Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 126 - AGOT Catelyn IX

Episode Date: May 21, 2021

As Catelyn and Robb arrive at the Twins, the deal they make brings double the trouble down the line. --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl] Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, leads to Song of Ice and Fire, episode 126, Cattle and Nine in a Game of Thrones. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. Yes, welcome everyone. We are at a something of a bridge. Something like that. This is like the end of the Game of Thrones. There are like two chapters after this. That is true. At first i thought you were talking about the show and i was like what the fuck this is the first book no no this is this is well i mean i'm always talking about the show that the books are based upon but no this is catelyn's ninth chapter you know we've got the next two are the big ones right they're the uh the big ones robbie boy proves himself on the field and then you know decaying in the north swashbuckling in the air all the all the big feels and oh yeah

ned's gonna die oh yeah i mean this is a good one too right this is also a big one has a lot of payoff dramatically not not not like in a satisfying way but it has a lot of dramatic payoff for this whole series so there's that honestly so blasé I was like wow Aliana as opposed to you being like it's only going to get happier from here at the end of like

last episode or something like that dude the best part is I was thinking about how I said that and then I read this chapter and I was like wow this is miserable this is miserable knowing what happens and reading this chapter and seeing like the scar tissue that Walder Frey has obviously been carrying for 80 years of his 90 something year old life I'm like wow you really buried that grudge down deep didn't you all it's a chapter and a half there's a lot of new faces getting to see rob up close is is probably one of the big highlights in my opinion and see his struggle from boy to boy king to king you know soon and boy the lord and i i think that

little boy the lord boy to king pipeline is something we'll talk about absolutely and as you said a lot a lot of rob here we've been really ramping up to him. And so it's, you know, George wanted to flesh out, right, what does kingship look like from the perspective of a mother? But of course, you know, we get a lot of time with Catelyn without Rob. So interesting stuff. And I mean, she does a lot of the action, right? The some extent happens off page but not and it centers around catelyn not around rob i think a clash is great for that when they're separated right and coming back together for them as we will obviously get to eventually is also miserable it's not great right like things are things are not great for everyone involved. Things just feel like shit. Everything's rainy and gray and gross. And they go to this shit-ass wedding eventually where shit-ass things happen.

It's, yeah, it's a real time. And this chapter is full of some fun foreshadowing and some fun little playful ideas that we'll see George play with and grow and garden with in the next two books so I guess we'll cherish Kat in a Game of Thrones for now before we have to say bye to the Game of Thrones and move on to the the King Clash the ACOC the ACOC yes absolutely well before we do that along with visiting the twins as we've told all of you we are going to a couple of other places in Planetos

on Patreon we are going to continue our tour of the free cities I am so excited because we are getting past the halfway point in free cities right we've been touring. We were just talking about when we went to Kohor a while ago. That was such a while ago, but we are summer loving, heading to Pentos, Pentos, Penthouse. I don't know. There's working titles. I kind of want to go with a theme. We always go with themes. I want to go with a theme.

Well, we'll figure it out. Yeah. I yeah i mean this one there's not a goat there so well listen if you are in the stranger tier or above over at our patreon patreon.com slash girls gone canon five dollar tier and above you're gonna get a special episode every month that's this month's pentos pentosi penthousey Penthouse. I don't know. Again, working titles. We're going to work on it, I swear. But that's not all we offer as a Patreon member, right? If you're in the Thunder tier or above, $10 and up, you have access to a couple of other things, like...

Like our Discord. For patrons $10 and up on our Discord, we have fun and games. For example, actually, we aren't doing games this month, but we are doing fun. This coming Sunday, May 23rd, we are going to be having our brunch slash happy hour. And to celebrate springtime, though it's almost summer, we are going to be doing a presentation potluck a powerpoint potluck eliana does a love love them very much i do too i like them they're fun now to be fair if we finish early we might still play little reindeer games we'll play some jackbox games for sure but uh i'm

excited for this yeah well and the theme this month is fun right so a dream of spring or whatever the hell you're dreaming of right now whether it's a swath related or whether it's actually just like i want to travel or i want to eat a really good cheese sandwich or i don't know i don't know what you want but we encourage you to make a three to five slide slideshow if you're a patron in the thunderdeer or above, feel free to present it, a quick little presentation on what you're dreaming of. And there'll be more info over at our Patreon.

So check that out. Yes. And of course, this is not the only series that we cover. As many of you know, we also cover the His Dark Materials book series and the companion series which we are finishing up the first book of right now that's the books of dust trilogy

a sandwich trilogy around the his dark materials books we are coming to the end of labelle sauvage but basically i mean we are coming to the end of the sausage yeah we'll be doing our last episode of labelle sauvage and we are going to have one of our really good friends on, Holly. You may know her from over at the Dust podcast, hanging out at Matt's audio blog with our friend Double M, who we recently did a fun rewatch episode for the His Dark Materials TV show. We had a real blast. We'll link that in the details. But Holly's coming over to hang out with us.lly was here over in our patreon episode in december about his dark materials so was double m matt and i'm excited holly's gonna finish out the book with us it's a great book so if you're into his dark materials we definitely recommend those additional companion books in that trilogy and uh after this we're not going to continue right away with those companion books we're actually going to do a quick rewind and go finish the first trilogy, the OG trilogy, and start the Amber Spyglass. So look out for details on that soon.

Yeah, keep an eye out. Keep your... Keep a... I thought I was going to make a cool spyglass joke, but you can all use your imagination. Yeah, keep a lens out. Something. Pretend I succeeded. Kn Yeah, keep a lens out. Something. Pretend I succeeded. Knives out. Tits out. Oh my god, tits out.

For Liza, Erin. Anyway. Speaking of things that are funny. We got this, this one's not an email or tweet and note. This is actually a Podbean comment that we got a few weeks ago at the beginning of april and we kept meaning to bring it up but then we would forget every time when we were doing the notes and then in the middle of the episodes i'd be like shit shit i forgot to bring that one up

so that's a lot of our process now that you say it out loud i don't want to talk about it um thank you to this commenter cmtapu96 this is not actually cmtapu96's first comment but this one this one was uh tickled me where they said google plus is a great april fools prank so

look it's not my fault apparently i said google plus instead of google play we're not on Google Plus. Don't look for us there. We're on Google Play, everyone. I kind of wish we were on Google Plus, but those are gone now, you know? No, it's literally over.

It's a geriatric millennial thing, as they say. You know, I bet the kids are going to be listening to the podcast someday, whoever the kids are, and they're going to be like, what's Google Plus, Grandma? Because we're going to be grandma's gone canon by then you know yeah probably you're all our kids and our grandkids now spoiler alert uh we've evolved i can't wait to be like 80 and maybe senile and have completely lost it and be like is it accidentally covering Ayn Rand. I don't know. Is it true? I don't like that future. That's a dystopian future.

But you've just... I said we were senile, okay? That's true. Maybe one of us will die in time. God. Anyway, but... Oh. Another context around this, right? This was a comment on our 121st episode, Cat 4, which was coming around around the beginning

of April. So, would have been timely for April Fool's things as well as alas, that was not meant to be a prank, but if you want us to think we were pulling your leg for that, go ahead. I'm really glad that when people think

about us, they're like, those girls they're so canon and they're such tricksters. Those girls are on Google+. They're just pranking. Pulling tricksters. Those girls are on Google+. They're just pranking. Pulling pranks. Pulling pranks. Always pranking. Well, I'm not going to prank you guys on this one because we're going to jump into our lightning round,

which is, of course, what we missed between Catalan 8 and Catalan 9 in A Game of Thrones. And it's actually pretty quick today. We'll start it off with Tyrion 7. Tyrion returns to the inn at the crossroads with his own personal, friendly army of 300 veilmen. Tyrion and Tywin discuss Robb's host drawing near, and Tywin offers rich rewards to the clansmen for their help. Sansa V.

Sansa attends her betrothed's first session as the king and pleads for her father's life. Eddard XV. First session as the king and pleads for her father's life. Etterd 15. Ned is told what he must do to sew the kingdom back together in the wake of Robert's death and his treason. Allegedly. Alleged treason. Allegedly. How do you plead, Ned, pigeon? Coo, coo.

Corn. Corn. That's a different part that's a different bird different character we're here at catlin nine in a game of thrones where arriving at the twins catlin negotiates for rob's host to cross yes catlin's apprehensions continue to grow as they land near the twins she masks them behind her stern still face but they grew larger every league they crossed she spends her days anxious nights restless and every raven that flies above her makes her clench her teeth wow is this anyways why does she hate birds i do have to say she spends her days anxious nights restless that's a bunch in her teeth this is a mood that sounds like 30 catalan chapters are so relatable she's worried right she's worried about her dad her brother ned her girls she knows she can't help them so she has to put her fears aside and be strong now for Rob.

You must be as fierce and hard as the North, Catelyn Tully. You must be as stark for true now, like your son. Each day, Rob asks one of the lords to join him at the front of the column, listening to their words and worries and advice, honoring each one equally. She watches him proud of what he's learned from ned but worried that he hasn't learned enough i loved reading that he was uh taking on so much of ned's mannerisms in that and that that thought that she has there of how she is going to have to be a stark for true now just like her son uh it's really emotional starting this chapter with that that that we get her going to have to be a Stark for true now just like her son it's really emotional starting this chapter with that that we get her going

to the twins fully taking on the house Stark mantle along with being a Tully especially because her next return here she pledges her honor as a Tully and her honor as a Stark right before she pledges murder with a knife

so we'll talk we'll talk about this whole stark echo existing and there's almost like an echo of ned's ghost pre-existing right like the man hasn't quite died yet but he's already starting to be this monomythic figure for the army and for the men and for rob i don't know i love this though catalyn is able to both see the flaws and the prowess of her son and husband's choices in field yeah definitely and i think this part is good and also as you're saying how ned starts to become this like ghost and this myth rob actually starts kind of becoming that for his siblings too and a source of strength the way that rob sees his father because i guess it seems like a an eldest sibling thing sometimes that gets thrust onto them a sort of parental role

um but you know again what do we know about that these are just i do love that though i love seeing uh the parents reflected rob since we don't actually get his internal pov it's really interesting to see these choices reflected in him and emotionally and mentally he is a lot more like his dad i think in many of these instances in in some aspects however i think here we see that his tully side is very physically present throughout the chapter which we'll talk about yeah i mean he's also in some ways he's like his own kid right he's trying to be like learning from either of his parents but he's not he's very much like more of his own character versus i think you know how we see a lot of echoes of ned and john that one i think is so clear yeah i think the camaraderie and the way he associates with his

men though uh i see that strongly in the beginning of the story. Yeah. Obviously, we get disconnected from him in the second book a bit, but... Sure. And I think part of it is also he was raised more, you know, accepted and is charismatic, personable in a way that I think Ned didn't feel all the time being in the shadow of both Brandon and Robert. Yeah. Ned didn't feel all the time being in the shadow of both Brandon and Robert. The Blackfish rode ahead with a hundred men and horses, screening their movements and scouting the way. The reports, though, don't really reassure her. Tywin's host was many days to the south, but Lord Frey has assembled his own force of near four thousand men at the Green Fork. But that's, like, it.

