Girl on Guy with Aisha Tyler - girl on guy 221: charlize theron

Episode Date: December 21, 2016

this episode of girl on guy is with charlize theron. that is all.

Today's show is brought you in part by Audible with an unmatched selection of audiobooks, original audio shows, news, comedy, and more. Get a free audiobook with a 30-day trial at audible.com slash girl on guy. This is Girl on Guy. Hey, everybody, welcome to Girl on Guy. 221. Welcome to the show. It's December. It's the holidays. Happy holidays to you. that you celebrate Christmas Festivus for the rest of us. I don't know. Solstice? Or maybe you're just opting out of the whole commercial bullshit

and you're sitting in your house drinking hot beverages, binging Netflix and generally rejecting the oppressive onslaught of this completely manufactured time of year. Huh? Okay. Yeah. I'm a Scrooge. Bah, humbug. having a good time no matter what you're doing. I hope you're taking some time for yourself with this time of year. I think it's an important thing to do at the end of the year, the end of the calendar year anyway, to take some time to rest and reflect and look back at your life and look forward

at what you want and take it easy on yourself. Because I think the holidays are a time when we tend to beat up on ourselves quite a bit. I'm not good enough. My house isn't fancy enough. The street isn't tall enough. I can't afford all the shit my kids are asking me for. Just let yourself off the hook and try to spend time with the people that you care about. Try to get some extra rest. Eat whatever the fuck you want. There's always time to go on a diet next year. Enjoy yourself. Don't do that. Don't do that thing where you say you're going to lose way over the holidays. You're not going to lose weight over the holidays. You're going to eat all the stuff you want. You're going to be disgusting. You're going to have chocolate for breakfast.

You're going to eat cake. The morning of Christmas morning, you were going to reject all previously adhere to rules, and you're going to have an awesome time and you can figure it out after the first. That is my advice to you. Terrible advice. but you're going to have a great time. So I suggest that you follow it. This episode of Girl on Guy is brought to you in part by Audible. And you can get your free audiobook with a 30-day trial by visiting audible.com slash girl on guy. And you can get anything. There's anything that you want. Any book that you were curious about, well, look, I'm going to be exaggerating. I don't know. There's a lot of books on there. And as they would say, an unmatched selection of audiobooks, original audio shows,

news, comedy, and other audible enjoyments. If you go to audible.com slash girl and guy, you get a free audiobook when you sign up for a 30-day trial. And there's so much cool stuff on Audible, including, as you know,

the audiobook of yours truly's book, and by yours truly I mean me, self-inflicted wounds, read in my own scratchy and mildly irritating tones, and you can get that there. But you can get it. any book you want. Any book that you want at audible.com

slash grown-in-guy. And there are so many books to choose from. If you are Dave Eggers fan, all of Dave Eggers books are on there. There are new books. There are old books. Trevor Noah has a brand new book out and is already on there. If you love Trevor Noah of The Daily Show, he's got a delightful accent, and I'm sure his book would be lovely to listen to. The Girl on the Train, that was a big, fat movie. When I hear, it was not as good as the book, and you can enjoy the actual book. by going to Audible and getting that book. Here's a book that everyone I know has been talking about.

It's called Hillbilly Elegy, a memoir of a family and culture and crisis, and a lot of people have been reading it and talking about it. This is a book by a guy who was a Marine and also a Yale Law School graduate, J.D. Vance. He writes about growing up incredibly poor in a Rust Belt Town, and his reflections offer a broader, probing look at the struggles of America's white working class.

And I think we've been talking a lot about the struggles of the white working class in light of this last election. So if you're curious about that book, which a lot of people have been raving about to me, it's called Hillbilly Elegy. And you can find that on Audible, but you can find any book that you are looking for. Go to audible.com slash Girl and Guy and browse.

And you know when you go and you visit these URLs, you are letting the people who advertise on Girl and Guy know that advertising on this show makes sense for them, and it makes sense for you. Everybody wins. You get free shit. I get some support that helps pay to house the show on the servers that we use so that you could download it and that deliver it to iTunes and that deliver it to you. But there's lots and

lots of things. The main thing is you get free shit. Don't worry about the rest of it. Just know that if you click on this link and get some free shit, it helps grow on guy. Another book that's on there is there is some kind of companion fiction to the new Star Wars Rogue one movie that's coming out, including a novel called Catalyst, so you could listen to that. And the very first review of that book is Best Recent Star Wars novel. So I didn't know how many Star Wars novels there have been. I love the movies, but I apparently don't have enough free time on my hands because I do not know there were many, many, many, many Star Wars novels. I thought there might have been a couple. Apparently there is a whole treasure trove of those things. So go check it out. Audible.com slash girl on guy. You get your free

audiobook with your 30-day trial. And, you know, Girl and Guy is a monthly show now, not a weekly show, and so maybe you want to fill up that hole with something else. Go to Audible.com and fill up your ear holes with delightful audiobooks of your choosing. Check it out. This episode of Girl on Guy is with Charlize Theron. I could go on and on about who she is and what she's done. Like, I typically do when I'm introducing people, but I don't really think I need to do that. Now, do I? She is an incredible person. We have become friends. over the last couple of years. And she is a delight to know.

She is as extraordinary as you might imagine. And I know that people rave about how beautiful she is, but really what she is to me is just a fierce, honest, funny, unguarded, driven woman who is trying to do the most good in the world that she possibly can. She has a charity called the Charlize Therein Africa Outreach Project, which focuses on HIV prevention and also violence prevention against women and girls in Africa and sub-Saharan Africa.

