Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 115 - ADWD Davos II

Episode Date: February 5, 2021

White Harbor has changed  in the last six years - is it for the better, or for the worse? Davos feels conflicted as he decides for himself. Adam Feldman's analysis on: Tyrion in ADWD: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/lafylm/spoilers_extended_a_decade_writing_dance_part_1/ Dany in ADWD: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/lc23vz/spoilers_extended_a_decade_writing_dance_part_2_a/ Miouooo: A Warrior Cats Pawedcats : https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/miouooo-a-warrior-cats-pawedcats/id1524800759 --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon in A Song of Ice and Fire, episode 115, Davos 2 in A Dance with Dragons. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. A-do-a-duh, if you will. And by that I mean like D-E-U-X, like duh. A-do-a-duh. A-duh. A-duh. We're reading a-duh a do a do divos uh i i'm really enjoying this

reread of a dance with dragons with davos i these are strong chapters he is strong on his own i do too uh in dance and also as following all the rest of his other chapters, all of his chapters are really strong. We have had a really good time talking a little bit about Davos in the Discord the last week. We've also announced the new POV

to patrons that are in the Thunder tier and above. If you're listening to this by Thursday, you will have access to that. But we have announced a new POV and it's gotten everyone talking about some of these connections and I'm seeing them. I'm seeing them for this POV in this chapter. It's almost like we chose the POV that follows after on purpose. It's almost like we chose any of these POVs on purpose. We did. We sat down, we had a brain session. There was a lot of negotiation, right? Like there was a lot of negotiation right like there was a lot of like no i think this should go here and a lot of like all right all right you're right

and then we're like wait but then where does this go and then we're like shit we forgot these and what we're trying to say is that soon you dear listener will be able to hear what the next one is the next one where you and I, Eliana, we're like, aha! What if we put here because of this part of this? It's like a jigsaw puzzle, but it's not going to mean anything. There's a recently,

one of the content creators who might greatly admire Feldman, Adam Feldman, put out another essay after it's been a while since he last put something out. And towards the end, he was analyzing in his essay then put out another essay after it's been a while since he last put something out and towards the end he was analyzing in his essay the growth of the tyrian chapters in adowina and at the end wrote hopefully someday and i'm paraphrasing but the words hopefully someday were actually verbatim

hopefully someday i can analyze the growth of the Tyrion chapters over 10 years in the winds of winter. I feel that way. Hopefully someday. It'll all mean something when we look back on it. essay that's been out. So the second I sent anything to you, you're like, yep, been there, done that. But he also talked about how he's going to cover a chapter, which I went over and read the summary of it, but a chapter summary of Daenerys and the Fighting Pits in Meereen, one of its original stages that George read it as in 2003. So I'm really excited about that as well. That'll be interesting when he does that, because as many know, this was, was I think originally George's opening chapter for Daenerys in A Dance with Dragons until you know he realized wait I have a mirror and he's not we got to redo a bunch of things

as we all know is now one of the last few Daenerys chapters in A Dance with Dragons. That is a jigsaw puzzle to figure out and we we will, I'll go ahead and I'll link those below. So make sure to check it out in the details of this episode, as well as anything else that comes up. Who knows? Anything could happen. As Davos is learning. It's anyone's Game of Thrones.

Yes, fuck. Along with some of those essays that we've been seeing around the internet, some people have sent us some really good thoughts of their own. And we actually got a lot of really great messages this week, and some are perhaps better suited for the next few Davos chapters. So we're going to leave a little bit

left over and only cover a few of the emails we got. We got an email from our friend Will, and this is a really good one. I'm pretty excited about this. Will said, Hey girls and cats. Important. They don't get enough shout outs. That's true. Actually, they don't. You mentioned Davos's childhood mentor, Roro Yohoris. His name sounds like George making a pun on Roro your boat. I wonder if it actually is not just a pun, but also kind of like a class signifier with a subtle nod to the status of children here.

Hot Pie, for example, is an orphan whose name came from his employer slash master, who made him yell that phrase so much it became his entire identity. Could Roro have a similar backstory, right? He could have started as a nameless orphan who found himself at work on a boat with men of different backgrounds, repeating, Roro, your oars row oars you know he says that it's kind of the george rr martin hodor-esque name thing going on right hodor row your oars and it also provides a future source of conflict right when we see davos who has various characters in his future that are the status of children. We've already seen Stannis and Edric Storm's conflict and how that affected Davos,

but how would Davos respond to Varys and Illyrio's treatment of their little birds? What will he think of anyone who executes a child hostage? How will he react to finding out about Mel's backstory as a child slave? The way players manipulate child rulers. What about Rickon? Oh, we might talk about that one later. The ghost of Roro may well shape Davos's arc and wins either explicitly or implicitly. There was a quick PS for you specifically, Aliana. I thought this was an interesting email. Like many of the best headcanons expands on a lot of that emotional background for

characters that we get that we only get a little bit of. That idea, right, that his name is adapted from that, since, as Will says, George plays with this a little bit, and giving it a little bit of a tie-in with the themes that we're seeing in Davos's chapters, especially like here, right, we're seeing a lot of that discussion on children's safety in this chapter. seeing a lot of that discussion on children's safety in this chapter overall i thought this was really clever actually with ro ro you horus ro ro your oars similar sound so good catch on that yeah i i will i have some of those same questions right of like i mean if davos even finds out what berries and aleria are doing with the little birds and Alessandra's backstory and Rickon's. And I think you're going to talk about Rickon a little bit later in this episode and

perhaps in further episodes. So those are questions that I have. Keeping on track with the cats. My god. We did greet the cats, right? Will extended a greeting to them. And we're going to give them another nod from an email from Simon. This one tickled me a little. Simon says, I was catching up on Aswath episode 106, Clash of Kings Davos 2, part 2. Wow, that's right, we did that. We did split

up the Davos chapters. These are dense. These are good chapters, these Davos chapters. Anyway, Simon says, in which Eliana ponders in the beginning of the episode whether a podcast exists. Well, it does. says in which Eliana ponders in the beginning of the episode whether a podcats podcast exists well it does I am a co-host of mew a warrior cats podcats spelled p-a-w-e-d-c-a-t-s which is honestly beyond my wildest dreams that's way better than what I was proposing before and said

that we might like to know. And that's true. I did, in fact, want to know. So thank you, Simon. Your wildest cat dreams, even. Oh, wow. What a nice email. You know, Simon, thank you so much because you have Eliana feline something special right now. Amazing.

Promoted. And damn, it's really good. we'll we'll link simon's pod cats again thank you simon for letting us know this has brought us great joy absolutely this of course leads us into our lightning round if you're new to us or if you need a reminder our lightning round is of course where we catch up on the chapters we missed in between Davos 1 and Davos 2. We'll start off with Jon 3. The Free Folk give up their belongings to find safety beyond the Wall. Jon notes that Stannis' sword is false. Daenerys 2. Daenerys sees traitors around her. Quaithe gives her guidance.

Reek 1. Reek one. Reek must help his master bring Arya Stark home. Bran two. Deep within the cave, the three-eyed raven rests. Tyrion four. Tyrion faces Halden in a game of Savas, and they tread down the river aboard the shy maid. And that brings us to Davos II, Adowada.

Davos enters White Harbor for the first time in years and surveys the changes that come in wartime. Yes, Davos is sneaking into White Harbor as a common sailor aboard the ship, the Merry Midwife. The cog is old, with a figurehead holding an infant by its foot. But woman and babe are pocked by wormholes, and the sails are tattered. So I don't know what this means in the context of Davos's story, but it did feel significant in that we've spoken a bit about the myth of Achilles and Achilles' heel in Cersei and Jaime's storyline, mostly in Jaime's probably,

and that heel being the weak spot, right? Because when Jaime and Cersei were born, Cersei was born first, and then Jaime was holding her ankle as he came out. This figurehead, the woman is holding the baby by the foot, it's kind of reminiscent of that same myth, right? Of how Thedas, Achilles' mother, held him by the foot to dip him into the river sticks, which renders him almost immortal except for, again, his left heel, myth right of how thetis achilles's mother held him by the foot to dip him into the rivers river sticks which renders him almost immortal except for again his left heel because she's holding him by that and i i don't know what it means maybe we're seeing something in this chapter that might be davos's achilles heel that's a great thought but especially here with this figurehead it's a

woman holding an infant right and being packed by wormcked by wormholes, decaying. In a way, the first thing I thought of was Shireen and how Selyse would have likely held her as a baby, right? And made me think of her with her greyscale. But also here, I think it reminds me of Maria, the merry midwife. I think so too. The figurehead when they show up holding an infant by its foot.

