might have started at S.A. Yeah, he... Let me pull it up. Yeah. Yeah. Now, Cali had some talent then, man. Because Tyson got back in, what, 2000, right? 2001.

Yeah, he, so he started as he transferred. But he went to college, though, didn't he? No. No, he came straight to the league. When he was in eighth grade, he said he ain't going to college, so don't send him shit. I was like that. Hey, and another one on the side, Tyson just showed up one day out here. He came in my side here.

Okay. He just showed up in L.A. one day. Like, who the hell is this big ass? Like, where he came from? He was a beast on the defense, man. With the bow cut. Listen, bro. When he was with Chris Paul in fucking New Orleans?

Yeah. Tyson and Chris Paul and that. And David Weston? Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Did you go to ABCD? No. I didn't know what it was.

I got the envelope by I didn't go. And I got the night. Nick, you came out with. No, when you came out, man, I'm straight from the hood. I didn't want to go to that shit. I didn't want to leave L.A. You played in a house. I didn't want to go to that shit.

I'm like, man. Straight to pump camp. You already go. What year you came out, Dick? 2007. Oh, it was gone. Yeah, it was gone. Yeah, it was gone.

You see, you see how you just lied? No, it wasn't gone. It was gone. It was no more. I was in school in 2003. I came out. Yeah, 2006, 2006 was the last year. 02, 03, 04.

06 was the last year. Yeah, but you're still high school at that point. Yeah, for sure. I didn't get it. I didn't get one bucket in ABCD. I got hurt, so it came down the court, got hurt. You went? I'm a damn.

You went? Yeah, I'm the nigger that stole all the PlayStation's. And you still didn't get hurt. I got hurt, I'm leaving with something. I'm mad I didn't go. I'm really mad. All the playstations. The little PlayStation room, everybody.

Rogueish ass nigger, man. Go on. So let's keep it moving. I was a LeBron. And I had my own place since at home. Like you said, you grew up in the hood. Even before you were drafted,

you signed that multi-million dollar deal with Adidas right. So even before the draft, I then joined the Raptors franchise. I was only two years removed from entering the league via expansion. So how were those first couple of seasons in the league for you and how did you handle adjusting? Going from growing up Florida,

playing in Mao Zion to now, you in Toronto, Canada. grown man in the locker room you 18 you know years old just how did you make that adjustment into adulthood it was frustrating man um when you you know when you come from high school being the number one player or if you come from college right and you're the number one player you feel like when you go to that next level that you're going to get the opportunity that you feel all right if i put in the work i feel like i I should get my opportunity to play.

And I had an old school coach that just didn't fuck with young cats. And I happened to be that young cat. So we were butting heads, man. And I was working my ass off, bro, because I know I have to make this work. I'm coming out of high school. So what made me believe and gain confidence and realize that this, shit gonna be easy. We had a mini camp in Barbados, right?

It was after I get trapped. Got a mini camp in Barbados, growing up, watching these players, these pros. I'm faithful, you know, watching the game. And I'm like, I think these motherfuckers are amazing. These NBA players are getting millions of dollars. I'm in the hood. I don't know anything.

I don't know shit. I just know what I see. These motherfuckers make a lot of money and they're pros. They're the best players in the world. I get to the training camp, my nigga. And I'm observing the court, you know, I'm realizing this nigger can't go left. Hold on. He only could play on the left block.

Ah, yeah, this shit is going to be easy, bro. I'm seeing like, it ain't what I thought it was going in. I realize guys are only good at certain things, and they're really good at that thing, though. But it's a whole lot of the shit that they can't do and they won't do. So I'm like, yeah, I can do all that shit right now. I'm 18 years old. Yeah, it's going to be easy. So that gave me confidence like, all right, just keep working young blood.

But my coach, bro, when I was a rookie, oh, I'm, listen, bro, it took a strong nigger to get through that because straight up, straight up, it took a strong nigga to get through this because. I never thought I hear T-Mack talk like this. I love it. This is a strong I like this shit like This is Tick Mac talking like this We're getting the real team But we're getting the Gills Arena

I love you The background where I'm from And we appreciate it But no so So it's like Help me, bro You know what I'm saying? Like y'all drafted me ninth

I'm a lottery pick Give me structure So I can grow and learn this game Don't be shit on me because I'm working my ass off to try to learn the game and better, you know, myself. It'll be games. I don't know if this happened to you or anybody as, you know, told you the stories when there was a fucking rookie. But for it be games, I'll go in and we'll be getting our ass kick.

I'm going in with like five minutes to go in the game. Five minutes. I'm thinking I ain't playing, but I go in the last five minutes of the game. right play them five minutes i'm young shit i'm going out i'm going hard all right 12 15 that ain't the story we get in the locker room 40 fucking some minutes have been played bro 43 minutes been played everything is on me oh yeah we ain't talking about the first 43 yeah talking about your five talking about my five in front of the teams i'm like damn so it was like a continuous thing of like pointing me out in this just trying to kill me just trying to kill my

will couldn't bro because what i what i did we had doug christie on our team dog christie at that time was a primary defender right in the league on the wing i grabbed dog christie ass and played him every day one-on-one after practice working on my shit so i was like if i can do on whatever i want on him or learn angles and how this man play defense and the shit that he does is little tricks I'm gonna be all right I started picking up certain things

playing against him one-on-one and what he was doing and angles and stuff and his hand-checking and a little subtle shit there was all she wrote bro all she wrote so then I was playing a game because I knew I was going to have to see this nigga I would like I knew I was going to have to see him

at some point but when I got to Orlando and I'm polished now like as a one-on-one one type player and I know because he was Sacramento and Sacramento was pretty good right and he was their primary defender I got you Doug I know everything. I know everything

because you know what he does he don't know the new you exactly it's weird that there was no like because I came in 2001 and there was no structure no it's like this is the NBA there's no

figure it out for nothing like you get there and you like what are we doing there's no trainer like we can lift weights but ain't nobody like out there working us doing nothing there

like and I'm sitting here like how are you supposed to get better here yeah where's the ball boys where's the like the skill development so I was getting trained by Mark Jackson Big Mark Jackson in Philly he was working with me on my one-on-one yeah because I was like

because you know I'm second out of position everything looks like will brand new to me and he's like stop looking at these guys as guys yeah look at what they can't do yeah that's how i started looking yeah okay he got a short arm it was some jk not like not a short up but it was jkid so you know jkid arm was like crooked right right yeah so like you know like so like i didn't know that yeah it was like it was like it was like it was like it was both so like probably he broke it or something no so he probably I did not know so he didn't fully

extend so it was like a little curse why you had to go to that my brain was like like oh shit so you right left crossover him because he can't get that yeah yeah yeah so that's how I was picking up

the game like don't don't do left right right left he can't post so then it was like all right start looking at what type of crossover I can use for each individual then I just start looking at angles and realize I'm actually faster than the point guards

and they're handicapped because they have to be point guards and can't go back, yeah, shoot the ball. Can't go back at you. So when I started getting in like three or four minutes, what I did was like they started putting on their ice. Oh, I ain't listening to the coach. Five now.

No. So I'm taking six, seven shots to two minutes. You can't take me out. Right. They already don't put the ice on. Yeah. The other two people are, they read, they're on IR. It's all me right here.

That's a fact. It was one of those things. And then I had like Mookie Baylock. I started with Mookie Baylock. I had Bob Sora. I had Larry Hughes. So I'm learning, like, they're plenty of defense. I'm learning how to like, okay, okay.

But yeah, they were trying to pick on me at the beginning. But I was like, I'm not playing. The NBA started like picking up, like, getting structured, do you think? Because we had a little bit of that when I came in. Oh, it wasn't. Good teams, good teams had it. Yeah, good teams had it. Did you have it in Orlando?

Yeah, I did it. Yeah, okay. Yeah, we had it did. How about you? Johnny Davis, my assistant coach, Johnny Davis taught me a lot of shit when I was in Orlando. A lot of footwork. A lot of footwork. I had fucking Harvey Grant.

Yeah. He still owed me money. I hear the Wivers and fuck the blood. Yeah. Like when I was with the Wizards, like it was, I was just basically training myself. Yeah, women was fucking. training myself I know trainers I know trainers all that shit we learned

ourselves yeah yeah I was watching film like Cole was the first person Cole was the first time I heard like people was going to the gym at 3 o'clock on game day yeah my rookie year we were so bad at practice like they show we practice at 11 they're coming at 11 10

11 15 movie moogie coming 12 o'clock right straight from the golf course it was to the point when uh coach got five Dave Cowles got blind winners to go over, he said, you know what, no more practice. That's crazy. Just show up the games. That's crazy.

That's crazy. That's crazy. Show up the game. You play on a Monday and a Thursday. Yeah, no. Wait. Boy, hey, hey. I was, I was, my rookie year.

Oh, no. Go to State. I was, like, if we, on a Friday, if we didn't play until, like, Sunday, I'm driving from Oakland all the way to sunset. That makes sense. So they can see the, so they can see the Catalan. They can see the escalate on the trip. Yeah, boy.

That's the drop-up. I go up and down three times and then drive all the way back. That's crazy, y'all. But that up and down three times, really got a half four hours, though. I was nothing to do. It was a difference. It was wild. Yeah, it was.

