Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 119 - AGOT Catelyn II

Episode Date: March 12, 2021

What's in the box, Catelyn? The plot. Marital problems. Lies. Mostly the plot.  --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl] Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, A Song of Ice and Fire, episode 119, total episode 169. Nice. Catalin 2 in a Game of Thrones. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. I am another one of your hosts, Eliana, and wow, I didn't know actually how many total episodes we had, so that's pretty exciting. I've been waiting for that moment, A. B, a friend of ours on Twitter last week said that we needed to include some sort of spicy Dornish pepper system for lewd content. And I just wanted to reiterate that we are lewd. That was your warning.

I mean, I think that the comment was more like, is it an episode of Girls Gone Canon if it's not a little lewd? And you know what there's no way that this episode's not gonna be because mom and dad mom and dad fuck yeah they make sweet fucks that's how they made so many children there's a great point maybe a really sad depressing point that was made on the discord earlier this week that i'm like two years younger than catelyn now at this point oh yeah let's not i'm not i mean i'm not decrepit and ancient like you but yeah i'm like i'm about to fall apart i'm two i'm also about to fall apart but you're you're two years old yeah you are the opposite you know i'm two years younger than you're two years old yeah basically oh i'm the rickon of this shit

and i love it i love not rickon roll dumb bitch rick and roll oh my god do a rick and roll well that's our fun email tweet and note this week we didn't get much because i think it's just so fish out of water new POV we'll definitely have to bring back and showcase some of the stuff we have on Discord from some of our friends who are saying some wonderful things, some really great conversation happening, it's been very thoughtful very provoking, I think a lot

of discussion, there's some non-believers some Catalan non-believers but you know what? we've got a long POV ahead of us buckle up we do actually we we do have this is our this is one of the longest longer povs that we've done not the longest of course that's john yeah but oh my god it was so long it's crazy to think that it was also now kind of so long ago right like i think it was over a year ago now that we did Jon. Sometimes it feels like it was really recently, but we've gone through so many characters since then.

And here we are at Catelyn. Yeah, but you know what? Jon, but not forgotten. We're going to do a lot of talking about Jon today in this Catelyn episode. Nothing? There's nothing that didn't provoke anything from you john but not forgotten okay uh and instead of gone but not yeah i got it it took me a second and then i was like i got it i got it i'm proud of you hired hired my whole thing is that i have to have uh attention for

my behavior i seek attention eliana if you don't gratify me what's gonna become of me i pointed this out when some of our friends over on the history of the mcu podcast which if any of you haven't checked it out yet go check it out chloe has been on quite a few episodes but this is prior to i think the recording of maybe their first minisode that i think chloe makes secretly more puns than i do and i think you you think that too and yet and yet i am vilified for it wrongfully as some other characters are wrongfully vilified throughout throughout uh you know at life well speaking of that let's jump into our lightning round before Catelyn 2 today, which our lightning round today opens up with Daenerys 1. The exiled princess Daenerys Targaryen prepares to be presented to the Dothraki Khal Drogo, and her brother, King Viserys, prays for a marriage to be made.

to be made. Eddard I, King Robert Baratheon, arrives at Winterfell and comes to ask Ned to do his duty to the crown that he helped win. Jon I, the majesty of a visit from the king in his court is not so magical for Jon Snow, who watches from the bastard's place. He makes an unlikely friend amidst everything. Absolutely, and that brings us to catelyn to a game of thrones catelyn receives a secret letter from her sister which ignites a

spark and brings ned face to face with some cold hard facts yes cold hard facts indeed but we actually start off catalan to pretty warm in a couple of ways winterfell is situated over natural hot springs which warm the stone walls and keep the earth and the glass gardens from freezing it could be the difference between life and death in the winter catalan's bed chamber is the hottest room in Winterfell. Yeah, it is. Her walls always warm to the touch, baths always steaming. It reminded her of home in Riverrun with her siblings, and it sounds nice to me.

That does sound nice, Riverrun as a child. And during I guess that time, we do find Catelyn musing on her fond memories with her siblings, right? It's this sort of time of innocence. And, you know, compared and contrasted with the Starks as the series goes on, I think it's really interesting to see that.

I think Ned almost never thinks about the memories of his brothers and sisters as children and spending time together. It's always really tinged with sadness. And then he's like, nope, nope, shove that memory down. Let's not think about that. He doesn't even really even think about Brandon, even though that's a wedge between him and Catelyn. He thinks a little bit about Robert, right? Who is very much like family to him as all of the beginning of A Game of Thrones stresses to us. And I think that, you know, we already did Ned long ago and have talked about him a lot. It's clear that Ned doesn't think about

his siblings because of the wounds after all these years. It's really painful, the memories, like he can't even touch them. Whereas Catelyn's siblings that she knew growing up, right? I mean, her two older brothers were, I think, too young, or maybe died before she did. Her youngest brother died so, so quickly quickly and during that childbirth she grew up with liza and edmure and she does think about them she doesn't really know that either of them have changed yet it reminds me a little of how we see sansa aria and even john maybe bran right they think a lot about their memories of their own siblings even though they themselves like ned know that their siblings

or think that their siblings are perhaps dead but they're willing to touch those memories and and especially those of their eldest brother rob whom who is dead like we all it was it was really heartbreaking it's going to happen in one of catlin's chapters right and everything was meant for rob and the way it was for brandon and they're both dead. But maybe because it's more recent, that death, like that the Stark children are willing to revisit those memories. And rather than it being so painful and them ruminating on it alone for years and years, they're still able to draw strength from the memories of their family. they're still able to draw strength from the memories of their family. That's a great point. Catelyn's connections with her family, it's interesting because we don't get to see those connections, right? We have to rely a lot on these memories.

George is doing a great job of world building with those memories and giving us different things from her childhood as well as kind of telling you, hey, other parts of the world exist and these are part of them. I do think about Bran chapters and i'm so excited to read them with you eventually because he just has the sweetest memories about his family always about how like well sansa likes kissing stories and aria's always showing off and about rob he he has this this dream about flying and how he's like man rob wouldn't believe me if i told him about this and i could teach him you know I could teach him to fly. I could teach Arya to fly, Sansa to fly, even Jon, even baby Rickon.

I could teach them all to fly and we could just be crows. We could be ravens in Maester Luwin's rookery, he thinks. And it's just such a sweet, sad sentiment from a boy who's coming into these magical powers. That bond that they share and seeing that kinship is so nice because you imagine that ned had that kind of bond and this this chapter in general is so hard knowing what happens in the future you're filled with that sense of doom and we're coaxing ned out of his trauma shell the entire chapter robert just visited right ned is coming off a whole

ass trip where he had to subdue all of these parts of him that wanted to blurt out the truth to his best friend quote unquote about liana with the baratheon court and then some in attendance he knew he could not game of thrones more like game of cabinets because this guy is compartmentalizing you know we're going to talk about that a lot in this chapter and it tells us a lot about catalan's psyche but also about how ned's psyche informs it on your first read you just realize it's a marriage with issues you know you're like oh that's too bad mom and dad still have sex but man there are some issues between them. And then on your several reread, you realize, oh, it's just all coded in trauma. Yeah, it's hard.

He's reminded of Robert, right? This whole trip and this whole conversation with Catelyn. He's reminded of the murder of the Targaryen children, the loss of his family. His fourth chapter does a lot to kind of again inform this chapter as well in contrast with catalan one he's told kind of the truth of cersei's behavior from robert's mouth but shrugs it off in ways right as oh locker room talk just some humor and catalan and catalan one tells him i hear the lannister woman gets more and more prideful by the end of this chapter he's admitted holy shit the lannisters are monsters cat yes what don't you get about it i already know

i just didn't want to say it it's uncouth you know like i can't say it i'm not allowed to say that uh there's just so much beneath the surface that catalan's like peeling the trauma bandages off of and we get so close that it makes sense george parts them as the happy couple because had you left them together their communication would only prosper and they would eventually figure it out together you know like they're that kind of couple that they would end up communicating in this chapter alone as we go through it we're going to see all these moments ned almost breaks uh they would be unstoppable but this is a sad story and not a triumphant story yet so they don't make it out as we know fully

kind of no it's complicated no they don't and i think something that you said earlier really struck me about how um yeah i mean it's a chapter where robert's here and we're seeing here at the beginning that it's all about the connections that dead and catlin both have with their families right in this chapter we're going to discuss as you said the moments the moment that will lead to their families splitting apart physically but not necessarily emotionally but it's also because they're torn and being pulled right their heartstrings are being pulled by other members of their other families right here we see that cat is pliable to liza as her family and of course ned his other

family that he chose out of love so yeah a lot going on here and before we get there though you know before we get there let's roll it back right let's talk about some of that dornish pepper good stuff that was brought up in the tweet because Ned could never abide the heat and things are hot right now in Catelyn's room real hot Ned of course says that oh for sure he says that the Starks were made for the cold and Catelyn would always laugh and say that they built their castle in the wrong place as you said chloe you know they would have worked it out eventually eventually it's taken 14 years but another steamy thing that is happening right now though again ned and cat and i mean it's not starting it is ending right ned is rolling off he's like hell yeah he just nutted and he's climbing from her bed and he goes to pull

back the tapestries and let in the cool air and i'd want to remind everyone and the book reminds us of this right granted of course the windows are kind of thin so maybe no one can see but maybe they can because ned goes to the window throws back the curtains and he's naked all right ned's just like letting it all hang out there he's like winterfell here i am y'all thought he was shy he is not you know how like two chapters ago he was like winterfell is yours your grace and now he's like winterfell's my grace take a look at this robert my face isn't the only thing that's long. No, but, you know, not in this moment,

because here, Catelyn thinks that Ned looks smaller and more vulnerable now. Maybe she means his demeanor, but maybe she means that Ned's a grower and not a shower. Not the time, Eliana. Now is not the time. How is now not the time? This is what we're finding out about. Well. It was a good sesh is the whole gist here right she thinks that ned looks younger like the man she married back at

