Girl on Guy with Aisha Tyler - girl on guy 206: bokeem woodbine

Episode Date: December 5, 2015

join bokeem woodbine of fargo and aisha tyler as they jam through loving punk rock, aimless days, magical nights, chasing your passion on foot, the fate of good fortune and meeting tupac. plus bokeem and aisha go back in time. girl on guy is fighting crosstown traffic.

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That's meundies.com slash Aisha. Check it out. This is Girl on Guy. Hey, everybody, this is Girl on Guy 206. Welcome to the show. It is a great show. I can't wait to bring it to you. You know, if you've been wondering what's happening with Courage and Stone, the answer is everything. We are in the middle of an approvals process with our grand and wonderful government. It takes a little bit of time. But it will be launching in the spring of 2016.

So ready your bodies for that. And if you want to know more, you can always follow me at the handle, Courage and Stone, on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram, where I'm posting about periodically. Obviously, I'm slammed, so not as much as I'd like. But as we get closer to launch, I will be posting more frequently and more frenetically about the launch of Courage and Stone. So you can follow what's happening with that project online, and it's going great. I've done lots of research, personal, delicious, yummy drinking research,

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you know him from that where he's playing a badass. I was saying the other day, well, you hear what I say about his character when we do the interview that I thought he was maybe like the Steve Bouchemmy of this season, but that's not really fair because Steve Bouchermy was kind of a bummling idiot in the original Fargo film, and this guy's a badass. I mean, I don't even know what parallel character he is in the original film, but he's amazing. And if you haven't watched the Fargo series because you're worried that it was some weird remake of the film and it didn't make any sense. It is both, it hues to the spirit of the original film and is both a total departure from the film. Omage and Born and New in the best possible ways that it's so worth watching.

I'll rave about it during the show as well because I really love it. Bocheme has been in lots and lots and lots of things, including the hip-hop classic juice, dead presidents, Crooklyn, the X-Files, the elevator, freeway, gridlocked, many films, life, 3,000 miles to Graceland, Ray, he's done a million, million things. I can't name them all, Total Recall, the host, Riddick. He's a really, really interesting actor and a really, really interesting guy, and this is a great conversation that I loved. We had it over beers, which is pretty much my favorite way to have a conversation.

And now it is coming to you. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Girl on Guy, 206, with the actor. Bokeem Woodbine coming at you, straight out of the sunfilled girl and guy bunker and right into your face. All right, we are cooking with gas. Check, check. Woo!

Bocheme Woodbine. All right. Welcome to my show. Thank you. Oh, I'm thrilled to have you. I'm thrilled to be here. Okay, everything is happening. Okay, so typically I started at the beginning with people,

but, and I will with you, because I just feel like you had such a, like an interesting and complex career. So I just want to start at the beginning. But right before I do that, I do want to say, I was just telling you before we got started, how thrilled I am about this season of Fargo and your character on it.

And it's so good. Are you having fun making that show? Well, you're done. You shot out. You're done. We wrapped out in May, the mid-May. I came back home, and I had so much fun. It was nerve-wracking to an extent,

I mean, because, you know, the pressure, you know what I'm saying? Right. Because the show was so kind of, I feel like I got a bunch of nominations for the first season. One. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah.

A lot of things. A lot of people. Oh, shit. I didn't have to get prestige behind that. And then they started breaking it down. I was like, oh, God. Yeah. You know, as if it wasn't challenging enough

to be the only brother on the show. Right, right, seriously. And also because people know that property so well from the film. Then you have this series, which is like a departure from the original story, but kind of in the same vein. And then you come in, it's a whole new set of character. is a lot of pressure. Without a doubt.

And I'm a Fargofile, you know, from the film. So, I mean, you know, I hold it in such high esteem. But just, if you don't mind me giving you a little bit of, you know, background as far as, like, how I got the gig, blah, et blah. When it ends up happening is I get the email for my agent, right? And it says Fargo. And then it says, my name, Bokeem Woodbine. And I had, like, a brain freeze or something.

I couldn't coalesce. I couldn't put it together. My mind literally shut down. I'm looking at it. It says Fargo. But then it says, Bo came one by. I'm like,

wait a second. I said, oh, this must be a mistake, right? And then I'm reading the audition sheet. And I said, no, this is, this is supposed to be... A brother. Me.

Like, you know, like, I mean, well, I didn't even know it was supposed to be a brother at first. I doubted that, too. Yeah. But I knew that it was clear to me. after looking at the, you know, the fact, it was clear to me that they were sending me this on purpose.

Right. You know what I'm saying? I said, okay, so they meant to send me this, okay? And then it was very limited material. They weren't giving out the whole script. Right, right, right. It was just, you know, very, like, limited, like two or three pages, right? Sometimes they'll even, I don't know if they did this, did they write some pages just for the read, but that weren't really.

They do that a lot, but this was actually the text from, from, from, from, from, you know, from the actual, you know, first, you know, how can I say? Episode. First episode, yeah. Thank you. A little hungover from the wedding. I love it. I love it.

Was that a wedding last night, y'all? You and I, you and I, I may or may not have fallen asleep on the couch last night after getting back from a party. So you and I are in the same place. Exactly. Precisely. So actually, it was episode two, to be precise. It was a typewriter scene.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so that was a text. And so I'm reading it. And it's so bizarre When you have no No really You know like context Right

It's just like okay What is this This is so bizarre And they meant to send this to me Okay this is wild So I'm looking at it And I'm looking at it And I'm like

Okay I guess I guess I gotta get busy So for three days I just locked in I dialed in I was so focused I didn't do anything But practice my lines And watch Kung Fu movies

That's great For 72 hours It was crazy. That's so great. And then, you know, it was time. Was that just a study break of the Kung Fu movies? Yeah, because my brain was like going crazy because, I mean, when you want something so bad,

sometimes you got to step away from it. Yeah, absolutely. Man, I can't just obsess over this, you know. So I probably slept maybe six hours and three days. Wow, wow. I mean, Fargo, you know, chance of a lifetime, right? Yeah. So this whole time I'm thinking, now, I think they really,

really, you know, they don't necessarily want a brother, but I'm going to convince them, right? And then when I finally got to the audition, I see all these different brothers I know, and I was like, oh, they meant to send it to me for real, for real. Okay, cool, wild, right? And the name, also because you read it, and, you know, it's obviously the context of the show Fargo, it's set in the Midwest, and it was a very Caucasian film. And the character's name is in particular, it doesn't read.

I call all my Irish friends. Yeah. For all my Irish friends, I was like, let me ask you something, man. Isn't Milligan a typically Irish name? And they're like, yeah, man. I'm like, okay, cool. I'm like, why do you ask? I'll let you know, I'll let you know.

Right, right. And so, yeah, all of that stuff was, you know, blow my mind. And then I went in there and I did my thing and the showrunner, Noah Howley. I didn't know he was Noah Howley at the time. He was just some cat in the room, right? And so he just kind of starts laughing. And he says, do it again. and have fun with it.

So I did again. I had fun with it, but I flubbed the line. I kind of like put the beginning of the line towards the end, and I just rearranged it. And typically in television audition, if you mess up a line, you might as well just get up and, you know, apologize for wasting their time.

Because on TV, they really, as you know, they really not suffering no fools. You know what I mean? Because everything, time is money, blah, blah, blah. Right. So I was like, there's no way this is happening. I messed up. So two days later,

I got an email from my agent and you know my wife says I fainted I didn't faint I didn't faint I was I was standing by the refrigerator and I just kind of leaned against it Yes he just took to relax and let it take it in

I was absorbing the fact that I got the gig so anyway you know I couldn't believe it I couldn't believe I got the gig it was just it was one of those moments I've had a couple of those moments in my career and that was definitely one of them And it was just a thrill. And then, you know, boom.

Now, I have two questions right out of that. The first one is, what other moments, and then we'll come back to them, but what were the other moments that you remember, like, historically, that where either was like, oh, this is something I really wanted it, and I've gotten it. No doubt. My first gig, strapped, I had been auditioning for a month. And that process was crazy because I knew nothing about it. I had no aspirations to be an actor.

