Girl on Guy with Aisha Tyler - girl on guy 195: ll cool j

Episode Date: July 29, 2015

girl on guy 195 is with ll cool j.  that is all. girl on guy is jinglin' baby.  

Today's episode of Girl and Guy is brought to you in part by Squarespace. Squarespace is the easiest way to create a beautiful website, blog, or online store for you and your fantastic ideas. Squarespace features an elegant interface, beautiful templates, and incredible 24-7 customer support. Try Squarespace at Squarespace.com and enter offer code Aisha at checkout to get 10% off. Squarespace, build it beautiful. This is Girl on Guy. Hey, everybody, welcome to Girl on Guy 10095. Welcome to the show. This is the culminating episode of season four of Grow on Guy. After this, I will be going on hiatus.

Typically, you know this. What I do is I take the month of August off. My daytime show goes on hiatus. I put Girl and Guy on hiatus and I go be human. I've gone and I've written a book or I've done some traveling and eat ice cream and ridden bicycles and made bubbles and I don't know, pee in the shower, whatever people do in their leisure time. However, this year I was planning to take a big trip to Europe to get some human, try to get, try to get some human experiences going. And I booked a very exciting arc on the television show Criminal Mind. So I will be working through my hiatus, but not on this show. I'm going to focus on doing one thing at a time for once in my life. We'll be making criminal minds and actually also Archer.

But no Girl and Guy. Girl and Guy will return in September. So this is your opportunity to do some other things with your free time. You can always go back and listen to episodes of Girl and Guy you haven't heard yet. I know you haven't heard all 195 of them. Plus the 37 additional premium episodes that you can get if you become a premium subscriber, which is very easy to do by just going to Girl on Guy.net and clicking on Upgrade to Premium Access on the right side of the page. 37 episodes should more than carry you through

the month of August. But while you're not listening to Girl on Guy, which you should be doing on an ongoing basis, go do other fun things with your life. I don't know, learn a new skill. Go swimming. Swing off a rope swing. Eat popsicles. I don't know. Dude, throw water balloons at your neighbors. Don't do that. I think that might be illegal. But go have a good time. It's the summer, and there's only a bit left of it. There's just a few morsels left. Feel free to exploit it as fully as you possibly can. Life is short.

Go do shit. This episode of Girl on Guy is brought to you in part by Squarespace. SquareSpace has been an ongoing sponsor of a Girl on Guy, so I want to thank them for continuing to buy space on this show and support Girl on Guy in the way that they have been doing for such a long time, which is great. I've said this many, many times before. Building website is very difficult. I've actually done it myself, not with a team, not with my people, by my little old lonesome. And it was excruciating, time-consuming, and in the end, painful as I temporarily, but quite painfully sprained my eyeballs.

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And when you decide to sign up for Squarespace, use the offer code Aisha, that's my name, AISHA, to get 10% off your first purchase and show your support for Girl OnGus. I want to once more, thanks Squarespace for their ongoing, avid, assiduous, and continual support of the Girl on Guy podcast. They've been a sponsor for a long time now. And they're awesome. Go avail yourself of this offer. It is cheap, easy.

And if you were wanting to build a website, now is the time to do it. You've got the month of August to make your dreams come true. Visit Squarespace.com. Use the offer code Aisha. That's AISHA to get 10% off your first purchase and show your support for Girl on Guy. Let Squarespace know that advertising on Girl on Guy is meaningful for them as it is for us. Squarespace, build it beautiful. All right, this episode of Growing On Guy is with LL Cool J.

Now, I could just, I could do the thing where I run down his credits and all the stuff he's done. But if you don't know who LL Cool J is, you live under a rock and I cannot help you with your problems. He is a hip-hop icon. He has been a fixture not just on the hip-hop, but on the artistic scene, on the acting scene, on the overall creative scene, since I was a teenager. And you'll hear here that I remember his very first music when it came out. We're around the same age. And so he's done something that very few other musical artists and especially rappers have been able to do, which is to stay explosively busy and relevant over a very, very long period of time. Even hip hop, even more than pop music, I think, just tends to churn people through. But he stays creatively. relevant and is constantly expanding his empire and it's exciting to watch. I've been trying to get this interview for a very long time and I got it and I'm pleased that I'm bringing it to you right now. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the season four finale episode of Girl on Guy, Girl on Guy episode

195 with James Todd Smith, better known as LL Cool J and it is coming to you straight out of the Girl on Guy Bunker and right into your face. Check 1-2, Tester. Yes. If you didn't recognize that voice. L.L. Cool, J. Welcome to my show. Thank you. Thank you, Aish.

You know what's so funny is I, you are such a cultural icon, and I remember specifically, I will talk about this. Like, we're around the same age, so we were both teenagers when your first album came out. I think when you know someone and they're an artist and they seem larger than life, they seem older than you. They seem bigger than you. Or like ageless. I don't know. Right, right. You just weren't.

Older. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know to me. But Litch, I was like, he has a record deal and I'm riding the bus. Right, I know to me. But we are around the same age, and so what I was thinking about when I was just right before you came in, was like, I've literally grown up on your music. Yeah.

You know, which is insane because we are the same age, essentially. I know what to me. That's so weird. I just reflected on that. I think when you spoke, your voice is so iconic. It's like, yeah. Yeah. I know to cut you off.

No, I think, you know, it's, you know, I was talking with somebody early and I said, you know, I've been entertainment, you know, the majority of my life. Like, you know, I turn a professional. I started recording when I was 16. So the majority of my years on earth have been doing this. Yeah. It's an interesting life calling, you know. Do you ever, now that you're doing as long as you have in your life, and we'll go back and start at the beginning of a minute, but do you ever look at it and. And because there's a point at way to get, it doesn't get effortless, but it gets, it becomes much more natural, much more native to who you are, that you're navigating all these different levels, music and TV and everything. But I wonder if you ever look at it and think either Marvel at the fact that it's gotten easier or, do you ever feel ambivalent about it?

No. Well, the first thing I would say is that, you know, the mechanics may get easier, but the decision-making never gets easier. You know, it's like playing professional sports, right? Like, you may be, you know, the mechanics of bouncing the ball are, you know, come pretty naturally for, you know, LeBron right now. But, you know, in the moment, the decisions are still, you know, extremely important. And the choices you make are always challenging and important, et cetera. So, yeah, I think, what's that? The air is.

Break, y'all. Oh, you're going to start again? There we go. It's good. Yeah. All right. Yeah, the mechanics make it easier, but the decision making never gets easier. And if it ever felt like, if you ever start feeling like your decisions are that easy in your career,

you're probably taking it for granted. Yeah. And you're probably on your way out. Yeah. And don't realize it. Yeah. I mean, right? It's coming.

You're just in that warm water, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's interesting because, and we'll talk, again, we'll talk about it a little bit more when we do the chronology, but you have constantly reinvented yourself. And one thing that can be for someone is it can either be invigorating or it can be terrifying, especially if you've been very effective in one area. Right, right.

So I wonder, was. In those choices that you've had to make, you know, as an actor, as an artist, to constantly stay relevant, are the, you were saying the decisions are hard. Do you ever bulk at them? Do they ever seem like, okay, I don't know, this isn't the direction I want to go or I want to go in this direction, but it seems like it might be too challenging. Although I don't strike me as someone who's ever sees things as too challenging. No, you know, I think you embrace the challenges. The challenge is always to, you know, subject your ego and your emotions from the equation. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. And also your fear. Right. And allow your creativity to flow.