And the woman and babe are both pocked by wormholes. I mean, they're pocked by the fucking scars of Davos's absence and what has happened to her sons and her children. The memories they're tainted and eaten away at. Yeah, she's had to deal with all that on her own, right? While taking care of the two children. And yeah, there's a lot of things here that it could be. Well, Davos had not hoped to arrive in white harbor this way but plans sure had changed as we know from last chapter

had white harbor sent ravens of allegiance they might have had a merry arrival indeed stannis had hoped to show his strength with davos arriving on the great valyrian the ship and the lysine fleet behind him but of course the storms wrote an end to all of this, though, and now he must smuggle himself into the white walls of the city that erupt in front of him. splendid and again i know that we're strangely like solidor stawns on this podcast uh and this train of thought i think will deepen a little bit more as davos reflects on what happened and the process is the storm but you know solidor like just really lost his fleet and his livelihood like a big portion of it for like his bro davos you know and he's got a lot of wives and kids to provide for here yeah and i mean a lot of people died probably in the stores too so who also might have had families probably some

yeah it's not great it does make me wonder had they shown up in that manner, like in the phrase where they're like the exact same situation, that may have gone so great. Yeah, I don't really know how it would have gone, especially with people being like, as we'll see, people aren't really talking about Stannis, they'll be like, what the fuck is happening? will be like what the fuck is happening well and obviously as they say like once the second that stannis found out like they weren't responding that's when davos was sent right to go infiltrate and figure it out and be a smuggler again as we've discussed he was sent for smuggling skills uh because otherwise he would have gone in guns blazing it would have been like, pow pow, we're here, Stannis, Stannis! And then all of White Harbor would be like, fuck no, fuck no! Yeah, especially with their 23 hidden ships

as we get to it. Yeah, because things have changed, right? Davos hasn't visited White Harbor in at least six years, and the defenses have definitely strengthened, though he's trying to figure out how. And a large stone wall with towers has been erected, and Seal Rock, which Davos only knew definitely strengthened, though he's trying to figure out how. And a large stone wall with towers has been erected, and seal rock! Which Davos

only knew to be ruins, had smoke rising from it, but I like to think of it as full of seals. They're the dogs of the sea. Well, and that's what's interesting, is there used to be seals, as we'll get to. Interesting about seal rock, so

geographically, where White Harbor is, uh, and I'm going to have you do something really magical. Put your fingers out in a triangle, Aliana, right now, if you will, with me, this is a good exercise. So kind of like, okay, it's a spade. Okay. If your fingers are normal, it's kind of a spade. Pretend it's a triangle for me.

So at the very tip at the top, that's going to be White Harbor. On the left, in the very left corner, that's going to be the neck. And in your very right inner corner, that's going to be the sisters. So we're really not far, right? Like White Harbor, where it is geographically, it's basically the Veil South, right? Like it's barely part of the north, you're not too far in, geographically speaking. Also, if you recall, we were talking about Ashara Dayne's possibility in being the Fisherman's Kin. Re-Ned makes it a lot more interesting when you think about it. Anyways, I digress. Ashara is alive.

White Harbor's in the bite. They're not in the Bay of Seals. Skagos, all the way around the continent, not in the Bay of Seals Skagos, all the way around the continent, is in the Bay of Seals with actual seals and rocks the language are the language is described really interestingly it says it sits at the mouth of the Bay of Seals massive mountainous

caves, mountain fasts basically that everything is stony, so it's really interesting that White Harbor, which is kind of out of place with their new money and their religion and their immigrants to the north who accepted them, their geographical proximity and where they are, they're trying to kind of copy

into northern culture, right? Like having this big seal rock is very northern, but at the same time, their ways are not northern. They're economically very advanced. You walk into their city, and it's a port city. You have the hustle and bustle. When you walk into this chapter, it's like Arya chapters in A Feast for Crows. You hear the hustle and bustle and see the hustle and bustle of the city as you read this chapter. And something interesting about that geographical proximity for White Harbor to me is the neck being so close to it. The neck is kind of on almost native land, right? Children

of the forest land, kind of the bridge between the North and the South. They were annexed to the North, not really, you know, in their consenting to it. They were forced. The last Marsh King was defeated, forced to marry into the Starks. They were forever annexed. And both of these places, White Harbor and the Neck, want such different things. The Neck wants autonomy and respect to live their lifestyle. And the Manderlys are like,

we want a place at the table. We want to control everything, man. We're here. We want to be economically sound. And the same time, while these places are so different, they are both so fierce in their loyalty to the North and how they believe in what the North's theme is, right? Like they believed in Ned Stark's message in the way that Ned and Rickard and the men and women before them ruled the North. And I don't know, I think we see more of those parallels, not just geographically, but also on a more meta sense in the chapters, right? We meet

Willa and Winifred, who both play very different roles in the next two chapters in four and three, and very similar to Jojen and Meera, right, with the pact of ice and fire. Absolutely. And I think those are great comparisons between the two and as you're saying right they might have those differences but they have that loyalty and they both have absolutely their role to play in terms of the northern like ecosystem or something right and you were talking about the the mandrelies and and the people of white harbor right in some ways being many immigrants to the north and it's interesting that they're still seen as like that in between the sort of outsiders sort of not and we'll probably dig into this more

next chapter considering that technically if you look at it they've been there thousands of years but that maybe that doesn't mean anything george is like time whatever fuck that street cred yeah and and but it still comes through in some of the ways things are named in the in the city right like the seat of the manderleys is called newcastle and we're gonna we're gonna come to its steps this chapter but for now davos is recalling his visits to white harbor again aboard the cobble cat which was row row's boat. It was smaller. White Harbor is smaller than Old Town and King's Landing, but it's neat, clean, well-ordered

with wide cobbled streets. And Roro used to say he could tell one port from another by the way they smelled, like women. Old Town was flowery as a perfumed dowager, Linusport as a milkmaid, fresh and earthy and wood-smoking her hair,

and King's Landing reeked like an unwashed woman, while White Harbors was sharp, salty, and fishy. And then he describes it as the way a mermaid smells of the sea. We get a lot of personification of the ships in this chapter, of the port,

of the buildings, and of course just the places in general, the cities. And when the chapter that came right before this, preceding this, Tyrion talks about the shy maid in these very similar terms. He talks about how the shy maid is really apt for L'amour, because with her stretch marks and her saucy personality towards him, she's not really a shy maid. So he's like, ah ah it's kind of fitting

in an ironic sense and i think learning a lot about these port cities and their economy and how things run here and how the people make money how they live i love being on the ground i love seeing that through characters like davos and aria and even brienne at times yeah and i that's something that's really nice about this chapter, right? In that we get that personality of, as you were saying, on the ground, both between what's happening right now in the city and also through Davos's memories of what it was like, and you get to see how that city's grown.

And I just like that description in general, the personification of cities. I don't really have a deep insight into it other than, like, as a person who has been in the world we live in a society what roro said about cities each having their own personality i i really do feel that way about cities that each one kind of has its own personality it's all its own sort of organism not necessarily like a woman but a person maybe some of them are women though I don't know that they actually all smell different. Some of them all smell bad the same way, but not in every place. But anyway. Yeah, the people are the cars and the blood cells and, you know, just moving back and forth every day within the city system.

I like that a lot. Like Osmosis Jones. Yes, I was thinking of that when I was thinking of blood cells and what they look like even though that's not what they look like I mean don't they look like apple jacks they might look like that but like shape wise I feel like that's that might be the school bus no also that I was going to also propose another another one um there's this anime I forgot what it's called it's like red like blood cells and something similar idea it's called cells at it's called cells at work what it's called. It's like red blood cells and something. Similar idea. It's called Cells at Work,

and it's a great educational show about how your body works. And you have some little characters who are like the red blood cells, and some are the T cells, and then... It's real cute. The more you know. Davos smells some new scents, right? White Harbor hasn't specifically changed, but there's some new scents, like the smoke coming from Seal Rock. Seal Rock juts into the water about 40 to 50 feet. It's topped with a ring fort of weathered stones of the First Men. Interesting.

For centuries, they'd been empty, but now Davos sees scorpions and spitfires hiding behind the stones and crossbowmen manning them as well so this is kind of insignificant but the language here kind of reminds me in parallels what happened at the fist of the first men right with all that first men stuff around here and then for the first time in many years so many people there preparing for war, just like how the rangers were doing the first enormous ranging in a while. That entire ring being like this interesting ring of, you know, stones jutting up, you know, very Stonehenge. Yeah. The stones in a circle of the first men. I'm not trying to say the pattern from the show with with the others but maybe it means something after all

who knows yeah and i mean george is of course very much inspired by those kinds of structures not necessarily the show but i mean of course the show because again he's he's writing it based off of that easter island shit and as you said literally stonehenge yeah i don't know how inspired he is by this but i'm inspired by the seals that used to bask on the rocks and when davos was younger ro ro had told him to always count the seals because the more seals there are the more luck well shit because there are no seals now eliana when i tell you that davos davos Davos, Davos Seaworth, had the audacity, the audacity to then think, I can't believe I have to say this. If I had a thimble full of sense, I would have gone south with Sala to Maria, to our sons. I've lost four sons in the king's service, and my fifth serves as his squire.