It was like the furthest thing from my mind. I'm a musician, you know, so I wasn't even thinking about it. And my buddy at the time, he, you know, he lucked out and found him a rich girlfriend. On the upper east side. You know what I'm saying? Hello. And so, you know what I mean? Hello, hello, hello, bonjour, right?

And so, and so her place became the headquarters, you know what I mean? Absolutely. And I mean, she had everything. She was a little older, so she had plenty of dough and whatever we wanted. It was just like, you know, you guys want pizza? You know, you guys want to play video game? Oh, how fun. It was insane.

I mean, it was, he really came up, right? So anyway, after like a month, going back and forth and auditioning, I was at the headquarters. And we're hanging out, and the phone rings. And somebody says, yo, Bo is your mom. And I was like, first of all, how did she get this number? I'm thinking, and second of all, I'm thinking, oh, this must be a disaster. Right, something terrible has happened. This has got to be really bad news, right?

So I'm like, Mom, what happened? And she goes, you got the part. And I said, what? She said, you got the part. I said, I got the part. And I hung up on her. I got the part. I got the part.

Yo, fast forward to 19 hours of madness. I mean, we went crazy. Right. Jumping around. We were bugging out. Forrest Whitaker came by. He was a director. He came by and hung up.

out with us, you know what I'm saying? And we were a little too young for him to hang out. So it was like, he hung up for like three or four hours. He was like, all right, all right, guys. You guys are bouncing off the walls right now. I just wanted to congratulate you, but you know, I got to go. And I'm an adult, you know. That was 19. So, you know, we broke dawn. We hung out to probably nine and it was madness. We just couldn't believe it. And it was so thrilling. It was like, I will never forget that. Yeah. Oh, that's lovely. Yeah. Now, I, I, Before we go back and talk about the beginning, the other question I had for you was,

I do remember, and I'm not name-dropping, but just for context, last year, or maybe it was earlier this year, I saw Billy Bob Thornton at a party, and I was asking him about what it was like to shoot the first season, and he was saying it was butt-ass cold, and, you know, like, wherever you guys,

wherever they shot was, like, frigid, it was kind of like Northern Alberta or something like that. So where did you guys... Calgary. Okay, so that's, by the way, that's where they have, like, the Winter Olympics. It's like a frozen. They're quite proud of that. They're quite proud of the fact that, you know, we had the Olympics in 88, eh?

It was a long time ago. I don't want to bust their bubble. I'm like, oh, wow, deep, deep, brilliant. Nothing else has happened there before or since, but it must have been, like, frigid. You know what? This is the crazy thing. For whatever reason, I like to think I brought the heat. For whatever reason, it was one of the mildest winters they ever had.

I mean, and years. Okay. And so the problem became, where do we get some snow? Right, because it, I mean, that is a tundra-esque show. I mean, it's really, it pivots around that. Indeed. And it's like really almost a character. Yeah.

The snow is a character on the show. And, you know, so they were freaking out trying to think about where to get the snow. And I didn't make it any easier on them. I was just like giving them a hard time. Like, so what we're going to do about this snow situation? You know, they were mad, like, don't yell at the talent, you know. Right, right. But, yeah, no, I rubbed in a little bit.

But when it up happened is they were stealing snow from the Revenant set because Revenant was shooting out there. I don't know if we're supposed to disseminate this intel. This is great information. They were stealing snow from the revenue set. I love it. So they would go up the mountain and, like, load trucks with snow and just, like, dip out, you know. Wow.

So, yeah, we stole. some snow from the revenue set. This is how we get down in Hollywood. It is, yo, we got to make it happen. It's Fargo, baby, you know. Was it an adjustment for you living up there? You know, look, I've been on assignment.

You've been on assignment many times. This particular one, the challenge was my own mind, really, because I really, really put a lot of pressure on myself in addition to, you know, the obvious precedent that, you know, the prior season has set. So it was really, really, really, like, heavy on my mind. You know, so it wasn't like altitude or weather or climate or food or any.

Sometimes those are the things that can be challenging. That wasn't the issue. It was just kind of like, you know, the pressure I put on myself to what to perform. Yeah, yeah. It's people out there who are listening, it's just a great, it's a great season. It's a great performance. and what's exciting about it is that, well, there's a lot of things. I'm really enjoying watching this character that you created,

which just feels like really interesting and new and textured. And I was trying to describe it to somebody, and this is too glib, but it was helpful for people who hadn't seen the series. I said he's kind of like the Bouchemmy character, if the Bouchemkeme character was cool and had his shit together. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Because he's like the enforcers.

but he's like, it's very, and what's great about it is everything like Fargo and nothing like Fargo. You know what I mean? Wow. It has like the flavor of the movie, but it's, I don't know, and because it's whatever, 12 episodes, 13 episodes, it's like just like thicker and more lustrous and it. It's really, this is a great deal. Okay, I'm done rhapsodizing, but I really love it. It's really wonderful. I'm so glad that you dig it.

Yeah. You know, so much work went into it. All the actors were just like bloodsweptain tears. It's an insane cast. The cast. Love me some Gene Smart. Love me some Jesse Clemens. You know what I'm saying?

Rachel Keller's coming up, keeping eye on her. She plays Simone. My man Jeffrey Donovan is doing this thing. Ted Danson. Ted Dancing. Patrick Wilson. Everybody is just like, you know, just. Oh, and that adorable girl who has a, she was nominated for Tony for once.

Oh, Kristen Miliot? Yeah, it's a really, I might be mispronouncing her name. I think, you know, Christian Miliotti is right. I know that's right because we had her on the talk. Oh, okay, cool. and I had to practice. So, yeah, it's a great season. So now we're going to do the beginning.

So where are you born? I was born in Boston. A lot of people don't know that. I didn't move to New York until I was seven. Oh, wow. So I was born in Boston. Southend Boston. Southie. You were born in Southie.

That's crazy. Do you remember it? Oh, quite vividly. People who don't know about, and I am not from Boston, but I have friends from Boston. You know, Southie is kind of infamous for being like a rough Irish neighborhood with a lot of racial conflict, a history of racial conflict. Without a doubt. But you might have been too little, I guess, to

experience any of that. What do you remember about it? Well, I wouldn't say I was too little. Most people lose their baby teeth naturally. Mine got knocked out by some racist Irishman who thought it decided would be funny to throw a frisbee at my face. Jesus Christ. How old were you? I was probably like

four, four or five. Oh, my God. Yeah. So, yeah, no, unfortunately, for whatever reason. I think it's just it's typical of a lot of neighborhoods. It's conflict over the lower income

wage earning folks who, you know, they beef over these jobs that aren't necessarily very lucrative, but you know what I'm saying? People need to feed their families. Right. But I never really understood on a logical level how people with the history of oppression, like the Irish,

Because I have a lot of Irish friends, you know what I'm saying? And, you know, I understand a little bit about the history. You know, they were brutalized by the British. Oh, terribly. I mean, it was really bad. And I never understood how they could not, or rather, let me put it another way. I never understood how they could try to visit that same type of brutality and racism on others when they had suffered the same thing.

Right. Themselves. Right. But, you know, racism doesn't make sense. It doesn't. Racism doesn't make sense. That makes sense. At all.

And then, you know, there's that thing. I think there are two things that play there. There's the one of like, there's a word for it or a term for it. I don't know what it is, but it's like when someone's hazed. And so they haze. Do you know what I mean? That kind of psychology where I've brutalized it. Now it's my turn to get a little payback.

Yeah, even though you, you know, you had nothing to do with my own brutalization. Right. And then I also think that there is, like you said, almost a manufactured conflict between two groups of low-income people where they feel threatened by the other... Really, the other group is not a threat, but because their position is so minimized and they can't really affect

the group that's oppressing them, they lash out at the people around them. Well said. Well-said. And it's... I mean, it was just such a manufactured conflict and it, you know, through busing and everything that happened there with... But I, you know, I remember, like, the stuff around gangs in New York

where, you know, you had one influx of immigrants, right? And then when the next influx came, the previous immigrants were like, you can't take what we've, you know what I mean? And so you had this thing where you just people keeping themselves low because their conflicts aren't real, right? It's all imagined. And it's passed down from father to son and from mother to daughter and so on and so forth. And that's a very good point.

