Girl on Guy with Aisha Tyler - girl on guy 218: chelsea handler

Episode Date: September 29, 2016

this episode is with the superlative chelsea handler.    that is all.

This is Girl on Guy. Hey, everybody, welcome to Girl on Guy 218. Welcome to the show. I know I don't get to spend as much time with you guys as I have in the past, and definitely not as much time as I would like. But a lot is going on. That is not a complaint, just a statement of fact. And I wanted to thank you guys for continuing to be so supportive and devoted to this show, despite the fact that it shows up in your virtual mailbox less frequently than alleged

from your prison pen pal. You are a lovely group of people and I appreciate you tweeting and reaching out and supporting the show. And it keeps me going when it is near next to impossible to get this show recorded, let alone cut and posted online. But I do have another episode for you finally, and it is a sensational one. So thank you for sticking around. It's been a big summer, a big summer. For those of you who are access backers, thank you so much. I did an update recently where I let you know that we're going to start to get rewards together. The summer has been almost entirely consumed with actually getting the movie edited. There were lots of changes and everything good, but just trying to, you know, my very first feature,

trying to put it together on a shoestring budget and doing a lot of it myself, as I want to do, including editing the thing. But we are very close to picture lock on that, which is very exciting. It's looking like a movie, and I'm really, really proud of it, and I couldn't have done it without you. So thanks to everybody who was backed the movie at whatever level you backed it. and we are going to start to finally get those rewards together in the coming months and get them out to you. So stand by for that. Let's get a little bit of business out of the way briefly, but mercifully, briefly. This episode of Girl on Guy is brought to you in part by Casper.

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Okay. This episode is with a superlative human being who I admire from afar and delight in up close. She's a sensational person with a very interesting mind, Chelsea Handler. And we've been acquaintances for a long time. We've just recently become friends. But I'm thrilled that we are friends because she is a smart. and thoughtful lady. And she has this brand new show on Netflix that launched this year. What's great about the new Chelsea show is it has all the edginess and the, you know, the cutting kind of

dry, dry comedy and the no bullshittedness. That's not a word, but you understand what I'm saying, of Chelsea lately. But it's just operating on a smarter, higher plane. And I'm not trying to beat up E. I may beat up in this interview, but I won't beat them up now. But, you know, that was a pop culture network. And now she's on Netflix, which is, you know, something that does. doesn't report on pop culture, but is driving pop culture. And so you can be uncensored and you can be thoughtful. And you can have a longer, more wide-ranging, more intellectually driven conversation on her show. And that's what she's doing.

She's exploring. She's challenging herself. She's challenging her guests. And I'm really, really impressed with that show. And I was a guest on it recently. It was a blast. And then she came and did my show. And it was so much fun.

We did this in the brand-new bunker. We had drinks. We chatted. And what I was really proud of was how open. And she's always open. You've seen her online. She's a very open book, but I love that in any context, Chelsea is always 100% fully herself, and she doesn't allow anybody else to be anything less than fully themselves when they are in her company.

It was a great conversation. It was very open and honest and enjoyable. And I think this woman is just kick-ass on all levels, and I know you're going to love this conversation. I think it's a unique one, and one that Chelsea admits very early on is a conversation. conversation that she's never quite had before. And I'm really, really proud of it. And I think she's superlative. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Girl on Guy 218 with the comedian and wildly bestselling author, a television host, and Razor Witt, Chelsea Handler, coming at you, straight out of the Girl on Guy Bunker and right into your face. I'm recording. Put this in your mouth. I need this to be

really close to you. First of all, you look very fit. I don't know what that's about. Chelsea Handler, welcome to my show. Hi, hi, hey. We're drinking. Cheers. Cheers. Lechayum. Cheers. Lechiam. Slanchia. You know what? I'm so into podcast because people drink. It literally, the reason that that bar is so complex is because my goal was to offer people booze when they came to me. I was like, I'm a grown up and you're a grown up and why shouldn't we be drinking right now? I mean, that's a really great bar and I'm going to use, like, I'm going to use that as a model for something. You need to have, you need, I feel like an adult when I look at that thing. That makes me feel very grown-out. Yeah, I like being an adult. I also,

but I'm not a great mixologist, so I really need a bunch of like drink cocktail, like recipes at ready. Well, that thing that I'm doing, and I'm not promoting it now, but I'm just telling about it is so that you don't ever have to make shit. It's a line of cocktails that you just pour into a glass and they're like, hey, Manhattan. So, because I, what I just did was a pain of my fucking ass. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I'm sorry that you had to do that. I'm sorry that you have to do that. No, I did it for me. I did it for me. I did it for me. I did it. I'm a All I had was vodka straight on the rocks with a little fucking comparate. And you're already complaining about me.

I know. No, I love it. I love it here. I'm complaining about my own, my own, like, fucking difficulty. I'm difficult for myself. So many fucking questions. First of all, did you just give blood? I did go to the doctor.

I had some blood work done. I'm having a procedure done soon. Oh, my God. It's exciting. Having a facelift? No, I just gave blood, yeah. That's good. On my way here, I was in Beverly Hills.

You're on fire. That's why I was like, what do I do now? Exactly. I'm coming to you. And you're also in your workout clothes, which makes me really excited. And I have not worried about. Sometimes when I'm done taping my show, I just put on workout clothes because I'm like, well, maybe I'll just go do a couple squats in the gym or something. Like a suggestion. Like, let's see if this makes me want to do and then nothing. Today I think I worked off for maybe six to seven minutes. I just went and lifted weights for like seven minutes. And then I was like, I'm done with this. Better than the alternative. Yeah, exactly. I often get up in the morning, put on my workout clothes, sit down to answer emails and then that's my, that's my, that's my, that's my, that's my, that's. my outfit for the day. I never, I never work out, and I'm just in these fucking awful Nike shorts with the underwear are built in. Oh, wow. Do you have all the shorts? No, but you know, my balls.

The penis is gone, but I saw the testicles. Just a little cupping. Those are like a lobster net, like a catch man's balls. But the women's ones have them too. Oh, I don't wear shorts, really. Oh, you know, I don't feel confident really in shorts. No? Not anymore. First of all you're super fit. What's happening with you? I am, but I just feel like shorts are just a little embarrassing. Okay. Like, I'll feel like I have to look down on my legs all the time and like, look, like, I'm just on the shorts. How's it going there? Yeah, like, I'm there.

There's a cellulet on the back. Like, what am I doing? Can I run? Am I to run in shorts? Yeah, no. I don't think I am. Yeah, I don't know. I like them, but I work out mostly in like a private space.

So, like, I don't think I think about it that much. I just think, oh, these are like lightweight and don't, aren't constricting to my testicles. Well, you obviously don't have the issues I do. I have plenty of issues. Well, but maybe you just don't have the same physical issues. I don't have the exact leg issues. I'm a very, very hypercritical of my own body.

Let's stop that right now. I want to stop it. I'm actually working with this hypnotist about it because it's like my one thing that I have like a real like, it's my Achilles seal. Yeah. I just, I really don't think I look good when I do and I just need to stop. Okay, well, first of all, you just answered all of your own questions, but I. Can't live as I just said, I'm working with a hypnotist. No, it's so if you're fucking cool.

Don't, don't apologize for your shit, man. I'm not. I'm just telling you the truth. I mean, just do it. You're rich and you need to put your money somewhere. So spend it on whatever. I don't know. Voodoo dolls.

Did it? Yeah, it worked. And that's why I said, hey, what else do you do? And he said, well, I work with, it's this guy everyone goes to in Hollywood. He's in Santa Monica. He's called Carrie Gaynor. And I went in for smoking and that took. And I'm like, what else do you do?

That's amazing. Weight loss, you know, fear flying, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I have major, like, food and eating dysmorphia, body dysmorphia, eating things. Like, I just want to be healthy. Yeah. And so he's like, okay, we can work on that, but it's going to take a lot longer than smoking. Smoking, you go three times.

Okay. The first time you don't quit, the second time you never smoke again. That's the plan. And then you go the third time for reinforcement. And everyone I know, and I was never a smoker-smoker, but I smoked when I drank, which is like three or four times a week. Yeah, that was me too. And if I partied, I would definitely be smoking.

And then all of a sudden, one day I was driving to work and wanted to light a cigarette in the morning, and I'm like, this is a problem. Right, right, right, exactly. Because smoking is also kind of behaviorally enjoyable in addition to being addictive. Like, I don't know, I smoked when I was a kid, and then a little bit in college. And I guess it's public knowledge now, But when I started to go to my divorce, I was, I for a nice period of time, would get up in the morning and start drinking in the morning and smoking in the morning, like right at the start of the day. That's so good that you're honest about that because I'm sure so many people have done that.

Yeah. And I'm got to tell you something. I'm not advocating alcohol abuse made. It fucking worked, man. It worked for me when it was happening. It was working for me because I felt terrible about myself. And I needed to do something that was like self-soothing and a little abusive too. Like I kind of was feeling bad about me.

And so the drinking and the smoking at the crack of dawn was like, this is exactly what I deserve. And then eventually I was like, okay, I'm done with this part of my life. So what happened? Like, can you just paint that picture for me? I'm very... Getting up in the morning and smoking and drinking. Yeah, you're like, what kind of drink would you make at that time?

I would just pour like a bourbon and I would sit outside and I would drink. So fucking blue rolls of you. He was like, I was like Nick Nolty and like a cop movie like drinking. And I would smoke a cigarette. And it was like... Oh my God. You must have really been going through something. I was going through a lot.

I was going through a lot. And I, you know, I mean, whatever you feel when a relationship ends, you know, guilt and self-hate and terror and a lot of other things. But so I, so the smoking part of it was very, there was a part of it that wasn't the nicotine. I don't know if you felt this way. It was just the activity of it was very soothing. Yeah, I understand. It's not even like you feel good about it. Yeah.

Like you're just trying to palliate. Yeah, you're, you're palliating. You know what I mean? And there's the activity. All of it was like, all, I mean, you do it. And then immediately you're like, why don't I just go suck on a car exhaust or lick, like, a homeless person's balls. Like, it's awful. How long did this duration of time last?

I feel like it wasn't. I feel like it was like six months. Wow. Yeah, yeah. And then I came out of it. I mean, the really intense drinking was maybe like a few weeks. But then I would come home every day after work and I would have a drink and a cigarette. And then I was done smoking and drinking. And were you working during this time? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And you were able to go to work like that? Oh, it was a wreck. It was a wreck. It was a really interesting time.

You probably didn't even fucking make a dent in you. No, I wouldn't because I wouldn't sit there drinking. I would have a drink. Yeah. Exactly. I don't think I think that by the time I was back at work, because I think I did that over like the holidays. I think by the time I was back at work, I wasn't drinking in the morning anymore. I would wait until the afternoon. I would get home from work and then I would start drinking. Yeah, well, you know. I just, way to cover it up. Way to wait a way to revise history. Way to be a revisionist. So, so I always feel like the nicotine thing isn't as hard to let go as like the, oh, when I drink I smoke or when I'm with my friends I smoke or I'm going to go outside and like be with my feelings and smoke. Did you, did you miss that? part of it? I don't care about smoking at all. Okay. First of all, anytime I smoked, like, I didn't care. I don't know if it was a very casual thing. Like, I would go, you know, seven or eight days without a cigarette, and then I'd go out,

and somebody else would be, or I, there were plenty of times I drank and didn't smoke. Right. But I just, first of all, I had the fucking smell in the morning, grosses me out. The smell, and I would do this thing in my car. I like to smoke in bed. Like, I would smoke in my bed, like, I was Betty Davis or something. I was going to say, lie in bed, watching TV and fucking, like, smoke. and then I put my ashtray outside so that my, and then like it came a thing where like my cleaning ladies, I felt like, shoot, I was, they were shaming me. Not they weren't shaming me, but like I told

them so many times not to have cigarettes in the house for me. Yeah. And then all of a sudden I'd go get them and, you know, blah, blah, and so then I would hide them. Oh, well, you're entitled. It's your fucking house. Well, I know, I know, but I, but still, I was like, why am I hiding cigarettes for my cleaning ladies? Like, I would hide them in the ashtray, then get the ashtray and hide them in the the trash in the morning so they wouldn't see. And I'm like, all of your behavior right now is shame driven is absurd. So you need to either get new cleaning ladies or quit smoking. I was doing a thing where I would get a jar of water and I would ashen to the jar of water and then put the cigarette in the jar of water. So I could flush it down the toilet. And they don't flush though.

No, they float. Yeah. They want everybody to know. It almost smells worse when you put it in the water than you just put it out. Like everything. In hotels, I would smoke and get, if I was really drawing, I would smoke, get home to a hotel, put him in like a thing, and then put a cat back on it. Yeah. So that the smell wouldn't, you know, permeate it throughout the whole room. And it's just such a gross habit. You know what I mean? It's so much nicer to eliminate it and it's not an option.

And that's what this guy tells you. He's like, it's no longer an option that you don't do that anymore. That's your old life. It's not an option. So it's not like you can even have a conversation and entertain the thoughts. You just, you're done. Yeah. You just say, I'm done.