Right. And, you know, I was reading somewhere, you know, it was the, I think it was the Mellon family. He had a very interesting mantra, which was intuition is the most important tool in the toolbox. And, you know, I totally agree with that. You know what I'm saying? Like allowing yourself to go with your intuitive leads, no matter where they lead you. Right.

Do you ever find that your intuition leads you? It doesn't steer you wrong. No. You know, I mean, you could call it the Holy Spirit. You can call it that inner light. You know, that's what it is. Like, that's what you follow. Have you ever resisted, though?

Have you ever held in your intuition leading you in a place we should? Of course. I've rationalized. I've intellectualized and rationalized my way into disaster. Right, right? All the time. I really know, but what I think. I'm just thinking because you want.

something so bad that you're thinking and you're thinking, but if you're in, you got to follow your intuition, you know, if your intuition tells you don't go to the barbecue, right, and then you get there and there's a shootout and you're laying up there in the hospital with the dumb, dumb slug and your calf muscle, it's like, I knew I should, most of the time, people, when they don't, you know, they know when they shouldn't do something. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have a methodology?

You know, some people are all intuition, right? they just kind of go with feelings. But I don't, again, as an observer, I can't imagine that you've arrived where you are now without a plan. Yeah, well, what I would say is that intuition are feelings but aren't feelings because feelings can be misleading.

You know, feelings can get tired in the ego. Your past can be holding your future hostage. You know, he stepped on my foot last week, so I'm not calling back. Right, right. You blow your whole life. You know what I mean? Yeah.

You know, one spark instead of prairie on fire, right? Right. So, but in terms of like, so what was the other part of your question? Oh, it was, you seem to me to be someone, and again, a plan. A plan or that you, you know, I mean, not rigidly, but you know, yeah, yeah. I mean, you got to have a game plan in life. You got to have a game plan. I mean, you know, fail to plan, plan to fail, right?

Right. You got to have a game plan, you know, the question is, first of all, plans, they never survive contact with the enemy anyway. Right. Or, you know, or whatever circumstances life is going to, you're going to face.

So, you know, no matter what you could, your plan is to win the card game, but when you get the hand dealt, you know, you still got to play the hand that's in front of you. So, right.

Yeah, yeah, I have a plan with an asterisk. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And you pivot. I mean, you have to constantly be able to,

you have to be able to pivot. I mean, if you can't, if you can't adapt and adjust, and if you don't have any fluidity and your approach to, you know, life in general and your career, you won't have one. You know, being rigid is just a recipe for, you know, destruction. Right, right. Snapped. Snap to have. Right. Can you remember, and I don't want to put you on the spot, but I'm curious, can you remember a moment in your life or even something you're doing now or not doing now that was a pivot?

because I imagine you've just come to places where you're like, okay, I was headed this way. I got here. It wasn't where I wanted to be. And you've had to like... I mean, there have been many times. I mean, there have been many numerous occasions where, you know, things didn't go as planned. But I think it's, you have to have the ability to go from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm, right? You know, a specific instance.

If you can think of one. You know, there's been so many. I mean, you're going to fail more than you win, right? Right, right. I mean, that's just the nature of the beast. Yeah. So, I mean, you spend most of the time losing and then you win big. Right, right.

And then you spend a little more time losing and then you win big. Yeah. I mean, that's, at least that's how it's been for me. You strike me as somebody who's incredibly mentally tough. That's just like my impression of you. And I think you can't be in this business for this long without mental toughness. You know what I mean? And emotional toughness, right?

Not just the mental toughness, but you got a little shell around your heart. You'll cry yourself to sleep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Were you always like a mentally tough person? You know, look, there's a certain amount of maturity that goes into having a career that spans over decades. And, you know, I took things a lot more personally earlier in my career.

career, but you do become battle-hardened. But the key in that is that although you're battle-hardened, you still have to maintain, you know, that love and that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that thing inside of you, that's just loose and fluid and, and vibrant and happy and joyful, and young and youthful. You can't allow yourself to become bitter. You don't get bitter, get better, right? Right. So, you know, I've learned to, you know, embrace circumstances that aren't pleasing to me and allow it to lift me on the higher heights. You know what I'm saying? Because a kite flies against resistance, right?

It uses the wind's resistance to sail higher. So, you know, you just have to know how to do that. Keep pushing. And I also wonder if, I also wonder if, as an artist, You know, because that's the thing. You do meet guys and they get so hardened that it can kind of... It closes them off. Yes, exactly.

Yeah. It's fine. And that you've got to push through that to kind of stay open to, you know, just to being a lot, like being human. You do. Because you still want to love people. Yeah. You still got to be able to look somebody in the eyes. You still have to be able to hug people and love them.

Yeah. You still have to be able to see other people around you, you know? Yeah. It's a very delicate balance. You know, when you talk about going to the next level, because the next level, you know, it really is different. And people really are different and have to be different in order to get there. I mean, you know, it's it almost kind of is like, you know, it's weird to say because it's not that it can never be reversed. It's not like when you get to the next level, you can't go back to a level below.

Yeah. So let's not, you know, let's qualify the remark. But that being said, in order to get to the next level, it does require a different type of thinking and a different type of spirit, you know, a different type of mindset. It is not just like, you know, game business as usual. Right. Did you have a breakthrough in your life? Did you have a moment where you started thinking differently about how you move through the world? No, you know, it's just, it's just, you just learn.

I mean, you know, I was I was lucky enough and blessed enough to continue to be creative and have. success and along with that success, I was able to learn more about how to navigate success. Right. And then success begets success. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Sometimes it's just, you know, you get a good, you either get a good hand or you play a bad hand good.

Right. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah. It just works out. Yeah. You know, I can't really take but so much credit for it. You know what I'm saying?

Like, you know, nobody, I can't, I can't tell you that a 16-year-old, like I sat down and, you know, in my room with a pen and pad and said, this is how it's going to be. I'm going to have, you know, 10 platinum albums and two television shows and syndication and, you know, like, you know what I'm saying? Right, right, yeah.

But, I mean, and it's interesting. There's something about, there's a tenacity that just, you know, kind of keeps you moving forward, right? You got to be hungry. You've got to be hungry. Like, you can't be, you know, with all due respect,

You can't be old fat and lazy. You got to stay hungry. You got to be passionate. You know, sometimes you got to be ruthless. You've got to be determined. You're going to have to be unpredictable at times. Adventurous. You're going to have to, you know, for me, I believe in a higher power than myself.

