Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 118 - AGOT Catelyn I & Intro

Episode Date: March 5, 2021

The earliest chapter that Girls Gone Canon has covered, Catelyn's chapters help us wade into the world of Westeros while setting the stage for the players of this game, including her own and her relationship with Ned.  --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon presents A Song of Ice and Fire, episode 118, Catalin, Introduction, and A Game of Thrones 1. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. Yes, we're here. We did it. Again, I'm still sad about Davos, but it's interesting to once again be here at the start of a new POV. And we're going to be with Catelyn for quite a while. Yeah, this is going to go until October-ish, give or take, depending on life, depending on chapters.

I do miss Davos already a little. I have a little part of my heart now that I'm like, oh, there it goes down the river. But it's floated. Another piece has floated up here to C my heart now that I'm like, oh, there it goes down the river. But it's floated. Another piece has floated up here to Catelyn. So I'm excited. Let's see where it takes us. We've got a lot of stuff. Not just this popping off exciting, like our Patreon episode this month.

Yes. And just as, you know, we are back to the beginning of A Game of Thrones. We are visiting some other beginnings, right? With this Patreon episode by revisiting Dunkin' Egg. But also we have something exciting going on too with this episode. Yeah, you know, way back when, back when, well, maybe not to get a little brand to a storm of swords on you all here, not to get all how I met your mother on you. But way back when, back when we were youngsters, right? Eliana and I had just met and fallen deep in friendship, deep, deep in friendship. And I had a podcast called Drunk, A Song of Ice and Fire History.

It's still there-ish. You can find this on the Internet. Maybe we'll link it for you. your history it's still there-ish you can find this on the internet maybe we'll link it for you but Eliana and I got despairingly drunk and talked about the hedge knight together for several hours I think it came to what like three and a half four hours in the end I think it was more than that and you cut it down to that and we talked for like a whole work day we talked for like eight hours we we bonded throughout this whole experience and our love of the hedge knight of the dunkin egg novellas and i went on with this journey with this podcast

and i recorded the next episode the sworn sword with another friend of the podcast sir joe buckley valerie reedus the isle of faces podcast you might know his writings from tower of the hand you name it he's done it all writes a lot for history of westeros he's a blast but i went on to record with him and we did like a five hour recording on the sworn sword we were properly sloshed by the end we were very drunk sword yep the sloshed sword and I don't know if it was fate or what but something happened to my file it got corrupted I have this side of the file I don't have

mine yeah you know how that goes that's real that's oh my god I do know how that goes so maybe it was the pain of that or maybe it was because Eliana and I fell so so despairingly devastatingly in

friendship. I just couldn't be with anyone else ever again. So that's it. Every month on Patreon.com slash Girls Gone Canon patrons in the stranger tier and above get access to a special episode. Every

other month, the episode is on His Dark Materials. Last month, we released an episode on the novella by Philip Pullman called Serpentine. This month will be on The Sworn Sword featuring Sergio Buckley of the Isle of Faces and Valar Rereadus.

So, very excited to announce that. Please check it out at patreon.com slash girlsgonecanon. You can sign up, and if you sign up for the Thunder tier and above, you also get access to Discord, which is a blast. We have our own private little Discord server. We do. And we got a, I particularly tickled at this. We got a new member today, Megan, who was most convinced, I think, by the Final Fantasy X references.

So that brings me joy. Well, I'm very excited about our Final Fantasy, which is this episode. I can't believe it was just the Final Fantasy X. What about the VIII? That's what surprises me. But I actually never played VIII. I think that X might have been... Actually, no.

VII and VIII were really popular, but I feel like X was egregiously popular during a certain time, you know? Yeah, absolutely. The aughts especially were fond of X. And not just that, but I think it's because VII, VIII, IX, right? Oh, wow. Indeed, that is how consumption works. All right. Stop dicking around.

God. Well, I'm excited about the sworn sword because I love Duncan Egg. Yes. I guess we're going gonna have to do the mystery night eventually after this one right that's got to be on the table yeah but when we will do the mystery night is also a mystery hmm well we got an email of note an email i would like to highlight this week from our friend Alex. They wrote us a wonderful note. There's so much. We did trim some of it down because we do hope that Alex will come

on and hang out with us on the podcast during Catalin this season. And I think this email they sent does sum up a lot of the way that I too see Catalin. Not all of the way, just a lot of it. Yeah, and I think that Alex has a lot of other perspective that I'm really excited for them to bring on to the cast in terms of analyzing Catlin. So fingers crossed, everyone. But here's just a snippet. There's a lot of things that we unfortunately had to trim, because again, you gotta leave a little mystery, you know? A little ink to start off Alex talks a little bit of

first of all how Cat is one of their favorite POVs but also dives into it more saying that if you look at Aswath with the framework of a romantic series capital R romantic by the way a fantasy series, a mystery, horror, thriller, epic, drama, series, all these genres, and add the novelty and insight of having female

characters be so central and independent, I think you'd see why I'd suggest Kat is the best. Kat's emotions are what tie these themes together, even as they sometimes clash. Kat is a fantasy character. She sees some magical stuff. She visits castles and shit. Kat is involved in a few overlapping and convoluted whodunits. And Kat is simultaneously the rebel PI, femme fatale, by the book gumshoe, and victim. And then in parentheses is some slander, but I'm going to read it aloud anyway. Mostly stemming from her relationship with another GGC favorite, Littlefinger. Get a job. Get a job. Get a job.

I think favorite to hate on, for sure. And Alex continues, Kat is also a character who encounters and puts a fresh coat of paint on a literary epic. Kat is defined by the time just beyond living memory and the era gone by for Westeros, her adherence and understanding of the Westerosi norms, even as the increasing magic and political-slash-societal rot going nuclear creates a crisis and double consciousness, the touches or breaks every single character in the series and Kat still goes forward. This is Odysseus, just after war ends and unable to go home due to outside meddling. Kat grew up under the shadow of the war

of the Ninepenny Kings and the Blackfire Rebellions. She matured during Robert's Rebellion and is a central supporting figure in the War of the Five Kings, and throughout all of this comes the drama. When I see people criticize Kat for trusting Liza or Peter or even the Westerosi norms, I'm like, well, what reasonable person would expect the worst in people, especially considering the people they grew up with? Over the three books of Catelyn Stark, as we in the world knew her, she has a prolonged dark night of the soul. She has to learn very quickly just how much the people she held close to her heart were disappointments at best, and evil treasonous

pieces of shit at worst. That's an exaggerated series of painful truth and discoveries. Family betrayals, family drama, family gossip coming to life, and oh, by the way, at these same moments you're all sweatbore and could expect an army to start sieging you at any moment. Catalin experiences these romantic themes most strongly, and I think one of the biggest challenges for a person. How do you contextualize your own happiness when you see the misery in your wake? And like many epic characters before her, she just wants to fucking go home. We do regret cutting the Beyonce and Cher lyrics that Alex quoted here, but like we said, Alex will hopefully come on and tell you all about it

and describe them in full. So in conclusion, as they say, she. She? She. Compelling piece. And again, like this is a lot of the same framework. Catelyn totally embraces society, right? Like society is what she was raised on.