I should have the right to cherish the two boys who still remain. It has been too long since I saw them. When I tell you that this motherfucker had the nerve to think that, Eliana. The nerve. Chloe has this, uh, I'm sure you would all recognize this meme, I don't know what it's called, that little boy going... He's making a really unimpressed face. Yeah. You know, the little boy meme, yeah, I don't know, it's like a school picture or something.

Absolutely. Davos is starting to show a little self-awareness here, right? Before he's kind of longing, now he's kind of like, I'm being kind of foolish, aren't I? What am I doing? And I, you know what? This is the regret stage. I'm glad that at least he's recognizing that Salador was not

necessarily wrong. Could have gone south with him. Salo is a bro, dude. Yeah, I just... He kills me. You were was a bro, dude. Yeah, I just he kills me. You were so close, Davos. That happens a few more times. The thing is, even this chapter.

I know, it keeps happening. We're getting to the point where Stannis was like, why me? It's Davos now. What's crazy is before this, this wouldn't happen if we didn't have every single person gassing Davos up all the time, right? Everyone is always gassing him up. Right before he came here, he sailed from Eastwatch.

The Black Brothers had been all like, oh, yeah, the Manderlys and Boltons, they have major beef. Like, if Wyman sides with Stannis, that would be super smart. Roose is doing the worst right now with the North. Like, Wyman was owed it. Yeah. Yeah. But at the very least, these are interesting chapters, right? Like, it's these lines from the Night's Watch that, to me, really set the tone for this chapter.

Because, like, while the previous chapter set the stage for davos's skills as like literally an ambassador of the stanisbaran regime i think that this one shows the other side of his skills in politicking and gathering intelligence like this is a regret that i have i didn't write these books but if i were george it would be a regret of mine where i feel like if he were to rewrite clash today as the writer that he is with the sorts of things that he's interested in, he would have written those chapters where Davos and his sons go and deliver the news about the I do think it's really remarkable that we hardly get anything about that, right? Like the lines are very brief and after the fact. And I feel that Davos here, when he's at the Lazy Eel

and really talking to the apple seller and everything, it's similar to that in spirit and where he's just gathering that information. I never would have thought what after Clash would have happened, you know, during that time, if that had actually been seen. I would have loved to see him interact more. And I think this is what this chapter and the last chapter really sell is letting him shine on his own.

Yeah. And a lot of small, like the small folk stuff in this chapter especially is, I george could write 800 chapters about aria and bravos but that would be fun of just davos smuggling adventures oceans 11 davos books you know actually though that is what his life was maybe a little bit like and a lot of aria's chapters in bravos right explore similar ideas of everyday people and their lives and i i just think that you know davos reports to stannis he gives them kind of the truth but how much of it is couched versus what we would have seen of like how people really think which is what this chapter gives us insight on yeah well davos

doesn't have much hope right uh if what he learned at sisterton is true, the Manderlys are about to join up with the Freys and Boltons and Lannisters. He prays he isn't too late, and he gets on in. The Merry Midwife pulls in her sail, and he watches this new large wall that has been built, and it concealed the inner harbor, he realized, which is the better place to land. The city looms on one side, and the Wolf's Den is on the other, with Newcastle rising behind the thick white walls. He realizes Wyman had been building ships, and he looks for them a little, and he's like,

wow, he could have like a score of them within these walls. We'll see them a little later. Davos sees the domed sept of snows surrounded by tall statues of the seven while the Manderlys had brought their gods north they still honored the old as well with a tangled weirwood growing behind the wolf's den the wolf's den serves mostly as prison now though the septons ran most things here

so three different thoughts not necessarily all related regarding this, and one, the Sept of the Snows just has a cool name. I really like the way it sounds. Awesome. Another is, of all the cities we've seen, and this is just top of mind, because Chloe and I are, in fact, on an adventure

through the Free Cities on our Patreon, and it's interesting to see that while the Old Gods, yeah, are less favored here, they are accepted, right? We are in the North, of course. And it kind of reminds me of the Free Cities over in Essos with, you know, White Harbor being a place where there is a lot of religious coexistence, like we're seeing with those Free Cities because of, well, some of the Free Cities, because of, well, some of the free cities, because of their roles as trade centers.

And then another thing is something about the language of both the religions here does remind me a little bit of Sansa's storyline. To an extent, her siblings, but mostly Sansa's just because she was balancing the two faiths of her parents. And at first, she seemed a lot closer to her mother and her mother's gods because they were just close, right? Then her siblings. And then we see that transition to her embracing her heritage with the old gods as her story develops. That's interesting. It makes me think a little bit of Sansa in that. And it reminds me a lot of Catelyn.

I mean, this city is Catelyalan in the north, you know? It's that mixture of the south and the north of the hubbub of the south of going into the city versus living in the country, living in the cold north. And it reminds me so much of her with that focus on the seven. Specifically in comparison to Davos who keeps seeing all of these large

statues, right? We'll see yet another statue here in a few minutes of a merman, right? And that gives you what you've seen, all these seven statues of the big, beautiful statues, which likely remind him, of course, of Dragonstone, of those seven being burnt, and of the other places he's seen them burnt as he goes. And I don't know, these statues that are haunting him

and watching him are starting to change right here it was a mother with her babe then it became these giant statues watching him like we're talking giant cora level of statues right that if he can see them from his boat right now as he gets into the harbor these things are pretty big yeah kind of like the titan of bravos, but in Westeros. Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. Because, you know, mostly chronologically in similar times since feast and dance are, you know, mishmash. Arya is seeing that Titan of Braavos too. Yeah, absolutely. Another, another figure, not quite a statue is the Merman of Manderly, flying from the towers and gates and walls. Eastwatch swore Wyman would stay loyal to Winterfell, but Davos sees no direwolf hanging in the city.

Promisingly, though, he doesn't see lions either. He's yet. I mean, apparently that might not mean anything, so. He's feeling a little more hopeful, and he begins to examine the ships in the bay. There's some drab carracks with a trading galley, storm dancer, the cogs, brave magister, and horn of plenty. Then a bravosy ship marked with purple hulls and sails. And the last one, the lion star, a warship. Ah.

First of all, I bet his heart went out of his butthole. Last one, the Lionstar, a warship. Ah. First of all, I bet his heart went out of his butthole when he saw that fucking thing. And I mean, it's a beautiful ship, though. It's black and gold, adorned with a lion figurehead with a raised paw, and he doesn't feel confident. He reads the lettering on the ship, which, very nice touch that he can read these really well now. He eyes Tom and Baratheon's arms fluttering from the stern

and he's like, wow, I wish I couldn't read this, haha. And these stood out like crazy to me. So to go back to a couple of these cogs, these ships that he sees, these are likely the ships that Tycho Nestoris came with. The Braavosi halted. No, Lord, I, only a simple servant of the Iron Bank of Braavos. Cotted Pike informs me you came to Eastwatch with three ships.

A galeas, a galley, a cog. John IX, A Dance with Dragons. So, a galeas, a galley, and a cog, which he sees a trading galley cogs and a bravo sea ship the purple hole in sales so interesting those might be those just might be taiko nestoris's rides as he got into town i think you're right like it matches up too much and yeah and then like it matches up too much and then also this is just a perfect entrance point right for their ships to stop over at some point before heading north to the wall and maybe they had to stop there because of the storms yeah and i imagine they'll probably hit Eastwatch

and then come in from there is what their thoughts were, but we know that's not 100%. The other thing is they're literally ships passing in the night while. Huh. That's true. Yeah. And when we get to the eel in a little bit, there's a little more to talk about too

that kind of gives you a nod towards it that I'll bring up. Okay. I also think it's interesting that this is chronologically this is before orane fucks cersei over and takes her ships and leaves her right so chronologically speaking that hasn't happened yet so the fact that lion's star was still free right lion's star was free these ships would have probably had to leave from the port in King's Landing. The Freys would have had to go to the capital, join there, jump on the ship, and go north. And I'm guessing this probably would have had to leave

early feast at latest to get to where they are in dance. Early feast, yeah, probably maybe even in storm, right? Because Yeah, after the red wedding maybe yeah that would make sense as they're consolidating and and all that's happening especially because of the bolton's looming presence in this chapter and i mean this book especially this chapter

though it does get brought up soon and it's something that if you blink you'll miss it but it says a lot yeah they were already brought up, right? Because Davos was talking about what the people at Eastwatch were saying about the relations between the Manderlys and the Boltons. So it makes sense. Yes. It is actually interesting when you think about the Boltons and the Manderlys. But maybe we'll talk about that more next chapter. The Freys were in White Harbor, as you said.

