Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 112 - ASOS Davos V

Episode Date: January 8, 2021

Many theatrics surround the difficult choice put forth before Stannis as he thinks of dragon wings above Westeros for the low bargain price of Edric Storm's life. Davos thinks of the perils of playing politics and how to be a Hand when he reads some dark words sent by dark wings.  --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Can, A Song of Ice and Fire, Episode 112, Babbo Seaworth in A Storm of Swords, chapter 5. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. Happy New Year, everyone. Happy New Year, everyone, Eliana. Eliana especially, hello. I just feel like I haven't seen you since last year.

That's true not true we were on minero tv stream on january 1st together and i gazed upon your lovely face there it was on youtube it was a ginger ale talk it was highly inappropriate i know a handful of you may have caught it if you follow our social medias uh you may have seen it and jumped on there and seen some highly inappropriate talk that may or may not have had to deal with a red bursting veiny dragon dildo

and a sword and the night kink is what they called it dildo it was a lusty stream you know Monero doesn't leave them up for public consumption because sometimes if you visit Monero Geek TV's YouTube, you can find streams where people are saying inappropriate things that they may not want on the internet after they say it. And I appreciate her for that. She's a she uh she takes care of us in our heart she does and you know what i mean i stand by anything that i said but at the same time i i

i do i stand by it chloe but i'm glad she has taken them down as well uh so technically we didn't record in a way you know we did not. So this is it. This is it. This is our first real official on the record recording of 2021. We're feeling fine. We're with Davos in a storm of swords. Davos 5. He's not in cells

for once. This is good. This is a good time for Davos. Maybe. Maybe. Ah! It's a difficult time for Davos. Dav. It's a difficult time for Davos. Davos is having a hard time. Having a hard life. He does have a hard life. He's lost four sons.

Whose fault was that? I mean, there was a lot of people involved. The feudal system they live in, Eliana. That is what I was looking for. The jade demon at the Blackwater that was actually great imagery you know Nauticast is going through the Blackwater

right now they're about to get to Sansa and Tyrion they just finished some Davos episodes if you're listening you may or may not know we hit up Davos and the Blackwater but they just got through it they had some some really great, some great war analysis. If you're into the battle aspects, please go check out Nauticast podcast in those episodes,

because as Eliana and I stake our claims, we are not war analysts, right? We're kind of the opposite. We're hippies in a way, you know, we're the people, the war analysts are next to us, quite literally in my case and I'm sitting here like give peace a chance don't sell Dragonstone's oil

or King's Landing's oil so I mean go check them out if you want to hear about the oil sales but Chloe watching her cats and the quarrels give peace a chance that's what happens in Rome I used to try the water bottle but now they sneer at me

they straight up look at me and they just look at me like how dare you we're not doing anything wrong and they don't move so they're teenagers now they're teenagers and we're gonna see a couple of snarky teenagers in this episode well pre-teens which is also its own

tweens depending on how you feel whichever terminology you prefer uh before we get there though we did get an email of note actually technically two emails of note from our friend daniel daniel sent us an email earlier on about sanza and with a lot of great thoughts and i i really quite like them but to quote george i'm going to tell dan Daniel to keep reading or if you will keep listening because I think you'll find that we're quite aligned and

some of those ideas we do talk about in our Sansa Wins episode. The Elaine Wins episode. Yeah I especially love the email Daniel sent us titled Men's Lives Have Meanings and Women and Envy's Lives Have Meanings, and women, and MDs' lives as well, obviously.

And they said, In a recent episode, you talked about the quote about men's deaths having no meanings, but men's lives. You gave examples of how you feel the quote's wrong, at least sometimes, like in Donald Noy's case. I wanted to share my own perspective and how I've personally read that quote. In my reading, the quote is asserting the death itself has no meaning. Dying is not meaningful by itself. The meaning comes from the life, who the person was, what they chose to do

that led to their death. This meaning can come from the lives that were saved thanks to that sacrifice. The men in men's lives and the men in men's death are not necessarily the same men so if we look at donald noy his death was not what was meaningful necessarily it was his life and how he chose to sacrifice it it was the lives of his brothers and the people of the realm that he died protecting a good contrast to that is ned's initial choice to die and not lie about Joffrey. Only when Varys reminds him of Sansa, Ned realizes Sansa's life and safety is what's important. His death would have no meaning, but Sansa's life definitely does. Would love to hear your thoughts. Keep it up. Daniel. Yeah, I thought this was a really insightful email and, you know, expands well on what we

were discussing. Technically, it's not a recent episode if any of you are here with us in Davos. This was probably recent. Daniel is starting from the beginning, catching up to us here in 2021. So I don't actually know where we are. It sounds like maybe we discussed this in one of the Jon episodes is my guess. But I don't really know. And yeah, I don don't know I just thought this was really good and it's something that I think is really interesting in the context of all of the characters in terms of what they do that leads up to their death if any of them die

and it's just a good way of looking at it yeah interestingly enough it has a lot of resonance for this Davos chapter that we're currently approaching with Stannis' decision around Edric Storm, right? And there were a couple ways we could have done this chapter. We could have joined it up with Davos 6 if we really wanted to get crazy, just because this chapter's a little brief, right? It's the before, the calm, before. Next chapter is definitely the storm,

the Edric Storm, so to speak to speak wow you can't fire me you can only hire me give me a raise it's 2021 i'm swinging coming and swinging eliana uh but it is it's the edrick storm and it's not important davos decides by the end of this chapter we don't necessarily get the resolution of his decision until davos 6 in A Storm of Swords, but Davos decides that Edric's life has meaning, right? And he's willing to risk it all in 2021 or 299-300 AC to get Edric to safety. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, Edric Storm, it's really interesting because I think Edric Storm's fate is also talked about in this level, kind of with Joffrey's, right? Daniel talks about Joffrey and the lies surrounding Joffrey as well, as a bastard.

And, you know, do we apply this saying, right, to Joffrey? Do men's lives have meaning, right? Children's lives, whatever. And how that all goes. So I just thought that it was a great extrapolation. Yeah, a really meaningful email thank you so much daniel and we look forward to more of your thoughts as you finally get through the podcast yes to have you aboard well you know before we talk about the storm the baratheon storm we got a lightning round ahead of us yes and of course this is a specialized lightning

round i'm skipping a few things in between we're gonna skip around we're gonna cover jamie tyrian john danny catalan and of course return at the end of tyrian but first up we have jamie five where jamie and brienne bathe in his past before being brought to ruseton. Tyrion 5. Tyrion meets the Dornish faction in King's Landing. Jon 5. Jon must turn his cloak on his brand new family. Daenerys 4. The Stormcrows join Daenerys's cause and they take Yunkai in the night. She is called Mother by the Freedmen. Jaime 6. Jaime forgets something at Harrenhal, and he must return to protect it. Catelyn 5. Robb's crew makes its way

through Oldstones to Hagsmyre, and Robb reminds his mother that he is the king. Jon 6. Jon evacuates Molstown, reaching Castle Black. Catelyn 6 and Catelyn 7. We're really gonna combine both of these

in this lightning round. We are. Greywind's howls foreshadow the long night to come, and Lord Bolton's entrance brings dark words from the north as well. But something is wrong at the wedding feast, and Catelyn recognizes it quickly. Jaime Lannister gives his regards.

I want to denote that there was something i was going to make you perform eliana but i saved you at the last moment and this was a rendition of jamie lannister gives his regards to rob way instead of broadway to rob way remember him chloe has lyrics here do you want to perform it or it's a remember him to torrent square i didn't go farther than that but uh that's why i decided you didn't need to perform it it's got potential we'll think about it for something else girls gone canon the musical episode we kind of did that for his start materials we did in a way yeah a swap is to come a swap is to come it is a song of ice and fire well you already have your musical you have your west

roast the musical well maybe we'll put some more music in it but for now that leaves us with tyrian six in our lightning round tyrian is upset he can't unload all of his hard-worked life on his unsuspecting child bride. His life gets instantly harder when he goes to a work meeting and learns that the same unsuspecting child bride's family just got murdered. Again. Rough. Davos 5. The king says he will not burn the child, but deep within the onion knight's heart, he doesn't know if he believes his grace. Davos learns significant knowledge in his lessons with Maester Pylos. Damn, you're out here like, we gotta respect Maester Pylos. I didn't write Maester to Eliana. It's like, Maester Pylos. I'm a Maester Pylos fan after this chapter. I was like, who am I? Again, who am I? But Pylos is actually legitimately, I think,

uncontroversial. It's 2021. New year, new you. Yeah, that's true. But is it, I mean, like, last year, or the year before, I was like, ill in pain, Stan. Maybe this is a step up. This is not the last POV this year, so. That's true.

Well, you know, as we enter Davosos five i do want to say up top that people including myself have often discussed stannis in the context of shakespeare but many people much more in depth i'm just like throw away reddit comment um but also stannis in the context of plays in general right and i think that this chapter especially in the first half of the quick dialogue back and forth really drives those those scenes and drives the action there. It feels very much like something out of a play. And I think there's even like a comical sort of exaggerated nature to some of the characters' actions, especially in Selyse and Axel. But just all around it, the scene carries this really ominous vibe, quite like many of the scenes in Macbeth, which I say and it's a very interestingly

written and strong chapter I knew you were going to say it it hurt me it hurt me life superstitions are for small men and it's funny because I tower over you you know, last episode when we had

quinn on for davos four and a storm of swords quinn from quinn's ideas that was at the last but quinn read out the entire beautiful monologue where melisandre does the leeches with stanny and davos and i personally am used to my lovely co-hosts amazing rendition of alessandra i was very hungover at ice and fire con in i believe 2019 and eliana actually did a scene with a couple of our friends in the uh the it's like a little talent parade show thing there's no i don't know it's what what we call it the costume contest parade it's like a little talent parade show thing. There's no, I don't know, it's what we call it, the costume contest parade. It's like a variety show or something. The variety show.

