Girl on Guy with Aisha Tyler - girl on guy 187: sam rockwell

Episode Date: June 3, 2015

join sam rockwell and aisha as they reminisce over plans and their destruction, relative poverty, jedi training, dance moves, life altering experiences, youthful facades and working with walken. plus sam does a dance with a moving truck and lives to tell the tale. girl on guy is done standing on the side of the wall.

Hey everyone, it's time for my annual fan appreciation event at Comic-Con 2015. Here's how to win tickets at 9 a.m. East Coast time, 6 a.m. Pacific on Friday, June 12th. Send me an email at contest at girlon guy.net. That's contest at girlon guy.net. And put in the subject line, hashtag boosh, the pound sign. B-O-O-S-H. Send that in. The first 100 people will win tickets to meet me at Comic-Con in San Diego. The weekend of July 10th, it'll be Saturday, July 11th.

Saturday, July 11th is the event. We do not provide travel. We do not provide hotel rooms. But if you can get yourself to San Diego, you can come meet me. It's a super fun day. We give out T-shirts and stickers and books and sign posters, and we take pictures of everybody. Last year we handed out my beer, Woodstout,

that will probably happen again in some fashion. It's an amazing day where not only do you guys get to meet me, but you get to meet other Girl on Guy fanatics, and it is so much fun for me to tell you guys how amazing you are. And the first 25 people that respond will get tickets to see a live taping of Girl on Guy that same day. So, once again, if you want to win tickets to the annual fan appreciation event on July 11th, Saturday, July 11th in San Diego,

here's what you do. You wake up super early the morning of Friday. Friday, June 12th. 9 a.m. East Coast, 6am. Pacific, send me an email at contest at girlon guy.net. That's contest at girl on guy.net with the subject line, hashtag boosh, and the first 100 people will win tickets, and the top 25 of those, the first 25 of those will win tickets to see a live recording of girl and guy. It's always an amazing experience. I love getting to meet my fans, and I would love to meet you this year. So get ready. Friday, June 12. 9 a.m. East Coast, 6 a.m. Pacific, not 8.59 or 5.59. 9 a.m. East Coast, 6 a.m. Pacific. Get up. Set your

alarms. Send me an email. And I'll see you in San Diego. This is Girl on Guy. Hey, everybody. This is Girl on Guy, 187. Welcome to the show. Welcome. Super happy to be here with you now. Just a bit of news before we get into this show. This show. This is a little. is an exciting time for me. It's June. It's officially summer. Well, I don't know. It was probably officially summer a few weeks ago, but it's summer for me. And June and July are unique months because it is, we are deep into, no longer the slow slide, but the headlong, panic-driven tumble towards the end of season four. You know, I always take the show on hiatus in August so that I can become a person again. But between now and hiatus, it is just one penny-tasting, mouthful of

blood, perilous journey trying to make as many things as I possibly can for all of you before I go dormant for the month of August. And 2015 is as loaded as I've ever been. So here's what's coming up between now and the end of season 4 for Girl and Guy. Many, many amazing episodes that have not aired yet. I am brewing a brand new beer for HopCon at Comic Con this year, which is going to be very exciting. As you know, I did Wootzout last year in a collaboration with Will Wheaton and Drew Curtis, and I will be doing another stone beer collaboration this year, which you can drink. joyfully and gleefully at Comic-Con, should you make it down to San Diego in July and come to HopCon,

which will be the Wednesday before Comic-Con. That is Wednesday, July 8th. Lots of exciting things happening in San Diego. Even if you don't have passes to the Comic-Con floor, that doesn't mean there's no reason to come to San Diego, and I will tell you why in a minute. Before Comic-Con, you can enjoy me streaming live. Monday, June 15th, as I helm for the fourth time,

the Ubisoft press conference at E3. If you've never heard of E-3 or to have been to E-3, This is the major video gaming conference for developers and the people that love them. And I will be helming the Ubisoft Press Conference on Monday, June 15th. There's a 245 free show, and then 3 p.m. Pacific Time. It will be streaming live at YouTube.com slash Ubisoft. That's YouTube.com slash Ubisoft. All kinds of gaming madness will be washing over you, courtesy of my speaking and mouth hole.

Not my ideas, but I'm just presenting them to the world. But it's such a fun time. And if you love gaming and you want to watch me jump around like an idiot because I love gaming so much, then that is an opportunity to do. So that is Monday, June 15th, 3 p.m. Pacific Time at YouTube.com slash Ubisoft. And then not so far after that will be Comic-Con. Now, this year we are doing, as you heard at the top of the show, the annual fan appreciation event at Comic-Con on Saturday, July 11th.

And as I mentioned, if you want to win tickets, you need to be up very early on Friday, June 12th, and send me an email 9am East Coast time, 6am Pacific, at contest at girl on guy.net. The address is contest at girl on guy.net. And the subject line should read hashtag bush. That's the pound sign, B-O-O-O-S-H. The first 100 people to send in an email to me will win tickets to that event. As I have mentioned, we do not provide travel, we do not provide hotel, but you will get a ticket to see me in person. We give away lots of amazing presents. We sign pictures and posters. We take photos with the fans. And there may be some additional enticements,

including liquid refreshments available to my fans. It's not just an opportunity to meet me, it's an opportunity to meet the rest of the community of Growing Guy Fanatics. So if you want to come to that event, it's a great reason, an addition to Hopcon, to get to San Diego the weekend of July 10th. Hopcon is on Wednesday, July 8th, and then my event will be Saturday, July 11th.

Why not build a vacation all around the madness that is Comic Con, even if you don't have floor passes? The whole town is filled with people in mad cosplay, and every two minutes you see somebody who is like a zombie stormtrooper or Tyrion Lannister just had sex with the Borg. It's the best. So it's a reason to make the pilgrimage if you had made it before. And one more time, Friday, June 12th is your time to enter 9-Aistern, 6th Pacific.

Send an email to contest at girlongai.net with the subject line hashtag Bouch to win tickets to that event in San Diego, Saturday, July 11th. We do not provide travel or hotel. but if you make it San Diego by hook or by crook, we will fet you in a most miraculous and marvelous way. And the top 25 respondents, the first 25 people to write in will get tickets additionally to watch a very special live episode of Girl and Guy being taped at Comic Con. These are wonderful things.

After that, I'll be at Tales of the Cocktail, which is an industry event for cocktail professionals, bartenders, and spirits companies. I'll be there promoting courage and stone. If you already go to Tales of the Cocktail, good for you. You're drunk. If you don't already go to Tails with Cocktail, never fear you don't need to be a bartender.

Anybody can buy tickets and you just get to taste spirits for four or five days. Very, very fun. I'll be there wrapping Curgeon and Stone, which launches at the end of this year. And wonderful things are happening. We're delayed slightly, but for only the most wonderful of reasons. We're just trying to make the product as perfect as possible. So I will be at Tails doing some celebrity bartending

and some celebrity drinking. And so if you're planning on being in New Orleans the weekend of July 16th through the 19th, well, track me down like a boozy wearer. Waldo. I will be there. Okay, today's sponsor is Casper Mattresses, obsessively engineered American-made mattresses at a shockingly fair price. So here's the deal. You spend about a third of your life sleeping, and I'm sure another additional third of your life lying in bed wishing you were sleeping or watching television or despairing over the turns that your life has taken or masturbating. I don't know what you do all day. But if you're going to do these things in bed, I don't know,

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mattress. Now is your time because when you get a Casper mattress and you use the promo code Girl on Guy, you are letting Casper know that their money was well spent by advertising with us. So support Casper because they support Girl on Guy. Check that out. All right. This episode of Girl and Guy is with Sam Rockwell. And if you don't know Sam Rockwell, you actually do know Sam Rockwell because he has been in so many films. So many films that I can't name them all here. He's got a new movie out right now, which is a poltergeist remake, but that matters none because he's been in so many kick-ass films, including breakthrough roles in a box of moonlight and lawn dogs, the lead in confessions of a dangerous mind, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy,

choke the incredible film Moon and the recent film Stembed Psychopaths, as well as an extraordinary supporting role in the Green Mile and Galaxy Quest. Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford. He's done so many movies. He's an insanely talented actor. And beyond that, Sam and I went to high school together. So this entire conversation will be colored by the fact that we've known each other since we were kids. And I think you will find it adds a lovely dimension to the conversation because we're old buddies. And we do a lot of reminiscing in this conversation.

Sam is a super talent and a sweet guy. And like I said, you've seen him in something, probably multiple things. And you're probably like, oh, that's that character guy who's so awesome. Well, this conversation is with that character guy who's so awesome. And he's also my friend. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Girl and Guy 187 with Sam Rockwell of a thousand movies, including the most recent Poltergeist, which is in theaters now. And it's coming at you, straight out of the Girl and Guy Bunker and right into your face. Sam Rockwell.

Hey, Aisha Tyler, come on. Welcome to my show. So it's a whiskey bar. It's a whiskey bar that we're going to go to after this. Yeah, and you're going to pour me a little bit of whiskey now. Not too much because I have to drive us there. Brilliant. So this is super exciting because we haven't seen each other in a very long time, but we go way, way, way back.

