Girl on Guy with Aisha Tyler - girl on guy premium episode x35: melanie lynskey

Episode Date: April 15, 2015

join melanie lynskey of two and half men and hbo's togetherness and aisha as they discuss breaking barriers, escaping confines, transcending limits, managing expectations, and going toe to toe with kate winslet. plus melanie confounds her fans, and finds them confounding in return. girl on guy wants you to know none of this is real.

This episode of Girl on Guy is special bonus content available only to Girl on Guy app users. Hey, everybody, this is a very special episode of Girl on Guy just for my premium subscribers with the delightful and talented actress, Melanie Linsky, who you know from so many things that you don't know how to feel about this woman or this conversation. But I'll tell you what. I knew Melanie because I had met her a couple of times. She was a guest on the daytime show. the talk, and I feel like we'd interacted in a couple of other contexts, but she fucking bold me over with her awesomeness in this conversation, and she will do this for you as well. She's insanely talented. She is lovely. She is so forthcoming. She is so sweet. I was tickled by her. I want to start stalking her. This is as sensational of a conversation as the Amber Tamplin conversation. She is really dazzling. You'll know her from lots and lots and lots of things,

but most probably prominently from her long standing role in two and a half men on the brand new show Togetherness on HBO and in the film's Heavenly Creatures Up in the Air and the Perks of Being a Wallflower among many, many others. But she is a fantastic actress and many factors more than that, a sensational person. You're going to love this conversation. This is a very special episode of Girl and Guy just for my premium subscribers with the brilliant actress, Melanie Linsky, coming at you straight out of the Girl on Guy Bunker. and right into your face.

You have done so many things. Like I, first of all, Melanie Linsky, welcome to my show. Oh, hi. We started. Hey, we're right. It's happening now. I don't know we should have anything. Well, it will feel like we're hanging out the whole time.

Yeah. But I was just saying it was going to say to you and then I wanted to stay on the air actually that. And people know, I really try not to cheat with people like, I just want to have a conversation and like not look at my computer. But you have done so much stuff that I'm like, I was feeling a little inadequate, like memory-wise. I was like, I'm never going to remember everything.

So if I look at my computer, that's what's happening. I just want to make sure that I don't forget anything. Thank you. So sweet. So for people who have never seen you in an interview, they just know you as an actress. Yeah. Like your accent is probably bewildering to people.

It confuses people sometimes when they come up and talk to me. Like in the airport or whatever. People get very confused. Especially if they only, there is some people who only know me from two and a half men. Yeah. Yeah. So they, yeah. Yeah.

And that character's so specific. And even though, you know, she kind of was only like a little bit in each episode, like she was really distinctive. People like really know her. And she always had these big explosive comedic moments. Yeah. And it was, I also was playing a crazy person. So I think people feel free to sort of say whatever they want. Like this one drunk woman came up to me one time in New York.

And she's like, oh my God, Rose. Where's Charlie? And I was like, oh, I'm just an actor. You know, I'm just here at this hotel trying to get up to my room. And she's like, Rose, you are so crazy. What is that voice? What are you doing, Rose? And I was like, my name's Melanie.

Nice to meet you. I'm from New Zealand. She's like, you are funny. Like she just thought you were doing a bit. Like this is a bit that Rose is doing playing Melanie. Yeah. Like, yeah, like this is some, God, that's so mysterious. It is mysterious.

It's mysterious, right? Because you don't want to be shitty. You know, you don't want to be like, hey, dummy, like that's a TV show. But it's bewildering. It hasn't happened very often. I mean, people, there's like this weird disconnect where people sort of feel like they can be a little bit invasive. Yeah. Which I'm sort of, you know, I'm really shy, but I'm nice about it.

But when somebody just doesn't understand that you're playing a character and that's not real life, I wanted to be like, ma'am, how have you gotten through life to this point? I don't understand what's happening. It was so weird. There is. So, it's so drunk or something. But no, I, you know, so that's such interesting thing because that's happened to me a couple of times as well. And I remember this woman coming up to me, ask me about my character on friends and being like, you know, what's Charlie doing now?

And I was like, well, she's winkled out of existence because she's not a person. Do you know what I mean? like I'm like I she's gone like she doesn't exist and it's just poof like that that's that's over and she was like she wasn't like ha ha ha like that I get it but she was like but you know like what what's she up to like she refused and I really thought when I made that joke she's like yeah you're right because I was just like you know making conversation but she was like yeah but you know like you know she she she did she marry I was like first of all I don't I don't even remember the names of all the characters that I interacted with on Friends because it was like a million years ago.

Yeah. But I could tell you. I mean, thank you. Ross. Rachel. The main ones, yeah. No, like I couldn't remember who Greg Kinnear played. You know what I mean? Like, I don't remember the name of his character.

I don't remember everybody that I date. You know, it was like, you know, it was a long time ago. Were you on friends as well? No, I wish. I don't know. I feel like you've done everything. Like that's how I'm like, I'm like, when you're friends. Were you in the mile?

I was excited when you were on friends. Oh, that's nice. Thank you. You weren't friends for a while. I did like 10 episodes. Yeah, it was kind of, and I was only supposed to do three, so that was kind of exciting. Oh my God. When like something like that had, never, those things never happen.

I know, they just keep you around. I'm just waiting. You're always waiting for that call from the producer. It's like, so. Yeah. You're like, I'm already, my stuff's already packed. I'm just, I'm going to take a sandwich tray from crafting them. I'm going.

I never unpack an afraid of or on a job. I'm so afraid of getting fired. Really? Yeah, keep everything in my suitcase for the first week. Until I think we've filmed enough that they can't get rid of me. And then I slowly, like, put some things out at my toothbrush or whatever. Is that superstition or did you get fired off of a movie once? I got fired once.

Really? It was horrible. Oh, no. Tell me. And it really shocked me. It was awful. I did this miniseries in England. Well, I didn't do it.

I auditioned for it a bunch of times. And it was about a girl who was like a singer with her sister in the 1960. And it was a Manchester accent. And we had weeks and weeks of rehearsal because that's how they do it in England. Right, right. Like a play almost, yeah. And singing is really hard for me. I'm so shy.

My favorite thing is karaoke, but I will only sing when everyone else is left. And it's just me and my poor boyfriend. It's like 4 o'clock in the morning. And it's like, great. Now I have to listen to you sing for an hour. So there was a lot of like fears that I had to. works where I learned the accent and at the end of rehearsal they said we're going to ask you to audition again and I was like huh and they were like you know we're just not sure if you have the

confidence that's required and I was like this is not the way to make me have the confidence but I auditioned again and they were like great great sorry we asked you to audition again you're wonderful we're so happy to have you and it was really weird and then we went and started filming and three days in And they just, they just fired me. Oh, my God. And they had brought other girls there the day before and secretly auditioned them. And it just was the weirdest. Nobody was being honest with me.

Right, right. Yeah. That's awful. Yeah, it was horrible. Like, I think almost any of us, like, any actor, especially, like, you'll get in a situation where you're like, God, I don't know if I'm doing my best work. Yeah. Like, we've all been there.

Oh, yeah. I'm always like looking around a corner for somebody who's like, you know, pack my shit for me. You know what I mean? Yeah. But the thing that I hate and I may, it's probably not unique to entertainment, but it feels like it is, is when everybody is telling you to your face that everything's fine. Oh yeah. And then like plotting your demise. That it's just so I feel like it would be fair for someone to say like, God, we love your audition, but we don't feel like this is what you.

Because it could just tell the truth, you know? Because like I said, sometimes you come in a role and you feel like, God, I can have this. snail to have this style. And sometimes you're like, I don't know. I don't know if this is working. Yeah, I would so much rather. I always appreciate it when people are honest. Even when you get that horrible thing, like, oh, they didn't think you were pretty enough. I'm like, great, moving on. Moving the fuck on, right? Yeah, totally. Yeah. Have you heard that from, have you gotten that before? Yes. Are you joking? Of course. I've heard it so many times. That's crazy.

It's been like the recurring theme of my career. Oh, no. But you know, there's like, this is a place. where every, like, beauty queen in the country comes to work, you know, so they have their pick of, like, the most gorgeous. Yeah, but they can't. I mean, it makes me so angry. I don't even know how to, like, express my feelings. But I mean, this is also that, like, that terribly blunt of a business. You're too tall. You're too short. You're too fat. You're too, no, no, whenever it says you're too skinny. No, that's never known. You know, you're too old. And what's interesting, and I wonder, because we were just talking about the idea, like, your inner monologue is always like I'm, like, I'm about to be fired. You know what I mean? Like, you're already saying it to yourself. And I know, the My inner monologue is always after I audition for that. Well, I know I'm too old and I know I'm too tall. And I know, like, I always say those things to myself, I guess, in preparation for hearing them. Yeah, I do that too.

Yeah. I wish I didn't. I'm so surprised that you do that. Oh, totally. Like, I just audition for something and I'm like, there's no fucking way I get, I'm too tall for this. Like, the person I'd be playing against is like half my size. It doesn't matter if I came in and I destroyed. There's just no way I'm going to get it.

There are some pretty tiny little men. There are some pretty tiny dudes. You know, I'm like 5-7 and something. Sometimes people are like, oh, I might be pushing it. Oh, my God. There's some teacup men. Tea cup. Like, the other day I was watching, this is, look, I love Fallout Boy, and I think

their music is great. I love them. They were just done on my show, and I was sitting down watching them, and then when I stood up, I could have literally picked them all up in a puppy basket. Oh, they're so precious. They're precious, and they are uniformly tiny. I'm sorry, guys, I think you're amazing. I think they're amazing, too.

I have a fantasy because Patrick Stump has one of my favorite. rock voices. And I have a fantasy that they'll do a cover's album of Smashing Pumpkin's songs. Oh, and that'd be so great. His voice is really amazing. Yeah, it's so good. Yeah, but it's not like those songs would go. I mean, Billy Corby already did an amazing job. He had a pretty amazing voice. Yeah. I just feel like those songs would go together. Like their styles. At one point it occurred to me and then I was like, this is my dream. This is madness. But it's like the thing I do at karaoke where I like make people sing particular, I hear their voice and I'm like, now you sing this song. Oh wow. You sing Dusty Springfield.