Basically, I look at it like this. It's people who are scrambling to get crumbs from the master's table. the so-called master, you know what I mean? He throws a little crumbs here and there every once in a while and watches people scramble to fight for him. And, yeah, no, so I've observed it, and I've done my due diligence as far as stunning history. And that's what I see repeating itself all over the world.

All over the world. Yeah, we'll get it right one of these days. We're working on it. You know, it's a slow crawl forward, but we're headed in that direction. I got hope, and I wasn't always hopeful. Yeah, I struggle with that sometimes myself. You know what I mean?

Like, I think sometimes you can get in a really, like, a state of despair. And it's hard to see that we have made so much progress, you know? And we have. But there's a, with all progress, just a backlash. And I think that's, you know what I'm, yeah. And I also think where we are right now, people are like, oh, so many terrible things are happening. I'm like, you know, so many terrible things were always happening. We're just paying better attention.

I like how you put that. We are. You know, we got the cell phone cameras out now. You know, the shit was always happening. We just have any evidence, you know. Dig it. Right, right, right. When you moved, so you did have these experiences.

Were you happy when you moved away? Were you happy to move to New York? I had nothing to compare it to. And I remember getting into a Port Authority and, you know, walking through Times Square when 40-duce was really 40-duce. Right, right. And that was a shocking, shocking, you know, image. I mean, like, you know, I couldn't take it all in. It was too much.

It was literally like overwhelming, I guess is the right word. You know, the neon and the people and three-car Monte and the junkies and the hookers. Yeah, that was old, old 40s, old time square. And I'm eight years, seven, seven years old. I'm looking at breastlesses. And I'm like, what the? It was just, it was like mind-blowing, you know? And, yeah.

I grew to love it. I grew to love it. Did you grow up in New York on the island? In Manhattan. Wow, okay. Yeah. Harlem. Okay.

We were both of your parents? No, my mom and dad, you know, they didn't stay together too long. So it was just me and moms. And, you know, she fought a good fight. Just the two of you? Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah.

Wow. And so, you know, I observed the goings on. And it was very interesting. I'm not going to lie, I wasn't, I wasn't very tough at seven years old, you know. Who is anyway at seven? Nowadays, I know some. With some gangsters second graders. Nowadays, I know, I've seen a couple of pretty tough seven years, but I wasn't one of those dudes, you know.

So it was a learning process. I had to learn, I had to learn some new things, you know, because I grew up in a tough town, but New York compared to Boston, just worlds apart. Like Boston was tough in certain ways, right? But or at least South End was, but New York was like, you know, like times, you know, to the third power. I mean, it was just a completely different thing. So little by little, I started to adapt and acclimate and understand things. How to move through that world in a different way. Yeah. You, you're living in Harlem and you're with your mom. And you mentioned earlier that you were a musician.

So I wonder, like, what your artistic life was as a kid. Were you an arty kid? Were you thinking about being a musician even then? At 12 years old, I got bit by the guitar bug. And Chuck Berry. How did that happen? I have no idea. It's the strangest thing.

You know, it was the strangest thing. Chuck Berry all of a sudden just loomed large. Like, my mom was like, you got to get hip to. to the origins of, you know, popular music and pop culture. And it always goes back to the blues and blah, blah, blah. And she was indoctrinating me into, you know, different things, you know. And all of a sudden, for whatever reason, I saw Chuck Berry. And I said, who's that?

And she was like, that's Chuck Berry. He started rock and roll. And I was like, let me hear some of that, you know? And it's just something, just like a switch, just click. And I said, whoa. And she said, you know, if you really, really want to, you can learn how to play guitar too. And I said, you think so? And she was like, yeah, yeah, of course.

And she bought me a guitar. And she bought me an acoustic. And I used to sleep with that day. So I just fell in love with guitar and rock and roll. And I never let go. Wow. You're growing up and you're playing guitar. Are you teaching yourself?

Are you taking lessons? Yeah, self-taught. My mom bought me some book, and she said, bong. This is how you learn how to play the blues. It was like a blues book. Bong. This is how you learn how to play jazz. It was like a jazz book.

It was, you know, bong. So, you know, I would just practice my scales, three hours a day, every day. I didn't do good in school, but I was committed to a couple of things, lifting weights and practicing guitar. I was very faithful to those things, two, three hours a day, every day.

Wow. Yeah. You know, it's interesting because, you know, like the idea that like whatever you've become, you're passionate about, you're able to really create discipline around. I had Tom Morello on the show, and he was, yeah, and he was talking about that same kind of discipline with his guitar playing, that he had to practice for four hours a day without fail, even when he wouldn't go to class, would do his homework, anything else, he had to play for

those four hours, and he sometimes didn't go to class, you know what I mean, didn't do all, every of the, but that love of music was like such a driving force in his life. But it sounds like you weren't as focused on school. It wasn't as important to you. And, you know, it's interesting because just fast forward, like, just to give you a little bit of context, I did terribly in high school. But I did. I did terribly. But I got my GED. I did so bad in high school, in fact, that they said, look, not only do you have to come back and finish your senior year, you have to finish half of your junior year.

Oh, gosh. I mean, it was just awful. But when I got my GED, I went to City College in New York, and I took sociology, psychology and English and got three A's. Oh, wow. In college courses. So it's not lack of scholastic altitude. I just wasn't interested in the way they were teaching.

Or lack of discipline because you were so disciplined in these other areas of your life. Do you know what I mean? That was the thing that was I was sort of marking on like that, you know, when you're passionate about something, then that discipline is very natural. You know, it's a very natural aspect of who you are. That's a well-said statement. Yeah, absolutely. It becomes, it doesn't even feel like a, um, uh,

homework. It's just like, I guess similar to what Mr. Morello said, is like something I had to do. And it was very interesting. I think about it now. I don't know if I'll ever get a chance to play music in front of people like the way I want to, but it's okay because playing music kept me out of so much trouble. Did it? Yeah. I grew up in Harlem during the 80s, man. So it was like, you know, crack and AIDS were like a pencer movement. And they were just trying to destroy you, man. You had to really watch your step. One false move, man, and that's it.

So staying home, practicing my scales and writing music, and I was playing in bands and stuff like that, that really, really, I think it saved my life. Wow. Yeah. So it's lovely to hear. Just like I think the older I get, the more I get excited hearing about other people who are passionate about art. I don't know. Like, I'm always

really touched by that. You know, it's because there's something, you know, it's ephemeral, right? Like, it's something you're pursuing just because of love, you know, not because, oh, it's going to pay or it's going to do this. I mean, the pure love of it is what drives people. You know, you hope you

get paid, but you know, you don't know if you will, you know what I mean? It's not like trying to get your accounting degree where you're pretty sure it's going to pay off for you one way or the other. So you're this musician and you love music and you're writing and you're performing in bands. But you said you got this first role at 19, so I wonder what was it that drew you into acting? Oh, I lucked out. It was a strangest thing. I wanted some money for a tattoo. And I needed $75, right? And it's

interesting. It was one of Cypress Hills' first, like really, really big tattoo artists. And so, you know, my buddy's like, yo, I know this cat. He's from L.A., but he's cool. You know, the tattoo shop wasn't good. I'm 17. They're not going to hook me up. Right, right, right, right. They're not going to give me a tattoo. No.

Even in New York, they got some standards. So you can't go into the tattoo shop, but I wanted Africa on my arm. And so I needed some money. And my mom said, she didn't know I was going to get a tattoo with the money, but she was like, keep going on about this $75. I don't have $75 to get you, but here, to give you, but check this out. And she opens up, she didn't say like that, that's my interpretation. But backstage magazine on the last page, they used to have open calls and, you know, extras auditions or extra, you just show up, maybe you could be an extra, maybe not.

So anyway, make a long story short, she's like, go to this extras casting thing if you really want this $75. And I went and Jackie Brown was there. And Jackie Brown, for people who might not know, she was so instrumental in kind of like the nouveau black exploitation era in the early 90s when they really started coming out with a lot of black flicks, casting a lot of brothers and sisters in film. She started so many people's careers. Wow. Yeah. And so she was casting juice. Oh, God.