But what I said to you before we started was, Cheers, that despite the fact that we've known to each other since we were kids, partially because of a shitty memory and partially because people are a mystery, I don't think I know everything about you or even that much. And so I want to just do the thing where we start at the very beginning. We're just going to start at the beginning. So tell me where you were born. Daily City, which is right near San Francisco. I had a little house there for a while. And then my first memories were in New York, though. Really?

In the Bronx. And actually, in Harlem, which was technically 136 Street in Riverside. I don't know if that is Harlem or not, but we were... I think everything above like a hundredth is Harlem. Yeah, yeah. And we thought it was Spanish Harlem, although technically it's not. Spanish Harlem is the east side. We were on the west side.

Mm-hmm. But I had Cuban babysitters. Your parents were artists, right? They were artists. And what happened is my mother and father were actors. They went to ACT. Mm-hmm. It's a big acting school in San Francisco.

Big acting school. Famous acting school. Famous acting school. And they met there? They met at San Francisco State. Mm-hmm. I love it. It's great.

It's great. You want to know all this shit? I want to know. You know who wants to know. everybody listening wants to know all this shit. And so do I. About your dad. We'll talk about my dad at the end. I'm so curious. Your dad was a cool guy. Yeah. So they met and then

my dad was dodging the draft and so he got married at my mom and they said, well let's have a baby and you won't have to go to Nam. And they were coming out. He was in the tour of the Great White Hope, which is a play about Jack Johnson. If anybody doesn't know, was one of the great boxers of all time. And James Earl Jones did it on Broadway,

and then Yuffin Koto replaced him. And my dad was in the road company with an actor named Brock Peters. And I remember, I don't remember, I just remember pictures of me, trick-or-treating with Brock Peters' daughter in a hotel room when we were on tour. Oh, wow.

But they moved back to New York. My mother, they had a house, they spent a lot of money. My mother was living on her. father's life insurance. So they moved to the Bronx. They were slowly kind of losing all their money. Right. But they had bought in these fancy things like she had a piano. Right. And so then they slowly ran out of money, but they still had like the piano. And they went to 136 Street. So we were essentially broke, you know, poor, but we had a piano in Harlem. So that was kind of odd. And we were essentially broke, you know, poor, but we had a piano in Harlem. So that was kind of odd. And we were. And we were, We were eating spam, but my mother would sing and, you know, and we were, you know, my dad was mugged and everything, but like, he had to go get a real job and she was still auditioning.

And then. How old were you at this time? I was about four, and I remember I could draw on the walls with crayons. They would let me draw on the walls. Yeah. And then we moved to California, live with my grandma. When you left New York, was it because they just felt like it was unaffordable to them? They basically, they separated.

She wanted to stay in New York, and she really couldn't handle having a kid. So my father took me, and he went to my grandmothers. Then we went to San Diego, and then we went back to my grandmothers. Then we moved to San Francisco, and we lived in the Castro. Yeah. And I actually met Harvey Moke when I was like, you know, eight. Wow. Wow.

You know, he just had the photo lab shop. Yeah. And then my dad became a, um, a printer. He did a lot of jobs, a lot of jobs. He was a counselor. It was just the taxi driver. Just like you. Yeah.

He was like, you know, the courtship of Eddie's father. Yeah, just like me. Yeah. You know, and it was, he was a single parent. Yeah. And he finally got a good job, a union job as a printer when I was like nine. And up until then, it was pretty sketchy. You know, we lived on Eddie Street for a while.

Yeah, that's a tenderline? Tenderline, you know. It wasn't great. Did that make you anxious when you were kid? Because I think sometimes when you were a kid, you don't have that much of a sense that you're poor. You just... No, I know. You were in the film war.

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Right, you know, blocks from the Pink Palace. And, you know, you'd kind of... I remember walking home from the bus, like, down the middle of the street. Just... No, you don't have a sense.

You could see people coming. What's that? She can see people coming. You know what I mean? But yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. But yeah, you don't have that much of a sense that it's bad or good. You know, you're kind of eating spam with butter or, you know, whatever. and you're like, oh, this is good.

My dad's thing was rice eroni. Riceeroni. I lived on ricearoni. Riceeroni, the San Francisco treat. It really is. Yeah, and, you know, all that stuff. Everything was ground beef, you know. Everything was like ground beef.

It was strenging off with ground beef. Spaghetti, tacos, powdered sauce. I remember because rice errone was three for a dollar, three boxes for a dollar. It was like such a good deal. And then if we were feeling really flush, my dad would get chicken and put some chicken in it. Yeah. You just, you did what you could, but I don't remember thinking I don't love rice errone. I'm like, right.

It's right. It's right. That's right, that's right. So, you know, that's, that was sort of the existence. And then, as you know, being, having a single dad, and then he had a lot of different girlfriends, you know, which is weird, you know, get kind of angry about that. And then he got remarried. And then he had sort of a better job when I was about nine.

And then it became more of a middle class existence with him and her, my stepmother's income. And things financially kind of changed. but then, you know, there was, it was hard. It's always hard with a step-parent, and then she tried. She did the best she could, but, you know, we did, it was, it's always hard, that dynamic. Yeah. You were, I mean, one thing I... Did your father get remarried, or?

No, well, not until I was an adult, but he had a lot of girlfriends. And he would go out, I think maybe the difference between the two of us is that he would go out a lot, and then I would be home alone. Yeah. And, you know, I'm not like, want-want, because it worked out great for me. Yeah. I had a lot of independence. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, and I think if I was a parent, it would not have been particularly pleased with that way I spent my time.

But, you know, I started partying really early. Yeah. But what I do remember was I think he wanted to keep me away from these women. And I do remember, and I don't know if this happened with your stepmom or any of the women your dad dated. But my dad got in a motorcycle accident and he broke both of his legs. And so for a while, we had to go live with one of his girlfriends so, like he could, she was taking care of him. And she was a cunt. Yeah.

She was just the worst. And I could analyze her and say that she resented me or whatever, but she just was super controlling and made it her mission to kind of make me feel shitty about myself. And I think we were both kind of relatively out, maybe not outgoing kids, but like kind of self-aware. And you had an identity that was very specific. You knew who you were and you were kind of testing things. And so when we were in high school? When we were in high school, yeah. And I think, you know, a fake identity.

But you were trying to figure out who you were. You weren't sitting in the corner. You kind of were. Like we all were. Yeah. Yeah, we were all experimenting and trying to figure it out. And so if you met someone who was a relatively controlling personality and felt like they had come in and make their mark,

you know, there was a lot of conflict. I don't know if that was what happened with your stepmom. Yes, yes, I think you're right. I think you're absolutely right. And, in fact, I think that's what you and I probably had in common, although I probably was a little shyer than you in some ways, but I feel like we both had dynamic personalities right off, you know. Yeah.

And, you know, like Dan Harper and Paul Talley-Ferererer Remember Paul Taliafairo? Yes, I do remember Paul Talia Farrow. You know, there were a dynamic person at Margaret Show. Our whole group was very dynamic. Jerry Lawler. And Todd, I mean, even Todd, you know, just people who kind of... Jason, yeah.

Yeah, it's interesting, you know, when you're... Especially when you're that age, like kind of 14, 15, 16, you kind of think you know more about the world than you do. Yeah. But you're also just testing the world and yourself. And, you know, a lot of... A lot of what happens is... is like you reaching like two or three steps past where you actually are developmentally, which I think is a big part of growing up.

And I think for all of us, like, I don't know for you, for me, for Todd, we didn't really have super active parents. My dad was very loving and he was present, but he was present mentally, but it wasn't like around. You know what I mean? Yeah. So we all had a lot of independence. Yeah, we did.

Which we used to drink and smoke. Do you remember black label beer? I do remember black label beer. It was, yes. It was terrible. By today's standards. Oh, you know what it was? Cheapius, voluminous and cheap, yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Was you an urban pioneer at one point? No, no, you avoided that. You and Todd left, and I stayed at Mac, and you guys both went and did urban pioneers. That's right. But I want to go back. We'll come back to high school.

Yeah, okay, okay. You're living with your dad. And your dad's, go ahead. No, no, go ahead, go ahead. I was going to say, and your dad's an actor. Yeah. And you were saying that, you know, your dad's dating and he's, yeah.

Do you feel like the anger that you had that it manifests itself in a certain way? Like, were you rebellious? Did you run away? Yeah, I, you know, did all that typical. When he got married, I shoplifted and stuff and did all that stuff. But I, you know, he, yeah, he gave up his acting career to raise me. You know, he had to go get a real job, you know.

And so he did every job you can imagine. And then. Did he miss it? I think he does miss it. He got back into it. when about 10 years, 15 years ago, and he did some short films. He took a Meisner acting class that I told him to go, and he did all, you know, and he got into it for a while, and then he did some hand modeling.

Lovely. And some money doing that. And now he's retired, and he just rides his bike, and I helped him get an apartment in Santa Monica. And he's doing good. He's here in L.A. now. He's here in L.A. That's lovely. Yeah, that's nice. And we usually stay at this sort of cheap motel in San Francisco.

go, excuse me, right in Pacific Heights, like really cheap hotel. And I may be outgrowing that, that motel. Your big movie star now, so. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just step it up to a two-star from a one-star. Yeah. The last time I was there, I was like, this is kind of, I can do better with this bed.