Are you like a karaoke director? Like you get in there and you just orchestrate? Yeah. I love karaoke so much. I'm with you. Does it help if you drink? Do you drink a little bit? Does that kind of take the edge of?

Oh, I try to, but then I just, but then I still don't sing in front of people. And then I'm still just like, I'm just like sloppy at 4 o'clock in the morning with my poor boyfriend. You know, like, I'm not going to sing in front of anyone. That actually might be, I mean, it's so funny because I think anybody listening would be like, oh my God, you're this incredibly accomplished actress. It's so strange that you're so shy. Or that years of having to perform in front of other people wouldn't have mitigated your shyness at all. Yeah, it is kind of strange.

Not bad, just unusual or curious, I guess. My auntie is always like, it's so weird to me that you became an actress because you're so shy. Right. Painfully shy. But I think for some actors, they're sort of outgoing and they're very comfortable performing for people. Right.

And then there were some people like myself where just kind of being in your own skin is hard sometimes. So the opportunity to go into somebody else's is really comforting. Yeah. So as a child, like that's how I discovered acting. It was just a way to not have to be awkwardly standing there. I could just someone hand me a script and I was like, great. And I know exactly what to say. And I can be this other person and I can be funny and I can be everything I wish I could be

my life and then I'd just, you know, get out of rehearsal and be like, sorry, sorry for existing. You know, it's like, weird. Do you find that you feel, do you feel braver when you're in character? I mean, do you, does it ever surprise you, like, how brave you are when you're, yes, and I'm brave at work as well. Like, I can really fight for my instincts in a way that's had for me in life. Like, in life, you know, it's really hard for me to stay. stand up for myself or if someone wants something from me and I don't have the time or the energy or I just don't want, you know, it's very, very hard for me to not do it.

Yeah. And at work if someone's like, then you walk over there and open that car. I'll be like, no, I wouldn't do that. Yeah. Wow. I'm so strong in my instincts with acting and what the character would do. And I can really like get in a discussion about it. Not like a fight because I'm not like an asshole.

Yeah. But it's a weird thing that I can do that in just that one aspect of my life, that's all. It's so interesting also because, like, we were just talking about the fact that this is, like, can be such a soul-crushing business. Yeah. And it can really inhibit you, you know, despite, like, whatever choices you make as an actor and you can kind of be consumed by a character, whenever you're told no, or even if someone gives you this kind of awful, like, these shitty reasons why. Yeah. They're really personal reasons. I mean, you know, it's never like we didn't like your performance.

It's like you are not good enough as a person. Yeah. And I wonder, and I think even for the most kind of confident person, it can be pretty like soul piercing. So I wonder being so shy, like, was there a point in your career where like that, has it gotten, I guess, has it gotten easier to hear that stuff? Or was there a point where it really affected you? Because I did a movie when I was, it came out when I was,

17. It was my first professional job. Heavenly creatures. Heavenly creatures. And I played this sort of like dumpy, weird little character. And I read all the reviews of the movie and they were all like so, they didn't mean to be mean about my appearance. They just were describing the character. Right. And at first I was like, oh my God, all these people sat. And then I was like, well, I'm playing a part. Like that's something you have to get used to. So it kind of very early on I got stripped of having that kind of vanity. I was never celebrated for being beautiful, you know, anything like that. But you want to know, though.

I mean, I feel good about myself in life. I mean, I think you're beautiful. And I think you've been beautiful in so many of your roles, too. But I also, I mean, I don't want to sit here and be like entertainment is the entertainment business is like fixated on beauty because, of course it is. Yeah. But I don't actually think it's any more fixated on beauty than we are cultural. Do you know what I mean?

I think it's a culture where obsessed with beauty. But what's so funny is like this kind of slavish focus on like, this is not even the right phrase, but like traditional beauty. Yeah. It feels so meaningless in the context of art. Do you know what I'm saying? Oh my God, yeah. Like the idea should be that you find the person who's best for the role or makes the most

interesting choices and they embody this character fully and they bring you into the the movie or the show when you watch it. Yeah. Rather than we had to, you know, every time anybody's made a decision based on whether someone was hot, you end up with, you know, Megan Fox and Transformers. I'm sorry, Megan. I'm sorry, Megan. You're very beautiful. You know what I mean?

Like, I don't know how much value. She's also, did you see Jennifer's body? I did. I did. That wasn't my favorite work of hers. I liked her. I liked her in that. She was so funny.

I liked her in this 40. She was great in that. Yeah. But I'm not beating up on her. No, no, no, I know. It just reminded me. Even, like, the way that they used her in the movie was so... Right, it's like a commercial for her body.

But, yeah, like, hey, puppet, stand here and look hot. Yeah, some of those positions, like, she's, like, washing a car or whatever, and her back has to be at, but her arm has to be... I was like, this poor girl, like, how she... A slip disc. Yeah. Seriously. It must be very hard to be in that position. But literally being manipulated.

related by a man, you know. Yeah, kind of a hitchcockian kind of like, hey, actor puppet, like stand like this to make the picture look like that. Yeah. So I don't know. Kind of buried in that question was, or when you were saying about, like, reading these reviews and people describing the character and you realize that you couldn't take those things personally.

Yeah. And I guess, yeah, this is kind of a way to get inured to them, right? Like, I'm just going to, like, inoculate myself with, like, a lot of awful things. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's hard because I never have felt great about myself. I had a lot of eating issues before I started doing this for a job. And it's been a lot of work to try to feel okay about myself.

And it just, for whatever reason is, had to be a part of it that I can't take personally. Right, right. Because also the kinds of jobs where you're getting that sort of feedback are not the ones that are going to break your heart to not get. to not get. Right, right, that's true. Every time I've had my hat broken over not getting something, they haven't been like, if you were hotter, you would have, you know, it's some random thing that you've auditioned for

because it would be good for your career or whatever. And then it's like, well, of course they are not going to, you know. No, that makes perfect sense. Yeah, like anything you care deeply about, that's never going to be the note. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I mean, and also like, you know, that kind of that idea of like,

you know, hotness or whatever is so ephemeral. I mean, I think when you're 22 or 25, it means something different to than, you know, I mean like now I'm in my 40s and I'm like, well, I would rather work until I'm dead. And that means that I need, like I have to find roles that aren't hinging on the fact that my boobs, unrestrained, touch my belt. Do you know what I mean? I don't believe that. They really do.

They're very close, like an inch of my belt. But you know what I mean? It's like, but when you're young, I don't know. I just think you start to realize like that's not meaningful in a long, like long term. Yeah. Okay, well, maybe let's go to the beginning because we were talking a lot about like being a really shy kid. So where were you born? I was born in New Plymouth, New Zealand, where my parents still live.

Is that, Americans don't know anything about New Zealand? No. We don't. They know Lord of the Rings. We Lord of the Rings and Flight of the Concords. And in Fly of the Concord's, a joke, they always make. made was that people thought they were Australian and not New Zealanders, and that's because most Americans do think that.

Yeah. And I'm, even though people have heard New Zealanders and asked that they were British. So we're really very unsophisticated when it comes to New Zealand. A few people have asked me if I was from Boston. I guess because I've said CAF. No, it's like, no. No. That's the extent of the American scope of experiences, these, these new seaboard.

So is what, where is New Plymouth? Is that a big city? No, it's provincial. It's on the west coast. and it's way out on the coast. It's quite isolated. And it's not, it's a small town, but there's a lot of people there. There's a lot of farming and stuff like that.

It's a big region. When you grew up there, were you, like, what did your family do? What did your parents do? My dad is an orthopedic surgeon. Oh, wow. And my mother was a nurse and then she had five children and now she's a real estate agent. Oh, yes. That's a lot of people's second life thing, right?

Mom fits on a suit. Yeah. But now how active is the real estate market in New Plymouth, New Zealand? I mean, it's... It seems pretty active. I don't know. Yeah, I'm always thinking about, like, small... She does a lot of advertising. She has a lot of, like, glamour shots of herself. Oh, fabulous. Yeah. Oh, that's excellent. It's pretty awesome. Yeah. And did you live, so did you live in town, or you were saying there's a lot of farms around there. I mean, did you feel like you had a rural experience? No, because I lived in the town, but some friends of mine lived out on farms and stuff like that. But yeah, I lived in town. But across the street from a huge big park. Oh, nice. Yeah. People, the only thing,

the thing that I think that I know about New Zealand is that's a very, like, green. Like, it's like not very developed. No. I mean, compared to the states anyway. Yeah. There's a lot of it that's still, you know, just nature and beautiful. It's a, the city I grew. It's like, it's a, it's like, it's a, it's a, it's a city I grew up in is really beautiful. The town. The town. I know. I mean, in my head, I'm trying to, like, two blocks, ten blocks, little town?

No, not, it's not that small. I don't know how to describe it. It's so weird. I've never had to describe it before. You can drive through the center of town in about seven minutes. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's, you described it perfectly.

Oh, thank you. You're from San Francisco. Yeah. Yeah. Which, oh, I love it there. It's interesting, like, I always thought about it as being like a small city, you know, like it's only seven miles square. You could run from one end to the other in an hour. You know, as a city, that's pretty, pretty small.

But I always wanted to live in the country when I was growing up, which just goes to show you. Yeah. Grass is greener. When you were, you said that you were shy. Were you always a very shy kid? Because you have four siblings, right? Yeah. Five of you.

So you were kind of surrounded by people. Yeah. Well, I was the oldest. Okay. So I had a lot of, my parents were young when they, you know, and they were. started having kids and, you know, they're kind of interesting, wild people. Really? Yeah.

So I had a lot of responsibility. I was like pretty serious. Because they were wild? You had to be serious? Wild how? Well, my dad is more sensible, but my dad was working a lot when I was a kid. So he, we traveled a lot while he was studying. He was a student when I was born.

Oh, so they were very young, like still in school. They were really young, yeah. And my mother's just like kind of the life of the party. Yeah? I guess. Yeah. And she was so young and she, you know, she was like beautiful and fun and, you know, she would be off and doing stuff.

And yeah. And you feel like you had to kind of like manage things. I'd manage things a lot. Yeah. It's interesting because like when you're a kid, well, I mean, you know, your parents are your whole world. and you don't really see them as human beings. You know, they're like, you know,

when you can have all kinds of different feelings about them and whether they're doing what you need them to do or whatever, but you don't really have a sense of them as people until you get a little older and you're like, okay, this is what was going on with my parents. Oh, my God, so much. Yeah. Was your mom, like, traveling?

