Girl on Guy with Aisha Tyler - girl on guy bonus episode x7: michael k. williams

Episode Date: September 10, 2021

join acting powerhouse michael k williams and aisha as they mow through surviving childhood, dreaming huge, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, willing the phone to ring, learning to be gangster, going rags to riches to rags again, getting tapped by scorcese, and arriving right back where you started. plus michael follows the devil down into the hole, then fights his way back out again. girl on guy is coming for you. this episode brought to you in part by amazon. visit girlonguy.net to shop amazon.com and support girl on guy, and for all your girl on guy podcast needs. 

This episode of Girl on Guy is special bonus content available only to Girl on Guy app users. And that means you, you special motherfucker. This is Girl on Guy. What's up, Girl on Guy Army? This is a very special episode just for premium subscribers with the extraordinary actor Michael K. Williams. Now, if you don't recognize the name, you will most certainly recognize the voice and the face because Michael has created one of the most most most memorable and iconic characters in American television history, that of Omar on the Wire. It was one of the best shows ever made for American television, and his character was one of the

most extraordinary characters on that show. He's done dozens of films and television shows, but you'll know him as Omar, and you will also know him now as another iconic character, that of Albert Chalky White from Boardwalk Empire. He is incredibly honest in this conversation about where he came from, how he got to be the actor he is today. The conversation is funny, it's poignant, it's heavy, it's deep. It's the kind of conversation that reminds me why I started making Girl on Guy in the first place. I love this conversation. We recorded it in New York, and it's just, it's killer. I can't wait for you to hear it, so let's do this right now. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a very special episode of Girl on Guy just for premium subscribers

with the incredible actor Michael K. Williams, and it's coming at you straight out of Baltimore because, you know, a man got to have a code, and it's all in the game, and it's coming into your face. So thank you for doing the show. I'm really excited to have you here. Usually the show ends up being kind of we start at the beginning, but I actually, I want you to tell the story

about the Hollywood story that you were telling me in the hallway because it was such a good one, and then we'll go back. Yeah, you know, I'm born and raised in Brooklyn. And around the time I started getting into acting, you had to go audition in the city. And my route from Flatbush, I would take the side streets and get on Washington Avenue for those who know Brooklyn because it alleviated a lot of the traffic on Flatbush Avenue to get to the bridge. And Washington would route me around the Brooklyn Navy Yard, right? And this was around the time I had this memory when there were

rumors that De Niro was going to turn the Brooklyn Navy Yard into a studio. And I was like, oh man, cool. They're going to put Hollywood right here in Brooklyn. I don't have to go to L.A. I can just stay right here and work and had everything figured out. My route to work.

I saw myself working as an actor. I saw myself working as an actor at the Brooklyn Navy Yard or Hollywood as I coined it. And I also saw myself still in the the projects. It was like, I was dead serious. I saw myself driving in my little blazer from the projects in Flatbush, you know, to work as an actor at the Brooklyn Navy. And I look back at that now and it's, it's scary, you know, the power of thought and imagination, you know what I'm saying?

You know, I guess, you know, it's a bonus I'm not living in the project. I guess that's a bonus. A perk comes with the perks, you know, but it's crazy. Yeah. Well, I want to, we'll circle back to that because I feel like when you are a child or even not even a child, like a young person, you only can see, you apply your own context to everything in your world. So what you know becomes kind of applied to everything else. You know what I mean? And, but you had a vision for yourself. I mean, that was like you said, the power of thought. You had that vision. And how did you, okay, let's start. Now we're going back to the beginning. You grew up in Brooklyn. Yes. And you've lived here your whole life? My whole life in Brooklyn. And were you always into the arts? Like as a kid, like what were you like?

Did you want to be an actor when you were young? No. This exceeds my farthest imagination, my father's dream. I never saw myself being here. Teenage years was quite turbulent. Experimented with a lot of drugs and, you know, parties that I was too young to be in. Right.

And that was that whole thing. But there was always my girlfriend and my best friend, you know, I hung around with basically my two best friends with two girls. You know what I mean? One was my girlfriend. The other one was a good friend of mine, my best friend. And, you know, she's a lesbian. So she was like my boy best friend. You know what I mean?

And she taught me things and gave me a certain, like, where I was like, you know, real sensitive. and a little timid, she kind of gave me my, you know, Mike, that's how you got to be in the street, you know? Right, right. And we would get together and we would always, like, you know, we had like this kind of vibe with us. We would always fantasize about being, you know, larger than life. We didn't know if it was going to be in an entertainment field,

but we always knew that we were special and that we were larger than life. We would go around the city and pick places that we were going to own. My friend Robin, her building. that she was going to own was this building on Park Avenue. It was on top of a club, a really prestigious club called Regines, and she was going to own that. My girl, Dolores, was going to own the Madonna building in Park Slope, of course, street from the park, and I was going to own five, I think it's one fifth avenue right by the Washington Square Park. So we had this kind of like energy about us. We didn't know where it was going to go, but we just knew that we were different

and special. And, you know, I just, you know, this exceeds my furthest dreams. It's so incredible to have people around you who were dreamers, because a lot of times that affects how you see yourself when I see the world. If you have people who are telling you, who believe, not just of themselves, but of you, yeah, we're going to be, someday we're going to be different than, you know, be in a different place than we are now. When you were young, I mean, were you aware? I interviewed another. actor who he was talking about when he was young, how people would always say, oh, we didn't know we were poor. And he was like, we fucking knew we were poor. You know, and we had no

how did you, did you have a sense of the world that you were in that, I mean, how, because I grew up poor, but I didn't grow up in the projects. And I always, when I taught to people grew up in that world, it's very, they really feel like they were surrounded by intense, like, violence and they were aware of it at all times. Did you feel that way when you were young? Not at all. No. No. I had no clue that I was poor. Mm-hmm. You know, all I knew was the Vannevier projects. I knew drama. I knew the There was, you know, the dysfunctional things that went on in my neighborhood, I thought was to know him. I thought, well, everybody was going through this is what it is.

Yeah. I didn't know I was poor until I became a dancer. I grew up poor until I became a dancer. And plus two, I had a mom, you know, thank God for the mother I had, man, I have. You know, she just instill certain things in me. She worked so hard to not let me, you know, I never went hungry and things of that nature. I always had clothes on my back. wasn't the most expensive, but I always had, you know, things, the basics.

Yeah. So I never knew I was poor until I became a dancer, and I started interacting with other dancers that were younger than me. Right. And, you know, I would hear casual conversation, like, you know, they would say things like, you know, oh, my dad's giving me the car for the weekend. And I was like, what? You have a dad?

In the house? You got one of those? You know, and he gives you the keys to me. the car, you know, and, you know, and they would talk about neighborhoods they grew up in. I would go to visit, you know, sometimes we'd go to rehearse choreography, and I would go by, you know, people, some of these kids had, like, basements in their house that we can go and rehearse choreography, and I was like, oh, okay, you know, started to hit me then. Yeah. When did you, when did you become a dancer? How old were you? It was real late in life. I became a dancer at 23 years old.

Okay, well, then let's come back to it because I want to spend a little bit more time on your childhood. That's so interesting to me, and I know no one would ever, I would imagine that people would not guess that about you, that you were a dancer. And that probably loved to acting, but let's come back to it. Can I ask you, and I can cut it, and you can tell me, but can I ask you how you got your scar? Oh, you could ask. Because I always feel like when people see actors in television shows or movies, and especially they play villains, they always think that the scar is something that they put on them for the part. And obviously now people know you so well after you left the wire and you've done so many other things.

So, yeah, I'm really curious. 25th birthday, barroom brawl, drunk off my butt. Wow. Yeah, nothing, no bells, no whistles. Right. It's just wrong place, wrong time. I zigg when I should have zag, bob when I should have weed. Right.

And dude had a, he had a blade in his mouth. You know what I mean? He spit a razor on me. Wow. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. And you were already a dancer at this point So you were already

Just starting Actually In my early career I had Thought I could be a model You know It was a time in New York You know you just did everything

Model dance, an actor I do it art You know rap You know It was that kind of energy And so I had dabbled in modeling And ironically I had landed

What's the word you're looking for Campaign Right With this company called Rock Embassy And they used to make All the Tour jackets for various recording artists,

Queen Latifah, Public Enemy, Madonna, Janet Jackson, you know, and I was a spokesperson, me and a good friend of mine, Charles Malik Whitfield, a phenomenal actor as well. And the day that, that ad hit right on magazines, and it hit the newsstands,

and there were snipes all over the city. That hit November 21st. And that had November 20th, and the eve, the night of the November 21st, the eve of my birthday, I got my buck 15 a phase. Wow. And when that happened, did you have an immediate sense that, okay, I'm not going to, like, I mean, what was going through your mind when it happened?

Or when you came to a realization of what had happened? The first thing I thought was, okay, I'm getting ready to die. You know, my mother always says, you know, things happen in threes. So here I am I had a I had never had I've never a street fight I was never into that

that violence you know what I mean My mother didn't allow that in the household So here I am in a ballroom brawl On my 25th birthday My face in my neck mauled open And I had two grand theft Auto charges I was facing And I was like okay

You know so my mother She took out extra life insurance Because she knew she was getting ready to bury me She just knew I wasn't going to make it past 30 So that was the first thing that went to my mind. I'm focused. It's what it must feel like

when you're getting ready to die. And how I dealt with it, you know, I didn't really. I just was not, I didn't have the capacity to feel this and to go through it

and to allow this to take on my emotions. It wasn't built like that. So I treated it like a pimple. You know, just like, oh, it's a pimple. A big pimple. You know what I mean? It's going to go away.

And I told everybody, if I didn't tell you, I was in a car accident and hit the windshield, My favorite story was I discovered that I was from the same tribe as seal, and these are my markings. That's what I went with. I went with that more than a car accident.