Late again, Catelyn murmured when she heard. It was the trident all over. Damn the man. Yup. It is intentional. Yeah. I do love that we open this chapter with vibes of the Rebellion, right? Especially where we just chapter with vibes of the rebellion, right?

Especially where we just closed. Well, something interesting, right? The sandwich. This is a sandwich, Eliana. Oh, wow. I'm going to feed you a sandwich. I love sandwiches. I know.

I know you do. The chapter right before this is Etterd 15. Now we are in Catilid 9. And after this, we go to John 8, which we have covered the other two chapters before. You may all recall on this journey. Jon 8 is the one with one of my favorite audio revisits, Eliana, with your Jon Snow. It's my favorite Jon Snow in the beginning of our thing.

I did a Jon Snow. You do whatever was right, no matter what. Yeah, yeah. I don't even remember a time when I used to do Jon Snow I only remember you I think someone else before said someone commented and was like they only hear your voice now

when reading and thinking about Jon Snow and I was like I don't know do you have any additions earlier today I was like yeah I think I only think of Chloe's renditions of Jon Snow now I'm not kidding not kidding it's pretty bad i i'm pretty sure there are only like besides the passages i was forced to read by you there are pretty much like five catchphrases you could just like poke me like a doll or a book that has the stickers

you could press for sound and i'll just say them, you know, McQueen. Well, this is sandwiched and there's a lot of rebellion talk that comes up between these three chapters. In Eddard 15, at the very end of the chapter, we have Varys talking to Ned. And it has some of these strong themes that are pretty thematically woven in throughout the end of the book. Rhaenys was a child too. Prince Rhaegar's daughter. A precious little thing. Younger than your girls. She had a small black kitten she called Balerion, did you know? I always wondered what happened to him. Rhaenys liked to pretend he

was the true Balerion, the black dread of old, but I imagine the Lannisters taught her the difference between a kitten and a dragon quick enough the dayannisters taught her the difference between a kitten and a dragon quick enough the day they broke down her door uh opening opening and closing like opening with the rebellion after closing with that about the rebellion and about the slaughter of the rebellion is not a good sign for how this starts off because we know a new rebellion is being born right now, right? And this time the rebellion leader is a Rob. It's Rob, but it's not Robert, right? It's a different man, a different young man about to lead,

and a different young man that will learn the lesson that the Lannisters taught Rhaenys to. Absolutely. The difference between a wolf and... A dire wolf and a lion. A dire wolf and a normal wolf. Yeah, right. Even that works.

Look, inside of you, there are two wolves. One is really big and the other is, like, normal-sized. And you are a man. Well, speaking of men, Edgier had called the banners, and yet Lord Frey, again, just sits here with 4,000 men. So Rob is more confused than angry,

but he'll be angry soon enough. It's fine, teenagers. And tells his mother that, well, I mean, Lord Frey must mean to join his power to theirs, right? Like, he's not gonna fight the Lannisters themselves. And Catelyn's like, does he?

Ha ha. gonna fight the Lannisters themselves. And Catelyn's like, does he? Just some comprehension check questions, young Rob. Does he? Does he though? Yeah. Rob and Robbette, very not confusing, rode together today. It's not like

Smurfette. The Van Gogh is moving slowly behind them catelyn tells her son to expect nothing walder fray and you'll never be surprised rob is surprised to hear her speak of walder in this casual tone and she's like some men take their oaths more seriously than others and lord walder is more friendly with Casterly Rock than my father ever liked, including the wedded kin. Though, she notes, that doesn't mean much, right? Because Walder has many children and they all have to marry someone. I mean, they don't all have to.

What do they want, Walder? To be fair, a lot of them have gone after a couple things they wanted, right? Some of them are out to get married and you even have some that are at the citadel learning that's now that's not always considered a great honor but sometimes it is yeah i mean there were targaryens dime a dozen and there were a handful that wanted to go there back in the fire and blood book right yeah some people think it's fun yeah i mean i know my husband is all about the whole learning thing he He's like, I would be at the Citadel reading books and smelling their fancy library. Okay. I mean, yeah, I would, but like then they'd kick me out.

So whatever. Yeah, they'd catch me like rolling a blunt in one of the book's pages. Robat Glover asks if she thinks Walder means to betray them to the Lannisters, lol. Does he? And Catelyn is like, I don't know if he knows what he wants to do. And I read this chapter, so I'm like, oh, I think he might know what he wants to do. She says he has an old man's caution, but a young man's ambition, and he has never lacked for cunning.

Rob starts to get a little heated in that young Rob way, reminding her, well, we have to have the twins and there's no other way to cross and she and lord walder she adds both undoubtedly know this yeah so again we get a lot of that establishing of this world and things going on in these chapters last chapter showed how you know narrow and important some of these parts of westrose are for transportation and um crossing the strategic advantages that certain terrain have. And this one, within this very same chapter, you're showing us the stakes of why the Twins are so important. It was kind of told to us last chapter, but here we're really building that up.

And also, therefore, why the price of crossing is so high. Prices and payment and things, that's like a big theme in this very first book, especially with how it ends with Daenerys and stuff. Yeah, I was just going to say the price, trading that price for life and death, and this is life or death for them right now. Yeah, it's Ned's life or death. They camp on the south end of the Bogs that night between king's road and river and theon grayjoy brings word from the blackfish brendan had crossed swords with lannister men who

theon reports won't be reporting back to lord tywin anytime soon slash ever he does this grinning little macabre dude tone it down right not the time not the place tone it down a little theon's out here he's like yeah yeah fight club let's do it oh he would you know he would theon durden as everyone calls him you know actually the yeah the theory that is yeah i mean you find reek out there trying to eat fat from rats right true true true interesting well adam marbrand is commanding the lannister outriders theon reveals but he's pulling back south burning as he goes the blackfish thinks he knows somewhat where the armies lie but that the lannisters will not know where they plan to split their army unless lord frey tells him catalan says sharply commanding Theon to place his best bowmen around the twins with orders to kill any ravens they see.

Damn. She does not want the birds bringing Rob's movements to Tywin, but Theon says Brendan's already seen to it. They've almost enough birds for a pie now. How many birds do you need for a pie? Like, two. Right? Like, how- I guess they have a big army. I like how big of a pie i don't know then you would make multiple pies anyway um uh-huh interesting anyway so i feel i know that

she says that she should have expected and she's like oh of course my uncle already thought of that but i do think that it shows that kat has those smart ideas right those orders didn't come from rob and she's shown to have the same line of thinking as like someone who has a lot of military experience and who is famed which sort of displays her own cunning as well yeah that's a great point and katalin in general like I really love how she was very urgent, right? You could tell she had that mother moment that protectiveness come over her and wash over her because she actually relates it directly to her son, right? She's like, I will not be having my son, you know, murder trained because of the phrase sending messages to the Lannisters.

Sorry, it was hard to say. It was really hard. It's really hard to read this chapter. But yeah, I think that's a really great thing that she was about to do no matter what, like she was ready to dive in there. And it does remind me of how she was with Bran, right? How she straight up told everyone like, I would kill every fucking horse in Winterfell, if it meant saving my son. Absolutely. Well. There's this other part of this, though, that, look, I think there's some foreshadowing or even some groundwork for future plots happening here. So Theon comes back with all of this, and he says

they almost have enough birds for a pie now. You don't need that many right they could start selling them maybe it's hot pie foreshadowing uh theon then says that he promises to save the feathers for her for a hat and some things here just really stand out right they're obviously lady stoneheart motifs raven feathers just a lot of the themes of the warring in the Riverlands. Pie. Funny that pie comes up here when pie comes up again for the phrase later on. And of course, the cough cough birds, I guess, in a storm of swords with Joffrey's wedding pie. But there's also that thought of like the crow feathers.

Lady Stoneheart, Catelyn wearing a hat made of crow feathers um it's a literal hat of dark wings dark words right which theon will bring them in the next book as he takes winterfell and kills bran you know with the raven connection and ricken not really kills them uh but also literally following this there's this line not a day's ride from here we found two lannister scouts feeding the crows where the frays had strung them up yes yes all of that is so loud it's so loud absolutely i'm like shut up george i get it god yeah i think that if anyone should have like i don't know a hat of like raven feathers it should be lord titus blackwood to go with his cloak yeah i mean all i care about is that cloak it's fashion all i care about is fashion just like titus i mean it is actually it's very much

a statement but but yeah absolutely it's also kind of funny you know just seeing theon again from other povs and in this first book he's just so different right it's it's such a trip and i do think a lot of what you're saying right it absolutely is foreshadowing the chapters right before this in the veil had a lot of that language about like alissa's tears and then some of that other stoneheart sort of language i don't know for sure that george knew that he was going to call her that yet or if he like went through his stuff he's like you know it'd be fun if i just took some of this shit like went with it right he's he's good at that

but i think it's perfect because it does come up obviously yeah in her like her thinking of it so it's perfect yeah i think i i don't know if i just don't know if it was intentional or not right but he's very good at closing those loops and you can see how once upon a time though like between this chapter and the previous ones like the elissa's tears definitely but like you, you can see how Storm, Clash, and Game of Thrones were all once upon a time one book. I mean, kind of. You can almost see it. You're like, I can see how these would all have gone together. But then you look at how many things happened in all those books and you're like, what did you do, George?