river run her loins ached from the urgency of his lovemaking but a good ache they had a good she prayed maybe she could give him another son it had only been three years since she gave him rickon again not that old just older than eliana which is pretty i'm just kidding i'm sorry she could have another child she could she could have another child and it's really sad because it's like i'm like how do i word this better this heartache is so sad uh cadeline is like what can i give this man how can i keep our flame lit continually how can i be of value to him i could still give him one more child because that's westerosi love language right to give heirs that's what she's expected to do that's what she was bred to do and knowing what happens to obviously rob and hell brands fall

although the rest look like there's hope right like we look like good things were on the horizon someday for the stark kids eventually it's just sad that she dies there it's sad that she thinks maybe she can do good here and be of value and dies thinking all her kids are dead but it's also sad because like what happens after that you can't just keep having kids catalan yeah and i mean it's a risk for her each time right that is how her mother died constantly trying to bear heirs and it's almost died trying to absolutely absolutely and you know as you said her kids all die before her and part of it is maybe she also had takes great joy in being a mother and it's something that i wonder if we'll talk about one day if we ever decide to talk about aliceanne and jahari is right because

aliceanne's another figure for whom so many of her children died before she did uh catherine you know at least zombie cat maybe she'll find out like wow amazing my kids are alive that's that's a real treat except for the part where you're dead and everything's terrible and you thought that they were dead like a lot of a lot of things happened before then but absolutely she gets some peace but yeah maybe some mercy mercy mercy mercy. Technically Chloe already published this. I know that we kind of hinted at it last time,

but I'm going to keep avoiding actually telling people what it is until she wants to. For now, Ned declares that he's going to refuse Robert. He will refuse him, turning his back on her. His eyes are haunted and his voice is thick with doubt. And Catelyn says that he can't. He must not. He argues that his duties are in the North and he has no wish to take a hand job uh again he's a he's already finished he's not he's not thinking like that's what he wants right now um but ketlyn says robert's

not gonna understand that and ned's like that's why i'm standing at this window and then ketlyn explains kings are not like other men she explains that if he doesn't accept sooner or later robert will suspect that he's against the crown yeah she's not wrong she's not wrong robert yeah robert's quite changed and she's not wrong uh ned's insistent though he's like robert would never harm me or any of mine. We were closer than brothers. He loves me. If I refuse him, he will roar and curse and bluster. And in a week, we will laugh about it together.

I know the man. You knew the man, she said. The king is a stranger to you. Catelyn remembered the dire wolf dead in the snow. The broken antler lodged deep in her throat. She had to make him see once more we get the omen of the broken antler and i kind of love the ambiguity of it in this sentence it says catalan remembered the dire with dead in the snow the broken antler lodged deep in

her throat she had to make him see so the way the sentence flows it's obviously that the antler is in the dire wolf however it flows straight into she had to make him see connecting her to the dire wolf right and it's representative of catalan a lot in this chapter she must carefully select her words hold the ones that she craves to send forward like arrows back uh she has to hold still and just wait as ned puzzles certain things out and push at the right time when maester luin pulls and obviously the antler in the dire wolf mom is an obvious metaphor for the baratheon lannister interference that kind of comes and brings the pain to house stark but it's actually pretty literal uh it's a literal representation

for catalan here right because she's unable to voice her true thoughts and voice her own throat her own throat is being cut into rendering her unable to speak right now because of robert's love for ned and liana clouding ned's vision for his family in the long run and of course all all of this revolving around john and kind of that uh lack of communication going on there just a bit and of course, all of this revolving around Jon and kind of that lack of communication going on there just a bit. And of course, later, this same antler is kind of connected in that she becomes the dire wolf mom once more with the antler in her throat, unable to speak, leading kingsmen, right? Baratheon antlered kingsmen or ex-kingsmen as mother merciless unable to speak and it's it's rough because ned here is finally being called out on robert right on his loyalty to this guy who really isn't

that great of a dude and that's kind of his whole thing for a game of thrones robert would never hurt me or my kin slash john would he now he spends the rest of the book trying to understand the truth of if his friend's in danger or if his friend is a piece of crap and then he falls but of course Ned kind of knows the truth again there's a lot that happened in Ned's first chapter right he hates Tywin and he thinks no he knows Tywin's a child murderer and that children are unsafe with Tywin. He thinks that in his very first chapter. He then hears from Robert that Sweet Robin will never be the man John Aaron was and does not hope to help secure Sweet Robin's future as Warden of the East. Robert doesn't see the child as politically fulfilling.

east robert doesn't see the child as politically fulfilling hands off the title likely to jamie and ned notices robert is using children like coin the familial alliance between john robert and ned is supposed to be ironclad right john went out for them john was like those are my sons i'm not letting them get their asses taken by the king. This conversation here proves that Robert's not honoring that alliance anymore. Robert is not looking out for Sweet Robin to that extent. He claims he can't because of the Lannisters and because Lysa's taken him away from them. However, Robert is still not looking out for him to that extent. He even says his son will succeed to the Eyrie in all its incomes no more. That took Ned by surprise he stopped startled and turned to look at his king the words came unbidden that's pretty big

right like that's a pretty big moment the ned's like wait what the fuck do you mean you're not taking care of john aaron's kid that's like your one job dude that's like what this was about but what happens if ned dies then that was john aaron's only true born son what happens to ned's true born kin well we see some of it right in the baratheon reign but this is also all before robert says sansa should marry joffrey which ned then sees this is coin for loyalty sansa is blood for coin right just as we discussed the idea with quentin and doran and malario for example of how angry she was of her child being sold off this is bigger shit than just what's been hanging out at winterfell in those beautiful walls in the snow having a good time in the glass gardens this This is a lot bigger. His chapter actually ends like Catelyn's first chapter, right?

All of the eyes on him of the Starks this time. Catelyn has all the eyes of the Weirwood on her, but Ned actually ends with the eyes of the Starks in the crypts in his chapter, staring at him, and he can feel them and feel them listening, and that winter is coming. Ned has pretty strong thoughts about robert baratheon in his very first chapter for a guy that is sitting here going robert's a good guy he's my friend i'm just saying pretty strong thoughts about everything about him yeah he has

gut feeling but he's not willing to listen to it because as you said he grew up with robert as his brother and again as you said robert's not taking care of Robert Aaron. And in one way, Robert Aaron's like his nephew, right? But also, Robert Aaron is also very much like his brother if John Aaron is his adopted father, right? How can he not take care of his namesake? And maybe that's just the track record of Robert, right? As we find out this chapter, Robert has many bastards, did not necessarily take good care of his namesake and maybe that's just the track record of robert right like as we find out this chapter robert has many bastards did not necessarily take good care of them and this is

just how robert treats his family we see he kind of treats ned like shit quite a bit later on but that's what he did to renly that's why he did what he did to stannis that's why stannis has so much like trauma from his own like stuff with robert. And Robert just lets his family down, all of them, including the ones that are supposed to be his true-born children. Yeah, the ones that really need it. The ones that are supposed to, you know, inherit the whole kingdom. He can't do that. Besides the ones that got, like, straight-up fuck-them-kids-murdered-by-Cersei,

you know, besides those ones by the Joff-Cersei coalition there. He didn't do anything to secure them. I mean, the ones that are alive. Yeah, the ones that are alive, those ones are, well, Gendry's a little rough around the edges, but the rest of them are alright. Maya good. Maya's

great. Yeah. I believe in Maya. I have too. And Bella seems to be happy with her life. Isn't that all that matters in the end? I think it is. I think, you know, Bella's pleased. Maya is for the most part pleased. Gendry has a lot of, I think, angst.

But, you know, he's also in the middle of having witnessed a lot of killing and war and stuff. But whatever. Catelyn recognizes all this and says to ned that pride is everything to a king and robert has come all this way to bring ned honors he can't just throw them in his face and ned bitterly laughs out honors honors catlin repeats and he's like in your eyes or and then catlin says that it's an honor in Robert's eyes. And Ned's like, is it an honor in your eyes as well? And she's like, well, yeah. And she thinks it.

Why couldn't he see? But of course, I am reminded of one of our friends, Salador Stan, our Salador Stan account here at Girls Gone Canon. Yep, we are. And I have to say, he will kill you with these honors, my friend. Absolutely. And I mean, Robert and and edward kind of talk about it anyway because robert's like yeah i'm bringing you so you can clean up my shit uh that's like oh awesome i think i already did that when you know we were teenagers but whatever holding robert's here back yeah and cadlyn explains that robert means to marry the future king to their daughter and which means duh ned that sansa might someday be queen and that's

like but sansa's only 11 and joffrey is and she finishes this sentence crown prince and heir to the throne don't go talking treason in our bedroom and ed and then she reminds him that she was only 12 when she had been promised to brandon she's like maester lewin's cool but he's still a fucking cop okay he's still a narc all right you hear him narc big narc maester lewin uh but that doesn't so much wrong maester lewin's i love maester lewin i do do too. I do too. As we go forward, there are some really good Maester Luwin moments in this. You know, Ned's push to keep the kids. Oh my god.

We're not even that sad. We can't be sad yet. I'm already so sad about that. About actually everything. Everything's so sad. Ned's push to keep the kids from growing up too fast is showcased once again we do see it afforded a little differently for john and we'll discuss that later but this this

makes me saddest right because of course the last northern girl who ran off with a crown prince that that ned knew dot dot dot absolutely died bitch died it was his sister and she dead your sister yeah it's a that's relevant now in these chapters oh my god we get a passage between ned and catelyn that brought a bitter twist to ned's mouth brandon yes brandon would know what to do he always did it was all meant for brandon you winner fell everything he was born to be a king's hand and a father to queens i never asked for this cup to pass to me perhaps not caitlin said but brandon is dead and the cup has passed and you must drink from it like it or not ned turned away from her back to the night there's a lot of ned turning away and i think he's just going back to the window each time i've never been told that he put clothes back on. He does it like five times this chapter.