And it's a great charity that does incredible work. I've been very lucky to participate in some of their fundraisers. And, you know, I'm lucky to have the job that I have. I'm incredibly grateful for it. And I think the best part about this job is the ability to give back on a large scale. and that's what she's doing with CTAOP. She's a cool lady, and you will find that out in this conversation. We didn't have a lot of time together, but we made the most of it.

And we do talk about, if you don't know the story, I just want to preface this because we kind of did a little bit of shorthand. When Charlize was about 15 years old, her father, who had an ongoing drinking problem, physically attacked her mother and threatened both Charlize and her mother while he was intoxicated and her mother in self-defense shot him dead. It's common knowledge. It's been out there for a long time. We talk about that and I just wanted to tell you about that before we started the conversation so that when we get into it, it's clear what we're talking about because I didn't really preface it

in our conversation. I want to make sure you have all of the information as we start talking about it. but I wanted to ask her about it because we're friends, and, you know, I think you can't live through something that traumatic without affecting you in some way, but she was incredibly honest and present and talking about it. And I think, you know, when you see all the work she's doing to help other women and girls, it helps frame that drive with some clarity. She's a special lady.

You know that already. I'm really lucky to call her my friend. Then I'm thrilled I got to have her on the show. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Girl on. Guy 221 with actress, activist, philanthropist, Charlize Theron, coming at you. Straight out of the girl and guy bunker and ride into your face. As close as you feel comfortable. Okay.

Is that good? Yeah. Charlies, welcome to my show. I know that was a dramatic physical change from what I was just doing, but that's how I feel. You basically just did the arm splits. I did. I did like the end of my gymnastics routine. is what I just did.

Welcome to my show. I'm so excited. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, fuck. Okay, I'm thrilled. I really am excited. You know, I mean, I was going to say the phrase I'm a big fan, but that's like, that's not right because I'm making of you as a person like specifically.

Right back at your sister. Feel the same way about you. From the first moment that I met you, do you know, do you remember where we met? I feel like it was at the, was it the Penn Awards or the, it was. Women of the Year Awards. Yes. That's it. Yes.

And I literally just, I watched you on stage. You were so amazing. And I was like, I need to know this woman. I need to have this woman in my life. And then I invited you to something and it didn't happen. But then we ran into each other again and then it just kind of took off. Yeah. But I remember so vividly just looking at you in this beautiful pink dress.

And I was like, I need to have this bitch in my life. And I went to work. Well, thank you. No, never has anybody said anything more flattering to me than that. No. And it's been such, it's been such a lovely time getting to know you. Yeah. I mean, we're both so busy that it's like, it's fucked up. You want to like, you know people you want to hang out with all the time. Yeah. No one has any time. But it's always great when we do. We have a similar lifestyle. We do. Like, I feel like there's a lot of women in my life, like you, like Chelsea. Like women are just like, you know, out there conquering the world. And I just fucking love that. And so it doesn't matter if we don't see each other for three months. Like we see each other. We pick up right where we left off. And I just, I love. I just, I love. I love. love that about our friendships. And I think it's also nice to choose, and I don't mean like in a calculating way, but you get connected to people because there's something in then that you see that either you admire or you share. And it's nice to find kindred spirits because, you know,

I love that. They're hard to find, I think, actually. They're really hard to find. And I think there's certain people that you, within five minutes, you just know. And I felt that way about you. I felt that way. Like, there's a few women in my life that I was just like, it was just a no-brainer. I was like, I will learn from this woman. She's amazing. Love this energy. infectious. I want to be around it. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so I, because I don't have unlimited time with you, I want to start at the very, very beginning.

And I think, especially because so much of your identity growing up has informed and affected, you know, who you are as an adult, you know, I mean, I guess it's not true for everybody, but I think your identity can drive a lot of your choices. So where were you born? I was born in

a place called Kempton Park in South Africa. Yeah. And what was it like? Like, what kind of a place, was it? You know, because, again, I'm Americans. I don't think Americans, it's like America's a little shit. We don't know shit about anybody but ourselves.

So, you know what I mean? Kempden Park is a, just a small suburb just right outside of Johannesburg. And my family actually lived, didn't actually live there, but it was the closest hospital. And so I was born there. Did you live, you lived outside of, like in the country? No, yeah, we were, at that time, my parents weren't quite in, like, the farmland community. We moved there when I was four.

So they had a very, very small house. They literally just, they were living in a trailer. Wow. Very, like soon right before my mom got pregnant with me. I mean, very, really both of them just kind of like worked incredibly hard for what they had. They lived in a trailer, and my mom told me stories about collecting Coke bottles, you know, and recycling them for money to be able to go and see movies. And that's really where my parents,

and my father was studying at the time. So they really had nothing. Wow. And then when I was born, they moved into a small house and we lived there until I was four. I had my first memory there. And then we moved to the farm. Did you, do you remember that?

Do you remember the difference in your life experience when you moved to the farm? Yeah, the only thing, I have very, very few memories from the house. My first memory ever was of falling into the pool in the winter. And it was a very peaceful memory. There was nothing panicking about it. But the first vision that I can remember was my mother's slippers coming through the water. To get you?

Yeah, to come and get me. And that was my first memory. And I remember a cat passing away there. And those are about my memories that I have from that house. Yeah. Because whenever there's like a dynamic. change. You know, sometimes you remember the experience of the difference.

Like your life changing. You know what I mean? Going from living in something like a suburban house to going to a farm. Were you aware? But the farm probably seems like it's the most establishing experience of your childhood. Yeah, I remember going and seeing the property with my parents and I was just like, wow. It was just, I mean,

it was just so spacious and the people living there before us had a lot of animals and a lot of them stayed behind. And so we ended up with them and it was a magical place for a four-year-old. And so I was super excited about living there and moving there and growing up there. Were you an only child? Yeah.

