Girls Gone Bible - Working Through Brokenness | Girls Gone Bible

Episode Date: February 21, 2025

Hiiii GGB!   In this episode, we journeyed through what it’s like to work through brokenness and it took us all over the place. The secret place, father wounds, dealing with the past / shame, how to deal with conflict in a way that leads to connection. And we had lots of tears, but what’s new!   we love you SO much. Jesus loves you more. -Ang & Ari   JOIN US ON GGB+ 🥹❤️ https://ggb.supportingcast.fm   WE ARE ON THE OFFICIAL GIRLS GONE BIBLE LIVE TOUR! www.girlsgonebible.com/tour for the first batch of cities we have locked in :) WE LOVE YOU AND CANNOT WAIT TO SEE YOU!

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Oh, it feels like a ggb plus because we're over here. I like it over here. I like it over here. I like it over here. Hi, I'm Ange. And I'm Ari. And this is Girls Gone Bible. We are a faith-based podcast where we talk all things, spirituality, mental health,

everything to do with your everyday life, whatever problems may arise, and we like to put theological context around it because we love Jesus here, we love the Bible. You guys, I am so, so down bad. What's up, little chicken bad. What's up little chicky? What's up? So tell everyone what's wrong.

Yeah, so there is some sort of devilish flu going around and it hit me hard. And I'm not doing so well but we overcome and we'll be okay I'm like I'm not one truly I mean you might think I'm one to over spiritualize things but I try not to but this is the first thing in a long time where I'm like I genuinely feel so attacked. Like attacked, attacked. I've never been sick like this in my life. The fever that I've had consistently for days, and I just, I do, I get attacked through getting sick a lot because it just, I am like such a 100% go all the way,

all the time, I'm like type A, don't ever stop. And I really feel like, I feel like it's, my heart is in full surrender. I'm just like, I feel like God is speaking so clearly and he's like, I'm not asking you to move as fast as you are. I know. It's like you have to relax.

You really don't stop. I know, but I love it like that. I like living like that. I do too, but I don't know. It's too much. It's too much. I like being on the go too, but even I ain't going like you, honey. I know.

My body is, it's done. I have to take care of myself. I'm going to burn out. If I don't relax. And I mean, we're gonna be on tour for the next year. So we better figure out how to take care of ourselves. We better. How are you, A? Ah. Ah.

After the past couple shows, I was, I think I said to you guys, I was dealing with such a lack of joy for a very long time. And I feel like I have been so persistent of being like, Jesus, I just, I'm praying for joy. I really want nothing more than joy. And He really gave me back my joy. I, we got off the, the last show was Nashville, and we both looked at each other and we felt so filled in our hearts. And it was just a happiness

that I had been praying about for a while. So I'm just feeling really good. But life is just like, life is like this, you know? And that's why you just can't, you can't get too down. You just have to know that it's gonna be like this and you just have to ride it. Ride it with Jesus. 100%.

This past weekend of tour was probably our greatest breakthrough yet. I mean, you guys, Ari and I had the most special weekend probably of our lives. Tour is the greatest thing that we've ever done and I'm actually going to talk about tour a little bit today just because it's connected to our topic but it's the greatest thing we've ever done and it's obviously the most challenging thing we've ever done. I mean two girls who

have barely ever been to church go up and have revival nights, and people see Tor. And like, every single person who comes to a GGB show, like, we can't even call them shows. That's not what they are. They're meetings. They're like nights for people to encounter Jesus. And everyone goes, this is not what I expected. Like, we give everything. We give everything. We preach the Word of God. Like we just like really, really, really, really, really create a space for Jesus to come. And we've never done anything like that before. And it is so insane on our hearts and on our spirits. And I just think it brings up so many insecurities.