I don't know, but Eliana did a great job. Eliana wore this beautiful burgundy wig and she was all like, I am Melisandre, your grace. She was all like very, I don't know, very bombshell-y and it was wonderful. But that's what I'm used to hearing in my head is Ariana as Melisandre. So hearing Quinn do the leech scene was very fun. But I'm ready to have you do some strong Melisandre

as we go through the rest of these chapters. I don't know that I did that great a job, but so we were joined on the stage. I was joined by Scott, who I think had this idea. maybe he's the one who put it together from davos fingers and also seth another one of our friends from the con who does a lot of theater both of them do a lot of acting in theater and they're interested in

that i don't know what i was doing but i found out i look great in red hair that's the takeaway it was a nice cool burgundy but yes uh something about these scenes have like this overacting right like it feels like a uh a performance it does a game of thrones convention i mean it feels like a really overacted like on purpose and i think dragon stone in general is probably especially in this chapter with the details we get, one of the most set-like pieces, right? Yeah. And even just the way that the scenes work, right? And how it gets driven in the first part of this chapter.

Yeah. Well, to set the stage. Robb Stark died at his wedding. That is the first thing we open the chapter with. That was the subject of the last chapter for Tyrion. And Davos is like, like wow this is a curse axel and celise are on their knees they're like singing their praises to the lore and stannis is standing there and he says i have my doubts this was walder frey's work not real lore and

celise is crying out at her god's greatness but stannis finally hushes her. And he says, I plan to offer pardons to those who have bent the knee if they join me. They'll repent and see. Melisandre bursts this planning bubble. She says, more false kings will rise up to take their place soon. Stannis isn't happy to hear what she's been seeing in her flames. Granted, I guess he thinks that Rob's younger brothers, right, and all of them are missing, but like, Stannis

just, you know, he gets reminded of it in the next chapter, but he really forgot that Tommen existed for like a good few months there. Yeah, it makes sense. I guess everyone forgets Tommen exists for a little bit there. That's true. I mean, he becomes the puppet king. cersei

forgets about tom and even cersei forgets and i appreciate that right because so melisandre is kind of realistic in this chapter this might be due to our post a dance with dragons pov reveal right like after we get through a dance with dragons you realize huh maybe melisandre knows some stuff we don't and maybe we know some stuff she doesn't and maybe melisandre knows some stuff we don't and maybe we know some stuff she doesn't and maybe melisandre could work with us to do good things could be good she's not so bad after all so big outlook change right but here she says this and i think she's right it reminds me a lot of the moon of the three kings like even if stannis isn't chosen right now as like azor ahai as a figure of azor ahai it doesn't matter what happens to him because there are dozens of characters that could take

his place like the moon of the three kings in the dance of the dragons with tristane truefire gaiman palehair and of course the shepherd fire and blood had a lot of really fun sandbox play from george of him just testing out ideas and character traits on similar characters and just seeing how it worked. And The Moon of the Three Kings specifically is one of those with these three different people who are all parading as kings and kings landing. It's fun. It almost one-to-one sets up with Tommen, Aegon, and the Sparrow, right? As far as Trystane, Truefire, Aegon, possibly Blackfire, Gaemon, Palehair as Tommen, the Sparrow, the Shepherd.

Absolutely. And I mean, you know, these aren't the only kings, right, that will pop up in their place. There's just going to be so many, even a couple, a couple of queens, perhaps. As, I mean, Littlefinger seems to think so. Things are only going to get more interesting from here on out melisandre says that sometimes though she does get things wrong however this time there is no wrong there's this idea that pardons and envoys will not serve him no more than leeches and then melisandre tries to apply him by saying if sometimes i have mistaken a warning for a prophecy

or a prophecy for a warning, the fault lies in the reader, not the book. I know, this is such clever. I mean, it's very clever to have finally these little hints of Melisandre's readings coming through and how, hey, I'm not fallible. I'm also human-ish, like you people. I may be a priestess, but I'm still made of similar internal things.

But at the same time, this is George's clever little nod. If sometimes I've mistaken a warning for a prophecy or a prophecy for a warning, the fault lies in the reader, not the book. And I just wonder who this is applying to. Could it be you? Could it be someone else? Could it be someone listening? We don't know. The fault lies in the reader, not the book. And I just wonder who this is applying to. Could it be you? Could it be someone else? Could it be someone listening? We don't know. The fault lies in the reader, not the book. Could even be George saying Dothraki instead of

Dothraki. Or Brienni as he wants to pronounce it according to his blog from like the 90s. I think he finally changed his mind. Yeah. That's wrong. Originally, you thought Voidotris's pronunciation was bad. No, George was like, it should be pronounced Bri-enny.

Okay. I don't like that. I don't like that. I hate it. It reminds me of like, I don't know, Bryony or something, but like, yeah, it's not great, George. It's not great. I mean, okay. But yeah, absolutely, this is about

Melisandre and her readings and owning up to that. And it kind of makes me think that, you know, maybe she and Stannis did discuss and bicker a little bit about what happened at the Blackwater. And that whole prophecy versus warning thing. Especially because she says that Stannis has to show the realm a sign that proves his power after this. And it's obvious like she she feels a little fallible at this point and he snorts at this he doesn't have power he says he has 1600 men no coin no glory salise of course chooses this time to pipe up saying you have more men than aegon the conqueror. You just don't have any dragons.

He gives her the darkest look. He's like, Here's a history lesson, dear waifu. Here are the failures of Aegon III, Baelor the Blessed, Aegon IV, Eirion Brightflame, and she's like, no, none of them were R'hllor's chosen one, though. No comet streaked the sky

for them. They didn't have light bring her husband. And she adds, none of them paid the price. Only death can pay for life. Yes, they want the boy, Stannis realizes and surmises from this conversation. This time,

Stannis' history lesson is in fact accurate. I think it's interesting that Stannis brings up A is in fact accurate. I think it's interesting that Stannis brings up Arian's attempt here, yet actually doesn't end up mentioning Egg, aka Aegon V's attempt to resurrect dragons, which I know is kind of murky. It's not necessarily confirmed, and it's not accepted by everyone historically in Westeros, right? But Alistair Florin does actually bring it up with that sort of intimation in the dungeons when he's with Davos, right? But Alistair Florent does actually bring it up with that sort of intimation in the dungeons when he's with Davos. And I think that there's very obvious, clear,

symbolic comparisons between Arian and Stannis' attempts, right, of bringing back dragons or doing whatever it takes, especially with the vision that Stannis discloses that he had seen to Davos later in this chapter, you you know and like the idea of setting oneself afire in order to pursue dragons but i think that there also are some comparisons with agon the fifth who brought near ruin on his house and the deaths of like a majority of his family in the pursuit of dragons as well just as stanis seems to kind of be on the path to yeah i think that's a significant omission from his thoughts and i do wonder if stannis doesn't confront that because stannis doesn't want to confront that

i think a lot of people don't want to confront that i think a lot of people regard stannis as the king who cared the the only good king who wants to drain the swamp right left in the continent and i think agon was that king right he tried to make wonderful policies to help small folk uh and he was the jfk right he's the westerosi jfk and agon unfortunately fell to the dragon head right he fell to the call of the dragon that each of these targaryens including baler including aryan including these men stanis talks about these same men had that same thought but agon is like agon the fifth is like nobody really wants to say it because you read the hedge knight you read the sworn sword you read the mystery knight and you're like it's ag dude it's ag it's a little ag that's all yeah no one wants

to admit that stanis least of all and i i think that's the thing right first of all it's not like i said it's not accepted i think history history in all of westeros like in universe right it's disputed as to whether or not that's what happened just like there are disputes as to what really happened in Robert's Rebellion but for Egg you know as you said he's well-intentioned right he pursues these righteous policies and we have some of that information even from the World of Ice and Fire book and it seems like you know he wanted dragons because he had these ideas of what he wanted Westeros to be that were in many ways better but a lot of the lords wanted to hold on to their power and were unwilling to make some of

those concessions right and dragons would have allowed him to do what he wanted and you know this is something that I've been thinking as I was reading this chapter you know they they echo later on this idea that Stannis is a just man. And I think George would say that as well. The term that he tends to use, even though he wrote all these books, right? And so he also says that Stannis is a just man by virtue of being the author. But he says Stannis is a righteous man. But I think, you know, if we flip those words a little, right? It's not that the tragedy behind Stannis is very much driven by the fact that stannis is a just man but it's also the idea of stannis is just a man galaxy brain no it's true and i think there's a lot of that discussion in this chapter

right of being just a man compared to being a god especially in the setting right in dragon stone you can't just live on dragon stone or have a whole campaign hosted on dragon stone and not expect to feel its effects absolutely and i think that's something that's gonna come forward more in the later books this idea of what does it mean to have godlike powers? What does it mean to have so much power in general? And we'll talk about power a little in this episode, but for now, Stannis tells them that he's sick of the boy. He was sick of the boy before he was even born. And Melisandre beckons him to give them Edric,

and they can end this boy's plague on Stannis, and he'll never have to hear his name spoken again, even though they're not using his name right now. And Axel goes down to one knee, and he's just like, Please, Stannis, please do it. Wake the stone dragon. Burn that kid. He's so into it.

And then Slyz is also very into it. She goes on to her knees. She's wailing. And she's begging for the foul fruit of Robert and Delaina's fornications to be burned. And that if he lifts this shadow from her womb she's like if you burn this kid I know I'm gonna pop out some suns that's not how it works it's not

it's literally a gamble it's literally like a jerk and a gamble like girl Solis honey honey honey we need to chat she stresses me out she's very stressful Soleste stresses me out i am stressed because of celeste she like straight up the language it's the foul fruit of his fornications

it's really fucked up what do you think about it because all these grown-ass adults in their 40s 30s 50s are all on their knees begging for a 13 year old, 12 year old, whatever boy who just has a little too much charisma to be burnt, right? They're like, if you burn him, we're gonna get giant petrified winged monsters to come to life. That's gonna be fun in the Winds of Winter when this, you know, progresses, because they're not going to get better, is my whole thought, right? Like these characters are not going to get better is my whole thought right like these characters are not going to get better and we've already seen them getting worse right we covered that in the john chapters and sleaze is pretty insufferable there's axel yeah he's doing

whatever the fuck he's doing he's wilding out like in dance like you can tell that as he thinks of this drunk on power absolutely and you can tell as he thinks of this. You drunk on power. Absolutely. And you can tell as he thinks of burning Edric, right? Because he loves burning people. He's, like, all about trying to burn people right now on, like, this. Straight vibes. Thing. Nothing but vibes. Axel for it.

