Girls Gone Bible - Christine Caine | Girls Gone Bible

Episode Date: July 18, 2025

Hiiii GGB!   In this episode, we sit down with Christine Caine for a real and honest conversation about purpose, calling, and learning to follow God’s plan—not ours.   We talk about what happens when you start building things God never gave you… and why so many of us end up burned out or confused when we’re chasing what looks good instead of what’s God-given.   we love you so much. Jesus loves you more. -Ang & Ari   Everyday Dose Upgrade your morning routine with Everyday Dose — a mushroom coffee alternative designed to help with focus, energy, and gut health without the crash. Get 45% off your first order at everydaydose.com/GGB with code GGB.   Hiya Health Say goodbye to sugar-filled kids’ vitamins. Hiya is a pediatrician-approved, clean multivitamin your kids will actually want to take. Get 50% off your first order at hiyahealth.com/GGB.   ORDER OUR NEW BOOK! You can order our new book “Out of the Wilderness— 31 Devotions to Walk with God Through Your Hardest Seasons” at girlsgonebible.com/book   JOIN US ON GGB+ 🥹❤️ https://ggb.supportingcast.fm   COME SEE US ON TOUR: Tickets for our tour are now on sale. Go to www.GirlsgoneBible.com/tour September 4, 2025 - Seattle, WA September 5, 2025 - Portland, OR September 19, 2025 - Glenside, PA September 21, 2025 - Dayton, OH October 16, 2025 San Francisco, CA October 25, 2025 Morristown, NJ October 26, 2025 Patchogue, NY November 14, 2025 Atlanta, GA December 6, 2025 Los Angeles, CA   WE LOVE YOU AND CANNOT WAIT TO SEE YOU!

I've been walking with Jesus longer than you've been alive and it just gets better. Wow. Thank you, Jesus. It's just so cool. I'm so sorry. He's got a great story and you girls have helped him. He's awesome. I remember before you guys got here how you guys have helped me and kind of like let me

find my path to it. It's cool. Yeah. Just encouraged me to do it. Oh, Jess, can you imagine a year of him being our producer? He's sitting right in that room. Two years now. Two years.

Oh my gosh, two years. Look at him. Say it. You guys were my first guests. We were the first ones? That makes me so happy. You and Neil were my first ones. Girls, I don't think we're going to be quiet. Excuse me, I'm going to... No, we're not. I don't think we're going to be. Hi, I'm Anne. And I'm Ari. And this is Girls Gone Bible. And you guys know when I'm sitting on this side of the table, it's a really good day.

And we just have the greatest guests here on Girls Gone Bible. And I think we're so grateful today because we have one of the greatest women of faith that we've ever even had the opportunity of watching preach a sermon or speak at a conference. The fact that we get to sit here across from a woman that we admire so much is like truly proof of the goodness of God. Christine Kane, we love you and we honor you today. We thank you for being here.

Girls, I am so fired up. We have not stopped talking already. I know. Oh man. We are so excited to have you today. Listen, I'm pumped. I really am. Thank you for inviting me. It's awesome. I didn't know that you lived in California. I don't know why I thought that you were somewhere else, but you live really close to me. So I'm going to be hitting you up for dinner.

Really? I don't cook, but I do order in really well. Really, I don't cook, but I do order in really well. Oh, I love it. That's perfect for me. Yeah, Christine, we're so excited to talk to you today. You have lived an extraordinary life. You love Jesus so much. You preach the Word of God with truth, with conviction, with clarity. And from what I do know about you is that you're just so highly respected in this space.

And yeah, I just know that there's no compromise in you. Yeah. You know, because one of the greatest things about being my age, you know, I'm old enough that I was here when the dinosaurs still walked on me. That I got saved before there was an internet or before there was social media. So you, you, I so encountered Jesus and I never had an option of like going online to kind of scroll through everybody's life and kind of go, oh, I would like to do that for God. Like, you know, you, you, you got into a prayer closet

with the Lord to get a download from what God wanted you to do. So it was not like you were ever signing up for like a career. And in fact, for me it was, so the opposite, I came from a very strict Greek Orthodox background. Girls, you know, I'm older than you girls, women did not do what I'm doing. There was no like precedent that I really could see or a paradigm. I just got safe-saved. And so eventually someone shoved a microphone in front of my face to do what I was just doing nonstop, which was leading people to Jesus, and which is really

what I keep doing now all over the world. So special. Can you please just get into your story a little bit? Oh, yeah. From childhood to meeting Jesus and then to where you are now. Oh, gosh. I wish it was just linear. but you know, I was born the daughter of Greek immigrants in Sydney, Australia. Have you guys been to Sydney? No, I have not been to Australia, but we're upset.

Oh, I went years ago. It's awesome. It is. Have you seen those big spiders? Yeah, I'm so scared. I don't know how people live there. Every American on earth thinks Australia is full of just snakes and spiders. Are the spiders this big?

Well they're, they're rather miraculous but I think the myth is a bit more, the legend is a bit greater. I did survive 45 years living there. Yeah, yeah, okay. I survived, that's all I'm saying. In a way. But yeah, they are pretty ugly. They're the biggest problems in the world.

Yes, yes, they are. Huntsmen, they are like as big as your hand. That's what you're freaking, it's real. My mom. Really hairy. Yeah, yeah, they're hairy. Okay, so as big as your hand. That's what you're freaking, it's real. Really hairy, yeah, okay, so that's freaking you out. Yeah, exactly, but, and yes, I did see a few in my time.

But, you know, so I grew up and back then there were, you know, we just had our own version of like, being very marginalized because of my ethnicity. You know, there wasn't in my community, a lot of great kids. It was just kind of, you were on the side there. I grew up in an environment where women were definitely not encouraged to go and live for your dreams.

It was, you know, and especially to be an ethnic kid, like the goal was just get married, have kids, you know, don't think outside the box, stay within these lines. And, you know, don't think outside the box, stay within these lines. And you know, my parents were great, but my parents allowed people into our home whom they should have been able to trust, but proved really, really untrustworthy. So for a lot of years of my life, I was sexually abused at the hands of four different men that were just kind of in and out of our house. And

as you could imagine, that messes with you big time. So I was really very broken. And back then, I mean, nobody was talking about it in the 1970s, 1980s. I didn't even have a word for what was happening to me. It was like, thank God for where we are today in terms of Post Meme too and people being aware and people having tools to speak up and say something. But then there was no way

you kind of just buried it and you buried the shame, except you lived in that shame. So I would say that I was so shame-filled and that drove me to try to get my significance and security from just all the stuff you do from looking for love in places that you know were never really going to deliver or trying to achieve and you know accomplish stuff academically or try to somehow find my value because there was this and you know shame obviously is different to guilt. Guilt is kind of I did something wrong. Shame is there's something wrong with me. So I can tell you as long as I've ever remembered that I always thought there was something wrong with me. No wonder in Genesis 2.25 it says the very last verse before the fall, the Bible says Adam and Eve were naked and they knew no shame. The one thing God

wanted us to know is that we were designed to never know what that felt like. So if you were the enemy and you wanted to take out a generation, you're going to try to put on them the one thing they were never designed to carry. And so of all the things God could have said, the last thing he said, Adam and Eve were naked and they knew no shame. Bang, then Genesis 3. We get into the fall where shame enters humanity. And so the enemy has done the same thing ever since. No, you know, there's nothing new in that. And so, and with that, you know, question, the three questions then in Genesis 3 with the enemy, the very first question in the Bible, he comes to Eve and he says, did God really say? Because the issue is if you don't know what God said, you're going to believe, in my case, you're going to believe what

the abuser said, you're going to believe what the kids at school said that mocked and ridiculed you because you weren't, you know, of the same ethnicity, you're going to believe what your culture and tradition says that women shouldn't do this, you know. So, did God really say is the first question in the Bible and the single most important question still today, we're recording this in 2025. There is no more important question because if you do not know what God said, you're going to believe what everybody else says, and culture, society, worse, what you say. So, you know, God says, Adam and Eve were naked, they knew no shame, then did God really say? It just, the pattern repeats itself and God comes into the garden