I know for me and for you too, you're up there and you're just battling. It's so beautiful and we're so present and then afterwards you just battle so many insecurities. I am dealing with things now that I didn't know were in me until we started Tor. Insecurities, fears, feelings of unworthiness. There were things that Tor, like God is just, He's doing just as much in us as He is through us. There's so much that Tor is bringing up. And I just feel like this weekend was such a major breakthrough for both of us where we were just happy and we were confident and we didn't overthink and we didn't feel like we needed to be anything. We were like, this

is us, this is what we have, take it or leave it. Is God pleased? Okay, then great. I just had been battling in my mind before the Nashville show. And I wasn't really telling Angela, but I was just like really in my head. I was like having these battling thoughts. I'm like, am I gonna be okay on there? Is everything gonna be okay? And all of a sudden Angela comes up to me, she looks me in my eyes, she goes,

hey, by the way, you're gonna have a barrier around your mind when you get on stage. You're not gonna have any thoughts. The devil won't even be able to come close to you. And I look at her and I go, okay. She said, I receive it in faith. But that's what it is, right? It's like when you keep, when you just like have that little bit of faith of like, I know I can't feel you

and I know these thoughts, but I have faith that you will show up and you will be with me. There he is. It's like, it's like when Peter was in the storm. You just have to keep your eyes on him. Don't look other ways. He will show up. Amen.

That's so good. What my favorite, I think one of my major moments of breakthrough this past weekend was like just the significance of the secret place, which I already like. I know the significance of the secret place, but I think sometimes, like, you know, we've heard pastors and people who are older be like,

we've heard people that are older say, I still seek God today like I did when I was 20, and I hope that I do even more when I'm 80. And we've also met older people who have said things like, I read the whole thing, I don't need to read it again. You know what I mean? And like, I never neglect the secret place, but there is a temptation when you have history with God to feel like you can rely on your history. And you can in certain instances, like when you don't feel God or you feel like you you're in the wilderness, or you feel like you can't see Him, you can look back on your history and be like,

okay, but this is what I know about Him. But you can't rely on yesterday's secret place for today. You know? Explain that. So the secret place, like for example, you slept at my house last night, and we were both having quiet time this morning, and I went around the corner, and I was sitting,

and I like gave you your space, and we loved praying together and everything, but the secret place is like the secret place where it's just you and Jesus, and it's a time where you meet Jesus, and nothing supernatural or crazy has to happen, but it's a time that's dedicated to being alone with God. And both days, because I was sick both days, I didn't leave my hotel room.

I didn't go out. We didn't go get our hair done. We didn't do anything. So I spent three, four hours with Jesus in those uninterrupted, undisturbed time with Jesus. And I spent like three, four hours and I'm just communing with him. I'm sitting in silence, I'm reading a little bit, I'm marching around worshiping, I'm sitting again, I'm replaying things in my head, I'm preaching in my head, but like I'm just continually communing with him.

He would take me on little journeys here and there. And then when I went on stage both times, I knew that I am not calling on Jesus when I get to the stage. But everything that is coming out of me is pouring out from my secret place in the day. And I know that, but sometimes like spending three, four hours with Jesus, it just sounds excessive, it sounds religious. And for me, I'm just like, that's how I thrive. Like hours of sitting there, and you might not even know what's happening,

but he is literally filling you head to toe. You don't need to pray the whole time, but it's this designated time where you just give him everything. You sit in silence, pray the whole time, but it's this designated time where you just give Him everything. You sit in silence. You do nothing. You just hang out. You hang out. And so I have never felt stronger, more confident, more powerful, more protected in my own mind than, you know, times where I'm like, oh, I know He's with me. Yeah. Well, you think about after like, Jesus would do everything he did.

He'd go and help and serve and pour and pour into the swan. And then what did he do right after? He always went into the secret place. Totally, yeah. And like, this is for like everyone, like mothers. This is for people who are exhausted. Like if Jesus had to do that, how much more do we need to get poured into? It's like, that is how we get filled, by being in the secret place.

And it doesn't have to be this extravagant thing, I know, even when we were in our hotel room. I was like, okay, where are you, where are you? But I'm like, I realize after that night, cause you know when you like close your eyes and he kind of takes you through things, I realized like laying there tired, like barely hanging on from the couple nights before after pouring out that me just laying there and just talking to him was enough.

That was him pouring into me. And so yeah, I think a lot of us just feel like, I don't feel this crazy thing, like, where is he? I'm not, and that's just not what it is. And he's, again, like, he's not this person who's going to send you these crazy encounters. It's just sitting there in peace with him and listening to worship music. It could be as simple as that. I, Bryce said something really, really significant that hit me. He said, he was, he realized he was treating Jesus as this dopamine hit. And I've done that before where I know what it's like to encounter God. I know what it's like to be touched by God.

