Girl on Guy with Aisha Tyler - girl on guy 203: travis van winkle

Episode Date: November 12, 2015

join travis van winkle of the last ship and aisha as they discuss travel, vision, destruction, rebirth, dropping out, turning inwards, giving back, and reaching out. plus travis and aisha share a cup of java, commando. girl on guy takes her coffee black. like her women.

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Hey, everybody, welcome to Girl on Guy, 203. Welcome to the show. I haven't heard from any of you about whether the show has sounded more echoly lately. So if you want to tweet me about that, let me know. It is an echoier space with higher ceiling I had really great insulation in the previous bunker,

and this place is a little bit more cavernous. It's very cool, but it's just a different space. So if this show is sounding different, let me know. I'm always eager to hear from you guys. You know, I am the engineer of this show. I don't know if I can fix it. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing, but it's always nice to hear from you.

That's my point. I'd like to hear from you, even if nothing can be done about your questions and concerns, feel free to send them on anyway because it'll just make us all feel more connected to each other. Less empty inside. Let's talk. Let's chat about your feelings.

Let's get the business out of the way. Well, first of all, you know, I'm working very hard and lots of things can be done to see me across a variety of media platform, including Criminal Minds Wednesday nights on CBS, and every day on the talk, also on CBS. Working very hard on Season 7 O'Archer, which launches in January on FX, and we will start suiting a new season of Who's on is anyway, also in January, working very hard in the film that I shot last year. And on a courage and stone, we'll be launching in the spring of 2017. So many, many good things I am working on.

Many good things are in the oven and baking and rising, and soon will explode all over our faces and might get in our ears and mouths. But it'll be a nice little something. Hopefully it'll be courage in stone getting in your ears and mouths, which, by the way, would be excellent. And it sounds to me like an awesome dream. Let's get the business out of the way right this minute. This show is brought to you.

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interesting guy, and he has such an interesting backstory, including the fact that he was an Abercrombian Fitch model. If you ever wondered who those guys are and what they do next, the super hot guy that's in the ads with no shirt on, looking like a delicious thing that you might want to put in your mouth if that's how you get down. What do they do next?

Well, they go on to be in a bunch of Michael Bay movies, including Transformers on Friday the 13th, and then finally in this series, The Last Ship. This guy's a lovely guy, hardworking, sweet, present, doing amazing things with this free time, including a bunch of killer charity work. And he's really forthcoming about his experiences as a kid and stuff

that he did and how it affected him and how he wished it was different and what he's learned. And he was a delight to talk to, a delightful guy. I really enjoyed this conversation. And I know I feel 100% confident that you will too. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Girl on Guy 203 with the actor Travis Van Winkle. And it is coming at you straight out of the new and improved Girl on Guy Bunker. and right into your face. Okay, this is going great. I've never done a drug in my life. I've never done anything bad.

I'm perfect. Oh, good. Show's over. Thank you. This has been real. It was really great. Thank you. Try us.

My uncle. Welcome to my show. Hi. Hi. Okay, so I don't know you. We just met. We did. And so I think that because we just met,

we should just start at the beginning. I made you a nice cup of coffee. I want to say that I'm in the new, my new office, everybody. And in my old office, I had like the fancy curig thing and I would make everybody coffee out of there. But Travis asked me to make him when I'm drinking, which is a very like rugged trucker style cup of instant coffee.

It looks super black and there's no clear. Like me, super black. I just wanted to be like you. Super, super black. That's what's going to have when you leave here. You're going to leave here super black. But I'm not making an ad for this company, so I'm not going to say their name. But it's not like dehydrated coffee.

It's actually just ground up coffee grounds. So it is super black. You should say their name. No, because they're not going to give me any money. they're very rich and large and their name rhymes with Farbucks. Oh, okay. I'm not going to actually now. They're in a local, like a nice small local jolt.

There's not seven billion of them around the world? Well, they're local for everybody. Wherever you are, they're local. So let's just start from the beginning, Travis, and tell me where you were born. I was born in Victorville, California, so I'm a desert baby. Okay, and Victorville is the place that you pass on the way to Vegas? Victorville is a place that you go to die. but I went there to be born

what kind of a town is that like what do you remember do you know anything about meth I well other than the massive amounts I do no I mean I know a little bit about the meth epidemic yeah heroin too that far in the desert really

everything that you want there now can I ask you a question about that specifically and then we'll go back to you when you were an adorable pre-met and heroin baby which is that like I think everybody thinks about drugs specifically as like big city problem you know what i mean like people in

the big city the big fast city but i actually think that everybody that i know they grew up in a small town started partying super early and i'm just assuming that's a function of the fact that there's nothing to do yes and it's also i grew up actually just south of atlanta so i grew up in a small little city but it was close enough to Atlanta right so where we could go to Atlanta get into some trouble right and then buy the things we needed to buy and then come back to the little city and be ridiculously bad. Now, before we get into your later hijinks. Yes. So you were born in Victorville. How long did you live there? For about three years. So you were a little baby when you left. Yeah, I was born on the Air Force Base. St. George Air Force Base. My mom and dad met in the Air Force. Oh, no. That's nice.

My mom got pregnant. And then they got married. And they're still in love today. It's been 35 years. That's rad. Yeah. Did they tell you when you were old enough to understand, like, I'm curious about, Is that allowed? Are you supposed to be able to date, like, another enlisted person? So I'm on a show called The Last Ship, and I'm actually, I have this star-crossed relationship where I'm not supposed to be dating another lieutenant. And I am. And it mirrors the exact relationship that my parents had. Wow.

So did they have to keep their relationship a secret? Until she got pregnant. My mom actually got pregnant multiple times so she could get out of the Air Force. That was her agenda. Rock and roll. So she got pregnant three times in three and a half years. Purpose. Busy. Mission.

What? Very Irish of her. Super. Three pregnancies in three and a half years. Sorry, hon. So, interesting. So were they keeping their relationship a secret at the beginning? They didn't have to keep theirs a secret because they weren't the same rank.

And I don't even know what they were doing in the Air Force. Is that right? So is it, see, now that, okay, that's crazy to me because I would think, pitching, that it would be okay if you were both officers and you were senior, but not if, like, one of you was senior and one of you was junior because then there might be, like, some kind of, like, disbalanced power. struggle. I should know this because I'm on a show that's all about this, but I don't know. You go Wikipedia this when you leave. I'm homework. You do. I'm giving you homework.

We're going into our third season. I should really know this. You should. This is backstory. I'm a terrible person. You are. You are. Terrible person. Yeah, like it translates to your whole personality that you don't know this one thing. Wow, you see how quickly I devalue myself. Right, right. And then I jumped right now. I was like, I guess you are. I'm a little bit of person. I don't know you at all. So they get pregnant, they get married, and then your mom eventually, no, do they kick her out when she got pregnant three times in a row? I think they let you go. That's just like a, yeah, yeah. That's effective. That's a way. She knew how to get out. Make a person and make a new person. Make multiple people. Right, right.

And they had us, my mom and dad started having, so I have an older brother and a younger sister. So they started at a young age. I think my mom was 21 when she had my brother. Right. So your parents are young. My mom is 57. My dad is 58. Yeah, young parents. And we're all on our 30s. Yeah. So when they left Victorville, was it because they left the military? My mom got out of the military. My dad stayed in the military, moved to Michigan. So then we lived on Lake Huron in Michigan, which is a very cool.

Now it's every place I've lived. Now that's like a crack den as well. I don't know what it is. You are terrible luck. You're like Johnny Cracksseed. I know, Johnny Crackssey. I've never been called that. But that could stick.

Yeah, it's fun. It's playful. So we lived in Michigan for, I don't know, maybe six years. and then moved to Atlanta when my dad got out of the Air Force and started working for Delta. Okay. As a pilot? No, I would have had a nicer car in high school if he was a pilot. He was a computer guy.

Okay. So we got to fly for free all of my childhood. Wow. And did that translate into a lot of travel for your family? It did. And it translated into skipping school for me and flying to New York for the day. Oh, that's cool. Just like deadheading to New York.

Yeah, because all of my friends that lived in the same city as I did, all their parents work for Delta. So we all had these little blue cards and we could go to the airport and choose. choose where we wanted to fly if there was availability. Yeah. And then we would just go. That's incredible. How old were you when you started doing that?

It started in high school. I started flying with my family around nine. But I started making really great trips with my friends, like around 16. Yeah. Flew to Frankfurt, Germany. Oh, wow. With my friend that happened to be a foreign exchange student, so I just went and lived with his family. That's insane.

Yeah. How long did you go? For free. I was there for two weeks. Wow. I don't remember most of the trip. Yeah, rock and roll. Hash was a thing that I'd never knew before I got to Germany.

Like, what is this? This isn't weed, is it? Europeans are totally different. We would pull over on the side of the road and we would pull out a bong and, like, we can do this on the side of the road? This is the greatest country ever. I just realized I didn't offer you any money in cream or sugar for your coffee. You didn't offer me any. No, I didn't. Do you want some cream and sugar?

How do you take your coffee? I'm the worst host. See, but I don't know if you're going to like it. I'm just waiting to see if you like it. It's so strong. Just think of it as a really big espresso. Oh, that's dark. Yeah.

That's good. No, it's good. I can appreciate it. I want to live in, you know, this couple hours in your shoes. Okay, all right. I don't want you feel railroaded into drinking a cup of coffee you don't enjoy. I'm killing him. So, okay, so this is so interesting to me that you had what seemed to be like,

kind of like a boundaryless childhood in a lot of ways, at least once your parents got out of the military. Did it feel that way to you? No, not really, because we didn't grow up too affluent. So we would go on trips, but I lived in a very rich community. So all of my friends were super rich. At 16, they got these really great cars. They all had these huge houses.