And now Davos is like, shit, I'm gonna have to face them. They suck so bad. The merry midwife docks, and the captain seeks Davos. It's Casso Mogat. He's part sister tin, part Ibanez whaler, and asks Davos, how long are you gonna be gone? Casso says that the midwife will leave after three days.

Casso is five foot tall, with dyed mossy green hair and whiskers and yellow boots. I was surprised at this because A. The seed is strong, right? And B. The Ebony's look is said to be dark hair, wiry, you know, thick hair. And scientifically speaking,

it's unlikely you get dark, thick, wiry hair to a mossy green without using some sort of bleach this pisses me off every time because of like for example the tai roshi you have to have a base of blonde hair unless george wants to invent double step double processing your hair like is he going to invent this in westeros because he hasn't said anything about it yet so you can't dye your hair those colors without having it lighter than the colors eliana it's not yeah this isn't magic legitimate question like would they not have was there no ancient form of bleach right to be able to do this you could obviously do like

acids from fruits that would be the best a hair lightener can be made from wood ash too and it turns into lye when you soak it in water and filter it. But I want George to talk about it. Yeah. I mean, he probably is known as, as you were pointing out, pulling shit out of his ass.

Oh wait, that is nevermind. Pulling stuff out of his ass. No, that one's too literal. Too literal. Yeah. And it does suck as someone who like has considered it but like was never willing to bleach their hair and i mean casa's got a lot of hair he's described as her suit i'm not sure if i'm pronouncing that right but it's

my new word of the day means hairy that hairy. That's all it means. And regarding the hair dyeing, though, it is interesting. And I'm just like on that and on that wavelength, because again, we're going through the Free Cities. And we were hypothesizing during our cohort episodes, if like any of the Brave Companions were cohortic, we were like, oh, maybe these people are Tairochi because they dye their hair. But we're seeing that might not really be an indicator because we're seeing that those trends from Tairoshi are getting picked up by other places. And it's really showing that quick and prominent cultural exchange between these trade cities, especially, right? Kaso's adopting this Tairoshi trend and fashion, and we see Wyla Manderly does it too.

Yeah, come on, Dad. All the other girls are getting hair dye from the port come on come on gramps come on i feel like wyman would be supportive of it he'd be like that seems cool he's the cool grandpa yeah yeah no well and that's the thing is he's just like yeah sure we're fitting him a trade that he's little uh i don't know it's just killing me because that george just doesn't realize that he's putting unrealistic standards on hairdressers all over the world because like now girls are gonna come in and be like make me tie roshi and they're gonna be like it's gonna take 12 hours to do that and fry all your hair off i mean what else is people doing right they got 12 hours to burn why not yeah this is the time here in these here desperate times to do it yeah

i was just saying they don't got the internet they don't they don't have shit ariane didn't even like to read the books she did have okay what did she do she just masturbated the whole time same oh we're not talking about the well davos tells him that if things go well he might be back by tomorrow but if things don't go well well casso don't wait up customs men are boarding the ship as davos leaves but he's not their concern right he's as normal as it comes he's middling height with a shrewd weather-worn peasant's face grizzzzled beard, brown salted hair. He made sure to wear his super plain garb, right? He wore brown breeches, blue tunic, woolen mantle, wooden clasp, and salt-stained leather gloves, of course, to hide his fingers.

Yeah, so this plays a little bit into what we were talking about last episode about glamours and disguises in Davos' storyline. And Davos is playing on that again here, right? He's doing the same thing by hiding his identifiable features to become another person. And I think that there's a lot about Davos' chapters. You were talking about Arya and Braavos that go really well with her chapters in both Feast and Dance, right? Same as how Arya is learning to pick up information from all the people on the streets and and while selling clams davos picks up a lot of information through the gossip of the sailors in this chapter and disguising

himself as a sailor and though some nobles as we'll see later would argue that he's actually disguising himself as a lord in a king's hand davos is like fuck you but only in his head which is relatable uh and like aria davos is able to hide in plain sight and maneuver to some extent between those different social classes, all for different goals and ends, and in that way, Davos is kind of a bit like Varys, right? He's acting as his

own master of whispers here, and of course, all the disguising parts. And I'm thinking, you know, perhaps again, Davos is just a little bit like a little bit more like Melisandre than he would like to admit. Yeah, he totally has his own little repertoire of smoke and mirrors to play with. Well, and that's the thing. It's very, like, hashtag Catholic guilt.

Like, he doesn't want to embrace that side of him, you know? I mean, literally, because a lot of it- Or admit it. Yeah, a lot of that difference for them is that religion. Davos is like, nah, I'm different now. Yeah. Davos walks along the wharf, going through the fish market and watching the brave magister load casks of mead. Beyond that, sailors are throwing dice

and fishwives cry the day's catch. He hears a boy beating time on a drum for a ring of river runners and sees spearmen guarding seal gate, but rather poorly, busy flirting with a sex worker on the dock. The language here's fun. The gate was open,

the porticolus raised, uh, a euphemism for not only sex and flirting but also that this guy sucks at his job oh yes true i wonder if that's going to be important later maybe not maybe it's just about sex i know it's a a fish or a fish i know it's a show moment but how aria enters winterfell on the show, that one moment, very interesting. Like how she dupes the guards. It reminds me kind of of that if maybe there will be another moment with guards here. Yeah, yeah.

Someday. Not now. Heavens. Hopefully someday. Who knows if we're ever going to come back here is what I'm saying. I hope so. White Harbor's interesting. I hope so too.

I really love all the statues and we do get another statue here right yes we do it's a stone merman fountain spitting water at the center it's green bearded and white with lichen with a broken trident it's old fish foot i just i love that name it tickles me oh you know old fish foot ah good old fish foot gone too soon oh my god yes the yard is busy with people like some of them are actually just washing their clothes in that fountain and drying it on old fish foot there's also like a hedge wizard here and an herb woman and a bad juggler and again talking about trade cities and other povs this does remind me a little bit to denarius and quay watching the fire mage and karth not not very heavily but i'm just like oh yes people in places yeah hedge wizard herb woman i didn't think about hedge wizards and the herb women. And the juggling. Yeah, that's really neat. Entertainment.

Yeah, it's definitely adopting all of the excitement of the free cities here. This is much different than King's Landing, which is still busy and has children and women and men running around and definitely sailors and stuff. But it doesn't have this freeing feeling. It doesn't feel as open and carefree. Yeah, and we're going to lose that sense in a little bit, right? Because yes, there are people selling food and inside there are many people huddled. They're all displaced from the war and are afraid of the Boltons. We have a line of, They came here for refuge to a city untouched by the fighting, and here I turn up to drag them back into the war.

So Davos is feeling guilty about this, and also about the apple that he's eating as he sees their hunger. I found this really interesting on reread. This is the mint, I'm guessing, right? We suppose that Rob's coin would have come from because Wyman had promised it back then, saying King Rob needs his own coinage as well, and White Harbor is the place to mint it. And then Davos, of course, here learns about the mint mint and what he sees is a difference right he's told them as have no other place to live small folk from up the white knife most of them hornwoods people too that bastard of Bolton running loose they all want to be inside the walls I don't know

what his lordship means to do with all of them most turned up and no more in the rags on their backs White Harbor has become a sanctuary city uh this is a really interesting clue for us too that he's saying hornwood's people which are not too far from here obviously it's not like it's a long run down the way it's not like they're trying to get to winterfell from where the hornwood lands are but hornwood's people and people up the white knife are all coming down here because the bastard of Bolton is a threat and what's crazier is Wyman Manderley is housing all of these people so his actions are a big clue to us that his allegiance to the current regime in the north is probably not true right like if they have their doors open for people from other lands that the Boltons control, they probably

don't support the Boltons' actions deep down, and they probably are looking for another king. I was gonna just say that's a great point about that subtext, because you called out the Hornwoods, and as we know, they suffered Lady Danella suffered under the Boltons, and Wyman once tried to wed her. Yeah.