I know what it's like to feel like Jesus walked in the room. And you become like addicted to that and you realize like it's like to feel like Jesus walked in the room. And you become addicted to that and you realize you're trying to evoke something that gives you this feeling of power instead of just wanting to spend time with Jesus. And what I realized more than anything is being in the presence of God doesn't mean that something crazy has to happen,

but it's continuously inviting in and saying things like, fill me with your love, fill me with your joy, wash me in your peace, wash me in your loving kindness, fill me with your spirit, and just like continually inviting him in, and like he does a supernatural work,

but the secret place is what you have to establish. It has to be this time of like, buy phone, buy people. You don't let your phone anywhere near you. You don't let anybody have access to you in this moment. And like, and you just don't leave. You have to linger and you have to stay. So anyways, my whole point in bringing that up was that the secret places, it's what I'm most passionate about because it's where we find everything that we need. And try it.

If you think, if you're someone that's sitting there being like, well, I already read it and I already have them with me. Well, why don't you try it? Why don't you try changing up your routine and spending that whatever hours with him in the morning and then try it with hours. Yeah, start with an hour to whatever,

whatever you feel, but you know, it's not about hours, it's just about spending that time because it makes a massive difference. And I've done it. I've done it when I woke up and I didn't spend that time. And my day is chaotic, my mind is everywhere. It's like to think, to be so ignorant, to think we can go through the day without spending time with him is like, we're robbing ourselves.

Totally. And it's not like, okay, last thing we'll say on this, and maybe God just wanted us to talk about this. It's not about a checklist. It's not about, read this and we're good. It's about wanting to know Jesus more and it's about wanting to spend time. Like when you, scripture says like you search the scriptures for me, like when you read the Bible, it's like you're looking for Jesus and you're looking to know him better. It's not just like, oh, I'm gonna read this

because it makes me feel better and I'll have a good day, which is true. And like, if that's all you have to give, that's all you have to give. But it's like, I read this because I want to know you. This is us spending time together. This is me hearing from you. So just be wary of making things a checklist

and like, oh, did this, now we're good. It's like, you just, he wants more than that. He loves you so much. He wants everything. And that's how he speaks to us. Yeah. I just thought about the time when I was feeling so much shame about sin, and I just was like,

I just feel awful. And I just, would you comfort me in your love? And I opened the Bible, and the first thing I looked down at the Bible, and it says, if I kept a record of your sins, who could stand? And I just start, like, these are the things that he does through his word. This is how he speaks to us. So if you feel like I don't know where you are,

it's in his word. Like, that's how he speaks to us every single day. So it's just such a gift. Thank you, Jesus. You know what? We had a whole episode planned. Yeah, know what, we had a whole episode planned. Yeah, we did. We had a whole episode planned,

but sometimes God directs it in a different way. How do you feel like you're overcoming these days? Let's just get into your heart. You know Angela's been, you know Angela's been, are you feeling seen? She's been, you know Angela's been, are you feeling seen? She's been on a very, I went to two things of therapy, so now, I can't stop talking, shut up about period.

We've had a revelation that I'm vulnerable, but I'm also extremely avoidant. We've realized Ari is way more avoidant than we had any idea, and I'm way less avoidant than, but that's also how it is sometimes where if one person is avoidant, the other one, like, there's always one. And my dad raised me, and so when I have to go, I don't know, it's so weird. Well, my mom raised me, and my mom is like, my mom is tough as nails. Like she's incredibly emotional and she's,

she's like the sweetest woman in the world but she's the toughest person I've ever met in my life. Like it's, I don't know how she does it but Albanian women are like that. Like they're extremely, extremely tough and I used to be like that. I was so tough my whole, like you know, I was so tough. I was so tough, my whole, like, you know, I was so tough. I was so this, I was like kind and sweet and affectionate,

but this like hard exterior that anytime I felt unsafe, like I would just shell up and like buy, everybody buy. And just God is like, nope, not anymore. And I just feel like I've never been so vulnerable and exposed and like hard on my sleeve. It's a beautiful thing. I am. So I was saying.

