Girl on Guy with Aisha Tyler - girl on guy 198: grant gustin

Episode Date: October 6, 2015

join grant gustin of the flash and aisha as they discuss small towns, human resilience, reviving lost arts, blind devotion to craft, the power of self-isolation, fighting a foregone conclusion, and becoming the fastest man alive. plus grant is a renaissance man. don't make him tap that ass. girl on guy needs to limber up.

This episode of Girl on Guy is brought to you by Audible. Go to Audiblepodcast.com slash Girl on Guy for your free audiobook download. That's audiblepodcast.com slash Girl on Guy. This is Girl on Guy. Hey, everybody, welcome to Girl on Guy 10098. Welcome to the show. We are, we're not knee-deep. Let's just say we're ankle-deep, calf-deep maybe, in season five of Girl-on-Gye.

and so incredibly happy to be here with you from the brand new Girl and Guy Bunker, which I don't know. Is it more Acoey than the previous bunker? That's my sense, because I'm hearing it through my earballs. But maybe you're hearing something different. Let me know about how the new bunker sounds to you. I love hearing from you in every way. And lots of people have been writing in lately,

and it's been great to hear from everybody. Brand new members of the Army, lots of brand new members of the Army. Welcome to the Girl on Guy Army. So happy to have you. is Grill on Guy 198. And so much is going on right now. If you haven't already watched it, I made my debut on Criminal Minds, season 11 of Criminal Minds last Wednesday, September 30th.

And I imagine you could probably catch up on that episode online, but it's never too late to start. It's an episodic show. So even if you're jumping in one episode late, you're still going to be able to follow the show. Jump right in with both feet. Right now, I am contracted for six episodes. That may extend.

Who knows? But you can jump right in. It airs on Wednesday nights at 9 p.m. on whatever your local CBS situation is. So check it out. I'm really enjoying myself. It's great to be back doing drama. I love acting and I'm super, super happy to be playing a smart, thoughtful, interesting, complex character and it gets better and better. For those of you who felt like you just got a little taste in that first episode on the 30th, don't you worry. You are pretty little heads. There is more Dr. Tara Lewis coming at you in future. episodes. So stay tuned for that. I'm in the middle of season six of the talk every day on CBS and also

working on season 7 of Archer, which debuts in January, and we will be shooting another season of who's on is it anyway, season four of who's on is it anyway, starting in January and probably start airing in the spring. So lots going on. Four series I'm on right now. I'm a grubby fucking bastard or I'm a workaholic or both. The latter is much more salient than the former, and I am trying very hard to find little holes, little cracks in the pavement in which to rest and doing my best not to get walking pneumonia. So thank you for your patience when the show is late. Thank you for your support online. You guys are amazing. Your tweets and letters always lift me up. I don't want to sound like a greeting card or some kind of awful inspirational poster with a kitten hanging from a fence,

but it does uplift me when you guys write and tweet and Facebook and with supportive words. So just know that you're reaching me, even if I'm not always able to respond, you are reaching me, and it makes a difference because I am one woman band here, and I am clapping those knee symbols as fast as I can, and my organ grinder monkey apparently is in Mexico doing coke off a horse ass, so I'm all alone out here. But I don't feel alone because of you guys, so thank you very much for everything you do to keep me motoring forward. Before we get the business out of the way, what I did wanted to do, apropos of what I was just saying, was thank the people that donate to the show. Some of you have started donating on an ongoing basis, and it doesn't matter if it's a quarter or a dollar or $5.

You guys make a huge difference just because I know you are supporting the show on an ongoing basis. You know, I make the show out of the love of my heart. It's not a big moneymaker. It's something I do because I'm passionate about it. And those of you who are passionate about it enough to do these recurring donations, I just wanted to shout out you. I'm not going to be shouting everybody because I don't have a comprehensive list here, but maybe every week I'll try to say a few people. This week I'm going to shout out just a few people who have been donated to the show over this past year.

Nelly Montalvo, Christopher Rini, Angela Grimes, who has been a longtime supporter of the show, Rites and often, is a really vocal and passionate fan, Ancela Lewis, all of you who have been donating. Oh, and Vincent Waller, thank you so much to all of you for your recurring donations to the show. You are rad. because I didn't ask you for those donations. You made them of your own free will. And I'm very, very grateful.

Every single penny makes a difference. As I make this show, pretty much out of my own pocket. We don't have a thousand advertisers for the show. And your gestures are more than gestures. They are received in the most grateful and clear-eyed way. I'm very, very grateful for you guys. So I just wanted to shout you out. Thanks for being members in the Army.

Thanks for being in the Vanguard. You guys are awesome. Also, all of those of you who have gotten a premium subscription know that that also contributes to making the show every week. And you are also so, so very, very valued. So thank you very much. In future shows, I'll try to shout out some other donors. If I can dig their names out of the massive archive of emails that I have on my computer.

My computer literally is like the digital metaphor, the digital equivalent of like a chamber pot. It's just full of human refuse and an insane amount of spam. But I do try to be the organized possible. So if I can find some other donor names, I will shout you guys out because you're rad. Okay, let's get the business out of the way quickly before we get into this show. This show is brought to you in part by Audible. And if you go to Audiblepodcast.com slash Girl on Guy, you can get your free audiobook download. Make sure that you go to audiblepodcast.com slash girl on guy, not audible.com.

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If you want to listen to somebody, read a hilarious book. He is a funny person. His book is hilarious. He read the book with no shadowy house. help. And then he reads it. And his voice and his accent, and the book is called, yes, my accent is real, is a delight. I just have probably heard nobody funnier and more delightful to listen to than Mr. Kronnell Neyer. So why don't you go check on his book? Yes, my accent is real. That is on Audible. And you can just go to audible podcast.com slash girl and guy and get that free audiobook download. My good friend

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tell you right now. Now let me just say for the record, you guys know I'm really busy. I travel all the time. I am constantly upside down. I am chasing sleep and chasing rest and chasing inner peace like a madwoman. And I actually don't ever, I know people think, oh, people work in Hollywood in the entertainment business. They're always like on boats and in Ibitha and kicking it with Jay-Z and shopping. I don't shop. I hate shopping. I've always hated shopping. I hate it more now that I have to do it for my job. It's burdensome, and I fucking hate everybody in the store, and I hate the people that work there that make me feel like I'm too poor to shop there. I know you can't shop there, lady. Why are you giving me all this fucking attitude? I hate shopping. It's gotten worse as I've

gotten older. Maybe I'm getting old, but mainly I think that the fact that I'm obligated to shop for my job makes it just the most dolorous and punishing thing ever, and I pretty much just want to live in sweatpants and shitty flipflops for the rest of my life. Well, I hate shopping. I imagine you hate it too, but here's the problem. You have a job and you have a life and you want to get laid, so you want to look good. Well, Trunk Club Oxford has your solution. You never have to go to a mall ever again. I shop online quite a bit. It is also burdensome and tiresome, but it's easier than going to the mall, but this is how Trunk Club Oxford solves all your problems. They take the hassle out of shopping by shipping you a trunk of clothes that fit perfectly make you look awesome with all the most updated styles and fabrics and looks for you in this beautiful trunk that shows about your house. And you can get a great deal by going to Trunkclub.com slash Girl on Guy. where you answer some simple questions about your style, your preferences, your size, and you get an expert stylist that's going to put this trunk together for you. They then curate clothes from the best premium brands. You approve of what you like, and then just like that, a beautiful trunk arrives on your doorstep,

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It's not like you're going to get a bag of clothes every month that you've got to fucking paw through. You only pay for the clothes that you keep from your trunk. There are no hidden charges, just killer clothes that make you look great. And right now, Trunk Club Oxford's entire styling service is absolutely free. even the shipping, and you only pay for the clothes that you keep, which to me seems utterly fair. So to take advantage of this killer offer, go to truncleb.com slash girl on guy. That's trunk club.com slash girl on guy for a trunk filled with clothes that you will love wearing. It's the fall. It's time for your, but you're not going back to school. You're a grown-up,

but you still want back-to-school clothes. Now is the time. So check it out. Trunkclub.com slash girl on guy. Check that out. I wish I was a dude. That sounds awful. All right, this was a long open, but it was worth it because this episode of Girl and Guy is with Grant Guston, otherwise known as The Flash. Now, if you're not already watching The Flash, once again I say, I can do nothing for you, but this guy is as delightful as he seems on that show. You know, sometimes you suspect, I don't know, is this an act? Is this guy just adorable and delightful on the show and then like a dolorous kind of sponge in real life? no, lovely and forthcoming and sweet and engaging and absolutely in every way a star. He was so sweet to talk with. We actually did this interview a few months ago, and I held it for the Flash premiere,

which is this week, actually, tomorrow night, October 7th on CW. So now is your opportunity. The show's only one season old. Plenty of time to jump in. He is just as charismatic and delightful as you would ever want this guy to be, and it was so much fun talking with him. Ladies and gentlemen, this is growing guy, 198 with Grant, Gustin, otherwise known as

The Flash, coming at you straight out of the brand new girl on Guy Bunker and right into your face. That's good, is that good? Yep, cool. Grant Guston, welcome to my show. Hello, thank you. This is exciting.