That's more exciting. I'm African, man. Seale's tribe. That's incredible. So, look, you're growing up in, and look, people who have never been to or seen the projects have one idea about it, people who have lived in and have another idea. There's a bunch of us in the middle. I was the kid who lived right across the straight from the projects, right?

Like we had a run down house at the door on the projects, you know, just straight, in and a straight line in and out. I know, I know your relationship with the hood. Yeah, right. You're right there. And it right on the edge, you know what I mean? And I think a lot of everybody's conceptions of it are wrong. You know what I mean?

But I'm always so curious because I don't think you can be a great. actor without a really expansive sense of the world and of yourself. You know what I mean? Because you have to be able to imagine anything. When you were young, what did you want to do? Who, like, who did you, what did you think you would do? Because obviously then you went through a lot of drama on, you know, you were an artist, but you also were going through a lot of shit. What did you, how did you, like when you were a kid, what did you see yourself doing as an adult? No clue. No idea? Not a, not a clue, which led to a lot of reckless behavior. And, and, And just, you know, I had a, you know, I didn't have good friend picking skills.

I had a huge need to be accepted, very low self-esteem. So it's just like, I just kind of just, you know, went with the wind. I didn't have any direction. I didn't do well in school. It was just, I was, you know, as a young adult, teenager young adult, I was extremely lost. Do you also feel like growing up in an environment like that where, you know, like you said, there's drama going on in the streets, there's violence, a lot of times it can be like, like a prison yard where you want to allow yourself with somebody strong.

If you're not going to, you know what I mean, because you feel like that's what's going to protect you. Absolutely. And, you know, my friend Robin, she was that for me. She was like, you know, she fought for me. She beat up boys, you know, were picking on me at times. You know, but even though there was a lot of darkness growing up, you know, my childhood, you know, like I said, I didn't realize that that was not the

norm until I stepped out of it. There was a lot of fun. I had a lot of fun. It was a lot of love. You know, I really loved my childhood growing up in the Vandevere. It was a really special time. It was turbulent, but I wouldn't trade it for the world. And do you have any people you're close to you that are still there now?

Yes, I do. Yes, I do. And I still visit. You go back? Yeah, yeah. Do people freak out? You know, actually, the neighborhood has changed so much. You know, it's like a revolving door.

You know, no one from my childhood, there was a huge raid in the early 2000s, and a lot of my friends got arrested, who didn't get arrested, moved out, you know, people die. So there's about three women that I still visit there, are good friends of mine. And where's Robin? Robin lives in New Jersey. Yeah, you know, she and she's become my church buddy now. You know, yeah, she's, you know, she, you know, yeah, you know, some people you just can't, you know, you don't, they stay with you felt. Oh, yeah, their family. Yeah.

Oh, those people that should come up with are family. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the guys that I knew that I was 10, 11, 12, that they're, that's, those are still my closest friends. And when I go home, that's, those are like your brothers, you know, yeah. Don't have, that's, that's not the norm for me. I don't, you know, most of the people that I grew up with, we all, you know, moved on our lives, you know, the Van of it was like that, the era that I grew up in. is, we're scattered, you know, but there's, you know, there's one or two, maybe three that I was able to keep in contact with on a regular basis.

So you're in your teens and you said you were lost and you obviously were going through a lot. Had you, did you have, let me see if I want to, I want to articulate this, had you created a life for yourself that was about making money? Was it about where you, was it about stealing things? Was it about selling things? Was it just about go with the flow? Were you a hustler?

Like, how did you see yourself at that time? Because it seems like at that point you were into something. The only thing I was into was partying. I love to party. I love going out to the clubs. I love being with Robin and Dolores. And we had our little, we had our little code names. I was heavily influenced by the film Purple Rain.

Yeah. I was Prince. Dolores, she was Jerome. And Robin was Morris Day. And we had that little thing. I just love staying in that bubble. A lot of drugs, a lot of parties. And just, you know, that was pretty much, you know, what I did.

Right. And then you said you had two GTAs. So that was when you were in your early 20s. What took you from that life, which I guess I can see going out to the clubs and dancing? Like, what took you into dancer? What was the first step that you took towards the arts? Okay. That bubble that I was in with my two.

friends that came to a harsh reality that I became an addict. You know, I was 21 years old, 21, 22, and I was hooked on cocaine, burnt out, and just, like, really out of it. So I went, that was my first time at a, what you call it, a therapeutic community. I went away for 13 months. I came home. I was 22, going on 23. And I decided. Did you choose to go into rehab or were you?

Yeah, yeah. No, it was a mandate. So that was something you wanted for yourself. My mother had a lot to help with that decision. Yeah. Yeah, I got cracked upside the head. My brothers, it was like my family was not accepting the fact that I was going to, you know, get lost to the streets. That wasn't really an option for me.

Right. It's either, you know, straighten up or die pretty much. You know, so I went and I came out and I decided to try to get my head together. and I enrolled myself at BMCC. I was studying business management, and then I got lucky and got a really good job at Pfizer Pharmaceuticals. Oh, wow.

And I was doing good. I was working. It was about a year had passed. And then boom, I see this Janet Jackson video, The Rhythm Nation project, and something stirred in me. It's just like my head exploded, and I was like, you know,

because as I was partying, there was one thing that I always knew that I was good at, which was dancing. I was always in the circle. I was always with the new dancing. Everybody looked to me, see what Mike was dance, how Mike was dancing, what he was doing. And so when I saw this Rhythm Nation video,

I was like, you know, I really, you know, a lot of things hit me about that video. One was, I love the type of dancing. She was doing. She was strong. It was militant. And it looked, it looked almost, it had a gangster.

Yeah, it was aggressive. I remember, yeah. And it spoke to me. Two was I love the unity that she was talking about. And then three, when I looked at the imagery and you see this little dark skin, a nappy-headed, big-lipped little boy running around, the Tyron Turner, running around in this dark, damp factory loss trying to find his way out. Boy, what a connection.

And I said that I looked at her and I said, yo, this chick understands me. If she can do music like this and shoot a video like this and in this imagery, I said she spoke to me now. And I went on a quest to find her and become a background dancer. Really? Oh, wow. Oh, I love it. I love that, though. You know, it's like, I'm sure that when you said it to your friends or even when you say it now, you think, oh, it's crazy.

But that's like that aggression, that I'm going to have a dream and I'm going to chase it down. Like, you don't do anything great by thinking, let me, let me see what happened. You know what I mean? I was on a mission to find you. Jackson. I mean, I looked back at it now, man. It's kind of embarrassing. You know, I dressed in all black. I had the Dr. Martin's with my jeans tucked in it. And, you know, I wasn't going to put the key chain in my ear, but I went and got the silver hoops. You know what I mean? You know, I was just, like, you know, we could be anywhere. If a car drove by and played any one of

Janet's videos on that record, I knew all the choreography. I was sitting in my mom crib, mom's house and I would watch the videos and and that's how I learned to catch choreography and to count but it was weird because you know when you look at the TV you have to do everything opposite because you know right yeah so in case I met her got a chance to audition I got to be able to go in the same direction the kids are going right I love it and um that got the ball rolling yeah so so you it was so at this point yourself taught you're just dancing and learning everything and then what moved you into that world because then you were talking about you

were interacting with other dancers and Well, I quit. I quit school. I quit my job. How did your mother feel about that? That didn't go over well. In fact, that went over so horribly that, you know, her mother is like, you know, she didn't kick me out. She gets mad when I say this, but I was homeless for a while because I didn't want to hear her mouth, basically. I want to do what I want to do. And it was kind of like, you know, can you curse? Yes. Oh, you can curse your ass off. It was kind of like, you know, I kind of like say, fuck you, my mother. I was like, you know what?

Because I had a lot of pressure to be like my older brothers, you know, and to be decent. And the one that I grew closest to, you know, is an educator, really smart, good boy, never did anything wrong. And it was kind of his pressure to kind of be like him. So I was like a way to say, man, fuck y'all. I'm going to do my thing. Yeah. And, you know, so I quit school. I quit my job.

I was bouncing around. And it was during this time that, you know, the slashing came and, you know, I got cut up and everything. So one night, I was working at The Gap, and I met my first dance partner's kid named Chad Brown from Brooklyn. You know, and he befriended me, took me under his wing, and we used to terrorize Broadway. Up and down Broadway, we would sneak into Broadway Dance Center to stepping out studios, and we were going there and sneak into the classes and take classes. and like... Just be there. Just be there.

Just straight thugging. Yeah, stealing classes. And when the class would break, there would be like a 15, 20 minute interlude of between the next class would come in. We put our music in and work on our routines and this to set in the third. And that went on for like about a year or so.

And now I got my first gig. He had three artists that he was working for at the same time. C.C. Penningston, Kim Sims, and the chick that's saying, you got to show me. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, what's her name? I'll think of it in a minute. Yeah, yeah.

He was dancing for all three of them at the same time. And C.C. Penningston and Kim Sims had a gig, different cities, same weekend. And he called me. It's like, yo, Mike, you ready? It's time to step up. And he said, you go into L.A. with Kim Sims. And the night that he called me about that, I remember I was staying with someone in Harlem. And I think they wanted a space bag. It was like, you know, it was starting to get like, like, okay, Mike, you got to find somewhere else. The crash.

And when he caught me, I ran back to that apartment and I was packing my stuff. Yeah. And I remember I was crying because I looked, I turned the TV on. That was the night that MJ, world premiered, because back in the day, they would block off like prime time. Oh, yeah. And he premiered, the world premiered the video or remember the time. And I remember, you know, looking at this video because at this time that's been a year, I've been in the dance world and interacting with other dances. And I saw, you know, Josie, Josie Harris, you know, Leslie Cigar and Stretch and all these dancers from New York up there with Michael Jackson.

