Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 113 - ASOS Davos VI

Episode Date: January 15, 2021

At the end of Davos's arc in ASOS, he plays a risky Hand: free Edric Storm. After, he shows he has another card up his sleeve from a raven from the Night's Watch.  LINKS MENTIONED A music recommendation from Chloe: "Lightbringer" by Covenant  --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello, and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, A Song of Ice and Fire, Episode 113, Davos 6 in a Storm of Swords. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. We're here at unlucky number 113. Oh my gosh. That is just superstition, Eliana. Hmm. Sounds like- Who do I sound like? Who do I sound like to? Who do you sound like? I don't know. It sounds a little like, uh, I think his name, he gets a letter D. I don't know. I meant more you because you're always making fun of me with the Scottish play, but Davos

works too with his finger bones. That one. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Well, no superstitions here. Truly. It's going to be a good episode. It's a, it's a here, truly. It's going to be a good episode.

It's a strong, fast chapter. It's not as long as I remembered it being. The chapter is kind of succinct. Me neither. Yeah, it's clear, it's succinct, it's concise, gets the point across. We say bye to Edric pretty quickly, and we bring it on in for some drama in the painted chamber. Yeah, actually, for some reason when I was going into this, I always remembered this chapter being way longer, and I think that's because it's one of the big chapters, right? It's one of the iconic chapters of A Storm Restores,

and maybe of the whole series. Yeah, Stannis has a lot of really great sad speeches, lots of staring out of the window. I'm into that. And Davos, his back sass is pretty strong the back sass is strong with Davos throughout these last couple chapters in Storm speaking of back sass

we did get, it's not quite an email and tweet and note, but our friend Jimmy whom Chloe likes to point out his own sassy nature, reminded me recently in one of the chats that we've actually forgotten and stopped asking people to send in their own versions of Girls Gone Canon episodes. And I want to remind people that

our inbox is still open for that. We still, in fact, want those episodes. If you feel moved to do your own version of Girls Gone Canon, we are ready to hear it. Yes, bring us your inspiration. If you're feeling compelled, girlsgonecanon, C-A-N-O-N at gmail.com. We would love to see them.

We have seen them from our friend Lo and their cat, Tutiki. And that was a very fun episode. And I know there's some other ones out there there must be and along with that in terms of other people making presentations we do have again a discord brunch this month we are still trying to nail down the date

but we will probably do it around the last week of January and if you're looking for information on how to join the discord patrons in the thunder tier and above that's our ten dollar patreon tier and above have access to this if you have a link that expired or haven't gotten a link yet feel free to send us a message over at patreon.com slash girls gone canon and we will get you settled with that along that same note uh our Discord brunch is a blast. It's a brunch slash happy hour.

This month's theme is going to be for our friend Cassidy, who's having a birthday. A bird day. It is going to be a burb day, if you will. It's bird themed. In fact, right now, our brunch is called I'm Like a Bird in honor of Cassidy. I thought that was a good name to name it. Yeah, Deli Furtado. Yeah, and I don't know. It's a fun time. We've been doing this thing. Some of you might have noticed during quarantine, there are little games where you can make your, or people do little Zoom parties and you can do a presentation on something. I think this was happening before COVID, but I feel like most things probably did, but I don't remember the times.

But yeah, there were parties where you could make your own little slides and do a presentation to your friends. Maybe you're drinking or snacking, maybe you're just hanging out, but you do a little presentation on something. So a lot of the patrons love to bring their presentations their slides and just teach us something or shit post on main as the children are calling it so come hang out with us it's it's a fun time it is i i kind of want to present something for i don't usually present something for these but i kind of want to for the bird themed. I know I'm not sure what, I thought about

it too but I might just see what rolls in first. We've already gotten our first submission for slides this month. Oh yeah that's true we did. Also in our fun things on Patreon, patrons $5 and up. This month we are going to do our Patreon episode

about A Song of Ice and Fire coming back to that month we are going to do our Patreon episode about A Song of Ice and Fire coming back to that and we are returning to our cruise, our semester at sea to the Free Cities yes we are on a tour on our tour as we are now the ladies of the

house, we're old enough, we're graduating, we're out there and we're touring to Kohor this time I'm very excited, we're going to tour to uh graduating we're out there and we're touring to cohort this time i'm very excited we're gonna tour the cohort talk about the cohort and uh see what trouble we can stir up there yeah maybe we'll run into a cohort oh my god maybe not maybe not it's like we're not we're breaking up the podcast i'm turning the car around right now. Oh my god. On that note, before Eliana throws herself

under the bus too fast there. Too fast, too curious. We are doing our last lightning round in A Storm of Swords for Davos. This is it. We're moving on after this eliana we're moving on to a dance with dragons uh there's a big skip we're gonna return with a dance with dragons davos and we're gonna chat about what we've missed in between get you all caught up on

that but today we're going to talk about what you might have missed between davos 5 in A Storm of Swords and Davos VI in A Storm of Swords. Yes. So, we start off with Jon VII. Jon and Donald Noy fortify Castle Black the best they can, but some of the losses are much more personal. Bran IV. Sam and Gilly bring them through to the Black Gate. Daenerys V.

Daenerys faces betrayal from men she considered loyal to her. Tyrion 7. Unable to please one of his wives, Tyrion realizes to save the woman he does think he loves, he must send her away. Sansa 4. Sansa is informed of her family's death and must hold herself together at Joff's wedding festivities. Tyrion VIII. Tyrion's wedding festivities continue until we know. Cough, cough. We'll come back to that.

This is the afterparty in this chapter. But there's another! There's another afterparty. It's the one that Sansa's going to in Sansa V when she's whisked away in the chaos to head toward the veil and that leaves us with jamie seven who returns a little late misses the wedding uh and faces his son's death cersei sorrow and of course his father's rejection

and the after party so really poor jamie having a rough time is this the after party. So really, poor Jamie, having a rough time. Is this the after party? The funeral? Lots of thoughts. I think so. It could be. It could be, arguably. But here's the other one. It's Davos 6. When we last left off with Davos 5,

Davos questioned his confidence level and Stannis' decision making regarding Edric Storm. In this chapter, Davos acts his confidence level and Stannis' decision-making regarding Edric Storm. In this chapter, Davos acts on these questions. Oh, he acts alright. That's for sure. Amidst the gargoyles in the evening sky, Melisandre's night fires burn high, leading the songs, calling R'hllor, while Queen queen celeste is leading responses king stanis stands beside her silently and sullenly shireen between them so i'm gonna start off jump in deep right

from the get-go there's some fascinating language with a lot of double entendres here or some other symbolism that's been used intentionally by George in Clash, and that's coming back to that imagery. One of them, of course, is the line that Melisandre sings, is fill our hearts with fire, and I'm just like, fill our hearts, H-A-R-T-S, with fire, maybe? The fiery hearts, slash heart. We've been talking about it a lot, you know, Shireen and Stannis as the fiery hearts, with, you know, there's that one literal burning that's to come, and also, of course, the crown of fire that Stannis is the fiery hearts. There's that one literal burning that's to come. And also, of course, the crown of fire that Stannis sees in the flames.

But we also have something else where the night fire is described as large and bright against the darkness. And the language itself says, Shifting orange light through shadows twenty feet tall across the yard. All along the walls of Dragonstone, the army of gargoyles and grotesques seem to stir and shift. So this idea of casting long, large shadows and it being a metaphor for power is obviously used

throughout the books. Everyone talks about it all the fucking time, and we always talk about that quote from Varys. And that quote from Varys is in fact associated with Tyrion. He's telling it to Tyrion. Jon also sees this with Tyrion in A Game of Thrones when he sees Tyrion in a doorway and the light casting a large shadow behind him and him seeming like a king. And it's again used to describe Tyrion in Macoro's vision of Tyrion in A Dance with Dragons. Along with that, I think that this idea is strengthened

in the following sentence as it highlights the imagery of the gargoyles and grotesques. idea is strengthened in the following sentence as it highlights the imagery of the gargoyles and grotesques on dragon stone tyrian has been described with the language of grotesque and he even actually uses it to describe himself sometimes and he's also been referred to as a gargoyle right from his first introduction to us in john 1 in a game of thrones so real early stuff so i think it's really interesting that tyrian's in the background slash subtext that's being emphasized here and he does come back later on in this chapter explicitly but i think a lot of this imagery is of course presented in a sinister light pun intended and it makes sense though the reader has never actually seen of course tyrian interact with davos or stannis. Obviously, he has with Stannis at court. They're like brothers-in-law in a way. Tyrion does take a very antagonistic role in Davos's own storyline, right? I mean,

it's Tyrion's wildfire in the bay that leads to the death of Davos's four sons. But at the same time, I think that, you know, if you're reading this through, you can also see Tyrion's clash chapters, especially where he's the Hand, as a sort of like precursor for what to expect for davos in this book because they are literally holding the same job tyrian tells us you know what sort of responsibilities and expectations of the job we should expect davos to do and in fact that even includes the protection of royal bastards in some way right davos whisks edric away for his safety and tyrian kind of does the same for myrcella and like kind of kind of murky for tommen even

tricking a royal this time the queen to do so yeah that's a great point and the way that tyrian actually handles the responsibilities and the way he kind of inwardly reflects and outwardly reflects that these responsibilities. It's funny because it reads a little closer to Stannis, right? With Stannis' why me in some ways, but also that it's like this almost perverse way of you see Davos, who is handicapped and he's not as high born and wasn't born in this beautiful high birth. But yet he's risen this high to this post and tyrian's treated like he was born in flea bottom right he was obviously not

born in flea bottom his birth was obviously very circumstantially well off he's lucky to be alive and obviously his mother's not and it's interesting to see how they kind of both deal with that, how Davos is almost gracious. And yes, Tyrion kicks it into business mode, but afterwards things don't go quite as well for him. Yeah, I mean, he does run into some bad luck. Davos does have quite- Very bad luck. Davos is actually, except for the part where he lost four sons, is quite lucky. It's a big thing. It's a big thing.