We were flexing on this. Come on my car. You put a lot of miles on that. What? So, Gil, you mentioned, Kobe. I got you both here on this couch, so we got to talk about a situation that went down back in June. You both made an appearance on first take

Fanatics Fest So during a discussion about the obsession with ring culture A teammate you said if you replaced Kobe on the Lakers And got to play with a prime shack You would have won rings two There was a lot more to it Ring Oh ring

Oh rings Oh ring Shit I would just project you I got One is so close to none But a lot of people are opinions By what you said

Most of them were negative But Gil came to your defense Multiple times in the aftermath On this very couch Reminding people that the debate back in the early 2000s was between you and Kobe as the top shooting guards in the league. So would you care to elaborate, clarify, or even address the haters' response to your comment? So here's the deal, right? Like, when we talk in basketball,

we talk in hypotheticals all the fucking time. All the time, right? And it was around the ring culture of what we were talking about. And we're talking early 2000. People went to the rocket years and like we specifically talking about a very minute time in my career when I was on that level. That's what we're talking about.

So I'm looking at Shaq and you got to think, San Antonio and Lakers won all the fucking championships at that time. Like nobody else was winning. So when I said it and here's what I do want to say, ain't nobody replacing COVID.

Nobody's replacing COVID. Nobody's replacing COVID. Kobe. And people forget that I wanted the biggest advocates out here defending when Kobe is disrespected. And if anybody took disrespect to what I said, it's on you, right? Because I didn't mean it wasn't no disrespect to my brother Bean. Top five, wherever y'all have him, for me, he's one of the greatest. And I put him in that top five all time. But it just goes back. When I at who I was as a player at this time, and I'm looking at Shaq, the most dominant basketball player.

I'm seeing myself playing with a cat like Shaq based off of the conversation around ring culture. Hell yeah, I would have won a ring with Bigfella, right? And the reason I say that is because when you go back to early 2000 and you look on that all NBA list, Who's right there with code? I'm on that first team. I see you, Nick. Yeah. I want you.

I'm one of my favorite players. I won't. You is favorite player. That's the fucking hard. That's the one. But here's what I want. But I want you. I want you to challenge that.

I want you to challenge that. Right? Don't hold shit back. I want you to challenge that. I got you. I got you. offense to anything. Just don't be disrespectful. I ain't know, yeah.

I'm a joke. But when I look at the player who I was at this specific week time, I'm not saying I'm Kobe. I don't have to be Kobe to play with Shack and winning a championship. D. Wade proved that, didn't he?

Right? The way he proved that. We're talking about a very small time in my career when I was considered top five player in the NBA. That's all we're talking about. And looking at what

based off of what Shaq and who he was. At that moment. At that moment in time. Throw me in there. That's no disrespect to be. No disrespect to be. Man, he's dog. The man is

one of the greatest top five players ever. Ever. But we're talking about that small, my new time. Swaggy. I would have won one. Swaggy. Everybody said they were the one-one.

Y'all feel the one-one. This is what I say. You know what? I think to knock in the talent both for y'all had, but you ain't got the mindset to go in there and say either a Shaq or me that win the championship. Like, y'all could have got that. Y'all own the team.

They didn't win that. Y'all could have win a check. Like, Colby went in there and said, Get this fat motherfucker out here. Like, you got to have that type of guts. Y'all got to tell it, but the nuts. Like, hold on. Like, someone to get rid of the sack, and they do it.

Swag. They lost. Listen. But they lost. But what I'm saying is at that moment in time, so me, when I said I can replace somebody, I'm not talking about Kobe. I'm talking about 15.

The 15th player, that's where I was at that time. When I'm saying, what I was, I was the last person. I said that Colby, at 20-something and tell somebody to get rid of one of the greatest sentence. That wasn't at 20? He was in high school, though. 20-something. You was in high school.

I know where I was at? So I was at the end of the bench, so I can replace the nigga at the end of the bench. That was easy. Right? That, you, let's replace. We both not playing. I can get that ring. Right? Worst case scenario, maybe Derek Fisher.

I don't know if I had defense like that at that moment in time, but in 01, I wasn't shit in the old foot. I was the bitch player. But I could sit on it in the bench 0-3-0-4 and win the championship. Well, you don't know, we're not talking about that. Oh, but. We're talking about taking somebody out.

But you know the funny part about, you know the funny part about this? But listen, though. Not taking, motherfuck. But this is, but you're talking about basketball and why not, though. 99-tracks. So, so the mindset part. That's what I'm saying. But you talk about telling Shaq to, going to tell them to get Shaq out of there?

He was like 24, 25 years old. But that's the mindset Kobe had. Like, he's taking shots, taking the fuck Shaq at this point. It's about me. That's why they lost. See, nobody wants to give... Huh? He got five.

No. See, you know, but you're talking about the future. We're talking about this moment in time. No, no, no, Nick, don't go too far. So we're saying that. 2000 and 2002. We're talking to 2000, no, we're going 2000, 2004. We gave that.

Two first team, all the NBA lectures like. And that's around that time. He totally got shack out there. No, this was, no, we got check out, what, 2005, four? Four. But they already had three chips at this time. Yeah, so they wanted three chips. So I had this conversation with Derek Chish.

His mindset was like, I'm not number two. But that's, it's me or him. Now, and I got mad because when they didn't even say I was a part of it, me when Kobe said he got mad when he kept saying it's shocking. Right, but did they win, no? No. See, that's the problem that nobody wants to admit, especially if you're a Kobe fan. I had this conversation.

I said, what happened is the championship four and five? And this is what he's this is what Derek Fisher was saying He said During that three Pete We're sitting there Watching Kobe Go from a robin To him

Like we're sitting there like Yo We always watch that Like who team Who team is my Like we all was watching that You know Shackers like You all know who did

And they're sitting there like Yo young fellas It's like that. So he said, so we start the next year. Shack is hurt. He said, so Kobe takes rain. And that's when Kobe starts the season off, kill it. Shack comes back.

And they're like, yo, hey, you know, take a back seat. And he was like, no, no. So he said, so what ends up happening is these two are what's the name? So Shack is like, I ain't, I ain't playing defense, you ain't, you know, pass me the ball. Yeah. So he said, we would have won the fourth one if it was still Shaq in front. Because Shaq in front, he played his game. Kobe was going to do Kobe no matter what.

Shack wasn't ready to be in number two, and that hurt his feelings. And because it hurt his feelings, he wasn't fucking around. Listen, what he's saying? You got to have. Listen, though. No. No. T-Mack is the best player to me.

I could go into Orlando office and say, get Patrick Ewan's out of the way. Get, who else you had a bunch of old. What is the goal? What's the goal? Let's get their own strong ass out of here and go give me some players. I can do that. What's the goal? Listen to what we're saying.

Derek Fisher is saying, if Shaq would have stayed the number one option, we would have won four and five. Listen. He's saying because of this, Shaq as the number one, he plays number one. He plays number one. Kobe is going to be Kobe one or two. Shaq at two, he wasn't mentally ready for being the second option. So you only had Kobe doing him and Shaq was mentally not there. So when you're saying the reason that you didn't win four and five is because Kobe at that moment of time wanted to prove he was the number one option and say fuck these championships.

And Shaq at that time was like, all right, good at the number one. You're the number one option? All right, let's see. So he's willing, so he's willing to let him try to do it on his own. So you don't win for four. That's what I'm talking about as winning a championship. Who's got that mindset by those? So you're willing to lose.

But Shaq went to Miami and played number two to three ways. Because he got convinced then, but you're willing to lose four and five. See, if this was Kobe in 2009, 10, if this was Kobe in 2000, 2009 and 10, that mentality, if he had that mentality back then, he would have been like, yeah, Big fella, it's still your team. Because he knew, as long as I say it's your team, don't mean it's your team. Yeah. I'm going to still come down here. Now I get to make you play defense.

I get to make you play defense because if you, if you're not the number one option mentally, you're not giving a shit down here. You're not being Bigelah. Swat. Let me ask you this. So you're saying because Kobe has the mentality to get rid of Shaq and try to do it on his own is the reason why you don't think I can go in and play with Shaq to win a chip? Because you had the opportunity to do that type of stuff.

How? You had a team. You had a whole franchise and you could have went in there and said, get rid of this person and get this person. You don't need a shot. You could have win and got somebody else. How? I'm saying the way Kobe did it.

That's what I'm saying. Comey ain't do that. He got rid of, he just got, he got, he got rid of shocking it. Hold on, but, hold on, but no, they did. He still won two more with that. See, you're moving the goal supposed to when he's 30. Listen, we're talking about when he's 24. Hey, hold on.

Hold on, Gil, hold on, Gil, hold on. All right, let's talk about, swag. Hold on, hold on, hold on, slow, hold on. You're talking about 24 men's time. Let's go back. You're going too far. Let's go back. I told you, it's a small little area.

We told him about early 2,000. in 2003 to 2004. How am I going to go into my management and tell them to get rid of injured Grant Hill to better my team? You got to do what you got to do. You couldn't do that.

Mama mentality, fuck everybody to win a championship. It was so funny. What you're saying is the result of why he's disrespected. See, you were so... It's your team. Y'all would use that against him.

No. If he said it's Shaq Team. If he's not being in a minute, he was not in him in me. Everybody said it was Shaq. He's just making him feel better. So you got to fight against that if you really want to be the number one player ever. What does it make? You got to fight against all.