I'm done. It's not an option. And there's like a mantra bullshit. But whatever. It fucking works. I'm ready to examine what else will work. Okay, so now you're going back to them for the body image issues, which I'm so curious about because I feel like everybody,

almost everybody has some version of this. Yeah. And I think men have it more than ever because of kind of the way that culture is going. And, you know, I know like a lot of guys who say shit that I've only ever heard from women, and I think that that's, you know, their bodies being examined and there are more men's magazines and all that shit. But so, first of all, I find you to be so kind of delightfully no bullshit that I just find it really interesting that you have,

that you're carrying this stuff around. And I wonder if you look at it and you go like, oh, this is silly or if it's just so kind of a part of how you've always seen yourself that it's hard to kind of divorce yourself on these feelings that you know are like kind of meaningless and not helpful. Well, I know, obviously the intellectual part of me knows that it's not, it's ridiculous. The non-intellectual, emotional, there's got to be some insecurity, I suppose, with everyone. So for me, I've had eating issues since I was like, since I was a teenager.

because I was a little chunky and then I would diet all the time and then I was like anorexia nervosa which means I would exercise all the time I would weigh myself like 50 times a day this is like early 20s then I would go through periods where I would

stop cold turkey weighing myself and then finally I'd let like three months go by and I'd gained you know seven or eight pounds and fucking lose it then I took water pills for like I mean 20 almost 15 years.

Oh my God. And, I mean, that fucks you up. Yeah. Then, you know, there was a period where I was bulimic when I was like from 15 to 20. I've never spoken about any of this. So this is a good topic, actually. No one's ever asked me probably because everybody thinks

that I'm fucking so confident. You totally have your shit together. Oh, God, you must not have any issues. So I'm glad we're exploring this. And then I, you know, I went through a period of bulimia, which doesn't work also. It doesn't work and is so punishing on your body. It's so bad for your body.

And I just, I've abused my body in so many ways, like physically from just depriving myself, starving myself, and then I went to an nutritionist when I was 27 and he, like, taught me how to, like, behave. Right, like how to be a human being. And how to eat every three to four hours and weigh my food, even though it was really diligent. I needed that structure to. Also, you probably also were applying that kind of diligence to all of your, like, destructive behaviors, right? So it was good to, like, put them into something good. Right. Like that was obsessed.

Well, like, you know, the obsessive weighing and then constantly, like, fixating on food. at least if you're weighing your food and you're thinking about how to eat healthy, that energy's going into something. Yes, so yes, exactly. Sorry. I wasn't tracking what you said, but yeah, I would like, you had to go online and enter your food. You had to eat every three to four hours. I had to cook my own food, which, you know, I didn't know how to cook,

so that was a good thing for me to be doing and occupying myself. And then I would, so he taught me, he got me healthy, and he got me off of water pills, which was the main thing. Like the first week, I lost like 2% body fat, but I gained 7 pounds. And for me, it was so associated with a number. All I wanted was like, I was like, wait, but I'm weighed, I weigh 137 now. I can't weigh 137. I have to weigh 1.30.

I have to. I'm phony 5'7 or 56 or whatever. And then he just really was like kind of a lifesaver because I look better than I ever looked and I just leaned out within two weeks so that the number did not matter. Right, right. It was just like, oh, this is, I don't have cellulet anymore. It's a meaningless fucking number. People say you can't get rid of cellulite.

That's a fallacy. You can get rid of cellulet. You just have to fucking really be an angel about your diet. So I did that for about a year and I was able to maintain. it and then, you know, I started traveling, I think probably on like my first book tour and I went overseas and then it's impossible. It's impossible. But I was, you know, I picked up that. So any time I was like doing like a magazine cover or something or a photo shoot where I was in, you know, whatever, bathing suit or something like that. I would, which I try not to do, I would go on that program and really dial it in. I've never been able to get where I was like for that, for those couple of years.

But, I mean, I'm much more knowledgeable about it now. I still have a lot of weaknesses. I still am like, you know, I don't love my body. I don't love it. When I feel good or when I'm a certain, you know, weight or like body fat or whatever it is, I feel so much better. But it's really hard for me to maintain that because I just don't want to go a month without having a cocktail. I just am not interested.

And so, you know, somebody said to me once, they're like, there's no shortcuts. You know, there are no shortcuts. There's always a rebound. Like if you take a water pill, there's a rebound. You're going to gain water weight until you get it out. I went to a spa in Austria this week. I mean, this year when I had time off last year before I started working for two weeks. And I, you know, because I would go off water pills for six months, gain eight pounds and just struggle with it the whole time.

Then I'd go back on water pills. And I just like, I have this very fucked up relationship with that. So it's been, you know, that's been my one like thing that's, you know, really kind of like occupies my brain. way more than it's healthy. Right. The only thing that I've really accomplished is like not, I used to talk about it all the time. Now it's more about me keeping it to myself because there's nothing more boring than a girl

who's obsessing about her body. First of all, you're right. Like it's so, you know, that girl that's like, oh my God, it's a much. And then I was around a girl like that. I did a lot of traveling and I was around a girl like that who talked about, and she wasn't fat and I know I'm not fat. You know what I mean? Like she talked about the, she did the thing that I was doing.

And I heard it coming from someone else. And I was like, oh, that's what I sound like. Every time I ate, like, I'm so fat. I don't like this. I ate too much. Oh, shit. Why did I eat that? I can't eat that.

It's like, just keep that shit to yourself. Fucking figure it out and keep it to yourself. So I've come a long way in the last, like, couple of years, but I'm still not where I want to be as far as mentally healthy about it. Right. And the thing that I, I didn't know exactly the same path, but I flirted with every single kind of self-destructive. Like, you know, I've probably done all of those things.

I never did the water pills thing. but and I wasn't I just wasn't for some reason bulimia was just too difficult do I mean I think I tried to throw a couple times I was like this is hard it's too much work but you know I mean the number of times I went on master cleanse in my 20s I mean I was just like always on fucking master cleanse yeah and that's a fuck up too it's a ridiculous starving living on sugar calories ridiculousness like thinking that's going to make a real difference yeah no no no long run

yeah no and you lose weight really fast right away and then you eat like and then it all comes back on and you wonder what happened why did I waste a month of my life being an asshole when I could have just been a person this whole time, you know, like living and, you know, but I think I'm really marveled about when I stopped wanting to be that person was how much mental energy I had been expending, thinking about this shit. And I was like, I could have literally cured cancer with all of the mental energy I spent, you know, obsessed. Well, no, I'm not a no, not even close, not even close. I could have knitted a sweater with all of the energy. For a cancer patient. Yes, just a vest, though, no sleeves.

with all of that fucking energy. Do you know what I'm saying? Like that's just a constant obsession about shit that's not important. Yeah, and it's also, first of all, it's so deleterious, like the effect it has on you, the effect, like when you're thinking about things like that all day. Like if you're bulimic, all you're thinking about

is how do I get rid of this food? And then where do I get more food that I can binge and purge? Like, you know, where do I get more food? And then you can't focus on anyone else. You're not available. You're irritable. And it's like everything, you know? It's everything.

So it takes over your life and it's not, and it makes you just feel like shit. Yeah, all the time. And then, also. And your brain isn't working well. No, you're depleting yourself of everything. Of nutrients and of joy. And you don't lose weight. Yeah, exactly.

You just get to pick out for a night. And then the next day you're fucking starving because you haven't eaten anything. And then you overdo it and that's the rebound. Right, right. And my friend who said to me, like a few years ago, she said, there are no shortcuts. It's sleep, it's exercise and it's healthy. Like, you have to be healthy. She's like, any shortcut has like a repercussion.

And it's so true. Yeah. And also, like, I find that pattern. I found that pattern joyless. Like, I was talking to some the other day about, like, eating French fries. And I was like, if I decide to eat French fries, I'm fucking eating the fries. And I'm not going to editorialize. I'm like, fuck, I love French fries. They're so fucking delightful. I'm so happy what I'm eating them. I'm not going to do the thing where I'm undermining the joy of this moment with a bunch of bullshit. And she was like, I've never been able to eat French fries without completely, like, eroding every enjoyable moment about it because I'm like, I'm a bad person. person, am I, you know what I? And it's, fuck, like, fuck living your life that way where you're never actually just having a joyful experience of any kind, you know? That's right. That's exactly right. It's like, now if I go on vacation, I know that I'm going to gain 10 pounds on vacation. That's just part for the course with me. Like, I'm going to gain it. I'm not going to complain about it. I'm not going to say I can't be in my bathing suit. I'm going to be with my bathing suit, like in my bathing suit with my cellulite and my friends aren't going to love me any less.

Yeah, exactly. I put on 10 pounds during vacation. I'll get it off like I always do. And I'm just going to have to accept that. Before it was like, I'd be like, I'd be like, like looking at my body the whole time, trying to get reassurance that I don't. Do I look fat? Who the fuck's going to tell you look fat on vacation? Who the fuck is going to say that? Do I look fat? Do I look fat? Is this okay?

Like, look at my legs. I can't believe this. Those kinds of girls drive me up a wall. So once I was mirrored by myself with another person, I thought, oh, God, first of all, I have to get this girl out of my life, and then I have to get myself out of my life. Right, right.

So I'm not like, you know, the way I'm speaking is like I've figured it out. I have not, but it's definitely been a major struggle. Yeah. And no one's ever ever even asked me about an eating disorder because I guess people assume that I wouldn't have had one because I'm so harsh, but yeah, of course I have. Well, you know, I mean, I'm going to put harshness in quotes because I don't find you to be harsh, but I do find you to be direct.

And your persona is so no nonsense to coin a phrase from 1947 that I could see how people would think that you wouldn't, because you wouldn't tolerate that behavior in someone else, you wouldn't tolerate it in yourself. That's right. You know? That's a great way to say it. Yeah. Unfortunately, I was.

Yeah. Oh, God. It's such a waste of time. Yeah, it is a waste of time. It's really just the biggest weakness I think I have, definitely, and I hate it. And you just, when you can, the thing is, when you can get something out of your life that has a negative impact on you, you're so powerful. So, like, when I was able to get rid of the smoking, like, when I went on that nutritional plan with this guy, Mark McDonald's, who's still a friend of mine, now he lives in Atlanta. So, like, anytime he's, I mean, he's come and lived in my house for two weeks when I had to get ready for a photo shoot and gotten me on the program.

You just feel so powerful when you can control the things that you have weaknesses about. So for me, smoking and quitting smoking, even though, you know, it hasn't been that long, but it's been long enough that I know it's done. I'm done. Yeah. That I just feel like, oh, I am a powerful person. I can take care of that. Yes.

I just need it to really fucking want to. Yeah. God. And also, what that does to you is, I mean, not to be like Tony Robbins, but like what that does for. Just watch that documentary. Oh, is it good? Have you seen it? His face upsets me.

Yeah, it's a challenging face. He's hard to look at. He's hard to look at. He's got a big mouth and a big body. It seems like his whole face was like constructed from other parts from other animals. It's like that cartoon. Is it not? I'm finding Nemo. It's the other one with, I forget, Toy Story. You know where they have a big guy? Yeah. He's shaped like a square. Like his head's a square. Spongebop square pants. Maybe that's him. He looks a little bit like the cowboy from Toy Story too. But that like, I wonder if you have had this when you were, especially when you were in the throes of whatever kind of phase.

of your eating disorder that you were in or your body dysmorphia that you feel, and now I sound like I'm in an A meeting, but powerless. Like, literally like I'm never going to get over it. Get over it. I'm never going to, and this is the other side of it, never have the body that I want.

Like, I'm just being affected by life and I'm tolerating all of this and I can't ever get my hands around it. Like, I'm never going to be where I want to be. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And, and... Go ahead.

But like physically or, but like that this, because on the one side, there's this kind of, that's an unattainable position. Like, you're desiring something that's not available to you because it's not available to anybody because it's not real for anyone. So you can't get there because there doesn't exist. But then separately, this kind of thing, this feeling of being buffeted about by your illness where like, okay, I'm just, I have moments of clarity, but I can't surmount this crazy set of thoughts that keeps rolling around in my head that destroy my joy and, and, you know, make me not be able to enjoy sex or not be able to enjoy sex or not be able to. able to enjoy a day at the beach or not be able to enjoy a meal, that when you were able to stop smoking, maybe it also presented the possibility to you that you could also get rid of all those other, like, really destructive thoughts. Yeah, I mean, I've been working on this for many years, so there's been different phases, and I would just say that, like, I've never thought I won't

take care of it. I've always put it off. I've always said, oh, I'll deal with that, you know, I'll stop doing it. Like, I remember my 30th birthday, I was like, I'm never going to vomit again. I'm never going to throw up again. And I don't think I did for like seven years. Okay, wow. So then, or, and I mean, I quit smoking when I was 27 on my 20, on Halloween. I was like, I'm done with this. I'm not smoking because I was smoking with my friends and I quit that and I didn't smoke

for five years, four years. But things creep up, you know, when you get cocky or arrogant about them and bulimia is something that's much more in the past than just my general body dysmorphia and displeasure with myself. You know, like my, my idea is like, I can eat really healthy and I work out like a lunatic because I do enjoy that and I like the way that it makes me feel. But after the fact, you know, I'm like an angel for three days and then all of a sudden I'm like, I need a brownie. I need it.