Really lucky, except for that except for that queen salise uh and the other worshipers sing and respond to melisandre we thank you for the sun that warms us we thank you for the stars that watch us we thank you for our hearths and for our torches that keep the savage dark at bay. There were fewer voices saying the responses than there had been the night before it seemed to Davos. Fewer faces flushed with orange light about the fire. But would there still be fewer on the morrow? Or more?

I love this. There's a lot being said in the blocking of this scene and in what's being said in prayer you know shireen is standing between salise and stannis which is a normal thing you'd expect a performance that the king and the queen are attending that the princess would be there as well but the fact that george is saying shireen standing between salise and Stannis. She's the thing that's between them, quite literally. Stannis' disposition at the Nightfire is so obvious. He's not involved. He doesn't care.

It reminds me of, in the very chapter right before this, it's a Jaime chapter, and he says, Every great lord has unruly bannermen who envy him his place. My father had the Rains, the Tarbacks, the Tyrells have the Florence, Hoster Tully had Walder Frey. Only strength keeps men in their place the moment they smell weakness. Then he goes off and he says, During the Age of Heroes, the Boltons used to flay the Starks and wear their skins as cloaks.

Safe to say none of these men at the night fire, especially as we're noting here that there will be fewer each day, none of these men at the fire envy Stannis' position. That's pretty obvious. They are using it as opportunity though. And here what a great performance of night fire is on display. Stannis takes no joy. there's nothing to envy of stannis another note too is that stannis is hoping to go toe-to-toe with the boltons that jamie mentioned those are the boltons that irk the starks and the starks are probably gonna irk stannis that's interesting because while there's nothing of stannis to envy there's much that Stannis envies of the Starks, especially Ned. There's this moment in all this when Davos is watching Stannis praying with them and thinks he is with them but not of them.

And I'm just, it's just top of mind right now. I'm like, well, if Stannis supports the policies and especially the actions of the sacrificed children by Fire Party. I think it doesn't matter if he's not of them, and I am going to gesture wildly at the events of the previous week. That's it. That's the thought. Nope, that is a good thought

to have. I think Davos is experiencing firsthand as he kind of betrays his king. This is outright betrayal. He gets very lucky in how this gets swinged, but like, it's

kind of a betrayal for Stannis. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. Stannis shouldn't be burning Edric. Jesus, settle down. But I'm just saying that like, yeah, Davos did pretty much go against his king, and it's the right decision but this should be proof that you can't really

fix the system from the inside yeah not if you're not willing to stand up against the sacrifice children by fire part if you have to sneak around and spring free the child that's about to die against your boss's orders and I mean, we'll talk about it in a bit, but at least he does bring himself to be accountable for it. I mean, he stands up for what he believes in. But like, I don't know, it doesn't sound like your company is going in the right direction. I know it's a startup, but my god.

it's a startup but my god investors i mean this is why like he can't feels he has no money to hire sellswords and all these things all the investors are pulling the money out until later on the iron bank's like all right all right stannis well we'll take a couple of shares you're the least worst yeah melison melisandre begins to thank the lord of light for giving them stannis and they pray to give him courage and wisdom and i'm like grant him wisdom indeed he needs it he'll bring honor to us all but he doesn't oh not at all well we get sir andrew eastermont again sir andrew eastermont comes to davis's side and touches him lightly and brings him back into the present from his own thoughts of prayer to the mother and says they best be off because it is some heist shit time. Davos is ready to cause some trouble.

Stir it all up. Yeah, Ocean's in parentheses faith of the seven. I was quite proud of this. It doesn't work as well when I say it aloud, but if you read it, it's a pretty good joke. Also reading these chapters again, it's really emphasized the

extent to which Davos keeps the Faith of the Seven within the R'hllor regime and the fact that he has to be quiet about it and how people are like, do you mean you don't believe R'hllor every two seconds to each other really i think plays up this idea of religious persecution in davos's storyline as he's hiding his faith and he's actually become even more faithful it seems right uh since the black water especially praying to the mother and you know he draws his strength from the faith of the seven and i think that really

speaks to this idea we've discussed in previous episodes of the faith of the seven actually having real power it's not magic but it's the power to turn things into reality through action and it has power in that it makes other people feel like they want to take action like maybe the riots or that we'll see from the sparrows later on and it makes me think of this line from the other series that we cover mild spoilers from it but there's these spiritual entities and they describe their effect on reality like from what we are spirit from what we do matter and matter and spirit are one yeah that's a great way to look at it especially in the face of him gathering these these random men that are as we'll cover them soon they're not

the men you think right like when you think of stannis's camp you think of the queen's men i think of farting you think of kate clayton socks and you think of i don't know thort think of all the other dudes axel all the garbage ones uh but these are the randos that are still left that still have a soul inside of them, a beating heart. And I love that he found them. It does feel something special. Like, that feels, it's a great enough coincidence to make you believe in something again. And there he goes again, right?

Reaching for his finger bones, believing in something, thinking, we just might pull this shit off, boys. And they do. And they all sail off and pull another heist maybe eventually. I hope so. You know, make it Ocean's 8. Really fun movie. You know, you got Castaway. You got Ocean's 11.

You've got us just going through the hits on this podcast. And soon enough, you'll be able to hear us talk about Pokemon the movie. Also the hits. The hits. All the hits. All pokemon the movie anyways the hits all the hits all the hits all the hits the prayers will go on for another hour or so and time's running out the longer davos stays there he thinks a smuggler must know the tides and when to seize them that was all he was at the end of the day davos the smuggler. His maimed hand rose to his throat for his luck and found nothing. He snatched it down and walked a bit

more quickly. So in terms of identity, you know, big theme for eighth graders in this story. Davos, is it really embracing, I think, one of his identities here in Clash? There was this big element of shame right that was being projected upon davos by stannis and some of the other nobles when they were telling him they're like oh you're a smuggler wink wink and they were defining the narrative of what it means to be a smuggler for him pushing him into thinking like this is evil and bad so what's one more like bad thing right and getting him to be part of the assassination of Courtney Penrose. And that act of smuggling, of course, leads to Edric being taken into Stannis' hands for, I don't know, maybe waking stone dragons, so they hoped. that being how he saves Edric's life this time, as opposed to how Edric was placed in danger.

And it makes me think again, like, of what the finger bones mean. They're brought up here, and Davos, like, he reaches to it for luck. As we know, he's very superstitious, but here he's making it his own luck, right? The finger bones were taken from him because he was a smuggler. And Davos, maybe he considers it kind of lucky because in his head, you know, he remembers that like Roro Yohoris, his mentor, was beheaded. So he's like, it's great that I only lost some fingers. And, you know, the finger bones around his neck, they're a remembrance of the punishment due to his past. And it's kind of a badge of shame, right? And it's this idea that Stannis as a lord was one who gave him honor by removing those and by meeting punishment to him. But Davos actually losing those finger bones in the Blackwater and bringing us to this point,

it's almost like that symbol of shame is finally gone. He loses it, and the shame that's attached to smuggling is also gone. There's nothing weighing him down it's not hanging around his neck because in this moment when davos is smuggling it's actually one of the bravest and most noble acts that he does yeah he's retaking his act of smuggling right because it was very much taken away from him uh he was half tricked into it even though he kind of knew what he was going to do. It's not fair. He finally gets with his group of companions.