And I was like, man, I'm coming. And I'm sitting there packing my stuff up. And that was my first gig as a dancer. And it kind of just grew, you know what I mean? And it grew and it grew. And I ended up, I taught for seven years. I got to work with, you know, like crystal waters, technotronics. Genuine.

I think Maya Harris was my last tour. And, you know, I got to see the world, man. This is like, you know, so I'm looking at my life. I'm like, okay, I got an eighth grade education I'm working with. GED, you know, no form of training is a dancer. And I'm traveling the world. And I'm, you know, it was a really humbly experience. That's incredible.

It's incredible. Wow. And you had that awareness of it even at the time, like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm here. I always feel like we never take the time when something amazing is happening to go like, right now, this shit is fucking great. So you look back like, oh, that was so good. Why didn't I see it at the time? So you're touring all over the world. What is it like to be a backup dancer? Like, what is that life like? Is it glamorous? Is it just exhausting? You know, I guess at my age now, it would be exhausting. But back then I was like a little bunny rabbit with all this energy.

So it was just like, it was a hustle. You know, I found my first hustle. You know, I had to call that, shake my ass for the cash. And I would, you know, get a gig, you know what I was saying? And I was very reckless with the money. I didn't manage, you know, I didn't appreciate the blessings from the money and the finances. And, you know, I just, but it was, it was real fun, man. Don't you also feel like when you grow up without a lot of money?

Like I know just whenever you, when you grow up in the money, when you have money, you spend it. Because you, I mean, and so you have no, I want to say it's a white thing. It's not, but I do think it's a class thing. Like, because I knew nothing about saving or planning or any of that shit. Someone had to show it to me when I was an adult. Yeah. I was thought, oh, we have some money. We better spend this shit.

Yeah. Yeah. And like, you know, my mother, she, you know, my mother could stress $20. like nobody's business but you know and she over told me save your money save your money but you know she i guess didn't have the energy to sit down and actually say okay we're going to go to the bank today and she she she gave me the information i just didn't process it properly i didn't internalize it yeah so you were having a good time though having a great time on the road man i had a lot of fun and and in the middle of this is when you got your scar or were you still dancing past that

The scar was here already. The scar came right, like, right before my first gig. Like, in that time when I was, like, you know, just, you know, run up and down Broadway. I was working up with Chad, my friend Chad, and he was just showing me routines and, you know, telling me what and what not to do. Yeah. That's when it happened. Okay. Yeah.

And so, you know, I pretty much, I got cut November 22nd, and by January, I had started, for the holidays, I took a, a job. I was the, you know when you go to use credit cards and the people at the store has to call to get a confirmation or whatever. I was on the other end of the line and I would give the codes that you know where this is right and there's a stolen car, yada, yada, yada, yada. And I still had the stitches in my face. And that job ended for the holidays and I went right back into rehearsals. Oh, great. I remember, you know, Barbara Tucker being very, very helpful, instrumental in helping me get back my feet back into the business. I just didn't want to, you know, deal.

I wasn't going to, I went, the doctor told me to go to a psychiatrist. There's no therapy. I went once and this ain't for me. I just, my, my therapy is getting back on this horse. Right, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So you, so your tour, you said you toured for about seven years. I toured for seven years. And, and then, who was your last tour again?

Maya Harris. Maya Harris. Yeah. So then what brought you off the road? I mean, what changed that part of your life? Well, what started happening was music videos at that time was a real big scene. Like, you could do the right video with the right artist and you was a star. You know what I mean?

So everybody was always looking for the right music video, you know what I mean? And I got into that world. And so when directors started noticing my scar, they wanted me to dance less and less. and they wanted me to portray roles in music videos. And I worked with some really great directors like Randy St. Nichols. I did a bunch of Taylor Dane videos that she would feature me in. I worked a lot with Marcus Nispole, who had a really good eye for like just that unique looking energy in the city. And, you know, Melody McDaniels, I think her name is.

And, you know, they started putting me, like featuring me in these music videos. So about 30, 40 videos down the line, you know, I'm working with Madonna, you know, in secret. I'm doing George Michael, a killer. And actually on the set of the George Michael video, Marcus is screaming at me, you know, these thick German accent. Emort, Michael, Emot! Give me pin! And I'm like, what the fuck does he moat me? You know what I mean?

So, you know, when I realized, you know, oh, I'm acting without words, you know, boom, that was my second light bulb. You know what I mean? And I was like, so I switched up the resume and I took off model because, you know, let's face it, Tyson Beckford was on the scene at that time. No chance. I don't have a chance.

You know what I mean? So scratched off model. And I just, I put dancer, actor. And I put that out there, man. It started, you know, I just, the resume started sending it out and show my little credits, you know.

And before you knew it, I got a call from this production company It was Julian Temple's production company, and they were shooting a movie called Bullitt starring Tupac Shakur and Mickey Rourke. And apparently, Pock, God Bless the Dead, had seen a Polaroid to me and was like, yo, this dude looks thugged out enough to play my little brother. Go find him. Yeah.

They found me. I came in an audition. I got the role. And my first time ever acting anything, it was opposite Tupac, playing his little brother. Amazing. You know, so that, you know, sorry. And no acting. training you've been working working as a dancer yeah and oh this is so great uh and so then that was it

that that kicked it off at that moment that was like okay this is now what i'm going to do yeah yeah yeah well you know i was still dancing oh okay dancing was the day job right i mean so i'm still dancing still happy to dance so i did that you know okay that was cool you know okay i think this may you know i wasn't like i'm an actor now right um then a year later um i get another phone called from Matt Mahern's production company, and they were looking for a face to be the poster for a possible movie. I said, I'm what you're paying? He said, $2.50. I said, I'll be there. So we're shooting this poster, and, you know, I had to turn my neck, like, as far as I could to the left, and then cut my eye as far as I could to the right, and that was the shot.

So I'm sitting there trying to hold this position and tell this dude that, you know, I'm an actor. I just did this movie with Tupac and, you know, maybe there's a role for me in your movie. And he was like, please shut up and take the picture. Right. So boom, I did. So he goes to his first AD and his casting director and says, look, I got my poster. And when he showed it to them, they was like, is that Mike Williams? He's like, you know this schmuck?

And he was like, that's my baby. That's my dude. because Steve Appalela had AD countless amount of videos that happened on. And Andrea Kirstman had cast him. She cast him in the Madonna video. So he's like, yeah, we know this dude. So he was like, oh, maybe I should

Maybe he's legit. Yeah, then more legit than he sounded. So he caught me in, I auditioned for that, and that was my first lead role. My second ever being on set, I was lead and opposite Robert Nepper. And I remember the first day on the set, I was so excited about having get the gig, right? You know, and I remember certain things kicking in.

Like, I did something, some things, it was just instinct. I don't know, I looked back and I'm like, damn, what made me think like that? You know, we had, we had, went through a series where Matt would, like, take me out to lunch, and he was asking me questions about my childhood, what my bedroom looked like this, that, and the third. And then, like, that went on for like two weeks. And then we supposed to have another meeting, and he canceled, right? And then I didn't hear for him no more. I said, oh, this Cracker done came and rate me for all my information,

and now he's going to go get him a star, and they're going to have my bedroom. Right, all my shit, my posters. My posters that have told this bad thing about my childhood. So, you know, two weeks passed, and then, boom, I got a phone call, and Andrea hit me, she said, yo, Matt want to see you. He wants you to read for the lead role of rumor. So I knew what the script was and everything, and this character rumor was a part of a gang, And these gang colors were these white leather jackets.

They dressed in all black and wore white leather jackets. So this day, this audition was in the hottest day of July. And I went to that audition dressed in all black and I found me a white leather jacket. People thought I was crazy on the street. And I went to the audition like that. And something just said to go in character. Yeah. And it worked.

I booked it and that was the second thing I shot. So on the day, first the other set, right? I had a meltdown. I had a panic attack. And it was just like, I started freaking out. And I was, I can't do this. I can't do this, right? And there was this wardrobe lady.

And her name was Hollywood, right? She was mad, sweet, like a flower child. You know, she wore sun dresses with no panties and shit. You know, and she was always like, you know, peace love and hair grease. And she had this, like, really like, sun, light energy, right? So she saw me freaking out. She was like five foot five. She saw me freaking out, man.

She grabbed me. She collared me. And she smacked the shit out of me. And she said, don't go there, Michael. Fear blocks the flow. You had to see me a T-shirt. Yo. Oh, my God.

Oh, shit. So, yeah, I mean, but that resonated. And I took that. I took a deep breath. I said, I'm here. Yeah. And when we shot the movie. Oh, that's incredible.

And so, and now you're the lead in film. So everything changes in this moment. because you know how when you're on set playing a small role and then playing you just there's like a way that life moves on a on a film set it takes a while to understand but then when you do understand it I do feel like it changes you you know what I mean just making art no not in a bad way I'm in a good way in a no I don't mean a bad a good way I just didn't I didn't know what was happening oh okay I literally treated that like a music video set because you know I had been on a lot of music videos and and I was, I caught myself the spook that sat by the door.

I wasn't in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, the, to talk about which girls they was fucking. Mm-hmm. I was on the set in a corner listening and watching. I learned cut action, uh, back to one all those terminologies. I learned that by just watching the music video set. So, um, when I got to the, to the, to the music video set, I was already used to the long hours. Right. It felt normal.

But the whole thing that, you know, I could be a star, none of that registered. I just wasn't dead. I didn't compute that. Oh, well, that's great. I mean, because I also think that's people who focus on being a star, you know, one out of every million of those people actually accomplishes that. The rest of them wash out because they focused on the shit around the work and not the work itself, right? And it's only the work that sustains.

It's all about the work. It's all about the work. Everything else is bullshit. And it falls away. I mean, it will fall away. It always does. It doesn't matter who you are. That shit will fall off. Okay, so I want to think about the time between this film and The Wire, because obviously

that is the thing that people know you best from. The most iconic, I'm not going to say the most iconic role in your career because you've done a lot of really amazing things, but one of the most iconic roles in television fucking ever is Omar, period. So, I mean, it just, it doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter who you talk to. Everybody knows. You people who have even seen the show, no, Omar. What transpired between this moment of doing this film and how much time, like, I'm trying to think about what you were doing as an actor in between then and when you started doing the wire.