Her father raised her and said, Catelyn, if you do these things, you marry well for the family. You make sure that, you know, our defenses are well stocked. All of these different household things are done. Nothing can hurt you. This is your piece of land. These are your people and unfortunately she learned that your very people can hurt you and as alex points out it's a lesson that many of the characters get throughout the series alex also included quite a few other

pieces that we cut which again regrettably so not just the beyonce and cheer lyrics but quite a bit of poetry from william blake and yes a couple of other other poets and a couple of other other poets and and ties it back to a lot of these edenic ideas of a time of innocence and childhood and coming out of that and i think that's part of what's so significant structurally about the role that cat plays in this book right again this is one of the earliest game of thrones chapters that we this is the earliest game of thrones chapter a song of ice and fire chapter you and i have ever covered it's got a lot of world building and context setting because of that and that's part of why it makes sense that a lot of that that coming out of innocence cat is how we structure westeros right how a lot of that coming out of innocence, Kat is how we structure Westeros, right?

How a lot of the foundations of how this society is set up and the exposition comes through and the setting, and then it all breaks apart also through Kat's POV. And I think that that's important to, again, how the story is laid out. Yeah, we'll get into it in the chapter a bit more. But as the third chapter in the story thus far, George has already been building the norm. And this is kind of the first chapter of the first three that goes outside of this norm he's laid out, right? If you're following

him chronologically, one is prologue, two is Bran, and then three is Cat. And the first two chapters kind of show you things are going on and the third chapter Cat just gives this total flip of a POV and kind of turns everything that you've been told so far or seen so far with your two eyes on its head. So we'll talk about that soon. But first we are going to jump in with our lightning round for the introduction to Catalin. What that lightning round is going to be is a little bit of everything, right? Pre A Song of Ice and Fire, the rebellion, post-rebellion, and then we'll get into our overview and some of the themes that cross over with Davos

before we go into a real lightning round with the book A Game of Thrones. So this will just cover a little bit of what we're missing as we go into Catelyn's story. Yes, so we're going to start off with pre-Aswath, pre-rebellion, and Cat's childhood. Cat is born in 264 AC, possibly 265, gravy, to Manisa Tully, nay went, and Hoster Tully, anointed in Reverend Sept with the sevenils. At some time, you know, it's interesting how also this is gravy. Cat lost her mother sometime between the ages of three and fourteen, which is actually an enormous range, but there's implications that maybe it was around the age of seven, so sort of like in between there. Cat is the eldest daughter of Hoster's children, and also actually lost her two older brothers who preceded her in their infancy.

So until the birth of Edmure, Kat was Hoster's heir. And even after her brother's eventual birth and becoming the heir, perhaps she was still Hoster's favorite. She was raised at Riverrun with her surviving siblings, Liza and Edmure, and their father's ward, Peter Baelish. Her mother died in childbirth with the youngest son, who did not survive either. She doesn't have many memories of her mother beyond her warm smile and soft hands, but her memories with her father are closer. She'd accompany him on his travels, read to him in his solar, and always watched for him at the battlements as he marched off to war i think her being raised as his heir definitely for at least a couple of years there seems important right like it may have been seven-ish like you said but it could have been a year or

two after that even who knows it could have been seven more years after seven based on based on george doesn't care it says yeah it says that uh minisa went died sometime between what is it 268 this is this is what the wiki says 268 ac and 278 ac and that's a big range to say the least to say the least amidst kissing games and her youth with her sister and peter bailish or pretending to be jenny of old stones on the trip to seaguard catalan ends up a trove the age 12 to brandon stark the wild wolf unfortunately catalan picked up a little problem along the way peter bailish was in love with her and years later when her wedding's announced, he duels Brandon for her hand, which she begs him. She's like, please go easy on him, Brandon.

And he loses. Scorned, heartbroken, hell-bent on revenge rises the true villain of the story, Peter Baelish. We live in a society. Peter tries to send her letters. Kat burns them all, which she should. She should. Brandon leaves Riverrun, but when he does,

he learns about the absence of his sister. Your sister. Your sister. Well, we'll talk about, uh, well, I guess Catelyn's the your sister. Anyway, before we get to all that, we've got a rebellion on our hands.

Brandon is furious to hear that his sister has been kidnapped by Rhaegar Targaryen? If that even is his real name. I think it is. Maybe. Maybe not. Brandon goes to King's Landing

and yells a lot for Rhaegar to come out and die and the Mad King is like lock that bitch up and then Ashara Dane allegedly according to some maybe fucks him in the dungeons? No, they're wrong. None of those people are right. It's not possible. The timeline doesn't add up.

What is this? Why is this in here? Why is this in our hotline? Rickard Stark shows up to champion Brandon. Ares chooses fire slash violence and then some charred wolf for dinner, but not actually. The cannibalism hasn't started yet at this point

in the story. And so, you know, Catelyn gets passed off to marry Brandon's younger, quieter, less-thumbly brother, Nedward, and she and her sister become sister-wives in a great double war-budding after the Battle of the Bells. To this day, Ned still feels burden of brandon having been the one that cat was promised to cat and ned have time to conceive a child on their wedding night one and done amazing there's more

there's more after that but they're not done they're not done by far but off ned goes into the wild war she however remains at Riverrun for a year. She has Rob and then she heads north post-war, where she discovers that Ned brought home an oopsie daisy-ish asterisk, and he already moved this kid in. But whose oopsie daisy is it, you ask? This, of course, caused absolutely no tension and no trust issues whatsoever and leads us into post-rebellion Kat and Ned have four more kids even though

the wedge between them whether it's just over Brandon's death or John slowly drives ever deeper And so maybe some of you are wondering, after all of this, why put Catelyn after Davos, though I'm sure many of you are not in fact wondering that because a lot of you guessed it. Well, let's start out. Chloe talked about this a little bit before, but there's some of those connections when it comes to water. little bit before but there's some of those connections when it comes to water let the kings of winter have their cold crypt under the earth catalan thought the tollies drew their strength from the river and it was to the river they returned when their lives had run their course a storm of swords catalan for yes so there is uh some of that water bringing them together they also have the comparison of motherhood versus fatherhood, right? Their children are big parts of their POV. Maybe if they're not always present, necessarily,

they both lose their children in war. And then, of course, both of them have these ideas of what is family, duty, honor, of course, the house of telling words, but also loyalty and a bit of disloyalty. Both Catlin and Davos ruminate often on the social hierarchy and at times feel very bound to it. Yet at the same time, they end up betraying their kings for their family or for family in general.