Everybody, this is Grant's first podcast. Yes, never heard a podcast, never done a podcast. That's really exciting to me. I'm going to be your first. I hope it's a good experience. I don't want to be like the last person who dated before you, you know, if you were turned into a lesbian,

or turns like a person who hates podcasts. whatever that is. So because it's your first podcast and you've never heard of Benominum, we're going to do it the old-fashioned way. Sometimes the show jumps around a level. We're going to start at the beginning with you and just find out like everything. So where were you born? Norfolk, Virginia.

Oh, okay. The DePaul Hospital. Nice. Very specific. Where's Norfolk? Is it closer to like a bigger city that people would know? It's on the coast. It's like Virginia Beach, Norfolk is kind of all in one area right on the coastline,

big Navy Town, Norfolk. Oh, okay. And it's like near Richmond, which is the capital. Yeah. Navy town. A beach town or like a port town? Both. Yeah. Norfolk, I think, I always forget if it's the world or the country, but it's like one of the biggest Navy bases. I think in the world, I'm the biggest. And then Virginia Beach is just, you know, beach vacation. Naked teenagers. Yeah. Yeah. Boardwalks. Right. When you were growing, I always feel like people that I know that have grown up at Beach towns and I don't know that many, I feel like that's a really specific kind of

lifestyle. There's really a sense that your life is different. Living by the beach is a different experience. Yeah, well, I never fully got that. I've always wanted it out here in L.A., but I've still never had it out here yet. But, because, you know, Norfolk is by the beach, but it's, I think, like, I lived 15, 20 minutes from the bay growing up, and then, like, the ocean front, it was like a half hour trip for me. And I had friends out there that I spent all my time in Virginia Beach, but I didn't have that, like, beach life as a kid necessarily. It was just kind of like there for if I wanted to go. Yeah, which we spent our summers there and weekends there.

In high school especially, I was there every weekend. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. It's a military town. Was your family involved with the military? No, no. I mean, my dad was a lawyer when I was growing up, and my mom was a nurse, so we just happened to be there.

Just a relatively common. Was there something that brought them there? Was that where they grew up? I grew up in the house that my dad grew up in. He bought it from his dad, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How interesting. How integrated were, you know, because like, I don't know, I think even more nowadays than maybe like 50 years ago, people move really far away from their parents. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's pretty unusual for somebody to be living, like, in the family home. Where are your grandparents always around? My, yeah, I was always really close to my grandpa growing up. My grandma, my dad's mom died before I was born. Okay. But my grandpa remarried. And I was very close to, she was, Aileen was her name. And I was very close to her. And yeah, they were around all the time.

Yeah, I mean, my dad loved that house. We all loved that house. It was like the family house for years and years. And I think we had, we sold it when I was like 13. Oh, really? Broke our hearts, yeah. Well, to move out of Norfolk? Well, yeah.

Well, no, we all stayed in Norfolk. When I was 13, my parents got divorced. Okay, yeah. And we kind of like everyone went our separate and we lost the house. And yeah, it broke our hearts. God. So my parents are divorced divorced when I was 10. And I always, this is interesting because I feel like it really,

kids are pretty resilient. everybody's really resilient. But I also think people resolve and recover from that trauma differently. And I guess the added trauma of like losing this thing that had been a part of your family since before you were born must have compounded it quite a bit. Yeah, it was a lot of things.

It was like we had all been in... God, we're getting so deep. So early, I know we're in it. We were all in private school up until my parents got divorced so like school changed, house changed. Dad was gone down the street. Right, but yeah.

You know, I mean, it was just all different suddenly. But I'm looking back very lucky because they've remained as close as possible. And they were both very present parents. And it was actually kind of the turning point for me because because I left private school and because I had been like tap dancing a little up until this point, I had been playing soccer and baseball, but I'd also started tap dancing because I loved Gene Kelly. and seeing the rain. And I started to love Saviant Glover,

and it was just kind of my thing as a kid. And because I wasn't in private school anymore, I was eligible to go to the performing arts school that was just for public schools. And so I think if, I mean, if my parents had stayed together, I would have had a very, very different life. I might not have even gone into the arts.

Wow. That's incredible. Yeah. And it's so interesting because, like I said, I think kids are really resilient, And I think we do a lot of like lamenting culturally about divorce. And I think some of it's fair. Maybe not realistic, but fair.

But I just remember like a lot of things are like, oh, people are staying together for the kids and this for the kids. But like, kids, we bounce. You know, you bounce. And, you know, in your particular case, you kind of bounced in what ended up being a pretty great direction for you. At that time when you went with your mom? Yeah, we all stayed living with my mom.

Yeah. And then your dad went, but he was still around. He was still living. Yeah. Yeah. My parents, my dad took me, my mom took my sister, which was like a very different kind of experience. I'm sure. Was that, did you notice? Because at 13, you're pretty self-aware. Yeah. Did you notice, was it more burdensome for your mom to be by herself with all the kids? My mom is definitely, like, without a doubt. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people say this, but like the strongest person I know. And like, it's crazy looking back how kind of positive she was about it all. I mean, I'm sure they're like, I remember.

my parents fighting and I remember them you know the whole thing I mean I led up to it and I remember the sadness for sure but like my mom was always working and like kind of just putting a smile on her face for the most part and was never a stage mom but was always supportive and was always

there trying to help make it happen whatever we wanted to do for all of us and I mean yeah I don't recall anything other than her just being like really strong to be yeah that's incredible yeah there's also something interesting and I don't know you were saying your memory of parents fighting but I remember like when my parents got a divorce I remember them fighting getting back together breaking up getting me I was like I felt I was like yeah I mean they they tried like I remember being like okay they gave it a go like they didn't you know they didn't have fast that it wasn't like one day I came home and the carpet was ripped out for it was for me it was more like I just they grew up hearing them fight and it was just kind of like I was that's what families did yeah and they never like broke up got back together broke up got back together it was just kind of like the

One day it was like, oh, okay. Like, and at that time, it was, like, sad for sure, but it wasn't even like I took a moment. I can't speak for my siblings, but I didn't even really take a moment, I don't think, to really understand it. I just kind of kept moving. Right, right. How many siblings do you have? I have an older brother and a younger sister.

I'm close with both. You're close. That's awesome. So this is interesting. I always like hearing about people's kind of, like, artistic origin story because you started how old were you when you started dancing? I was eight. I started tapping and then like 10 when I started doing community theater.

And was it specifically just because you loved these movies and you thought I want to do that? Well, I loved the movies and then my mom kind of like not really made me because she never really made me do anything but she kind of made me like tap dance. It was this all boys group and she knew I would love it. And we toured around doing strictly Elvis songs wearing pleather jackets and jeans and tap shoes and with her hair slicked back. I did that for like two years and it was just like And you toured?

Around Norfolk. Right. Around Hampton Roads like Greater Hampton Roads. Right, right. So around like a few cities. But yeah, it was fun. That is a really specific skill set and I don't feel like a lot of people learn tap now. No, no, it's definitely a dying art form which is sad.

And I know Jesse Martin. Yeah. Yeah. And we like, I mean, it's like we constantly tap and talk. Really? Oh my God. Yeah. He teaches me during the pilot.

He taught me a. step that I worked on for a full day. Had never done it before. Had no idea how to do it. Came back to show it to him. I was like, dude, look. And then from then on out, it was just like every day. We like teach each other tap steps.

That's so rad. Do you bring your tap shoes to work? No. I had, like, put in a coat. I own tattoos in like years to be honest. Since college when I had like, when I was still taking tap. Yeah. No tap shoes.

Just tapping my sneaks. Right. And then say, I mean, and you were mentioning Savian Glover, it was like all of a sudden there was this big explosion. And there's a couple of other young guys doing it now that are like pretty acrobatic. I can't remember their names. There's two guys that are pretty great. I mean, I have friends too. I mean, one of my friends, Nick Young is a tap dancer who did like So You Think and like

So You Think has helped to kind of show people how cool tap can be. Right, for sure. Right. So you tap all through kind of great school, middle school and then you end up going to this school of the arts. And is it specifically just for dance? No, it's, it was, it's called the governor school for the arts and it's in Norfolk. And it's, yeah, like I said, for all public schools. And you go to normal school for the first part of your day I went to Granby High School and like it's I don't know how many

high schools it's got to be at least like 15 high schools maybe even more maybe less I could be an idiot but it's you go to your school from like 7 a.m. until lunch time right you have lunch and then you get on a bus and you go to the governor school and some buses like stop and pick up kids from different schools

before they take you and then from there's like a first shift and a second shift and because of I was in Norfolk I was first shift and from 1 p.m. till 4 we took, I was in the musical theater program, so we took anything from like music theory to tab dance, jazz dance, ballet, an acting class, some music theater history.