Was she away or was she just out? She was just out. She wasn't really traveling. Sometimes she was home, you know, it was like, it was a little bit chaotic, and there were so many children, and there were always people at the house, We were always at someone else's house, like, way past dinner time, way past bedtime,

just like, when are we going to sleep or eat, you know? So it was very, it was a very, like, chaotic fun upbringing. You know, when I turned 37, I realized, like, my mother had five children at this point in life. And the idea of having one child is still very overwhelming to me. and something that I'm like, I'm going to really need to think about. So I just suddenly I was like, man, her whole adult life, she was raising people. Right. She didn't really get to find herself.

Right. So she wasn't a fully formed human being. She started like raising other people. Right. It's really, it's so true what you see. Like it took me a long time to really go, oh, okay. Like this is what was going on. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that was a. time when people were still experiencing these things but didn't have words for them, right? Like now we get it. Like I need, you know, like you said, like she didn't have time to kind of figure who she was. She wasn't fully formed. You know, she wasn't like actualized.

And so she had these kids, but she still felt this need to kind of like be out. She was young. She had all this energy, you know. But then, you know, it's just like you got married. You had kids and like, then you sucked it up. And so if you were having any feelings of feeling constrained or frustrated or sublimated whatever you were going through, there was like, no one really to talk to about it or, you know, yeah, or to figure out, like, how to work through it, you know.

Yeah. And in New Zealand, people going to therapy is kind of a recent, I mean, before, when I was growing up, people went to therapy because there was something very wrong. Right, right. There wasn't really a culture of, like, let me just, like, talk to somebody about this, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I just can't imagine how hard that would have been.

Yeah, yeah, to kind of like be, I don't know who I am and I don't really know how to figure out that out. And also maybe even asking the question in and of itself is like a little bit of an embarrassing thing to be doing. Yeah. Yeah. So you kind of had to be very mature from a very young age and take care of your siblings. Yes, and I was very serious and very mature. I started a petition at school to have school uniforms. I was like, this isn't right.

We need school uniforms. Everyone was like, what? What's wrong with you? such a weirdo. You're like, you guys need to lock it up. Yeah. I just wanted boundaries, you know. I just wanted rules.

Right. Somewhere. Right. So I was like, we can wear anything we want to school. This is ridiculous. I hated it. I tried to like draw up a thing where people would have chores in the house and stuff. And my parents were like, nice try.

Oh, no. I was like, we should have an allowance. It was, yeah. It was no one else in your life. It was like everybody else in your family just kind of like freewheeling and you were the one that was like trying to like, Yeah, everyone was just like, well, and they still are. It's my best friend came home with me a couple of years ago for Christmas and she likes a routine.

She's a very structured person and she has a stepdaughter and she's great with her and she really like. And she was losing her mind at my house because people start talking about what to have for dinner like seven. Nobody's making a decision. Nobody wants to go anywhere or do anything. no one wants to upset anyone else. Someone gets in a fight with someone. They walk out. You're trying to find them.

It's like such chaos. And eventually it's like 11 p.m. And everyone just eats a piece of toast. My friend was like, this is not okay. You people live like animals. She just was like, how can you? But it's just what we're all used to. Right.

And that pattern is something you're accustomed to. So everybody was kind of comfortable and like, okay, this is how it always goes down. And we all know we're going to. have buttered toast for dinner. Yeah, everyone's just like, all right, that's just what happens. Did you have to surrender to that at some point? Did you just throw up your hands?

I mean, like... I mean, there are some ways in which that's very much in me. Like, I have no sense of time management or how long. Because it was always a sort of like ephemeral thing of like, you know, I was late to school almost every day. It was just never a big deal. People like wouldn't show up when they were supposed to show up and you just sort of didn't bring it up. It was like, oh, all right, well. Right. So there's parts of me that can be a real

flake because it's just, I just never learned. And I've been trying, I feel so old to be learning these lessons, but I'm like, no, I need to leave myself more time to get there than it literally tells me on ways. Right. Right. Right. It's 17 minutes. So I guess if I give myself 16 minutes, it's going to be. No, you know what, though? I think it's actually, I actually think that like kind of right around now is when you do start to figure stuff out. I guess.

I always thought I was like, oh, and I'm going to get it together now. But I kind of feel like a lot of your life is just about when you're in your 20s and 30s is just about like, especially with work. Like I just got to work and work and work and I got to build something, you know. And you're not really looking at yourself that closely because you can't, right? Because that energy is all going out, like, you know. Oh, that's such a good point. Yeah.

And then you get to a point where you're looking at. kind of ready. I mean, people always talk about a big midlife crisis, but I think what it really is is like, people finally look at themselves. Yeah. And go like, okay, like, I've been busting myself until this point to get here. And like, now I'm kind of here and like, what, who am I going to be for the rest of my life? And I've never really had the time or the luxury to kind of look at myself critically. And then sometimes people freak out and get a convertible or, you know, a mistress or a tattoo or, you know, all of the above. All of those things. Yeah. Start smoking. You know, whatever it is. But the interesting thing is like, oh, this is like this opportunity to like figure out my shit, you know, and like do things differently.

Well, that makes me feel bitter. Yeah, and be open to doing things differently in a way that you weren't before. Do you know what I mean? Because you're not that open when you're young. You think you know everything. It's kind of this inverse graph where you start to realize you don't know anything like the older. I know less and less shit, the older I get. Yeah, God.

It can be so depressing. It is. It is. It's terrifying. It's terrifying. Like, why am I not smarter? I know. I'm not supposed to have learned that lesson by now?

When you were a kid, and circulating petitions, making butter toasts for dinner. Yeah, like, what was that like for you in school? Was your, because it sounds like you're in a relatively small town, so probably everybody do everybody. Yeah, I mean, we moved back to that town when I was like seven, I guess,

and then we were there for my whole life. But before that, I went to five different. schools. So I was the new kid five times over and it really like got ingrained in me. Like still now at work, you know, when you go get your lunch and then everyone's like sitting,

I can't. I never have been able to. I so can't. Oh, really? No, yeah. I, I, what I realize probably is people think I'm unfriendly. I'm not, I'm super friendly, but like I just go back into my room and eat in my room because I don't know who to sit with and I always think I'm like interfering. or interloping. Yeah, totally.

I never do. This is amazing me. I feel like if I were you, I'd just walk around, like, who wants to sit with me? I never felt that way. No. My other inner monologue is everybody's being nice to me, but they all hate me. Like, I always think that. They're just being nice until I go away so they can go, oh, thank God that's over.

That is amazing. That is amazing. But, you know, I mean, you were probably similar in that I, I didn't move around as much as you, but I was like at a new school every couple of years, but I was really odd kid. I was the only black kid. I was super tall. My parents were hippies. So I felt like an outsider. Those feelings never leave you. They never go.

It's true. Yeah. And no matter who you are as an adult, you always feel like, oh, that kid that was the weird, gawky kid that nobody talked to, you know? So yeah, it sticks with you your whole life. It really does. Gosh, no matter how beautiful and peaceful and amazing you are. Speaking of yourself.

Seriously. That's nice. When you, so you finally landed, I guess my question was if the people, around you, all the people that knew your family, like, I don't know, like, was your family like the fun house? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Like the one of the other. And my mother was like all my friends' favorite. Yeah. It's like super easygoing. Yeah. They'd come over and like tell all their secrets and, you know. She was like young mom. Yeah.

Did she drink? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, that's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun to come visit. You get to go, fun when you leave.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. That's also infuriating because, yeah, like you have this sense of your parent as being like a pain in your ass. Yeah. And everybody else just adores them. And you're just like, ugh. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Your mom's so rad. Yeah. Oh, my God. She's the greatest. She's the most understanding. I could tell her anything. And I was like, all right.

Could you tell her anything? Did you have the. No. No? No. Sometimes it would be fine and then sometimes I would get in trouble. It was very unpredictable. So at a certain point I was like, oh, don't tell her anything because you never know what you're going to get.

She's just an emotional person, I think. And she just kind of like, you know, she has one reaction, she'll have a different reaction and, you know. But she really was a great resource for my friends. I think not being her child, she didn't have the same kind of panic. And she was very understanding. She was like really, really great. Yeah, it's easy to be neutral. It's easy, you know, when it's not your kid.

Yeah, you can be like, you can look at, you know, things kind of more clearly because, you know, yeah. I just tell you this exact same thing you did as this other kid and the other kid gets great advice and you get punished. Yeah, exactly. So I was like, oh, all right. Yeah, she's wonderful. She's the best. I mean, she is wonderful. And there were times her she was so understanding and so great with me.

You know, parents are human. It's like the most freeing realization when you. you're just like, oh, that's a person. That's not like a magical being who failed at perfection. Yeah. You know, yeah, they're just like a person, you know. I remember I did a movie when I was like 21 in Atlanta, and my dad had a conference there or something.

He was visiting for some reason. My dad had always seemed like the most capable, you know, I was always a little intimidated by how well he kind of navigated everything. Yeah. And then we were in Atlanta, and I remember we went on like the metro or whatever and he had no idea. He had his little card and he was holding it.

He looked like a little old man all of a sudden. He was just holding it like sort of tapping it on things. Like he didn't. And I was like, dude, like swipe it. And he was like, oh. And I just had never seen him. And it was the first time I was like, oh, he's just this person who hasn't really left this little town in New Zealand.

And like I'm going to have to show him how to use the. tune style. Yeah. No, such a crazy moment for me. Yeah. Yeah. It's sweet. It's sweet.

It's, it's mystifying, you know, because, like, again, you've just gone to these people for everything for such a long time. Yeah. And, yeah, like, I got my mom. It just made me think I got my mom an iPhone and, like, we, then we, like, took it over and left it on the table for her. And she said, she calls it several hours days. She's like, well, I've just been shaking this thing and banging it on surfaces, so I can't.

I don't know how to activate it. She's, I feel like an alien, and I've come to Earth, and you've handed me a piece of, like, you know, technology. And I'm just like, I'm licking it and I'm breathing. Like, what? How does it work? Oh, my God. It was so, it was, I mean, luckily she had a sense of humor about it.