Absolutely. He's got, like, the biggest heart on. He's like, oh, we're going to burn people. I'm like, no, Axel. No. No. Stop. Not now.

No. Yeah. This is, like, big Ares Targaryen vibes and selise right so it's actually a little more interesting than axel and that i feel that she's kind of a dark mirror in some ways for stannis's desires like selise probably actually is a zealot about relore but the way that she speaks about edrick makes me think that she's actually more upset about the slight from Robert and Delaina. And she's upset in some ways that she just hasn't been as prestigious as she'd like to be in general. Her inability to fulfill some of those wifely duties, I guess, in bearing a son as well.

Yeah, she absolutely must feel limited, right? Like she hasn't been able to provide and fulfill those duties and uh it's interesting that people villainize salise so much but yet they praise stannis right because stannis's entire power trip is over that robert never laid a hand towards him you know like that he could never catch up with robert's ghost as we're going to discuss later uh that that's it and i mean celeste feels pretty shitty because you know her cousin fucked the king in her marriage bed i would feel shitty no no everyone's out there like yeah you know robert robert did fuck up and stanis should feel shitty about how he was treated but no one gives a shit about celeste they just are like she's got a mustache bad person bad person for having a mustache she's a bad person but not because of the mustache exactly and it's

it's normalized not giving a fuck but i haven't waxed my mustache in years it's over you had one but yeah i mean we all do i have one we But it's there. They gave her one in the comics, you know. Did they? I didn't actually see it. I didn't look at the Clash of Kings. I only read the GOT comics. The AGOT comics. I have some of them. Yeah, I had it on my pull list for a while.

So I have a couple of the Clash of Kings comics. And Selyse has her mustache on there. Well, it is a character trait. comics and salise has a has her mustache on there well it is a character trait stannis rejects axel and salise's begging and pleading once more he says edrick is of my blood and he untangles himself from their grasp saying whatever the truth of the night the boy is not at fault for what has become of your lives this is very self-aware from staniel um i hope staniel keeps this attitude i know he won't because i brought the books but uh this is very self-aware i just don't know if he feels the same about himself right like the boy is not at fault for what has become of your lives is this

a more exaggerated version of the tension between caitlin and Ned when it comes to Jon, especially when Stannis is saying that Edric is of his blood and Ned himself also saying Jon is of his blood. I literally have never thought of it this way until this moment of you saying it. It does feel like that, right?

Especially because Cat as a character feels very unyielding, right? Break before she bends, comes back from the dead, right? Because of thanks to the Lord. Interesting. I never put that together. Yeah, I mean, I didn't until now when you were like, he is of my blood.

And so I was like, oh, and nephews, you know? Oh, yeah. Nephews. Nephews. Bastards. Bastard nephews. Highborn bastard nephews who are in line for the throne things are gonna get interesting this year i know they're gonna get interesting

melisandre put her hand on the king's arm the lord of light cherishes the innocent there is no sacrifice more precious from his king's blood and his untainted fire, a dragon shall be born. Stannis did not pull away from Alessandra's touch, as he had from his queen's. The red woman was all that Selyse was not. Young, whole body, strangely beautiful with her heart-shaped face, coppery hair, and unearthly red eyes. It would be a wondrous thing to see stone come to life, he admitted, grudging. And to mount a dragon. I remember the first time my father took me to court.

Robert had to hold my hand. I could not have been older than four, which would have made him five or six. We agreed afterward that the king had been as noble as the dragons were fearsome. Stannis snorted. Years later, our father told us Ares had cut himself on the throne that morning, so his hand had taken his place. It was Tywin Lannister who'd so impressed us. His fingers touched the surface of the table, tracing a path lightly across the varnished hills. Robert took the skulls down when he donned the crown, but he could not bear to have them destroyed. Dragon wings over Westeros. There would be such a... dragon roams over Westeros. There would be such a... That pause.

Yo, that's a pregnant pause right there. That is a... If you don't know the truth about Stannis and the king, if you don't know the truth about Stannis and the king, if you don't know the truth about Stannis and the king,

if you don't know the truth about Stannis and the king, if you don't know the truth about Stannis and the king, if you don't know the truth about Stannis and the king, if you don't know the truth about Stannis and the king,

if you don't know the truth about Stannis and the king, if you don't know the truth about Baratheon at this point, this is it. That line lingering in the air. There would be such a... Stannis is still lingering on Robert holding his hand in the crowd. There would be such a... Stannis is still lingering on

Robert, holding his hand in the crowd of King's Landing, and the idea of stone dragons and power and being able to command all of the crowds, all of the nation with just his power. That's... There would be such a...

Ugh. Yeah. that was a fucking passage that is a that like moment between there would be such a and before Davos interjects is it's telling Stannis wants power yeah he wants to be admired he wants to be loved

loved absolutely he's already feared true he's already in the good way no he wants to be loved and overall and i think that's what this scene is about right like i hadn't paid much attention to this like specific lines uh before and i'll come back to it again in a different context context in this chapter about davis's role. But one of the things, right, it's quite interesting how Stannis' experience here mirrors the way that Jon first saw and perceived Jaime Lannister in Winterfell, right? It's another Lannister, and he's like, that's what a king should look like, and Stannis thinks that when he sees Tywin. And then Stannis, you know, laughs because he's like, oh, we got it wrong, right? At this

moment. He actually laughs quite a bit and snorts quite a bit in this chapter. But I do think that it's important for another reason, right? Talking about that love, like we discussed last episode with Quinn, how this big motivating factor in Stannis' life is chasing after Robert's ghost. He brings Robert again over and over and over when it comes to edrick right he will talk about edrick's name he'll say the boy but he talks about robert that's the big thing in his mind when he thinks about edrick and i mean when we leave stannis here davos doesn't think about robert but stannis brings him up all the time in his dialogue and here he's recalling his relationship with robert this really strained brotherhood that

they had and how he felt that robert disrespected him on a night that should have been about him and it should have right to stanis's defense and and you know even seliza's feelings earlier right robert kind of did the equivalent of like maybe a wedding guest right wearing white to a wedding and upstaging the bride it's a dick move it is a dick move i mean yeah it's widely disrespectful i used to be out there for robert like you know listen like he had a hard life but as i've gone to understand the baratheon brothers even further i'm like i can't sit for that boys boys. I'm sorry. No, I don't. Yeah, I don't support Robert. He was he did a bad job in life. He wasn't great.

Yeah. And he had a hard life, too. But that doesn't excuse it. Same with Stannis. Yeah. Robert could have tried harder. And that basically tells him with his eyes. You could have tried harder.

He like tries to tell him as much as he can. He's like, what are you talking about we have responsibilities but that is not how john aaron raised us robert yeah he's like he had a responsibility to me as my older brother right we see the way that rob sark fulfills this for his siblings but robert doesn't and so that stannis brings up this random ass detail of his first visit to king's landing like about robert holding his hand that makes it so much more significant because he's remembering one of the very very few times before everything went awry with their parents saying that robert was in fact the hero

that he needed his older brother to be he held his little brother's hand and made him brave before they saw the dragon king yeah and that is the saddest part about it like that does make me feel so sympathetic toward robert maybe it's because i'll never have siblings i never had them as you understand as you have not had them either it just sounds sad it sounds like a sad relationship between having a brother of your blood i don't know are these words you guys understand if you're listening you understand this i hope you're relating. I hope this is relatable, but coming off of that, the fact that

Stannis remembers, you know, and he's laughing coldly that it was Tywin. We were so impressed by Tywin. We're coming off of that with Tywin committing some pretty shitty murder, right, in the last few chapters. At his hand, at his bequest, at his quill it was

tywin he doesn't know though he doesn't know right but stannis now is sitting here going of course it was tywin running king's landing that we thought was so beautiful acting as if you know tywin is so such a distant character to him, as if it's such a character that he could never legitimately understand or legitimately estimate the responses that Tywin receives or gives. He could never understand them or speak that language. But Stannis here is considering murder. You know, I mean, Stannis is choosing violence,

to use a phrase by Academy Award winning writers David and Dan. They are Academy Award winning writers, aren't they? I'm sure, whatever, they probably are. I was mostly joking. But it is interesting that that's what Stannis took from it overall. Like, he graces over these lines about Robert and he's like, yeah, yeah, Robert held my hand and we were so impressed by Tywin isn't that so funny it was Tywin Davos when Stannis is out here considering like do I pull a Tywin what do I do what do I do no one knows and I think that's that longing you know not just love he he wanted love from Robert but he also wanted respect and I think that's it right

he's like well I can't get respect from love I'm'm unloved. People fear me. And so he's like, should I just double down on the fear aspect, right? And get people to respect me that way. interested in when it comes to the psyche of his characters we see it come up a couple of times in fire and blood but you can see it in a lot of his previous works prior to a song of ice and fire of what happens when you know someone is unloved what do they do to try and get any sort of connection with people and you know i'm going to point y'all to our friend matt aka joe magician who did a an analysis on meat house man by george r R. Martin, which, you know, I think covers a lot of these horrifying ideas, right? And I think, I don't think Stannis is trying to Meat House Man things, but it's a general theme of love versus fear versus respect, connection. And yeah, right? Like Tywin's horrifying. He does these horrible, like violent things. And, but he still projects the idea of nobility, kingship. And I think that's what happens right in Jon's first chapter when he sees Jaime too, but we don't know it then, right? We're still trying to unlearn this idea that what looks like power, what looks like gold, isn't necessarily good. Because a few chapters after Jon sees like, yo, that's what a king should look like Jamie throws his brother off a window there's even that thought of like Aerys and Robert and Tywin under Aerys's reign

and Jon Arryn under Robert's reign right like before Jon Arryn died like yes he was effective but as we learn he left some things unchecked because you know you're only human uh and just a man just a man just a man as we're going to talk about well davos interrupts this sexy little fantasy that stannis is having about dragon wings over the city and he's like can i speak your grace and he he prays to the warrior for bravery inside of him to survive what he's about to say. Not R'hllor does not pray to R'hllor. He tells Stannis, no man is as cursed as the Kinslayer in the eyes of God and men. And Melisandre rebuts that R'hllor is the only god who matters on Yunite.