So for me, I was always the one going, oh, man, I don't have any of that stuff. So it did not feel boundless growing up. Although it was amazing. And, I mean, I had a beautiful childhood. It didn't feel like I had that freedom my friends had. I went to, I was similar, not the same, but went to, like, private school, but, like, I was the poor kid in my private school. Do you know what I mean? So, like, all my parents could manage was to pay the tuition, and that was it. Like, it was, they barely could get that done.

And I just remember, it was the same thing, like, when I turned 16, like, my friends all had, like, BMWs and Mercedes-Benzis, and I was still, you know, walking to school, like a normal kid, I guess, like, most kids do. But I was going to ask you, but you kind of answered that, that you were hyper aware of the fact that that that was a different experience for you, that they had all that and that you didn't. I would borrow all of their clothes. I would get rides from them and their great cars. So I felt like I was living their life. Right.

So I got all the fruits of their parents' success. And you didn't feel, I don't know, you know, we kind of create our own boundaries, too. We kind of feel other, sometimes when other kids aren't making us feel that way, but sometimes they do. Did you feel like there were those lines other than your own, in their own perception? No, I don't think so. I mean, I felt a lot of my friends and their parents, they really just took me in, and I took advantage of it.

Yeah. So I can look back on my life now and go, oh, my gosh, I was such a, I was so selfish, because I literally, this is something that I would do, and I can look back and go, I was an idiot. I would borrow my friend's clothes, and I wouldn't take care of it because I'm like, oh, they have the money. They're rich. They can get a new shirt.

I don't, who cares if I ruined it? Right, right, right. And I was this little prick that really didn't give a shit about anyone else's stuff because I thought that they had the abundance to just get more. Right, right. Yeah, it was a... Hindsight is 20-20. Oh, geez.

And you're teenage years. Come on. But the thing is that for the most part, all teenagers are absolute pricks in varying degrees. It's just... It's a known fact. Yeah, just teenagers are dicks. It's just you're like growing and you're testing your own limits and, you know, you are self-ex. I think, you know, more than any other time in your life, you're just kind of like figuring out, like, where you fit in the world.

And I mean, I don't know. I'm sure I was an asshole. And I've never encountered a teenager that wasn't an asshole. Although I will say nowadays, I feel like because of technology and because of just the world, it's different. It seems like there's more consciousness that's happening. Like, there's more conscious parents. I feel like there are some teenagers that I'm like, holy shit. Right.

You're a teenager? Every once in a while you meet that. I didn't start talking or thinking like you until I was in my late 20s. Right. Like the precocious, a little precocious shit. Yeah, totally. Oh, that's infuriating. Or, like, you know, and then you do me like an adorable one that's super sweet, you know, every once in a while.

Okay, so it's come up both online and offline that you were a big partier. And, which I think is a really fun, that you sound like fun. When did you first start that? So, normally, I don't like to talk about this shit because I don't want to reveal myself. in this way, but who cares? The truth is I started at 15. I started smoking weed. Yeah. And I started drinking at 15. I had somebody else on the show the other day. I was telling you think about Kelly Carlin, George Carlin's daughter. And she said she started like around like 13. And I was saying like maybe I am like overly modern, but I think that that's probably pretty

normal. And I think maybe even more normal for teenagers now. I think it's starting earlier. Yeah, I'm not endorsing it. I'm just saying I think when we all, get to be adults, we lose, we forget what it feels like to be a 13, 14, 15 year old. It feels much younger to us now than it was when we were 13, 14, 15. And we have an unrealistic expectation about where people are in their childhood processes. I mean, I think I had my first beer at 13, like, gleefully. I was like, when am I going to have a beer? You know what I mean?

And I don't know. Like, it doesn't seem crazy young. For me, it was an escape. For me, when I would drink, I felt so confident. And I felt like I could do anything. Were you a shy kid? Inwardly, I think I was shy, and I expressed that like an obnoxious idiot outwardly. Right, right.

But I think inwardly, yes, I was really shy and into myself, but I didn't want to be that. So I would do anything I could to break from that. Right. So when I started drinking and smoking, it gave me this window to go, oh, that little voice that's in my head that's telling me that I'm not good enough or whatever is gone. Right. And I feel like a king right now. Yeah. And if I would have, like, if I would have known what I was actually doing in those times that I was intoxicated, I wasn't a king. I was some probably rambling moron, drooling on himself. We all are, though. Yeah. It's, it's interesting. I, like, I think we also have this really dismissive idea about, oh, kids, and they're, you know, it's just, and it can be destructive. Of course, but it can be destructive at any age. But I do think there's a part of it that's, like, about, like you said, like trying to come out of yourself, trying to test your own boundaries, trying to experience the world.

did it become something that, because like some kids just kind of do with, did something kind of dominated, I don't want to say dominated life like you stopped functioning, but like did it become a big part of your life? It definitely was a big part of my life. And through, I feel like I went to college

and I learned how to drink responsibly. Right. That's what I learned. And then I dropped out of college to move to Los Angeles. Right, right. And then my freshman year, I was drinking to oblivion.

I wouldn't drink to have fun. I would drink to get drunk. Right. Sophomore year, I kind of softened that a little bit. And I got a little bit wiser. you know, my, my junior year, I was like, okay, all right, I got a hold of this. I don't have to drink every night.

I don't have to black out when I drink. Right. And I started to kind of gain some control on it. Yeah. But it always, it was a part of my life from 15 until, I would say, 26. And at 26, I made this choice. I had, I went, I went snowboarding one year in Mammoth. And a lot of my friends don't drink, or they've never done drugs.

Right. How? Who are you people? Yeah, like never even once. It was, it was my, my best friend. He's one of those. And I didn't understand that. I went to Mammoth with him for New Year's one year.

We got to talk in, and I was in a place where I realized, wow, since 15 until now at 26, I've never not drank or smoked. I've never been through life sober. It's not that I had a problem or that I was like, my life was a wreck. But I was using it to the point where I was hiding from things and I didn't realize it. So once I finally said, I'm going to stop for 30. three months. Very quickly after that, I realized it was a crutch. I went on a date with a woman. I was shaking. I was so nervous. It got the moment to where we're going to be intimate and kiss.

I felt like I was like a 10-year-old kid and I was like, and I was stuttering. So I realized I was using it as a crutch intimately. I was using it as a crutch emotionally. It was something where I didn't realize how much it had me gripped until I actually stopped. And at that point, I said, okay, well, I'm not going to drink for a year. I'm not going to smoke for a year. Let me see what life is like without this so that I can really gain grips of who I am. Like who I really am. Yeah. And then after that year went by, I said, oh, shit, I got to keep doing this because it was a really hard year.

Yeah. And then I went two years. And then I went about three and a half years. And then I took some real space. And I got to reacclimate myself and reframe my relationship to alcohol and to drugs. Yeah. So it's like I had an unhealthy relationship to it because I started doing it very unconsciously at a young age. and I just needed that space to go, okay, now if I want to have a beer or two, it's because

I want to have a beer or two. It's not because I'm running from something. I had really shitty week. No, it's because I feel like having a fucking beer right now, and this is great. And that's all I need. Yeah. So it was a reprogramming that took about almost four years. It's so interesting. Everything you said is so interesting to me because I feel like for people, like you said, you never felt like your life was out of control. You never felt like you were. But one thing I've noticed, and I've talked about this a lot on the show, because I stopped drinking for a couple of years completely. And it wasn't fueled by like a breakdown or anything.

It was just like what I felt like was I was operating around 70%. And I wanted to be operating at 100%. You know, so it was like if I had a couple, if I had a couple of drinks the night before, I would get up at like seven instead of six. And so I wouldn't get a workout in or I wouldn't get the workout I wanted to get in or I wouldn't get, you know what I mean? It was all of those things.

And it just accumulates. And all of a sudden you realize like all these things I want to do, I'm not doing. I'm very high functioning. I'm getting everything. I have to get it. done done but all around the edges right all the extra stuff and and and right like even like the loss of a few minutes every day it becomes hours and hours out of your life that you you aren't like fully

present and that's the key is being fully present I think that was my main goal was to really start checking in and to get quiet and I think I would always have that escape where I could go and drink or I could go like you know let's go take a puff of a joint go walk around the beach yeah and yes that can be helpful if you do it consciously. If you go, you know what, I want to, I want to smoke pot as a ceremony and go, let me gain perspective on my life. Let me use this as a window into some new dimension. And for me, if I want to smoke pot, I'll do, I'll get really clear. And say, let me use this creatively as a tool. Right. Right. Right. I'm using just because I'm bored or because I want to have some kind of ride. Right. Right. Bored or ambivalent. I mean, and the thing about booze or, I mean,

it was so funny because I just remember thinking like about the idea that when you're in that life, And I'm not even talking about like alcoholism or just when you're just, you know, you're just using it as a tool. It's, you know, it's always a good time to have a drink, you know. You drink, you're happy. Drink when you're sad. Drinking you're hungry. Drinking you're mad. Like, there's never not a reason.

That's a dangerous part of that. Exactly. Or getting high. Like my friends who smoke pot all the time, you know, it's like there's never not a reason to get high, you know. And then you're just kind of spending a lot of your time like under about three inches of water, you know. You like you said that 15 or yours was 30 percent. Mm-hmm. that 30% of wanting to get access to that, I think doing whatever it takes, that's what I feel

like I've done in my life, is I want to get clear so that I can be optimal as a human being where I can be so efficient. And I also wanted to get more creative. And I felt like I wasn't being able to really stand and firm in my own shoes. And I feel like that decision that I made for almost four years to not drink was a really strong message to the universe, like putting down my flagpole saying, look, I want to be the best version of me possible. And I'm going to do whatever it takes to get there. That's exciting. Yeah.