with the very first question and he says, where are you? God's first question to humanity is, where are you? Because when they ate of the fruit of the tree, what's the first thing they did? They went into hiding. And Adam says to God, you know, I was naked and afraid and so we hid. So fear, shame, hiding was in the first conversation between God and man. I'm saying all that to go, that was my whole experience. So I grew up in church in a three-hour liturgy in ancient Greek, in a Greek Orthodox church that I never understood. But my heart, my little tender heart wanted God, but I didn't understand any of it. I used to see pictures of the saints on the walls. And I remember saying to my mum when I was a kid,

mum, I want to get my picture on the wall. But she told me like you had to die and get martyred. So I didn't want to do that. But it was like, I had this sense that I wanted God, but I thought truly, I had this sense that I wanted God, but I thought truly there is no way God could love someone as dirty as me, as used as me. You know, I didn't have the language for what was happening, but there was this something wrong with me. And then there's that invitation from God, you know, where are you? And I think he's asking us, where is the you that I created? Where did you go into hiding? Who said what to you or who did what to you that caused you to run from me, which is why humanity runs from God, I think. And then, you know, two weeks before my 33rd birthday, I got a phone call from my brother

George and he was 35. I was about to be 33 and my younger brother Andrew was 30 at the time and George called me and he said, Chris, I just got a letter from the government in Australia, this department is the Department of Community Services. He goes, I just got a letter from Docs and it says that I've been adopted. Now when he first said that to me, I started laughing because you know when you grow up you say to your siblings, we're not related like you're a die case. But then suddenly, I mean, I go, George, they've obviously made a mistake. They've sent this to the wrong person, call them and tell them that they've sent this letter to the wrong person. Now he called me about 10 minutes later, because

this time like he was sobbing. And he goes to me, he said, Chris, it's true, they tell me the name of my biological mother, my biological father, when I was born, when I was immune, they have a whole file on my life. And I was like, oh my gosh, and he goes, I'm going to go and confront mom. Now, my dad had died when I was 19. At the time, my mom was home alone. We're from a Greek background, so Greeks are really crazy. So I'm thinking anything could happen now. I jump in my car, I drive to my mum's house, I walk into the front door. At the minute, my brother is giving my mum this piece of paper.

And my mum's face, I saw her take it. I felt like I was watching a movie. And the blood just drained from her face. She starts crying and she goes, George, I am so sorry. All of the adoption laws in Australia 35 years ago, they were all closed adoptions and we never thought you would find out. And the last thing I promised your dad before he died was that I'd never tell you. So I tore up all of the paperwork and I never thought you'd find out. So girls, you can imagine. Like

my mum's crying, my brother's crying. I'm thinking, what am I going to do? So I thought, you know, I'm a good Greek daughter, go to the kitchen, make food, do something. So I go start making some food. And then my mother walks in behind me and in Greek, you know, she spoke to me in Greek. She said to me, Christina, since we're telling the truth today, do you wanna know the whole truth? And with that, I turned around, so I'm two weeks after my 33rd birthday, I went, I've been adopted too, like I had no idea.

And she's bawling and just nods her head and says, yes, and I was stunned, like just stunned. You know, it's a shocking thing to find out you're not who you thought you were. Like it's shocking. And so if you want to talk about the crux of your identity being challenged of who you are. And you know, the first thing I said to her,

well, the very first thing I went, am I still Greek? Because I thought I'd been so ridiculed at school for so many years. There had to be a reason for it. But then, so this is the power of really, I think where we're going to go today maybe. So I had, imagine how broken I had been with all of the abuse, the abandonment, you know, growing up kind of in government housing in the outskirts of Sydney, very marginalized because of my ethnicity, my gender, and then the shame of the abuse

and just feeling like not enough. So when I came to faith in Christ, and it was, you know, I'd love to say it was a straight journey, but it wasn't. It was, you know, two steps forward, three steps back. There were a lot of people that the Lord brought into my life in his grace and mercy to lead me to Himself. But what I will say is from when I turned 22, someone invited me to a local church in Sydney,

Australia in a warehouse. And from that day, it was the 29th of January, 1989, six o'clock Sunday night service. From that day, I've never looked back because I walked in, I found home and began to really be discipled and went forward. So from that time, 1989, January, and then I find out I'm adopted in 1999. So that would be 10 years, 33, 23, just about. So about, you know, for that 10 years, because I was so broken when I came to faith in Christ, so shame-filled and full of anger and bitterness and unforgiveness and all the things that come with just the brokenness of my past, I – this is why I love this podcast – this word, like, you know, Jesus Christ saved my soul, but this word saved my mind. Like, it saved my mind.

So I am this young girl in my early 20s, totally messed up, encountered Jesus, but I don't know which way is up. I don't know how to think about myself. So I begin, and I'm discipled in the word of God. And this is why I'm so big on Bible memorization because it literally changed my life. Did therapy help? Yes.

Did friends help? Yes. But nothing helped like internalizing this Word of God in the very marrow of my bones, like replacing the lies I believe about myself with the truth of what God said about me. There's no greater force on the earth. I'll go to my grave with that passion because I know that I know that I know. And this is, I'm saying this and I'm hoping this is going to help someone watching today. At that moment, after I said, am I still Greek?

But the next thing, so this is 10 years after I'm saved, daily renewing my, sorry, daily renewing my mind. And I'm talking stick, I'm old school, you know, we didn't have these trendy things. So I would stick at notes everywhere in my car. I didn't listen to radio, didn't watch television. It was Bible verses. Yes. But like what God says, you are the right, I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. therefore there is now no condemnation. You know, I would just put every, remind myself, who does God say I am, that I am his workmanship created for good works in Christ Jesus. I mean, I would just, and I would declare and decree a day in, in my breaks at work, I would be just, I would just have this. I was one of those old school, you might say obsessed,

yes, but I had had enough of the world, I needed to turn it all off, you know what I mean? I needed to turn it all off. And I would just have worship music day and night renewing my mind and reminding me that I'm a daughter of the King, that I'm a beloved daughter of the King, that I'm created in the image of God. I'm filled with God-given purpose and God-given destiny, that I am the head and not the tail, above and not beneath, a leader and not a foe. I would just say things that God said about me. And for the first year, I didn't believe any of it. But I kept saying it until it's so internalized that it became, you know, that coming to that point of elevating God's voice above everybody

else's voice. So in that moment in my mom's kitchen, so I'm not in church, there's no worship music, there's no you know angels dancing on the duvet, it's just me and my mum in the kitchen. But because of all of that, in that moment where I could have unraveled and who knows you know still be sort of in a fetal position now, what came out of me, because my mom was so crying, I grabbed her hand and I went, mom, it's okay. Because before I was formed in my mother's womb, God knew me. Whosever womb I was formed in, God knew me. He knitted together my innermost parts.