When I look back at the journey, it was real impactful and it moved very quickly, although at the time I didn't feel like that. All right, so after having done mugshot, you know, okay, all the lights and the cameras went off, and then when that was done, I went back to dancing. And still enjoying my career. And I was, this is now coming toward the end. And mind you, in between it, but little like background roles on lawn on all the featured extras and, you know, going to cover and all that kind of stuff. And I was starting to mix and mingle with the actors now. You know, not so much with the dance. You hear these other actors what they say and what they're talking about,

and so I realized it was a necessity to get into the union, which happened on Mugshot and blah, blah, blah, blah. So now, I was just coming toward the end of my dance career. It was 97, 98, some way up in there. I was on tour with Maya. We were in L.A. And something just said, let me call into my manager and just see what's on the bulletin board.

Anything new coming up just standing there, because I had an actress manager by this time now. So I called up for Friday evening, and she was like, where are you? I said, McCalley, about to go on stage. She said, you better have your ass back in New York Monday morning. I'm like, why? Martin Scorsese wants to meet you. Maya?

Oh, shit, I got a family emergency. Said, my mom ain't feeling good because if I miss this meat, she's going to kill me. Right? Just a ghost. I was out, man. Oh, wow. I came to New York. I met with Marty for the first time for the role in a film called Bringing Out the Dead with Nick Cage, right?

And he's sitting in the room, him and Ellen, his casting director, and there were three parts that I read for, three different emotions. I did all three of them, right? And at the end, he looks at me, he goes, damn, you're damn good. Hell of an actor. He looked at Ellen and said, give him the party, any part he wants, give it to him. And I was like, I'm hanging my dancing shoes up. I ain't dancing no more That was the moment that I said

I'm an actor It was that moment When Marty says I'm a damn good actor Give him the part Oh my God That's a rap That's incredible So that's it

You're like that Yeah now mind you You know I heard the other actors Talking and you know You know And you kept talking about this Pilot season It's pilot season

What the fuck is pilot season You know when you go to L.A. You do this whole thing And I was like I don't think that's me I'm a cocky New Yorker. You know what I'm saying? Frank Sinatra all day.

If I could make it here, you know what I mean? So I was like... And also pilot season, for people out there who are listening who don't know, is when they make all the pilots for the upcoming TV shows and then they look and decide what they're going to put on the air. But it feels... And you probably heard this from the actress that you were listening to, like such a panicky, like a chase.

Like everyone's just chasing work. You know, there's this frenzy. You're going from place to place. I mean, you feel very much, I mean, you feel like a hooker almost. You're just like, please give me a job. And you're running hither and thither and yon. Yeah. That's exactly what it sounded like to me.

And it just didn't speak to my energy. And I said, you know what? When I go to L.A., they're going to send for me. They're going to pay for my ticket. And they're going to be a job down there waiting for me. Until then, I'm going to fluff up my resume right here in NYC. And that started to happen. And you had some stability here because you've been working for a long time, you know, as a dancer.

So you had enough money. to live. Well, you know, yeah, I was making it. You were doing all right. Yeah, I was doing all right. I was paying my little project apartment rent. You play your rent. Yeah.

I mean, there's a freedom for an artist in not needing money. Do you know what I mean? Because unless you take the work you want and not the work you have to take, where it removes some of that low level panic that we all can get, you know, which is like, okay, I'm fine. I'm going to try to focus on the work again and not on the money. No, yeah. Yeah.

The money never influenced. I want to make money. I've always been, you know, intrigued by the idea of making money as something I love to do, but that's not my, that's not my focus. You know, my focus is the work. I just love the process. Right. So, you know, I said I made my decision.

I'm not going to do the L.A. thing, and I'm going to stay in New York. And things started to happen, you know, did a lot of extra and background stuff. But then, like, there were three things that really hit. One was the, bringing up the dead project. I had landed a guest starring role on Sopranos, and I landed a guest starring role on Law and Order. So when I got those three things back to back, I packed the bags, I sat by the door. I said, LA is going to be calling for me in a minute now. So, yeah, they're going to come get me.

Make sure the phones are working. Yeah, I was. I was dead serious. I was like, you know, my ass was on my shoulders. Like, I'm getting ready to go to Cali. Right. And 99, the phones went dead. Wow.

No calls. I wasn't getting gigs in New York. L.A. wasn't, it was a joke. Right. And I just was like, okay, so the money dried up. up and you know at that point my mom's she had a daycare in the projects right and you know I was kind of always started started leaning on her you know like your mom spot me this that the third so um on the 2000 the millennium the new years of that that 2000 you know we was um you know I was

sitting down with toes and she goes you know what son you might as though come and work in a daycare I mean I'm paying your rent anyway you might as well earn it and I was like you know what that offer. And I did that. I did that for all of 2000 and like three thirds up until the third quarter of 2001. I worked at the daycare. I did not go on any auditions. I pretty much took myself off the grid. And I said, you know what? Screw the industry. And that desperate energy that you spoke about earlier, that's where I had gotten. Because up until that point that year of 99, I would go on to these auditions like the world depended on. you know and had like my life and I have to get this this thug number three role it's it's it's it's it's it's just I have to get this you know you know and it was like it was just I was sending the wrong message out so you know I believe sometimes you got to fall back and that's what I did the day kid gave me an opportunity to do that and then um you know some things happened there was no 9-11 you know I didn't I didn't digest that too properly at all that thing kind of you know I went through a depression behind that

You know, and so, you know, 2001. Where were you? I was in Brooklyn. I watched them buildings drop from the roof of my projects. And, like, you know, when the wind would shift, you could smell a burning flesh. And, like, I would just drive. I would just drive at night. And I would get as close as I could to Ground Zero, my little blazer truck.

And I would, I would smell the burning flesh, and I would just blast Tupac. I would just blast Tupac. I was smoking mad weed. And I just used to cry on my truck. and I couldn't understand that, you know, then, you know, I guess everything started like just, I just felt like it was crumbling around me. I was in the projects, you know, I knew I wanted more for myself. I just didn't know how to go about it.

And just like life just started seeming really dark. And I just kind of slipped into a depression, you know, like got real dark with it. So, um, we're in like November, somewhere of 2001. I mean, my career, me and some of my peoples, and we just getting high. And I had to keep the TV on mute. I would blast the music. So we're sitting there, you know, just that and the third bullshit, yada, yada, yada. And boom, I think the episode of Sopranos comes on that I was in.

So I'm looking and I'm like, I just had this out-of-body experience. Like, what the hell am I doing on the TV? And I got these clowns around me. You know, I'm just killing myself, right? And so I said to my mom and say, yo, mom, I said, I got a feeling that I need to give this entertainment shit one more try. I said, I'm going to give it one more shot. If it don't work this time, you got me. We're going to do this family business thing, and I'm changing Pampas.

It's done. So, you know, she said, what you're going to do? I said, I need to reinvent my package. So she spotted me like 10 stacks. You feel what I? So, here, just go ahead and do you. And I bought a computer. I learned how to, my man, Al Thompson,

showed me how to make my own resumes and, you know, and how to Xerox my pictures and shit. They look like quality. I spent all this money. and I redid my real. You know, because back then, like, people who's always asked me before, they'd always like, you know, Michael, how do you play these, you know, these hard roles, you know, my little extra stuff or whatever, and you were so nice.

And I was like, you know, young motherfuckers really knew where I grew up in, you would understand that. And so I decided to make this real. And looking back, it was over the top, real gaudy. But I took a camera, I took a camera crew into my projects, and I filmed the most darkest stuff in my hood. And I made that the opening to my reel and it went into my credits and all that kind of stuff. And I put it out.

I bought Tiffany's pins and I put them in Tiffany's boxes. And I had a hit list of 10 people, Kidar Massenberg, Jimmy Hinchman, Queen Latifah, Jackie Brown Carmen. I can't remember the rest of the names, but it was 10 names on this list. And I sent out 10 sterling silver Tiffany's pins. Wow. With my box in my picture, you know. And I said, okay, I sent them off for Christmas presents, right? Going into 2002, and I said, okay, I'm a little two weeks past.

I did that whole pack my bag and sit by the door shit again. The phone would be ringing any minute now. And that phone didn't ring, man. And by February, I was, like, in fetal position in my bed. My thumb in my mouth, like, just stop the world. I want to get off. And, Amar's looking at me like, all right, you really starting a trip. And where the fuck is my money?

And by the way. Yeah, by the way. So I just like, man. And then one day I got this breakdown on the fax machine. She said, come downstairs. Some paperwork came in for you. And I went and I got it. And it was the breakdown.

It was the audition for Omar. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you went and you auditioned here in the... in New York. I went with Alexa Fogel's office and she put me on tape one time just for that character, sent it into Baltimore and when she caught me back, they were telling me what time to report. So that was just to let you know the mindset that I was in when I booked Omar. I was in a very dark place. You know, people, you know, people often say how much they admire the

character and the work. But I think people seldom start. stop to think about the state of mind, one must be in to portray a character like that. And, you know, I definitely understand, you know, like with Heath Ledger, what he must have, the depths he must have gone to play the Joker. You know, you manipulate your psyche when you, you know, and so that's where I was at when I, when I booked on one. feel like you had a lot to tap into in your own life already. You didn't have to imagine it.

