Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 106 - ACOK Davos II: Part 2

Episode Date: October 23, 2020

After doing the unthinkable in splitting a chapter to make two episodes, we follow Davos for another unthinkable moment: a baby shower. But it's not just any baby shower as watches a shadow in the shape of his king born while Davos feels himself die just a little on the inside. --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, A Song of Ice and Fire, Episode 106, Davos 2, and A Clash of Kings part 2. You are invited to a baby shower and I am one of the hosts of this baby shower Chloe. It actually is quite wet around this baby shower this time and I am another one of your hosts for this baby shower Eliana. Thank you for coming we did our best with what we could for this it was a very last minute baby shower but melisandre called us and we said we'd see what we could do yeah we brought her a boat that's a among the gifts that we brought no cradles unfortunately what new child is this who came to kill Courtney Penrose? R.I.P.

That's the song. No one ever said I was great at lyrics. You know, no one ever said you're great at lyrics, Eliana, but we have had other compliments that usually end up in our iTunes reviews about your quirks, we could call them. I thought you were going to say about my musical tastes, but that works too. I'm sticking by what I said, your quirks.

Yep. And this was from our friend Hotter Potter, who said, wow, exclamation point, exclamation point. And I think the two exclamation points really sell me on this review, but I want you to read me the rest of it. I mean, there's a lot that's good in this review. And Hotter Potter says, Found my way here recently

after Chloe did a guest appearance over at History of Westeros. Love your humor and your analysis of the women in A Song of Ice and Fire. All your hot takes are canon, as far as I'm concerned. Then, for your stats purposes, I hit subscribe as soon as

Eliotta started singing about Skimbleshanks slash Steelshanks, so I'm pretty sure that more cats references is a sure win, and thank you for that, Hotter Potter thank you for your support of our podcast, but most importantly me, our podcats

ooh, how come, does that exist? a podcats podcast? I don't want to give you any ideas, so I'm not going to dignify that with any other response. Well. It's a great review. Thank you for the review, Hotter Potter. Thank you. And I'm glad you enjoy our analysis of Women in a Song of Ice and Fire. I do think sometimes we kind of skip out on a very

rarely seen perspective in this series which is the male perspective i think we're really missing out on it but we do our best here with what we can do do and you know what what we miss we make up for with pizzazz and musical numbers like skimble shanks the railway cat the cat on the railway i can probably sing most of uh memory too it's not something that's gonna happen on this podcast but uh is it danny alone in the dothraki sea could be or or no no no sorry that that's an american tale again i was thinking about the starks again being far apart um oh, that's sad. Yeah, so we can talk about memory eventually one day and how my family used to force

me to sing it in front of people. That was traumatic. Anyway, until then. Today is not yeah, today's not the day for that. Today's a different kind of traumatic. Yes, we're going to live some other trauma today, not Eliana's trauma, and I was going to call this a lightning round, which is really just explaining what we did in the very last episode.

Maybe it's more like the Stormlord round since we're going to Storm's End at Chapter's End, but this is a lightning round on what we did last episode. Davos spent the last couple weeks delivering mail around the realm staff defunding USPS and trying, failing to talk Stannis down from his upcoming battle with Courtney Penrose but instead of talking Stannis down Davos apparently gets himself

talked into going along with Melisandre who invites him to a baby shower as her plus one except Courtney Penrose is the one who's taking the baby shower um that doesn't that doesn't sound it's not how baby showers usually work but that's how this one does it is gonna in the words of what is that Lady Gaga that chromatica song rain down on him rain on me i don't know what it

is i don't know i'm trying to be topical it's failing but to be topical stannis and davos have arrived back at camp after the parlay and the smell of horse dung is sticking to the wood smoke and cooking meat stannis commands the lords to disband and meet in an hour for a war council in his pavilion. Davos and Melisandre ride for the pavilion, which is a large canvas soldier's tent dyed yellow gold. The royal banner is the only thing marking it as a king's tent, and the guards as well. Queen's men on spears, the badge of a fiery heart sewn on their own heart. Wow. I do love the language here that describes Stannis' pavilion. It very much, in my opinion, screams the same message as the cold but shining sword.

The language here is the tent had to be large since it was there his lord's bannermen came to council. Yet there was nothing grand about it. It was a soldier's tent of heavy canvas. Dyed the dark yellow that sometimes passed for gold. Definitely gives you a sort of fool's gold or fake gold kind of idea to Stannis.

I was just gonna say, that is what we call fool's gold, son. Fool's gold. I didn't even think about that. That's such a good call out. Well, the guards right now, they're relieving Melisandre of the standard that she carried, and Devon prepares to lift the flap of the tent for the king. I've had some growth, some character growth in the last week.

Wow. I commented last week. I know not often does that happen. I commented last week about Melisandre's placement in the parlay audience, if you recall, and she was in the back. I don't really think I paid enough attention to her carrying the standard and how that kind of fits into it, so this week I'm going to. Standard bearing is a super honored position that goes back to Roman and medieval warfare, and it's a major target for other troops. In Roman legions, they're called a signifier, carried on a standard with phalarrae or discs and medallions and other

things mounted on a pole, which could be like a leaf-shaped spearhead or an open human hand, a wreath, to show an award or honor, generally something to display the oath of loyalty taken by the soldiers. Now, this isn't a normal battle to the eye that we're seeing. Melisandre carries Stannis' fiery banner in the back next to the Onion Knight, kind of makes it feel like a bait and switch. Melisandre is presented at the start of the chapter in the parlay as a woman, standing in the back, made to hold the banner at this peaceful discussion, with the dazzled, armed men out in front.

But by chapter's end, Melisandre has become several gods, not just the mother giving birth to the stranger, but also the warrior as she's sending her child forth to kill Courtney. The whole situation is presented like a parlay, but Melisandre's position in the back holding the banner is most important because, like other standard bearers for stannis if melisandre and that fiery stag flag fall so does he and without her they don't capture storm's end without considerable bloodshed and this is where games like capture the flag

come from literally yes yes huh i liked that game yeah well it's a war game so yeah back when people used to play games with each other in real life and i think that's interesting what you're saying about melisandre and then the flag especially when it comes to the blackwater later on yes the middle never done before yeah blackwater 72 hour blue stanis hands his crown to devon commanding cold water and cups for two party sending melisandre away so he could have a private discussion with davos he threatens to make davos a lord someday meaning he'll have to suffer these councils with the braying mules of the kingdom and boy do the mules love to hear themselves bray he says he explains that once in a while they come up with

something useful though just every once in a while mules seem pretty cool i could make that a tier i like mules so does maya oh you're. I forgot the name of Maya's mule. I'll have to look that up sometime. But here, you know, as you said, it's a party with some cups of water. Stannis making some big ass here, right? Stannis is about to make a really, really, really big ass Godavos. And I think that this exchange really calls to mind again, Robert visiting Ned and being like ned guess what i came all this way to make you my hand and then immediately after in the crypts like first ned like falls to his

knees he's like oh my god i'm honored and robert's like no no it's not an honor you know you're gonna wipe my shit right he says this is a huge burden but whereas whereas Ned, he was the Lord of Winterfell, Warden of the North, and has a lot of control. He has the power to say no to Robert if he wanted to. And then even later on, when he and Robert clash in terms of their values, he has enough power to refuse being Hand. He doesn't do it just yet, he does it later on, of course. And Davos isn't in that same position, right? The power is completely different. Whereas Ned is like, I'm still gonna be fine, right? If I go back to Winterfell, live my life how I wanted to, that's not the case. Because for Davos, everything's contingent on Stannis, his god, right? It's not just about Davos's morals, because Ned and Robert have a dynamic that offers Ned more freedom. They grew up together, right? They have, they grew up as equals in the Vale until they're like, what if Robert was king? I mean, there's a whole rebellion, not just his rebellion,

a lot of things happened. But we see in Ned's chapters, you know, he's doing the same thing as Davos in many ways, right? He's using for the most part softer language initially when it comes to Robert, because he's like, I don't know who this guy is anymore, right? It's been several years. He's wondering if Robert, his friend, has been replaced by Robert the King, and Catelyn warns him of as much. And that's the issue that Davos ends up dealing with when it comes to Stannis right now. He's constantly stepping on eggshells until later on but he's trying to be palatable to what stannis he thinks stannis wants to hear but ned can say all these things right and if robert pulls anything i mean if robert tries to fight a war war against north well ned stood up to one king before right

so when robert asked ned do something that would disgrace Ned entirely and that goes against his very morals, Ned can say something in a small council, some of the most powerful men in the realm, and be able to hold his own and be able to make a point of saying, Robert, I ask you, what did we rise against Ares Targaryen for

if not to put an end to the murder of children? Davos doesn't get to do that because Stannis gets to dictate what his morality is and hold his family and everything that he's gotten hostage. And, you know, it's just really convenient when Stannis is like, you know, Renly died because the Lord of Light willed it. It's really convenient that the Lord of Light's will

kind of matches Stannis' own. And for what it's worth, I think in a lot of other ways, stannis is also exhibiting some hypocrisy with regards to what he was saying about how people regarded robert he was always like coming back to that thing of he's like robert could piss in a cup and everyone's like this is such awesome fucking wine and stannis is like i give them water and they're like suspicious about it and stannis is super mad about it. And I think the fact is that Robert's mercy, the reason why people felt that way, is his mercy turned men's fortunes from things like fated death for treason into a trusted advisor. Whereas here, Stannis has invited someone that he should be trusting, someone who has followed him, promises to serve him.