I have a take on it later, I promise. Is it that Ned's an exhibitionist? Because I think that's the only take that I have. I have two takes that are not that. Are you sure? I think that's the only take. Two types of people. Two types of people in this world. Maybe three.

Maybe three. Well, other kinds of people are uh people who fit biblical analogies right uh long long ago we talked about how ned stark died for our sins and the parallels between ned's visit to the godswood and jesus's own visit to the garden of jeseminy right ned's daughter's falling asleep and all of Jesus' disciples falling asleep. So it's interesting here that both Ned and Kat are using the language regarding this responsibility of, I never

asked this cup to pass to me, and Kat saying back, the cup has passed. Because the language in Jesus' prayer at Gethsemane slash the Mount of Olives prior to his crucifixion was, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless nevertheless not my will but thine be done so of course i think it's pretty straightforward the cup is symbolizing the

suffering and the burden of this responsibility but it also you know starts showing us like yo ned's gonna die for our sins through that parallel but also going off of what you were saying chloe about catlin's insistence i do think that part of it has as much to do with how Catlin was raised and her maiden house words, family duty, honor, as everyone knows. Catlin demonstrates the case for accepting the hand position as Ned's responsibility to his family in terms of the position that this is a duty to fulfill to one's kingdom and again back to his family right in their station but also perceives that robert will think of this as a great honor and that the position in general for most people is considered a pretty big honor that's why a lot of people like want it that's why like axel thorn's such a huge dick about wanting it in the next chapter we'll see that kat reverses her position regarding whether or not ned should take this job after brand's injury and she begs ned not to go and when she does so she's leaning very much into

the first of those words family that everything is different now and ned must stay showing the importance of family to her and it sets the stage for cat's later actions right especially when it comes to freeing jamie where family the safety of her daughters is the main motivation and it sets the stage for cat's later actions right especially when it comes to freeing jamie where family the safety of her daughters is the main motivation and it's something that she actually shares with ned uh which could be why they were able to see eye to eye in many things but also part of why their ways of uh protecting their family differ the how of how they do it differs but it matters so much to them that it that love of family drives them to so many different things yeah that's a great way to put it all together because no matter what they love

their family and they want to protect it even if they don't see that same exact way and again had they just gotten to stay together but duty calls duty calls and ned is back to staring out into the darkness and catelyeline softens because she can see his pain he had married her in his brother's place and as the custom decreed but the shadow of brandon lay between them and the shadow of the woman who ned wouldn't name who had born his bastard son to him she's about to go to his side but a knot comes to the door ned asks what it is and desmond says maester lewin is without and begs their audience ned slips on a robe and catalan realizing how cold it is pulls the fur blankets up to her chin she mentions they should close the windows and he

does as lewin is showed in so there you go happy, Eliana? You get to hear that the windows are closed. I don't mind. I think Ned's unhappy. That's Ned's kink. Besides the hair pulling. That's also Catelyn's thing. That's also Catelyn's kink. It was only funny last time you

did it again for at least three books. You can't do it for two books. Well, I have to do it until she dies, you know, because it all leads up to that moment. That's the line. We're going to just take all the emotional impact out of this really beautiful, poignant line. I'm going to ruin everything.

Things that are not ruined. George's use of imagery. He does this really wonderful thing here in this chapter where he's using temperature to indicate the shift in mood right the the chapter opens with the warmth of winterfell and setting kind of doing some world building around that but it is strange here right for lewin to insist on an audience with such urgency and cat as we have seen throughout these past two chapters already is very intuitive that it suddenly becomes so cold without much really

changing in the room is both due to the strained nature of her and ned's conversation just now but also that we can sense that this moment feels wrong and that shift in temperature tells the audience something is a little wrong through catlin's interiority besides that she pulls the furs to her chin which is her way of remembering decorum and almost covering herself in line with social norms which i mean most people don't go around being naked around most other people even in our own world and that makes her actions later on in this chapter much more heightened in contrast and maester luin is adorable though he's the best part of this scene right it's interesting how you

describe that because it's like the starks are like every family in Game of Thrones that you should expect to be, you know, a hardcore political. I'm a big political player. I'm a Lannister. I'm a Highgardener. I'm a Tyrell, whatever they are called. You know, I don't care about them. But the Tyrells, the Starks are like, they're like the good one that you're supposed to root for you know they're they're the good guys and everyone in the starks camp is different right like maester lewin is a good maester he's not like the bad maesters that we hear about later from barbary dustin right he's like ah maester lewin's different although we do learn some of his appeals are a bit different as far as like what he teaches Bran

and he doesn't believe in as much magic, right? He's all like, no, science and books, not magic. Bran, that's not the way. I just find it so interesting that everyone in the Stark camp is like, they're not like everyone else. Sometimes it can be a little like Mary Sue in some manners. Like, oh, they're the best person in the world, but sometimes it fine uh kind of cute but maester luwin is adorable right so it's like it's totally worthwhile he's kind of the ornery no magic cute old man he's small he's gray-eyed

and gray-haired so barbara dustin often you know says she said the maesters are like rats and here he looks like one but a very cute rat. Very cute. He's in stark gray and white robes with floppy sleeves full of hidden pockets, always stuffing with books, messages, and toys for the children. Catalin's surprised he can lift his arms at all with those sleeves. Dude, is Maester Leon, like, secretly swole from just carrying toys around all the time he's like super strong santa but yes as you said i mean he is very lovable and i think that's part of the point right because we're all like what maester luan is so good how can you say that barbary dustin and that's part of the turning um and and subverting of our expectations and

you know as it goes special barbary says pretty much and i mean and i think lewin plays an important role not just in cat's chapters but of course in brands and for me i think one of my favorites is of course the role that he plays for brand and them and so if you see him when they're part of winterfell but the role that he plays in theon's chapters and we discussed that during Theon's chapters that he does yes genuinely give Theon good advice he's like I don't know why the fuck you're doing this and I do still love you but you need to chill well and it's interesting you say that because he kind of plays this role a moral compass role in this scene too he and Kat it almost reminds me of Davos and Mel being the angel and devil on

stanis's shoulders but here catalan and lewin flank ned but they actually come at him from both sides right they both have kind of the same thought process of what they should do and what the right thing to do is but they believe it for different reasons maester lewin's like well this is the traditional thing of what you should do and catal Catalan's like, well, I'm thinking shrewdly here that we have to do this, otherwise our family's fucked. And they kind of come at it from different angles. But it does seem without Lewin there, Catalan will be pushing a boulder, practically. You know, like she wouldn't probably be getting quite as far.

Or it might be the opposite. She might exactly get much farther. But I don't know. I think there's something interesting here with how Lewin's being framed with those sleeves as well. Because later on in A Dance with Dragons, we learned Melisandre's robe is also used to hold things. And that feels really prominent here, right? Like he doesn't have potions or magic up his sleeves, because that's not the kind of guy he is. But he has own brand of magic yes and he's someone who has been sort of adopted into the family we'll see that later this chapter maester lewin waits until the doors close to spill the news before telling catlin and ned

that he's received a new mirror lens in his observatory which actually it was very mysterious because there was no rider it was left in a carved wooden box and likely brought by someone in the king's party and we have this line of under the heavy weight of her furs catlin shivered a lens is an instrument to help us see indeed it is oh i don't know if that was my lewin but i don't know I think it was but I loved it thank you we're gonna have to refine it but you know once we get to Bran someday no sweat

I love how meta that was right like a lens is an instrument to help us see specifically this absolutely it turns out Lewin found a false bottom in the wooden box but the message was not for his eyes Ned's like alright well hand it over for Maester Lewin box, but the message was not for his eyes. Ned's like, all right, well, hand it over, Maester Lewin.

And he's like, it's not for your eyes either. It's for the Lady Catelyn. What a twist. Oh, first of all, got him. Got him, Ned. It's not for you. It's not for your bitch ass head. It's not for you.

It's not for you. Second of all, though. Second of all. I really like the way this is a weird distinction and so hear me out i like the way that he says it's for the lady catalan because it actually and there's a lot of things in this chapter specifically that give this vibe off and i'm sure other people have called this out before but catalan gives off very lady jessica vibes from dune especially in comparison to the 1993

outline pitch letter it is obvious that george had a little bit of inspiration in his times of uh mr herbert and especially whomst the sandworm who literally wrote dune but in the outline she goes north with brand to try to protect her weird third eye child, right, until she dies. And it's very Dune-esque. I'm not going to spoil the plot too deeply, but even in traditional science fiction and fantasy and different high fantasy stories, you get kind of the one-dimensional female mother character, right? We see a lot of this throughout the story in other ways. female mother character right we see a lot of this throughout the story in other ways catalan and jessica's characters have that bad omen cassandra motif happening early on and they end up constantly being proven right in the face of the kind but also kind of stupid

idiot father who dies you know like the guy who's like you tried your best but you were doomed from the start my friend they both have their own intelligence networks right jessica's is a little more mystical but they both have different intelligence networks which is kind of what this represents lewin shows up and says oh this is from catalan's intelligence this is not for you ned this is her own thing it shows that she does have leadership and she has kind of her own people rooting for her in some ways right she's not completely cut off from society without ned as we see both of these women were groomed and trained to be perceptive to this and practice these ambitions though again jessica is more divine

than catalan is in that aspect and lito and ned are both really representative of those great guys they have great leadership skills all their men really respect them lots of past trauma they're afraid to trust and they fuck up one or two major things that were pretty unavoidable to be fair and they die in some aspects the 93 letter and the idea of catalan's cool shrewd calculating logic facing magic beyond the wall is really appealing but in that same manner with what lady jessica plays in dune and her power catelyn accompanying brand is fun but i think the way that george works with that concept of what would king arthur's mother actually do is way better showing the political magic i mean i think it shows it's a dose of realism in the world of dragons you know what i mean that cattling can puzzle

things out and figure things out and be very politically apt and of course still die at the end but absolutely and i love that you pointed out that this is something that george intentionally wanted to explore what would king arthur's mother be thinking or what would what would the chosen one's mother be thinking but turns out i guess rob's not the chosen one she has like 20 000 other chosen one children though apparently um in different ways but yeah and as you said it's about her being able to puzzle things out ned isn't fond of doing that katelyn notes he that he doesn't like puzzles or hidden messages but katelyn immediately understands and as we saw it points out that the lens itself is a message. It's a symbol. And she reads what it means.