You know, R'hllor doesn't care about this kid. She basically tells him, she's like, deadass. R'hllor gives no fucks about this child. R'hllor gives fucks and he's like, this child's gonna be delicious for my flames. Delicious. Like, we're gonna wrap this kid in some phyllo dough, maybe butter that phyllo dough up, put some feta, some spinach, right?

And the kid's gonna be in the oven and he's gonna roast for several minutes, right? Thank R'hllor. Thank R'hllor. Sounds delicious. I'm very hungry for spinach pie. Spinach Edric Storm pie! Is it a book too early? Are we not at a Dance with Dragons

in Skagos yet? No, I'm just kidding. We're a couple books too early, but yeah. I do think it's significant and kind of a neat little bow on this chapter. Davos bringing up kinslaying here because it's another one of those big societal taboos in the Westeros. And it's a chapter that opens up with one of those taboos being broken. The guest right taboo. And then Melisandre's like, what have small men cursed what they cannot understand?

And Davos is like, well, I'm small then. And plays her game. And asks him to explain to such a small man then why she needs Edric Storm to create this dragon. And he tries to make it important by continuing to say Edric's name. Because he just keeps saying, the boy, the boy, the boy. There's a scene where everyone goes, the boy, the boy like literally in this chapter and davis is like it's edrick storm and besides the obvious humanizing effect of saying edrick storm right the importance of names in in this story in general i think that the story says that there's a lot of importance in a name overall

right it's really at the forefront packs the most emotional punch i would say in theon's storyline for me uh when it comes to the power that names hold when it comes to humanity and identity and agency but you know it's also significant coming from davos who has struggled to remember his own title his sons had to remind him often and goes between like sir davos lord davos onion knight? He's someone who would be aware of the power of names. Yeah, it's interesting you say that, especially when you brought up some of the Catelyn parallels,

as far as Jon, right? As far as Jon being the boy. And Ned saying, do not ask me, he is of my blood. Again, bringing that back into the ring, because we're going to talk about Jon more as he is the chapter directly after davos's fifth chapter in his throne of swords right like john is the

next chapter and the attack on castle black i think that's pretty significant especially with where these povs that we're currently encountering like melisandre dav Davos, and Stannis here, where they're heading. Melisandre says, a great gift requires a great sacrifice. Davos is like, I thought Edric was a useless bastard, so which one is it? What's the truth, Melisandre? What's the truth, girl?

Right, Davos shows up, wants to sip the tea, and she's like, listen, the power of king's blood is a big deal two false kings have died obviously because of baratheon blood and davos is like hmm but that's two out of three girl again what's the truth what's the truth melisandre and stannis is like yeah davos got you got him what's the truth melisandre even stand this is kind of laughing along here and she responds if joffrey dies in the midst of his power it would show the lord at work

if only that would happen right sidebar only that would i mean she got him here i do want to get back we didn't get a moment for melisandre to be like haha got him back got him assholes but she did got him joffrey did die amidst power showing the lord at work so good for you mel yeah just probably like i did it that's something we should get a pov for she's like you motherfuckers didn't believe me but here we are she kind of does it we'll talk about it next chapter. We'll get that later on, where she's like, oh yeah, John, Danny, whatever ends up happening,

yada yada yada, insert it here, I'm George R. R. Martin, type type type, word start. But this is where Melisandre would be like, haha, got him, I was right, now I die. Bitches, peace. Oh, for that, yeah. I thought you meant for this part specifically where Joffrey dies, and I was like, she does actually do that, because she's like, three is three. Oh, for that. Yeah, I thought you meant for this part specifically where Joffrey dies. And I was like, she does

actually do that because she's like, three is three in the next chapter. I know that because that was one of my lines. Three is three. Yeah, and we will get Melisandre later being a little gloatful. Not gloatful necessarily but a little defensive.

Like, bitches, I was right. I feel that. I know that feeling. I hope I know that feeling someday. Well, meanwhile, Selyse and Axel agree. They're like, the boy could be dead now, as we speak, which, hysterically, is pretty much happening. Chronologically speaking, it's pretty much soon. Stannis agrees with Davos, though.

He's like, kings can count just like smugglers can. Two is not three. Class consciousness be Stannis king. He dismisses Selyse, Axel, and Mel, keeping Davos, who immediately turns the conversation to Edric and how heartbroken his daughter, Shireen, would be if anything ever happened to this boy, Edric Storm. I'm telling you, it's like a it's

like a play this is the moment sleaze axel and melisandre exit stage left yeah it's a pretty like also i do appreciate stannis was done with their shit yeah he was just like i don't have the fucking hours i don't have the time it's over and immediately davos tells him once they're in good ears he's like adric asks after you every day he resembles robert and stan is like i know that the boy worships robert do you think i should speak to him should i tell him oh robert thought of you in this way do you think he'll like that davos but I tell him how Robert thought of him I don't think so pretty logical in my opinion Stannis being a logical king you drop this king there's this line here that Stannis says about Edric's name that I thought was really interesting he says it proclaims his bastardy his high birth and the turmoil he brings with him

and all of those lines all of those characteristics i think also really characterize john as well right there's a turmoil that comes with him existing i guess just by existing apparently and his name being john snow and a lot of it though is also inside of Jon the turmoil because as we all know from when we covered the Jon chapters Jon is like angsty moody teenage boy hours and that's what he's all about but also coming back to Edric Storm and his name I've never thought about it before but besides the part where Robert was very rude to his brother on his wedding day and did this really insulting thing Robert also named his son that looks a lot like him except for the ears like his bastard high-born son after the brother that he chose Ned he names him Edric Eddard right so for's yeah he doesn't even name his kid like i don't know

stanley stanford stan stan stanuel stanuel right or something like i think that must have graded on stannis but i also think that like naming his kid after stannis like having been conceived on like stannis's wedding bed that could have been taken and salted, too. Like, it can- it's a double-edged sword. But regardless, you know, that this kid is Edric. Eddard, right? It's salt in the wound. Especially knowing how Stannis feels about Ned.

Yeah. It also really brings to mind- not to bring the Danes up- Listen, sorry, not to bring the Danes up real quick, but I do want to say it reminds me of House Dane, right? With Edric Dane? Ah, yes, yes. Same kid, uh,

just different region. Hmm. Hmm. Interested to see how that evolves in the winter and if we get any good parallels to come back to here in Davos 5. That is. Stannis says that he'll hear no more of this bastard boy. He says Edric is one boy.

He doesn't say Edric. I say Edric. Stannis says the boy is one boy and his duty is to the realm, not to one boy. He asks Davos how many bastard boys and girls dwell in Westeros. How many men? How many women? And that the darkness will devour all of them regardless of status.

Again, a class consciousness king on our hands. Stannis king. According to Melisandre, though, the darkness will devour all of them. They're all going to die the same. Hot. The night that never ends. She talks of prophecies. hot king yet dare i disregard her he ground his teeth we do not choose our destinies yet we must we must do our duty no great or small we must do our duty

stamus tells dabos melisandre sees him with lightinger, but the sword does him no great service, especially not in the Blackwater. It was weak. A dragon would have done him real service, but not this fake flaming sword. Now that I think about it, the Blackwater was, maybe they discussed this on Noticast, I don't know, a battle of symbols, and

obviously the Lightbringer one loses versus Renly's armor. Anyway, there's something interesting going on here with Melisandre and Stannis, though, and their interpretations of prophecy in general, which, I mean, Mel has at least put this disclaimer. She's like, it's faulty, right? It's faulty. I think she should just tell people directly what she sees in the flames instead of trying to give an interpretation of what she thinks it is, but whatever.

That's how she is, and she has her her reasons as we see in her pov i also think it's really interesting in this language here that stannis says that melisandre has seen him allegedly him specifically standing against the forces of darkness with light bringer in hand but yet she doesn't ever say that she has visions of him as a king or on a throne right like in fact i'm not sure that any of her visions ever say that stannis himself or even like in the prophecies that azor ahai is destined to unite people much less like specifically westeros though melisandre just extrapolates that and says stannis this is what you got to do you have to unite the realm that's part of it for some reason and to stand against the great darkness it's a assumption. It makes sense as a logical assumption that one should unite the

realm in order to stand against the Great Darkness, but it's not necessarily part of the prophecy. Unlike there are prophecies where it is. The stallion who mounts the world, right? There's a facet to that prophecy of uniting like all the colossars of the world. That's a big uniting of being a big uniter, right? Azor Ahai doesn't. And I think it's really interesting that Stannis and to a lesser extent Melisandre take the signs that Melisandre has seen and just jump like this, I would say very kind of thin thread, it's a very fine thread and decide that, well, you know, if he's supposed to be Azor Ahai and have Lightbringer, then he must be the king of all of

Westeros and therefore must have the dragons and must kill Edric to do it, considering that the last hero legend doesn't have a uniting aspect. It's all about, like, well, this person's fucking alone and the darkness is coming. And especially considering that, like, I will say another prophecy, right? The prince that was promised. It might be the same as many of these prophesied figures. Melisandre uses it interchangeably with Azor Ahai sometimes. But when it comes to like ruling, I mean, it is called the prince that was promised and not the king. That's an interesting point. And you have that kind of vague idea of Rhaegar taking over as king right removing Ares

too and stepping in until the council could decide on what would happen to Westeros and maybe a whole new dawn of a day would occur right like they were all like yay Westeros could have a democracy someday and then like it turns out none of the lords actually wanted westeros to have a democracy because they didn't think they'd benefit as much it turns out and they all put all of their eggs in a different basket and those eggs were not agon eggs they were robert raffian eggs and like some men supported aries but like it turns out by the end of the battle shit was looking pretty bad for that side right and then robert won anyways sorry that was a history lesson a real vague one but like yeah it seems like the prophecy keeps serving as this really big roadblock to all these big kings some kings have other roadblocks right like uh in the hit tv show that these books

were based on game of thrones rob stark meets talisa a little bit earlier than this in the books and she ends up uh being his pussy blocker in the show that the books are based on for example but here here it's edric for Stannis in his mind we know it's something else but yeah absolutely and Davos then starts to stress the cost of

sacrificing the boy but Stannis says he knows the cost he's seen it himself in the flames and that the night before he saw a king wear a crown of fire, burning his crown, consuming his flesh and turning him into ash do you think this is important?