He's offering him a cup of cool, cold water, which should be very safe. And what he's asking him is to drink moral poison. He's asking him to do something that goes against the very core of what Davos wants to be and do. The very core of what he has wanted Davos to be and do, or said he wanted Davos to be and do. Obviously, actions speak louder than words in my opinion that's all and you know the whole finger thing it's kind of like so I'm still stuck on that uh they're they're not stuck on Davos but I'm stuck on them no wonder uh people are suspicious of his water like what comes with this, because you chop fingers off, bro. You just do that in your free time.

I love that Robert's big vice, besides being too trusting, obviously, and thinking like, oh, things will work out and be fine, is that he died from wine, right? That was one of his big vices as well. That's how he drowned the world out. And it's like Stannis has to do everything the opposite of robert like he can never never enjoy wine right because that's a hidden dagger in the dark like you're saying he has to do the opposite of this yeah trying to differentiate himself from his brother's shadow devon brings them in their water that we were talking about. Stannis adds a pinch of salt into his, and Davos is like, I could use

a hell of a drink right now. This has been a stressful-ass day. And I do think it's interesting that Stannis adds a pinch of salt to his water. I'm just saying, does it mean that we should take everything that Stannis does or says, especially when it comes to moral conviction with a grain of salt? And I am, in fact,

not actually only making a pun there i'm actually being very serious no i think you're right especially i mean davos certainly should take everything he says with a grain of salt shit i'm just saying he needs to look out i really worry about that guy uh stannis adding the salt to his water reminds me a lot of just some stuff i've read from like religious medieval texts and medieval texts and what that whole myth of like they didn't have readily available water is very silly water was definitely available many texts put focus on it it's just wine tasted better and sometimes it was more available uh let's face it, water tastes like nothing. They were like,

we have this beautiful fruit vinegar juice, like, why not drink this instead? I mean, by the 13th century in London, they had built the conduit with pipes bringing fresh water in. It's a non-starter. So more related, it reminds me of some religious medieval texts and how they treated water. Some accounts would say that saints abstained from alcohol and they would drink water only, and some austere communities as well advocated for relying on water. There were medieval handbooks of penance that often punished people by taking away finer food or drink in the face of wrongdoing, for example, including taking away wine and making them drink water, and being pure. For an example, there's an 11th century writer, Bouchard of Worms, who explained,

of Worms, if thou hast sworn by God's hair or by his head or made use of any other blasphemous expression against God, if thou hast done so but once unwittingly, thou shalt do penance for seven days on bread and water. If, after having been upbraided for it, thou hast done it a second or third time, thou shalt do penance for 15 days on bread and water. So, I mean, it fits so well that Stannis seems to be in this perpetual state of penance, right? to be in this perpetual state of penance, right? Like he's trying to somehow absolve himself of this shame that he hasn't brought glory in

the shadow of Robert, right? Or that is paying it readily. And I just thought it was very interesting to think of it in a way of Stannis being pure. Like that Frank from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia moment where he's covered in Purell hand sanitizer on the ground

half nude and it's like i've got to be pure that's stannis that's him i think i actually remember that i haven't watched it's always sunny since like over a decade which i know it's memorable but then i watched like three seasons in one night i stayed up all night it was a hell of a time he's just like a worm on the ground covered in pure and he's just like i just want to be pure that's stanis uh he just wants to be pure that's the other thing like he just wants to get that fast track of devotion to power he's like how what what how can i cheat this how can i cheat this there's an essence of him that is a little also holier than thou. Yeah, absolutely.

Like, he does it here, right? Especially even when he talks about all his mules of lords around him. He's telling Davos what he expects that he's gonna hear in his next council. It's like Lord Valyrian would tell him to storm the walls at first light with grapnels. And he's like, the younger

mules are gonna love it. Estermont's gonna say, let's do a year-long siege, just like the Tyrells and Redwine did with Stannis. Then you're gonna have Bryce Caron, and the rest are gonna plead for single combat and that undying fame that comes with it.

I do love the beginning of Stannis' crew with these sweet summer nights, many that have come over from Redley's camp, and just the air of all the glory they want. And it's so sad because we get it so perverted as we get through to Adowada, right? I feel this is a perfect intro for House Karen, or to give more attention to House Karen, I should say. Their semi-canon words from the World of Ice and Fire app are,

no song so sweet. And Karen is singing a sweet song indeed this whole chapter about his prowess in combat. House Karen is actually a pretty interesting house. They're lord of the marches, but it's nothing but a title. They have no extra rule over marcher lords or anything. And if you recall, one of the boys Brienne was to marry was a Karenairn, Brian Cairn's younger son who died of a chill. But to bring it back to something we've talked about a tiny bit on Patreon with Agen III, there was a Lord Cairn on his council who helped with the whole rebuild Westeros better bullshit that was happening then, though only for about a year. It's interesting to

see him on Team Stannis, new front runner for rebuild westeros though i'm not really sure what infrastructure they're rebuilding but you know interesting interesting yeah and i mean we are in quite a bit of a war right now so interesting stannis asks well davos what would you do and davos says well i would leave and take king's landing because the lannisters actually are our enemy and penrose doesn't have the power to harm us or do anything more than this. He's like, once we attack and dethrone Joff, the rest is Stannis' and Tywin. As they know at the moment, Tywin is heading west to defend Lannisport, not, you know, back to King's Landing for like the Blackwater or anything. He's not right now, right?

Stannis tells Devon, you know, Devon, your father's pretty clever and that I wish I had more smugglers in my service. Really laying it on there, Stannis. But Davos, he says, is wrong about one thing. He says there is, in fact, a need for him to take his ancestral home. He says, there is in fact a need for him to take his ancestral home he says if i leave storms and untaken in my rear it will be said i was defeated there and that i cannot permit men do not love me as they loved my brothers they follow me because they fear me and defeat is death to fear. The castle must fall. Hmm.

Hmm. You know, being Stannis just means grit your teeth in your beer. Lots going on. But no, no, interestingly enough, they're both semi-right. There's something about this that always made me wonder why Cersei wasn't more focused on, like, taking Storm's End ahead of time, especially since it's the ancestral seat for her sons in the end for Tommen. Like if Joffrey is king and doesn't die, Tommen needs to have a place to go to and have little lordlings there and, you know, carry on the family legacy and all that. And it kind of shows that short-sightedness.

Like if you don't have your ancestral home, that doesn't really hold up your claim. But interestingly enough, Davos does have the right of it because King's Landing is a mess right now. Last chapter comes off the riot where people don't have food or housing. The Lannisters are walking the streets as royals with no repercussions for what they've done to the city until, you know, this riot. And the real shadowbinding we end up seeing is that by waiting and letting the Lannisters calculate and come up with plots and plans and schemes to see themselves safe, like Tyrion with the chain, keeping Tommen quote-unquote safe, the small folks still cling to Renly's ghost, not Stannis. That's the true shadowbinding that gets done is Garland in that suit suit stannis is too wrapped up in

his image as a king and his glory over his brother's memories that the small folk cheer for the ghost of renly who dared to save the city and stannis ends up the villain who attacked it that's so interesting when you're saying about that being shadowbinding it's uh he's putting on that face right the way that the shadow at the end has stanis's face yeah and you know uh what you were saying right about it does make sense why he needs storms that i mean we see the consequences of losing winterfell in this very same book right this kind of portends that importance when it comes to theon taking it out from Robb's army, but also that idea of why doesn't Cersei try to take Storm's End? And I mean, why doesn't Tyrion as well? And I think that does have a bit

to do with Tywin's host heading west. King's Landing does, as you said, it's a mess. They're a little afraid. They feel like they're not ready for an invasion from Stannis. It's why they start laughing. Cersei and Tyrion are so relieved and they're like ready for an invasion from Stannis. It's why they start laughing. Cersei and Tyrion are so relieved and they're like, are you fucking kidding me? Renly and Stannis are fighting each other? Because they are legitimately afraid of Stannis, right? Yeah, they're laughing.