He fashioned all of my, this is coming out of me, in the kitchen. He fashioned all of my days before as yet there was one of them, I went, mom, no matter what I am fearfully and wonderfully made. And that day, every fact that I thought to be true about my life changed. And still I'm talking to you girls today, I don't know the facts surrounding my conception. Was it a one night stand? Was it an ongoing adulterous affair? Was it a rape? I don't know. But although I don't know the facts, there is a

force on the planet much higher than the facts and it's called the truth of the word of God. And Ephesians 2 verse 10 does not say, I'm the workmanship of a rape or an affair. It says, I'm God's workmanship, recreated in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared before I ever got to earth to fulfill. And there's not a demon in hell or a person on earth that could thwart the plans and purposes of God for your life. So about a year later I got my birth certificate, which is so weird getting a birth certificate, you know, when you thought you had one. And on that it says child's name and then typed in is the word unnamed, number Oh eight of 1966. And that was like a knife in my heart. So you've got this no name, just two five, I wait and numbers and numbing

numbers are very dehumanizing, very desensitized. You know, it's, it's so easy to ignore suffering when it's nameless and faceless. So, you know, we rescue the victims of human trafficking. And if I go, there's 50 million slaves in the world today, it's almost like the number so big, you don't think about it. But if I said to you 2508 of 1966, you kind of think, oh, well, but the minute I say, oh, that's me, that it changes everything. So to God, that's not just 50 million statistics in slavery, that's 50 million human beings created in the image of God. There's no statistics to God. There are only people. And so he made

sure when I saw that that no one would ever be a number. No one would ever be a statistic. Nothing is just an issue. It's people created in the image of God. And so when I saw unnamed, I remember I was weeping because it said unnamed 2508. And then of course the tape recorder starts in my head. See Christine, no wonder you're abused. You're not even worth having a name. And it had a social work report from my biologist, an assessment on my biological mom. And in that it said, it is evident that she wants to get

this over and done with and return back to work as soon as possible. And so, you know, if I had those documents here, I'd show you, I often show that to people because it's like so shocking, because it's like you've got unnamed, you've got unwanted, unvalued, it's right there, you know. And as I was bawling, my Bible was sitting there on the living room table, my husband wasn't home yet. And I'm holding this paper and I'm crying because it just says unnamed 2508 and then a document from the Royal Hospital for Women that says unwanted. And I just in my heart, not anything out loud, but in my heart, I felt the Holy Spirit say to me, open the word to Isaiah 49, 1. So here

we've got a whole Bible, 66 books. Why? You know, I'm like bawling and I just, I don't even know why, but I opened it to Isaiah 49 verse 1 and in there literally it has the words from the womb of your mother I have named your name. So I'm holding in this paper unnamed 2508 and here from the womb of your mother I've named your name and just in my heart I felt the Holy Spirit say it's going to take you as much faith to believe this black and white income paper as this black and white income paper. And where you put your faith in this moment will determine your destiny. And I remember dropping that on balling. I dropped unnamed 2508 and I just grabbed this and I just kept saying on balling, I'm going, from the womb of my mother, you have named my name. From

the womb of my mother, you have named. And I from the womb of my mother, you have named, and I'm gonna cry now, but yes, but it was like something broke like that. And then, you know, who would have known? After that, I would be, you know, another seven years later, standing at an airport to speak at a conference in Thessaloniki, Greece. And I see these posters of these missing women and children. I just traveled nearly 40 hours. I had just birthed my second child, Sophia. And you know, when you're 40

and you pop out a kid, I was not asking the Lord for any new things. I'm like, here I am Lord, send them. But as I was standing there, I went in to look at the little faces of the little children that were missing. And one of the little girls' names was Sophia. And I had just, you know, had my Sophia. And I would say this is when A21 was birthed because I went from looking at someone else's missing child to seeing my own daughter. And when you look, you can look away, but when you see, you can never ever unsee. It changes everything. And you know, that began what is now A21. But wouldn't it be just like God to take an unnamed, unwanted,

abused, adopted chick from the back of Sydney, Australia and say, you know what, I'm not only going to rescue you, but I'm now going to use and I'm going to redeem every part of your broken story for you to open the prison doors for those that are bound and set them free. So pretty. Can I just tell you, I'll just finish with this, but every time we rescue a young woman or a child or put a trafficker in jail, I think, Satan, you can stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

I bet you wish you left me alone. And then, you know, I just, I feel like Joseph in Genesis chapter 50 verse 20, he looked at his brothers, he said, you meant this for evil against me, but God meant it for this very purpose. And that's why, you know, why am I so passionate when I preach? Because Jesus saved, not only saved my eternal soul for when I die and go to heaven, but gave

me a brand new life here on earth, here on earth today. And because of His redemptive work on the cross and the fact that He rose from the dead and defeated hell and death, we all have an opportunity to have forgiveness for our past and a brand new start today. No other religion offers you this, a brand new start today. No other religion offers you this, a brand new start, a redeemed life. And so, God had good works for me to do before I ever got to the earth. And I believe A21 is part of that and helping people. But the enemy, when I was still in my mother's womb, tried to steal, kill and destroy. That's what he does. John 10 10 tried to

steal, kill and destroy that purpose. When that didn't succeed, he sent someone into my bedroom before I ever got into kindergarten to try to destroy that future. And when that didn't work, God sent his son, Jesus, to die on a cross and rise again from the dead so that all my brokenness was absorbed by Jesus. And then he filled me with the same spirit that raised him from the dead. And it's like, let's go game on. Let's make our life count. Ritualistic. Christy, stop. Don't stop. Jesus, the redemptive nature of God. It's nuts. I mean, only he writes stories. And my favorite thing about God is that he's not just here

to like make things a little better. He wants us to know that it's him. He wants us to, like, he's creative and he writes beautiful stories. He takes the horrific things that have happened to you. And then he literally is like, let me show Satan what I actually am about. Like, I'm gonna use all of the things that happened to you

and I'm gonna literally redeem it through your life. And you save so many people. This is- That's the gospel. This is what, you know, we've got to not buy into the narrative of this generation that says you have to stay a victim of your past or that your history defines your destiny.

No, the cross defines your destiny. We've got to learn to make what Jesus did for us bigger than what anyone did to us. That is where you have a life beyond the cross because so many of us will be on your past. So many of us get stuck. You know, we were talking about don't look back. I'm so urgent about this message because I'm just seeing in the last decade so many people stuck. Valid. I'm not minimizing or dismissing trauma, pain, suffering. I mean, I deal with injustice and suffering every day. My whole life background is that. But I don't want to just get stuck there. I'm like, there is a life beyond it. I want to shout it from the mountaintops to go, Jesus did not shed his blood for nothing. He did not rise from the dead for nothing.

We need to preach a full gospel. He rose from the dead. There's resurrection power. Why are we quiet about this? This is my whole point is I want to shout it from the rooftops to a generation. Oh my gosh, you are so, this is amazing. You're amazing. Thank you for saying that about you just, you're never a victim. You don't have to be a victim and that's not invalidating anything that anybody has gone through, but you're not, you don't have to be a victim when you're in Christ Jesus. That's not the final chapter. It might be a chapter in your story, but it's not the whole story because Jesus, he is the author and the finisher of our faith, not what happened to me. And you

know, the devil, I try to tell people, you know, I was abused for a good number of a lot of years. So the enemy already stole at least 10 years of my life. I'm now 59, you know, I'm about to enter my sixth decade of life. He stole 10. Why would I have given him the other 50? Why? Just by living in that all the time. I'm like, no chance. I'm not giving him one more second than what he took. And not only that, God has promised to give me back double for my trouble. So I'm like, oh, I'll take it all. Thanks very much. I'll take taking all. Okay, you guys, are you somebody who loves coffee, but the bloating, the jitters, the mid-morning crash, not so much?

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Go to h-i-y-a-h-e-a-l-t-h.com slash g-g-b. We have … Did you want to ask a question? There are just two things that are coming to my mind that I feel would be so helpful for people to talk about. I'll just say them now. Shame and just brokenness within families and how moving forward. I think something Ari and I have experienced is like, yes, we're not a victim to anything that's happened to us.