Yes. The seven gods are also very prominent in their chapters, right? We see a lot of sects, a lot of the seven, a lot of the gods in prayer and learn a lot about the gods through them and then of course the roles that they both play as ambassadors and diplomats but also unlikely ones right davos of course is not a hand that anyone expects and catlin as well as a woman in westeros is not always the likeliest or first choice, yet they both do it anyway. And we talked about this a little towards the end of Davos's chapters. Both of them play integral roles in A Clash of Kings,

where Catelyn, again, in my opinion, is much of the thread that holds the whole book together. And Davos is an introduction of another big arc that leads to one of the climaxes of the book and introduces that. So there's a lot there. Yeah. And I think even just the chapters, how they revolve around each other, their plots, you know, they're never directly involved with each other to where they speak to each other in conversation or have anything, but their plots actually directly revolve around each other right through the first couple books. They just might not know it. Speaking about that faith, there's an element of the idea of death and rebirth literally in cat's story more metaphorically

in davos's that comes for both of them and you know again that idea of water and baptism both of them dying well both of their bodies kind of thrown into the water and then emerging from them so what does that mean what does it mean rebirth well we're gonna rebirth this lightning round right because we're gonna have another lightning round right now real quick though this one is like blink you will miss it so here is our lightning round for the first two chapters of A Game of Thrones. In the prologue, in the north, the men of the Night's Watch track a threat, the Free Folk, but instead encounter the Others along the way, the first sighting in 8,000 years, they think. Bran I. Lord Eddard Stark means to teach his sons what justice means by executing a deserter of the Night's Watch. The party finds direwolves in the snow as they return to Winterfell. Chloe's like, why was this so dramatic?

That rollercoaster has delivered me to Catelyn 1. Fifteen years have gone by in Winterfell, but Catelyn Stark still feels like a fish out of water. Especially when she must navigate the stone walls surrounding it and surrounding her lord husband's heart as well. Dark wings, dark words land in Winterfell, however, and into the godswood Lady Stark must enter. Catelyn I. This is, of course, a chapter that is laden with lots of lore, worldbuilding, and information. We learn tons about Robert's Rebellion, a bit about the Riverlands, the Eyrie, the Arryns, the Lannisters, the Targaryens, and of course even the beginning of a mystery. A lot of characters connections are explained, a lot of their relationships to each other are explained,

and a lot of just basic storytelling goes on. Yeah and we're gonna go through this and honestly it's impressive and again a lot of this is because this is like the earliest chapter we've done in the whole entire series and before this, fun fact, it was in fact our very first episode ever entered one which was which is the fifth chapter in this book whereas cats is the third yeah and it shows right these are some quick chapters they are just quick enough to get you into it to get ready to digest it because you read this chapter and you go okay what's next what's the next one i love it all right catalan had never liked this godswood she had been born a tully at river run far to the south on the red fork of the trident the godswood there was a garden bright and airy where tall redwoods spread dappled shadows across tinkling streams birds sang from

hidden nests and the air was spicy with the scent of flowers. The gods of Winterfell kept a different sort of wood. It was a dark, primal place, three acres of old forest untouched for ten thousand years as the gloomy castle rose around it. It smelled of moist earth and decay. No redwoods grew here. This was a wood of stubborn sentinel trees armored in gray-green needles of mighty oaks, of iron woods as old as the realm itself. Here, thick black trunks crowded close together while twisted branches wove a dense canopy overhead, and misshapen root wrestled beneath the soil. This was a place of deep silence and brooding shadows, and the gods who lived here had no names.

Hmm. What an opening. And it's a strong opening sentence in this chapter. It does a lot of lifting, a lot of work in terms of the characterization. Right from the start the prologue starts with the dialogue right that very first prologue uh the dialogue about the time and the place of where a lot of this is occurring brand's chapters continue with uh setting the scenery in the world and you know all of these kind of set up uh some of ned's character but

what's so interesting about cat's first chapter is it starts with an opinion. That very first sentence is an opinion that she never liked this godswed. In terms of the world building and lore, George is also doing, again, a lot of impressive heavy lifting, simultaneously both fleshing out Kat's character while also at the same time establishing the cultural differences within Westeros. He's already shown us a bit of the North through both the prologue and Bran's chapters, and here, through that contrast, is giving us what the Southern cultures are like. And in some ways, Cat's chapter operates, I would say, a little bit similarly to Ari's Oakheart's one single chapter, by giving us that sort of outsider's perspective on the North. And through that allows us to really

flesh out the details and again, build out the South. And George is doing this structure, I think, intentionally, right? He opens the books up, not just with the prologue, but with Bran, a child who has less experience with the world. And that allows the audience to sort of come in from this perspective of knowing less, the sort of innocence that allows him to set the stage for things, and then with Kat, right, who as an outsider is sort of observing things, recognizing them, and comparing them. It's really smart. But unlike Ari's Okart, even though Kat is still unnerved by many of the things in the North and thinks of the Northerners as quite strange to her compared to the culture that she grew up in, As we're going to see throughout this chapter, there are actually very many ways that she might

be more of a believer in some of these old powers that exist in the North than her own husband is. Yeah, that's a really great point. I think that George sets this very well, right? This is very dressed well as far as time. For those of you that have seen the bad show in the bad show this takes place middle of day pretty much they come home from the execution everything's still bright out and she's like honey i'm making dinner that's not what happens but you know what i mean i don't know if cat knows how to cook i hope i wonder if it's just like that bridgerton scene where they're like, I can heat up the milk, and then they can't heat up the milk because they're idiots.

But I digress. The show did it in the broad daylight, right? This scene happened in broad daylight, but in the book, it's actually nighttime. It's dark. The water is reflecting black. It's spooky. It's a little haunted. It's very creepy.

It doesn't feel middle of the day. So it's something to think about. Absolutely. She knew that Lord Eddard, her husband, would be in the godswood. That's where he went whenever he must take a man's life. Cat herself had been anointed with the seven oils named in the rainbow of light that fills a sept, particularly Riverrun's. Her father and grandfather and his father had all kept the gods of the seven.

Each was named, each had faces. At worship, a septon with a censer led. The smell of incense in the air, voices in song, a seven spiked crystal alive with light. The Tullys also kept the godswood because all the great houses did, but it was just for walking, reading, or sunbathing. The sept is where all the worship happened. Ned had also built a small sept for her in Winterfell when they married, where she could sing to the seven faces of the gods but the blood of the first men

flowed still in the stark veins this is a really significant thing right that ned as disjointed as their marriage can be sometimes ned built her a sept and it also shows a line a line that we're going to talk about later of course with ashara for example, in her presence in Catalin's life and kind of some of the inferences that Catalin makes from what she hears of gossip. But there's a strong division. There's a line being put down by Ned with that sept. We're going to discuss a lot of the ways throughout Catalin's POV, Cat and Ned's relationship was successful, right? They learned to love and function as a unit together in some successful ways and some ways that were not very successful and definitely failed.

