Girl on Guy with Aisha Tyler - girl on guy premium ep x38: pamela adlon

Episode Date: October 22, 2015

join pamela adlon of louie and king of the hill and aisha as they slice through growth, change, evolution, love, loss, honesty, avoidance, and playing bourbon chess. plus pamela is getting free. it's a long time coming.

This episode of Girl on Guy is special bonus content available only to Girl on Guy app users. This is Girl on Guy. Hey, everybody, welcome to a very special episode of Girl on Guy, just for my premium subscribers. How's it going? This is the first premium episode of Season 5, and I know you're going to enjoy it. It is so wonderful, delightful, thoughtful, smart, all of the things that I strive to do with this show, and I don't always accomplish, but that I pursue assiduously every day

as much as I possibly can in my life and also on this show. It's a great conversation with a really fucking interesting person, Pamela Adlon. Now, Pamela, first of all, I'm going to do the epilogia before this show and say that I knew Pamela Adlon just from Louis,

because I work all the fucking time and I don't watch enough TV and I don't know a lot of things, but she is a genius and she has done a lot of shit. She is the daughter of Maxwell Segal, to hope I pronounced his last name right, Don Maxwell Segal,

who was a TV comedy writer, producer and an author of comic books and science fiction pulp novels. We talk about him and his work. He created the show that eventually evolved into A.M. New York and then The Today Show and wrote all kinds of interesting things. Also, you're going to hear all about it. her parents and how interesting they are.

But she has been on a million shows. She is the voice of Bobby Hill on King of the Hill, and also has done work in lots of things, including Greece too, and California Cation. And obviously she pays Pamela on Louis, where she is also a consulting producer and writer. So she's a pretty fucking amazing person. And you will find that out when you listen to this show. And I'll make sure to link to more about her online when you go to Girl on Guy.net.

She, God, I just, I can't say enough about her. This is such an interesting conversation. She's such an interesting woman. We could not get it all done in the time that we had available to us. She has a brand new show she's working on for FX. We talk about that, but it's just a great conversation. I'm going on on about something that you can actually experience in real time. So let's just do it.

This is a very special episode of Girl and Guy, just for my premium subscribers, just for the Vanguard of My Army, coming out of just right out of the Girl and Guy Bunker. And right into your face. We're raw. We're raw. We're raw. We are a little bit of exposed nerves. We're ladies of a certain age. You know, at that... Looking at the bar. My bar. Well, Pamela Allen, welcome to my show, first of all. Thank you so much. We are ladies of a certain age, which I think like...

So just before we started in the bathroom, what I thought was, I am a certain age, which I feel like I'm comfortable with. But I also feel mentally not that age at all. I feel like I'm aging backwards in some ways. Like I feel, and I don't mean younger, like, hey kids, you know, let's go dance at the tables. But just like my curiosity about things and my desire to have new experiences is actually increasing, I think, rather than decreasing. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, for me, you know, as a mom and I have two teenagers now and my youngest is 12. and two of my girls are all of a sudden gone out of my house.

My oldest daughter's in college in Chicago, and my middle daughter is in boarding school in Europe. Wow, that's fancy. I mean, not fancy, like, woo, but just like, that's a big thing for a teenager to do to go that far away from home. It's crazy, and it's, you know, circumstances led her to that. And so her dad lives in Europe. And so I don't know why you're laughing.

I didn't do anything. Well, this isn't an oral medium, A-U-A-R-L, but you're just doing things with your hands. I did things with my fingers. Anyway, so, you know, it just turned out to be that way. So I literally, this whole summer has been a massive summer of change. and, you know, lots of ups and lots of downs, and, you know, now it's me and my 12-year-old, you know, all of a sudden.

And just dealing with, you know, it was very intense, being with all three girls all the time. I mean, it's been that show for seven years for me. Yeah. By myself, raising them, and all of a sudden, two-thirds are gone. and I'm just kind of fetally like curled up every night just going, ow, and I should have done everything differently.

What's my legacy? Yeah. Oh, God, this is so interesting. What's the revisionism going to be? It feels crazy. Oh, okay. I have thousands of questions now. Okay, good.

And one statement. Yeah. So the one statement is that my mom is always saying that to me. I should have done things differently. said have done things differently. And I'm always telling her, you did exactly what you could do with what you had at your disposal at the time. And you may look back and think, God, I made a million mistakes, but I honestly can't remember one. You were just a fucking human being. Like, that's what I remember about my mom. So I think that's worth considering. You know what I mean? My parents

divorced when I was 10. And my mom, my mom took my sister. My dad took me. So my mom, I think, feels a lot of regret. Oh, they split you guys. Yeah, that like she maybe wasn't, she didn't take me. They couldn't afford it, you know, and a million other things. And my dad did a great job. And I loved living with him. But I mean, I think, I don't know. I guess my point was just that, like, you know, like parents are allowed to be human. And I think when your kids get to be grownups, they all of a sudden go, oh, okay, she was just this person trying to get her shit together. The same way, I'm just this person trying to get my shit together. Yeah. I mean, you know, the hard part is it's like, um, with, with my girls, their dad left and he lives in another country

and has a whole other family, and it's like the whole California law thing, and I supported, you know, they came after me and the whole thing. Right. Not to, you know. Oh, but you had to support him. Oh, yeah, because it was the whole, the, right,

I know my rights are. Who said it were the breadwinner, right? Exactly. Yeah. And so I had to deal with that. I had to deal with all the legal shit and all the stuff that happened after that. But the piece of advice everybody gave to me is, you know, you don't shit talk the other parent because the kids are, they're one half of each of you.

You know, whether it's biological or not, like your kids, you raise your kids, they're, you know. Yeah, and they're thinking, well, if he's a bad person, maybe I'm a bad person. That's right. So you never want it to be like that. But at a certain point, the girls are going to be like, what's going on? You know, mom. I'm 15 now. I'm 16 now.

I'm 17 now. You know, talk to me. Or they see what's going on. And it doesn't really, I mean, even if somebody, I'm not necessarily talking about my thing, but, you know, if people look at their parents and one parent maybe isn't so savory, you know, you just have to be able to say, look, I know what my mom is, I know what my dad is, but I still want to love them. Is that okay? Absolutely. Absolutely. Because you have to move on with your life. And the whole concept of, which is a big one, forgiveness, which I hope that I got through to my kids, but everybody's still learning it. I am. Which is, that's the biggest thing you can give. You know, in Jewish, They say, in the Jewish.

In Jewish, they say it's the biggest thing you can do is to forgive. And it really is true because you have to give everything to give forgiveness. So that's a tough one. That's a tough one. Forgiveness is a freedom. I feel like a lot of times it's very hard to do, especially because we were talking about kind of what you want to feel and then what's true about your feelings, right? What you want to feel is forgiveness.

And then what you do feel is like anger and herd and resentment and a bunch of stuff that's in there, right? That's not active feelings. It's just in there. Yeah. And you know what? You'll sit with that. And it's like being a hoarder. Oh yeah.

You'll savor it like a lozenge, right? It's like when you see those hoarder shows and the people walk in the front door and they're already five feet up because there's shit on the floor. Shit. Literally buckets of shit. Ah, that show is so great. Or like newspapers or whatever. And, you know, that's what is going to be your legacy for yourself. Right.

Everybody else is going to be like, we've all moved on. Everybody has to move on. And so this is something that I'm telling myself as I'm saying it to you. Right, right. Because we're being brohos and we're doing this. Yeah, we are. But so, okay, so here's the thing about forgiveness that I wonder if it's come into your field of vision, which is the idea that forgiveness is not just about something you're giving the other person.

It's literally the thing you're giving yourself. Yes. You're freeing yourself. You are freeing yourself from anger. You are freeing. Like, you think, oh, I forgave them and somehow I let them off the hook. No, you're letting yourself off the hook from all that shit. That's right.

And I think when you see that, when you can see it that way, it becomes a little easier to do because you're like, I just don't want to feel this way anymore. I want to move on. I need to move on. That's right. With my life. And this person, the fact of the matter is, this person that you're pissed at is probably skipping down the street, living their fucking life, not thinking a thing about it, right?