Oh, hell, no. Yeah, yeah. It was all there. But what's amazing to me about that character is that obviously a lot of dark shit was going on. And Omar was really somebody who had, you know, my opinion, I'll tell you about the character. Let me tell you about yourself. Yeah, exactly. that he had a he was like um he was a man with he was a man with no country he and he had

nothing and it made him incredibly powerful do you know what i mean he he had only himself and you know he obviously always had somebody around him but really he was he was an unmoored person and it made him stronger than almost everybody else in that world because he needed nothing and he owned nothing and he he just lived by his own rules and there was a there was a darkness to that, but there was a lightness to it too. I mean, he's, he's the, he was the Robin. You know this, we've heard that. He was the Robin Hood of that show. He was a hero. He was really a hero. He was, he was, he was Shane or he was, you know, he was Clinton High Plains Drifter. Do you know what I mean? He was that. He was a hero. He was a anti-hero. So, he was, he was, you know, he was,

Omar saved me a lot of ways He was You know I call I often refer to him As my Superman suit You know

Or my alter ego He was everything That I couldn't be Growing up Or that I felt Oppressed by He looked He like

He just He just like Was in it In it He was in all my Demon's face Like saying Fuck you

You know what I mean And And um You know When I became Omar man It was Even though it was

It was a darkness To it There was I felt strong. Yeah. It was a weird feeling. I'm more on that character like everybody else.

I don't know if I ever want to feel that close to a character again. But, you know, but, you know, people often, even though as gangster as he was and, or as gangster as, and as real as he appeared, what I had to learn to do to make him believable. Because believe it or not, the hard stuff. was the gangster stuff. That was how I had to work on how to play that. His anger and his energy that was in me already,

but I didn't know how to execute that and to look menacing. So, you know, I was like, well, Mike, you know, you can't play him as an alpha male. That's because that's not you. You don't know, you don't know how to, I don't really know how to plug into that energy. You know, coming from,

at that point, I want to make it believable to something that I could believe where my, that's where my, my, my, my, my span was. So I said, what can I do? I said, I got it. Instead of playing him, I'm trying to play him alpha, play him the other direction. And I said, make Omar sensitive and vulnerable. And from the vulnerability is what makes him volatile.

And that, the light bulb went off again. I was like, that's it. You know what I mean? Don't hurt, don't hurt Omar's feelings because Omar is going to hurt you. Yes, Omar, halt a grudge. on the real you know and he's sensitive

and he's fragile and those are the things that I related to which is why his compassion and his heart and his light was able to be seen

because I was able to connect with that in these situations yeah I mean that was a thing for every person that admired Omar or feared Omar

I think two or three people just loved Omar I mean just loved him you know and I'm curious how much because obviously your way

in informed so much of who the character became. But now I feel like I see parallels between your life and things that happen to the character later in the show. And I've watched the whole series, but in all honesty, it's been a couple of years now. Like, I'm trying to think of what season. You had this girl that you ran with

who now reminds me the fact that you had this best girlfriend that was lesbian when you were growing up. Was that something that came out of your life? Was that something? Or is that just a part of the show? That was a part of the show. Like, that show was like there was some, there was some it was very cathartic

you know I don't even think the writers realized how parallel it was to my real life as far as like the emotion not so much every instinct but the emotion that

that evolved evolved from those situations yeah were very close to mine yeah you know and even while it was shooting you know I just you know

I called the why in my college years because I did so much growing up so much learning And, like, you know, after season one, what happened to me, like, you know, I got, you know, I was, you know, like I said, oh, one was my Superman suit. So I got outside myself. I didn't have to deal with the fact that, like, had personal issues, you know, and I went down there, and then I fell in love with the city. That was my first time ever being or really having access to a chocolate city and really absorbing the energy, man. And I love Baltimore.

Baltimore is. Baltimore is a special city. It really is. That's a special city. It's I, when I came down and I shouted, I think it was season five with Ernest, and you watch a show like The Wire

and it seeps into you, but you imagine to yourself that some of these situations have been created, right? That these are sets, that every bit of the wire was just real. Real. Just real. Real, yeah.

How different was that from the experience you had in the project? growing up here because there are parts of Baltimore that are like a third world country. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It just, it felt, it felt very, very familiar. Yeah.

You know, I, for the longest, I would have, I would have this saying, I would just, you know, for BK to B more. Yeah. You know, that was my thing. And, um, I fit, it fit like a, like a, like a, like a, just a comfortable pairs of, uh, sneakers, you know what I mean? I just, I went to Baltimore and everything made sense. I got it. got the vibration, I got the culture.

I just, I couldn't run that fast. So in season two, I decided to move down there. I was going to ask you, did you eventually live there? Oh, yeah, season two, I was on it. Like, season one, I was a reoccurring character, so they had to, you know, they would train me in and out when I was done. So, uh, season two, when they made me a regular, and I was, you know, I had to move down there or I had to just be there for the time of the show.

I, um, I packed up my project apartment, but luckily I did not get. give it up. I paid my rent for the year. And I went back down there now, in a personal level, what happened is, this is the first time I got introduced to the mind of David Simon and how he really thinks

and works. And when he bought on all the white characters and told us the dark storyline, I couldn't understand that. And in my mind, I was, you know, my egotistical, selfish mind, I was like, there he'd go again. These crackers, soon as

Black man, these biggest make it hot. They're going to take it and give it to the whitey. And I was, I got real bitter and I got mad

and then, and you know, I had a lot of free time on my hands. And I'm one of those people, you know, idol mine, a workshop.

Yeah. And I started partying. Plus now you got some money I got a little money. I got a little money. I had a fly-ass apartment down there. You know, my second season in Baltimore

moving down there was probably my first experience of a better way of life than what I've been used to on my own. You know, I had this upstairs. I had a duplex apartment, exposed brick, two five places, two bathroom, two bedroom, backyard. I was paying like $1,100 a month. You know what I mean? And so I went down there and then I started to realize what was going on.

Plus I got the raids, but then like it was just, I didn't, you know, just it was, you know, season. If you ever watched the Y, you know what season two was about. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was almost all way down, very much down at the docks. That was the whole story. Yeah, that was the season. And I didn't understand that. And so I just got, you know, I got, I got angry and I got bitter again. And so I said,

well, fuck it. I'm just going to hang out in Baltimore and party. And that caught up to me, I caught up to me financially, and I caught up to me in a personal level because I picked up that narcotic again. And I started running around in Baltimore, you know what I mean, doing a lot of reckless things and being careless with my life, you know, and thank God.

It's the grace of God, man, you can't tell me that it's not an angel looking over me. You know, there have been times that I did things down there that I probably would take to the grave. But when I tell you, like, strangers have walked me back to my apartment and made sure I got home safe. Like, those streets, man, Baltimore streets, ain't nothing like it. They took care of me when I couldn't take care of myself. So that was season two Then when the end of season two came I was trying to do the whole thing of

Because I kept my Brooklyn apartment Same because I figured Well you know when I got to go with my auditions I don't have to drive right back I can come back the next day or whatever So I couldn't afford that So I was forced to give up my apartment In Baltimore

And I put all my shit in storage And by the end of season two I was back in the projects On a mattress On the floor Michael Wow. Wow. And what are you thinking at this point?

You don't know if there's going to be season three? Every season for the wire was like we bit our nails. We fought and begged for every season on the wire. Nothing was ever greenlit with no problem. So that was definitely hovering over that the wire might not come back. We don't know. We never knew. And so that's why I was at the end of season two. And you were, you said you were, you were doing drugs again?

I was getting high like a motherfucker. Right. And, and, and, and that continued through when you went home. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And then, I'm, to the point where, you know, my mom's, you know, my kid's mother, you know, it's crazy. Like, my mom's, she knows, she, she got, she got, she has her red flags and she knows something's going wrong with me.

Right, right. So once again, she come in, you know, kicking in the door, waving in the four-four. You know, like, all right, you're going back to rehab. And my uncles and everybody, you know. So, you know, we had this, they had this, like, what you call it, intervention. And I'm sitting there. And they're like, what do you have to say for yourself? And I had one thing to say, I'm going, going back to Cali, Cali.

And they were like, what? I said, I'm going to Cali. So, you know, my kids' moms, she was like, Mike, don't listen to none of them. She said, come. And at that time, my case was living in the Bronx, and I went to her, and she took care of me and got my weight back up, fed me, and just took care of me. And I stayed with them for about a month or so. And I had, by that time, I had put myself on tape, and I had booked this movie that Preston Whitmore wrote and directed called Doing Hard Time, opposite Boris Kojo. So I already had that on the slate, but then I had a callback for this HBO film called La Cawanna Blues.

Oh, yeah. So that was also happening in L.A. So I had to, so I went to Cali, and I remember the Monday I left, that was the Monday after Janet had the wardrobe malfunction in the Super Bowl. I got a lot of references with Janet. I love it, though. Yeah, Janet, she's been there all along, right? long. Have you guys met? Never.

Oh, that has to happen. I keep talking about it. It's going to be one day. It's going to happen. So, yeah, so that Monday I left to go to Cali. I had no money. I had 20 bucks in my pocket

and a one-way ticket to Cali and I took it. So I got to LAX. I had my bags. I went to a Hertz car rental and I sat my shit down and I set up shop and that was my office for like seven hours. In the car?

At the car. car rental. I couldn't rent a car just at the office at the airport. So I'm sitting there and I'm making phone calls, you know, anybody that could come get me or let me come crash with them, like literally. Everybody you know. Everybody and everybody I knew. So I called my man, Jimmy Hinchman. And he's like, now you call me. And I'm like, yeah, Jimmy, man, I'm in a pickle, man. He said, all right, man, you got to give me some time. So seven hours later, he called me and said my brother's on his way. and his brother came, he put $500 in my hand, he put keys to a rental in my hand,

and he put another key to an Econal Lodge over there on Vermont and 3rd. For all you know, L.A., that was in the hood. In the hood. Yes, put a chair up against the door in the hood. They tore that spot down, that motel down. So I went and he said, you know, Mike, you good.