Oh my God. I already see results. Look at this. I'm leaning out. Yeah. So it's just that bad cycle that I have to break. So that's always been my struggle. You know, I don't do those harmful as harmful things to myself like I used to, but it's still an issue.

It's not gone. Right, right. I just know, like, if I go out, go off, there are consequences. now. And I can't solve that by vomiting. Like, that's not an option. Like, a 41-year-old woman is not going to be in a toilet. No, it's not cute. No, no, no, no. Yeah. And it just, again, like, it's not just like the few moments you're in the toilet and then it's over at your back, like, it infuses everything. I mean, it's just, there's no

escaping it. Right. I was just thinking about this because I had a day where, like, I didn't eat all day, and then I really, like, I really, it was like a very, it was really bingey. And it was, and I, I finally went the point where, like, I was, I, I finally am at the point where like that was interesting and not like not upsetting. I was like, man, I went ab shit fucking bananas yesterday. But that's what happens when you don't eat all the way. Yeah, yeah, but it wasn't like I'm a bad person.

You know, and that's just trying to get to the point where you're like you're allowing yourself to be human. Yeah. You know? And that happens also with age. Like, you know, when I was younger, I just, I mean, as if like, you know, vomiting or taking a water pill or something is going to give you the body you want, it's not. No, it's never going to.

Those are shortcuts. It doesn't, they have no lasting impact. Yeah. So that is definitely, that's my life struggle. Yeah. I mean, I'm enjoying this conversation. I like you. So, not like you asked or care, but I just wanted to say that out loud.

Because I also feel like it's, I feel like people talk about that with this kind of like a verdied shame of like, oh, back in the day when I did not my shit together. Instead of saying like, you know, getting your shit together is like a lifelong process. And it's not even done yet. I wouldn't even say I have my shit together. Like I definitely think about food and the impact of it way more than a lot of other people I know, you know? Right, right.

And like, this girl worked the day. She goes, what do you do for food? What do you do? I go, you don't want to know anything I do. You don't want to know my thoughts. Don't do anything I do. Go get your fucking advice from somebody else. I'm the last person you want to get like,

here, I'm a powerful woman. Let me show you what I do with my food. No. I'm weighing my food half the time in my fucking office. How do you find that your age is affecting? Because you and I are around the same age. No, I don't think so. You're older than you.

I'm older than you. You're young and beautiful. And my vagina is about to fall out on my body like an old transmission. Just flattering. What? do you find, because we were talking about like kind of self-perception and fame and all kinds about the stuff the other day when we were at dinner. And I, I'm finding that the older I get, well, some of my body issues are increasing just because. What are your body issues?

Well, I kind of, I kind of went through a lot of the same stuff that you did. Maybe not to that extreme, but I stopped weighing myself years ago because it would, it was destroying everything that was happy in my life. Like getting on the scale, fucked me up for the whole day. If I was up, I was, I was, I was, I was fucking wrecked. If I was down, I was happy, but it wasn't like real. You know what I mean? I just, it just was, and it was an obsessive thing where I'd get on, I'd get on the scale,

and then get back on it, get back on it, see if I could get a different result. And then I'd do that thing where every time I go in the bathroom, I'd be looking in the mirror. You know what I mean? Like, a bunch of wasted fucking energy. So a while ago I stopped away myself, and I don't do it anymore, because the number is never what I wanted to be. I'll be really happy with how I look, and then got on the scale and it won't be the right number and it like I'm like okay like all of your perceptions are wrong right I wouldn't I saw I wait myself every single morning I can't do it yeah it makes

me so sad yeah so there's that's in something like yeah something I still deal with yeah I can't yeah I can't the one of the best things I ever did for myself was stop waiting myself and I don't know maybe I'm fatter than I was back then but I can't it it was yeah I can't do it and then um I don't know you know, like, I feel like, okay, so I'm going to mention someone who's like not me or not like me and not like you, but interesting. And I'll mention her by name, although I actually don't remember her name, so whatever. The lady that used to be married to, the guy that's married to, I can't remember anybody his name. Eddie Sibreon, his ex-wife was like one of those housewives, right? Brandy Glamville. Okay, yeah, I can't remember people who don't really matter to me. My brother used to live with me and apparently had her over my house. And that's when I told him to never... Get out. He's never allowed to bring anyone in my house again. Especially not a fucking housewife.

No, no, no, no. It's just that's bad for your Kwan. So I did an episode of cocktails with Chloe with her. And we don't have to talk about why that happened. But she was... That's not worth discussing. She's my favorite. She is the best one.

And by like thousands of miles. She's like astronomically better. And I actually really like her as a person, even though everything they represent, I think, is evil. But so Brandi Kleimba was there. and I will admit that I have no respect for those shows or those people. I think they represent everything that is awful about the perceptions of how women behave. I think they're destroyed, like they're setting back like women's liberation,

like actively eroding all of our advances. And I feel like she's maybe 45. I don't know how old she is. She's under 40s. And she has this tiny little body, right? Like tiny. She's like anorexic. Yeah, I mean, how she couldn't be anything about that.

I mean, and she was wearing like hot pants where like half of her ass was like coming out of the back of the hot pants. And I'm sure she lives on like chardonnay spritzers. Yeah. You know, like wine with ice cubes in it. Something that I would punch somebody for drinking in my presence. And I was so fascinated by her up close because I just kind of wondered what like what her thought patterns are. Like how she lives her life and how she sees herself. Like I would never go out of the house in hot pants.

Like I would never allow my ass to be seen. Yeah, but she has a really nice ass. And I was like... Yeah, but there's a certain point. First of all, I don't even like when young girls do that. It's very upsetting. It's very upsetting. And it's really common right now.

Look at your ass. It seems so... Not even like in an old school sexist way. It just seems like a weird vulnerability. Like, why are you... Why is this what you need people to know about you? That you're like, that's the part of you that you need people to see. But she has an amazing body.

And I'm never going to have that body. and the older I get the farther it goes from my reach. And so I just have this general kind of like, I never am going to be someone who falls apart, but I'm also never going to be like a size two. And my boobs, unless I have them are surgically altered, are just like working their way. Like, they're going.

They're down. They're, they're... To South America? Yeah, to my vagina. And they're friends and they're allies, so that's fine. Sharon Jawsborn would refer to a breast like that as lacrimose. They're just too. tear drops and slowly.

But anyway, I mean, that's just, that's just what bodies do, right? Like, I don't know. I mean, I guess I'm like, I could be the person who's like, I'm going to go get a boob lift, and I'm going to go get a this lift, and I'm going to go do that stuff. But I don't want to do that stuff.

So I'm just trying to make peace with the fact that the body, gravity affects the body. Yeah. Without being too crazy about it. Okay. You know, I don't know. I find that mindset, punishing, where you're like, I've got to look like this one unusual psycho

who lives on, you know, on, I don't know, digestive biscuits and chardonnay. And she's my age. And so why don't I look like that? But like I don't look like that because I've been in an actual life. And I want to go out and eat fucking pasta. It's like you're not a real person. You're not a real person.

Right. Don't you want to have fucking fun? I mean, not drink chardonnay. Chardonnay is so fucking awful. I mean, I want to never drink shardinette. I will not drink and I love to drink. If there's chardonnay, if that's the option, we won't have a drink. No, no, I'm right there with you.

I will not drink chardonnay. And my friend was with, I was with my friend that, she goes, you don't know, like real chardonnay. I'm like, I don't give a shit what real chardonnay tastes like. I fucking, I'm so sick of hearing about chardonnay and hearing this. Smelling it. Buttery chardonnay is a term I'll never ever listen to again. And if I hear a person say that, and that's what Brandy Glanville reminds me of buttery shardin.

That's her poor name. And that's also real insecurity, you know. Right. Like, I'm not opposed to people like doing little things like to take care of situations if you want to. But I'm opposed to the act of wearing shorts like that. at that age. I think it's gross. I think it's gross for any girl to wear shorts like that, quite honestly. It's needy. I think it's, you know, I think

it's damaged. Like, we're all damaged. We've all been through our shit. Everyone's had a bad childhood. I've never met anyone who's like, yeah, it was fucking solid. Nothing bad happening. You know, so we've all done it. So, you know, we're all doing the best we can, you know. I'm not opposed to like doing a little stuff here and there that makes

you feel good about yourself. If you, if that makes a person happy, that's fine. But you have to have an idea of what's not real. and, you know, people that age, it can be sexy. Yeah, it is sexy. You look at someone like Diane Lane or, you know, some of these older women that are, like, Lauren McCall. Like, they probably do stuff, but they don't do stuff like that.

Like, they probably do a little stuff here and there. Like, they don't get fucking plastic surgery or a facelift, which alters the way you look. Yeah, forever. Anything that alters your face forever? No. You know, I mean, I've been made mistakes with, like, getting, you know, filler and looking like an asshole. And then I'm like, okay, that's not the way I want to fucking go about this. Right, right, right, exactly.

I'm not doing that again. And I guess, like, look, look, I mean, there's like cultural pressure to do that stuff. There's a pressure in this business to do that stuff. I'm not even judgmental about that. I'm just, there's a mindset of, like, that I may not even able to articulate. Like, that version of body dysmorphia, which is being human isn't interesting enough or good enough. I've got to pursue this weird standard of perfection, which I can't see. I can't perceive is so inauthentic and so false that it's hard to look me in the face.

Yeah. Do you know what I'm sure she's a nice person? I don't know. She's had a struggle. Everybody has. I don't want to like eviscerate this woman because she's not here to defend herself. But she represents a very specific. Oh, look, I got a bite on my wrist.

Do you have, what do you have? I have bedbugs, fleas, and I have Zika. I have a Zika farm. I have a Zika farm down here. Bug spray. Maybe you brought the bugs with you. I don't know. You're filthy.

I doubt it. I live in Belair. where the bugs are all, when they bite you, gold comes out of their proboscis, or whatever you call it, proboscis. I don't know what that turn is. I don't know what that turned is.

I fell apart at the end. Let's not talk about anymore about how much we hate ourselves. Oh, no, there was something about fixating on yourself because you said you can't wear shorts. I just think, like, listen, if I had perfect legs, I would wear shorts. And I'm, like, I just, I find that, like, inviting, I don't know, there's a part of me that thinks like a lot of girls my age wear shorts and it's fine

I feel like you just want people to look at, I don't know I get it, but that's a little shy and conservative I swear, I mean I know it sounds weird but like I and even though like you know I did naked, topless Instagram posts for a year Tell me about that

I'm stopping you where you are because I'm so curious about Was that? That was you actively taking steps I shamed myself for so much not shamed to myself I just hated my boobs for so many years because I first of all, they came when I was like 12 in the night and one night. And I woke up and I'm like, what the fuck am I supposed to do with these things? And I taped them down with duct tape to school because I didn't want anyone to know I'd like gotten my period over the summer because I was only 12. And then throughout my life, there were just people who were like, oh, your boobs are so big.

I just felt like I had a boyfriend once who really made me feel like shit about it because he's like your boobs are too big. Like you should really not keep those like. And then- Yeah, and I was in my 30s. So I was like, listen, when I finally I just- What man thinks boobs are too big? I don't know. You must have been gay.

He's fired. He's fired. Then I just got to a point where I, you know, I posted one photo and it was just a joke on Putin and me horseback riding. Yeah, I remember. San Diego, Chile. And I just thought it was really funny. And the backlash I received was just incentivizing to me to be like, fuck you. Yeah, absolutely.

People are you going to remove a photo of me topless on a horse when I'm sitting next to a man? Why? Because I have mammary glint, like, because I'm naked. Yeah. And that set me off. And then I just was on a rampage. And then I was almost kind of like. like fuck, I do have fucking nice tits.

Yeah, you do have nice tits by the way. So fuck you. And then I was on a thing. And I'm over it, obviously, because I, you know, as with anything that you get, um, kind of, what's the right word, you know, when you feel like you're making a point, you go over the top and I know, I over did it. But who cares? I don't give a shit.

You know what I mean? Like, you know, sometimes that's, you have to go over the, then I thought it was really funny. Like, the idea that it would see how long it would take for Instagram to remove it. And then it would live on Twitter or Twitter didn't care. I mean, you can walk up and down the street in San Francisco Topless, and it's legal. Absolutely. So it just kind of got me on a bunch of social and political levels that I couldn't let go, and then I just wouldn't.

And I was like, no way. And then I was like, I'm never going to put my... And then finally, I was like, I'm bored with this too. I'm like, I'm bored with my statements. Social change is hard. Yeah. But I like the idea of being naked and people's reactions to it. I just think it's really funny.

I mean, when I'm with my friends and my family, especially, I'm always running around, you know, in pictures and running around on vacation and, like, talking to my brother and then, like, pulling my boob out and him being like, oh, I mean, to us, it's really funny. Yeah. You know, it gets people every time. And so I decided to start sharing that with the world. But see, and again, it's so interesting because these two kind of mindsets are like, like, on separate parallel tracks and totally in opposition. The idea that you'd be, like, spending a bunch of time judging your body and then at the same time, like, putting it on display. I cannot think of a situation in which I would go outside with my boobs.

unrestrained. And my boobs did not come in the middle of the night, but I came when I was like six, and they were big, and they've always been, I mean, no, but like, it felt like that. You know what I mean? They were huge. It was huge. It was literally a Rukas, like, sold after she'd go. And so it was like part, it was like part kind of like post body shaming, because I just realized, like, I do, like, I actually, that's one part of my body that I'm really happy with. I have great boobs. I'm happy with it. And now everybody knows I have great boobs so I can put them away. My point's been made.