And Jesus, the blood of Christ has redeemed, restored, saved, delivered. And you enter into relationships, you enter into friendships, you enter into all these things and you see brokenness come up. And just, yeah, first let's start with shame. Can you talk to us about shame and not just I think a lot of people think shame is just feeling guilty, feeling bad about your past, oh I used to have sex and I have shame about that but shame is something so much deeper. It's a mask. It's can you just talk about because it's it's it's the root of your identity. It's

like you think fundamentally there's something wrong with me. So it's, you know, I think I said earlier that guilt, we confuse those two. Guilt is like I did something wrong, like you know, I shouldn't have done that wrong and I feel guilty about it. It's about your do. Shame is about your who. Who I am is wrong. And I think so many people get into patterns of destructive behavior, not because they're

bad, but they feel bad about themselves. And so that's why, you know, you're trying to numb your pain, either through just like one sexual encounter after the other, because you're looking for love or somehow some value or significance or security or you're abusing substances or it could be anything. You're just, you know, trying to climb up a corporate ladder and forsaking everything else, getting your value from position, title, achievements, accolades. When that thing is driving you,

it's really shame that is at the root of that because somehow you want something or someone to tell you that you're worth something. And Jesus did that at Calvary. And until you can get to that place where you know what He has done for you is what actually validates you and that there's nothing more you can do because while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. He's never gonna love us anymore. Now, it's easy to say this. It took me so long to believe this. And that six inch journey from your head to your heart is the challenge of believing God. So a lot of us

believe a lot of things about God, but we don't truly believe God. You know, first John says, God is light and in him there is no darkness. I've got to tell you girls, it took me maybe two years of saying that nearly every day to really believe it, to really believe that God had no dark side because every man I met had a dark side. And so for me to get to God is light and in him there is no darkness and to work through, well if there's no darkness in you, why did you let me get abused? Why didn't you stop it? Which would be the thing of so many of us. Why did it go on so long? Why did people would be thinking that now

for all the tragedies in the world? It's the age old issue and it's a real issue. And most of that is like, if I really was worth something, you would have stopped this. If you really did love me, you would have stopped this. And I think so many people listening to this,

deep down, it's almost like you don't wanna say it out loud, but it is what we think. And you go, I can't really trust you because you would have stopped it. And it took me a long time to get to that place to go, that was the enemy, that was a fallen world. It is not because you didn't love me or there's something wrong with me or I deserved

it or I'm collateral damage in someone else's story. We live in a fallen world. You have no dark side. You are good and you do good. And you weep. And when there was a moment that I went out, you know, in my heart where I could just, I really saw Jesus weeping over the abuse and that he bore that pain on the cross. And because he bore, and Isaiah says he bore our shame on the cross. It took me a while to get there, but when I understood he bore it so I don't have to carry it. And that is the deal with, you know, we talked about Genesis 3, like Adam and Eve were naked and then you know shame. Most important thing, the one thing God said, I'm going to let you all know, you're

not supposed to know what this is. This is crazy. And then Genesis 3, the 4, did God really say, because if you don't know what he said, you're going to believe the abusers, the teacher that said, you're dumb, you're stupid, the parent that said, I wish you were never born, the boyfriend or the girlfriend that said, no one could ever love you, you know, you're a loser, the agent that said, you said, you're never, you're going to believe that if you don't know what God says. Right. So do God, and then God's asking us, where are you? Where'd you go? Where's the you that I created?

And then to me, the saddest, the third question in Genesis 3, saddest question in the Bible, because I'm imagining the Lord like crying in the garden, looking at Adam and Eve and going, who told you? Who told you? Whose voice did you elevate above my voice? What lie did you believe? And I think to us it's the same thing. Did God really say, where are you? Who told you? Who told you you're dumb? Who told you you're stupid? Who told you you're ugly? Who told you God will never forgive you? Who told you? Who told you? Whose voice did you elevate above the voice of God? And that is what keeps us in shame. You believe that lie. And somewhere in that, we've all got it. Some teacher said to someone, an offhander comment, you'll never graduate. You'll never this. You'll never. Some parent, you think a whole generation has grown up with, you should be ashamed of

yourself. Exactly. Shame on you. And then it just comes. I feel part of my call is to declare and decree shame off you in Jesus' name to a generation because the enemy wants to keep us crippled and paralyzed through something that Jesus died on the cross for. He bore our sin and for. He bore our sin

and shame. He bore it. You know, it's so serious. I've been listening to you for hours. I love your song. No, seriously. I think that's so crazy. I've never realized that. I've never heard anybody say that. The one thing he said before the fall is do not be, they knew no shame. He didn't say they didn't know anxiety, they didn't know depression, they didn't know

addiction. He said they knew no shame. It makes you think, does every issue that we all deal with stem from shame? I just think there's so much of that because shame disrupts and violates the core of who God created. It's saying you are fundamentally flawed and yet the creation narrative you've got to go back Genesis 1, 20 in his image he created there it is right at the beginning first chapter of the Bible we're creating the image of God. We are image bearers of God. We're created to not know shame, so the enemy and the lie to Eve. He's like, you know, did God really say, she said, well, God said, this is why it's very dangerous to only read the Bible but not apply the Bible. She knew what God

said. She said, God did say, don't eat and eat. She knew exactly what God said, but she didn't do it. So obedience is what keeps us out of shame. So he says God did say, and he said, and the enemy replies back to her and he says, oh no, God doesn't want you to be like him. It's so sad because Eve forgot who she was. She already was like God. Genesis 1 tells us she was created in the image of God. She forgot she was created. And oftentimes when we act out or it's, again, I say it's not because we're bad, we forget who we are. So when you forget you're a daughter of the king, you're going to act like a daughter of the world.

That's good. That's all. Most of the people that do, you forget. Because if you remember, if you know, my daughters know, you are my daughters, you're a princess, they're not going to go and act like they're not. But when if the enemy can make you forget who you are, oh, you're going to slip into acting like who you're not. How does he do that? Well, he just lies to you. I think you just get distracted. You get out of the presence of God, you get, he'll make you feel guilt and shame over a mistake, a failure that we all make. So rather than quickly repenting and being right with God immediately, you start to spiral. And I think that's the biggest thing. He's just got everyone sucked in with, you couldn't

come back to God, you knew better, you shouldn't have done that. And it takes them down a spiral. Whereas here, she forgot and then you start to forget, you go, you start to even lie, yeah, I really am bad. Yeah, I really don't deserve it, I knew better, I shouldn't have done that, I shouldn't have slept with him, I shouldn't have done this, I shouldn't, you know what I mean? And then instead of, it's God's kindness that leads us to repentance, quickly repenting and getting back on track, changing your mind, turning around, you just end up spiralling until you end up, you know, I think how many people I drove past to get here today that I thought, they just don't know who they are. They just have forgotten that they're

a son or a daughter or they've never been told that they are a child of God created in his image. Cause you, you kind of act like who you are. There's a spring in your shoulders back, your head's lifted up high. Yeah. You're going to act how you feel. And what you truly believe about yourself. And that's where shame, it could be subtle. I mean, externally, you could look awesome and be highly successful, but still full of shame.

Oh, totally. Well, you would know, think of the world of that. You're masking something because you don't really want people because you think, if they really got to know me, they would know. And God's like God's like I really did get to know you and you're awesome I made you so you know, like it's so it's such a subtle thing, but it's the thing Because the result of it, of course what the enemy's after is your faith It caused Adam and Eve to go into hiding right, you know I was naked and hid and I was afraid fear shame, hiding. It's the modus operandi

that still operates in 2025, which is why people have these fractured relationships with God. It's rooted in fear, shame, hiding all the time. What does your day-to-day time with Jesus look like in your secret place? I've had to create it because we travel. we're on the road, you know, with A21 we've got offices all around the world and I've come in to hear from 10 countries 7 weeks, which is our normal kind of rhythm. So, it's not like I have a favorite chair. I do have one when I'm home. I sit in that. But I've had to learn to make it work, which is, I'm really glad. I think that's how the Lord's kept it very real in my life.

And it's how most people are. See, most people don't have the luxury, truly, of saying, you know, the single mom that's working three jobs to try to get her kids through school or to survive. I'm sure she'd love to be able to get up at the same time and have this extended time with the Lord. And so because of what I do and the people I work with, I want it to be able to work for a girl that's growing up in a township in South Africa or a slum in Brazil. So it's got to work for everyone. So my thing is wherever you can connect with God.

So do I have some seasons of real extended time? Yes. Part of my vocation is tied into teaching this, but it wouldn't be realistic for me to try to say to people, okay, you need to do what I do, because that's not even practical. You know, I want the mom that's trying to just survive or the woman that's, you know, on her career path and she's just like, my advice is always, whatever it is,

just make sure it's something that you authentically connect, truly connect with God that you know in your spirit, your breathing, that you've got the word. I've got everything, like, you know, I've probably got 100,000 people that I give them one verse, one paragraph, because truly, if you could do that every day, I'm with you, meditate on this verse. Here's a thought that maybe I'm gonna help you

spark your explanation to do this, because I just think that is awesome. Now, would I love to encourage people to go, maybe stop scrolling for 15 minutes and get in the Bible? Yes. I mean, because everybody, most people listening to this, you can make time if you want to make time.