That's the most amazing thing because it's like, you know, what do they say, like, idle hands or the devil's workshop or whatever, if you don't have, if you're not occupied, if you're not occupying yourself. So if you're sitting there thinking in, you know, and wallowing in some pain and some misery or whatever, the other people or whoever, whoever's focusing on that thing or just, you know, anything that's going on in the world, you know, it's not productive. Nothing's going to happen. Everything's going to improve. And you've given them this power, this power over you, right? This person who's not thinking about you, moving on with whatever their lives are, no matter what kind of awful thing they've done, they're living their life,

but they still have, you've given them power over yours. That's right. That they don't deserve. That's right. And I want, I, the, the big thing is for my daughters, I want them to be able to move past that in any kind of relationship that they get into in their lives with girls at school, if it's bitches, if there's guys who are treating them poorly, or if they do something sketched out, be able to look at that, you know, forgive yourself, move on. Think about, you know, is she being a bitch to you? Well, do you know what her story is? Do you know what happened to her that morning in her house or whatever? So it's, I just feel like there's a certain kind of thing that it's a bigger subject, which is like what's everybody doing? Don't have to focus on that.

You have to focus on yourself. And that's the only way you can move on with anything in your life. You know, it's like we sit here and we're just like, I mean, We're like no age anymore because like these days it just doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean anything. But you know, I mean, there was a guy who just did this sprint. He's like a hundred years old. I saw that story.

Did you see that? Oh, he was, he sat like a bunch of world records. And you said your mother's getting a sleeve. Oh, my mother is getting a full tattoo sleeve. She is like midwork on a full sleeve, a full like yakuza style, full color. I saw that episode of the show on the day that my mom. my 70 fucking 9-year-old English expatriate mother called me and said, hello, darling.

And I said, hi, Mom. And I always look at the phone like, it's my mom. Like, I see her name. And I'm just like, get off the phone. Don't talk. Right. Let's go. And she says, I say, how are you?

And she said, well, knock wood. And I said, what's going on? Oh, I've done something very stupid. What, Mom? Well, I wanted to go up to, you know, see the sunset, you know, where we saw the fireworks. You know, we live up in the mountains. So I said, uh-huh, uh-huh. Yes, and I took a skateboard and I wanted to take photographs.

Mom, what? Oh, my God. Tell me the story. Tell me the story. Hurry up. Tell me the story. Yes. And I, there was gravel.

Oh, wow. I fell. Are you at the hospital? Where are you? I'm home. I'll be right over. Hang up. Go over at her house.

Contusion on her head. Smash nose. Hole in her upper lip. No broken bones. Oh, my God. Nothing. Hairline fracture in her nose. 79 years old.

That's it. And then that next day, you're like, 70 is the new 30. My mom's getting a sleeve. And I'm like, well, it made me think about it. made me think about it because I was thinking, you know, she's on her own. My dad died 22 years ago. She's living her life in the world. My brother's, you know, on watch. He's like, we should get her in assisted living. We should just put her in a place, whatever. And I'm like, she seems pretty

with it. Like she's loopy, but I get loopy. My friends get loopy as fuck. I can't remember anything. Seriously. So, and she's having fun. And then I saw you talking about your mom and I was like, you know, God damn it. You know, my mother is like, what, she's 30 something years older than I am. So I'm going to put myself in a box, in a house, you know, in 30 years. Think about it. That's the thing. You see them as this thing, right? She's 80, so she should be here in her life. And you're like, But in 30 years, am I going to want to fucking be like in a bed with rails on the side? Like, fuck that shit. No, no.

Fuck it. Yeah. It's terrifying, but it's also, I mean, everything's being, you know, I feel revisioned, but re-envisioned. Mm-hmm. Re-invisioned. But in terms of, I know I veered, we were talking about forgiveness. We can do any, this is your hour, man. It's all good.

It's all very good. I said Jewish. That's all. We can end it now. But you were talking about the fact that your life had changed, like, dramatically this summer. And I was saying I had questions about it because I feel like something that is really interesting. And I talk about, like, the idea of, and I've talked about this on the show. So people listening know that, like, you know, like, do you have to wreck your life to make interesting art?

And, like, you know, do you have to have dynamism in your life to make interesting art? Yeah. And that sometimes, like, change is so painful. all. So we avoid it, even though it's exactly the thing that's going to propel us forward. Right? So, like, everything changed for you. And it's the change that's painful, even though the things are what's the right word.

The things that have happened, for the most part, sound good, right? One of your daughters is in college. The other's a way in, you're doing something exciting with her life. So those things are good, but it's like the way, I heard this quote, and it was like, something like stop, we have to stop saying change is hard. It's how we react to change. That's hard. The pain is our reaction to change rather than just accepting that change is a part of being alive.

Yeah. You know, I mean, that's the, I did, I did like this weird, cool independent movie with Sandy Bernhardt like years ago. Cool, cool, cool. And so she said to me, she was so great. like we became besties, you know, during that time. And she was like, you have to do Kabbalah. You have to do Kabbalah. And I was like, oh, fuck, I don't want to do anything.

I don't need any more stuff. I don't do anything. I'm not Jewish. I'm not all. I'm not, no, it's not Jewish. It's like a whole thing. But there, so I brought my friend Susie and I was like, we have to do this. I don't know why I guessed it was Esmond.

Susie. No, no. Ballad Ban. Oh, Susie Ballaband. Oh, Susie Ballaband. Do you know her? Yeah, I do. I do. Well, I know, because I know Bob.

Okay, so Bob's cousin, Sue's. So I brought Susie with me to the Kabbala Center on Lake Pico in the Jewish ghetto down there. And so we started taking classes with that guy, Aiton, who became like Madonna's guy and Ashton and everybody. Yeah, exactly. And so he was like, we would be like, I mean, Aiton talked to me today. Like, we would be, you know, so it was a lot and they would call you so much and there were phone books of things to learn, which is where you lose me. Right. I will not read a pamphlet. Fucking homework?

Nothing. It's just like, do sign language and be like, okay, your half Torah is, go do it. Please don't make me read a thing or whatever. Because I like my books. Please don't assign me a thing. There's a point in your life where you're like, I'm done with homework. Yeah. That's part of my life.

I just, I couldn't do it. So we did a couple classes and I got like this really cool thing, which was the Kabbalah formula, which is rather the proactive formula. And so I always remember that. Like that's the thing that I kind of took in, which is, you know, you acknowledge something's happening. So if something, you know, something fucked. happens in front of you. Like somebody flips you off in the car or whatever.

You look into the light, you acknowledge the light, and then you say, why is this light coming into my life? And so it's about being proactive and not being reactive. And so it's extremely hard to do that when you're in a house with kids and all of that kind of thing. When you're growing up with your parents and your brothers and sisters and all of that kind of thing. If you're in a situation in your life, if somebody brings up something that gets right inside you. So I guess I don't even fucking know why I started talking about this one, but proactive, not reactive is the greatest way to kind of deal with things. And the idea of

being proactive in terms of change, like instead of saying like, oh, this is happening to me and it's awful. Things are changing and that's painful. Right. I wish it went back to the way it was and it's happening to me. It's happening to me versus why is this happening?

Yeah, yeah. Why is this happening also changes a natural it's unavoidable. I'll tell you why it's happening because it's an unavoidable aspect of being alive. So let me jump in, move through it in an active way and embrace it and even embrace the parts of it that are really painful. Like, okay, so a part of being alive is that sometimes you feel like shit. Part of

alive is that sometimes shit hurts so fucking bad. You don't know how you're going to go on, but you are going to go on because that's also a part of being alive. That's right. And you're you can't freeze yourself for your life in Amber, even though we all would like to, you know. That's true. I like that in Amber. Yeah. You know, we can't. You know, we just think like I want to preserve this moment, but nothing is preservable. Well, it's the whole thing like, you know, those people who said everything I need to know I learned in kindergarten. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It is that way. It's like count to 10.

Take a deep breath. You know, don't react so hard. It's like everybody right now, a lot of, you know, kids, my daughter's age, my oldest daughter who's 18 and that age and maybe even getting towards my 15-year-old daughter's age, a lot of those kids have been through a lot of shit already. They've been depressed. They've been in real. rehab already.

Wow. In and out, by the time they graduate high school, they're like, I want to get my shit together. And I'm like, seriously? Well, we started doing that shit in our 30s. You know what I mean? Like, all of my people who are like trying to get their shit together now in their 40s and their 50s. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, a lot of these kids are, it's too scary.

I have anxiety. I feel anxiety. I can't imagine what my kids are going through and their friends are going through. They all have PTSD, I'm convinced, because of the internet and their phones have fucked their faces off. It's over.

And just all this opportunity, it's like being the richest kids in the world and how we used to read books about kids who were completely affluent and all of that stuff. What are you going to do? Right. How do you get...

How do you process? How can you? I just feel like none of us can process. None of us are able to be quiet. No. Or still for even a minute. We can't. No, no, no, no.