Yeah. Was it a working farm? Like it was how you were making a living? It was a working farm. And then my father was an engineer. He was studying. And then he started working for a company and road construction. And so he did that for a couple of years.

And then the two of them kind of decided to start their own. own business and they needed the space to be able to hold the machines. And so that's really, truly why they bought the, we call them in South Africa, we call them plots. So they're small farms. Yeah. You know, so they are nothing more than maybe 20 acres. They're not giant. Yeah. And we lived, we, I mean, you know, other than sometimes my mom would stop at a grocery store, but otherwise we really kind of we did live off the farm. You know, my mom slaughtered what we needed off the farm, and we grew all of our vegetables and fruit on the farm,

and we also had our own fresh water. Wow. I think that people think also of sub-Saharan Africa as being very warm, but South Africa is, you know, far down in the southern hemisphere. So did you have like a traditional winter? Like, was it a year on farm, or did you have periods of time when, like, it was freezing? And winter is cold. We rarely get snow, like where I'm from, we rarely get snow, but we get frost. And we had snow once in the time that I was in my lifetime there. So, and I was five years old. And I remember, I remember it so vividly. It was just like, it was like magic. I mean, I just, I'd never even heard of snow. Nobody had ever talked about snow. Christmas to us was, you know, Santa Claus on water skis, you know. So it wasn't like, oh, that's snow that I, that I,

read about, like, I had no idea, and this stuff started falling from the sky, and I panicked. Wow. And then I remember not having any of the gear, and I remember my mom putting plastic bags on my hands to play in the snow. Not that that did anything, but it was a great experience. But, yeah, we have frosty cold winters, and then we have, we get winter rains as well, and the summer is beautiful. Yeah.

But spring and fall are definitely the best times. I have to go. I'm dying to go actually. You're going with me. We're going to go next year. I'm taking you. We're going. We're going.

We're going. We're doing it. Yes. This is a question that I don't even know if I'm going to be able to articulate properly. But I, so I apologize in advance if I don't get it right. No. Don't apologize for anything. Okay, good.

I won't. I will not. What? I think every culture is different. Every country is different. And I think how, in terms of how women raised in that culture perceive themselves. As a young girl, like, what was your sense of what, was possible for you, especially growing up in this particular context, living on a farm and maybe,

you know, like what your cultural touch points were, like, what did you want to be when you were that age? And what did you think you could be? At four? Yeah, or eight or, you know, when you were a little kid, you know? So the first thing that happened when we moved to the farm was I injured myself tremendously. Really? And I continuously kind of injured myself. I was an active child, and I wanted to be busy. And I would climb things. I would climb trees, I would climb fences, I would climb anything, and I would fall. I never broke anything, but I think my mom realized at a very young age that I needed something to kind of focus me. And she took me to a ballet class when I was about four and a half.

And we were a bunch of four and a half-year-olds in the class, and the teacher spent about a half hour kind of showing us first position, second position, just like some of the technical things. about ballet. And then at the end of the class, she played a piece of music, and she said, I want you to listen to this piece of music. And then you're each going to get a turn to do what I just taught you to this music. And so everybody kind of went up there and they just kind of did first position, second position, third position, what they were just taught in the class to the piece of music. And in that time, I was running around gathering Coke cans out of the garbage can and toilet paper out of the toilet. the bathroom and a chair, and I put the toilet paper all over my arms, like strings,

and the Cokean was, like, placed in a corner, and I was hiding behind a chair, and all of a sudden, you know, I came out flying, and I was this creature who was being chased, and I had to drink from this well, and I think my mom realized I had an imagination that could be really a good thing were a really bad thing. And so I fell in love with ballet. Absolutely fell in love with it. And to be completely honest, I thought that's what I would do with my life. I ended up studying in a lot of places. I went to art school in Johannesburg. I think once I found that and my mom was so encouraging of not just that, but other things like music and art, I realized, I think I grew up never even questioning whether I could do anything that I wanted to do.

And I don't know how much of that is just children taking for granted what their parents say to them, because I think my mom said it a lot. My mom's belief is that. But I don't necessarily remember that per se. I just remember growing up an environment where my mom made me feel like I could do anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, she's a tough lady. Yeah. Yeah. But in a good way, like this kind of... But even still today, when I'm in 41, she's like, do it. Yeah. You know, like she has that attitude. And I think that's how I was raised. It's impossible, which is kind of great.

Because I don't think you ever want, you know, I look at my own children. And I'm like, I say it to him all the time, my oldest, because he can understand it. And I'm like, you know, you can be whatever you want. And he literally says to me, I know, mom, I can be whatever. Like, so annoyed by me. And I guess, you know, maybe he'll remember the story of his life as like, my mother was so fucking annoying. She said it every five minutes. My story is more one.

I didn't, I don't remember my mom saying it, but I just felt it all the time. Yeah. You trained in Johannesburg and then eventually were you training at a special ballet school? Was it close to where you were? Were you commuting? Like, did it start to dominate your life? I went to art school. You had to audition to get in in Johannesburg.

the school was called Dekrain. It was in Afrikaans art school. The two art schools, the English art school and the Afrikaans art school were separated back then. I think now they're one school. It was about an hour away from where we lived in Johannesburg, so I went to boarding school. I really loved it.

I loved going to boarding school. I went there when I was 12. I think a lot of people might know this, but my family life wasn't great. So for me at that age to be able to go, and have five days a week with my peers and doing something that I absolutely loved away from some of the chaos that was part of my life

was a really, really great thing for me. So I was incredibly happy. Yes, it was everything that I did with every minute of my day, but I absolutely loved it. You talked about the fact that your home life was difficult, and it's public knowledge that your father had an alcohol problem and he was abusive. What did was it

How I guess how much did that infuse your own life? You got to go away, you got to be away Which I imagined helped you tremendously to not have to be a part of that But how old were you when your father died? I was I just turned I was 15 So and were you home? Yes, I was home.

