Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 127 — AGOT Catelyn X

Episode Date: June 4, 2021

Catelyn waits, listening to the whispering wood let out its breath as screams and howls fill the forest. A green boy captures a lion. Links mentioned: The Whispering Wood by Scad and Anne — https://youtu.be/xZnNmAa_YPM?t=675 Sound credits: Tempting Secrets by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/5005-tempting-secrets License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Arrows: copyc4t — https://freesound.org/people/copyc4t/sounds/222608/ EverHeat — https://freesound.org/people/EverHeat/sounds/205563/ LiamG_SFX — https://freesound.org/people/LiamG_SFX/sounds/322217/ Medieval combat sounds: @ScottishPodcast — Yap_Audio_Production — https://freesound.org/people/Yap_Audio_Production/sounds/218522/ ---- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl] Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello, and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, Read a Song of Ice and Fire, Episode 127, Catalin 10, in a Game of Thrones. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. We've made it, we've made it to The Whispering Wood, which- The Whispering Wood. It's apparently about a battle and not- Jamie's dick.

Yeah, right? I mean, that is what I think about it I will give now the background of I've never really thought about this chapter that much but turns out it's like a masterpiece and I think everyone knows it's a masterpiece but whenever I think about The Whispering Wood I think about our good friend

Skad from Davos Fingers and when you're at Ice and Fire Con during what what is the name of that panel, that workshop, Chloe? The Bad Fan Fiction. Yes, the Bad Fan Fiction panel, where I guess he drew, right, two characters he had to ship together

in his story that he wrote, together with Anne, Sweet YFT, from the Hypes Watch. And they were teamed up that year, and they wrote The Whispering Wood, which is about Rob and Jamie. And it's basically what you would think it is,

you know. But maybe it's not. The reading is online. We might have actually linked it before, but it's worth plugging again. It is online for you to listen to Scad's wonderful narration of this beautiful piece of fanfiction that won. It won that year.

And, you know, I'm like, what would we call that? Job? Raimi? Oh, Raimi. That's kind of, that has some sexual connotations behind it. Romi. Raimi. Huh. Hmm.. Ramy. Huh.

Hmm. Interesting. Interesting. Well, we'll have to pull that link back up because it is kind of a classic. I think it is to me. Slept on. We'll get into some of the sexual tension from House Lannister happening in this chapter as we go along, I think. It's a horny chapter.

Rainy. Yes, but this time with a different start. Besides coming south, you know, to... Oh, someone's going south. I was trying to say, I don't know, towards Riverrun. Towards Riverrun. And we also went a couple of other places last month. run. We also went a couple of other places last month. Yeah, we just got back from a big Westerosi June spring break. I don't know, like a May spring break. And we went to Pentos. We went to Pentos.

Eliana and I put out the Pentos, Pentoshi Penthouse edition. I say that 10 times fast. I sure can't. Listen, we're going to all the free cities. We on a tour you know it's that year after we graduate from like i don't know maiden school or whatever they do finishing school maiden finishing school we're about to go get finished in the free cities yes maybe we end with bravo so we can go to the House of Black and White and die. Oh, that's not a bad idea. It's a thought. We'll workshop it. We'll workshop it.

Yeah, I don't know. I had a great time in this episode. There's a lot of stuff, like a lot of the Maegor stuff with Tyenna. The Tower, I forgot about that. We got to kind of recap and go over. And a lot of fun stuff, of course, with illyrio and tyrian and danny so you'll have to tune into that if you're a patron in the stranger tier and above this coming month we're going to do a his dark materials themed episode here in june

we'll let you know what that is going to be about very soon very soon yes and turns out june is also a very hurtful month because I didn't realize. I mean, I knew it and I was thinking about it earlier today, but it hasn't sank in that in a few weeks we're about to start our read through of the Amber Spyglass book three of the His Dark Materials series. And it's painful. It's a painful book. I love it so much.

Yeah, I was thinking about this today because we're also doing Catalan chapters that don't get happier. Wow. What's wrong with us? No wonder we're going to go die in the House of Black and White. Join us in the House of Black and White where we will be giving up. Girls Gone Canon Death Cult. Wow. Girls Gone Death Cult.

Oh my god oh no well so i guess this doesn't help make our case now that we've put that energy out into the universe we have a discord everyone where once a month we have a brunch slash happy hour and we do not ask people to drink Kool-Aid, but we do ask you to, if you would like, bring a libation of your own. Sometimes for me it's coffee, which is a very different energy. But, I mean, that's why it says brunch, okay?

And sometimes it's just water. I bring the happy. I bring the hour. I bring the hour. Tag yourself. I'm the hour I bring the hour tag yourself I'm the happy hour no it is a fun time right anyone who is a patron in the

thunder tier and above gets access to our discord not just for brunch and happy hour which is happening in June on the 26th Saturday the 26th I think we'll be doing it from 2 to 4 you know to squeeze in around those Joe Magician live streams and the Radio Westeros live streams these days. But

we'll pencil y'all in for a brunch then. So we'll love to see you. More details to come. Yes. And of course, we have fun activities when we do those, such as, for example, this past month, we returned to the format of the presentation potlucks, which was very fun. And it was a dream of spring break. No, yes. No, it was a dream. It was just a dream of spring. We've just had a dream of like spring break so many times that I'm like inflating everything. It was a dream. It's a marketing theme once a year, okay? Until it comes out, which, dear God, I hope it does. But yeah, it was a dream of spring themed.

And other times, and at the end, you know, we played some Jackbox games, which we usually do. Those are fun. Yeah, we do a couple giveaways of some fun art, some fan art from A Song of Ice and Fire artists, and also some His Dark Materials swag from different creators as well. And it's just fun to get to know yous and play some of those Jackbox Icebreaker games. It's always a riot.

I do a lot of laughing. My husband is always in the other room like, what the fuck is so funny? Well, he could join from the other room. I know, he's literally in the other room like what the fuck is so funny well he could join well from the other room i know he's literally he's literally in this course he's welcome he's welcome and he jokes well and you two are go head over to patreon.com slash girls gone canon and you can join maybe not from the other room but uh from your computer, your home. Well, before we finish up our housekeeping,

we had a really great email from one of our friends, Robin, who's been shut up in their apartment throughout the pandemic and kind of been using us as a companion for biking out in the city. That's awesome. I actually have done a bad job of, but I did get back into biking. After many, many years, i got back on a bike during the pandemic so i'm glad that we could do that for you it feels like we're biking together but not because i'm very out of shape uh robin says i think that going by pov by pov really helps you dial into how strong A Song of Ice and Fire is

as a series of character studies, whereas most people are drawn in by the politics, military, supernatural elements, etc. You mentioned in a couple of episodes you would like people to send pet pics. I do not have a pet in my apartment, but my sibling has a couple of birds, including a very cute linny parakeet named Blueberry. Occasionally, pre-pandemic, I am the bird sitter for Blueberry and the rest of the flock. I've attached a few pictures of Blueberry, as well as a

Blueberry mood chart I made a couple of months ago. Please enjoy. Hopefully we'll be able to link this if Robin gives us permission, because this chart is a joy. It is, and if we are able to share this if Robin gives us permission, because this chart is a joy. It is. And if we are able to share this, we just want to let you know now what our moods are today. I think that I am, you know, for the most part of the day, right, I have been, I think, blueberry number 15.