And then if you're in the show, you rehearse from 5 p.m. until... That show. Whenever. They do a show every... You audition. Every department does shows. There's musical theater department,

a theater department, visual arts, vocal, instrumental, dance. I think that's it. And yeah, and everyone kind of does, like, the art, kids, the visual arts kids do exhibits and the musical theater. I mean, I did. God, what we do. My first show was Aida. Oh, wow. Ambitious. Yeah. We had like the perfect girl that you had Adrian Warren, who's big in New York. She's killing in. She, yeah, you know, we did Aida. We did. God, what else did

we do? We did. I was Seymour and Little Shop of Horrors in a Black Rock production. I mean, we, you know, we did musical theater. Yeah. It's fun. Did you have a sense then? I mean, Was that catalytic for you? Were you like, this is what I want to do with my life? Yeah, I mean, like I said earlier, like, I kind of like just a little bit. I've realized in the past year when people have asked me that question that, like, I never really fully thought I, I'm going to be an actor. I think until this was almost really flash was happening, I was like, okay, I'm acting.

Right, right, right, exactly. Because it was just kind of like did what I wanted to do and I kept moving and it was tap became musical theater and musical theater became being on a TV show somehow. And I never expected that. I thought I'd go to New York and kind of do that. I've just kind of been riding the wave. How much, how dominant was the arts in your life as a high schooler? You know, for some kids that kind of live and breathe it.

Yeah, it was everything. It was everything. I mean, because of governor's school, it was my school. I mean, I don't want to say I didn't care about my regular academics, but I didn't really at the end of the day. And I guess, like, I say I didn't know I was going to be an actor, but I also knew that, like, I was going to, I thought I was going to, like, dance and just, like, do theater.

Like, I wasn't worried about being good in math or, like, knowing anything about science, sadly, just because I, like, I don't know. I thought school was kind of silly a lot of the time, and I didn't feel like I wasn't, I didn't have fun doing it, and I always liked doing what I wanted to do. And sitting in classrooms, learning things I didn't want to learn was just kind of never it. And I knew I wanted to do shows and kind of I just kept doing that.

Was that a point of conflict ever, like at home? Yes and no. Like my, I wanted my grades to be better. Like my mom wanted my grades to be better. Like she wanted me to go to college. She wanted me to be able to get into college. And at the end of the day, like, I think junior year of high school, I kind of was just like, okay, like I want to, I think by,

by sophomore year, freshman year of high school, I already knew I wanted to major in musical theater in college, because that was kind of the path I saw people I looked up to what they were doing. And so I was like, okay, I do want to go to college for this. So I got, my grades were good enough to get into college. Right, right. Just so that you could do that specific thing. Yeah, but then like an athlete, I also knew that like, I was like, I'm an audition and that's all that's going to matter for a program at the end of the day. And it, and I was right. And I got, I got like a tiny little scholarship to help me go to Elon University in North Carolina for musical theater. And my grades weren't that good in high school.

It didn't matter. Right, right. I was really, really passionate about theater and just kind of, and I think that was a very apparent to the people in the program. Right. It just didn't matter that my grades were good. They're like, in the areas that are critical, they feel like you're doing all right. Was that a bit, so Elon University is in? It's in Elon County right outside of like Burlington, like 45 minutes from the Raleigh-Durham area.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Was that a big adjustment for you culturally or was it pretty similar to where you grew up? No, it was a pretty big difference. I mean, Norfolk and where I grew up, it's a big city. It's the Navy Town and there's a lot. Like as I grew up especially, it got bigger and bigger. And I mean, I go back now and I'm like, I don't know what to do when I'm here.

But like, yeah, going to Elon, it was kind of like a small private campus and beautiful campus. I think it actually wins like most beautiful campus almost every year. Oh, wow. It's gorgeous, yeah. But it was, yeah, it was like, there wasn't much to do, but I think that's when it kind of not set in for me, but like I really kind of realized that I was a hermit anyway. Right. And I was happiest when I was working really hard on something and then going back home and

resting and getting ready for the next day. So I didn't really, that's when I realized I didn't care about going out and doing things. Right. Really being that social at all. Because I just was happiest when I was working. on something that I cared about. Right. And was it like that for you there?

And that's what it was like. Yeah, it was just. Just a work focused, not particularly social. Yeah, yeah. And ever since then, I've, that's, you know, how I, I'm aware that that's who I am and I'm happy being that way. I like kind of, I mean, I busted my ass my freshman year. And that's when I realized that I think I was, that's when I realized I was, that's when I

realized I was an actor and that, like, I could dance and I could sing. And I, it would be nice in the future to have. have that in my pocket. And I worked really hard on those things at Elon because I didn't really know yet, oh, I'm going to do film and TV. But like, that's when I was like, oh, I'm an actor and I do these other things too. Right. I'm going to ask you a question. And you may, I know the answer or you may think it's a ridiculous question, but sometimes like, so I talk about this a lot on the show about introversion and extroversion. And not about like people who are outgoing or not. That's not really the same thing as introversion, which is people who are happiest in solitude. Like people,

people get their batteries recharged by solitude versus extroverts who get their battery charged by interaction. When you think about that time when you figured out the way you were most happy is when you were being creative and potentially like not that. Did you have a sense that maybe you were an actual introvert or have you had that sense since? I didn't realize that I was an introvert until 2015. That's now. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I had always thought I was like, oh, an extrovert, like you just said, an extrovert to someone who's outgoing. And I wasn't afraid of being on stage. Right. And I loved being on stage. And I like, yeah, I mean, I really kind of just, that was where I was the most comfortable. So I kind of was just like, oh, yeah, I'm,

I'm outgoing. I'm an extrovert. And I was really good at being social as a kid. And I was kind of a leader a little bit. And I was weird for sure. By the time I got to high school, at my normal school, I wasn't like a popular kid by the means. But like, I definitely always, like, did my own thing and, like, wasn't really, like, worried about other people. But I, yeah, I mean, I realized, I think being in LA, being in this business, being surrounded by people constantly, and that, like, I needed to go home and be by myself to recharge. And I'm an introverted extrovert. It's kind of how I think of myself for sure. And it's a very different way of looking at the world because, like you just said, like being outgoing and being extroverted are not the same things. You know, you can push yourself through

like a period of needing to be outgoing, you know, but that, you know, you'll be drained at the end of it. No, I mean, it's like that when we do upfronts or when we do Comic-Con, I mean, it's like, I dread those things with all of my might until I'm there. And then I have the best time all day long. And then I'm dead at the end of the day. But I'll be like that for the rest of my life probably. I think, I think of, I guess, subconsciously all the worst possible outcomes of social environments. Yeah. And then like now it's a part of the job, too.

It's not just being social. It's like, oh, no, I have to be good at being social. And you can't just be up there and be taciturn and give one word answers. Yeah, it's like politics. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, that's exhausting for me for sure. And I dread it. But then I have so much fun every time we do stuff like that.

But I'll probably be like that forever. Right. But it's also, I think, freeing to know, to start to really figure out who you are and how you operate. I'm very self-aware. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You said you were a weird kid. What was weird about you? I just kind of, um, definitely like, went to the beat of my own drama a little bit. I mean, I started like without, I didn't even remember this until this past year. My mom for, I forget, my birthday or Christmas, my birthday's January 14th, so I always forget what gifts or what. But she gave me this like book that was like pictures of growing up basically. But it was like kind of my life growing up. And I had forgotten that at a really, really early age, I was dressing up as all different kinds of characters.

and like kind of dis, I was just, I was just kind of doing my own thing in a really weird early age. I mean, I was making movies with action figures and like frame by frame kind of things. And I've lost interest in sports pretty young. But it was something I still, I loved sports and my mom thought it was so strange. I didn't want to do it anymore. And I was just kind of doing things that were different than other kids always. And I mean, I was, yeah, just strange. thing. I was in, I was in skates, I think, for every single day of, like, from six to, like, 10.

I, like, lived in inline skates. And that was my thing for that period of time. But I was just strange. That's awesome, no. I mean, I was pretty socially isolated. And, like, it's interesting because, like, social isolation can be something that's comforting while it's happening. But you're super aware of the fact on some level that it's unusual. You know what I mean? And you're made aware of it by other kids or by your parents going on it you go out more whatever it is you know you're made aware of it so it's weird because there's a part of it that's like this is who i am and big alone is fine and then there's another part of you that's like oh maybe i should try to be different yeah and i think like as i got older i i became more aware of the fact that i was a little bit different than other people because i mean as a i mean it never one that's

such a stupid thing to say because everybody's unique and different or whatever but like as a kid too i wasn't like antisocial. I wasn't consciously wanting to be alone. I would have an idea and I would do it. And if other kids in the neighborhood, which there were plenty actually of different ages, but if other kids wanted to do what I was doing, then a big group formed. And it was as I got older that I was like, I want to do my own thing. Like, leave me alone. I wasn't like that as a kid, though. But yeah, I mean, I definitely got more isolated as you got older. Yeah. And there's another thing. You start to get more agency over your own life so you can choose really how you want to spend your time.