They're like, wow, I can't believe we locked out like this. And we can see how afraid Cersei is actually of Stannis, even at the Blackwater, right? She's like, I would rather die than face Stannis. And that blackwater right she's like i would rather die than face stannis and that's the plan that she has for her you're not alone cersei most of westeros feels that way and you know i'm reminded of this because not a cast is entering blackwater territory i love that we once more will be covering a thing similar, they are entering Blackwater. The Sansa and Sandor episode this week recorded before Blackwater, before everything really pumps off.

So they are getting to Blackwater soon. And Cersei at Blackwater, around then when Sansa gets her period and Cersei at Blackwater, Cersei says that love is poison and it'll kill you all the same. Like you are weaker, Sans sansa if you love more people but then of course we have thoughts from catalan in a different part of the books where she thinks that laughter is poison to fear so it's really interesting to see how these two thoughts regard everything and of course you have sansa at the blackwater thinking when i'm queen i'll make them love me in comparison to all this ruling through fear.

I know that we need to stop talking about Stannis, but it's interesting that idea of laughter is poison to fear in that, I mean, no one fucking laughs at Stannis, right? Stannis doesn't even fucking laugh at Stannis. Yeah, he's laughed, what, three times? Yeah, actually we did see one of them earlier this episode, never mind. But that's with Davos. It's not with people. You don't see it publicly. This is seen in the eyes of his smuggler. Yeah.

Stannis is like laughing in front of Davos and he's pulling a Bill Murray's like a no one will ever believe you. This ever happened. He does it quickly, his laughs, right? But in just like this, right? What he has to do here at Storm's End. He has to do it quickly. Dorner's swords are waiting in the mountain passes to sweep the marches. Highgarden, of course, has the height of Renly's power, 60,000 foot soldiers. Not all of them, as we know, defected to Stannis.

And the men he sent to retrieve them, Arrol and Parmesan Crane, Jean Parmesan Crane, Jean Parmesan Crane had still not returned, and it's likely Loras had taken the army for himself by now. Which, what resume builder? Davos begins to tell him what Salador San said, but Stannis is like, I don't want to hear it.

He thinks that Salador thinks only of gold, and his head is full of dreams and the red keeps treasure. Is that Cersei's vagina? Yes, that's Cersei's cunt where the gold is kept, as we know from Robert Baratheon. Yes. I did want to rewind now that I think about it. The situation where it's likely Loras had taken the army for himself by now.

Does that make you think about later vibes for loris at all the dragon stone dude i hope so i mean i still worry about that boy but i worry about that boy but i really want to see loris has the potential for such interesting character development he does and alas will he get it he's gonna be a great foil if he survives to John Connington, right? The king, prince that he loved. Anyway. There's this line we get from Stannis about Salador San, and Stannis says, The day I need military counsel from a Lysine brigand is the day I put off my crown and take the black.

Interestingly enough, the next two people who take Storm's End will have a Free Cities or Valyrian advisor, right? Orien Waters for Cersei and Lysona Marr for Aegon. Yeah, so, you know, Stannis went through all that fucking trouble just to lose the goddamn castle anyway, but he was trying to

get Edric Storm anyway. He was telling them it's about the castle. It's not about the castle, it was about the boy. Whatever. But there's something about that line of the lysine brigand the day I put off my crown take the black that makes me pause and wonder like I'm sure there are people who take this line to have meant

Stannis taking the black because he does go and aid the Night's Watch of course of course and there's like all those parallels he has with the Night's King and I think that that makes a lot of sense but like while i'm here wilding out on my own podcast uh part of me wonders if that moment when stannis is so desperate right that he removes his crown and takes the black could that be him relinquishing rather his kingship and donning morning clothes not the

night's watch black because after all we see from circe investors black is still the color of morning and you know stannis is about to do a lot of shit that might involve some morning for family members or something i sure would say it's a wake-up call to some fans that's for sure a wake up call amazing morning wake we're going to hell for this we should start a podcast oh we should you know not this so interesting because he's finally letting himself mourn kind of falling upon his flaming sword in a way and i used to really like all those commander theories those lord commander theories for stannis for the night's watch back when i liked stannis we all have a redemption art everyone so i'm just saying i used to like stannis now i don't uh i haven't really thought about that theory in a

while though and something else that kind of just popped out is Edric is later whisked off to Lys. So it's funny that he says, like, oh, the day I start trusting Lysini Brigand, well, that's where Edric ends up with Lord Eastermont, isn't it? It is. And we do talk about that

quite a bit also in our Aegon III episode. And yes, we did. And there's a little bit of that. There's that theory that maybe Aegon VI, Blackfire Garion, whatever, will be whatever you want to effing call him, Egghead.

Maybe he will be bringing Edric back as his Storm's End lord. You know? Yeah. Lord Eggstramon. I've always liked that. That's where tyrek went so the estermont so this is just something i was thinking randomly for no reason the other day and you know how george like really is into turtles and the estermont sigil is turtles is there like maybe something with where george grew up or his childhood or youth or whatever

with the turtles that's like an eastern mountain or something because that's what I think Estermont sort of sounds like it might mean and that's it that was the thought turtles and there's a connection. Eastern mountain time I mean oh yeah I mean like I don't know I'm just

we know that turtles is George's first true inspiration for all of his fiction pretty much yeah and no it does make sense uh i don't know i like the idea that's like how there's the giant star turtle in disc world uh who carries the four giant elephants who turn then carry the actual disc world on top of them like the idea the idea in disc world no spoilers it's there's only like 50 something books and it's been out for a jillion years but he's been trying to get me to read them they're good it's just there's a lot and there are some

really good reading guides that tell you like don't read this just read these and read spark notes on this too like save yourself this handful of books uh but yes so basically i think that's probably a great influence of course is the turtles because they carry the entire world on their back with the elephants and i thought that was neat so i'm sure there's a little bit of that somewhere in there as well in his little turtle war worlds he started writing this book off of when he was like a child making turtles yeah other anyways yeah so you know just as the turtles serve george the king asks if davos is here to serve him stannis and davos is like yes i am and then he tasks davos with a mission and all this language of serving service to stannis that melisandre serves it does i will say set things up quite nicely for later on when

stienis is like wait but what about me do i serve do i serve the realm maybe later on in a storm of swords so courtney penrose is someone who has served as well in this story right we talked a little bit about him in the last episode and that he treated edrick as his own child since no one else gave a fuck about edrick obviously except him it's sad but true i mean even his own uh kin as we learn just see him as a political piece and courtney penrose uh has a lieutenant as well who is another bastard a bastard cousin to the fosways a boy of 20. And if Courtney Penrose dies, Stannis says the cousins will likely take control with this Lord Meadows character. Davos reminds him of another 20-year-old he once knew who once commanded Storm's End, and Stannis says, well, this one isn't as stubborn as

I was. Davos doesn't know why this matters. He's like, Penrose seems to look super healthy. Couple things here. It tickles me to think Stannis cutting Davos' fingers off by the ripe age of 21 years old is considered this big crazy like Stannis' righteous act. He's a 21 year old who had too much lemon water one night and was like, I'm going to chop your fingers off

because you stole Davos. What fucking 21 year old is sitting around and is like, I'm going to punish'm gonna chop your fingers off because you stole davos what fucking 21 year old is sitting around and is like i'm gonna punish you and take your fingers off as as a righteous 21 year old but have you considered that's definitely a thing that a 21 year old would think on the other hand i mean on the other hand davos has different fingers eliana oh well i didn't even mean for that to happen. You set it up and I just bowled it straight down, strike after strike. I do like the hint, though, that Davos is like, I don't understand what you mean.