And then coming back to it. No, I'm a raging alcoholic. I was hoping you put some bourbon in this coffee, but you did. Both feet, my friend. I can add soul to that at any time. Add soul. Okay, you want some soul in there. I got it for you.

Yeah, I mean, the other thing about it is when you really had a long period of clarity, you're so hyper aware of when you're not clear. You know, you're so hyper aware of like, like I went out to dinner the other night with a friend and I haven't been drinking. And so I had what, for me, in the olden days, would have been like a very modern amount of alcohol. Like I had a cocktail before dinner

and I had a glass of one with dinner. And then had like, ordered a second glass, had half of it. And I was like, geez, that was a lot of booze. You know what I mean? I got home and I fell asleep on the couch. Wild woman. I was like, really lightweight.

I was like, I'm a cheap date. now, but yeah, I mean, you just, the contrast between the two was really interesting when you realize, like, how much you used to be able, like you said, I mean, college, everybody's blackout drinking. And I was the same, like, I got there and I was like, I'd already done all that. I was like, man, you guys are really like, you need to like lock this up because I'd already done all my kind of crazy behavior in high school. And, you know, kids, we all, at that that age, we all think we're never going to die, right? So drinking to blackout's hilarious. Oh, and it's great. And you wake up the next day and you're, you're numb and you're laughing

about how fun last night was, the parts that you can remember. parts that you can remember. And that's the fun of it. Yeah. Now I think about that. That sounds excruciating. Terrifying. I don't remember what happened last night.

Anything. Like, what am I doing to my brain? Exactly. I only get one of these damn things. Exactly. And I feel like a lot of my teen years in my early 20s, I just didn't give a shit about my brain. And I think as I'm getting into my 30s, I'm like, man, did I mess up my head? Did I, did I do?

Because I did more things than just pot and alcohol. Yeah. And there's times where I go, if I'm having. a week where I get if I feel depressed or if my emotions take over or if I feel like, man, why am I not happy right now? Right. I then go, oh, fuck, it's because of that, you know, 16th, 17th, and 18th year when I was going to raves and doing stupid shit.

Right. Is it that? Or am I making that up in my mind? So I've decided that you're making it up. That's what I've decided just now. And here's why. I'll take it. Okay?

That's yours. You can have it. I think that, I think two things. I'm not a neurologist, so I'm standby for my bullshit. I feel like I should be lying down on this couch. I'm going to analyze you. I think that the human body is very resilient. I think the brain is more resilient than we think.

I mean, we all worry. I mean, the statute of limitations is up. I mean, you know, I just remember, like, being in high school, like at the parking lot of a Pink Floyd concert, sucking, like, you know, like, nitrous oxide out of a tank that my friend stole from a dentist office. Like, you know, yeah. And I can tell you for a fact.

I'm sure that kills me. brain cells. I don't, I mean, I'm not speculating. Wippets. Yeah, oh my God. Plenty of wippets in college. And I worked in a restaurant. Whenever the whipped cream containers would go down, we would all suck all the gas out of those. I mean, I was a terrible, terrible human being. You have company. But I do feel like the human body's resilient. I feel like we do know that the human brain can regenerate neurons and regenerate cells and grow new connections all the time. And I also think that the human body is so complex that like, you, you, you know, you. You know, you can sit here and be like, okay, like today I had a crazy week or I feel like chemically off-balance.

And I think that's just the nature of the human body. Like those weeks occur, what those weeks do you occur if you'd been sober your whole life or, you know, or not? Do you know what I mean? And I think we have to integrate into this that we're, there really is no separation between your little flesh suit and mine, although it looks like it. So imagine all around the world, there's so many things that are happening. We could be feeling the effects of what's happening in Russia right now. If there's some kind of, you know, uproar, there's so many things that are happening all together simultaneously that we don't even know why they're affecting us. what they are. Right, right. So there's a lot of factors that are behind the curtain that we can never

see. There's just so much complexity. There's so much complexity. And I think sometimes when we feel badly, we augment that by panicking about feeling badly rather than just realizing that at times feeling bad is like an aspect of being alive. That's it. You know? Yeah, like that's a part of who we are to like really embrace that. I think that's the part of, I think that 30% you're talking about where it's realizing that that's just life. Right, right. And to be able to accept those, you know, those swells or those waves that come in that might, this is a really uncomfortable wave that I'm writing right now.

I feel like, crap, what's that about? Yeah, instead of just being, what's happening? Be like, okay, this is, we're very bad, I think, as animals at realizing that, like, the moment that we're in is not perpetual. You know what I mean? It's like, if we feel like shit, we're like, I'm only ever going to feel like this. This is how I'm going to feel like forever. This is who I am.

This little piece of me right now. Yeah, we get really stuck that way. So you, you, you're, you're jetting to Germany and you're living the life of Riley. And are you thinking at that time that you, what you want to do when you're a grown-up? Well, I always wanted to be in the NFL. Really? I always wanted to be a football player. So I started playing football when I moved to Georgia at nine years old.

Oh, wow. Yeah. So I started. So I started. So I started. Time to start if you want to be a pro. Oh, man. And I loved it.

And I would just throw my body at just, I would always put me up against the big linemen. in the drills because I was fearless. And I practiced and I focused and I just worked my butt off. And I was always too small. I was always too slow. I was never the strong kids. So I always had to work so hard. And I did.

And I wanted to go be a pro in the NFL and I played one year in college. And I realized when I got to college that I was ill-equipped to do anything further than what I was doing there in college. The guys were so much faster. And I was just, my dream went out the window. And instead of quitting, I decided to get kicked off of the team because I didn't want my dad to be mad at me. Right. So I thought getting kicked off would be better than me quitting. You're an interesting person. What a dummy! So what did you do to get kicked off the team? I just stopped showing up. So I got a call from the coach. And he's like, yeah, we're, we're going to have a,

a meeting. We need you to bring your uniform with you, 10 a.m. tomorrow. And in my head, I'm going, yes, yes. And then I'm thinking, I have to tell my dad, no, no. Was your dad, I mean, he was a military guy. Did you have, I don't know, there's a stereotype about military families that military parents are very strict and, like, bring kind of military organization into the home. Was it like that? That was not my dad. My dad was the most, like, anti-military guy ever, minus the fact that, you know, he liked drinking and, like, going out with his friends. And he was a fun guy. But it wasn't very strict. Like we didn't wake up at 0,600, and I kept to be like...

Hospital corners on your head. Right. I wasn't having to tuck my sheets perfectly, and I would have gotten a whipping if I didn't. Right. But you were worried about disappointing him anyway, though. He was at every practice that I ever had, every game. I would always look off, and I would always see him. And that allowed me to go, okay, I can play great today.

So it's just how he showed... Ooh, I just got emotional. That just showed... He just showed me about loyalty. Like, he was just there. no matter what. So for me, I was playing for myself and for him. So I think there was a lot right. There was a lot more riding on it. And I think it had a lot to do with our connection because I always wanted that strong connection with my dad. I felt like I was always fighting

for that as a kid because I had an older brother. And my dad and him were chums. And I was always like, hey, hey guys, hey, me. Can I be in the group? Can I be in the club? Me? What do you think? And they were always like, get out of here, you idiot. So I feel like that was a connection that my dad and I had and I wanted to keep it going. And when I realized I couldn't, it was like, ugh. So I think it was a hard thing to come to because I realized that was maybe something that was going to separate us. How did you tell him?

I don't even remember. Really? Yeah. Because, I mean, it was over the phone. I knew it was over the phone. Right. Yeah. Well, because it was, it's interesting.

I mean, it wasn't like you quit or it wasn't like you got kicked off because you didn't love football. Right. or even because, you know, you were a quitter. It was because you had a goal and you, and it's very, see, being an athlete is a very specific thing. And we have, I think, like, especially in America, I don't think this is like a wrong philosophy,

but we do have this kind of thing. It's like built into our DNA culturally, right? Like if you work hard, you can do anything you want. You work hard. A lot of other cultures don't have that. A lot of cultures are like, you're too short, sit the fuck down. Like right from the beginning. They're like, oh, kid, get rid of that dream.

Yeah, like Australia. Who the fuck do you think you act? They're not, you know what I mean? They're not supporting you at all. And I do think we have like all the exceptions that prove the rule all the time. We've got like that every once in Wally, there's that like five, six, you know, running back in the NFL, that one guy. But I do think that there's something, I mean, I didn't do what you did, but I ran track in high school and I rode crew in college. And I remember specifically as a runner, like, I was just good enough.

I liked it and I was just good enough. And I knew that was all I was ever going to be. And that wasn't defeatist. It wasn't like, oh, it was just like, I'm really tall. And that gives me a long stride, but there's a lot of me to move down the track. You know what I mean? There's more of me than this little, like, 5-5-90-pound girl who, like, you know, when she jumps, like floats away into outer space.

And that realization wasn't depressing so much. It's just realistic. For me, it hurt me at first to go, oh, I'm not good enough to make it in this. And then I think I came to grips going, oh, wait. I'm so glad that I'm not in the NFL. I'm so glad that that isn't my life. Right. It definitely got me at first.

And I think that there's a lot of guys. I guess, you know, if you walk on the field, it's like, you know, when you progress as a football player, you know, you're the biggest guy in middle school. And then there's some bigger guys than you in high school. And then when you get to college, it's like the biggest fuckers from everywhere. And then imagine the NFL. Then it's even the bigger guys, the best of the best in college. Right.

And it's all the guys that were the best in their college get to the NFL, and they're just dwarfed. And you can't grow a foot. You know what I mean? Well, I mean, steroids really work. They work. Grow a foot out, I guess. Maybe not up. But it's interesting, I mean, looking back, you say you're happy that you came to that realization, but it was difficult for you at the time.