Yeah. You're at Elon University and you're majoring in theater and you're kind of you're just focused on that. You said you just started to pair away like things that weren't work related. Did you feel connected to the others? I guess the whole school was a performing arts school. No. No?

There was a program. Oh, okay. It was a big program too. It had like 80 some people. Like every class was, which is a small program for other programs. For a theater program, that's a lot bigger than other schools. And I think my class had like, almost 30 kids or something, like 25 kids or something. And I was really, I mean, we were family.

I mean, I wasn't like, I didn't isolate myself in that sense, but like if it didn't concern theater and things around me in a class I was doing or a show I was in, like, I didn't really care. But like the same as when I was a kid, I guess. Like if you were wanting to do what I was doing, then like, I was more. more than happy to work with you or for you to be around me. But if you weren't interested in what I was doing, then I was kind of like, well, I don't know time through. And I guess I'm like that now, too. I mean, during Flash, it's like my cast is who I see

and who I spend my time with. And that's pretty much it. Well, you, it's interesting now because retrospectively, you probably were preparing yourself to be in a series because it's almost impossible to do anything else when you're on a series, especially if you're, like, number one or number two. It's not like you can have a really robust, like, social life away from work. There's no time. Yeah. I'm definitely like the perfect type of person to be doing a TV job for

sure. Right. Right. I thought I'd go crazy, but it's like, again, this year is when I kind of realized. I was like, oh, no, no, I'm good working on a schedule like this. So I'm happiest for sure. Right. It's hard, but I'm good. You, when you graduated from Elon, did you know, okay, and now I'm going to go to New York? Well, I didn't graduate. I, my sophomore year, I, uh, my spring, I went in audition for the touring production of West Side Story. because I'd always loved it. That was another movie as a kid that I loved. And I had, as a musical theater major,

I had, you know, grown to love it even more and had to study it for musical theater history and all different, multiple classes. And it had been something I had loved and something that I'd always, like, known that I'd be a good type of guy, like a kid that can dance, but I'm not like a ballerina, but, you know, I could hang. And it's an acting show about gang members that dance.

So it had been something. I'd always wanted to do. And I was always a little bit, I think, scared to go outside of the box, too, and like being nervous for things like Comic-Con and everything. But once I do it, I'm fine. And I'm actually good at things like that, but I'm always scared of it. And I think people around me have always known that about me more than I had known that about myself. And when that audition came up, a few of my friends basically were like, you won't, you won't go. Right. Oh. And I only went because they had. said that. And I was like, it was the moment that I wanted to prove them wrong and kind of like proved myself wrong thinking I wasn't capable of doing something like that. And yeah, I mean,

that was crazy. I just kind of went on a whim and I had a callback like the next week. And it was all during spring break. So it worked out perfectly. And then the final callback was like not for a few months later and I had another break again. And then I went. I thought it went great. I met Arthur Lawrence who wrote West Side Story. It was like, we were. the last cast that he assembled before he passed away. Wow. Production of West Side he worked on. And he was there.

I got to meet him. He told me I was really talented, which was crazy. He shook my hand. And then it was gone back to school for finals. And then I went to Charlotte to do Charlotte, North Carolina, to do Summerstock Theater. And when I was in Charlotte, I found out I got West Side, didn't go back to school, went to New York to start rehearsing, and went on the road for a year. Was that, well, I mean, I'm assuming that was a really easy decision for you.

you to make. Yeah, it was. I mean, I knew when I went to the audition that, I mean, it was, my mom had always said that, like, you'll finish school. And I, and I thought I'd finish school for sure. But then there was no fight at all. When that came up and she, and I went to the audition, from the beginning, it was if I got it, I would leave and I would do it. And with, I thinking, I would probably go back to Elon and finish, hopefully. But then, you know, you're out and you're doing West Side Story every night, singing songs. Johnheim dancing Jerome Robbins and you realize that you're doing what you want to be doing and you don't necessarily need a degree and then you get those voices in your ear where you're like

that tell you that exactly that you don't to be an actor you don't need a degree so it just I kind of ultimately decided if I would get a degree someday it wouldn't be in theater and right not at this point where because you're living you're living at yeah just kind of doing it and then and then it didn't matter anyway because when I was my manager Robert Stein that represents me now, saw me at the Pantages in West Side Story and reached out here in L.A. Yeah, and asked to start kind of working together, I guess, and I met with him and I liked him on a personal level, and he's been my manager ever since, and it's just kind of started submitting me for things from the road, and I got Glee right before my contract on West Side expired. And they let

me out 12 days early so I could go shoot an episode of Glee, which became like, I think I I did nine or seven or something when it was all said and done. And so I moved to L.A. and didn't go back to you on. Wow. That's exciting. Yeah. And so you're on this touring production. What was that like for you because you're pretty young?

Were the rest of the cast your age? No. There was a girl in the show that was 17 when we started rehearsals and she turned 18 during the tour. But other than that, I mean, I was, I turned 21 on the tour and I was by far the youngest guy. All the guys were like four to like seven years older than me or even more. And some of the girls were around my age, but I was by far the youngest guy. And I was playing Baby John, so it was like, it was perfect.

And yeah, I mean, it was like the, I got definitely at least two years of musical theater training in my 12 months of touring West Side Story. So, I mean, it furthered my theater education and training more than anything else I'd ever done because it was, you know, real world and I was doing it. I was going to say, was there something about the practical experience of being in a touring company that was strikingly or dramatically different from what your expectations were when you were studying? No, no. Because it had always been like that had always been like the next step to me. And I had always been, it was doing a tour. It's funny. It had always been, it's funny looking back because I don't even want to really set foot on a cruise ship even as a guest now.

And it had always been like a tour or a cruise ship was exactly what I wanted to do right out of college. And yeah, a tour happened in the middle of college, so I did it. And it was, yeah, pretty much everything I expected it to be. And it was, I guess, another time in my life that everyone went out after every single show. And I went back to the hotel we were staying in and watched Netflix. Right, right. And it was just kind of like another phase of my life that kind of confirmed that this is how I operate. Interesting.

It's interesting because also that would be a time where I think almost anybody, especially somebody just turning 21 would be raging like an animal. Yeah, no, and that's why it's weird. It's like I was 20, 21 and yeah, I, no, that's how I was. I mean, I had the only time I had a wild night was my 21st birthday on tour. It was the only time that I was like, all right, cool. Yeah, I'm not going to be like that guy. Right.

So I went and had a fun night, but other than that, like, I mean, I went out a few times, but I chilled. So you do the tour, and then you come here, you meet your manager, and you move to L.A. right away and you do that episode of Glee and what is the so I can actually frame it because I'm not quite sure what's the interim between that

and the flash like how long were you here? Glee my first it had to have been 2011 so it was I think it was August

of 2011 I want to say when I shot my first Glee episode and then it wasn't until 2000, it was like two years later I guess a little almost two and a half years later but I mean I mean that's quick obviously it was yeah I mean I did Glee while I was doing Glee I played twins on an episode of CSI Miami which was fun and then yeah I did a lifetime movie and an independent film and then ended up doing seven episodes of Glee during all of that and then like nothing happened for almost a year

Oh gosh. Before I booked Arrow. And right before, like three months before I booked Arrow, I broke my arm on, like fell off my bike. Oh gosh. And like it was, yeah, my left arm. I fell off my bicycle and like it like popped out of socket. And then my bone came through my skin. Oh, Jesus.

Lift my nerves. Oh my God. On Chandler Boulevard in the Valley, just like ankle make it bleeding out. Like it was really bad. And it was a really, I was in a really mentally dark, depressed. pressed time at this point. Really? And it was like I had just finished reading some book. My mom had given me that was like a self-help kind of inspirational book. And I had just, I was in it, it had flipped, it kind of flipped a switch in my brain. And I was like, I'm, I'm going to be okay. I'm

going to do this thing. I'm going to be positive. I'm turning a corner right now. I got on my bike. I went to the gym, fell off my bike, broke my arm. And the first thought I had, the first thought I had was this happened for a reason. Really? Yeah. And I was like, and it felt like, a positive thing to me. And I was in the hospital for two days. My arm was in a sling for like three, four weeks. They told me I would never straighten it fully ever again. Well, compound break on your elbow is brutal. I mean, it was serious. They're like, you'll never straighten again. You'll never, you can't work out for like a year. And I mean, I lost so much way. I mean, I'm a skinny guy, obviously. And I looked like scary. But then like three months after it happened,

I was just getting out of the sling and moving again. It was when I booked Arrow to play Barry Allen on Arrow. again I'll ask you and then you can say whether you want to but was there something in your life that had triggered this part like where you said you were feeling really depressed was there something that happened um no I think I was just kind of I had I had always been doing something I had always been doing a show I had always been working on something I'd always been around people that were passionate about similar things and all of a sudden I wasn't working and I was in L.A and I was just kind of like nice weather all the time and everything and right right um kind of hanging out and have enough friends. I could do things if I wanted to do them, but I just wasn't, I don't know, inspired, and I wasn't feeling passionate, and I had always felt passionate and like I was passionate person,

and I always felt like somebody that had been aware of signs and, like, things meant something, things always meant something. And I just wasn't that person anymore. And I just felt really, I don't know, yeah, uninspired. I felt like you weren't seeing signs or like maybe stop believing. I wasn't like looking for them. Yeah.