I can't even be in the car without doing a second thing while I'm driving, which is... I understand highly illegal, but, you know, I mean, like, at every stop sign, I'm picking up, like, a step line, I'm picking up my phone. Like, let's just sit here. I know. Or I'm like, oh, I have to put a podcast on. I have to listen to something. have to be doing a second thing at all times.

I'm not texting while I'm moving, guys. But you know what I mean? Like I am like that way, like in the car, like wanting to constantly. And that, our brains are really built that way. I go, okay, I'm so deeply into my 40s, and this is not a part of my growing up. I didn't have this, you know. So I can sit in a car. Can you?

I can sit in a car. This is me talking to myself. Telling yourself. In the car. I can sit in a car. Oh, look at you, look at you. And I look around and it's frightening. I mean, everybody's on their phones.

And it's unforgivable that we can't have stillness and quiet within ourselves. We're not giving it to each other. We're not giving it to our kids. The kids can't cope. No, no, they can't. And we can't cope anymore because of all the FOMO and all this. All of it. Yeah, intense, crazy, fomo.

I mean, I think there's something about the idea of this expansive opportunity that's exciting. But it's almost like our opportunities are ahead of our brains, right? Yeah. Like, literally, we've made this massive kind of physically leap forward in terms of evolution, but, like, as animals, we haven't evolved. Right? So we're operating at a level, like, above our brain capacity. And we just can't process all of it.

And so you're right, people are so anxious now. So anxious all the time. We have so much opportunity and we don't know where to take the opportunity from almost. That's what it feels like. How to evaluate it, decide what's meaningful? How do we process the news and the media and information and what we're taking in? So I was watching Seth Myers. two nights ago,

and my 12-year-old walks in, Rocky, and she says... That's the best name ever for a girl. She's the best. That's fucking cool. So she walks in, and she says, why are you laughing, Mom? And, you know, and it's kind of late, so she knows she's like...

Supposed to be in bed. I'm up. And I said, well, I can roll this back if you want. I'm watching about Planned Parenthood. And Seth Myers was breaking down, basically all the news. And he talked about this person stealing a hundred guns

from his next door neighbor and he looks at the camera and he's like, I'm just wondering about the neighbor. Not really like. And he's like, no, I still have 400 guns. And he's breaking down the news in this great way. And he broke down the Planned Parenthood hearings

with Cecil Richards, which was an unbelievable thing for me because I went to their fundraiser last night. which was really exciting. But so Rocky and I are watching, and I'm constantly saying to my daughters, you guys know what Planned Parenthood is. You guys know.

And she's like, yes, Mom. I know. But I was able to watch this with her, him break down the hearings, see these congressmen, see all these people put her feet to the fire. And then the rest of the news. and I said to her, you know, I'm so grateful for people like Seth Myers and John Stewart and all these guys,

because honestly, I wouldn't be able to sift through the news by myself. What you guys do on the talk, how you broke down everything with the, you know, the Bill Cosby thing, and you guys were really honest about it, and it was just like a really big deal. it's people are you know so afraid to like throw different opinions in one mix you know so I said to to my daughter

this is so valuable to me because I like to see somebody who is smart and has an opinion it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be mine but it helps me process the information that's coming in and he breaks it down in a funny way which I respond to, but otherwise, I'd be so screwed.

Oh, no, it's, people are drowning. And I think it's why you have things like Fox News and these reactionary kind of, you know, everybody is so afraid, like, so afraid that you have somebody like Donald Trump who can, like, be leveraging people's, like, crazy, crazy fucking, you know, I can't think of the fucking word for the phobia of others. That's terrible. For the who? for the fear of others.

I'm having a stroke. But do you know what I mean? Like there's this fear of other people? There's a word for it, but I can't think of it right now. I don't know. But let's just call it misanthropy. But you know what I mean? People are just like so fucking afraid of something that's other, right?

Afraid of change. That's right. And the news is so oppressive now. And maybe it's always been impressive. We just get more of it. We have access to more of it. It's impossible to process. It's like trying to drink from

a fire hydrant. It's true. And I honestly, my job is to talk about the news. Yeah. I don't watch the news. How can you? I mean, I am the kind of person who like, I mean, I like will burst into tears during a news story.

Like I, you know. Oh, I know. I once went to like a photo exhibit about Rwanda and I like had to be like carried out of it. So like I'm not. I just can't. I mean, you know, I can't fucking do it. And I want to.

I feel like, you know, you're an asshole, Aisha. You need to know, you can't just be this bitch who like doesn't pay attention. That was me, like, for years and years when I was pregnant and they were babies and everything. And I just was like, I can't watch any of this. And now, you know, my 12-year-old's like, Mom, I want to see the news. I want to see what's going on. But the last two Republican debates, which I, you know, I watched by myself in my house screaming at my TV. Drinking is always good.

Going. Drink and sit and watch and drink. By myself and I'm going, are you fucking kidding me? Are you fucking kidding me? That's amazing. Right. So what I do is I text with my super Republican brother, father of three boys, we are polar opposites.

How interesting you have three girls and he has three boys. And you guys are polar opposites politically as well. We are polar opposites. That's fascinating. Both of the mother of his boys and the father of my girls both moved thousands of miles away from our kids. This is so interesting. At the same time, it was fucking nuts.

Wow. And we're sitting there going, what happened? Like, how did we draw this in or whatever? Right. So, you know, for years and years, my brother and I wouldn't finish a meal. It was like, I would say something like,

what about the Kyoto Accord? And he would go, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, Pamela. Boom. that everybody walks away, and we're like in the Poconos in a beautiful, like, nine-course meal, and like we left both of our ex-spouses sitting at the table going, well, we're going to leave them soon anyway, so we don't care about. We can plan it together. Are you squirling away money?

Mine's in a coffee jar. See you Thanksgiving. But, you know, So I texted the last two Republican debates with my Republican brother, with Louis C.K. and Judy Gold, which is I think such a fucking great panel. That is a nice collection. You know, and just so amazing. But I came up with this brilliant idea because I thought Megan Kelly was really

ballsy and like I really loved how she, because I, I say to my brother, my fucking Jewish, amazing, best dad in the world, Republican brother, when Megan Kelly says, so what did, what did, did the Lord speak to you this morning? That last question she put to all of them and it's just like, and fucking Scott Walker, whose own family probably doesn't want to be in the same room with him. They're like, dude, can you just not? You know, dad, I'm actually Jewish now. Like, you can't even imagine these people, like, with families.

But I thought she should run the Democratic debate. Right, which would be so interesting. How can we? Yeah, we're high-fiving on that. Thank you. She is smart. And I think she belies our general perception of that collection of human beings. See, I didn't think it was like, I didn't think she was being biased-y or Republican-y.

I think she did what she needed to do, which is like, I'm not going to softball this. Because, A, I'm a real journalist, and I want to make sure people understand this is a, this is a legitimate debate. Like, we're not going to come in here and just fucking, you know, lob a bunch of softballs at you guys and make this easy on you because then our own credibility, which is constantly under question, obviously, already, is going to be even more scrutinized. I mean, the way to, you know, it's like you're dead, you know, being the guy who's like yelling at you the loudest, you know, when you're, you know, at the track meet. Of course, because first of all, I want to make sure you're doing your best. So if they do care about the Republican Party and about that collection of human beings and having somebody rise to the top

that's actually capable of leaving the country. Kasich. Yeah. I mean, he's... What are we going to do? We need one. It's not going to be Trump. I don't know.

I just think the most capable is not going to get the nomination. And it's not going to be Trump. Probably. It's not going to be Trump. You know, it's so weird because Donald Trump, whatever, but every once in a while he says a thing that I just go, yeah. A broken clock is bright twice a day, and so is.

That's amazing. That's an old one. That's an old one. Yeah, even a broken clock is right twice a day. See, it's so funny because I, like, at the beginning, I'm like, well, I don't mind Trump because he feels Jewish to me. You know, because he loved Joan. He loved Joan.

And, you know, and he feels like very Hamish, and he smells like bagels. and like, you know, he's like New Yorky to me and then like all this other stuff. But, you know, I mean, I guess it's the... You have to find somebody. If there's going to be somebody, I mean, just some modicum of a soul. Please, I know.

And just a little bit of thoughtfulness. Please. Trump has the unique arrogance of someone who has failed upwards his entire, life. He literally feels entitled to win everything he does. He's never worked hard. That is the worst possible person to have for president.

It's why Schwarzenegger was such a shitty fucking governor because he's used to saying, I want a Pepsi. And then a Pepsi just coming. Do you know what I mean? And then I don't like this Pepsi. There's not enough ice. And then a new Pepsi is produced. That is not the person you want running your country. You need a fucking worker.