This is the last thing we're going to do about a body. I've never had this conversation, and I think I'm going to be so into it. Because the other thing I do that I'm always really curious about is when I see someone, like, okay, so Katie Perry was on the beach with her boyfriend, when he pulled his dick out. Did you see those photos? On the canoe or the paddleboard. They were in Italy.

And, you know, as one does, when everyone around you is fully dressed, you pull out your cock, and then you go and paddle on a board. Right. That's what everybody does. You pull out your dick. Yeah. And you did. I did.

I did. several times. I made me tattoo it. Trying to get somebody to touch it. It's like, why is it so difficult? Confusing maybe, but the tattoo is really beautiful. So I remember looking at Katie Perry's body, and she's got like kind of just this normal lady body, right? She's not like super skinny.

Yeah. She's like round. She's got big boobs. She's like a normal lady body. And I, okay, this is so, I don't even know how to say this. It's not sounding a fucking idiot. But I always, I look at people who have a body like mine,

and I marvel. I'm like, how are they so comfortable in that bikini on that beach when I would be, I put on a bikini and then I put on a dress over it to go to the beach and then the dress just stays on and I drink under an umbrella and I go back into my hotel room. It's very rare that I like, really? Because, yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, we were asking you, like, what's your issue? That's the issue. Well, that's an issue. That is an issue. It's a major issue.

I'm very uncomfortable, like, in a bathing suit and I kind of put it on for decoration and then I actually never use it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm definitely down that. Yeah. But then I see other people with like the same body or something that I might deem as like, okay, she's way less fit than me.

And she's just having a fucking good time. And I guess that's the place I want to get to is like the unfettered enjoyment of life. Yeah, that's where I want to get to. Yeah, without being like self-examining. That's what I'm, you know, that's exactly the thing that I'm working on. Like, who gives a shit? Like, are people going to love you any less? You know, you're going to get photographed.

The worst thing that's going to happen is you're going to get photographed. So I try to avoid places where that will happen. Yeah. I don't want to be parading around and getting photographed. ever, period. That's not my modus operandi. Yes. So some people don't have a problem with that. And some people just are fine if they do get photographed and they don't give a shit. Or they're dying to be photographed. There's a much better lifestyle to be led by doing what they did without giving a shit rather than being one of those celebrities who stays indoors all the time because you're worried that you will get photographed.

Right, right. And what's the fucking point of going anywhere if that's what you're thinking? But also, so we were talking, in the interest of full disclosure, like we were having dinner the other night and we were talking about the specific thing about like that. like the idea of fame and like what your relationship was with fame and how you feel about it how you and I feel like the people that are photographed all the time almost always are courting it on time they want it they're engaged with it you know Orlando Bloom's dick was out for a reason he knew he was going to get photographed you know what I mean it wasn't like a magical long lens where they cut no he was like they're photographers their photographers there and let's get my pick out yeah and like I remember and I think we talked about this the other night like specifically driving down little Santa Monica a few years ago but when she was She was never relevant, but when people knew who she was. And Paris Hilton was walking down the street, and there was like a group of paps behind her, and she ran and then stopped and waited so that they could catch up, and then she ran again.

And I think any time you see people photographed. Like on her little tiny Barbie feet that are perpetually on tippy toe. And I feel like almost everybody who was photographed is photographed because they want to. Most people. You know? But there are people that are. Well, I think you're also, by trying to avoid it, you're also courting it. Like everyone, like people can make their whole lives about the paparazzi.

I'm so famous. I'm so famous. But like the reality of the situation is, yeah, you might be really famous and especially internationally. If you're internationally famous, it's you. But then you just know where to go where you don't get, you know what I mean? There are places all over the world where nobody's going to fucking find you. Exactly.

So I don't. Look at like Matt Damon. When's the last time you saw a pop fucking shot of Matt Damon? Right, exactly. But that's the thing. It's like if you're walking through the street like J-Lo with 18 bodyguards, obviously you're going to draw attention to yourself. You know, if you're walking through the, you know,

do you see pictures of Mick Jagger in paparazzi photos of him? He's the most famous, like one of the most famous people in the world. And also, you're not going to mistake him for somebody else. It's not like he's going to go by, like I wonder who that was. Well, be Arthur, maybe. That's a tiny wizened woman of some kind of unknown ethnicity. But you also can't lock yourself up inside your house. Right.

Or spend all of your time. Because at a certain point, if they're going to get the picture, then they're going to get the fucking picture. Right, right, exactly. So get on with your day. Live your life. Don't you want to travel? Don't you want to see the world?

Like, I know you do, but isn't that the whole point of life? Yeah. And maybe that's not for everybody, but like, I don't want to go sit. I don't want to go to a place and sit in a hotel room for five days. Yeah, and not be a fucking person. I want to get on a beach. Get in the water. I want to dive off a boat.

I want to, you know, go parasailing. I want to do whatever the fuck you do when you get to the place you're supposed to go. Whatever is that you're supposed to be doing. Yeah. So I think it's a good statement to make to not give a shit. So what you're saying is, like, you're willing to go on the beach, but you're not willing to walk around naked in your bathing suit, like, or without a strong or, you know, go. And I understand that.

I've done that before, too. I get it. I get a bathing suit with a skirt on it. That's the next step. The next step is I get a bathing suit that has a skirt. Yeah, that's, that's the last step. I think. I mean, that is not a next step.

I'm a foot in the grave at that point. You, after we're done here, you can get naked and I'll just assess your body. Okay, yeah. I'll tell you. I'll tell you, I'll tell you what's wrong with it. There's so many things wrong with it. We were in San Francisco, and we met, and I was so delighted because I came to see you, and it was just you and your sister.

And that's how I live my life. I just go places without any people around me. And most of the time, you can get in and get out without anybody fucking figure out what happened. Who did you think was going to be there? I don't know. I don't know. I have interacted.

Like the last time we were together, in your show, was in Vegas. There were a million people around all of us. Oh, yeah. And I don't think I assumed you were going to have an entourage, but I don't ever know how people move through the world. You know what I mean? Like, are they going to be anxious about strangers?

Are they, you're in a city where you don't know anybody? Are you going to bring people to give you a little buffer space? A lot of people do that. Yeah. And I was just like, fuck yeah. We walked in the bar and you were there and we drank and it was like the best. And nobody fucking, well, one person bothered us. And she was a delight.

She ordered us shots and then fell down properly after. First of all, we thought she worked there. She was, I told her story like to every person that would listen for like the next two days because this girl comes. I don't even remember. By the way, I was so shitfaced. I remember somebody buying us back. And my sister told me in the next morning, I was like, oh, did she fall down? She goes, yes, and then I remembered.

You literally could not give her, like, any less energy. Like, she was so wasted. She was so drunk, and you literally swivel. Like, if you were an owl, your head turned all the way to the back. Like, you could not look away from her any harder. But she was sweet enough, and she just wanted to buy us a shot. And she was, I don't know her. So no one, I'm talking about a woman.

No one knows. So I can tell you all about her. She said she was a bartender at this bar that we were in, which was clearly a lie. because she was fucking destroyed. And she was wearing a dress that she bought, like she pulled out the, like, the remnants bin at Forever 21. So.

About explaining about the drink we were having that she ostensibly made, like, which was all a lie. All of it was a lie. And she was talking about drinking for Net Bronco, which is this kind of famous thing in San Francisco. They call it a bartender's handshake. Like, if you go into a bar and you order it, you're identifying yourself as a bartender.

But she didn't call it a bartender's handshake. She's like, it's a thing. It's a thing. I was like, no. No, all of these are lies. There's something you read online. You're a liar and you're lying. We all did the shot.

You were really not participating in this morning anyway. No, I know, I can't do shots. I'm just like, I can't. You were like so done. I was too drunk already. It was the best. You had all of your vodka. I was really impressed with you.

And then she walked away and she got her heel maybe caught like in your stool. And she pulled a no points contact fall, like no hand to break the impact. Just she went down like stiff armed head. like ass head. It was so great. And I said, you know, this is embarrassing and you're dying right now, but you're drunk enough that you won't feel the sting of this humiliation in the morning. You're just going to have the best fucking story.

If you're smart enough, you have a story you can dine out on. You should have typed it into her phone, so she knew what happened. I should have asked her. That's in case you are completely blocked out right now. Exactly. This is what happened. I should connect with her on Tinder. I mean like, okay, because I know she's on there or Bumble.

She's alone. I'm pretty confident she's alone. It was great. But like other than that, nobody, like, it's a false construct. It's not a totally false construct, but it is a false construct. I'm friends with a lot of people that are famous. You have a lot of famous friends. You're very important, and your friends are very famous.

Well, and I know the difference. There's a difference. There are the people that can go to a bar and hang out. There are people that can walk down the street and go to a bar. Charlize is one of those people. She can. You can go meet her for lunch, and she parks on the street on Fairfax, and you walk in, and it's her mom and four of her friends.

And she's got a posse that she is close with. Not that she's always with. I go out with her alone. The other night I went to dinner with her alone, and it was just the two of us. But Charlize is like that. She doesn't, she's not worried about proparazzi. And she's a massive fucking star.

So, like, yeah, there are paparazzi outside of her house. Plenty of times I've gone there. She doesn't live her life like that. Right, right. And there's no argument. She's one of the biggest. In the world. In the world.

And not only she a massive movie star, but she's so delightful to look at that if I was a photographer, I would camp like underneath her bedroom window so that I could take pictures. She's like somebody you want to take pictures of. Like when I was at this, I was at this resort or somewhere a few months ago with a girlfriend of mine who's very famous and I can't say her name because she's a close friend. Hillary Clinton. Yes, it was Hillary and Chelsea.

And she, we were at lunch and we were having a salad and we just got into this place and we were like, and she's like, I'm just sorry, she was telling me a story and she's like, I just think this woman's like listening to us. And I looked at her and I went, who gives us a shit? if she's listening to us. What is she going to do? Call the New York Post and say so-and-so and Chelsea Hanlon we're sitting here talking about their lives. We're not saying anything of import.

I'm just going to sit here, guessing. I need you and Viola Davis. I need you and Viola Davis and be having a salad at a resort. I just looked at my friend and I was like, I was going to say something to her there and then I didn't. And then I was like, no, that's her fucking story. That's her shtick. She's paranoid. And, you know, everyone has their own thing.

We all get photographed when we don't want to. Right, always. Yeah. We all get photographed with men when we don't want to get photographed with men. There's no stories about everybody in the press. Some people are more famous than other people. Right. Some people are international stars. But, you know, it's definitely like I always make a check.

Like, are you going to be cool? You know, but then, conversely, this is also a person I've traveled with all like around the world. And she's cool. She'll walk down the street in, you know, in Barcelona with me. And it's, she doesn't care. And so, you know, there's a level of like, I appreciate that because all I care about is really anybody who likes to travel. That's really like my one criteria. God, that's all I want. It's literally like all I care about my life. It's like, are you cool enough to meet me in Spain? Are you cool enough to meet me in Spain?

And I don't have to worry about my house having like an open air terrorist that somebody might see you. Right. Right. Exactly. Because I don't want you at my fucking house if you're going to be a person. Exactly. If you're got to like manage every, because there is, it is like so, I'm a greeting card, but like this is just such a fucking limited existence. Like if you're going around thinking I've got to curate everything I do because I'm worried that somebody might see me doing it. When all you're doing is the same fucking shit everybody else is doing, which is like eating and fucking and farting and leaving the house

and you can like shit in the morning like every other fucking person in the world. And also if you're going to be that diligent about it, then don't, like there are certain people who are just sloppy in their personal lives and they are friends with the wrong people that are biggest gossips and that are the types of people that will call a magazine.

They're needy and they need people around them and they're bad judges of character. Bad judges of character and they're like, it's a very insular experience and they want everybody, you know, and there are people there when you're that kind of person, there are more like untrustworthy people around you I think yeah yeah exactly so marvel at that honestly like the chris brown story was so interesting to me because i feel like he's such a lonely guy and yet he's

surrounding himself by like why are there strange people in your house why is there someone in your house who could then go tell a story about you which may or may not be true apparently because this person seems like they're unreliable this lady who said he held a gun to her head although he's also a pretty erratic guy but like why are you creating a situation in which some fucking not you don't know is going to go call the cops right like why are they in your house what the fuck are you doing exactly that's i i always again i think it's there's like a set of judgment issues there where it's like don't go to yeah and i think you know i don't think you can take yourself that seriously yeah seriously oh my god come on i know just stop it like you just have to i think

i don't know i don't know the answer i just know the way i want to live and the way that i want my brothers and sisters to like perceive me i'm more concerned about the way they think of me and I really am about anybody else. Because the last thing I need is for them to be like, oh, fucking she's lost. You know, they already think I'm ridiculous. So I don't need that on top of everything. You are ridiculous.

Yeah, I mean, I am. I've been ridiculous since I was two, so, I mean, they're used to that. But I can't behave badly around them. Right. How does your family feel about, like, so you have how many brothers and sisters do you have? Oh, my God.