And I just didn't want to be in L.A. anymore. I didn't want to be trying to do the business anymore. I thought it was all kind of bullshit that it was people. Yeah, I thought most people I had met were doing it for the wrong reasons. And that like I hated everything about it. And like I just kind of, but it's, you know, you just get cynical when you're not doing anything that you want to, that you're not passionate about. If you're a passionate person and I had always been doing something like that. And then when Arrow happened, I mean, it was like.

I had always been a superhero fan. Playing a superhero was something I could have never dreamed of doing. I'm being like a skinny theater kid from Virginia. It was not something that I thought I'd do. And, like, I mean, it was like beyond a dream come true when that happened. And the team on that show is team on Arrow and Flash is just guys that are real comic book nerds. And they love doing it. They're really passionate.

I mean, you've met them. Yeah, they're incredible. Yeah, they love doing it. and it's just it's a passion project for everybody involved so it just kind of immediately made me feel like myself again you made me think of something

we were talking about the concept of introversion and extroversion I think of something related which is obviously it's like a little platitudinal anatomy as a negative way to be like when you're working on something your love then you're going to feel engaged but

I do think there's like this like a larger interesting thing which is for some people to feel connected to their lives, they have to feel connected to their work, like, period. And whereas some of you were like, well, you know, I don't really live my job, but I come home every night and have a beer and watch TV, and that's plenty.

And I'm not adding a qualification or judgment on that. You know what I mean? I wish I was somebody. I really do. Yeah. You know. I get it from my mom. Like I said,

she was always working, and she's still that way. She's, I think, got like four different jobs right now that she's doing. And it's, and she's happy that way. She feels like she is providing. I mean, she's like, she's a caretaker in all senses of the word, and she's the happiest kind of providing for people and working hard,

and I think that I'm the same way, and I'm not necessarily, I don't provide in the same way she does, I guess, but I mean, it's more selfish, I guess, for me. Well, you know, and now's the time, though. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. There's, I don't have to talk a lot about selfishness on the show, but I do think that, like, there's, there's, like, a quality. qualification in there. Again, it's like it gets imbued with like a kind of a set of

qualities that are all negative, which is like, you know, saying that what you're focused on is like your work. It's not really a bad thing. It's not necessarily bad, but I think sometimes being an artist, specifically an actor, like it is kind of a selfish profession. Very self-obsessed. Yeah. So you have to be a little bit. I mean, to function. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Let's, so I'm so curious about this, the brain, which I've brought, broken my elbow, but not a compound. Yeah. Yeah. And are you alone at this point? You don't have anybody here. What did you do?

My, my girlfriend was living down the street. I was living with her at the time. I mean, staying with her, I guess, is more the proper term. As in now. I'm staying with her right now, too. I don't have a place here. And I was, thankfully, she was home. She's usually on tour. She's a dancer. And she was thankfully home. And a guy pulled my phone out of my backpack, went to my favorite. She was at the top and called that number. Oh, really? Were you passed out? No, I was fully conscious watching this pool of blood form around my arm.

Like, couldn't move. I had my backpack on. My bike was still between my legs because, like, I was in shock fully. Oh, yeah. And my nerves were torn in my arm. So I couldn't roll over because I couldn't feel my arm. You couldn't trigger anything. So my whole body felt nuts.

And a guy ran out and stopped traffic. Another biker that was right in front of me also stopped and came over and got a backpack off me. And then another guy that was walking. behind me kind of, it was three guys that helped me. I'm just, thank God they helped me. And I probably would have just gotten run over by a car if they hadn't been there. And I was so lucky because I, my mom tells me I'm so lucky anyway. Like I said, she's a nurse, a doctor now.

And she has a doctorate in teaching. Not a doctor like that. But she, because of the nature of the break and how it, it dislocated, it came out of my skin right here. Oh, wow. Yeah. It was like kind of shaped like that. Yeah. Oh, geez.

And because of the way the blood was kind of pouring through, it was going to get infected, I guess. And within minutes, you kind of like, it's a rap, I guess. Right, you get sepsis, right? Yeah. Like, kind of like systemic infection. And EMTs were driving by, and they couldn't, it wasn't an ambulance. They couldn't have taken me with them. But they got out and they splinted it for me.

Oh, wow. My mom said if that hadn't happened, like, there's so, I could have, so many awful things could have happened. Like, I could have had to have my frigging, like, forearm amputated. Oh, my God. Worst case scenario. Wow. Somebody touched me that day. Yeah.

I mean, seriously, like, I'm so thankful that they stopped traffic and everything of those EMTs came by. And then Hannah, my girlfriend, showed up, and I didn't even have to get into an ambulance. She took me to the ER. It stayed out of socket for, it was out of socket in a small fracture in my forearm. And it stayed like that for three hours, I think. Oh. With no pain medicine. I was going to say, like, they splinted it for you, but they didn't readjust the bone.

No, they just immobile. So, like, the blood wouldn't go in other places, essentially, just to stabilize it. And I stayed like that until three hours later, they put me to sleep and popped it back in. And then I stayed overnight. Jesus. Yeah, it was crazy. It was crazy. How was it recovering from that for you?

It was a mind game for sure, because I had never, like, I broke my leg pretty bad when I was, like, six, I think. But I don't remember. I mean, that was way worse, but I don't remember that at all, really. I have, like, picture memories of that. But this was, yeah, it was like a mind game for sure Because I had just been coming out of this dark phase of my life And I really had just decided I was going to be more I was riding my bike everywhere at this time

I didn't drive at all I rode my bike to the valley everywhere I rode my bike to see a movie every day And I rode my bike to the gym every day at this point So like I couldn't do that obviously I couldn't lift weights And I was just getting skinnier by the day Oh no

So it was just kind of like I'm screwed I'm screwed I'm screwed I'm never gonna act again which was dramatic, obviously, but like, you know, it's just, I don't know. I could feel that extreme, I imagine, especially a break that way. It's not like you just bonked it and you have a little back. It was very extreme. And like being active is very important to me in some capacity, whatever that means.

And I don't know how bad and how dark of a phase I would have gotten into if I hadn't have booked a job kind of right out of that time period. I'm so happy I got this job because who knows, Redview, right? Right, seriously. Mentally. Life is a mentally, right? It's a mystery.

Now, you would come saying that you booked Arrow. Yeah. Is that how it was pitched to you that you were booking Arrow? Yeah, but it was, you know, everyone that went out for Barry Allen saw on the breakdown that it was a guest spot. I can't even remember if it was two, because I think, I did two, and I think it was, even at the time, two guest spots with a potential spin-off for a pilot is what it was. Crazy. Yeah. So we knew it was.

And you knew you were the, if you knew anything about anything. If you knew who Barry Allen was, yeah. That's the flash. So I kind of knew, like, whoever got this was at the very least getting a pilot, for sure. Right. And at the time, it was supposed to be what they call a backdoor pilot, I guess. It was going to be an episode of Arrow. I was supposed to do a third episode of Arrow, which would be episode 20 of Arrow,

and it would have been our pilot. It would have served as our pilot. And Jesse would have been in that with me. and a few of the other actors. I think Danielle and Carlos would have both been in that as well. But then the two episodes where they introduced Barry, their numbers skyrocketed. So they were kind of like they felt the demand for the character.

So they decided to do the standalone. And it's just kind of everything worked out after that. Where Danielle and Carlos cast at that point? Because they showed up in your first, did they show up in your first Arrow episode? No. No. My first two Arrow episodes,

It was just me and the Arrow cast. And then I think they were in like an episode of Arrow, like a few episodes later. Okay. And then we remember them and I'm trying to think of like how I remember them coming in. They started in court. We were shooting when we shot the pilot, I think they shot an episode of Arrow. I think that's how it worked out. It's hard to remember now with all the crossovers we do.

It's crazy. But you're a relative newcomer, not to the arts, but to, you know, Harry Wood. Yeah. And I wonder what that experience was like for you testing for something. It could have potentially been such a big deal. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, because I'm like a pretty anxiety.