You know, I have faith in God, you know, faith in myself. Right. And, you know, you got to dig deep. And you got to be willing to, you know, go through it to get what you want. You know, it's like it's not for the faint of heart. Success is not for the faint of heart. It's much easier to succeed at failing than it is to succeed at succeeding. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And I think a lot of people aren't mentally equipped for it, but I also think, and I find this very interesting about somebody like you who has had sustained success over a period of time, and you talked about staying hungry, I think it's very easy in success to lose your creative urgency. Yeah, it is. It definitely is.

but that's where love comes in. You know, because when you love what you do, it's different. You know what I mean? I've always found that the things that I'm most passionate about, the things that I feel truly connected to, you know, like I enjoy the idea of making people's lives better through entertainment. Like I think that's a wonderful thing, you know. I think art, the arts,

the arts are actually remembered much longer than even business. Like, you know, how many businessmen from ancient Rome do we really discuss? Right. How many businessmen? You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, we have a few politicians who wrote a few books, and, you know, we have, you know, the, you know, the Ciceroes and the, you know, the Tacitus's and all of these different people. But the reality is that art touches the world.

a different way. So when I get to make musical, I get to do a TV show and I get to do something that touches the world. Like, I feel like there's value there. I'm not just, I'm making a contribution to the earth, like, because there's a little kid somewhere who's just like me, who's going through tough times, and he'll get up there and he'll watch lip sync battle, or he'll go on YouTube and watch an LL Cool J video, or he'll watch me running around on my show in CIS, and he'll, it makes his life easier. And that's the part of it. And that's the person. of artists. That's why we're here. Right. Did you ever find yourself fall out of love specifically, well with anything

you do but maybe with hip-hop? Because it's the thing you've done the longest? No, you, you, I can, you can fall out of love with the business sometimes, but that's only when you take it personal. Yeah. You know, but those, you know, a career is like a marriage and your relationship with your audience is like a marriage, so you're going to have ebbs and flows. That's to be expected. nobody can be you know like you know like it's like two people in a relationship you you just gonna stay red hot horny for like 20 years straight like just just burning up fire on the terrace you know look at the over the tower over the balcony hanging off just on fire

forever like it's not possible no you know what I mean so same thing with with your art yeah you know that's why but that's why we evolve you know if I was out here right now And I still make music and I'll make more music in the future. But if I was out here only doing that, I would have never, it would mean that I hadn't evolved at all. It would mean that I was like kind of like at a standstill. And although it's okay, you know, to do your concert and there's nothing wrong with that, I mean, it's a beautiful thing. But it's more to my spirit. It's more to me than that.

Like I want to do TV shows. I want to do my movies. I want to do, you know, like, I got to be doing other stuff too because that's part of growing, right? Right, right. And it's so interesting because I think about this a lot. It's kind of philosophically how I approach things. Sometimes in a very thoughtful way, sometimes in a workaholic, scatter shot, like, bitch take a break kind of away. Do you know what I mean?

But I do believe that, like, you almost have a responsibility of yourself as an artist to put yourself, to attack the thing that you understand the least, to develop. the skill that is the least developed in you because otherwise, like you said, you're not growing. Right. And you know, I think, I think to add to that, it kind of goes back to the parable of the talents in the Bible. You know, if you have a few talents, three or four talents, you're supposed to multiply all of them or else you're cheating. You're not doing it right. Right, right. It's sinful to not do all your talents. So if I have the talent to host and I refuse to do that because I want a rap person, a rap community to feel about me a certain way. Or if I have the talent to act, but I refuse to do that because I want music crowd to feel a

certain way about me, I'm cheating myself and I'm not, I'm not, I'm sinning. I'm not giving God back what he gave me. I'm supposed to multiply these talents. So, you know, I'm doing my job. Right. I have the ability, anything I have the ability to do, I'm supposed to do that. That's why I have the ability. I don't have the ability because, you know, the parable isn't choose between one of these talents and multiply that one.

Right. It's multiply all of them, whether it's one, three, or five, right? I happen to be the guy who's given quite a few of them. Maybe the five, let's say. Yeah. So, but I have to multiply all of them. Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting to me.

We're going to do it from the beginning. We're going to the beginning now. So tell me where you were born. Oh, I was born in Bayshore, Long Island. and you know I was raised between Long Island and Queens mostly Queens but I also lived in North Babylon a good Long Island a good portion of my younger childhood. Did your family move around? No, what it was was my mother was in, I was born in Long Island.

My mother, we moved back to Queens for a while. When my father and mother separated, I was in Queens, then my mother remarried later. She was in North Babylon. And so, and then I was, but I was so used to being at my grandmother's house and so connected to them that I would kind of go back and forth. Plus she was working two jobs. So she would send me there sometimes the summer, sometimes I'd go to school there. Yeah. Then I'd go back to Long Island.

So I was kind of like back and forth, my early childhood back and forth between Queens and Long Island. My parents split up when I was pretty young. And I wonder, and everybody has a different experience with that, but I wonder if for you, it was difficult to move between the two places or whether it felt really natural to navigate. both. That's a good question. I think I enjoyed it. Let me switch it up a little bit. Yeah. See life from different perspectives. You know, I'm in Queens.

It's more in a city. I have my whole group of friends out there. You know, everybody I grew up with out there. Then I have Long Island, which is it's New York, but it's a little more that particular part of Long Island at that time, North Babylon was a little more, I guess, folksy,

a little more country. a little bit. Yeah. You know, so I kind of got both sides. Yeah. And then I, you know, in Long Island, I actually, that's where I was actually, I had, like, white friends kind of. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Whereas in Queens, I didn't meet many because of the community. You just didn't really mix that much, even though, I mean, when you're older, you mix, because the subway train bus, all that, of course. But going to elementary school, this is all black male elementary school, basically. Right. Although I did have one friend, you know, my aunt Jeannie, you know, Richie, this Jewish kid was my friend. But it was just an interesting dynamic, you know.

Did you feel like a chameleon? Did you behave? You know, people talk a lot about also about black people specifically kind of navigating two places. Oh, that bicultural thing? Yeah, you know, I mean. Speaking differently. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah.

When they start that, oh, yeah. No, no, I don't do that. I'm not that guy. Like, yo, when I get on the phone, I don't care who's on the other end. This is the voice. You know, it's like, it's like, you know, I know what you mean, though. It's like,

yo, hey Todd. Oh, hey, Bill. How are you? How's it going? Oh, man, I look so forward to it. Yo, yo, what I'd be? Yo, what's happening? Man, what's going?

Yeah, nah, no, I don't hear that. No, no, I don't do that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's interesting, though, because, you know, it's so, it's so funny. and I do think a lot of times. They feel like it's necessary. Yeah, you're trying to just not so much hide who you are, but just

navigate. Just navigate the two worlds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think, I think navigating all those worlds just comes from being an authentic person and making good decisions. Yeah. You know, it's, I've learned that everybody is pretty much the same. And this idea that you have to be like other people is,

is a trick. You know what I mean? Like, you know, you're being fooled. It's actually, you're being seduced into reinforcing an inferiority complex. Interesting. That's really, that's beautifully put. Wow. It's really perceptive.

You know what I'm saying? You don't have to do that. Yeah. It's like, you know. Yeah, I've got to be somehow what I am isn't good enough. I've got to be other. Yeah. Yo, you want a glass of water?

Yeah. Here's a glass of water. Yeah. We don't have to. You want a glass of, you know. Like a beverage. Yeah, you like a beverage. Yeah, you want a glass of water, be?

Here's a glass of water. You know, my track record speaks for itself. I don't have to, like, switch up the lingo and all that. Right. So tell me, like, when you're coming up, because we're around the same age, and I'm not a hip-hop historian, but I feel like hip-hop was still kind of magical and pretty new. Definitely. Do you remember, like, your first exposure to it?

Oh, many. many different ways, but I mean, it started off just like hearing Cold Crush tapes you know, Cold Crush 4 and Grand Master Kaz and those guys. And there was that, that was that New York. There was New York, inner city,

New York, floating around New York. And then it kind of, you know, like there was a four-some seas and there was Grand Wizard Theater and the fantastic romantic freaks and, you know, all of these different groups that was circulating. Then it started getting on wax, and there was, Rabbis Delight came out, obviously, and all that.