So of course I'm doing that mine. And you just literally have to make a decision because I know you do. People say to me, I don't have time. It's not true. Like if I check your time on your phone and you know how it tells you how much time you spent on, how would that compare to your God time? So if you're asking me a measurement

where it's got here on your phone, and it will tell me even when I wanna lie to myself, how much headphone time I've had, how much social media time I've had. Oh gosh. If my God time is not higher than that, I have a problem. Do you remember, you said something about Goliath and a conference, and do you know it's stuck

in my head and it still repeats in my head? Do you remember what you said in the conference about like the Goliath is your phone? Oh yeah, in the morning. That you've got this here and this here and this is what my... That's what we do. It's so true. And all you have to do, number one, don't put it by your bed. That's probably how you're not going to pick it up.

But if you do, because I'm telling you, 99 out of 100 times, even when your intention is to pick this thing up first, you're going to go through this. I know. I know. So you've just got to do it. So I know everyone can do 10 minutes. So do I like extended time? Yes.

So am I going to sit on a plane? Yes. Because I travel. I'm in hotel rooms with my husband a lot, so is one of us going to go downstairs and find a quiet room? Yes. And I'm really blessed. It is worth waiting for the right one because my husband's up and in his wood before I am.

So that's helpful. What do you say? So I grew up in Massachusetts and it's like I just came back from there and it's really heavy. Yeah, oh, definitely. And so, I just, I even talk to younger girls that I try to minister to and they just have such a hard time being in these environments where it's so godless, where they just, there's no believers and they're just like, they're just trying to find Jesus, but they're around so much depression, negativity. Can you speak to that?

Yeah, I think it's because this is where we have to learn to flourish. This is why I've written my olive tree Bible study because most of the world is like that. And we are supposed to be exiles in Babylon that can flourish. So, where your route, this is where practices become really important. So, you have to create your own environment. I think like when I said when I first got saved and I shut everything else out, I had to. So, I would create and I only had my bedroom. So, that became my altar, my haven in that room. There's only worship music happening. So I create my own environment with the Holy Spirit, with the Lord. And then I would just, and you will be absorbed by the culture if you don't intentionally develop practices to fight. No one is strong

enough. But the Lord's always sent us into dark places. See, we're supposed to be salt and light in the world. But if you do not stay fueled with the Word of God, the Spirit of God, you're not going to make it. I don't care who you are. The pull of the world will take you and whether it's, and it doesn't necessarily have to be sex, drugs and rock and roll, it can be anxiety, depression, defeat. The children of Israel died in the wilderness because of murmuring, grumbling, complaining, negativity, fear. They died, didn't even go into their promise. And there's so many Christians. They're not in Egypt anymore in slavery, but they're not in the promised land either. They're just doing laps around Mount Sinai, murmuring, grumbling, complain. And you go,

there's a better life here. There's a Jesus came, John 10, 10, that we might have life and life more abundant. But your root system is important. So where are you rooted? And today, thank God, this is where to me technology is a great supplement. So in areas like the Northeast where there's not a major like, there are pockets of revival, but there's not a huge population of Christians. What you do is go, okay, things like this podcast, things like that, that supplements, that keeps you kind of hopefully fueled. But you have to go, I am going to intentionally go out of my way to find, even if it's a handful of believers that really are. And that means you're going to have to not do other stuff. I mean, there's no, And that means you're going to have to not do other stuff. Right.

I mean, there's no, you know, you think about sisters in countries like Iran or Afghanistan or what they have to go through to be able to even, you know, be a Christian and function. Like what we call, we often call inconvenience persecution. So we think it's just so hard. And really what it is is no, it's just inconvenient. You are not being persecuted. People that are losing their lives for the faith, that's called persecution. But the fact that you might not be able to go get that latte with your friends because actually you should probably be sitting in your room with some worship

music and a Bible, that's not persecution. So I'm just kind of going, okay, in our world, if you really want to make it work, there's no excuse actually. That's right. Because we have got so many great preaching, again, I'm saying supplementary, to supplement, find a community, unless you're sort of out in some country town where really there is nobody. But even then, you're going to have to have great intentionality to go, how do I stay rooted and grounded in the word? What do I not need to be doing? As much as what we're doing, which is reading the Bible, you know, being in worship, being with the community, believers equally as important, is things that you decide, I just will not

do that. Others may, I won't. Thank you. That's right. And I still have that in my life at 59. It's not that I'm even thinking it's bad. It's probably okay for them. It's just not for me. Right. Period. That has been instrumental in my life.

I think for a long time I was living as a Christian being like, okay, well, you know, if things aren't necessarily sinful, they're not necessarily bad, I feel like my true awakening was the day that the Lord started speaking, being like, just because it's not bad, doesn't mean you need to do it. Like, these things aren't necessarily sinful, but they're not for you. Yeah. I have something different for you. I have something greater for you. And like, we talk about the secret place so much, because everything that we need to operate in the world as someone who is like Christ-centered in a world that is so the opposite, you get in the secret place.

There's no other place where you can get your cure from. You're not going to zap yourself into it. This is not Dorothy, Kansas. We're not. You've got to actually create it. And again, I do understand the challenge with your generation. You know, like I said, I grew up without an internet and without social media, so you had to go to the prayer closet. You couldn't scroll through everyone else's life and tell God what you wanted to do.

Or you couldn't, you know, you had to get in a prayer closet and get a download from heaven about what was happening. You hung on to the Lord. And again, if you want anointing, because it's only the anointing that breaks yokes, chains, and bondages, not gifting. Gifting is often about us. And so we're like, how am I going to build my brand or build my platform? Like, you know, when they build the Tower of Babel, it said, come, let us build a name unto ourselves. How did that go for them? Not well. So I don't think the Lord's into that. Ministry is very different. You can only minister when there's an anointing because anointing breaks yokes and chains, but anointing only comes from crushing. And crushing only comes from the secret

place. So, you don't get that in the public place. And the public thing should only ever be an overflow. I could not have done this. This is my 38th year of full-time vocational ministry. You don't fluke that. You know what I mean? You do not fluke it. You become a target for the enemy. There are things you have to contend with, your own self, stuff that comes externally. So if there was no secret place, there's no real ministry because the fruit that is produced is only produced from that place because you abide in the vine. And you know, I have intimacy with my husband. That's not there for the whole world to see. So if I'm having intimacy with the Lord, why would all of that be there for the world to see? So if all you're doing is, you know, taking little shots of your

Bible with your coffee mug, but you haven't opened your Bible, I don't want to see it on Instagram. Hashtag bless my most authentic, natural, spontaneous self. I've just had to take it 500 times from the right angle and put the right filter on it and crop it and upload it at the right time. Hashtag blessed. I'm like, are you kidding me right now? I'm like, could you open it rather than post it? So if you're not, if you're posting it more than you're opening it, we've got a

problem. And so that's what I think we're just like, who do you think you're kidding? Who do we all think we are? And the only one that's happy about that is the enemy. And so to my deal is that when, and here is the other side, when you've really tasted of the secret hiding place, you don't want anything else. I'm like, are you serious? No, number one, you don't even want anyone in there but you and the Lord. And number two, you're not, that's not out there for public consumption. My intimate life with my husband is not out there for public, that's ours. So I've got an even deeper place, obviously not as physical,

a deeper place with the Lord. Why would I ever? I mean, you'll get the overflow, not even the, there are things that are just me and the Lord. So good. What else would I want? That that are just me and the Lord. So good. What else would I want? That's what keeps me in this thing. Yeah. That's what keeps it. You know, you don't get to 60 and I've had, you know, quite a visible and public life as if that's going to keep me. That actually, you know, and I mean, I say this so often, if the spotlight that is on you is greater than the light of Christ that is within

you, it will destroy you, which is why a generation is burning. They're like shooting stars, popping up there and then disappearing because that thing's going to kill you if the light of Christ in you is not stronger than that. I'm so happy you just said that. It's so true. And I think in an age right now where Christian content is being pushed so much and we're in an era of just virality that's mistaken for favor, and that's something that I've been sitting with God a lot recently, and being like, what's the difference between favor and going viral on the internet? And I even look at Girls Gone Bible, which we didn't know what ministry was,

we didn't know what was going on, this was an accident for the most part, you know, truly. And then I think, like, I've spent the last two years personally, like, playing catch up with God, like, hours upon hours in the secret place being like, I actually, I'm very aware that I don't have the character to carry this, and I will be crushed, and it's felt like it's been crushing me at times. And so, in a world, I think, where everyone is like, God, give me my dreams, make my dreams come true, like they should be praying, Lord, make me the type of person, give me the character that can carry the weight of the dreams that you've given me. You know, because what if your dream isn't about you? So, you know, Joseph had his dream in Genesis