They're joined together. The king's men. The bastard of Nightsong with his pox ravaged face and tattered chivalry. Same. Blonde and broad Sir Gerald Gower. And of course, Sir Andrew Eastermont. A head taller, spade shaped beard with shaggy eyebrows, all good men, and all of them dead, if this goes wrong. This is kind of reminiscent of Jaime's Kingsguard discovery in the last chapter, I feel like, because he comes back to King's Landing

and realizes, oh shit, all of the men here that are left to guard the king are trash it reminds me of that differentiation between queen's men and king's men in stannis's camp that the queen's men that are formally guarding stannis are trash but these men that are considered kind of ragged right they're the king's men and they're in a way king's guard by guarding stann' soul. Davos thinks about what Melisandre told him about the fire and how seeing things in it works. And he warned his men that she may see what they intend. And Louis, the fish wife commented, we should kill her first. And I thought that the way that Mel described the way reading flames works was interesting. She, on one hand, it reminds me, I don't know if you remember it, those like books, you know, you read them as a child.

They were just like all these like crazy patterns and you put like your face in them and you pull them away. And there's like these hidden pictures in them. Did you do that? I know what those are. Yeah, I remember those. Yeah, I remember books. I could see it. Kind Yeah, I remember those. Yeah, I remember books. I can see it, yeah. Kind of reminds me of that, but there's another way she describes it and the difficulty of reading Flame.

And she says, like a book whose letters dance and shift even as you try to read them. And I found this really interesting because it's actually quite similar to how many, not everyone, but some people describe what happens to them when they're reading with dyslexia. And last chapter focused a lot around Davos's literacy, how he's learning to read, and it'll of course come back here because of the whole like letter thing, but I find this interesting because, you know, Davos's POV chapters and the, you know, how he talks about learning to read, it doesn't actually seem to reflect experiences of dyslexia. And of course, like what I'm going to say next comes with this huge caveat that I might have been told incorrect information or like research has changed since I was told this. So if I'm wrong,

apologies, please let me know. But Davos is, of course, learning to read as an adult, right? And learning to read later in life, only getting access to literacy after childhood, which is a critical development period for your brain. And along with Davos potentially having had some malnutrition as a child, right, he's from Flea Bottom, might not have always had a stable source for food, can in fact impact literacy acquisition as an adult and might lead to some learning disabilities which would include dyslexia so i just found that really interesting language that is really interesting it's an interesting way to read that i mean i really do appreciate and maybe this is just because of like hand disability but you know you have catalan davos and jamie and john that immediately come to mind with hand disabilities, for example. But you don't have a lot of that first-person POV on learning disabilities, necessarily.

And it's a hard thing to portray, right? Like, how would you portray that well if you didn't have one? And just developmentally speaking, like, it's interesting to watch Davos struggle with this. just developmentally speaking, it's interesting to watch Davos struggle with this and also that probably the bravest thing and what this would go in the annals of the bravest hand. He's the Barth here, that he is the one that literally said,

hey, wait, you're sure you dealt with this? Do you realize what this says? It's a pretty big deal. Yeah, there's something there showing that wisdom and knowledge aren't the same. Or in D&D terms, wisdom and intelligence are not the same. Yeah.

And the classist kind of background that can come with the idea that intelligence is just freely available to everybody and that Davos pulls himself up by his bootstraps to get it, but like he wouldn't have been able to had he not somehow luckily, quote unquote

fallen into all of this bullshit. But that's like absolutely true, right? Like even if he hadn't, it's that and that what if Maester Pylos wasn't willing to teach him, right? There are Maesters who absolutely are invested in reinforcing these structures, so

like I can't see Pycelle being like yeah davos i'm gonna teach you no no not at all not at all you know another maester that comes up here is davos because he reminds him of crescent's end in trying to kill melisandre the first thing that comes up is why don't we kill her davos is like you know what happened to maester crescent she's quick to sense threats to her own person ignoring her might be the only way to keep her out of the view of it it's so smart and interesting and it actually works because melisandre tells us in her chapter she's like the first thing she ever learned to see in the flames were threats to her so i mean this was a fascinating theory and it

paid off for them yeah we're gonna touch on it a little when davos gets the realization as well but it's an interesting reveal and i think that it has to come back into play i mean melisandre is mysterious but george is giving us a few things of her so i wonder if this will affect a later plot maybe in the end of the winds of winter or in a dream of spring or something that's interesting i mean you know brahlor only gives her snow that's true i mean maybe you know we we all wonder what happened in melisandre's past if she's a fire white as some people have described it and like what would someone attack her and then she'll be like i didn't see that and instead of let me find that oh it's like warm womb i thought you were gonna say hot hands i was like i guess the little thing that you put in your pocket oh oh that's arianne

martel yeah i mean it's probably also it's actually also Melisandre. It's both. I don't know. They might be cold. They, they are sometimes. I know that George loves to describe like, I'm so off topic. We're talking about titties. Yeah, Perky, he likes to describe like hard, hard nipples. And I'm like, so they're all cold. Everyone's cold right now. No, they're aroused nipples, Aliana.

What don't you understand about your nipples? Never mind. Anyways. I have said too much. So let's talk about Tristan of Tally Hill. Tristan of Tally Hill, who is a part of this group was a sunglass man originally now he only wears uh lenses no i'm just kidding he's from house sunglass he's a man sunglass he's from hot sunglass do you think house sunglass just sends out those horrible ray-ban ads all the time and

tags you in them oh yes i do tristan of tally hill was a man sworn to house sunglass and he's like there's no honor in hiding and sneaking davos but davos says it doesn't really seem honorable for us to die like your lord did and he tells him that he doesn't need men of honor he needs smugglers and asks if they're with him or no. They are. When you think about Tristan of Talley Halls, when you think about Tristan of Talley Hills, whole entire thing, he's stuck with Stannis. He has nowhere to go. House Sunglass, who, may I remind you, their sigil is literally the seven mullets, the golden stars on a field of white. Their lord was sacrificed in Davos IV, Storm of Swords.

The current lord Sunglass, the brother to the dead one, sails across the ocean to Volantis, similar to the act we'll see happen with Edric to Lys, to avoid Melisandre and Stannis after Stannis loses on the Blackwater. So Tally Hill, their lords are burned in flood. Their ships are destroyed. The ships of House Sunglass and Sweetport Sound is basically lost to that family. Tristan of Tallyhill needs a new lord, man, because he has nothing right now. Yeah.

And, I mean, he's not doing himself any favors by being part of this plot, so I wonder if Tristan's also, you know, like, how Sunglass was devoutly Faith of the Seven, and I never realized the sunglasses thing now, and I'm, like, wondering, is that supposed to be, like, they're not blinded by the light

of R'hllor? Could be reading too much into it? Maybe. But is Tristan, like, devout? I by the light of r'hllor could be reading too much into it maybe but it's tristan like devout i mean it could it might actually literally might be i mean well that's the thing right like this is the this is the family that you had the guard wearing the leftover uh white outfit that was left from lord sunglass before he got burnt right when he was wearing like the dusty overcoat the surcoat and it had the sigil on it that we noticed a couple chapters ago in the dungeons and i think for tristan like i bet they were pretty devout i bet that is what house sunglasses for that's actually hysterical to stop you from seeing the light to to lessen the light that has to be it eliana i i didn't think about it till you were

talking about sunglasses and the hut i was like i think this is intentional so i mean that might be why tristan you know he might not have a lord right now to follow but he's following not the lord of light at least he's chosen to stick with his gods and that's why he's part of this plan i mean he has nothing to lose that's for sure it's true he could just run across the sea i mean his lord's there right yeah maester pylos is leading edrick through his psalms when davos and sir andrew arrive to usher him out and andrew chats adorably with edrick about his own experience in psalms turns out edrick prefers history because he likes the tales and pylos tells him to go get his

cloak and go with Davos. And just to remind everyone here, Andrew is a, if I'm remembering, if I understand how cousins and families work properly, first cousin once removed from Edric. And he is in fact the first cousin of Stannis through kasana his mother you say that but i do want to say that originally in one of the indexes i want to say it was clash he was an uncle and then it changed to cousin to stannis he was stannis's uncle first in clash and then he became Stannis' cousin, I want to say, in the Dance Index. Time-traveling fetus. Yep, time-traveling fetus. Speaking of time-traveling,

as we said, Edric likes the history most because it's full of tales, and I'm just saying that that's George R. R. Martin writing himself for a split second into there. He has his history minor and he loves, he said that he likes the more dramatic, like, dramatized versions of history better. That's how

we got this story! Oh, you mean George Mind is like a whetstone? R.R. Martin? Inserting himself into his books? I don't know. You mean Sam Tarly? I'm sorry. Tyrion Lannister?

His favorite characters oh books i'm busy reading books and groping titties that is not his self-insert but in a way maybe i don't know he met paris naked in a sauna okay adric asks where they're going and he's like i refuse to go pray to the Lord of Light. I'm a warrious man like my father with his hands on his hips, you know, like a very plucky young kid. And Davos is like, we know. They're all like all of them echo. They're like, we know, Edric.