I'm, yeah, my dad is so sensitive, but he will always be like, oh, it's fine, you're a good kid, let's get over it. It's fine. It's like, yeah, you're fine. Well, that's how we'll be... Ari and I have such similar... It's like, actually, it's insane. I was thinking about this in the car. You don't have a foreign family, but we're both East Coast family, like Albanians on

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Okay, how's your heart? Well, what did you ask? How's my heart? I asked how's your heart? Yeah, how's your heart? Good. I made an appointment, I don't know if I said this on here, with an eating disorder specialist. Yeah, I made an appointment with an eating disorder specialist, which is really kind

of exciting, which is so interesting. I'm actually really excited. I was talking to her and I was just telling her a little bit about myself and my story and she figures that everything is connected to like one or two traumatic events that have happened in my life. Really? Yeah, she thinks that like all of it is wrapped up in like one or two moments from childhood.

And she thinks if we can get to the root of that, we can literally just like unravel everything. Really? Yeah, it's not so crazy. What does the process look like for that? I don't know, we haven't started. But we've just gotten a couple conversations in. But I will say it has opened me up emotionally that every five seconds I ask Ari, hey, you want to check in?

That's what she says. You know, I'm like. Ari hasn't had a heart tended to like this her entire life. She is so uncomfortable. Yes, can you tell them? That's what she says. Ari hasn't had a heart tended to like this her entire life. She is so uncomfortable. Yes, can you tell them? That's what it is. It's not that I'm avoiding. I've never had this before. I'm like, why am I? Is something wrong? I'm like, I'm good. It's so...

Do you want to check in? Let's do a heart check in. Do you want to check in? What's your heart? So how's your heart other than that? Um... Well, a lot's happening in my heart. A lot, a lot, a lot. I think... Yeah, I'm just the most vulnerable that I've ever been. I am...

Probably coming up against... Like, past stuff a lot. That's coming up a lot. Maybe we'll do a whole episode on that. It's things that I'm still processing through, so probably not fully ready to talk about it yet. I have a thing where you're really good about coming on in the moment, being like, this is everything I'm feeling and I just have I'm like so different in the way that I approach things. I like in my mind it's like and I just I wish I could be more like you in that way I really

do because you're you're just like here it is and it's okay if I don't have it figured out my brain is like I have to have it figured out otherwise there's no meaning to it and nothing good can come of it. Yeah, I think I've been so radically victim mentality my whole life, which is a good thing. Victim mentality is the worst thing you can do for yourself if you yield to the victim voice that speaks in your head, you are giving into lies, like you really are, because we're not victims. But I think for a long time I've gaslit myself

into being like, you can't be a victim, you can't be a victim, you can't be a victim. And I feel like God is inviting me into a really sweet season of just being like, like you're not a victim. You're not a victim if you choose to, you know, lean into things that have gone wrong or have hurt. So, yeah, I think they're... It's unbelievable watching you because I always felt like I was too vulnerable when I first met you

because all I wanted to do was talk. And now this girl is helping me. It's so funny how in relationships and friendships, roles can reverse. Yeah, I know. It's so crazy. I think, can you just text her and tell her that we're OK? Sorry, Angie's mom?

It's my mom. Call, answer maybe. [? phone rings.?] Oh my god. Hi, mom. We're filming the episode. Everyone can hear you, but I love you. We're good. Okay? Oh, I love you too. Thank you. Thank you for answering. Okay. I love you. I love you, ma.

Bye, Shwet. Bye, ma. But yeah, it's like so weird. It's just a weird time. It's a beautiful time. Does anybody else feel that way? It's a beautiful time. I'm happier than ever. I really am. And I'm also just like, I don't know.

Like I don't know. It's the best time of my entire life. And yeah, I just, there's like so many things on my heart and I'm sick too, so you get ready for the floodgates. But it's just like- Mostly you're dealing with shame right now. Yeah, I'm dealing with shame. I'm dealing just like with past stuff.