37. But Genesis, you know, I'm saying this because I quoted that verse, which is a life verse for me in Genesis 50-20 when he said to his brothers, you meant this for evil by God. So he had the dream and he thought it was about him, but it was actually for the nation of Israel that he would feed them in a time of famine. But to get there, he had to be thrown into a pit. He was sold into slavery. He served as a slave in Potiphar's court and then he was falsely accused, then he went to prison. This is what favor does. And at all times, God's favor was on his life. And then the dream is realized when Joseph got to the point that, oh, the dream wasn't about me. That's what happens.

Okay. Do you know? Okay. This is amazing. Jeremiah 29, 11, for I know the plans you have for me not to harm me, but to prosper me, to give me a hope and a future. My pastor Darren recently at Garden, he's doing like a Bible study with me and a couple of people and he basically taught me, I'm obsessed with like anti-prosperity gospel. Like it's just like, I feel like it's the message of my life. Darren was telling me that everybody takes Jeremiah 29, 11 out of context, and they use it. They don't know the full context, which is,

and I don't remember exactly what he said, but I'm sure you know where the Lord wasn't speaking, I'm giving you favor in this situation. He actually was giving a blessing that would skip over the person he was talking to to the next generation. And he basically was talking about how like the favor that God is offering is oftentimes like something people wouldn't choose because it doesn't look like the instant gratification that they're looking for.

No, I mean, the whole generation, I'm thinking, do you understand that we all want to be Joseph second in charge of Egypt? I'm like, you do realize that at 17 he got the dream and then he was sold into slavery by his brother. Imagine the betrayal, the pain, the family. I rescued the victims of slavery. So I'm like, imagine that. And he's not let out of prison until he's 30. And then he's not over his brothers. He doesn't see them again until he's 37. So from the dream at 17 to the fulfillment at 37, he has been in a pit and in prison and it was 20 years.

And we forget that, or David is anointed in, you know, 1 Samuel chapter 16 to be king over Israel, but he's not appointed until 2 Samuel chapter 5. It's 20 years and 20 chapters. He was 17 and 37, and most of that time he was being chased by Saul and tried to be killed. So I'm trying to say to everyone, this is why this sort of like, I'm scrolling. Man, I want to do, and I'm like, that's not even ministry. That's not even about the Lord. That's about you. We don't use Jesus to do what we want to do. That is really dangerous. It is really dangerous because at the core of it is us, not the will and the purpose of God. As I just went around all of these countries and found believers, you're age and younger,

that they're giving their lives for the gospel, no one will ever know their name. No one will ever know, but heaven records it, God knows. And if you don't remember that this is all about an eternal purpose, not temporal gratification. This is not like we're building our career path and we're using Jesus as kind of a leverage for my life to go forward. we're laying down our lives, denying ourselves, taking up our cross and following Him. That's the gospel. That's discipleship. Thank you. That was so good. I am overwhelmed. I am wrecked right now.

I'm wrecked. You're amazing. Yeah, I think, did you want to ask a question? Well, yeah, could you, I just wanted you to talk a little bit about purpose because, you know, we all want purpose and people are like, I don't know what to do, what do I, could you just talk a little bit about purpose? I know this is one of your really good things because you have so many things on Instagram that I have screenshotted that I go back to. I think because I've had to fight so hard to understand it. And again, I want to go back to Ephesians 2 verse 10 because to me that is the purpose verse. So purpose isn't about just what I want to do. Now, does God give us gifts and talents? Yes. Are they more

than likely going to be woven into the story of our lives? But ultimately our purpose here on earth is to glorify God. That is our purpose, however, that is outworked. But Ephesians 2.10 says, we are his workmanship. So Ephesians 2.8, we're saved by grace through faith, not works, lest any man should boast. Of course, we are saved by the grace of God through faith, that's it. But it goes on, 2.8, he's saved by grace through faith. But then 2.10 says, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, so what are we created for? For good works, so okay, that He prepared beforehand in eternity that we should walk out.

So you go, okay, I'm saved by grace through faith for good works that God prepared before I ever got to the planet. There was stuff that God had earmarked with my name on it for me to do. That's the thing I want to do, whatever that is. Now the enemy, like in my life, sent an assignment to try to still kill and destroy that. And many times he succeeds. People just never rise above what happens to them. But did God, do I believe that part of the good works that God had beforehand,

prepared for me in eternity, was helping to rescue the victims of human trafficking? Yes. Being married to Nick? Yes. You know, raising my daughters? Yes, proclaiming the gospel and seeing people set free and seeing them fulfill their God-given purpose, yes. Does it look different? Like today, is that outworked sitting on a podcast with you? Yes. When I was in Bulgaria, was it sitting in the new houses we built for the families that were literally the know, literally the Roma communities that were living on the streets and the government bulldozed all their houses down and so we built it. Yes, did it look like that? Yes. When I sit in our aftercare facilities with the victims of human trafficking, yes, when I'm sitting in the courthouse and we're prosecuting, you know,

our lawyers are prosecuting a trafficker to put him away to make sure he won't do it. So what I'm saying is, when you get too caught up in the detail of what it needs to look like, you're going to miss your purpose. Because your purpose, in different seasons, it looks different ways. And I've never really been caught up with the task. I've always been on purpose when nobody knew me. When I'm, if I wasn't, I'd be a Trader Joe's packing shelves leading the people to Jesus next to me. I'd be on purpose. Like I'm here to lead people to Jesus, to be salt and light. Anybody would tell you that. Like I just, it's, I wake up and it's not, it's not a career. Because if you think of it as a career, you think everything's

got to go up and to the right, measured as the world would measure success. So then I'd be obsessed with algorithms. My team will tell you. I mean, I'm not make do I, I wouldn't even know. I'm like, my, my things apparently that do the best of the things when I'm sitting and I feel like I've got a little prophetic word and I'm going to my notes app and I do it. I don't even and I That's my favorite. Well, I would say all over the world. That's what people say to me. It's my favorite.

And I laugh. I'm just like, I could be sitting anywhere. I could be sitting in my car and get inspired, like in the way and get, like not driving, don't panic anyone. I mean, like just when I leave here and sit, it will, I'm not even thinking about, I'm thinking of ministering to people. Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying?

Like so, will I always have a place? Yes. Because ministry is just needs based. Find a need and meet it. place. Yes. Because ministry is just needs based. Find a need and meet it. So while more people are trying to, where they get confused about the purpose thing is they're trying to build a career, not meet a need. So if you think I'm here to meet a need, do the next right thing in front of you and it will come. Like, so at the moment they might see you girls. I would imagine you've inspired a lot of people, but you've got to ask yourself, is that what God called me to do? Or hang on, what are they really doing? They're

telling people about Jesus. So in my world, could I tell people about Jesus? Yes, you probably could. And will you ever have a podcast that, probably not, that does this? Because that's what you're called to do. So the person watching this, I'm going, but in your sphere, only you can do that. But when we associate more value and significance, when we confuse visibility with significance, we have a problem. So we think because something is more visible, it's more significant.