I mean, like, I don't know, it could mean anything you know, it could mean anything it could mean anything you get the following passage the king moved so his shadow fell on king's landing. If Joffrey should die, what is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom? Everything, said Davos softly.

Stannis looked back at him, jaw clenched. stannis looked back at him jaw clenched go the king said at last before you talk yourself back into a dungeon iconic line that ambiguous wording is just always just shuskis you know as joffrey of course is one of the many bastards that's alluded to in that sentence when it comes to discussing the life of one bastard boy against the kingdom and the moral question of like is it right to kill joffrey because that happens in this book everyone and he's essentially of an age with edrick storm 286 ac versus 287 ac respectively and then after him tommen another even more innocent bastard boy actually innocent bastard boy and there's a certain night's watch effect right uh this chapter like we said comes right before a john chapter and it helps to reinforce this framework of bastard boys against the many bastards in the

world leading the night's watch who we're about to see all these people right now stannis davos mel salise axel we're going to end up seeing them move to the wall or move to the north and there's a lot in this chapter coming back to that moon of the three kings and some of what you're saying that reminds me of these golden shrouded children right marcella tom and both likely to be crowned and killed for being quote unquote pretenders but as we see from their natures versus joffrey they're bright sweet children there's literally not much wrong with them besides their family is kind of crazy and that might affect him a little bit i mean i'm not saying cersei's parents might rub off but it might rub off and i don't know they could grow under the

right tutelage and care in the show we see marcella kind of grow a little quicker and without really any explanation but in the books we learned that marcella is very clever right like she's great at savas she has great logic skill. If you're playing The Sims 4, she could rule. Like the Dornish maybe intend her to do, at least momentarily. We'll see. We'll see. Giving Edric a chance at living his life is kind of the least Stannis could do.

He already killed off one of his kin, right? Renly. So who does Stannis plan to have take the big lands once he gets them? Right? Like when he finally gets the glory, when he has control over the nation. Who's his storm lord? He has no one. He's isolated.

He's alone at this point. Edric could actually strengthen his rule when used politically. He's a bastard. His dad's dead. There's no chance of him coveting the throne uh but stannis doesn't see that now right he sees the light or or the fires he sees the fires of relore and what they can grant him he doesn't see what edric could do without dying for him yeah davos bows but stannis has already seemed to forget him he walks the wind snapping banners along the way and the smell of salt in his nostrils and there's this really beautiful metaphor in the text here as davos is leaving sometimes the storm winds blow so strong a man has no choice but to furl his sails. Aye, your grace.

Davos bowed, but Stannis had seemingly forgotten him already. So I just kind of really love that metaphor of the storm winds blowing so strong and what Davos does in this moment. And I just like that idea, right, of the Baratheon brothers as these different storms. I'm sure people have talked about this before, and I'm sure I'm not the first one, but I think we can see how easily, right, I mean, it's pretty clear how Robert embodies this. He's the devil, the trident, thunderous laughter, right, imagery that we'll see with Lionel Baratheon, typical what you think of when you think Baratheon, right, laughing storm shit. typical what you think of when you think Baratheon, right? Laughing storm shit. I would argue that Renly was also a storm, perhaps in a way. The spring showers that would bring flowers, the Tyrells,

soon after, especially when you consider how Catelyn would think of him as still green these summer nights when it came to battle. And then here we see Stannis also as a storm, perhaps seemingly quiet, but with winds that blow strong. And I do think it's fascinating, right, that a storm is what is threatening to undo him in dance. There's a lot of irony with characters and their sigils, after all, in A Dance with Dragons, right? And those undoing them with Tyrion suddenly being at risk of being eaten by a lion to backtrack to what you said about renly does that mean he's like an anime intro he is i could see the rose petals flowing behind him and being all like oh card captures their entire retinue like

all of his party right yeah they're like that like garland Tyrell's got shoujo flowers, Marjorie's got shoujo flowers, Loras does, Renly does. I'm sure Edric, like, a little bit too, like, more innocent, like, maybe leaves, but Mace Tyrell doesn't. Olenna definitely does. She's got the rose thing definitely going on. She's got, like, the dark ones to show, like, she's been there, bitch. Yes.

Huh. I like that i do show joe the show joe anime opening for them for the baratheon bros i love it who needs venture bros when you have baratheon bros their opening wasn't like i'm trying to remember the card capture sakura opening like was it the i'm confusing it with the Indy Yasha one. I know I am. Card captains! Yeah. I used to have all the cloud cards. I don't know what happened to them. It must have been during a move I lost them. I should order them again.

I have Sakura cards somewhere in my mother's home. Oh, the cloud. Okay. Everything that's happening at court with Stannis right now is kind of a nightmare for Davos, and he immediately dissociates and thinks about sailing his boat home to Maria, to his little ones, to the pure ones left. A thought that's become more prominent lately. Every day, every night, he just thinks about grabbing Devon and going home.

I wish he would, but he thinks that he can't because he's a lord, he's the king's hand, and he mustn't fail. And he stares up at the walls of Dragonstone, the gargoyles of Dragonstone, but they are a thousand different creatures, sprouting from the battlements, surrounded, of course, by dragons. The Great Hall is a dragon on its belly, its doors an open mouth. The kitchen's curled up dragon in a a ball smoke and steam vented in its nostrils towers are hunched dragons are poised for flight dragons small dragons frame the gates claws emerge to grasp torches and walls stone wings enfold the smith and armory tails from arches bridges stairs i love this and

i want to say that my favorite disney song of ice and fire take is of course hellfire from notre dame the best stanis mel shireen davos edrick song that is that is an a-swap song now i'm sorry disney it's the best song but we've taken it it. It's the best song. It's a swap now. No, all lightheartedness aside from the hellfire, but the imagery of Dragonstone is this beautiful Gothic architecture, and it does remind me of the real Notre Dame, with vaulted ceilings, heavy stone ornamentation. Makes me think of these frivolous dragons all over everything.

And in Notre Dame, Hugo compares the architecture to the old way actually he says that Notre Dame's architecture is presented as chunky he calls it outdated it never changes right it's bulky stony weird dragons and it never changes against a city that has most certainly changed. Most certainly is changing. Kind of like how Dragonstone is a stand-in for the Targaryens as the old way there, right? And their legacy, the giant beasts that, no pun

intended, cement their legacy as well. Hired. I'm hired. I'm so hired. so hired stimulus is proud in notre dame this is presented as something that's destined to be replaced by science and progress right you get the old chunky style of the cathedral and it's it said it's going to be replaced i think that's symbolic in relora's transition to a replacement for the targaryens right this is relora's kind of become a replacement for

targaryens valyrians for dragons this is a bargain bin version that any man who is bold and powerful and daring enough could grasp and wield it right it used to be if you were so lucky to birth your dragon eggs you'd have power uncontrollable power in some attempts but power davos surveying the gargoyles and monsters and demons at dragon stone also reminds me a bit of quasimodo looking up at these gargoyles that were supposed to ward off unwanted demons, unwanted monsters, and Quasimodo feels protected by them. It reminds me a bit of Bran back at Winterfall, dreaming of gargoyles coming to get him.

Davos now here at Dragonstone is staring up at them and thinks, what if the dragons could come to life? What if they had been turned to stone? He thinks that he'd heard rumors the wizards of valeria did magic with fire stone of course they're valerian tricks like a potterwood clay but now it's kind of hitting differently for him now he's like what if it's real though it probably was but it's interesting what you're saying about relore as a stand-in you know this new power dynamic as opposed to the valyrians because i think what's enticing about relore

and prophecy in general right like the targaryens put in a huge amount of effort to build this narrative of power around themselves right i think that the that the Jaehaerys and Alysanne chapters in Fire and Blood really showcase the effort that was put in to try and cement this story that people bought into about the Targaryens that allowed them to be able to rule and live as they did. It's part of why Varys is putting in all of this effort, right, into building a story around his agon that he's going to present to everyone but for stannis and for people who believe and have decided to believe

in relor relor provides a convenient and already like pre-made template that you can just step into this story of power and be the chosen one all the prophecies kind of do that you know speaking of power and the architecture here first of all i can't get over the like the terminology of chunky it makes me think of like this chunky soup for some reason i'll explain that story later have you ever had chunky soup when it's cold? Wait, what? What about cold chunky soup? Imagine it not heated up. Goodbye. I don't want that.

It's too late because that's what I'm imagining. Imagine chewing chunky cold soup. That's how I feel about Stannis. Oh my god. I said what I said. Keep it in. I'll keep it in. I mean, some of it could work, like chunky gazpacho, but I don't know. Oh, I love gazpacho, but I don't love Stannis. like chunky gazpacho but i don't know oh i love

gazpacho but i don't love gazpacho yeah oh and borscht i like borscht love a borscht but anyway you know speaking of the great hall right and the architecture of dragon stone i never really thought about or realized that the great hall was in the shape of a dragon before and that they all just like eat inside of the dragon's belly is interesting i think that there's a multiple ways that the dragons function narratively in this story uh one is like on a more literal level people have discussed them as weapons right there have been people who have likened them to weapons of mass destruction adam feldman talks about them as symbolic of violence and the choice to do violence. I think there's a couple of other things that they stand for as well,

but here specifically, Stannis is thinking of the possibilities that a dragon could bring to their campaign. And it's in the same vein of how many view the dragons and what they promise in the story, though they never really vocalize or articulate it as such, that the dragons represent power. Having dragons, or power, opens doors for people that were not possible before, even when it's just as a symbol, again, that narrative, that story you build around yourself. For example, Daenerys is a widowed Khaleesi, right, in the first book, and is about to have her life taken from her. She's about to be forced to join the Dosh Khaleen, despite her own desires, until she births dragons. And then they're like, wait, that's amazing. Let's not take her to the Dosh

Khaleen. Let's follow her instead. And we see the effect that the prospect of power has on Stannis, you know, you were talking about, about like how he has that really pregnant pause as he thinks of dragons flying over Westeros, right? It's seducing him into that thinking. He's like, what if? What if though, when it comes to, when it comes to Edric Storm, he wouldn't have to give pardons anymore, right?