Yeah, it was. But I also, it gave me the chance to then be in college. Yeah. Because I was having 5 a.m. practices. I was having workouts. I was having study hall. I was having curfew. And all of my friends were like,

hey, man, come out. And I was like, oh, fuck you guys. So finally, when I got kicked off the team, I was like, yeah, hello college. So I got to play. Well, then you made a big pivot, though, because you said that you didn't finish because you decided to be an actor.

So what happened in that time that made you decide to go that way? I never knew that I wanted to be an actor. that's for sure. But I always had people telling me, like, you should be a model. You should be an actor. You should be a model. And my mom's friend, Tammy Darby, she was really pushing that on me.

She's like, you need to be a model. I'm going to make this happen if it takes my whole life. And I'm like, okay. So I saw a guy doing, he did Abercrombie and Fitch in high school. Oh, yeah. He had his picture was all over the magazines and all the girls loved him. And I went up to him and I said, how did you do that? I want to do that because all the girls like you.

Oh, yeah. So he introduced me to his agency, and my mom, my mom said, only when I graduate high school can I start modeling. So after I graduated high school, I had a baby pot-belly pig at the time. And so I had the pig in my right hand, a football in my left hand with my shirt off. And I sent that picture into the agency. And I called them and I said, hey, can I have a meeting? It's very Abercrombie, by the way.

I was like random pig in football. It wasn't a random pig. His name was Crazy Carl. I'm sorry. Very, yes. You were precious. He died of gracious death on the pig farm. he was not eaten.

Oh, oh, good. I'm glad. So we think. Yeah, well, hopefully. Did their parents say, oh, he went away to the magical pig fire? He's running through the fields with all the puppies and kittens that ran away. Oh, that magical pig farm. Oh.

So you send this photo in. So I became, I started modeling. Okay. And I was doing, like, I had this horrible excruciating Walmart picture that was up in every Walmart of me. Oh, I got Googling that immediately. Cowboys shirt on and I'm turning back looking over my shoulder with this, like, really, like, pierced look. And I'm like, so that was in this. So that was in this.

store and that was like my big break. My mom would go there and like take pictures of it and like it was so embarrassing. So going into college, I was doing these little model jobs and my junior year. Are you still in Atlanta this time? I'm still, I'm just south of Atlanta. Okay. At West Georgia. It's a little small like 10,000 person school. Cool. So I get a call from my modeling agency. There's a casting for a reality show. And this is when reality shows weren't big yet. And it was called, Are You Hot? And my first thought was that sounds like the stupidest fucking show I've ever heard. Sign me up. So I, of course, like I did, I went to my friend and borrowed his nice clothes.

I borrowed his, some really nice dress pants. I had this crazy nice shirt and this leather jacket. And I made the intention, I'm going to go in there and be the cockiest son of a bitch. So I went in there and I got interviewed and I'm like, yeah, you know, got girls calling me all the time. And I just played this very douchy person. And I made the show. So they flew me out to L.A. so that I could be on this show.

And in front of 500 people, I walk out on a stage. I've got sweaty armpits because I'm nervous as shit. Right, right, right. I walk out on the stage, and there's a hot or a not sign above my head, and they judge whether I'm hot or not. And I get the, eh, sign. It's like, oh, I'm not, okay, I'm not hot. I walk off the stage, and they air the show like a couple months later.

I don't even understand this show. It's the stupid, it's horrible. Lorenzo Llamas had a pointer pen, and he would judge you, like, whether you had cellulite or what he would like to buy your biceps. Oh, this sounds awful. It's excruciate. Awful. And it pains me to say, this is what brought me to L.A.

This stupid show. Everybody, everybody has their cross to bear. Everybody has their cross to bear. The choreographer of that show was like, you need to be an actor. You need to live in L.A. I can get you extra work. I can get you your sag card. I can get you an agent.

I can get you an acting class. You can stay at my apartment. I'm going to try to fuck you. All these things. He didn't say the last part. It was implied. I was feeling I was like, wait a minute. Where's the, okay.

So I, he called me multiple times. And finally, I was like, fuck, what do I do? So I called my dad. And I said, dad, this guy thinks that there's really a big opportunity for me in L.A. right now. I just finished my junior year. My dad was like, hey, well, let's drive out there in two weeks. And then I'll just fly home. So I called my grandma.

Your dad's awesome. I called my grandma. And my grandma's like, look, this opportunity might never come again. College isn't going anywhere. You can always go back to college. She's like, you need to go. So my whole family was like, go. So I went out there for the summer.

And my second day in L.A., I was in an acting class. I already had a print agent. I had a commercial agent. I started working extra work on Young and the Restless and Passions. Yeah. Oh, rad. So I was just off to the races. is like right out of the gate.

Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah. That's incredible. It also sounds like, like, I feel like a lot of people get here and like age and or non-aging aside have a really hard time figuring out how to start. You know what I mean? Like they just, I think for the most part, most people just don't know how to execute.

You know what I mean? They're waiting for somebody to like come and discover them and them walking on the Trader Joe's or something like that. I spent seven hours of days in Trader Joe's just trying to look really attractive and interesting. When is Steven Spielberg going to come here and pick up a bag of pirate booty? and then see me, my beautiful face. I'm walking around doing all my different emotional attributes.

I'm just brooding, brooding over the bee brittos. And it just seems like you got here and you just were like super effective. Well, you know, never having acted before, jumping into an acting class, I didn't know what the hell I was doing, but it felt amazing. I would get off the stage and be like, what is this feeling inside of me right now? Wow. So I started liking that. started taking multiple classes. And I was doing a scene study class. I was doing a cold reading class. I started doing improv classes. I was, I got so thirsty for it. After six months, I got my first

agent. And they, they put me in the developmental program. And they, they had me audition for student films. And I started booking student films. And like, okay, let's do co-stars. And I started booking co-stars. Okay, let's do guest stars. Started booking guest stars. So it was literally step by step by step, Yeah. That's impressive. And your agent had a sense of like exactly how to develop you or how to help you develop. Scott Wine. Okay.

At, uh, what was it? I forgot the agency. But yeah, Scott. Clearly not there anymore. Jesus. But Scott Wine was his name. He was so amazing because he saw something in me and he's like, look, let's go slow with you. We don't need to throw you into the shark tank.

Like, let's go real slow. And I really appreciate the way he handled that. And I don't know if that's the way that people handle that now because I don't think that anyone has patience anymore. I've never heard. at that before. I mean, I think he was specifically somebody who believed in talent and developed them because I think a lot of times agents will sign you and then just like they're throwing every piece of talent

they have at the wall hoping something sticks, but not really coming up with like a plan. Like this is how we're going to develop you know, you as an actor and get your toe in the water slowly, you know. Yeah, he sounds like he really he was great. I feel like coming out

to L.A., and so many people come out here and then you know, they end up running home with their tail between their legs and I didn't want that to be me. And I was so, I'm so grateful to have had certain people step up in my life and say, you know what, here's a door, walk through it. I'm going to walk through it with you. And that just kept happening. Doors just kept opening. I was also working my ass off because I have that athlete's perspective.

Yeah. I was like, I want to know everything about this business. I want to know everything about acting. I'm learning about psychology. I started jumping into therapy. Like I'm literally, I'm going to seminar. I'm doing everything that I possibly can while working at Red Lobster. which is its own kind of study in psychology.

But yeah, I mean, that was what I was going to point out was that what struck me was that you were training very hard. You were like, like an athlete. Like, I'm going to be comprehensively trained for this in every way, every way I can possibly think of. And I know that there are a lot of people, and people that I know have encountered where they like came here and they have a waiting, you know, they're waitering.

Waiting? Waitering, waiting. Waiting as a waiter. And, um, but they're not doing anything to advance their acting career. And then they're frustrated and nothing's happening. And I'm like, I don't understand how you don't see that if you don't do anything to make

something happen and that's going to happen. You know what I mean? Like it's not. Fuck it. Just go hang out of Trader Joe's. You never know. You never, Steven Spielberg loves a traitor Joe's, by the way.

Does he really? Which one? He doesn't, no, no. He does love Otto's tacos. He just gave some, he just did something where he said he loves to eat at his tacos. Okay. I have a friend who loves Otto's tacos. So I don't know, hang out of the Otos Tocos.

I'm going to start spouting that shit out to myself. And just eating a taco, like, with your biceps flex, you know. And so, but I think it would apply to anything you were doing, you know, if you were a writer or, you know, a painter or anything that it's not magic. I mean, a big part of it is just you have to execute constantly and try to constantly be, like, growing as an artist, you know, and you can't just do that magically. It's the same thing as an athlete. And I had a teacher once tell me, she goes, oh, you were an athlete. athlete, I'm not worried about you. Because you have to have that tenacity. You have to have that resilience. And there's times where I think the main thing that I learned through that is

just show up. Because there's times where I'm like, I don't want to fucking do this. Oh, I don't, like, I'd rather go hang out with my friends or, you know, I suck. What am I doing? No, show up, shut up, do the work and just keep going. And I think that's something that was like, that was a mantra for me in my earlier career. That's, it's so, and the other thing I think athletes understand perfectly is that every bit of effort doesn't translate linearly, like directly into result on the field, but it builds something, right? Like, I think a lot of times people are like,

well, is this really like going to get me a job? I don't know. It's just going to make you a better fucking actor, you know, and a more interesting person. And not even every class is, you're not going to kill it in every class, or not every monologue you prepare. It's going to be perfect.

Not every audition you do is going to go well. But even when you shit the bed, you're going to learn something from that too. And I think that's something that athletes understand innately. I actually did that on stage once. I shit the bed in class. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

I'm like, so method. Guys, this is going to take a minute. Okay, just a minute. This is how good of an actor I am. I can shit in front of a group of people. Don't watch, though. Don't look at me. Don't look at me.