Now this is significant, but no more significant that the person that's being faithful and maybe helping their grandmother go to their doctor's appointment every week faithfully in the name of Jesus. Or picking up their kids in the carpool after school. Or faithfully being integrists at work when everyone else is compromising. Just because that's not visible doesn't mean it's not significant because the thing that everyone forgets, God is not checking my Instagram account today to see how I'm doing. My heart is visible

to God 24 7. So is yours. So is the person that doesn't even have a social media account. So when you think just because the world is scanning our public post to determine how they think we're doing privately, the Lord's not doing that. He's fine. He quite knows how we really are. And the Lord said to, you know, Samuel, right from the beginning, when Samuel thought Eliab was God's chosen next king, and the Lord had picked David, and he said, I don't look at the outside appearance like man does. I look at the heart. And God still does that today in 2025. God's not scrolling. Anybody's Tic Tac. Tic Tac. Tic Tac. Tic Tac. God is not scrolling. And you can tell I'm not on

Tic Tac. So my kids would be horrified. But, you know, he's not looking at our Instagram or Tic Tac to see how we're doing spiritually. That's right. Thank you so much. I'm so happy that you say that because I think it's so, I feel like so often Ari and I come on here and we're like, guys, you don't need a podcast. You don't need a podcast. Trust me, you don't want to be famous. Trust me, you don't want this. And it can probably sound so silly coming from two people with a big podcast sitting here with cameras, but like we try so hard to let them know, know we're telling you. Like the greatest ministry moments that I have had, this is amazing. Totally. One of the greatest moments of my life truly, as I'm sitting here,

we're recording an episode, our amazing producer who's been with us now for two years, who you just met, who God has been chipping away at his heart for two years. He's sitting in that booth all this time, and God is just likeipping away at his heart for two years. He's sitting in that booth all this time and God is just like slowly working in his heart. We have an episode and he literally comes in the room at one point and he's like, I can't believe this. Like, I literally just read what you're talking about this morning. God is speaking to me. So we see him have this like experience and encounter where the Lord is like, we're doing all this sure, but like, He's working right there. And then everybody leaves. We record an amazing episode that

a hundred thousand people are going to watch and that's beautiful and significant. But I get to sit right there with our producer, lead him to the Lord, pray. The tangible presence of God is in this room and it is like the closest to heaven I've probably ever been in my life. And I remember leaving that day calling everybody, probably I know, being like, I've done so many cool things. And still, even after the last two years of our life where we've been blessed beyond belief to do the things we do, it's moments like that. I'm telling you, that's what it comes. And girls, what you've done, and Mark Sayers wrote a book called Platformal Pillars, which is really fantastic. Most of this generation

wants to build a platform. Now, you're being a good steward of it. You're stewarding a platform that God built for you. The only time platform is mentioned in the Bible is in the book of Nehemiah. And the Lord said to Nehemiah, I have given you a platform. So that's what he's done in your life. So he didn't say, go build one. He said, I've given one. And this is what a generation has to understand. We don't get to go and build. If you build it, you got to keep it. Here's my thing, if you put yourself there, you got to keep yourself there. If God puts you there, God will keep you there. So, stewarding is wisdom. You're stewarding wisely what God has given you. That is a very different thing. And it's God that enlarges the place of our territory, not us. I don't have like a marketing plan. How am I going to? God, I put in a structure to be a steward of what God has given me, and I

don't want anything outside of what God hasn't given me. I only have grace for my field. I don't have grace for another field. It's not my goal to be the biggest and the best. At what? I want to be the most faithful at what God's given me. So there's no biggest or best. There's faithfulness. He doesn't say, you know, well done, and biggest and best servant, well done good and faithful servant. Everyone can be faithful. Whether God's given you, he says he gives to each according to his ability. You know, to one he gives one a talent, to one he gives two, to one he gives five. And what you do with what God's given you is what matters. But when you go and try to take what God's never given you, you get into a lot of trouble and your life unravels. And then you think God's let you down, and you end up deconstructing when

God never gave it to you in the first place. So, it's like, you know, it is a dance to go, how do I be a wise steward and a good steward of what the Lord's given me? And to this day, I don't want anything outside of my field. I want what God's given, I want to be a good steward over that. But other than that, I don't build it. But everyone is called to be a pillar in the house of God. And so what we have, and Mark says, I guess this is we have everyone wants to build a platform, no one wants to be a pillar. But if you're a pillar in the house of God, you've always got a job to do in the kingdom. And you always have space. That's so good, Christine. I'm going to watch this back like me too. Is there a time? Yeah, we could go a couple more.

Can I just ask you one more? It just keeps coming up. How do you know if it's from you or if it's from God? Yeah, my big thing is, and I don't think you have to freak out too much, because what happens is people get paralysed because they're like, oh my gosh, what if it's me? And they end up doing nothing. And it's like 20 years later. So here's my deal. I am a big believer.

I'm always going to encourage everyone. Okay, so I mean, we've been a bit full on in this episode, but it's true. What I'm saying to everyone is true. And also, I am the biggest of encourager that sometimes you just gotta step out to find out. So you just course correct quickly. If you go, oops, that was me not God, it is okay. Don't live in guilt, shame and condemn that.

You gotta try some stuff. Nobody gets it right all the time. I just say, if you've got a pure heart, you're gonna quickly go, oops, no, sorry Lord, that really wasn't me. And I am certainly going to be your biggest cheerleader on the side of, okay, have a go. I really am that person. It's not like I don't want to hold people back. You do, you have your checks and balances. So you go through your checklist. Okay. Do I think this is the Lord? Am I going to check it with a couple of people that I really trust? So you do that, that's like your basic 101.

Once, if you haven't done that, I would say start there. But if you, once you've done that, and you're still like, I'm just not sure, I'm like, have a go. And you quickly know if there's, if it's the Lord or not. Right. And so I, and I think if people are following you, they obviously want the real deal Christianity.

So they're probably gonna err too much on the side of holding back. So I'm like, have a go. I really want to encourage people to have a go. How would you describe grace, like when God has graced you to do something, when there's grace on something versus when there's not? Because I think what I've run into is like, I never want to confuse something being difficult or hard for there not being grace on it. Totally.

And it's a great question because, you know, the divine enablement, grace is not just forgiveness of sin, but it's a supernatural divine enablement to do what you otherwise could not do. So you have to understand our calling, so this is how I know I'm called, okay, so to do what I'm doing. I can't do it myself. Number one, even physically, I'm 59 years old, I'm going to be police and presence, you know, I'm going to be 59. Me to be able to do, to be on the road in as many countries in a year with a fresh word, with, you know, fire, helping to run a global anti-trafficking

organization, doing the things that I do. There's not a natural, naturally, it doesn't really matter how gifted or talented I am, to do what I do, I actually need God. I need the Holy Spirit to do what I do. And that's what true calling is. God has made sure woven into our calling is our inability to do our calling without him. Yeah. So it doesn't matter how gifted you are, how talented you are, how much money you've got, how connected you are. If you're really in the God zone, you haven't got enough to do what you're doing. So this is why I laugh and I go to people, I know I shouldn't be doing, you don't have to

tell me I shouldn't be doing this. I know I'm not gifted enough, talented enough, resourced enough. I know I'm not. That's why people will look at my life and go, only God. I know that because that's how God gets the glory, that there is a life and how I'm graced. God didn't call me to do this and for my marriage to be a mess, for my daughters to be a mess. So you know you're at a rhythm and you're pushing in your flesh. So for me, the fact that by God's grace, not perfect but awesome is 29 years of marriage. My daughters, not perfect but fantastic and my best buddies in the world and they love the Lord and they love us and they want to be around us and the things of God. You know, to me that's all a really good sign that there's a grace, that I was a grace to be a wife and to be a mother. You know, the fact that by and large,