I'm probably pretty hard on Ned, I think, personally. I don't remember really how I was when we first covered Ned, but I was really sad. You know, it was a sad time back then, but I think I am hard on him sometimes, though. I do think that he let his trauma be the walls built around

his family, right? In bad ways, you know? I've been playing a lot of The Sims 2, and if you remove a door, and you build walls around people, and you don't let them leave, they die. Okay? They wither up and die. That's in The Sims 2. So, I'm just applying theory to the books. Anyways, so Catelyn I, in this entire chapter, it's pretty clear she is an

outsider in his sacred special place, which ironically, if you place this next to one of John's dreams of the crypts of Winterfell, they read pretty similarly, right? It's not so different. She's isolated, she's alone, but when she first arrives to this place, to Winterfell, Ned wanted to give her that sanctuary. Part of it is probably his hope to keep her out, right, of his own sanctuary, both literally and figuratively speaking, keep her out of his vulnerabilities as well. I think the duality of her sept and his godswood is something symbolic, that both of them are from these two worlds, these two religions, with different wiring, living these separate lives in the same home, but they're not even on the same planet. The Winterfell godswood, later in the books, it's destroyed, right?

Like right now in Catelyn I, it's there, it's standing, but as we get on, we learn it gets destroyed in the second. Winterfell, back in Theon, we hear about it, it's the Sept Beyond had never been rebuilt, only a seven-sided foundation remained where it had stood. Interesting. Yep. I don't know if that means anything. I don't know if that means anything. That's a metaphor, I would say, right? That's her broken sanctuary, though. Also, that's Catelyn's broken sanctuary.

That's her faith broken. They're in Winterfell, in her home. And it's understandable, right, for her faith to be broken. I kind of read Ned building the sanctuary for her as him trying to do his best to make his new wife feel more comfortable up here. And I think that's part of what led to the successes that they did have in their marriage, right? That they were willing to try to compromise, not just compromise, but understand one another and reach out to one another. There's obviously that one spot, which is John, where he draws the line entirely but in many ways they try to reach

across and understand one another and in some ways i think that shows one of the great successes of not just their marriage but the politics of it as the north and the south coming together i think that it was a sanctuary he gave her absolutely i just also think it's multifaceted, just like the seven gods. It's not just a, here's your happy sanctuary, honey. It's also, I'm giving you your sept because also I brought home this bastard child that I refuse to tell you the truth about. And this is the only way I can try to give you something of your life that I stole from you, lol. Yeah. Yeah. thing of your life that i stole from you lol yeah well yeah that he didn't want to steal a lot of people didn't want to a lot of people stole it from cad and we'll explore that as we

and from that yeah hoster a lot of things were stolen from them they they both do suffer that trauma and we'll talk about that ned's gods as you said though are the old gods are nameless and faceless they shared these gods with the long-gone children of the forest, with an ancient weirwood that's at the center of the grove. And I don't know that it means anything, but it might, because faceless men do come up in this book. But those words, nameless and faceless, together here, right, referring to the old gods, like, it feels like very interesting language.

Though I will say, arguably, as a complete aside, are they that faceless like the whole point is that the trees have faces on them just saying big rainforest cafe shit it is interesting because this chapter does suggest that they are changeable possibly right the tree leans over a small cool black pool of water ned calls the tree the heart tree its bark is white as bone leaves red like a thousand blood-stained hands and the face carved into it is long and melancholy the tears of dried sap in its eyes so interesting that the face of the tree is long and melancholy which is kind of

like a stark look right that's ned's face ned's got the long sad face the tree has stark features so this is where it's lived it's lived within winterfell for all of these many many thousands of years so two thoughts to that could the tree over time morph its face to match the stark look question mark uh a follow-up thought it makes me consider uh i mean all of it like the trees remind you of brand right knowing what we know this is a reread podcast and we know brand can connect to the weirwood.net but all of the time she's thinking these eyes are watching her and she's standing here and later on brand watches memories through the tree so, and I don't know if it's that literal, right? Like, I think it's more figurative. I don't think the trees like copy someone's face,

like a sci-fi, stick your face in the tree, and all of a sudden your face appears on the other side of the tree kind of thing. But I don't know, reminds me of Bran watching her, Bran's face, maybe the tree forms to the viewer. Who knows? Who knows? I think you're onto something. And I don't think it's out of the cards, out of the wild cards for George to do that and have the trees adapt to the features of those around him. Because it reminds me a little of, and this is top of mind for me because people have been talking about it. And one of our friends, I don't know if he wants me to tell folks yet that he's putting out an analysis of Sand Kings, but it reminds me of the short story, Sand Kings, that George wrote, in which the main character is very cruel to the Sand King pets, and acts like a cruel god, and plays god with them, and eventually, as the Sand Kings grow, he starts to notice that

they kind of look like they have his face. So this is something that George is, in fact, I think, a little bit interested in. Wow. So what if Bran is watching this memory and Bran time travel is real, bro? I'm just kidding. I'm sorry. But it could be. Right?

They could have carved the tree to either look like themselves or over the years with the sacrifices. Or one of the many brands of Warfell. I mean, hmm. I don't think what you're saying is, again, out of the cards. I'm like, is this just quarantine brain? Is this one year of being locked in a house and I'm just theorizing wildly about tree faces? Or is it real? Theorizing wild theorizing wildly about tree faces or is it real theorizing wild cardsly about tree faces yes the tree was older than winterfell itself if stories were true

the tree watched brandon the builder set the first stone of winterfell the children of the forest were said to have carved the faces centuries ago when weirwoods stood across the land in the south cadeline thinks most of the weirwoods stood across the land in the south cadeline thinks most of the weirwoods have been cut or burnt but for the isle of faces where the green men kept their silent watch the north was much different than the south each castle had a godswood each godswood a heart tree each tree a face cadeline finds ned under the weirwood on a moss-covered stone cleaning the great sword ice in the black waters the eyes of the weirwood on a moss-covered stone, cleaning the greatsword ice in the black waters. The eyes of the weirwood follow her as she comes.

She calls his name softly, and he speaks to her, distant, formal, and asks where the children are. He always asked her this. Totally want this to just be like a Modern Family aside, that she just looks at the camera and she's like, he always asks me that. But this is this is the first dialogue said to Catelyn in the story, right? Where are the children? I think that's interesting considering her role in not just Westeros's eye, but also in Ned's eye as well. We see this come back for Catelyn in the chapter later as well with regards to where the children are but on the other side of it this is what they have the most in common right like i

don't know if you've ever been in a conversation with someone but if you have animals in common or children in common there's always the common denominator you can fall back on with the silence for me that's my cats usually but okay yes you're you're they are in some ways also your children yep yes yes they're the only kids i'll ever have eliana oh my god where are my dragons okay sorry uh they are they are targaryens you know your cats fuck and you know you're talking about the role that people see caitlin as but but it is also, of course, in many ways, the role that Catelyn sees for herself. It's what she's grown herself into, this role of the mother, because Westerosi society expected it of her and she was glad to oblige. Yeah, it's what she was groomed for.