Yeah. It was just, they've been living on the planet longer than you have. Like, you've been here this whole time. Yeah. Like, you know. But, yeah, you know, you're right. They kind of. It was hilarious.

And I had to come over and show how to do it. And now she's discovered emoji. Oh, God. The number of emoji. Oh, my God. Sometimes I look over my boyfriend is texting, and his mother has just sent him like full. Like, I was like, what does this mean?

What is the sentence that she's constructed purely out of emojis? He was like, well, you know, I miss you. I can't, you know, whatever she's saying. It's amazing. And my mother is like obsessed on Facebook. She does the sunglasses face after everything she. And then you're like, I don't know that you, first of all, I don't know that it's,

universally appropriate in every context, right? And I also don't know if you know what it means. My father loves sunglasses, sunglasses, face. He's sunglasses, palm trees. And then the big looking eyes, right? The googly eyes. It's like, he's spooking me out. Old people. It's almost like you don't wish you'd given them technology, right? Because they're like running wild with it. Like they have their pants off and they're just like flinging emoji everywhere they go. Here's how I feel. These symbols. All of these feelings that one time. When did you discover acting? Oh, when I was like five, I auditioned for a school play.

I was like, oh, that sounds interesting. And then I just loved it. Right away? Yeah, I felt so free. I was like, this is it, this is the feeling. How amazing at such a young age. Oh, my God. And did you always know from that point on that you wanted to do it for a living?

Yeah, but it was crazy. Nobody, there's like one girl ever from my town who, became an actor. And I would use her as the example. I was like, Katie Wolf. Katie Wolf did it. And everyone was like, well, Katie Wolf was very lucky, wasn't she? Not everyone's Katie Wolf.

And I was like, yeah, but. And, you know, I was, when I did Heavenly Creatures, I was at the age where people were like, you were going to have to start thinking about what you want to do for a living. But you were a kid. You were 17. Yeah, but I was about to go to. Right.

I was 15 when I did the movie. I was like two years away from college and everything. Right. I was like, well, I want to go to drama school. And everyone was like, that doesn't make any sense. Really? Everybody was like, that's not a real thing. Yeah, it's not a real job. Are there drama schools in New Zealand?

Yeah, there's a great drama school. There's a couple of great drama schools, yeah. Is New Zealand? And I apologize in advance because I'm doing something I just met other people for doing. But I know there's this thing in Australia, this like tall poppy thing. Oh, yes. Which for people out there who are listening, it's like the idea. that like in Australian culture like no one should be higher than the rest of the culture.

So like even if you're at the tall poppy, they'll cut you down. Is it like that in New Zealand as well? It is like that. But people are very defensive about it. I actually just got in trouble because I didn't interview in New Zealand and they asked me if I'd had any sort of, you know, experiences of, and I told a story. And then people got really upset with me. Really?

Yeah, they were like, that's not how the culture responds to people anymore. and stop perpetuating that stereotype. And I was like, the dude asked me. And also this was my experience. Like, I'm not perpetuating anything. I'm just telling you what happened to me. And I've had, like, a lot of, like, lovely positivity. I feel very supported by people in New Zealand.

But it is true that sometimes people have a very hard time dealing with it. And they have an expectation of how you're going to behave, that they feel like they have to, like, cut down before you get a chance to. Right, right. Like, they think you're going to act fancy? Yeah, they think you're going to act. Their deepest fear is that you're going to act fancy. The story that I told was I bought fish and chips for my family,

so there was like a lot, you know, it was kind of expensive. I paid for it with a credit card. And the guy in the fish and chip shop was just sort of, you know, standing there. And then he just gave me the fish and chips. And I said, do you need me to sign anything? And he was like, oh, we don't want your autograph. Who do you think you are?

and I was like, oh no, I'm not typically asking if anyone wants an autograph before I leave the fish and chip shop. Like, do you need me to sign the credit card thing? And he's like, oh, yeah, I do actually. And he'd just forgotten because he was so consumed with his own, like, fear that I was going to act fancy. Right, right. And it was so intense. I was like, really? Like his energy was really, like, dismissive and, yeah.

Yeah. But then people were upset about me telling that story, and they were like, It sounds to me like that guy was joking. Oh. I was like, all right, guys. And by the way, like, it could just be, this could have been my experience, everybody. Do you know what I mean? Like, it doesn't have to be that, like, I was saying everybody in New Zealand is this way.

Right. That's the thing. People feel like, I think that happens with any group of people. Any group. You tell one sort of not great story. And everyone's like, well, you can't say that we're like, I'm like, I'm not. You're airing our dirty laundry or whatever. It feels like, yeah, yeah.

I mean. People are supportive. quarter than people are wonderful, you know. I think it's also really hard not to feel, like, and I'm sure there are people who act a variety of ways in this business, of course, but I think it's also hard on our side not to feel self-conscious. Like, I feel very self-conscious about that a lot of the time, you know, like if you go home and everyone's like, ooh, look at you. And like, no, no, don't look at me.

I don't, I'm just, I just want to get a cup of coffee. I'm not, I just want to be the same person I was the last time I was here. You know what I mean? Like, you just want to get fish and chips for your family. Right. This is not a demonstration of anything. Yeah, not, you know, like. And the nice thing about New Zealand is nobody, you know,

they're not throwing a parade when you come back. Everyone's very low key. You know, you don't have to deal with a lot of that kind of energy, which I really appreciate. You, how did you get heavenly creatures? Because it was such this kind of, I remember when the movie came out, and it was such a big deal. And obviously it would kind of change your life as an actor.

It totally completely changed my life. They had a few sort of professional actresses that they, not sort of, definitely professional actresses. On a shortlist in Peter Jackson, who directed the movie, just had a feeling, he just had a weird feeling. And he said to his now wife, Fran, just like go around high schools, just put people on tape. Wow.

And they came to my high school and we just did this like improvised audition. And I'd been doing improv. I did this like dramatic acting class that was pretty much all improv. And I did theater sports and it was just what I knew. So it was kind of perfect. And then they flew me to meet him and I did like a proper audition before which he showed me Kate Winslet's audition tape and said this is how good you have to be. And I was like, oh my God.

Oh, shit. But you know what, though? Like, well, first of all, oh, shit. I get, and I would never, I don't know that I would ever do that if I was directing a film. Yeah. But the interesting thing about it is that you know what you're up against. I mean, someone might see it as an opportunity. Like, look, let me just show you what's about, like, what's happening.

Let me give you, yeah, let me give you what we're doing. them giving you insight information almost. Yeah. If you're like mentally prepared to take it, but you know what I mean? Yeah. I appreciated it, honestly. I mean, I was very, very, very intimidated because it's gay Wednesday. I mean, at the time it was her first movie, but she'd done like television for, you know, almost a decade or whatever in England. And she was really, she was a really great actress. And she knew what she was doing. She looked amazing. And I had known had ever filmed me before, you know, I just, I was very, very intimidating.

But I also was kind of like, okay. And the part of me was like, well, if I, if somehow I fail in this audition and I don't get this part, I feel kind of better because that's really tough. You know? Yeah. It's not like he showed me something. And I was like, no, I think I've got it. And then I, you know, if I didn't get the part, I'd be like, shit.

Right, right. But it was, it was freeing in a way. I was like, oh, let me try. Let me see what I can do. Take a run at it. Yeah. Because, I mean, that tape was crazy. It's incredible. Crazy.

But you got the role. I mean, did you find out right away? I found out a few days later. And you were still in high school? Yeah, I was still in high school. It was crazy. And did you shoot it in Auckland? Where did you shoot?

We shot it in Christchurch, which was way far away from where I lived. And I didn't have to have a, guardian there or anything like that. I didn't do school for three months. Maybe it's different now. They might have like rules in place, but I just like took off. It was really fun. I was living in an apartment by myself. Wow. Yeah, I was 15. Now for someone who has said that you were like kind of intensely shy. Yeah. And also really craving structure. Yeah. You like ran away from school and everybody you knew and you lived alone in an apartment and you were making your first movie

and you were 15 years old. Yeah. Was all of that delightful? It was incredible. And talking about like the nating structure aspect of it, you get a call sheet every day with the list of all the scenes

that you're going to do, you learn your lines the night before. Someone comes to pick you up. Someone comes to pick you up. They tell you what time they're going to be there. They're there at that time. That to me was like, oh, God. Oh, you will.

Oh, exciting. Yeah. I was like waiting outside. Like, I don't know, probably going to have to walk. Oh, there, here, yeah. Every single day, in fact, they were there. Meals are on time. Yeah.

Exactly. It's like, here's lunchtime. And, oh, oh, someone's, like, made lunch. And it was like a real, I, God, I was so happy. That's incredible. And it becomes, like, your family, you know, especially when you're away from home. It's something that's so intense. And I just, I was like, this is the greatest thing that's ever happened to me.

That's so amazing. Yeah, it was amazing. And then you had to go back to high school. Yeah. I just had to go back to high school. What was it? Well, you missed three months. Like catch up.

When the movie came out, it was like a big festival kind of darling. And how did you then leave again to be like a part of all of that? I did for some of it. I, like I went to Venice to the Venice Film Festival. It was so intense. Was it like, again, was it delightful or? Was it, like, terrifying? It was so fun, but I didn't know, I had no idea how to conduct myself.

Like, my parents were really sweet. They bought me, like, a couple of dresses, but I wore them with converse because I was like, I don't want to, like, look too fancy, you know. I had this, like, denim jacket on. You were probably adorable. Yeah, I mean, because you're... I know. If anyone has photos, it's like...

But Kate had, like, borrowed clothes and, like, Kate got a publicist, and she was, like, doing the thing, and she was, like, this is my moment. And I was like, oh, oh, good for you. You know, like, go fly. It was so overwhelming to me. And I met like my heroes. I met Quentin Tarantino. I met David Lynch.

I didn't know how to, I couldn't process it. Yeah. Like I literally was at high school in New Zealand geeking out about these people watching Blue Velvet over and over and over again. And then I'm, you know, supposed to have a normal conversation with David Lynch. I just, it was too, it was too much, honestly.