Are you Catholics? No, Jewish. Oh, okay. My mom was Mormon, but I'm the youngest of six. your mom was Mormon? Yeah, my dad was Jewish. We were all raised Jewish. My mom lied about being Mormon for the first 10 years of our lives.

Then my oldest brother died when I was 10. He was 22. And my mom, like, went back to religion after that. Because my mom and dad met. She was in Germany. He was here, and they met, like, she was on a summer vacation, visiting her uncle. And they fell in love, and she flew back from Germany. Or she took a boat back from Germany.

And they married. They eloped. She didn't tell her family for, like, two years. And then she had a baby, my brother. She had three boys. and she had three girls. And then my mom married my dad when she came back and she was German and he was Jewish,

so it was kind of a sensitive. A little bit of like early. It must have been really sexy in the beginning. Don't bring up the fact that you're Mormon. I'm Jewish. I'm going to win this war. You've been enough to be fucking rueful about it. And so I didn't know my mom wasn't Jewish for a long time.

And then when my brother died, my mom became really like a zealot. She needed something to comfort her. and then she became Mormon and then one of my sisters who you have met became Mormon and so they were Mormon and then we all were

we were all about mitzvah and bar mitzvah so we were raised Jewish yeah it's like the only religion I have any identity with right I mean I don't practice Judaism to this day

but if like I had to declare something I would say I'm Jewish right well I mean also I mean I think even more than maybe some other religions although Mormonism I don't know anything about in terms of its cultural effect don't worry you're not missing anything

I read under the banner of heaven that was enough by the way you read that to get more ice. Would you like a fresh drink? No, no, no, no, I just like to add ice. No, no, don't stop it. You can listen to me.

Okay, good. Go get ice while I ramble on. It's in the freezer in the magical box. Yes, I don't know. I mean, it's new. I'm trying a new thing where I keep ice in the freezer. So, but I was going to say more than any other religion, I think that Judaism really feels both like a cultural thing and, you know, it's...

I'm proud to be Jewish. Like, I think I dig it. I think I dig it probably because of the, you know, industry that we're in that was an advantage, obviously, or you feel like you're one of them. But nobody ever believes I'm Jewish. So, like, you're not a Jew. I'm like, yeah, I am. And then I have to be like, Barukata, and my al-Hanah, my al-Hanah, my shirk of the Sherechum.

But, you know, and people will argue that I'm not a full Jew because my mom's not a Jew. Right, and that's bullshit. But that also, like, choose that for yourself. Like, that's your fucking choice. Like, why are you telling me out with my life? I think religion, like, I simultaneously think religion is the base of all evil. And also, I'm very, I'm interested in religion. I'm interested in tradition.

I like that because I'm so not traditional in many ways that I really like. I have a friend who is a modern Orthodox Jew and she has Shabbat dinners at her house and I've gone over at her house a couple times because I love that. I love the tradition of it. I just like seeing families. I like seeing modern people that are religious. I think like a modern spend on anything is always healthy. Modern Orthodox season is mysterious to me though, especially when women are Orthodox.

You can't appear you're going to have sex like for two weeks out of the month. Like you're, you know. There's already enough barriers to having sex without you. adding more. Yeah. I'm not interested in religion, and I don't think I would ever date anybody that was religious. Right, right, right. But I...

It's fascinating. It governs so many people's lives. Right. And I have a couple of girlfriends who are, I think, brilliant, like really intelligent people. And I'm not saying people who are religious aren't smart. I'm saying like, these are just like really thoughtful, inquisitive, modern, wildly intelligent people. Why go to advice on a constant basis? Yeah.

One of them is a minister. And one of them is like a, like a reform Jew. You know what I mean? Whatever. Look at this table. It's made out of railroad ties. No. To a towel.

Yeah, there we go. And I always... She doesn't have coasters. Oh, by the way, my sister thought you were Alicia Keys. She did. She thought was Alicia Keys. She was sort of fair. I mean, I looked just like her.

And... I didn't even correct her for the first hour because it made me laugh so much. That it's so great. Because she said Alicia Keys and then my cousin had come up the next morning after we had drinks. She said, what did you do last night? We were like, we went out with Alicia. She goes, we went out with Alicia Keys and her boyfriend. I was like

I'm all like picked it up right away she's like you mean Aisha Tyler like I think Chelsea's friends with Aisha I mean it would be interesting if she was friends with Aisha Kee's but that doesn't feel that doesn't feel right but like I just I'm always I'm always interested in people who are trying to navigate

this world right now with like all we know about science and stuff and how religion is kind of like kept women oppressed and and they're still like fully engaged in religion I have a problem with it I mean I was not I'm not like anti-religious Do you believe in God?

No, I think if I are pressed, I'm an atheist. Do you know what I mean? Like, if you push me, I'm an atheist. I mean, yeah, I think God is a little silly idea that is a little bit like, you know. People need to feel like someone's in control because otherwise they all have like vertigo. Like we're all falling because like what does it all mean? And it's easy when the world seems terrible to say, well, there's a plan. But the converse of it is.

And someone just said this recently with some British actor. I can't remember saying because I can't remember anything. It must have been Hugh Grant. There's only one. It's only the one. him and Tom Hardy Meow. Yeah,

well, he's a psychotic British actor. One is psychotic and one regular movie. Exactly, those two. One is a much better actor.

Yeah, and also crazy. It seems like he'd be fun in bed and crazy people always do. That's exactly right. He seems like he would fuck the shit out of you. It's like wreck you. And then fucking put a knife to you.

Just somehow you have to sneak away right when it's over, like flush the condom and then jump off the balcony. But, because it's hotel sex, obviously. but he was essentially like why would you believe in a guy that like gives babies cancer and like let's you know women get raped systematically in parts of the world where there's war and you know I mean like that's up to me that's like the fundamental argument against like I did that there's a person on a chair in the sky do you believe in like what do you believe do you believe in like karma or energy or any of that stuff or souls do you you don't believe in souls so I the closest I can get to that is the idea that there's like a finite amount of matter and we're all connected right that like um

And that, like, what makes us go is electricity, is energy, you know what I mean? That there's some ephemera. There's an ephemeral nature to, like, human life. And I'm a skeptic, which means I'm not a non-believer. It just means I need to be, things need to be proven to me. I need to experience them. That's a good way to put it. I would say that I'm a skeptic too.

Yeah, I need to see it. My brother says to me all the time that it's like hedonistic. He goes, I go, why do people have children? Why is, and he goes, because people want to see a reflection of themselves, Chelsea? It's very egotistical to have a child. What do you mean? What do you mean? Why are you asking me some of questions?

And I go, but what, what about the leaves? They, you know, how look at the leaves changing. Look how beautiful that is in fall. Like, look at Central Park. He goes, and then they die and they fall off and there's bare trees. He's dead inside. I like him. It's evolution.

He's a total existentialist. He's completely convinced. He's like, it is absurd. We are a bunch of ants marching on a planet that we were ruining. And we were all going. This is just a phase. This is an era. And we're going to be here for a while.

And then we're all going to be gone. And then something else will be here. See, that could be depressing or it could also be hopeful. I mean, like, essentially, there's a part of that. Well, but maybe it's, maybe if you stipulate to the fact that, like, this is, this is all you have, this is all we understand, this is all we can possibly know. We can make stories up about what happens later. Yeah. We can concept and dream and fabulate and fantasize, but we don't fucking know.

We don't fucking know. Yeah. Well, then be here now and try to spread as much kindness as you can because all we have is this kind of ephemeral temporal joy, right? Mm-hmm. I only have this time. I'm going to try to be kind. I'm going to try to do things that help other people do things. I'm going to try not to be a dick.

I'm going to try to be nice to myself and other people. Right? Like, to me, that can be a hopeful choice. Because what I don't like is when people are like, I'm being nice so I can go to heaven. That's a bunch of fucking bullshit. You should be nice because being nice is what you should do. Not because you're worried about a reward.

And that's my argument. I'm like, Glenn, there's so much more good than there is evil. It goes, that's just human nature. Like, over time, people have become better at being human beings. That's evolution, Chelsea. That's just what people do. You do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. not because you think somebody's watching overlooking at you.

Right. But that is a good reason to do something good. Right. And I'm all about that. Like, I'm all about like, okay, as long as I'm only hurting myself, you know what I mean? Like, I always want to do the right thing. And I, you know, obviously you don't always get to do the right thing. But as an adult, as you get older, like the options become, you know, what is your point?

If we are just a little fucking aunt marching and nobody's going to remember anything about us, then don't you want to have an impact on the people that are around you? That's exactly it. That's beautifully put. That's how I feel. be like if, you know, even like legacy, like we were talking about this. Like I am not going to have kids. I flirted with it briefly. I really honestly feel like, bless this is the religious term, but like, I'm really happy that I decided not to have children. Every time I look at a child,

I'm like, man, I fucking dodged a bullet. I feel the same way you do. Oh my God. Totally. I have no room for it. I just, and it's not that I don't think other people should have them. I just know that I'm not suited for it and I'm better off being, the world is a better place if I don't have child. You're doing everybody a favor, including that child apparently. I feel like. Yeah. Yeah.

That's exactly how I feel. And I feel like the conformity or, which it's not always a conformity, but I feel like if you don't feel it in your bones, these women who are a little bit ambivalent about having children and then find themselves pregnant at the age of 40 or 41 and decide to go through with it just because they think it's irresponsible to have a baby at the age of 41 are doing no one a favor, including that baby that you're about to have. It's so fucked up. It's so selfish and it's so not thinking.

I just think too many people have babies because they think they're supposed to. Too many people get married because that's the way it's supposed to be. Says who. Yeah, exactly. Do you know how fucking happy I am? Do you know how fucking great my life is when I go back to my house and I have my two dogs? I got off the plane yesterday from San Francisco. I know you came back early in the morning.

I went to lunch at Zuni in San Francisco with my sister and my cousin. I had three margaritas at lunch. I went to the airport. I, you know, had a bloody Mary there. I got home. I was in the car on my way home. home going, oh my gosh, I'm so fucking happy that I don't have to deal with somebody who wants to know what we're going to do for dinner tonight. Like I got in my bed, I started reading the New York

Times, and I fucking fell asleep by 7.30. And I was elated about it. Like, I had dreams about my life while I was sleeping. The responsibility, like, I don't do well. I'm not my best self in relationships, and everyone could say, well, you haven't met the right person. Great. If I meet the right person, then I'm totally willing to go there. But I will not ever settle. I will. I will. will not. I will be picky. You need somebody who can fully accommodate you, who can literally fold into your shit without resistance or complaint. And tell me to shut the fuck up when I need to be told to shut up.

Yeah. I'm like, you're too wasted. Let's get you home. God, I have like a series of fantasies about who this person is. I love that. Because I also feel like anybody that would be kind of like high level enough for you, would it like not be willing to like accommodate you in the way that you need to be accommodated?

And I don't like to be. And also, you know, and maybe this is. is it just like an ephemeral time in my life where I don't have to think about it. Maybe I'll have these three years and then maybe I'll have somebody for the next. I always think like you're probably going to be with somebody. Well, nobody knows fucking anything about what their life is going to. Enjoy the time. Yeah.

Oh my God. All this isolation and time. You're not tether to somebody. That means I can go wherever I want, whenever I want. Do whatever you want. Do you want to have for dinner tonight? Where do you want to go for dinner? I don't want to eat dinner.

I told you I have an eating disorder. I just can't eat anything more after 6 o'clock. What the fuck didn't do you not listen to me? Why do you keep making fucking toast? You know that I don't eat bread. of my house. It's not buying shit that I'm never going to eat and it's here now and it's fucking with my head. And yeah. And I just, I think

if you know, who knows what the future brings? None of us can predict the future obviously. So I always am very grateful to the time I have whether I'm in a relationship or in or out of it. Like if I'm in a relationship I'm like let's have as much sex as possible because who knows how long this is going to last. And conversely, if I'm single, I'm like, let's read as much as possible whenever I can. Let's enjoy every single afternoon.

Have seven hour dinners. I want to go on Sunday lunch. to brunch with my girlfriends and drink for three hours and sit there at a hotel or wherever and drink. And I don't want some guy going, what are we doing? Where are we going? What are we going? You know, you've really got to fucking know what's up.

We're not going anywhere. This is it. This was the plan. A wrap on the day. And there's something so, like to me, everything you're saying makes so much perfect. Like I just, I'm like, it's, you know, it makes so much sense to me. What's funny is I feel like when I was younger, and I'm sure lots of other people out there, and especially women, feel guilty or bad or odd,

or feel as if they're being made to feel odd, if they just say, I don't want those things for myself. You know what I mean? I think a lot of people have kids because they think this is what's expected of me or what my family wants of me or what society wants of me. But I even think there's a larger kind of existential, like am I a woman if I don't have a child?

Yeah. But by the way, my vagina is like a fucking Chinese finger cuff, and I'd like to keep it that way. A Chinese finger cuff? If you put the dick in, you cannot get it out. I mean, that's how tight it is. it's your dick is never coming out. I'm going to keep it. Oh yeah. Nothing's ever it's I have like, I have like, so you have to date a bunch of guys. Well, you have to date a bunch of Chinese guys.