Yeah. The children were arguing in the kitchen, though, about names for the direwolf pups, she says, and as it was, then she spreads her cloak on the floor beside the pool sitting on it, her back to the weirwood. She ignores the tree eyes watching her and tells them that Arya is in love with the wolves and Sansa is charmed, but Rickon isn't sure, maybe a little bit afraid, and Ned thinks aloud that three-year-old Rickon must learn to face his fears soon because he's going to grow up soon and winter is coming. The tree eyes are watching her here, and before she spreads her cloak on the floor, she sits with her back to the trees, right? So she doesn't have to feel the eyes as much or see them or stare at them. have to feel the eyes as much or see them or stare at them and it's interesting because we just were told about the weirwood coloring in the last chapter when it comes to ghost to john's wolf right so i'm sure when she saw those wolves and when ned asked her how the wolves and children are doing i'm sure she's thinking of that wolf right now and the animosity she feels toward john

when she feels the weirwoods watching her with those stark faces yes especially since john is the not just the coloring right has the stark face probably looks maybe like the tree as you were describing more northern than most of her kids and she tried so hard. Poor cat. It was never going to happen, girl. The seed is strong. Well, yeah, it was. And you know that this line about Ricken, right? It's called out in this thread on Reddit from a few months ago that I thought was really funny. And someone else did too.

They pointed out one of the funniest lines in the book. And for them, coming back to Jon, it's john like going like john felt 15 years old again john 16 years old a whole year older so not not that far off he's he's really angsty but it is uh kind of bizarre when you think of ned and cat being like oh yeah reckons almost four. He's gotta step shit up. It's time to grow up. But again, we spoke long ago about Sansa's chapters and reiterated this with Quentin and Ariadne and Theon that many of these characters, right,

they are just children or very, very young. And how George characterizes the responsibilities and expectations of children are in some ways somewhat ahistorical, but also in some ways very exaggerated, and they're meant to be, right? That we're placing these superhuman expectations on these children. But it also, again, doesn't matter what societal expectations of children are, because literally, human psychology develops at a certain pace, regardless. This expectation from Ned and Kat, kat though it's just so outlandish until i think it's contextualized and i love and gonna i'm gonna call out again this comment from reddit user

ars8birds which we did once upon a time discuss on that other podcast i do meester occasionally is what it might be called now but to read read aloud this quote, I always want to insert myself into the book and yell at Ned for that. I try to remind myself that in one fell swoop, his father and brother, the lord and heir died, putting a lot of unexpected responsibility on him. And it's the same with Kat. Her mom died when she was seven-ish, maybe, unsure again, and suddenly she was the Lady of Riverrun. I think that's one of the reasons why she wanted Arya to be more ladylike, although the primary reason is just regular, like, that's what she thought girls should do. And both Kat and Ned want their kids to be more prepared than they were.

That makes a totally, like, big amount of sense. It's a really great practical way to look at it because that is how it is right like they expect them to be ready to go face everything that they couldn't face properly yeah i absolutely both of them have trauma from the war and we have this quote about the house words catlin agreed the words gave her a chill, as they always did. The Stark words. Every noble house had its words. Family mottos, touchstones, prayers of sorts. They boasted of honor and glory. Promised loyalty and truth. Swore faith and courage. All but the Starks. Winter is coming, said the Stark words. I love that because it's our first really, I don't know, our heads up about house words, right? Like these are house words and House Stark has some badass scary ones. And also like most house words are bullshit is basically what she's saying, which is true. Ned says the deserter died well, running oiled leather up and down the sword.

He says she would have been proud of bran catelyn says she's always proud of bran and i just want to say that i too am always proud of bran as well i too oh it is sweet we've talked before about the sword being the extension of the person right and swords also having a little bit of a phallic imagery in some situations. When you think back to the old Jaime and Brienne. Ned looks at his sword exactly in the same way he looks at Catelyn, right? Romantically speaking, like he's tenderly holding his sword. He's embracing it almost like a lover, as she describes. But moreover, he's doing his duty to keep it clean and polished for when he uses it in battle, right?

For execution. doing his duty to keep it clean and polished for when he uses it in battle right for execution ice is an extension of his duty to his name right to the stark name to all he's forsaken for the stark name to the life he could have led and everything the stark name has cost him which is you know starks coincidentally uh death you know all that good stuff so while catalan sits here watching it it's interesting because it's probably the same methodical duty he does with her in the bed and what we'll see in her next chapter yeah i think after a while it did become a little less methodical but i mean he came i think he pulled her hair after a while that's what the last chapter is about um whoa that's why she's like, Ned loved my hair.

Ned loved to pull my hair. Get off this podcast. I'm ruining things. You're a ruiner of things. But yes, absolutely. That is very much the basis of their marriage, right? All of that. And while Catelyn herself has no love of words, she couldn't deny the beauty of ice forged in Valyria before

the Doom came to the Freehold. Forged with spells and hammers, it was passed down from one of the Starks where the King's in the North. And that deserter, whom we all remember Gerard. He's half mad, allegedly, and also interestingly, was the fourth deserter of the year. And Ned could see that Gerard had a deep fear within him. His brother, Benjen, had written that the strength of the Night's Watch was below a thousand, not just from desertions, also they're just losing men on ranging. Spooky. Ned and Catelyn both think it could only be the wildlings, and he says that it will grow worse. He may have to someday ride north to deal with this king beyond the wall for good and for all. And that makes Cat shudder and dread fills her face. He tells her that, you know what,

Nance Reader is nothing to fear, but she's much more afraid of the dark things lurking beyond the wall. This has a lot of traces of that 93 that 93-pitch letter, right? Abandoned by the Night's Watch, Catelyn and her children will find their only hope of safety lies even further north, beyond the Wall, where they fall into the hands of Mance Rayder, the King Beyond the Wall, and get a dreadful glimpse of the inhuman Others as they attack the Wildling encampment. Bran's magic, Arya's's sword needle and the savagery of their dire wolves help them survive but their mother catalan will die at the hands of the others definitely feel some of those traces there right with the man's raider is uh is causing trouble

yes i also love that cat was always going to be a zombie, right? Like even here, she was definitely going to be reanimated north of the wall as a white. So whether by fire or by ice, Katalin was always going to come back to life. So I think that it also speaks to, maybe we'll talk about this later, but Chloe, you have a theory about a reuniting. And I think that this proximity between some of those characters here and that death speaks to that theory of yours. Yeah, actually, now that you say that, I realized it like out loud as you just said that. I was like, oh, yeah, so Arya probably would have killed her north of the wall and put her down as a white to save them yeah or like she appears yes absolutely i think the proximity there speaks to um yeah your theories about the concept of mercy and that yeah reuniting. Yeah, of what could be in store for their reunion, for sure. Reunion, that's the word. There we go.

Well, better, it's your theory. Kat glances behind at the waiting and watching heart tree. Ned is gentle with her and says she listens to too many of Old Nan's stories. The others are dead, as are the children of the forest, and they have been for 8,000 years now. Maester Luwin will tell her that they never even lived at all. No one has seen them. No one living. She reminds him the same could be said of direwolves until this morning.