I woke up earlier than I would have liked because I had a dentist appointment. I've been in the mood to be snuggled under a blanket. How about you, Chloe? Who are you today? This is hard. There are so many relatable moods from

blueberry. There are. My day was interesting. I'm going to actually spin this. I'm going to give you a variant.'m gonna actually spin this i'm gonna give you a variant are you ready okay i'm gonna give you my blueberry sun my blueberry moon and my blueberry rising oh okay okay okay that's how many photos are on this chart you all it's amazing i want you to know but what get ready to see it This is how many photos are on this chart. This is such an important chart. I'm so happy.

Thank you, Robin. Okay, I am a 15 sun. Okay. A 7 moon. Okay. And an 11 rising. Interesting. Yeah, I think that's a strong where i am i don't know 16's in there somewhere maybe it's my my uh saturn i don't know we'll figure it out but that's mine

i would love to hear uh we'll we'll find out if we can if robin lets us post this maybe you too can give us what your blueberry mood board is. Yeah, and I will add, you know, while 15 is me for most of the day, I will say that number five, number five blueberry is the both of us right now. We've actually had a discussion of which bird is which. And I think I guess I'm in the role of blueberry and Chloe is the bird, the yellow bird that I am annoying. Those are your words, not mine. And I agree, though. So.

Well, OK, so Robin didn't just send us this Blueberry mood chart. I hope no one skipped through this. Don't skip through this. There are some good things here. Robin has some Asahi of Vice and Fire thoughts for us. Yes. Robin said, I had a couple of Asahia Vice and Fire thoughts that have been bouncing around in my head listening to your coverage of Catlin chapters. Would love to hear your thoughts.

And there are a couple of good thoughts, but we have picked this one out to focus on for this episode. pick this one out to focus on for this episode. In your episode on Catlin 3, you comment on how it's a bit odd that Catlin immediately jumps to Jamie as Bran's would-be killer with seemingly no evidence to go on. I mostly agree with this, but wanted to sketch out a defense of why George could reasonably write Catlin jumping to this conclusion. Something that sticks out to me now after a couple of rereads is that Catlin is a pretty staunch legalist and frames a lot of her thinking-slash-actions in legalistic terms. Oaths, inheritance, formal or informal norms, fealty, laws, etc. are all at the top of her mind, and the failure of these institutions-slash-violation of all these concepts is a big part of her story. Just a few lines before she suggests Jamie as Bran's killer,

she begins demanding oaths of secrecy from all the others present. Anyways, given how Catelyn applies this framework to her thinking when searching for possible suspects to Bran's attempted murder, it seems like a reasonable conclusion to choose the only person around who is very famous for specifically violating a vow slash oath. I think this aspect of her character is worth keeping an eye on going forward as you explore further into Clash and Storm. I will be at least. Hmm. That is interesting.

She's going off of that suspicion, right? That pre-informed suspicion from other things. I like that. The oaths and inheritance and the kind of like law aspect of it is great. That is a, you know, that's a Clinton-Mary thought too. I wonder how they would think of that. as well with that episode where we had clinton and yeah i think that this makes a lot of sense and while i personally still think you know i'm still just like that's not the first thought i would have thought but that's because i'm not catelyn i don't think of the world in these terms and yeah so so it makes sense i think that this rationale works within like a watsonian context and also it reminds me a little of like you know i mean she was right and i think george partially wrote it so that it would work that way conveniently but it also makes me think a lot of like yeah i guess cersei was right that the tyrells

were partially you know behind her son's death i mean i don't know that she was right and how she got there but somehow she came to the right conclusion and it's got a little bit of that energy to me it does have that energy and i know that like it has both positives and negatives on it because first it was like all right i got a tyrian all right now we got a jamie but it is that whole like what clint said right that uh you know not technically what's being charged here yeah yeah very true he's like i just did the whole thing that put him in a coma lady jesus You know, not technically what's being charged here. Yeah, yeah. Very true. He's like, I just did the whole thing that put him in a coma, Lady Jesus.

Yeah, exactly. I'm not unreasonable. Yeah, and yet that interaction is laced with sexual tension. Weird. Well, let's project ourselves into the lightning round so we can get deeper into that sexual tension oh wow okay we're not gonna go into it that much um just so everyone knows just and anyways yeah if you're really excited right now if you're like getting a little hot about it calm down take a cold shower um we still have a clash of kings or if you're upset about it know that we're not really that's not what the chapter's about.

The chapter, also what it's not about, it's not about Jon VIII, which Jon is given a Valyrian steel, sword by the Lord Commander. Maester Aemon tries to reach through Jon's exterior with empathy and reveals his true identity in the process. Daenerys VII. Khal Drogo has conquered another town, another khalasar, and taken captives. Daenerys steps in to stop the blood riders from assaulting the woman.

Drogo takes wounds, and a healer that was rescued through Daenerys volunteers her talents. Tyrion VIII. Tyrion and his men are assigned to Ser Gregor Clegane's vanguard, and Tyrion meets a woman named Shae. He's called to battle by Dawn, and the Lannister soldiers are tricked by the Wolves of Winterfell. I, too, have felt tricked about the Wolves of Winterfell, specifically the She-Wolves of Winterfell. Am I going to get this novella one day? I don't know. We're getting awfully demandy lately. I have been. It's 2021 all right like listen we spent the past year in four walls and we're getting a little testy i'm sorry i'm sorry

well this chapter this published chapter is a chapter that i don't really think needs an overview so much as an introduction through Catlin's eyes. The woods were full of whispers. Moonlight winked on the tumbling waters of the stream below as it wound its rocky way along the floor of the valley. Beneath the trees, warhorses wickered softly and pawed at the moist leafy ground while men made nervous jests and hushed voices now and again she heard the chink of spears the faint metallic slither of chain mail but even those sounds were muffled it should not be long now my lady halice mullen said amazing wow this is this chapter is art it is you really don't have to reread it with us you could just reread it and you'll have the same experience i bet but but still listen truly

yeah you've got a good episode i think or i hope i don't know i hope i hope listen this is this imagery is just unmatched right it's It's just gorgeous. And you can feel it. You can feel the wind in the trees and you can feel the rustle and the tension of this battle about to start. And, you know, we're going POV to POV, but I did make a detour to check up on the last Tyrion chapter on some of the imagery. on the last Tyrion chapter, on some of the imagery. And it's great structurally in comparison to this. Tyrion goes to bed before they're taken unawares the next morning, right, of a night of just a romp, right, of the drinking and the revelry before a big battle. And by the end of the battle, it's really interesting. So both of these characters, Catelyine and Tyrion, are taken out of the active action. They're unable to participate, and one or two of their senses are even removed.

For Catiline, it's sight for the darkness in the woods, amplifying the whispers of the brush and the shouts of the lords. But for Tyrion, it's consciousness, right? And structurally, even down to the Harus in these chapters they align so well there's even this certain point of the structure that works really well with the parenting that's going on tywin puts his least favorite child in direct danger purposefully in battle right like it's it's pretty purposefully and tyrian somehow against all odds, lives. Catelyn makes sure that a guard is installed around Robb soon, and where Tywin is haughty and arrogant and proud, and he's spent all of his time calling Robb a green boy.

By the end of Tyrion's chapter, Tywin's embarrassed and he's wrong. He's been tricked by the green boy, where Catelyn, at the end of this chapter, is busy saying, Robb, don't be arrogant. Don't be proud. This was only a battle, not a war. Even Tyrion's last thoughts in Tyrion 8. A green boy, Tyrion remembered, more like to be brave than wise. He would have laughed if he hadn't hurt so much.