Oh, bro. If he has seven rings right now, that's what I was just about to say. I would just be saying. If they won six to seven rings straight and Kobe would be the greatest basketball player ever. with Shaq. Because y'all don't want to count it's five. Y'all say he's got three on being a psychic. But this is, but this, not, not us.

But I'm going to find more with Shaq, that's just Bill Shaked up. But I'm going to tell you what the problem. Kobe is on number 11 in people eyes. I'm going to tell you the problem. This was the, this was the problem. I see what you got about this. This was the problem that no one thought about or looked at during that time is

Kobe. won his third ring, right? And at that time, he is the first shooting guard who is considered the next Michael Jordan just did what Michael Jordan did. Three peted. Yeah. And still.

Who came back that year? Who came back where? Oh, MJ. MJ came back in the NBA while Kobe won his third ring. What do you think the MJ media started doing. Wow. MJ was never a second option

on a... See, nobody thinks about the narrative of what happened. MJ's media did exactly what MJ's media do. NBC all of it.

Oh, those are not real your second option. You're just a robin. That was the media, bro. That was the media. Because as players, when we're watching this shit, when I'm watching in 2000, my brother could tell you, bro.

I'm in my living room when I'm watching the NBA finals and Shaq files out of that game and Colb took up, bro, I'm running around my, fucking, because that's at this time, this is my dude, right? I'm running around my house going crazy watching my dude take over this game, bro. That's when I was like, oh, yeah, this motherfucker arrived, bro. Like, he is that dude. So when I'm watching him at that time, I'm not looking at him to be a sidekick or a second The option is that.

Hell, no, I'm looking at him like he's that, he's that dude. He was putting up crazy numbers alongside of him. Could it be a case that the media, same thing to what they did with KD, right, listening to the media, what they was portraying, oh, you can't win championship, right? So he got to go to go to state, wins the championship, he falls into that, and I don't know if that's true. I'm just saying, could it be the same thing happened to Cole,

where they were saying he was a second option, I'm a sidekick, and then he goes. I'm listening to everything. I'm there. I'm sitting there just. And that's where it comes from, because I even have, they didn't even have, I remember it was, they had you. This was the, he used to do the GM survey. Yeah.

And the GM surveys, they did like best, like the best small Ford, best shooting guard. They did all that weird, like best one of one. They started changing it. So they said, best shooting guard. They always had you at the small forward. They had him at the shooting guard. And then that year you led the league in scoring, they put you to shooting guard.

They see where you rank. So you were second and shooting guard. And then first and small fours. And then the very next year, that category didn't even exist. Yeah. Right? So it was, like I'm sitting there.

I used to watch it in real time. So I seen what the MJ media was doing. And then when Kobe was going into that next year, there was no way he was going to go and start that season saying he's the second option because he's like, wait, wait, I'm three-time champ

where's this Jordan talk? And it was like, yeah, Jordan's here now, the goat's here, and that's what really pissed him off. That's why he was going at him so hard. That's why he was going at him so hard and why he was so personal to him because he comes back

in the middle of what he's doing and nobody's giving him the love for and he's like, all right, I'm about to show you. what because then it becomes you don't got no scoring titles you ain't got no MVP's and it was just like yeah but just going back to you know that that time and in the comments like it was no disrespect to cold but when i looked at myself as a player at that particular time yeah yeah a game like justifiably you got to go from like what i had to go through as a rookie similar to what cold like we came in

we sat our eyes down and we had our coach like going at us you know what I mean didn't give us that opportunity so to experience that and then Vince comes the next year right takes the league by storm his rookie year so now I'm my development is kind of delayed a little bit in terms of that so I'm coming off the bench I don't really start until my third year bro and I ain't even start like majority of those games I don't think so to get to Orlando and then I take off and I'm fucking competing against Kobe Bryant my nigga? Like, what? I'm on

first team with Cody. I had the little baby curl like you. Think about who's... I had the baby curl. Think about who was in the league at this time. Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Alan Iverson, Paul Pierce, Kobe Bryant, Dirk, Steve Nash. All these greats, my nigga. And a niggit like me is on NBA first team and top five

in MVP voting what you don't think I'm supposed to feel that way I'm supposed to feel like that I'm supposed to feel like that you know what I mean I'm like man I would if I did any of those things

I'm supposed to feel that way there's no disrespect my brother man that man no bro that man when they accomplished what he's accomplished now let's come down to the 75 Fifth floor.

Your motherfuckers on the 100th floor. Let's have a conversation on the 75th floor. Let's have that. You know what I'm saying? But I, dog, you got to think. What is it? What do you think it takes to be the main guy to win that championship? Like, give me some things in basketball what it takes.

For me, for you? I don't know. For you, I think you just need it. No, not, I'm saying not for me, but I'm saying, not for me. He said the mindset of a player to win a championship. When some of the intangibles. A little bit of everything. It's the mindset of kill everything.

I've seen that with Cove. I've seen that with Steph. You know, I've seen the preparation with Draymond and all of them, how they get ready for games with the Warriors. And sometimes teams are just better than like. The Warriors, we're just pretty much better than everybody. But, um, so Nick, let me ask you, I was first team all NBA. Shack is averaging 38 and 16 in the finals.

And, uh, if I was Shaq's teammate, you know, me and Shaq, we, at that time, look at the league. I don't know. He didn't get one, you know. He was the second year player. I'm not saying they were. They were, you know, he was older than. in Shaq. I'm sorry. I don't know what

basketball you brought. And this is all hypothetical talk, but I'm like, like, like Shaq did win championships in there because there was a nigga named Michael Jordan. Do y'all forget there was Michael Jordan in the NBA back then? He was whooping ass before retired. So you had two years to win. Shack team wasn't ready. He was young

when he got there. When he did develop, Jordan was back. Swag. Gawley was winning. Yeah, hold on, Swat. Hold on, Swag. Swat. Swat.

Swag. Swag. You was cold. I'm not going to lie if he wasn't cold, but. No. Swag. Averaging 30 ever playoff series at that time. Lading.

2,000. Swat. Swat. Swat. Not 2,000. Swag. Swat. Swat.

Lean fourth quarter in scoring at eight points a game. Mm-hmm. Swag Second and free throws Behind guess who Shaquille O'Neill Leading the league and scoring Swag

Who was the second Who was the second best center in the league back then? Nigga, no five swear you're going I'm just saying I could have won I got that man Okay Who was the second best center?

Then? I'm trying to think McGlore I don't know who the fuck was the best center back Jesus. Yes. No, no, what I'm talking about? No, 2.01?

No, he was old. Oh. Yeah, gosh. He made the offer. Vladdy, D-Vox, like you're talking about, like, because when Shack came in, there was a time where all the, all the skinny centers that was coming in said, we're going to be Powell Ford. Yeah.

So they all went to the Power 4 and was scared of the Sinners Spinnett spot. Germain on, yeah, Germain on it. Well, no, he didn't pop off. He didn't pop off yet. He didn't pop off yet. When you're talking about 0-1-1-2? They wasn't even playing when they played them in Portland. But he wasn't with Indiana.

Yeah, he wasn't with Indiana. They, Dirk wanted, I think, 0-1-2. It was second team behind Shaq at center. Oh, so they were doing some janky stuff. They were just putting them at center. It was no fucking center. It was no center. DeKampbe also in the mix.

It's all hypothetical, man. Yeah, we don't know, but it's just, I feel if I played with Shaq at that time, hell yeah, bro. You know what the funny part is? Yeah, bro. When. When the Bulls retired, when the Bulls retired, the favorite to win the championship was the Lakers.

This was in 98. This is Kobe's first year as a start. And the team was favored to win the championship. They had a lockout and Spurs end up winning it. And then when they lost that, guess who came? Phil Jackson. That's when Phil Jackson was like, oh shit, their NBA, their championship ready.

So Phil came in, and then, That's when they won. But they was favorite in 98 when Kobe just became because they had Glenn Rice. They had Glenn Rice at the time. That's where they messed up that. You're acting like people just won with Shaq now. No, no. We're talking about that at that time.

No, we're talking about, no. Yeah, Eddie Jones. Yeah, but it was Jordan. No, this is this is Jordan's era. Yeah. This is Jordan. It's happening to MJ's era now. This is MJ.

Remember, they three pitted at the end. They retired. They retired. He retired in 90, what? 98 97 98 so the favorites in 98 going into that 98 season when the bulls

when the bulls broke up when the bulls broke up Shaquille O'Neill Lakers wait so the three was 96 99 99 99 to 02 so so

so Shaquille O'Neill Lakers was favorite in 98 this would have been Kobe's first year as a starter so it's him Glenn Rice and Cole. That was... O'3, right?

Huh? 99-03, right? What? Their championship... 9902.02. So, 99, 2009, 2009, 2000. Yeah, 2001-0-1-2. Yeah. So they were favorite, and then they

end up losing Spurs. So Spurs swept them, won the championship, and then Phil Jackson came in, and then they three-ped it. But the Lakers messed up, my... Lakers, I think they messed up when they got rid of the shooters and brought in who was that? Carmel

Oh, that following on that, that 014, yeah, that Gary Peyton. They missed that team up. No offense to GP, but you can't, GP and Carl Malone, you can't have it. It's not together. GP in Coke, so, you know, I'm looking at how Phil Jackson played or how to, GP, GP average 20 in, in, um, Miami. The 03, no, when he was in, he would have been in Milwaukee. Milwaukee. He average 20 in Milwaukee.