Got him. We literally know all this. Like, you guys are so stupid. We learned all this two chapters ago. We are so far ahead of you. Get with it. No, I'm just kidding. As far as the first chapter goes, this is a great contrast for Catelyn. Her first chapter tells us everything we just read from the prologue is a lie, right? Like she and Ned are discussing this and Ned says, no, no, no. That first chapter you, the reader, read is a lie, even though we, the reader, were shown it it so we know the prologue is objectively true

the others are back they probably never really left fully maybe question we don't know we don't actually know maybe it's magic that woke them yeah that's we'll get there guys but allegedly but these characters right now with this discussion cat is kind of supernaturally inclined as we're discussing. And she's sitting here like something weird is going on out there, Eddie. But Ned is so like, no, no, there's no others. There's no children. You're being silly. You're listening to old man stories.

And it turns out he's wrong. There are. And we've already been shown the objective truth so i really like that he's taking these characters who are supposed to be our moral compass right like these are our protagonist parents this is our mom and dad that we cherish that are out here like being so good having cute vanilla e-sex minus the ned loves my hair pulling comment aliana made uh they're very sweet you know the mom and dad and you want Eliana made. They're very sweet, you know, the mom and dad.

You want to believe them, but you're sitting here already and going, oh, you guys are objectively wrong. Yes, well, one of them is objectively wrong, right? Kat's got some thoughts. She's like, I don't know. I don't know, Ned. Anything's possible, Ned.

She's got that Miss Clavel something is not right vibe going on. She's right, but Ned doesn't know that. He gives her a rueful smile, stating that he should know better than to argue with a Tully. True. And puts his sword away.

He knows she doesn't like the godswood, which means that she must have something important to say and she takes his hand before telling him the grievous news john aaron the man who basically raised ned was dead and obviously we are doing a lot of building around that and cat's relationship here because that helps you know land a lot of those emotional beats in the story later on and in the years they were together right some sort of love did bloom between them and a lot of those emotional beats in the story later on. And in the years they were together, right, some sort of love did bloom between them. And a lot of it was, of course, a love grown from grief and the trauma of the war that they all survived. And John Aaron

is, of course, a huge part of that, especially for Ned, as we'll see in the following exposition. But that Kat is the one who tells him and that she does not soften the blow i think tells us a few things about her and their relationship she isn't afraid to cut straight to business is one of them and she respects and loves net enough not to try to soften the blow but also that they are close enough for her to be the one to break this news as well right i think that we see a couple of relationships and marriages in westeros where that would not be the dynamic or she would not be privy to that information at all. But it also shows us that she has the courage to be the one to deliver that bad news to Ned.

And in some ways, I think it's her own version of being the one to swing the sword. Oh, that's great. And in a way that makes her the shield and Ned the sword in the relationship. Yes, her courtesy. Oh, yeah, and he's putting away his sword at the moment well and he has a place to sheath his anyways john aaron had been a second father to ned and king robert baratheon and raised his moon and falcon banners in revolt when aries demanded their heads and he had been a brother to them, kind of as well, right? Standing next to Ned as they wed two sisters, Lysa and Catelyn Tully. He asks if the news is certain, and she says it was the King's seal in Robert's hand.

Lord Arryn was taken quickly. Even Maester Pycelle was unable to help him more than giving him milk of the poppy. He didn't linger in pain, at least. Ned worries about Liza, Catelyn's sister, and John Aaron's son, Sweet Robin. Catelyn says they're well and that they've returned to the Eyrie. She wishes they would go to Riverrun instead. The Eyrie is lonely and high and not Liza's place. dead the eerie is lonely and high and not liza's place her husband's memory would haunt each of the stones this is a rather romantic view compared to what cadeline gets when she finally gets to her sister's house right like that big journey and she's like oh i'm eating some of the words i said in my first chapter about this uh but it's at the same time it is true in a few ways right like if liza hadn't been so isolated and uh so easily manipulated had people been checking in on her had her support

system been bigger maybe she wouldn't have let little finger in so close maybe he wouldn't have been able to manipulate her so well we just don't know and make her murder her husband and all that jazz i don't know you said let little finger in and i was like oh no keep him out if he's cold if you're cold he's cold let him out close close the legs don't let him in you know how like people call on cars that have dogs in them in the summer which you should always do when it's too hot like in a heat wave during you know like global climate change as it's experiencing around the world but it's like that except leave him in there like yeah i was like i don't know leave little finger in the car i don't understand i was like is she telling me to save him because no no no and the reason why obviously we feel that way is because part of it is what you're saying, right?

This isolation of Liza. It's not just, like, accidental. Part of it is very much how Littlefinger operates, right? As an abuser, he's intentionally trying to isolate Liza. Though, of course, we don't know that yet. I mean, we do because it's reread. It is interesting, though, for Kat to say that Liza would feel isolated and strange at the Erie as opposed to feeling at home, because I think it's an insight, right her sister is suffering a little bit of grief uh not from what she is telling us she's suffering she is suffering from a lot of trauma and grief but when we see liza in the eerie she's

i wouldn't say happy but she's assertive and she's fulfilled and having something to rule over and people to rule over and no one to really say no to because she's not like outlandish, outlandish, right? She's just a little bit of crazy. She's just like slightly a little, oh, okay, lady, you're a little baddie, but all right. No one's going to say no to her. She's in her domain. That baddiness is that went blood in her, isn't it? Oh, baddie. Yeah, that bitch is baddie.

Love her though. I mean, I'm like, you know me, I'm a sympathizer. Liza, apologize. Yeah. She's interesting. We'll obviously get into her. Yes. Later on.

I mean, it's literally in Kat's chapters. I do think that there are many reasons though, looking at this and the way that she reacts to what's going on in Liza's life maybe gives us some insight into some of the reasons why Kat doesn't return to Winterfell after Ned's death. I mean, there are many reasons, right? A lot of them do make sense to me in terms of just logistics and other things, and of course plot. You know, do it for the plot. But I do wonder if there's an element of this in her subconscious, right? because where she does end up afterwards is back at river run but turns out even though she goes back home river run ends up being in many ways just as

isolating as her family is dying around her so she thinks and it's changed from her girlhood home as also her father is dying right in front of her too and also saying crazy things to her that she doesn't understand from traumatizing his daughter and not being a very good father but we'll get again get into that and to an extent we also see the grief that losing a father has for both ned and kat through kat's chapters but of course i mean ned's chapters explore it for himself as well when it comes to Jon Arryn. Yeah, that's a great point. They are connected through their grief. And I mean, if anything, if I know anything, it's that we get old and everyone around us dies and then we die, right?

Like, that's just the natural progression of things. Absolutely. And they are getting to that middle-of-the-road age where they're going to start seeing people they know die. middle of the road age where they're gonna start seeing people they know die uh sometimes it might be illusions and they might just think someone's dead and they aren't actually dead like all your children and that's a that's a sucker right like that's a hell of a pill to swallow but yeah it's hard it's that time of life like my parents just keep saying all the time they're just like man all my friends just keep dying. And I'm like, man. Yeah.