It was too exciting. Do you remember what you said to David Lynch? I just said thank you over and over. Just like a mantra. He was trying to talk to me. I was just like, thank you. Thank you. Well, I really like your movie.

Thank you. I don't know that any teenager is equipped for that kind of an experience. I mean, I don't feel equipped for it now most of the time. Neither do I. Like if someone was like, oh, you're going to go to the Venice Film Festival. I'd be like, how? How?

How? How will this work? Somebody tell me. Okay. But just, you know, it was really, really intense. It was so exciting. Do you, between having the creatures and, like, I guess, I mean, because you've worked so much to an outsider, like,

to someone who's not male, It seems like you've worked pretty much continuously since your first film. That's nice. I mean, that's what it looks like to me when I look at the internet. So I guess my question is, like, what happened next after Heavenly Creatures? I finished high school. I went to university for a year. And I got an agent over here when Heavenly Creatures was released, and she kept saying,

you should come and do auditions. And I was like, that seems very presumptuous. Like you should come to Hollywood? Yeah. I was like, oh, I'm sure people are going to, you know, be very excited to see me. You know, I just thought she was crazy. And then she was like, why don't you start making tapes, putting yourself on tape and sending them to me, you know, for auditioning for stuff? And I didn't know what she meant.

And I was too scared to ask. like I'm supposed to know. So she sent me the script for the craft. And she was like, just put yourself on tape. So I only have my little brother. I didn't know how to do it. So we got like my dad's video camera. I put a light directly under my face.

So there would be light on my face. It makes sense when you describe it that way. Yeah, I was like, well, I need to be, they need to see my face. So, you know, like when you're holding a torch. under your face and telling a spooky story. It looked like that. And my brother was like reading, but he was so terrible. He was a child.

Right, right. He sounded like a child reading the lines. So I was like, my executive decision was actually, don't read the lines. I'll just leave a space where the lines are supposed to be. And, you know, but you just sit there and like make sure the camera's okay. So I sent off this tape with this light directly under my chin. And just like nobody reading opposite me, just like a space. Oh, God.

And she called me and she was like, okay, I probably should have told you how to do that. At least she was kind about it. She was really nice. She laughed. When she got me on the phone, she was still laughing. She had just seen it. She was still laughing. I was like, okay, I didn't know.

She really thought it was funny. It's pretty funny. It's pretty funny. It was pretty funny. I mean, at the time. Oh, my God. And how could you know? I mean, the thing, all the things that we take for granted and that we're so casual about every day.

Of course they're mysterious, you know. So mysterious. Yeah. Yeah. And you're so far away. Yeah. And I did, you know, I just had no concept. Yeah.

But then the next year I went to university and there was a casting director in the town. And so she started to put me on tape for things when I had to go on to me. I'd bring them a bottle of wine and they would, you would, you know, do the thing. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. And they made a tape for the Crucible, a movie version of the Crucible, and then they wanted me to come, like, test with Daniel Day Lewis. And that was my first sort of real audition experience in America.

Yeah. And that was when it sort of, like, gave me enough confidence to be like, okay, I feel like, I let me in a room with this person. Yeah. So then I started to come over and audition a little bit, and then I got this movie called Ever After. and then I kind of started working. I mean, it was on and off for a while.

Did you make a decision at some point, like around that, okay, and I'm moving, I'm leaving New Zealand, and I'm coming to the United States? No, I was going back and forth. Oh, wow. People were just flying like in the old days. Right, you know. It wasn't this whole local hire business.

Yeah, and they'd fly you to wherever the location was and flying me back to New Zealand and, yeah, it was great. God, that's so interesting. one thing I was remarking on earlier was how if someone has seen you work and not just two and a half men but like so much of the stuff you've done so much of your comedic work

and I'm an asshole because I can't remember the name of this movie but the one that you did I love so much where you played the one you were having the affair with the young guy Oh hello and I must be telling you saw that? Yeah I love that movie so much yeah I loved it I loved it you're so funny in that movie and it's so hard to be it's so hard to be so funny. And I'm going to use this word,

but it's not in the kind of vernacular. So pathetic. I don't mean like, I mean, she was pathetic, but like pathos. Like you just really felt for this person. She was just like a mess and then aggressive too and like needy and like I just loved that movie. And I guess my bigger question is if people have watched you in all these things,

they wouldn't know that you were in New Zealander. And I think you typically don't work in your own accent. No, I've only done it a couple of times. Why? Is it just that the work is all here? Yeah, the work is all here. I mean, I've gone home a couple of times and made movies. There's a whole such a boring thing to go into, so I won't,

but New Zealand actors don't have a union and they should. So there are some SAG restrictions. So you can't work over there because it'll affect your union status here? If you work over there, it has to be on a, production that SAG has like approved. I can't go over there and be like a New Zealand actor working on a production. It's a whole thing with SAG.

I don't realize their reach was so serpentine. And they should have a union. I mean, they should protect the actors over there, but yeah. It's not fair. They don't get residuals or anything like that. Right, right. All those people in like Lord of the Rings who could, you know. Feed their families.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly these billion-dollar movies. Yeah. Yeah, or not have to have like a normal job as well, you know. Yeah, that makes sense. It will be good. But anyway, that's the whole political thing. And so that's why your work has mainly been here.

Yeah, and I live here now, and it just sort of has been how it happens, that one job sort of like begets another job. Mm-hmm. Yeah. When you came here and you, like, what was the thing that brought you here, like, permanently? A breakup. Oh, really? I was living in London, yeah.

I was living with someone in London and we broke up. We did a movie together and I just moved to England with him. I was at a stage in my life where I was just sort of like living with people. I was very sort of like, hey, whatever, you know. And I was like, where do you live? You live in London? Cool, I'll move in with you. So I lived with this wonderful sweet man for two years.

We had a sad breakup. And then I was like, I don't want to live in London anymore. I guess I'll go to Los Angeles because I was working in America sometimes. So then I just moved. And it wasn't, other than that, it wasn't driven by like, I'm moving there to work on this. I was like, I work there sometimes.

I'm getting work there. I'll just go there. Yeah. I don't know why I wonder this about expatriation. Because I've never expatriated. I wonder how that feels like to decide that you're going to live in a country that's not your own. It's so weird. It's a really weird feeling. But I think because New Zealand is so far away, it doesn't feel as far away anymore because of the internet now, I guess. But when I first moved, there was a sort of sense of like when you leave, you have to go for a while because it's like such a big journey. So there's just something I was emotionally prepared. And I also wasn't like this is going to be the rest of.

of my life. I thought, you know, maybe I'll spend a couple of years here. And then at a certain point, I was like, I'm going to try to get my green card so I can work here more easily. And then I just stayed. Where in your acting life did, like, and all of those things happening, did two and half men come along, even though it's like, you know, you've done so many other things in that, but I think it's something that people know you the best from. Yeah, I guess so, yeah. I, well, I had just got in my green card. So I was able to go out for a pilot season. Because, you know, the turnaround of being cast and then shooting it is so fast.

Right. There was never time to get the visas that you needed and all that stuff. Oh, yeah. And that whole process is so mysterious. I don't even understand how it works. Sometimes I have friends that know, they're like, can you write me a visa letter? I'm like, oh, tell me what's sake. I don't know how it works.

And I'm like, here's a letter. What's going to happen? I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, how do you not know? But it's very, like, letters and you've got to prove. that you've got to have this much work you've already done, and it's so confusing. The whole green card thing,

I had to ask favors of people, which was my least favorite thing. And, you know, ask the same as your friends, you know, asking for the letters. And, oh, God, it was horrible. But I got my green card that said I was an alien of extraordinary ability.

It's the funniest thing I've ever been called. And so then I could go out for pilots, and I read that script for two and a half men, and it was just a recurring, it wasn't a regular character. So it seemed kind of perfect, because then if I got another pilot that was a regular, I could do that.

And I was like, I kind of want to see what it's like to do with a sitcom. Right. You'd never done anything like that before? No. Like an American sitcom with a laugh track and an audience and all that stuff. I was like, oh, what a weird thing. So I did the pilot, and it was super weird. And I was like, oh, I'm really doing a sitcom.

Weird. Like the context, the acting context was weird or the experience with the actors was weird? Oh, no, no, no. Everyone was like nice and great. And it was fun. And I really loved everybody. And the character was funny. Yeah.

It's just so foreign. Like, we don't have our own sort of like multi-camera sitcoms really in New Zealand. There have been a few. But it's such an American thing. So I felt like I was stepping into another world. Right. very alternate universe. Yeah.

I mean, there's something about it that must have felt familiar because in a lot of ways it's like a play, right? I mean, you come out and you're shooting chronologically, you know, the story in order and the audience is there watching you and you kind of hit your marks and everything. But then, and everything's turned outward, you know, kind of outward towards the audience a little bit. But then the mechanics of the comedy are very specific with four camera. Like you can't do the comedy you do in a four camera show in any other context without it

seeming broad and weird and crazy. Yeah. It was such a different technique to learn. And the rhythm, you know, every writer has like a different rhythm and they want it to be exactly as they've written it. And you're like, oh, you know, it feels, it's such an interesting thing. And when the show became, well, the show got picked up first of all and they asked me to be a regular. And I was like, I'm not doing anything else, sure. and I did it for two years.

I was a regular for two years. And that aspect of it, where the audience comes in and they know exactly what they're going to see, and it's very comforting, and they respond. Almost before you said anything, yeah. And it was really fun to be a part of that. But at the same time, after two years, I was like, oh, I'm going to be doing the same thing because that's what my job is. Right, right.

It's really fun. I'm grateful that I'm playing a crazy person that gets mixed up sometimes because... Right. But I just sort of saw my future. I was like, the show is going to be on forever. And I'm just going to be like the wacky neighbor.

Right, right. And so I was so lucky. I had a conversation with Chuck Lorry and he did not want to let me out of my contract because the show was working pretty great as it was. Right, right. And you didn't want to fuck with it.

And you were great at what you do And yeah. He was just like, I like the system. Everything's, you know, it's going pretty good for me. And I really had to like sell him and I said, I don't think I'm going to do a good job for you. There have been some episodes where I've been depressed. Right.