Absolutely. So letting these people into the city and protecting them but what are you protecting them from i thought you liked your boss whining wait a second there's a parallel what are you protecting them from davos i thought you liked your boss uh there's your parallel it's anyways i'm not gonna say it. So Davos is also feeling really guilty about eating and about the war. And it kind of feels connected here. It's not just here because later on someone dies for him in the Wolf Den dungeons, right? For him to undertake another blood money mission. And this feels prominent right here. This mission feels like it's just full of sadness and guilt it does it really does almost like davos is guilted into some of this and you know yeah in terms of guilt right that's something that actually is quite a running theme in davos's story now that i think about it and and part of his a few part of his emotions and in regards to that there's something that reminds me of another

chapter where davos feels a bit of guilt uh where he's at storm's end again with that shadow baby and it's interesting because that's right as like the war is kind of beginning it started a little but like stannis wasn't fully like a player in it yet and now here we're in the thick of it, of the war, and Davos has even lost loved ones to the war. And just as Davos returned to Storm's End, it's a place that has a lot of significance from his previous life and is a turning point. He was familiar with it. And he's

coming back to another place that he's really familiar with, White Harbor. He's been here many times and he's also coming back with this place changed and himself, just like at Storm's End. And there's a line with the Apple seller wondering what Manderly means to do with all these displaced people. And I do kind of wonder that. What he wants to

happen. And many of these people also likely just want the fighting to stop and to return home. Some, of course, hope that maybe they'll just take up work here and start a new life because their previous ones were uprooted. They don't know if they'll be able to rebuild the places that they came from. because their previous ones were uprooted they don't know if they'll be able to rebuild the places that they came from yeah absolutely and again like new castle and the idea of just like

this new hope of landing in white harbor white harbor is the new money of the north right like it's the new kid at the table yes like you like you said, we've been here for a thousand years. We've been here for a long-ass time. But, I know. But, like, at the same time, they are the newest of the system, and they provide, at the same exact time as that, like, the most economic innovation. And the fact that they're open arms to these people and they accept people, I think that says a lot about White Harbor. I think White Harbor is a really cool place i'm kind of yeah white harbor stands now sorry salad or one stand per episode would like white harbor too he probably does

he's probably like super jazzed to go to white harbor and then you know shit happened he probably has like three wives in white harbor, Ariana. And like eight kids. Probably. He's like, well, those kids aren't getting a visit from Dad's day. On a different note. Well, sad because that's not the only sad thing about kids going on here. Right? Obviously, this is not, this city might seem hopeful. And yes, we were all just like, we stand White Harbor.

But there are still some sad bits, right? There's kids, people begging on the street for food. Some of these small folk. Girls take up sex work. Potentially they get trafficked. And boys who are five feet tall try to find work in the Lord's barracks, right? They try to sign up with the army. So total tip off of what manderley's doing

here yeah yes white harbor of course has its bad parts um you know they're they're trying to provide as you said like a be a sanctuary city not just a white harbor but a safe harbor for these people but they can't promise that right this is a time of huge upheaval in west rose and we use the word trafficked here intentionally it's not what's used in the text in regards to what the girls are doing, because I do want to draw that distinction they have agency in it women like chitaia or the black pearl especially right in bravos right because it's there's a lot of freedom afforded to people there and that's that's a huge part of what they're built on and i don't want to take away any of the agency of the women and girls that do take up sex work in this passage in real life in the rest of the book but the language here does say girls and boys not women and girls that do take up sex work in this passage, in real life, in the rest of the book.

But the language here does say girls and boys, not women and men. And I know that George is a little flimsy with that, right, as we see with some of the Corbray stuff in the veil. But here it does feel pointed because we're talking about them boys being a certain height. So it does feel like it's referring to children. And the toll and violence that this war is taking on the bodies of those children, because again, it's one thing to choose sex work in the conditions of any of your work for yourself. It's another to be a child left vulnerable by losing your home to the war, not having a source of food, losing the loved ones who would protect you because they died or in the displacement, they got lost're lost yourself too and it's all taken from you and in desperation you turn to selling your body and for girls especially who are young who might not have an education or any

other form of livelihood or that leaves them especially very vulnerable to kidnapping to slavery and other forms of sexual and gender-based violence without any of those systems of support. And this is true for the boys as well, right? And what's happening to their bodies, because if they're large enough, right, they aren't escaping the war. They're reentering the war. They're being put into danger again with all they have to offer, which is their bodies for fighting. And it pairs well with some of the ways that Feast and Dance is now exploring the aftermath of the War of the Five Kings. And maybe I'll feel different about this when we get to Brienne's chapters and I refresh my memory.

But it kind of makes me wish there were a stronger line written between Davos's chapters and Brienne's. Because there are things that go well between them and that connection, that causal connection of the systemic impact of this war on westeros yeah really well said you don't have anyone waiting for you or you don't have anyone who's looking for you that's that's who's always focused on right like that's where the predatory behavior is always aimed first because it's the easiest catch and for a lot of these children that made this big trip down the white knife maybe their parents have found some work or they're trying to find work or they're dead yeah right from traversing south i mean it is winter stannis not so long from this chapter

will be under a bajillion feet of snow lake effect gonna get you someday at the bite yep absolutely chloe and her lake effects listen we what we need to do is we need to work on low income housing in white harbor for these kids okay eliana and i want to meet with you every thursday until we make it happen i think it could happen you know they could do it but under queen sansa isn't it yeah sansa stark is gonna bring section eight housing to white i don't just kidding i mean maybe maybe that maybe not but like the things that you were saying about the mint right it feels like white harbor has a lot there that that can be developed and that needs to be that that needs to be but that can definitely come back as we

readdress what it means to rebuild after a war and actually get stability definitely feels purposeful well Davos asks about Lord Manderly's plans and he gets very little back other than gossip about

well Lord Manderly's granddaughter and daughter that they're set to wed Freys. Davos is eating his apple, and he feels like it's kind of a gross apple, right? But he thinks it's worth the money because he got good information out of the cellar. Yeah, and the cellar's like, give me back that apple if you're not going to eat it. The seeds are also still good. And it reminds me a little bit about what is the value of like an onion if is it still good is it still bad and you know how chloe and i feel about the onion because we are not wasting food here well and more than that it's also very much referenced how much money it cost

him i think it was a half penny right or uh something that cost him to buy that apple so he literally considers what it was worth to him and that the money was worth it to him and that the person that he gave it to it was better to just give that guy the money and get a little tiny piece of info out of him absolutely even if the apple sucked yeah davos has a lot of empathy i think for what's going on here right yes triggers some thought in him as davos walks across the yard he remembers places in the city like a brew house with beer so good it sold for as much as arbor gold but he's seeking wine landing at the lazy eel the food was bad there and so was the company but there were no guards I just love that line.

I think it's a beautiful line. There's a lot of beautiful lines in this chapter. And I don't know if it's just me overthinking it, if the eel stuff and the name in this place is meant to be a nod for, like, rereaders about the lamprey pie and like free pie stuff because like at the same time lampreys aren't technically eels but they kind of look like eels and people sometimes call them eels so like they're basically fucking eels yeah i don't know it might just be like a fun name that George thought up. Because it is a fun name.

I don't know. Or it's about dicks. It's probably about that lazy eel. Actually, it probably literally is now that I say it aloud. Now that you say it, I didn't really think about it. I wasn't really thinking about penis right now. But thanks, Eliana. That's what it is.

I am now convinced. It's probably actually canon. Well, besides four sex workers, a proprietor, Davos has the lazy eel all to himself, Eliana. Amazing. As he drinks and waits, he stares at the hearth, thinking of Melisandre.

The red woman could see the future in the fire, but all that Davos Seaworth ever saw were the shadows of the past. The burning ships, the fiery chain, the green shadows flashing were the shadows of the past. The burning ships, the fiery chain, the green shadows flashing across the belly of the clouds, the red keep brooding over all. Davos was a simple man, raised up by chance and war and Stannis. He did not understand why the

gods would take four lads as young and strong as his sons, yet spare their weary father. Some nights he thought he had been left to rescue Edric Storm, but by now King Robert's bastard boy was safe in the Stepstones, yet Davos still remained. Do the gods have some other task for me? He wondered. If so, White Harbor may be some part of it. This is interesting because it does harken back to a lot of Tyrion, especially actually in dance. He has a lot of that, like, why am I still alive, bro? Mentality going on and in clash of, you know, well, I got this far. Something must be okay with me. The gods must give a shit about me if they exist. And not just that, but it also is kind of one of the passages that really brings home for

me that Davos is probably going to have to allege himself to the North in some sort of way. I know some people might think Davos in the North in the show was an invention, but I think he has to join a good real cause. One that's not fake light, one that's

not false light. Davos wants a boss that respects him, and he wants to join a business that has a vision for its future it seems yeah and you know in regards to being like how did i end up here there must be some sort of plan i mean skagos is pretty fucking out of the way like how can you not think like there must be a reason for me being here right i know a way that he got to skagos it's because he got in the fucking boat and then he went. You know what you could do instead?