I will say some of them like, was it really that time for John Aaron or was it poison? Right. That's true. I mean, that man could have lived forever. My God. Wow. I mean, thank God someone took anyways. Ned mentions their uncle, Brynden, was still the knight of the gate

at the Vale. Catelyn thinks, well, Uncle Brynden will do what he can to comfort them, but... And she trails off, and Ned's like, you should go to her! Take the kids, fill her halls with laughter! And she's like, I hope that I could, but... Bad news, homeskillet, this letter comes

with more strings attached. Kang Robert Baratheon rides for winter fell it takes him a moment to comprehend but a smile breaks across ned's face i kind of want to backtrack and just rest on the idea of like it would have been nice for kat to visit liza with the children that actually would have would have been really sweet. I mean, maybe it wouldn't have had the effect that she thought because, again, Liza killed her husband, but Right. If he had died of natural

causes, like they're saying, then yeah, this would have been so sweet. Maybe it would have been doubly exciting for Liza. She gets rid of her husband and her sister. Well, actually she hates her sister, never mind. In another universe that was very sweet. She gets rid of her husband and her sister. Well, actually, she hates her sister. Never mind. Yeah. In another universe.

That was very sweet. This would be really cute if it wasn't these characters whatsoever, Eliana. If they were different people entirely and this was not A Song of Ice and Fire. Well, this is A Song of Ice and Fire and George wrote it. And so some of how this plays out with the news that cat breaks i don't know that george actually intended this in terms of how it how he structures it and the reveal of the information and that setup um part of it is he structures it this way because he has to move the plot forward and it makes sense for the information to be

delivered in that order because you have to have something that comes next, right? And you've all read the story, you understand how it flows. But ignoring that meta part about it, what happens within the text is that Kat is someone who is cunning enough to have delivered the bad news first and then given the good news second, knowing that news of Ned's foster brother visiting would bring him joy yes that's perfect how she cushions it very smart and and she wants to protect him from it right like it's not great news you don't want to tell somebody that they're you know their closest thing to a parent left died uh the only you know after all their family was lost in a war and she wishes she could share in

this joy but she's filled with dread because she just thinks about the talk going around that the dire wolf that they found all the little baby dire wolves around was found dead in the snow a broken antler in its throat she forced herself to smile at this man she loved this man who put no faith in signs yes and i think this speaks to what you were saying earlier about cat being right like again besides catlin believing that perhaps something sinister does stir on the other side of the wall she is the one who does put faith in these northern omens about the dire wolves she's the one who actually later reinforces a point that john first makes in bran's chapter uh that the dire wolves and the stark children are meant to be together especially after she witnesses

summer saving bran like she might not have supernatural powers yet, but she does know how to read the signs. Yeah, she has the gut feeling, that's for sure. She suggests to Ned that they send word to his brother on the wall, and Ned agrees and says he'll have Lewin send his quickest bird. Does Lewin just know which of his ravens is the quickest? Ravens is the quickest. Anyway, the invitation of Benjen is another sort of exposition that reinforces that familial-esque bond between Robert, Ned, and Jon Arryn, because with Robert's visit, they're inviting his brother, and that shows us that Robert is very much like his family. It's a family reunion. It is. Ned pulls Kat to her feet and begins to think aloud, asking how many years it has been. And how could Robert give them such little notice?

How? I could never see that coming. How? Robert Baratheon would never gatecrash anything. He asks Katlyn how many men are in Robert's party, and she thinks at least 100 knights with their retainers and half as many free riders. Circe and the children as well, which would provide them a little extra time to get things together it's really notable that Catelyn doesn't know how many people are coming like a hard number because Robert didn't give her a message saying 100 nights with retainers half as many freeriders no this is this is just the letter was hey dad's dead i'm coming over see you soon he sent a text yeah like cersei's coming with the kids and the bros like there's no that's it like you get that he probably didn't give him an exact number so this is catalyn's knowledge of westeros

and the customs of the south and of the crown rightly she also is around for some of the politics that play into the crown and worked with her dad to kind of learn those and be groomed to learn those so Hofstra grooming her as the heir taking her on those diplomatic missions shows here and her vigilance and this knowledge is something she as a lady would learn in keeping a house in estimating numbers and food and drink stores. To understand the Riverlands, too, which is much more densely populated than the North, she would probably be keeping those factors in pretty prominent mind. And you can see the importance of these lessons in how she's imparted them on her point-of-view children, right? As well as Maester Luwin's

lessons, like Sansa, who flexes her knowledge of house sigils and knights in the next chapters and aria's character right learning what she can from the people of the house when she goes to king's landing and not only king's landing but every future destination too and even bran as much as he learns from his father into how to play the stark of winterfell he also learned through his mom a bit of diplomacy in watching and understanding the politics at play. There's also a little bit of something interesting going on here in terms of class and how it gets built out more.

Again, a lot of exposition happening in this chapter. We saw it a bit in Bran's chapters and of course the opening of the prologue, but it's in how the characters address one another. First of all, when we see Cat and Ned first greet one another, they're intimate enough that they just refer to one another by first name, right? Some folks don't do that in this story. Then they also refer to the king never as his grace, and they don't usually say King Robert, they just call him by his first

name, only Robert. And I think that very much shows their closeness and their status as well. And it's the same for Circe. Interestingly, though, Cat does continue to call John Arryn Lord John or Lord Arryn. Maybe it's a habit from her own childhood, because as we know, John Arryn was significantly older. I think it's a little weird that she calls Brendannden Tully at first just Brynden versus uncle or uncle Brynden, which I think is both. It's a little bit of George's just exposition being like, this is the name of Catelyn's uncle because we do get him in this book. And of course, he doesn't really flesh out his really, really intense nuncle philosophies and nomenclature

until later on in the books. Something else that I also love about this scene is the way that George frames Ned and Kat's relationship. He's trying to do this thing where he's trying to make them and humanize them by creating this relatable sort of loving couple to us in these small moments between them and showing that trust with that emotional news, but also in the way that Robert's attendance is delivered. Because along with not really getting the number of people, which is a big Robert move, we don't get a concrete time frame at first of when Robert is going to arrive. That's not given in this chapter. Again, a big Robert move. The dynamic between Ned and Kat does feel like a couple suddenly like having to host another few people for like a surprise dinner party. Right.