Same as she reads the other earlier omens about the antler and the direwolf that you were discussing. And she understands it quickly. Again, shivering, that use of temperature to indicate the mood once more. And that's confirmed that there's something ominous going here by Lumen's reveal. Ketlin's understanding of the symbols and reading the world around her is something that I think is passed on to her children, right? It's something that we see passed on to Sansa and Arya. It's something that's going to have to happen in Bran's own storyline because he's steeped in this idea of seeing things through

the language of symbols. That's how visions work. And another of course is sansa reading sigils to know everything that lies behind that what it means for the people and the politics and another is aria learning to listen and glean more from people's secrets and gossip and her children most of them deepen these sorts of skills as the series goes on i wanted to come back to that mirish lens that we see right or hear of uh the mirish lens that maester lewin has this is actually the only mirish lens we get until a dance with dragons the only only mirish lens throughout the story till a dance with dragons and in a dance with dragons we actually get mention of uncle roderick, Uncle Roderick, telling Asha he's sending for one, if you remember. And then Victarion also has one that gets brought up in his chapters,

but the only one that gets talked about till then. Interesting. It shows a lot of significance there. And Roderick, of course, kind of wants a Mirrish lens, right, to be able to read better. And that's something that we see here on a meta level with the story right katlin being one of our first lenses into reading the world building of westeros katlin knowing that the mirage lens is a symbol is telling the reader the importance of these kinds of symbols and omens and to read closely especially with the way that as our friend alex pointed out in their letter last episode that katlin's story is very much meta and integral to the part to the structure of the books and how it's playing with genre expectations and the many different ways that

Cat's story itself is also playing with many different kinds of genres something else that I find interesting is I also feel this is one of the best slash first views that we get of Maester Lewin as you were discussing and as cat and he agree that the lens does have a deeper meaning he fingers his own maester's chain and collar he does it actually quite a few times this chapter and that the collars are actually tight around his neck it tells us a little bit about the duality of the maesters as you were talking about the barbary dustin there's knowledge of course it comes with the forging of the chain and when it comes to things representing other things each link has another meaning right each

of those little chain links shows that luin is familiar with this idea of representation second dual meanings but also in a way it tells us then another symbol for the maester's chain is the servitude behind it and we're going to explore that a bit more one day with sam's anxieties about joining the citadel you know when you think about how they're stationed in this argument or this ongoing discussion and debate of what they should be doing in the face of everything with robert it's almost as if each of them has embodied one ideal, right? Lewin's ideal is serving, duty. Ned's ideal is honor, what the honorable thing is. And Catelyn's ideal is family. Yes.

Catelyn is shaking and she admits that she's afraid. Lewin attempts to retreat, but is commanded to stay. And she reaches to take the letter, the furs falling from her nude body. In blue was the moon and falcon seal of House Arryn. The message from liza catalan says it will not make us glad there is grief in this message ned i can feel it he tells her to open it at first it makes no sense to her but she realizes it's in a private language

she and liza created as girls. Kat can feel that there is grief in the box. Again, her intuition working. And then all this anticipation is built up, right? The box is for her. And then the book tells us just very simply, Katlin broke the seal. Katlin ends up being thrust unwittingly into the role of Pandora, opening the box that begins all of the sadness that ends up befalling her family.

And I wouldn't say this is really like cat's fault because she's tricked right it's hard when you're tricked but the framing of this moment is hearkening to another mythological woman set up to fail by the forces around her and i think it means so much more because of course she'd put a lot of weight into this message from liza it's in their secret language, right? When just moments ago, as the chapter opens, she was reminiscing about this wonderful childhood she had with her sister and her brother. Cat being put into that role of Pandora

and opening the box with everything coming out of it is so brilliant. I'm glad you connected it to this because that is what it feels like. First of all, what's in the box, right? That's my first thought. Second of all, it can be whatever you want, I guess, at this point, but we know what it in the box right that's my first thought second of all it can be whatever you want i guess at this point but we know what it is it's that letter uh it it kills

me that somehow peter balish used liza to this extent even to the point of exploiting something so sensitive between the two sisters their secret language what a betrayal what a master 40 chess player peter balish is just his power his mind really talented i see a bright future ahead for him anyways glossing over it bitch gonna die yeah i mean peter's manipulating everything but it comes back to what you were saying earlier about ned not realizing that his brother, in a way, Robert, has changed over the years. And doing this read through of Cat, it's interesting. Liza comes up in the first chapter. Liza comes up again here. We're going to see Liza in this book that she herself hasn't considered, like, what if my sister has also changed in all of these years right brendan warns her about it but she like ned is unwilling at first to believe it and when she sees it she's in disbelief

yeah i mean so is ned right it's jarring to find that out yeah i mean ned literally says in chapter four he's like this is not the man I once knew. He looks completely different. He's gained a bunch and he's sadder than before, which really. He's sadder and much more callous to the fates of children. Hardened. Lewin's like, I don't want to be here for this conversation. He ends up staying, but he tries to withdraw. And Catelyn's like, no, we're going to need your counsel. She throws back the furs that she was underneath. She climbs naked from the bed and

Lewin averts his eyes. And even Ned is a little secondhand man-bearist. Chloe wrote this term about her nudity and asks, oh my god, Cat, what are you doing? And I'm just like, Ned, Ned, with your dog in the window, Ned, what are you doing and i'm just like ned ned with your dog in the window ned what are you doing the double standards are outrageous here is all i'm saying you know what they are she's lighting a fire obviously and she shrugs into a dressing gown because men can't handle titties but they let their balls fly around everywhere all the time and he starts it and he's like maester lewin is here and you're like half naked and she's like maester lewin delivered all our children this is no time for false modesty right now ned really she puts the paper into fire she places heavier logs on it

and ned crosses the room himself asking what the message entailed yes and of course as she lights this fire right it's very much like how we talk about westeros in this moment westeros was like this also at the beginning of robert's rebellion it is a powder keg and this letter is a spark right there's all this tension that's been building over years of people's plots during robert's reign and when the news finally hits rather than a shiver in the cold as kat was feeling moments ago, Kat is about action. She's lighting a fire, she's warming herself up, and she's doing what she believes must be done. Now, I love this analysis, but I do want to argue that Kat didn't start the fire.

It was always burning since the world was turning. I really had you. I had you in the palm of my hand hand you were like potty and then get it together you gotta get some thicker skin i saw where it started going like as you were finishing that line i was like oh my god she's gonna do it to me isn't she she really is she was cadeline calls it a warning if they had the wit to listen li Liza says John Aaron was murdered by the queen. Everyone welcome. It is the plot.

The plot is here. It has arrived. Fanfare. Trumpets. Woo! Ned says Liza must be sick with grief, Kat. She can't know what she says, but Katalin disagrees. Liza must be sick with grief, Kat. She can't know what she says. But Katalin disagrees.

Liza's impulsive, but this message was too carefully planned and too cleverly hidden. She must have known this message meant death if the wrong person read it. I mean, she's not wrong. Yeah. These things are true. It was too carefully planned and too cleverly hidden on purpose to be believable. Yeah, that's true. I guess it doesn't matter because George

doesn't think it matters, but I was just curious like, who left this? I don't think he was thinking that far. I mean, the amount of detail in each book has ramped up as you go. You know, Game of Thrones detail is minimum and he wasn't thinking that far, but I'm like, I want to know who he has on the inside.

Yeah, I want to know know can you show me who left the box at catlin well lewin store whatever the point is i think you're right i think george is like i don't know someone left it he's like just someone there's like no reason to speculate some of these things i know everyone wants to know every detail at all times you know i am one of those people too so like i understand that but i guess my point is like i want to know who left it but it must not matter yeah oh well catalan looks to her husband and says now they have no choice he must be robert's hand and go south to learn the truth. Again, Catelyn is the family in this conversation. Ned has concluded the exact opposite. He thinks he should avoid the south and stay here.

Yes, and because there's all this meta commentary about reading, I think it's important that both Ned and Cat have read this message, right, somehow very differently because kat here is now very convinced that she is right she's like well obviously this letter means now ned must go to king's landing and he has to figure the mystery out can't he see but that's just her specific interpretation of events i don't think that's objective at all but it also means that whoever plotted all of this very much read catlin right and knew how she would react and how to play her but i think also part of that is like as you were saying right george is just like how he wasn't

thinking of who left the box he's just like this is the plot now they gotta do these things dry there's a lot of that in a game of thrones there's a lot of that in a game of thrones it's very structured like as far as like this happens this happens this happens and you can see where his writing has spiraled out a little differently into detail and into like now all of this could mean something or it could not smile and you won't know for over a decade. Maester Luwin plucks at his chain and interjects, The Hand of the King has great power. Power to find truth in his foster father's death.

To bring his killers to justice. To protect Lady Arryn and her son, if the worst is true. Ned glanced helplessly around the bedchamber catalan's heart went out to him but she knew she could not take him in her arms just then first the victory must be won for her children's sake i love this line so much what a fucking banger line that catalan's like nah you know what i put up with a lot of bullshit, Ned, but I'm sorry. You got to get there yourself on this one. I'm not doing it.