You could take that same boat and you could turn it around and you could go south. And at least he's thinking about that right now. He's like, what am I doing here? This is one of the first times that a lot of what he's seeing at White Harbor, he's like, what the fuck am I doing with my life? As he thinks of other people's ventures. seeing it white harbor he's like what the fuck am i doing with my life as he thinks of like other people's ventures but something in this passage and the other passages in this chapter remind me of something that you were saying too of devon potentially being used against davos really brings that kind of to the forefront and that's something that other povs in this story are exploring yeah that's a great thought it's your thought it's your thought

well yeah but you're repurposing it it's better when you say it I don't think so what's better for Davos though is the eel it's filling up as the sun sets he's offered food that seems unappetizing and I'm thinking he's just like I want to go back to Sisterton bring me back there

with the good stew and he's sitting in the shadows to listen to the gossip, which again, are going to be very important. A lot of it confirms what he heard from Godric or people at the Belly of the Whale. Tywin's dead. Lysa's dead. Balon's dead. There's power grabs in the Vale between

Littlefinger and Bronze Yon Groys, fighting for the Seastone Chair. I'm sorry, I meant Salt Throne. The Salt Throne. Sandor Clegane's turned outlaw in plundering. And, allegedly. And of course, the

three daughters of Essos are at war, and there's a slave revolt in the East. Couple thoughts here. Does any of this sound important? No, I'm just kidding sandor clegane turned outlaw and plundering is not true we know that is not sandor it's fake news i would just like to say i would like to stand up for my mans and say that is fake news

sandor baby i love you you're doing amazing only done several things wrong in your entire life uh the three daughters at war you think that means anything i don't know maybe people should listen to our free cities episodes to find out and well what about the things that are new here though also are are interesting to me because he the stuff that he learns he knew right and we're talking the power grabs in the veil and tywin liza balin He kind of knew all that. The Robert Glover stuff, that's new. He's heard that Glover's

in the city trying to raise men and kind of failing, and allegedly Manderly doesn't give a fuck about whatever Glover's doing. White Harper is allegedly tired of fighting. Emphasis again on allegedly. There's a lot of allegedly's here. This is gossip, okay? Riswells and dustins

have burned some ironborn longships and ramsey is riding south with hother umber to attack moat calen with a host of 300 spearmen 100 archers some horwood some hornwoods and kerwins too and i just have to wonder if ramsey does ramsey have 20 good men? The men talk about Manderly being bound to send Roose Bolton, now the Warden. Some people say Roose has no honor. What? And they doubt Manderly's ability to take action between his weight and potential illness and the sleeping and the crying. I take offense at this line. I'm feeling very attacked that people would doubt someone's ability to take action between their weight and potential illness and all the sleeping and crying, first of all.

It's all very rude. It's not nice, and I feel attacked. But they do say, after all, the lions got his son. No one spoke of King Stannis. No one even seemed to know his grace had come north to help defend the wall. Wildlings and wights and giants had been all the talk at Eastwatch, but here, no one seemed to be giving them so much as a thought. So in this quote, there's a lot that's going on, including, of course, how the south has no idea

about the real threat, blah, blah, blah. We all know that, right? And I'm also just, I'm telling y'all, like, Stannis has bad PR. If people don't even know what their king has done, that's good to protect them. Like, if they never even think about him at all, like, how are they going to know that they should throw their support behind him? And obviously the Manderlys are more up to date on things, but this is pretty shitty. But studies do show that in presidential elections or elections in general, right? One of the most important parts of electability is literally just the popularity of the candidate. And if people can recognize their name easily.

I mean, hopefully this changes, but it makes me think of that. As he's saying this, this is all the talk at east watch is the things happening in the north but no one talks about the north in the harbor no one says a single thing about the battle at the wall or the free folk davos is like no one's even talking about them like not even on a stannis level like even the wall nothing i mean no one gives a shit about the wall it seems they're just like that's all the way over there and it's so far no one cares they're like that's just where we send people and we don't like them i'm like oh okay that's probably that's literally how people think of the wall it is but you shouldn't say it shit that's where we send the people we don't like that's how they think of it i know i know

davos decides to join in all this banter trying to pry some more info out saying i thought the phrase killed manderley's son they're like yes that was wendell sir willis is still captive davos empathizes he thinks of his own sons dead and alive and what it would mean for one of them to be a hostage oh there you go with that hostage thought again that's the thing that made me think of your stephan specifically i'm like one of them to be a hostage oh there you go with that hostage thought again that's the thing that made me think of your thing specifically i'm like one of your sons is a hostage he know he kind of knows it like in this in this passage he's like interesting and then he's like push down the bad thoughts stephan and stannis were thousands of leagues from the fighting and safe from harm. But Devon was at Castle Black, the squire to the king. The king whose cause may rise or fall with White Harbor.

You know, we were discussing the other day, like, imagine having to go home from all of this. After Stannis is the way he is. And you have to tell your son why he's named after Stannis Baratheon. It's straight up Harry Potter shit, you know? Like, listen, Stannis Baratheon, you were named after one of the lamest endings for a king. Maybe he can change his name. People change their names all the fucking time.

He could be Stan Lee. Well, that's the thing. He's like only two, right? I mean, if this was the Free Folk, they wouldn't have even given him a name yet. That was your problem, Davos. You shouldn't have named them for two years. And maybe that was smart, honestly. That was the play.

It would stop a lot of apples, you know? And like whatever other names people are naming their children. I don't know. I like Luna. That's one of Chrissy Teigen's. But I'm just partial because of Sailor Moon. They switch the subject now to dragons. And they gossip about Viserys's death at Drogo's hand.

But no one actually knows like Viserys's name or Drogo's name or any of the details. Because again, it's gossip. And then one man jokes that if a king wanted him dead he'd just pretend to be a corpse and uses that to imply that like viserys might still be alive and then they joke that oh well we never saw joffrey or robert's corpses so they must be alive too and i'm like what george you're you're saying something here aren't you then it turns to talk about vagar's son who's also supposedly killed okay there's a point here. Kind of. It's complicated and nuanced. Supposedly killed, and the two princesses

whose names are all a little foggy on all, so they're like, there's Rhaegar's daughter and there's Rhaegar's sister. And then they confuse them with Baelor the Blessed Sisters, and they're like, oh yeah, her name is Dana. Dana, right? And eventually we'll get to Rhaena and Alayna, but a little bit touched on with the Maiden Vault, but

they discuss that wedding Dana whose name they got wrong right had they had she wed a king that would have made her queen then and they're like it couldn't have been Dana who's locked up she was a princess they're like did they wed or not anyways they're drunk they continue to guess at Daenerys

name until Davos decides to rejoin the conversation he's like it's it's Daenerys because now he has to know politics um davos is like listen i didn't watch bridgerton but i feel like i'd be into it you guys let's keep talking about it yeah pretty much and you know lucky for him the next book i'm sorry the next chapter but also the next book of this is actually a denarius chapter yeah the whole next book pretty much is a danny chapter i mean kind of this is actually a denarius chapter yeah the whole next book pretty much is a danny chapter i mean kind of this book is a danny book it is it's a very danny heavy book and the first time i read it i didn't know what to think of it and the second time i read it was like

okay i like it now and it's really clever having the danny chapter right after this it ties it together well brings in all of this stuff we're reading about the free cities and all this different information about trade and economics in the harbor. It's very clever. There's a lot going on here with this little talk he's listening in on. I joke that it's like, you know, Bridgerton. We've got some soap operas going on. We've got a novella or two going on here.

Several brain moments here. My brain's going through different phases. So the smallest brain of my brain exploding. Targ foreshadowing, right? We have Tyrion IV, Aegon reveal, Aegon's plot, dead people running around from the rebellion, right? So that exact line about oh you know people being dead and if the king wanted them to be dead well then they'd be dead uh you have lemon cloak running

around you have john connington interesting right interesting to have that and even recently we had in sam for a feast for crows which is chronologically actually a little after this, Amon and him talk and Amon says, no one ever looked for a girl. It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. That is interesting. So I feel like those themes are tied really well together with George introducing the concept and the kind of tease of like, oh, what if we had fake people show up that were supposed to be dead, but they weren't? And that's a great call out because they keep arguing like, is she a princess or a queen in this? Yeah, that's interesting. I didn't think about that in context.

It was a prince, not a princess. Well, get ready. The big brain doesn't stop there, Eliana. It's growing. I'm going to give you the next version. Here it goes. It's growing. I'm just seeing like lightning eman version. Here it goes. It's growing! I'm just

seeing, like, lightning emanating off my big huge brain. So, slightly larger brain. This is foreshadowing also of what Davos literally experiences, right? Like, what King's Landing hears of him. If some king wants me dead, I'll pretend to be dead. Well,

no, but Queen Cersei wants you dead, and so Wyman Manderley's gonna hook it up you're dead kid you're dead davos and that's actually really well structured that all this is going on yeah and it's not just that right like there's the next thing that i didn't really put together until reading this is this is kind of stannis foreshadowing in the pink letter later right as far as king kings pretending to be dead. In the letter that Ramsay sends, the bastard letter, your false king is dead.