Especially because we don't have that time for him. It feels so urgent as opposed to actually being a royal affair. Between the way that they gossip about the guests and be like, oh, my God, we have to get like the plates and everything ready. That's the mood here. Yeah. And I mean, that is the total trope right like the perfect housewife for example who somehow pulls together something at the last second is a really big comedy trope even so it has it has those feelings and coming back to what you were saying about kind of the familiarity and the formality of John Aaron for Ned versus Catelyn right when they talk about the kids he specifically says she speaks about her sister

and the kids and he specifically says your sister and John's kids oh interesting so there's almost even a tone of ownership of that like for him he looks at them as john's kids and he looks at john as the familiar person in the relationship and for her liza is her familiar person and she like you have said kind of has projected her emotions onto that relationship she wasn't that far off since you know liza poisons him but she's projected her emotions onto it so she doesn't take familiarity with john absolutely and maybe it's that familiarity and the projecting and i also wonder if like beyond the implications of things like does i mean that's just closer to john as you were saying and i wonder if there's an extent of which ned thinks of robert aaron as john's child because he's also

thinking of like the whole inheritance thing and what's going to be on that kid's shoulders which does become a subject of discussion but we talked about that long long ago two years ago 118 episodes ago actually more than that oh my god the queen's brothers are also going to be in attendance cadeline tells ned this and he grimaces because he does not really love the queen's family there's little love between them the lannisters had come late to robert's cause when the victory was already guaranteed ned had never forgiven them but he says so be. He'll deal with an infestation of lions. Where the king goes, the realm follows, she said. It will be good to see the children. The youngest was still sucking at the Lannister woman's teeth the last time I saw him.

He must be, what, five by now? Prince Tommen is seven, she told him. The same age as Bran. Please, Ned, guard your tongue. The Lannister woman is our queen, and her pride is said to grow with every passing year. Ned squeezed her hand. There must be a feast, of course, with singers, and Robert will want to hunt. I shall send Jory south with an honor guard to meet them on the king's road and escort them back. Gods, how are we going to feed them all? On his way already, you said. Damn the man. Damn his royal hide. Info dump, info dump, info dump!

Yeah, there's so much in that, right? I think that last passage says so much about the relationships between the Lannisters and the Starks, And of course, how Ned sees these other children and he kind of, you know, sees them as infants in his mind, and they've continued growing, but yet he does the opposite to his kids and rushes them to grow up,

which I thought was very interesting. Especially when you're looking at Tommen versus Bran, right? Both little kings, so to speak, are little princes right now. Prince in the north and prince in the south. I love that line, though. Where the king goes, the realm follows, especially as Rob will soon pick up his pilgrimage as we get toward the end of the story right in the Game of Thrones. Where the king goes, the realm follows, and most of the north goes off and dies for rob for ned that's really interesting because that is catelyn's last chapter right in this book so her story starts off with news of a king and ends with news of a king in this book interesting yeah

cat's a foundational character i think for setting up, a lot of the plot in the story. You get perspective from all sorts of people, kings, from different POV characters, right, that you see along the way. I just think, like, she has these very interesting intersections. Arya might be the other close one on, like, the best for lore, world building, etc. They just, like, you learn so much about the Song of Ice and Fire world through her lens, though. Absolutely. lens though absolutely and some of it is like you said uh the age that the royal family is and also also some of that characterization of cersei right even before we meet her cat's telling us this and part of it is not just that exposition of of those characters it also

tells us a little bit about catelyn and her own politicking, right? You pointed out earlier, Sansa knowing the sigils and Arya knowing how to interact with different kinds of people. This is Catelyn having stayed abreast of the news in the kingdom because that is important to their house to know the age, right? And to display those courtesies

when people like the royal family comes. Yeah, I mean, my parents, my mom is very much the administrative of the two you know like my dad probably love him to pieces but if he had to pay bills on his own i don't know i don't know what he'd do it would he would really struggle you know my mom is the person that keeps the shit straight so that's how i kind of put that in my mind you know like cadeline knows the eggshells she has to step on to get shit done in the household she knows where she needs to push she knows where she needs to pull back on a little bit and stop this chapter showed that especially with that letter and how she delivered the news especially it's kind of sad that jory gets mentioned here

because jory is actually going to go down greet the Lannister and Baratheon party, including the Queen's brothers, with an honor guard. And later he goes down to King's Landing and dies at the Lannister's hands. In the streets. Damn. In his blood. Damn. Yeah. But he went down with an honor guard to get him.

That is sad and fuck. Talk about guest right, eh? Or guest wrongs is what is happening here. Two guest wrongs don't make a guest right. They really don't. Well, not according to

I was going to say Wyman Manderly, but technically he did not break guest rights. He was very careful to find the loopholes. Yes, he was. Wyman Manderly for lawyer. Want that man to be my lawyer. You know, we did have Clint voice him from the Learned Hands podcast. It's perfect. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Otherwise, I love that this feast is described as Sansa bait, right? You have the singers right down to all the majesty coming to Winterfell that now he's like, ah, we have to bring out all the craziness. But the other thing that stuck out here is Robert will want to hunt. And then the very end, damn the man, damn his royal hide. Because that is, is of course what does robert in in the end well the cousin with the wine maybe but uh other than the wine the boar the the hunting of the boar and wanting to go hunting he ends up getting his own hide tanned

by a boar that is is for sure. Absolutely. Ned doesn't know what he's saying here. He doesn't quite know that, yes, Robert is damned. They all are. Everyone in this chapter is damned. I mean, everyone's damned, really. Motherless damned. Oh my god.

Well, that is, I think, a wrap on Catelyn I, right? An introduction to Catelyn Stark, nae Tully, and Catelyn I, Game of Thrones. And an introduction to a lot of Westeros, too. And to many more. Yes. There's going to be a lot more Catelyn chapters, so I think that this is a good place to stop for us. And obviously, gonna get we're gonna dive deep to her chapters much later on yes we'll be testing those waters and if you want to make sure you hear all about those waters being tested you should be following us on social media that is girls gone canon on twitter c-a-n-o-n or you have thoughts, if you want to send us a several

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I think I started hitting a couple of them there. There's more. I think you got some, Eliana. You hit a few. And just look it up on Google if you can't find us. We'll be there. And if all that fails, make sure you run over to patreon on patreon.com slash girls gone canon you can also listen to our episodes there there's actually a private rss feed that you can hook up and you get all your episodes

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that matters to me that's all you care about and once a month we also have brunch slash happy hour where we play some jackbox games or do a potluck presentation style powerpoint party wow say that 10 times fast and uh just have a blast we have fun on discord sometimes we stream games whatever just hanging out enjoying company so come on over patreon.com slash girls gone canon we'd be happy to have you yeah and i've been glad to see you know as you said we are probably going to do jackbox games for this month's brunch and happy hour we had a suggestion because chloe put together a poll as to what activity people wanted to do this month uh perhaps we play jackbox

games and cry it is once again march march sadness, that's great. March sadness for Pisces season. And also, you know, it's been a year since a lot of things have happened in our world. But anyway, so yes, as you said, there are channels for streaming and people have started streaming themselves playing games. We have some people streaming themselves playing The Sims that are not you, Chloe. playing games we have some people streaming themselves playing the sims that are not you chloe and other people streaming themselves playing um mountain blade of the with the game of thrones mods and a couple of the other other games um so yeah that's been pretty cool yeah keep it up we love that i love to watch that so we'd be glad to have you and glad to watch you stream your games yes well as always i have been one of your hosts catalan tully number one oh my god and i have

been another one of your hosts version two lady stoneheart oh my god. Delete. Delete. Control alt delete. Alt F4. Oh my god. This is a mess. Is that not what you were going for? We have to go back. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you all next week. Bye. Bye.