I love that. That's a great connection, that Tyrion quote. Because to some extent extent it almost feels like it's more about tyrian's brother right and not about rob as we find out at the end of this chapter he was willing to risk it all i he actually literally was and ramey oh my god uh well i think that is the basis right like i think scad uses that uh within the fiction anyway weird tinfoil green boy what if it has to do with like the green seer thing is there a double entendre anyway halas had the honor to protect catlin in battle as winterfell's captain of guards this was

his right and rob hadn't refused him of it a guard of 30 men keeps catatelyn safe, ready to take her to Winterfell if the fighting goes south? Southern? Southern? Chloe wrote this and I wanted to try and stress that for her. Thank you. So they come to this compromise of 30. And I do love that this is once more a show of Catelyn's practicality, but also this, I think, sort of like self-effacing instinct as she insists that there be more men, as you were talking about earlier, right? That, well, both of us lose, but I guess in an okay way. And this little line that she says to him, it's chilling, especially knowing where we are in the story. It will come when it comes, Catelyn told him. When it came, she knew it would mean death. Hal's death, perhaps, or hers, or Rob's.

No one was safe. No life was certain just goosebumps it feels like this chapter is just writhing with Ned foreshadowing right like Ned dies in two chapters spoiler and this is a reread I am stressing

wait what the fuck why would you just say that you're right he wargs into sorry skin, skin changes into pigeon. And the sword. And the sword. And ill and pain. And the bread. Look, it could be argued that this chapter, Rob's success, is that dramatic tension that you have to have a loss for.

Right? Like, you can't have this big win near the end of the story and have the northern plot continue to hinge on that and make sense like it's not enough momentum ned's death comes as a huge gut punch as the underwolves kind of you know suffer they just won so hard uh if i didn't know that ned died you know reading this for the first time again, I wonder what I felt like when I read it because it's been a while. But it would just kick my ass after finally realizing he dies to come back to this and be like, wow, he really was trying to nail home that Ned's about to go bye bye. and besides ned which this is definitely setting up for i think there's also an aspect of irony to this line when taken in the context of actually caitlin's own death because we see caitlin can accept death in battle that she or her son like might die here because she accepts as a rule that sometimes men die in battle or when they leave home for war as with brandon stark

not war but you know but there's a sense of acceptance of death with caitlin's line of like it will come when it comes that is just entirely lacking in lady stoneheart and also in cat's final moments with that scream or not the scream but right and she's clawing her face there's none of the grace and acceptance and especially like none of the honor, because yeah, you can expect to die in battle. I mean, that's what happens when men go to war, when people go to war in general, but no one expects to die betrayed by comrades

at your dinner table after doing the sacred rites. This is just like such a great tension build in this chapter. You can feel the tension and it it carries a lot of weight through the next two books for this plot i think yes it does there's i mean again a lot of the setup for things happens in catelyn's chapter and i think that's also partially because that huge twist does occur in her chapters the next one not ned's the other stark one the other painful catelyn is content to wait she had been waiting for men her whole life true i actually really love this line again the music of the prose is so prominent and here she feels music too

catelyn was content to wait to listen to the whispers in the woods and the faint music of the brook, to feel the warm wind in her hair. The language here is actually pretty similar to the Children of the Forest and how they're described in The World of Ice and Fire. It's definitely something we'll return to in A Storm of Swords 5 when we head once more through the wood to go to old stones and you know we trample past all the carnage that's fun so in the world of ice and fire it's described in the dawn age with regards to the children he was taken to a secret place

to meet with them but could not at first understand their speech, which was described as sounding like the song of stones in a brook, or wind through leaves, or the rain upon the water. The manner in which Brandon learned to comprehend the speech of the children is a tale in itself, and not worth repeating here, but it seems clear their speech originated, or drew inspiration from, the sounds they heard every day. I love the magical nature and language in this chapter, like the howling of the wolves repeated through the horns, not just here, but also at the Green Fork during Tyrion's chapter when Winterfell descends that we'll kind of chat about today. And of course this, this magical nature and language,

this is where the Children of the Forest would be, right? Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And I didn't realize, it really feels like they're withholding something they're not worth repeating here okay okay yeah there's a lot of that in the world of ice and fire let's be real absolutely that's that's part of it and yeah so as you said i mean the imagery and the use of sound in this chapter is really great and we're gonna bring it up again and again sorry not sorry watch for me little cat her father would tell her when he rode off to court or to battle and she always would watch for him from the battlements of river run as he left

and he'd ask her when she came back did did you watch for me, little cat? And I'm just like, ugh. Ugh, I don't know why this memory, like, my heart breaks for Catelyn as she thinks of this memory from, like, her girlhood, that, like, of all the men in her life, you can see that to Cat, I think Hoster Tully was the only one who never let her down. It must be really nice being the eldest child, and also the favorite, which is,

I don't think her siblings got that same treatment and do not have the same fond memories of their father. But the emphasis on even when he broke his promises of when he'd be back, he still came back to her as her hero, unlike all of these Stark men. Especially here, there's almost that sense of the Blackfish seeing him do the planning with with rob that we're gonna see she has to let him go too yeah you know yeah she he's uh he's still her favorite uncle but now he has to help her son win wars win a kingdom save a kingdom yeah he's no longer this comforting figure for her he's now has to be a protector and he has been like emotionally for them but now physically but yeah while she's thinking of that brendan she's also thinking of brandon brandon had bitter to wait as well saying that they'd wed on her return but when the day came for them to wed it was actually his brother that she wed you might might know him. His name's Ned. He wrote off, barely a fortnight later, promises on his lips.

I love that, with promises on his lips. He ate her out. Oh, my God. Why is her vagina full of promises? It's the Lord's kiss. He knew where to put it. God damn it. He knew where to put it.

God damn it. So, back when we talked about Nedward, Nedward Stark here, way back when, you know, we mentioned that he thinks often of the promises that he failed to keep, right? Not just the promise so when we think of the promise with ned we think of liana dying in her bed of blood saying promise me ned promise me because the sucker won't stop thinking of it himself right of course that's what we think of i've read these books but he also always thinks like when he slept he dreamed dark disturbing dreams of blood and broken promises and this right here is one of those promises, right? He wrote off, promised he'd be true to her and said, okay, well, hopefully I put a baby in your cat

and I'll go, you know, take your dad's swords and try to do some good in the world. Be back later. Be back later. Promise I'll come back. And now we get to see that through Kat's POV. We get to see her remembering that. And it's sweeter than it is bitter right now

because he's not dead yet right sweeter than it is bitter she reflects that at least Ned had given her a son not just words nine moons wax and wane and Rob's birth had come to Riverrun while Ned was warring in the south she brought him forth in blood and pain

not knowing if Ned would get to meet him. And now it's Rob that she waits for. Rob. Jaime Lannister. The gilded knight who never learned to wait at all. According to Brynden. Interesting that she slips Jaime in there I guess. Amongst the people that she's waiting for.

Slips what about him in? Oh. Oh sorry. What's that? Prom. Oh, sorry. Promises on his lips. I will say, though, that this entire sequence, right, drawn from Hoster to Brandon to Ned to Rob, is just masterful, right? I mean, like, the promises that you were talking about beautifully pairs well with, as you said, Ned's chapters, which are the same book, right? It, like, really drives that home. as well with, as you said, Ned's chapters, which are the same book, right? It really drives that home.