Yeah. Wow. And so check it out. So I used to have dreadlocks, right? And so I went to the extras thing. She was like, okay, show up at this date and time. I'll never forget this. And I went to Harlem, and this was a part of Harlem I wasn't familiar with.

So, you know, I'm... You're like way up there. I'm good to go, and, you know, whatever. So I go to the thing, and everybody's looking at me kind of funny. And I'm like, why is everybody looking at me like this? You know what I'm saying? Haven't you ever seen a brother with draft? But everybody's looking at me.

And what I found out later is people used to say I resemble Tretch. But I didn't know who trech was. Oh, from Noddy by nature. Okay, yeah, yeah. I didn't know trech from from, because the song wasn't out yet. Right. And, you know, I had no idea who they're talking about. Right, right, right.

And so they said, listen, we want you to be a stand in for one of our actors. I was like, standing. What does that mean? And they're trying to break it down. I was like, look, am I still getting paid? Exactly. Yeah, you're going to get a pay more. More, yeah.

Yeah. And I was, okay, cool. I'll stand in. More pay, more work, more days. I'll stand any way you need to, you know. So, you know, so I was Tretcher's standing. And I'm walking down the street wearing Tretches, you know, a wardrobe, basically. I'm walking down the street and I hear, yo, Tretch, yo, Tretch, and I'm like, you know, what are you talking about?

And somebody taps me on his shoulder. I'm like, you know, what? And then it was Tupac. It was Tupac. And I turned around, I was like, what, man? Because I didn't know he was Pock at that time. It was just some dude pulling on me, right? And you're young, you're 17, right?

I was 17. So I had no, you know, I was a little rough around the edges. So, you know, so he was like, oh, man, my bad, my bad. You know, I'm sorry. And I was like, yeah, I ain't, whatever, man. And years later, we laughed about that. Yeah. Years later, me, Tretch and Pock, like, laughed our heads off about it.

Because Tretch was actually, he wasn't on set that day because he was recording OPP. Wow. You know what I'm saying? He's recording the first naughty record. Wow. So, anyway, make a long story short, I finished my day as the state. standing and I got my dough and Jackie Brown was like, do you mind if I keep your information? And I was like, yeah, sure, no problem, whatever it is.

You know, I'm a number, blah, blah, so a year and a half later, I'm 19 years old. I'm a bum. I'm basically living off my mom. I'm working odd jobs. I'm just, I'm not pulling my weight. I'm not, you know, I'm not really, you know, I'm not doing what I'm supposed to do. But, you know, it was hard to get a job back in those days, especially when you mess up all through high school.

So anyway, the phone rings one day And me and my buddy are hanging out And, you know, I'm not gonna lie We were high, we smoked a couple of joints You know, the phone rings And I hear his voice And she's like, hello And I'm like, hello?

And she's like, hi And this is embarrassing But I thought it was one of my mom's friends And my mom, she had some very good looking friends So I was like, hello? And she was like, hi. I was like, you want to talk to my mom? She was like, no, I want to talk to you.

And I was like, what about? Right, I'm getting all happy. And she was like, Joaquin, this is Jackie Brown. I was like, straighten up, straight enough. Yeah, well, yes. Would you like to come down to an open call? And I was like, open call, what's that? And she was like, basically, you come down and you just kind of cold read and Blase

Blonde, she's breaking it down. And I looked in my pocket and I literally had two tokens, one to get down there and one to get back. And I'm debating it. And I'm like, hold on the second. My buddy's like, who's that? I was like, this woman talking about some casting thing for a movie or something. And he was like, you should go to that, man. And I was like, yeah?

He was like, yeah, man, you should go to that. And I said, yo, is it cool, you know, if my friend comes? And she was like, yeah, yeah, whatever. Yeah, yeah, bring them, no problem. So I went down there, and it was like a cattle call. It was like 100 people in the room. You know, it's an open call. How can I possibly?

Yeah. It was like, there's no way and what's going on. And she saw me and she was like, hi, do you remember you? I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I remember you. And she's like, okay, I want you to read this, but I want you to pretend you're this person. The first time I'd ever seen a script. She's like, I want you to pretend you're this person. And I was like, so what do I do?

She's like, say these words, but say it the way you think he would say it in real life. I'm sorry, I'm getting choked. That was crazy. So I started saying the words, and then she's just smiling, and it was the craziest thing. She's smiling and smiling and smiling, and I'm high. And I'm like, what am you smiling about this day? This is a bizarre day. I thought I was going to get some affection from one of my mom's fine friends.

And now I'm in some strange place in Midtown And this woman is just smiling I mean it was just bizarre I was like man this makes no sense right And I was like so what's up She was like okay this is what I want you to do I want you to get by yourself And I want you to work on the words

And so there was nowhere to be by myself The room was full of people right So I went into a corner I literally went into a corner and just, you know, worked on it, worked on it, worked on it. Fifteen minutes later, I'll come back, and she says, is you ready? And as corny as it sounds, I literally said I'm as ready as I'll ever be. And we walked down a long hallway, and we walked down a long hallway, and there's a door,

and she opens the door as far as Whitaker. Oh, God, this is the best story. I know it's not over yet, but I'm just enjoying it so much. It's crazy. So I loved his performance in Bird, you know, because he played Charlie Parker and I relate to music and blah, blah, right? So first thing I said, I said, hey, man, you're bird. Forrest is a very beautiful, great cat, but he's also very stoic at times. Yes, yes.

And he's interior. He's very interior. He's right there. He said, oh, well, yes, I guess I am. Right? And I was like, I'm looking at her and she's smiling and there's bird. And I'm like, yo, this is crazy. What's going on, right?

So we go in the room, me, Jackie and Forrest, and she says, read. And I read the lines. And he just paused and looked at me for uncomfortably long time. And she's smiling. And he's just got like this nondescript look on his face for, I mean, it had to be probably 30 seconds of him just staring. And she's not saying anything.

And I'm stoned. and he's just looking at me and I'm like, yo, what the hell? I feel like I'm on another planet and so I'm like, this makes no sense, right? So I'm like, okay, what's up? You know? And then he says, Jackie, could you leave us alone for a minute?

And she says, yeah, yeah, sure. So she leaves the room. And he looks at me and he goes, come over here. And we walk over a window. And back in those days, you could play chess on the street in Midtown and Tom Square and stuff like,

you know, you had chess table set up, it was legal. was no problem. And he's got an elevated position, and he's looking down at this chess, you know, tournament, basically going on. And he says, this cat always does, like, you know, I still don't play chess,

so I'm just kind of like paraphrasing. But he said, this cat always does like rook to night four or something like that. But I can beat him. And I'm like, okay. And he was like, do you smoke weed? I was like, what?

No, man. What are you talking about? That stuff's bad for you. I don't smoke weed. We eat. come on. Are you kidding me? He was like, do you smoke cigarettes?

And I was like, yeah, occasionally. He's like, because you got a really good voice. And I'm just wondering if me, it's from the weed or the cigarettes. I guess it's got to be from the cigarettes. I don't know what you mean, man. And then he literally, without looking at me, looking out the windows still, he says, come back next week. I said, okay.

And I just kind of backed out of the room. Right. You know, I just backed out of the room. And then I'm walking back down the hallway. And Jackie says, what did he say? What did he say? And I said, well, he says, come back next week. And she's like, yes.

I'm like, what is going on? And she's like, you got to come back next week. I was like, okay, I'll come back next week. So next week turned into the next week, turn it in next week. So, you know, I went back, you know, a couple times a week for about a month. And every time I went back, it'd be somebody different in the room. And I'd be like, oh, man, who's this? And he'd be like, don't worry about it.

And it's like one of the heads of HBO. Right, right, right, right. Like, who's this? He'd be like legendary cinematographer. You know, like, I mean, I know now who they are. Yeah. No, but I mean, this is your first experience, yeah. You know, and it was just so bizarre.

I was like, so, so, so what's up? He was like, just do what you did last week. You know what I mean? He coached me through the whole thing. Wow. And sure enough, after a month, I got the gig. That's such a great story. God, that's incredible.