So, but it's such a great bargain. But, you know, we essentially get a one-bedroom apartment for really cheap. But anyway, I go back there sometimes, you know, but I miss it. I love it there, you know, but yeah, so that's it. So then I went to that school of the arts and all the crap. So when was it in your childhood that you decided that you, because when I met you were already acting? So when was it that you decided to be an actor? I would visit my mother in the summer and she didn't have a babysitter and she was still acting and singing telegrams.

And she was a starving actor. And so she would take me with her to the rehearsals for the plays she was doing. And so then one day, our friend John Giler said, why don't we put Sam in this sketch? It was kind of an improv sketch-based show called Joan Crawford's Children. And they put me in a sketch about Casablanca doing Humphrey Bogart. And then after that, they put me, they made me Flo Ziegfield. And then I was in this play. and then the following summer

I did another play a musical called Sky Rape about World War I and then It's a forceful name It's a forceful name Sky Rape You're feeling it when you hear that name Yeah exactly

You're in for Yeah and then that was And then And then I sort of got the bug And then I kind of messed around And then in high school I didn't take it very seriously And then I

You know I got that movie at the end. Yeah. I mean, when you, even though you didn't take it seriously, from the outside,

it did seem like you really knew what you were doing and what you wanted to do. You know what I mean? Well, that's nice to hear. Yeah. I mean, it did. It really,

it seemed like you had a lot of clarity, which probably always seems to other people like we have more clarity. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Yeah. Well, you had a spark, and Margaret had a spark, you know, and it was like...

Oh, you definitely had a spark. Jerry Lawler had a spark, and what's his name? The shy guy. You know, Ken. Oh, yeah, Ken. What's Ken's, not what, not me. He was a brilliant improvisation.

Yeah, there was a good group of people there. Yeah. But you didn't, but you, and did you think, okay, when I graduate? No, I didn't really take it seriously. Even when I did the movie, I did this movie Clown House, and then I went to New York after high school, And I got a couple of commercials. I was working in restaurants, busing tables,

bust LL Cool J. and Madonna, Russell Simmons. Wow. Where were you looking? Where were you working? Where were you working? I was working at a place called the Time Cafe that was very a hip place,

and you'd see a lot of movie stars and stuff there. And L.L. Cool J. I was hitting on this waitress. Actually, I still know her. She works sometimes at the chateau, and she, um, I was,

I was hitting on her. And I eventually became best friends with her boyfriend, but I was saying, you know, I was trying to sort of, uh, warm up to her. And then she went up to LL's table.

And she came back smiling. And I said, what's, what's going on? What did he say to you? And he said, and I said, I asked him if you want a dessert.

He said, can you jump on a plate? And that was, and I was like, That's the coolest fucking thing I've ever heard of life. I got to use that one. Seriously. Just wrap that up, put it in your pocket for later.

Yeah, that was like, that's good. Yeah. So, you know, smooth. So, you know, you just interviewed him today. He was just in a few hours ago. He's a cool, yeah, he's a pretty cool guy, yeah. I mean, what I told him, and I think it's relevant to what we're talking about, is that I grew up on his music, but I specifically remember when rock the bells came out

and I can live with the red. We were in high school. And he's our age. So it was he was, he was, he was, he was, 15, 16 years old. So maybe we were like one year younger than him when he had his first hit. Yeah. And I just remember living in the film war and listening to Rock the Bells. Yeah, big time.

Oh, yeah. That was huge. Rock, I used to have parties and we would play rock box and then we would all compete for who knew the lyrics best. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All that stuff. All that shit. Buffalo Kings were on the outside. Egypt, Egypt. Oh, my God. You, did you have a, you moved to New York and did you have a plan?

You didn't have a plan. I didn't have a plan. I didn't have a plan. I just went, great picture. I went, I went there just, and my mom was living with my stepfather in Parkslow, Brooklyn. I lived with them for about a year. And then I moved out, and I lived with all these crazy characters, performance. artists, sublets for years.

And there was a woman named Natasha Shulman and there was a bunch of crazy adventures in the late 80s, early 90s. And then about 91, I was busing tables or barbacking or something and I was living on the floor of my parents'

apartment again, Bleaker Street. And it was the only way I could have afforded to study acting and I went and I did the summer program with Bill Esper and a six-week program and I said, all right, well, I'm an actor now. He said, well, why don't you take the two-year program?

And he was like, I was like, yeah, you know, I'm busy. I'm doing commercials and busing tables. Yeah, I'm busy. Your dance cart's full. Yeah. I hear you. He's like, yeah, that's cool. But, you know, it'll go by like that.

You know, just do it. And he said, what if I get a job? He's like, well, you know, we'll figure it out. Just just take the class. So I took it and it changed my life. And that's where I met my acting coach, Terry Nickerbocker, and this great teacher, Maggie Flanagan. And William Esper was a great teacher.

And that's when those two years are when I, and I met one of my best friends, Yule Vasquez, and Jenny Beals was in the summer program. She was great. And her husband, Alex Rockwell, got me into films. He got you into films, like he. He got me into one of his first films in the soup. And he sort of started getting it.

It was when Tarantino was just kind of starting. It was that whole, when independent films were, really blowing up in New York. Yeah. And then I started doing theater here and there, and I joined the lab with Yule and all this stuff. But the two-year program is what really, that's when I was like, okay,

this is really something I need to take seriously. This is an art form, and this is something to be, it's like Jedi training. Like, this needs to be, you know, paid with respect. Right, right. You know, like going to Second City or Groundlings or something. And that it felt more immersive to you than the way you'd approach it. It was more of a hobby.

And all of a sudden this is like, this is who I am. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like it's one thing we're in batwing lubricant, but then, you know, you're doing stand-up. Yeah. Well, that became my life. And that's your training. And that's your training, you know.

And then Margaret's doing, and then that was my sort of, that was my thing. You know, my stand-up was like, you know, it was formative. So that's kind of when I started taking it more seriously. Yeah. I mean, I definitely think, like I said, from afar, what's been so interesting about watching your career, like your creative life, is how, at least observationally, how singularly devoted you've been to it.

And it's not like there are other actors that aren't committed to it, but there's just been this really lovely kind of purity, at least it's seen from the outside, you just really, it's been all you've done, you know? Thanks. And then you have these monumental accomplishments, in my opinion, anyway, creatively that have come out of it. But a lot of people, you know, they think about it more in terms of

um, uh, this isn't even the right word. I'm sorry, but I can't think of another way to describe it. Maybe this will help. Uh, you know, celebrity or yes, the booze will help, uh, you know, celebrity or whatever versus like, you just, you've been this purest, you know, and I wonder if that was by choice, because it's not like you haven't worked. You work constantly. That's nice of you to say. I mean, yeah, I mean, I mean, you know, I think you and I both do and I, And it's a blessing, you know. I don't use that word very often. That's okay.

You know what I mean. Yeah. It's good. So we're lucky. Yeah. Part of the elite of people who do that. Right. You worked with Chris Walken, didn't you?

I did. That's right. I worked with you. You and I have that in common. What movie did you guys do together? We did a play together, and then we did a movie Seven Psychopass. Yeah. Yeah.

Tell me. Okay, so I have three questions about this. Okay. Yeah. And then I want to talk about. He, so, you know, by the time I work with him, he was already, like, just way past legendary. And I knew, too, and he's been that way for a long time. So there's always, like, this sense of, like, a little bit of awe that you have around him.

Yeah. But he's very, like, lovely and, you know, kind of, oddly congenial, and he's got great stories. He got me with the birthday thing. I don't know if he ever got you with the birthday thing. He never did the birthday thing on you. What's the birthday thing? He has this thing where he shows up at work and he acts depressed. and then you ask him what's wrong.

And I was his sidekick. So I was with him all day every day for like whatever, the length of the movie. And I, and we sat together all day. And we, you know, we were both in this crazy drag. So we'd help each other up and down these steps. I mean, you know, and he had his nails painted, red for the whole movie. And he would just like go around L.A. with these red nails. And he was just, he's so like, like wonderful and crazy.

Yeah, he's great. So he, this one day he's sad. And he's like, I'm like, Chris, what's wrong? I would come home every night. Be like, I got me and Chris did this. Me and Chris did this. was like in love with him. Yeah,

yeah, just like, as an acolyte, you know. Yeah, of course. So he's like, I'm sad.

Like, what's wrong? He's like, it's my birthday today. And, you know, I'm all alone and far away from home. And I'm like,

oh my God, that's terrible. He's like, it's okay. I'll call my mom. She'll make me feel better. So I, like, run off.

And I'm like, we've got to get Chris a cake. No one knows it's birthday. I send, like, I can't get off set. So I send like, make of hair. People like get balloons, get a card, get a cake.

We get all this stuff together. We put it all in his trailer. He's on set. And then we go in to surprise him, you know. And then the minute we start singing, he gives me this look. And I was like, you, motherfucker. Oh, my God. I knew it.

Oh, my God. It's amazing. It was amazing. It was great. It was great. And I was like, well, Lisa got cake out of it. Yeah. And apparently he does it like on every show.

So you got, you dodged a bullet. Oh, my God. I was so mad. I'm surprised. He, amazing. I'm sure he did it to somebody. I'm actually kind of hurt that I didn't do that to me. That's amazing.