Or deal with this tedium of politics if he had dragons, right? And the architecture of Dragonstone shows what the consequences of that power are as they dine in the Great Hall. Power, like fire, consumes. And Santa sees where that road leads, as he tells Davos, but he's still going to go down that road anyway, like a moth to the flame. And I'd even add that the fact that dragons are overtaking the entire building in every single way. That feels significant, right? Like, everything they could have accomplished was overtaken by the power struggle for dragons.

Absolutely, and that's a big part of what the dance, right, in Fire and Blood is about. Yes. Salador's son arrives at his side while Davos is deep in thought. Salador has forgiven Davos for his treachery, it turns out, but he won't forget that Claw Isle could have given him and his wives and concubines really good retirement.

Now Salador doesn't get fine Celtigar wines or a sea eagle, and he doesn't get Celtigar's magical horn to summon krakens from the deep and stop the Ty the deep. Interesting. And stop the Tyroshi. Interesting. That is a exclamation point.

Think of all the olives he could buy with all of these. Oh, olives with the fine Kaltigar wines. All of that. But magic horn. He slips his arm into Davos's telling him, you know Davos, you're not very loved by the Queen's men. And Davos is like, it's so funny you say that because while I'm not loved by the queen's men who follow the lord of light the rest of

Dragonstone has gone back to the gods they've worshipped their whole life saying Stannis was ensorcelled he was bowing to demons of shadow he failed them in battle very Very dramatic stuff. And I love the next part because George takes this as a springing point to tell you the story he likes to tell. What's coming before it actually comes. Here, the viewer doesn't know Davos is going to spring Edric. In fact, everything in this chapter has said Stannis seems pretty cool. Like he's not going to kill Edric, right? Like he's like, that's still my blood. I can't do that. It builds up anticipation, right?

By the end of the chapter, you and I are like, is he going to do it? Is he not going to do it? We don't get the resolution until next chapter. It's what's called analepsis, which is a literary device, which in a narrative, a past event is narrated at a point later than its chronological place in a story and he reiterates and resolves this analepsis in Davos 6 it's an entire backwards walk right we start Davos 6 with here's what's happening and here's how it's happened so very interesting to watch how George formats these chapters but here we have Davos talking about the men who weren't believers in R'hllor right powerful men that followed Stannis very

carefully the same way that Davos once followed Stannis and now Davos is choosing them how he would have chosen his crew Sir Gerald Gower who fought on Blackwater, but after thought R'hllor was feeble because they lost to a dwarf and a dead man. Sir Andrew Eastermont, the king's cousin and past squire. The bastard of Nightsong, who had kept Stannis safe in the rearguard, who also worshipped the warrior. And Davos calls these men kingsmen, not queensmen. Stavros is a little better at politicking than he thinks it is, right? It's, it's, he thinks about it in those metaphors from when he was at sea and Davos as the smuggler, he talks about needing to know tides when it comes to men's attitudes,

that it was important for one's safety as a smuggler. And I think that's really interesting when you consider Davos's qualifications as a hand and politicking, because he's struggling right now with a separate faction again those queens men and he's trying to build his own allies and it really really reminds me of Ned's situation in King's Landing when he was wrestling with the queens men who were the Lannisters and those queens men also had their clutches in another Baratheon not this time to that Baratheon's fervent desire for approval, but rather his apathy because Robert was like,

I don't give a fuck. And Davos building Kingsmen, it's kind of like how the Brotherhood Without Banners maybe came together and how they talked about themselves. They said that they were Kingsmen even after the death of Robert. And we'll see them in this book with Arya's story, of course. That's really thoughtful. I didn't really think about that.

Davos is building Kingsmen. Right? Ex-Kingsmen, when you really think about it, because Robert's gone, Stannis will be gone by the time, well, Stannis is gone from this transaction, is really the important thing as we go through it. This is like a mini heist happening

in the shadows in the background Davos compliments Salador's leadership he says it inspired him to choose this crew who knows how to hold their tongue and Salador responds that a crew with no tongues is even better my friend these are the first references to Euron's plot that we kind of get in the story the first references to the Celtigar horn happen right the ones that summon krakens just happened a little bit ago and easily lost against this whole idea of the night's watch with the horn of winter right like some easily misconstrued thought, but here Salador says that a crew with no tongues is better. That's great

groundwork for Euron's entrance through a feast for crows. George was definitely foreshadowing here. Yes. Yes. Especially with Salador thinking, that's an interesting idea. But Salador's not evil. Yeah, this is it.

He's like... It's just not good, though just not good he's like chaotic neutral maybe but he's not like and yeah he's not the only one who thinks that works right he does think no tongues with no one able to read or write is better but i mean varies does it too solidor begins to speculate asking davos if the king will give the boy to the flames or if he's not and davos reaches for his lost finger bones instinctively. And Salador thinks, you know, one dragon could end this great war. But Davos does not think that Stannis will do it. He's like, Renly was a traitor, but Edric is just a little innocent boy. Salador slaps Davos' back, saying that they'll be seating well maybe davos will be

because solid war is like i'm going back to see peace out he congratulates davos on growing so very great and then he like gets somber because he cares about his friend davos right and he's like the higher a man climbs the farther he has to fall and i mean that's going to come back into play with a couple of characters in this book series, many of them Would you say that pride goeth before a fall? There's that, I was also thinking quite literally, but yes Davos knows he's risen too

high though, and he's really worried about it, especially as he's climbing up the steps of the Sea Dragon Tower, he's like, this is a high tower, and he can't read or write and he's like, the lords must hate me, he's like this is a high tower and he can't read or write and he's like the lords must hate me he had mentioned this to maester pylos who told him that a captain must navigate treacherous waters and this is the same davos is like i don't know about that and responds that if the kingdom were a ship it would be sinking and he's like but how do i blow lord Stannis to his throne? Are we not doing phrasing

anymore because how do I blow Lord Stannis to his throne? I'm just saying it feels justly. There's a lot of that in Davos' chapters. It feels purposeful because George apparently had a man

crush. I mean, that's how Ned and Robert's interactions feel sometimes. It makes sense. Asha Greyjoy, though, she would agree with Pylos' takes on a captain ruling his ship, because she says as much. She's like, captains are the kings of their own ships.

And regarding knowing how to navigate a storm, I would say that Davos himself thinks that the king is a storm right now. Anyway. It's true. And, well, in real time, Maester Kylos laughs at all this. He's like, see, Stannis knows what he has in you. His grace knows what he has in you.

And Davos is still a little glum. Kylos gives him yet another history lesson reminding him of Ryan Redwine's failure as hand although he was successful as a knight Otto Hightower Miles Smallwood all these failures but there were some really weird successes Davos you have a chance like Septon Barth a blacksmith's son plucked from a library. Davos is like, yeah, sure. But internally he thinks, sure, this history rocks. I just can't read any of it. Kylos offers to teach him to read.

And so now every day Davos has been climbing Sea Dragon Tower to frown over parchments and tomes, puzzle out words, and feel kind of like a fool. His son Devon is not yet 12 and yet was laughing him in reading, and Shireen and Edric also seem to read like they've done it their whole lives. He feels like a child, but he persists anyways because he thinks that a king's hand should read. He thinks of Maester Cressen as he walks the stairs. Apparently they had been a trial for Maester Cressen after he broke his hip later on in life. Maester Pylos, though, is young and clever and well-meaning. But Davos kind of thinks too young, right? Like that Stannis certainly isn't confiding in this young man, like he once had confided in Maester Cressen and his wisdom. As Davos nears the top of the stairs,

he hears a jingle of bells, knowing Patchface is waiting for Shireen at the top. Patchface's face is tattooed in red and green motley, and he wears a rack of deer antlers strapped to his bucket, bells hanging from the tines. Patchface had been exiled from Shireen's lessons because he was too noisy, by the way. Aw, Patchface says, Under the sea, the old fish eat the young fish, I know, I know.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. He mutters it at Davos' entrance, right? Like, Davos enters and that is his entrance music and davos responds that up here the young fish teach the old fish which is of course very clever because that is how he feels right entering these lessons where he has to read where these kids are laughing it's also way cuter than like what patch face said patch face is creepy bullshit i know not. Catchface, we have to work on your delivery. You know, the old fish eat young fish thing is very interesting in the perspective of Walder Frey with Captain Robb, right?

And Edmure. And Stannis trying to sacrifice Edric. And in lieu, Shireen maybe, definitely, eventually. And even of the upcoming Euron and Baelin young fish, old fish thing going on. It does remind me also of old Nan, weirdly enough. She mentioned this about the Long Night, a way big fat. All the swords of men could not stay their advance, and even maidens and suckling babes found no pity in them.

They hunted the maids through frozen forests and fed their dead servants in the flesh of human children old fish eating the young fish i think that's interesting and that like so under the sea people have discussed that when patchface says under the sea he means like after people have died right in the afterlife or death or something like that and the old fish eating the young fish. You bring up Walder Frey and Kat and Rob, but Katlin Stark, nay Tully, is an old fish and eats the life force in the way of a younger fish,

Beric Dondarrion, and then comes back to life from the dead. And he is a young fish. He's V young. I mean, he's 21 when Sansa and Jane are 21. That is young. Christ. To be 21. Elyria Dayne, 14 years old, is like my fiance.

And he's like, I'm dead. Oh. Yeah. But no one really knows. But maybe now she should just live like he's dead he is now Valyria Dane should do what she wants well

Davos is having a hard time doing what he wants right because he never felt quite as ancient as he did when trying to read Pylos he thinks is young enough to be his son he finds pleasure though in seeing his own blood, Devon, mingling with a princess and a king's bastard, and thinks of one day Devon's eventual lordship,

Lord of the Rainwood. Davos is more proud of Devon's eventual title than he is of his own. Devon reads, writes, he uses a sword and lance, and he was also very godly. Davos is probably like, sword and lance, awesome, god very godly davos is probably like sword and lance awesome godly he's like son's like preaching to him like my brothers have ascended to the hall of light sit beside the lord devon had said when his father told him how his four elder brothers had died i will pray for them

at the night fires and for you as well, Father, so that you might walk in the light of the Lord till the end of your days. Little narc. Fucking mini-ass narc. You know he is. He just has that narc voice. Well, I just kind of gave it to him, but he does. He kind of does.