Yeah When it happened? Yeah I mean I'm sure people ask you about this all the time but I feel like there's like this sensational way to look at this. Like, this thing happened. Yeah. What I think is more interesting is like how it affected you, you know,

because it's, that's just traumatic for anybody, regardless of circumstance. Of course, yeah. And what do you remember about that time? I remember everything. Yeah? Yeah. I remember everything. I don't think I'll ever even, I don't want to say.

this, but I feel like even if I suffered, if I am so fortunate to live until I'm, you know, 90, 80, I think I'll always remember it. You know, I think it kind of lives and breeds under my skin. And I've just, you know, I've had to figure out how I want that to live under my skin. And I think, you know, I'm not the first person and I won't be the last person to go through something traumatic. You know, and I think in many ways, how I was raised really helped me deal with the trauma because my mom had this philosophy about life that was always like, you're complaining about the shoes that you're wearing on your feet. There's a man down the street who doesn't have feet.

And that's just how I was raised. And so when this trauma happened in my life, that's kind of how I approached it. You know, you're not the first person who's experienced this and you won't be the last. So it was a way for me to kind of like get out of my own self-pity and pick myself up and say, you know, millions of other people have survived something like this. So go go do it, do it. Like, do this. Have you carried that kind of philosophy through your life? Yeah.

Because there's, it's a very, it's a very bootstrap philosophy. Did you ever do, do you ever do any work around it? Did you ever do therapy around it? Do you ever, like, find a way? I mean, because some people just don't. Some people just go, this is a thing that happened to me. It's not who I am. doesn't define me.

I'm going to move past it. And other people find at some point that they need to poke at it. So I did. I mean, I didn't. And then I did at 33, 34. It was the first time I went to a therapy session. And it wasn't because of that. It was because of something else.

But, you know, eventually it comes around. Everything comes out. Everything comes around. You kind of have to, like, go back to the beginning to kind of be able to figure stuff out. So I never felt the urge to also, by the way, let me just say at 15 when this happened to me, there was nothing like that available. I mean, it was almost nobody talked about things like this.

Nobody, and this has been a huge part of kind of like where I find myself today in my life and wanting to kind of help other children, especially in South Africa, where therapy was somewhat thought of as a taboo. It's something that weak people do. It's something that rich people and weird people do. And crazy people. Exactly.

And so there was never even a thought of my surrounding people where it was like, well, maybe we should. And I honestly wouldn't even tell you, I don't even think there was a therapist within a hundred miles of where I lived. So that was just the reality of growing up. And then, you know, when I think about that and I think about how I turned out, I'm like, shit, I was really lucky to have a mother that could kind of like help me sort through that stuff. I would have been fucked if I didn't have that. But at 33-ish, I kind of discovered that there were some things, not so much about the event that happened that night, but just about my relationship with my parents in general

that I needed to kind of look at in a very honest manner because I think a lot of my young childhood and teenage childhood, and then also afterwards with my mom, became very much of me having to be the strong one and having to be the one that made things easier. And there wasn't a lot of room for me to kind of make waves. You know, I couldn't really, I didn't want to say anything to, I just didn't want to upset the boat.

Is that the saying? Yeah, yeah. And I feel like kids, children of abuse or children are in homes where there's abuse often become the caregivers. They often become the gatekeepers. And I don't want to get. You know, they also internalize this idea that maybe it's my fault. If I was a better kid, they'd get along.

If I didn't, if I didn't get in trouble, they'd get along. All of that. You take a lot of that in, you know. So it took me about 33 years to kind of like figure out, okay, it's okay to say that some stuff wasn't okay. Yeah. Yeah. And it was amazing. I imagine after that, you and your mom were really clinging to each other.

Very, very great. Yeah. I mean, yeah, after the event, you mean, yes. After the event, yeah. But maybe not dealing with, like you said, the stuff that you needed to say about what wasn't good about it because you were clinging to each other after this incredible trauma. Yeah, I think I felt somewhat responsible for her. Not that she needed it or asked for it or anything like that,

but, you know, the night that my father was shot, his brother was shot at the same time, and there was a trial afterwards from that side of the family. And so my mother was on trial for three and a half years after my father. Yeah, it must have been terrifying, actually. It was a really, and so that period afterwards brought me very close to my mom because I felt like I had to, you know, wanted to be there for her, which was also the moment in my life where all of these doors kind of opened up in your life. In my life personally. So, you know, at 16, I win this modeling contest. I get taken to Italy. I win this world international modeling contest. I get all these contracts. I'm working all over Europe. And this is all happening while my mom is on trial in South Africa.

So I'm going back every two months to be with her. I had to go back to testify. My mother basically lost everything. I mean, literally everything. Because she wasn't able to work or because she was having to pay for her defense. Because my father was just incredibly irresponsible with what we had. Yeah. He was an alcoholic, and alcoholics in order to feed that disease will do very, very sneaky things, and they won't care about their family. And there was a lot of stuff financially that happened with the company and with their finances that my mom never even knew about. So all of a sudden, my father passes away and everybody shows up, collectors start showing up, and they're saying, we're taking the farm, we're taking this, the business, everything. And, My mom and I, but at the time, thank God I started, I had my own job and I was being able to take care of myself financially, but we had nothing, absolutely nothing.