Maybe you didn't seem gullible, Sam. But I was just like, Chris is lovely. That's amazing. That's amazing. It was so bad. That's awesome. What was it like working with him for you, though? I had a great time with him.

He told me some great stories, you know. I did the Kevin Pollock podcast, actually. I think I told a couple of stories. I don't want to repeat myself, but I think I said... Different audiences. Different audiences, yeah. Well, he was just really generous. We had these 15 minutes before...

We did a Martin McDonough play called Behanninghamost Spokane with Anthony Mackey and Zoe Kazan. And we had some scenes together and we had this one like 15 minute period backstage in the green room where he was coming off stage and I was about to go on stage. And we would sit in the green room and read the newspaper and just bullshit and just random things would come up.

And, you know, he was really... I had to go maybe do a... western. I was thinking about doing this movie, Cowboys and Aliens, and he was like, be careful, you know, horses, the wranglers are dumber than horses. Be careful. I said, well, these wranglers are really good, you know, I mean, that's, that's what he says, you did Heaven's Gate. That was a long time ago, Chris. You know, I mean, yeah, they put us in the stampedees. Nobody knew what they were doing. And so, you know, he was always trying to scare me off the horses. To the point, by the time I got to set, I was fucking petrified to get on a

fucking horse and I'd already done a Western before. You'd already done Jesse James, right? Yeah. And I'd had a rough experience on that. And then I got better on the horses and it was great but you know I met this guy Cliff and Norm and there were all these great wranglers but he was

he said I'll never get a sleepy hollah in my contract only walking on a horse, no galloping none of that. It's in his contract. Oh my God, I love it. But is it? I have no idea.

Everything he says. I'm like, it's a mystery. I think it was. I'm sure. But, but, but then we were, we were on the set with, uh, mostly with Colin with Colin Farrell and seven psychopaths and we, the three of us would just laugh and we would show, Colin and I would show Chris just weird, disgusting things on the internet.

Like pictures of people's vaginas. Yeah, just horrible. Colin Farrell's sex tape. Just, I don't know about that. But we would show, we would show, we would show kinds of like, you know, just horrible things to, to Chris and he would laugh and, you know, he's like a big kid. He is. But he's this brilliant actor, and he's very generous on stage.

He's a real theater animal. That's the thing I think people don't know. Don't know that he's done the Rose Tattoo. He did Streetcar Nium Desire. At the same theater where I did it, he did Hamlet twice. He's done Romeo three times. He's done every checkoff play twice. Yeah.

I think when he was leaving the show he did, he was going to do Shakespeare in the park, like right after that. Yeah. I mean, he's the guys like, more than any of those guys, I think, of his generation, I think he's been on stage more than, you know, those guys. De Niro, Gene Hickman, John Boy, Dustin Hoffman. I think Chris has been on stage even more than those guys. He told a lot of stories about being in New York with, like, all the old guys like Pacino and De Niro and everybody. He came up with all those guys. Yeah, and they all did theater, but I think Chris did, he really did a lot. Yeah.

But the one story I could remember, because I can remember anything, but he was talking about somebody. There was one of it was a guy Hold on a second I might have lost some of this A snob A whiskey snob We're a grown ass man Since we started

Since we had that shitty coffee The Chinese restaurant Oh yeah And shitty beer like it was all about volume Oh my god all about volume So so one The story that That Chris told me was

He was like There was a guy on On the ping pong movie Of Balls of Fury Who had been in mean streets His name is not on my head right now But I think of it in a minute And so they all had a lot of mutual friends.

Obviously, they were talking about this guy they both knew from the theater who wasn't out when they were in their 20s. Yeah. And then came out and then had apparently gone somewhere to like pray away the gay. And they were like saying how sad that was that he'd gone to like un-gay himself. And then Chris goes, he's like, you can't. My, Chris is not your Chris. Okay. But you have to do Chris when you're Chris is much better than mine.

But he's like, you can't pray away gay. Nice. And then he goes, there is a pill you can take. He goes, I take it. But you can't forget a day. Because if you do, wow. It was the best story. You wake up hugging a toilet seat.

You don't know what happened to your ass. I mean, you just tell me his stories. It was so amazing. Yeah, he's amazing. And you couldn't wait for, you know, you couldn't wait to hear a cut because he just wanted Chris to, like, tell you some crazy story about when he was a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He was just, you know, yeah. He's awesome. Yeah. He's awesome. What do you consider to be your first, and I hate this question because it's super hacky, but I'm curious, what your first big movie, like, because I feel like I might have a box of moonlight, but maybe it wasn't for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, that was the first thing that kind of helped me. Jenna Maslin wrote an article in New York Times, because we interviewed there and said agents were chasing me down because of this movie, and then that sort of, that kind of even if that wasn't even true it was it got agents to chase you down and then you know then i did this movie uh jerry and tom and safe men and then i did lawn dogs and then things started kind of like building and and then it seemed like i didn't have to work in restaurants anymore i think starting did you keep working in restaurants through all these films i well i had to work in restaurants up even past box of moonlight in fact i was

great actress Maggie Rush was doing a soap opera called The City, I think. And I was so broke after Boxing Moonlight, I had to go to be an extra on a soap opera. And then... I think my last job was delivering burritos. And I know when it was,

because one time I went in... And I probably told the story. I went in, and these two girls said, come in! O.J.'s fleeing! And I said, here's your burrito. And they were like, come in. The Bronco is on the TV, you know. Oh, my God.

And I just love that they were like, get in here. Like, you have to see this. Yeah, get in here. Yeah, you have to see this. There's the white Bronco. And cut to, you know, years later. And now Cuba Gooding Jr. is playing O.J. Simpson. Oh, is he really? I haven't heard of seen that.

It's a great choice. Great choice. That's going to be amazing. That's going to be incredible. I think he's a great actor. But anyway. And that was the last. So that was the last job, real job job job.

but um yeah yeah yeah what was the last job job we remember doing my last job job yeah um I started doing Santa Ben San Francisco and I was I was I was an advertising executive I got like a very corporate day job that's awesome it was well of course you did because you're smart I don't I'm smart or just like you know like an apple polisher but I got this what was nice about the corporate day job was I could um I could obfuscate like I could hide if I wasn't working you know I mean, it was easier to hide you not working than it would have been like, you know, in a restaurant, you'd just clock it and clock out. But if I needed to drive to do stand-up, I could, like, come in at seven and leave at four. That's great.

I would do that. And I also could, like, make flyers from my shows, like, on the office copier. So it worked out great. That's really cool. I decided to move to L.A. and they transferred me to the L.A. office. And I worked here for about a year on – I'll never forget. I was working for Fox and Bandai. and I was working on the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Not the one I did. No, not the, no, no, no, because it wasn't, it was Power Rangers, Power Rangers. Oh, yeah. Not the one you was, like, their movie and their website. I was, like, doing, like, the digital development for their website. And that was the last thing that I did before. Wow. I left that company.

And then I spent a bunch of lean years kind of, you know, not working and watching a lot of, like, Nickelodeon during the day. Yeah, I remember seeing you do a stand-up in San Francisco, and you were fantastic. Oh, you're so cool. We went to go see you. I was so nervous that night, Sam. Oh, you remember that? I remember it because it was at Josie's, and I had, I used to be like a baseball player.

Like, I was very, like, superstitious about how a show could go, and it wouldn't go well if there weren't these components. Yeah, yeah. Because my mom had come to see me, like, a year before, and I froze, like, you know, like Cindy on the fucking quiz show. You know what I mean? So when you guys all came to see me and my show went, okay, I thought you were great.

Thank you. You had, thank you. You had broken a streak. Like, I wouldn't let anybody I knew come to see me. me for like almost two years. Wow. I was so anxious about it. And you guys came and...

Do you have to know when they're in the house? I don't like to know. Not now. Not now I'm fine. But for years it was really problematic if I knew people I knew were in the audience. Absolutely. Wow. Wow.

Yeah. I was filthy and personal. And there's something, I don't know. I mean, you're... Yeah. It's hard. It's still hard. Yeah.

There's something about thinking of the audience as a faceless kind of hive that enables you to kind of step out of yourself. But when you think, oh, you know, my high school friends or my... my mom or whatever, or the guy I drink with on the weekends are out there. I don't know, do you feel extra judged? Somehow you feel like they're judging you at a different set of criteria than strangers. Absolutely, sure, sure. No, no, I still get nervous, but I know somebody's out there.

Yeah, sure, yeah. Wow. No, it's hard. You don't want to know anybody's out there. No, you just want it. They just want them to be, this is so off-piece, but did you see Birdman? I love Birdman. I watched it twice and I cried both times.

So good. It was so incredible. So good. And there was something so interesting. There were so many moments that I loved, but the conversations with the critic were so interesting to me. Yeah. Really profound. Yeah.

And really specific about how. Both sides. Both sides. Yeah. We're really interesting. Yeah. I mean, her thinking she's the guardian of art, right? And him saying, like, nobody's the guardian of art, essentially.

But also this idea that, like, this is so much more personal than you think it is for us. Like, you think this is a job, the way that it's a job, the way that it's a job. job for you or the way that's a job for a guy who draws up contracts or makes burgers, but like, I die up there every single day, you know what I mean? And you can't ever understand what that feels like. Yeah. And stand-up is really a platform for exactly what you just said. I mean, you know, all the great stand-ups. I mean, it's a great art form, you know. Yeah, done well, even done poorly. I mean, I think it's very, you have a lot of the same experiences doing stand-up that you do doing theater, which is feeling incredibly exposed.