I mean, I watched the show. I like it. I mean, I get how these could have been one. But yeah, absolutely. And like, then you have like all of this set up, right? And you say, it makes sense. show i like it i mean i i get how these could have been used but yeah absolutely and like then you have like all of this set up right and you say yeah it makes sense it makes sense and no i'm so glad that it ends up playing the long game too uh i did a lot of reading the last chapter versus this chapter just to see some of the same language with oaths and uh some of the sarcastic language

going on and the dark kind of language being placed around things in the, well, both of the chapters, not just Kat's last chapter, but the chapter before that when they first got to the twins. I could see where you could just natural progression rate to it somehow. You know, like, oh, and then it happened. But that book in between is really necessary, I think. I think it just is a bigger tragedy harder and darker and we're gonna

get into it yeah get into it and i mean like you know it's a stronger story for it but also at the same time the price we've paid is you know again one day we're gonna meet grandma's gone canon we're gonna be like is it trying to break out yet so oh i dreamed i was i dreamed I was old anyway the frays have seen a little fighting between Adam's men and Walder's and the Lannister scouts as you said were hanged up to feed the crows

Catlin thinks that is such a major Walder move hold back, wait watch, take no risk unless he must and Rob doesn't necessarily see it that way andatelyn reminds him that defending his land is one thing, and battling Tywin is another ask entirely. So Rob asks Theon if the Blackfish has found a way to cross the Green Fork, but turns out the water is running too high, too fast, and cannot be forded. running too high, too fast, and cannot be forded. Yeah, and when you get to the end of A Storm of Swords there,

it's the same thing, right? That the water is just, it won't be this low again. This is the only time they can come back. So I love that it traps them on the way in, and then it does not trap them on the way out, but they get trapped somehow else. And Rob is pissed again right he's right back to that uh that young rob mad anger he is like i gotta have this crossing there's no ifs ands buts i have to and he determines tywin is marching north we don't have time to cross the river on our horses with armor lord fray is the only way theon pipes up saying we could fight our

way through as we easily have five times lord walder's numbers but catelyn says that would not be easy and we do not have the time if we spend time assaulting him tywin will come take us in the rear yeah so this is meant to contrast catelyn's own wisdom of course right in several ways theon's advice which is not good advice that of course her first inclination isn't violence because how could it be right she hasn't been socially conditioned for it to be what she turns to it's not something that she's often had power over at the same time right again we're seeing a lot of theon and it's building up his own character right that idea of like oh you know what's a good idea trying to take a castle that

cannot be taken easily wonder what it means that i can't hold whatever i'll like pencil that thought in for myself later it's a kink put it right up there next to my dad doesn't love me yep that's the angry joy rob looks to his mom looking just for a moment far younger than his 15 years and he's like what would father do she responds ned would find a way across whatever it took whatever it takes i know i could make it through if lord valdefray oh my god okay so i love this dialogue with her and rob that ned would find a way across whatever it took because john 8 is literally the next chapter, right? So John says, talking to Eamon, he would do whatever was right, no matter what, about his father, about Ned.

And again, this is Ned becoming that myth in those chapters. And I love that wordplay being kind of paired against itself. love that wordplay being kind of paired against itself. And coming back to those rebellion hints that kind of end off of Ned's chapter, we continue to get these hints of Rhaenys and Aegon's deaths and what betrayal that really was in the next chapter, in Jon's chapter from Aemon. Aemon says to him, my ravens would bring the news from the south, words darker than their wings, the ruin of my house, the death of my kin, disgrace, desolation. What could I have done, old, blind, frail? I was helpless as a suckling babe, yet still it grieved me to sit forgotten as they cut down my brother's poor grandson, and his son, and even the little children. children. This is setting up that betrayal and murder of the Stark Coalition for us and framing the Starks eventually for the reader to be associated in that Martell Targaryen loss,

right, to be associated in these are the next betrayed houses by the people that have milked this system for evil. It sets up the reader to actually associate these stories with these characters and to feel those same hurt feelings when they realize oh no another set of our heroes have been murdered by the Lannisters I think it's interesting how George likes to associate those same emotions for these characters and these arcs and kind of reel you in with it and play with that yeah absolutely I mean we talked a little bit about back then right likening Ned and Doran but here as you said they're they're setting that up and it's sandwiching catalan in it yeah and also because like you think that rob is going to stay alive but turns out rob is that other end right he's he's the brother that amen is talking

about like oh shit my family all died. They were all dying. And I mean, we even see that within this book, right? When Jon's like, all right, I'm going to desert now. I'm going to go. I'm going to go to my brother. They're like, are you sure? But when they're actually all cut down in the third book, he doesn't because he can't. Yeah.

And he makes his choice. It's bigger than him then. Yeah, absolutely. And I'll talk about this a little more later on as well in the same chapter. But I love how you brought up that echo of what Ned would do. And it comes back to he would do whatever it was right or whatever it takes. And the problem is those interpretations, right? whatever he thought was right but every single person in the world has i mean not everyone has the same morals right not everyone comes to everything with the same perspective what they think is right will differ and i think that that of course there are people who are willing to do whatever is right whatever it takes to do what is right but you know like not not everyone does robert baratheon wasn't willing to do whatever was right.

He knew it was right. He wasn't willing to do it. But those who are, it differs. And Rob and John, I think, even have different interpretations, as we see, of what is right. And I think Rob also especially has a very different interpretation of what is right from his father. Yeah.

Well, and I think there's something interesting in john interpreting it differently too because john has that opposite thing for now until we someday get the wins a winner which is coming next week look under your chair it's there everyone you get a wins you get a wins oh i wish i could do that for all of you i wish that you could be like on on the phone with us this isn't on the phone i wish i could do that for all of you i wish that you could be like on on the phone with us this isn't on the phone i wish you could all be on the podcast listening with us and then all of a sudden look under your chair and there it is but you know john will have to probably face kingship in different manners throughout the rest of his plot and right now

it's the opposite right because he has stripped of those titles he finds a different way to cope with some of those things until he doesn't until he tries to save aria but for rob it's the opposite right like he is playing under a different set of rules than john gets to now play under yeah and i think this is something where rob actually internalizes some of uh ned's parenting and catelyn's parenting but maybe more of catelyn's right because she's also the parent that we see closer to him right now and she's the one who kind of shows like and as we've discussed

believes that the world the world's rules hold true and so when Rob makes the choices that he does and what he thinks is right he's choosing what is right within those same societal rules. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And, you know, the next morning we have Brynden Tully rejoin them. And if there's anyone that is just living a much better life right now, here with this rebellion group, it is Brynden Tully, because he is in lighter leather and mail with his obsidian fish still fastening his cloak but he's just fashionable uh he himself and you know he is obviously where cadeline has learned a little bit of this battle stuff as well not just from ned so he's back he's free he feels free he's out there swashbuckling with his sword not chained down at the eerie he can move freely and it almost reminds me of i want to say it was a jamie chapter where he has this like inner

monologue about having a sword in his hand and how it feels and that freedom right i think it's while he's training with ill and pain or fighting with brianna i don't know something and something about that ecstasy and like that freedom that it gives him and i'm reminded of that here for brendan and how he's described as looking lighter i like that good for him but yeah he doesn't look happy though he doesn't i mean it's a it's a mix right he's free but things are things are difficult right now you know there was a battle under riverrun's walls and the kingslayer destroyed edmure's host and sent the Lords of the Trident reeling in flight. Also, Edmure was taken prisoner.

Not the only time this is going to happen. Wounded. Edmure's got a rough go of it. Anyways. I do feel bad for him here. I feel bad for him a lot. Lord Blackwood again. And others.

They are under siege. They're surrounded by jamie's host jamie does a lot of things in the rebel ones overall uh and worse lord fray has pulled his strength back within his walls and his gates are closed and barred and so again here we are i love this rob thinks he isn't gonna have a choice but to pull the twins down if walder doesn't let them cross which kind of reminds me again to come back to that rebellion of ned pulling down the tower of joy after dealing with the king's guard who were not letting him cross now that i say it uh catalan totally talks rob down she's like you're kind of sounding bratty you're being a sulky brat

child right now you're a lord not a child and lords must learn that words can accomplish what swords cannot it also reminds me a little of that scene of sweet robin wright stomping the castle speaking yeah it is a bratty thing to do and you know i'm gonna say two different things here they're both both kind of contradictory, but just go with it. It's a fictional book and not real life. So coming back to something we discussed last episode about we were talking about how teenagers and leadership positions making bad diplomatic or actually very undiplomatic choices. Now it led to an era that was very heated right because people were making rash choices because they were teenagers and anyway also you know that that plays into how kat becomes this role and the advice that she gives as a negotiator right these these teenage boys are interested

in bravado fighting shows of strength they think that's the way to get things done and i mean also i guess the end's a pretty big influence in rob's life not the best influence and he's older so anyway um but in terms of what cat does and why she's like you know words can accomplish what swords cannot i want to bring up this statistic from the council on foreign relations that was studied by Desiree Nielsen. Well, it's on the Council on Foreign Relations page. There's actually a different study elsewhere, but it's cited a lot. Anyways, the point is, peace negotiations that include women are more likely to last. The participation of civil society groups, including women's organizations, make peace agreements 64% less likely to fail. know it's framed like as less likely to fail and I feel like that language is

pointed and I don't need to put a negative construction on it but I feel like these people are are experts and they pick those words for a reason that I don't know enough of but that seems uh yeah so anyway I want to bring that up. That's interesting. But also, on the other hand, on the completely different side, when it comes to, you know, things that still, like, involve killing, also related to Walder Frey and Tywin Lannister, again, that line of words can accomplish what swords cannot. There's that line that Tywin says to Tyrion of, some battles are won with swords and spears, others with quills and ravens. Though it is kind of a lie because swords were still involved, but whatever. Well, you know, that's why he wins, because when the villains know the smart stuff, shit goes haywire.