It's, I'm not a big, I'm not a religious person at all, actually, but it's, it's so kind of extraordinarily providential then that you did, these doors were opening for you in a way that you could start to create a life for yourself and for her. I know, right? On your own. You know what I mean? Yeah. And, you know, there's just, one of the qualities I really like about you is that there's this, I don't know, I don't want to sound like a, just there's a fierceness to you that I think comes from having had to forge a head constantly. There's sometimes fearlessness comes from recklessness, but sometimes fearlessness comes from just an understanding of, like, the world and the fact that, like, nobody gets anything handed to them. And I just see that in you. And I admire it and I, because I think too often people are in that position where they're worried about their own shoes and they don't think about the fact that the guy down the street has no feet.

Do you know what I mean? And so they're about, I need to get mine rather than this is just the world and we have to keep putting them foot in front of the other. Oh, I'm so, I feel like, you know, in many ways people look at my life and they go, wow, it's just so hard and travel. And I think, oh my God, the foundation that I was taught has given. me such an upper hand in my life of being able to really know what's important. And I really never went through this period where I had to discover that. I knew that at three. And knowing the power of taking just that self-awareness, like, and doing something with it that's not just about you and not living in a bubble. It's just, you know, I think what I discovered in therapy,

this was really interesting. I discovered I had this. kind of unresolved relationship with South Africa and just the country and what I grew up and that kind of turmoil that I grew up politically. Yeah. And I never ever thought about that. I mean, how often do you sit and think about what influence, how the place that you live in,

how that kind of influences really important aspects of your life. And you grew up in a crucible too. I mean, I just interviewed my mom and she grew up doing civil rights. Like the way that we were thinking and talking about race back then, is so much more a part of our identity than maybe it is of mine because it didn't define what I thought I could do with my life as much as it did.

And it also wasn't in your life every single. I don't want to speak for you. No, but yeah, yeah, not in the same way. But I think when you grow up somewhere and it's in your face every single day, I left South Africa and in my 30s realized that I had so much anger. Fuck. Yeah. I just...

Frustration. Yeah. You know, we don't pick the place. The parents that we're born to or the place that we come from. And I think sometimes we don't pay enough attention to what that means. And for me, it was very damaging

more than I think anything else in my life. Because there's something about the holes and the pain and the brokenness of a place that leads, leave such an impact on a person. And just watching suffering around you in the way that I did,

and unfairness and racial inequalities and just, I mean, just you can name it, it left something in me that was broken. And I think more than anything, I had such an anger about it, such an anger about it, that I'm a fucking, white privileged South African and I'm like this like what does that mean for black South Africans?

I couldn't even fathom it. And I think it was something that haunted me. I'm this dichotomy of like finding fame and success and wealth and living this life that I was living and thinking about where I came from and what that reality was just never let me go ever. And so I think a lot of where I kind of find myself today in my 40s, which has been a really peaceful period for me, has been through the work of CTOP. I feel like being able to go back and say, you know what? There's a lot about HIV that I don't know. But there are some things about this fucking country and growing up in this country that I really know about.

Sorry. I think people are always so surprised when I get like this talking about so. Africa. Because I think people think you let go of a place, especially if you're 16 and you move to America, like, America must be home now. And

I think people are always shocked kind of how emotionally I am still so raw by where I come from and the realities of my home country that have just kind of I think in a weird way has

in many ways made me made me who I am today, you know? I feel like my complexities and my emotion and the things that I struggle with sometimes politically and, you know, in unfairness and unjust, like those are the things that are so part of my South African-ness. And I think people sometimes just go,

Jesus, another white person, like, just stop it already. And I have to listen to that sometimes. But I do think that kind of, no, stand up, say something. because I lived in a country where people didn't do that. And it was so as a child that really, I didn't know then, but in my 30s, I realized that devastated me, knowing that I was living in a world where people could have stopped this at any moment.

They could have. And they just didn't know, and some of them were too scared. Or some of them just accepted that this was the way it was and there was nothing that could be done. Exactly. You know, and when people started dying of AIDS, nobody said anything again. It was just like it was so hush.

Nobody wanted to talk about it, and everything that was talked about it was in half-truths and myths and scare tactics. And so I think a lot of who I am today I owe to the fact that I was raised in that beautiful fucking country, that beautifully broken, fucked up country, South Africa. You know, you made me think of something specific, which is this kind of survivor's guilt where, you know, you comfort. from this place where so many people don't have an opportunity and you've had like extraordinary opportunity and that's not to undermine it or a soft salad at all. I mean, you've worked very hard for it. But I mean, I know in my own small way, I feel, and without all of the additional circumstances that you've come through, I feel guilty all the time.

I mean, just constant guilt. Guilt. And some, my therapist would say, well, you know, guilt doesn't, you know, it's a useless emotion. It doesn't really serve you. But it does make you aware of the inequity in, you know, okay, it's great that I get to have this life. And but there's so many people who won't. And what does that mean if I have any sense of civic responsibility? You know what I mean? And I have it, you know, it's an internal obligation. It's who you are.

It's how you were built, right? Because some people will just go, good, I'm out. Fuck yeah. Beryl Hills, here I come. And my free shit and my bags of stuff. You know what I mean? And diamonds delivered to me, you know, by some asshole in a suit. And I think a lot of people would really revel in that.

And I think that the fact that you're aware of, you know, the joy and the burden of the opportunity that's been given to you, because what's great about it is you were like, okay, I'm not just going to take all of this for myself. I want to do something with it. You know, it's exactly what you said. The idea that I have to always, I'm always constantly reminded that I live in a country where people around me with black skin were repressed. and people with white skin were not. And that's just the reality of how I was raised from the time that I have my first memory. Like, that's it.