Yeah. And kind of the thrill and the terror of the idea that anything can happen, which is both delightful and really frightening, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you, what, do it? I never ask this question. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you love theater? I do love theater. Do you prefer it? And I, and I love stand-up, actually. I've never done stand-up, but I have great respect for it. I love theater. I'm going to do a play in the fall, but I love theater, but it's, you know, it's terrifying, and it's. It's raining.

Yeah, it's very, yeah, it's very, yeah. draining. You got to take care of your voice and you got to it's it's hard. It's hard. It's athletic. Yeah. It's emotionally athletic and physically. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. The right kind of play it should be. But yeah, it's intense. Yeah. I saw Robin Williams in Bengal Tiger at the Baghdad Zoo. And it was incredible. And it was towards the end of that run, and he was extraordinary, but I also remember thinking he is wrung out. Like he ran out of gas like three weeks ago. Not in a negative way.

I just could understand what that would be like. You know what I mean? Just his voice was gone. Yeah. He was physically exhausted. Yeah. And I think that people think of theater as something that people do as a holiday, but I think it's probably more difficult than any other.

No, it's really intense. Yeah. Chris Rock did motherfucker with a hat. my friend Yule, and I think he changed his life. From what I've heard, it just really, it really was something, I think a big deal for him. You really, but yeah, yeah, no, I, you know, that's a real, I got friendly with Bill Burr recently, and he's, you know that, you ever seen him do that, that thing where he gets heckled and he goes off on the audience? Oh, the one that he did in Jersey?

Oh, yeah, we're really good friends. It's genius. It's a genius piece of film. Incredible. Yeah, yeah. And just like, unrelenting.

Unrelenting bravery because it's like, every comedian, and maybe to an extent every actor on stage has been in a position where they're like, I just have to make it

through the next 20 minutes. You know what I mean? I've just got to make it through this. It's different when you're in play because you've got other people and there's that fourth wall is a little bit more opaque. Stand up,

you're talking to people and so they feel like they can talk back, which they rarely do in theater. But I just remember thinking, I remember being like, I've just got to make it through the next eight minutes so I can get paid,

you know? he turned that crowd around. He was afraid to go back. You know, he had to go back to that state, like, a few years later at the play club, and he was, like, afraid to go back. Yeah. I'm sure. Yeah. He was like, are they going to remember? Yeah, it took a great. He's a funny motherfucker that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's, yeah. You lived in L.A. for a while. When did you come to L.A.? Yeah. Yeah, I lived there, and I got in a car accident. I remember I was living with my friend Leif and pilot season and just, I was like 24, and I had gotten to this car and I mangled my fingers.

I remember it. I remember it. I wasn't here, but Todd told me about it. And it's such an interesting story. Can you tell the story? Because I think it's really interesting. Really? I wonder what you think.

Well, I got, I was just driving from a Mexican restaurant. I wasn't drunk or anything. I just was skidding. You know, when it rains and the oil gets loosened up? And L.A., because it doesn't rain very frequently, when it does rain, the streets get very slick. Very slick. So I hit the brakes on Sunset and LaBerey. I was taking a left and I got into a skid and I got out of the skid.

I was only going 20 miles an hour, 15 maybe, and I got out of the skid and I hit the curb and the car flipped into this Jeep, into this Burger King parking lot. It was a Jeep Cherokee. So I was upside down and I guess I had my fingers up on the, like this. Like out of the window? Yeah, I guess so. I was in a seatbelt. I was fine.

I was upside down. It was my friend Leif's car. Wasn't it a Suzuki Samurai? It was a Jeep. Cherokee. Okay, it was a Cherokee, which those cars tend to flip pretty easily. And it was kind of a high, yeah, high suspension car. That's right, that's right. And those cars have been known to flip. So I flipped it, I crushed my fingers. And back then, you know, the only people who had phones were drug dealers and the phones were like this big. These are the cell phones.

Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah, size of a shoebox. Yeah, there was these guys and they basically said, they were probably drug dealers and they said, hey man, keep your hands. hand up, you know, and my hand was, it was bleeding. And I said, hey, guys, can you help me flip the car back over? That's my car's, that's my friend's car. And they were like, dude, keep your hand up because it's bleeding, you know. And so I was in shock. You couldn't really feel it. You were just worried about the car. Yeah. And so then they, and I had like an expired driver's license. Somehow I got, I got through that. And they took me to the ER, the county. It was horrible. It was like a mash unit.

They put me up, you know, put Demerol in me, and the Demerol wore off, and then my hands were shaking. And then I realized I had insurance, and we went finally after 14 hours. But they weren't going to treat you, or they weren't going to treat you properly, right? No, they weren't. They were going to amputate these two. And then I didn't, I didn't, I said. The problem is I told him I didn't have insurance. You couldn't remember that.

Because I couldn't remember it because I hadn't paid my union dues, so I thought I didn't have insurance. But I did. So then we just, I went to two. different hospitals and finally my friend Sean has said come we're getting out of here we're going to Cedars and my manager at the time Andy Friedman

found a hand surgeon it was a Sunday night you know and so then this great hand surgeon fixed me up and it turned out I did have insurance and he fixed me up like that but like it was a real education and what happens to people who don't have health

insurance yeah yeah because they were like essentially like you you can't for hand surgery. Yeah. You're just going to chop these fingers off and later for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So, you know, I'm all in favor for Obamacare because it was a real education. I mean, it was gnarly. Yeah. The county hospital was like, it was rough. There was a guy screaming on the phone, like with a gunshot wound, his head, screaming in Spanish about, you know,

to his girlfriend. And there was this woman. It was crazy. Yeah. It was fucking crazy. Right. I think those people don't have a sense of what it's like to be poor.

Yeah. Like really poor. You know what I mean? Everyone says they were poor when they were coming up. Yeah. And I was poor, but my dad was in a union, so I had health insurance. Exactly. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And when I say poor, I mean, you know, I still had food in my mouth. So, you know, exactly. What is, what is poor? It's all relative. But you see it when you go to a place like that. You see it when you go to a place like that, you know? Yeah.

So there you go. But, yeah. Yeah. That was, I just remember that was like, Todd was like Sam was in this accident and they almost cut his, like, you know, and of course, by the time it gets to you, they almost cut his hand off.

Yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure. But yeah, yeah, I mean, it was like, so you're living here and did you come here just, you were acting, you were just coming after Pilates and we're kind of going back and forth? I came to visit my friend Leif. I slept on his couch for a while and then we, he was doing a play here waiting for Godot and then I just auditioning. I did this movie with male hustlers with Alexis

Arquette and. What was it called? It was called Rough Trade. It's a great name for a movie. Yeah, it was an A-Fi movie. I love it. And I, in fact, went down to Santa Monica Boulevard because Leif was living at the Highland Gardens Hotel, which is where Janice Joplin died.

Great place. And I would walk down to Santa Monica, and I'd talk to the tricks and the hustlers down there and do a little research, and they were awesome. And this is pre-my-private Idaho. Yes. And that was interesting, too. And then, yeah, so that's, yeah, and then I think I, I, I had some bad experiences,

and then I auditioned for ER and, you know, all kinds of stuff. And then bad experiences, like, you weren't happy with how auditions were going, or you just didn't love L.A. or? I was, I was broke, and I was in, L.A. is a tough place to be when you're a struggling actor. I think New York, back when I was in New York, making my bones, you know, It was a little easier. You could get by cheaper. And there was more culture and, you know.

But then coming back to L.A. when you have money in your pocket is different. And when you're a recognizable actor and everything is a totally, totally different experience. Yeah. You know, it's night and day. Yeah. It's like standing outside of like the Citadel. If you're here and you have no relationships, it's just an impenetrable. fortress. Like it's metaphorical, but you just feel like I don't know how to get on the other side.

How did you get into like the laugh factory or whatever they have, you know, how did you get in? How did you like break that wall? Part of it was just relentlessness, right? Just being relentless. But, you know, there were like with a laugh factory, it was like a system. Like you, you could either wait in line all day on a Tuesday to get three minutes. Yeah. Or if you had a television credit, you could get five minutes. And I had one really shitty television credit from when I was in San Francisco. I did an of this kind of terrible sketch show on Comedy Central called The People Next Door. And I literally was on camera for like 90 seconds. It was like not. But because I had that TV credit, I was able to get on stage there.

And I just, I don't know. I mean, I think I lucked out that I had kind of a unique act and I had a relative amount of competence because I was doing it for like four years before I came here. So I just, I wasn't an open mic or anymore. I just got up and I had a good set and just started to be. be a regular there. But, you know, I mean, it was going back over and over again. I used to, I would live in San Francisco, still in San Francisco, and I heard that you could get up at this club on Tuesdays or whatever it was. So I would work all day. Yeah. And then I would buy a roundtrip

plane ticket. I would go to SFO at like five. I would fly down. I would go to, I would rent a car. I would drive to do a set there. And then I would fly back at like the, on the red eye, which was like 10.30. And I did that like for months until I decided to move here. And then I had built up a little bit of a relationship there. But, but, you know, it's funny because sometimes people ask you, like, what did you do? Like, what's, or what's the, what do I do? Like, what's the thing to do? And it's hard to say that, like, my experience would be replicable for somebody else. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, sure. If I hadn't breaking in, if I hadn't broken in, that's not a word, if I hadn't broken in there, I think I would have just kept going around until I got up somewhere.