But also here regarding all of those men in her lives, George spells out the conceit of this chapter, I think, very explicitly for the reader later on with the line of Catelyn sat on her horse, unmoving, with Hal Mollen and her guard around her. And she waited, as she had waited

before, for Brandon and Ned and her father. And like, I don't know what else he would have written instead of that line, but to be honest, I don't even know if he needed that line because he just paints that pattern so well right here and just shows rather than tells like this entire sequence of, and I mean, he even says it explicitly at the top, right?

Of her men had always made her wait it's catelyn as literally a lady in waiting and she's waiting for the man who did come back the man who didn't the man who did his duty and now her son and as you pointed out this passage is so especially painful knowing that ned dies, knowing that as Kat waits for her husband, the man that she has come to love, that this time he will not return to her. to her even when she goes to see him soon he he's kind of gone and as rob will never return to her no matter what she does or how much vengeance she exacts and okay satan we're not even we're not even done with the hurtful comments because i think that there's something there too right to be said of how catelyn sees her own role as a woman. To wait. To wait. A life built around men.

Because is that not how a good lady should live? She's waiting dutifully for the men. But what happens when all your men you love are gone? Lady Stoneheart is not the patient Catelyn. There's no one to wait for. Only death. I hate these books so much and it's just gonna get worse no it is a very beautiful and sad and bittersweet progression and of course rob is one of the saddest parts of it that we're focused on in this chapter because it's in front of us if rob was frightened he gave no sign of it he moves among his men he shares jests he touches

their shoulders she wonders when her son had grown so big 15 almost as tall as she is and then it's really bad do i have to read it okay she thinks let him grow taller she asked the gods let him know 16 and 20 and 50 let him grow as tall as his father and hold his own son in his arms please please please this is not a good chapter it's a very cruel chapter and it's really mean This is not a good chapter. It's a very cruel chapter, and it's really mean. It is a mean chapter on a reread. On a first read, you're like, oh, yeah, sick.

Fighting. Nope. We should have known. I know. This was the point. We were so foolish, and we didn't even know Ned either, right? If you read this before the show and you're reading it the first time, you had no clue the Arya chapter was going to be Ned dying, right? Because it's an Arya chapter. At first you're like,

what? And then it happens. You're like, what? And you're like, did that really happen? Yeah. So this is a gut punch because you're so distracted with the success of this battle and of her thoughts of Rob growing old. We should have known. We should have known better.

Yeah. Catelyn watches him and his direwolf prowl. Him and his beard. All she sees is the tiny baby they laid at her breast in Riverrun. The thoughts enough to make her shiver. Where are they? She wondered.

Could her uncle have been wrong? So much rested on the truth of what he had told them. 300 men were riding with the blackfish to screen the march ahead of time, and when he arrives finally back to camp, he tells them Jamie's host is completely unaware. The archers had shot down any birds heading towards them and killed all of his outriders. His host is still pretty large. It's 12,000 foot in three camps around the river and 3,000 horse. They have them three to one, but the Blackfish thinks the Lannister camp outside of River One will be their undoing because it's one way in, leaving pretty much their asses out in

the air. They hope they'll be able to outlast Jaime's troops with their bonus, patience, something Jaime Lannister does not have. Yeah, so again, there's a with their bonus, patience, something Jamie Lannister does not have. Yeah, so again, there's a lot of set-up exposition, then payoff internally within Kat's individual chapters, and this is one of those, right, where Jamie's impatience does him in, it gets him captured. But it also just resonates really well with what we've been talking about within this chapter, where yes, the men going into battle may have more patience than jamie but do any of them have more patience than catelyn again just waiting yeah that's not you're not their hosts had grown since leaving the twins seaguard's power arrived with lord jason allister

as well as other hedge knights small small lords, and masterless men at arms, fleeing the war beneath the walls of Riverrun. And I'm just like, wow, both Jason Malister and Jaime Lannister are here, and I actually have never noticed until like, just now, how much their names rhyme. And I'm like, wow. No wonder Cat is only

thinking about waiting for Rob in this chapter and not Ned. I deserve no good things i'm gonna be honest with you that no really she's busy she's got this is like westerosi girl eye candy going on okay like you're sitting there and you're like oh muscle night and they're gonna go bloody some guys up you know the blood's all red probably brings back to the good old days of just like being young and fucking whatever i don't know i mean she didn't do that but yeah kind of yeah yeah kind of she fucked once six times at least at least yeah she was trying so at least six times

legally yeah no i uh it's a thirsty chapter i mean it's not only is it a tense chapter it's a thirsty chapter we're gonna get into some thirst for mr jason mallister and jamie here i guess poor cat yeah i know right she's like all right we're just a rough housewife oh if only they could just teach her the plug in the wall hit-wall Hitachi's thing. Oh my god. Bring her all the way up to, you know, that's why in the original 93 letter, she goes all the way up to the wall where they have that ivory dildo. My god. She's just waiting for that Bronze Age, if you know what I mean. So, Oliver Frey, one of Walder's younger and more anxious sons,

holds Rob's horse as he mounts, helping him armor up. Suddenly, Rob is transformed. It's amazing. It's a physical transformation once he's armored and helmed and seated on the horse, and he is now a tall, young knight. Cat can only see black inside his visor in the night. Sounds like it might be foreshadowing. Oh. Sad.

Death. Sad? I mean, I'm thinking of brand's vision over uh gregor in this moment right seeing the the black from the helm and gregor clagain transformed into robert strong but this is a much different physical transformation it's a little more metaphorical this is his lord's face right he's put on his lord's face through armor and helm and it signals that transition of his boyhood being over that innocence being gone and we'll see the effect of that transition soon

actually with blood pretty symbolically it's not so different from sansa and a clash of kings getting her period in that aspect rob's a man now he's killed he survived battle war there's so much imagery of these knights and the last armored fierce men on the field jamie rob and i think it's really pointed that in the very next chapter cal drogo actually falls from his horse and that's a scene is a very big thing danny turned away from them he fell from his horse it was so she had seen it and the blood riders and no doubt her handmaids and the men of her costs as well. And how many more? They could not keep it secret. And Dany knew what that meant. A cow who could not ride could not rule. And Drogo had fallen from his horse. For Rob, this is such a symbolic moment. And even later in the next chapter with Jorah, he outlines carefully for Daenerys what happens when a Kal is lost in the

Kalasar. And I feel like it's really kind of fitting to some of the stuff that happens after Rob dies. Princess, hear me. The Dothraki will not follow a suckling babe. Drogo's strength was what they bowed to. And only that.

When he is gone, Jaco and Pono and the other coasts will fight for his place, and this Kalasar will devour itself. The winner will want no more rivals. The boy will be taken from your breasts the moment he's born. They'll give him to the dogs. So that's a much more graphic version of what Kat is relaying to Rob and trying to instill in him in this chapter. But it's not dissimilar. It's hard for her to find that strength in her heart to not look at him as the babe on her teat. Right. And to look at him as this man on the horse and let him go in her heart and let him grow up.

But that line does resonate with what happens when Rob is gone. Right. With the Northern Lords. The winner will want no more rivals the boys will be taken from your breasts the moment he's born they'll feed him to the dogs that's some bolton action right there yeah it actually is it's very much indicative of what the boltons do to the north next book and you know the the line that you have, or this passage, right, it's a great comparison that you've pulled of the Dothraki following strength, and I think it lends some credence and some perspective to why Cat feels such pride for her son, alongside the fear for him, of course. She sees her son in this armor looking like a lord as you said and and

stepping into that role of a man of manhood in westeros doing what he must do for his father family as a lord duty and here in battle honor all three of the house tully words and that even like oliver fray right who's dressing him is elder by two years, that he seems like a boy next to Rob, according to, you know, filtered through Kat's perspective. It just shows that so much was on Rob's shoulders. And it's kind of sad that he had to step up and do all of this at 15 years old. I was a fucking mess at 15. And he makes one mistake, right? How many mistakes do so many people make all the time as teenagers?