I said, I need one more thing. Take me to your nearest. jack in the box because I was starving and I said I need to get to this address which was the callback for Lackawanna Blues. So I went, I met George Wolf Shelby Stone and I was like on a Tuesday night and

I went and I checked it at the hotel at the motel and I was so happy. I remember having my little mayonnaise jar, my little cold cousin on the air conditioner trying to keep it chill and I did I stayed there for two days and I got the role as Jimmy Lee on Lackawana Blues and I went

from, I left the Econnell Lodge and I remember they gave my new address where they would put me up at. So I'm driving down, I'm headed west down third, right? Yeah. And I'm like, I'm looking at the address. I'm like, and you know, the, the, the residence started getting nicer.

Oh, yes. So I was like, it's got to be here because this looks, this is about, you know, like, yeah, this is as nice as it's going to get. Yeah, this is got to be here. I said, that is address. Mike, keep going. I said, I'm literally saying like,

I can't be further than this house or this apartment building because they're not going to put me anything nicer than this. Man, when I pulled up to the Palazzo Custreeto. Oh, but you're the Palazzo! Talk about racks and riches. Oh, my God.

The Palazzo is an apartment building in L.A. Across from the Grove, which is like the fanciest mall, right? Oh, people who watch TV watch like extra. That's where they shoot extra. Yeah, right. And the Palazzo is like living in a hotel. Yeah. Like, it's, and they kind of modeled it.

It's almost like a casino. Like, it's got pools. It's just, it's like, oh, so nice. Yeah. I was in heaven. It's ridiculous. Yeah. That was the second time I had the quality of life had upgraded.

First, it was the apartment in Baltimore. Right. Then it was the Palazzo. And, I mean, I stayed there and I shot the Lachwanda Blues. I shot doing hard time. Oh, you see, you got to do. You did them both. Yeah, yeah.

Right back to back. And I stayed there for like seven months, you know, hanging out with like Rohan, Marley. Call me 7 o'clock in the morning. Mike! Yeah, come now let me go train. I'm like, yeah, Rohan. I'll be there, man. I'm coming, man. So I did that for seven months, and then I came back to Baltimore.

You know, I was eating good. I was in the gym. And were you clean? Yeah, LA is like a safe haven for me. I know people think that's crazy. When I go to L.A., man, it's like, the city of Los Angeles, they take care of me. It's like I get, it's something I get into this energy.

L.A. always agreed with me for some reason. So I go back to Baltimore, and I'm like, I'm looking good. I'm a little cot diesel. You know what I mean? And I got back to Baltimore, man, but, you know, I just, I couldn't escape those demons, man. So, you know, I don't tell many people this, but, you know, fuck it. I'm going to tell y'all, but don't tell nobody.

If you pay attention to how I looked physically at the beginning of season three, and you look at me by the time Omar kills Stringerbell, you can see. that something went wrong. Yeah, yeah. You could see it, you know, and it's crazy how, you know, the, I don't know, man, call it, you know, divine intervention, how those, that, whatever I went through personally, it worked for the character, you know, that was just, you know, the parallels that you spoke about earlier, you can see the weight I lost and the, and the darkness that came back over me again,

and I left, I barely made it out of season three. production season, you know, unscathed. I barely, I mean, by the skin of my ass, I barely made it through season three because I was getting high so much. How was that for you as an actor, not in terms of the creative part of the work, because obviously you're saying there was something there.

There's two parts of this question. The first question is, how is it, because I know, I mean, I know what that life is like. You're up at four in the morning, five in the morning. Someone has to come pick you up, take you to work the hours or 16 hours a day.

You have a lot of time to yourself, which is, you have a lot of time where you sit in your trailer. That's a big part of the problem. But there is that thing. I always think about where, because I, you know, I'll be on set and I'll go out on the weekend and I'll drink on the weekend. And I always think I couldn't do this during the week because I couldn't get up. I couldn't get it. I couldn't remember my lines. Oh, now when it came time to film, actually, the set was my safe haven.

As long as I was on set, I was good. You know, I mean, I would smoke my weed, but I would never do coke or I would never drink alcohol. on the set. I would never do that but when a weed was like breathing air for me so you know I mean I was smoke but I would like the set I was safe it was when I rapped right you know I didn't know how to

process you know all that you know because like the you know I didn't know how to turn Omar off when I got off the job and you know I'm on a summer nights I'm on them Baltimore streets I just could I just I ate that shit up you know what I'm saying and just I just

I just went back into it's pretty much I didn't know My lines got blurred Between Mike and Omar I just I didn't know You know what I mean That's kind of went with it Did at this point now

Season 3 people know the show Was there a part of the world Of Baltimore that drew you in Like people would see you And they'd want to be around you I mean I think that happens So a lot of actors period They see you

They want to be around you And then a part of that is they want to party with you They'll do anything you want They'll get you drugs if you want them You know Is that happening? Baltimore Or, you know, they really don't give a fuck.

You know, it's like they're not star fuckers and they don't, you know, I mean, of course you got a little bit of that energy anywhere, but the average tone of the average Baltimore in is, man, if you cool, you're cool. If you're a dickhead, you're a dickhead. Right. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, people, the friends, I still got the people that I connected with down there, we still keep in contact, man, you know, Dominic, you know, and Jarrell, those, and Earl.

I mean, I met all types of athletes from Antonio Freeman. I remember I used to go see Mello before he got his big deal. He was down there, you know, Sam Cassell. These are like, these are people down there that I got to hang out with. And as far as the streets, you know, it was just like, it was just love, man. You know, you know, if they see you in the club, hey, what's up, you know. But nobody's, it wasn't nobody, Baltimore beat to sweat you. Right.

They ain't beat. They're going to party where they, you know. the nobody's in like they got this one club and the wire cats we kind of made certain clubs our home. The first one was hammer jacks and they closed hammer jacks and then the second

club we made our home was club one we read that's actually the club where I met Felicia Pearson as you know as Snoop we met it one and then the third club where I still when I go to Baltimore I still go there I do not go to B-more and do not stop

at Eden's Lounge Like that's my home when I'm in Baltimore because the vibe is just right. Just a little bit of, just the right amount of hood. You know, and the right amount of like, I don't got to worry if I'm going to get stabbed in this motherfucker. You know, just got the right energy. The music is banging and they party in there, man. I mean, they be getting it. And I could, you know, whether we're there or not, don't care who's in that room.

That party goes on no matter what. So that's my favorite spot. And that's the average energy of Baltimore. They're going to eat. They're going to party. They're going to drink. They're going to fuck whether you're there or not. Yeah, they don't need you to turn on the light.

They don't need you. They ain't beat. They're not beat. You know what I mean? Okay, so circling back and then we're going to to the part where you were saying that you couldn't turn Omar off,

but obviously there was a lot of what you were going through that was what Omar was going through. You leave the show in a season three and then, again, you don't know if it's going to be a season four. So you go back to New York or you stay involved? Oh, no. After, I got, you know, by the way, when I left my project apartment when I went to L.A., I got, that was, I also got evicted. I got kicked out of the projects. Oh, they kicked you out of the projects, Michael. I got kicked out of the projects, girl, what I did? I couldn't pay that rent.

My stamps, I could, I could, I mean. They thought you out the projects. I was, I was, I couldn't get no more, you know, I was working, so I couldn't get on the system. Right, right, right. stamps. Shit is just hard right now. You know what I mean? So, I mean, so, but after that point, I got real fortunate that I started working on the hiatus.

Like, every hiatus, I just, I stayed consistently working. That's great. You know, you name it from the road to a miracle at St. Anna. And then did you do Gone Baby Gone? Were you stoned? Gone baby gone. Yeah. Yeah.

All of those were on hiatus. I stayed working where it was. TV or film. I was very fortunate. So after season three, you know, I just kind of just went on this bumpy road where I was all over the place. I was working. I was grateful to be working. But like, you know, everywhere I went, I just would just find the streets and I would just try to lock in. And that was, that's just what I did on the road. I just, you know, sex drugs and rock and roll. Yeah. At any point, at this, did it affect your work? I mean, was there over that clash between production in your life where they were like never never and you know like I said it's you know I know

it had to been somebody watching over me and there's no I've never been arrested I've um I've never had anything foul happened to me on the streets because I was running with some shady characters I've never um I've never missed work you know I've never had it affect my work is I've been very very very blessed no no in today's entertainment news you know Some TMZ, grainy footage. No, so this is also the reason why I talk about it, you know, because, you know, I was very blessed to have survived what I went through and to come out and scaved. So I feel that I have an obligation just to tell what I've been through so that, you know, maybe somebody is listening and they could be like, you know, they're not alone. Oh, yeah.

People need to know. Because I feel like sometimes people get into a place where they can't see past where they are and that they can hear somebody. on the other side of it. Been there. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Especially someone who went through this success,

was going through it ostensibly at a really successful time in your life. It's not like, well, when I was young and then I got to be. It's like, no. I was a grown man. And I was working as an actor. And I just couldn't, there was just something inside of me, man. I just couldn't. I just had some personal growth, you know.

I had to get rid of myself. And it didn't happen for a while, you know. After the wire, you know, it was just, I would go in these that we call, you know, in recovery, we call them benches. You know, I go in these really nasty, dangerous benches. And, you know, I'm in South Africa, out there filming a TV show. And I lived in Cape Town for seven months. And, you know.

Talk about the projects. Yeah, I mean, that was the third time my quality of life went to another level. the life I lived in Cape Town, man, is got to be one of the best qualities of life, you know, that I've had thus far as, you know, as far as like, you know, if only I, you know, I don't have any regrets because there's no sense in having them. But I do sometimes wonder what my experience there would have been had I been sober and who I could have, you know, connected with more, meaning like the townships and just, you know, the experience of being African, you know. I did it, but it was, you know, from drug-induced fucking eyes, you know what I mean? So when I came back from Cape Town, that did it, you know. At this point, you know, I was staying with, you know, I was standing in the hood in Newark, New Jersey.