King Tim III and Lady B. And, you know, all of those, all of that stuff really, like, you know, it hypnotized me, you know. And then I remember one day I was walking in school, I was in junior high school. So I must have been around. That time, I guess I was. 13, 14. I had to be, maybe, could have been 12. I don't know if it was early junior high, so it was between 12 and 14. I was walking down, and I remember, I think I was about 12, because this kid was walking in front of me, and it was like, it was like the whole, I guess some of the lights were out

in the school, so it was like the hallway was kind of dark, but the lights were coming in through the windows, and it was like, you know how the hallway has that echo sound. Yes. Right. And I was, and I was looking at him, he was down the hall, and he had a knapsack on, and he was, like, doing his little ditty bop, you know, the way he was walking. And he was singing, this DJ, he gets down, mixing records while they go around. And I was just, like, looking at him from the,

while he was walking down the hallway, and the way it sounded to me, and it was like, I just got, like, hypnotized, and I just said to myself, I want to do that. Like, it just hit me just like that, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. It was just like almost like a, like, like a spell like when he it was like this DJ it was like when he was singing and I was like

just kind of like watching them and it was like yeah that's what it is like right there and right and after that I started writing did you yeah yeah I started writing when I was about 12 so yeah that's about wow oh that's I mean it's I always love hearing about like the moment when someone because in a lot of ways it's it's a decision but it's not a decision to become an artist you know It's like something in you and you're just waiting for the answer, right? You're waiting for a way to describe it, you know? So I always love hearing about what that moment is like for people because like you said, it was almost like a trance, like an out-of-body thing.

Yeah, like a realization. Yeah, it was, an epiphany. Yeah. So you started writing at that age. I started writing at 12. And I had been a fan since nine. And for three years I was a fan. And then that day when he did that, I started writing and, you know, the rest is, you know, my story.

Yeah, not his story, your story. So you start writing and then, look, this is a time everybody, you know, where, like, they're, and it's so funny, I mean, even though we're the same age, like, in a lot of ways, I can't remember what it was like before technology. Do you know, it's such a part of our lives now that the idea that you could go make a record now is like, of course you could go make a record. But back then, did you have, even though you were writing rhymes, like, were you like, okay, and now I'm going to do this. Like, was it the path clear? Yeah, well, I used to, you know, I would listen to, to record. and imagine myself like shrinking and going through the needle into the vinyl, into the place where they were at and participating.

Yeah. I mean, you know, so, you know, crossing that bridge to success, it's about believing it, you know, it's about seeing it. You know, you got to believe it, man. You got to speak it. You got to see it. You got to really believe. But, I mean, coming from the experience that, you know, you are, or I came from,

And when we were growing up, entertainment, to me, at least, felt very magical. It felt very other. Oh, it was absolutely. Yeah. It was absolutely magical. But, you know, that was the magic of the magic. Like, it was like, I want to make magic. Yeah.

I want to be a part of that. Yeah. And I would like, so I would go to like, you know, there was no Google. There was no Bing. Yeah. You couldn't, you know, you had to. So I would go to a record store. You couldn't download it.

I'd go to a record store and I'd look. at all the songs that look like they might be hip hop. Okay. Or even something remotely close, dance, hip hop, anything in that street culture vein. Right. I would buy as many as I could. And anything I couldn't get, I'd just write the addresses down. And I'd send demo tapes out.

Wow. How would you make the demo tapes? Well, what happened was I, my mother, I had actually started, I had got a couple of rejection letters. Were you just doing them in your room at that time? Yeah, yeah, we're just doing them on the box. Right, with the little two recorder. Yeah, with the two recorder. You guys used put the two recorder when you push the red button and the black button.

Just think boombox, y'all. I love it. Just think boombox, old school boombox. I love it. I just press record and just do it that way with music playing in the background. And then I got rejection letters from a couple of labels. And I was about to quit. My mother found a rejection letters.

So she talked to me. She said, Todd, you sound as good as a lot of guys on the radio better than a lot of them. You got to just keep going. I said, well, I don't have any equipment to make a real demo, and I'm doing it. So she happened to get her tax return. Not too long after that. She took her tax return, and she bought me a drum machine. And that drum machine, I took that drum machine.

We were so excited that I couldn't even, we didn't even wait to learn how to program it. We played it by hand. We played the beats by hand and I did the thing on the mic and everything, and we did the whole thing. Me and my man, Finesse. Okay. sent the tape in. And now once you got the,

because we've gotten a couple of rejections, but once you got your drum machine, how many demos did you send out? Do you remember? I sent out one. Just one to one place. Yep. That was to Rick Rubin at the NYU dorm.

Okay. So Rick, this is pre. This is Rick Rubin. But before his label, which wasn't Def Jam, what was his label? No, he had a production company called Def Jam. It wasn't a label.

It was a party time was a label. Okay. And you knew him because you had seen his name on the back of albums? I didn't know him at all. I just saw his name on that particular song. Oh, wow. And I just sent it in. And then Ad Rock from the Beastie Boys had listened to it somehow and let Rick hear it.

Oh, my God. And they liked it in a few. And I used to call him every day. Yeah. Every day. Every day. Call him every day. And, you know, did you get the tape?

Did you get the tape? No, I didn't get it yet. You get the tape like every day. And then finally, I guess he must have told him, man, Let me listen to that tape. Like this kid, right? He keeps calling. So then I finally, you know.

So they heard it. They heard it. And they called you? He called me. I went to his dorm the next day, next morning. Because he called, because I remember I walked in the house. My grandmother, she could tear a name up better than anybody in the world. So she, you know, dick, slick, dick, trick, Ruben, you know, sniff, parsley nip, you know, quick Rubin, quick stooping.

You know. You're like, wait, who? You know, order me a Rubin. We had a Rubin sandwich. A guy called, he has a Rubin sandwich for you. Yeah, a guy called with a Rubin sandwich. So I'm like, all right, so I called, you know, I called him. He was like, I was like, I just remember, like, being so excited in the kitchen.

Called him back right then and there. He said, I got the tape. Come in, we're going to make a record. I went crazy. He said it to you on the phone. Come in, we're going to make a record. We're going to make a demo. Yeah.

So I went in the next day. And, you know, I went down there. I took the subway, 16. took a subway down to his house, down to his dorm room, five university place, right in the NYU dorms, went up in there.

We made a quick demo called Catch This Break. You just showed up with your book of lyrics. I just came up with, yeah, I had them in my head already. He just came up with stuff. We did a quick demo,

took it over to Russell, Simmons, who was managing artists at the time. He was managing his brother, Run DMC, Curtis Blown, a couple other people. He had a little office.

Yeah. Went over there and played it for him. Russell was like, oh, it's the same old things. I was like, Tretcher's three. It sounds like this one. It sounds like that one. It's the same old same. So Rick was like, you think so? Okay. So we went back in the studio like a couple of days later and made this song, I Need a Beat. And when Russell heard that, he was like, yo, this is so good.

Now we got to start a label, Debjams. So because Rick was having problems, getting his fees from party time because it was a production company. Right, right. So he took, Forage Yours, which was a song. And, you know, next thing you know. And so it was Rick and Russell It was Rick and Russell Me and Rick made the song And then Russell When he heard the song Loved it and wanted to be a partner's with Rick

In the label Wow and were you their first artist? Yeah, Def Jam was born, yeah On the label, yeah That's incredible Yep And Def Jam was born from there That was your first single too

Yeah, yeah it was my first single How Do you remember And it's hard because I was Obviously members are colored by You know the experiences that follow But do you remember what that time felt like for you.

Oh, yeah. I felt like, I mean, like you hit Lotto, your Christmas is on birthday, your birthday's on Christmas, you hit Lotto, and,

and you just lost your virginity. Yeah, you lost your virginity with an orgasm. With multiple orgasms. You did it right the first time, right? With multiple orgasms, you know what I mean? It's just like everything you love.