I'm like, yeah think I'm dealing with stuff of like I guess it's weird that part of me is like, thank you, part of me is like, it's so weird that I've never, you realize that so much of like why you do the things you do is connected to just like your whole life and your childhood. I think what weighs on me a lot is like just like a lack of probably a father's voice. And yeah, I've gone my whole life being able to like just gaslight myself into being like nothing bad has ever happened to you. It's all your fault. Like I remember even the way I used to tell my testimony, I would be like, it was me, I was such a rebellious kid, like, I was a bad kid, and I'm just like, why would I talk about myself like that? You know?

Like, you're just... You know what's crazy? When you would always say that, I would look at you and be like, I know you weren't. I don't know, I would like... I got, I was like, beat her. I would look at you and be like, I know you weren't. I go, I was like, Peter. I was like, a ball. You were like, ball. I would say I was like Peter.

And like, yeah, sure I was repulsed, but it's just like, it's, I guess sometimes I'm just, my inability to even allow myself permission to Yeah feel pain and It comes to a point I think where you can't like

Run from it anymore and God is just taking I'm doing like rapid rapid healing I'm doing rapid, rapid healing so quickly. And part of me is like, I don't know, I always think he's getting me ready to have kids. There's a lot I have to, I wanna have kids, obviously, really badly. And there's just a lot that needs to be addressed and healed. But yeah, just that lack of a father's voice,

which I've never talked about, and it just like, changes everything. It affects everything. And, yeah, I'm just grateful that Jesus is like helping me discover like, like these things are my fault.

You know? Like I didn't choose to go the way that I did or you know, like just do the best you can, you know? Just do the best you can, you know? Anyways, so this is me not having answers to anything except Like I said before he heals where he cuts he cuts you first I And then I think sometimes like, I think especially being around somebody like Christian families and stuff and Christian people.

And I love, like it's so beautiful and it's so inspirational. But like I wasn't kidding when I said like we grieve. And I love where I come from, I love. My family's the greatest, like the best, the best, the best. But then like when you don't have, sometimes when you realize like you're just fighting a different battle, like you're fighting an uphill battle.

And yeah, so I say all this to say that, like if you're somebody who blames yourself for everything Like we just have to be released from that because none of us like choose to go the wrong path or you know be away that we shouldn't be just out of nothing like It's all out of pain it's all out of brokenness. And yeah, and he was touching my heart. I know, I know.

It's like you go, we've, it's like so weird going around these, just being in the Christian world and being around all these families and it's like you can't help but compare or what is it? You can't help but like. And it's so confrontational of what you don't have. And then you just, yeah, and you just had so many moments of like feeling less than of like being like, I wish I could be like that.

Totally, 100%. Yeah. Yeah, that's been one of the biggest battles, I think, for us both. Totally. We almost feel like we don't belong. Yeah, I'm like, I know. Yeah, and I, yeah.

I think what was really, I told you this the other day, and maybe I'll take this part out, but I was like, it was after our Nashville show, and we had so many friends and so many people and pastors, you know, and so many, I had a few people, pastors that came out to the show, and I just just value their opinion like it's God. You know, that's blasphemy, so not really, but I just value their opinion so much. And John has noticed, he's like you have this paradigm of the man of God complex. Like you care so much what men of God, greats in the faith like pastors what

You know cuz I'm always like if Michael Koulianos validates Girls Gone Bible like I'm good Like we've we've made it and John's always like you don't need Michael Koulianos to validate Girls Gone Bible to know that what you do is significant and important and I'm so sorry, I'm like... And then when we were at the show the other day, one of our friends, Will Hart, who is like, I respect him so, so much. And so having him come,

the fact that he would even come meant the world to me. And then he was just like encouraging me afterwards. And John told me on the plane home with tears in his eyes. He was like, he was like, I'm watching you get feedback and encouragement from Will Hart and I see how much it means to you and I see you're looking for a father's voice. I see you looking for a dad's voice. Like I see you looking for a dad's voice. And he's like, and that's why you have this complex

of like needing. And it's just like, it's just so crazy. And you have that with Jesus. I know. He loves you so much. I know. If you only understood the love he has for you. I know. If you only understood the love he has for you. I know.