Chinese guys. And I only have finger sex. Right. Exactly. You can't accommodate anything. Nothing bigger. I know. It's nice of you to allow fingers inside of you. I hope this is good for you. It's for me because you're never getting this finger back. Um, but when you are someone like you, okay, who's created this really broad, creative wake. What do you need? What do you need? I'm just looking for my lip balm. It's okay.

Are you right? Yeah, I'm fine. Okay. I might get up to make myself another drink. Oh, well, if you do get my one. I'm just, I'm going to, where is it? Do you want your purse? I'm doing it.

I'm doing it. Pause it. What are you drinking? Cockey Americana was very Italian. You didn't know a lot about alcohol. I'm really impressed. I mean, like, you're like somebody, well, you know more about alcohol than any woman I've ever met.

That's for sure. Yeah, this probably will be fair. I love to drink. But I also. I'm also one of those people, like, I feel like I want to, you know, I'm like a foodie. So like my boo's love is also oriented around food, right? Like, oh, I want it to be an experience. Yeah, no, no, I respect that.

Yeah. That's what's great about San Francisco. Oh, God, fucking food city. Such a good food city. I mean, I was like, my sister was like, I'll come down in L.A. I go, no. I'm so bored here. She knows where to go, nothing to do.

I mean, there are some good restaurants, but it's like, come on. Everyone goes to bed at nine. That's very true. Even in San Francisco, that's, I mean, really, if you want to beat, go hard, you've got to go to New York or Vegas. I was in bed by 2.30, but I suppose that's because it was the weekend. Last call at that bar we were out on Friday night. I think they did last call it like 12.30. It was, we stayed.

We closed it, but they were done serving. Oh, my sister and I went home and wrestled for like an hour after that. That makes me really happy. My cousin and my sister and I both, well, I was naked and they were both, I was chasing them naked and they all were hiding. They were both hiding from me. And then I finally pinned my, my cousin's bigger than me, so she's pretty strong, but I got her down. And then somehow we just managed to pass. I left them both in the best.

and I slept in a twin bed alone by myself on Saturday night. Because you're a fucking pimp. Yeah. Because I missed my childhood. Yeah. And then you can relive it because you're a fucking grown-up and you can do what the fuck you want to do. So what was I talking to you about drinking? What was it?

Oh, shit. What were we talking about? Here, use your little thing for that. Oh, thank you. Thank you. But get it back. I will. I will.

It's yours. What were we just talking about? I totally lost my train of thought. The bunk pens I had installed in my house. Oh, legacy. Legacy. Legacy. Oh, that's a pretty serious. That if you're a woman like you who,

created this kind of really broad like wake like you know what I mean you you're in a space that there are no women in you know what I mean and you've been continuously successful in this space and a lot of women have failed in this space and unfortunately for women when a guy fails in this space it's just a guy and when a woman fails in this space women can't do talk can't do late night can't do whatever and you've done it and you've done it on your own terms and what's thrilling about what you're doing now is that finally you're in a space where you really can do it on your own terms and I'm going to go out on the limb here and tell you that I fucking hate it and you've done it and everything they stand for, but we can move on from that.

So I'm really happy where you are now because I feel like it's a better place for you. And you're able to do everything that everybody would really like to do, which is like to speak in an unfettered way, in a long form, in a way that's kind of not governed by like, you know, industry standards and... Right. You know what I mean? And I hate it because I used to work there,

not because I'm just like a person who's judgment. I know. I know you used to work there. So, whatever. I don't care if they know. I didn't speak to them on the carpet for like 10 years. But I wonder, and this is really like a heady question, and very, like very much about hubris. But when you are anyone, if you're, okay, how am I going to do this? Just say it.

Okay, you're a woman and you don't have kids. I think you start to think about what your legacy is going to be. If you're someone who has kids, then your legacy is your children, right? What you're going to leave behind are these people and you're going to try to make them into good people or whatever. I don't know, maybe you're going to be Trump and make them into fucking automaton robot demons. but if you're like a real person, you're going to try to make good people who will like carry on your values, right?

Whatever that is. Yeah. But if you don't have kids, I do think, and you're somebody like you, who's, you know, smart and ambitious and thoughtful, I think you think about what you're going to leave behind, right? Like how you're going to affect the people around you. And it may and I might be thinking about it literally,

but I think it kind of floats in the background. You definitely think about like how you're going to be remembered, but I never associate that with having children. Because you probably never wanted to do it. Well, right. I just think. if you leave enough of a mark or if you pave the way for enough people or you make things non-issues that people assume are issues, then you're breaking down the conversation in a way.

So it's more of like a kind of, I feel like if you're chipping away at something, then you're helping a ton of people in the long run. It's not necessarily like you're remembered in, you know, I don't know, history books or you're not the president of the United States or something where people are going to remember you for generations and generations. but you're doing like you're doing something different. The only thing I don't want to do is do the same thing. Like I don't want to be like other people in the way that like, oh, when they, you know,

when I was leaving eating, people were like, well, you should do this show. You should be on this night and time show or CBS or ABC. Like, I'm like, no, I'm not stepping into somebody else's shoes. Right. And I'm just another pawn in your fucking game. Right, right. I want my own game. Yeah.

And then if I fail, I fucking fail and that would be miserable. But I have a pretty, pretty good idea that if you take a big enough. enough leap, you're, you're going to find out some good stuff. Right, right. And I'm really happy. And listen, you know, it's not easy. It's fucking brutal. It's brutal to start something and have everybody criticize you.

And you put yourself on like kind of a soapbox to be criticized because I wasn't going to conform. I wasn't going to do the same thing every night. I won't do it. You know, sometimes the night, the show is a dinner party. Sometimes it's about completely about Russia. I went to, you know, or it's focused on a city. Sometimes there's in studio guests. And in the beginning, it was, I mean, I've only been on the air for like four months, but it was, it was brutal, like, some of the reviews I got.

I was like, and then I was like, Chelsea, you've never been a critical darling. You've never been. So what was more important to me was getting my feet lodged because Netflix is so supportive about, like, getting you to the right place. And I got off to a rocky start in, you know, my opinion because I wasn't comfortable with a couple of things that were happening. And then once I did get settled, then I know that feeling. I know when you know you're on it. And that feeling, I didn't know if it was going to come. They were like maybe four or five weeks where I was like, oh, fuck, I'm not hitting it.

I'm not relaxed. I'm not, I'm tight, you know. As a performer, you know when you're hitting it. And I was like, oh, shit, what if I've lost it? What if I've lost it? And it's like, I needed that. I needed to feel bad and insecure. Yeah.

I needed it. And I was like, in the minute I got it, I was like, thank you, God, if I believed in you. And in those moments, I believed. believe in something, I don't know what, because there's no other explanation why you could get so fucking lucky that you do, it does resonate. And then all of a sudden, good reviews started happening and people in word of mouth. And it was, if you, if you succeeded everything right away, you don't, you just don't learn anything. You can't be good. I mean, I would, and it's still, you know what I mean? It's still a work in progress. Everything is a work in progress.

Right, right, always. I don't ever want to coast. I like being uncomfortable until I am. And then I go, why the fuck did I do this? Why am I so uncomfortable? And then I get comfortable. I'm like, oh, that was nice. Right. But I mean, I guess, like, that's the thing. Like, I think somebody like you, craving that discomfort, like, you know when you're feeling

uncomfortable, it's because you're growing. Like, literally, the feeling of discomfort of struggle is like the place where you feel like, okay, fuck, I'm being challenged. I'm evolving. Right. Because I agree with you. Like, the worst thing I can think of would be to just be coasting, to be like, oh, I'm good at this.

I'm just going to keep doing it this way. I mean, I could have stayed at E for five more years and made $10 million. dying to keep you over there, I imagine. But I didn't fucking want to do that. I'm like, then I'm a loser. Then I'm not doing anything special with my life. Like, if I'm going to be in this stupid industry to begin with, I better do something interesting. I better go be doing something that I'm proud of where I can at least like talk about social

issues and talk about politics and make a difference. But you couldn't do on that show. Could you do any? I mean, they were always like, oh, you can do it. You could talk about whatever you want, do whatever you want. I'm like, but it's he. I'm sandwich between the Kardashians and some other shit storm. Ryan Lockty, you know, like whatever the, and I'm like, it's not, no one's coming to

to listen to me. If I were to do that on that network, it wouldn't have been received well. It's hard to do something different, period. But, you know, I took a year and a half off, and I was so grateful that I did because I did come back a little bit shaky, but I was, I learned, I went everywhere I wanted to go, not everywhere I wanted to go, but I made sure I made the most out of that year. I'm like, you may never have a year and a half off again. So just make sure I I went and bought a house in Spain. I went to French Polynesia. I learned how to scuba dive. I went, you know, I went all over the world, and I learned to, like, I had, I had, I had, I hadn't traveled alone.

This is really embarrassing to say for 10 and a half years. I think that's probably almost everybody in the world. Like I, like, in the sense that, like, you shouldn't be embarrassed to say that because I think most people never travel alone. I don't think, like, I'll go to dinner by my fucking self and everybody can go suck a dick. And most people are like, I could never sit in a restaurant alone. Oh, I love that. I was the best.

I used to do when I was a waitress all the time. I'd go to the movies by myself. And then once I became successful, like, I didn't fly commercially for, seven years. Really? I just pretended like I had money coming out of my asshole. And I did. I did. Between touring, between being on the road. And you were single. You had no obligations, right? But I would, but with that came an entourage that I traveled with all the time. Right, right, right. Like they're what you were talking about before. It's like, I'm like, I have to get back to the fucking person than I am. And who is, who am I, by the way? I go into a spa in Austria,

what I was talking about earlier, like two-hour detox, I mean, two-week detox spa. And I went by myself and you like get your last stitch of food at like 5 p.m. And at 5 p.m. I'm like, no, what the fuck? I mean, you get treatments all day. Because this is when I should be having a drink and I don't understand. Yeah, it's like they clean out your asshole. You go get your feet. You know, there's reflexology. There's, but it's like a medical place. Yeah. And I just really was just trying to get healthy and to get my head clear. And I had been on all these vacations where you're drinking every night with your friends and renting yachts, you know, like being absurd. But I was like, I'm going to get every experience. I can out of this.

And so I left there and I was like, I went and I went to Salzburg for a day after. And I remember going and buying like a thing of chocolate covered almonds. After I leave the spa. Immediately. Just dirty your asshole. Immediately.

Sitting by this river in Salzburg. Filt up your asshole. Went like all doing all the touristy things because it's such a beautiful part of the world. And you're just like, oh my God, I'm alone. And I get, like I'd wake up at two in the morning there at the spa. You go to bed at five. You wake up at two because your clock's,

all off because your body's like adjusting to the food and the, you know, detox. And I'd be like, what the fuck am I going to do now? I mean, I'd get paddle, I'd go paddleboarding on this lake in the morning by myself and this jumpsuit. And you're just waiting for time to go by. And I'm just like, just keep sitting here. You need to be alone. You need to learn how to fucking be alone. And I was like, you might never not have, if I had a boyfriend at that time, I would have been on the phone with him and he would have been like, come home. You know, being untethered is a really kind of crazy independent thing that every woman should be celebrating because when you're not with someone, you grow. And it sounds gay and cliche, but gay, I mean in the gay way, not homosexual way.

In the fun, awesome way. Yeah, it's just like you have to, you just have to figure that out and you have to sit with yourself. You know, I read more books in that year than I'd read in like the last 10 years. And I'm a reader, so I pride myself on actually making sure I read all these classics I had read. I read Wuthering Heights and I read Doreen Gray and I read all these books that I just never got around to, Catcher in the Rye I'd never read. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I just sat there with myself and I was like, this is good. I mean, it was only two weeks, but it was a lot more than I had, and then I spent some time in Spain by myself in between trips. So that was good for me. I really felt like, okay, you've got to get to know yourself and be alone with yourself. And now that I'm

not in that life, like I don't have access to a private jet because I'm not doing it. stand-up anymore, which is like, you know, I'm not on tour. I don't know. Right. I only do that sparingly. I'm like, go get on a commercial flight. It's good for you to fucking go to the airport. Like, interact with people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fucking prick. So I do it and I'm proud of myself. I'm like, good, you're normal. Like I could go to San Francisco and get a private plane, but I don't want to do that. That's stupid. Yeah. I can easily get on a plane with other people. Yes, exactly. Like, it's not punishing. I was getting to a point where I just felt so entitled and that's not the reason behind all like of my decisions but it was definitely a reason behind

my like travel decision right right right you need to stop this well and also because you are you're your commerce your engine is ideas right you're like what you're what you're doing is like interacting and talking you it's it's very hard to have ideas and be processing and manufacturing ideas when you go from isolated place to isolated place in a fancy way and a fancy car in a fancy plane, and then someone brings you your dinner, and then, you know, and someone fucking wipes your ass for you. And you're like, okay, well, I'm enjoying myself, but I'm not a human being. Well, yeah, you're doing that. And I also thought for a long time that I was getting my ideas from the people I was around all the time. Right. And then you

like, I had never lived alone. I hadn't lived alone for seven years. I had friends or family. People would always stay with me. And that was like a thing. Chelsea can't do that alone. She can't be alone. Right. And I had this roommate that lived with me, this lesbian woman for five years and finally I was like I need you to move out like she was living with you your house that you're at now yeah okay and she was just a roommate friend yeah she was like one of my best friends but it was so codependent I was like I need I need you to move out during this time I was like I need to be alone I don't know why I'm so dependent and this relationship is not healthy you know she's lovely and wonderful and adored me but was like all about me everything was all about me right which also by the way

and this sounds so kind of like paternalistic and and dismissive but like her, you probably could perceive that not only was it not good for you, but like she didn't have a life. Like this kid, this is unsustainable. We're not in a relationship. We're not in a relationship.