You need a worker. It doesn't have to be somebody doesn't have to be Oprah. It doesn't be somebody who's born in a shack and now they're a billionaire. But you have to somebody understands compromise and hard work. Trump does not, and Schwarzenegger did not. You know what I mean? He just thought he was going to fucking get his way because he's charismatic. Right.

I mean, I'm obviously a massive liberal, but I went to a really conservative college. I have a lot of very conservative friends and family members. I think that there are legitimate positions on both sides of the aisle, but like that pool of candidates just is a shit show right now. No, it's a shit show. And even Carly Fiorina, who I find mildly interesting, I don't know enough about her other than that, you know, she didn't do a great job running Hewlett-Packard. But then, by the way, Trump doesn't get to tell anybody about how they ran their company because he's declared bankruptcy like seven times. I know.

But because he knows how to, you know what I mean? Because my parents went bankrupt, so I understand that. But I mean, the thing is you do it the one time to restructure. You weren't just doing it repeatedly. Like just fucking get your house in order. Do you know what I mean? He's just a guy. He's a gamer.

He games the system constantly. That's how he operates because he believes that the system is set up for his benefit. But it's so, it's so crazy because everybody's like reconfiguring, reconfiguring. And now, you know, everybody's shitting on Obama. I'm fucking sick of it. When people look back, people are going to see that he's one of the best presidents we've ever had. God, it just drives me.

see it. Crazy. And so, I mean, I have his poster on my wall that says Cici Puede. I mean, it's just like, I will never take it off. He will be one of the greatest presidents we've ever had. And the problem is, again, we were talking about change. This is a guy who ran on a campaign of change and came in with the intent to change things and has done almost everything he said he was going to do. He didn't pitch one thing and do another. He came in with an agenda that he executed. and it was so alarming and painful to people that this has been the blowback. But when people look back,

they'll be like, this is a guy who came in and he executed on what he said he was going to execute. Bill Maher broke it down brilliantly too about Obama. You know, again, those guys, you know, help you, like you guys, help you process the news and all that stuff that's coming in. But I want to know about you now. We're talking about you. Okay, yeah.

Okay. Where were you born? I was born. in a shack. I wish I was born in a shack. I was born in a shack. I was totally born next to Oprah in a shack. I was born in New York City

in Doctors Hospital in the 60s to a very English lady who met my father in in Paris at the USO and he was with the Armed Forces Radio Network. He's a journalist.

My dad was a writer and producer later, and she moved to America and she converted. I have to whisper that. Because she considers herself a real Jew and she gets very offended. Wouldn't people say, oh, she's a converted Jew? Yeah, she hates that. Really? Oh, God. I mean, she's got like curly cues and a black hat.

No, she's like. Hey, as my friend told me the name of that hat the other day, the fur hat, but I can't remember. I don't know. But he said those hats are like thousands of dollars, like the really nice ones when you see like the old guys are running around. They're lined with diamonds, aren't they? All right, I get fur on the outside and diamonds on the inside. There's a diamond mazouza in the center of that hat. Something, but she, you know, my little English mom.

And so, yeah. So that's interesting really quickly because so your mom, why was she living in Paris? Was she on vacation or was she working? She was living there for, I don't know if she, no, my mom was with the Armed Forces Radio Network. My dad was there with the Army. Okay. And she wrote three Dear John letters when she married, met my dad, which are, you know, for you young folks, which is, she was engaged. A letter is, no.

Yeah, yeah, a letter. Yeah. Fish we got to start out with what a letter is. Jesus. Unbelievable. Then we could move on to what a Dear John letter is. Anyway, people used to write letters, and it was the thing. You put an envelope.

And then in the letters, she wrote, Dear John letter was when you broke up with somebody or broke off in engagement. So she was hanging out with this funny Jew from Boston, and she came to America. and then... She had to break up with three different guys? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Your mom was on fire.

Yeah, she was hot shit. She was hot... She was hot, Marmite. And she meets this amazing American guy. The, you know, he was like really funny and the greatest storyteller and all that stuff. So she came to America, and then she had my brother and I were both born in the late 60s. and I always say this because my mother drives me fucking crazy.

If she touches me, it's like acid, like, I'm like, please don't. Let's not have contact, even though I bought the house next door and she lives next door. Okay, so there's that. Yeah. But then please don't interact with me after this is the last. All the things that drive me crazy about my mom, I came to realize is what kind of saved me ultimately, which is there was an article in People magazine. Like, I guess it was, I guess when my oldest was really young or something.

And I remember reading it. I was in a recording studio. And it hit me that when I was growing up in New York City, there were a bunch of kids who didn't have arms and they had hands growing out of their shoulders. Oh, yeah. Flappers, and they were thalidomide babies. and so thalidomide was this drug that the doctors were giving the moms who were pregnant in the 60s and the 70s. For nausea?

For nausea. For morning sickness. My mother was sick the entire pregnancy with my brother who's older than me. So I came along sick the entire pregnancy. And I realized that because my mother is such a stubborn, my mother, breast fed us. They weren't doing that. The moms weren't doing that. And they were giving the moms

this thalidomide. And my mother was like, fuck you, I'm not taking... Fuck you, I'm not taking the lich. You know, or however she would say it. And it hit me. She's such a stubborn pain in the ass. And I have arms. Yeah. Because my mother said, no.

They wanted to put me on Ritalin or like whatever ADD was when I was growing up in the 70s in first grade. And my mother was like, no, fuck you. My daughter's bored. You're not putting her on pills. My mother told me,

last night I went to this Planned Parenthood event. And so this morning I saw her before I was taking my 12-year-old to school. And I said I went to this event and it felt I was electrified being there because of what's been happening. and because of what happened with the hearings and everything, and they torched the Planned Parenthood in Thousand Oaks yesterday. I did not know that. It was unbelievable. So to be sitting there with all these people, you know,

Lena Dunham, who's completely like, it's her job as much as girls as her job, and Nina Tassler and Alison Janie, and all these great people who've devoted their time in their lives. And I felt electrified. Like when I was watching the Jenks, the Robert Durst HBO thing, I watched

it in real time. And then when they arrested him, I was all exactly in the time. So I was like, this is happening and I'm in the right place at the right time. And we're doing something that's so important. So I told my mom about it this morning and she said, oh, I wish I could have gone.

I would love to have talked about my experience. My mother had a backroom abortion in the 50s. Oh, God. On somebody's dining room table. Oh, God. She paid $600 on a dining room. Think about how much money that was back then.

That's an insane amount of money. Can you fucking imagine? It's like $30,000 or something like that. My little, barely 20-something English mother who had come to America went to somebody's dining room table And she said, I wish that was around for me back then. I wish.

Then I spoke to my 18-year-old daughter this morning. And she said, Mom, I went into Planned Parenthood yesterday to get birth control and to get help, and they don't give it anymore. And I said, are you serious? She said, you have to pay. And I couldn't afford to do it. And she said, do you know that to get checked for STDs? And she's telling me all of that. I'm like, yeah.

and even a pap smear, anything. Any of those services, they're now gone. So anyway, the point is my mom was saying she wished that she could have told her story. Yeah. I mean, I said, Mom, you didn't have access to Planned Parenthood. She said, darling, abortions were illegal. That was not happening back then.

You know, and just how, anyway, so that's my mom. The thing is women had no resources whatsoever. It wasn't just in the bush. So that's where I was born, Aisha. I was great. Yeah. On a dining room table in a back alley. I don't get out much.

For the four moms who are listening to this. Oh, my God. I love you guys too. When you were growing up, because I guess what I was getting at when I was asking about your parents was that they sounded like they were very like kind of world-traveled, modern people. I don't know a lot about your dad and what he like the person that he was when you

were growing up. And he was a producer and then you said later you said he was a writer first and then later a producer. Yeah, I mean he you know my mom always supported him because he was struggling and he was trying to get jobs

as a writer and he was writing dime store novels and comic books and he was writing softcore porn. Got to make a living. Those kind of dime store novels, and he wrote under pseudonyms. And then he was writing comic books and stuff like that. My mother was working for Stikowski, this composer,

and she was working for this publishing house that published all these plays. So when I was growing up, like, I had every single play in my house. I read every single play. Ian Esco, Arthur Miller, Neil Simon, all of those. I grew up with all that stuff. And I would look for pictures of naked people in every book we had. Of course. Why wouldn't you?

Why wouldn't I? We had no internets. Yeah, exactly. That's like gold finding a picture of a naked person. Oh, God, I love to see naked things. It was really bad. It was just so scandalous. My mom had this one that was called How to Draw.