And now you're in this whole other world, right? That you're introduced to just, purely in the audition process, right? It wasn't something you aspired to do. You know, you fell into it, and then you had this beautiful, like, chaperone to kind of walk you through. Guardian Angel. Then you're on the set of this film, strapped, right? Strapped. And are you afraid? Are you excited? I mean, you've never done this before. Yeah. Are you kidding me? Yeah. I started getting, like, really, really, really inspired. Yeah, yeah.

And he was there the whole time. So, you know what I mean? And he's an actor, so he's going to be so kind. Oh, man. I'm sure he remembers what it was like his first time. So he's giving me all these stories and breaking down this, that, and the other, you know, the semantics and blah, et la. And he would tell me, listen, I don't want you to think too much about how other actors

do that thing. I just want you to be a side. Like that was important to him. He was like I really want you to be yourself. I don't want you to You know kind of glean Too much from the other actors These guys are professionals. They've been doing it forever. They have their own style I really want you to to imagine how you would feel And under these circumstances

And the interesting thing was we shot a lot of it in Jefferson Projects which is in Spanish Harlem where my grandma lived Like it was bizarre like in the same same projects that I remember growing up around grandma. It was like, wow, this is really, really, really weird. Like, you know, how is it that I end up here when I'm from here anyway? It was just crazy. So anyway, I got pumped up and I got ravenous.

I got really, really excited and took it real seriously. And we worked a lot. It was an indie and I wasn't sad yet. So we had a lot of 21, 22-hour days. Yeah, oh yeah. Just trying to grind it and just try to get it out. Yeah. I thought that was normal for a long time.

The first time I went on a 12 hours. Some shows it still is. It still is, right, indeed. First time I went on a 12-hour set and everybody wrapped after 12 hours. I was like, where's everybody going? Yeah. They're like, we're done. Right.

So what do you mean? I was like, yeah, no, it's over. I was like, man, we've been here only 12 hours. And they looked at me like, it was some kind of alien. They were like, only 12 hours. So, yeah. You come off of the day. that movie and you said you got ravenous.

I mean, obviously, it sounds like you walked off of that and you're like, this is what I want to do. Without a doubt, he kind of instilled in me a responsibility. And he made it quite clear that this is something that is a privilege to be able to participate in this arena. And he was like, you know what, man, if you really want to do music, you can do music as well. But I think you should focus on this and take this seriously. And it was very interesting. A year passed and the show didn't come out, and I'm used to that now, but, you know, waiting for that to come out. Oh, early on in your career, just, it's crazy.

Intense. Yeah, it kills you. Yeah. Intense. And it was very interesting. The show wasn't out yet. I'm flat broke again, you know, because, you know, that scale don't last but so long, you know what I mean? And I'm paying the rent.

I'm like, Mom, what do you need? Blong, blah, blah, blah. I'm buying out the bar, you know, just, I'm going crazy. Yeah, you're a kid. You're young. 19 years old, I went nuts. And so, when it ends up happening is, I'm on the couch one day, deeply, deeply depressed. Like, man, I did all of that. You know, what's it all for?

You know, things never going to come out. It's only three months away. Three months when you're 19. It feels like forever. It's like, you know, an eternity, right? And my buddy's like, hey, man, you need to get out of the house. I was like, I'm not getting, I'm not leaving the house until the movie comes out. I love it.

He's like, man, get your ass up. We gotta take a walk. I was like, what for? Is the movie going to just magically appear if I take a walk or something? I'm just being an ass, right? Right. You know, and I was like, why would I walk? I ain't got no money.

He was like, man, yo, man, you know, you're scaring me, man. Get your ass out of the couch, you know, off the couch and out the house, right? Yeah. So he convinced me to take a walk. We're walking down Central Park, and I'm just, I'm just, you know, just being a miserable, just, you know, just a miserable, angry kind of guy, right? The whole time. We walk all the way down to, like, near Museum of Natural History.

Who do I see sitting on a bench, Jeff Goldblum and Forrest Whitaker? Wow! Wow! Jeff Goldblum and Forrest Whitaker were doing a picture, and I happened to walk by the set. Oh, my God. And I hear Bochim. And I'm like, hey, man. By the way, your forest is impeccable.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I was like, oh, that sounds just like him. That's my big brother, you know. So, you know, he's like, you know, what are you doing here? I was just like, I'm taking a walk.

Oh, my God. And my friend's looking at me like, see me grow? Sometimes you need to just get your ass up off the couch. And I'm like, whoa. So my mind is blown, right? Yeah. So that. after he got off the set, me and him went to some club,

and I forgot about everything that was bugging me. You know, we had a great time. He picked up the tab. And then I was like, hey, man, at the end of I was like, do you mind if I just, I hate to do this man, but can I borrow $10 so I can get home? He was like, you don't have any money? And I was like, I spent it all.

And he was just like, oh, yeah, sure, hold on. And he's peeling off 10. I'm thinking it's like 10 singles, $100 bills, man. Wow. Just bless me with a G Right there Just like that And I'm like

Are you sure? He was like I don't worry about it I could predium I was like Are you sure man Yeah yeah Are you gonna be able to get home now

I was like yeah I think I'll be all right Wow I'll never forget that What a kindness Oh man What a magical You just had like these magical

days. I mean, you know, like inexplicably magical, right? You just, Francis, let's take a walk and you run into the, ah, I just, you know, thanks for letting me tell that story. It's a great story. Yeah, yeah, that just pulled me up. And what a lovely kindness, because, you know, you were asking just out of genuine, like, I don't know how I'm going to get back up to home. Yeah, like I was being real. Yeah. Yeah. And I had to work up the courage, you know. Right. What do I do? Just say it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, good. I'll never in the time that we have, get to list. everything you've done. What is exciting

when I was looking at your CV is how much breadth and depth and how many kinds of projects you've done. Everything from you know, kind of like big blockbustery conventional, you know what I mean? Broad, yes. Oh yes. Bocheme is standing up to get another beer

out of the... Oh! That is worked out just fine. Out of the fridge. Out of the magical Girl and Guy Bunker fridge, which is full of delicious. things to drink. That is it, yeah, there we go. You had it, you had it.

You had it like that, like that. I'm so sorry, I don't want to make. Oh, there we go. Yeah. What is that? Isn't that fun? I like that. I got it at a, at a, at a, at a, at a, at a, at a, at a, at a, it's a, it's a bottle

of drink with a nail. It's a very creative, upcycle thing. To, you know, it's indie things to, like, what one thing I was really struck by is how many music videos you've done. True. Did that come out of being a musician? Did that come out of that moment when Pac tapped you on the shoulder? Did it come from the tattoo artist that worked with Wu-Tang?

Because I feel like you've collaborated with like Wu-Tang members. Oh, well, Riz is my big brother as well. So, you know, we're probably working together in the future again. He just finished directing a piece that's coming out in March, which is going to be quite powerful. A feature? Oh, yeah. Oh, wow.

It's going to be bad. This is a second? Didn't he do? What was the first one? The man with the I am. Fists. Yes, yeah, yeah. And then he was in and he directed it. So this is the second one. Is it the same? I don't want to give too much a weight, but I would say it is nothing like the man with the iron fists, but it's going to be bad ass. He loves kung fu. Do you guys have that in common, I imagine. Yeah, we have the same Kung Fu master.

Oh, really? Okay. I'm sorry. I'm going off on another tangent. No, no, I want that. I want that. I want that tangent. You have the same Kung Fu Master. Is that how you met? No, no, no, no. I met Risen in 94 when I was just. out here when he was still kind of rough around the edges and he used to rock the gold fangs, you know, he had to throw, and I couldn't understand what the God was saying at all. I mean, I was

really like, I asked him to repeat himself a couple of times. I was like, Paul, me, go, what? Is that a lyric? Right, right, right, dig it, dig it. You know, so, you know what I'm saying? He would human me and slow it down a little bit, but it still sounded like 100 miles per hour.