Like, go. And again, like, I'm not even trying to be shitty, but like you need to go develop a life for yourself because at some point this is going to end. And then you have not been growing as a person because you were like fucking hanging out with me all the time. Yeah, that's right.

That's exactly what it was. I was like, you don't, your whole life was about my life. And then finally I took a look at it. We got into a disagreement about something. and I was like, wait a second, why is she lying to me right now, unless she's fearful of me? Like, are you scared of me? Right.

Is that why you're lying to me? People fearful that this is going to end. Fearful that this situation is going to change. And then I thought, oh, my God, what kind of, what am I doing to you? If you feel like you have to lie to me, then I'm like, then both of us are in deep trouble. Like, I don't want you to, you're a fucking adult woman. And if you're worried about being able to bring somebody back to this house because it's my house, or whatever, the situation.

could have brought, I was like, I don't, I don't feel comfortable with that at all. And then I was like, and then the minute she moved out, like, sadly, for her, I was like, this is fucking great living alone. I just felt like I'd get home, I'd go to my pool, I'd read, I didn't have to, I didn't, you know, I'd just drank a lot less, I didn't have somebody who was home ready to do whatever. We'd play ping pong until three in the morning and we had a fucking blast, but she was ready to, whatever I wanted to do, if I'm like, we're going to Whistler, we're going to skiing for a week.

We're going to go helisking. We're going to do this. We're going to go, you know, get scuba certified and go to, she was willing to do whatever I said. And I'm like, that's fun and adventurous. But, like, there's an expiration date, I think. Right, right. There's an expiration to that because we're not in a relationship.

Right. At some point, one of you or both of you are going to get in a relationship. Right. And then, like, what is this thing? Right. And also, like, you're a friend. You're not an employee. Like, you need to go develop a life for yourself.

Uh-huh. And I think every relationship has, like, those limits, right? Whether you're actually in a relationship with someone, like, like you are dating them where you're like, it's still important that like you be a person because the person I wanted to fuck had their own shit. You know, you need to have your own shit.

Because if all your shit is my shit, then what is there between us that makes us attractive to each other? Yeah. Like ours, you know, like... There has to be conflict for a friendship to like grow. Conflict difference. There has to be in disagreement. You have to have an argument

and be able to get through it. I mean... Or just fucking get home and I didn't have stories. Like, what did you do all day? I don't know. I sat around here waiting. for you to come back. Like, God, I cannot get a boner for you at all. Right. And you need to be challenged. You need somebody to be like, I mean, my best relationships are people that I've

had disagreements with because, you know, it is another thing, the cliche thing to say, but you become closer and you grow with somebody when you have a conflict. And you, and they say, I don't agree with you. I don't like the way you did that. That was out of line. And, you know, you're stung and you retreat. And then you come back and go, yeah, I fucking fucked up. You know, for me, that's a big problem because I get away with murder in my life. I always have. I'm the youngest of six kids. You know, everybody let me get away with murder. My brothers, my sisters, my parents, everyone was too tired. They were just like, fine, fuck, letter. You know, I was awful. And I, and for a lot of my adult life, I acted like a spoiled brat. And I just,

you know, I don't want to be that way. I don't want to be stomping my feet and throwing tantrums. Are these realizations new? Is this a real? Is this a new sense of yourself? Yeah. I mean, in the past, yeah. I mean, at E, it was the same thing. I'd be like, I'm not doing that when they would call and be like, we need you to take that out for. this advertiser. You can't make fun of Dr. Scholes. That's a, you know, sponsor. I'd be like, fuck Dr. Scholes. I'm fucking listening to you. And part of that was necessary to be like, you know, just fuck you. Don't fuck with me. But where did I get off behaving that way? I didn't. They could have fired me, but they didn't. I don't know why they did. And I mean,

I ended up quitting, which is the biggest joke of all. So that relationship was never even. You know, I was calling the shots and they just did whatever I said. You know, and they'd give me warnings every once in a while. Like, you're going to lose your job. I'm like, I don't think so. I was like, I don't fucking think so. Like, at least with Netflix, I'm with somebody I'm proud to be seen with in public. Right, right, exactly. You know, like, if Ted Sarandos calls me and says, you can't do this a gallon, I'm going to go, I won't. Yeah, exactly.

Because I also, you know why? Because you have more latitude generally to do what you want. So, okay, I can give that up because I'm getting so much of what I want here. I'm able to make the show that I want. Yeah. And I'm not worried about this stupid fucking sponsor or your odd, delicate sensibilities. And the fact that, I mean, one interesting thing about you, and I think was that you, you were interviewing celebrities on your show on Chelsea lately,

but also you were eviscerating celebrity culture on a network that literally has its mouth on the penis of celebrities. Do you know what I mean? Like how could you truly be free to do what you were doing when you were at a place that was like on the teat of like... Yes, you're right. You know what I mean? Like it was never going to be a perfect fit.

And I, that is not a counterculture place over there. I mean, they are not clever. They are not... No, they're not... No, so anything that happened was... never like a directive from them. It was just like, oh, you can do, you know, they just let me do what I wanted, you know, and, and I did. And I didn't have any guideline. I mean, you know, they would literally, the lawyers would call me like, she can't say that, she can't do that. I'd be like,

don't fucking call them back. Put that, feed that in, we're doing it. Yeah. That's how I behaved. Yeah. And while that's nice and badassery in a way, some people could perceive, in the ultimate way, like, ultimately, I don't want to live like that. I want somebody who is giving me actually sound notes that I respect. I want to be in a respectful partnership. You want a partner that you respect that you actually feel like they're making you better. Yeah. So the realization of all of those things, when you take a look at yourself, you know, I had never been alone for, for so many years between books and stand-up and all the stuff. Like one book led to a stand-up tour, and then the next one led, you know, and it just kept going on simultaneous to the show or

simultaneously, I don't know. And then finally, like I was talking to a therapist or somebody. I'm like, what the fuck's up with me? I go, she moved out, I'm alone, I've been traveling alone. He's like, you've never had time to really assess what's around you. And finally, this is your first time off that you've had in eight years. And you're like, and the five years before that

were gearing up for, you know, I was trying to get something going, trying to get something going on several different shows with development deals and whatever. And he was like, you've never been alone. You've never sat in your life and gone, wait a second, I don't like this. Because you're always, you know, traveling, you know, and spinning.

and working. And so it was a good, I was like, yeah, you're right. I haven't. And I don't fucking want to live like this. I don't want to be some girl that's dependent on all my friends and maybe sat. There's an intense, and there's nothing about with being vulnerable, but there's something else in that, like not being able to be alone. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. There's another kind of real. Yeah. And I have a lot of friends like that. Now that I'm out of it, I see it. And whether it's with a lover or it's, it can come in many different forms, obviously. It can be friends. It can be your family.

family, but it's just codependency. And it's like... And just a fear, you know, I mean, people, most people have a fear of knowing themselves. You know what I mean? Like, it's just hard to kind of be like, okay, the fuck am I? That's a hard question to ask. I don't think most people ask it. Because you don't know, it's like, do I like to read books?

Like, you start to go, am I trying to read books to look smart? Or do I really like it? Right, right. And then you're like, well, read a book and find out. Like, how long has it been since you've actually sat? You know, I'd come home from there and I'd be reading such heavy shit that I didn't even like. Like I'd be reading, I'd come home from E. And I'd be reading Kierkegaard.

I hated every second of it. I didn't fucking care about Kierkegaard, but I was trying so hard to balance my intelligence. Balance this other part of your life that felt kind of fluffy. Why don't you try reading a fucking book you like and see what happens then? Yeah. So it was like all of this shit. Yeah. And listen, none of us serious because it's just, we're talking about E.

And we're talking about a great career where I make millions of dollars and I don't have anything to want for in my life. But even whatever you have in life. Well, everybody's shit is there. You're always still an asshole. No matter. You can be living in a trailer park right now and drinking wine out of a paper bag. You'd still be a dick.

Yeah, that's just pretty much the essential aspect of being alive. Okay, we're almost at the end. I really got you for exactly the amount. Well, I could talk you for ever, but I got you for exactly the amount of time that I wanted you. And I, you have this show and it's working now. And I think, you know, what's exciting about it is you were kind of going into something that, some aspect of territory that felt kind of untrue. bred untrodden to you.

You know what I mean? That you wanted to do something was more intellectual, that was more resonant, that felt better to you, closer to who you are as a person, and also maybe closer to you are now. You know what I mean? Because I think, like, you know,

what's nice about getting older is you just start to, your scope widens, you know what I mean? And bullshit goes away. Meaningless bullshit falls away. You know what I mean? What? Like, I guess, this is, okay, I don't know why sometimes

I struggle with these questions. Sometimes they're too big to kind of, like asking one sentence. But this place that you're in now with the show and what it's looking and feeling like, is it feeling like you're kind of in your sweet spot now? Because I also feel like if you're somebody who wants to challenge yourself all the time, you're never quite ever going to get in the cut, which is okay. You know, you're always going to be like, I've got a pivot because now is feeling good.

I think life is full of sweet spots. I think that you get, you know, getting into a sweet spot doesn't mean you stay there forever. I think like, you know, you get there in six months, you're like, okay, now I've got to pivot. I've got to do this differently. Right now, it's so focused on the election and the silliness of that and hopefully, you know, I don't want to underestimate the situation, but

I have a stomach ache every time I fucking think about it. I know, I know, it's awful, but I just can't believe it's like, we underestimated him and now this is a possibility, so let's not pretend that it won't happen. Yeah, let's not not take it seriously. So I think that, you know, life is full of sweet spots and it's full of like what we just

spoke about. Like you can feel like you're hitting it and you're on it and you're productive. And the only thing that I can, I know now for sure is like, I've always known to make myself uncomfortable, but I didn't understand, like, you know, how to take a meeting. Like, I think things came very easy for me. Like, I kind of always lucked out, even though I was going through my personal struggle, the way people perceived my career to go, was like, oh, this is, she gets, whatever, she hasn't had anything, any failures or anything. And it's like, no, that's not how it feels for me. Like, you don't know what it was like for 10 years doing stand-up and fucking

bombing for five years or you don't know what it was like. I know what it feels like. Yeah. You know, not everybody knows. So great, it wasn't your struggle. It doesn't mean it wasn't my struggle.

Right. You know how many times I sat on the phone with my sister crying? Like, am I ever going to make it? Am I ever going to fucking make it? Or is sitting in a shitty little hotel like, yeah, going,

why is there calm on my fucking curtains? Like, I have to sleep in this place where there's cum stains on my curtains. I used to be so obsessive. Like, I would get wipes and I would like clean every surface. And then I would like pull all the stuff off the bed and like, see,

I was never good at cleaning. so I didn't even do that. I would just like hide and sleep on a shirt. Like I would put a, like my shirt over a pillow, and that shirt was probably filthy too. And I would just hope for the best. One part I did enjoy that I actually even wrote about it in a book was like it was like, it was like picking a scab.

It was getting back from the club at like two in the morning. And the feeling of kind of like being with people and then being like dramatically alone. Like you'd had all this adoration. And I were like alone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I would, and it felt like delightful and tragic. Like it was very scab picky. I would get like, I would go to the bar and I would get like, sometimes a bottle or a glass

of like, you know, whatever, Sauvignon Blanc and I would get them to put bar mix into like a giant plastic cup and then I would sit in the bed or, you know, I'd just pick through the bar like the fucking mini bar and like just eat in the bed and watch Law & Order reruns and feel fucking so sad for myself. Oh God. I definitely went through films like that where you're like, I don't know how I do it. How am I doing it? How am I living through this? I was one step away from like cutting.

You know what I mean? I was just like this is my version of cutting. Like eating like a thousand calories with a bar max in the middle of the night in the bed. You have these fantasies when you're growing up with these dreams of what you want to happen. Yeah. And then they happen and you're like you miss it. You miss that moment. You're like, oh, I'm at fucking Madison Square Garden or I'm fucking on stage, you know, at Carnegie Hall.

And you're like you have to remind yourself, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, don't just walk out there. This is a moment. This is one of those moments. And then, so you remind yourself of those moments were like, you know, I always had this fantasy that I would be able to grow up and buy my mom a million homes and do all these wonderful things and then my mom died and I was like,

before I became really successful, she died, but she always was, you know, she always was confident that I would, all these things would happen for me and I didn't understand it. So I was like, I wanted it to be true too, but you're like, well, that didn't happen for me. So, you know, what? So then you have this, like, fantasy of what you're going to do

for your family, you know, like, I'm going to take care of my brothers and I'm going to take care of my sisters. And when those moments happen, they're beautiful, but they're ephemeral. It doesn't last forever. And you're like, okay, wait, that was that, and I was present. And okay, okay, now what's my value? So even though they're beautiful moments and you can have those kinds of things with people,

it's like you really have to just be good at being yourself on top of all of that. Because if you're living your life for those moments, you're a fucking addict. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And you're only living through the reflection of yourself and other people. And it's much more interesting in the long run to see somebody who's able to just really persevere and go after new things and be challenged.