Also, my mother was an amazing artist. Her hands aren't good anymore. But my grandmother was an amazing impressionist painter. So we had a lot of drawing, how to draw, whatever, and there were nude models. So I used to jerk off to those. Rock and roll, lady. Get it done. Get her done.

So you had all this art around you when you were young. Yes. Yeah. Arts a big deal for me. You're so perceptive. I'm not, but I'm, I, I'm just listening. My walls are covered. Like if this was my fit, dude.

Well, my, I'm just, this is a new office. So as you can see, all of my art is still on the floor. And I haven't hung it yet because I was waiting for all my furniture to arrive. Yeah. And I just started to buy, I'm not like a big, look, I'm not Leonardo DiCaprio, just bought like a fucking $3 million Picasso or whatever he's up to you right now. But I do love arts. I'm just at the time in my life where I'm starting to think about buying art.

And I love it. I should take you. Yeah. I introduce you to some people. It's really interesting to me now. I'm always on the internet and I get little alerts when like artists that I'm interested in like pieces become available. That's cool.

But when you were young, did you have a sense of like, oh, was your sense of your life that it was infused with all this art, like this writing and this culture? Like did you have that sense? where you just like, oh, everybody has like every play and everybody's thinking this way. Yeah, I wasn't thinking about it like that. I just was like we moved around so much.

Did you? Yeah. Is that a function of money? Yeah, it was because my dad would get a job in California and we'd move here and then he'd get a job back in New York. We'd move there. So I was back and forth and I went to 13 different schools and, you know, I barely graduated

but thank God I changed high schools in the middle and I was able to You know, I guess it was just, I didn't really think about it in that way. You know, I grew up, you know, I guess feeling entitled like every kid does, but also we didn't have a lot of money. You know, like I wore my brother's hammy downs. I never felt like I needed more than I had, though. You know, I didn't.

parents were strict, you know. Strict. They were strict, like, in terms of, like, what was appropriate, you know, my English mother and then my very domineering father, you know, and so I would, you know, and even, like, having friends over, stuff like that, like, there was always something to say about everything. So for me, raising my daughters kind of a different, way of looking at things and

kind of restructuring your thinking. And so my oldest daughter, when she was little, her best friend was having a playdate with a boy. And I just thought that was really weird. Me. Right, right. And I'm like, oh, really?

A boy is having a play date? And then later, like, boys would sleep over and things like that. And then you're just like, oh. You know, your whole world be blown. No, it's crazy. I'm checking my daughter into college. We're in Chicago.

My best friend, Stephanie, comes with me. We're in Target. I think Chicago is the target. That's all I know. Really about Chicago. I spent 1,900 fucking dollars. I'm going like this in the shopping cart. Motrin, Benadryl, you know, butt wipes, toilet paper, soap, plan B, condoms.

I'm throwing it all in. All of it. And then just make sure the plan B and the condoms are just in there. No mention of it. But when you open the fucking cavity, we open the drug. I'm like, dude, that's plan B right there.

And she's like, okay, I already have one, but it's good if I have one for one of my roommates, like an extra. Because she's a little... I mean, this is the way, you know what I mean? By the way, she's running a clinic. First of all, I have your daughter. It's so funny because I'm trying to remember...

There was no plan B when we were in. college. However, and I was lucky, I was so terrified of getting pregnant. Like, I had, like... But we'd, like, totally punch ourselves in the stomach or something. Just fling yourself down the stairs. Yes. Old school.

Old school. Don't be a pussy. But there was some definitely some people in my life. I was like, bitch, you need, like, 18 plan B's. I think you could get plan B prescribed at that time. But it wasn't the actual plan B. There was just this thing where you took, like, a thousand birth control pills. It was like that version of it.

You know, you can just get like this. You get a prescription for birth control pills and you take like them all. Right. And then they just were like, why don't we just make this into one pill? And that's plan B now. Let's up the dosage. Come on, let's just clean this up. This is so it's like Motrin.

It's like if you're home and you're like, oh God, this really hurts. And like one day my friend said, honey, take four Motrin. It's one prescription strength. That's it. And I'm like, are you fucking serious? Right. You're like all the prescription strength, Motrin is, is eight Motrin. So just

like, you know, pump your brakes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what plan B is. When you, when you were growing up, you said you moved around a lot and so you were in all these different schools. And this is a really, this is a little bit of a hacky question, but it just, typically when a kid moves around like that, because you always hear that from kids who are military families, it affects the way they socialize. You know what I mean? Yeah. And typically, not all the time, I'm generalizing wildly here, but typically kids who move schools a lot become either really, really introverted

and they don't interact with anybody. Or they become super funny and outgoing, because they've got to make friends really quickly. Right. Which of those were you? I was, you know, I kind of got to a place where I was like, I didn't want to,

I didn't want to be here, I just wanted to be back in New York. Right. I didn't really feel like I belonged anywhere I was. I didn't get exposed to drug, sex, alcohol things because I was never really in with one group.

So, like, when I changed high schools midway through and I went to one school and they were carting a girl off and I was like, what happened? Oh, somebody put crystal meth in her ice cream. And I'd never heard of that. Like, you know, I wasn't exposed to any of that kind of stuff. I never went to parties. I didn't have a group of friends. I started really working as an actor when I was like, you know, like 14. Wow. It isolated me because then I was having this kind of success, which was confusing.

Yeah. You know, I did grease to my first year of high school and I was going to Beverly High. Right. And then when I finished shooting it, I fucking went through a windshield at the end of the shooting of the movie. On set? I was going, I had done my school work at Norwalk High School,

which is where Rydell was. Yeah, yeah. And then this woman that my mom had hired to watch me because she had my brother, who was my guardian. She didn't have seatbelts. And so she drove me from school to the set and on the way we got into a head-on collision. Oh, my God.

And then I couldn't finish shooting the movie. And there's this whole sequence at the end where everybody, all the T-birds and the pink ladies are jumping off this mattress. Yeah. And I should have jumped off with Leaf Green, who played Davy. But I was laying in bed with a broken knee. Were you in the hospital at that point?

Or you were just home? I was home in bed for almost three months. Oh, my God. I know. It was crazy. So then I was even more intimidated to go back to school. And I just wanted to be involved. I wanted to be in the drama department.

I didn't want to have a big part in a play, a little part in a play. They wouldn't even let me hammer a nail at that point. Because, you know, the teachers all had an agenda at that point and everybody in there's politics. Right, right. You know, it's like if you get involved in something, you sacrifice something. something else, but then I really knew that I wanted to just keep working and not go to school. Like, that's how I felt really good. Right.

On set, you felt like you were. I just felt like I didn't feel good in school. I didn't feel good going to regular school. And then we changed schools. I went to, I finished school at professional children's school in Manhattan. And thank God, because it was like the island of Misfit. toys. Right. You know what I mean?

Everybody was in the same boat. Yeah. Like in the front hallway, Uma Thurman's, like, she was on the cover of Vogue and Cosmopolitan, and she was, like, 12. And we were like, this is fucking weird. You know? And, like, we were all, like, going to that school, like, Christian Slater and me and Ricky Lake and then all of the musicians.

Right. You know, and the New York City Ballet Kids and School of American Ballet. and the models, and it was just weird, and we would sign ourselves out and go, like, eat at Fordham and whatever. But it felt better because they actually were helping me learn. Right, right. And I, like, took Western civilization and whatever.

So that really, I'm so grateful that I was able to change and take advantage of that opportunity. When you finished there, you were in Manhattan. And you already were a working actress, so you knew what you wanted to do. Yep. Did you have a plan? Like, I'm going to do Broadway. I'm going to stay here.

I'm going to go to L.A. Well, I just, you know, I wanted to just go where the work took me. So I came back to L.A. And then I got involved. I did a show. And it was called, it was a musical. And it was called Greetings from Venice Beach. Paul Gordon and Jake Ruska wrote.

And anyway, it got extended. And I was going to go to Sarah Lawrence. Oh, wow. And so I was pressured. I felt pressured. I was pressured to defer. So this is a conversation I recently had with my daughter who's in a band, and she was agonizing over whether to go to school.

And I said, you know, I deferred, and I shouldn't have. I should have just gone for it. Yeah. It didn't make a difference. I could, you know, but I was a teenager and I didn't know how to advocate for myself. Exactly. I mean, actors now at this age, you don't know how to say no. You can't.