And we see Rob as this very, I think, perfect child in many ways. Then he makes one mistake for love of his brother. Not for love of Jane Westerling, for the love of his brother. And then it all falls apart. Yeah. And that isn't that dissimilar from what Ned did right for the love of his sister wow yeah true true we'll definitely come back to that sister who's the mother of the brother in quotes this is a telenovela it actually is telenovela jane the virgin watch out girl you

gotta go i do know but for real she really does i love telling the valley well i love i more have watched a lot of filipino teleserias similar energy there are a couple korean ones i really love yeah some korean dramas i'm really into for sure well back to our drama rob bids his mother farewell he tells her he learned from father he must ride up and down the line before battle to let the men see him compared to joffrey in black water there yeah she agrees he says it will give them courage but she wonders to herself who will give me courage she gives him nothing but her pride and her smile quietly and he rides his horse away from her gray wind following yeah i kind of like the way that rob says that he's like it'll give them courage and i guess he's like i'm

not really sure if it will but that's what i've been told but it's like i'll fucking try anything yeah dude and i get it you're like all right all i gotta do is run in front of them in a horse and so i have a confession all right i used to hate these like hypothetical self-questions that like come up so often and recur as part of i think cat's thinking voice um in her chapters when i was first reading these books in 2012 and 13 i found them so annoying um as part of yeah that narrative device signal this is cat's interiority but rereading these so many times i've you know i've grown and i i could be swayed either way on the delivery but i think that the sentiment of this particular question of who will give me courage is just brilliant all these men in her life have been like, a girl worth fighting for. And for them, it's Kat, right? She's a cultivate because there's a huge sense of helplessness to it.

Kat would rather give up 40 protectors, right? Feel that she's contributed something to the effort of her son's survival. But truly at the end, for those who can do nothing but wait, the ones who have to carry the hopes and the fears of the men around them and be that, I mean, kind of emotional crutch, right? Who is going to give those people courage? Who will pick them up and support them? And already Catelyn's womanhood is so isolated. And part of that is actually because George didn't think to write more ladies in Waiting for Her the way that, you know, he starts to build out later on but i also think of the black water right of the people in the red keep who would give them courage i wonder if cersei

perhaps asked herself the same question and bc right she almost seems like she's given up sansa had no one to give her courage and she's like well you know fuck it i'm gonna have it anyway and she tries to muster it in herself and cultivate it in the people around her but for the most part there is no cheerleader for the women and girls and again in terms of who will give her courage who will do that emotional support i'm pulling a line from in the future a clash of kings cat 2 she woke aching and alone and weary, weary of riding, weary of hurting, weary of duty. I want to weep, she thought. I want to be comforted. I'm so tired of being strong. I want to be foolish and frightened for once.

Just for a small while, that's all. A day. An hour. I think about that all the time. That haunts me, just so you know. Every day I think that. Sometimes when I have to hit my snooze button, I think about that all the time. That haunts me, just so you know. Every day I think that. Sometimes when I have to hit my snooze button, I think that. I do that.

One more hour. I think that all the time. Five more minutes. My clock will be like 6.45 a.m. and I'm looking at it and I was like, I just want to be comforted. I'm tired of waking up for work. I want to be foolish and comforted and frightened for once just another hour yeah for a small while thanks for that time travel forward i love the

point you're making there but now you've depressed me again we're back at it can't wait till the next book it's a depressing chapter okay but it is the saddest right because as they gallop off in a minute to war it's just her with hal mullen and her small guard and none of these men she doesn't really know or love them in the way she loves rob and ned and hoster and brindan and jason these men don't know her that way and they can't and jason and Jamie, wait a second. What if we put the prisoner on the honor guard? No, I'm just kidding. That would go so terribly.

It could be fun. I don't know. Add a little southern tea to that northern mix. Okay. But yes. When Rob forced Catelyn to take protect protectors she declared he too needed a guard so that formed the battle guard torin karstark eddard karstark patrick malister small john umber darren hornwood theon grayjoy at least five phrase wendell manderly robin flint and a few others

amounting to about 30. I do love this. It's sad because, of course, it ends a little bit in disaster later for a few of them. But one of these is Daisy Mormont. That also ends in disaster. Lanky, six foot tall and lanky, Daisy is the heiress to Bear Island in the north and had been given a morning star at such an age when girls get dolls. Some of the lords muttered about Daisy's affliction, you know, womanhood,

but Catalin would not hear of it. This is not about the honor of your houses, she told them. This is about keeping my son alive and whole. And if it comes to that, she wondered, will 30 be enough? Will 6, thirty be enough? Will six thousand be enough? A bird called faintly in the distance, a high sharp trill that felt like an icy hand on Catlin's neck. Another bird answered, a third, a fourth. She knew their call well enough from her years at Winterfell. Snow shrikes. Sometimes you saw them in the deep of winter when the godswood was white and still. They were northern birds. They are coming, Catelyn thought.

Hal Mullen, a man known for stating the obvious apparently, whispers that they are coming, and she whispers gods be with us in return. And regarding the stuff that you were saying earlier, Chloe, about, uh, Dacey Mormont, it's a little groundwork, right, for how Cat might feel when meeting Brienne. I almost wonder, is this icy hand on Catelyn's neck, is that something that, like, is this, like, foreshadowing for something that was maybe in the 93 letter? Mmm. It feels like it could be. That's interesting. It feels like it could be.

That's interesting. Now that you say it, like, the icy hand on the neck, especially because she was going to go north and possibly become an other feels pretty apt. But also now it can just be a death metaphor. Yeah, now it is obviously a death metaphor, right? But there's something about it that feels so pointed. Zombie? White? pointed zombie white yeah yeah exactly and knowing knowing what we know was in the 93 letter and how sometimes catelyn thinks like oh i just want to choke out cersei lannister that's a little sexual too um anyway coming back to to what we actually have here though you know catelyn thinks they are coming right when she sees the snow shrikes and how mullins does the exact same thing after she

speaks just voices that aloud which i think again it speaks to something that we've been talking about of again how much catelyn has internalized those northern symbols and visual language she understands this even before the northman has to tell her she hears the tread of horses the rattlesword spear armor the murmur of voices a A laugh, a curse. The sounds grow louder. Laughter commands. Splashing horses. And finally, at long last, for an instant, she sees him.

Sir Jamie Lannister and his golden hair and the silver moonlight. Ooh, he's so sexy, Catelyn thinks. She doesn't, like, think that explicitly, but why else would she gaze upon him in the moonlight like this and think he's gilded? I mean, this is our podcast. We can say what

we want. It's written in a way that you're like, oh my god, there are the branches, it's something hopeful, and then like no, it's a- It's not? It's the enemy? It's the bad guy? And the language is very admiring but i guess actually that's how all the storks talk about him now that i think about it even ned being like oh how he glittered

and i'm like no one talks like that ned but it's a good line good job great writing um it does feel very like i don't know is did they talk about it just have a big bon, I don't know. Does George just have a big boner? I don't know. Maybe. I wonder. They must. Yeah, I bet like in bed. I bet they're both just like, no, I hate Jamie Lannister more. No, I hate Jamie Lannister more.