That was the world I was living in. And it would be impossible for me not to have that somehow for me. Yeah. No matter where I would have ended up in the world. You know, even I think if I ended up in South Africa, it's still I feel like South Africans are living very much what I'm living today in South Africa with all of the hardships of, violence and and you know all of the stuff that they're facing economic struggle and all of that

I'm not struggling with all of that but but the emotional and this the psyche of all of that I think is in as is in every single South African you also because I read this actually that you have this unique you know and this this happens I think um maybe I don't know uniquely your own race but I was going to say where you know you came to America and you you you you know, to work, it was really important for you to get rid of your accent, right? To be, to be flexible as an actor, just to be able to be a chameleon, right? That was about the job. That wasn't about denying your South Africanness.

That was just about doing a good job at your job. Oh, my God. Okay, first of all, I've never even heard anybody speak like that about it. It's always been the opposite. That's so nice to hear. But it's finally, okay. It's fucking true. But people don't get that.

No. And I have not had the same experience, but I've had people say to me when I was, you know, why do you talk like that? I'm like, I don't know, like, fucking American. Like, what? You know what I mean? Like, what? Wait, what does that even mean? I don't have, whether I sound like a white girl or I speak common American English.

Trap between two communities, neither of which feel totally like your own, right? South African saying you're abandoning, you know, South Africa. America is saying, well, you're not really an American and feeling like you're someone who is, you know. Yeah, whenever I would say something that people just didn't find, you know, know, that whenever there was a disagreement, whether I was saying it about South Africa or America, I was always told, like, well, then go back to the South Africa or go back to America. Yeah, exactly. You don't live here anymore or something like that.

I mean, that's kind of been my life. And, you know, I get it. I think there's a part of me that I have empathy for it. I understand, because when I look at South Africans and I see how they struggle, I go, fuck, I would probably feel that way about somebody who was living the good life as well. So I try not to take it too personal. I think until I started CTOP in 2007, I didn't have a space in South Africa

where I really felt like what I was doing mattered and was really valued for what it was. I felt like before that, my acting career was kind of thought of as like, that's great. The positive people were like, that's great, she put South Africa on the map. But it's like, yeah, well, who the fuck's Nelson? Mandela. Like, let's not forget about that, people. Like, stop. But people were really nice. Some people were very nice about it. But when I wasn't just being the pretty face who was just smiling and not saying anything about the political climate of South Africa, you know, that's when I started ruffling feathers. That's when, you know, when I talked about the rape crisis in South Africa in the early 90s, the Mbeki government didn't want to hear anything about.

about it and I was, you know, I was Al Capone. And so being enemy number one with the current government didn't really get me anywhere. And it took me a long time and many, many years to kind of figure out how to do what I needed to do with the help of the government, but also not at the mercy of the government. Yeah, with or without them. Yeah, yeah. Because it needed to be done. Exactly.

Yeah. And then in America, I feel like, I feel like, look, we just went through a lot. Fuck, we're going through it now, man. I mean, yeah. So all I will say about that is that I've walked away from this recent election, you know, saddened and kind of demoralized, like, everybody. But I feel ultimately I walked away with a realization that we really need to start listening to each other. That's really what I walked away with. I feel like a lot of times when I've said something about America,

even the fact that I have an American passport and I've lived here or longer than I have in South Africa, all of that doesn't really matter to some Americans. Yeah, but I was fucking born here and they're going to tell me my opinion doesn't matter either, so they can go fuck themselves. Do you know what I mean? You chose to be an American. Totally. My point is that we are going to have to, I mean, this country is so divided.

We are going to have to start listening to each other. We just, we are going to have to. Because saying that the other side is just wrong isn't going to get us anywhere. We are going to have to start really understanding why they're saying we're wrong. I have a totally different take. Tell me your take. Well, it's not exactly, what I've been saying to people is because I think people feel like we lost our country. And I don't doubt that we're going to backslide in some ways.

But I, and this may be too, I may be making it too dramatic. but I think about my mother growing up at a time when she had to sit in the back of the bus, just my mother, not two generations ago, just the woman who birthed me. And she didn't even interact with white people until she was a teenager. And people who lived through that

or who lived through Jim Crow or who lived through trying to get suffrage or who lived through pre-apartheid South Africa. And that we're sitting here going boohoo who we lost our country is bullshit. Because if at any point in time at those times people thought we can't overcome this.

We can't surpass this. We wouldn't be where we are now. So this is a momentary setback, which I think always occurs after a great leap forward, and our great leap forward was a black president and this kind of unprecedented period of progressivism. Well, I don't know.

I mean, race, man, race is just, you come from another country. How can we go that far? And then fall this far back. It's just, it's very, very hard for me to grab my head around it. It's depressing. But also, she won the popular vote.

So it's not this, definitive change in direction that everybody wants to say that it is. You know what I mean? The electoral college was put in place to protect white slaveholders, and it's still in place, and it's protecting. You're looking at me like I'm a slaveholder. No, I'm not. I was looking at you like I was talking about some old-ass, fucking,

some old-ass constitutional bullshit that you... But, you know, you speaking, you just said something very, very powerful. It's one generation back. It's not as long ago as we think. We want to think. Coming from a country where apartheid is so fresh and so recent. It's so frustrating that we haven't made as much progress as we thought, but it hasn't been that long. I know.

I always look at the kids that I work with at CTOP, and they're all post-apartheid kids. They know a totally different world, right? But they're, you know, well, young mothers, but these are, I'm talking about, you know, young kids. And so it is a very, very fresh thing, but you wish things could move a little bit faster. You know, I look at my son, he's in kindergarten right now, well, pre-kindergarten, and he's surrounded by a bunch of four or five-year-olds, and everybody in that class just have nothing but kindness towards each other. For all their differences, you know, my son is African American, he's the only black kid in the class,

But everybody looks at Jackson, and he likes to dress differently, and he looks a little different. And everybody in that class just looks at him and goes, that's Jackson. And I drive away every morning when I drop him off, and I go, I want that generation to grow up as fast as possible. Please get in here, start voting. Please. Yeah. You know, because the thing is, this is the next world march of history. We are headed in the right direction.