I'm a pretty anxiety-driven person, anxious person. And I was coming out of this phase that I was coming out. My manager was really worried about me, Robert. Really? Yeah, because it was, he knows how much pressure I put on myself and I'm really hard on myself. As most people are, I'm my toughest critic for sure. but like I'll I will shit on myself like I like when it comes to auditioning like I'm like I tear myself apart um I'm much better in the past two years for sure but at that point like no one I hadn't gotten that

no one had yeah I was looking for validation from other people right and um I'm less worried about that now for sure but you know getting this job helped that for sure so it's a vicious circle um but it was it was crazy it was an anxious period for me for sure it was a five or six week period of waiting and going back in. And it was David Rappapour cast us, and he had put me on 90210 the year before. But I didn't know him that well at this point. I mean, he had cast me, and I knew he was a cool casting director.

But he, in my first audition, was like, I'd love you for this. After I read, he was like, you're perfect for this. I love you. I'm having you back in, told me in the room that I had a call back, which I actually don't know if that had ever happened for me. I don't know if I ever got a call back in the room before. Right, right.

So that was really cool, obviously, because I went into it kind of thinking, I'd be an idiot not to audition. I got this thing. It's cool that I have this audition, but I'm never going to get this. Yeah. And so that immediately changed the way I was thinking about it. When he said, I think you're perfect for this. So I put all of, as much as I could, I put all of those doubts out of my head.

And I was like, okay, casting director loves me for this. I have to be serious about this. And then I had my callback, which I think, David Nutter was in the room who directed our pilot. He's directed, I think his statistics are 17 or 18 pilots directed, 17 picked up. Wow. I think those are his stats. So that was cool.

And he gave me a phone call before my first call back and said, I said you're my guy. So over the phone, I need you to get this. And basically wasn't guaranteeing me that I. need you to get this. Like, wait, you,

well, he basically was telling me, because this, this is a network TV show. Yeah, he's like, yeah, basically telling me

how to get it. Right, right, right, yeah. Just that he wanted me to get it and he was going to help me out. And that, also, that obviously instilled more confidence in me.

And, um, and then my, my first callback, he was in there. I think Andrew Christberg was in there and Jeff Johns was in there. And we, you know,

we talked comics and we hit it off. Yeah. And we just personally got along right away. And that, again, gave me more confidence. And I think throughout the whole thing, like, every morning I didn't eat until after the audition. I was so stressed. But I knew that I had a really good chance after that first audition. But I had that fully out of my mind.

I mean, people close to me that know me really well, like my mom and my girlfriend and a couple other close friends kept telling me how good they felt about it. And I didn't want to hear that. But like everyone that was close to me felt all this positive energy. And I did too, but I didn't want to talk about it. No, I get it. I get it. And because that can be perilous.

Yeah. Oh, great. I know you're going to get it. I mean, even hearing that from an executive producer can be really dangerous. And I was. I was hearing it from people that I was like, Grant, you're getting this. Like, you stop, like telling yourself you're not. Like, you're about to get this because of people that were telling me that they wanted me to get it,

basically. Right. Right. That mattered. Right. But I still, you know, I mean, there was a million other voices. A million. A million.

I think that you can't. This isn't a done deal. And I think on a, it was Friday the 13th. It was, I want to say, I forget what month it was, but it was Friday the 13th. And I wasn't going to find out that day about, at this point I had done a screen test, a network test, and something else. I had done three auditions on camera. On camera. All for Arrow.

Okay. And I wasn't going to find out on this Friday. I wasn't going to find out until Monday. So I was like, I'm going to go crazy. My last test had been on Thursday. So I was like, why aren't we finding out on Friday? Like, yeah. And did you just feel like you've seen me a million times? You've seen it? Yeah. Like, come on, this is ridiculous. So I had to not think about it. And I went to Malibu with my buddy. And I never go to the beach. Like I said earlier. I wanted to just be on the beach. And I wanted to not think about anything. Right. Anything. So we went to the beach. And, and, and. I was, and it was great. And I had forgotten about it. And my manager called me and I was like, why is he calling me? He shouldn't be calling me today. He said, we wouldn't find out. And I found out right there on the beach that I got it. And it was like the craziest moment ever.

And it makes me want to like cry right now thinking about it. I mean, it was just like so surreal. I jumped in the ocean and just kind of and then just, I mean, it was just such a moment that I just got to really let it hit me. And then I immediately was just like so scared. I was like, why? I was like, why did I get this? Yeah. Yeah, oh no, no.

No, no. I'm not a superhero. No, I have to do this. How much time transpired, and it's a thousand degrees in here, I know. It's like the valley is the worst. Between when you got the job and when you worked, do you have plenty of time to nurse your fears? Yeah, it was way too long.

Yeah. Like, I think I want to say like a month. Oh, God, that is way too long. Yeah, I want to say it was like four weeks before I worked. And, yeah. And I spent that entire month thinking they had made a giant mistake. Really? I had like all of those voices were immediately back that had existed throughout the audition process

that were kind of trying to push me up the left. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, and I spent the rest. I think it was fine. I think it was fine, though, that I spent that time worrying because it was like a part of the development of the character at that point. Barry had all this anxious energy early on. And, like, I think how anxious I was was almost necessary for the role at that point. Right, right.

But then, I mean, once I got there, like, the confidence was kind of instilled in me again by David. Wasn't directing that episode of Arrow, but he flew in and basically directed me in that episode of Arrow because he was going to direct our pilot. Right. And he was an ear, or a voice in my ear that whole time. And so immediately again, I felt like this is, I'm okay. Like, I'm doing this. And you had some guidance. Yeah.

Yeah. They've got my back. I mean, because a lot of times you can just kind of feel like you booked it and then everybody disappears. Yeah. Yeah. So it was nice that at least he was there. And then during the pilot, I mean, Jeff, Johns was there all the time and Andrew was

there all the time. And they really, at this point today, I can honestly say that they have made me believe that when they see me, they see the heart of Barry Allen. And they truly believe that. And at the end of the day, that's all that matters to me. Because I know they know who Barry Ellen is. And I know it matters to them getting it right. So if they think they're getting it right, then I trust that.

Right, right, exactly. And especially because, like you said, tonally, character-wise and tonally, you had somebody step in and say, I have a vision for how this is going to look down the line, and we're going to, like, plant all these seeds here. Which we're done really beautifully. I mean, it's exciting that you come on to a show. And a part of it is like if this goes well,

you're going to be a superhero, but if it goes poorly, maybe it doesn't happen. That had to have been a lot of pressure, too. Different from just, hey, come do six episodes on this show or, hey, come guest star. It's weird, too, though, because I didn't have the normal, like, worries and anxieties that people would probably have. Like, I didn't, while I was doing Arrow worry that maybe we won't get a pilot. And when we were doing the pilot, I didn't worry, maybe we won't get picked up. I, like, I don't want to say I assumed that we'd have a series, but, like, I think I kind of, that wasn't what I was worried about. I don't know why.

And I don't know what I was worried about then. It's just that constant feeling of anxiety. Yeah. But like I truly just kind of believed and not in a like cocky way or an overconfident way, I don't think, because I didn't voice it. But like I knew that who was running the show and who after meeting the cast and reading the script that we were going to have a series. Right. Just because it all felt right. And just you had that feeling in your stomach that I've never even done a pilot.

But like, yeah. I knew that, like, it was the flash and, like, people wanted to see this. And my character had already existed on Arrow and there was such a positive response. And people loved that show. And I knew what they were going to do with effects. And I just knew this was something that was going to be really cool. I don't know how, but I just felt really good about it. That's exciting also because it seems like that's in direct contravention to your normal tempo,

which is, oh, my God, this is about to be a show. I know. Yeah. I don't know why. And that carried with me throughout the whole, filming every single day. It was just, I never, and I had always been the type of actor to be, when I was on set, always doubting myself and being my critic and being my biggest critic and all of that.

And just not even enjoying myself because I'm so stressed out and I want to do a good job. Right. But I didn't carry that type of energy with me throughout the first season of Flash. I just, I felt like I was in the right place with the right people doing the right thing. And there was kind of, everyone felt like the material was what it was supposed to be and the people who were they were supposed to be. And it was just, I don't know, that energy just didn't exist for me, at least as an actor. I just felt comfortable and happy and like I was getting better every day. And just, I don't know, I think that was it too.

It's I felt challenged and I had accepted the challenge. Right. And it was the biggest difference. Right. having said that that you were challenged and you accepted the challenge how much was the, was just the practical elements of being number one on a call sheet, the time,

the energy, kind of the burden of having to show up every day and carry almost every scene. I mean, I've seen the entire first season of the show and almost all of it. And you're in almost everything. I mean, you know, there are a few,

sometimes are a few little beelines, but you're just, you know, it's your show. Sometimes when I watch it even and I'm, and there's like a minute or so without me, I'm like, how is that even possible? Because when we shoot, it's like I am literally there. It feels like every single scene, yeah. Yeah. So how prepared were you for just the literal, the literal burden or the literal weight of carrying a show? I think that also goes hand in hand with the fact that I didn't have the normal worries that someone would normally have because I never and to this day I don't think I'll ever feel that way about the Flash and even though I am the Flash and on the call sheet I am number one it doesn't feel like this is my show this is my responsibility this lives or dies with me it doesn't feel that way wow it's it because Jesse Martin is on the show with me and Tom Cavanaugh is on the show with me and everybody I mean.