Yeah. But, you too. I'm so proud of you. I love you. It's amazing, you guys. You don't understand. Just,

I don't know, it's like seeing my daughter grow. Not my daughter, but like my sister. I don't know, it's miraculous, the growth I've seen in you in a year. Sometimes I don't know who I'm looking at. Just even this moment, you know, we're never able to open up like this. It was always so a struggle for you. And it's just, I could just spend this whole episode

just listening to you talk because, I don't know, I'm just really so pleased to be your best friend. I'm so happy to be your best friend. I really am. Just so, I'm so, so blessed to be your best friend. I'm so happy to be your best friend. I really am. I'm so so blessed to to be your best friend. You've changed my life. You've changed mine. You're helping me now. Isn't that funny? So it's unbelievable. Unbelievable. Wait, can we just?

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for 50% off your first order plus free shipping. Okay, so obviously Ari and I are best friends in the whole world. We're sisters, we're business partners, we're ministry partners, we do everything together. Do we get into it a little bit once in a while? Don't forget that we're from the East Coast too. We also didn't grow up Christian, so it was a constant battle between the old, the BCS and the saved us. And so there's nothing funnier than we were, we were in a little tiff recently.

And like the beautiful thing about Ari and I is, you know, we, we might argue once it's never about anything. By the way, it's never about anything, by the way, it's never about anything serious. The beautiful thing about us is there's never been one fundamental disproportion or issue. Like, it's never been like something fundamentally was wrong and we are misaligned or like, we've never not agreed on anything ministry-wise,

even down to like the small. It's like sister stuff. Like, you know when you guys won't talk for two weeks because she took your pants out of the closet. No, well, yeah, yeah. That's probably why. And then we'll have to talk it out. Well, you took the pants.

My dad calls and goes, what are you two doing? You idiots. Well, and so now I've become this overly emotional, like whatever. And so, and Ari's just like fully avoided half the time. And so we're like arguing something out and then it gets heated for a second. We start, whatever, Ari starts getting

all her stuff together and I'm like, all right, fine, go. All right, would you just? No, you know what, sit down, sit down. I take her stuff and I'm like, you're sitting down until we figure this out. We're sitting on opposite sides of the couch. We're not having it. And then all of a sudden, out of nowhere,

we're holding hands, telling each other we would die without. I mean, it is. But- Why can't we film it? I know. It is gold. I know because I know so many of you guys

must go through this. Yeah. And then the easy way out is to say, you know what? I have to set boundaries. And that- I know, thank you for saying that. Yeah, and that is what I believe is, it's so far from the truth,

but that's what like they say to do. Oh, set boundaries. Oh, take time away. No, work through it. Don't give up on each other. Understand that. I can't even tell you how many phases of my life I've been through.

How I haven't been myself. How I have been nasty and avoided and just said things that weren't of me. Same. Same. Yeah. And it's like, and like same with my mom, same with my dad. And you see families and the kids don't talk to the moms

because they, you know, they disrespected them. Like we go through so much and you know, the only way to have everlasting relationships, friendships, anything is understanding that we're human beings, that we fall short, that we're not perfect. And yeah, it's like you don't give up on each other. I mean, obviously there's circumstances

where it's beyond bad, but. Abuse, cheating, neglect. Yeah, abuse, cheating, these things, but it's like, that was such a beautiful moment that we had. Oh, I love that moment. And like Ari was saying, healthy boundaries are good. Like any therapist would recommend healthy boundaries,

but boundaries that cause disconnection, I think that's where we can get a little model, like boundaries that cause a relationship to be completely surface level. I don't, that's not, I don't know, I don't want that type of relationship in my life, you know? But you and I just like, we just keep going and you keep talking it through and you have to be like disgustingly honest. Disgustingly honest and disgustingly kind.

Yeah, and forgiving. And I know that sometimes you're like, no, they don't deserve it, but you don't understand the reward. Like, what does Scripture say? Turn the other cheek when someone slaps it. Like, that is there for a reason. Because when you truly... That is there for a reason. Because when you truly,

I just had an incident with somebody who, 2012 Ariel would have, wouldn't have taken that talk, but I just, I constantly have the thoughts now of wow, for them to say that means that they are really hurting. They are really not in a good place because I think when I speak like this,

it's because I feel so sad inside. Something isn't right, I'm hurting, I'm broken. It's all a projection. Anytime we act nasty or we come from a place of anger, it's a projection of how we feel. And so, instead of saying, wow, that's how they feel about me, they're treating me bad, think man, something is wrong.