Right. And to want something for that long, and then for it to be happening, it's kind of, it's a little surreal, right? Oh, it was just, oh. Yeah. It's amazing. It's amazing. You, I wonder, because sometimes with a lot of artists, very early on in their career, and obviously hip-hop's news, so there's not that many things to compare your work to. And, you know, you had an original sound, I think, from the beginning.

But I wonder if in those early days you either struggled or disagreed with the people you're working. with about what your sound was going to be. Oh, yeah. Definitely. I mean, definitely. Like my second, Rick and I only did my first album. That was it. And then we did a couple other songs going back to Cali and a couple of other songs.

Right. But like, when I did, I Need Love, he was like, oh, this is, you like, you like it that much, put it out first. This is, nah, this, you can't do this. I'm like, I like it. Right. Nah, you can't do it. Nobody was doing, nobody was doing this kind of like, ballads.

Yeah. We thought it was all bad, but it was all good. Right. I mean, it was wrong. You're almost, and I may be wrong about this, but I feel like in my memory, you were the person who, like, created that category of hip-hop. I wasn't the first got to talk to females on a record, but I definitely was the first to make it so romantic. To make it romantic. I mean, it was more like, I want to have sex with you and less like I want to, like, make love to you.

I was definitely the first to make it so romantic. Right. And everything about it thematically felt different, I think. It was. But he wasn't feeling it. No, he wasn't feeling at all. But I put it out second. We put on bad out, and then we put that out, and it exploded.

So he was totally wrong. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because I also think as an artist, you have to kind of follow your gut, but you have people always telling you. Oh, definitely. I know, I know better. And then there's always the opposites, too, you know, the opposites. Now, you know, when I did going back to Cali, I hated it.

Really? Yeah, yeah. I was going crazy. It was too different. Really? It was just so different. But when you were making it, did it feel different? Were you just like, you see how this goes?

Yeah, I was kind of. like going with the flow. He was like, come on, just trust me. You know, and it was like, you know, that was with the whole, I don't think so. Yeah. I was like, I don't think so. You know what I mean? We just kept it. Yeah. We kept it. Then we just kept it. It's like, that was a genuine emotion. I don't think so. I don't think so. That's wild. Yeah, yeah. So sometimes you are surprised by the way that people receive without a doubt. Without a doubt. And then, you know, you'll get the

those records you love that people hate, you get those records you hate that people love, you get those records that you're, have nothing, feel nothing that catch. It's all kind of weird kind of things that can happen, you know what I mean? I never do this, but I have to because you have so many albums and I'll never have remembered them all. I never cheat on the show, but I'm going to cheat right now because I want to ask you about the time between your first album and your second album. Okay. I'm going to pull it up right now. That would be radio and bigger and deffer. Yes.

And that would be between 85 and like 87. You do your first album and it's almost, I don't know, I'm not, okay, here we go. I had it up already, but I couldn't find it. So you do your first album and it's immediately successful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I guess I wonder between those two periods of time, are you thinking, oh, here's what I want to do differently or here's how I'm going. Because you didn't work with Rick again.

Nah, but him and Russell had a falling out. He basically left the company. Right. When I was making a second album, he was a... No, he went... Well, he ended up on American records, and he did his own thing. But, you know, I was signed to the label. He kind of, like...

He moved on. He moved on, kind of. And, no, I... It wasn't about... I just did what I wanted to do. Right. I just said, okay, I just do what I want to do. Yeah.

I was so excited to me making records. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it didn't, it didn't even register to me that he wasn't in the picture. Yeah, like, clever. Moving on. Yeah. Anyway.

Bye, Felicia. Bye, Felicia. I feel you, because there is something, I mean, I'm not surprised by that because there's something one pointed about you. Yeah, I had to do it. I just had to do it. Yeah, you had to keep going. Yeah. Yeah.

You had, like, I mean, you said 10 platinum albums and some of them were like, you know, multiple double triple platinum. But after that first album, you went on, do you go on tour of the Beastie Boys? I went, I was on the Raisin' Hell tour. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was on that tour. But that was around 86, yeah, Raisin'Hel Tour.

What was it like for you now? Because up until this point, maybe you were performing around your neighborhood for your friends and everything like that. Then you make a record. Were you excited about going on tour? Yeah, I was so excited. Yeah.

I was so excited. I mean, you got to understand. And the only time I spent in hotels prior to that was family reunions. Right, right. Like, I was happy. Right. It was fancy. Yeah, yeah.

It was like, yo, it was fancy. Even if it wasn't fancy, it was fancy. It was mine. We got the room. Room service. Oh, oh, Denny's. Yay! You know what I mean?

Like, I was like loving it. Right. I was so excited. Right. So happy to be on the road. Did you take naturally to the live performance part of it? Loved it. Yeah.

Loved it. I mean, you know, waste of the live. lot of energy. You know, you have to learn how to perform, but, you know, may he rest in peace, you know, this dude Cornell Clark, who's my road manager. He also happened to be like a dance kind of guy. He taught me a lot about performing, you know, and it was, because you have, I've seen you perform and you have such an intense presence on stage. But, you know, a lot of guys, especially when they're young, you know, wrapped their feet. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's, you know, that's, you know, like going on stage with Run DMC, though, taught me a lot, you know, at the time they were so big and had so many big hits.

Because they had a full album or two of hits before me, like at least an album and a half of hits. Yeah. Like with many hits. So it was like, I got to learn a lot. Yeah. About what, you know, and I just was on the road early. I mean, we're talking, you know, I'm 16. When I was 16, I started doing shows.

Wow. 17. I'm on tour. Yeah. And I just learned how to, I just learned. It just something, it just kind of came natural to me, the getting out there and getting busy. Like, I never wanted to just stand there and just kind of, you know, you know, with the, with the, with the, with the, with the, with the, with the, with the, with the, with the, you know, my man playing dice in the corner. Right.

Right. You know, my son on my shoulders. That whole, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You wanted to put it in. Yeah.

Plus, I would, like, see, like, new addition and see run DMC and, you know, see all these different artists out there, performance. and Michael Jackson, you know, and I just thought, you know, a show supposed to be big. Right. What was it like touring with Run DMC? It was a lot of fun. I mean, it was crazy because I used to just sit around and just, you know, you know, Run would just remind me about how much money he was making. It was.

Which was a lot of fun, though, because I was excited, actually. I was happy. It was like, yo, I'd walk in this room. They have, like, you know, it'd be like a lot of cash sitting on the tables. Money sitting around. You know, just cash in the room. Oh, my God. Wow.

And where they're picking up some of their cash. And it was just like a lot of money. And I'm looking at it and it's not mine. And I don't have as much. It was just exciting. You know what I mean? Like it was wild. And then I'd be around like even the Fresh Fest too.

Like Houdini and Jarlal and, you know, Houdini, I'd go to Brooklyn and Jahl will ride me around. And he's singing friends to me in the back of a cab. Oh, my God. You know, and, you know, run would come to my house and pick me. up and, you know, he's so hilarious. What did you think when your grandmother, too,

you did run DMC came by to pick you up? I'm like, look at this dude. Like, yo, are you serious? Like, are you seriously asking me this right now? I'm like, I can't even believe this dude right now. But I love him, man. It's like I had a lot of great times with all of them, like, you know, ecstasy, my man, DMC,

and fat boys. I mean, this was like a golden era of hip-hop. Yeah, it was wild. I mean, the story. It's like being in the rap pack and like, oh, and then Frank Sinatra came to pick me up. I mean, that's what it was like. What were you going to? What story were you going to tell?