It's just going too slowly. Way too slow, yeah. I want to ask you about fear. Yeah. Because I wonder, you just, like, even starting CTAOP seems like it would have been such a monumental, something you needed to do, but also something really monumental. And it's become really monumental. But you're talking about the fact that you weren't getting any cooperation from the government.

You weren't getting support. You kind of were trapped between Americans saying go back to South Africa and South Africa and say and go back to America. There had to be some level of like, can I, I guess I just want to know how you deal with fear in your life. And maybe even creative fear, like when you move into a role, like, because I think sometimes I'm terrified. You know what I mean? And I, that's typically when I do, whatever I'm most afraid of is what I choose,

but I wonder how you manage fear, how your relationship is like with fear. Well, I still get scared by fear, which I think is a good thing. And I'm always kind of told by people who know me really well that when I feel like I'm in moments of fear, that's when I'm at my best.

And I don't necessarily feel it. Yeah. until after. And so I think it's a good thing to be scared of fear, but to also be able to live in fear. I think that's just the difference. I don't think, I don't ever want to, I mean, maybe you can,

but I, I, I'm not aiming to live in a place with fear, just, you know, being fearful. I just, I want to be scared of it. I want to know what it is, and I want to feel what I'm supposed to feel, not be numb to that, and then kind of know how to live with that. I think at times creatively, when I've taken on work that have done that to me, it has, like you said, it's always been my best work.

I think complacency is the thing that I fear the most. And so I almost, when I get in that complacent place, that's when I start getting a little like, this isn't good. Yeah. What's the role that's been most terrifying to you, like the thing that you thought like, oh, shit, how's this going to work? I've had many of them. Yeah. I've had many of them. I feel very lucky that I can say that.

I can really look at my career and say that the majority of the work that I've done have been by choice really scary work for me. And then I would say, you know, 20, 30% of it was just fun. Yeah. But yeah, I feel, you know, I just finished something. So I'm kind of like in the headspace of it. But I literally, I just finished it two and a half week. ago and I'm kind of still in the depression of it. You know, you kind of go through this like low, you know, where you're just like, you're trying to shake it and you're not in the hamster wheel of

like waking up and going to work, waking up, going to work, seeing the same people, seeing the same small space, small space, living in this world. And then all of a sudden it's like cold turkey, you don't see anybody, you're not in that place anymore, you're not living in that apartment anymore. You're not seeing that driver. And it's like, it's all gone. And it was a smaller film. and I guess just way more riskier. You know, it's just one of those films that I know, very few people will go and see. And at the same time, it was just really, really challenging material for me.

Because I mean, for many reasons, like looking at the story and whatever the overall theme is, but also just because I feel like I've had the last maybe four years, five years of my career has been so high, and low. And I've kind of lived in between this like Mad Max, like big world to, you know, the dark places world that nobody's ever heard of or seen the film. So that's kind of like been the last five years of my life. And I feel like the older I get and also the fact that I'm a mom and I have two small kids at home and I have a production company, the idea of

giving myself to something that I know will not grab and massive audience. And physically I knew I had to give so much of myself. I had to gain all this weight. And I knew health-wise, it was probably not a great idea. And it ended up not being a great idea. I just, I walk kind of in that and I kind of go, oh, God, what am I doing? What am I doing? What am I doing?

And then I kind of like get myself into a place where I realize what I'm doing. Yeah. I'm doing something that just matters for me. Right. And walk away from it. And don't think about these big things. Yeah. But you have it.

I think, and I don't know if it was like this when you first started acting, but I think as you kind of came into your own, you have this thing where you have made these big radical choices. I mean, I was thinking about Monster and gaining all the weight for Monster or this movie you just gained weight for again or like doing Mad Max where you shaved your head. I mean, these things that I think. So I'm going to ask this question, which is, you know, I wonder,

you know, people are always surprised if you're a bit. if you're a beauty. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? That like somehow you're less committed to the craft. It's just about looking pretty. You know what I mean? And, but I wonder if a part of that for you is,

but not just commitment to the work, but just even a fuck you like this, like I'm more than this thing that you guys keep trying to say that I am. Yeah, you know me. You know, I would say, I don't think it was a fuck you. I think afterwards it was a fuck you.

Because afterwards. Because you chose to shave your head for Mad Max, right? That was your idea? Yeah, but it came out of like a desperate place because we were going to do that movie for three years and I couldn't figure out, you know, it was lucky the movie didn't happen because, not because me, but because Warner Brothers wasn't ready

and George Miller wasn't ready and all this stuff happened. I think for a reason, because I couldn't quite figure out what to do with that character. Really? No, I couldn't. And when I look at stills from hair and makeup tests before we, you know, the two times that we thought we were going to make the movie,

it was disastrous. Literally disastrous. I can't even... So in a weird way, when we got that green light, it was like, I was like dreading it. I was like, who is this woman? Who is this woman?