No, and everybody's making you feel like this is the last job you're ever going to get. It's so true. It's just, it's heartbreaking. So, you know, oh, I'm going to miss pilot season. I remember I used to be like, what's going to happen in pilot season? Maybe I could do a Jake and the Fat Man this year. Yes. I don't think I can go with this interview.

Oh, my stomachers. Why don't they ever cast me in something like that? But the thing is you always are made to feel both by others and yourself on some level that every job opportunity, every acting job is the last acting job you're ever going to have. Or not even when you get the job, just the audition. This is the last audition you're ever going to. you're just always in this state of panic. I remember when, like, it was so shocking that Jody Foster went to college.

Oh, are you fucking kidding me? She's never going to be able to recover from this. You're Jody fucking Foster. You don't go to college now? Right, right. Like, what a waste of a working opportunity. And so, I mean, that was an amazing revelation to me to see somebody go, you know what? I'm going to go be a person.

Yeah. Natalie Portman. I remember when she did it too. Like I just, I remember clacking all this stuff. Sarah Gilbert was on Roseanne and left to go to Yale. Okay. And, I mean, she was on a show, like a hit show. Talk about pressure.

Yeah, you know what I mean? And they're like, well, just wait until the show's over. And she's like, no. And then they worked around her. I think she flew back and forth, but they kind of rode her down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Balls, just massive balls. Yeah.

You know? Because I think if I had been in that situation, I probably would have deferred too. Yeah. But thank God your daughter had somebody who had gone through that experience and could speak to it. Yeah. Because I think, you know, you think, oh, I'll just go back later. And then, you know, life just intervenes.

Yep. So did you ever go back? I didn't. I just did, you know, one short year. And it was wonderful. I mean, it was like, you know, and I can speak to that with my girls. I can say, look, I took. psychology,

Russian literature and playwriting. What the fuck I'm taking Russian literature? It was amazing. Cracked my head open. I read Joseph Conrad, Heart of Darkness, we broke things down.

I looked at literature and words in a way I never had and I've been a reader from way back. I'm a word pages book lady. And then I took psychology. It was the most exciting thing in the world. We studied Oliver Sacks and dopamine and all that stuff

way before the movie Awakening's came out. And it was just, it was so fascinating. I loved it. And then playwriting, of course, my first experience with us all writing in a group and sharing and reading out loud, which has led me to where I am today. I loved it. And I wish that I had just stayed in that and I didn't let anything

fuck with me but I had that stupid thing like I have a career I want to go back I just you know but that's my your path is your own you know what I mean

it's in it makes sense you know what I mean that makes sense that that's how you would feel and it makes sense that those are the choices that you make

and so you come back to L.A. Yep. To work. Yeah. So I just I started working and then I just did the whole thing. And, you know, I went from being like on the fucking facts of life when I was like 16 and making insane amount of money. And my mom invested the money and I bought a condo.

And, you know, my first car was a BMW, which, you know, is another reason my brother was pissed at me because his was a used lemon yellow. Dodge Dart. Literally, like, of all the cars. Yeah. He was just like, oh, fuck her. You know, and so, and then, you know, you go from that and being, you know, like this high profile, and I always wanted to work.

So, you know, I would get a job in a flower store or whatever when I wasn't working. And, like, I remember being in the flower store on Crescent Heights and Melrose. cross from Fred Segal. Oh yeah, I know that place. It just closed by the way. Moes? Yeah, Moes closed. I mean, but like... That was the best flower store in the world. Unless they're

renovating, but it's closed. It's so surreal. It's been there forever. It's been there since I've lived here. Okay, so I worked there before it was like the fancy new one, whatever. And I remember one of my agents at the time walked in and he was like, what are you doing here? And I remember thinking well, bitch, if you got

me a fucking job. If I was on the love boat, I wouldn't be here. But I always had a work ethic. Like, I really have this thing that you have, which is I just don't feel right unless I'm earning. I'm doing something. I'm making some money. So, you know, people would recognize me when I was, like, working at Alice Underground in New York City on Amsterdam Avenue, and I would be steering them away from the jacket that I wanted to buy. I would be like, no, you don't want, you want this section.

But, you know, I just, I always liked doing that. Of course, then things got lean and then you're not working and there's nothing happening. Which is the nature of this business for everybody. It's, it's like, so what else are you going to do? Right. You know, but during that time, like during the 80s, you know, it was not very interesting. we weren't really expanding ourselves, were we? No, we weren't.

I'll speak for myself, we. The we being me. I wasn't, I, you know, got very actively involved socially and believed I could completely change the world and threw myself into ending homelessness and was down on town and Fourth Street every single fucking day. and marched on Washington, and, I mean, made a documentary.

So fucking awesome. I mean, it's all of this stuff. And I just said to my 12-year-old the other day, and we're driving around, and it's like the amount of homeless people I see is shocking. Los Angeles is like, it's fucking insane. And I said, you know, Rocky, this really, it blows my mind

because I thought I was having something to do with abolishing this. finishing. You know, I think I abolished apartheid because I was with Earth Action. And we did some PSAs. Guys, I got signatures.

Oh my God. You don't even understand how we abolished apartheid. We totally. We abolished it so hard that we had stickers from the Bodie tree that said

abolish apartheid and racism and they were like the rostata color, the African flag colors. And I got to cut off the top that said abolished apartheid. Yeah, because we didn't play Sun City, okay? And so I was like, I totally did that.

Now I'm going to end homelessness. So that was funny. This is so off-piece. We're going to come right back to what you were talking about. And really, I'm embarrassed to do this, because it's going to sound like I'm hanging about me, but I just recorded a quote for the show I'm doing right now, and it was from the Dalai Lama, and it was the best quote,

and the quote was something like, it doesn't, I'm going to get it wrong, because I don't have it memorized, but it was something like, it doesn't matter. If the cause is just, it doesn't matter whether you accomplish it in your lifetime. It just matters that you try. All we can do is to continue to persevere.

Yeah. Regardless of, it was like, not regardless of the goal, but like persevered to pursue the goal regardless whether we're actually going to see it accomplished. It was really, really beautiful. Yeah.

And it just made me think of you because it's like, you know, something like homelessness or even something like, we're not talking about parenting and something about we, everybody feeling like, I thought we already fucking fought this fight. Yeah. Why are we still having this conversation? Because we're probably going to have to keep having it forever. Why are we talking about being gay anymore?

Yeah. Like insane. Yeah. Why are we still having this psychotic, you know, this country? in this fucking, you know, marriage license office. It's the law of the land, bitch.

And I remember I tweeted. Do you know that she had an audience with the Pope? Oh, God. You know what? I love the Pope, and I'm not a Catholic, and I'm actually not even religious. I'm so pro-po. But I like the Pope.

Oh, no, I want to look at it. What I like about the Pope and what I understand about the Pope is I think that the Pope is expansive enough to meet with someone like that and have it not really taint his perspective on the world.

He is a Catholic Pope. You know what I mean? He's the most progressive pope we've ever had. Absolutely. And I think he actually is trying to move the church towards more all-encompassing vision of humanity. But he's still going with this. God doesn't hate fags.

And who, no, no, God doesn't hate fags. And I don't think this pope is. And I think that we don't know what they talked about. He could have said to this woman, I know you think you're doing God's work, but you're not. We don't know what they talked about. I know it's the whole sketched out thing of them saying, who set up this meeting?

and did he know that he was a person? Yeah. Or was she brought to him and you never, you know. You never know. And he might be saying you can practice your religious freedom, but you can't do it this way. We have no idea what he said to her. You know what I mean?

So that was off-piece. But anyway. Jewish. You were doing all this. Oh, anyway, Jewish. In the Jewish. You're in New York doing the Jewish. We're going to run out of time.

So we have to raise the head because you were talking about the fact that like when you went to college, you studied playwriting and that that, even though that happened when you were much younger, it kind of led to where you are now. So we have, I want before we get to the end of the show, yeah, to talk a little bit about the middle of this time for you when you were a mom and then your work on Louis and now you're writing your own show. So you're living in New York and obviously, obviously now just hearing a little bit

about what you were saying to me earlier, your character on, her experience with her ex-husband and her son obviously mirrors yours slightly. Well, you know, it's so funny because I can tell you who, like, I worked with this, this actress who was a single mom, and I kind of, you know, did like a loose thing. Like, I was like, maybe, maybe my ex is like a jazz or, or like, he's, like photographer, like some European thing. And, you know, and my son is like, his name is sir. Yeah.