But we clicked, right? Right away, and this is even before I started training with the master, Shifu Shian Ming, of the USA Shaolin Temple, located on Broadway, one block, Norfolk Canal, real authentic Shaolin Kung Fu. But this is even before that. And then, yeah, we hit it off right away. And then when I started training Kung Fu, I found out that the master trains the Rizza too.

Oh, wow. So I was like, okay, well, makes sense to me. He has the same kind of fluidity in his career, I think, that you do, you know, that he's an emce. And then he, you know, has all these really diverse interests. And he's directed and he scored, like he scored, you know, for Quentin. I think he scored Kill Bill 1 and 2 for Quentin. Scored the hell out of it.

He really did. I mean, he has that same kind of like fearless diversity in his career. So you guys just became friends with it. What was it about, I don't want to phrase this question. What do you think has been the fueling drive? for you to be involved in so many music projects. Is it because of your musician yourself that you've been in all these videos

and collaborating with all these other musicians? I can't say it's that. I'm going to be honest with you. You know what I mean? I like your style. I always have, so I'm going to tell the truth. Thank you. I needed the dough.

Right, right. That's fair shit. We're all out there trying to make it work. I needed the dough. Except for Pox's video and Wu-Tang videos, that was personal. But other than that, I needed the dough. Right, right.

And Park requested me personally. Oh, that's... Was that before gridlocked? That was right before gridlocked. And that's how we met. And I got the call, and my agent at the time says, Tupac called. I said, what?

This is bizarre. Like, we need Tupac called. Well, not Tupac himself, but Tupac's representatives called. And I was like, about what? I'm like, do I just have got some money? Right, right, right. Like, what could possibly be? I was a little nervous.

Like, what did he say? Yeah. And they were like, you know, they want you to appear in his music video. So they sent the car, blah, blah, blah. I get to the set and I see Pock. And right off the top, he's like, hey, man, I just want to let you know. You're the only cat that I would do this video with. My management wanted this guy, this guy.

And he's naming off way more prominent actors than me at the time. And I'm like, wow. And he was like, but I wanted, I told him I wouldn't do this video with nobody else but you. So I was like, whoa, this is bogged out, right? Yeah. And so we're hanging out and we're in the, he's got like an entourage. And I put to say he had an entourage at that time is to put it mildly. Right, right, right.

Cats is everywhere. You understand what I'm trying to say. Right? So I'm comfortable when I'm with him, but whenever he leaves to do a shout, I'm like, yo, Park, where are you going, man? Because, you know, I would really, I had only been in the West Coast for his butt so long, and I felt like I'd been lucky, right? You know what I mean?

Because it's just different policies. The rhythm, everything is different. You know, I'm pretty good in a fight, but the pistolero, the gunplay is like, that's not my thing, right? And that's how they get down out here. So I was just like, really out of my element. I'm not going to lie, right? Yeah. So he sensed that, you know, I had some trepidation.

So he's like, hey, man, you should. smoke weed? I was like, yeah, he was literally like, roll this nigga blunt. Somebody's like, ooh. I'm like, oh, shit. He was like, you drink? I'm like, yeah, he was like, bring this nigga bottle of crystal. A bottle of crystal for me by myself. You eat? You like food? Yeah, bring this nigga a plate of food.

All of a sudden, the entourage is making itself useful. Yo, you got these bangers like rolling me up blind and bringing me a bottle of crystal and trying to make the food right. No sitting there with a food or blood. And, you know, it was just, it was marvelous. He was, he was the epitome of hospitality. Yeah. The epitome of hospitality.

And we just hit it off. It was, you know, one of those things. You're, you're an actor, and you're in this world with these musicians. And, you know, it's, it's, how, it's interesting because I think as an actor, people kind of decide certain things about you. they perceive you a certain way because of roles you played, you know, and, you know, you were talking about the fact that when you were a young guy, when you were seven, you know, you weren't a hard kid, you know what I mean? No, I wasn't. I was soft.

And you were sweet, little sensitive, as seven-year-old should be sweet, little sensitive dudes. But you play hard a lot in movies, and I imagine that's one of the reasons why Tupac reached out to you because he saw what you were doing in your work, and it appealed to him. But I also, he was also a really interesting, artist in that he had this kind of hard street image and you know but he was also this kind of sensitive actor prolific writer you know poetry and activist if you ask me he really had this kind of

tender heart um i just wonder how you felt when he died not good uh not good at all do you remember like when you heard yeah what your reaction was i was hoping that he'd pulled through and uh you know because he'd been shot before and pulled through. But somewhere in the back of my mind, I knew that it wasn't going to happen this time. I was hurt. I'm not going to lie, I was hurt. Yeah.

There's a strange nexus between, and I imagine it's existed. Like, it existed in the 50s with the rat pack and the mafia, right? It did. It's not just us. Without a doubt. Yeah. This strange nexus between kind of, you know,

this group in Hollywood, and for lack of better language, a criminal element. You know, I can't, and, and, I'm going to try to lay this out in a thoughtful way. It existed in the 50s with the mafia, you know, and Sinatra. There was that kind of the center of that Venn diagram, that overlap between those things and the mafia,

wanting to touch him and him using them for things he wanted them to do. Real talk. And then, you know, watching, straight out of Compton, you know, and, you know, I think we'd all heard about the Shugs and all the stuff that was going on with death row and stuff like that. I guess as an actor, you were touching that world, and I just wonder if there was a part of you that wanted to be a part of it, but a part of you, I was like, look, I just came here to act. Dig it. You know what I mean? And now I'm going to go back to my house in Hollywood and, you know,

y'all beef with each other. Exactly. Well, that was always my mindset. My thing is this. I had two things going for me. One, I'm a rock and roller. So as much as I love hip hop, and I love me some hip hop. I love rock more. So my mindset is rock and roll. And rock and roll is slightly less violent than hip hop in the 90s. Rock and roll is good times. Rock and roll is if anybody's getting, if I'm destroying anything, I'm destroying myself. That's all it is. You know, yeah. It's self-destruction. It's not like, you know, you're not, it's a different type of thing. And bands aren't beefing with each other. Yeah. And if it's a fistfight, it's a fistfight. Yeah. Right. I've been to some consciousness. I've literally seen it sounds like someone who I've seen guys go at it and then have to drink afterwards.

Right, right. And I feel like that's how men should be, you know what I'm saying? You know, I really don't like weapons. I really don't, I mean, I know they serve a purpose when you're defending your home, but I really, I don't like weapons. I think you should duke it out, hands and feet, you know what I mean? But that's just me. But, you know. I think that's a reason.

I don't think you shouldn't tell it. I think it's a reasonable position to take, you know what I mean? You know, like, that's just me. No, I think that should be most people. I think that's an absolutely reasonable position. Thanks for back to me up on that. I'm co-signing. Thank you, co-signing.

I co-sign it. Bow, bow, bow, give me my opinion. I'm a sign that. But I'm on the same page. But, yeah, so it was easy for me because rock and roll is my roots. You know, it's easy for me to stay out of it. And I'm from New York. So to me, I was like, you know, and listen, I hope nobody takes offense to this.

But I was like, you know, you West Coast Negroes is just, out your goddamn mind. I mean, that's how I felt in the 90s. Because in New York, you know, when people kill other people, it's about money. You know, there's crimes of passion sometimes, but generally it's about the money. I didn't understand this whole random, I couldn't, I couldn't understand why people would kill each other when there's no real money involved at that moment. Right, the stakes are not about money or just, it's just about. your mom. Attitude, ego.

It made no sense to me. And, you know, I understand a little bit more about it because it's very interesting. I had a lot of very interesting experiences because of, just like what you said, people gravitated towards me because of the roles that I played. And sometimes they'd be disappointed, you know? Yeah, when you weren't stabbed in real life. Exactly. They'd be like, yo, what's up?

Yo, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, hello. I'm like, oh, like, they were so disappointed. They were just so disappointed. And I tell you a funny story. One of these days, excuse me, one of the days back in the day, I was in the car with this cat who was a banger, and he was my friend. He was, he's no longer with us, but he was my genuine friend, you know.