I mean, it was just too many. I mean, it's just so many. It's just so many. I mean, but it was just like hanging out with, you know, everybody. I mean, I've, it's just amazing, you know. Oh, God, there was a question that it was so good. And where did it go. It was, oh, well, first of all, it was about seeing kind of watching you on the MC and seeing where you could go.

Where you could go. What was possible? What was possible? And I imagine that, because just hearing who you were as a child, I imagine that's what you envision, right? That that was your path. No question. And it was just kind of, you know, seasonal moment, you know?

Like, oh, wow. Oh, yeah. Shows? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. You know? Okay. It's like, oh, yeah.

Let's do it. Yeah. Get money. And then I'm like, I'm going to school. Like, and then I'm going on tours. So you were touring and you were still in school? Yeah. It was weird, though.

But I was so excited. I'd be walking around school with my wrecking under my arms. Guys getting jealous, they upset. They think I'm showing off. I'm not showing off. I'm just excited to have that I made a wreck. Yeah, but they took it wrong. I was wrong.

I should have known. I didn't. It was like, you know, all of those little things, it was crazy. Did you ever get into, I mean, did people challenge you? Did you ever get into fights over it? Oh, yeah. I got in a few fights, you know, but that always, they usually didn't turn out too well for the other person.

I don't know what you're working. What can on you know. I could have learned about it. Right, right. Most of the time I did pretty well in that department Okay, so tell me this You're 16, 17, 18 years old

You're still in high school You have a record, you have a hit record And you're touring with Ren DMC And without putting to find a point on it Answer this, whenever way you feel comfortable I imagine That pussy was falling out of the sky Oh, that's funny, that's funny

And I can see clearly now The rain is gone. Out of the sky. Like, how did you get that black eye? Oh, it was a brown sky. That's hilarious. But if I expand it to, like, all of it, like, was there, did it ever feel overwhelming to you? Did you?

No. Because, you know, one thing, and, you know, one thing about me is I was always a guy that was about quality, not quantity. And I never felt like, I never really, I never was a guy that felt like I had. to see how many girls I could sleep with. Yeah. You know, that was never really my thing. I mean, even if, you know, you think about it now in Hollywood, I'm just not that dude that's run around gunsling.

You know, that was never my thing. I was definitely, you know, naughty. Don't get me wrong. I'm trying to take anything away from you. I was the wild out. But it wasn't about lots and lots and lots of girls. Like every town, six girls, five girls. You know, it was like, I knew a girl here.

And I have friends who've done that and they were like, you know, they were looking back to like, Like, I wish I hadn't. Like, it didn't really... Yeah. It didn't... Yeah. Because, you know, I had fun. Yeah.

I had fun, but, you know, I didn't... You know, I didn't go bananas. Yeah. You know, I didn't go, like, fully. Right. You know what I'm saying? That wasn't really my focus, you know what I'm saying? But I did have a good time.

Good. Don't get me wrong. Good. You know. You know, I definitely... Because I always wonder, I mean, like, when success happens to people at that age, it can be overwhelming. And I don't even just mean girls.

I mean, I mean, all of it. It can feel some people are just mentally well equipped for it and some people struggle with it. Yeah, but you know, my mother was, you know, mother's a very interesting person because she would tell me things like, you know, Todd, you know, if you do drugs, you won't have a long career, you know that, right? And I just be like, I just sit there like, oh, oh, oh, yeah, okay. Or she said, you know, girls don't like dummies, Todd, you know that, right? I'll be like, oh, yeah, okay. And she said, you know, if you, you sleep with too many of them, you devaluing yourself.

It's not really. That's sweet. And I'd be like, oh, yeah. Yeah. But I'd listen, you know. So she'd like always throw these little things at me that would make me think. Yeah. So I never, you know, I had one foot in the pool, but I wasn't like back stroking.

Right. You know, breaststroking. You know what I mean? I wasn't doing a breaststroke. Yeah. I was sitting on the edge of the pool with my feet in. Oh, I have my feet in, be up to the knees. Yeah, yeah.

But I wasn't like just, you know. Yeah, just no, just, you know. Yeah. Just nose poking out above water. Yeah, just Coke, orgy, you know, you know. Yeah. It wasn't, yeah. It's, you know, it's always interesting to me because I think,

especially when someone just, you have to be really driven to be successful at that age. But then again, sometimes. Takes discipline. You're in adult situations and you're not an adult. That's right. And, you know, there's a couple of things. I had good guys that, you know, I've been on tour with different people and, you know, they were doing drugs. And harder drugs.

And I would say, oh, let me get something. And they would say, no, no, you don't need none of this, you don't need this. I just had, like, a lot of, and I remember there was one time, there was a point in my career where, like, it was about maybe three or four shows in a row, maybe four or five. I was like, oh, let me get a glass of champagne before the show. Oh, let me get a glass of champagne.

And one day, I was like, let me get a glass of champagne. And my role manager was like, nah. And me and him gotten a fight over him, my man, you know, Tony Rome. We got actually in a big argument because I wanted to have a glass of champagne before my concert. And he was like, nah, because he felt like I guess he saw that I was becoming dependent on that. Yeah. Like that was becoming like my thing. And that could have spiraled.

And he just was like, no. And he just, he made me go out there without it. And I thank him for that, you know. And did you feel a difference performance ways? Oh, no. I mean, I was fine. Right. You know, I did my thing because the champagne was a, that was like four shows in a row of like looking for comfort, nerves, anxiety.

You know, like just like even like just having my man like my man E-love, I used to be like, yo, just stand there with the box. What don't want to do? Nothing. Just stand there. So I just had, I know if somebody familiar is here, let me, why do my thing. Right, right, right. You know what I mean? Yeah.

So, you know, it was. Yeah. Yeah. of a vibe, you know. I want to talk about how, when you got into acting, like, was that move, something that was a conscious choice for you? Oh, yeah. While I was dreaming of making music, I also was dreaming of making movies.

I used to, there was a friend of mine. I don't know where he is now. His name was Pierre. And he was like one of the few people in the neighborhood, they had like portable video recorders and camcorders and all that early, early on. And we used to make, like, fake karate movies and action movies. And I'd, like, have my Game of Death suit, my Bruce Lee suit. I'd jump off a rock.

He'd reverse the film. We'd be going backwards. You know? Because Bruce Lee made me want to be an action star. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, what happened is when I was doing music, we had agents for booking concerts. Yeah.

And eventually, an agent was saying, you know, there's an audition. You know, there's this, there's that. then kind of crush groove came around that was 85 so that was like a year into my career right and that made perfect sense obviously yeah and I was really only scheduled to be an extra because the real story is I overslep I was supposed to shoot a video for my first song

I can't live without my radio first single for my album and I overslept I was out hanging out I did a show or something I just overslept Russell called me up what the fuck you at you're killing me right now $50,000 you god damn it you didn't show up you're not getting this is ridiculous and I'm like oh I didn't I was like the young artist stupid you know I blew it so when they did cross groove I was an extra I was supposed to be

an extra and my man Cornell man he rests in peace was like now you got to get down there every day so if you look at crush group you see me like carrying crates you see me walking in the background you see me being everywhere and I was just begging Russell for a part and eventually I guess he figured out well he didn't have the video So maybe we can let them do a piece of, I can't live without my radio and the movie. Yeah. And that movie basically like, you know,

it like just, yeah, launched my career on a whole other level. And then when you, obviously over your career, you've moved between the two things. But when you had your series, the first one in the house. In the house, yeah. Did you find that it took you away from music or it distracted you? It definitely did.