We know you're like your dad. And they move along. Pylos fastens a cloak on Edric, pulling his hood up to hide him. And this made me sad. It felt like a cloak of protection right because pylos has spent so much time with this boy he's probably been this boy's you know constant teacher companion his brand new dad that pays attention to him for the past year and he's like he's now like got a maybe relationship like crescent had the stannis yes absolutely it does feel like that right like he's now got a relationship like Cressen had with Stannis. Yes, absolutely.

It does feel like that, right? He's getting to know this young boy and it's hard for... I mean, that's the thing is Pylos obviously cares for Edric because he's helping spirit him away. When the last maester did not really... While trying to help Stannis survive. That's true. You know, he's got precedent to be like, but what if I didn't?

He's got precedent. Oh, amazing. Hired. Promoted. This moment does remind me of another character that we've covered who covers themselves in a hood as they escape via sea. Sansa.

This actually reminds me of, instead of Edric and Pylos, Sansa and Dantos. Even with the name there, right? Even with the name, the etymology, just the os at the end. And the D. Yes, the D.

And there are good parallels here, right? Especially this comes up after the purple wedding. It's an echo of what just happened. Dantos says to her, outside the godswood we must make no sound pull up your hood and hide your face sansa's being whisked across the sea to hide her claim and her blood by pretending to be a bastard while edrick who is a bastard is hiding his blood and claim out in the sea as well, but he's being spirited away by people who want to protect him, and Sansa will eventually learn that she's not being spirited away by people with her best interests in mind. Davos and Peter kind of serve as contrasts in this chapter, right? Because Davos sees Edric's potential in being his own man,

and Peter can't get past seeing Sansa as her mother or as you know how he can covet Sansa's potential for himself Stannis and Peter actually have a few parallels here opposite reasons of coveting magical king's bloodline right blood king magical king's blood bloodlines from these kids for wrong reasons stannis doesn't want to speak of edrick as his nephew he refuses to and he wants to consume edrick's life essence for power and revenge and littlefinger reluctantly calls sansa his daughter while he really also wants to consume her life essence in a totally gross way for power and boners and revenge yes both of them are using these children to kind of fulfill their fantasies but um i love this i love this comparison you draw

between how edrick spirited away and sans is right it's both by sea and boats and it's in the same book so within literally chapters of one another, like two just very few chapters between each of them, so that's a fantastic connection. You can't see it, but Chloe's preening. She's

patting her eyelashes like, yes, thank you, please clap. We're preening. Adric asks if Pylos will come with them, but Pylos's duty lies on Dragonstone. He asks Edric if he remembers what he taught him about the king's hand, and Edric repeats, the hand speaks with the king's voice, and Pylos smiles, sending him off. Davos reflects that, originally, he didn't know if he could trust Pylos smiles sending him off davos reflects that originally he didn't know if he could trust pylos maybe because pylos had taken crescent's place but now davos admires pylos's

courage he could lose his life for this yeah and pylos wasn't letting on these plans but he like senses what's going on and i you know we stand maester pylos and by we I mean me I don't know how Chloe feels I am not her yeah I'm just like you know I'm not your hand right I don't speak with your voice I don't speak with the queen's voice and damn straight

they make their descent to the water to one of Solidor's ships and Edric asks if Shireen is coming too and and when he learns she isn't, he's like, no, I have to go back and say goodbye, because otherwise Shireen is going to be sad, and it's so sweet. So cute. I'm like, no wonder people like

Edric. He's a little annoying sometimes, but I'm like, no wonder, look at him, that's so nice, he wants to say bye to his cousin. And Davos thinks, you know, it's not so sad as if she sees you burn. So you should get going. And tells him there's no time,

but he can write to her. Shireen's not coming with them. And you know what? The emphasis on Edric asking if Shireen is coming with them on the boat to sail away from Stannis to prevent him from being burned because of his king's blood

it really hits different when you know what's gonna happen I'm like fuck dude they should have put Shireen on that boat with him like even even Alistair plotting to marry Shireen off to Tommen right like that could have changed her life that would have been better

like yeah it's sad because in that aspect shireen is very much a princess in the tower right guarded by the dragon that's gonna eat her absolutely it's uh it's a bummer i i didn't really think about it in that way but yeah it's pretty sad but that's really how you see at the end like that's an unforgivable offense if he had taken shireen davos would have been a dead man yeah absolutely but like he i mean for obvious reasons he's like well i guess stanis is willing to hurt this child of his blood but not that i mean like right no one thinks that yeah this person's totally gonna kill their own kid and i mean yeah ed. Edric wanted to bring Shreen with him, and it would have been better for them. Anyway, Edric questions why he's leaving at all, and he's like,

have I displeased my uncle? And he's like, I never meant to. He demands to see his uncle, he gets stubborn, and the men begin to exchange looks like, shit, what are we going to do? What are we going to tell the kid? What wimps, man. They're sitting here like, oh, we gonna do what are we gonna tell the kid what wimps man they're like sitting here like oh we can't speak back to edrick are we gonna lie to the child yeah oh we've lied this far but now we can't lie more and also like where is he gonna send his letters

to if he writes shireen anyways one two three dragon stone lane zip code ashes on the ground um invisible ink use a lighter to see it no just kidding sir andrew says that there's no time for edrick to go and talk to his uncle and davos finally butts in

and he uses his own strong voice to him and says he does not want to see you i am his his hand. I speak with his voice. Must I go to the king and tell him that you would not do as you were told? Do you know how angry that will make him? Have you ever seen your uncle angry? He pulled off his glove and showed the boy the four fingers Stannis shortened. I have. all lies there had been no anger in stannis baratheon when he cut the ends off his onion knight's fingers only an iron sense of justice but edric storm had not been born then and could not know that interestingly we do actually see stannis

angry this chapter now that i think about it so that's an interesting one but what's going on here when when davos is telling edrick about stannis's anger right it's kind of reminds me of aria being mean to nymeria for her own safety you know when when she was being hunted or even ned you know fainting and putting on his lord's voice in front of others to protect john and coming back to Tyrion again, as a hand and setting our expectations for Davos's chapters also as a hand, Tyrion's chapter shows us the responsibility

as well as, of course, the power that a hand has, the politics surrounding it, including lying and scheming and threatening. And Davos here is also now doing some lying and scheming and threatening, but it's for a good reason. He's saving this boy's life. Though I guess you could argue that Tyrion, in trying to restrain Joffrey's worst impulses,

was also trying to save Joffrey's life. Different way, though. And Davos is also trying to prevent Stannis' worst impulses. And of course, another hand Ned had to do this for Robert, who was like, you know what? Let's kill some kids uh yeah it uh it does feel that way definitely for clash for tyrian that's a battle and a half in a clash of kings for tyrian and davos is absolutely running back and forth trying to prevent things happening he is uh playing firefighter so to speak yeah and now that i think about it danny

and edrick edrick's about the age that danny was when robert was like what if we killed her though oh that's true yeah it's like a thing amongst baratheons i hope no one sends knives after him and leaves oh especially since he has a claim possibly to the throne and Aegon's trying to take the throne. I didn't even think about that. I don't know. I didn't really either. I just assumed that he was going to end up pulled because I believe

the Eastermonts were supporters of Blackfire's Pot. No, maybe I'm making that up. But I just I feel like what if he's like the storm lord that Aegon wants, you know? He's in Lys country. Come on now. It's dragon But I just, I feel like, what if he's like the storm lord that Aegon wants, you know? Yeah. He's in Lys country, come on now. It's dragon, dragon land.

I believe there are theories, I want to say Jeff came up with this, but I don't know, or is one of them who subscribes to this that varies, you know, being from Lys has Edric, right? And I think we've discussed this during our Lys episodes on Patreon, so. I think we discussed it also a while back because of Tyrek as well. Get Tyrek to Lannister. He has Tyrek possibly as well as far as having his own Lannister.

Which is funny because that means he didn't really trust Tyrion as his Lannister. I mean, understandably. Varys wants to have control over things. He's a project manager he wants to succeed is really what's happening he really does and he's doing okay for now

so Edric yields enough finally they talk him down and the bastard of Nightsong, Rollin Storm joins them at the cellar they move quickly to the gates with Louis the fish wife and Omer Blackberry waiting for them. Guards are on the ground at their feet.

They've been subdued. And they point to the boat, which is named Mad Prendos, for the pirate who once captained it apparently was not so sane. And Davos laughs because he's like, Ah, Salador, he has a streak of black humor in him. He has pirate's black humor in him. Hysterical. Very funny. Salador is hysterical. He has a streak of black humor in him. He has pirates black humor in him. Hysterical. Very funny. Salador is hysterical.