So he comes to the Lakers, because I. I'm a free agent that year. So Brian Russell opts out to go to the Lakers, which gave me more money. So that's what they gave me more money. So I'm looking at it. I'm like, Cove, North Jordan had a real point guard that had on the ball. So what is Gary Payton guard? It makes sense to me.

So I'm like, that's going to be such a clash because they both want that elbow. They want to both kind of post up. They might as well just keep Derek Fisher and use that money for somebody else. And they end up clashing anyway. Oh, they did trade Derek Fisher, huh? No, no, Derek Fisher State came off the bench to... He did? Yeah, to GP.

It's a GP. So, Gil, you talk about the MJ media, NBA on NBC. They went off the air, what, 2003-ish? So they, 99, they left, and then when Jordan came back, they came back. And then when Jordan left, they left, and then they came back, Jordan was back. And now they're back. So that brings me up. I'm just saying, the nigga my own NBC is all I'm saying.

Well, this season... The Golden Era of Basketball. It was the Golden Era, NBC, Golden Era of Basketball. season, Team Mac, you'll be joining the NBA on NBC crew as a studio analyst. That roster includes Mello, your cousin, Vince Carter, and Michael Jordan, who will be a special contributor. We don't really know what that means yet, but he will be popping up from time to time. But what does it mean to you to be a part of the NBA on NBC?

Man, listen, bro, to when you look back on your career, look back where you come from, as we talked about, Nick, where you come from, and to be a partner of NBC, bro. Hey That's what's up. That's what's up. It's just shows, man, if you lock in,

if you have the discipline and you focus on what you want to do, it could be done. No matter where you come from, right? I'm up there with Grant Hill, Vince Carter, Mello.

You're talking about a cat that went four years to Duke University. cat that graduated from North Carolina Mello went to Syracuse I'm out of high school Who would win when I won it out of all for y'all? Like, come on,

come on, man, we're worrying them, but why are you challenging you? I'm shocked to see him talk like, that's why I'm like, yeah, dumb. So for me... For you would win that day. Yeah, of course. I'm never going to say nobody's going to beat you, bro. That's why you asked one of the... I can be beat, though.

I'm not going to sit here and say, you know what I mean? We all can be beat. Not me. I never lost. I'm just going to love. Gill. Never lost. Yeah, I'll get you, bro.

No, no, no, no. I'll quit. We got 27 games still pending. Killing him. He never let me finish. I know. So the NBC thing, like, it's good to have it back, man. Just remember growing up, bro?

It was two things that had me running home. It was got damn street light. NBC on Sundays, dog. Hear that music, hit that theme song, come on. And like I said, it was the golden era of basketball, the MJ era, man. And it was just so many great moments, you know, sitting at home watching Jordan when he changed against the Lakers, hitting the game winning shot at the end of his career. Like, it's so many of those magical moments that I want to, you know, have the new basketball fans be able to, you know,

witness that and then we got the new generation that we're putting on on what NBC is all about so yeah what's the funny is I had a conversation with them all-star weekend and when they were talking about their ideas it got me excited because it's my childhood yes right so the ideas that there is like you know we're going to you know before the game we're going to chop it up with the players right um you know we're going to key in on these matches make it dramatic because they were saying we lost that yeah he said we lost the the on the court like we're here because these guys on the court all that stuff that is being talked about personal

that didn't make the NBA that wasn't what made you fall in love and i'm gonna give you a prime example of what you was just talking about playing code man playing cove NBC yeah yeah yes uh about McGrady's having a little bit of back problem, you know what I mean? Like the broader talking to Kobe before the game telling them I had a little bit of back problems, right? So then after they interview Cobb, they come over to my locker room and tell me what Kobe just said. I'm like, you said that? All right. So it causes that, you know, that rivalry, but it makes it fresh and you want it.

And it's like you want to go out there and prove to the world, prove to the player. bro, I'm here, they ain't running. They ain't going nowhere. So you want to create that animosity before the game, just friendly animosity. And isn't it? They're making it rivalries versus now is just media wants reality TV.

Yeah, no. Yeah. Nah. So. But they are, but this new era is kind of friendly with each other, though. No, no, it's the media. Like, listen, if you look at the media that came in, it was more beat writers who used to,

to paint with their pins, right? So when you're talking about like the Peter Vessi types, right, it's all headline drama. So once that started clicking, that's all they knew. So they wasn't selling you the game anymore. They were selling you everything that's outside of the game. That and a little bit of baseball, got a lot to do with that because it's so big

and these guys play together, right? So it's a little bit of that, that's funneling into the NBA. So let's talk a little bit. You're on the same team as MJ now, I want to go back to your rookie year, Bulls' last dance. You played against MJ three times that season, including your third career start late March in 1998. You know, I'm going to talk about the big game.

I had to go. I had to scroll. I'm going to go ahead. Man, that's funny that I had to scrolls for the good ones. He can't do that. It's rookie year. It's rookie year. Rookie year.

Respectfully, slow down. But so that was your third career start. Late March 9 time in that game, in that game, hit a game winner in Toronto. But you had 12 points, nine boards, eight dimes, Yeah. Five blocks. Yeah.

So what was it like being on the same court as MJ as an 18-year-old rookie? Man, I was so, I was, MJ as MJ, but I was really excited to guard and play against Pip because that like I saw myself as him. You know what I mean? Like that. I watched Mike when he was in like 86, 87, nobody can't do that shit, right? I know this is the older version of Mike, but I still remember 86, 87, like that dude. do. Pip is what I identify with. So it was, no, we played in Toronto in the baseball stadium.

And this is my first time playing in front of like 30,000 people because our original games being 12,000. When Mike and Chicago Bulls come to town, it's 30 plus in that mode. They got to bring like extra seats and shit. So I was excited, man, to go up against them guys, had my best game almost dumped on PIP that game. I remember that, but I landed on his fucking back about killed myself. But it's like, I want to show you know, Mike, somebody that

I idolize, one of the players that I idolized, I want to show him that why I'm here as a high school kid. And it's just fun to be out there playing against dude, man. But Mike, to see Mike, though, to see Mike up close and personal,

just how smooth he was and how he changed his game at the time, because it wasn't the mic from the 80s, right? It was a different type of mic. Man, dog, he's, that man's incredible. He's incredible.

How was it going from like a defender slash Pippen to scoring 30 again? I had to. No, for real. I had to. Bro. You have to do what you do to get on the court. No, I'm saying you're talking about

in Toronto. In Toronto? Yeah, because you wasn't. Yeah, I had to get. Nah, so that goes back to the strike. that I was talking about, right? My coach, Butch Carter, had took over because Isaiah Thomas saw what was going on

with me and the other coach. So he fired him because Isaiah Thomas was the president at the time. So he fired an All-Star weekend. Butch Carter, who was the assistant coach, took over, gave me structure. And when he gave me that structure, I knew what I had to do as a player to get on the basketball court. And he challenged me.

He was like, whenever you play, you can garden the best offensive player. Cool. Cool. So that's how, you know, and it was, for For me, it was just really going out there and competing. I was long, wiry, and I was quick and, like, deceptionally quick and fast on the basketball court. I had the IQ, like, I can go off there and compete.

Once I gained confidence on being able to guard certain duct, uh, bro, in figuring you out, I was leading in block shots at that time as a guard or whatever position they had me. It's the right position. Yeah. I was the, I was leading. And then you said, fuck it,

I'm going to just score 50 a game. So then when I get I did. No. No. No. So when I get to Orlando,

Grant Hill is hurt. So now, man, my role has expanded. I got to score now. Right? I still was playing lockdown defense. It wasn't to the level

where I got to do this shit and guard the best player every single night because I got to go ahead and score. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I got to facilitate. Right? It was a lot on my shoulders.

But when it came to the playoffs, yeah, I'm guarding the best player. I was like, that's what I did at that time. I wasn't seeing this in Toronto. You got a little bit of that. So I've seen you in your career. You was using that shit. He was nice with it. I was a defense player when I came in.

No, no, I had to play these. That's what I was saying you had to take on the court. So I had to. I don't get for what the score was. I had to pick up full court. I had to. I'm picking up full court. Yeah, two of a hundred.

Take charges and shit All the stuff you have Until I start seeing them Bruce Bowen checks What he signed for Seven year, 12 million Nah, man, I would have put the ball In the basket This man, first team all defense

Just saying 12 years Listen, bro 12 years I thought Bruce Boyne was a On the ball defender But to Stop You thought he was, right?

No, but here's what I'm going to say. I'm not throwing no shade at it but if I had David Robinson and Tim Duncan behind me I will play the same defense I will be pressured up on you giving you no breathing room bro because I know you don't want to go down there right if I got stacked behind me

I'm a pressure the shit out of you bro you're not now I want you to go that way because you don't want to do that I want to make you think damn I got to pull up for a jumper because I can't get there so that's how you know I was a, I was a, I was a, I was a hundred still, I was a hundred block guy in Orlando. Like, you know, so funny, nobody be, nobody realizes that. And when you say someone don't play defense like that and they have awards, people getting mad.

Yeah. And I'm saying, and I said as an offensive player, I don't, this, the nigga that's guarded me. I'm not worried about it. I'm not worried about it. I trained enough to get by you. Yeah. What I focus on is who's back there? Are they focused on me?