So then it softens your heart and you back off instead of reacting. And then it gives them a chance to think when you don't come back to them, they're like, wait a minute. They have nothing to keep fighting with you about. So then they're able to take a step back and think and process and then say, oh man, what I just did wasn't right. And then you let them come to you.

And that happened to me the other day. I took the high road. I would just suggest, I would suggest you guys I took the high road. I would just suggest, I would suggest you guys always take the high road, even if it's hard. And even if you have that anger inside of you, you just take a step back, you take a deep breath, because it's so rewarding when you don't fight back.

It's the most rewarding thing. And that's how Jesus was. Just like listening, just sitting there listening, being like, I'm so sorry you feel that way. Things like this soften the heart of people. And they're like, wow, I feel heard. And even if it's something that you don't agree with,

really just like, that's what you and I, I feel like we do. We're like, I'm sorry you feel like that. And really listen, don't try to just defend yourself. Because people have a reason why they feel a certain way. And sometimes maybe we are doing something that we don't even realize we're doing. There's been times when Angela has come to me

and told me things that I didn't even realize I was doing. And typically I will have pride and be like, no, I don't do that. No, I'm not like that. But I'm like, wait a minute, let me just hear her out. And what can I do to change it? And how can we work through this? And that's how you have lasting relationships

because guys, friendships are truly, they are everything. They've kept us, they've kept me and you standing. They're everything. And a way to have a lasting friendship is you don't give up on each other. You don't give up and you just, you say this all the time, but you just realize that everybody's broken,

everybody's lost, everybody's struggling. And you know, again, if somebody's hurting you or is really bad, or it's just like really, really bad for you to be in that, like that is not, we're not telling you to stay in those. But it really is about, it's just about commitment. Like you have to commit to things, you have to commit to people.

Like you and I are committed to each other. So we're committed to hearing each other out, we're committing to growth. John and I's relationship has taught me a lot about that too, where I just have the most grace in my heart. Like it's a supernatural work of Jesus, clearly. Like he's put so much grace in my heart,

so much humility in my heart, to be able to be in the relationship that I am because relationships, the closer they get, the more exposing they become and they expose your weak spots, they expose your brokenness, they expose your flaws and then you have to have the humility to be willing because otherwise that relationship won't ever last or it'll just stay surface. I don't like, I don't want to have surface. It's hard to go deep with people.

Like it really, it hurts to go deeper with people because it begins to expose so much. But it's just so worth it. It's so worth it. I just know for me, for instance, you and I, when I feel heard, when you aren't trying to defend and combat and all this stuff, and even if you feel like you're right, when you sit there and you listen and you're like, okay, that is what completely softens the whole situation. And when you're like, I hear you

and I'm sorry you feel that way, and what can I do to make, I'm telling you, these things, and what can I do to make... Like, I'm telling you, these things, like saying these little things is gonna alter the whole conversation in the situation. And when people feel heard, it diffuses the whole situation. But if you just are in constant defense mode and you have a heart in heart

and you have constant ego and pride, then your heart posture is not in the right place and that's when you really need to sit in a secret place and you need to start reading James. I remember I read, I remember it was, I had read James and it was right before I had an argument and I was in such peace because that scripture just- Let's read a little bit of James. What does it say?

Let's see what James says. I love where this is going. Thank you for telling me that. I think sometimes, I think sometimes if you come to me and tell me something and I don't automatically say sorry, it's because my logical brain starts to analyze the situation and give you reasons as to why you shouldn't feel that way. It's kind of like how guys are actually. Wow, they're so annoying.

I don't want to be like that. That's how they act. They try to put logic as to like, no, this is why you shouldn't feel that way. And all it comes off as is defense and invalidation of feelings. And yeah. Like when you, like when, even when you were upset the other night

and you still were like, wait a minute, no, no, no, sit down, do you know how much that meant to me? I'm telling you, I will never forget that. I really will never forget when you did that the other night because I can't imagine. Yeah, I said, we're gonna get better. And then it ended with us. Oh wait, I'm sorry.