Courtney Penrose looks healthy. And Stannis then follows up and he's like, Renly looked healthy, too, the night before he died. And Davos feels hair stand up on his neck like those are the words of complicit behavior in this horrible task and suddenly the reality sets in and davos is like wow i am being tasked to help serve as a firing squad a covert firing squad from melisandre's powerful pussy like we are firing that murder out at courtney penrose straight out of there just and he pachoo! And he doesn't even know that yet, but he will.

He has an idea, because, like, at a point, he thinks of the term, like, I've never been an assassin before. And, yeah, as you said, you know, things are sinking in. He's like, he's, like, not admitting it to himself, but he knows. He's like, so Stan has killed his brother

and he gets confirmation of that right Davos is the one who's crafting a theory in his head right now he's writing up the post on Reddit he's like I think Stannis killed his brother here's my proof confirmation

TLDR Stannis I think killed redly oh my god why did the user delete their account he's like oh god it was true or no one else can like refer back to it they're like wait remember that guy who Comments were locked. Stannis says Melisandre has seen Courtney's death in the flames and the manner of it. He won't die in nightly combat. Her flames don't lie. She saw Renly's doom as well, he says. Melisandre had told Stannis that if he sailed to Storm's End, he would win his brother's power.

Davos then protests. Renly was marching against the Lannisters originally, and he begins to say what Renly would have done, but Stannis cuts him off mid-conjugation. Stannis goes, was, would have, what is that? He did what he did. He came here with his banners and his peaches to his doom. And it was well for me he did. Melisandre saw another day in her flames as well. Amaro, where Renly rode out of the south in his green armor to smash my host beneath the walls of King's Landing. Had I met my brother there, it might have been me who died in place of him. Davos then brings up, you know, if there were two futures, maybe one of the futures would have been an alternate universe

where you join each other to bring the Lannisters down. And Stannis is like, no, that sounds fake. Sounds fake. Yeah, because like Davos is like, so how do you know that these are like different futures? And you know what? I'm going to tell you right now, davos ends up being right in a way and i want to talk about why the take on theology that has to do solely around how light works right and all this is stupid because turns out stannis doesn't know shit about light and no one knows shit about how light works in the story i'm going to read you another another stannis line here of there you err on your night some lights cast more

than one shadow stand before the night fire and you'll see for yourself the flames shift and dance never still the shadows grow tall and short and every man casts a dozen some are fainter than others that's all while men cast their shadows across the future as well. One shadow, or many, Melisandre sees them all. So everyone, I want you all to buckle up, you're gonna get something that you didn't think you were gonna get

on these podcasts, and I'm gonna go through a slight drawing 101 lesson here. As some of you may know, I have an artistic background, and lighting is actually, believe it or not, a pretty big fucking deal when it comes to art. And to Stannis' credit, he is right.

You know, flames do shift and dance as they grow, and that shifting, right, can cause those multiple shadows, but that's because the light source is changing, or there is more than one as that light dances, you know, things flicker, etc., and shadows, but that's because the light source is changing, or there is more than one as that light dances, you know, things flicker, etc. and light moves fast.

But when you have a single light source, alright, you do not get multiple shadows that split. You might get different shadows on your object, such as like maybe a cast shadow or half shadows on the object, right, like the shadow's gradation might change the intensity, but those shadows aren't created by the light. A cast shadow comes from an object blocking the light. Those are the shadows that Stannis is talking about, what's cast down on the ground. You might get some reflective light back on the object,

but that's not the fucking same, right? That's from other objects bouncing light back. Anyways, I digress so artists have to be really particular in how they portray something because if your shadows are confusing then your viewer is going to be confused right because then you have a confusing light source it's not as good looking of an image it's not as aesthetic unless that's your intentional perhaps artistic intent like you're doing that on purpose because you you want to make a certain point in it, you want to portray something, or maybe it's something more abstracted, or maybe that's how things look. But regardless, if there's more than one light source, you just have to be very, very careful because

lighting is very deliberate, right? An image is not a 3d object, right? You're using light to create the illusion of volume. And light is used to highlight that form and shape. And the point is, if you have multiple shadows, it gets confusing, right? Because what you actually have is multiple light sources. And again, that's why artists are very deliberate in how they set things up for paintings, drawings, etc. For that very reason, I encourage you to go look at some of maybe your favorite still life paintings, drawings, etc. for that very reason. I encourage you to go look at some of maybe your favorite still life paintings, or maybe some of your, I don't know, favorite Rembranzos have really dramatic lighting, right? Many of these are effective studies,

right, especially for still lifes, because artists will only use one light source for those still lives so that they can really get a sense of the form. But the point is, this scene, therefore, this moment where Stannis is trying to give a lesson on theology to Davos can be read two ways. Because again, Stannis and Melisandre don't actually

know how the fuck light works. One of those ways is, A, Davos is correct in his questioning, and there is, in fact fact a single shadow that is cast as we see because yes Renly dies and yes at the same time his armor does appear at the Blackwater and that spells Stannis's doom like Davos questioning how he must be used to make these prophecies come true he's like that's really weird Stannis is doing the same thing and spelling his doom throughout all of this by killing Renly, adding to his power, therefore, when his ghost comes back, that adds to his own mystique.

It turns out it's Scarlet Tyrell. Both of these are true, and that means there's one true light source. Or the other interpretation of this is that there are, in fact, if there are multiple shadows cast in multiple futures, there are, in fact, multiple light sources and not just one light source. And that means that the measure of good and evil via the lord of light isn't just one measure there there must be other senses of morality and would you know it wouldn't you know it something interesting that happens when you have multiple light sources sometimes is that you get a lot of those different not just shadows but a lot of

different tonal shades those in-betweens mid-tones you know how you make those colors those different shades shadows, shades of grey ah like Stani and Mel yes so today you got not just drawing 101 but a little dash of color theory just the tiniest pinch, like that salt

that's what I have to say about light thank you eliana for your beautiful artistic render we can say that you just brought us amazing brilliant thank you you know stannis knows that davos doesn't love melisandre no matter how many shades of gray or shadows she can cast or see or fires she can light. Not many people really like Melisandre in this camp. Most of them just find her unnatural, right? Like, Gaillard thinks a woman shouldn't be his standard bearer, as we kind of mentioned earlier, and others whisper, she shouldn't be in the war councils at all.

You should send her back to Asshai. That's not how that works they whisper while she serves and sees in her flames davos boldly asks how melisandre serves since he couldn't winkle it out of the sun and stannis responds as needed and now stannis commands davos he must take a small boat and bring stannis the boy davosos protests, saying there are cleaner ways. Court may may yield, but Stannis responds that he must have the boy, Davos, must. Melisandre has seen that in her flames as well. Which I thought was interesting, because besides the idea of king's blood, we don't actually know what Melisandre saw in the flames that makes everyone so desperate to get a hold of edrick right yeah he becomes this obsession with power it's like a microcosm of stannis's entire obsession with power edrick is this symbol of freedom and liberation at first right he starts off as a symbol of like hey

this could free us from the lannisters but then it gets perverted in a pathway for power for Stannis. He goes and turns into the body of Christ from the symbol of power to becoming an ingredient of power, a mixture to put into the power potion Stannis wants to drink. to Eliana's delight, especially from our friend Bidonica, who wrote some really good meta over at Tumblr. So if you missed it, check out last week's episode. But Stannis here ends up getting to the point of like, first, King's blood is powerful for proving things. And then it becomes King's blood is powerful to drink and absorb all the powers

and take over Westeros. It's a pretty, it's a steep climb, right? It's so steep that even Davos, as we're going to get to in the future, in the chapters to come, goes, this feels wrong? Question mark? Question mark? Maybe we're lucky that Stannis doesn't laugh,

right? Would he come off as like a crazy villain laugh or something? No, he'd be like one of those stupid nerdy ones that would be like a nerdy genius villain. Yeah, like, I can't stand that I've been foiled again by you Davos Onion Knight. Yeah, it would be interesting.