I really liked the concept that I would call my son sir, but it's spelled surge. So everybody calls him surge, but I call my own son, sir. And I knew that, like, he had to be exotic and black and, you know, and that his daddy was living in the world and whatever. her. But, yeah, I mean, she's so different than me, though. I mean, she's just like this, I guess, this mom who, I guess not so much in the way that she wanted things to be okay with her son's dad. So, yeah, I mean, it was interesting to me, I guess, you know, like something that's lovely about Louis is just how in so many ways it feels so, thoughtful and then unstudied at the same time because a very thoughtful show and I feel like for somebody, especially at that age,

like I know my husband who's 47 now like really relates to Louis, like he loves that show. Yeah. All the stuff that he's going through my husband is really like he tastes and he really like feels it and sees it in a lot of really interesting ways. But there's also this part of the show that feels like things are unfolding like really naturally and kind of like nobody comes back and goes and like it's like very unshiny. Yeah.

You know, I think that's a really good way to put it. It's, it's, it's very thoughtful and it's unstudied, you know. So it's like, it's, it's almost like, you know, my daughters love crystals and rocks and minerals, their little rock hounds, but they don't like the polished ones. Right, right. You know, they like, they like the stuff that, oh, maybe you can see something. You have to wet it, you to wet it to see the, Yeah.

To see the sparkly parts. You know, so it's, it's, I've been talking about writing a lot lately. And, you know, people have been asking me questions. And then, you know, people who are helping me with my new show. And I just feel like, you know, the whole thing is that it's, it's very situational what happens in your life. You know what I mean? Like, like what's going on right now? I saw you two weeks ago, and now we're sitting here having a conversation because we came across

each other. And so that's the way the stories would unfold on the show. You know, something crazy would happen. Or then I would hawk him for years and say, please write a show where you have to shit and you have the girls and you can't shit. because it was like from a story he told me when he took his daughters to school and there was a secret bathroom and he knew where he could shit.

But I was like, what if you have to shit and you've got the little one and she can't wait outside the bathroom and you've got to go into the bathroom? So like, I mean, we just played with this for years so finally he did, we called it shit race 2000. But, you know, like, some stuff like that would linger.

But a lot of stuff, he would be like, you know, like he wrote the whole the elevator story with the Hungarian woman. And, you know, I mean,

that literally started with him looking over his daughter's shoulder and she was writing a letter to AIDS. Dear AIDS. Oh, my God. And he was like, dear AIDS. And that was for school. That was the school project.

That's right. And so, you know, it's just one thing, led to the other. And I've, I've, I've learned so much about writing from Louis. I learned a lot about writing from my dad, but writing, you know, as an adult from Louis in the way that he says, you know, just fuck structure. Don't think about the story. You just keep going. Right. experiences. Keep going. You know, where's it going to take you? Keep going. And so when we work

together on the same projects or we're working on separate projects and we help each other, we just encourage each other in that way. Your life when you got married and had kids, was that like an intervention for you with your art? Were you just focused on being a mom? Were you trying to do both? Yeah, I was really like I was in the weeds. You know, because it was a shock when I got pregnant with my first daughter. Yeah, it was a big surprise. I had the surprise, the on-purpose sibling, and the band-aid. There you go.

That is awesome. So, anyway. The surprise, the, like, I need you to have company, and then the, like, let's see if we can patch this shit up. Yeah, let's fix it. didn't work, thank God. Yeah? Yeah. I mean, thank God I kept the Band-Aid.

I love my little Band-Aid. Right. But I mean, everybody has, you know, reasons to have kids, and it's like, you know, I just, I was lucky that I was able to, you know, make the choice to have my second and third daughters. You know, my first daughter. I had no choice. I just was like, what? Were you just in love and you, or are you, and you, we were just fucking a lot.

Yeah, just fucking a lot. Yeah. So it was kind of early on. And we were just like all up in that. Yeah. I mean, it was three months. Oh, wow. So it was.

Yeah. Surprise. Yeah. It's a serious surprise. Yeah. And I was like, okay, well, you know, I was in my late 20s and I was like, well, this is, sure, I'm so in love. The mind and the body are a mystery.

Yes, aren't they? It really are. Yeah. So, I mean, it was just like I was all up in it. And so, you know, I just, I was like a baby factory. I breastfed all of them. I was just in bottles and doing that. And I was working like crazy in animation.

So I was doing, um, maybe six animated series when I was pregnant with Gideon, my oldest. So, yeah, that was nuts. And, you know, and then I just, I kept working and I was lucky because I had the animation. And then King of the Hill, obviously, to-t-t-twe. Right. We knocked on wood, we spit. Yeah.

I threw something over my shoulder. So is my ex-husband. So, anyway. But I'm totally throwing things over. You're so Jewish. You're kind of Jewish. You know that? Yes.

She's really. I have a little bit of a, yeah. God. But I didn't. I wasn't really trying to do more than I could. That's a thing that is like a broken record for me,

but I only take on what I can handle. Right, right. Smart. You know? I don't understand how that works, but I like hearing that. I just never wanted to,

overextend myself and then not be able to whatever because it's so overwhelming raising the kids and then doing it by myself completely so I'd be like whoa whoa whoa only you know just I play chess and I say okay this gravy train is is not going to leave the station anymore I better get another one going I have to keep going you know you've got to keep your

momentum going in the world and in your life or else you'll stagnate and then it's harder to get it going. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. And you just you step away from it inside yourself, let alone in the real world. Yeah. Real world. As you came back to, you know, I mean, obviously King of the Hill becomes this, you know, kind of great sustain, ongoing thing. Were you doing live action stuff? Like you're doing that. Like was, was, was, and it's, and it's terrible people like, you did. Look, you didn't do any research. I didn't. I didn't do any research.

Was Louis the first thing that you did kind of, that was... No, what happened is I kind of felt like, I wonder how many more years this is going to happen. Like, maybe I should start, you know, going out again, going out for jobs. And I went up for pilot season that year. And I remember this one casting director said, I was so happy to hear that you were back working again. And all I could think, and I've told this story to Tom Kenney, who's the voice of SpongeBob.

And all I could think was like, yeah, I just took a few years off to win an Emmy. But now I'm back. No, totally. So I told Tom Kenney this story. And the same thing happened to him. Like he went like on a meeting for like a TV movie. And somebody said,

we were so happy to hear you back working again. and he said, yeah, it just took a few years off to become a global phenomenon. But now... But now I'm back. I want to be in your TV movie. Now I want to go out for pilot season 20 times a day. Yeah, totally. That was when...

I guess I had done a show called Unscripted for Grant Heslov and George Clooney. And it was for HBO. And so I did the last five. And, like, I played Pam... Pamela, like myself. but not because I wasn't married, but I was like me, the actor,

but not the married one, because I fucked Nick Panessa in the show, like this whole thing. So then, so I did unscripted, and then I went out, I was going to do this Pamela Anderson show. Oh, okay.

She was doing a show, and then I auditioned for Lucky Louie. Yeah. At the same time. And then Louie got crazy, and he wanted me to do his show. And he told me not to do the Pamela Anderson show. And I'm like, nobody's offering me either show.

I'm just being the person going to the thing. And then I did Lucky Louie. I guess it was like really unscripted that started me going back. Doing live action. Yeah. And, you know, I did guest star stuff and all that stuff. And so then I did Lucky Louie. And then I did some pilots.

I did David Kelly's show, and I did a couple of shows for David Kelly, Boston Legal Wedding Bells, and then Californication. And then, you know, in between Lucky Louie and Louis, Louis and I, we tried to write, we did. We wrote a show for CBS, which nothing, they were like, no. But, you know, also, God bless CBS, since I worked there, but like, when you see, Lucky Louie, when you see Louie, when you see Louie, when you see you see you. Yeah. Like, that's not the place for what you guys do. Yeah. What we wanted to do is they were very interested in a project that, you know, could be something that was palatable. But, you know, it just wasn't time. I mean, I don't even think it's still time. Even if it's time now. And I feel like I feel like there's a version of Louis that would work there. but it's not Louis's version. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, there's just, I think it's fair to say

that, like, somebody's sensibility and somebody else's sensibility are never, are never the Twain shall meet. Do you know what I mean? And, like, that's okay. Like, that's okay. Like, I'll never be a clean comic. Yeah, yeah.