Are they... Like Vresiao, I hate it, but... LeBron in front of me, easy way. Right. Right? He got bad. He's what's behind. Like, okay, is Vresial? Is he trying to take a charge? Let me see where he's at.

That's hard. Yeah, that's what I'm worrying about. I'm not worrying about this guy. So, yeah, this guy looks like a great defender because that guy is rotating over already. So now I'm getting ready to take... He comes. I got to back and back out of all.

So I learned, like, you know what if I won four flat from the top of the key these bottom guys got to come in they got to come in they got to go all for them to take a charge on me they got to move all the way around and stop right there

yeah versus here they can just it's an easy one so that's why I started attacking San Antonio from the top Lagos from Detroit out to age hey hey was it a Chaunce yeah Ben Wallace and then back there

can't help you right now not in this spot Yeah, yeah. Not at this spot. You put me on the side of up in trouble because then they just all coming over. That was a defensive team, boy. Yeah, they was for other teams. Detroit? Yeah, I'm just talking about 30.

Thursday, Prince. Yeah, we only have 45, but I have. Ben Wallace, Tashon, Prince. Yeah, no, no, no. When they got Rashid Wallace, when they got Rashid. That was the next year after I played him. It put everybody in their right place because Ben was a great help side defender. Like, his on ball, he was, it was okay.

Like, he can guard the guards, but, like, big man, he wasn't really like that. Ben? It was his help side, cleaning everything up. Yeah. Oh. So then you put Rashid on the bigger guy. He's going to keep him tired. And then, Ben is back there cleaning up.

And I was like, oh, they're solid now. They're all complete. So got you two gentlemen on the couch. So as we all know, basketball big in China. They have more basketball fans than United States has citizens. Timak, you are the man out there. You and Gil were both on the Adidas rostered together mid-2000s. So Gil, what do you remember from taking a trip with Team Act to China

and surpassed him in signature shoe sale? Okay, no, so we're going to rewind it back to we're doing a commercial. We're going to commercial, right? Oh, my gosh. And I go in the wrong trailer first. So I go in Tim Duncan's trailer. Like, oh, my bad Tim playing video games. You play video games?

He was like, yeah, but don't tell anybody. And I was like, man, hey, how? long we're gonna be here this my first joy he was like um yeah we're gonna we're gonna be here all day he said uh i was like all day he's like yeah no when when timac got when timac get here we're gonna be here no later than 30 minutes trust me just follow team would just so t mac comes in looks at it it was like uh hey what what is this oh no man we're not doing this man look that's right man one two pictures man we're We're going to keep it moving, man.

Keep it moving. And he was, hey, Tim Duncan was like, told you, told you. Like, so, like, T, like, so KG, all of us, like, yo, let's just let T-Mack talk for everybody. Team Mac coming in here. It's like, all right, no, no, we're not doing this. We're going to do this. Boom, boom, boom, all right, what's the next one?

Boom, boom, boom, boom, the next one. And then there's like, all right, I'm out. I'm sitting here like, Tim Duncan was like, go, let's go. I was like, it was like, 12 hours worth of 15 minutes. I was, so I was like, God damn.

No, I was like, God, damn. This is next, like. How do we get? Like, I'm like, Tim and K.G was like, wait, to Matt Co. We could. The MacC., we're good. No, but Gil always said the story about going.

He does. So I already knew, so I already knew he had power. But we got to China, because I'm practicing. He didn't know he was somewhere else. So I'm braking to the A&1 dude, the ball of guy. Like, yeah, man, I'm kind of a big up in time. You know what I mean? I'm kind of a big deal out of this brother right here, right?

So they're going to all be out there waiting for me, you know what I mean? It's going to be like 50, 100 people out there, right? Crazy. So I'm talking, get out there, and it's like thousands at the airport. Like Michael Jackson out there. What? Michael Jackson. And all I see.

Team Macca! See back up I swear I swear to Not the team back You just start walking back Like You just start walking by

That's right That's fucking go by I got to turn his head Like you're like Man Not the team back up By the time I got around Everybody's gone

Yeah Hurt my little fear. That's funny, Gil. Oh, man. Now, you remember we played there? Yeah. Right, so we played there, I'm hurt. But I didn't know, I should have noticed, but I didn't know.

Did you know there was a fight in Shanghai? No. We playing y'all. So y'all come to us, right? So I'm hurt, and it was one woman. Team Mac, Team Mac, Team Mac, Team Matt, T. Finn got mad. No T-Mack are here.

No T-Mack. She ain't right. No tea maca here. T maca. T maca. T maca. I don't, nothing to get the mess of violence,

but she got her ass whoop. For having to sign up. Yeah, she got her ass. Soon as the men went back down. Pull the shit up. Tiam mackle. And I'm saying like, this is crazy.

Like, this is crazy. And then the rule, and then the T-Mack rule that came in in the middle of the season, season. I guess somebody shot a three in your face. And he did this. He did that? Yeah.

He did that and said... Oh, y'all plays in China. Yeah, but I didn't play. I was already hurt. So once somebody did this, the team back, right? They put a rule in and said, no more weaving your hand in team back face. Yeah, no time.

I sold the CBA out there. I sold a CBA out, so it was crazy. Like, when I announced that I was going to the CBA, That shit sold out, bro. I was pulling up to the games with like the Beatles. No. Like the beat. I was like, God, damn, this shit is crazy, bro.

I can only imagine how MJ felt when he was pulling up to the game. Like, this shit was, it was foul. Was that crazy? Like, I mean, like. It was like that, it was like that. It was like that. Like, it kind of, like, I'm sitting here like. And I don't even, and if you know me, I don't like attention.

I don't like that, bro. I don't like that. Man. Hell no. That was. But, like, it was, like, we're here, and we see, like, it's a different level of it. You like us.

Yeah. When I was out there, I'm like, is this what Kobe in them from? It's a crazy, yeah, yeah. It was a different, no, it was a different level, though. So, let's keep it moving. Y'all both signature shoes with Adidas. Obviously, you signed with them, what, back 1997, had some ups and down, sign that lifetime deal 2002, back in 2023.

said it was a little shaky at that point, but what's your relationship like with Adidas now? Man, we're good. I went away for about two or three years. And with the landscape of A.U. Basketball changing, Adidas has, well, not Adidas, but they had one of the prominent basketball camps to ever exist, and that's the A, B, C, D.

Yeah. Because of my relationship with Sonny Vicarra, right still talked to him to this day like my mentor I reached out to him and asked him what he was doing with the property and told it might be an opportunity for us to bring ABCD back because I know Adidas wanted it right so and this is when I had you know didn't extend my contract back with them but I went to Sonny and asking what he wanted to do with that property Adidas wanted can I license it or can I own it and take it to Adidas.

He thought that was a great idea, right? So I have ABCD. We're bringing ABCD back next year. You're back. We're bringing that back. 2006 is when it went away. So we bring it about to be the 20th anniversary. So we bring it back.

You played in ABCD, right? I was there. I was there. I was there. But you know enough. Like, who was your class that was there? Because the reason why I'm asking, I wish B. Jenis was here, too. It was.

The last year's class would have been Joe Johnson. It was Joe Johnson. Because we want to, I want to do a doc on the history of that. It's just so much rich history and great stories to be told from that. I think a lot of kids today will appreciate, you know. Those stories, because, man, you think about it. It started in, what, 85, 86 and ran all the way to 2006 and the likes, I think, KG and Brun, Cove, myself, Lamar Odom. Mello.

Yes, bro. Yes. Some top dogs, O.K, males, some top dogs in that joint. Now a little Nick could go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Those Swaggy will be at ABCN. Oh, he can't play. A little Nick can't play, man.

Hell, hell, hell, no. all. Why you even put little swag you got game, bro? You put pressure on him like that. Man, he got to listen to this man. Who are they talking about little swag got game, bro? I told him. He probably be Uncle Gil. He'd be shooting his dream. No, I'm getting realistic.

Stop shooting his dream. Now, that motherfucker going to be YMCA play the rest of his life. That's it. Just YMC. Bill, we're going to bring YMCA. Go to YMCA. We're going to bring YMCA. No, he got to YMCC back. I'm bringing YMCA.

I'm bringing YMCA back. We've got a lot of comeback. You're gonna be Park League legend. That's it. Oh, that's all these, sweat. Five, five, seven, for the last six years. Okay, all right. He got some.

He got some. He's 17. But yeah, we're bringing it back. He's 12, fool. Swack, wait, Nick Jr's not 12, dog. He's in the seventh grade. Again. No, this is the first time.

This is first time. What they said, hold back. They don't mean every year. God damn. Him and Elijah used to play together. Man, stop, man. No, no. I'm not. It feels like both them kids was a thing.

They just got the same birthday. That's hard. Not saying that. Oh, no. Every time Elijah has a birthday, Nick has the birthday. He said, again. It feels like they both 19. This row with this guy, man.

Every year is like, wait, what? So Team Matt, got a couple more questions for you. We appreciate you pulling up. So, man, you're saying I had three kids before you had Nick Jr.? Yes. Nick was born when I got. got traded. So got a couple more questions for you.

Appreciate taking time out of your schedule. ABCD Camp coming back. Team Mac launching that with Adidas. So like I mentioned, you signed a lifetime deal with Adidas, $200 million deal in the spring, but that was after Kobe basically became a sneaker free agent. Thank you, Dean. Left Adidas. It got you your back.