Even though I know that it's supposed to sound like a gust of wind, but, you know, whatever. Davos tries to convince him that Courtney may actually be looking for a way to yield to Stannis with honor, even if it means his life, but Stannis is, as noted earlier, stubborn. He truly, truly is. More like he had plans for some treachery. There'll be no combat of champions, Sir Courtney was dead before he ever threw that glove. The flames do not lie, Davos. Yet,

they require me to make them true. He thought. It had been a long time since Davos Seaworth felt so sad. Aww. But anyway, this is how Stannis has been playing with prophecy, forcing them into truth and holding a sword aww but anyway this is how Stannis has been playing with prophecy

forcing them into truth and holding a sword without a hilt which, you know, bites his ass at the Blackwater as we mentioned but until then, Davos has found himself steering a tiny boat I'm on a boat, how did I fucking get here across shipbreaker bay

thinking of the difference from the last time he took a smuggler's ship the difference from the last time he took a smuggler ship to storm's end last time he brought life in an onion shape layers he brought shrek to storm's end the tyrells and the red wines scattered around and this time it's death and it's melisandre and stanis's ship surrounding storm's end and melisandre's hidden in red cloaks on the ship with him. And he takes no comfort from the sea, even though he loves it. And she tells him she can smell his fear. Someone once told me the night is dark and full of terrors.

And tonight, I am no knight. Tonight I am Davos the smuggler again. Would that you were an onion. She laughed. I laughed too if someone fucking told. Would that you were an onion. She laughed. I'd laugh too if someone fucking told me. I wish you were an onion. Anyways, Davos revisiting this watery place actually reminds me of another sea-affiliated POV character in this book,

our favorite para-larvae, Theon. This isn't really Davos' crossing of the Rubicon. You know, as we discussed with Theon crossing that one river, he goes over it and then returns change when he decides to come back with the Miller's boys. As again, no man can cross the same river twice for he is not the same man. It is not the same river.

Once more, Heraclitus. That's great. It also reminds me of the River Styx, right? Major River Styx vibes. I mean, even down to the etymology, Styx means abomination or abhorrent. And the water of the River Styx is black and inky and fatal to the touch and fatal if it's drunk. And it's where the fifth circle is, right? Those damned for being wrathful and sullen interesting they're immersed in a toxic black liquid that makes the river up and it circles the underworld nine times from the university of texas

at austin like the fourth circle of hell the fifth circle represented in inferno seven and eight contains two related groups of sinners but whereas avarice and prodigality are two distinct sins based on the same principle and a moderate attitude toward material wealth, wrath and sullenness are basically two forms of a single sin. Anger that's expressed, wrath, and anger that's repressed, sullenness. The idea that anger takes various forms is common in ancient and medieval thought. Note how the two groups suffer different punishments appropriate to their anger the wrathful ruthlessly attacking one another and the sullen stewing below the surface of the muddy swamp but they're all confined to the sticks so hysterically stannis will end up having to spend his later existence in hell with robert so hysterically because robert's wrath and stannis will end up having to spend his later existence in hell with Robert so hysterically because Robert's wrath and Stannis' sullenness will haunt them to the river Styx, I'm guessing.

But I think this can be drawn on when we get to Blackwater as well and its inky depths. But it felt about right. Like, this is, that's Stannis' problem. His repressed anger throughout all the years is now manifesting in his tie ray to take over the whole country yeah stannis like many other characters in these books also needs a therapist and i like this and just it's a quick side note kind of fits with how robert's always like seven hells right sounds like the inferno seven that's where he and stannis are gonna chill forever that is the funniest part of it like you're gonna be stuck with your fucking brothers the rest of eternity after you die stannis so don't be so quick to get

on this path to glory hell is other people has another from another book well technically play whatever anyways melisandre asks if davos fears her or if he fears what they do and he says the latter he says I fear what you're gonna do and he's like I'm gonna have no part of it and she's like but you are a part of it you're the one who raised the seal

you're the one holding the tiller yeah this uh classic exchange are you a good man Davos Seaworth? She asked. Would a good man be doing this? I am a man, he said. I am kind to my wife, but I have known other women. I have tried to be a father to my sons, to help them make a place in this world.

I have broken laws, but I never felt evil until tonight. I would say my parts are mixed, m'lady, good and bad. A grey man, she said, neither white nor black, but partaking of both. Is that what you are, Sir Davos? What if I am? Seems to me that most men are grey. If half of an onion is black with rot, it is a rotten onion. A man is good, or he is evil.

The fires behind them had melted into one vague glow against the black sky, and the land was almost out of sight. It was time to come about. Yo, I don't think Melisandre knows how to cook. You know, for all her fire stuff, I don't think she knows how to cook.

I'm gonna throw that out there. Wasteful. Actually, though, absolutely wasteful. Like, I would get my hands smacked. I know. I just like cut. I think we've discussed this before. I just cut off the other parts,

take off the other parts. I'm like, this part's fine. You and I have both discussed that we've gotten in trouble already for trying to rinse out plastic bags and reuse them this season you know i mean melisandre would not last a moment in my kitchen absolutely not anyway so there's a lot in this passage what i find very interesting about this exchange is this idea of someone being either a good person or a bad person because of how it manifests in the context of davos and of course like stanis historian even melisandras but that idea of morality here and how it works is quite backwards this philosophy about it because beyond the connections of how

it ties in with power and that those with power get to dictate the moral systems as we see with stanis there's just something i think very strange about the idea of someone either being intrinsically from the get-go good or bad being made good or made bad and i do think pushing against that or questioning what that means is kind of one of the really big drivers of the entire fucking series like as we discussed with jamie lannister's chapters he's one of the big explorations of this question right goodness and evilness greatness but i i find it just so backwards because like it's as though melisandre and by stannis uh by extension they sort of define this idea that a person is either good or evil, right? And it's

quite hypocritical, as we'll discuss later with some other stuff that Stannis says earlier in this chapter. But it feels as though Melisandre maybe has sold Stannis on this narrative that he is intrinsically good. He's the one true king, chosen by the one true god, and Stannis just desperately, desperately wants that in a world uh where people suspect him of poisoning them when he offers cold water which again what davos is doing now this is the poison but he wants to be seen as good in a world that constantly suspects him of bad and so we get that justification that no matter what stanis does whether it whether it's burning the gods, killing his brother, killing Cornelio Penrose to steal his nephew

so that he can use his king's blood for nefarious reasons, i.e. also killing him, all of this is fine and okay because the idea is that Stannis is by definition, right, set out at the beginning of this world by Melisandre's

theology and philosophy, Stannis is a good person. And by virtue of him always having been a good person, any of the further actions that come from what he does are therefore good, no matter what it is. And it's kind of this idea that a good tree can only bear good fruit, and a bad tree can only

bear bad fruit, coming back to food things. But that one true king- Okay okay we did have a pepper plant with rot and it only bore bad peppers but anyways um the one true king and one true god right that's from where all morality flows that's this moral objectivity that's going around this books which i think that the books are very much arguing against, not just because we're like, wow, seeing this through Davos's POV and that grayness and seeing it, but the book's very structure itself argues against this idea of objectivity at all, moral or not, right? That's why it's structured in such a way that we have different chapters and we have this roving

third-person narrative framing through which you see that rationale. And that constant questioning that we see here of Davos as a smuggler feels like it's not just a jab at his status or his class, it's a reminder of his past sins. And it's meant to make him question like, well, Davos, you've got a criminal record. Are you a bad person? And I mean, if you're not a bad person not just born bad right prove yourself then by doing good deeds like this when truly it should be actually the deeds and culmination of those works and and the impact of all of that right all of these are it's a much more complex equation and question there's not always even like one right answer that's spit out at the end of that mathematical question that leads to the later judgment of whether or not someone is good versus the way here where it's

the other way around yeah it does as you're saying it feels like it's being used as blackmail against davos right his past being brought up to haunt him at every corner to get him into a moral quandary that he normally would say no to because he is a good guy i mean i think that maybe he needs to work on his relationship with maria and knowing other women uh if the dates align which i know george really doesn't think about it in this manner but with the ages with the ages of his children like he's been with maria since he was like 17 18 19 you know like he and maria have been together forever so if he's known other women i'm just surprised that he still would

think of it as a sin after these 20 something years you know what i mean uh i digress so i feel like it's weird that stannis is just blackmailing him for this all the time when it's what he's punished him for. And it kind of reminds me of just the justice system in any world of how it pretends it's going to rehabilitate people and pretends it's going to try to help to do so. But then when it realizes that the risk assessment means that getting the risk to fall on that person who they spent the time rehabilitating is cheaper than taking the fall themselves like why why is it a crime then just call it not a crime yeah if you're just gonna keep using it it just doesn't make sense like doesn't that make you bad for exploiting a rehabilitated criminal that you punished for being a criminal you know like

that's what i feel really like i just feel really weird about that plot line like it just feels weird or stanley says like i'm not part of this i haven't done anything with it whereas you know as we discussed last chapter there's a sorry it was actually this chapter last episode of this chapter there's a blurry line of responsibility as we see through Makar. And that carries through for Davos here, right? Stirring the ship. This is a threesome, yeah. It is.