Because I've been like going through the motions and I don't feel like a good actor. I don't feel interested. And, you know, it's just not working for me. Right, right. And so he let me go. It's incredible. And he did this new thing where I was allowed to come back as a recurring character. So if I was free, like if I wasn't doing something else, they'd be like, we have an episode for three weeks from now.

I said, great. And for the next 10 years, that's how we did it. It's so amazing because it's, you know, it is a business where it's very hard to get work. And I'm saying this because I did leave a show when it was working. and I remember like thinking the same thing, you know, I love everybody here, but if I do this for the next 10 years, this will be the last thing I'll ever do. Yeah. And it was that. Ghost Whisperer.

Oh. And, you know, it was very amicable parting. I just said I have these other dreams and I have an opportunity to pursue them and I will kill myself if I don't do it. But I do remember after I made the decision, drinking and crying for like a week. Yeah. Because I just said, what actor quits a hit show? it's working. Yeah.

Like, it was just, you know, it was just, like, I just remember feeling crazy, even though I knew it was the right decision. And I wonder if there was a party that was afraid when you did that. Well, my agent and my manager were telling me that I was insane. Right. Yes. Oh. Especially because I left just before the third season began, which is when everyone renegotiates

to make, like, crazy money. Before that, the salary I was making was, you know, you've never even done a pilot before money. Right, right. I think they were kind of like, this is your chance. chance to really, you know, and even Chuck was like, you know, I'm sorry, I'm trying to trying to make you a millionaire. And there was a part of me that was like, oh my God, because it would be so nice to be comfortable. I'd never known that feeling. And I still, I mean, that's not true. I'm, I feel so fortunate. I've always been able to make a living. But I've never had like vacation

money, you know, like crazy. Yeah, crazy money. Fuck you money. Yeah. So there was a part of me that was like, oh God, it would be. so easy and so comfortable. But I don't, I don't need to be rich. I don't know. I felt the same as you. I was like, if I don't investigate what else I can do, I was also like 25 years old at the time or something, 26.

And I was just like, this is like valuable time. I want to build a career. I want to do stuff. I want to do independent movies. And I ended up leaving the agent I was with because, You know, I did a big thing and I left the show and I gave up all that money. Oh, yeah. But I still had it as a recurring thing that I could come back to.

So I was paying my mortgage. It was great. But then just every year, a pilot season, they just would send me like a ton of shitty scripts. And I was like, I left a show like 10 times better than this one so that I could be free. Right. So, yeah, I got a new agent and changed. Someone who kind of understood what you wanted to do. She's made about five cents from me.

She's happy Because you guys are on the same page Yeah exactly You said earlier that you had And we don't Let me know if you feel uncomfortable talking about this But that you felt like Not just that you were shy

But that you really had like Self-imidged issues when you were younger And that And you struggled with like eating Yes Do you do we Was it like a full on like eating disorder Or was it just something that you struggled with?

Oh, no, it was like a eating disorder full on. Like, I was very, very, very controlled about what I ate. And if I ate anything else, I would throw up. So it's so, I mean, I'm so far away from it now that it's such an insane thing to think about. But for, I guess about 12 years from like the age of like 12. I really had a lot of issues with it. Was it something that came about, like, I mean, there's a million reasons why people are eating disordered.

And then obviously this is a culture and especially a business where it would be really easy to develop a disability in disorder. I mean, even somebody who's not that prone to being disordered, could get disorder pretty quickly. The whole town's disordered in some way. She's fasting and, you know, I mean, this is a bunch of really disordered shit. I'm only eating these foods or, you know, whatever, binging on kale. I mean, whatever. People eat like crazy people here.

But sometimes there's a trigger. Was there a moment? Was there like something that happened in your life at that time that made you start to be more controlling about the way you ate? Or was it about trying to just create control in your life? I think that was probably part of it. And then also there were people around me who were very concerned with being thin and body image.

And I grew up with that kind of model that that was very important. and then I think, you know, when I turned 12, I started going through puberty and I just was horrified. Really? I was like, I already feel like I'm too fat. Oh. And now this shit has happened in? Like, are you joking? Because I'm like a coovy poof.

Like as soon as it hit, it was like, you're going to have an ass. You're going to have hips. Here it comes. You're going to have boobs. Right. And I was like, oh, no, no, no. This is crazy. Yeah.

And I was in a full-on panic about it. And I read this article. It was like bulimia, like the secret shame or whatever. And I was like, oh, this sounds great. Not their intention at all. No, no. It was like warning young girls away from, you know, the dangers of. And I just was like, oh, this is going to solve all my problems.

Yeah. And so it was just how I lived for a really long time. And into your acting career as well. Yeah. Until I was like 24. Did it make it, did you, were you aware of coming into a business that was so weight conscious, like, oh, did it make it harder? Or were you like, I've got the solution for this? Well, the weird thing is, and I think a lot of people who are eating disorder would say the same thing.

I never, you know, for most of that time, I was like 120 pounds, which is not a comfortable weight for me. Tiny. That is not what I weigh right now. For sure. Tiny. Tiny. and you just would never I was so

self-conscious about my body there was still all I could see were like the little bits that weren't exactly perfect and so I would compare myself to these other women you know models and gorgeous women and I would be like I'm not

there I'm not there right right and I remember one time I put this dress on I was with a guy friend of mine and I put this dress on and I was like oh my God like these fat bit and he was like, those are your hip bones. And I was like, oh, well, I could see with like blumps staring out. Right, right.

And then I was desperately excited because I was like, oh, awesome. Hip bones. Hip bones are sticking out of this dress. Every girl's dream. Like, it's so crazy to me now. It is. I mean, but the thing is, like, I'm laughing because I know, like, I've had that conversation with myself a million times.

Yeah. And, and the, and also, like, looking back. and thinking like, oh my God, I was in such great shape then, and I didn't see it at all. Like, I wasn't aware of it in any way. No, no clue. I mean, I remember I did this movie where I had to be, there's a scene where I, like, have sex with somebody, and then I'm sitting there, and I'm supposed to just be sitting there in my bra, and I was so self-conscious about my stomach that I, like, held a thing over my stomach the whole time.

And now I see that movie, and I'm like, you poor little thing. Like, you were so skinny. Right. Like, so worried that there were being. like a tiny fold. Right. I know. I know.

I mean, I know. And it's, and also, I mean, as an actor, like, the frustrating thing is you think I wasn't really being fully present in the scene because I was outside of it looking at my body, thinking about how it's going to look on camera and not just being what the character would have been doing. Yeah. And thinking that everyone around me would be like, oh my God, look at that. Like, look at that fatty.

Just so, I just had no concept of what my body looked like. I still don't really. I still have a very strange... I don't know that we ever completely get a... You know, you just try to like relax a little bit. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Should I like take it easy on yourself a little bit? What happened to break that cycle for you, though? I mean, honestly, my boyfriend who I lived with in London... Mm-hmm. I... It wasn't something I could hide if I was living with somebody. Right. And he was so upset.

He was so horrified. And he was just like, what a violent thing to do to yourself. Like, that breaks my heart that you've been doing this to yourself. And nobody had really treated it with. I hadn't shared it with very many people. And the people that I had shared it with had not been, they had their own issues. I was choosing bad people to share it.

You know, I wanted to feel good. You wanted validation. Yeah. I wanted to, you know. And it was the first time someone had been so kind and loving. And then he just, like, he cooked for me and he didn't let me look at what was in it. And then I wasn't allowed to go to the bathroom afterwards. It sounds like I was in a culture, like, being controlled or something.

But it just kind of, like, took me out of the habit. And I would be in a panic. Like, I would be like, I know there was butter in that. Right, right. Just, like, flipping out. And he would be like, just. deal with it. Yeah.

God, but that's, I mean, that's amazing, by the way. Oh, really. Because that's also like a just, like a really, like an intense gesture of love, right? I'm just going to cook for you something delicious and then you're going to eat it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just, you know, just sit there and just like.

And I started to put on weight because I wasn't eating, you know, 800 calories a day or whatever I previously had been eating. And it was fine. Mm-hmm. And I was like, oh. And then I would have moments where I'd freak out again. And after we broke up, I had like a major relapse with it. And then I just, once I felt the freedom from it, I was like, I am not. Yeah.

Because what's so interesting about that is if that's like occupying like such a massive part of your mental landscape. So much. Everything you think about all day long. And then you're not doing that. You're like, oh my God. Think about all the other things I could be doing with my energy and time. if I wasn't obsessing over what I was eating. Yeah.

Yeah. And how many times, how many minutes I'd spent in the gym and blah, blah, blah. Oh my God. It's just incredible. Yeah. Or going to being panicked about going to dinner because what am I going to order? You know,

how am I going to get out of there without eating anything bad for me? Instead of just going out with your friends and having a drink and big ass plate of food. I know. And, you know, there were times where I was in, you know, Paris or I was in Italy or somewhere wonderful. And I'd be like, just a salad, please. And I look back on that now and I'm like, you're crazy. That is not okay. But the number, I mean, there's so many people, you know, so many people who've experienced that, you know.

And in all of those ways, you know, like, or avoiding those experiences because they're afraid of what they'll do in that context, you know. So it's like, it's crazy, but it's not unusual. Do you know what I mean? And I'm gone to the other way where if I go someplace like a restaurant and somebody orders a salad, I mean, I'm not cruel, but I tease the shit out of them. I'm like, this is, no, fuck, go have, you can have tea for breakfast tomorrow. Like don't, you know what I mean? Like be alive. But I get it because it does become this pattern that you're both trapped by and comforted by, right?

Because it gives you this like way to control your world. Yeah, I felt so out of control when I lost that. I felt like he had taken it away from me and, you know, now what am I supposed to do? And that's when you start like dealing with all the shit that's making you control your eating in the first place. Right, right. When you can't obsess about the thing anymore. Right, which the thing is just a great way to occupy your mind. Yeah.

Yeah. So you don't look at other things. Yeah. And so you were able to kind of do that on your own. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I guess so. Mm-hmm.

And now it's been a long, you know, like 13 years. And I feel so I can imagine going back to that. Right. Yeah. Right. And also I think you have such an interesting artistic life and you do so much that it's so nice that like all that energy gets to be focused on art. Yeah. You know.

And not on making charts. Yeah, exactly. Also, cheese. Like, cheese is so good, you know? Sometimes I'll just, now my thing is to just eat all the yummy bits, right? Like, to not even bother with the rest of it. Just cheese. Like, I'll just have a plate of cheese.