The victory's got to be won. I'm not caving. I have to keep my kids safe. I am keeping this family safe. Also, I mean, I did just put out, you know, like, don't do me like this right now, Ned. Don't do me like this. Yeah, absolutely. And she knows if she

shows him softness he might go soft right he might be like oh it's okay then she actually is playing this like a card game right her next card she's like you love robert like a brother would you leave your brother surrounded by lannisters yeah i think earlier earlier, and I wasn't thinking at the moment, you were saying that Ned's ideal, yes, is honor. But in practice, his ideal ends up being family. And that's what motivates him here, right? Because he says, it's what leads to his

death when he's like, I'm not, I'm gonna sacrifice my honor for Sansa, he sacrifices his honor for Jon. And here he says, the others take you all, he mutters, turning away and then he's silent for a few moments as kat and lewin wait and ned gives a silent farewell to his home he finally turns back his voice is tired and full of melancholy and the glitter of wetness in his eyes oh my god ned is crying yes so we'll talk about it in just a minute but it does seem that every single time he turns away it is to hide

tears and it is because ned can't meet cadeline's eyes because when he looks into her eyes he will either do a combination of things like a break down and cry b break down and tell her the truth after all of these years because it's built up and is weighing so heavily on him and he can't keep it in anymore he just had to keep it in from his best friend quote unquote he has to keep it in all the time everyone's cruel to john or everyone looks at him differently and all he can think is he doesn't deserve this and it's too much and it's a big a lot and anyways i digress every time he turns away from her in this conversation pay attention to what he's saying. Family, you know, would you leave your brother surrounded by Lannisters?

All he can think about are the Lannisters being the cause of those Targaryen children death. He turns away because he's thinking about those children wrapped up in the red cloth to hide the blood. Yes, absolutely. And it's not just that he's thinking about his own family right as we see in this passage his his blood family he says my father went south once to answer the summons of a king he never came home again a different time maester lewin said a different king. Yes, Ned said dully. He seated himself in a chair by the hearth. Catelyn, you shall stay here in Winterfell. His words were like an icy draft through her heart. No, she said, suddenly afraid.

Was this to be her punishment? Never to see his face again, nor to feel his arms around her? Yes, Ned said, in words that would brook no argument. You must govern the North in my stead while I run Robert's errands. There must always be a Stark in Winterfell. Rob is fourteen. Soon enough, he will be a man grown. He must learn to rule, and I will not be here for him. Make him part of your councils. He must be ready when his time comes. God's will, not for many years, Maester Lewin murmured. It's a few months.

Ah, God. Yeah, Ned not being able to meet Catelyn's eyes or Lewin's eyes. Yeah, Ned not being able to meet Catelyn's eyes or Lewyn's eyes. The other thing that's noticeable is that when he turns back after taking the moment to look away and collect himself, he comes back with the Lord's voice each time. Ned said in words that could brook no argument. Every time he comes back, it is the final definitive answer and it's pretty apparent because we get the flashback in a little bit here to cattle and remembering another time where ned's word was final on a subject that's true absolutely the lord's face we'll come back to that in a bit we know this now because it's a reread but both ned and kat are reacting to their experiences again with their own childhood families here, right?

It's Kat's ties with Liza and her memory of Liza that's part of why she goads Ned into going south. She trusts Liza through all that and their childhood language. But it's also Ned's loss of his family and memories of them that cause him to not want to go. Because it's, I mean, it's pretty straightforward. He's like, when Sarks go south we die right yeah and coming back to what we said the last chapter first chapter again i think it's important that ned trusts cat to run the household instead and be the one to raise rob as a leader we see that ned trusts her with a lot of responsibilities but also cat knows how to groom a lord as for a while hoster had also groomed her to be the lady of river run right so she knows how to handle this and i mean she's not the only lady

to ever be left in charge of their house in dire circumstances right i mean we see it with house glover as we discussed during davis's chapters lady sabelle glover right was in charge of deepwood mott but there is i think a lot of weight to the way that this exchange goes and the way that Ned trusts her. Yeah, there's a lot of trust. And in the North especially, right, we see that it's not just Catelyn able to step in, who specifically is groomed as heir, but the North's future is female, as we later see, because females are forced into that role. Ready or not, here your husband goes. He's dead. Yeah, that is

true. We see that with a lot of the northern houses. Ned also entrusts Maester Luwin with his family. Says that he trusts him as he would his own blood. Again, that extended family thing going on. And then I'm just, again, being sad about Maester Luwin, thinking about how he kind of dies because he

loves the Starkids and just being sad about it. But at least his blood goes into the Weirwood. Oh, yes. Helpful for Bran, right? Yum. Mmm. Baked oats. Oh my God, what are we talking about?

Ned asks Lewin to teach his son what he must know, and Catelyn finds the courage to ask finally what about the other children he holds her face in his hands and gives her Ricken but the others he must take there's a lot of interesting back and forth between Ned and Catelyn in this chapter in this one Catelyn and Ned have opposite tactics right right? She refuses to hold Ned until Ned agrees to what she says. Whereas Ned, in telling her what she doesn't want to hear, goes and holds her. Again, when it's something that's different from what she wants.

But at the same time, it's worth noting that the power dynamic is different here, right? Coming back to that Lord's voice, Cat cannot decide for Ned what Ned should do. Because, I mean, first of all, the job offer is in his name, but also he's the Lord and he's the man of the house. He holds the power, not just in Winterfell, but all of the North, right? Whereas when Ned goes to Kat with a decision that she does not like, you know, she can try to dissuade him as she does here when it comes to taking this job but ultimately ned gets to make that decision and cat though she does not agree with him as to which kids go and which ones do not she'll protest a little but she doesn't fight back that hard because in her mind as well as ned having all that power the societal rules that she grew up with tell her that this is in fact the best path for her children based on those rules i love that you brought up that he's the man of the house because he is this is his decision overall she's not the lord of winterfell she's

the lady of winterfell by marriage by proxy but she's not the lord of winterfell and she doesn't get to make those decisions and it's kind of a game of her crossing the line a little bit here and Lewin is there to reel back in and kind of provide that sensible other ground so that like she doesn't overstep her boundary as a lady. That's why she steps back and allows Lewin to kind of step in and say certain things

here and there that she can't and just holds her tongue and lets Ned get there because it's not her place and she knows that. Yes. And it is a ma place and she knows that. Yes. And it is a maester's place to advise. Yeah. And he's a man, so. Also that.

Also that. You know, there's something about just the frequency of the voice that I've heard. That scientifically they just hear each other better. It must be. It must be. It must be. Catelyn says she could not bear the children being taken. And Ned's like, well, you must.

He doesn't actually say it that way. He's much nicer about it because they have a relationship, right? But he explains that Sansa, as you say, Catelyn must wed Joffrey. Give no suspicion to their cause. And Arya must learn the ways of a southern court. Because he's like, you know, sooner or later or later she's gonna have to marry as well and Catelyn thinks that Sansa would shine in the south and Arya would get the refinement she needs yes and she thinks reluctantly she let go of them in her heart but not Bran never Bran there's so much talk in this chapter for her of letting go of her children and it kind of reminds me back way way back in the way back machine when we did sansa chapters and ned chapters even and

that kind of pairing between them where when ned kills lady or decides what must be done for lady i should say he he thinks about sansa that he disengages from her. And we see him literally disengage from her, right? And push her away after that moment. And it's so sad for her, for Catelyn, that she has to let go of her children. Especially as things progress, she continues and she lets go of Rickon, for example, more. Yeah, she does. And something interesting, right, is something you were comparing to earlier.

Like, her favorite of her children is her second son. Ned's a second son. And Malario's second child, right, gets put somewhere else. And she's like, that's it. That's enough for me. And she's like, I'm done with this. But Catelyn takes it. She accepts it.

She begs Ned, for the love he bears her, to leave seven-year-old Bran at Winterfell, but Ned says he was eight when he was fostered at the Eyrie, and Bran may be the ticket to smoothing the bad relationship growing between Joffrey and Robb. Ser Rodrik had told him all about this. Let him grow up with the young princess. Let him become their friend as Robert became mine.

Our house will be the safer for it. Was your house safer for being Robert's friend? Questions. Questions that I have. I will say though that, again, coming back to the back and forth that Ned and Cat have in this chapter, Ned turns the tables on Catelyn here using the exact same arguments that she used earlier on as to why Ned should go south in terms of what is good for their family, what is good for the royal family. And here he puts it in the terms of Joffrey and Robb's relationship as opposed to Joffrey and Sansa's, but it's most pointed in Cat resisting Bran's departure. And she says he's only seven. and Ned points out that he himself was eight he himself

just a year older when he was fostered at the Eyrie which compare that to when Ned was saying Sansa's only 11 she's too young to be betrothed and then Kat was like well she herself was betrothed at 12 also just a year older yeah and there are a couple other hypocrisies that they both kind of play with as we move forward that doesn't get called out as much that i will bring up in just a little so we'll come back to this for sure i don't know if it's a hypocrisy or if it's just like i mean it's like the same language yeah argument thing going it's like an argument like well you're a hypocrite because it's this and i'm right no you're wrong and he's this old and because you know what i mean like it's like that back and forth like alright hypocrite well

alright well maybe you're the hypocrite then and then it's like you guys are just gonna fuck again yeah they're gonna I mean they're gonna wait till you know Ned recharges and then they're gonna go at it again well I mean Lewin's still there I mean they gotta open the windows first right everyone's gotta see them

first before Ned can get it out oh my god Catelyn knew that Ned was right but it didn't make it hurt less only rob and rickon would be left to her she felt lonely already winterfell was a vast place she tells ned to keep bran off the walls he loves to climb and he kisses the tears from her eyes before they can fall thanking her and telling her he knows this is hard but maester lewin calls out the elephant in the room why maester lewin why ruins a sweet tender moment what of john snow and catelyn tenses up and Ned feels the anger and he pulls away immediately. Many men fathered bastards.