This is your first threesome, guys, and you're not doing hot. You know, it's a question that Sansa's going to have to wrestle with later on. Even she's like, what is my role in this by wearing the hairnet, right? Even though she was ignorant of it at the time. But, you know, it's a question that carries throughout the series. And, you know, coming back to that good or evil when it comes to Stannis, there's all a... Speaking of Nata crimes, Nata Cass brought up the line from earlier in this chapter

where Stannis believes, as Davos does, right, that men are mixed. Or so stannis believes as davos does right that men are mixed or so stannis says right he's like a good deed doesn't wash out the bad nor the bad the good which i don't know why i quote that sometimes in my life i don't like stannis i just say it every now and then but he also believes that a good deed therefore deserves reward and a bad deed punishment it's different from mel's philosophy and stannis is operating on something of a moral paradox here then and that he gets to dole out the punishment and reward again he's operating in that position of god and we you know coming back to theology a little we talked about this a little especially in regards to the stark storyline that contrast between justice versus mercy mercy is going to come up a lot, I think,

in the Starks storyline. It already is, especially in terms of this idea of forgiveness. Stannis says of the men who have defected to him from Renly that he has forgiven them, but he hasn't really forgotten. And my understanding from some biblical theology, it's not always the case, but there's that idea that you're supposed to forget the sins that are done against you and that's something that um happens right that that's how like the forgiveness of god works right but you know coming back to stannis and that idea of goodness rewards bad punishment i do think that gives us some insight into why stannis is so salty it's not just that he's drinking salt water which interesting stannis believes right that's why he loves melisandre's philosophy he he ultimately believes that he has been very good he's like why didn't robert like fucking love me or do anything for me and he's salty that he has not been rewarded for the

goodness that he's done and how he served robert because good deeds should be rewarded and we'll find that as the story progresses his fixation on his own goodness then blinds him to the other atrocious acts that he does and the eventual punishment that he's going to bring upon himself because he's so set in this idea that he's been good and deserves that reward and is chasing it. But we already know this thing that Stannis has not accepted because the story has also taught us this,

right? The story mind, as well as I mean, the real world, has taught us that good doesn't just beget good nor bad bad. It's the savatis of that notion from the get-go because it killed Ned. Ned was set up to be our moral compass and died you know it's funny that you said that uh you use that quote in your

life all the time because i always accidentally interchange that quote with a quote from dr who which is something that you will watch eventually i'm working on it uh we have other things first like gossip girl anyways important that one i'm gonna do that one's important yeah very important doctor who though is important too just later we have many years together you and me you know we're gonna cherish them many years but the line in doctor who is from uh the vincent and the doctor it's a vincent oh i've seen i've seen that i've seen that one scene i cry sometimes even though i've never seen the series. Imagine if you saw the series, you'll be a little baby. I can't wait. I'll get you on it. See, but the quote is, the doctor says, the way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things, but vice versa. The bad things don't always spoil the good and make them unimportant.

I always think of that line against this line. That quote always comes into my mind when I think of that Stannis line about men are being mixed, right? That's a mixed bag. And I think the biggest reason why Stannis tries to preach that while maybe not always acting like it is because he desperately wants it to be true. He wants to believe it's true, not only about his actions, but about what was done to him. And he wants to be able to forgive his brother for what he's holding and grudging against him. Like you said earlier of him ripping off the crown and donning the black for mourning. Like you said earlier of him ripping off the crown and donning the black for mourning. I think he's always wanted to be able to forgive and to be forgiven, right?

In his family. Yeah. He hasn't experienced mercy or love because, I mean, he comes from a broken family in many ways. Yeah. So he's just been yearning for what he thinks is justice and all of that that's why 21 year old Stan is some people drink too much when they're 21 he chops off people's fingers yup

normal shit, normal rich kid shit yeah he's fine yup it's fine as they pull into the shore Davos asks Melisandre so this whole like good bad gray thing right that counts for women too right and she laughs at him she says of course i'm good and she frames herself as a knight and calls herself a champion of light and life and i thought that was a really interesting tie-in to some of the other things that go on in

this book as we said last episode this is a keystone chapter and melisandre's about to actually give birth as we all know and brienne and catlin just a few chapters earlier have discussed the birthing bed as a woman's battlefield so it's interesting for melisandre to call herself a knight davos says she means to kill a man just as she killed Cressen and Melisandre says yes with that powerful pussy uh Melisandre says I didn't kill him I did not uh he poisoned himself and she was protected by a greater power I didn't touch him I did. I did not poison Mr. Cresson. I did not. Oh, hi, Renly. Oh, hi, Renly.

How's the sex life? Dead. Yeah, dead. Exactly. That is what the sex life is. Because Renly's dead, too. But yes, so she says she didn't kill Renly, either. I did not. Davos names her a liar and i'm just saying if melisandre's like well she's like it wasn't me so i'm like she's saying

it was stannis right so maybe stannis's cock is powerful wow i mean i'm just saying like maybe it is i don't that's the real light bring. He just doesn't want to wave his hand. I don't know if it brings light. It brings darkness. That's too close to current events during the time we're recording this. We get a passage. Feel how cold the wind is? The guards will huddle close to those torches. A little warmth, a little light.

Their comfort on a night like this Yet that will blind them so they will not see us pass I hope The god of darkness protects us now, my lady Even you The flames of her eyes seem to burn a little brighter at that Speak not that name, sir Lest you draw his black eye upon us he protects no man i promise you

he's the enemy of all that lives it is the tortures that hide us you have said so yourself fire the bright gift of the lord of light i love that fire is described as the gift of r'hllor who wields it to see in darkness because of course fire burns and destroys which is about to become so totally prominent in the waters outside King's Landing during Blackwater and we see gifts described often as physical injuries like Sandor describes his burns from Gregor as a gift, much like he stole Gregor's gift, which was a toy knight. And of course, like the bruises that Joffrey gifts Sansa or the black eye Robert gifts Cersei. But with regards to religion or political groups, most of the vanilla religions describe things like plentiful harvests and babies as gifts of the gods.

and babies as gifts of the gods not a lot of religions or interest groups form the idea of being able to bestow a burning fire or with faceless men who give a gift which is peaceful painless death for example not a lot of people tout that as their tagline i thought that was interesting that is interesting even with the i mean this this is a baby it's about to be a gift here but oh yeah the way that they frame some of those euphemisms, right? Like the kiss of life that happens in R'hllor. Actually, that is pretty gifty, you know? Coming back from the dead. Anyway, Davos here talks about that bright light blinding the guards,

and I kind of thought that made sense in the context of a lot of this story, right? The bright light, the fire, all the flashiness of the tricks that Melisandre does, and then the sword, right, that's gonna blind them to the truth of everything, which is that Stannis is not Azor Ahai. Yeah. He's a false god.

But he's still the one true king of Westeros. Melisandre helps Davos bring in the seal and he rubs them in he asks who rode her to Renly and she says there was no need he was unprotected but Storm's End is an old place with

ancient spells in its stone walls walls that no shadow can pass and Davos says that a shadow is a thing of darkness, got him! And Melisandre says you're ignorant! Shadows are the servants of life, the children of fire, and then says that the brightest flame casts the darkest

shadows. Well, I'm sorry I didn't go to fucking shadow school in a shy beyond the fucking shadows, Melisandre! I'm sorry I'm fucking poor! Like like what the fuck yeah not everyone's a shadow scholarship yeah sorry i'm a fucking peasant bitch god uh she's probably like i'm also a peasant try harder pull yourself up by your bootstraps davos davos frowns and he hushes melissandre and rows them into the mouth of Storm's End's cliff because water travels.

By the way, sound travels on water is what I mean by that. If I'm using real words that go together, sound travels on water and they are entering a tunnel on a rather dangerous cavern that Davos must definitely work through to get them through. Not the most treacherous we'll see Davos at, right, as we later get him going to Skagos, which is supposed to be the most treacherous. Can't wait to see more of that in The Winds of Winter. Interestingly enough, the next chapter after this is a Jon chapter, and this is the chapter that men from the Shadow Tower arrive. Yeah, so Davos and Mel are currently at a Tower of Shadows,

several Towers of Shadows, Storm's End, and Jon actually goes on to kill a man that seems pretty innocent as well, Corrin Hathian, out of necessity. Not for power, which is what Stannis and Melisandre have kind of built up, but for the sake of the realm. Interesting. Sacrifices. Hmm.