I'm telling you. But no, that is interesting about the thing you said about women, the women's organizations and women being present in peace agreements, you know, makes it generally better off than it was before. And I'm just curious if that's because women exist. Well, that actually literally is part of it, right? Because especially if it's like in places of... In the society, but within. of in the society well within actually no literally because in places with conflict right there are like correlations between gender equity and peace within like countries and areas and women being at the negotiation table they are you know they'll be less rash but they'll also

ensure the security of women's rights and things like that in the rebuilding process which helps with societal stuff because if you want to build back well you got to make sure that you know half your economy is there and can do shit so that is what i was facetiously implying yeah no but you're i mean that's true it's it's real i was just saying because women you know exist actually places again literally well it's important just to include them you know like i don't know i just wouldn't order dinner for somebody without asking what they wanted shit the woman is important too but again literally to quote aria but she didn't say but literally to quote aria woman exist

well i don't want to get too far into the female perspective uh rob doesn't quite understand what cadeline means when she says this about swords and ink quills and all that jazz and she's like words she's like rob the frays have held this crossing for 600 years and they never fail to exact their toll rob asks what the toll is and she says that it is what we must discover it's a surprise rob and what if i do not choose to pay this toll then you would best retreat back to moat caitlin deploy to meet lord Tywin in battle, nor grow wings.

I see no other choice. Well, yeah. I mean, when you don't pay the toll, you get a bill later on, and it's usually way more expensive than the toll you would have paid from my own experiences. And sometimes if you steal your toll money back you can do that they will kill you oh no but i was making a metaphor too i'm sorry i was making a metaphor too sorry i thought you were talking from experience like you reached into the little thingy and i was like what the shit anyway you're like is this a life hack i did think that you know you gotta pay the troll toll to get

into the twins you actually do catalan puts her heels to her horse leaving rob to ponder what she said she knows she shouldn't make him feel like she's usurping his place and she thinks did you teach him wisdom as well as valor ned did you teach him how to kneel the graveyard of the seven kingdoms were full of brave men who had never learned that lesson yeah so that book ends with rob not kneeling um spoiler oh yeah oh yeah but also it's an interesting question because yeah rob isn't the king who knelt and that is very much a legacy of the Starks in the north the king who

kneels will probably be Jon also though to be fair right now this is one thing but after the next chapter I mean it's like how we just saw the river lord get killed which spurred the riverlands into like you know hey, hey, fuck that.

We're not standing for that. Oh, yeah. And when they kill Ned, it's over. When Ned's dead, it's over, dude. That's it. I mean, there's no, it's over. It makes sense because it's as much of like, yeah, Torr and Stark is part of the Stark legacy, but so are, of course, Brandon and Rickard. And it's like that same cycle all over again.

How can you kneel to that? When they keep killing your lords. Exactly, and you can't. And, I mean, it makes sense that it's unjust, but also it's also a matter of literal power, right? Like, they can go toe-to-toe with the Lannisters as we see, like, the next two books. Also, the Lannisters don't have dragons.

It's a different calculus entirely. I mean, the Lannisters have to socially cheat to win. Yeah. Absolutely. They land, finally, outside of the Twins. It's about midday, and they make for the massive, smooth, gray rock bridge. It's wide enough for two wagons to pass. We'll see that come to fruition later in the Arya chapter, right? Haha, sad. With a water tower rising in the center. It had taken the Freys three generations

to complete this, and when they had finished, they threw timber keeps on either bank to keep trespassers from heading through. The timber, though, had given way and was now stone, and they had the twins, two very ugly, formidable castles with heavy oak and iron gates. One glance is sufficient enough to tell Catelyn that this castle could not be taken by storm of swords. Drawbridge up, Portcullis down gates barred the great john begins to curse car start glowers in silence and ruse points out this cannot be assaulted yeah taller degrees no siege either even if they had the time which they do not and i'm just like

yawn we already know catelyn already told us all of this earlier tell us something we don't know i know there was like i will say since it is our abc you know our our elementary first book there's a lot of i have to get have this bridge i have to be able to cross this bridge like i'm and like then it's the guys repeating the same things rob already said at the beginning of the chapter i'm like c Catalin said that. Rob said that. Come on, George, get to the meat. But that's okay.

That's okay. It's Game of Thrones. It is a little repetitive in this chapter, but it actually is. Rob has that exact same sequence twice within this. I don't know if it is as repetitive. It's probably also because we've reread this chapter before, not just for this episode. It's not the first reread. We always joke this is a reread podcast, but we unfortunately have spent probably a good

portion of our lives reading this book now. Yeah, this is the book that I read the most often because I sometimes get stuck in my reread. Then I'm like, should I get a sort of or again? It's an easy book to read for this reason. I don't know that I would have noticed a lot of the repetition. my reread then I'm like should I get a sword over again it's an easy book to read for this reason I mean I don't know that I would have noticed a lot of the repetition there's more repetition as we keep going that comes up sure that I also think some of it as you look through the book is just

like George trying on hats and being like no this hat doesn't look quite nice on me after all it's not as bad as some of the repetition that is I think think, in my opinion, glaring and kind of flawed in fire and blood. No, that's fair. That's really fair. It is. We discussed that in some of our episodes, which are all on our Patreon if you would like to take a look.

But let's take a look here at the castle. They're examining the castle. We're examining the castle. And then one of Alder's weaselly sons appears. It's Stevran Frey, his heir. Stevran is past sixty, with grandchildren of his own, but he's polite enough. He asks, who leads the mighty

host? And Rob pushes his horse forward. He was in his armor with the dire wolf shield of Winterfell strapped to his saddle, and Greywind padding by his side the old knight looked at her son with a faint flicker of amusement in his watery gray eyes though his gelding wickered uneasily and sidled away from the dire wolf so reading this i think that

the reader is supposed to feel a little annoyed right on behalf of rob and katlyn the way that the frays are acting and it is infuriating but I also had to stop and wonder with this, would I have felt different in Severn's shoes? I don't really know I probably wouldn't but also at the same time

maybe I would be a little different in that I would definitely ask to pet the dog I'd ask to pet the terrifying murder dog. And then I would invite everyone into my father's house so that the dog could stay longer and we could be friends. You know, I've literally seen you ask to pet so many dogs that, like, this doesn't surprise me. It doesn't.

If there's a dog, she'll pet it. So, I don't know. I also, like like it's kind of funny because rob did just show up outside his door in a rebel cosplay with a dog you know like i get it yeah i mean like they're like hey we're on our way to anime central can you let us in and he's trying to grow a beard he's a kiddo okay so i mean yeah looks can be deceiving you know who knew the kid was gonna tear it up at the whispering wood i didn't he's a proddo, okay? So, I mean, looks can be deceiving. You know, who knew the kid was going to tear it up at the Whispering Wood? I didn't know that.

He's a prodigy. He's literally a genius at this. That is kind of the big part of this, right? Because this chapter is such a gamble because he is not yet known to be a prodigy. Like, we don't know that Rob's going to somehow just kick everyone's ass. But, I mean, yeah. I mean, he's leading well so far but like we just don't know that he's about to like open a can of 15 year old whoop ass on everyone and i think that's part

of the point right not only is it a wolf right going back to the whole dog thing he's the underdog in this yeah kid wonder absolutely hey sport hercules i mean it is crazy like absolutely hey sport hercules i mean it is crazy like it's hercules shit you know kid wonder sport yeah well nonetheless stevron invites rob to share meat and mead with walder in the castle and of course to explain his purpose here his words are not really welcomed by the lords they all disapprove loudly and they're like he mustn't go lord walder isn't to be trusted and then of course ruse bolton pipes up and he's like go in there alone and you're his he can sell you to the lannisters throw you in a dungeon or slit your throat as he likes interesting i just have to say this one officer put him under arrest i think he's the one if we

just arrest him now we can prevent the other books there's just like red flags all over red flags all over the twins red flags all over ruse bolton like oh my god everyone take off your rose-colored glasses. You don't have to say that, Ruse. Right. Jesus. Right. Interesting. Leon's like, we should just murder this castle. It's weak enough. We should murder weak castles, Rob. And then Ruse is like, well, what if you got murdered by the Lannisters in a really specific way? Just curious.

Asking for a friend. Asking for a friend. The friend is my bastard son and me but yeah yeah i will say side note though i mean he's not the only one who's like i don't know that it's a good idea that you go in there right ruse is the only one who like has very specific strange fantasies about what really happens but everyone's kind of got the same idea uh but is everyone just traumatized right from a from Ares' reign? I mean, obviously it's a threat regardless, and they know how this works,

but that's kind of what happened to Ares with, you know, at Duskendale. He got trapped. That is a great point. It's like a, it's a consistent thing for the Lannisters. Yes. To help entrap kings. Yeah, so. It's a point. It's a good point.

Wendell, Manderly, and Willis both declare that, you know what? Walder Frank should just invite all of us in. Or, he should get his ass down here and come treat here in front of all of us. All of his men and ours. And Catelyn, of course, shares all of these doubts. She and catelyn of course shares all of these

doubts she's like everyone has a point but she's also not stupid and she sees that stefran does not look very happy about this and realizes if they keep going with this like line of discussion they're gonna lose their chance entirely i mean it is fairly insulting to just say that shit in front of someone yeah oh my god i was re i don't know if it has ever stood out so strongly but i was like a little thrown i was like can you guys shut the fuck up you're gonna get us all killed now it's so we have two whole books it's very discourteous it is discourteous and i don't know they should have discussed it beforehand actually his his lord yeah that's the thing they're having a war council out loud and in front of you know possible enemies yeah i don't know just don't slander your

possible hosts to their face my god have a little decency yeah what is the north behind their back wait steverin, could you turn around? Well, Catelyn finally sucks it up and she declares, I will go. Walder is my father's bannerman. I've known him since I was a girl and he would never offer me any harm. But she does think, unless he saw a profit in it, but she keeps that to herself. Some lives were necessary. Interesting. Sounds like something that happens in one of her daughter's storylines both of them actually about that when they think about it oh yeah aria keeping

her lies to herself and her stark identity in her heart and both have a lot of lies lies in arbor ah gold yeah less arbor gold in aria's story though just gold well yeah i mean she's saying it to comfort everyone which is a lot of what those lies are that come up in sansa storyline but it's also not settled out here and i'm sure that all of you can piece it together but it's not just that catelyn is the one who knows Walder Frey the best and that Walder Frey is her father's bannerman part of her going, we started this discussion a little last week when we were discussing the value of women and girl hostages and

Cat goes and treats Walder Frey partially because again she buys into those Westerosi codes of conduct she thinks people are going to probably behave themselves probably but she also knows that i don't know so much with walder fray it's still a gamble but she also believes herself expendable as his mother as a woman and especially compared to her son who's leading the host of the north right now and i mean yeah she actually is better equipped to treat with Walder in many, many, many different ways. And she also has the power, as we've seen,

to make certain agreements in her family's name. That's a big part of it too, because they're, you know, this is part of what it meant at the beginning of the chapter when she knew she had to be a Stark and not a Tully. That means having the power to make those agreements on Rob's behalf because also then she has to ask a Stark has to ask whereas I think that a Tully may or may not have had a little more leverage to order Lord Frey I mean obviously it only goes so far because you know there's

4,000 men here and not at Riverrun but whatever whatever. That's true. But I also do think that that's also the doing in factor here, right? Not only that, not only that a Tully could have maybe perhaps tried to order Lord Frey and does pull a little more weight, but that's also the doing in factor that he... How do I put this? Walder Frey fucking hates the tullies fucking walder frey has a tramp stamp that says fuck the tullies okay he's all like fuck those muppets he fucking hates them he's like fuck that one fuck that one fuck that one because he's old he's known a lot of them and every single one of the ones as we're about to hear that he like has known in the past

oh couple decades has personally hurt him right like grudge worthy personally hurt him and he's been harboring that resentment for so long so it's a bummer because it makes sense like obviously she's gonna go talk to him she's the closest in relation in general to Walder Frey, but it's kind of doomed from the start. From that get-go. It is. Yeah, we love doom. Stevron leaves his brother, Perwin, as insurance, and Rob says he will be their honored guest. He requests Catelyn's return by evenfall, and Stevron gives him a polite nod.