Thank you. So you two faced off for the first time in the aftermath of that situation. Second time before he left. No, I think. No. After. He bought himself out. It was after.

That was after. That was a spring. Oh, wait for a hundred minutes. Come on, Gil. I got Google. I was positive. I Google. The man's right here.

He got down 200. He turned it down, but there's nobody left though yet. I do. No, no, that's not. You do, that's what I know he did. But he didn't, he didn't officially leave it. Yeah, but he bought himself out of the contract.

He had the option to do that. I think the Kobe 2's kind of didn't. I was at UCLA at the time, so we basically went from Rocking Cobe's to Rocking Team Mac. But I appreciate you as well, because the Kobe 2's, that was a tough day in the Lock and they pulled those out. We had to pretend like we were rolling with us. Oh, the space. The moon boots.

Yeah, the moonboats. The moonboats. But you and Kobe faced off in the aftermath of that situation. That November, Lakers coming off the three-peat. So in that game, it was a shootout. I don't know if people remember. Y'all both had 38. I believe you had 38, 9 and 6.

Kobe had 38, 10 points. What do you remember from that shootout with Kobe back in 2002? Was there any extra motivation for you in that game now that you would become the face of Adidas at that point? No, it was no motivation in that. that need no shoe company for us to have motivation you know what I mean like

because we had a friendship back in 1997 right and we were just competitors man but at that time Coles was playing for championship was it like was it pressure though like you felt like you always had to have a good game against yeah yeah because it was like either who I felt like every time I competed against him

in those times like I had to not so much outdo him but I had to compete to where motherfuckers would be like yeah Mac shit Mac did his Colb did his thing but shit Mac was right there with him see what I'm saying like it had to be that conversation

yeah for sure right it couldn't be like code destroyed back ass Who else brought that out of you then, even though you led the league and scored? Nobody brought, no one brought that out of me. No one. Like, nobody else could do that. You know what I'm saying? So everybody's just easy work.

Because we, I mean, I ain't going to say easy work. You ever 32 with the team you had easy work when you get in triple team? Listen, listen. I always told the story when you had, it was the 62 against us. And I remember going back to the locker room and I was like He wasn't even on fire No, I was not

I was mad at myself I was like that was just Fleckman's some easy shit Because he missed about 10 free throws 9 free throws and I missed 10 of my last 11 shots Because I was like yo he was supposed to have like 80, 90 years like he wasn't

Like no bullshit because I remember coach Wait wait wait wait How much that you see? See, it was no. Easy 6-2. And you two had missed nine free throws and missed the nine, the last.

I missed my two, nine. I missed my last episode too. Listen, bro. This is before the 81. If he had the 81, I would have, man, probably would have locked in a little bit. We're sitting there like, like he getting, like, you know what it's like,

yeah, he getting, he getting buckets. Like, it was like one of those. I remember it was like at halftime. You, I have 29, you have 31. So I'm looking up there like, yeah. I'll compete. And then, you know how like you come out at the end of the third? You look up.

You got 40. What fuck happened? 29. I ain't scored a third quarter? You niggas are selfish. It was one of those. And I remember coach was like, yo, go out there and guard him for a couple plays. Man.

No, you're not guarding. I'm like, guard who? Who the fuck? I just remember. And I'm like, what the defenders can't do now. What's the youth? Gil, I remember coming down on you one time. I got tokens.

I remember coming down. on you one time. I think it was on the right side. I came down and I see you just like that. I was like, yeah. Blum, bum, bum. I'm doing what they're saying? I'm doing the same thing they're doing. I remember we put the center on them.

Brendan, go out there. He was like, Jared. Like, we put every single person on them. And I think it wasn't too many 60 balls at that time. No. I don't think Kobe had six. No, no, no, no, he didn't have that at that time.

I don't think Cole had six there was when he was doing the 40s in the row. So it was my first year, it was my first year in Washington. No, no, no, no, no, the 40s in the row is when he was trying to get me for the scoring type. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was 03. Yeah. Oh, 3. No, 2003.

Yeah. So yours was 0304 because of my first year in Washington. Let me tell you some about that. Man. So the 0-203 season, I felt like I was like at my best where I was sharp, like, everything was just complete. So I would have 20 by halftime, like damn near every night. I'm looking on the West Coast, and this dude is putting up these crazy-ass numbers. I said, I know he's trying to come get

this fucking scoring title. I know he bro, you got shack, bro. How do you still do it? How are you still? No, what would you why are you scoring like this, bro? Get a ball to shack, bro. So my coach Johnny Davis used to work with me every day. Don't let him come get you, T. He had it like a list. Don't let him come

get you, T. Don't let him come. You see him. You see him. You see him. I see him. I see him. That motherfucker went on what, it was 9.40? I was right behind him getting 30. 30s, 35, 40. I couldn't get that nine in a row, but I was, man, I was like, I'm not, bro, you compete for championship.

You can't come have the scoring title, too. Let me have some. God damn, dog. Let me have something. So I locked in, brother. I had to go get that scoring title. You know how crazy it is. Where was AI?

Probably like 28, I think. It was just them three. You know how crazy it is you just said, he was 21, 22. saying I feel completely yeah you like just the idea of that was 20 22 23 yeah when there was you're talking about you feel like at a point where this game is so easy yeah you know why and you're not even in that yeah yeah you can see the easy let me I'm gonna tell you why it was because I came in with athleticism right already had that I already had the IQ for the game, but it's like the footwork, right, mastering how to play in the phone booth.

When I master how to play in the phone booth, when I only need one to three dribbles, that was it. And at that time, I had mastered that because I worked with Kobe on it in 97, like, worked on it, got the basics to it. And then from 97 to 0203, now 03, I'm like, oh, 203, I'm like, oh, 203, I'm like, it's here. I feel it, I see it. And it was like, it was nothing to do. I had a counter for the counter. Like, whatever you, it was nothing you could do. And then on top of that, I mastered making the game easier.

I ain't got to do all this shit to get in and get a shot. Nah, I can get you off balance. All I got to do is get you off. I'm trying to get you off balance. so I get you off balance to where now I'm dictating the pace I can't have you dictate how you going to guard me I got to throw your balance off

and once I did that it was it was murder she wrote my rookie year y'all came to Oakland we got a we had a teammate Cedrick Henderson on our team right so he sits here

I sit here so I'm 15 he's 14 so since he never played he should just drink beer Right? No. This is going to be a good one. Yeah, so he just put it in a little Gatorade bottle. You need to say it.

No, no. You need to hit that we need to know. This is going to be good. So they put, oh yeah, he's just drinking beer. Right? So by the time we get to the end of the game, he's good, right? On the bench? On the bench.

Yeah. So we're playing you guys. So either got it in the post, right? If they did the three quarter, it was a double back. Yeah. On the baseline, come out the other side, get the little jump. Yeah. Right?

So he's talking shit. He was like, we don't pay Antoine James in the max. And he can't, it's the same plane. Watch it. Huh? Quarter, um, shot. Motherfucking stupid. Right?

Drunk is a motherfucker. Just drunk. Just same thing. Same thing. Wait, what, watch it. Quarterfront. Out loud. Boom, boom.

Don't pick. Oh, my God. Right. Coach was like Session Go get into him Oh Right right

So I'm over here like Yo He's about to be a show Oh he's about to stop him He already know the players He knows the plane So I'm the only one who actually believe That he's about to stop him

So Chris Mills Like that drunk motherfucker might Get his ass busted Right All right Come on there And I'm sitting there like, T-MAC poster. He said, here.

They look at me and watch what the stupid ass do. Motherfucking, we're here. Back, back pick, boom, hit it. Then he came down hit the shot. Cause you're like, time out. Get your ass out of the game. Sorry about that, Brooke. That was our slice play.

That was our slice play. It was like it had a little version of the triangle in it. That was funny. I was sitting here like, I really believe this motherfucker. He sounded so convinced. He knows this coming. You posted up, like, that's the decoy. It's about to be the double pick on the baseline.

Nika did that. It got hit right with it. I'm sitting here like, that's funny, dog. Back down memory. That was the funniest shit, man. We can't let you go without, while I was talking about a big initiative you got going on. You bring an ABCD camp back. But let's talk about the OBL in Stanford.

One's basketball league. So you created a few years ago to give Hooper's opportunity to showcase their skill set, win some major bread. I was out in Vegas for the inaugural championship game. I just got to tell you, it was, from my experience, for a first season of any league, cracking, you had the bar cracking. I mean, just what y'all had going on there felt like just primetime major event. We're getting turned up.

I think $250,000 to the winner. I tried to take the money, security. Like, no, I'll try to give me a couple hundred. But, so what was your motivation behind starting to OBL and what can fans expect for season two? So I have, I have two sons. I think at this time, my boys was like 16 and probably like, I don't know, 11 or some shit like that. But when I used to come home, my boys would have YouTube on. These dudes don't, they don't watch the game, right?

They don't watch NBA, they don't watch college. So I'll come in the house and YouTube would be. on, but it'd be them cats playing Blacktop, right? And then the games, they start out like 4 on 4, but then, you know, cats get to talk of shit, everybody you know, get closer and it's one-on-one now.