I have to tell, and then it ended with us going. You're like, you know, do you remember this? We go, you go, and like, we're gonna go through things and whatever, and like, whatever, we're gonna go through things. And I go, yeah, but I have really severe abandonment issues. And then I start crying. No, that was actually a beautiful moment.

And then you start crying and you go, "'Cause you're a dad." Listen, when she starts crying, I don't care if she punches me in the face. It's so weird. It's like, you remind me just of like my little sister. I, because my little sister is like my daughter. I know I share that with you guys,

but my little sister, she can do no wrong. Like I've given my, I've put her before myself her whole life, cause she's just everything to me. And to meet someone else that I feel that way with, like I look at Angela like that. Like she's like my little sister. Like I, the minute I see a tear,'m like okay I gotta protect her like you're just like my world like it's it's insane yeah let's read let's just read a little bit

of James. James is the book of rebuke basically I'm just kidding not really but James the book of James is probably one of the most convicting books of the entire Bible. In James 1 verse 19, hearing and doing the word, know this, let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger. For the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God. Therefore, put away all filthiness and rampant wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and is not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself and goes away at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself and goes

away and once forgets what he looks like. But the one who looks in the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets, but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing. If anyone thinks he is a religious and does not brittle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this, to visit orphans and widows and their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." Wow, we were going gonna talk about this today, about um.

Servanthood. Servanthood, but I'm really excited to talk about this next week. But growing up on the East Coast, is you're just like raised a different way. You're just like, I don't know. So. A little tough.

It's just like you gotta grow up a little tough. Like you don't really talk about feelings. You're just like in fight or flight a lot in survival mode. Like that's how we grew up. And I think having the Bible as like a roadmap to learn how to be and how to act and how to be patient and how to be slow to anger. Instead of being in defense mode, it's like saved our lives. It really has.

It's like, OK, is this what I do? Well, let me go here. Like, I don't have to. It's parenting. Yeah. The Bible has been a parenting guide. It's my dad. Yeah. And so, you know, just that's why they're dad. Yeah, it's you, yeah. And so, you know, just, that's why they're like,

well, what do you got, what do I need the Bible for? Because it's our roadmap to life and it's changed our life and it's made us better people and it's made us kind and help us communicate and be better people and help us serve well and yeah. And the best, I feel like the strength throughout this whole episode was like working through brokenness.

Yeah. That's what we're doing. This is, you guys watched us actively fall in love with Jesus, you guys have watched us go on a sanctification and purification, we've begun to walk in purity with you guys. We've gone on a serious modesty journey with you guys. We've cleaned up our mouths with you guys. Like we've laid down sin, every sin. We, you know, are trying to live holy and righteous and blameless. And now we are, you guys are watching us.

I love that we're in seasons together. Like you guys are going through the season of, we are going through an emotional healing journey with Jesus where he has weeded out all of the sin in our lives and now he's working on our hearts. And now there's like big, big heart work that he has to do. And he's teaching us too that, because we didn't come from Christian families, and so I think our minds were that we have to be these perfect Christians.

There's been a little bit of religious OCD that we have to be so perfect and, you know, and all this stuff. And so we're, I don't know, I'm just going to speak for myself. One of my things that I've been learning through my journey is God's love and God's grace. That's been difficult from coming from such darkness and then walking into the light and feeling like I have to be perfect all the time. And we all fall short. We all do. And so, just like for me, like understanding God's grace, like He really has so much grace. And so, yeah, I've been learning that a lot lately.

Because that's been tough to... It's exhausting to try to keep up and try to be this perfect person because none of us are. And I think a lot of us go through this, right? That's honestly what I think what drives a lot of people out of Christianity because they don't really understand God's grace and God's love. And I truly, I see it all the time. That's why people are like, I don't want to come to faith because how am I going to live up to this standard? And what I'm realizing is it's not like that. It's just not like that.

And so I think this is a journey we're on right now. I love that so much. We love you guys so much. Thank you for coming to this. I wonder if every episode is going to be emotional for a little while, but we love you. Thank you for dealing with my horrific voice and being sick. I just love you guys so much. So much, so much. We love you. We love being on this journey with you.

We love you guys. May the Lord bless you and keep you. May He make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you. May He turn His face towards you and give you peace.