That was like my, that was like the only place I can call a base that was the closest to New York. Yeah. And, you know, these dudes took care of me, man. They was, you know, some gangsters, you know what I mean? but their family, and they made me feel like family. Now because I was all off from the wire. Right. Although they caught me, oh, they never, nobody ever caught me, Mike.

You know, but it wasn't because of that. It was because they just genuinely got to see me and, you know, they took me as a brother. Yeah. So I just knew I couldn't go back to that, you know. I just, I needed to set up shop. My kids' mom was like, okay, she was losing ground with my two sons. So, you know, I was in Cape Town. And, you know, would you believe I was out there making all this day?

their money and had the nerve to ask my agent to let me out my contract to ask NBC to let me out my contract. You know, I was down there, you know, with Neff Campbell, Jesse Martin, James Pervoy, having a time of my life. It's called the philanthropist. Oh, okay. Oh, wow. Having the time of my life is summertime in Cape Town. How better does it get? It's incredible. And there was, I, you know, going back to early when I said that, you know, money was never my motivation in this business. And so although it's making a lot of money, I wasn't being challenged creatively. And it was leaving me a lot of dead time to run around.

And I was just doing the same recklessness. And I was like, you know what, Mike, you know, as nice as this is, and how much fun you having or you thought you was having, you could be back in New York and auditioning for better things and plugging away at more career-satisfying projects. So I asked my agents to have asked them to let me out my contract. And I prayed on it. I remember asking God, say, God, am I being like cocky?

You know, you know what I mean, niggies would wish they was in my position right now Well, shut up and get the check I said, but this ain't, I don't feel that that's not what you put in me I was like, I tell you what, I said, God, I said, give me a sign If it's meant for me to stay here, show me a sign and I stay put But if it's meant for me to take my black ass home like I'm feeling Send me that sign Within less than a week, I get a call for my agent

They want me to go on tape for the role of chalky white for Borg Right So I'm like, nah, no way I was like, dude, you serious? So, you know, I really thought it was too good to be true. And I didn't even bother with it. I was like, yeah, right. Barnes-Corsese is going to pick me from a tape all away from Africa

with all the dynamic actors back in New York. Right, right. So I didn't do it. And I hate putting myself on tape. I was like, no, it's going to look like shit. They saw everybody else in the room. There's just no way. Right, yeah.

I mean, neither to say that's how I booked, you know, all the wire. You know, that was a once in a lifetime, you know. So I didn't do it, and she called me. She said, you know, Mike, you know, if you don't go on tape this week before this week is over, you're going to lose the window of opportunity to be considered. I said, all right, so I called Nass and NAB. You come read the lines against me, and she did, and I sent it in. You send it.com.

On behold, they booked me off that tape. That's amazing. And I was like, yeah, so then we're faced with another dilemma because, you know, once the studio makes you the offer, you have to officially accept the offer. And I couldn't do that. that because NBC hadn't let me out my contract yet. So there was another period of like about another week that, you know, H.B. was like, okay, well, does he want the gig or not?

Right, right. And Saturday afternoon, my agent called me and she's like, okay, we have a situation. I'm like, what? She goes, you got HBO legal calling me at my house on a Saturday afternoon. Call it. I said, you know what? Take the fucking gig. She goes, but I said, take the gig.

We'll deal with that bullshit. We crossed that bridge and we get there. And we took it. And NBC dropped me out of my contract that Monday. HBO had me in the trades Tuesday. That's great. Do you know what happened? I don't know.

Right? Oh, yes. Because if they had heard about it, they would have blown you up just to blow you up. Exactly. Because this is in a, I'm not beating NBC specifically, but it, I mean, it's just a pissing contest all the time. It's a business.

Yeah, exactly. It doesn't look bad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so quickly, I want to talk a little about those two roles, and then we're going to, well, I think we'll do self-inflicted wounds,

but Omar was such an iconic character, and now Chalky White is such a different kind of iconic character. And also, it's exciting to be doing period. We don't see a lot of black people in period pieces. I always think that, like, in television and film, land, all the black people showed up in the 60s. How do we just magically get here in a time machine? I mean, and a very different kind of gangster.

You know what I mean? A very different kind of character. One thing I love, so how, you talk about Omar was so close to you. How do you feel about Chalky is it? I mean, is that much more of a character to you? You know, yeah, Chalky is more of a character to me, but he's also close to my heart for different reasons. than Omar.

I always heard one time Denzel Washington in an interview, someone asked him some question and he responded with, he gets into character by praying to his ancestors and that was kind of stuck in the back of my mind and so

when I got the opportunity to portray Chalky, you know, unlike Omar where I could look at my childhood and my practice in VIA and pull from that and my personal experiences, I I don't know what Chalky went through. And so I decided to do what Denzell said.

And, you know, I channel about five dead men's energy to create Chalky. My father, Booker T, my Uncle Parr, my Uncle Tommy, my godfather, Jr. And my Uncle Jahue. those five men are all deceased and I just I pick walks he you know when he's with his family he's like uncle uncle J Hugh when he's being sarcastic and kind of like you know matter of factly he's like my uncle Tommy when he's getting ready to kill you he's like my uncle par you know his dress his love of fashion is a mixture of my father you know and my godfather but that that cockiness and that snarled the way

Chalky's lips snar down that straight up my godfather, Jr. And all five of those men are deceased, but I pull different things from them

and I create Chalky. And I talk to them. You know, when I'm on set, you know, I asked them, you know, what would you do in the situation?

And, you know, as it might, you know, sounds corny or hocus, pokes, whatever, you know, and maybe it even is,

but in my mind, I feel like the shit works. Right. I think that there's a certain magic to acting. There are guys who are more technical and there are guys who are more emotional, guys, women, actors who are very technical, and then there are people who just kind of open themselves up and hopefully like the muse falls in for them.

But I think for every actor, even the technical ones, will say there was a moment or a scene or a day where it just flowed through me. You know what I mean? And anybody who's passionate about, acting or art will say to you at some point something was speaking through me you know what i mean that just so i don't think it sounds hoaxie's pocus at all i i i think it's interesting that you have it's um you have like a spiritual uh aspect that you've melded with a technical approach you know what i mean

like it's definitely these five people and i also talk to them it's like the both both sides of the coin. Yeah. Yeah. And you're back with Scorsese after. Back with Scorsese. You know, they told me a long time ago at doing the set

at a, at a, bringing out the dead. You know, once you work with Marty, you're in the family. And there's no getting in. And when you're in the family, you know, at first I didn't believe. I said, Marty, I guess you was right.

I guess I'm in the family. You know, the first day at set, I went and I spoke to him and he remembered me from all those years ago. And he was like, damn, Mike, it was pretty cold. I remember that?

That cold ass? Night, Coal. And I was like, Jesse, if you remembers that shit, you know? Is he onset quite a bit? No, he comes to the table reads. Okay.

You know, he shot the pilot, which is the most important episode of a show because it sets the tone. But he's very hands-on, like he watches all the finished product every episode when the director's turning in. He watches those, and he shows up periodically to our table reads

whenever he's in town. But we still hope. open for the day he'll come back and direct another one. I'm sure he will. I mean, it's his baby, of course. Yeah. And now you're back in Brooklyn and you're shooting. And where did you guys shoot?

We shoot at the Brooklyn Navy, y'all. It's incredible. Talk about full circle. It's incredible. Right? And what you do, I was going to say, do you ever say to yourself? But of course you do, because that was the first thing we talked about when we walked in the room was that dream that you had when you were, you know, when you were a kid, essentially.

Yep. And now it's happening. That's just great. I was going to say, do you pinch yourself? Do you, I mean, but... I do pinch myself, you know, but I look at, as opposed to just being there at the job, I look at how I left Brooklyn, broken, tail between my legs. I scurried out of here trying to save my life.

And I came back, focused, you know, sober, you know, I'm a father, I'm a type of father that I feel I should be to my kids. You know, I'm teaching my son. My son's how to be men. And, you know, you know, say I'm got some pretty cool digs over there in Brooklyn. You know, and me and my son, we look at each other. And I keep telling him, said, did you ever think this? And look at our life.

And, you know, I constantly let them know that, you know, we're very blessed. Don't take none of this for granted because this could be gone tomorrow. And don't think that you're going to ride my car. co-tails. This is my shit. Like, I will help you. I will bust my gun for you, but you're going to get out there and work. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And, you know, we just, I just, I thank God, man. I'm, you know, I'm no

religious fanatic, but I do believe in spirituality. I do believe in God. And I believe that there are angels. We all have angels. And, you know, if left to my own devices, I'd have been, I'd have been dead several times over. There's, you know, so when I look at myself and I pinch myself, I'm just grateful to be alive. I'm grateful that I'm finally in my right mind, that I'm finally comfortable in my own skin, you know, my relationship with my family, you know, me and my mother, you know,

we, we had a very turbulent relationship, you know what I'm saying? I fought her a lot, you know, so, you know, she finally looks at me with respect and calls me She calls me a man. Now you're still my baby even though you think you're a man. You know what I'm saying? And my son, you know, the other day my son caught me, my youngest son, Kareem. He's like, yo, dad. I'm like, what?

He goes, yo, I'm proud of you. I'm like, yo, I'm proud of you too, Correed. He's like, no, man, I was in the best buy. And the people behind the counter was all talking about you. And I'm like, that's my dad. And he's like, you know, because that's when they released, they made the press release about me. portraying old dirty bastard and a dirty white boy. So he's like,

Dad, I'm so proud of you, man. It's just like, you know, I didn't want to hear me sniffling on the side of the phone. I was like, yeah, I got to go, so I'm proud of you too. I got some of my eyes. Yeah, I mean. So for those reasons, I pinched myself. And then, you know, the fact that I got a pretty good job and I'm working at the Brooklyn Navy Yard is,

yeah, it's kind of like cherry on the cave. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things that you have a dream and you think, if things even turn out a little bit like this, that would be great. But, and what you've been through to get to this point, it's almost a miracle, isn't it? But it comes from something very specific in you, which is that you fought, you kept fighting, right? Whatever happened to you, the people around you loved you, they fought for you, but you fought for yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there was always something in me that said, don't give up. You know, in my darkest point, like, I always knew that, okay, Mike, at one point you do know that you're going to have to get your shit together.