we've got a healthy team and staff and it's large, so of course there's always issues, but by and large, you go, okay, there's a grace on it, where there's a grace on us doing. And then you see the results in like, you know, there are seasons, man, you've got to double down and dig in. There's no doubt about it. But at the end of the day, you just know there's this, I call it like a divine enablement and oil, the oil of the Holy Spirit, which to me is very important because often people say, how do you do your life? You know, the big question, marriage, motherhood, ministry, you know. And I'm like, to me, my life is, it's not like these compartments. It's like a wheel. And so, you have a wheel and every wheel's got a lot of spokes, if you think of a bike wheel, you know, it's got a lot of spokes. And then it's got a hub. So, my life's really not complicated. I get

up every day and I aim for the hub. The hub is Jesus. But for that hub and that wheel to spin, it needs oil. So while the oil of the Holy Spirit's keeping that thing spinning, do you not think then in my quiet time, as I'm reflecting now when I drive home for an hour and a half, and me and the Lord, I'm in the car, that He's not going to say, you know, Chris, one of your kids needs this attention. One of your officers needs this thing. So it's like that oil, as long as I'm aiming for Jesus and I've got that oil daily saturating my life, the thing spins and I will know, you know what, I need a little bit of attention here. I need to put a bit more attention here. This is a little bit out of whack here, but it's that divine

enablement. I don't know, you can't do this without the Holy Spirit. There's a reason why before Jesus sent, birthed the church and sent us out into the world. So you better wait, because you're going to need to be dosed in the Holy Ghost big time before you go out and do it. That's good. That's good. That's really good. That's good. How would you tell people right now who are watching how to get filled with the Holy Spirit? Yeah, I mean, I love that question. Here is the best, I think, thing to say in this moment is why don't you, for anyone watching this that's not even thought about this, start in the most simple of ways and then you can do a whole episode on all of this, but of asking God for the desire to want more.

Because some people even hear this, Holy Spirit, or they've heard the term Holy Ghost, they're freaking out because they're thinking of Casper the Ghost. So they're like, oh my gosh, I don't want a ghost. I don't want a ghost. But we serve a triune God, Father, Son, Spirit. One God, three parts, you know, the Father God. And a lot of us are okay, Father God, okay, Jesus the Son. But then we get to the Holy Spirit, we're like, I don't really know what, is it like Casper the Ghost? Is this like a spirit? And you know, like we're

in Hollywood, so like, what kind of spirit are we talking about? And so people like are thinking crystals, meditation. Okay. So I'm going to start with, understand that we have one God. He's a triune God, Father, Son and Spirit. And when the church was birthed and the Holy Spirit came, and then we are to be filled, and Ephesians says, be being filled every day with the Spirit of God. I want people to know why there's this languishing, for want of a better phrase, we're not well oiled. We have forgotten this one part of the Trinity because we're a bit scared, we don't understand. And especially if you come from traditional church, you kind of think to the doxology in the name of the Father-Son spirit, you know? It's like this thing you add on to the end. But he's a person. He is my best friend.

He's like, you're seeing the glint in my eye, because now it's like, you know, when you're like, let's talk about him. You know, I wake up in my morning with good morning, Holy Spirit. He's like my, and so I, as a start to your viewers is saying, okay, well, you're not Casper the Ghost and you're not this freak out. Okay, help me want more of you. I think that's the start. I started with, you know, 1990 with the phrase and, you know, we talk about Michael and Jess Koulianis and Jess's dad wrote a book, Good Morning Holy Spirit. And it was the start for me with Good Morning Holy Spirit. It was the beginning of a relationship that here I am 30 something years later with my best friend, the Holy Spirit of God and

my divine enablement and everything from I love you Holy Spirit to help me Holy Spirit. I need you Holy Spirit. It's my first thing. I feel the Lord. Yeah. The Holy Spirit is, I grew up in like a Catholic, both of us grew up in a Catholic kind of upbringing, and I didn't know who the Holy Spirit was whatsoever. My mom and I, I got sober when I was 23, and my mom has always loved Jesus, and my mom found herself, like, she would just meet people and go to meetings, and I'd go with her, and we'd go herself, like, she would just meet people and go to meetings and I'd go with her and we'd go to these, like, African prophet meetings, these, like, Pakistani prophet meetings, like, we're Catholic, like, we don't know what we're...

Where did you grow up from? So, I'm Albanian. Okay. And, yeah, my mom... We're cousins. Albania and Greece. No, we're the same. You have to come because Thessaloniki is where we started A21 and we have so many Albanian

girls. Anyway, keep going. I want to go so badly. No, I started A21 and we have so many Albanian girls. Anyway, I want to go so badly. No, no, no. I know she was. I'm sorry. We're having a moment. I didn't know. Yeah. So I grow. So I love you even more now. My mentor, his name is Socrates. He's a Greek man. He's Greek Orthodox. You have to meet him. He like changed my life. He discipled me and led me to Jesus, prayed for me to get sober all these months. Crazy story. Where was I? Oh yeah, so my mom and I, we'd literally get, we'd watch people get slain in the Spirit, lay out. We had no idea what we were seeing. This did not happen at Mass on Sunday. No, no, it did not happen at Mass, but we loved it. And we were so open to it, and we were never afraid. And so, yeah, we're just... My spiritual formation was this, just seeing powerful moves of God and just seeing

the Holy Spirit disrupt a room, and it looks kind of weird sometimes, and it doesn't make any sense. And yeah, I think we try so hard to let people know the Holy Spirit is a person who speaks, and the whole point is that we talk to Him all day long, literally all day long. That's what relationship with Jesus is. It's communing, fellowship with the Holy Spirit all day. What has changed my life is, like, literally just asking the Holy Spirit questions, and He'll respond somehow. He probably drops it into my spirit. At some point, He's going to give me the answer, but I'll just ask Him questions all day. And we always try to tell people the Holy Spirit loves to talk about Jesus.

Yes, He does. Ask him questions about Jesus and he'll answer. Ask him. It's often so hard to understand this book, so ask him. Before I prepare any sermon, I'm like, Holy Spirit, you've got to help me to understand what is it that you'll say. He guides us into all truth. He shows us all things. He's our comforter. He's our helper. I mean, once you meet Holy Spirit, that's it. I love it. I just love you.

You're amazing. You know, I just want to say today that the same Jesus that stepped into the life of this unnamed, unwanted, abused, adopted girl from the back of Sydney, Australia, that same Jesus that stepped into the life of this unnamed, unwanted, abused, adopted girl from the back of Sydney, Australia, that same Jesus is right here right now. And He is able to give you forgiveness for all of your past, a brand new life today and a hope for the future. You know, maybe you just tuned in, you look over something else and you accidentally tuned in. You're not here by accident. You're here in the divine timing, plan and purpose of God. He drew you to this program because He loves you. You were created by God for a relationship with God and it's Jesus that

connects us to God and it's Jesus that connects us to the grace of God. Maybe you once walked with God, but if you're honest today, you've been away from Him, cold in your heart, maybe even backslidden today. I want to encourage you to stop running from Him. Come home to Him. Make your peace with Him and put Jesus Christ first in your life. I'm going to pray a prayer. And if you want to say these words after me to receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, I just want you to say them, Dear Jesus, I'm sorry that I've been living my life my own way and ignoring you. I'm sorry that I've sinned against you. And I ask today that you would forgive me for all of my sins, that you would give me a fresh start

today and a hope for the future. I want to be a Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ every single day for the rest of my life. Jesus, I receive your forgiveness. I receive your love. I receive your grace. Thank you. Amen.

Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Jesus. If you just gave your life to Jesus for the very first time, we wanna say Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Jesus. If you just gave your life to Jesus for the very first time, we want to say congratulations. We love you and we're so happy that you're here. Thank you, Christine. I love you girls. Thank you so much.

Seriously, I'm not even joking. You were awesome. Thank you. What a beautiful, beautiful episode. All right, guys, may the Lord bless you and Thank you. What a beautiful, beautiful episode. All right, guys, may the Lord bless you and keep you. May He make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you. May He turn His face towards you and give you peace.

Shalom, shalom. Shalom, shalom. Amen and amen. Amen and amen. Bless us.