It definitely took me away from music. But my thing was I just, I wanted to fulfill all of my talents, you know what I'm saying? I wanted to explore everything. And I also, you know, I never was comfortable with the idea of only making money in one area. You're like, I didn't want to be, you know, slave to the music business. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

You know, and the first time I had to go down there and ask for in advance or look for some money, that was a little uncomfortable for me. I said, I'm not doing that. Yeah. That's not going to be my life. Right. Because I saw where that was going. Yeah.

Yeah. And you see a lot of other guys who do feel that way, right? Like they're a slave to their label. They can't. Yeah. I was never going to be that. Yeah. That's why, you know, I have multiple streams.

I do multiple things. So, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm going to eat regardless by the grace of God. Like, so, you know, I have great relationships with people don't get me wrong. And I need all the people I'm in business with. I love being in business with them. but I'm going to eat. Right.

You know, I, you know, do many things. So it was like, it was like, you know what? You know, I remember, you know, going to Russell and he was, ah, we'll see about it. You know, he wasn't too keen on, you know, the idea of an advance at that, whatever that was. I said, you know what? I said, oh, okay.

Next, you know, I had, in the house. In the house. In the house. in the house and he couldn't say anything about it Oh no No he called me up a few months in like Oh so the show's doing well huh

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Absolutely So you know I mean that was

You know And that's what that was about And you know I know that In the music industry You know There are some people who feel like Well

If you're successful in other areas You can't love music But that's not true Because I never did it only for money. I always wanted money because I wanted to be successful. Right. But I love music and I still do. So it's not

like it's middle finger to the music industry now because I'm doing other things. Like I still want to make music. Like I still have plans on, you know, hopefully doing more music and giving people more you know, vibes. But I just didn't want to only be doing that.

Just like I don't only want to do TV now. Right. I'm not going to give up my music career live concerts and all the things I have going. Yeah. Because I do TV. So I like doing different things. Have you ever found in as an adult, as an adult artist, a time when all of these things felt unmanageable to you? That's interesting.

Well, you know, here's a good and the bad of it, right? The answer is yes. But, you know, when I started in hip hop, There weren't a lot of great hip hop managers, all right. Russell being a part of the label, he kind of managed, but then it was a conflict, so he really couldn't manage me, really. How's he going to manage me and be the label? Right. And that kind of, so even though I had a manager here and a manager there, and people who did fairly good job, did the best that they could here and there, including my father and other people, for the most part, I was.

always I managed myself. In other words, like, there may have been other people involved with decisions, but I was managing myself and making up figuring out my own situation. So when you fast forward to now, I have the experience, like, you know, like, of any manager. There's no manager that's going to, like, have more experience than me, like, unless they just really have more years in. but in terms of like experience like

so I learned how to manage myself you know I ultimately so you know when people saw me I remember seeing artists flocked to guys who who they thought were managing me and when in reality I was the one making the decisions right now I have a great team around me don't get me wrong I don't want to discredit my team

my team is unbelievable like I have a great team around me and I have a lot of respect for them now and my whole team is amazing. Like, I have great people. But in terms of my music career and growing in this whole journey that I've been on, I've, you know, I've had managers in a traditional sense, but I was the leader. Right. No, I mean, I think people don't understand that from outside of the business.

I think a lot of times it looks like the management team is in control, but you're the general and everybody else is a soldier. Well, they're managers, but in the corporate sense, like they're real managers. Right, yeah. They're concierge. want your advice, but I'm going to make the decision. And that's the way it ended up being for me. Now, you have to have great concilaries. You have to have great counselors. A wise man attains wise counsel. So if you don't have great people around you, your career is not going to go far.

But you have to be able to make decisions on your own. Have you ever had somebody that you had to cut loose? Lots of people. Yeah. Lots of people. That comes with territory. I mean, yeah, yeah. It can be painful, though. Sometimes. I mean, you always have your eye on a prize, but a lot of times people can be in your life and then you realize they've kind of reached the limit. No, I actually sleep better. You did. You're like, oh, you're like, oh, you. That I cut that dude out. Got that out the way.

Dug that lie pit. Hala! Good riddance to bad rubbish. Yeah, yeah. No, I got a, you know, I mean, yeah, no, I just, yeah. You know, you don't look back. I mean, it could be tough, but, you know, probably the toughest one was, you know, you know, letting my father go.

You know, may he rest in peace. But, you know, I had just had my son and my thinking was this. And I was young. That was about 19. But I said, how am I going to take care of my son if my father's taking care of me? Yeah. Just seemed backwards to me.

Yeah. I had to let him go. How was that conversation for you? It was tough because he didn't take it well. You know, there was some, some financial things in there that I wasn't comfortable with and some things that I thought were improprieties or and in hindsight it was just it was he was just in over his head

wasn't that he was trying to be a bad guy I mean I don't think you know a couple of bottles from a wine from Trader Joe's is like makes him a terrible guy you know what I'm saying like come on me like it's not really that serious but it's um you know he was in all of his head you know we had never seen you know at that time you know that kind of money and And so it was a little tough. But I, you know, I just had to, you know, I just realized that, you know, I had to do it on my own. I had to do it by my own, make my own rules and do it on my own terms.

Right. You know what I mean? Right. And then, you know, he's, oh, yeah, he'll lose his house by next week, you know, all that. You know, he's trying to prophesy the negativity. I ain't receiving none of that. Did your relationship, did it bounce back? Oh, yeah.

ultimately became friends again before he passed away and you know but you know a man has to be a man yeah you know like you're gonna be a man or you're gonna be a mouse you gotta figure that out

yeah like you know what I'm saying and the way we started the conversation was that sometimes the right what's the right thing to do what you know is the right thing to do can also be like a really difficult thing to do it can be the thing that you resist or you rationalize or you you know yeah but you got to do what's best

for what you try to accomplish Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I think, you know, this is an, you know, an audition for a Hallmark commercial. This is business. Right. Look at you. You know what I'm saying? Like, yo.

Yeah. Yeah. Seriously. You know, and I think the dooms on the street that are listening here understand. totally what I'm saying. Like I'm, you know, I'm not going to, you know, I don't make decisions based on, you know, you be being my favorite. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. But now, okay, before you do self-inflicted boons, now you're in this position, right, where you're just, you're, you are like an icon, like you're an iconic brand. And you can pretty much do anything that

you want. Within reason. Within reason. You know, and I think in a different way than maybe when you were 25, obviously, you know, you always want to win, but kind of your criteria change when you get older, right? Just about like, I'm a creative and satisfied. Plus because you're in a position where you're making enough, you know, you have a series, have a hit series. So like, I always think about the fact that, like, you want to be, as an artist, you want to put yourself in a position to make some art. It doesn't really matter how it's received. You just get to do your thing. But it always matters, though.

The idea that it doesn't matter is just a way people defend themselves from the people. from the pain of failure. The reality is I don't want to put music out that isn't successful, ever. And it makes me sick when I have a record that doesn't perform. Right. It does. It's not a matter of whether I need it to live or not. I love doing it, and I want to win.

It's like, you know, it's like being an athlete. I don't play football and not go to the Super Bowl. I don't box to not have a belt around my waist. I don't play basketball and not have a ring. Right. You know, yeah, you're making money, you're living, but it hurts to go home. You see those guys on the bench the other day, you know, after they lost, you know, the playoffs, I think it was Atlanta. You know, they didn't look happy over there.