Walder's sons and envoys fall in around her as she heads in and she remembers what her father once said walder is the only lord in the seven kingdoms who could field an army out of his breaches they entered a 20 living sons 36 grandsons 19 great grandsons numerous daughters bastards grand bastards and they all stand in the hall as she arrives she now understands what her father meant walder himself is a 90 year old pink weasel bald gaudy his new wife looks to be a frail girl of 16 the eighth lady fray yeah they're actually all described as looking very much like weasels and i just think of like a pack of the pokemon young goose and gumshoes like in the middle in the middle walder fray is

like a bald gumshoes and then everyone's like a little young goose around i don't know that i've seen them but i'm gonna take your word and look it up. You should. They are fun Pokemon. I don't know what they look like, but I'm imagining them to look like Walder. Maybe we'll put them in the show notes. Oh my god. Katelyn greets him sweetly, but Walder asks her to spare her the sweet words. Yes, why are you here? And oh, is Rob too proud to come before him? Get a glimpse at that chip

on his shoulder that you were talking about. The last time that Catelyn visited the twins, she was just a girl, but Walder hadn't really changed much. He was just as blunt as then, and age had only made him worse. She knows she must choose her words carefully. Stevern sticks up for her and is

like, hey, she is a guest, Dad. And he's like, I'm not dead yet, so shut the fuck up, Steverin. Dude, this chapter's gold. Chloe was really excited to do this chapter. She doesn't usually hype up right before we record on Twitter, but she was hyping it up it's the frailer park boys man I love the frailer park boys this chapter is just gold

you know like there's another one of the younger sons of Walder and he's like dad this is a noble guest like you should definitely be nice and he's like you're nothing but a little sperm that fell out of me bastard he doesn't say that but he basically says that and he's like oh you're nothing but a little sperm that fell out of me, bastard. He doesn't say that, but he basically says that. And he's like, oh, now my bastards presume to teach me courtesy. He just doesn't care. He's so old. I can't wait to be that old someday.

I'm going to be so mean. So, of course, Walder has a smackdown every time, right? He has golden lines like, I'll speak any way I like damn you. I've had three kings to guest in my life and queens as well. Do you think I require lessons from the likes of you? Your mother was milking goats the first time I gave

her my seed. Damn. You can see how he and Bruce get along, I guess. I mean, you know, it's kind of a shit show, and I think that's why I like it so much. They are a shit show. Even just like... So watching this scene play out, you almost sympathize for the dumb motherfucker because... I'm the villain, right? Okay, boo me.

This is still an anti-Frey account, everyone. Still an anti-Frey account. But Walder is very similar to Catelyn in some aspects of the whole buying into the societal values and playing into them. He's done the same thing Catelyn's supposed to do, right? He's pushed out kids, held his great keep,

and married them off correctly. And most of this dialogue between them, he's saying all the things publicly that she wishes. And she thinks all the time in her head and sometimes says to Rob, she has already thought or said most of the things he said in this chapter. But she can't say it out loud, right like she's not really allowed to say it constantly in front of great lords for that whole reason that walder is a lord and she is but a humble lady in his keep walder has had all these kids married all the ladies played the nice way for a little bit in his life back when he was like 14 for a second and uh still been shit on by the society and he took that and he's like i'm the

villain right he's like i'm gonna become the greatest riverlands villain he is totally trash and i don't know if i'd be that much classier if i had my own beautiful great keep i could be trash too but he hates these customs and these people the same people catalan hates the same customs she kind of hates but instead of subscribing to those customs conservatively which catalan kind of does he just shits in them and he comes wherever the fuck he wants and he's like boom everywhere is my fucking toilet and uh catalan knows this she knows like that's the difference between them that he's just this uncouth old man and she does leverage some of that like societal stuff against him with the tywin thoughts later i don't know i do think

it's interesting that no one underestimates his cunning necessarily they at least acknowledge his cunning but his uncouth behavior i think kind of i think it puts them off right and I don't know if Catelyn uh she feels almost blinded in that no one in her world could ever be that cruel and uncouth and still be accepted back into the societal contract after they betray it but obviously that's exactly what we see Walder Frey do throughout the story yeah that's true that's true and i mean like he's very much like craster right like he's doing all this shitty stuff and as you said very uncouth very cruel inhospitable very mean, and does a lot of terrible stuff. And he's allowed to get away with it because they need him.

Yep. They need the twins. And that's why he knows he can get away with it. And also, same with Craster, right? They need his resources. And Walder Frey, I think he knows that. He knows that he holds a powerful location in Castle. And he's like,

why doesn't anyone respect me more? And so now here's my tinfoil. Are all the lords negging him? Because they know how important this place is. Maybe in like two generations, when he's 110, and when A Dream of Spring has come out, turns out he was the author the whole time

oh my god I just thought maybe by then his valuable have fully gone down you know just like stocks I'm telling you it's all about the stocks man GameStop GameStop's gonna come along and just G M E Walter gestures

to two of his sons Danwell and Waylon to get him into his chair and he takes a seat a tall chair of black oak whose back is carved in the shape of two towers and a bridge fancy chair i'm really into that chair walder's wife covers his legs with a blanket and then he beckons cat forward laying a very dry papery kiss on her hand once the proper courtesies are observed he asks her why they're here which as we know and have heard all chapter is to cross his gates to riverrun catalin says that's where she thought she'd find him since you know he's one of lord hoster's bannermen he gives her a laughing grunt and he says he called his swords. She saw them on the walls.

As soon as his strength had assembled, he intended to march. Well, to send his sons, at least. He's a little past marching. So he looks around for confirmation. He's like, this was my plan, right? Everyone, someone back me up. He points to a stooped 50-year-old man, Jared,

asking him, tell her, tell her, Jared, tell her. And Jared agrees and says, on my honor. And I'm like, all right jared i name you liar bitch jared he went sir bitch yeah so i'm like uh who is this why would i trust this man i don't care about jared anyway walder frey ruins this very sweet moment he asks caitlin is it his fault that her full brother lost his battle before they could march there and then he's like i am told the kingslayer went through him like an axe to ripe cheese why should my boys hurry south to die all those who did go south are running north again i'm like the man has a point look again

anti-Walder Frey account but the man makes a couple points in this chapter I don't know points are made yeah Catelyn thinks about how she would like to spit roast Walder Frey over a fire if she could but she knows that they have to get

that bridge open and she has to speak to him in private, and coming back to some of that stuff earlier about is it foreshadowing? I'm also like, is this cannibalism? Anyway. Mmm. Anyway. Interesting. Thoughts, thoughts.

He tells all of his kin to get out, get out of the room. Calvin wants to talk to me in private, including his wife. He tells her to leave, and when they're finally gone, he leans in and confesses to Cat that all of his family is waiting for him to die. Severn's been waiting 40 years,

but he keeps disappointing them. And Catlin tells him that she has every hope that he'll live to 100, and he thinks that that would purely boil all of them. You know, I mean, like, he's just holding on for, like, for his own sake and for out of spite

because he's proud. He could have stepped down. J.R. Moore wanted it. His son's stupid, though, and I hate him. Anyways, enough of these niceties. Not just mine, but also Walder's. Walder wants the truth, and Catelyn tells him

they want to cross. Again, I didn't know they were gonna cross that bridge, but now that we've come to it, I am excited for this imagery, because it's got some pretty obvious heavy imagery-laden stuff going on here, right?

As they cross over the river, it's a transition into death eventually, deliverance. And Catelyn can see both of the riverbanks. We get a good view on them in this chapter. From one end to the other, she sees her different stages of her life, chapters of her life changing. That bridge is going to bring her to the death of her father right to widowhood and and later that bridge is going to take her to her death the twins become a sort of necropolis for the stark coalition a city of the dead

and i i know eliana usually i let you do all the river talking you know a rubicon of sorts especially with that famous die being cast later at the end, a la Caesar. Absolutely. Yeah, it's not Catelyn's Rubicon, right? It does, it's more of Rob's. Rob's point of no return, especially with the way that his story plays out and how he reacts to some of the

promises that are made here. I think you know, we should highly consider calling it not just like the Rubicon, but a Robicon. Robstartcon? Robstartcon, where we all cosplay like Rob is cosplaying. We all show up, king in the north, headwear on, little doggos. Oh my god, yes.

Actually, this is my favorite convention idea. That's literally just Ice and Firecon. Yeah, but there's not enough dogs. There could be more. There's at least three wolves. There is at least, yeah, a couple. There could be more. And dogs.

Okay. Well, Walder asks why he should let Catelyn and her crew pass over his bridge. And for a moment, she's pretty pissed. She's like, if you're strong enough to climb your battlements you'll see the 20 000 men i have outside your window but walter's like and there'll be 20 000 fresh corpses when tywin gets here and then he lays down some mean stuff and he's like don't you try and frighten me my lady your husband's in some traitor's cell under the red keep your father's sick might be dying and jamie lannister's got your brother in chains what do you have that

i should fear that son of yours i'll match you son for son i'll still have 18 when yours are all dead damn very rude it's true though he, yeah, he's absolutely right. I mean, he doesn't care about his kids, right? As we learned later at the Red Wedding, he's like, I don't know, fuck them kids. But actually, though, he's like, I hate them all. They all just want me to die. Maybe if he was a nicer dad.