It is kind of funny. And, you know, George doesn't always refute to black humor or gallows humor often. In A Song of Ice and Fire, that morbid dark comedy, we get it from a few characters, right? Like Bronn is spoken of as having black humor by Cersei,

and we see it in text for sure oswell went uh jamie actually says that he had had black humor and oddly enough barriston calls the camps that have flux that they're giving off black humors so very different black humor there's the four humors like the greeks thought there were only four different things. They're like blood, yellow bile, black bile, and phlegm. So yes, he discusses the black humors, humorism, the humoral theory. But you know, something else here, bringing up that context of madness, Targaryen madness, you know, that's the word. That's a silly term, in my opinion.

But the books actually define so these are the characters that are called mad that are targaryens and rulers in the books right maegor one lots of reasons there right didn't really treat his wife and family appropriately okay little murderous hey he had headaches though so we're gonna excuse it shut down the faith uprising pretty brutally right not a great moment in his history and then you know death by throne death by throne so as far as reigns go all right i see i see the the subjective use of the word mad george okay baylor one's madness seemed to be born of his pious nature, which is like the exact opposite of Maegor's issue. Baelor refused to touch his sisters to create more perfect incest babies,

and he's known for the most pious and peaceful reign, right, by everybody in the world. Everyone commended his holiness and virtue if they were religious, although behind doors we know there was a little something crazy happening and he's also cited as a driving force of the dornish alliance but i don't know i think there was some other help there we'll talk about that another day but he dies on day 41 of his fast uh and some wonder if his uncle viscerys poisoned him but i imagine he probably looked like a skeleton, much like we hear Stannis described as looking like, right? These days and moving

forward. We have Arian Brightflame, Maekar's son, right? Cruel, arrogant, threatened cats and kids alike, and ended up in Lys in exile for a bit. Served the second sons before coming out of exile. He had a son named Maegor, good name,

and he dies the same year that Maegor is born. He drinks wildfire, hoping that it would transform him into a dragon. His son has passed over on secession because they're afraid that he might have the madness. Aerys II, Viserys, we know kind of how those ones go. Aerys, Viserys,ys aryan and maegor these deaths are quite obviously driven by power pride and paranoia right even even balor could add into that in a way stannis has done enough stupid things that like when you look at his reign if you just take his reign, paint a picture of it, and put it in a frame and look at it for a minute,

it just fits. Starved himself out for a brother that obviously he couldn't live up to. Just kidding, haha. Held out during the siege in his brother's war to take the throne because the Prince Stannis of Dragonstone, that's what he became after that. So Stannis is a Prince of Dragonstone, technically. Seduced to a fiery religion,

raised his armies to take back the throne from his brother's children, and then upon loss, flees north, tries to conquer the land, lets wildlings through the walls to join his armies, descends on the north with an army of southerners and wildlings to take their vacuous dead land then those that are left over he tries to convert them to relore and installs himself in much of

his camp at the local night's watch penal colony to deplete their stores top all that off and how his ending will you know probably go up in flames as we know um you know the whole killing your daughter off and ritual sacrifice as you die against the long night i think people might look back and go huh maybe stannis had a little bit of targaryen madness himself you know like why did arion drink the wildfire if not to try to birth dragons from his flesh did balor hear whispers of dragons hear whispers of azor ahai being born from his line is that why he refused to consummate just think of last chapter dragon wings over westeros there would be such a the lust in his voice it's an interesting thought he's not so

different from these men not at all and it's something we've seen a lot of other characters in the story as well there's a part of me that i think this is something we're going to discuss much more in depth in in later chapter reads uh in various ones of them but i'm personally i and i think that you and I have discussed this before amongst ourselves, but I don't believe that Targaryen madness is a thing that's inherent to their family so much as it's a madness. And we're seeing it here with Stannis and it's tied more to what happens when you're put in a position of unchecked power and entitlement.

And we see, you know, know what what that does to people i mean it has less to do with like you know you're born with it so much as how circumstances lead to you using that power and things like that because again we see it in a lot of characters throughout the story who aren't hargarians some of them. Some of them arguably like doing that. And I think there's also another question. Different idea of madness, right? That the story brings up of madness, of course, being the same coin as greatness and how it manifests in Daenerys' story.

And I think part of it also has to do with like legends, right? How do people craft the narrative around you and position it as madness or not but again a different conversation but one of the first questions where this comes up is in Daenerys 10 a game of thrones before she even like really knows much about the history of her family as she's about to birth the dragons she asks is it so far from madness to wisdom many of john's best acts

in in this book and the next book where he's trying to secure the safety of the free folk the men of the night's watch call him mad he himself wonders like and calls what he's doing madness these are like objectively good things that he's doing. And some of the acts that Rhaegar did, right, when you scrutinize it, and its intent, and its impact, some people might wonder whether it is madness or greatness. It's, we don't have like the rest of the story yet to really, I think, have the full discussion on it. But I think people are having that discussion. And so I think that the name of the boat, Mad P mad prendos speaks to that question how far is the difference between the two yeah and i i thought it was an interesting really quick blip

we never hear about this ship again we never come back to the name we never hear about the pirate again at all we just this is it fleeting but it just feels like i mean especially the rulers that i mentioned and then comparing it to stannis that each one of these people had someone whispering at their ear whispering about their power and greatness uh maker had many you know and arian was brought up to think that sunshine and wildfire came out of his fucking asshole uh regal targaryen one i didn't really touch on that much but i mean he was said to be mad but he actually was different than what these kings sounded like right he was seen sometimes dancing naked in the red key from afar and uh good for him and yeah i agree i'm like good for him ill he actually it's very joffrey he gets ill and he

chokes on a lamprey pie and dies um yeah so i don't know it's interesting that the ones that definitely come up as the more violent and harsh kings in history are the ones with a bloodier past in targaryen history also generally have the thematic source going on of like problems with local religion, problems with dark witches whispering in their ears, problems with prophecy. Problems with intensely violent misogyny too, when you think about it. I think that there's a tie there too in how that manifests in the violence. And again, comes back to power structures and entitlement yes i mean like baylor they call it like religious fervor and

madness but how it manifests is denying the rights of his sisters is one of the most extreme ways it does so absolutely i mean imagine if he had just consummated and had damon with diana imagine that would have saved his whole brain but instead the boy died believed himself special like stanis is being told he is everybody's special eliana oh my god god, different show. Different show. Davos kneels to Edric and tells him, I must leave you, Edric. You are Robert's son, but you must be brave no matter what happens. Think of this as an adventure, my lord. Davos tried to sound hale and cheerful. It's the start of your life's great adventure. May the warrior defend you. your life's great adventure. May the warrior defend you. And may the father judge you justly,

Lord Davos. The boy went with his cousin, Sir Andrew, out the postern gate. The others followed, all but the bastard of Nightsong. May the father judge me justly, Davos thought ruthlessly, but it was the king's judgment that concerned him now. but it was the king's judgment that concerned him now. Bum, bum, bum. Edric, getting on a boat, being told, think of this as an adventure, reminds me of that iconic first line of Quentin's first chapter of Adventure Stink, adventure being the boat.

So it's like Quentin, but arguably actually successful in that as far as we know, Edric has not died. Yet. Hopefully died. Yet. Hopefully never. Hopefully. Oh man, you know, he was like, Shireen's gonna be real sad when I'm gone. You know who's gonna be real sad when Shireen's gone? Edric. Ma'am.

Ma'am. You are under arrest. Pull over. Do not pass go. Do not pass go. Do not take $200. I meant to say that instead of the first one. What am I being charged with? I don't know, but you're fired. I've been charged for, what is it, emotional damages a couple of times from my tweets recently. I'll charge you with that one. Maybe third degree all right well davos commands sir roland to drag the guards in a cellar

until edrick is all good in a way then he fixes himself up puts his gloves back on and makes himself presentable to meet the king he climbs the steps he arrives to the stone drum where the guards let the king's hand through he thinks on his time as the king's hand, and then about his time as a smuggler. We have this line of, The blind bastard used to tell him that a clever smuggler did not overreach, nor draw too much attention to himself. A few acres, a timbered roof, a sir before my name, I should have been content. If he survived this night, he would take Devon and sail home to Cape Wrath and his gentle Maria. We will grieve together for our dead sons, raise the living ones to be good men, and speak

no more of kings. Reader, this is not in fact what Davos does. Go the fuck home to your wife. Go home. You keep saying you're gonna. You've done it like three chapters in a row you're like if i live through this i'm gonna take my son and go and you keep not doing it money where your

mouth is annie up i'm like what what does davos want you know he's telling himself that this is what he wants but i'm like but that's not what he does yeah well every single time there's like the pavlovian response because stannis is like here boy and then he's like good job you did really good today and here's one gold star sticker and now we're gonna go do this and then that's the last thing we have to do and then they get there and stannis is like it turns out we have to do one more thing, Davos. And then they go to the next place. And it's like, and then it turns out there's one more. So there's always one more thing.