They all getting paid, but it wasn't about that all the time. You want to win. Right. So, yeah, I'm, you know, I like to win, you know, I like to, and I like to help the people around me win. And I like the people that I'm in business with the win, too. There's nobody that's been in business with me that, you know, that brought what they needed to bring to the table that didn't walk away a winner. Right.

You know what I'm saying? Does that philosophy, and I understand it, so I'm coming at it from a similar perspective, but does that philosophy ever, this isn't going to be articulated properly, but see if it makes sense. Does that philosophy ever haunt you, always wanting to win? Does it ever? Oh, no, because I understand that in always wanting to win, you will lose sometimes. You know, wanting to win

doesn't mean you're not capable of handling a loss Right Because like we said earlier, right? You go from loss to loss without, from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm. You lose and then you get a big win. You know, it happens. You know, I had a, you know, pilot that failed

before NCISLA exploded. You know, I had another pilot that didn't go before lip sync battle exploded. I mean, you know, I've had things. Yeah. You know, people just don't always see the failures. Right. You know what I'm saying?

But it happens. It happens to all of us. But that's what champions are made of, right? You know, that's what it's about. That's, you know, separates the saints from the ains, baby. That's what it's about. It's what it's about, you know what I mean? Is there something that you want to do that you haven't done?

Yeah. Just take it to the next level. I haven't been there yet. Not physically. Yeah. Yeah. That's a very expansive statement. There could be a lot of things.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it could be a lot of things. All right. Do you have a self-inflicted wound story we were talking about at the beginning? Yeah, I think I have one. I think probably my best self-inflicted wound story that I help people is, you know, when we started, you know, deaf jam, ultimately, I, you know, I had ownership in Def Jam. And right around the time when I was dealing with some things with my father, things got a little rough, it was a little tough, things were, and I sold my equity in Def Jam a little prematurely. I got a lot of money for it at the time. But ultimately, it would have been worth like, you know, a hundred times what I sold it for, or 50 times what I sold it for.

And, you know, it was funny because I remember, you know, selling it and then, you know, and, you know, selling it and then, you know, you know, and, you know, you know, and, you know, you know, and, you know, you know, you know. know, and Leo calling me up, why did you do this? What? And I was like, oh, I had things that, and they probably thought in their minds that I just didn't care and wanted the money then. Right. They didn't know I needed it for something. Right. But my ego didn't allow me to tell them that I needed it for something.

Because if I went to them the right way, I probably could have figured it out without doing that. Yeah. But I didn't know any better. And my ego wouldn't allow me to do that. So I sold, you know, a piece of something that ultimately was a, extremely valuable and would have been worth significantly more, way more than I got. And I remember calling Russell. I'm like, you know, I know I know I sold it, but, you know, I helped build it and blah, blah, blah,

and I was upset and blah, blah, blah. And Russell's like, all right, well, I'll talk to Lear and I'll get back to you. And I called him up and he called me back and he said, I spoke to Lear, had a conversation with him. And it wasn't a good one. It wasn't a good one. Oh my God. Yeah, he typed me up. You said, you know, he said, no.

Like, they're not doing that. Like, you know. Yeah. And so I had to eat that. You know, and, you know, look, listen, you know, the equity was mine. Nobody put a gun to my head and told me to sell it. You know, that was millions of dollars that I could have had right there that I didn't get because, you know, I sold early. because I didn't understand the value

and my ego was in the way. And I was ignorant. And, you know, it was definitely self-inflicted. And, you know, and I was tight with Russell for about two years. You know, I was walking around with the, you know,

with my bottom teeth coming out my chin. You know what I mean? Just, you know, with my top teeth, rather, coming out my chin. Right, right. You know what I mean? Like, biting down on it, like, you know what I? I felt like my butt, my top teeth

were touching the bottom of my throat, my esophagus. I just be sitting there We'll be at like a premiere or something I'd just be staring at the back of his head You know what I mean Just looking at the back of his head You know how you're mad

When you're just looking at the back of somebody's head He's just like look at the back of his head I'd like to just look at the back of their head Like I just was like All in the back of his head Like everything was about the back of his head Like look at the back of his head Smofuckers he didn't give you that money

They lavish right now They, yo, they're getting fat while I starve. You know, I'm sick. You know. But then I said, you know what? I just had to, you know, look, I had to realize, man, like, you know, you got to be a big boy and you got to grow up sometimes. And you know what? They didn't do that to me.

Yeah. It wasn't their fault. You know, I could be mad all I want. And yeah, they could have been merciful. Yeah. They could have been. But they didn't. And I, you know, I put myself in that position.

Right. You see what I'm saying? So I have to respect them. But then, you know, later on, you know, I ended up doing a deal, you know, with Leoy and I ended up getting my catalog back, which was like a nice kind of, you know, but I positioned myself to get that catalog back. It wasn't like he did it for nothing. Like, you know, in order for me to resign, we had to do something big. And I ended up, excuse me, now I own my whole catalog. And, you know, so it all worked out for the best.

And, you know, now I'm, you know, giving a label a small commission to kind of, they get a piece now. Now they get a small piece. And I got 90%. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? Now you get a little. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody's staring at the back of your head.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody staring at the back of my head, yeah. There's a lot of head too. Big old head. Oh, my God. Samhanna head, man. Hello, this was wonderful. Thank you.

I really, it's just a joy, and I knew it would be, and so thank you so much for your time. Appreciate you, man. Much love. Yeah. No doubt. That was L.L. Cool J. Thrilled to have gotten that interview. Pursued it for a long time.

I was so happy to find that came together. You know, he's an incredibly busy guy, and to get him alone in the bunker for an extended period of time to have a one-on-one conversation was a delight. He continues to be influential in so many ways, and obviously has been able to convert. in a way that, like I said, not a lot of people have been able to do to continually convert. And by convert, I mean, you have a little bit of success on some level. It doesn't matter if you're an actor or rapper, whatever. You're not having to be an artist, any field. And then to continually try to leverage.

And leveraging isn't just about exploiting opportunities. I think leveraging is about being ready to exploit opportunities and to make new opportunities where they seem to present themselves. And I think you can see a lot of people that have early success and they cannot convert. but here's the guy who's continually converting, continually building, continually growing. And I think that's exciting, exciting to watch. I think it's also exciting to emulate, should one wish to do so. Hopefully you enjoyed that conversation.

I know I did. Ladies and gentlemen, you are my army. You keep me going. You make this thankless job. Well, it's not thankless. I love making this podcast, but it is an incredible amount of work that I have to slide into the bits and pieces of free time I have in my life. So rewarding and so enjoyable. and it is for you that I make this show.

So thank you for your ongoing support. Thank you for the robust kindness and enthusiasm with which you support this show with your letters, your emails, when you show up at fan events, when you tweet, when you Facebook, when you let other people know you love the show. It makes a difference, and I see it, even though I can't always respond personally, but I'm responding right now and telling you

that it is because of you, is because of the growing army that I continue to make this show. enjoy the hiatus, enjoy yourself, do things that make yourself happy. I don't mean be selfish, but I do mean realize that life is finite, and you must pursue happiness at every turn, and be relentless in your pursuit of fulfillment and enjoyment. Because, you know, what else is there, honestly, right? Just joy. All else is academic. You are my army. You are a legion. I will talk to you when Girl on Guy resumes on September 22nd. Until then, go kick some ass.

Late. Girl on Guy is a production of Hot Machine, blowing shit up since 2009.