And I don't know why it took me so long, but, you know, the story always said that she had to kind of melt in with all these mechanics in this underground mechanic world. And not that people didn't know she was a woman, but they just, nobody cared because she just, she fit

right in. And so it was like, what's that world? Yeah. Show me that world so that I can just be that world. And so I, you know, brought up the fact that if we were just all buzzed, like, who would know? Who would know and who would care? Right, right. And I mean, especially

in a place like that in a movie like that where like gender and sex were so, you know, I mean, in the movie they were so, they define so much of how people interact with each other. But there was just a lot of larger statements about gender and about sex. Yeah, completely. I mean, and George, I think, was more aware of it than any of us. George, I think, really wanted to make a film with, you know, you hear this a lot. I'm sure you've heard this too. She's going to be just as

strong as the guy. Exactly. Exactly. Only also sexy. Yeah. Sexy and strong, but mostly sexy. And then at the end, when everybody's fighting, she has a dress on, but she's super sexy and she's strong. Yeah, totally. Exactly. So you're just. We hear it every day and we're just go, fuck that. And George Miller was actually the first guy in my life that said that and meant that. And so I got lucky. I bet on the right horse. He actually delivered what he said.

That was, I loved that film. I loved it for how subversive it was and I think... You just like a big truck. I just like a bad bitch and a big truck. Okay, we're almost done. I knew I was never going to have enough time with you. But here's the question that I want to ask you. This is something we do at the end of my show.

It's called self-inflicted wounds. Okay. And I think it'll be especially instructed with you. It's a story about something that's gone wrong in your life that's your own fault. It can be anything. It doesn't have to be cataclysmic. It could be tiny. Like the first place I go to is just being a parent.

I fuck up every day. You know, I really fuck up every day. And that's just being a parent. Yeah. But I have moments with my son where I go, oh, my God, is this what's going to take you to therapy? Like, is this going to be it? The fact that I just did that. I remember he was like three and a half and he went to his like little toddler school,

like whatever that is, like, you know, where they just like they put them in a class and they just play. And he, it started with one of his aunts who played him to a life crew. I like big butts. And the part where they talk, they go like, oh my God, Becky. Like he just loved it and he memorized it. And he would go everywhere he went. And he was like, oh my God, Becky, did you see her butt?

And he was three and a half going to school doing that. And I was just like, oh, my God, I'm the worst parent ever. Everywhere he went, he was like, oh, my God. So that's the first place I go to. And I do that. Every day I have a moment with, you know, my kids. And I go, oh, my God, I just don't want to fuck them up. But I don't know.

You know, I'll reveal something just in general about me and this makes me a total fucking asshole. I'm really bad with names. I am really, really bad with names. And I have had moments where, God, I don't know why, but my friend Beth will be next to me, and I will be talking to somebody like they are somebody else,

and she picks it up, and she'll literally say something to save my fucking ass. I'm terrible with names, absolutely terrible with names, and it's made me one of those people that are super annoying because I will walk into a room and say my name to every single person because I'm just hoping somebody will return. Yes, exactly.

Because I'm so fucking bad with remembering names. And also it doesn't always work because you say, hi, I'm Charlize, and they go, I know who you are. And then they just keep talking. That's not helping me at all. I want you to feel like you have company. I have the same problem. I'm constantly Googling people in front of them,

and then, like, they see it on my phone. And a new thing I'm doing now on set Because for people out there You'll go on to a show or whatever And you'll meet like 125 people And of course they all know who you are Because you're number one on the call sheet But there's a hundred and 25 people that

You know, and so I learn people's names And I have been calling There are two people in the sound department On a show that I'm on and I'm always interchanging their names I'm always calling one of the other guy's name All the fucking time I can so relate to that And I just like here comes this bitch

She's no idea what's going on So relate to that. I am an absolute worse. Yeah. Well, you have other skills that we're doing. Oh, my God. Thank you for doing this. Are you kidding me? Oh, my God. What a joy. I think the world of you. I just have to say this. I really, really, I think you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, I really mean that. I really mean that. Thank you. I always wish I get to spend more time with you. And I always wish that, you know, but I also am always so happy to know that you're so busy. It's a good thing, you know. But we're going to South Africa. We're going to South Africa together. And we should do a podcast from there.

Fuck, yes. Done. Let's do that. Oh my God. That'd be amazing. Wouldn't that be amazing? That would be amazing. It would be amazing and also really fucking sad because I'll just be crying.

Well, we'll cry together. It'll be great. And I'm excited about that because one thing I will say to people out there is that one of the most exciting things about CTOP is how much it's about South Africans helping other South Africans. And it's just amazing. Like the little bits that I've seen, I'm so transported by. So you and all will just be weeping openly everywhere we go. Exactly.

And then drowning our... And we'll have great food and you'll meet great people. I cannot wait. I'm really excited. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, thank you. You're so amazing.

Oh, my gosh. Thank you for having me. Well, that was Charlize and that was great. And I agree. I'm glad we're in agreement. It's the holidays, my friends. It is time. It is time to be as kind to yourself as you possibly can.

That's my suggestion to you. Be kind to you. to yourself. Take it easy on yourself. Sleep in. Eat junk. Give yourself a big warm wiggly hug every morning when you wake up. We spend most of the year beating up on ourselves. I could be better. I could do better. I want to be, I wish my house look like that magazine. I wish my family look like that television show. Fuck all that shit. You are okay just the way you are. Be kind to yourself. Be kind to the people that you love. Take it easy. There's plenty of time in the new year to self-flagelate. Come and say hi to me online. Follow me, friend me, write me, tweet me,

Facebook me. There's one more episode. There's a special episode coming at the end of this month, which is the all-listener question show. It'll go up around New Year's Eve. And there's still a few days left to ask me a question. So send it on my way, and I'll try to get to everything. I make this show because of you. I make this show because of all of you. So thank you for your ongoing supporting kindness. It's because of you that I have continued to make the show far past the point when it became prohibitively difficult for me, both with my time and my energy, and it's your passion for the show that has sustained my passion for the show. So thanks for listening. Thanks for writing. And I cannot wait to talk to you on the

next one. Late. Girl on Guy is a production of Hot Machine, blowing shit up since 2009.