I don't even need anything to convey it to my mouth. Like, I don't need a cracker. I'll just put the cheese in cheese and booze. And I have had cheese and booze for dinner many, many times. Oh, I have to. Yeah. It's the greatest dinner. I mean, yeah, it is.

It's really good dinner. Like, I only ate the bits I wanted. Treat dinner sometimes. I'm not putting broccoli on the plate to me, feel better about the meal. I'm just going to eat the part I wanted, which was the cheese,

sometimes nuts. Yeah, a few macona almonds. Oh, yeah. Like I hadn't needed a minute, apparently. I told, I said to the top of the show that when Melanie sat down, there was no way I could talk about everything she's done. But I want to talk about what you're doing now,

the HBO series, which just felt it. name just fell out of my head. Togetherness. Thank you. I was like, it's somethingness, familyness, peopleness. Togetherness.

And that show was, tell me a little about that show and like coming under that show. Oh my gosh. It's, um, first of all, my favorite job I've ever had. Oh, how exciting. Yes. Oh, that's amazing. I know. I can't believe it.

Oh. I got picked up for season two, so we're getting another chance to do it again. That's so great. Oh. And it's the Duplas Brothers, right? The Duplas brothers and they're so. Sweethearts and it's just like a very small show. There are four main characters and it's just like about relationships and married couple

who's in trouble, her sister and his friend and how they all kind of interact. Do you feel like, do you feel like I always, I don't know if I'm so like I read Cosmopolitan, but I always like when shows do relationships like in an interesting way and not and I like meet, Like right now there's some new series coming out where it's like, he decided to have a baby with his best friend who's a lesbian, but then he fell in love with a straight girl. Now there are three people together. My friend wrote that show.

Oh, shit. My friend loves, she's an amazing writer. I'm an asshole. But I just love when stuff is kind of dark and messy. Do you know what I mean? Yes. And I'm just wondering like what, I'm saying the couple on the show is in trouble.

And I'm just wondering like how interesting that's been to do and play. been so interesting. And it's really, I read all the comments. I haven't seen any of the show, but I trust her so much. I think, you know,

I think she's probably, I just had to. No, I'm glad that you said something. And I haven't seen it. So I beat up on it like sight unseen. I do that with shows too. There are so many like kind of high concept shows.

And I'm like, oh, that's very complicated. Right. But I think Liz's show is going to be great. I'm sure it's going to be great. But our show is very simple. And it's just kind of like over the course of the first season, for my character, just the marriage is just breaking down.

They're trying to communicate. They're both horrible at it. There's one episode where they go out on a date night and they try to have sex. It's miserable. They get in a fight. And it's just so satisfying. The Duplas brothers are really willing to. go into just the little corners that are messy and horrible.

And somebody wrote to me on Twitter, and they were like, I really appreciate that the writers and you weren't afraid to make your character unlikable. You were like, wait a minute, what? I wrote back to him, and I said, women are human beings too, smiley face. Because I really get what he was saying,

and I understand that that's a thing that doesn't happen that often. Right. And I appreciated it, But at the same time, I was like, you wouldn't write that to a man. No, you wouldn't. No, because, no, it's absolutely true. You wouldn't because guys get to be all the things, all the time.

All the things. Yeah, all the things. Any of the things. And all of the heroes of the last five years have been terrible people. Yeah. Male heroes, anyway. I mean, for sure. I just remember all the time I was watching Breaking Bad thinking,

why am I rooting for this person? He is a terrible person. Why do I care? He's terrible. I need to see that show. Oh, you should. It's good if you ever get, if you ever have time to like, but what's interesting about that show is like again he's I mean he was really like in many many ways

irredeemable and yet like it was a riveting show but like we don't we are finally writing if not irredeemable women flawed women yeah who are still captivating I mean he was an irredeemable person who was completely captivating right yeah and that show how to get away with murder the annelisse I think her last name is Mitchell but I could have that wrong that the viola davis character I mean, like, you know, like, you know, I mean, complex. Yeah. Borderline irredeemable. Rividing.

But that's new for women. That's really, really new. Very, very new. Yeah. And also, I think in a marriage, a lot of times what these shows, and like I'm thinking of something like, I mean, I actually really enjoyed this as 40, but like even something like that, the wife is super cute, you know, and she's like, adorable. And the guy can't get his shit together, but look at his adorable wife.

Why can't you get, you know, she's so cute. Yeah. Yeah. And people don't like it. I mean, a lot of people and women especially were very excited by it. And I got a lot of really positive responses. And I read all the comments or whatever, like an idiot. Bravery.

Yeah. There was like this one dude who just couldn't get over how unfair it was for my character's husband to be married to someone like me. He was like, she has completely let herself go. She nags him all the time. She is a horrible person. She's played like a cartoon villain. He was so astonished by the fact. I mean, and the character I'm playing is just like not a super great communicator.

And in an example, like he wrote one of these comments after an episode had aired where my husband shows up at a party I'm throwing to raise money for a charter school on mushrooms in a lady's robe. And I'm like, can we talk for a minute? And then we have a little argument. And then I'm like, why don't you just like go take a nap or something? Right, because honestly, that's, that is the prescribed behavior when you're on shrooms. There's no, it's not like, hey, come in and mingle. There is no other answer than get the fuck out of here.

You can't be here right now. No. And I, I loved how sort of like, okay with it she was. Like, it's a crazy thing. And she wasn't, she was like, what the fuck are you doing? Right, right. But she wasn't like, I hate you or, yeah. And I was like, wow, this dude.

really can't. It was so fascinating to me. I really looked forward to his comments. Because I was like, he really can't. He's being very challenged by this. Right. By a woman who's like making mistakes, not being super forthcoming about how happy or unhappy she is. Isn't that cute? Isn't wearing cute outfits? Right. Isn't like adorable. Yeah. Hasn't like gone to the gym to like try to look like a size whatever people are supposed to look like. Right. Right. Right. It's so interesting how people get outraged. Like, did you hear the whole thing about the Amy Schumer trailer for the movie Trainway?

No, tell me. I think I heard, like, not enough to be able to describe it, so tell me. Well, there's this film writer who I won't name, who wrote this, like, dissertation of the trailer that said it was insane to think that Amy Schumer was like a viable romantic prospect. like who would want to sleep with her. Wow. And I was like, is this seriously what it's come to? Is this? Like, she's gorgeous.

Yeah. And blonde. And hilarious. She's, and curvy. Yeah. She is sexy as shit. Yeah, she is.

And she's a badass. And I like outright propositioned her. I was like, you were the hottest thing I've ever seen. And she's so, and there's just no part of my mind that would be like, is she cute or not? Like, she's so. hot. Right, right. And this man, like, had the fucking balls to be surprised that she's made a movie where a few dudes are having sex with her. Like, and I just, it's so astonishing to me that there's really this prescribed thing of what some men think women are supposed to look like. Right, right.

And not just, like, there's something even greater than that. It's like this box. of like box of attractiveness and then this like even narrower box of like sexuality. And then like within that box is like the idea that like if you're a sexual woman like you should be like passively sexual. Yep. Do you know what I mean? Like yeah. Because like what's something that's so cool and exciting about Amy Schumer is that she's a top.

Do you know what I mean? Like she's a full on top. And like that's what makes her so hot. The part of what makes her so hot, you know. And of course there are literally, I don't know what the number is. but it's like more than millions of people who would be drawn to her like a moth. It's inside.

Yeah. And so the idea that sexuality is like something that comes out of you with your mouth closed too. Like that person's like objectively hot and I want to fuck them. But like just based on how they look. Right. Rather than like everything about this person is attractive, not just like their shape or their, you know,

their proportions, but like their energy. Because you've ever met somebody who you're like, okay, not even conventionally or unconventionally attractive. just like, I'm looking at this person and to me, I don't find them personally attractive. And then they talk for 10 minutes and then you're like, my pants came off all by themselves. They're on the ground. I don't know how they did it. You know what I mean?

Absolutely. So, like, this person doesn't know what they're talking about, obviously. But then, like, the more interesting thing I was thinking about was this person who keeps criticizing you and your character's husband on the show or like the relationship or who you are. there's like this specific Hollywood lens, right? And it's to distill it down to like something very simple. I have a friend who actually pitched it. And by the way, he's Gary Anthony Williams, who's an overweight guy, was like, he's like, it's the fat guy, skinny wife.

Right? Like here's a guy who has let himself go, never been to the gym, eats like a, you know, like he's never, like he's never seen food before, could care less. And then he's got a size for a wife. Yeah. Right? So that paradigm makes perfect.

Perfect. And she's all like, you know, eternally tolerant and oh, you and your hijinks and you're adorable and rolling her eyes when he like spends there of life savings or sets the car on fire or freaks a baby on top of it. Right? But like when that dynamic is reversed in any way. Oh yeah. Then it's like mayhem, right? It's heresy. Yeah. And I it's interesting that that's like a paradigm that like, you know, it's it's not the best way to describe it, but you understand what I'm saying. I totally understand what I'm saying. You know, like I'm saying. wife, the kind of the king of queens, you know, I love Kevin James so much. But you know what I mean? This kind of thing where he's a guy who married a woman who, you know, kind of, again, or even like something like everybody loves Raymond where it's like the guy's a total duf, total screw up and the wife is just like eternally patient.

Yeah. This is like a fantasy that people have. Yeah. And it's something that people have gotten used to. If anything outside of that occurs on their TV screens, they're like, I don't understand what's happening here. Why wouldn't he leave her immediately? Yeah. But no one's looking at his behavior at all to see, like, is this behavior like, yeah, worthy of sticking around for?

It's really, it's so amazing to me. I was really fascinated by it. A show like this that is kind of complex and, you know, like multifaceted and maybe like a little bit more unflinching looking at marriage, because, you know, the fact of the matter is the interior of a marriage is like a murky-ass play. Oh, God, yeah. I wonder, and again, if you don't want to answer this question, tell me. But, you know, I think a lot of times we play, you know, a lot of everything that you need is on the page. But I always wonder, like, when there are things I've done where I was like, oh, this is bringing up shit for me, like, in my own life. Yeah.