You know what I mean? And my only start. strategy was just, you know, I would do every open mic, every coffee house, every shitty, like, you know, laundromat show. I would just do everything. I would just go up everywhere, just with the hope and expectation that I would be better at what I was doing. Yeah. And I imagine, from a theater perspective, it's the same thing. Just do every play, every, everything that was available to you with the hope that somebody would eventually see what you were doing, you know? Yeah, yeah. I don't know, you, I'm sure you have a lot of really talented friends that haven't broken. Of course. You know, and sometimes it's just,

lock. Yeah. You know? Yeah, sure. And then maybe sometimes I have a lot of friends that are super talented and they just need to get out of the house one extra day a week. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

Yeah, sure. No, no. What are your inspiration? Who are your inspiration? This is your interview. No, no, no. I'm curious. I stand up, though, because I'm really, I love.

I don't know. All my inspirations are like the same. They're mostly guys, unfortunately. I mean, there are women for sure. But, I mean, Whoopi Goldberg, I think... Because she was so innovative and such a radical when she was young. You know, I remember that HBO special.

And then, you know, like her first four hit movies, except for Ghost, were all roles written for a man. You know what I mean? And a white guy, and she came in and kind of turned them into something different. Yeah, wow. But, you know, Prior and Murphy, and I don't know, I remember,

I don't know if you remember, like, when Delirious came out. Oh, yeah. It was, like, life-changing. Yeah, yeah. Trading places. Yeah. And my dad, too. took me to see live on the sunset strip, which was like super inappropriate for a little

game. That was, uh, is that where he does the animals in Africa or is that the one where he talks about being on fire? That's one we talked about being on fire. Yeah, that's a great one. Such a good one. Such, I mean, that was so personal. Yeah.

And then the thing. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, he was one of my, one of my, one of my. He's, he's incredible. Yeah. He's, he's one of my influences. You know, Bill, Bill, Bill's probably one of the funniest guys working, Bill Burr,

probably one of the finest guys working comedy right now. He's so prolific. He just turns over a new hour, like, He's like, Louis, like a new hour every year. Yeah. Yeah, he's amazing. I've been really getting hip to his stand-up. Yeah.

How did you guys meet? We met doing this animated cartoon thing, Justin Long, that he wrote. So we were doing that a little bit, and then I started sort of watching his stuff. He's a funny motherfucker. He really is a fucking motherfucker. Fuck him. Yeah, he is a funny motherfucker. Yeah.

You, I, it's, I, you're one of those people, like every once in a while I have somebody on the show, and they've done so many films that I'll never be able to name them all. You were at the premiere of Confessions. Which was, yeah, I was. We had a, remember that dance party? It's a great night. That was a very impromptu, crazy dance party with Jamie Fox. Yes, Jamie Fox and Ethan Hawk and like a bunch of really interesting people there.

Yeah. Yeah, that was the only, I can't remember many dance parties at a premiere party. No, premier party is usually like you're just kind of making the rounds until you can get the fuck out and go drink with your friends at a real bar. That was like, we were grinding and that was crazy. It was a good night. People don't know. Well, maybe people do know this about you, but Sam was an extraordinary dancer. Well, thank you.

Were you that good of a dancer when I knew you in high school? Were you that good of a dancer in high school? No, I learned in middle school there was a girl named McAleb who took me on the dance floor, and I said, I don't know how to dance. You know, please don't. She's like, no, no, there's only one way to find out. Come on, let's go. And it was during the thriller, Michael Jackson, Herbie Hancock kind of phase and music.

And I became friends with a guy named Leroy. He called himself Leroy, but Leroy Price. You're trying to fancy it up a little bit. Yeah, he was Leroy and Charles Britain. In fact, I'd love to know where Charles and Leroy are. But Leroy and Charles, Leroy went to Washington to play football, and I went to McIterre to be an actor. and then Charles went somewhere else,

so we got sort of separated after middle school. But basically, as you know, in the sunset, I was sort of hanging out with, like, the nerdy Atari kids, and then I realized that they weren't meeting girls. But I had some really good friends there, and they were really funny and great and entertaining. And then I started getting beat up a lot. And by the white kids, there was this kind of,

as you remember WPOD? Yes. So there was this very scary kind of Nazi Germany kind of Irish Germany. It's kind of Anglo-Nazi. Yeah, kind of Anglo-contingent in the sunset area. When they used to call themselves sunset. Yeah, they just would yell out sunset. That was like how they wrapped the sunset.

But, yeah. WPOD stands for white punks on dope. Yeah, so I didn't, exactly. And so I didn't get along with those guys. So then I met Leroy in choir class, and we realized that we both like marijuana. Because we were both giggling in choir class. And we were like, oh, you like to smoke pot? And I like the smoke pot.

We should hang out. So we started hanging out. And, you know, I mean, fuck, man. We were like 13. Yeah. You know, we were young. We started early in San Francisco. We did.

We started early. That's how it was. Yeah. And Leroy was kind of like, he was kind of like, you know, like, you know, like, Will Smith or something. He was like he could run track. He played football. The girls liked him.

He could fight. He was like, he was everything. He was very popular. And his buddy Charles was awesome. And then so I started hanging out with Leroy and Charles. And then I got into this phase where I was like, you know, trying to be black or trying to dance. And that was the point I think where I tried to, and I've never really talked about this.

But I think that's where I kind of got into dancing because it was a different crowd. had to you had to move a little bit you know yeah so and then i think that's and so when i entered macketeer i became a little like todd in the fact in the way that we were todd and i were very shy and we were putting on this kind of like yeah you know and it was like it was kind of a facade and then i read a great this is a great story actually this is a great acting story okay great so i get into acting class and dan harper's there and dan Dan Harper's like a rocker. Yeah.

He's got a little bit of long hair. Yeah, you know. He's like, and we become friends. And he's really articulate and he's talking and he's, and there's all these very like articulate people and it's, it's, it's everything. It's interracial. It's everything. And it's, and I have, you know, acting genes in my blood, but I've repressed them all and

I'm just trying to be cool. And I'm like 15. And I'm like, so. And they say, oh, we're going to do a scene from the Three Witches, William Shakespeare, and they made me one of the Three Witches.

Now, I don't know if anybody's familiar with Toil Toil, Boil and Trouble and Three Witches and the Scottish play, but in Macbeth, but if you play one of the Three Witches, you cannot be cool. You know, it's like being the genie in Aladdin

or something, for instance. speaking of Ron Williams, and saying, okay, now, we're going to cast Mickey Roark as the genie in Aladdin, you know what I mean? And he's like taciturn, he's not talking. Yeah, exactly. You know, that's not going to work. You know what I mean?

This is like the soul of that character. Yeah, you know what I mean? And that was a big lesson. And I was basically, I tanked. And I realized, oh, yeah, in order to be an actor, you have to make a fool out of yourself. You have to be silly. And you can't be, this being cool does not help you as an actor.

Yeah. And so that was a big lesson. And that's when I kind of had to let that whole facade kind of go. It was kind of like a mixture of like Prince and Kevin Bacon and Footloose. It was this kind of thing. That's right around the time I met you. Yeah, that's what was. You know, and that was kind of.

And then I had to shake that. And then the breakfast club came. And then we were all dressing like that. Yeah, you had a trench coat. You were rocking a trench coat very hard. Yeah. Look, you know, all that shit. But, you know, it's funny.

I worked with Kevin Bacon. Did you? So did I. You did? Yes. Six degrees. Oh my God, there's just the one. Well, you and I are zero degrees.

I worked with him in the movie called Death Sentence. Nice. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah. That's right. That was like a vengeance movie. He's a lovely guy. You know, it was the same writer who wrote Death Sentence wrote, wrote, oh, Death Wish.

So it was the same writer. And it was kind of 70s, hard-boiled, like, you know, revenge fiction. And he was lovely. He was a great guy. He's a great guy. He did Frost Nixon, but I realized in watching him walk that I had been imitating his walk from Footloose.

Yeah. Yeah. In McIntyre. In middle school. Yes. I was probably putting a bunch of walks together, and that was one of them. Yeah. You know. Did you watch a lot of movies when you were like what?

Yeah, sure. Yeah, were you like obsessed with film? Of course. Yeah. I mean, you probably were too, right? Yeah, I, you know, it's funny because I loved movies so much, but we consumed movies differently then, like when I think about it. You got to rewatch them.

Yeah. Yeah, like I remember that I saw, so embarrassing, I saw war games like 15 times in the theater. Crazy. And I, you know, I remember, and I just met Matthew Broderick and I was like, I'm sorry, I have to tell you this, but I just saw that movie so many times. Like, as a kid in the theater, like, in the movie theater, not like on my computer. You know what I mean? I would go back over and over again. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because it was like a movie about a kid kind of transcending, you know what I mean? And he was super independent. He was, like, doing his own thing. And I was like super into, like, computers and games and stuff. But I did love movies back then, but my sense of what that meant was so different than now. Because I would just hang, I would just go to the movies. I would buy like a matinee ticket at 11. And then I would just like hide in the theater and watch like every movie all day.