And they're just like fucking about his beautiful silver costume. Yeah, pretty much. That's I think I do think now that's what Catelyn and Ned do. They're like, remember Jamie's golden hair? Did. Did. Yeah, sorry. That is what they did. Maybe in the afterlife when her soul is sent away. Yeah. And then, like, in death, they're like, yo, remember Jamie Lannister?

Do you think our souls can fuck in the afterlife? I think so. I think they have to. Anyways, let's talk about this language about Jamie Lannister's little cosplay here. The moonlight had silvered his armor and the gold of his hair and turned his crimson cloak to black. He was not wearing a helm. He was there, and he was gone again, his silvery armor obscured by the trees once more. Butterfly meme. Is this foreshadowing?

It certainly feels it, right? It's similar to his Weirwood dreams later, in a way, kind of just the imagery of how he sees other people. But the crimson cloak turning to black. Right? Could even be Night's Watch imagery, or an outline of when george maybe thought of that or him going north or him abandoning his lannister color even it does remind me of john right like

strongly reminds me of john and i don't know i thought it was interesting he's wearing his silver armor too and not his gold that's true that's true and like jamie's cloak is a matter of much symbolism right cloaks in general are a matter of much symbolism in these books which is why it like stands out so much and also things turning into other colors and i don't know it's also possible that like the way i'm reading that icy hand around caitlin's neck it could be like i don't know book one stuff that got gardened away that was maybe set up for something in the 93 letter. Like you said, maybe George was playing with this idea before.

You know, like all that imagery earlier on in this very same book of Jaime really looking like a king. And in the 93 letter, Jaime was supposed to steal the throne. So I don't know. Yeah. Maybe it's just to boost the king stuff. Who knows? Yeah, maybe it's just fancy words. I don't know. But it feels important to boost the king stuff who knows yeah maybe it's just fancy words

i don't know but it feels important we'll find out yeah it feels important uh waiting um we're always waiting for george you know that's true do you see me chloe and aliana wait for me oh we're waiting george was not content to wait not content to listen to the whispers in the woods and the faint music of the brook to feel the warm wind in my hair not content at all the outside don't give me outside

give me fantasy books anyways behind Jamie there's long columns of Freeriders, Knights, and Sworn Swords that have come and 75% of the Lannister's Horse. Rob and Brynden had continued to make plans, Brynden warning him that Jamie is no man to sit in a tent while carpenters build siege towers, and Rob studied the map with him, because Ned had taught Rob to read a map, and they plan to raid them here and here, and it means nothing to you when I point, um,

but here turns out to be a hushed area of moonlight, shadows, and dead leaves, and it's Catelyn's son on his stallion, giving Catelyn one last look goodbye as he lifts his sword in salute. Ugh, okay. Mage calls on her warhorn to announce Jaime's riders

entering the trap, and Greywyn throws his head back and awoos. Catelyn thinks it's a frightening, terrible sound, but there's music in it as well. It's a song of ice and fire. For a moment, she feels pity for the Lannisters below, thinking that

this is what death sounds like. Don't get too haughty there, Catelyn. What's next? Oh, that's sad. Just two bucks. Yeah, it's sad. The Greyjohn winds his own horn, and the trumpets of the Malisters and Freys blow theirs as well. They blow vengeance.

I don't know if that's what the phrase blow but um the carstarks join their own horns to the chorus and men and horses alike shout and veer in the stream below the whispering wood let out its breath all at once as the bowman rob had hidden in the branches of the trees let fly their arrows and the night erupted with the screams of men and horses. All around her, the riders raised their lances and the dirt and leaves that had buried the cruel points fell away to reveal the gleam of sharpened steel. Winner found, she heard Rob shout as the arrows sighed again. He moved away from her to trot, leading his men downhill. Catelyn sat on her horse, from her the trot leading his men downhill catalan sat on her horse unmoving with hal mullen and her guard around her and she waited as she had waited before for brandon and ned and her

father i will say just like j, Jesus fucking Christ that first line I'm gonna read it again, it's just so good the whispering wood let out its breath all at once ugh ugh I just love how George transforms you know, and plays

with the name of the whispering wood to, as you were pointing out earlier bring this chapter to life through the sounds and these other senses when our sight is often obscured and that we cannot see and we're helpless and waiting and we're just also trying to glean information from the chaos george does something i think beautifully memetic in how the the writing positions the reader together with Catlin's point of view both helpless to take action and waiting for the outcome yeah the personification of nature is just so strong letting out its breath all at once and you know it's interesting how he builds the trap of it all. If you obviously we know there's a trap at the Green Fork, right?

We learned that. And he doesn't outright say there's a trap in this chapter until when Brynden is kind of going over plans. He hints at it, but you still don't know exactly what the trap is necessarily. And then here the trap comes out, the emergence of the men from nature. It's amazing. It's just like an amazing little trap. And we see that come back so much later, right? The Northmen pull that again with Asha. Yeah, and if you don't know what's gonna happen if you if they don't tell you the whole plan, and I guess that's part of what leads you astray, right? Because you do hear some of the plan from Rob. And so you think like, think like oh i don't know they're gonna attack them withholding that last thing because yeah usually the construction

right is if you know the plan then it's gonna go to shit but if you don't it's gonna work then it goes well and that is why except for this time the battle of the bastards no i'm just kidding i'm just kidding oh my god constructed okay and Oh my god. That one was poorly constructed. That one was poorly done. Okay, and then there was season seven. Don't get me started. But I do want a devil's advocate for something construction-wise. This does remind me, this passage right here makes me think of the bad show, the show the books were based on. And it reminds me of Sansa watching that Winterfell battle.

I wonder if we could actually see this come back in some actual sensible, logical way in the book of Sansa waiting atop a horse from afar at Winterfell because of how Winterfell is set a little lower, for example, or being made to wait while the fighting happens. Obviously, again, I preface this with the bad show because it happened at the bad show, but I could certainly see that happening. Sansa coming back with the Veil Knights and waiting from afar to stay out of the danger. I could too. Yeah, it would make a lot more sense than it did in the show. But I was also thinking like you could see that sort of, I think, recur. I mean, she is also a lady in waiting, right? As we know, the princess in the tower throughout all of this. Yeah.

But unlike Kat, you know, where Kat has wonderful memories of her father coming back and being like, did you wait for me, little Kat? Sansa's memories are of her father being beheaded right in front of her. Exciting. The Great John's riders emerge, descending down on the Lannisters, and the valley rings with echoes. Lannister! Winterfell! Tully! Riverrun! Tully! She realizes there's nothing else she can see. She just has to close her eyes and listen to the sound of swords on shields, steel on steel, the thunder of drums, hiss of arrows, and men shouting and begging for mercy.

hiss of arrows and men shouting and begging for mercy over at the other side there the green fork i do want to comment that uh they are shouting for winterfell as well from tyrian's chapter as he wrenched the blade free he heard a shout eddard a voice ring out for eddard and winterfell the night came thundering down on him swinging the spiked ball of a morning star around his head. I like this line just because it makes me think of Arya's chapter later on when she herself is screaming, Winterfell! Winterfell! When the Night's Watchmen that she's traveling with get attacked, which is actually also a very sad moment, but it's funny because she's yelling Winterfell and Hot Pie's yelling Hot Pie, so it has levity. Yeah, it's my because she's yelling Winterfell and Hot Pie's yelling Hot Pie Hot Pie! it's the cutest except for the part where they're being attacked as children anyways

there's also a line here somewhere and I didn't grab it where Catelyn's also if I remember correctly thinking of the people who they're injured in battle and they may die or not in parentheses or something, or be given the gift of mercy

or not. And I'm like, oh, interesting that that comes up in this chapter. Mercy, mercy, mercy. Yeah, speaking of Arya, bringing that up again. Well, the way that the valley is situated plays tricks on Catelyn. At one point, she hears Rob calling, to me, to me, and Greywyn snarling. He must snarl very loudly. Growling and snapping his teeth, tearing a flesh, shrieks of fear. There's this line of, was there only one wolf? It was hard to be certain. Just like, hashtag Robb Stark was a warg.