Poor Devon. That's his voice now. And Devon greets Davos on the entrance to the classroom he is a good boy here davos sees much of his lost son dale in him the elder the same hair the same eyes the peach fuzz on the cheeks he's the oldest child of the three at the table but edrick storm towers over him by three inches definitely proving he's robert's son right build wise and he has cold black hair deep blue eyes the mouth the jaw the cheekbones only the ears are reminiscent of the florent in him and some even said edrick looked

more like robert and renly than stannis ever had. Damn, that's cold. It is cold. Of course Stannis, you know. You gotta feel bad for him. I guess. Someone has to. Well, Cressen and Davos did. You know who I feel bad for right now? I feel bad for

Devin. You know, he's going through that phase of puberty in regards to his facial hair. He's got that peach fuzz, that wispy stuff, and he's going through that phase of puberty in regards to, like, his facial hair, and he's, like, he's got that peach fuzz, that wispy stuff, and he's, like, real proud of it. And, um, you know, dear listeners, I don't know how old all of you are, right? If you are, like, around this age of, like, Devin and Edric, right? And, and you're, you're starting to get some peach fuzz, and you're, like, for sure, I'm definitely gonna grow it out, and it's, like, And you're starting to get some peach fuzz and you're like, for sure, I'm definitely going to grow it out. And it's like wispy and stuff.

You know, you don't have to listen to me, right? I'm just a random person on the internet. Take control of your own body. Be proud of your body. But at the same time, like, I know you. I know you think you look cool. But I just want to tell you that I'm warning you that you don't but again you know maybe you don't want to listen to me some lessons have to be learned the hard way by ourselves I have learned my share of my own bad appearance lessons throughout my own puberty

but I just wanted to give wisdom the old fish teaching the young fish and this is just me but do you think we have that many 11-12 years listening to our podcast, which is an explicit podcast? I don't know, but we do have children. Remember, one of our listeners said that their daughter hurt us. And then, like, their car got cut off and they said, how dare they? Now, I guess, great or or small we must all do our duty

aliana i'm trying to do my duty right now adric courteously greets davos as he arrives asking after his uncle the king and davos is like oh no he's well there's no reason to burden this boy so he just says he's well he's well adric had finished their lesson. Shireen announced they had read about King Daeron I, who went to war and conquered Dorne, the young dragon. Princess Shireen was a sad, sweet, gentle child, far from pretty. Stannis had given her his square jaw and Selyse her flooring ears, and the gods and their cruel wisdom had seen fit to compound her homeliness by afflicting her with greyscale in the cradle.

The disease had left one cheek and half her neck gray, cracked, and hard, though it had spared both her life and her sight. Devon says Darren worshipped false gods, but he was a great king otherwise, and brave in battle as well. I guess when you think about it, the same could be said of Stannis.

It's probably what they are saying about Stannis amongst the small folk, as Davos has pointed out. Yeah. Edric agrees, but tells him Robert was braver, and that Darren never won three battles in one day.

Wide-eyed, Shireen and Devon listen while Edric recants, Lord's Grandison, Catherine, and fell, falling at Summerhall to Robert, that Robert had slain. Lord fell in single combat, capturing his son, Silver Axe. Wait, sorry, was that Grandison, Catherine, and Fel, Eliana? Oh yes, your BFFs. Oh my god.

I never remember them. I remember them this time because I remember you chastising me for never remembering them, and that's how I remember them. Cycle continues. It does. Devon looks to Maester Pylos asking if that really happened

and Edric Storm says I said so didn't I he says that no one ever beat his father that's me as a kid man I was bossy Pylos tells him don't boast Edric King Robert suffered many defeats

just like any other man and Lord Tyrell bested him once at Ashford, and he lost many tourney hilt. Edric argues, and he's like, Robert killed Prince Rhaegar, and he won more than he lost. Kylos agrees, but says, I must divert my attention to Lord Davos. He's been waiting patiently. We'll read more of Darren's conquest tomorrow. The children say goodbye courteously, and Pylos offers Davos the book on the conquest of Dorne as well, saying that it has an elegant simplicity. It was rich with blood, battle, and bravery.

His son liked it. He may as well. Pylos is such a patient teacher. Oh my god. I will say in this chapter you know it's interesting that they're discussing darren the young dragon here considering that there are some similarities between him and his campaign adorned and and rob stark whose death of course opens this chapter and i kind of wonder if there are any lessons for Stannis in the histories of Daeron the Young Dragon as well. You mean bringing a false god to a nation?

A very isolated nation with different politics from the rest of Westeros? And only holding it for a little bit? And a very difficult military campaign. Yeah, a very difficult foundation environment. military campaign from it seems I don't know anything about it felt like the environment was doing them in the entire time they attacked in Dorne am I right in that they disappeared in the sands

the snows actually it's not at all I always want to make that take but when I really think about it deeply and touching sand and touching snow, I'm like, they're actually really different. But a large mass of them could do you in. They could. That is for sure.

Davos reminds Maester Pylos his son is not quite twelve, but he is the king's hand. He asks for another letter. There have been no new letters since last time he had his lessons but maester pylos brought him an older one a square of wrinkled parchment he opens it up and he says that reading is hard on his eyes sometimes he wondered if the citadel offered a champion's purse to the maester who wrote the smallest hand i thought that was very good. It's cute. Davos begins to sound out the letters, and finally he comes up with, To the five kings, the king beyond the wall comes south.

He leads a vast host of wildlings. Lord Mormont sent a raven from the haunted forest. He's under attack. Other birds have come sense with no words. We fear Mormont slain with all his strength. Suddenly Davos realizes what the fuck he's reading, seeing the whacks that had sealed these letters were black, and asks if King Stannis had seen this.

Pylos explains Alistair had read it, discussed it with the queen, and when asked if he wanted to reply, said, Don't be a fool pylos this is great juxtaposition because the next chapter we have john who's also a lower born man who's risen to power right in the night's watch working with a young man from old town satin right davos and pylos come back the next chapter is the attack on castle black as we'll mention soon, and Lulz Town is alight, Jon finds Ygritte dead, etc.

Here, back in Davos' chapter, Alistair had said his grace didn't have men to fight his own battles, let alone them, and Davos thinks you know, this is true enough, but the verbiage of the letter probably would have pissed Stannis off.

I mean, I don't think it would have. It's interesting. It's a pretty, like, inoctial letter, right? It's a pretty respectful letter. That's right. At least Sam remembered to let the birds out. He's like, oh, we gotta free the birds,

but forgot to tie anything to them. Freelum forgot to tie anything onto them, but at least people were like, this seems bad. Someone thought, this is bad. Anyway, coming back to Stannis' memory of visiting King's Landing and seeing Tywin, and Davos ponders on how to sway Stannis in the politics of the Queensmen and the Kingsmen throughout this chapter,

and we see that a hand can have such a huge influence right over how a king rules and what decisions are even like put in front of them affecting things right we see it in Axel's desire to become hand and why he wants to win through Alistair's refusal to bring this letter from the Night's Watch to Stannis and the impact that a hand can have. And Davos is, of course, as we know, pushing himself to read, knowing that he has to be informed to be an effective hand. And I love that Pylos provides him some great examples and lessons to him on what makes a good hand. He's like, it's not birth, it's not like lots of schooling unless it's like a good education. He's like, Septon Barth, like you, was lowborn and he was an amazing hand and again i'm like a pile of sand now i also loved crescent i don't know what's happening to me um considering that anecdotes in

the liberal arts about tywin shows his influence and power considering that this anecdote about tywin that shows his influence and power and that he was mistaken for the true king. I think we should be reading Davos' own story within that context of that mistake that Stannis made. And as he tries to wrap his mind around

what it means to rule how to be a king versus a captain. It's just interesting. Tywin's another hand. Davos is a hand. Amazing. Yeah. And what comes next in terms of how we look at Davos' POV is something that I find really interesting.

He first says, Only a starving man begs bread from a beggar. He says this to Pylos and then follows it up saying, This is something my wife once said to me. He drums his fingers on the table and starts to think about the first time he saw the wall himself. He was younger than Devon. He was serving aboard the Cobblecat under Roro Ehorus. There's a couple things here that I really like. I love that Maria is a part of Davos's psyche.

She continues to be brought up very subtly throughout this chapter a few small ways but she's a part of him in general we're about to talk about his nature but she's fundamentally why he is the way he is right like this obviously affected davos she's kind-. She at one point told Davos that men who beg are hungry. Like, they wouldn't be begging, they wouldn't push their pride to decide if they weren't hungry, Davos. She once

had this argument with her husband, is what I'm telling you, so we all really appreciate Maria, but what comes next is also interesting as far as Davos' timeline. He had sailed past skagos into the shivering sea bringing all sorts of steel to trade for furs ivory amber and obsidian but on the way back he was herded by three black galleys into east watch they lost their cargo and roro

jorah's lost his head for selling arms to the free folk i want to point out out that his name is Roro because he's on a fucking boat. I'm not joking. I'm pretty sure George did this on purpose. Davos smuggled and traded at Eastwatch back in the day on his own, and the Black Brothers were actually his enemies. They were hard enemies, but he calls them good customers if you have the right cargo. When Davos took their coin, he always remembered Roro's head rolling across the cobblecat's deck at Eastwatch. There's so much happening here about Davos.

He wasn't even 12 when he sailed with the Tairoshi captain, Roro Yuhorus, the blind bastard who was neither blind nor bastard-born. He wasn't even 12 when he sailed on the Cobblecat. Roro sells arms to the Freebo. He gets busted by the ice cops, right? They execute him. This is like 272-ish AC.