So I'm like, hold on. So the crowd is out here when they play in 4-on-4, but then they come in when they start playing one-on-one. That's what they want to see. I have an A&U program. I had A&U program. My son is in

college right now since, like, he was in third, fourth grade. So I know the landscape and you, and that's all they want to play after the practice is, you know, king of the court. So you got to listen to the kids, bro. The kids going to tell you everything. So I'm coming in his house every day and seeing my boys pop YouTube and that's the shit that they love. All right. So I know, you know, you know, you know that it's cats on our block that's nice as hell that just never got the chance. I know it's a lot of dudes out here that love to hoop, right? They love the hoop. They're hooping at the YMCA, the hooping overseas,

the playing semi-pro leagues. They got game. We don't know who they are, but we should know who they are. So I felt like giving them a platform, and a lot of that had to do with how I, where I'm standing right now or sitting right now today is because of ABCD platform, right?

It wasn't because you know, I I was I wasn't the number one guy at this time, but I came to this platform, became that number one dude to propel me to where eventually I ended up wanted to be. So giving these dudes a platform to showcase their skills because, man, I'm telling you, when you look around on social media and seeing these guys play, awesome. Awesome. And I just

think, you know, it needs to be a bigger platform for these guys to make a name for themselves. And that's why I created OBL. And we coming back in October for our second season. OBO cracking, make sure you get out there and check it out. I'm going to be real. Like I said, like, I don't know what you expect. I'm working with Showtime at the time. You got to go through the OBO thing. I'm like, I was Team Mac.

I was Team Max. I just want to, I'm going to go see Team Mac. You ever think about like every time I watched one-on-one, I always think, man, why is it so brutal? Right. Do you ever? Yeah, it's just like, it's one of those, it's one of those things. You got to watch the movie. No, it's one of those things where this. they try, it's like the stronger players

try to take away the skill. I don't, I don't like those players. Yeah, I don't like those players. Like, I remember what, I want skill. Yeah, it was like, it started off as King of the Hills. Yeah. Like, you're not good. You're just sitting there doing this and like,

and it's like the skill, the skill of it. And I'm like, but all me, I mean, I'm going to call them foul. Nah, you're going to get shipped to day. So, so with one-on-one basketball, obviously, you know, like, it has to be, be structured properly for us to enjoy because man, that shit can be, like, it can be nasty

when you watch, like, nah, man, I don't want to watch. So the rules and everything, it has to be, the point system has to be perfect for you to be able to enjoy quality one-on-one basketball, and I think we have identified that, so I don't know if you guys know, but I had a conversation

with NBC. Sorry, NBC, if I'm not supposed to be telling this, but I think they're going to have one-on-one at All-Star weekend this year. I don't know if I'm letting out. No, they need to pay me. We heard KD said that he would play one against anybody. They need to pay somebody to do something.

To what? So when, what was it, 2002, 2003, no, 23, when we were talking about the all-time weekend, 2020, when I was like, all this, all this, this, this, this, what's the name bullshit they do in the past and all that? I said, we made it. I said, one-on-one, you put a grand prize. I said, one-on-one, we will pay. I said, you'll pay to play. I said this.

when I did my OBL back in 22, like, before that, I was like, bro, they need one-on-one basketball. Katie, you say he had played for women? Of course, I said he would do it. But here's my reason why, obviously, we as Hooper is in competitors, we want to see that shit.

But also, how many superstars like, let's take our older superstars out. When you get rid of Katie and Steph and then the boys are going, how many superstars are in our league? Superstars. Superstar. Your level, superstars. It is. Very thin.

Very thin. So we've got to create more stars. We got to create more stars. How can you create more stars in our league? At one-on-one. One-on-one. Because you know who the guys that's going to get in, them boys that's on 10th and 11th on the list.

Oh, that's going to be able to be. Hey, yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Them the guys that's going to get in. And now you're creating stars in another category of our game. And that's what that's at. I said, I said, man, when you're talking about one-on-one basketball,

that means it's me. that means it ain't my coach who's benching me it ain't the gentleman I can and I said you can even say all right everybody put in 10 grand you're dinner at a whole league yes you will have to do that you can pay to get in fuck you picking me let me pay so you can't try to keep me out

because of my name I'm paying who I got to build the pond let the winter and that'd be and that's the thing you know the viewership that'll be on that bro it'd be bigger than it'd be bigger than the shit it'd be bigger than Young contest? It is a replacement.

It will be the number one thing entertainment for us. I'm not talking about like the finals, but also weekend, that'll be the show. Well, we will see also we can be in LA. This year we will be turning up. This can be on Sunday. Hey, Lala. Nah. Come on, man.

Come on La La La Land, y'all. Y'all know I ain't mean that shit, bro. That's all good. So last question for you, we appreciate you. So a lot of talented players in the league right now. You talked about kind of this next generation of Superstar and how I need more of it, but who's the closest player in today's NBA to Prime Team Act? In today's game?

I don't see nobody. Katie's older. Katie's older, like the younger. I don't see nobody, bro. I don't. It could have been, it could have been. Oh, we said like Paul George? It could have been the older guys.

It would have been Paul George. It would have been Paul. The younger guy. We talk about not the guys. Younger guys, whoever's in the league might have been at Indiana, Paul George. It would have been that one. But we're talking about this. I think it's going to be hard to be that because I took mid-rangers.

And a lot of these guys, like if Tatum was a guy that took those mid-rangers like him, I would say Tatum because not the fluidity. Like, how moved, I was fast. We are aware. We are aware. But I think if you had, like, if he played. that in-between game like that, yeah. Somebody who's bad. It had to be a different team, Boston, make them shoot.

Nobody really plays like that. Other than Kadi, Booker plays like that. Like, a lot of Kauai plays like that. He doesn't have that. He doesn't have that. I'm just saying the in-between game, they're just not settling for threes. Like, SGA kind of, from the mini standpoint. The game is a lot.

From a mini standpoint, not shooting a ton of things. SGA got a little bit of cold in him. You see that? You see that? He got a little bit of that cold bit. Like sometimes if you're not watching him and you're just trying to talk like he got that. He got the mannerism.

He's kind of talk like it. But AI, so if you really pay attention to him and you can tell who influenced him, it'd be. There's definitely Coke. Allen, it'd be AI and cold. I can see a lot of his.

The brains come from AI damn near. That's him. He's, that's, you know, that's his past favorite player. That's a popular player, so that's who you're watching. Yeah. Team Mac, we appreciate. you take a time out of your schedule.

We'll be on the lookout for OBL Season 2. Also, look forward to see you on NBC. Since D-Way got one, I can see you getting one. Swaggy. Swaggy has reverse course. Hey, we got a confession at the end from Swag, man. I'll take it. That's all we were here. I was dragging it out.

I was waiting for swaggy. You definitely not getting one. That's what you're talking about. You won't win shit. Are you serious? Okay, all right. 2,000, name the 992, 2000. Name the 15th player, the 14th player, the 13th player. Oh, what?

You can't. On what? On what? On the Lakers. He played. I'm talking about the niggas who didn't play. I can't even talk about. I can't even tell you.

Who was that? Like the golden? No, he wasn't on there. That's later. Oh, no, no. That's later. Madden. Madsen?

Max. Manson? Matt. First thing, there was a bunch of niggas on the bitch that didn't play. I know. Who was some of the other ones? We don't know. You don't know.

Like the Golden State, right? There was a bunch of niggas on the team at the end, 1415, that nobody knows. It was out of the league the next year. Let's wrap this year. Nah, I got a question. Before we go. I know one of them because he gets to do this all the time. He gets to do this all the time at the end of the picture.

I wasn't a 14. What numbers are you? I was right behind Eagle Dollar. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hey, that was smart, boy. That was smart, boy. I like what you did right there. Who was that?

Who was that dude? He won three champions. He's the last thing of the three feet. Patrick McCall? Yeah, it was his last thing of the three Pete. He ain't played no games. I like what you did right now. I like what you did right now.

He was the last player to three Pete. You had a question before we go? So my question is, Let's tap into that, like, the Braun and the Kobe thing, because I think when we talk about Bronn, obviously, we hold him to high regards of what he was able to accomplish, rightfully so. But when you look at Braun and you look at Cole, Braun is the system. Do we agree with that? Brun is the system. Kobe played in a system.

do you think if Braun played in a system like the triangle and Cobb was the system do they have the same type success

individually hmm that's the question you got through a deep thought right now upon so you put so put Ron so put Brian in the triangle

with shack in the triangle no take put him in the car I'm just saying put him in the triangle

it doesn't okay put him in a triangle yeah okay does he have that same success as a player who Kobe

both of them if if if cold played like brunt pace control and tempo facilitating how path the ball

now he ain't no no so could so so so so so what you The 81.

No, no, okay, so if you're taking, if I take it. So, Braun can't play like, Bronn can't play like Cobb or Colb can't play like Bronb in the system. Cobb can't play like Bronb. I got to give them, I got to give them those teams too then. Give them the teams. So I got to give them the teams. The teams, he scored all the points on and they didn't win nothing because he wouldn't, he

wouldn't, he don't care about them. So he don't win. He's going to get the scoring. He's going to get all the scoring titles. He's going to get the scoring titles. I don't win. He had a record. In Schumerant, for sure.

But he's not going to win swag? No, but I don't think LeBron could be like Kobe, though. That's the thing. I don't think LeBron would never win a championship. See, in a triangle. In a triangle, I think. You got it, because he got to shoot and do all that, all the stuff. He can't driving.