A lot to think about there. Right now, people aren't thinking. They're feeling. They're soaked to the skin. They enter darkness. The waters are finally smoothing, and the echoes of their breathing surround them. Again, the last time Davos had been here.

But this time, he's like, the torches were lighting the tunnel and the darkness. This time actually took him by surprise. He tells her that this is as far as they go, stuck up against the portcullis unless someone's gonna sneak to let them in, and you know what? No one is. As we enter this cave, there's something really eerie going on here that I feel is very Freudian.

So in Freud's essay on the uncanny, he talks about the Heimlich and the Unheimlich. The idea that what is familiar becomes unfamiliar and therefore uncanny and a little scary, right? And here in this place, in the cave you're in entering this liminal space where both birth and life exists at the same time uh as well as death and i think shakespeare of thrones actually covers that quite well but here in this cave right and the cave of course uh is a euphemism at times for the vagina and melisre, and this is something that Freud explores quite a lot too, and you'll see it quite a bit in even other stories, right? Edgar Allan Poe's interested in things like that. Or even the earth itself and the cave is, of course, in some ways, the vagina of the earth. I wish I were kidding. I'm not really kidding. there's a lot of that this episode but the womb and the tomb become one here right and that's again some really freudian things going on but also as we said at the end of last episode this is a keystone chapter in the books that stone in the middle of the

architectural arch that's bridging a lot of things holding a lot of things in this book together thematically but in terms of parallels with other things, right? We talked about those questions about morality. Obviously, that stretches across this whole series. We have prophecies in this chapter that are tying together the beginning of the books, right? Such as what was seen when it came to Renly, and it holds this book together with things that happen later on in terms of the Blackwater. It all comes together here, but it also ties other things together, such as, for example, the aforementioned parts about Theon and the Rubicon. And then we have the infiltration of Storm's End with an

assassin, right? And this magic, and it actually feels very similar to another thing that's happening in this book with Jaqen Hin Hagar in Harrenhal, right? He and Arya, they go into Harrenhal and then bring death, especially with the mysterious circumstances around Courtney Penrose's, the mysterious circumstances around like a bazillion different deaths, right? In Harrenhal. And then we also have the sneaking of a baby. Here it's a shadow baby, right? Into a place that is so fortified. It's a poison gift or child

that's later going to kill. And it actually reminds me a bit of the story that we also get in the same book from Jon's chapters of Bael the Bard's child being brought into Winterfell. Great points, especially when you consider

again that R'hllor's gift is actually this assassination is a gift from R'hllor, right? I'm sure that Melisandre would say, happy birthday. That's the baby shower gift. Exactly. And Jaqen H'ghar gives a gift as well in Harrenhal. Oh, you're right. Yeah.

So it is a gift, again, coming back to that faceless men kind of parallel. And of course, you bring up Bail the Bard, which is coming up in just a bit for the Jon chapters, which we covered before. And that even has some of the hints of what Stannis' plot is going to encompass in the future, right? It's going to revolve around the North. And Davos' plot, as well, revolves around the Siguric the Deceiver plot from the Bail the bard story over in skagos a skagosi hero davos is chasing that very tail so to speak that direwolf tail if you will so really good call outs really good thoughts to put this into context melisandre asks davos if they're within the walls and he confirms that they are and so her answer comes physically because she shrugs out of her robe and she gets naked and she is bursting with child.

God's preserve us, he whispered and heard her answering laugh deep and throaty. Her eyes were hot coals and the sweat that dappled her skin seemed to glow with a light of its own. Melisandre shone. Panting, she squatted and spread her legs. Blood ran down her thighs, black as ink. Her cry might have been agony or ecstasy or both, and Davos saw the crown of the child's head push its way out of her. Two arms wriggled free, grasping, black fingers coiling around Melisandre's straining thighs, pushing, until the whole of the shadow slid out into the world and rose taller than Davos, tall as the tunnel, towering above the boat. He had only an instant to look at it before it was gone, twisting between the bars of the porticolis and racing across the surface of the water. But that instant was long

enough. He knew that shadow as he knew the man who'd cast it. Spoopy. So a couple things. There's that agony and ecstasy there that comes back. I'm not going to dwell too long

on this. With the St. Teresa imagery that we discussed that we discussed um i think in the first davos chapter with the azorahai myth and again those are these those two opposite things becoming one like the womb and the tomb birth and life but also most importantly i want to know how melisandre's cloak like how big was that cloak right how come this entire time throughout this whole chapter no one could tell that like she was super pregnant the whole time not even Davos when they were on the boat like and how how thick are people's cloaks usually right why don't why doesn't anyone know that Melisandre's like bursting with child as the imagery says I want to say that it was like scarlet silks too and silk isn't very forgiving.

It's not. Unless she was wearing like ten layers of it? I don't know. I don't know. Well, maybe that's where all of Stannis' money is really going. You know, red ass bitch. It's like still summertime-ish, you know? She's not like, and they're in the south, it's not like she's wearing like, my understanding

like a huge wool cloak or fur cloak that's gonna hide all that. Listen, maybe it, like a huge wool cloak or fur cloak that's going to hide all that. Listen, maybe it's like in The Sims. In The Sims, it's three days. Your trimesters are one a day, and it's three days. And then you birth the kid. And if you have cheats installed and mods installed, you can force the birth to happen early. And maybe that's what she did.

And, you know, Stannis is a Republican, so he'd be into that, you know, for her to make sure she had the kid no matter what was happening. Wow. I digress. Something about the language here. He says he knew that shadow as he knew the man who'd cast it. I know that kind of like, it's kind of saying that he knows it. He knows the man who cast the shadow right now but it also has that tense yes that past tense of as he knew once knew as he once knew this man who had

cast this shadow and obviously it does not tell us the language does not tell us it's stannis but it does it gives itself away that the shadow looks like stannis because davos knew what stannis looked like uh and it does feel like very i don't know it just feels very past tense like davos is like i don't fucking know this guy anymore he straight up lied to my face and said like no i didn't kill my brother no i'm not gonna kill courtney penrose and then here he is in shadow form coming out of Melisandre's vagina, the last place he crawled inside of. And he's crawling on out. Yeah, the shadow realm.

Okay, settle down. Blue dragon, ice eyes. Ice eyes, blue dragon. What is it called? Duel. I don't know. Baby blades. Rip it. Let him rip. Shadow baby blades. Let him rip rip uh no it's yukio but i'm i'm

on bay blades now so the language in the shadow baby reminds me of another very recent supernatural birth right in the last book at the end of the book the flames writhed before her like the women who had danced at her wedding whirling and singing and spitting their yellow and orange and crimson veils. Fearsome to behold, yet lovely, so lovely, alive with heat. Dany opened her arms to them, her skin flushed and glowing. This is a wedding too, she thought. This feels very much like when Dany gave birth to the dragons in a few ways, right? Like she's giving birth to flame, which is flesh,

and Melisandre is giving birth to smoke and shadows here. Specifically, of course, in the flames writhing around her. And interestingly enough, we had that line from Florent in Davos 1 where he was like, ah, I saw maidens in their yellow dresses dancing. And here, Dany compares the flames dancing like the woman who danced at her wedding whirling in their yellow orange and crimson veils absolutely and i think that's really interesting it's a great contrast because here you know in that birth that you're talking about with danny it's completely encompassed in light whereas this one's in the darkness right and something else

that is interesting is there's this language briefly here where danny of course is a queen santa is a king and we have regarding the the birth and davos saw the crown of the child's head push its way out of her and of course course, yes, I know that when children, when babies are being born, it's called like the crowning as the head comes out, but for George to use that language feels really pointed in terms of what Stannis is trying to get here.

Of course, you know, in terms of trying to seize that power, after all, power resides where men believe it does as very says in this very book that's another thing that's another thing that comes up in this book that whole idea of shadows power influence and shadows can kill oftentimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow but i guess this one's what not that large of a shadow it's like an average stannis size shadow it's very literal so again another another uh keystone moment in this chapter

it's weird you point out that the crowning was so pointed because they should really start forming the baby's head oh you're right as it crowns i understand that maybe you miss flathead wouldn't understand that but I do have a flat head, everyone. I've seen it. I felt it with my own two hands. It's flat as fuck. All right, on to some real shit. Not like the last hour wasn't real shit, but I have more real shit to bring to this podcast.