And, you know, like, I fucking hate taking Spanish every fucking Tuesday night. And I do it because I hate it. Because why is my life supposed to be all about it being enjoyed? Like, why am I supposed to enjoy everything? Why is it supposed to be a soft language? I need to know. I've been studying for a year and I can order, I can now get by at a restaurant. First word I learned was yellow, which is ice.

But, like, I do things. Me, vodka. I do things to make myself uncomfortable all the time because I just want to make sure that I don't ever get away with thinking I'm fucking extra special. Right, yeah. I love you.

Okay, we're going to do the last part of the show. It's called self-inflicted wounds. I didn't warn you about it, but I believe in you. Am I going to have to cut myself because I'm ready to? We'll do it together. We'll have matching lines. Sorry, people out there actually cut

and I think that I'm mocking you. Okay, so self-inflicted wounds is a story that everybody tells. on the show about something that's gone wrong in your life that's your own fault. So it can just be anything, anything at all. And it's the story that you run into a bar and go, oh my God, you guys, I was such a fucking asshole. Okay.

This is really asshole. I love it. This is bad. I'm literally beside myself. Because it's gross that I'm going to share this with people. But I just want you to know how fucking fucked up I was in my head. This is how fucked up I was. So I was dating a guy.

He'll remain nameless. Barack Obama. and he and we were in a relationship and he was definitely somebody that was not trustworthy and he had come out to visit me in L.A. We had a long distance relationship

and he lived in New York mostly and we would go back and forth a lot to see each other and I was really bad when I dated him. I was really insecure. I was not myself. I checked his phone. I went through his shit. I was always thinking he was up to something.

because he was. Right. Like, girls only do that because you're fucking up to something. Like, I've never acted that way before in my life with another person. I like to go through people's shit anyway, but not, you know what I mean? It's not to that way. So, and this was a terrible time where I was like taking slipping pills all the time. Just to fucking out of control.

Right. I was out of control. Right. Drinking, blah, blah. And I. All those things make you paranoid, by the way. Yes, exactly. You're like, oh, why I paranoid?

I don't know. This one ambient. It's three in the morning. And his phone, I just figured out his fucking code because I was watching him. Anyway, I was just a mess. And by the way, I'm pro-drugs for everybody, as long as you're a normal person. Like, don't just be a fucking lunatic.

You know what I mean? Don't do them every day and just be able to know how to be an adult. So I try not to judge people who do drugs. So I went through his phone, found whatever I was looking for. You know, even something is something when it was nothing maybe, but to me it was something. Woke him out of his sleep, went off on him, just went nuts.

I was like, you fucking cheated. And he was just like, I can't deal with this anymore. I can't. You just, he would try to assuage me and da-da-da. And I was crazy like a lunatic. You know, I'm so embarrassed of the way I behaved during that time. And this was a long time ago, but still, it was embarrassing. And I don't know how long we had been dating.

Probably not very long or long enough to know that he wasn't trustworthy, but still not acceptable behavior. So we get up the morning. I kept him up half the night, probably screaming at him. We finally somehow fell asleep. And I woke up in the morning, went to my work. I think I was on Chelsea lately at the time. Maybe in the beginning.

No. Yeah, I was on Chelsea lately. And I woke up in the morning and we were supposed to go back to New York for this big Halloween party. And I was paranoid about him spending Halloween without me because I knew that. that he had, like, hooked up on the last Halloween, and that was his thing, like, holidays is a sexy holiday, and I fucking hate Halloween. And I got up the next day, and basically,

after I had found something on that on his phone, that wasn't necessarily incriminating, but it was enough. It was just, like, it was enough for him to have to apologize, but him refusing to going, this is behavior. I'm not putting up with this. You can't go through my phone. You can't, I go, but I found something, because that's not the point.

You were not allowed to go through my phone. That is so inappropriate. And I just went, no, it's not. You have to forgive me, da-da-da-da, begged for forgetting this, basically, throughout the day. Okay, so you'd given all this shit the night before, but then the next day, you're like, wait, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I can't believe I went through your phone, that was gross, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, like a psycho. No, well, you know. I ended up chartering, because he's like, I don't think you should come to New York with me, we're done. I think we're done. And I was like, no, no, I'm coming to New York with you.

I chartered a private plane to New York so that he would have no choice but to be with me on the plane. That's very enticing, by the way. You're like private flight? I'm like, I've got a plane. I'm coming with New York to you. That was. It's just a bad night. I'm sorry. I'm not going to do that again. It was bad. I took an Ambien, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You know how that's fucked up and, you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever I had to. He's like, I don't want to go with you. I don't want to go with you. I don't trust you. You're fucking crazy. You're going to be like this. When we go to that party, you're not going to trust me. We go to the party.

Somehow, I finagle, like, I managed, I spent, I think $280,000 to charter that plane. Like, it was my friend's plane and I said I needed to borrow it. That's, that's what I spent. It was something absurd. it wasn't just like getting a jet to New York, which is 50 grand. It was like $280,000. That's how desperate I was to stay in that relationship with somebody that I did not trust. That you didn't even trust, that you really, on some level, didn't want.

No, no. No. I mean, I don't know. What is, what was wrong with me that I would allow myself to behave that way? Human being. The whole time in my gut knowing this is wrong, everything you're doing is wrong, but I just wanted that instant gratification. I didn't want to think about him at a Halloween party alone without me.

That's how, like, little I thought of myself. So I went, and especially if we were broken up, who knows how he would behave? Because I knew he would come coming back. He was always, like, you know, desperate to be with me, but just, like, trying to put down it. So we went out, we took a supply of a plane home. I could have, you know, we go to New York, we go to a party on Halloween, and it comes up to me at the end of the party. And he's like, I have a girl that we could go home with. And I was like, what?

What? What? I this is exactly why I what do you mean like I you're I don't want to do that I don't want to go home with a girl I don't want to have a threesome and he was like all right all right calm down I'm like no no I don't want a threesome and I I we didn't go home with a girl we went home it turned into another big fight the next we woke up on a side because I imagine you were saying you were just trying to engineer a way to cheat like yeah I was just like wait I just had this fight you expect me to like, I don't want to introduce that into our relationship.

And how could you possibly think I would be okay with that? Because I begged and cried for his forgiveness. He probably thought, oh, yeah, I could get away with this. She's vulnerable now. She's there. It's not cheating. We get back. It was a Sunday afternoon.

We somehow make up, but it wasn't, you know, and that night we came home and there was an earring I found on his bedstand. And I was like, oh, you, this is, you do cheat. You definitely cheat. Like, that was our whole dialogue. It was like everywhere I was looking there were signs and I didn't trust my gut enough. And then $280,000 later, it was like, yes, you did. And he got caught and he finally admitted it.

And then that relationship ended. But that's what I did to myself. And in the long run, you could say it was a good story. But it was, I could have left so much earlier. Do you know what I mean? Like the idea that I would spend the amount of money that somebody could buy a house with because I wanted to stay with a guy made me really think about things. Who you knew in your gut was bad for me.

not, and I've never behaved that way. And for me to have, for somebody, for somebody to know that about me, they'd be shocked. Like, anybody who knows of me or knows me would be like, what? And I did that. And I'm so embarrassed. I'm not embarrassed now because I know that it's just part of the shit that you go through when you're an idiot, but not that necessarily to that extent because, but I'm, like, I'll never not trust my gut again.

And it has nothing to do with that person. It has nothing to do with him even. It has to do with me. Like, what the fuck was I thinking? So that was very harmful to me in many ways. And what was so great about, like, the way that you processed it is like seeing, okay, like whatever choices that person was making, they were making their own choices. Like, my choice was to stay.

My choice was to be in this relationship. My choice was to compromise whatever kind of set of values I had for myself, which, again, is just fucking human. You're not a bad person. Maybe you're an idiot because all people are idiots. But, like, that's just being alive and wanting something for yourself and maybe not having clarity in that moment or in those ongoing moments. And one thing people do, and I'm not even going to make it men, one thing people do.

Yeah, it's not a male thing. No, is make you feel crazy when you're right. Yes. So the big mistake that we have all made is letting somebody make us feel crazy when we're right. You know what I mean? Right. And allowing that. Right.

Yeah. And I'm just, I'm a truth teller. I pride myself on telling the truth, even when it's not, like, receiving, being received well. Like, if somebody doesn't want to hear it, it's like, I'm your friend, so you better, I'm going to not, I'm never going to lie to you. So I pride myself on that, but you can't expect other people to behave the way you do. It's like if somebody doesn't react to something the way you do, and I spent so much of my life getting mad at people because they don't get a joke or they're too uptight or they don't, and you're like, well, I don't know what the fuck their deal is. It's not my problem to judge. Like, judging people is not your issue.

It's like he was a damaged person. I was a damaged person. We shouldn't have been damaged together. We should just stopped. But yeah, that was like a place. That was definitely a time I look back and I just think, oh, you were, that was so gross. The whole thing was so gross from A to B to C to D, you know? Oh, my God.

And then I'm flying alone. I'm flying alone home on that fucking fucking G-5 or whatever I chartered from a friend of mine alone. Like, knowing that I was right. all along. Right, right, but not feeling vindicated. Going with him, going home, going with him all the way to New York to babysit him only to be shown exactly what he would have done when I wasn't there while I was there. Right, right, right. Yeah, that's the frustrating thing is it wasn't like you were able to go home triumphant. Like, I knew it. You're like, oh, God, I could have stayed no way. Yeah, well, you know. Anyway, that's a nice close to your show. Being a skeptic, being a skeptic,

you had to see for yourself. You're my favorite. Hooray, the end. Bye. Bye. That was Chelsea Handler. I really love that. I really love that conversation. I, you know, sometimes I have guests and they are happy to be there, but they don't have a lot of time. Chelsea gave me like the appropriate, meaty, like, mound of time that was needed to have a proper grow-on guy conversation. I haven't had one of these in a while. It was juicy. It was substantial. We were rung out at the end of it. It was just a delight. I hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did. I'm really, really proud of that. Come say hi to me online. There are just a few episodes left. 2016. And if you want to ask me a question for the special all-listener question show, now is the time to do it.

As I say, always, it is, it's never too early, but it will be too late. And considering how ridiculous my schedule is, who knows what the fuck is going to happen. So if you've got a question for me, voice it now, because this is your shot. Maybe you've got a conversation about, a question about filmmaking. I made a movie this year. Hopefully it's going to come out next year. We're in the middle of getting it ready to submit to festivals. If you want to talk about art, if you want to talk about writing a book, if you want to talk about stand-up, if you've got a question about the talk or Archer or Criminal Minds or whose line is it anyway, if you've got some kind of a mole you want me to examine, if you are wondering whether to ask out your creepy neighbor friend, these are all

questions you can ask. I can't guarantee you're going to be happy with my answers or that they'll be useful or helpful in any way, but my point is, any question you have, pose it now, go to grow on guy. net, send me an email. I think you just click on contact when you go there and your email will make it to me and I will click them all and I will answer them all at the end of the year. Don't forget to visit the archive. As you know, Girl on Guy is now

a subscription show but the last 10 episodes are always free and you can listen to them in any variety of ways including iTunes, Stitcher, Iheart Radio, get the app for your iPhone, get the app for the Android. The most recent 10 episodes are always free and the last two episodes are pretty spectacular. Viola Davis was 215,

216, Who was 216? Well, 2017 is Travis Fimmel. That was alive from Comic Con, if you haven't listened to that, Travis Fimmel of Vikings. 216 was Marianne Jean-Baptiste, who's also a brilliant mind and a fantastic conversation. But still in this last 10 episodes, Dave Navarro of Jane's Addiction and Red Hat Chili Peppers, my co-stars, Cheryl Underwood. Lots of great interviews.

So get at those now. And come say hi to me, come follow me, friend me, all that shit online. Just Google my name. the first five or six things that come up will be devastating to me, delightful to you. But after that, you can find my Twitter and Instagram and all those other handles and come say hi, come follow me from me online, say what's up. You guys are the greatest. You are my army.

You are sensational, both individually and as a collective group. And you mean the world to me. Your support, your listenership means the world to me. And if you haven't already subscribed to the show, I suggest you do so because that gets you access to almost 300 episodes of Girl On Guy for a Paltry 79. cents a month. I put the show behind a paywall so that the show could continue to pay for itself. I took advertising for the show, but I was taking five ads a month, and now I'm only doing one. It's not enough to cover the night of the show. As you know, I never did the show for money.

I continue to pay for it out of pocket. But taking that ad and making the show subscription after the most previous 10 episodes just covers the cost of putting this show online, paying for the servers and the delivery systems and this syndication system that delivers the show to you. So That's why that's happening. But it doesn't mean I love you any less. And I think that you guys are literally the best human beings in the world. And you have an impeccable taste in podcasts. All right, guys, I'm going to talk to you next time.

And then meanwhile, get out in the street, kick massive ass. And I will talk to you on the next one. Late. Girl on Guy is a production of Hot Machine, blowing shit up since 2009.