Catelyn had grown up with that knowledge. It came as no surprise to her in the first year of her marriage to learn that Ned had fathered a child on some girl Chance met on campaign. He had a man's needs, after all, and they spent that year apart. Ned off at war in the South while she remained safe in her father's castle at river run her thoughts were more of rob the infant at her breast than of the husband she scarcely knew does ned have needs like that i'm just saying i don't we don't know him apparently he has different needs like showy needs well he's a grower not a shower chloe chloe's like why did i agree to spend years of my life with this person this is marriage too

we're we're dealing with our own little hypocrisies and back and forth in this this episode um anyways katelyn knows that Ned would see to the child's needs, but Stark men are hashtag not like other men, and Ned did much more than just see to Jon's needs. He went a little too far above

and beyond for her. He brought Jon home, called him son, and then when the war was over, when the kid was already there and cat's like oh i got here and there's another kid here and i've got a kid and john and his wet nurse are already here and and for her that one hurt especially because ned wouldn't speak of the mother but of course i mean as anything like this rumors are out there they whispered of sir arthur dane the sword of the morning deadliest of the seven knights of

aries's kingsguard and of how their young lord had slain him in single combat and they told how afterward ned had carried sir arthur's sword back to the beautiful young sister who awaited him in a castle called starfall on the shores of the Summer Sea. The Lady of Sharadain, tall and fair with haunting violet eyes. It had taken her a fortnight to marshal her courage, but finally, in bed one night, Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face. That was the only time in all their years Ned ever frightened her. That was the only time in all their years Ned ever frightened her. Never ask me about Jon, he said, cold as ice.

He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now, I will learn where you heard that name, my lady. She had pledged to obey. She told him, and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again. Whoever John's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away. It's so sad. It's so sad. Because, like like it's neither of your faults all of you are so stupid they're all so dumb but they all love oh it's so sad and he did love her fiercely

it was his sister of course he did you love your sister but not like that it's the only thing catelyn can't forgive she loved ned with all her heart but she could never find it in her to love his bastard son john she could overlook a dozen bastards if they were out of sight as we see other women in the series do but john was always there and as he grew he looked more like ned than any of the sons she gave him so we see a little bit of that catlin that we were introduced to in the first chapter the one who's not afraid to be blunt to be straightforward and asking questions or bring it breaking news because here

we find out in this chapter it's only been two weeks after ned got back from this war net actually technically catelyn got back and met her husband in true right after this war and cat just straight up asks him about john's parentage no tiptoeing around it yeah i i love that because again cat takes the agency she can where she can take it right like she will be bold when she can be bold in the position to be bold and i think this really brings up a whole entire like a lot of themes are brought up here right uh the seat is strong is a hurdle that's brought up in the story really strongly for game of thrones and obviously it's brought up through the heritage book as well as serving as an analog for the truth of bastardy in the story

for robert but not just for him right like catalan is also in on this theme catalan seat is strong comes in at her desire for her northern children to stop looking like frickin redheaded stepchildren. Right. Like she's like, why can't I birth a child that has brunette hair and can be the heir to the Stark line? It doesn't matter. As we learned, like that does not fucking matter. Rob is accepted because he earns the loyalty right from the lords uh just like the other children will have earned respect of some of these lords to come in their plots i expect sansa will earn that respect with the veil men

and with the northmen john bran keeping on that seat is strong thought though we even have sansa's coloring as elaine right her bastard coloring actually makes her look more stark with the dark hair but her normal coloring has catalin's totally coloring it's kind of an analog with joffrey's bastardy obviously for very obvious reasons but liza thinks it means it's about sweet robin which kind of disguises sansa ned's later realization slash make it a holy cow moment but that's not even what the seed is strong is about right it's not even most about joffrey because the seed is strong is actually overarching about john snow right john snow and the stark seed being strong in comparison to the targaryen genes and here it comes up with Catelyn's fears of Jon having a claim on Winterfell.

They're true in a way, but not in like a usurping or desire way, just in the fateful way that Rhaegar and Lyanna fucked a bunch in the Tower of Joy. Stark looks, Targaryen looks, seed is strong, that's the big plot. And we see that torch get carried on with Davos

for Edric Storm, and even an extent of this plot in Rickon being on Skagos as a start king, possibly. I love that George also loops in another big plot device here, right? His purple herring as well. Having Ashara Dayne come into the plot regarding Jon Snow's parentage is huge. Ashara could cover up if Jon's born with purple eyes out of nowhere,

right? Like, that would be a real shame. Hopefully Jon's born with purple eyes out of nowhere, right? Like, that would be a real shame. Hopefully Jon's not going to get blonde hair, but worse comes to worse, the Danes have some Tardish features, they can make it happen. The finality of Ashara being used as a scapegoat, her name was never heard in Winterfell again, it helps cement those walls that Kat and Ned have between them. It's a complex and really unfair situation for all involved. Not just unfair for Azshara being put into this role of John's mother, not just by Katalin, but by the rumor mill and on a bigger scale being used as a cover-up for what could probably be called treason, right? And keep some war going on for a while. Azshara dying sure was a convenient way to make sure no one ever knew if she was or wasn't

John's mom, huh? Anyway, Catelyn doesn't feel as much blame if she believes Ashara was the mom. She doesn't. I'm sure she questions that narrative in her heart. I'm sure she still thinks that there isn't a truth, but she doesn't have anything else to settle for it. And Ned's outrageous, don't ever ask me about that again. Don't say that name again in Winterfell.

That solidified everyone to go, oh, so it's Azshara. Yeah. Oh, it's definitely Azshara. That sounds like someone who fucked Azshara Dayne, what they would say. Yeah. They're politicking in a way. Yeah. they would say yeah like that politicking in a way yeah it made it believable for everyone in the town and that makes it so that it wrongfully informs catalan going forward his finality is what

catalan chooses to believe because it's all she has to believe she ends up throwing part of this knowledge in and projecting it on the dead chick right who more than likely didn't fuck ned and uses that to kind of avoid accountability for her cruel behavior towards john in some manners it's one of the few handful of things that catalan's done wrong in her life right like we will own up for like three to five of them at most funny enough most of the issues people have with catalan's character are about limited knowledge actions she takes based on very limited knowledge compared to what we the readers have already learned from other POVs this is kind of one of them but it's a double-sided piece because it's meant to lead us astray from John's parentage

this is meant for us to also be confused so George is not only using this to inform us on Catalin's emotions and Ned's emotions in the moment and kind of this big rift between them over this woman, but it more prominently is there to kind of lead us away from RLJ, you know, Rhaegar, Lyanna, Jon, because we only believe in canon in this podcast. In this podcast, I think, like you said, there's a lot going on here with how Catelyn was raised as well. The ambitions her father had for her, how she was groomed as heir before Edmure. She's definitely shrewd to an extent. And in this moment, Hoster didn't really raise her to be a yes queen, right? Like, she's not out there like pink pussy hat. Catelyn is, you know, she's out for herself because she's out to protect her and hers, her and her family. She's the mother wolf in this situation.

And yes, I mean, he raised her on duty and servitude to cope with the pressures of fundamental tutelage. She wasn't going to be able to get the closure she needs on if or if not Ashara Dayne is the mom of this kid. And so instead, she chose to put down some woman any woman and that child to cope absolutely she can't do what malario did and was like i'm out right yeah where would she go she couldn't do that and so she internalizes it and unfortunately she displaces it on john as we'll talk about in a second but as you said it it's the area in which you know both Ned and Kat they Kat has chosen to partially because Ned has sort of led it that way they try and shift the blame on these dead you know ex exes right allegedly allegedly Brandon's fault Ashara's fault right so they Right. Allegedly, allegedly. That's a big part, right? You were talking about limited information, but it's about that sort of gap that people have with one another, trust, love, and the connections people have and what that means for how they develop.

That's a big part of the themes and what A Song of Ice and Fire explores, especially as the series deepens. And we actually get a much more, as we all know, intimate view of Ned, right? That's why we're able to understand what's in his heart and what the secrets that he's hiding are. Whereas Catelyn never gets that view. Ned doesn't even show himself crying to her. Yeah, he turns around and shows her the Lord's face. Like there was never that moment in between. And I think that they have beautiful tender moments and their communication. If they just improved the pipeline and told each other their real feelings and just told the truth, which isn't accepted in their marriage or their society built around them.

I get it. But like if that happened, they could fix it, but they won't. That's what this chapter shows us is that it's over. This is how their relationship will someday end with this rift. Her dying. I mean, she literally thinks at one point, like I was, I was good enough, right? This is how their relationship will someday end with this rift. Her dying. I mean, she literally thinks at one point, like, I was good enough, right? Like, I had all the love I could want.

It was a good enough love. I never had any qualms, right? Didn't I? Yeah. Everything unravels at the end for her. Everything is unreal. Everything she knew just fucking murdered her. Literally. is unreal everything she knew just fucking murdered her literally it reminds me of i think the opening line of anna karenina and it is i think very much at the heart of a lot of what

we see throughout a song of ice and fire the opening line is happy families are all alike every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way even though the stark family in many ways seems so perfect there is its own unique unhappiness then there's more unhappiness where more of them die that that's even more unhappy than some of these parts but nevertheless catelyn says that john must go and ned responds but john and rob are close and he'd hoped and then Catelyn cuts him off saying that Jon cannot stay here. He's Ned's son, not hers. And she will not have him.

It's so sad because that was so close. That was so close to Ned, right? To him in the godswood. Let them grow up like brothers. And let my lady wife find it in her heart to forgive. He prayed all the time. That's what he prayed in the- That's what he was doing in the godswood all the time, Aliana.

It was, and we see that later on, but it was. Catelyn thinks it's hard, but it's the truth, right? Ned isn't doing the boy any kindness in leaving him at Winterfell where he's unwanted by her if she's going to be lady of the house. He gives her an anguished look and finally says there's no place for him in the south. A boy with a bastard's name, you know what they'll say of him. He'll be shunned. And all I hear when he says that is Lyanna in his ear.