I would like sneak from theater to theater. Yeah. Which is different than. Yeah. Now where you can just buy shit and watch it like on the plane. Yeah. Yeah. I know people.

I told it. I mean, did you see Mad Matt, the new Mad Mac? Oh, God. It's so good. So fucking good. Oh my God. And look, I love Tom Hardy. I think he's incredible.

That's Charlie's his movie by far. Like she's. It's so incredible in it. She's amazing. It's just, it's, it's like, it's like road wear on steroids. I mean, it's like a punk rock concert. Right. It's like a punk rock concert.

It was amazing. Don't know where to look. There's so many things happening in it. Blew me away. And did you hear the thing? But it made me feel like a little kid again. Yes. Like transported.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. Did you see the interview where Tom Hardy said that he, where he apologized to George Miller? I heard about that. Yeah. And said, I didn't understand what you were. I didn't get the scope of what you were doing.

I didn't see it. And then when I saw the movie, I was like, I'm an idiot that I couldn't grasp how sprawling and, like, ambitious this movie was. I was just worried about my own feelings.

Yeah. I thought that was pretty impressive. That's really cool. And he's a good kid. I met him, and he's a great actor. And, you know, it's good. That's nice that he could recognize that.

I mean, he's, you know, that movie blew me away. I was just like, and, you know, that's the thing. When I was doing press with Rosemary for Poulter. guys we were talking, she was kept saying, you know, movies are a community, they can be a

community experience, especially a horror movie or, or Mad Max. And it's such, seeing it at the, you know, the dome. Right. It's such an emotional experience. Yeah. And you do feel like it's collective, you know, even if, you know, you're all in your own little space, but you still, you know, everybody's audibly gasping or reacting at the same time. It's great. It's great. It's so good. Do you, do you have you ever been on a film like that where you thought I don't look I mean I think films are a very emotional experience you know yeah where you like didn't feel like you you could see what was happening around you well for better or for worse you know I think um well I think you always kind of you usually go in with the intention of doing you know hamlet or citizen

cane like you kind of I think you try and you know maybe certain films aren't going to be that but you're like, you try to make yourself think, oh, well, I'm going to do this character. I mean, I certainly,

you know, as you mentioned, delirious and stuff, like I always kind of like, we talked about live at the Sunset's trip, like I always think, well, I'm going to do this because I know,

you know, like in Cowboys and Aliens, I kept watching deliverance or, I even watched like, the deer hunter, you know. I love that. So you're watching and watching all the great westerns or sci-fi movies. So I'm constantly trying to remind myself that there's people before us that did this

better than it's probably ever going to be done. Yeah. You know, and it's like, you know, so, you know, even it doesn't really matter. Like, I did this movie called The Winning Season and I played, it was one of Rooney's first film. Rooney Mara? Yeah, Rune Mara's first film. She's extraordinary. She's great.

She's awesome. That's a girl with the dragon tattoo. Yeah, she's badass. She ever showed up here and took her pants off, I'd bone her in a side. I wouldn't even think about it. Yeah, man. Get down. Yeah, get in line.

Get in line. She's awesome. Yeah, she's awesome. We had a good time, but, you know, like, I kept watching bad news bears and bustin loose and meatballs and caddy shag. And, you know, like, so you're always watching, and I was watching the same films when I did the way, way back. I was watching Bust and Loose Meatballs.

Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for saying. Thank you. But, I mean, essentially, we're doing the same relationship in Meatballs, or Bust and Loose or Bad News Bears. It's the same thing. It's the misanthrope guy who's kind of grouchy with the little kids, you know? Right.

And so if you're thinking, oh, I'm going to reinvent this wheel here, you're delusional. Because you're not, if you're not thinking about Richard Pryor, Walter, Matthew, and Bill Murray, or if you're not paying respect to your history, you know, you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I think it's, that's, that's, I think it's always paying respect to that, you know.

What films were you thinking about, because one of the movies that I loved and I know you got a lot of attention for was, well, Confessions was one, which, but Moon. Oh, yeah, yeah. Which I think had to have been a really hard film to make. Because it was just you for the whole picture. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for saying that. I mean, Midnight Cowboy was one and Dead Ringers with Jeremy Arns. Oh, wow, yeah.

He plays twins. Yeah. And that's the best time. I've ever seen that trick done. Yeah. So me and the director watched Dead Ringers and we listened to the DVD extras. And that helped a lot. Jeremy Arns' performance in that.

Because it was very subtle what he did. And then Midnight Cowboy, oddly. helped a lot because of the two, the juxtaposition between these two types. It's a, you know, because Moon is a buddy movie, really. It really is. You take away the sci-fi and all that shit. It's a buddy movie, and so it's Midnight Cowboy or, you know,

the similarity between Midnight Cowboy and Moon is that it was a, they're both buddy films, but the relationship is contentious. Yes, it's not, it's not like it's an upbeat dynamic between the two characters. That's right. That's right. And my acting coach actually told me to watch Midnight Cowboy. And so, yeah. So, you know, those are, I think that stuff's important.

You know, watching that, watching, you know, it's like when fighters watch old fights or, you know, it's the same thing I imagine with stand-up. You know, it's the same thing. Yeah, yeah. You're watching those performances and you're stealing. Well, yeah, well, I think the idea is to understand the mechanics behind these choices and maybe see what worked beautifully. and then to decide what you would do differently. Yeah. And to understand, like you said,

what's come before and to know that you're not reinventing anything. You know, you're just trying to put your own kind of personal spin on it, really. Yeah, absolutely. Before we, we have time. I have three or four more questions about your life. And I think the first one is you've had this really interesting and I think pretty elegant balance between doing big commercial movies

and doing these little kind of personal movies. kind of personal movies and I wonder if that's just been kind of serendipitous or whether that's been calculated. You know, I mean something like Charlie's Angels, you know, where you kind of play a villain and then you know, something like moons, whether you're small and you kind of or how it's an alien's big expensive film, you kind of have this nice

you know, back and forth. Thanks for saying that. I think it's I think it's all just kind of, you know, they say you want to make God laugh, tell them your plans, you know? I think that there's no I mean, you can have your private agenda as far as the kinds of parts you want to play,

but then you're going to break those rules inevitably because there's going to, something will come along, and you'll be like, oh, well, it's Ron Howard, or it's, oh, well, it's, you know, I didn't want to play, I didn't want to do that, but there's, the writing is so good, and the actors, it's Chris Walken or whatever it is, you know, and it's like, so you, you always break your own rules, you know. So you may have an agenda, you know, and be like,

all right, I only want to do Mad Max. Where's the Mad Max part? Right, right. But inevitably something great comes along that's not Mad Max and you kind of go for it, you know. So, yeah, I think that's... It's very random. It's very personal how you pick material and, you know...

You don't really have like a strategy. It's just what you respond to. Yeah, I think it's... The only power you have as an actor is to say no. That's the only power you have is the word no. So well put. I've said that before. It's like people think they're like,

how'd you choose that part? I'm like, well, it was offered to me or I auditioned for it. I don't sit around kind of cherry picking the best parts in Hollywood. But you might have said no to four others to make it open for you to get that part.

Right. And that's how you, in a lot of ways, define yourself as by what you won't do. Yeah. Which, like you said, it's the only power that you have. It's all you got. Producing's where it's at.

Right. Oh, seriously. create just make your own shit yeah yeah you're going you say you're going back to do a play right after this you have like a nice big commercial movie out right now yeah yeah you got polter guys down check it out 3d yes polter guys in 3d i saw mad max in 3d um oh you did yeah and and 3d i and i might have traumatized me 3d it was i i i am frail like i feel like i i wiggle in my seat and i'm yeah me too dodging and yeah it's very it's not for me i guess my Me too.

Me too, man. I was, like, freaked out. It's too much. It's too much, man. So, going back to, do you live in L.A.? Do you live in New York now? I live in both. My girlfriend and I live in the Valley.

When I met her, she had a house in the valley, and I have a place in New York, so we go back in the court. That's nice, actually. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, we sat out the winter here, so. We did the winter in Toronto. Oh, you're doing a movie or she was doing serious? Oh, yeah.

No. I did a winter in Toronto. It's ugly. Yeah. So I took the winner off this year. You find yourself, I remember calling home to my husband, and I was like, he's like, how is it? I'm like, it's not that bad today. It's only minus six.

He's like, what, who are you? And where the fuck is my wife? Who gets cold when it's 55 degrees outside? But I was like, you know, you just, on some level you lack me, but you, you know, you don't want to live that way. You know, I, yeah, I bore it. Awful. I just, I just bore it. Yeah.

I did like Toronto, though. I thought the bars there were good. Great. Did you do a Bellwood's brewery or the one? That's new. Yeah. There was some other ones. I did a, do you know Stu Townsend?

Country General. No, I don't. Oh, yeah, he's a good actor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We did a series together, and we lived, like, kind of downtown, like Queen West. Yeah, that's where it's out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was this bar, it's closed.

Sweetie Betty's. It was heartbreaking, and it was called Good Night. And it was no sign down an alley. You had to call and leave a voicemail to get in. And then it was, like, drinking in someone's living room, and it was like the bad. And we would just go there every night after rap and just, like, it was, It was so great. I had fond memories of Toronto.