And we used to talk about Al Green all the time and the oldies and stuff. And we're in the car, and I'm in the passenger seat. and he's in the driver's seat and this car pulls up alongside us and they start talking this language, this vernacular that's, I don't understand, right? And I realize this is some gang bang type of situation.

So old boy reaches back and this is the guy that's driving the car that I'm in and I see he's got the pistol right there and you know he holds it like that. It's just a reflex action for him. It's just that's what he does, right? And luckily, He backed them down just with that movement.

I guess they kind of understood, you know, that, you know, he got, he had to drop on them, basically. Right, right, right, right. They couldn't have done nothing, right? And I was like, yo, dude, I'm in the car. Seriously? I'm in the car. And I'm so, I'm an only child. I'm self-centered.

I was like, I'm in the car. Not like I'm in the car. I mean, I'm, me. I'm in the car, man. Right? And he was like, oh, man, don't worry about that. I was going to lean over you, meaning I'm going to reach over you to extend my arm past your head. Because, like, yo, you could have shot me while you're shooting that thing.

He said, nah, don't worry about that. I was going to lean over you. Oh, I feel so much better. What a relief. That, yeah, thank you for thinking of my head. Oh, my God. Gee, you know, so I had a couple experiences like that. And it educated me about a couple of things about how.

how it is out here. And what I realize is I have so much love from people on the West Coast that, you know, they might not do things that their mama or their dad would want them to do, but they really looked out for me. They really, really showed me a lot of love. And I had a different education about why things are the way they are as far as that's concerned. And I got a history. So I went from being a New Yorker who used to almost close.

kind of like look at them with contempt like, you guys are stupid, to understanding some of the reasons why I still don't condone it, and I still think it's not right. That's my own personal feeling. But I understand to this day a little bit more than I did when I first got here. Right. And it's interesting because it made me think of, and I just because it just came out, and I think if you grew up on like the West Coast hip hopper, you grew up on NWA, and I remember like getting my first, you know, like all those mixed tapes out of like your friend, oh, I got, you know, I got boys in the hood. I got, you know, I got too short, whatever, you know, on cassette. You know, I remember those days vividly when I was a little kid, but it was so interesting to

see straight out of Compton and get all this context, right, to get all this context about like how these people are enacted, how they interact, how they got the money to make their records. And so why there were these influences in hip-hop in West Coast hip-hip-hop. But I just remember thinking, and I, you made me think of this, that I was just like, But once you start making money, why are you still out in the street? You live in, you know, you live in Agora Hills and behind a gate. You never have to interact this way again. You never do, you know.

And I don't know. It's interesting. It's an interesting aspect. Well, that's prevalent with a lot of athletes. Not to cut you sure. No, no. That's prevalent with a lot of athletes, a lot of actors, a lot of musicians. of varying.

You got some R&B dudes out there that are grimy. And these are R&B dudes. Right, exactly. And they're grimy. Trust me, I know. So, you know what I'm saying? I think it's an individual choice. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

I mean, because it makes no sense. Everything you just said is absolutely accurate. Like, why in your right mind would you continue to try to represent a certain lifestyle that is detrimental to your physical being, to your shell, to your body. So the only one you have. You could die. You know what I'm saying?

Quite painfully. You know what I'm saying? Too short, too early, too soon, man. Like, you know what I'm saying? Why would you continue to do that? And the only thing that makes sense to me is I guess it's an individual choice. Right. It's a choice.

And sometimes people can't see past their own circumstance. Right. They're trapped in a mindset. Yeah. And, you know, even though they've moved physically out of that space, they're still in it inside their head, you know. Indeed. And certain obligations that people feel are built in the mind. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I want to ask about your musical life now.

And whether you still get to, you were saying earlier, I don't get to, maybe I'll never get to play music in front of people the way that I want. And so I guess I wonder what you meant by that. And do you get to play music in any of the ways that you want now? I haven't played in a long time. What happened in the early 21st century, early part of the 21st century, the 2005? The aughts. Is that what we're calling now?

Oh, I like that. I never thought I'd get to say that. In 2005, I started noticing, or maybe Art 6, realistically. I started noticing that cats were starting to, ask you to pay them to rehearse. And so, you know, that made no sense to me because if it's a rock and roll band, right, like you play because you love the music, you want to be in the band. And it's just too expensive.

So that kind of shut it down. But my band is 13 Purple Dragons. I write all the music. What a cool name. You like that? Yeah, I love it. I love it. And so for all intents and purposes, I am 13 Purple Dragons.

And it's just a three piece. Me on Lead Guitar and Vocals, Bass and Our Drums. and yeah so I would love to get it going again and I mean it's always in me that haven't been said I realize that nowadays the landscape of music has changed my style of rock and roll might not be appealing to people anymore I don't have no idea and I'm not I'm just not into paying people just to jam like we got to jam four hours a day you know, four or five days a week. I mean, how many?

That's like, that's a lot of money ultimately. For essentially, like you said, rehearsal time, it's not like it's then producing something that you're going to record. You're just trying to get to a place where you would eventually record. That's right. And the times that I have record, I always pay my musicians. The times we play, I give them the money because we don't make so much money. We're playing like little

dive bars and this time and the other. But I got to tell you, you know, when I get on stage and I guitars in my hand and the music is playing and I'm playing the music. and I'm a different person, and that is my real element. Yeah. I think, I don't know why, because he didn't ask me, but I just, I think that you should keep playing. Oh, yeah?

Yeah, I think that you should. I mean, because I feel like, you know, you were around the same age, and I feel like when you're younger and you're trying to build a career, you get very one-pointed. You get very focused on, you know, okay, I'm an actor, and I've got to build a resume here. I've got to build some equity here. I've got to build momentum here.

It's important that I focus. And then I think sometimes you get to a place in your life where it's not necessarily, it never really takes care of itself, but you do have some momentum. You know, you do people know who you are. You're established. And what's exciting, like I said,

about your career is how well-rounded it is, how you've shown you can do like almost everything. You know, you can do every kind of character, every kind of genre. And so then it becomes like, I'm going to start to satisfy myself as an artist again. You know what I mean? Am I going to start to do the stuff that kind of gives me, you know, an interior life? I feel like it's hard. In your 20s and 30s are about hustling. That's it. You're just on the hustle.

Real tall. Then I think you get, you know, to a place where you think, okay, like, you know, I got to make some stuff that that's just about me, you know? Wow. That's inspirational. And when I see you talking, I just saw you talking about music and I saw you saying how you feel when you pick up that guitar. And then I was like, I want you to feel that way all the time. Oh, thank you. on your face, how delighted it makes you. Yeah, it does. It really does. And you know what? I don't think I've given up all the way. I think, I mean, I was

playing the other day, and, you know, I was like, yeah, I still got it. You know, it's something about about it. You know, when you're a musician and you create something out of nothing out of the ethereal, you know, mystery,

and it just comes to you and then it comes to your fingers or, or whatever. you play, you know, musicians, they know, it's, it's, to me, it's the closest I'll ever get to the source. Yeah. Yeah. It's magic. It really is.

It's magic. And I, and what's exciting about that, I'm not a musician, but I always felt that way about stand-up. Like, I would do a bit, and then later I'd be like, I don't even really remember writing that. I just feel like it was this idea and it came through me. And it, like, formed itself, you know? And then later, when it's kind of done, I go, God, you know, again, like it was almost like an out of body experience, you know, and it wasn't like I sat there and I wrote it all out.

It was just like this was an expression of who I was. And there was a big part of it that was just like you feel like it's flowing through you, like you're just a vessel. And that's an exciting feeling. That's absolutely true, what you just said. It's very accurate. That feeling I feel too, because I feel like it's not me, you know, like, yeah, I'm doing it. Right.

Like, you know, I'm, you know, semantically, yes. am pressing down the string, right? Like, you know, I am saying these words, right? But it's almost like I don't, it's almost like I can't even take credit for it, you know, like everybody said, yeah, man, you wrote a pretty good song. But I did I write it? Was that me or, you know, like, what's really going on, you know? Yeah, yeah. What music do you listen to you now? Because you're saying you're a rock and roll guy. So what, yeah. I'm a rock and roller. I don't listen to too many contemporary rock bands because a lot of these guys are just, you know, they're bitching the moaning. That's not rock and roll. You know what I'm saying?