Promise me, Ned. what did she ask him? You know, keep him safe. Let him grow up like your son. You know, treat him like you would your child, Ned, please. This is not what he wanted for him. Yeah. Unless the promise was Ned put him on the throne and he was like, I don't know about that. To crown him is to kill him. But I i mean either is pretty shitty here right he broke either depending on

exactly either of those ways that we're describing is broken right he uh yes and i do think he broke the promise in a manner like one way yes he kept him safe and i'm sure that's part of the promise but in a way emotionally as we're going to talk about he didn't constantly kept him safe, and I'm sure that's part of the promise, but in a way, emotionally, as we're going to talk about, he didn't constantly keep him safe. He couldn't find a way to balance the secret and the lifestyle of it, so it's really sad. And this line is also really sad. This one stood out especially with Stoneheart as a theme,

but Catelyn armored her heart against the mute appeal in her husband's eyes yeah she don't speak but she remembers it's a sad way to think that they're gonna part but they at least see each other again we have one last time

they begin to argue though in this moment and Catlin tells him about the rumor mill of like they say that Robert has fathered a dozen bastards himself. And that's like, yeah, but like, none of them have been seen at court. And he's like, the Lannister woman has seen to that. And probably in Catelyn's mind, she's like, hello. That's what I said. If you remember what I said, just a chapter ago, Ned, ago ned in my last chapter well she's also just like but what about me what about my say right what about my pride and status also uh he asks her how she can be so cruel and john's only a boy and he starts to go on you know john's 14 he's just a boy and maester lewin cuts in and i personally always wonder he seemed to get very upset here and i was like is this it was he about to tell

her because i think every moment in this chapter he's like about to tell her he's just a boy he he and he's gonna run out of words eventually and blurt it out uh it's so sad because he he doesn't want to take the autonomy away from john right yeah in this because he doesn't want to take the autonomy away from John, right? Yeah. In this moment, he doesn't want to take autonomy over John's body and life because John is not his son. It's very apparent as someone who knows what the word canon means. Moments ago, he told her Rob needs to become a man. He's 14 now, it's time.

Just last week, he said Rickon needs to grow the fuck up but he's treating john differently he's like rickon's for it it's time to hit the pace of fucking rent in this house he's a man grow and then he's like no john's just a boy yeah and and we know the different treatment right like we know why we know he does not feel ownership to john's body and choices because john is not his son and it's so sad but catalan doesn't know that and she sees this as a special treatment why are you being so easy on your bastard son who came first before us and not on our kids who you have given no thought to this whole time of what the fuck they're going to do with their lives so catalan doesn't see that and she sees it as john being cared for in a special

manner differently when it's more just ned's depression and acedia rising up right he's ready to admit it all if he even makes eye contact with this woman he is like panicking panicking and there's something harsh and pained here that catelyn brings up the rumors right and she says specifically they she doesn't name who they is but they are spreading these rumors about court which shows how pained she was from the previous rumors from they which were just brought up right the same they who told us about ashara dane is likely where she heard this gossip or similar so she's going for the kill here by saying they say fuck robert has fathered a dozen bastards right like just after something was kind of brought up in

the realm things are getting icy this is kind of a gut punch by going for the kill she's not allowed to speak about they usually right absolutely and yeah this is this is about also as you said her pride but and it's important that we get this chapter and this moment from katlyn's perspective and not ned's because i mean ned's perspective as we know would be all about liana and reygar and john's place in all for some reason question mark i just can't figure out why it must be because john is a shara dane's kid oh my god but yeah that's that's why it comes through catelyn's perspective because it is shrouded in mystery but also she can't understand right because ned doesn't tell people for understandable

reasons because you know he's lived through this whole thing where like he's like oh yeah all these kids are cool with murdering children that's why he's like ned john's just a boy but anyways ned is in a very difficult position that he's put all of his family including john in a very difficult position then he's put all of his family including john in a very difficult position as well because i mean rhaegar and lyanna that's a big part of ned's reluctance to bring john to court right he's putting him in the place that a led to like a lot of horrible shit happening to his family but also in proximity of a lot of people in King's Landing, right? Like, he's already worried about if Robert finds out that Jon's Rhaegar's son, I mean, who knows what Robert's wrath will do, and that's why he hid him in the first place. But also, with Jon's disposition, yes, he looks very much like a Stark,

but what if there are undertones of him that someone notices, and they're like, you know, it's really interesting, Rhaegar used to do that too, or Rhaegar also looked a little bit like that. You know, your cheekbones, your cheek structure, a little bit like Rhaegar, right? That's where all those people live in King's Landing. That saw Rhaegar every day. Yes, exactly. That served Rhaegar. But it also shows us that, as we know, Jon is this huge area of weakness for Catelyn in

many ways because yes, of course, as we'll see in this chapter, sure, Catelyn does fear Jon's threat to her children's claim. But she also just in general clearly dislikes his presence in Winterfell. As we see from this chapter, she may not have necessarily disliked John himself, but the years, it's 14 years gnawing at her, this dishonor, this wedge that is between her and her husband, whom she loves. It's a different thing than Brandon's ghost. There's nothing you can do about Brandon, right? If he's dead. There's nothing you can do about Ashara, who's allegedly the mother, right?

Who's dead, right? allegedly, the mother, right? Who's dead, right? But Catelyn does feel that there is something that Ned can do in regards to this for Catelyn, right? In regards to where Jon is kept. And so Catelyn has evolved all of this into displacing all that frustration into Jon's person. And that's really clear here, right?

Because what Catelyn's saying here is ridiculous. If she's so afraid of John's claim, sending him to King's Landing with Ned makes no fucking sense politically. It's literally like a bigger risk. It's not a good move. Because in my opinion, sending John with Ned to King's Landing actually legitimizes John politically, right? He would be bringing John into the center of Westerosi power, which also in theory would allow him to build the sorts of political connections and allies that someone would need if they were going to be like, yeah, what if I raised a coalition and took Winterfell? Like, King's Landing is the place to do it. But that's the depths of how badly

Catelyn does not want Jon to stay here, that it clouds that judgment. But at the same time, it's really, I think, deeply unfair of Ned to leave Jon and Catelyn's care for both Jon and Catelyn. It's unfair to both of them entirely because we saw through Jon's chapters

that we did already the sort of trauma that he's still very much unpacking it and learning from Catelyn as an adult figure. It was so bad that it affects even Rob, her eldest son, and affects Rob's own decisions politically, right? Because Catelyn was a figure with power in John's life and a figure that excluded him. And it's also quite sad considering that Ned

and Kat are fighting over keeping the other children who get to take bitch kids when they're saying that neither of them in this moment can take John, right? John doesn't know it, but he's like unwanted in this conversation. But it's also, I think, unfair of Ned to make Katlyn responsible for raising a child that is not hers, that has been a blight to her honor, and that he is allowed to be this huge block in their relationship that he hasn't tried to fix or address at all. And I don't think the solution is for Cat to just get over it. Again, it's 14 years of this, and that's not going to be undone easily.

It is Ned's responsibility, especially as we see that cat you know she may have had a say she may have had more of a voice in her house than perhaps most other ladies in best rows and she was really fortunate that the system worked out for her in most things except for this one thing but ultimately she does not have the final voice she does not have the final say in winterfell and this is most definitely not her child she does not have the say over his body i mean yeah ned himself is having issues deciding you know what to do with john due to the autonomy over his body and like cadeline is not the person to make that decision she even says you know maester lewin brings it up she didn't but she thought about it and she thought about it and

she was like what if i say it and she thought about it and she was like what if i say it and then maester luan doesn't she's like thank the fucking gods someone said it so i didn't have to because it was a point of contention and immediately it fills her whole body with rage and he feels it and it isn't her responsibility to raise the child i'm very lucky that i have a stepdad that decided like you know i'm gonna step up and raise this kid but that doesn't always happen and he had a choice right like your your stepfather loves your mother and chose to enter that and love you caitlin yes exactly and i would also say once more and span on this later but he should have just left him at Starfall. Anyways.

But I understand, you know, to some extent, why he doesn't because if Catelyn's concerned about the threat that Jon plays towards Winterfell imagine the threat that Jon plays towards the Iron Throne in actuality.

But, as you know, eventually we'll find out maybe one day in like the the 13th book maester lewin offers a solution uncle benjen had come to maester lewin offering for the boy to join the night's watch catelyn says nothing because she knows that ned has to decide this on his own he needs to himself and she wouldn't be welcome to the conversation but she wants to kiss maester lewin for the solution giving john to the brothers letting benjamin be a father to the boy a son benjamin would never have yes so it's an interesting and shrewd argument for cat to make here in the context of these

past few chapters that are built around family, as we've been discussing, that isn't necessarily directly tied through blood. Benjen and John kind of are, right? But in drawing on the sympathies of the relationships that Ned has with both John Arryn and Robert Arryn, and that these ties are strong enough to push Ned into going south. But in regard to those familial ties, it is interesting that ned doesn't pull rank here right but it's probably for the best because again it is cruel to both john and to cat to to put them in that situation but in his protest to cat right and this is telling he is pleading for sympathy for john that john is only a boy right as though he's only a boy alone in the world but at no point does he ever tell catlin

it's because john is my son i mean and catlin does throw that in his face at one point but ned knows not to do that not only because it would backfire for him but also he doesn't have the right to say it and he's never said it like that yeah i mean the immediate response is well what are they he's like he's my blood. He says that. Yep. Catalin thinks John would take the oath eventually and father no sons to contest with her grandchildren. True, but you know, I mean.

Yeah. To an extent, we just don't know. Well, we don't know, you know, I mean, like, maybe he figured that out on his own, right? By dying and then getting brought back to life. We don't know, as we've all been trying to figure it out. Well, Ned reflects, even bastards can rise in the Night's Watch. Ah, like Jon, who dies and he's gonna rise. But reiterates, he is so young.