And I mean, like, maybe I think that's the point, right? That's why. And it's all leading up to that one thing that that horrible point where Stannis can no longer say, but one more thing. And Davos will be like, no, no more. I mean, that's the thing is people don't want to change until they hit rock bottom and davos hit rock bottom and he still hasn't changed literally he hit rock bottom on the black water and he still hasn't changed and it's fascinating that that's the start of his story right in a storm of swords and this is the last chapter of

a storm of swords and we see we see a progression right like we see him changing but he's not and again that's the point he's not all right he's still like not going home yet i think and we'll definitely talk way more about this as we get into a dance with dragons as we forge our way into a double but i think that the time for that may come in the winds of winter and unfortunately it might be too late for him to be able to be like fuck you i quit because stannis might be like fuck you i'm dead yeah actually though well there's something interesting here in Davos's betrayal of Melisandre and Stannis, right?

He's reflecting on his time, and chapter before this, Jaime enters the city to a change of hands, so to speak, much like Davos at the beginning of this book, entering Dragonstone. He's told Tyrion murdered Joffrey, and now is the Master of Coin, but then he got arrested, so no longer that. And Jaime gets hand jobs thrown at him in many ways though he refuses and it's kind of like how davos shows up and the hands in jail he's in jail then suddenly he's the hand and he's out of jail when davos came into dragon stone shit was fubar she was so fucked up it's just bad and now he's looking around and he's comfortable he knows the lay of the land men are giving him a tiny bit of respect like these guards right before

he leaves once more to resume his life of smuggling interesting and and the reflection right you're talking about it how he's reflecting on his time and the way that it manifests is interesting because again last time davos did some smuggling it was pitch dark below the earth right you couldn't see it the sky or anything and melisandre was the only light as she was like releasing this shadow baby and now davos is like thinking about like all these different fires and he's looking up at the dark night sky he's like somewhere out there beneath the pale moonlight and an american tale and there are many other lights up there in the sky not just one that's drowning out the rest and it really feels hopeful until like two seconds later when he's like it's dark again

and then we go into another interesting piece of imagery talking about the shadows as earlier now the light casts davos's shadow interestingly across the painted table so that's another one of those things where it feels like the idea of power right and that political force and shadow coming through like that way and if tyrian's shadow like as the hand you know it was like large and he's talked about as being like a giant or a king. Davos is here is described as tall and thin and like a sword. And I'm kind of curious, like what this means. Like this is symbolic somehow. Right.

And I think there's one interpretation of it as justice. Right. We see swords usually tied with justice in terms of the series symbolism, maybe execution, maybe describing Davos as like a tool or sort of power or maybe there's this idea of like davos as being stannis's true light bringer not of prophecy though but like shining the light on the right way and i don't know i don't know if you have any thoughts about this what it could mean or if maybe our listeners have any thoughts yeah i think that's a really great

way to view davos because he does he brings light right everywhere he goes he actually is the real light in the room not just the sword which will be taken out soon for him to read by there's a song by covenant called light bringer that i very much like i uh actually very much recommend it it's kind of an edm gothish uh kind of song but it's a good one i'm gonna i'm gonna send you a link maybe you know light bringer all right we'll put it in the description okay it's a song of ice and fire but mostly fire maybe i don't i don't know anything about it a song of light and darkness oh wow davos continues his ascent to the chamber of the painted table where he awaits mel and stannis they arrive shortly after arguing about whether three is three as they enter stannis is in doubt

but davos steps forward from the shadows to confirm melisandre saw it true in the flames joffrey's dead choked on food at his wedding feast your nephew was poisoned maybe stana says he is not my nephew though i believed he was for years i love this because of course the true nephew actual nephew, just got sent away to Lys to be saved from death. But his fake nephew just died. Yeah, and he's like, he means nothing to me. Where's my nephew so I can burn him? This is how you treat your real nephews, damn.

Yeah. I hate how you treat your fake nephews. Yeah. I hate how you treat your fake nephews. He walks along the table, the painted table, and he walks past Old Town, past the Arbor, and toward the Shield Islands. I really love this visually because this is actually where some of the craziest stuff is going to be happening in the Winds of Winter, right? In Old Town, the Arbor, the Shield Islands. We know Euron's going to be descending and bringing his own long night down on the people here but these lands are significant for stannis because these are the

lands that have kind of vexed him the most right like these are the lands that by marriage right they should have supported him but they didn't and they loved his brother more instead. They loved Renly. So kind of significant that George points out Stannis is walking past the Shield Islands and the Arbor and Oldtown. That is interesting. And you were talking about, you know, Joffrey as like his false nephew, right? And these same lands supported the Fobberathian as well. Yep. So, yeah, that is interesting.

Well, Davos stresses that Joffrey's real uncle, the Imp, was the Poisoner, and that he learned about this information from Salador San, who again, great taste in olives, and i want to thank um

listener michael archidiacono for sending us um we forgot we forgot to call out michael a few episodes ago but i want to i want to thank michael for giving us um olive location recommendations yes absolutely and eliana and i are already planning an Olive date, mostly because Olive hurt. Oh, Olive, you too. Oh! Eliana, you should know. We're having fun. This is it.

This is the cast. We have a podcast together. Oh, I love you so much. We're going to do this for four years. Well, no, that was the original plan who knows who knows it's still four years four more years every time four more years four four more years i saw my shadow oh my god stanis saw his shadow four more years oh my god stanis regales them then with the tale of joffrey cutting open a pregnant cat, showing the kittens to his father, and that Robert had hit him so hard

he thought Joffrey died. Ah, like Arian with the cat. I don't remember what Arian did with the cat. Oh, he also murdered kittens and cats. Pretty awful. Yeah. Arian was pretty awful, so was Joffrey. They should hang out.

In the afterlife. Oh, they might. In the seven hells that Robert's always talking about. They're probably on parlor. Well, maybe not anymore. Well, this memory, courtesy of Stannis, um, actually serves a couple of reasons. It functions a different couple of different ways in this story. First off, again, Stannis reliving his ghosts of Robert. And then next, you know, talking about Joffrey and Arian,

we of course all know that Joffrey was abusive and violent, right? We all saw it. We all read these books. It was right there. And I think on one hand, this scene is meant to show us that he might have just been a psychopath based on his cruelty toward animals which i think you know people refer to the scene as an indicator of that um and and george is channeling that idea here but i think

it also illustrates how joffrey's abusiveness was, to some respects, very much a learned behavior from his father. He endured it himself. He tells Sansa, my mother says that a king should never hit his wife. And his mother, in saying that, is referring to the fact that Robert hits her, right? And this is what Joffrey is raised to think that love is like. This is normal to him. And it also circles back to Edric Storm, who is Robert's biological son, and, you know, arguably might have been fortunate to grow up out of Robert's reach when you compare it to Joffrey's own

upbringing. Edric likes the stories because he loves the tales, the stories, the legends. It's what Sansa loves about the songs, and I think those are kind of similar in that way. And Davos channels Robert's memory, Robert's legend, to give Edric courage to sail away. And so it's really jarring to see the idea that Edric has, this ideal he has of Robert, juxtaposed with this very real-lived memory that Stannis has of Robert's violence, not his bravery, to a child that's placed in his own care.

And Stannis is thinking to himself, maybe, I wonder if he's thinking that he's not like Robert in that respect. We don't have his point of view chapters, so I do kind of wonder. But as he thinks about Robert's pretended son and his treatment of him, he's getting ready right now to steal himself uh to sacrifice robert's son by blood and then you know he later on commits an even worse crime right against his own child worse than what robert did to joffrey yeah and you can see why stannis sees edrick's life as lesser than anyone's else with all that logic right i mean he's composed of

robert's blood the man that he just explained he saw act this way and that people still adored robert over stannis even when they knew the true monster he was robert gets to wear the smith's t-shirt that's too small for him but when stannis does it it's not cute you know what i mean no i'm just kidding but it is what he sees he sees edrick is like oh your father was actually a piece of shit you're probably a piece of shit and that stannis has kept this memory i mean it's a it's a jarring memory regardless right he thought that his nephew was dead by his brother's hand and at this time he does believe that joffrey's his nephew. And as you said, they adore Robert for this despite. And, you know, Stannis comes back often, right?