I like to say fuck. Yeah. And I'm never, like, if there's a club that's like you need to work clean, I'm like, we're just not going to work together and that's okay. I'm not going to sit here and tell you why cursing is more,

better than not cursing. I'm also not going to subscribe to your fucking theory that if I curse somehow, I'm a lazy comedian. I like to say fuck. That's who I am. I'm not going to apologize for it. So I feel like what's been so lovely about what you guys are doing with your show

is that you found a home that let Louis and you be who you are. And I mean, I sound like a fucking kindergarten teacher, but I guess my point is like not just the language, not just the subject matter, but the total non-structure of some of the, I mean, that's not working at network television. No one's going to be they want a button. They want a third act. What's the B story? You know what I mean? Like that's just how they work. Like the fuck all the other

stuff that wouldn't work on network TV because you can't say shit. Yeah. Just the basic way that you guys think. Yeah. You would never be able to do that there. And that's okay. Like that's so funny because I saw all your all your CBS people were at Planned Parenthood last night. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. She was honored. And Julie Pern, Pernworth was. Pernworth was there and Peter Golden, who, you know, I mean, and everybody's like, they know. They're good people. They're smart. I know. Yeah. And we talked about how it's like, why is cable edgier and why is it, you know, more accessible? Why are people like, you know, flocking to the cable shows? And why is network considered, you know what I mean? This, like, dinosaur or whatever.

but because Peter Golden and I we saw each other at the Emmys last week too when we were talking about just I wish there could be a crossover I'd love to be on network television are you fucking kidding me? So here's the thing I mean like cable is pulling network in that direction that's true

it's an inexorable kind of a draw like network has to move that way to be competitive but at the same time this is not an argument for either network television does something very specific. This is a terrible analogy, but network television is McDonald's, and cable is like umami burger.

And like there are people who are never going to want to eat umami burger. They want a fucking Big Mac. Yeah. And like, that's just real. You know what I mean? Cable is amazing, but like a cable hit gets 3 million views and a network hit gets 18 million views

because a lot of fucking people like McDonald's. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So maybe, network television makes a better version of McDonald's makes a smarter more delicious McDonald's. But McDonald's has its place. Don't

write me a letter about how much you hate McDonald's. Okay, I know that McDonald's is doing a lot of time. But do you know what I'm saying? It's just they're just two different things. So you could and you would. You're so brilliant. You could do a network show. And there's probably a version of a network show that would be extraordinary and there

are great network shows now. Yeah. But cable provides a very specific outlet for a very specific set of artists. And cable does a different thing. I mean, network does a different thing. You know what I mean? That broadcast, broadcast, if you think about it, the word broadcast, broad, like a broad

audience. And so to appeal to all those palettes, they just work differently. Yeah. You know? That was a very long rant about TV. Okay, so I have to leave here in seven minutes, and that makes me an asshole. But, like, real. I'm like, I'm like, because I could talk to you for literally like four or five hours.

I know. So you're doing, you guys are you, where are you on the next season of Louis? Well, he's, you know, permanent hiatus right now. Is he? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. So we're not working on it now. He just decided he didn't want to make any more television for me.

God, he's like, it's fucking good to be him. You know what I mean? It's like, I'm done. I'm just done with this now. or whatever baseball. At the end of last season, like you can't fucking A. I want, okay.

I mean, actually, if I think about that as a series finale, it works actually. What was it? What happened? They're in the bathtub and all the water's running out and you're kind of his girlfriend

and kind of not his girlfriend. Wait, was that the end of season five, though, or season four? Is that the end of season five? I think, yeah. I've watched every episode that is available to me on Netflix. Yeah, I love, listen, I, I,

I loved it in the bathtub, you know, that was just, that was something that I got into my bathtub one day and the water spilled over and I called him because I live in L.A. and he's in New York and I was like, I know what we have to do. It was great. It was great. It was a lot of things. It was a lot of things about just like, like him, you helping him accept himself and like you kind of accepting how he felt about him. Like your character was just resistant. You were resist. You were so resistant to your feelings. It was so interesting to see a female character played that way because we never get to see women like that. If a woman isn't in touch with her feelings, she's like a nice queen.

You were just a real fucking person who was like fighting, you know, fighting feelings shit, which everybody does. Everybody is like, no, I don't want feelings. Feelings are going to fuck all my shit up, you know? So it's so good. But now you're writing your own show, and it's FX as well. Can you talk about her? Is it...

Yeah, no, it's... If you know anything about my life, I'm going to put it in my show. That's awesome. Yeah, so is that feeling brave and cathartic to you, or is that feeling frightening? You know, it's really good because my dad always said,

write what you know. And, you know, I'm going back a few years with the girls' ages, and I have so many stories to tell. It's insane. So, you know, I'm doing it for my daughters. You know what I mean?

Like, I really, I want to tell that story. I want to tell that story about feeling, you know, like just, you know, feeling that you don't need, like, a man in your life to be able to get through life. But kind of an omnipresent, maybe. I remember one of my. my gay best friends came to stay with us, one of the girls' gunkles, and he said, it just feels, he said, the girls are amazing and you're amazing. It's just his presence is here. Interesting.

And you just feel it. And I was like, oh, God. You know, but it's something that you always have to consider. I always think about what's going on with my daughters developmentally. What's going on? That's their relationship. their situation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How was it affecting that?

And then just being, um, uh, a lady, you know, of my age, living in Los Angeles. Young and beautiful. Feeling, yeah. But feeling like invisible, you know what I mean? Right. Feeling like, I mean, I never get to meet guys. Like there's just no opportunity. And every time you just cock blocked by like a 24 year old.

Yes. Long. That's a constant stream of cock blockers everywhere you go. You know, really, that's the thing. And like last night, after the Planned Parenthood thing, my two friends and I, and we're all in our late 40s, early 50s, we go to this wine bar in Beverly Hills, and we're sitting there, and this, like, older guy comes, and he's, like, checking out my girlfriend who's married.

Yeah. And I'm looking at her like, dude, what's up? And she's like, what? And she's looking at this guy who's like really looking at her. This has never happened in years because you go to restaurants, nobody looks at each other. Then we're leaving in this like 70-something year old guy comes out to my other girlfriend. He's like, hey, I've been waiting for you ladies all night. Oh my God.

The three ladies in black. And my girlfriend who like wants to meet somebody so badly, she basically taps him on the shoulder. like he's eight years old and she goes, okay sweetheart, that's nice. And we walk past, I was like,

I was like, dude, don't you want to meet somebody? She goes, no. That's not what I had in mind. So it's kind of that kind of thing, you know,

straddling the worlds of like, you know, I, you know, living in the adult world, being a mom, trying to find things to do.

You're happy, feeling whiskers come on your chin, that kind of thing. So just like real life. Yeah? It's good. That's good. Tell us some real life stories. Yeah.

Great. Are you enjoying it? Yes. You mean the writing? Yeah, but yeah. You know, like because before we say goodbye, like when you came in, not to put your shit on blast, but you were saying you were like, and you know, she said it on the air that you felt like you were in a raw place. Oh, yeah.

And I think like sometimes making art when you're in a rock place can be really great. Like really great things come out of you, but it can also be like terrifying. Well, for example, a woman who's helping me write a draft of the show came yesterday. It was our first session. And she walked in and the whole day I thought, I think I'm going to throw up. Like that's the way I felt. And I opened the door and she was like, hey, how you doing? And I just went and just.

and just my eyes started coming tears. It was like, I was like, I am so sorry. I have not, I don't get out much and I haven't been talking to people and I just feel very, very. And she said, I get that way when I write all the time. So it was like, it was really just a very sweet moment. And she brought me tums and toilet paper, which I had asked her to bring. So that was nice. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm going to, I think it's going to be, it gets more enjoyable as you kind of tick off and get work done and to relief, relieve some of the pressure. Good. Yeah. Hey, man. We did it. You're cool. We did it.

We're not going to do self-inflicted wounds because we went over. We went over. I mean, and I did a lot of them in the fucking thing. Yeah. Yeah, just you're living it. You're living it right now. But I want you to know how amazing I think you are. I think you're amazing.

It was really, really cool to talk to you. You too. Yay. That was Pamela Admon. I apologize in advance, right? That I didn't know enough about her. I was in a unique and constricting squeeze of an insane workload that weekend. I didn't get to read about her online.

I just knew how much I loved her from Louis and how, how it captivating and engaging she was. we met at the creative Emmys a couple of months ago. It was in August. And I wanted to run up to her and tell her how much I left her. And she did it first. So fuck her for being more awesome than me. But she's amazing, as you can hear. And it was a joy to sit with her.

And I think she's the fucking best. So there's that and that and that about her and that and that experience. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. Come follow me from me online. Come say what's up. Come send me a letter for the all listener question show. Make yourself known to me. even though I can't write you back personally I read every single email that I get so make yourself known

make your make your thoughts known make your feelings known make yourself known to me you guys are the greatest you are my army and you are fucking brilliant astronomical irresistible and legion I'll touch on the next one late girl on guy is a production of hot machine blowing shit up since 2009