Were he a man grown? Sure, but 14 again if only he was four years old if only he was fucking rickett we're gonna need you to start taking over the farming every day i mean that's kind of what manderly wants him to do yeah that's true you're king now i think that's the whole thing about parenting right it's just like how much child labor can we get for free i don't know lewin agrees it's a hard sacrifice but these are hard times and his road is no crueler than ned's or catalan's that's true to be they all die yeah they both get brought back to life yeah two of them come back to all three the pigeon

oh the pigeon or ice depending yeah depending on where you think ned is currently he's in one of them catalan does think immediately of the three children she must lose thinking how it's not easy to keep silent part of me is like yes catalan we know your life is hard calum's like yes i know their lives are hard and their paths are hard, but mine's harder. Pretty much. It's like, things are hard for me. But Ned, Ned's life is also actually very hard. He's gazing out the window away from them and then finally turns back saying,

I will speak to Ben. Lewin says, all right, when are we gonna tell John? And Ned's like, I'll do it when I must. He wants to let John enjoy the last few days that winter fell. And then says, summer will end soon enough. And childhood as well.

When the time comes, I will tell myself. I love that Ned's like, we leave in a fortnightnight i'm gonna let him enjoy it for a few days because he's a trying to figure out ways he can reverse all of it right in his head he's like how can i get out i can i fix it but he's gonna find out there's no fixing it and b what are you gonna tell him ned are you gonna show up and be like, well, John, I'm about to ruin your life. You've been wrongfully treated as a bastard, Cinderella,

for the past 14 years. And then, you know, tell him, so you can go to the Night's Watch, which is what's planned for you, or you can do nothing else because I can't help you. Bye, good luck. Like, what is he going to say to him? You know, like, you've lived 14 years alive with this

boy now all of a sudden on the fortnight of this important event for his life he has nowhere to go no money you're not gonna give him gold and a keep somewhere else and say hey there's an empty keep we're gonna repurpose you could just live there and do whatever the fuck you want like this is it you're just gonna be like yep you what? I'm just gonna let you go to this penal colony. Obviously he doesn't know how or when or what to say to him to deliver this information. And, like, obviously is all like, oh, we'll talk about your mother next time, son. And there's no next time. But it's just what?

What's the plan, Phil? But that's a show only, right? I think that was show only, wasn't it? Yeah. Well, good, since we are a canon series about the show that the book's covered. You could be like, John, I found out you have this really hot aunt across the sea. And you know, you're people. You were into that.

Oh, my God. I do think this actually might be where that show line came from. That I'll tell him myself when the time comes, I'll tell him myself. I think they adapted that, you know, that he then says to John, oh, someday I'll tell you. Which, of course, wrenches the heartstrings, right? The most because you're like, no. But John's fate is sealed here. Like there's unless literally Ned paid for a keep or took him and dropped him off

at another friend's house a lord's house again should have just dropped him in starfall you know sent him along the way his fate is sealed obviously we need john at the wall and he's wonderful and he's saved and kicked some ass and done some really great things in the story so like this isn't for me necessarily like i don't personally i'm not like take him there i'm glad he's at the wall i'm glad the story we got but it's just like what's the plan phil what's the plan ned what were you gonna do yeah ned's plan is like all right i guess that takes care of that and he's like i'll deal with i'll deal with it later i'll deal with it when i come back north which i guess i think that was literally his plan that was his that was his plan because as we remember when he's thinking of retiring from the hand chip he's like this is great i'm

gonna go back north it's gonna be sick i'm gonna i've been wrongfully discharged from my time in king's landing and he's like it's fine i'm getting sent to the wall and i'm gonna get to spend time with john and i'm gonna tell him the truth and that might be where the line from the show comes from because we're gonna talk about it now that like john can't do anything because he took an I'm going to get to spend time with John and I'm going to tell him the truth. And that might be where the line from the show comes from. Cause he's like, we're going to talk about it now that like John can't do anything. Cause he took an oath. He's like, foster son's totally going to keep with this oath.

Yeah. It's a, it's rough because there's just no, there's no answer. There's no right answer to it. Unfortunately, there really isn't. There's no way that John like could just learn about his parentage it obviously the dramatic tension in the book series

would not be worth it there'd be no story uh but there's no way ned could have even done this at this point it was already sealed and that's very much what this last line here is about too right summer and childhood are ending soon not just for John and the other Stark children, but also, of course, for Ned, who has experienced this before. That's why he's so sad. But it's also ending for Catelyn, right? Because the chapter opens with the warmth of Winterfell, gradually becomes colder, as Catelyn notes, and the plot starting to be like, it's here, I'm here, we're doing it, the story. And the childhood and the innocence that ends is just as much about Catelyn's storyline, right? As Alex pointed out in their email last time, maybe in one of our lives and murdering our husbands and wives and shitting on our fields. I'm getting sick of it, George.

I'm honestly kind of getting sick of you murdering my people. That's why he stopped. Well, the good news is he hasn't done it in 11 years. It's fine. I'm just kidding. He's actively murdering all the characters I love right now. And I love that for him. Summer and childhood have ended for us.

You know, me being two years younger than Catlin. It reminds me of a lyric from Summer by the Manimals from the album seven a game of thrones concept album which is the shit if you haven't heard this album it is it is a bop the lyric is is it true that summer's over i thought this would go much slower can't you feel the weirwoods weeping where the past was always sleeping and it just feels so resonant you you know? I thought this would go much slower, but it goes so quickly, and soon all of our heroes die, and we're left with the cold, long night, and then the winds of winter blow, my friends. The winds of winter have not blown, but yeah, in theory.

I mean, next week. I mean, as soon as this episode drops. Yes, if you look under your earbuds, you will find a copy of The Winds of Winter. Boop, boop, boop, boop. Well, I'm sad. I'm sufficiently sad. We're two chapters into Catalan.

It's Pisces season. How we feeling? I started out like, I was like, ha, this is hilarious. And then we kept going. I was like, I'm sad? then we kept going I was like I'm sad starts off sexy gets real sad and that ladies gentlemen's they's them's that that's how Catalin crumbles you know starts off sexy then gets sad that's it sad sexy is also a vibe

I agree I've been living off it for a long time well with that i think that wraps up our discussion on catalan 2 and a game of thrones this week we will be back next week with another chapter another catalan chapter catalan 3 wow can't can't believe it we're really in it we're doing it but not just next week this month we are going to come to you with another auburn haired character in in the song of ice and fire universe oh yes we are going to be coming back with someone who uh you know what it's interesting i got fan cast by our friends at davos fingers briefly as her which had me laughing because i am not short uh but i have i think i'm no you're not i'm not short, but I think I'm sassy. No, you're not. I'm not short. Thank you for knowing.

Yes. But we will be covering the sworn sword. Rohan Weber is who we were referring to as our other redhead. She is sassy and vibrant and also had to be stuck in a political marriage box a few times and got out of it a few ways. So I'm excited to talk about her. And that's not the best part about us talking about the sworn sword this month eliana there is a surprise guest can you tell me more yes we are having a surprise guest join us for our patreon

episode this month of the sworn sword we are doing a reprise um ch's doing a reprise, not me. In a kind of way, drunken egg. With our good friend Joe Buckley, you might know him from The Isle of Faces or writing for The Tower of the Hand or even helping with some of the writing at History of Westeros. Joe has been, I think, quite a pillar of the community for a while, silently silently and he acts like

you know he acts like he came after us and i'm like joe i was like reading your shit when i was first getting into this fandom what are you doing he's so funny he's like a he's the nicest person in the world he'd give you the shirt off his back but you'd never ask him for it but he would like if you needed it he would do it in a heartbeat nice guy we talked for many hours doing this episode it was very sad it was lost out at sea this whole episode got lost as he you know shipped his audio across the pod i'm just kidding that's what happens you know that that is how that is actually how it works happened for that silk that becomes man's traitor's cape it happened with those spices at Sisterton. God, trade is

so exciting. Your audio might be there. Your audio might be at Sisterton. We love exports and imports. Well, we're excited to have him join us to finally reprise the lost episode from Drunk A Song of Ice and Fire. I don't know that we'll necessarily be drunk for it,

but we'll tune back in for that. But that will be our Patreon episode this month our a song of ice and fire special patreon episode every other month we release an episode on a song of ice and fire for patrons in the stranger tier five dollars and up a month at patreon.com slash girls gone canon every other other month we release an episode about his dark materials the other series we cover if you haven't read it totally check it out very good series i recommend it eliana recommends it you'd like it for sure for sure and of course other things that you might like are our discord for patrons ten dollars and above thunder and above. If you're going by horse names. We have a Discord for patrons.

And not only do we have many channels to talk about various things, we also have once a month a brunch slash happy hour. We have yet to announce this month's date. It will likely be a Sunday in March where we get on one of the voice channels on Discord and we all just kind of hang out. Sometimes we still have people do presentations. But I think this month is going to be a chill Jackbox Games sort of vibe thing going on. Yeah, just vibes. You know, I think this carry on with nothing but vibes. I can't wait. We had a blast with Jackbox Games. And I think we

just need a little time to recuperate but we'll be back with some crazy stuff at brunch for sure definitely hop over there and check it out and hey if you are online check us out on our social media you can send us a tweet a dm whatever you want quote retweet retweet at girls gone canon on twitter c-a-n-o-n or you can hit us an email with your thoughts on the most recent episode or on the POV itself. Whatever you want to chat about. Send us photos of your cats, your dogs, your animals, your hedgehogs. I don't know.

We love it. Girls Gone Canon. C-A-N-O-N at gmail.com. It doesn't even have to be about the most recent episode. It's fun to hear people who are making their way through, right? Like Danielle did. episode it's fun to hear people who are who are making their way through right like danielle did and you know as as they progress through the series figuring out where they are but of course uh if you are up to date with episodes you can subscribe to us on one of the

many platforms that we are on such as google play apple podcast podbean where everything is hosted, Spotify, Stitcher Acast, Overcast and Amazon Podcast, Pandora and I think that's a pretty decent list you can just go to Google we'll be there I promise but I think I did a good job today you did a great job

I'm always proud of Eliana well if you're always proud of El time i'm always proud of eliana well if you're always proud of eliana i'm always proud of chloe uh get it because we say goodbye usually around this time and we do we do i was chilling i'm always proud of bran but uh i am always proud of bran and i have been chloe i have been eliana. Goodbye. Goodbye, always proud of Brad.