I don't know. It's amazing that not everyone has, like, daddy issues in the phrase. I guess they had each other to lean on. Anyway. Again, it's not like Walder actually cares about his that not everyone has daddy issues in the frays. I guess they had each other to lean on. Anyway, again, it's not like Walder actually cares about his children, but it is an interesting point when you think about it in the context of gambling and how you were talking about the last

line of the chapter, the die was cast. I mean, Walder Frey can make some of these risky moves and sail this because he has more to spare, he has more to gamble with. Yeah. He doesn't really have uh close bonds with them i mean his air he fucking hates he's playing it as a quantity game not a quality game as we find out when we look at the rest of the phrase yeah walder invented spares you know what i mean with his cock 90 years ago oh my god i mean he was fortunate i

guess that i guess he was very fertile he could have been john that man comes wherever he wants is what i'm saying he could have been john aaron you know and like yeah that's true anyway uh ketlin reminds walter fray that he swore an oath to lord hoster but walter fray interestingly counters that he he swore oaths to the crown too and that King Joffrey would actually call your son and the fools with him rebels. And I thought that was an interesting point, especially from Walder Frey

who, as we know, ends up siding with the Lannisters and the crown. But it's meant to remind us, of course, of Robert's Rebellion, right? Harkening back to that again, but it also reminds me a little of course of robert's rebellion right hearkening back to that again but it also reminds me a little of in speaking of the lannisters this same sort of proposition and the same question comes up again in catelyn's chapters at the end of a clash of kings when she's talking

to jamie lannister and he gives that very famous speech of so many oaths they make you swear and swear and that's the position that they're putting the phrase in right now yeah that's interesting to bring Jaime right back into this and bringing the rebellion up into it right because I think this is actually the first time uh this is referred to as a rebellion which is really good timing and pacing on George's part with where we are in the story, right? With only two Catalan chapters left in the book. This is the first time it's called a rebellion, and this is what it fully embodies soon. Yeah, interesting.

Back to Walder. You know, we talked about repetition a little bit ago, and here he says, if I had the sense, I'd help the Lannisters boil y'all. And she's like, well, why don't you just do that then? And of course it comes down to Tywin, right? Proud, splendid, golden, a lion. I did notice Walder use boiling so many times in this chapter, and for a bit I was like, I don't know, maybe it's foreshadowing towards like eventual fray pie

in a way of boil them all you know boil all my kin let them boil about it let them get pissed but to be fair in John 8 LC does say it Lord Commander does also use boil and he says tell Hob if he sends me boiled

mutton again I'd like to boil him so I wonder if it was just one of those cute things that George was like, I'm going to play with this phrase for a while and see if it works. Yeah, I think it's, you know, every now and then he gets stuck on a phrase, right? I wonder if boil was one of those. But it's interesting. Ha, ha, a phrase? Oh.

Got him. Got him. But, yeah, I wonder if it's something that he kind of just got stuck on like he does or if it's like maybe back then he thought he was gonna boil them as you were saying instead of putting them in pies i mean like we have the bowls of brown right like so we have a sort of precedent for cannibalism in the context i mean he might have boiled the meat is all i'm saying first you know they might have boiled the meat before they served those pies before they baked it yeah sometimes that's easier if you get a little boil going and then you sear

yeah yeah i mean i haven't made i haven't made a a meat pie yet um so maybe we should make meat pies sometimes oh my god can you believe that we're coming up with this plan while talking about cannibalism actually yes i can would you all like to make meat pies does anyone want to try chloe and my meat pies that we bake please send us an rsvp back to walder you know he just goes off on tangents and i really do like that and he does go off and he's talking about taiwan and he says i'll wager you he eats too many beans he breaks wind just like me but you'll never hear him admit it oh no what's he got to be so puffed up about anyway only two sons and one of them's a twisted little monster.

I'll match him son for son, and I'll still have nineteen and a half left when all of his are dead. If Lord Tywin wants my help, he can bloody well ask for it. And that's it. That tells Catelyn what she needs to hear

about what Wallerframe wants, and so she makes her move she asks him humbly for his help and that her father brother husband and sons are asking with her voice but Walder just calls these sweet words which he already gets from his I guess 16 year old wife and anyway I love this moment though because it does remind me of those moments that we talked about in Davos's chapters where he is in the role of a diplomat as a negotiator, and he's talking with some of these lords, some high, some not so high, to get a sense of them until he finally susses out what he needs, like what they want, so that he can begin the bargaining to get what he needs which is sometimes just like his life right it's also passage oftentimes and caitlin i think is the og of this process in these books right here in book one this is it this is one of those first times that we see that happening and what walder frey wants turns out it's kind of simple when you think

about it he just wants respect. He wants his pride. Yeah, even here, you know, he says, what does he have that I don't fucking have? I have all these things. I have children. I have a great keep. How come it's Lord Tywin that runs the realm? And Hoster, you know, to an extent as we continue hearing. Because even here, he goes on.

Oh, yes.. Oh yes. Oh yes, Walder is going to keep telling us his grievances. He tells Catelyn he'll have sons on his new wife soon enough. Perhaps he'll even make one heir which would just boil the rest of his kin. He goes on to explain he feels insulted by her father.

He didn't come to the last wedding, let alone the recent one, even if he is dying i love that damn i was like damn walter you're petty as fuck so that means he came to the last six ones right yeah that's kind of what that sounds like how many more does he need to come to like i mean after like okay even if like my friends got married like yeah i think i'd stop by the seventh also. Are you trying to tell me you wouldn't come to my seventh wedding? Huh.

Um, so... The conversation does turn a little darker for Waldo as well. He calls her out on Hoster, calling him the late Lord Frey, reminding her he'd outlive her father like the rest of them. I mean, she was calling him that just a hot second ago. Your family has always pissed on me. Don't deny it. Don't lie.

You know it's true, he says. He tells her years ago he wanted a match between Edmure and one of his daughters, one particularly in mind who was sweet, but he had others if Edmure didn't like her. He says virgins widows old ones young ones whatever admir wants but hoster wouldn't hear of it just sweet words and excuses and to some extent why would hoster do that right when both of his daughters married the lords of great houses why would he marry his heir to river run to a fray after that like and especially when the question now is what does

that marriage gain him before the rebellion and you know especially before like southern ambitions we see a lot more lords marrying their vassals obviously some of them would like marry across that too right but that happened a lot more often and reinforcing those bonds in power and the sort of dedication that the lords have to their vassals. But as the lords were preparing for their plan and the southern ambition stuff, these marriages became much more about building alliances across Westeros and what could be gained. So why marry off your heir to a house that should already be pledged to you anyway? You gain nothing. And frankly, even Robb's oath here fits that pattern, actually, of the southern ambition strategy. So it does make a little

sense in that by marrying a Frey, is it's outside of the north he is gaining power over the twins and the right to pass through it to some extent the catch is that it's less valuable and chloe's going to talk about this more later because well so many other houses have done it too right including the other great houses like the lannisters so means jack shit but i also find it so interesting how part of what Walder takes great pride in, his power, as we've pointed out, is that there are so many Freys. He can make more of those risky moves because there's going to be more of them left, so he's like, fuck it, whatever, let's just keep going, keep playing.

We can keep betting back in. And he boasts of it very often to Kat in this chapter, which I think makes it even more interesting that Lady Stoneheart's strategy of revenge at the moment seems to be that she is picking those frays off and whittling away at their strength. Yeah, that is a... He's not gonna have enough for a football team by the time she's done. Holy shit, you know?

Or a tennis team is what her goal is. Not enough for... Get it? Because it's like one person. It is interesting that this is what her dead consciousness has picked up, right? Like, this is what Uncat is doing. She's like, oh, yeah, Walder Frey,

you're going to sit there and tell me that my 18 sons will outlast all of yours? My 18 sons will outlast all of yours? Well, fuck you, Walder Frey. Yeah. She's like, if I can't have kids, no one can have kids. You can't have kids.

Nobody can, nobody. It is. So powerful. Gatekeep, Gaslight, Girlboss. Oh my god. Well, and that's not the only family member he has a problem with, right? Like, not just Edmure. Yeah.

Also Liza. Your sister. Yeah, he goes on and he's like, she's full as bad. He recants this whole tale. First, he gets a little tangential, right? You can't be mad at him there he's an old man he gets tangential he's like when i visited king's landing for john aaron's hand job tourney danwell and hostine and perwin rode while john aaron was there and

my kin shamed me i wish i hadn't even made the trip hit them and all my bastards were just awful in the melee and everything. He's just like straight up like shitting on his family for five minutes. And, you know, I can't blame Walder Frey here for doing that either, because how else are we going to get the exposition, Chloe? The important exposition that comes in Catelyn's chapters. You gotta love the exposition, especially when it has Walder Frey calling loris tyrell sir daisy

that's a that's a favorite of this chapter he's like ah that tyrell boy sir daisy uh he goes off topic and then he starts to talk about how the crate calls are sluts he's like oh the crate calls are sluts and then he's like oh yeah sorry sorry coming back to the topic I proposed lord and lady Aaron took two of my grandkids and offered to take that boy sweet Robin and you know they said no they got pissed blah blah blah and I do have

to ride for my idiot girl Amory Frey because she descends from the cray call line right she's the granddaughter of Amory Cray call his third wife and Amory Frey god bless her heart she's not very smart she's kind of a dumb bitch but she's very sexually positive and i love that about her i you know i think that's really important but it does kind of crack me up yeah yeah she does it for herself and i respect that you know she's out in that gatehouse speaking of spit roasts right but it's very interesting how he's like fuck that crate call a slut when every time

he has a kid and marries them off it actually devalues his stock right so like it's interesting that he's kind of like considering other people that are you know women for example that he's married their stock and calling them sluts and unworthwhile when it's like every time you marry a kid off you weaken your value especially because you're marrying to so many medium range alliances none of them are big time and they all cancel each other out so you have no protection and you're actually making things worse half the time for yourself it's very interesting i've played crusader kings is what i'm saying right and where catalan is encouraged to breed to bring several heirs and her value is kind of seen in that by some people in westeros each time walder does it it brings down his value in what he offers to westeros not not to mention his children and also not to mention the fucking