Ain't no driving lanes from him. Because I'm in a trial. Here's what I'll say. Here's what I say to this. If Braun. Brun got introduced to the triangle at an early age. That's different. Brun would have expanded his game.

That would be different. Tremendously. Yeah. We probably would be seeing he's not as fast for Uber athlete like he once was. But if we take Brun who he is now with the athleticism, speed and everything, agility, And put him in that triangle, learning that, I think we're talking about, I don't think it's a question. Yeah, you couldn't. I don't think there's a question who the greatest player would be.

But to me, would he be better than cold? No. And the reason I said, no, it's because it becomes the, he'd be a better winner. Because the triangle is this. It's it makes you play because I played in a Princeton What happens with the triangle is this I can't focus directly on you Because it's a UCLA cuts

Right, it's a lot of movements Everybody the weakness moves Yes and it forces us from From really trying to guard you yep So now I got a cut It gives you space now now everybody doesn't move through Now I get to do my one-on-one right So because Braun is so unselfish, all this extra moving he does will have elevated his passing.

And then when he decided to go, you can't stop him. Right. So it helped him become a winner faster, even though he was really smart. Yeah. So those little. So here's a question. Like the boobie Gibson's and stuff in a triangle would have. actually helped him a lot. So when we talk about basketball, right, we talk about not having

any flaws in your game, right? So if Braun is able to play in a system and be able to be the system and one can't be the system, but he could be in a system who's the best basketball player. And I'm not saying one or not, I'm just posing a question. Because we're saying Braun can play in the triangle. Are we saying that, right? And we're saying Brown is a system. And we're saying Cobb can't be, he could beat a system but he won't win. Is that what we're saying? I don't know.

You should don't know. No, no. It's like, it's like, someone's it's no different than I got to so I got every, every thing he's won where he's been in a triangle. And it reminds me of this. It reminds me of, you take

Colb out of the triangle. It's no different than taking and Colb and putting him with Rudy T. Right? Oh. He is the early MJ, right? You're out there scoring 35 because it's all you, fucking everybody else. That's what I'm saying.

Right? So we get that version of him. Well, but, but, but. Look at a team. I know, no. No, but what I said? We still get the version of a guy who's going to go one-on-one. He's going to try to get the scoring ties MVP's. And then what ends up happen is once you put him in a system,

it makes it easier for and a system is this I look at it like this if I look at your team and your team sucks and you're out there having 30 35 40 that's what you're supposed to do

yeah like people don't look at that if a guy average is 32 and they're going through practice every day and they went through training camp and he averages 32 there's a reason there's a pecking order and god damn it that's him right so you're expected when your team is a championship team

did you individually recognize that it was to sacrifice enough to win and Kobe early knew his team was a championship team and said yeah that fuck all that I already got through it him I want to be

individual and when he got Paul Gassal he realized I think we're good enough to win and I'm going to sacrifice in winning in his system And that's what, that's when I was like, okay, he's really that dude. And when Shaq was in Orlando, when Shaq was in Miami,

and he realized, okay, I'm a number two now. Yeah. And said, Dee Wade, do your thing. Okay. Now, with Braun, there was times where he was sacrificing to win, when his team wasn't good enough to win yet. And I said, you know, as a player, if I'm going to win a championship, I'm obviously a second option on a championship team.

I would want to play with Braun because what he needs, that's what I'm good. For sure. I mean, one-on-one player and I can hit backers. Yeah, he needs to de ways of Cairo. So play like Kyrie. And he was hard enough to recognize that's your talent. But that's what I'm saying. I think that's where

his game didn't grow. I'm saying in a triangle it grows. It grows. Right? And now he becomes a complete player because you have to be the closer in this in the triangle. And it gives you the clearance

and space to operate because of all the other shit that's going on. I think he would have been learned the footwork, play with his back to the basket, because that's what he did in the basket. You know what I'm saying? Like, he would have mastered. Yeah, he would have, it, the triangle forces you footwork. Yes.

Yes. And that's what he, that's what he lacked. Like, he was horrible as a one-on-one player. Can you see him doing that, though? He too. No, we can only, no, no, no, I'm saying he could have, I'm saying, in that, in the triangle, he would have developed that. He has to. He would have developed that, and he would have been no question. In a triangle, but do you might think about the triangle.

I don't think of Brian doing footwork. Because we only see what we see it. He got it. Like, the triangle. Once you get into NBA, I'm pretty sure you realize it. He's too strong to be doing this shit. That's this one. The first one came in.

He did it. He came in as a shooting guard first. He was doing it. No, LeBron was a shooting guard when he came into the NBA. He guarded me when I was in Washington and then moved to the three when he started growing more. Did you notice this when you got into the NBA? You said, grew up? And you said you realized people couldn't do nothing.

Did you realize at this level? some of these guys was sorry as fuck well I didn't want to say like no what I'm saying I didn't want to say it but that's what I was referring to what I was referring to what I'm saying

I'm sitting here like I used to you sit there and you watch them and you just like you know what because some Mark Jackson was like listen fuck watching this as a basketball game just find one player and just watch it just watch them just move in and see who you are

and I'm sitting here like all right okay Obviously, the point, I'm going to just watch him. And he's just watching his game, just him on defense, and I'm like, he's sorry. This is not what I, this is, like, I know he's all, I know he's all fucking NBA first team, but he sucks. That's what, that's, like, oh, shit, no, I, no, take that back. Hold on, ain't nobody all NBA first team, sorry, Gil, fuck that.

No, give me don't say no name, we got to live here. You got to live here. Ain't nobody on NBA first scene. Oh, NBA first scene? You crazy. Gil, please don't do it. If you can't go left, hold on. If you can't go left, you can't shoot, you can't do this, you suck.

Give me this year. I don't want to say, well, yeah. Thank you, Bill. Thank you, Bill. It's a new year. All I'm saying is, give me this. All I'm saying is, there wasn't all defensive teams, right? Yeah.

Oh. Once I realized you, I started averaging 30, 35, 35, 35. Because I know your weaknesses now. I realize, like, I... You're talking about all defense. No, period. That's some bullshit, though. Period.

I'm going to tell you, the all-defense a team? I ain't like, bro, come on. What I'm saying is like, listen, you played, you look at a guy, and you say, you can't go left, you can't come off the screen very good. You can't, like, what are you good at? Like, how are you... I see you got 25, but you're not that. You're not what I see on TV, though. like that when I got to the Wizards.

Like you just, I just started breaking people's game down. Hold on. You were playing I was talking with Roger Mason. Now, you just realized, man, niggins ain't. Hey, listen, people ain't good, good like that. No, I'm just saying people ain't good. People wasn't good, good like that.

It was the reason I came in, I came in, and I started winning awards. Hold on, Bill. Hold on, though. Good like that. Was he, he had a good floater? I'm just saying it wasn't good like that. Everybody, everybody was replaced. Guess who, now?

We're playing a guess who. Sometimes maybe the team record got you on the team. Because the individual skills wasn't even like that. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying. We're playing guesser. I'm saying first team. I'm saying 50.

Sometimes. Stevie Pee. No, I'm saying 40, the 50 to 52. All y'all wasn't. All y'all wasn't individually like that. He didn't talking about Steve. It was the team. It was the team.

Your teams. You don't think about first team. All I see is AI, you and Kobe. That's what I'm saying. I didn't say first team. I was a first team. No, you said first team. You said first team.

You said first team. So I'm just thinking AI. You said first team. Oh, my bad. I'm just talking all NBA. All NBA. All NBA. All right.

All right. All right. That's 15. That's 15. And there wasn't, you wasn't all, there was it all 15. Back then. All 15. Listen, top 15.

Like, if you first team, third, you're talking about if you were guard, that means you're top six. Six. You're top six in the league. And if you were four, you're a sport. You're top. You got a Ray Allen. If you're a small four to the third team, you're saying you're third. Top three, please.

Top three. Please. Top three. I know exactly what you're talking about. It was a bunch of miles. I'm sitting here like. But that's the league, though, bro. That is the league.

You know this shit, bro. You know this is the league. That's why, like, all those, the All-Stars and all the, some of the bullshit. All-N-B-A? Nah, man. I mean, not all-N-A, but all defensive teams? Yeah, I was. Nah.

Because I've seen some cast on them list, like, nah. Like, how do you, like, how do you read it? I'm like, I was, I was bothered by the nigga that picked me up full court. Nah. Like, oh, no way he got, no way he got on all defensive team, bro. Like, who, who he's stopping now? Like I don't look at the box score 40 40 40 he's second team This the first time you ain't said his name, but this the first time you ain't said somebody name

He must be scared of thank you Gil No, don't say this one don't say this don't say this I want to know we got whispers It's not what name that's not Gail don't say nah don't we ain't gonna do that right now Why you wear every one but Oh all right as well and on that note T-Mack we appreciate you pulling up. Make sure y'all check out one basketball league OBL coming soon.

Check Team Mac out on NBA on NBC making their comeback this season. Hey, where are your other crew at? They ain't want to fuck with me? What are they at? Oh, they hell? No, we wasn't, we're not in season right down. We thought y'all trying to jump me when he told me to come.

That's not going to be doing Team Mac. I ain't about to jump me on. This has been another episode of Gills Arena, presented by Underdog. Whoa! We'll be back. more very soon.