You know what I'm saying? It's like, you know what I'm saying? It's like, I'm not going to mention no names, but, you know, be about pals, we used to tease this one, this one R&B singer because he would do, he would do his videos where he's always on his knees crying in the rain or something. You know what I'm saying? It's like, brother, get up off your knees.

Don't crying the goddamn rain. You're making the brothers look bad. Why are you crying in the rain, brother? You know, come on, man. Keep it moving, baby. We don't do that. He just made me think of orange juice Jones. Oh my God.

We do not cry in the rain on our goddamn knees. Show some of yourself. Yeah, man, respect yourself, brother. You know, but I love it. But I say all that to say that that's how I feel rock and roll is right now. You know, a bunch of cats crying about some gal. And listen, listen, listen. You know, some of the best songs are about, you know, the heartbreak.

But when they're done like in a masculine fashion with, you know what I'm saying, there's a way to do it. There's a way to lament. You don't just cry and rain on your knee. Do you listen to old music? Do you listen to like. Zeppelin. Sir James Marshall Hendricks.

Yes. My hero. Yes. Sabbath. Bad brains. What else do I like? I'm loving this. You know what I mean?

I like Murphy's Law, very obscure punk band from New York. You know what I mean? Old punk is so crazy. I used to really be into New York Underground punk when I was a little kid, like a fear and stuff like that. Wow, man. I had Henry Rollins on the show,

which was a really fun experience as well. Yeah. I mean, he's like a punk. He's like a walking punk encyclopedia. But I saw Black Flag live in high school. What? Yeah, which was, it's, I think that the, like, you know how when you're a kid, or even as an adult, you think, God, I wish I'd seen these five bands. Like, I wish I'd been alive when Zepp was still touring, you know?

Like, just, wouldn't that have just, I mean, just one fucking time, you know? Just one show. And I used to really want to see Pink Floyd, and then they got back together. They did that reunion tour. And it wasn't quite the original Pink Floyd, but it was still a, like, you could say you went. But I will say that seeing Black Flag Live, like seeing Henry Rollins perform live is like a trans. formative experience. And he does a different thing now, you know. Right. But he, he was one of those people. You're like, okay, that was really something, you know, that was really something. And I wonder, like,

if there was one band that you could see, like, live. Oh, yeah, well, I mean, you know, obviously. Well, Jimmy probably. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Me too. All of us. Everybody on the planet feels that way. Yeah. If I had to choose, you know what I'm saying? Put a gun to my head, twist my arm. Right. Yeah. You know, Sir James Marshall Hendricks, you know what I'm saying? Of course. Of course. Without a doubt.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, we would all like to go back in time and have that experience, I think. Do you have your self-inflicted wounds story? Have you decided what you want to tell? Well, that's a good question. I don't know.

I have so many self-inflicted wounds. I have so many self-inflicted wounds. I would tell you one that's a little tame. Okay. That's all right. I'm going to give you a tame one. I'm at the after party for some kind of film, right? Some kind of film?

I'm not going to say the name or anything like that. But it was a picture, you know, a motion picture. A major motion picture. Picture, right? And yeah, you know, I'm a little tipsy, right? You know, I've had a couple. And I'm having a conversation with what are the actresses in the picture, right? Just, you know, just talking, you know, blah day blah, you know, oh, I really like your performance and the nuances and the subtlety.

And I passed gas. I did. I pass guests, not loudly or anything like that, because I'm really trying to like, it was coming out. It was one of the, it was nothing you could do. There was literally nothing I could do. But the problem is, is I'm slow. I'm trying to let it out slow, right? You know what I'm saying?

It's a strategic move. We've all done it. And I'm hoping as directional, right? Right, right. I'm trying to direct, which is impossible because the fart encompasses. It does not, it's not a funnel. You cannot direct it, right? No, you cannot.

But it just doesn't work like that, right? So what ends up happening is it becomes obvious that somebody farted, right? And so I'm trying to play it off. I'm like, the nerve. Yes. What happened? Outrage. But she knows I did it.

And I know she knows I did it. Right? So I'm trying to shift my body hoping, hoping against hope, that somehow I can send it in another direction. Just push it. Right. And so I'm altering my body and I'm turning a certain way and she's trying to get away from it. Right. But she doesn't want to be rude and just be like, and the conversation was rather engrossing. So she wants to finish the conversation and I want to finish the conversation, but we both try to figure how to get through this awkward moment in the conversation. Right. And so I'm turning one way and she's trying to get away from it and she's turning another way and we're doing like a docy dough.

Like a little sir. A little sur. But all while trying to maintain the ultimate politeness. And we're turning around like such and such like, yes. And, uh-huh. Yes. Well, you know what that was? That was great.

And I think the lighting was fantastic and blah, blah, blah. And we're turning like a little civy circle. It was almost like we were dancing and she's trying to get away. And ultimately, I guess I was chasing it with the fart. Yeah, you were pushing it towards her. Yeah, unintentionally. And she kept walking into it. You know, because I kept moving in such a way.

And, yeah, it was pretty bad. And, you know, but she's a dynamite actress, and she played it off. She, you know, she acted like nothing happened, but I could have sworn by it. When I walked away, I might have seen a little water in her eyes. Just a tear of relief. It's over. Thank God this brother's going, yeah.

Before we go, you train, you train Shaolin style kung fu. It's a very old school of Kung Fu, Shalun Kung Fu. And you can tell me to buy my own business, but I can see that you, it looks like you have been in combat. I'm assuming that your hands look like that because of your practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not because of fisticuffs in them screets. No, I don't do that no more.

Those days is over. The last time I hit somebody, it was not necessarily, you know, nobody wants to fight. It's just when somebody throws a punch at you, there's nothing you can really do. Right, right. And it's kind of, and, you know, it made me think about the environments and the places that I put myself in. And I had to take responsibility for where I am and, you know, why am I there?

And that made me start thinking about, like, what is the objective? Like, why are you there? You want to have a good time? Blasie, blah. What's the point, right? But, yeah, I don't ever, ever plan on hitting anybody again. But what I do is I hit hard objects every day hundreds of times to condition my fists. So God forbid I have to protect my daughter, daughters or my wife.

I will, you know, it's going to. You're prepared. Yeah, I'm prepared, I guess. For lack of a better word, I'm prepared. Or I'm constantly trying to be prepared. I'm constantly in a state of learning to be prepared. So for me, Kung Fu is not about, you know, smashing somebody's world.

It's more like it's about being a part of something bigger than myself. And it's about being part of a legacy that is going to last way longer than me and has been here much longer than me. And it's a way of life. That was beautiful. Oh, thank you. We're going to end it there. Okay, cool.

Bochim, thank you so much for doing my show. Anytime. time. Any time. I'm your biggest fan. Thank you. Thank you. I feel the same way. Yay. That was Bocheme Woodbine. There's been no Apoloja lately. It's mainly because I'm too busy to figure out what one would be. That's just how it's been the last season, right? I'm just slammed. I'm trying to get these shows to you as best I can with very limited resources, time, bandwidth. And so I don't have enough time to apologize. So if I'm, there's an Apoloja is that I'm not doing any apologizes. I apologize for not apologizing. Is that sorry enough for you? it better be come follow me friend me say hi online Twitter Facebook tumbler Instagram at my three handles Aisha Tyler girl on guy and courage and stone make yourself known to me come to girl and guy dot net click on the envelope

send me a letter it's never too early but it soon will be too late to get your question and for the all listener question show so send me something say hi um you guys are the greatest thanks for all the feedback all the notes all the tweets all the posts thanks for the feedback on the sound I'm glad it hasn't changed dramatically since the old bunker I was worried about it but you guys have assuaged my fears. Go out there into this first week of December, the first week of the last month of the year 2015,

and make some magic. Don't be afraid. This is your time. The world is a scary place, but you don't have to be scared. Get out there and make magic and touch those around you, not in a weird way,

and walk out into the street in front of where you live and kick massive ass. And I will talk to you in the next one. Late. Girl on Guy is a production of Hot Machine, blowing shit up since 2009.