Maybe I'll pull that one at the taco place. Stephen, watch this. Okay, not going to make poop noises on my own show. That would just be too much. Now, so you come out here and you have this kind of, and your father comes with you, and does he stay for a little while before he goes home? We stayed for the weekend. So we stayed in Orange County with I have a cousin out there,

and we went to all the bars and had a great time. And then he flew home on Sunday. And I had to drive that Sunday into L.A. And it was the longest drive of my life. Yeah. My lifeline just flew home. I'm 20 years old. I've got this piece of shit Z-54 Cavalier.

Like it's all banged up. I've been in multiple accidents. It's like this piece of shit car. And my car is full of everything that I own. And I'm driving towards my new life. And I'm just like, I don't know how to feel right now. I'm scared as shit, but I'm excited. I don't know what's going to happen.

It was a, it's those times, I think, in life where you go, wow, I did that. Yeah. Like, I had the balls to do that. So it's, it's, it's exciting even hearing about it. Yeah. I mean, sometimes the things that frighten you the most are the things that are exactly what you should be doing, you know. And that's one thing that I feel like I've always had. Even if I fall down sometimes and it takes me a while to get up, I've always gone straight at the monster.

If something scares me, I'm like, fuck I have to do that. Totally. Damn it. All right. Bring it on. Bring it on. Yeah, I know.

This is going to swipe my legs off underneath me, but I'm ready. Right. This is completely off-paced. When did you start snowboarding? I started snowboarding my freshman year of college. I'd go to Utah, snowbird. I love it. And I don't, I wrote all through high school and I don't really get that much of a chance

to do it anymore. Do you still go? I go. Got to protect you. Now you get to be an actual. I'm like, I've got to protect the face. Luckily, I've never been a big fighter. Never, because if I went to a fight, I feel like I would just be, like, just be seeing my eyes, like, through my hands.

I go, like, I'd probably say every other season. Yeah, yeah. I have friends who, like my best one from Great School, he lives near Tahoe, so he goes, like, you know, eight times a season. And then I won't go for two seasons. And then I'm just, like, a four-year-old when I get out there. But I love it so much. It's so good, just to be up on a mountain like that. And just to be breathing in that kind of oxygen.

And using your body in such a specific way. I mean, even not going to beat up skiers, but snowboarding is like such a full body experience. Yeah, skiers are a bunch of. Wham, wow. So I saw the little bit of stuff that I did read about you. I saw that you kind of did have that exact kind of path. You started booking little parts and then bigger parts and then bigger parts.

And because I don't have your CV memorized, I feel like the last ship is, oh, I know. I know what I was going to ask you. You have this like ongoing working relationship with Michael Bay. Yeah. Like he's put you in three projects I think, right? So tell me how that started. I've had to do some on. He was the choreographer wanting to stay at his house. Yeah. How did it start with? Oh, I had a, I didn't know I was auditioning for Transformers. I had no idea. Oh, tell me this story. This is so interesting. No clue. Secret audition. It was just an audition. I think it was called. I didn't know what the hell the title was. But I was like, what is

this. Oh, I can play this guy, though. Okay. So, wait, let me interject so people know. This is something that, I'm giving away secrets. In Hollywood, when they don't want you to know about a secret project, they'll name it something else. So I can say this now, and this will help reference what you're talking about. I moderated the Warner Brothers panel at Comic Con this year, and they were going to do a big suicide six reveal. And they didn't call it suicide six. It was called, and it was like a completely different name, and we were calling it like,

mayhem start or something completely and everybody was referring it to as this thing like it was this total code name and so when there's a big movie like this they'll code name the fuck out of it and they'll even write fake sides so they'll write something just representative of your character nothing relating to the story at all and then they'll put your name on the page so they know that you didn't sneak it to your friends that's when you feel really cool as a young actor you're like my name

my name is on the page yeah like they watermark it yeah they water market they're like I better not see Travis Ben Winkle on the fucking internet. You're done. So anyway, so you don't even know what you're auditioning for. I didn't know. And it's probably better that I didn't. Because if I knew it was some huge project, I probably would have shit my pants beforehand. Yeah. We know that's your special. That's my thing. I'm really good. No offense to anyone that shits their pants regularly. I know that's not an easy thing to go through in life. However you get down is okay with us. No judgment. So I went into audition and I just, I had a great time with it and they called me in to

go read with Michael Bay. And I remember sitting there. in the waiting room at Platinum Dunes in Santa Monica. Nick Cannon is there. Hillary Duff is there. And I'm thinking, what the fuck project is this? Yeah. And I went up there and he had me do the scene, the couple scenes, and he just wanted me to improv. So him and I start improvving together.

And we're improvving some, like, really offensive stuff about, like, women's periods. That's how he gets down. That is him. It was fun. And I got the job. And it was quick. I only worked for like nine days on the project. You do this.

Okay, so you get the project. And then when do you know what it is, when do you find out what it is? I found out after the audition. I'm like, oh, fuck. Because I called my agent. I'm like, this is something bigger than I think it is. Because why was Michael Bay improvving with me? Yeah.

Like, why? I knew quickly after that. Yeah. And so, you know, flash forward two or three years, I auditioned for Friday the 13th. Mm-hmm. And he's behind it. Like it's Michael Bay's executive producing. And for whatever reasons.

That's the one with Jared Padelecky, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's a good friend of mine. Nice guy. Sweet, super sweet guy. Muscular, dude. Like, give me some of those, you big mother bunker.

You need all of those muscles for yourself? I mean, you know, that nickname for a Mountain Supernatural, they call him moose. But he literally is moose. Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. Like, the sweetest, sweetest, sweetest guy. So that was the second thing that you did with him. The second thing, and it did really well.

And, you know, we would hang out at the, he came out for a midway party. And then at the premier because he was never on set for that. No, I can't. imagine because he was kind of an EP on that right bit. And we filled in Austin. Oh, that's nice. The best city ever. It really is.

I'm not going to fight you on that. It is completely excellent. And more excellent all the time. And I don't, anybody who's from Austin, who spends a bunch of time talking about how Austin's starting to suck, you're fucking wrong. Eat a dick. Eat a bag of dicks.

Eat a bag of barbecue dicks. It gets better and better. Wow, Barbecue. Austin. It just gets better and better. The best barbecue I've ever had there. The best drinks. It's like, there's a couple of places to avoid that have gotten a little douche

but I like I love it there like South by Southwest is so much fun. I've never been to a South by Southwest. Oh, it's so great. But it's always fun. I feel like Austin is just always fun, like always interesting and fun. And it's just beautiful. And there's Lake Travis there, so I kind of like it. So Gordial, there you go.

They named it after you if they didn't know it. So that's the second one. And then the third one is the last ship. It's the last ship. So it just kept, it wasn't something where like Michael Bay and I are like hanging out and like, I can't wait to put you in another project. No, it just kept happening where I was booking all the projects that he was EP. Right, right. So when he came to the last ship, I auditioned for it, and the tape went to him, and he was like, yep, this is the guy.

Maybe he likes you. The thing is, though, if you'll find a lot of artists, like Ryan Murphy does this. If he likes you, he continues to like you. You know what I mean? And I think a lot of times, if you know someone, you know their work, you know, they're going to deliver, they're kind of on brand for what you want to do, um, are a known quantity to you. And I also feel like, you know, when you find someone and you believe in them, you just keep wanting to give them breaks, you know, which I think is nice. It's nice. Hey, I'll take it. I'm not a bad person if you have. in your corner. I'm not mad at Michael Bay at all. Seriously. Tell me about the experience, because the last ship was, obviously,

about a pilot. It wasn't like a put series or anything like that. Where do you guys shoot it? We shot a lot of the pilot in San Diego, and then we went up to Smithers, British Columbia, to film. Ooh, smithers.

Yeah, we were literally in the Smith. It was freezing. Oh, no. And we got to, like, ride four-wheelers and shoot grenade launchers and, like, all sorts of cool shit. So for me, I'm like, this is the coolest job I've ever done in my life.

Yeah. I know the show, but I don't know it intimately, but for people that don't know, it's like, it's like a post-apocalyptic show. There's been some kind of terrible epidemic. And everybody on the show was on this aircraft carrier, so they kind of were able to escape, like, infection, right? And now we have to find the cure, save the world. Oh, that's pretty fun. And we're in the Navy. Yeah, so it's pretty high stakes, high action.

And also, like, what's interesting about it is, narratively, it's very contained. You're in this one space. So now that the show is in series, are you guys just on soundstages if they built out this big ship? No, it changes. We actually are very little on the sound stage. Like we're filming in San Pedro and Long Beach. We're going up to Calabasas.

We go to San Diego a bunch. We're all over the place. How is that production-wise? I sound like I don't know anything about the entertainment business. How long have you been in a way? How does that work when you? Okay. So, you know, if you're on a series,

sheets regularly. They'll typically kind of build a lot of stuff out just to save money and also just for efficiency's sake, right? Yep. And then maybe you'll be on location and you'll have to drive like 45 minutes or an hour. But it sounds like you guys, you're pretty far flung with your locations. They go big with this. I love it. It feels like we're filming a movie all the time. It's, the scope is so huge. And that's why it's such an I've done a lot of TV and it's never felt like this. We actually filmed like a movie too where everything's out of order. Sometimes we'll do, you know, we'll do episode one and then episode four and then episode two and then episode eight. It was like, what the...

Oh, that's wild. Yeah. So like, hold on in your fucking pants. Well, just also as an actor, like, where am I? Like, what just happened to my character so I understand how I should be feeling right now. Yeah. Yeah, that's intense. It's a ride for sure.

And it, I mean, it is very filmic that show. He thinks filmically, you know what I mean? And I think when you're on a one hour anyway, for the most part, the production experience on a one-hour show and the production experience with a film is identical. Only with TV, you're doing way more fucking work. Right. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I just, yeah, it's so fast.