We discussed this to how Robert did not love him. And so I think that like, in Stannis keeping this memory and also bringing it up, it's an example of now how he sees Robert as, in general, unloving. Right? Like, this is who Robert is to his family and to the people who look up to him. Yeah, that memory has just worsened over time with him. Especially as the plate and as the crown, you know, the cup that he's been handed

has just grown and grown in size and become harder and heavier to bear, especially. I think it worsens. Yeah. And that he, I mean, like, I'm not saying that this is equivalent in any way, but I wonder if Stannis thinks then well of, he's like, you know, I had a difficult go of it with his own, like, heirs, and the difficulties that Shireen faced with her with

her illness and he's like damn i'm glad i'm not like that and maybe he tries to be different from robert because of that seeing the way that robert was as a parent well stannis takes off the crown finally no i'm just kidding it's's not for good. And he sighs. He says, whether it was dwarf or leech, the kingdom has been served well. They must send for me to rule now. And Melisandre's like, bad news. They're not going to send for you. Joffrey has a brother named Tommen.

Stannis grudgingly realizes, oh, they're gonna rule through him, born of the same incest, a monster in the making, a leech on the land. Damn, he legit remembered, like, the shit that his, like, other pretended nephew went through, and, like, legit forgot that he had another nephew. He's forgetting he has a niece,

too. Notice he doesn't bring up Myrcella. It's like, if Domyn dies, like, obviously people are gonna look to Myrcella before they go to you, Stannis. That's pretty bad when people want Myrcella before him, which we'll probably see that in the Winds of Winter 2. Yeah, but at least then he has, like, different problems. He's got different problems to distract him. He's got 99 problems. He really got different problems to distract him. He's got 99 problems. He really does, though.

At least. And that little bitch Axel Florent is one of them. Amen. Hallelujah, sister. Melisandre tells him to then save them. Let her wake the stone dragons and give her the boy. And Davos is like edric storm

his name is edric storm and stanis snaps at him to spare him his reproaches and that his duty is to the realm and he asked mel sandra to swear on her life that there is no other way and then she launches into a speech about how he is the chosen one the prophesied one the red comet heralded him i used to know the speech but i forgot it this is one of the ones i performed and if stannis fails and the world fails with him again big pokemon 2000 the movie vibes turns to the prophecy with ash and melisandre melisandre went to him her red lips parted her ruby throbbing give me this boy she whispered and I will give

you your kingdom okay so you know how she launches into that whole speech where she's like you're the chosen one in the prophecy she doesn't say she doesn't say that there's no other way.

She answers it with this big speech. That's true, you're right. And she's like, oh, just listen, Stannis, you're the chosen one. You're the one. You're the only one. The comet was across the sky for you. She doesn't say the words, my king, there's no other way. You have to let me.

She doesn't say that. That's interesting. She says, let me. I doesn't say that she just says let me i didn't really think about it till now but i'm like oh yeah she doesn't really say correct it's the only way and also that she like to what we were talking about last episode she's like give me the boy and i will give you your kingdom but all the shit she's saying the prophecy has nothing to do with the kingdom yeah and he also nothing to do with the boy like he doesn't care about edrick like it's not a sacrifice yeah agreed more than that though this is a seduction if you couldn't tell listeners how i seduced you with my melisandre voice she really did um yeah did you feel that you feel that all of you now my ruby is throbbing

oh my god my ruby's throbbing too what are we talking about hard nipples a lot of how melisandre is portrayed through davis's plot kind of reminds me of babylon in the bible not just melisandre is portrayed through davis's plot kind of reminds me of babylon in the bible not just melisandre but also stannis's miniature kingdom right this i'll give you your kingdom business she's saying in the old testament the city of babylon birthed an empire that ruled the world right it placed its worldview on those that it conquered. Those that Babylon, which Babylon became referred to as a she, right? The empire was so large, so vast, they called it she. Those she did not destroy, she subverted. She was brutal, callous, proud, and believed she'd reign over earth forever. Her way of rule was looked at culturally as very different, very frowned upon. She thought herself a god, and in her actions,

God struck her down. He smote her. The empire falls super suddenly, very unpleasantly. The Babylonians begin to starve. They have to strangle and kill their own children and women, as people just keep going hungry to stop people from starving and make sure they had enough food. They don't appear in the Bible again for about, oh, 630 years until the New Testament. They show up and they start to signify, when Babylon is spoken about, it signifies a world at war with God. Peter actually uses Babylon several times as a code to talk about this culture war with the church and covenant community. Babylon's not heard from again until, of course, the revelations, and we see her as an agent of the beast. And there came one of the seven angels,

which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither, I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters, with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been that sitteth upon many waters, with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness, and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colors decked with gold precious stones pearls having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness

of her fornication and upon her forehead was a name written mystery babylon the great the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus, and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. That's from Revelation 17, 1 through 9, and Melisandre is kind of portrayed as the lady in red, the whore of Babylon, the harlot that swayed Stannis. When it's clear from most of this, he's not exactly swayed by her necessarily, but by her promises, right? Of power, promise of a new age, a new regime where he's able to wield this power against those that have hurt him. I don't think Stannis 100% is a one-one fit to the beast or anything, unless you think about how the first beast rose from the sea and

was given authority by the dragon so in my head that's kind of like robert and the second beast is a false prophet who tells everyone to worship the first beast back when the first beast is still alive right so like stannis did hold out during robert's rebellion rah rah go robert i'm just saying you did support him at one time stannis and stannis is kind of gonna be a false prophet in the end eh yeah i mean he is right that's how he's being set up to be and because i mean melisandre's feeding all of this to him and because Stannis desperately wants something to believe in he wants something to have faith in he wants to believe

in himself because he feels like no one has ever done that for him before and so he's willing to set himself up as he thinks he's Jesus Christ and as you said he's the beast you know and that's part it's interesting the idea that the false prophet themselves don't know He thinks he's Jesus Christ. Yeah. And as you said, he's the beast, you know?

And that's part... It's interesting, the idea that the false prophet themselves don't know that they are false. Yeah. Not yet. Not till they fall. Yeah. I mean, Stannis, he saw it in the flames. There's no lake of fire, right? It's lake of ice for Stannis, but...

That is true. He makes his own fire. And, I mean, he is a prophet, right? In some ways, he saw it in the flames the crown of fire engulfing him but has taken i guess a false reading of it i mean he's taken the right reading from it he's just chosen to be like well gotta keep going forward on this path can't stop not a single thing i can do to change it won't stop that's stannis right now

and yeah i mean it's interesting also to think of him as this beast and bringing this sort of apocalyptic idea because that is kind of how he was perceived right initially by the people of king's landing and people don't quite fear him as much anymore after that well national embarrassment it kind of was and you know what there's even more bad news coming because turns out this beast isn't gonna be able to burn edrick as davos tells them because edrick's been sprung on a lysine galley safe to see and davos is watching melisandre's face during this and he's like oh my god we did it we tricked her because her face looks uncertain he's like she didn't see it yeah that's so interesting that in order to have your destiny not be seen in the flames you have to keep it quiet and think about anything but it when in the presence of her and just like keep her that's so

interesting and we have to see that again george can't just leave me like this i want to see that used again i think it does i think that i you know i hadn't thought about that and you brought it up earlier this this episode and it has to come back it's such an interesting mechanic yeah i mean it's already happening to her. She just doesn't know it yet. Stannis is furious about all this. He's mad. He blames it immediately on that lysine pirate. But Melisandre's like, no, this was your hand's work. His handiwork. So I think that language Stannis uses here to refer to Edric is interesting. There was a lot of focus, of course, last chapter on how they keep calling Edric the boy, right? It's very dehumanizing, makes it easier to see

him as an object. And it's done to lead up to this moment where he's like, all right, you guys, there's no other way we got to burn Edric. And then suddenly when he can't burn Edric, Edric's out of his reach. Stannis snaps, he stops stops calling edrick the boy but he doesn't call him edrick he calls him the bastard quite angrily you know as we see he's furious so i think that that's quite mean it's very mean and it's absolutely being used to devalue him right especially now that he can't have him now he's just trying to completely devalue him. And he immediately demands that Davos bring him back. He's like, bring him back! But Davos says, the boy is out of reach of all of them. And Melisandre's like, do you know what you've done?

Davos says, my duty. Throws it back in their face. Got him! Got him, Davos! Got him! Stannis thinks, some may call it tre treason he goes to stare out of his window into the night and he turns around exhausted to tell davos that he raised him up from dirt and all he hoped for was loyalty davos rebuts that he has loyalty four of my sons died for you and i almost

died myself but here i am, Stannis. Stannis made Davos swear to give him honest counsel, swift obedience, and to defend his realm and people. Davos counters, is Edric Storm not one of them? He concludes that I kept my oath. How could that be treason? I never asked for this crown. Gold is cold and heavy on the head, but so long as I am the king, I have a duty. If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark, sacrifice is never easy, Davos, or it is no true sacrifice tell him my lady melisandre said azura

high tempered light bringer with the heart's blood of his own beloved wife if a man with a thousand cows gives one to god that is nothing but a man who offers the only cow he owns. She talks of cows! I am speaking of a boy. Your daughter's friend. Your brother's son. A king's son, with the power of king's blood in his veins. Melisandre's ruby glowed like a red star at her throat.