You know, that was kind of like always somewhere buried in the back of my head, and now I was just like to the front, you know. Do you now at this point in your life, and I'm sure this is true with anybody who's gone through addiction, do you worry about falling back into that life or do you feel like you finally have just passed. a point where that's just all in the past. I just stay in the moment. I start thinking about that, you know, because I don't like nothing that I don't like to be told what I can't do. Yeah.

So if I start going there, you know, that starts to open up portals that I don't need to be going in. So I just stay in the moment and it's like for right now, I'm not drinking, I ain't drugging. Just right now, while we're chilling, I ain't drinking and drugging. I'll deal with when I get out, when I leave here and I go outside, I'll deal with

that moment when I get there. You know what I mean? So it's just stay in the moment. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, well, let's do self-inflicted wounds. I'm going to say one last thing, which is that it's something I do. I wanted to say slash ask about Omar that I'm curious about if it's, you know, you grew up. I think the black community specifically still is not dealing, still is not dealing properly

with gay people. I think it's like one of the last communities where it's still okay they, you know, to use, to call people a faggot. we just, I think especially for black men, I think it's why so many more black men are in the closet, but you grew up with a lesbian best friend, so your attitude obviously wants to have been different when you were coming up, because this was the person who was closest to you. And Omar, I think, in so much as he's this kind of gangster, this outlaw icon, he's also a gay icon. He was one of the first characters I remember seeing on TV who wasn't a stereotypical gay man,

wasn't a stereotypical gay black man, was a fucking hard ass. Was a hard ass. You know what I mean? and and stayed that way. I mean, he had that tenderness. He had that emotional and he had that vulnerability. But if somebody called him a faggot,

he would have beat them to a paste. Stack that shotgun, smooth the name out. Exactly. And bye-bye. How do, do gay people ever come up to you and approach you about that specifically?

Like, because you're, you're, I mean, I'm a gay icon because I'm a big black woman. Gay people love them a big black bitch. It doesn't matter who you are. Whether, whether you, And whether you got drunk down there, but if you are a big black bitch, they love you. But I wonder how they react to you.

And if that's been a party life since that show, I'd be coming up to you. Yeah, I've gotten, not a lot, but I've had a few gay men just come up and say thank you. Mm-hmm. You know, and, you know, that means a lot more than anything else. You know, I mean?

You know, because out of all the things that the character has done, for me and for people who've watched it, watched him, you know, the fact that I think that I may have had something to do with the healing process in the hood is probably my biggest achievement of Omar. You know, when you got, you know, like, overtly straight men, like, you know, like, no, don't even let your knees touch my knee, you know, type of dude. that come up to me in the street

and wrap their arms around me and confess their undying love? I mean, it's like, you know, I just like, you know, that's part of the, to me, that's part of the healing process and breaking down the walls that separate us as, as a people.

So, yeah, you know, it's like, you know, I don't, you know, I don't get the gay community coming at me in droves, you know, saying that that I would care, either way, but I have had a few, you know, men, and you know, it's crazy because the men that have come and say, thank you, you can't tell they gay. You know, they're not stereotypical. So it's like, you know, man, I got a lot of, Omar really, like, you know, they're saying little things without having to say it. And I'd be like, you know, okay, I'm up in a man, brus, you know, thank you.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Do you have a self-inflicted one story that you want to tell? Yeah, yeah, I do Okay, good It's actually the first time I've been talking about this But I like you I'm glad I was in Rhode Island

Shooting a film And my mother calls me They just say I was On a binger And she goes I bet you're gonna be jealous of me right now I'm like why She goes

My other son is coming at Pennsylvania And I'm gonna go see her her other son is, as we know, I'm now President Obama. Oh. So I'm like, I'm on the first thing there. Right, right. And I get on the train.

I go to Pennsylvania from Rhode Island and I get there. I walk in to the forum. I just want to hear him speak, right? Like about 3,000 people in the room. And his campaign manager comes to me and she was Michael. you can make it. So I said, no problem. So she says, we have a favor to ask you, would you, we have volunteers who've been calling the phone, manning the phones. If we want to reward them at the end of the week, the person who made the most phone calls, we want to reward them with a

phone call, a congratulatory phone call from you. I said, sure, no problem. She goes, great. I get in the room, I'm there no more than maybe 10 minutes, and this woman goes on the stage in front of all these people and announced that I've just became part of the campaign. Like, I joined the campaign. Right, right. And I went from just being a regular Joe Blow in that room to, like, the cameras got shoved in my face, the microphones. They put the secret servicemen on me. So I was like, yo.

So my family, my brother, my mother, my cousin's wife. It was about, I had about six family members in the audience. We were scattered about. So I immediately felt the need to have my family around me, right? You know, I was fragile. I was not in the best frame of mind here. I've been up for a couple days. So, you know, my brother, my big brother, Kay, got me.

And he's like, I immediately felt like a five-year-old kid. He's, like, taking me from school. He got me by the hand. And, you know, he said, Mike, we go get, Mom. And we walked and, like, it was literally pandering. And we went, we got my mother, came back. They sat us all in one area, right? So, toward the end of Obama's speech, one of the Secret Service became, and said, you know,

would you like to meet him? Or I think one of it's the community, the campaign people came, said, we'd like to meet. I said, yeah, I would. He said, how many people you have? I said, there's six of us. She goes, let me clear that. So she went, she cleared it, came back, we go down to this room. And, you know, it started to hit me.

me that I'm about to meet the future president of the United States because I swear to you, I don't care what nobody says. I always knew this man. I knew it. I just had to joke around, but like, man, I told you, he told me already. I spoke to the people and they told me this is just, they're just doing the voting thing as just a preliminary, but he's already in. I would like, I would say things like that to people. So, um, you know, he comes in the room and all my insecurities just kicked in like to the 10th power. And I went and I hid behind him. my brother. He's, you know, I'm the smallest one of my family, so I kind of hit behind my

brother. So he walks in, like, my cousins, my arms, anybody is like at the door, you know, chest out way to meet this dude, and I'm, I'm cowering behind my big brother. So he walks in and my cousin's wife goes, you know, Senator, he goes, yeah, you know,

I instead, you said you love the wire, he goes, yes, that's correct. And he goes, and you said that, you know, Michael K. Williams is your favorite? I go, yes, that's correct. She goes, well, He said, where Omar at? That's my man. And he literally, like, started, like, walked past everybody looking for me.

He goes, that's my man, man with a cold. And he found me, looked at me, he grabbed me, man. And my mother calls me. He gave me the homeboy handshake. You know, one hand, you hug the other one. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I just felt like the biggest piece of shit. I'm like, here I am in the presence of someone like, you know, Barack Obama.

coming off of a three-day binger I felt like you know I took a shower and I changed my clothes but I felt like a real piece of shit like I don't deserve this you know I think about

how low I felt that day how embarrassed I was I felt like he could see all the shit I was doing to myself and I couldn't I could even look him in the eye barely and um i couldn't form a sentence i started stuttering and all i could say was i managed to get out is just god bless you god bless you he's like i know he must look to me like this dude is tweaking

right now and i i literally was um i was just i was one the lowest i ever felt about myself that you know i felt like damn god done spared my life and i'm been blessed to move in circles like this and to be in the presence of men like him and the least I could do is show up sober and feeling good about myself and so that was one that was a real low point for me I felt very embarrassed I was ashamed of who I was as a man at that day and um I vowed that the next time because there will be a next time because I'm his favorite character on the wire The next time I meet him, man, I just can't wait to look him in the eye and really shake his hand and not be cowering, you know, at my own shadow. So, sorry, guys, that was my little.

No, it's a great story. It's a great story. You know, I also feel like when you said it already earlier today, when you have demons, the way to banish them is to put them in the light. You know what I mean? You got to put them in the light. So talking about that moment, put them. that in the light and and uh because everybody has had those kinds of moments everybody has you know what i mean you put it in the light and you and you burn away all the darkness from it yeah and then you look

forward yeah thank you i received that i'm glad this has been extraordinary thank you for giving me this time thank you for telling you about your life uh this has just been fucking awesome thank you for inviting me. You know, you were very fun to talk to. And keep in contact with me. You know, I'm on Twitter head. I'm going to tweet. We're going to blow some shit up, right? We're going to tweet some shit up for sure. All right. Thank you so much. All right. That was Michael K. Williams. That was just an extraordinary conversation with an extraordinary artist. And I just loved it. I mean, when I was doing the interview, I was like, oh, this is going to be such a great episode of the show. He was just incredibly honest and forth.

coming and and I'm so grateful. I'm grateful when people come on the show and they just want to tell their entire truth. You know what I mean? Because it takes a lot to do that and it took a lot for him to do that and I was really, really psyched that he agreed to do the show and grateful that he spent as much time with me as he did. You can see him on Boardwalk Empire. You'll be able to see him in all kinds of shit because the guy's is crazy busy and obviously he has a brand new deal with funny or die, which I think is a fantastic left turn. Can't just wait to see what comes out of that. I'm not going to do an apolloja for the show today. We're just going to just close it out and say, thank you for listening.

You know what to do. Come follow. Come tweet. Come Facebook. Come say what's up. And there'll be links on the website to find Michael on Twitter and all of that stuff. And you could always find the music on this show by going a girl on guy and finding the episode in question where you can see the name of the song and also click through and

purchase it. And as usual, I cannot wait to see one. on the next one. Late. at his command Well, you don't have to worry You say from Satan You gotta keep the devil