Like, everybody I know who's, who does films. And they're like, oh, God, it was such a long day. We did two pages. I'm like, we did 14 pages today, you pussy. See, our show's a bit different because we do, we'll do like six to eight pages. Well, but it's technical. And I imagine there's a lot of, when you're doing stunts, that's a longer day. Yeah.

And the setups are so big. and some of our scenes are a fourth of a page. Right, right. But there are these huge epic scenes where there's a helicopter and like there's, yeah, there's a big thing. How practical is your show? Is it pretty practical? Like real helicopters, real things? We have the Navy supporting us.

So they give us all their stuff. That's cool. We get like all the coolest. All of our guns are just so legit. Our prop guys are in heaven. Yeah. Because they get to prop us with all this real shit. That's so cool.

And we get to be on the real Navy ship in San Diego and we have her badges to go on the Navy base. And how stunted is it for you personally? Like, do you do a lot of stunts? I do as many of mine as I can. Are they, are you fighting with him over a lot? A few times I have, you know, I had to like climb over the ship and it's like a 70-foot drop. And they're like, do you only get to go down three steps? I'm like, come on, let me just like go.

Let me go down eight steps. Exactly. Let my head at least disappear over the side. But they now know, like, the stunt coordinator will call me and he goes, we got a good one for you. Do you want to do this or should I prepare someone? I'm like me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. Yeah, that's so fun. So, yeah, definitely, I love doing my own stuff.

Tom Cruise, I think, was the one that him and Matt Damon have both kind of said publicly, like, people are just too sophisticated now. They know that they see immediately. You're looking for the errors. You're looking for the wig that they're wearing, or you're looking for the difference in body structure, whatever it is. You're looking for the error. And I think a lot of people watch movies looking for the fuck-ups.

Right, right. And even if you can't quite detect exactly when the fake guy jumps in, what you lose, I think, emotional. emotionally is like this kind of intangible through line where maybe it doesn't feel as urgent. You don't care as much because there's just something there missing. You know what I mean? Like it's just not as emotional. It's subtle too.

It is. But you've seen, okay, like do you remember the scene? It's a great stunt. I think they went over his back for part of it. But there's the one where in the second board movie where Matt Damon like jumps across the buildings and into that window. Oh, yes, yes. Yeah, it's like one of the great.

It was such a great stunt. And they just made a point of having that scene. scene that shot where you could see his face. It's like that's when you, this character that you care about, you know that they're actually in peril. And that makes the movie that much more like immediate. And that's when you trust the actor too. She's like, this guy's doing the real deal.

Yeah, exactly. That's when you really, I think you can really latch on to someone and respect what they're doing. Because I look at Tom Cruise and he hung himself on the side of a plane as it took off. Oh, my God, he did that. That's so fucking insane. Like, you just mad respect for someone like that. Oh, beyond. Beyond.

I mean, he's just so, he's just so. committed. At a time in his life when he's like the biggest star ever and he can just be like, you know, he could have a clone made of himself. Like he could pay to have one built. He could definitely afford it. He should totally do it. He should. I want to be the son of his clone in a movie. That would be so bad. Fuck yeah. If anybody could afford to do it. Now, I, um, you're on that show for how, what's your production schedule? Like six months? Yeah, six, seven months. You shoot through the, it's airs in the summer, so I'm assuming you shoot through the winter. Yeah. So we're starting.

week. Oh, you go back next week? Yeah, we go back next week and we'll finish in late April. Oh, man. Yeah. So tell me this. I know two things about you. One that I guessed and one that I heard. The one that I guessed was that I just heard you kind of talk and you use some kind of spiritual terms about your life and kind of reorienting yourself and thinking about the way that you move through the world. And then I think I heard when we were trying to figure out when to sit down that you were going to be going to Nepal? Yeah, we were supposed to go to Nepal. Okay. Our trip got canceled, actually. There was civil unrest. There was a new constitution that came out. This small little city that we were going to go, Dungadi, had a curfew from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. Anyone outside during that time would get shot. A daytime curfew. Yeah. Like how, where's the fun of that ship? Yeah. Seriously. So we had to postpone that trip. But I did go twice this summer to Malawi. And I got to build two schools this summer, which was the most amazing. So tell me about this. Is this something that you, like the trip to Nepal was that also going to be a,

like a work trip, like a school building trip or a resource building trip? So that was a three part thing. So last January, no February, we raised 100 grand. I brought a bunch of my friends together. We raised $100,000 to build three schools. And we sent 17 kids from Detroit that are on the verge of gang life that live below the poverty line, just come from really rough backgrounds. We sent those kids to go build a school.

I took them to Malawi this summer, which was amazing. It's so awesome. And my friends and I went earlier in June, and then my friends and I were going to go again to Nepal. And I'm making a documentary of the whole process called groundwork. And it's about how we can really make efforts to, like, change the groundwork and build the groundwork inside ourselves, but also in the grounds. So these kids that live in Detroit, I got to meet these kids in their families. And these kids started to do community service in Detroit. they're making, they're taking steps to make their communities better.

There's the houses that are boarded up that they're making more beautiful. They're knocking on doors and doing yard work in people's houses. Whatever they can do, they're working with homeless and veterans. These kids acquire a certain amount of community service hours. And then the organization's called Build On, by the way. And then they go, okay, these kids are ready to now go build a school in the redeveloping world. Where they go, there's no power, no electricity. They go into a village.

So we got to go into this village called Kauta And I don't know 200 people greet you When the bus pulls up They're dancing around your bus And they welcome you This is the first time I think a lot of these kids feel unconditional love

These people don't know us You know but we raised $30,000 because we're going to build a school with them That's going to change the generations of lives And the adults also in these villages get to go to school They get to learn to read and write And that affects the way that they're parenting

They can then read prescription labels. They can read street signs. They don't get finagled when they're buying stuff at the market because they know how to count. So not only do the kids get education, but the adults do too. And they welcome you into their homes. And we get to live with them. And you live under their roof and you participate and you build a school with these people. And it's this experience that just it's transformative on so many levels.

Because you're making friends with people that you never thought you'd be friends with. You know, people you see on National Geographic. You're like, whoa, wait, I'm actually living with these people, and we're communicating because we have translators for some of the time. Other times you don't, and you have to learn to communicate in ways. You're like, just human to human. Yeah, just gestures. Just gestures.

Yeah. You can draw, whatever you want to do. And so it really challenges these kids from Detroit to go out of their comfort zone. And I feel like these kids realized how similar their poverty is or maybe even how different the poverty are, but that they both are poverty-stricken. And I think what's beautiful about these trips is these kids from Detroit got to learn about family values that maybe they don't have at home. Because in these communities, family values, if you don't have a community, if you don't have a working family, you're not going to survive. And I think you really get a sense of community and togetherness, even though these people are so poor, they're happy.

And they're thriving and they're working together just for their basic survival instincts. and they teach us so much about how we overcomplicate things in our lives, how we take things for granted, how I can turn on the shower for five minutes before I even get in it. It's like, no, they have to go walk, get water, pump water, come back, heat up the water. Then I have a little bit of water to shower with. And that's every single day. So these people are fighting for their basic survival needs. And, you know, you come home from these trips, and it's a culture shock.

And reintegration is, it's really hard. Yeah. It's really hard to come back. into this world because you know you're a part of it and your sensory is overstimulated and you got all you're on your phone and your Instagram and you've got all these things that you have to do and you've got this own little bubble that's your car and your house and I have everything that I need. I don't need people like I can get by on my own and we miss that basic thing where connection is essential and to feel like you're in contribution to your fellow friends and your fellow man

you need to be in contribution. So these trips just they really reorient your mind and your heart and they just realign you so when you go back. home, you look at life totally different. And a lot of these kids, they now will write an essay based upon this experience. They probably get a scholarship to go to college. This trip will change their lives and how they go forward in Detroit from here. So it's this very dynamic service that Build On has created and sort of making a documentary of the whole process of this last summer. So it's been a crazy cool summer. It's incredible. Yeah. It also made me, you were talking about like the coming back and getting perspective on kind of what we take for granted here.

And I also feel like in the same way that like the contrast between, you know, your experience and like what you valued and maybe if someone had a lot more than you, what they valued. And then these kids were growing up in Detroit, which is, you know, I think starting to rebound, but still like an incredibly impoverished city, incredibly blighted. And those kids getting perspective on their experience and then seeing what, and now I'm not going to be dismissive of anybody's experience here, but what true poverty is, because like you said, even the poorest American for the most part still has access to fundamental needs

that people in other countries don't have. Like, even the poorest person typically has access to clean water in America. Has access to, like, sanitation, like toilets, flushing toilets. Electricity. Yeah, basic stuff that we take for granted here. And then you see, again, you get this perspective. Okay, like, this is what real poverty is.

Like, I'm, you know, and we have plenty of things. of hunger in this country for sure. But what we consider hunger is just such a much higher baseline than what hunger really is in a lot of other places. So it must be incredible for these kids to come back and then maybe be like, okay, not only do I not have had it as bad as I might have felt I did, but I've got different tools now to deal with it. You want to know the most heartbreaking thing. So I've stayed in touch with a lot of the kids and I was speaking with one of them and she was opening up to me about how she didn't want to leave Africa

because life was better for her in the village than it was back in Detroit. I was like, oh, I had no clue. Like you would think these kids would want to get back home to their lives and they were like, no, no, no, it's easier here. Because, again, there's a mom and a dad and there's family values. A lot of these kids go home and they don't have that kind of support.

Also, what's exciting about being in a place like that is that you really are of service, right? Like people need you, right? All of a sudden, as a kid, maybe you feel like you're being dismissed. Yeah, I have real value. I have something to contribute where home your parents are ignoring, you're not paying attention to you, or they're being abusive. And it's other place like you really, you're a star.