He and all his hosts were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore. That compared to, and this is, I guess, a very small thing in Theon, The Winds of Winter 1. If you haven't read that chapter, I'm sorry. Plug your ears for 12 seconds. It may be that we shall lose this battle, the king said grimly.

In Braavos, you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords, nonetheless. Comparing these two, it totally makes me think about Stannis alive. Right? I don't think the pink letter is real. I think there has to be some sort of, I mean, it's real.

It's physically in Winterfell, or I mean, in the wall, physically at the wall. But I just don't think that it's legitimate. Obviously, maybe Mance is dead. That wouldn't surprise me. Sorry, Mance kind of had a short leash there. But I don't know. I changed my mind about the pink letter i used to have one opinion on it and then i started changing my mind after i did an episode on it for maester monthly i've changed my opinion a few times

i mean i don't think the meta wise like it doesn't really matter who wrote it at this point i just think that its contents aren't true uh and he's gonna die anyways eventually so it's like to me i'm not too worried about it yeah just get a spinner spin it something that's probably how i feel that day yeah just pick one yeah exactly it could change any day i'm not married to it the last thing that this reminded me of foreshadowing wise is it could be groundwork for rickon's fate We're going to divulge into a lot of theorizing on what's to come in Skagos for Davos and Rickon in the future, and I have some major expansive thoughts

that I will go into as we go on, but I am on the record stating he's going to come back without Rickon because here he is seeing once more all these kids suffer through wartime and he knows that this is a blood money adventure that he's going to get Rick on and if he brings Rick on back he's not going to survive well in this game the lords are playing it's it's the inverse of Edric Storm right it's leaving him to save him instead of sending him away to save him yeah leave and i think this works too you know if he comes back and says never found him he's

probably dead absolutely we've seen a couple of people disappear like that and i mean it's interesting he's leaving him with the literal cannibals who are probably going to be pretty nice versus allowing the nobles to cannibalize them towards their own ends yeah so i'm rethinking this now that i've listened to what you've said but i'm gonna share what i thought anyway um trying to tie it into it and this entire exchange of like about who's dead who's not and what you were saying what if davos does end up being like wait what if following stannis to the ends of the earth was actually a bad idea because he's starting to wonder that now and some of what you were

saying right davos does end up kind of getting a bit of an outright cersei is one one royal who wants davos dead and it makes me think coming back to what you're talking about with phagon and and his crew and john connington that line of if one hand can die why not a second and i'm like or even a third right john connington faked his own death to join agon's cause and davos kind of again hasn't out here right now and is a theoretically allegedly dead hand of another king and besides cersei what if he also does it to kind of ghost Stannis, right? Because besides a corpse easily being able to be faked to be him if you cut off some of the fingers, right? There's a lot of what we're seeing here of Davos' identity being slippery in these last two books that could be more foreshadowing or set up for that. Of course, Melisandre's lines about the finger bones

and the manorly swearing that his head is atop the walls and the frays agreeing. And Davos pretending to be someone else and easily able to get lost in a crowd if he just wears a glove, like how John Connington was able to pretend to be someone else by dying and covering up his very identifiable hair i mean all he has to do is hide his hand for a while and he can become no one i mean he's obviously doing it now for cersei but

yeah right obviously for cersei and it brings to mind tyrian the dwarfs had being sent for tyrian that obviously isn't tyrian and Tyrion knowing people are dying for him to be thrown off the scent obviously Tyrion can metabolize that and deal with that and when I say metabolize I really mean compartmentalize it and put it back under his skin

so he can just be cynical his whole life but Davos I don't think Davos can take a lot more is my whole thought process here after seeing this like this is a lot it's a lot for anyone and in the winds of winter i think davos might get broken from all of it uh it might he might be the type person that's compelled to do something about being broken right but he he might say enough's enough at some point here because i don't know i couldn't live with that much guilt of people

just dying like crazy for me. Yeah, and that's a lot of what we're seeing in these chapters, right? Davos dealing with the guilt of what he's done, and he's like, is this worse than when I was a smuggler? Are some of these things worse? Yeah. Yeah.

That started in Clash. You know, intelligent people are rarely happy that's what I have to tell you Davos sorry he could have been happy there was a smart move to make where he could have been happy and well again

someone does know what happened to Daenerys in Pentos one of the sailors heard Well, again, someone does know what happened to Daenerys. In Pentos, one of the sailors heard from a trader on the Slow-Eyed Maid, who recalls a story of a young girl that was seeking passage for herself and her three dragons. But that guy decided that spices were actually way more profitable and less of a fire risk than having three dragons on your ship. But Davos doesn't join in their laughter because he actually knows what happened to the slow-eyed maid from last chapter, because Godric is of course enjoying that ship's

spices now. Then he has this line where he thinks, the gods were cruel to let a man sail across half the world, then send him chasing a false light when he was almost home. Hmm. What does it mean?

What does false light mean, Eliana? What does it mean? I'm worried it means that, like, Davos never gets to return home, too. I know, I hate that, and I know that there's a lot of, uh, you know, like, Odyssey vibes about it people have mentioned mentioned as we've talked

about too I don't know especially if he becomes no one now that I think about it because that was what Odysseus did he said his name was nobody until he was like fuck it I'm Odysseus bitches I'm like no

I just don't think it can go the same I think of all people Davos is safe and I think he will go home to his two kids and wife Devon's gonna die though, rip sorry kid you're dead something in this

right here in this conversation the man who talks about the dragons is a bravosi orman in a somber woolen jacket. So this is interesting because in Arya's chapters, we learn Braavosi commoners and workers wear bright colors, right? The normal outfits are flamboyant, bright, and this feels like another tip off to the three ships being part of Tycho Nestoris' crew. They're wearing more muted colors, which are supposed to be reserved for upper class in bravos and being a banker is probably like of the iron bank is probably one of the best fucking jobs you can have

in bravos yeah oh yeah absolutely another interesting thing that happens in this exchange is davos admires the slow-eyed maids captain for taking a risk to get those riches and thinks that as a young man he had also dreamed of doing the same and just kept putting off all of these dreams that he has he has another one of those dreams for himself one day when the war is done

King Stannis sits the Iron Throne and has no more need of onion knights I'll take Devon with me Steph and Stanny too if if they're old enough. We'll see these dragons and all the wonders of the world. Hmm. That feels significant.

Well, you sure ain't gonna be taking Devon with you. Yeah, I don't know. I'm worried about Davos. Dream big! Dream big. You start to get really worried about this kid, you know? I'm worried about- There's a lot of kids I worry about. Davos. Dream big! You start to get really worried about this kid, you know? I'm worried about... There's a lot of kids I worry about.

Davos does too. That's why he was like, I gotta take care of this Edric boy. As he leaves, Davos thinks it's cold. Then he remembers how cold it was at Eastwatch. He considers trying to get more info out of these guys, but he's like, nah, that's enough. I came too late. Oh,'s enough. I came too late.

Oh, haha. I just came too late. Once again, he reaches for his finger bones and he weighs his options. Go to Newcastle, go home, go to Stannis. He recalls the Eastwatch feast from Selyse the night before they set sail. Axel told them a story of a Targaryen prince. Who kept an ape as a pet. And dressed it up. Then he makes a jab about Davos.

Playing dress up. Davos is offended. But he says nothing. Thinking he's better than Axel. I get off by burning people. Florent. That's literally Axel Florent. So it's interesting that Davos remembers this memory as he's blending in

amongst the sailors and a lot of other things that are going on this chapter as he again revisits a place he's been before and there are we've been trying to parse this out throughout davos's storyline what is motivating davos to stay with stanis like he's not that cool he's gonna burn his daughter but i I do love that this chapter, again, is one of the first times that makes the question of why is Davos supporting Stannis explicit? Because he himself is now wondering,

I don't know! What the fuck I'm doing here? And he's actually of clear mind, unlike the time that he was kind of delirious on a rock after the Blackwater. And he's like, I have another life i could be living and he's really taking that question seriously and starts to be like am i being foolish and i think that there's a lot there's a lot of reasons that davos is here he's really conflicted i think

and of course part of it as he said and out, is for his children's future and their security, perhaps, which apparently that might not be going as well as he had planned. Part of it is, of course, for Stannis. I think there's a part of Davos that really loves Stannis, and part of it is, of course, for the good that Davos believes that he himself can

do for the realm, and that perhaps he does believe Stannis is good for the realm and is part of that and then i think that as we see here with davos remembering this exchange with axel maybe there is a small part of davos that he's not willing to really admit to himself yet but a part of him that wants to prove something to these uptight nobles obviously the children's future that's that's the loudest thing and he thinks you know if he loses if he takes one false step he's dead right he loses it all he loses everything

for his family everything he's built up it's like political jenga it is he's doing okay he's doing pretty well he's made some risky pulls but he's trying to save up that 401k though man for his family you know he really is and it's like for retiring in 10 years you're not gonna make enough interest davos that's for sure not these fucking interest levels just as tycos well by process of elimination the story about the targaryen ape uh a lot of people have speculated about it and this is it this is the one reference it could have been a pre Westeros Valyria thing

going on it could have been before but I don't know the fact that Axel knows it makes me think it would have had to be like in his lifetime I did see a lot of really good references that it could be Aegon Baelin and Alyssa's son, or possibly Arian's son, Maegor, due to the timeline and that Axel would have known him.