Mood, absolutely. I would die on that hill. That he was like, I think, maybe the most proficient after Bran. I mean, I would hope so, honestly, only because we don't get the POV. I hope there's all sorts of badass shit going on there. I'm going to be honest. But it does make sense, especially because Grey Wind is just in the battle going. And I don't know, to go back to some of those Jaime chapters we once talked about, when he's in it, in battle, you know, with his sword and all, and he's swinging it around. And I mean, even the chapter with Brienne where they're both fighting and sparring, right? That is so passionate.

We've talked about that, too. It's very passionate, as we talked about with Jean. It is, but it's not passionate as we talked about passionate passionate passionate sword dancing and i mean this is rob has to put his whole heart and soul into it and to borrow from our other series his dark materials it kind of reminds me of when the heroine in that series reads her magical alethiometer and has to put her brain into a whole nother a whole nother state of being you know like she has to put her her thought process into like this different feeling and i imagine it's similar for warging right like i kind of imagine from what we know from aria firsthand and brand you have to kind of just like change your state of being into an animals yeah and i

don't know when you're in the zone killing people and slashing and there's blood everywhere and you're just in fight or flight and you're probably in panic mode too. But you're just in shock. And I can imagine that would make it easy to slip into an animal. Yeah. In this magic. It's just a boy and his dog in the midst of battle. Yep, just a boy, just a dog. Just a boy yep just a boy just a dog just more obvious sounds dwindle until there's only the wolf and as a red song breaks in the east gray wind howls again

and throughout the chapter we see that gray winds howl acts as a battle horn this wolf howl and maybe hey i wonder if there's something like there, right, that we might see later on as a connection between the wolves, the north, and I don't know, some of the other horns that we see, especially like Jormund's. Yeah. That's a great thought. I never really thought about that, but that's actually, because I really thought that was prominent how the wolf howls,

especially in the Tyrion chapter, too, are just, like, paired. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Now that I think about it, and, like, this is, now I'm veering into tinfoil, but how no one really hears ghosts howl, though allegedly some people have heard it from far away, maybe, really, really far away. And yet, they blow. I know there's a theory, right, that the horn found at the fist of the first

men is Jormund's horn. They blow into it once and no sound comes out. Silent, but not. Thoughts. Anyways. Tinfoil. I like it. Speaking of animals, Rob returns on a different horse than he left on that's sad

um for the horse and his wooden shield adorned with a wolf's head is slashed to pieces but he is unhurt and that one is actually foreshadowing that one definitely for sure we know this ow

we do get his surcoat is covered in blood his glove is covered in blood and catalan at first is like oh my god are you hurt but no it is someone else's blood right probably tauren's and that is just so metaphorical as we said that's rob's first blood that's his uh that's his first bleeding and the language reminds me a little bit also of the bread riot in king's landing with sanza and the hound in the man's arm uh the line here is and this is how rob plays it right it's pretty pretty traumatized pretty in shock this is torrent's blood perhaps or he shook his head i do not know and then in the bread riot when they get sansa she says a man tried to pull me from the saddle the hound killed him i think his arm her eyes

widened and she put a hand over her mouth he cut off his arm rob turning from child to adult on that horse returning with a different horse returning from battles having seen these terrors of war he thought he was ready but it turns out no one is ready to go decimate another human being right it makes sense why these broken men we meet in story like the soon-to-be-here jamie lannister have turned this part of themselves off and tried to mute it and stop themselves from feeling in order to kind of compartmentalize and survive rob watch lord karstark's sons die be murdered for his life to protect him summer and spring is over innocence is lost and things are just going to get more complicated from here on yeah absolutely it's yeah he's a boy who comes out covered in blood and just the horrors of it all something i did think of too is the amount of people in his guard didn't ned go to the south

with 50 people oh i don't remember i want to say it was either 50 maybe it was a lot but I think in the streets with Jory feels really uh prominent here yeah of this this small guard Ned taking a small guard and then one by one they're dying in battle mm-hmm the the men that he knows right he's able to name all name them and Rob's trying trying to, but it's just so chaotic. So much is lost, and as you said, especially his innocence. A mob of men follow Rob. They're dirty, dented, and unlike him, though, they're grinning. They're led by Theon and the Greyjohn, dragging Sir Jaime Lannister and delivering him in front of Lady Stark. I'll be Jaime so I can flirt with you. Okay.

It makes me feel better if I get to just, like, hit on you, you know? Lady Stark, he said from his knees. Blood ran down one cheek from a gash across his scalp, but the pale light of dawn had put the glint of gold back in his hair. I would offer you my sword, but I seem to have mislaid it. It is not your sword I want, sir, she told him. Give me my father and my brother Edmure. Give me my daughters. give me my lord husband i have mislaid them as well i fear a pity the demands that catelyn makes for her family right uh the first thing that's the first thing in the house toy words that's what she asks jamie to give her and that repetition of those lines of give me, give me, give me. It's a sentiment that is echoed later in Catlin's other chapters, where give me turns into I want.

As the world doesn't give her what she wants. It denies it from her. And it's a refrain that comes up actually in the next chapter that i want i want i want not a punctuated ending with i want that happens in catelyn's seventh class chapter but also that that repetition of the things that she wants right that's in her second class chapter in that line that we read loud earlier this episode i'm not sure i think i might have brought it up before but also it's connected to cersei and jamie a way because of Jaime and Cersei later. One of the memories of them having sex and her having yelled out, I want, I want, I want.

And then just trailing off. And he knew the whole time that it was not he that she wanted. And what her wants are Cersei's desires, obviously, and the things that she wants that the world has taken away from her and denied her. And that's the same for Arianne, right? I think you might have brought that up during Arianne's chapter, is that connection of Cersei also saying that because Arianne, right, it really stands out in Arianne's chapter as she thinks of, as she regretfully thinks of Ahri's okart another you know another white knight and

she's just like i never wanted that i only wanted i wanted i wanted and again the things that are denied her right similar to circe's as arianne thinks of her birthright and respect the love of her father i mean there's so many things that women want in this series that are denied yeah absolutely every one of the northerners that came back they're rowdy you know for some guys who just murdered a bunch of other guys they're like oh we're back we got the kingslayer and theon's like kill him rob take his head off i know right like right in front of him too again they just don't have a lot of tact these men it's kind of a parallel to what happens to tyrian right where everyone's just like you know why don't we just kill him well these guys have had enough they are the same way catalan's sitting

there like am i the only one in this motherfucking woods? Rob is like, he's more useful alive and Ned never condoned the murder of prisoners after a battle. Of course, Jaime mocks that. He's like, ah, a wise man, an honorable. I do like that it's kind of a standout point. Like, we do things just slightly different