And I don't mean like in the trivial way, but like if you're helping to build something, like you just have your tangible contribution that you can point to. And what I like about it is your, what we do is we build the foundation of the school with these people and they finish the school as a community. They have to do it themselves. They have to want it. We're there to light the spark and bring all the goods that they need to do it. They're the ones that finish it out.

So it becomes sustainable change. And I like the kind of service where you go and you get your hands dirty and you leave your mark. And then that continues to grow once you're gone. It's this residual impact. Yeah. And it was actually through that time when I was, I decided to not drink and to not smoke and to get clear, that's when I started being of service in all sorts of small little ways in Los Angeles that led up to me being of service in this kind of way. So it's like that moment.

And I wanted to reiterate also about when I was, there's something about like, I almost want to tell all kids when they're younger, like don't fuck around with booze and with drugs. Like, don't do it because I did it. And it's working out and I've gotten through it. And I don't think it's held me back. And maybe it added some new creativity, whatever. I don't know what the best approach is to say like, kids, do what you want to do because you can get through it. But part of me wants to go, don't do it. I do. did. Don't go through, but that's me wanting to control these kids and thinking that that's probably best for them, but I don't know what's best. Well, you know, what's interesting is there's probably like a third, what is a middle way here, right? Because I mean, a big part of being a teenager, a big part of being an adolescent is experimentation, right? Like, no matter what I tell you about the fire being hot, you're still going to want to touch the fire on your own. You're still going to need to experience that the fire is hot, just because that's just the nature of like our particular

species, right? We've got to know. I've got to know. Don't tell me what to do. But I do think there's something in the middle which is just like, here's my experience, and let me tell you what I regret it. You know what I mean? Like, I wished that I, I feel like I lost time. Like, we're critical, valuable time. Now, I'll, and I'm telling you that I regret that. Maybe I don't sit around sitting, I don't sit around going, God, I really regret. Like, I've got all these regrets and I'm stuck in my regret because I think that's a waste of time. But to say, God, I really wish I'd had those years back. I really wish I'd been operating 100% at a time when I was operating at 30% I was fucked up all the time.

If I could go back, I would do it differently. And I think that's the point that I want to get across to kids that are, you know, that have the opportunity to experience all of these different things. Choose wisely. It's so hard, too, Travis, because, like, I will say that, like, I don't do anything. I mean, I have an occasional cocktail now, but none of the rest of it. I don't even smoke pot anymore because I dropped that years ago because I just felt like I could not be effective on it.

I was just like, all I want to do is just, like, eat like, cool-range Doritos until my mouth is bleeding. You know what I mean? They still make those? Yes, and they're delicious. But that's a vintage experience. I happened a long time ago. I remember getting in high when they first came out

and really just eating so many that I almost died. You know what I mean? That's just like that kind of like robotic. Like I can't not eating the chips. Roof of your mouth is destroyed. But I will see there's this weird thing on the other side where you were saying, oh, you came through it. Like you're only the sum of your experiences.

You know what I mean? And I don't think there's value in doing drugs and alcohol as an experience, but there is value in having experiences. Like, I don't know. Would you go back and not have gone to Germany with your friends in small past? Probably not. That was probably pretty neat when it was going on. I'm not endorsing hashies. But I am saying that, like, there's something about the general approach to life, like, trying to be as present as you possibly can, and then not holding, not beating yourself up for the mistakes that you've made. That's a biggie. Yeah. Like, that's, I feel like so many of us are so hard on ourselves.

And I, and especially in this business, if you're in some, some kind of creative business that's super intense. Like this is a, it's not an easy business to be in because you're constantly being rejected. You're constantly, you know, am I good enough? Am I going to be hired for this job? Am I not? Like, so you're swarming around all of these questions. So it makes you then be really hard on yourself because you think you have to be to be effective

to get through it. And I think there's a different approach to being creative and to being resilient. Right. Like how do we love ourselves through the process? Right. And I think we're told also constantly this business either explicitly or implicitly that the clock is ticking on and we only have a certain amount of time. Like, you're only going to get this much time.

You know, you're going to age out. There's somebody behind you. There's somebody behind you. Which makes you panic and be hard on yourself and be stuck in regret versus kind of knowing now this is super fucking hallmark card, everybody. But just no, sorry in advance. Get your pen and pencil. Write this down. Yeah, exactly right.

Turn this into a summy card that like, this is going to sound so stupid coming out. But I believe. Just that you're unique. Just that you are singular. You're a singular artist. and that regardless of what people are telling you about your value because of your looks or because of your youth or because of your body or whatever,

there is something very specific about you as an artist that nobody else can replicate. And so it's so much more important to be fully embracing who you are, trying to be the best artist that you specifically can be, and trusting that that will find a space. I think being a younger artist, a lot of people are looking for that value outside of themselves. and it's so easy to do that.

Like, oh, you approve of me? You like what I'm doing? Oh, okay, I can like what I'm doing. And I've fallen into that trap as well. And I think it's to find essentially that value inside yourself. And like you're saying, that uniqueness that we all have to offer, fuck what you think, fuck what you think. I'm the shit.

I'm a Ferrari. You know what I'm saying? I might be learning how to drive this damn thing, but I am a Ferrari. Right, right, exactly. And I'm the only, I'm a one-of-a-kind Ferrari, by the way. There's never been another one made. And probably some of that just comes from living your life, finding your resilience.

Like, you know, going through things that are painful that are difficult, failing. You know what I mean? You're lucky because I really think that being an athlete trains you to be resilient at a very young age. Because you are going to lose. I mean, athletes, we just are trained to push through loss. It's inevitable. Yep. Yeah.

And just to know that that doesn't define you, right? Even though lots of athletes, when they lose, lose their fucking minds. You know what I mean? It's not easy to lose. No, no, it's no fun. You know, it's no fun. But I do think that like if every time a football team lost or you lost a race, you were like, fuck out, I can't do this anymore.

You know, you'd never, you realize very early on as an athlete that that's just not going to work. I've got to be able to find a way to push through loss at the very least to not let it affect me. But hopefully to actually figure out what can I do differently. I mean, it's why you look at tapes in football, right? Here's how you fucked up in practice. You know what I mean?

And this is, and not like I'm trying to humiliate. you, but like, what can you learn from seeing what you did wrong? Robert De Niro's favorite word is refined. Refine, refine, refine, and we're constantly refining. If you're conscious and mindful, hopefully you're constantly refining and reflecting. So then you can then integrate your lessons that you learn. So it's this nice, it's this cycle. And there's one thing that I like to say about our growing, because growing is something

that we're always doing. We're always changing. So it's this idea of, you know, if you grow, you're growing in these, no one can see my hand motions right now. But it's this idea that you grow, like, like that in these revolutions and you never go down to the very bottom. Right. Kind of concentric circles. Absolutely.

So something where maybe you fall back a little bit, but when you grow, you move forward, it's further. Yep. And you always feel like there's times where you feel like you fall all the way to the bottom, but you really don't. No. And I think it's just understanding that that's the process of growth is that you have the few steps forward, a few steps back, few steps forward, and accepting that, it's like,

okay, this is just the way that it is. But you're interesting because, like, not everybody wants to grow. What? Really? This is something I'm discovering, and I think that it's from fear. Do you know what I mean? Fear affects people differently. For you, and I know for me, fear is a motivator,

and I don't mean a motivator to run away from fear. I run towards what I'm afraid of very actively. And I want to, like you said, I want to slay that dragon in the same way that you were talking about it. But I think for a lot of people, fear is an inhibitor, and it keeps them small. It keeps them doing things that they, have mastered so they don't have to fail, so they don't have to push themselves. This is not a

criticism, but I actually think that more people sit in that space of, look, I got my sweet spot, I'm pretty good at this. I never, you know, I've hit the top of the learning curve and whatever skill set I have, and I'm killing it. I'm just going to take this paycheck home and kind of cruise. I think that that's nothing wrong with it, but I actually think that that's the default, like, mindset for people. I feel like for me, specifically where I'm at my life right now, I feel like I've gone through life at 85% and I've done pretty damn well for myself. Like, wow, I'm successful and I've got great friendships and I'm doing good things for the world and I've got meaning, contribution and all these things. But I'm like, there's more.

There's more. Like, I want to focus on that 15% that I'm not living in. What do I have to do to live in that space? And that's the scary space for me. I'm like, fuck, this is uncomfortable. There's a lot of uncertainty. I really have to stand up in the face of like sometimes like not knowing. what the fuck is going to happen if I'm going to fall down and all these things. And I feel like

that 15% is where I'm focusing on my life right now because we're here once. I want to live, not only in the extraordinary life, I want to live, I want to live the best fucking life ever. Yeah. Because you only have the one. Right. So just no do-over. Whatever the hell it takes to get there is the way that I approach my life. And I think, I think, I think that everyone approaches their life like that. No, no, I really don't think that. And I'm not, I want to make sure that I'm stating for the record that I'm not. not, that's not judgment. I'm not saying that in judgment. I feel like if what you need is to be comfortable, then like that's what you should pursue. I find comfort, like drowning. Do you know what I mean?

Like suffocating. But I don't think everybody feels that way. I really don't. And it's just interesting because I feel like when you're in your 20s, you're just kind of like moving along and jamming and you're doing your thing and you're trying to like pursue your goals. And I think it's, you're like in an interesting place where you're like in this intense space of self-awareness. And I think, and like you said, and it's terrifying and you don't know what's going to happen and shit could go wrong. But for you, that's interesting. For a lot of people, that's terrifying and to be avoided. And I don't think everybody is moving through the world thinking like I want to constantly be improving. I just don't think that's everybody's thing. Maybe I'm too optimistic or something because I want to think,

everyone thinks that way. I think maybe everybody thinks that way in an objective, like in a... That would be nice kind of a way. But, you know, people got to like, I don't know, make macaroni and cheese for the kids and the lawn needs meowing and a bunch of other shit. You know what I mean?