Do you think you've saved this boy, Onion Knight? When the long night falls, Edric Storm shall die with the rest, wherever he is hidden. Your own sons as well. Darkness and cold will cover the earth. You meddling matters you do not understand. I got a couple thoughts about this first thing is that stannis talks about his crown

and says that gold is cold and heavy on the head which reminds me of a few things first thing it reminds me of is hands of gold are always cold right bringing that Bringing that connection in. Yep. And the second thing it reminds me of is a crown of gold a la Viserys. Hmm. Yes. That one was actually very hot. Not cold, in fact. You're sharp, Eliana.

You know that? My blades are sharp. Settle down. Stop bolting aroundting around you know she's all like you have sons blah blah blah you're you know do you think you're safe with all of this you understand and he doesn't really have that many sons left because of supporting this cause like really insensitive that melisandre's like you understand how it is with your own sons they're gonna be screwed if you don't listen to what i say for the long night and he's like they were already screwed yeah absolutely he he was meddling in matters he did think he understood

maybe he didn't and like you said lost them so he sure understands now yeah i mean like what's three more i guess i mean that's not what he's saying but but that's what they want him to say pretty much and for him to be like i mean i mean if they were his sons he wouldn't want that happening to them and that's part of why davos is like i don't want this happening i mean devin's a similar age right of edrick and he's like whoa whoa whoa and you know the line in here right sacrifice is never easy Stannis says that and I'm like seems like it's not because I

would say that there is a sacrifice happening here losing Edric is in fact the real sacrifice not giving him to the flames cause turns out that is very very difficult for Stannis to take right he's taking it very hard and yeah he is yeah he not taking this well and that's like an understatement he's like

he's angry right like this is one of the few times you see that baratheon anger come out in stannis and he's like getting ready to execute davos right then and there but Davos you know coming back to his sons he knows about loss and sacrifice because he sacrificed for them already he's like don't fucking talk to me about sacrifice but he doesn't say that he doesn't even say that in his head but he should have anyways he does get some more clapbacks though it's not over yeah he gets a couple more but this is pretty good my favorite ones come in here because he says there's much i don't understand but i do know a king protects his people or he's no king at all and stanis is like excuse me excuse me oh yeah that gets him real mad and i just

realized that that i wonder if that's a play that construction right that a king protects his people or he's no king at all it reminds me though is in a very different idea of a king doesn't like have to say he's a king or else he is no true king at all right a king should not have to remind people he's a king and so two different ideas of what power is and what one should do with power. We actually hear the line again in Cersei VI in A Feast for Crows. A hulking lout with a seven-pointed star on his brow is preaching. And he says a king who does not protect his people is no king at all. Out in the crowd of people among the faith. Interesting. king at all out in the crowd of people among the faith interesting and i mean like arguably these

are people who don't get called king that's the reason why they're so bitter so the idea that kingship should be more about protection than being called king again different ideas different philosophies on the word stannis is completely taken back by all this and davos immediately kneels and he says i'll die as i lived loyal to you but for the sake of my fingers and onions you must hear me stannis slides lightbringer out and davos pulls parchment from his pocket explaining maester pylos has been teaching him to read he smooths the letter, and by the light of the sword, Davos reads it to Stannis. So, we all know what's in the letter because we did that last

chapter. Regarding it, though, the book says, It seemed a thin and flimsy thing, yet it was all the shield he had. And it reminds me, of course, of Ned, that other hand, who also had a paper shield, but this one did not protect him from Cersei.

The language of the paper shield draws that connection, but, you know, it does work for Davos here, right? But there are some similarities, in that Ned was also lying to his own Baratheon king, you know, doing a mistruth and writing his will, which would actually have made Stannis king, of course, as we all know. And he's also dealing with another Baratheon bastard, who, as we all know, is a Lannister bastard. We covered that earlier in this episode. And he's trying to protect those kids, even though one of them's a pretty heinous kid.

He's trying to do something a little similar to what davos tried to do right and thankfully for davos this paper shield does work with stannis and i do think that that's a testament of course to stannis's character that he's like wait but maybe you're right maybe it doesn't matter at this moment in my life that no one calls me king but it will matter for me in the Jon chapters that we've already covered. But I should be protecting my people, and he kind of has very different interpretations of protecting my people than I do.

But so do all the other people in Night's Watch, except for Jon, I guess. Anyway, the language as Davos reads it, by the light of the sword. The sword is described earlier in this chapter as the idea of judgment. We know that Stannis is very much associated with that idea.

He's also pretty judgy, just in general, like, as a person. And Davos, right, we talked about him, he's, as opposed to being a sword of light, a sword of shadow. So there's some different clashing imagery here that I think is really strong goes well yeah and the stuff about net is very strong here right because his protection of bastards and

protecting joffrey uh in that last moment and lying to save the children is obviously from his past experiences and seeing the children rolled up in Lannister crimson to stop people from seeing the blood seeping through the sheet but it all flows back to Jon right the boy who cared an eventual lord commander who cares like you said is he mad a little bit but he still made some crazy progress during his reign as Lord Commander before sadly being murdered. And in the next chapter, which is a Jon chapter right after this, Jon has his own Blackwater where he's flinging barrels of pitch off the wall in a fight that feels like they should probably die during. Right. They do not have enough strength to survive it. And somehow they survive. Jon and Davos are both treasonous traitors. John even though he knew he could be executed for deserting still made a

huge effort to make his way back to the Night's Watch and tell them what was on its way to kill them to meet them in battle. Davos still had the conviction to stand up and face Stannis after freeing Edric Storm, after doing what he thought was the right thing. Both of these boys, these men, accept that to be an honorable man and uphold their code, they have to be held accountable for the actions that they do. They don't see themselves as better than any other man, right? They immediately turn themselves in for these actions and they come out on top which is kind of a rare thing to happen in a story for underdogs except for the part where john gets

murdered well besides that part besides that part that you know that's a temporary state whatever who amongst us has not died at least once and then been resurrected via blood magic whom's amongst us i actually just watched an episode of the Vampire Diaries where that happened, so I really feel like it's more popular than you all think. Might be more common than you think. For any- It could happen to any of us.

Could happen to any of us. Also murder, but yeah, absolutely with the treasonous traitors part and, you know, both of those, as you said, come up in this book. And I think we might discuss this more in the next book, too. Right. But both of them are doing this interesting thing here. Right. As you said, their acts of treason that make them traitors are some of their noblest acts. For Jon, it's coming back and warning the Night's Watch after everything. And he does it again, right? On a larger scale when he's like, let's let the free folk through the wall. And

he fucks up, though, when he's like, let's march on Winterfell. That was not part of his duty. That was things that he wanted to do for himself. But both Jon and Davos, right? And so that shows that this is like clearly a recurring problem with stannis like this is a personal problem on his part because davos here commits treason by

sending one bastard with king's blood away right john does the same but through a baby switch in sending away man's raider's child so that's another way that that both of them really have this tie and the way that you see them both really progress throughout this book and the next one and by the next one i mean dance yes because we do not see davos directly in a feast for crows unfortunately and we think we do not see Davos directly in A Feast for Crows, unfortunately. We think we do. This is going to be crazy. We think we do. No, that's true. We think we do. That's going to be crazy, though, that we now have A Feast for Crows to quickly, briefly discuss in our Davos 1, A Dance with Dragons. I think we'll say what we have to say about it, which is it is a superior book to many other books.

Some within this very series wow most within this very series feast is still my favorite which again that that that was a surprise to me the day that i was like what is it um i do still really got i uh i think it's feast and clash are my two faves for me i think it's Feast and Clash are my two faves. For me, I think it's Feast and Storm. I'm still a little basic. Yeah, you are. It's okay. All of you.

Oh my god. Well, the next time we talk to all of you... All of you. The next time we will speak to all of you. All of you. The next time we will speak to all of you, it will be about Davos 1 in a Davada in a Dance with Dragons. Davada! That should be next week. So I'm excited to talk about Davos in a Dance with Dragons. It's personally some of my favorite stuff.

Some stuff that's pretty compelling happens. I love getting to see the North. Yes. It's very exciting to me. Very exciting indeed. And the journey there. New places. New adventures. A boat. Closer looks at old characters and new alike. Yes.

Some cool hair dye. And eventually, Skagos. We won't get there, but. In Toowowowo. No, T-wow. Toowow. Toowow.

Toow. Toow. Toow. Toow. Everyone, thank you so much for listening. We'll be back next week with another episode of Davos. We're gonna jump right in before we get to our next new POV. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you send us a quick

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themed. Some birds don't fly. As always, I have been one of your hosts Chloe and I have been another one of your hosts Eliana I love you I love you too thank you Michael

thanks Michael this is sure to give us joy for all the time for all of the time see you guys next week