Has it been that way for you with this? Or have you been able to take personal experiences and bring them in? Or have you extrapolated things that have happened with the couple? And has it kind of influenced how you've seen things that have happened in your own life? It's interesting. There are aspects to the character that are similar to me. But mostly she is very, very different. Mm-hmm.

And I was married. I'm not married anymore. Mm-hmm. But I never had, like, my husband and I would go out to dinner with other couples. And, you know, at a certain point, like, the wife would be like, oh, we never fuck anymore. I'm so sick of him or that. And the husband, you know. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Overshering a little bit. A lot of different people. But, you know, sometimes you would be in situations where you were aware that. Right. People were going through it. Yeah, people were going through it. People were not excited about each other anymore.

People were just kind of bored. And I never had that in my marriage. We never had that. It was always, there were other issues. Obviously, we're not married anymore. But I never knew that feeling of just like, oh, my God, this again. Right. This person again.

Yeah. There was too much excitement. Too much excitement. It was too much like, well, it's going to. You know, how are you going to react to this? How am I going to react to this? It's not going to go well. Whatever was going on with us.

And he's a person I care about deeply. He's like a dear friend of mine. I hope he doesn't feel weird about him. I feel like I'm being discreet about him. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I don't want to make him feel weird. Yeah.

But I never, I haven't felt the thing that my character is feeling on the show, which is just the sense of like, this is my life now. Right. have to wake up every day next to this person who I'm not interested in with these, you know, I don't have kids. I don't know what that feels like. Right. To take care of people every day and wake up and be responsible for someone else.

Like I have kind of a selfish life still, you know, 37 years old. But you know what's interesting? Like people always, I always, people always use that term when they refer to people, don't have children. Yeah. And they- that I just did it. Well, no, because it's, it, it, it, it, it articulates everything kind of fully, like, so it's an easy word to use.

Yeah. But, but, but I, I, I don't, definitely, obviously, I don't agree with it because I feel like, you know, first of all, I feel like, once you have kids, it's pretty selfless to raise them. But the act of making a person is a pretty selfish thing. I mean, it's like, I'm so awesome. I got to make more of me. You know, it's very self-driven. You know what I mean? It's adopting is self-sful.

Right? Like going and finding a baby that's already serious. It's selfless. Absolutely. But choosing not to make a new person is not really a selfish choice. I mean, I think it's just a conscious choice. It's more thoughtful. I think more people just make babies because I guess I'm almost as new now. And then they wake up one day and they're like, ugh.

Yeah, and I think a lot of people get to kind of crossroads in their marriage where they're like, got to shake it up. Should we bring someone else into this? Right. Just something to do, right? Not sexually. Just another person. Right.

Yeah, I think that is a thing. I really think that so many people have children without thinking enough about it. I feel exactly the same way. I think they think, like, this is what you do next or this is as good as it's going to get. And so I might as well have something to do all day. Or like, yeah, my marriage is at an impasse and it's either ended or, you know, might as well make it. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Look, a lot of people are very considerate. They've always wanted kids. It's what they know they wanted to do when they do it. And I'm not belittling parenthood in any way. But I didn't want kids for most of my life. And then I thought I did. And then I realized I didn't. But I do think that like this idea that like you're a bad person or you're selfish if you don't have kids is like this weird like archaic.

Like you're just being selfish. Isn't that interesting? It's so it is not something that I believe in on any level. But it's so kind of ingrained in me culturally. Because it's a cultural concept. Yeah. you're like you just like I'm apologizing for it even though I don't if someone was like oh do you feel that you should apologize for not being a mother at the stage in life I'd be like fuck no I feel like I should

be like you're welcome yeah exactly high fives all around yeah yeah yeah there's not a confused person running around in the world like is this person sure they made the right choice in having me you know but it's such a weird I'm so used to sort of be yeah It's still, as women, it's expected. Oh, absolutely, 100%. And people don't get it when you haven't. And to most people, if you articulated, like, hey, I think there's plenty of people here already. And I'm not, like, not that into it.

You know what? Like, just horns. Like, you just seem like you're a demon. Like, that's the only kind of fulfilling activity in life. It's so true. And I had a conversation once with a friend where I was like, I don't know if I'll have kids. I don't know about, you know. I think something would really have to strike me in order for that.

And she was so confused. And then she was like, well, I guess your movies will be your legacy. And I was like, you know, I've never one second of my life thought about my legacy. Like, what's my legacy? And it was so sweet of her. And I was like, wow. She was just trying to kind of like place you in the world. Yeah.

She was like, so what are you leaving behind? I don't know. It all seems so temporary to me. Right. Right. And I think for some people, a child is a ward against the ephemeral nature of being alive, right? And we're all going to die anyway. But people have, well, if I make a child, then that's how I'll stay here. But you're not staying here. No one is staying here. No one gets to stay here. So, you know, it's interesting. I think that's, it is. It's like people's like warred against kind of like their own mortality, which is I want to make something that will be here when I go. Isn't it? People don't think about it that way.

They're like, what a cute baby? Put a little flower on its head. I hate it when babies have flowers on their heads. It's so weird. It's really weird. I get that you don't want people to call your baby a boy when it's a girl. But by the way, she doesn't speak English and she doesn't care.

So, like, work through it. I mean, that's all you. That's all your own ego. No one, the baby's like, baby's like poop, milk. Baby's not. Doesn't care that that weird old lady thinks that she's a boy. Nobody cares. No, it doesn't know.

No, no idea. This time for self-affircated wounds. Oh, I could talk to you forever. Oh, yes, I could talk to you forever as well. So you said you thought you had something. I think I have something, but it's kind of silly. That's okay. This has been a very heavy-duty conversation.

I know. I guess I can be light. Well, this is kind of, I'm worried that this is just going to make me seem like pathetic. Everyone's going to be like, oh, poor poor you. Nobody thinks that. Well, many years ago, I was. was at this event and it was like a big sort of like fancy fashion event. And I felt very out of place and I was like, you know, it was at the time where I had a lot of

self-loathing and I was like, who do I think I am? And I was wearing this sexy little dress but I kept my coat on all night because I was so afraid of my body. And at the end of the night this man came up to me and he said, I work for Mr. Valentino and pointed behind him in Valentino was standing there and gave a little sort of wave. And he said, he finds you very charming

and he would like you to know that he will dress you whenever you need a dress for an event. Wow. And it was such a like magical, you know, it was like a Cinderella moment. And I could not take it in. and I when I was thinking about the self-inflicted wounds

I was like because I was thinking about this the other day I remembered that and I was like oh I could have been being dressed by Valentino from 20 years old and I didn't I was too scared I never called this man because I was like he was probably being nice he probably saw that I look shy

and was like go over and then I was like Valentino was not in the business of like propping up the self-esteem of shy actresses. Like, there was something genuine. Like, he was like, I would like to give you a dress so you don't walk around in your old coat all night, you know? Probably. And I just couldn't allow myself to believe that that was a real thing that could happen.

So I never called that man. I continued to just, like, borrow a dress from a friend or wear any old, you know, whatever I could afford. And I just was thinking about it. other day and I was like gosh I'm so I feel so much bitter about myself now like if that happened to me now I would be like fuck yes that's amazing thank you 9-01 the next day hello hello this is me I've come to collect my free gowns um but at the time I just was so like paralyzed but it just made me feel so sad I was like oh no sad that you couldn't somebody literally put it in your hand and you

were like, I don't deserve that. No, thank you. I understand completely what you're saying. And we were talking about earlier that like the stuff that you pick up in your childhood, it just like sticks with you your whole life in ways that like sometimes you're not even really aware of until obviously much later. Yeah. And I totally get it. Also because like that feels so remote. Like how would you ever have dreamt that that would have happened to you in a million years? I couldn't even. And then I was like, that's not a real thing. I'm going to call them and they're going to laugh at me.

Yeah, someone's going to pick up the phone. Like, I don't know who you are. Yeah, what are you doing? What are you trying to get from us? No, no, thanks. I mean, I think, I totally hear what you're saying about, like, wishing you had been more pre-possessed. But I actually think that, like, I get it. I totally understand what you're saying.

Yeah. And it's a self-inflicted moon, but I think it's also just interesting. to kind of think about who you were then and who you are now. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I think so too. Yeah.

But I don't know. I was like going through all the times I woke up with someone I shouldn't have woken up with. I was like, I don't know about any of these stories. I don't want to like shame anyone or be like, that was a horrible mistake. And some poor dude is like, what was that? Outs obscure some of the details. Oh, I'm sorry.

Oh, should have put my back into it. for me, but... I think it's a really good story. I will tell you a quick story is that you feel like you have company, which is that I went to a fundraiser, and this was not that long ago, honestly, I would say maybe like three years ago. And it was like a big thing in Elton John was playing, and it was very, very famous. And I knew some people at a table, and they weren't at my table, and I went over and there

was a seat available, so I sat down, and then I realized I was... I had sat next to Rod Stewart, and I was sitting in his wife's... seat and I remember I was like I don't belong here I don't belong at this table I don't belong at this event and I'm waiting for like rod to turn to me and be like what are you what are you doing like get up yeah you know go back to the nosebleeds and of course he was like super truing and I talked about but like I was very excited but you know but you don't mean in your head you're just like I'm a total interloper like that's just you know those feelings are they're real you know and so I understand because that only happened to me like in 2010.

Oh, my God. I'm sure Rod Stewart turned around and was like, this is great. It was like, you look, Rupal, you look so feminine. How do you do it? Or do you tuck it? Anyway, this was such a great conversation, Melanie.

It was the best. Thank you for having me. Oh, what a joy. Thanks for doing it. That was Melanie Linsky. And I feel as if my hyperbole at the top of the show actually undersold how great she was. She was so lovely, so sweet, so wonderful.

There is no apolloja for this show. There is no reason to apologize. She is the best. And that was, in my opinion, my show at its finest. So I hope you enjoyed it. You guys are the greatest. You are the very, very sharp tip of the long spear, of the far-reaching vanguard,

of the deep pockets of the badass point of the Girl and Guy Army. You are the best. You are my subscribers. You are better than everyone who surrounds you. Don't forget it and never let them forget it either. You are Army. You are Legion. Talk to you on the next one. Late. Girl on Guy is a production of Hot Machine, blowing shit up since 2009.