child brides that he's kidnapping and molesting for some sort of shitty sum of gold. Because, you know, feudalism is just kind of trafficking. But this is another example of Walder and Catelyn playing the same game, but both of them have to play by different sets of rules, right? He has a different set of rules than she has. And I think a lot of that comes through in the way that catalan evaluates this conversation she's playing diplomat to all of these lords and kings in their own right throughout this book in the next and we see her actually having to choose these different angles and lenses right like here where she chooses a humble tone when she speaks to

him even though she really wants to just slit his throat. And we see that obviously later with Daenerys and now with Daenerys tackling that as well as Arion after she too rolls a bag of dice like Robb Stark does at the end of this chapter. And it turns out not so hot for her either. Yeah, it's going to get hot probably. A lot of things are going to happen in Daenerys' life probably. And, you know, when you're talking about walder fray's value

i think another part of it is when he holds in the twins as you as you said it's devalued because all those alliances cancel each other out so it's just messy to get into like what's the fucking point what's the fucking you don't like get any sort of control over the twins and you know in terms of his devaluation also in producing all of those heirs part of it is that decorum right like it is like still those weird double standards i mean westerosi culture just presumes that men have sexual appetites right like that comes up in caitlin's chapters and she's like yeah i guess i expected ned to fuck while he was out at war but i didn't expect him to bring home a bastard i thought he had some class my god well that's the thing that they think walter fray is unclassy i mean i guess he marries his women but he keeps just like popping out children whereas some of them stop you know

tywin lannister doesn't remarry right he feels his legacy is secure haha got him yeah it was interesting um yeah he doesn't remarry uh some of them do some of them don't right but it's that walter does so open does it so openly that it's considered obscene and i don't mean this as a double standard in terms of like you know why but like also george does kind of use it as a way to signal to the audience it's like not a double standard in that walter's oppressed for it i think it's more of just like no yeah george is using it as a way to signal to readers and the audiences that walter fray isn't really morally good like not just like morally great right he's on the darker shades of that spectrum which as we see happens in the third book but anyways you see a lot of

again similarities in how walder and craster are written and craster is like a decidedly like shitty dude right i mean killing your sons and forcing and raping your daughters like that's that's pretty objectively shitty and walder frey is not exactly like that but he's written so similarly and also a lot of the insults that walder levies at cat they are discourteous they're very gendered and you know very sexually harassing in nature right and it's not just in terms of class it's just rude and and it's reminiscent of how joffrey is framed or to an even more extreme extent, Gregor and Ramsay. They're all on that same spectrum. And at times it can be a little lazy.

Like, this is, I think, one of the biggest mechanics that George uses to characterize and signal to the readers, like, this character is bad. Because a lot of the other characters do. I mean, a lot of murder happens in this story. A lot of stealing, a lot of other things that are legal or might be considered immoral but those are you know he changes the circumstances around to be like is this justified is this not and i think the only thing that george has decided is objectively wrong for the most part is that sexual assault and those kinds of things and so you see it when it so it stands out when he really builds that into those characters yeah i mean all he's missing are fat lips right yeah worm lips i mean

yeah there's no worm lips give me a worm lip george yeah give me two worms fucking on his face that's that's actually like he uses it that's how i know it's a villain okay that is how i know i don't understand villains unless those lips are worms yeah uh i love that walder like during the storytelling he goes out of it to try to remember details and he's like which grandkids did i try to send to court were they even worthy to go to court? And then he just gives up. He gives up on remembering which ones they were. Then he's like, eh, I have other ones. Right?

Either way, Lord Erendon and Wally's boys. Everyone's remarkably not traumatized. Yeah, they all kind of fended for themselves, it seems, for sure. Oh, God. They're surviving in that social social environment somehow that's amazing either way lord erin did not want the boys which of course walder blames liza for well probably was partially sweet robin yeah i believe it made no matter though yeah me too right it made no matter because lord aaron said the child was going to dragon stone

to foster with stannis and liza stormed off leaving john aaron with only apologies just want to weigh in yet another person who heard the story is dragon stone first starting to feel intentional i i also think what if all i'm afraid just left the kids at court anyway he should just he wouldn wouldn't have noticed. You deal with these now. I know, right? He's like, I don't care. He would never have noticed. I mean, he doesn't even know their names. My god. They'd find a place to sleep. He's like, maybe

they're Walder's, and luckily for him, they are, but... Anyway. We have this line. Catelyn frowned, disquieted. I had understood Liza's boy was to be fostered with Lord Tywin at Casterly Rock. No, it was Lord Stannis.

Walder Frey said irritably. Do you think I can't tell Lord Stannis from Lord Tywin? They're both bungholes who think they're too noble to shit. But never mind about that. I know the difference. Or you think I'm so old I can't remember. So Catalin is, of course, asking here for like a very serious reason, right? Which is, fuck, even Walder thinks it was Dragonstone and not Casterly Rock.

Was I lied to? Question mark, question mark, question mark uh but of course walder takes this as a slight i mean right here he takes it as a slight oh you think i'm too old too stupid which is what you know he's seen some of the lords scoff at him about before uh not great not great you could watch his revenge plan and his feud forming throughout all of this and i will say like she does follow up she's like wait wait you're sure and then he starts realizing he he takes it less personally but then he comes back to the crossing just as catelyn is piecing

things together again and the gears start turning again like she's like this is maybe the second time she's about to think maybe this is the second time i've heard this and then we come back to the matters at hand and so we lose it again again just like how she almost grabbed it in the inn and and how she almost grabbed it at the veil and then the bells started ringing. Ugh. Always a distraction. Well, speaking of distractions, Lord Frey goes on talking about fucking his new wife, producing babies, but Catelyn's not listening. She, again,

is circling back to confirm about this. Jon Arryn, Stannis Business, he confirms it. We're back to talking about the crossing and he says that the Tullys and the Storks have never been his friends. And I asked her, why should he let her through? And then I love that it says the rest is, of course, just haggling. I love the description of what happens here as being haggling. I don't know that George was necessarily channeling this connotation.

But I think of haggling as, you know i i associate it with women particularly at a market maybe because like that's what i i've haggled i don't know just my personal life experiences um but you know trying to be at market get deals provide for their family sell goods things like that versus yeah women be shopping exactly you know like food things like that right versus if he had used the term i guess negotiation because that's what men do or whatever or something um but but that is what caitlin is doing she's doing both she's negotiating and she's haggling she's buying passage for her family but she's also you know using her family's coin but you know whatever whatever it's hey hey times

are hard war is hard but no it's trafficking as you said yeah i mean feudalism is literally trafficking it is funny because uh you have ned who is so afraid of marrying his children off because of you know everything that happened in his family at all and he's so afraid of letting his children go. And at the end of the last chapter, he says to Varys, just please promise you we'll keep my daughter out of any schemes,

any plots. And here Catelyn is kind of back against the wall. What she negotiates is, I mean, as we'll talk about in a second, it's pretty generous for Walder, but it's also, had it been executed, no pun intended, had it been executed no pun intended

had it been executed fully like and had they gone through with it i mean walder's obviously nursing a grudge he was never going to be happy he's an old man but also he might have been happy this like would have been the start of a new day for house fray walking good you know shooting finger guns and he gets more than he bargained for, right? He wanted to marry into the house of a great lord, and he's going to get a queen. Yeah, he doesn't even know that yet, but he will get a queen. And, you know, that's fair, too.

Like, he gets so much more than he bargained for, which, again, we see cat utilize that technique like she did with the men on the boat right with the sailors uh overpaying them and making sure they each get their money i mean it's just here they didn't deliver on the money and then kneecaps got broken you know what i mean yeah i do kind of wonder and we can talk about this later this episode but it's been brought up did caitlin promise too much should she have haggled the price lower i don't think walder would have accepted anything less i'm gonna be realistic that it would have been pretty shitty and i mean they also play fairly that is like the Starks play fair. Catelyn plays mostly fair that basically what she gives to him is

Walder will give the crossing as well as give swords to Rob. So that wasn't even originally in the thought Rob had, right? Like he didn't even he hoped that he would join the swords. But by the time they're about to go, she's about to go in. It's looking bleak. They didn't think there were going to be swords. Rob is going to leave 400 swords with 400 swords that are staying, right? Double their army up there that's staying at the twins.

Good faith. But he's going to give command to someone he trusts. He decides to leave Helm in Tallheart. And then Walder is going to send two grandsons to be fostered at Winterfell, age seven and eight. They'll need to send men to accompany them north. And Lord Frey's son, Oliver, will serve as Rob's squire and hopes to be knighted. And when Arya returns safely, she is to marry Elmer Frey, Walder's youngest, when the two of them come to age, which Rob doesn't think Arya will like that one. Finally, Rob is going to marry one of the daughters right whichever he prefers so

is it a lot yes however she's not making up for just rob's toll this is not just paying rob's toll this is also paying the taxes her father hasn't paid you know this is paying for the sins of house tully which spoiler alert walder was never going to accept payment on from her yeah yeah and i guess she has to promise to some extent aria has to be promised if rob is going to agree you know yeah because i don't think he would have agreed if it was just him he'd be like why can't it be one of my younger siblings but if it's both he sees the price of it but i don't well and aria is kind of like spare change also as we know she's no one and they don't have her right she's promising something and they're like well i don't know if we can get this

one sure so that's not secure and obviously walder fray's like i don't know that doesn't sound promising for me that's fun since later Cersei is doing the same, right? Promising Arya, even though they most definitely do not have Arya. Like here, they don't have Arya, but they most definitely don't have Arya when Cersei makes those deals. Honestly, Elmer gets off well, I think. I hope so. Not marrying. I worry about that boy.