Like, it's a delightful luxury, I also think, to be kind of, like, relatively unfettered and moving through the world kind of focusing on art. You know, it's a nice place to be because I don't think most people are. And that's why I remind myself a lot, like, have fun doing this, because I'm not stuck at a nine to five job.

I don't have three kids that I have to worry. But I do have this freedom and this luxury where I can, I'm doing the things that I want to be doing. And I think that's like you ask, what is success? Like define success. Doing the things that you want to be doing that, like, that you're really passionate about and being able to create your own schedule in a sense. And I think not a lot of people can say that.

And that's where I'm like, wow, really appreciate the place that I'm in because it's a good space. It's a really good space to be in. And it's exciting that you're spending so much of your time doing for other people. That's, that's rad. It's just rad. You know what? But it's selfish as fuck too, and I'll tell you why, because it feels good.

Yeah, totally. It feels full. I mean, I'm going to, I'm traveling to all these places, and I'm getting to learn about these different cultures, and I'm building schools with them, and I'm being a part of changing their lives. But my life is changing. It feels good to travel. It feels good to learn about these other people. It feels good to be in contribution. so selfishly, I started doing service because it was healing me.

Like, man, I feel like I now have value. I feel good about myself. Oh. And then it started becoming something like, whoa, actually, no, I need this to sustain me. And now it's just something that drives me. So it's been like this really interesting path through service, but it started off as something completely selfish. And sometimes it still is.

I know that if I go and like go feed the homeless or something, sometimes if I'm having a shitty day, I want to go find some way to be of service because it's going to make me me go, okay, it's going to bring perspective and make me go, you know what my life is, my life is pretty good. Right. Get out of your shit. So it just brings up the question, selfless, selflessness, like selfishness, selflessness.

I don't know. Are they to get? It's the same. Right. Two sides of the same coin. And you're making this film. And so you'll, will you wait until you get to make your trip to Nepal before you kind of finished shooting it?

You know, we, we were questioning whether or not to make Nepal part of the film. and because the trip got canceled and we're going to have to postpone it, nope, that's not going to be part of the film. We have everything we need. Right now we have our sizzle and we're just we're taking it around

and we're having some good meetings with it. That's exciting. Very exciting. Making art is exciting. It is. Yeah. You have a very happy look on your face. I'm happy for you.

It's different than just acting. You know what I'm saying? Because if I just did acting for, I don't know, 11 years religiously. Right. So it's nice to be creating in different ways and to be, you know, directing and then to be producing and to be all of that incorporating into service. So it's almost using art and creativity with service.

And so combining all the best things that you can have in life and using it as a platform to really create change. And I think it's to be a part of something like that is the expression you see in my face, that happiness of like, it's combining. all these amazing things in one freaking pot. Yeah. Okay. It's time for self-inflicted wounds.

Oh, God. Yes. You said you had a couple. Do you feel like you settled on one that you're excited? Yeah, so it's just telling a story that I'm embarrassed about? Just one where you're like, oh my God, I can't believe I did that. You said you had a few. Oh, my God, I have more than a few.

I've done a lot of stupid shit in my life. It doesn't. Like, I always tell people like... Okay, I'm going to tell the story. This is a really stupid one. I'm like super excited. I'm super excited. My freshman year of college, I happened to be dating the most beautiful woman on campus.

And in my head, I'm going, how did this happen? Like, every guy on the planet wants this girl. So I went on a date with her, and we went to see a movie, and afterwards we kissed, and it was like this kiss that I melted. And I'm like, this is the best kiss I've ever had. This is going to be my wife. So she invites me over to her dorm room to, like, hang out. So I invited my friend.

She had her friend over. beforehand I got so nervous. I decided to funnel eight beers. Oh, well, that's aggressive. I got so nervous. I literally was just pounding, not just drinking beers, I was funneling. That is aggressive. So I funneled eight beers and my friend was like, dude, you need to slow down.

I'm like, no, I got this. So we ended up going over there. I don't remember anything that we said. My friend said the whole time I was saying the most ridiculous things and he kept like putting his hands over his face going like, oh my God. We end up leaving there. She doesn't call me back after that. I call her, she doesn't return my calls.

So after that, I feel so embarrassed and humiliated. She lived across the way from me, across the dormitory. I would go at night, I'd go up to her place and I would like look at her window and I would knock on it and then I would run. And then I would go hide by in the bush to see if she would come outside. And I think I did that a few times. I don't know why, though. Why would I? Because you just wanted to see her.

You just wanted to see her, right? And I don't know what. You probably hadn't thought it all the way through. No, what a creepy fuck. So I literally would knock on her window so that she would come out so that I could gaze at her. And I think she, I don't know if she called the cops or whatnot, but I just remember, I did that a couple times. And then I realized my own creepiness. And I had to take a couple steps back and go, all right, this is not the way to handle getting into a relationship.

Right. Right. You were a bit lovelorn. Oh, my God. Oh. I mean, being loved Lord will. make you do the stupidest, like out, you just are outside of your body. Like, you're not even in there. You're just doing shit that you're like, anybody would be like, look at what's happening right now. Yeah. Oh my God. That still happens to me. Like, sometimes, like, I'll be, I'm dating

this girl right now and, like, a few things have come up where it's like, I went cross-side and I stumbled into a wall. Like, I feel like I'm not able to walk. I'm like, what happened to me? Why did I just say those things? Who am I? So I don't think that ever leaves us. No. It's, um, it's, um, It's so funny because I was telling you before he started that I told the story about how I liked this guy and when he finally liked my back was the same thing. I just got so drunk. I was just like, this is too many feelings. This doesn't make any sense to me. It's too crazy.

Yeah, and I wrecked it just the way that you did. So just you have company. I want you to know that you have company. I feel better. Yeah, feel a little bit better about yourself by feeling worse about me. That's how that works. That is how that works, right? You made more of a fool of yourself so I can feel better about me making full of myself.

Just for you so you could feel good about your own self. You're so giving. And it is so comfortable. comforting, although we all know this and I know this, and everybody knows this empirically, but it is so comforting to hear, because I think women all think that they're the only people that do crazy shit like that, but guys are always doing that kind of stuff. We might be even crazier, I mean, we just don't like to share it. I'm dead inside, so, yeah, the last time I had feelings was when I was 17.

So, I mean, I'm just like, you know, well, I'm not calling. If he doesn't call, I'm not calling. That's the end of that. I died a long time ago. The truth is you're nowhere near dead inside because even talking about me going to Africa, it's all like you're literally, all the emotions coming up in your eyes. It's so beautiful. You can tell that you're just a nice person. I'm excited for you.

Just philosophically, I feel like a lot of the things that you said are things that I think about all the time, just about just, you know, that life is finite and it's just so important to find things that imbue it with like real meaning and to not shy away from being brave, you know, being brave. And realizing also that we're much more powerful than we think we are, we can affect much more change. I mean, it's very easy and I am, I will pray to it all the time, like just feeling super hopeless. I think that's pretty common, especially with, you know, you look at the news and you just want to, like, run out of, jump out of a window.

So, you know what I'm just like, fuck this point. Literally, I have failed. You know you live on the first floor. Yeah, not going anywhere. Not going anywhere. I'm on the window. I'm just there. Hi.

I'm just on the street now. But that you can do real, tangible, good in the world, and that you're probably going to enjoy it much more than even all the people that are benefiting from what you're doing. You know? You know, I know that we probably have to go, but I had this meditation that I went to the sound meditation where this guy was playing music and he was improvving this piano riff as there was screens shooting up on a, or images shooting up on a screen. And you're supposed to close your eyes and just take the experience in, and take the experience in. I was in a room where I was with

my one-year-old self, my five-year-old self, my 15-year-old self, my 20-year-old self, my 25-year-old self. Literally, every five years, it went all the way up until I was 88. I don't know why. That's so interesting. I was like, am I going to die at 88? And I got to be in a room where I'm communicating with all these versions of myself and the 88-year-old version of myself looked me in the eyes and he goes, you loved way more than you think. Whoa.

So there's things that get in our way that tell us that we're not doing enough or we're not loving enough or we can be better. Whatever it is, we have this voice that tries to, to, I don't know, push us off of our center. It was just crazy.

Looking at the old version of me like that has lived my life telling me like you loved more than you think i'm like damn so i walked out of that meditation going like okay i'm doing i'm i'm i'm living a good life that's extraordinary yeah that's extraordinary god that must have been really amazing when it was happening to you that's the end of that conversation i don't think we're going to be able to top that um it was so really really enjoyable talking with you yeah this has been great my show yeah thanks for having me Yay. All right.

That was Travis Van Winkle, whose name is also, come on, adorable, and sounds as if he's going to come down your chimney with a bag of gingerbread cookies at the holidays. And by the way, if he came down my chimney with a bag of gingerbread cookies at the holidays, I would be stoked. Let's just get it out of the way.

That would be a welcome site on Christmas morning. That dude's den in your living room just with a bag of warm cookies. Looking like six feet of awesome. I actually think he's like six, four feet of awesome. Anyway, sweet guy and lovely and wonderful to chat too. And doing a lot of really exciting and wonderful and generous things with his life. And I hope you enjoyed that conversation. You know what to do.

Come follow him, friend me online and all of the social platforms that are available to you. Did I say that fast enough? Come follow me, friend me online on all of the social media platforms that are available to you. Tumblr, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, MySpace is. I don't know. It's not the seventh circle of hell, but it's probably around three. And come say hi by going to Growling Guy.com. Clicking on the envelope and sending me a letter for the all-listener questions show. Come say hi. Make yourself known to me. Make yourself known unto me. And I will do the same to you.

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