Danielle Carlos and Candice. I mean, they all, everyone wants to be there. I love all of them. They all love doing it. And it really is a full team effort. And there's no sense of anything else but that when we're on set. And that everyone genuinely loves doing it and wants to have fun. So that's what's on my mind when we're filming is that we're just having fun and we're all in the same boat.

This is my ship to steer. and it doesn't feel like that. That's great. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, there is something also specific, too, about the fact that you are playing this really well-established character, right? So there's some of the burdens just being carried by the fact that you have these incredible team behind the show. D.C.'s behind the show.

Everybody knows the character. They're drawn to the character. You know, your version of Barry Allen is like a captivating, lovely, engaging Barry Allen. There's a lot of people who would shit that. I'm not going to name any people, but we have had others who, be here shows where the person has not been, has not been captivating enough to hold people's attention. But I think, so I think your Barry Allen is a big reason why the flash is a hit, but there is this other thing, which is like, oh, I'm playing this beloved character that people know

and understand. Yeah. I mean, the character is likable on his own. Right. And they're writing, they're, they know who he is and they're doing a good job of writing it. And I mean, it's, and that's why I trust them at this point. And I just kind of, like, I'm, um, I'm, as much of myself as I can be with the material just because that's basically what they've asked of me. At the end of the day, it's like there is, that alleviates almost all of the pressure because I know they're going to give us a good script

and I get to basically be as much of myself as I can with that script. You interacted obviously probably quite a bit in the beginning when you were doing the crossover on Arrow was Stephen Amel who at this point would have been two seasons in. When I was guest turning on. Yeah. Yeah, it was the second season.

Second season. And, you know, had learned a lot about, you know, carrying a show. Yeah. I wonder if you guys had conversations about that, if he gave you a... I don't know, this is like a very television question. Yeah. Because I think he was saying to me when he was on my show, oh, you know, it was really great for me to be able to share some stuff with Grant that I had learned.

Yeah. I mean, he had always kind of said that door was open and kind of left it up to me. to seek any advice. Because most of his advice, his advice was along the lines of it just being a marathon. And nothing really would prepare me for it, which was really good advice because I didn't worry about it, which was good for someone like me that always worries about everything.

I just kind of really took that to heart and accepted that, like, there was no way I could possibly know what was coming. Right, right. that I was going to have to do the next nine months, no matter what, because I just signed a contract. Yeah. And I just kind of did it. Yeah, but I mean, that was most Stephen's biggest advice that he gave me. It was just, it was a marathon.

And like, if you need to say no to something, they're like, you have to say no. I mean, like, if you think for you, you need to say no, then you say no, because this is your job. This is important. And for me especially, it's like, I take it very, very seriously. and I don't ever want to go up on a line ever when I'm standing on set I mean I take it really, really seriously and I don't even like doing anything else

for a second on weekends if I can avoid it that doesn't have anything to do with resting or the show like Wow. And even when it comes to like I feel really bad about it a lot of times because Stephen's so good about it but like the conventions and everything like I just season one at least there was no way someone's calling me

there was no way I was going to be able to do any of them because I just didn't I couldn't give any of my brain power to that or any of my energy and like someone like me who is so an introverted extrovert who doesn't even like social situations to begin I mean that to me is like the scariest thing in the world

and eventually I'm just going to have to rip it off like a band-aid and do it and I will start doing the conventions at some point but like I said like Comic Conn't terrifies me until it terrified me last year until I'm out there doing it and then I'm happy and I'm having fun and I'm in my element but the idea of the conventions on top of the TV schedule in the midst of it all like I don't understand how all of my friends are doing it right right I'll incorporate it at some point but thus far it's like I can't do anything extra no so I take it so seriously and so focused you kind of get a little bit like you get incrementally more

and more behind the eight ball season goes on anyway do you know what I mean you you come and rested and then it's just like essentially your rest is being eroded over time and you can never really replenish it until you get to you finish the season yeah fully so anything that eats into that restfulness yeah that you don't have to do you how you you know can't do traveling's a big deal on a weekend because you I mean we every single Friday the earliest we would ever wrap on a Friday I think freak a freakish scenario was like 11 p.m. which was like that's not normal. Right.

Like 12, midnight is like, we did really good and we wrapped early on a Friday. But we usually, they're called Fratter-day. I know the phrase Friday, which everybody, that's when your Friday turns into a Saturday.

Yes. I mean, Saturday's gone. You just have Sunday to recoup. But then, I mean, if you're working 14-hour camera days, bare minimum,

like all day Sunday, all you're thinking about is tomorrow's Monday. Oh, yeah. So, like, your weekend's mentally gone. Done. Because you have done a Friday.

You get home at worst-case. scenario between seven and eight a.m. And are going to sleep when the sun's coming up and maybe sleep for three or four hours or the whole day. Or you're trying to put extra rest in the bank, which probably you've been exhausted because you haven't gotten eight hours all week, right? Yeah. Oh, no.

I average, which I'm pretty good, actually. I average six because I'm going to get my sleep. Yeah. And I don't, I used to, up until this last year, like, I used to get sick like six times a year. But then I started doing this and like I think because I knew I couldn't get sick, I only got sick one time. And it was pretty early on. Yeah. It's like episode six or we were doing six, I think, because it was during a, not the Paley panel that we did, but there was a Paley festival thing that I had to miss that I had like committed to. Oh, wow. And I, it was coming out of a

frowter day. I was supposed to shoot until 5 a.m. and get on a plane at 9 a.m. go to L.A. and I was the first time I had gotten sick and I had to bail and I felt so bad. And then I, I think because I felt so bad about having to bail, and I knew I couldn't get sick. Like, I never got sick again that year. Oh, wow. And not even like I was in denial about it. Like, I never got sick again that whole first season.

That's impressive, actually. For me, especially. Anyone that knows me couldn't believe I didn't get sick. I have one more question. I think we'll just have afflicted wounds. But this is a story I think I've already told on this show that the last time I was on a series where I was number two, I would get home after work and I would make soup,

and I would bring soup and my sides. into the bathtub so that I could eat, learn my lines, bathe, and, like, get that all done in 20 minutes? I started doing something similar, actually. It was less healthy, I guess. I would take Epsom salt baths almost after every night because of, I mean, I'm in the suit too. I mean, physically exhausting some days. And I would take an Epsom, for the first, like, two weeks this lasted. I couldn't get out with it because I just started crashing. But I would take an Epsom salt bath and then roll out on a foam roller afterwards. But, like, I would take an Epsom salt bath and then roll out on a foam roller afterwards. but like I would always without a doubt take, put my computer on the toilet and watch Netflix while I'm in the bath and have a glass of wine.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah. Always. Yeah, oh, totally. Wine, sometimes wine on the side. Occasionally, I would eat chocolate. It would fall in the water and melt. I took one.

I've many times taken wine into a shower, you know, just like I'm standing in the shower and then I'll just put it down and like. However you can soothe yourself. At that moment when you have so little time, you're like, how can I give myself? What am I doing while I'm at home tonight? Because this is my time. Hug me out, you know? I always, without a doubt, no matter what time we wrap, I'm up for at least two to three hours.

Yeah, just to decompress. Can you? Yeah. Jesse has a friend that calls it the Actors Rebellion. Oh. You do. No matter what time, you come home, and it's like, this is my time. Yeah, I insist. Like, I'm going to do what I want.

I'm not going to bed. Right, right. I insist. I have to be a person. Yeah. I have to be a human being. Yeah. Okay, this is the last question for self-infected wounds.

And the question is, that you were describing this dramatic difference in your perspective on kind of how things are going to go and your life and your optimism and that you have this, maybe this kind of like undercurrent of, I don't think it's negativity, but I think some people analyze scenarios differently, kind of can analyze them in a polyanish way

or can analyze them in kind of what could go wrong way. But I wonder after feeling such a, like a, what seems to me, what sounds like this kind of comprehensive calm about this role and this show, and this show and how it was going to go and really knowing, has it affected the way that you see other things in your life? Has it changed that internal monologue?

It has, and I think maybe kind of slowly. Because I've, like throughout the season, I realized I was handling it better than I thought I would. And I think throughout this hiatus and throughout last year with things that weren't work, I kind of started to realize I was handling some things better than I had in the past or I thought I would handle throughout the process. And I mean, things with my family and things,

with my finances and things. I mean, everything, I definitely, like, grew up in the past year and had just, like, I was proud of myself, I think, for the first time in, like, a really long time, or if ever, and was just really, I felt really the more confident than I'd ever felt. So it just kind of has been slowly but surely definitely making me an overall more confident person and less driven by anxiety, for sure. That's awesome. Yeah.