So Melisandre can't birth her shadow baby without being within the walls of Storm's End to assassinate Courtney Penrose, which brings up a handful of thoughts. Having Melisandre at the parlay, was this also so her pussy knew what to target for the shadow baby? Like, is that... She probably needed to know who Courtney Penrose was. I'd guess. I don't know how the magic works. You know, I don't know how the sausage is made or the shadow baby's made, but I'd guess she I don't know how the magic works. You know, I don't know how the sausage is made or the shadow baby's made, but I guess she'd have to know. Also, is this akin to Alysanne and her dragon then at the wall?

Unable to pass the enchantments? It feels like a similar kind of enchantment. It does. Yeah. As we know, Stannis will eventually burn that big old godswood, but it has a giant godswood. The old gods still rule here legend claims it was built by durin god's grief the first storm king back in the dawn age and he

declared a war against the sea god and the goddess of the wind because they killed his family and guests ruining his wedding to their daughter eleni during god's grief then built castle after castle until the seventh survived the storms. And in A Clash of Kings, chapter 31, Catalan 3, we get, The seventh castle built by Durin that continued to stand against the wrath of the sea god and the goddess of the wind. Some said the children of the forest helped him build it, shaping the stones with magic. Others claimed a small boy told him what he must do, a boy who would grow to be Bran the Builder. Durin's descendants joined the Andals in marriage,

and it's said the Seven, and Seven attempts at building it, mean Seven gods have influenced its sustainability. We get a great look at the greenery of the Stormlands, just really beautiful, and a story of the sea in relation to the Dornish here, in Arianne, the Winds of Winter 2 sample chapter. So spoilers if you have not heard it tune out for just a couple minutes. Dusk found them on the fringes of the rainwood a wet green world where brooks and rivers ran through dark forests and the ground was made of mud and rotting leaves. Huge willows grew along

the watercourses larger than any that A Arian had ever seen, their great trunks as gnarled and twisted as an old man's face and festooned with beards of silvery moss. Trees pressed close on every side, shutting out the sun, hemlock and red cedars, white oaks, soldier pines that stood as tall and straight as towers, colossal sentinels, big-leaf maples, redwoods, worm trees, even here and there a wild weirwood. Underneath their tangled branches, ferns and flowers grew in profusion. Sword ferns, lady ferns, bellflowers and piper's lace, evening stars and poison kisses. Liverwort, lungwort, hornwort, mushrooms sprouted down amongst the tree roots and from their trunks as well.

Pale, spotted hands that caught the rain. Other trees were furred with moss, green or gray or red-tailed, and once a vivid purple. Lichens covered every rock and stone, toadstools festered beside rotting logs. The very air seemed green. Arian had once heard her father and Maester Calliote arguing with the Septon about why the north and south sides of the Sea of Dorne were so different. The Septon thought it was because of Durin Godscreef, the first Storm King who had stolen the daughter of the Sea God and the Goddess of the Wind and earned their eternal enmity. Prince Dorin and the Maester inclined more toward wind and water, and spoke of how the big storms

that formed down in the summer sea would pick up moisture moving north until they slammed into Cape Wrath. For some strange reason, the storms never seemed to strike at Dorne. She recalled her father saying, I know your reason, Decepton had responded. No Dornishman ever stole away

the daughter of two gods. Stannis seems to be toying with the daughter of a new god and as we later learn he and this daughter burned down the gods wood which feels like one of the most deeply magical places of this castle and it feels very likely it was a mix of children of the forest and probably brand the builder in some iteration with them interestingly enough that in that in Storm's End history, daughters like Argella Durandon seems to be a sacrifice, and Eleni, obviously. And heck, Storm's End history, I guess Shireen will be added to that as well. But there is so much history here, right? Jaehaerys was proclaimed king by Rojar here, hastening Maegor's downfall. Lucerys Velaryon gets killed

here as Rhaenyra's envoy when Aemond arrives on Vhagar, Arax, his dragon, dying as well. Aemond had earlier enjoyed the hunting grounds immensely at Dance's start. The dance of the dragons start. Poor suckers, though, because Lucerys was dead from the start as soon as he set foot, as soon as he touched down off that dragon, dumb idiot. And of course, Prince Daemon Targaryen, Rhaenyra's husband, suggested that Storm's End be granted to the lowborn Ser Ulf White later, an idea that shocked Lord Corlys Velaryon. And Baelor Targaryen recuperated at Storm's End for a year injured in Dorne.

So there's a lot of history happening at Storm's End for a year injured in Dorne. So there's a lot of history happening at Storm's End and I can definitely see some parallels to the current plot as far as the Dance of the Dragons and things going on at Storm's End and with Aegon invading in the Winds of Winter, I'm very interested to see where it takes us.

I will say that at least Elenia and Argella lived, right? Yeah, and didn't burn alive. Nope, they didn't. They actually didn't. So, well, shit. But yeah, as you said, Storm's End is quite a landmark. Lots of history.

Pretty important. Especially important to Stannis' heart. He held it for a while and almost died in it and starved. It's kind of funny because that's like that's probably the most interesting thing that happens there in my opinion like it's not that it's not interesting it's just i think stannis thinks it's more interesting than it actually is you know it's bigger to his heart to his big old issues going

on i think so i think that you know as we said it's important in the way that winterfell is important to the stark cause and it looks bad if you don't have your seat yeah but also as you were saying you know that's something that we didn't really think about or touch about until now so thank you for all this but like yeah he doesn't want to admit that like it has sentimental value like this is he says to davos it's my home but he doesn't like go into like yo i went through a ton of fucking effort to hold this goddamn place like i deserve it i mean does he or does he not deserve it but like i can imagine him thinking like i deserve this fucking place yeah and maybe like

fucking place yeah and maybe like i don't know maybe no one deserves anything i think that there's an idea that you know in an ideal world people get good things but also at the same time a world that is completely adheres to this justice of all bad acts are punished to the extent that's equal to it right first of all how do you like gauge that second of all that's a nightmare right that's why the idea of mercy is so important in this story even if you keep it at a strict wrath and sullen level of robert versus stannis robert knew that he could pick these people off their feet and add them to their cause. And yes, the way that he did it wasn't perfect and Robert didn't have the best diplomacy in all the realm,

as we already know. However, his reign is still going to last longer compared to what Stannis' reign will last. Damn. And that's the thing I love. Stannis is going to be so bad. He's going to be so bad in the afterlife in the fifth circle of hell when he's stuck with Robert and all

Robert can say was, you know, I held the Iron Throne for a lot longer than that, Stannis. And I drank. Drunk. And fucked. Yeah. Well, I guess that's Davos too. We did it.

Everyone, we crossed our own Rubicon. Yes, we went into the River Styx and somehow we were not stuck in the muddy waters fighting Robert or murking about with Stannis for the rest of our existence. We are changed now,

you know, now we've opened this door, this can of worms. Birth this baby we can never of worms. I would say that... Birth this baby we can never unbirth. Of splitting episodes. The oncoming storm, you know, it arrived. Yep. Yeah.

Well, now that we've split the baby and tossed half of it down the river... Mm-hmm. That's this week's episode. Thanks for listening. You can tune in. next week we will not have a song of ice and fire episode we will be releasing la belle sauvage episode two to the public you guys will enjoy it i can't wait for you to hear it but if you want to catch up with us on social media feel free to tweet at us or send us a dm at girls gone canon c-a-n-o-n

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Yes, where people share their recipes not me um well i share some of my recipes but someone shared their biscuit recipe recently which is pretty great not gonna give away who you're gonna have to find out and also again patreon we have special episodes and you know the labelle sauvage episode that's coming out next week previously far far released in advance for patrons. And this month we are doing a Historic Materials episode where we will be covering Lyra's Oxford, the novella, and that will be this month's

special patron episode. Yes. Thanks again for tuning in. As always, I have been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana. And you're gonna be another one of my hosts next week, Chloe. And I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana. And you're gonna be another one of my hosts

next week, too. Yeah. You know, I don't think we said sapeech really much this episode. We really should have. The sapeech. There was no sapeech, and that's a drag, but you know what? We're just gonna have to wait till next week. Maybe we'll get a new fruit. Whose fruit is it anyway

bye see y'all later i had to think about that