Yeah, he's pretty nice he makes me think of yeah and he's a fray so probably gonna die yeah well fingers crossed fingers crossed oh my god no more too many cross too many crossings but i i do love the way that this is all revealed like what ends up being the result of those negotiations because it comes after all the talks are done that's what i mean when i say like that the action was off page i guess it would have been boring for us to hear them say this no this no this you know over and over again it's real behind closed doors shit though and as catelyn rattles off each thing each time rob's like oh that's not that bad yeah we can totally pay that right and the audiences are beginning to understand like both of them begin to see as it keeps mounting and each time rob's like i can pay it until finally it comes to him

and i think that comes a little bit back to what we've been talking about sacrifice this isn't someone dying but we keep saying you know it's easy when for a lot of these characters they're like oh yeah of course we have to sacrifice people have to sacrifice and it's not them making the sacrifice it's not them putting their own lives on the line or things like that and and that's what it is here for rob now it's his it's his marriage you know are you willing to pay this price if you want to wage a war that's what you got to pay and i rob hasn't learned that yet he's starting to learn it here and i think that's why caitlin's so proud of of him in a second when he agrees to it. But I think Rob actually never really does learn that price. He doesn't learn to do whatever it takes. Because doing whatever it takes, paying that price means that winning the war had to be worth more than his honor and the honor of anyone else. It had to be worth more than Jane Westerling's honor.

And the problem is when Kat asked the question of, did Rob learn enough from Ned? The answer is no, because Rob ended up learning the wrong lessons. And part of it is, of course, you know, due to watching John and seeing the way that Kat treated John. And I think maybe also Kat might have misunderstood some of those lessons, not lessons, but some of what she saw in ned's example because she doesn't know what's actually going on in ned's heart she doesn't have his pov chapters with all that subtext and of course ned never opened up to her but rob saw a different idea of his father where he saw

him as honorable and thought this is what ned would have done but it isn't because we see that for ned honor isn't the most important thing lives are and and your honor cannot be worth more than the lives of your people it can't be worth more than the lives of the people you love if you want them to survive and that ends up being the price that ned pays at the end of this book yeah that is actually a good way of looking at it i didn't really think about it in that exact manner till now because you're right when something in the way of how rob in the beginning of the chapter it's like an empty lesson right that he he's riding with his father's bannermen every day and he's trying to play the

lord but i think the other thing and something that you've honed in on in our john chapters especially is you know rob saw how these things that ned did also affected people around him right he saw his father's choices and his father playing the lord and how it hurt catalan and how john was hurt in the face of it right so i think that's also a big part of it that you know he he chose honor in the wrong manner in the wrong respect but also he chose the emotions of those around him after growing up and seeing those people hurt yeah rob was very loving and that's why his siblings love him so much he took those into account again very different from his namesake and i mean he just wants to be good at it you know yeah he wants to be good and he cares it's right it's just that that

caring and that love he just wants to save his people and his family and go home with his fucking dog dude yeah all he wants and and you know it comes back to that line uh that we'll get to later on when he finally says to his mom and he's crying you know i swore that i was gonna i was gonna do it right every single one of these things i was gonna do right and somehow along the way as we see just like the Jaime Lannister line right like somehow he wanted to be Arthur Dayne and he became the smiling knight so many vows they make you swear and swear and when you're living in this society it doesn't match up in the end yeah yeah and you can't have it all he he you can't have it all and he chose the wrong thing but he chose the thing that he thought was right based on emotions based on feelings which is understandable it was something

that was more immediate more tangible and again he was playing by these rules and he thought that it could be fixable but it's not yeah he had he weighed the prices and chose the wrong thing and had to pay a much higher toll bill in the end and that's why you should always pay when they first send them to you and not wait 30 days and then get the late fee. Okay? Well, as we get Catelyn back with all of these big ol' asterisks to tell Rob about, she gets to the end of her list, and she's like, Do you consent? If you wish to cross, you must consent. So, he consents.

And so we end the chapter. He had never seemed more manly to her than he did in that moment. Boys might play with swords, but it took a lord to make a marriage pact, knowing what it meant. The cross that even fall as a horned moon floated upon the river, the double column wound its way through the gate of the eastern twin like a great steel snake slithering across the courtyard into the keep and over the bridge to issue forth once more from the second castle on the west bank. Catelyn rode at the head of the serpent with her son and her uncle Sir Brynden and Sir Stevern Frey. Behind followed nine-tenths of their horse, knights, lancers, free-riders, and mounted bowmen. It took hours for them all to cross. Afterward, Catelyn would remember the

clatter of countless hooves on the drawbridge, the sight of Lord Walder Frey in his litter, watching them pass the glitter of his eyes, peering down through the slats of the murder holes in the ceiling as they rode through the water tower. The larger part of the northern host, pikes and archers, and great masses of men-at-arms on foot, remained upon the east bank under the command of Roose Bolton. Robb had commanded him to continue the march south to confront the huge Lannister army coming north under Lord Tywin. For good or ill, her son had thrown the dice. Well.

About that dice throw there with Roose. Wait a second, just to recap, isn't that the guy that said the very oddly specifically creepy thing about the Lannisters slitting rob's throat earlier i wonder if it's just like does ruse just say creepy things all the time so that people will never know anymore when they should be like paying attention of like that was that was way creepier

you know if you guess he has no one to check him right like who's gonna check him he's just like super already creepy he just plants red flags everywhere and nothing usually happens. So they're like, that's just him, I guess. To be clear, it's red flags with pink men on them. Yes, or vice versa. Yes, or vice versa. Light red, if you will, flags. Yes, well, while Davos was our gambler last season, it is the Stark clan here.

It is the Roose Bolton gamble. Throw the dice indeed. While we have that dwindling stock value under Cat and Walder, right? By the word or by the child in Catelyn's case. Rob's value is not going down. While we reread this chapter, it's so easy to see why the betrayal happens and how it forms. The Lannisters were willing to pay really good money to take back control of Westeros, of a warring country, to do the underdog in real easy. The biggest question

is why would Walder stake his whole being, his whole life, and his young house's short time as a great house of westeros on the bloody murder of the starks and tollies and it's right here in this chapter i mean robin cat's betrayal is not just their betrayal but kind of the third and final betrayal to him of the tollies that we've talked about in this chapter this wasn't even a really about rob necessarily it's about cadeline being the person to promise him these things and that word being broken and what that represented about the future of the tollies betraying him ruining his chances at a better life in society and a better ability to give some of his 900 children opportunities to excel the family name and make his house greater. Not everyone can be born to be a Stark or a Tully

with access to all of these connections. Again, this is an anti-Frey account, except for like dumb bitch Amy, wonderful lovely Walda, Rosalyn, and I guess there are some boys too, but whatever. Yeah, I mean, I'm still here for Oliver and Perrin. They're lovely. And also Eliana Viprin, who's the daughter of Laithene Frey. And I actually don't know anything about Eliana Viprin, but I mean, just listen to her name.

Eliana Viprin. Like, how could I not? I've got really bad news about her. I've got bad news about Elia. I don't want to talk about it. I'm just saying. Let me go. Leave me alone. I don't have a name about it. I'm just saying. Let me go. Leave me alone.

I don't have a name, you know, at least. I don't know. I'm just saying. I don't think it was right. I just understand why Walder decided to murder them at the wedding. You know, like, your boy Walder snapped. He sure did snap. I totally get why he decided to stake his entire house on murder training the people who symbolize his whole life failure and regret and embarrassment. I understand it. It's not right, but I do get it. people, right? As saying, like, this person is very proud, right?

But they don't think of Lord Walder Frey that way, but that's ultimately what... a big part of what drives him, right? And that's part of what's so insulting about the marriage to the Westerlings later on, right?

He's proud, and he's been rebuffed by all of these great lords at each turn. I don't think, you know, as we're saying, I don't think that Walder had to like just go gangbusters on the whole thing. Yeah, I mean, maybe not murder train. Yeah, right. Just because he like wanted people to finally respect him. But it makes sense in the context of the story that's being told, right?

It's reminiscent. And this happens in the same book. Like, this happens in book three, is what I mean. Like, when Tyrion, he kills his father, Tywin. It's a similar impetus, I think, but on a much larger scale, right? It's less personal. Probably feels personal, I guess, to Walder, but it's over years, right? Because, you know, Robb did not abuse Walder fray throughout all of walter fray's life the north did not do

that to you yeah i mean this is about the riverlands yeah but it fits into all those themes right of like what it takes you know when when someone just keeps getting pushed i guess and then takes that revenge something that george is interested in yes George I would not want to be on his shit list is what I've learned after reading these books I feel like oh his literal list right like Arya with the list yeah major pink

flags are being tossed around indeed pink flags for all ref yes so we will not be back this coming week because we will be covering Indeed. Pink flags for all, Raph. Yes. So we will not be back this coming week because we will be covering La Belle Sauvage, but we will be back in June with Catalin,

and we'll be covering Catalin 10 with the big ambush of Jaime's army. And very excited to come back to that. And then, of course, Catalin 11. It's a good chapter, I guess. I've heard about it. Yeah, I've heard about it. a good chapter i guess i've heard about it oh yeah i've heard about it i don't know i've heard about these books then the kings are gonna clash man yeah but until then yeah y'all are gonna have to wait but of course if you do want more song of

ice and fire material we are going to be talking about it on our Patreon when we go to the Free Cities. It's different. It's real different from Rob's life. Yes, that'll be over at Patreon at patreon.com slash girlsgonecanon when we talk about Pentos this month. So Stranger Tear and above, make sure you check that out where you can also grab an RSS

feed if you're a Patreon member. A private RSS feed that you can load into whatever podcast streaming thing of your choice and listen to us there. Yeah, but if you like talking about other things, right? If you do, if LaBelle Sauvage interests you or His Dark Materials and you want to talk to people about that. again do you have a discord for patrons ten dollars and up thunder tier and above where again this sunday we are having our brunch slash happy hour and people are going to be presenting at our powerpoint potluck and maybe reindeer games as as chloe likes to call it yes maybe reindeer games we shall see maybe dire wolf games all the dire wolf games put some and Just tie some little horns on them. If you are looking to talk about this week's episode, you can chat with us

on social media about it. Let us know what you thought at girlsgonecanon, C-A-N-O-N on Twitter, or if you have an email that you want to send over about your thoughts on this episode or on upcoming episodes or previous chapters, whatever you want to talk about, send us an email, girlsgonecanon at gmail.com.

And of course, you can subscribe to us on any platform that is not Google+, but you can find us on Google Play, on Apple Podcasts, on Pandora, on Spotify, on Amazon Podcasts, on Stitcher, on Prancer, on Dancer. Oh my god. Reindeer Games. Yes. Look us up. You'll find us. And as always,

I have been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana. But do you recall the most famous fray of all? Walder the Murder Reindeer. Reindeer.

Oh, God. That man holds a grudge. Goodbye. Bye.