That's really exciting. Yeah, it is. I'm definitely more easygoing. I like think about things less in general. Yeah. Is, you know, a relative because like I am someone whose brain never stops thinking about something that's not in the room. Yeah. But you said you grew up and I think there's something really exciting about that.

People can think that means like you write checks or you got a car. But I think there's something about growing up that's about like knowing yourself more keenly and having like things feel less alarming. Like, you know, you can weather. Yeah. what's coming. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. I think I definitely have, I know myself better than I ever have for sure. And I like myself more than I ever have, even because even though I'm aware of a lot of the negative things about me that I wasn't aware of probably prior to the past year or so, but I definitely am, even so, I like myself more than I ever have and I'm more confident I've

ever been for sure. More forgiving of yourself? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. That's awesome. Okay, do you have your self-infected wounds still? Yeah, so tell me the concept of this again? Sure, absolutely. So it has to be something that went wrong in your life that was your own fault. It doesn't have to be something cataclysmic. I'm pretty lucky, looking. Yeah, right?

And it originally came about, it was like everybody's worst drinking story. It was like, oh my God, I was a obsession jackass last night. That kind of that funny, like you walk into a bar until your friends are crazy story. But not everybody drank. So then it became a lot more later. Do you want to give me a couple? He probably can show you the Chris Rock example, which is never the best example. I mean, it's the most explosive one, but it's not the best one

because nobody else has done anything that stupid. Yeah, so it falls out. It's one of the best stories I've ever heard. Yeah, that's crazy. Here are a couple ones that are not so dramatic. Let's see. George Stromvolopoulos told us about getting his first big TV job, and he got like a Dukati.

He told me, this is the other one. Oh, yeah, to the one where they wrecked it like the first day he got it. Yeah, didn't know how to write it. And then, let's see. I'm trying to think of some really good ones that were like, Dave Eggers told a story about liking a girl and riding by her house every day on his bike to watch her in her room. He's like in retrospect, I realize this is creepy. And then now, when I tell you the rest of it, it got creepier.

And so one day he saw her and she was undressing. And so he pulled over his bike. He's like a case like 11. And he's watching her. And then he realized that he'd beat himself. And he was like, he said he was like, I felt very strange. And then I was like, oh, dear Lord, how do I get home? She never saw him, though, so that was good.

That's amazing. A lot of people have talked about. Oh, Jesse, did Jesse tell you? No. Jesse's was really good. Jesse's was he turned 21 on rent. I think it was that young during rent? He was super young during rent.

Or maybe it was like his birthday. He was, because he got it like right out of school. So, yeah. And everybody, it was like, it was his birthday and like a big part of the cast on the play. There was some British people. Maybe it was a different play. He was with a cast, a lot of them were British. And he didn't really drink.

And, you know, he said, because I never, and he's like, and I never ate before the play because I didn't want to be kind of like full. And so, then it was my birthday, and I had champagne, then I had cake, and then we went out, and then I was with all these British people, and I just drank so much. And I was so excited because we're all at this bar sitting together,

and I vomited on every single person in the booth. It was like a movie scene. He's like, I just went on everyone. And he's like, and there was a girl I liked in the cast, and she was really sweet. That pretty much does it. Yeah, and she put me in the taxi, and she put me in the taxi, she was really nice about it.

And it really should have been like the death knell of that relationship. I don't know. I mean, to be honest, like, my adult life has been very boring and, like, business-driven. I think for me, it's, like, most of the stupid shit I did was, like, as a really young kid with my brother. And we used to, I remember one thing. I mean, I'll tell you about that in a second. But we used to, he, we were really hard on my little sister. Really?

Like, tortured her, actually. Oh, no. It was messed up. But we, yeah, we were little. Kids have a large capacity for cruelty. I mean, we had like, actually, like, I don't even know if I'll get in trouble for this story. It's like animal cruelty kind of. I have like two animal cruelty stories.

Oh no. I'm probably going to come after me. But I'm like, swear to God, I'm an animal lover. Yeah. Always have been. Also, you were a child. It's not like you're endorsing the behavior. Not endorsing this behavior at all.

But I was, like I said, a big Superman fan as a kid. And we had a guinea pig named Lois. and I broke Lois's back. Oh, no. I would throw her up in there repeatedly and tell her that I would save her, basically. And I didn't even drop her, but, like, she's hitting my hands. Just like a frail little thing. This was at four, I think.

I was very young. And then at, like, this is worse. Six or seven, we put our hamster. I don't know what we thought would happen with this. We put the hamster on the ceiling fan. Oh, no. And I think thought that he would cling, hold on. on real tight.

Yeah, and go around, yeah. And go around, which was done. I mean, this is seven-year-old. You're a child. Yeah, children. Do not do this, kids. And, yeah, the hamster went flying and hit the wall. Oh, no.

My mom to teach us a lesson, helped, made sure that we would try to nurse that hamster back to life. And we took it to the vet. And me and my brother gave that hamster syringe medicine every day. We watched him get skinnier and skinnier and that hamster didn't make it. And it was a life lesson for us for sure. Oh, God. Probably made me more.

more of an animal person. Yeah, than ever. Painful to, because like the abrupt thing of hurting the hamsters, but to like watch it, like to try to care for something. Yeah. I mean, that was the thing is like, and we didn't even know that we were having a lesson talked to us at the time. We were just trying to save the goddamn hamster.

Right, right, right. But this story, I'll never live down. This was, and my mom only found out because we went to the dentist that evening and my sister spilled the beans to the dentist, casually telling this story, thinking that it was funny. But we had, this is so fucked up. Whenever I tell the story, people are like, why did you do that? It's not that serious.

What we did was we took a three-year-old little sister, Gracie, maybe four, and we duct taped her fully, her legs, her torso, her arms, like, to a chair. Oh, no. Put her in a closet. No! Close the closet door. And then put a speaker against the closet with music, like, blasting for, like, oh, my God. A while until like... So she's calling for help and she can't be heard because of the music.

I don't know what we were doing. I don't know where mom was. My mom wasn't there. I mean, maybe, I guess we were like, that's why this story is bad. Like she, my brother must have been like 11. Yeah, old enough to know. And I was like nine. Yeah.

And we were like a home alone and he, we were like kind of taking care of ourselves, I think, for an hour or so. Yeah. And then we went to the dentist that night and she's, my sister was telling the dentist the story and just thought it was, I think just kind of recounting the events. Yeah. And my mom was like, what?

What do you? What? Like, and we'll never live that down. Oh, no. The torture we inflicted upon great. Has she recovered from it? She still talks about it. I'm really close with her now, though.

So she's, yeah, she's coming to L.A. actually, for the very first time today. She's never been to California. She's never been to the West Coast. How lovely. How lovely also that you have this life now where you get to kind of bring your family and do it in a way where they get to have different experiences. Yeah. It's actually been. The nicest part of having a steady TV job actually is I get to Virginia maybe once a year.

So, I mean, on average, the past seven years, I've seen them like once a year. So now, yeah, I fly them to Vancouver, fly them to L.A. They see a city they've never seen and I can see them and I can keep working. Yeah, yeah, that's the best. And come to set and be dazzled by it all. It makes me feel any better. I punched my sister in the nose when I was a kid and gave her like a bloody, you know what I mean? And she still weird.

And she's like literally like my best friend in the whole world. And she still talks about it too. I sent Tyler, my brother to the ER a few times. We were playing Chase one time. Chase me through the house. He, um, how to happen? I ran out the front door before him. This is a glass door.

I knew he was right behind me. Slammed it behind me as he reached for me and his whole arm went through the glass door. He had to get stitches all up his arm. Oh my God. It was like a 10-inch scar. Oh. Many of many stories like that. Yeah.

kids are beasts there's no way around it no thank you so much for doing my show grant this was awesome thank you yeah that was grant gustin delightful in every way i'm right in this particular case i know i'm right most of the time i'm wrong but in this particular case i'm 100% correct he was a delight i hope you enjoyed that episode of the show no apolloja for today uh other than a prophylactic apolloja for the show posting in a herky-tricky fashion over this fall as I try to get my shit together with all the work that I'm doing. But I just want to thank you again for your support, everybody who's donating and writing and tweeting and fax-facebocking and go do all those things online. You can find me at my three handles at Aisha Tyler, at Girl and Guy, at Courage and

Stone. Come follow me, friend me, Facebook me, tweet me, follow me, Tumblr me. Oh, God, that sounded super dirty. But you know what I mean. And maybe I intended it in a dirty way. I don't know my mind anymore. You guys are the greatest. You are my army. You are bold. You are driven. You are inspired. And you are a legion. I'll touch you in the next one. Late. Girl on Guy is a production of Hot Machine, blowing shit up since 2009.