Yeah, I like Toronto. Every acting job, even the difficult ones, feel like a crucible. You know what I mean? Yeah, sure. You feel like you always transform on some level, no matter what it is. Yeah. No, it's true. True, you get to know the town.

It's great. Yeah. No, I like Toronto. Just not in the cold. Not in the winter. Yeah. And then you'll go back to New York and do a play. Go back to New York and do a play in August and September.

And then that's it. That's it. Just hanging out. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, we're going to have self-inflicted wounds now, I think. Okay. I think I already did that because I talked about the car accident.

That's a good one. Do you want to make that your self-inflicted wound story? It can be. I think that's as good as it gets. It's a pretty good one. Yeah. I don't think it's going to get better than that. No, it's not going to be.

Sam is showing me his actual hand. He's holding his hand up and he said it's not going to get better than that. I mean, what's nice about this is like, this is like who you are now, right? Like this part of your life. I mean, it's, it's, um, they kind of like, like wonderful and beautiful and kind of integral to who you are as a person that this thing happened to you. You flipped a car onto your hand. That's fucking hardcore. It's, it was kind of intense.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have a set of friends that are, um, both loving and terrible. Uh, you know, this is like human manifestations of the devil. And we have another friend, Eric Watson. Were you around when Eric got stabbed?

Oh, jeez. Jesus, God, no, I was around when he climbed the scaffolding, the awning of the courtyard. Oh, really? It was in high school. Yeah, as a prank. When did he get stabbed? He got stabbed on the muni. I shouldn't, whatever.

So he got stabbed by a homeless, but like a per, like a schizophrenic. He got stabbed on the train in San Francisco. So what happened? He went to the hospital? Yeah, I mean, I think he got kind of his chest or like in his abdomen. Fuck me. By like a crazy guy, just by a crazy guy who's standing. stabbed him and no reason just he was there and this is who our friends are Todd and

crew called him whole for a year. Was that Joe Mosian? Yeah, exactly. He probably came over that name. I'm sure that was Joe Mosian. It had to have been Jemosian. That's amazing. That's amazing.

I mean, it's so cruel. Kids are so cruel. But that group of people, what was the way we showed affection was by being kind of like terribly going to each other? We would cap on each other pretty hard. Yeah. It was an interesting crew because McIntyre had this bad reputation. But then we had this school of the arts.

So we had, we had, like, rich kids coming in from Marin County to go to the school of the arts. And then we had. It's kind of like really quiet Asian kids, you know, like very soft-spoken and mellow. Yeah. Yeah. And in choir class or whatever, playing instruments. Then we had the hippie kids from the Hayd Ashbury. We had HP Fillmore, the Mission, China.

of towns. It was like this very eclectic group. And when you try to talk to talk to people about it, it's, you know, people who didn't go to schools like that. It's, they don't quite, I don't think they quite, no, I don't think they can't grasp it. Yeah, it was it was hard to define that school. It didn't, it didn't have an identity because it had so many identities, but, I mean, the best way to describe it,

honestly, and it's so sad, if you were trying to communicate it, somebody wasn't there, it was like very kind of like fame or glee-like. I mean, they were like, you know, it was. Yeah, but then there, but only, remember, there were only, 500 people out of 2000. Exactly. And the rest of the kid was rowdy and stabby and fighting. I mean, it was pretty, it was kind of, it wasn't just fame.

If it was just fame, nobody would have got stabbed, you know what I mean? Right, exactly. And that's what I thought was sort of crazy about it, you know. The football players were, you know, worshipped as they usually are, you know. Yeah, it had all of those traditional elements. Yeah. Remember the apple heads, which were essentially the preppy kids. Yeah, yeah.

All right. I guess there's this question I have for you before we go, and it has something to do with the fact that the thing I was saying earlier about kind of from like a far, you always seem like you kind of had this sense of yourself. Whenever I see you working, I always feel like you make these incredibly confident choices. Whenever I see you as an actor,

I just think, God, like, Sam really knows what he's doing here. And that's not like a kind of, he seems like, I'm like, God, he's just making these really specific, really personal choices. And whenever I see you do something, I feel like no one could do what you do in a film. Well, thank you. Thanks.

That's funny because when I first met you, you had a confidence and a vulnerability about you when I first met you that was kind of startling. Isn't that funny? Because I thought of myself as a total idiot back then. Yeah, but you were really dynamic. You had a dynamic quality. You know, you entered a room.

You know what I mean? That just might have been my height. No, no, it wasn't your height. No, it wasn't your height. No, no. But I guess I wonder as an actor, if your sense of your work right now, and this is a weird question,

if the sense of yourself that you have as an artist now, you feel like I get it. Like, I really have, like, real, like, artistic clarity at this point in my life. I know that's very esoteric question. You know, Yes and no, you know, I kind of know the kind of stuff I want to do, but, you know, it's all, it's, again, it's pretty random. But, but do you mean just kind of knowing the kind of stuff you want to do or the kind of the...

Or do, just like the way that you stepped onto a set, let's say, like 10 years ago and the way you walk onto a set now? Oh, no, sure. It's different. Yeah, no, you walk up, you know, hopefully if you're prepared and you know what you're doing, I mean, you, you, you, you come to do work, you know. And, you know, John Tissauro said to me once, you know, you're not here to make friends, you know, you're here to do a job. You have a job to do.

So you can joke around with the crew sometimes, whatever. But ultimately you have, you know, you got a job to do, so you got to show up and it's time to work. And so hopefully you can keep it light and be pleasant and not be, a dick and still do good work, you know. But it's definitely a balance of like coming in there and being serious and then also being, you know, light enough to kind of say hello and, you know, be cordial and stuff. Yeah. Are you one of the, on your on set, are you kind of like a linear guy? Yeah. Are you a head down straight to your... I mean, it depends on the scene for me. I think for For me, it depends on the scene.

I mean, some days I'm really friendly, and some days I need to keep a space from people depending on the scene. And there's ways of doing that, you know, that takes years to learn where you can be kind of zen and just, you know, people start talking to you. Because they don't know, you know, that you're preparing. And so you've got to kind of just say, can I talk to you in a minute or, you know, whatever,

whatever you've got to do. And that takes years to learn without being insecure and being like, Gappuccino! Where's my makeup? You know, or whatever it is that actors sometimes will throw tantrums. And if you do therapy and you do and you work on yourself and you, you know, I think you start to understand when you're getting a, you know, fight or flight feeling.

Yeah. That that's just you're getting maybe some adrenaline for the scene and to breathe through it and just be like, it's okay and kind of talk yourself down. and be like, all right, I know what I'm doing. I'm here to do a job. And I think that that takes years to learn, you know, and little tricks here and there, you know. I mean, as you know, doing one of the most terrifying art forms on the planet,

stand-up comedy. I don't think I figured it out until a few years ago, really. Yeah, right? I mean, it's, I mean, Jesus Christ, you know. To come in, you know, you always come in Loaded Ferber. You always come in wanting to do good work. But I think it took me a long time to not be panicked, to not, and to not let my panic.

affect me or affect people around me, like, to just come in and be like, I know enough about who I am as a performer. Yeah. That I know how to prepare in a way that's interior and will work for me and won't be awful for other people around me. And yeah, and that does. It takes a long time. Sometimes it helps to engage with people and sometimes it doesn't.

Oh, yeah. And you've got to know when to go in the bathroom and, like, you know, get the towel and like, and then sometimes it helps to get outside of yourself and talk to people. Right. Sometimes it doesn't. Right. Yeah. I just did a show where I was like, hey, guys, I'm sorry.

I can't talk to, I just, I can't talk to anybody, and I'm so sorry. Yeah. Like, I'm not being rude, but if I don't do this right now, there won't be a show. Exactly. Yeah. And that's okay. You know, that takes a long time to learn. You know, so there you go.

Yeah. So I won't be able to articulate properly how proud and happy I am. I love you, Viv. Both to be sitting with you and for everything that you've done, I'm just, I love you so much. I love you, baby. Thank you for having me. That was Sam Rockwell. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.

Sam was a pretty interior guy, pretty private. And so it was very fun to get him to sit down and do this with me because he's not always the most, like, bubbly effusive guy. And I don't mean that in a negative way. He's just very interior. There's no epilogia for this episode, because I thought it went wonderfully. But if there was one, I would apologize for not remembering who the actor was that was in Balls of Fury with me. me and Chris Walken, who was also in Mean Streets, that actor's name is David Preval.

And he is an interesting actor, and that was a really fun movie to make if you want to go back and get that. I'm sure it's on Netflix or some other free service. Because a movie like Bowles of Fury should be available to everybody to watch for free. I mean, that's just my personal opinion. This is a democracy. Check that out. Are there any other things to say about this show? I don't know.

I hope you loved it. I loved it. You know, you can follow me and friend me online at Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Tumblr, at the handle Aisha Tyler and Girl on Guy, and obviously also courage and stone. Follow me at all these places for photographic porn of a variety of types, not the actual fun kind of porn where people are naked, but, you know, celebrity porn and drink porn and podcast porn. And come say hi, come write me later at girlong guy.com. Come click on the envelope. Come check out the store, get your girl on guy gear. We have limited edition t-shirts and posters that will sell out. And so get them

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