Davos spends the next decade getting his own ship, becoming a badass. Stan's shit happens in the Rebellion in the 80s. Somehow he has seven kids and is married. Dale is at least 16 to 18 hoping for kids on the way so maria pops out a bunch of kids in the 280s through 300 ac and we come back to that line he had sailed past skagos into the shivering sea bringing all sorts of steel the trade for furs ivory amber and obsidian the fact that davos was under someone's tutelage on a boat roro you horace to be specific learning and going with him into the shivering sea at age 12

understanding the the coldest secrets the north had to offer on the water and training for obsidian that feels significant and it does feel like something we're going to come back to we don't actually know if stan has sent davos with anything it doesn't seem that he was sent with anything but his seal and wyman we don't know if wyman has sent davos on with anything we just know that davos is a treacherous trip ahead of him so i do think that davos is going to be the pov we get a huge unearthing about obsidian through that he will go to Skagos and he will not come back with Rickon as we'll discuss during our Dance with Dragons analysis much further

but he will come back with Obsidian with its secrets. What struck me most interesting here though beyond that is we start the story of A Song of ice and fire out with another preteen boy who becomes disabled in his hero's journey seeing someone executed right there are a few elements coming to play with bran versus davos here this is a bit of a

different scenario but young davos watching someone of the Night's Watch execute someone outside the law, also Davos's kind of mentor at the time, instead of a lord and a deserter in the Bran-Edard situation, this is a dynamic that Davos is also seeing happening often in Stannis' camp as well, you know, constantly he's seeing people burned as deserters, etc. In response to this story where Davos is talking about, you know, this is what I learned on this boat. He responds not with this story, but playing into Westerosi norms instead. Davos responds, and we know that Davos was not raised within Westerosi norms, right? I mean, he was raised differently on Roro Yhor's ship, a Tyroshi who has instilled values in him that we learn most of his ship values and his crew values come from this man. He chooses to tell Maester Pylos he met Free Folk as a boy and says they were fair thieves, bad hagglers, and one stole their cabin girl. But overall, these Free Folk seemed like any other men you'd meet. So Davos doesn't tell Pylos about the story of

the men at Eastwatch who beheaded his Obi-Wan Kenobi. This interests me. This is a natural gut smuggler reaction for him, right? He's trying to assimilate among these lords and maesters and throughout this chapter he consistently is repositioning himself as this is what the king's hand should know this is how the king's hand should act this is what i should learn and this is what i need to be educated on yeah i think this is a really great laying out of davos's backstory um with ro ro your boat your horus and well chloe's like i can't even bother firing her i'm just quitting but you know you were saying you know one of his first lessons right as you said similar ages brand watching his mentor get executed not only is it the reverse of what Bran saw, right? In terms of an outlaw

getting beheaded. And he was breaking the law, right? So we kind of see that Davos is learning that sort of moral code, that he is living outside of the law, his profession is outside of the law, that there are consequences, which could provide some understanding of why Davos is like,

yeah, it's chill, I guess, that Stannis took my fingers. But besides the mirror to Bran, like that reversal, it also reminds me a little of Sansa then witnessing her father being beheaded in front of her. Like, was Roro a father figure to Davos? And, you know, Davos, as you said, right, he's trying to live up to what he thinks that a king's hand should be, what wisdom is. Yet we find throughout this chapter that Davos. And, you know, Davos, as you said, right, he's trying to live up to what he thinks that a king's hand should be, what wisdom is. Yet we find throughout this chapter that Davos is quite savvy in understanding other people's, other political figures' intentions towards him, and kind of slipping through those, right? It's a very smuggler way, you know, kind of like the way a smuggler would slip through things. And yet, despite all of this

imposter syndrome that Davos has, I think Davos's chapters are a huge study on imposter syndrome, which Lord knows I'm familiar with. But he's very worldly, right? He's had a different education. He's had a lot of actually life experience, right? As you said, he was raised by a Tairoshi. He wasn't raised within Westeros, but he's familiar. He does know Westerosi culture, but he knows a lot of it from the Free Cities as well. He's seen a lot of different ways that politics can be done and other governmental structures probably through that, as well as, you know, what the loopholes are, where the failings of the law are and i think that davos is probably has a lot more life experience than some of these other lords that he has to deal with who many have likely been sequestered and holed up in their in their castles or in their cushy

places in westeros as opposed to davos selling himself short for. Pylos agrees with him that men are men and attempts to return to their reading lesson. And Davos can't help but wonder why the Watch would look to Stannis, weak as ever, for help. And again, Pylos is a good dude, and I think that this discussion of, like, that the Free Folk, he's like, yeah, they're just, like,

people anywhere. Some suck, some are awesome. Makes me think that if Davos and Jon do meet, right, they would get along yeah absolutely we talked about robo euphorus and it does remind you of some of john's mentors right and definitely comes to mind there it's john's dad's davos had his own dad before stannis stannis wasn't everything yeah sorry boys and mean, Stannis is younger than him. Yeah. Davos asks Maester Pylos if Stannis had seen this letter, and Pylos asks if Davos thinks he should bring it to him himself. Davos says, no, you did your duty in bringing it to Stannis, and he starts to think about what Melisandre had recently told him.

One whose name may not be spoken is marshalling his power. Soon comes the cold, and the night that never ends. He thinks of the visions Stannis saw in the flames in a Vizora-high, tempering lightbringer. He can't help but wonder if Edric Storm must play Nissa Nissa, while Pylos is wondering after his health. He apologizes, saying he's lost in thought. What harm if some wildling king conquers the north? It was not as though Stannis held the north. His grace could scarcely be expected to defend people who refuse to acknowledge him as a king.

Give me another letter, he said abruptly. This one is too... Difficult, suggested Pylos. Soon comes the cold, whispered Melisandre, and the night that never ends. Troubling, said Daphos. Too troubling. A different letter, please. For now. What a chapter. It's like a brief chapter, but it's dense.

It's a really strong chapter. It's a really good, well-structured, well-written chapter. Yeah, and there's a lot that comes from this, right? Especially if you read the chapters before and after with Tyrion and Jon. It brought a lot of thoughts to my mind on davos's future i think we have a lot to talk about regarding skagos which i won't bring up now i'll wait until we get to the dance with dragons don't want to bore you now i'll wait till then but when we come back to the winds of winter we're not gonna have john for a while and i personally, if we won't have him until the middle of the book. I think it could even be that. You know, as a writer, as a fighter, you've got to explore those muscles.

Make sure those weak-ass muscles are able to pull it together, right? And you've got to remove your easy button. So if George takes it off for a little i wouldn't be surprised and it would be interesting to me if davos rounded out his plot and went to east watch after he left skagos i have ideas about what happens in skagos again we'll talk about it in advance of dragons davos but to see and maybe protect the Night Squatchmen there in East Squatch, we're not going to have Jon again for a while. And I don't know, two to three chapters, four chapters in Skagos,

we might see Davos moving, eventually with him ending up at the Wall and joining up with the Northern Plot. So I could see it happening. I don't think Davos would spend four chapters in Skagos. I think that's too much time. Yeah, it's two to three at most. Yeah, I would say one to two, just because, I mean,

Arya got her, like, blindness resolved very quickly. Yeah, but she's still in Braavos. That's true, but, I mean, George loves that. He's like, I wrote so many chapters of Arya in Braavos, I'm like, is he going to use all of them? But yeah, we'll talk about that eventually. This is all troubling, and we'll probably talk about this again next chapter, but I do want to discuss some of this now, right?

Davos's solution to the question of how to create a wind that blows Stannis in the right direction, if not the throne. He's like, we can get him closer to, like, good at least. And, you know, Stannis this whole time, right, he's seeking hard power to rule Westeros on a path that's paved with blood. It makes me think of this line from The Forsaken, maybe because of all the Euron, like, language here, but words are wind, but blood is power. And Pylos does say words are wind at some point. And as we'll see in the next chapter, Davos offers a

second route that is closer to, I will make them love me, for Stannis. It's, I think, a very difficult path for Stannis to take. He's not naturally inclined to it, but it's a similar idea. It's just almost there. It's the closest he's going to get. And I think seeing how Davos's mind works here, as he mulls over the question of, like, what is duty without saying it, which is something that Stannis is always repeating of what his duty is. And, you know, he's wondering what the cost is when it comes to Edric potentially being Nysa Nysa and then whether Stannis owes protection to a kingdom that doesn't recognize him as king.

And you can see like these gears turning in Davos's head right now and he's like this is too much this is this is a lot of feelings right now but then later on he's gonna be like I think I can hit one bird with two stones kind of reversing it maybe that works maybe it doesn't he takes a bet on Stannis's goodness but you know he's not super sure of it so he tries out as to put as many miles between stannis and edric as he can by not only helping edric escape but also being like but stannis what if he went north isn't this a good idea and trying to remove that temptation from stannis but in hindsight i think there's a situational irony here that speaks to George's question during the Shadow

Baby chapters of like, how far down the line does culpability go? Because George is, I think, interested in exploring these cycles of things, right? How far down the line is responsibility? Because what Davos does, we know what happens to Stannis, right? It's portended by the king with a crown of fire that's burning him up. Davos thinks that he is saving Stannis' soul by removing the temptation of burning Edric, by removing Edric from Stannis' life. But in sending Stannis north, what Davos is actually doing is hastening the wheels of prophecy. He's bringing Stannis closer to those forces of darkness, to the others, right?

As well as, of course, the darkness in his own heart as he enters these really desperate conditions of the northern storms his own version of darren's attempt at conquering dorn and it's there in the north in the winter with the others at their door that stannis does end up seeking his own nissa nissa in shireen would he have turned to that if he hadn't gone north i mean i'm i'm i hate to be shit posting at your beautiful essay but it does remind me of daniel to go north you must go south blah blah blah blah blah blah danis isn't gonna find what he's looking for he wasn't gonna find it in the south and he't going to find it in the south, and he wasn't going to find it in the north, and he's going to burn everything down in his path as he does.

Yeah. He'll find it. He's wedded to his duty, right? The way Quentyn was like, I gotta do this for my family, I gotta do this for my dad. And they could have chosen to leave. Write themselves out. He could have left. He was told to leave. He was begged to leave.

But what did Quentin do? He didn't. He let it consume him because that search for power was more important than actually grasping it and understanding what to do with it and how to wield it. Yeah. Like you said, words are wind, but blood is power.

It's not the only kind of power, but that's the route that Stannis is taking. It's the route many in the story take. It is. It is. Well. Happy New Year. Happy New Year.

Real heavy stuff. Some child murder. Avoided child murder. Oh wait, except for Rob. Rob just died. Oh god, Rip. That's Agon, Jingle Bell. That's right. There's your other patch face reference. That's right.

Jingle Bell, this episode. Well, I'm glad that you all made it along to listen to us in the new year. That you did not go to any fatefully weird weddings, right? Avoid those invites. Thanks for sticking it out with us. You know, if you want to stick it out with us this year

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Wow, we're almost done with storm