So, interesting. I did think that, you know, not too long ago, Tyrion was dressed up, or Tyrion is being dressed up as a demon monkey by Illyrio, right? Like, that's literally what he calls himself, because he's wearing that, like, jester's outfit. And I think that's kind of an interesting reference here when we consider Tyrion's capabilities and limitations as hand being compared to Davos and being dressed up or dressed down for the position they're going to right now. That's a great point. Yeah. And Tyrion is also someone else who's slipping between classes right now.os stares up at old fish foot bless that statue and i don't know i'm really obsessed with the statue results to go through with

what he came here to do he's inspired to prove that he is no ape in velvet but a king's hand and he heads up castle stair which is a street going towards newcastle the seat of house manderley and then at the top he looks down at the harbors to survey the war preparations, which are 23 war galleys in the inner harbor, realizing that Wyman's been busy. And so we didn't quote the whole thing here, but I love the language in this ending with Davos finding his resolve. I'm going to read the one line. When he reached the top, he turned to look behind him.

And I just feel like that line is so loaded in the context of this chapter, because now we're seeing that Davos isn't ashamed of being a smuggler. Now that he hasn't been with these shitty-ass nobles for a bit, he's like, they suck, I'm awesome. And he's embracing the skills that being a smuggler has given him. It's given him survival to get to Sisterton. He's smart and knows how to deal with people, because many times his life was at risk in shady situations where he had to do that.

He knows where to go to get information. And then that, again, he's at the top of the hill, right? That's literally what the line means, if you look at it in a literal sense and he looks back at the city and he's reviewing all these old haunts from his sailing days and revisiting those memories of roro and sala but also beyond that another meaning of this line is he's at the top of the ladder he's the king's hand he's reached the top and he's looking back on his roots and his family and where he's come from and as it all comes together he looks at the sea

in the harbor where it's brought him and using his knowledge from his sailing and smuggling days to pinpoint Manderly's ships. It's interesting. He's reached the top and it makes me think that he hasn't figured it out

or admitted it yet, but he's done kind of the most good he can do for stannis you know i think that's another thing like interesting he's reached the top but there's no ceiling davos doesn't keep going from being a king's hand right like uh the only way he can rise now is inward and doing what he thinks is the right thing. That's a great point. And we see that with a lot of other nobles, right? They rise to become king's hand, but they were so morally bankrupt. Like Axel aspired to it.

Otto or Axel. Yeah, Otto Hightower, Axel Florent. What are they trying to get? You can't go any higher. You're never going to be a king, Axel Florent. Like, what are they trying to get? Like, you can't go any higher. You're never going to be a king, Axel Florent. Not with that nose hair. But they hope that they can be the hand who has the true power and use the king as a puppet and... Winkle all the money out of him.

Yeah, Axel might try to step into that and be like, Davos is dead, can't you tell? And I wouldn't be surprised. I'm your hand now. Wow, that would be a betrayal. That would be a betrayal. And not only for Stannis against Davos, but to himself. And, I mean, Davos is going to have thoughts about that. He obviously doesn't like Axel.

He's kind of stabbed Axel in the back, but he really should have. Because Axel was all like, do this thing for me. Tell him I should be hand. And Davos is like, I don't think so. so i don't like that i don't like you anything yeah if anything he feels worse for allocating that's part of why axel is probably making those jabs right and insults at davos here not only is he does he think davos is unworthy he's very jealous and like i love that for davos back to these fleet of 23 ships wow wyman is really out here with his no prisoners attitude right he's like take no motherfuckers alive this is

dead or alive mentality uh it reminds me of aria 2 in a feast for crows when she of course tells us the tale she heard from old man of men in a long winter who'd lived beyond their years going out into the world to go hunting absolutely their daughters would weep and their sons turn their faces to the fire but no one would stop them or ask what game they meant to hunt with the snow so deep and the cold wind howling and then of course aria wonders what the old bravos he told their sons and daughters before they set off for the house of black and white so obviously Arya is very connected to the north being a northern girl uh and also right now yes she's northern but Jane is her while she's in

Braavos that's okay the north men are gonna fight for her anyway it's an idea. But here... It's not okay for Jane. It's not okay for Jane, but God bless her soul. Here, Arya speaks to the very brevity of kind of how we meet Wyman later, right? The lengths Wyman's willing to go to to give freedom to his family and loved ones, the ones he has left. kind of the very brevity of who Davos is in what he believes in, what he fights for, against oppression, and for truth, and light, and onions for all, especially the little guys. Connecting the bravosy men who come to end their lives in the House of Black and White, a place that's very doors are made of weirwood, if you remember, of the obsidian and weirwood,

here to the mint, which has an oak and iron door, as you so graciously highlighted earlier shout out to dunk uh it's interesting they're two different ideas and concepts but places that are kind of similar in that idea of commerce happening uh winter is the house of black and white for them it's all around them so I'm curious about these ships because as we know, Wyman goes to Winterfell and is like, wildcard, bitches. This obviously, again, is a hint to show us that Wyman was preparing for war. Maybe they'll be used against Euron. I could see that happening. Moreover, I think it's going to be an endgame thing. I think these ships will definitely be

an endgame for either the North or the South or whoever needs them. After all the ships are depleted, a dream of spring looking at you. Obviously, Wyman's building them for Warren because he expects war, right? He expects if the Lannisters find out he's betraying them or pulling one over on them in the Freys and the Boltons, he might be under attack sometime soon. But I don't really foresee anyone other than wights actually attacking the north anytime soon. Like in the actual books, I just really don't see anyone coming north and attacking them. I think everyone's gonna be real busy south with

Euron and with all the batshit crazy things to come in the Winds of Winter. So I'm curious if these ships will likely go south in the end. Yeah mean that's the only thing that kind of makes sense right or like i have no idea the capabilities of the others in terms of the seas and naval stuff like did our ships effective against them at all do we need the ships against them i don't know we we literally don't have that information and you were talking about if they're going south and and what he's going to use it for and that they're being built and i kind of wonder do the lannisters in the phrase know that he's building ships and do they think that the ships are for them because that's something else too then. If he's like, oh, all these ships that are for you,

they are not for you. They are for you in that I am going to use them to kill you. Oh, these? I just got them the other day. They were a hand-me-down. This old thing. Do they know? And is he going to cross them and be like,

psych? I mean, they're inside cross them and be like, psych? I mean, they're inside, so they have to know. Exactly. Like, it's there in plain sight if you're at the castle. But that is Wyman's whole thing. That's his whole thing. There in plain sight. But he does kill those Freys.

Yeah, he does. Oh, he does some shit. So... And then when we leave him, when we last left him, he was keeled over. It might be a secret, right? Because it seems like the gossip isn't really referring to it right now. The gossip all says that Manderly's staying out of it. So maybe I guess the Lannisters in the fray just don't really know and he's trying to keep it a secret and kill someone. But we'll probably talk about it more, of course, in the later chapters. That's kind of what the whole next few chapters are about.

Yes, we will get the big reveal on Wyman's plan. But for now, we'll close out Davos 2. The gates of the new castle had been closed, but a postern opened when he shouted and a guard emerged to ask his business davos showed him the black and gold ribbon that bore the royal seals i need to see lord manderly at once he said my business is with him and him alone and that is davos 2 and a dance with dragons you all can catch us next week in Davos 3 as Davos is taken into the wolf's den. Or the fish,

the mermaid's den, right? Under the sea to Ariel's grotto. But... Okay, a lot of ideas. Quiet at me right now, but I'm going to go with them.

Good idea, Eliana. Yep, yep. With a dinglehopper. You can catch all of eliana's hot ideas when they're not here on the podcast also you can see them here and there in our social media right at girls gone canon c-a-n-o-n on twitter or if you want to email and converse with us about something you thought about the episode or questions or thoughts etc uh send us an email same Same place, girlsgonecanon

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3 I have been one of your hosts Chloe and I have been another one of your hosts Eliana you I can't believe he had the audacity to think that. The audacity. The audacity. Yeah. Amelie on Paris. I do like the movie Amelie, though. Actually, we both watched Amelie and Paris. Sorry, Amelie, Amelis in in Paris it's supposed to rhyme Chloe

they told us Emily in Paris goodbye