in Winterfell, Kingslayer. do things just slightly different in winterfell kingslayer okay just slightly just ever so slightly it does stand out on reread though that rob reminded them ned would never kill his prisoners well in just two chapters the lannisters yeah yep kill one of their prisoners yeah the one that is very very very Lannister doubly Lannister if you will yeah the most Lannisters they get

the most Lannister blood you can snag that is some Jonah Ryan and his wife Lannister you know what I'm saying some Nabokov well Catelyn commands jamie to be put in chains and take it away and rob agrees advising them to make sure that there's a strong guard around him lord karstark will wand his head oh my god interesting catelyn calum is ordered to put him in chains well hmm hmm no comment so the great john agrees

and catelyn is finally like all right i'll bite what the fuck happened what's up with the lord karstark stuff that keeps coming up and rob is like he gets that same this is sad rob looks away and gets the same brooding look that ned often gets and he stutters that jamie

jamie killed them that's real bummer real ptsd sad uh gilbert glover explains the kingslayer murdered tauren and eddard karstark as well as darren hornwood when he saw the battle lost jamie had rallied his retainers fighting to get to rob hoping to cut him down and to institute rainyhaeny, the cannon ship. Jaime's fighting arrogance. Certainly he's not afraid to die. That's for sure. That is something that is big here. Rob then brings a little callback though to Jaime. He's like, Jaime mislaid his sword. There's going to be some mislaying of swords. He mislaid his sword and uttered karstark's neck after taking torrent's

hand off and splitting darren's skull open the whole time shouting for rob he begins to say if they hadn't stopped him and ketlyn finishes for him i should be mourning in place of lord karstark you know again it's not dissimilar to you know, Jamie and Ned in the streets of King's Landing killing off his guard. And it's sad because it's 15 year old boy sitting here seeing all these people die in horrendous ways around him. And there's just a lot of neck action going on, though. Can we talk about that? Splitting Darren's skull open. He's mislaid his sword and eddard karstark's neck a little on the nose a little heavy-handed and intentional

right because eddard's about to get a sword mislaid in his neck literally soon especially when cadeline next explains to rob that these men did what they were meant to do. They died protecting their liege lord. And of course, just to bring the head stuff back in, Theon did just moments ago also say to Rob, take his head off about Jaime, which isn't that what Joffrey is, you know, jeering to the crowd and to ill and pain soon. Yeah, it's a little on the neck.

Yeah, Theon does it. Theon does it too. You know, he's like, yes, me too. Roderick, yeah. I too can try to do this. Yeah, these are all hints. Theon has really been telling us all his hints, like last chapter, of course, as we said, with him being

like, well, what if we just took that castle? Who cares if it's impossible?'s like i can do anything theon in clash i cannot do things well and of course these beheadings here are really big in clash because we get the beheaded karstark thing going on there more karstark death and uh theon of course with the taking the head off and i don't know i think this is such a glaring difference again coming back to what was said about ned never doing this to his prisoners rob refuses to dishonorably harm this hostage and he's on the principle ned wouldn't ned gets killed publicly violently humiliatingly in front of the entire world and his daughters in just a couple chapters.

The immense grief Rob's feeling at seeing Karstark's sons die in battle and at Karstark seeing his sons die in battle. And then King's Landing with Arya and Sansa watching their dad die for a joke, for a lark. This leads perfectly to those two big losses coming up in these next two chapters first we have drogo and rego for daenerys and then for arian sans and ned catalan's plot is actually pretty parallel here for the next two chapters to what danny's fight is too she's meant to be sent home constantly right in the next book two books and sent somewhere to be preserved like a westerosi trust fund baby doll whatever and uh danny in this aspect is fighting against that too for vase dothrak right going home to

vase dothrak now being left out of the action becoming a crone a blood rider dies with his cow you know that child they will take you to vase doth to the Crones. That is the last duty they owe him in life. When it's done, they'll join Drogo in the Nightlands. Dany didn't want to go back to Vaes Dothrak and live the rest of her life among those terrible old women. Yet she knew that her knight spoke the truth. Drogo had been more than her sun and stars. He had been the shield that kept her safe.

I will not leave him, she said stubbornly, miserably. She took his hand again. I will not. Catelyn, I mean, what's left for her? Take care of Rickon and raise him if she can. Well, after Clash, that's not really in the books. She could go home to emptiness, loneliness in those marble walls, and eventually forced to marry off again.

She's still young. You know, watch the lady hornwood situation go on even that's not dissimilar from what could happen with no real guard and no real people in winterfell to keep her safe or in the south to keep her safe neither cadeline nor daenerys want that future for themselves and they both do set out to change that so much that it could be said it burns them up from within that's a that's a great point i haven't thought about that as part of why catelyn might be reluctant to return home after clash and also it's hostile i guess i mean being married off to ruse bolton maybe yeah also i would point out that it's pronounced hoster no i'm just kidding i'm sorry

what are words but yeah absolutely just get sold off again exactly i mean ketlyn's fate turns out to be a lot worse uh yeah sold out for a different reason She tells Rob to honor Karstark's sons with his valor and to grieve for them, but not now. They have no time. They've won a battle, not a war, and they must save Riverrun. So you get a little bit here of Catelyn's really codified sense of Westerosi duties in here, along with a dash of classism, coming back to, you know, her love of odes and so forth that we discussed at the beginning of the episode. And yes, she says that one should honor the deaths of the Karstarks, but at the end of a chapter where so many

names were thrown out of, like, who's going to guard the young wolf, right, and ensuring his protection, you can sort of see a little bit of, she's like, well, I mean, that was their job, to keep you alive. And C catelyn as she often does and has to right she steals herself of any sympathy i think for lord karstark which is really interesting because i think catelyn is because of her position as a mother

you know you sometimes think that she would be more sympathetic but she's she's very much not right um or you would be think she was more sympathetic to other characters she's she's selectively so and i think that there's an aspect of rob's survival that is i think understandably that is understandably selfishness to that thankfully for her it was not her own child of course like her child's the most important of them because he's like the lord right of course he's the most specialist and the whole thing falls apart without him as we find out you know in book three whatever but i mean i'm not a parent i i'm not sure that most parents that would feel differently from her just then yeah i mean if it was yours absolutely and i mean i can say like

i think there's also a part of cadeline and this is a part of her right in this that she's like well i i've suffered and i have to put this out there and this is a risk i have to take so they're doing the same thing they're doing their duty and because you know she's been made to suffer and had to play the waiting game, quite literally, as we've talked about this chapter. And that's systemic, right? Like that is, I mean, she just thinks these people are there for that purpose in this war. I mean, that's, it's war. Yeah.

It's not just picking flowers in the glass gardens anymore. I get it. And in war, you know, as we said earlier, people die. But now that I think about it in the context of Lady Stoneheart here, she doesn't really think of like, I mean, we're told that Lord Karstark wants vengeance for his sons, right? He will probably kill Jaime, even though it's not very advantageous, because we're like, that is a very valuable bargaining chip, Lord Karstark. All right, we got people we need to get back here from king's landing it's very it's very obvious to everyone that isn't lord karstark to be honest and he kills children because of it right and that's that's like completely immoral right and they point that out they're like yo those kids were those kids were innocent right killing them isn't going to bring back your children as alaria points out she's like what will what will vengeance get

me like a head can a head sing me songs at night and yet despite all that and caitlin being like now we're not gonna fucking do that that is who caitlin becomes she becomes like lord karsark just willy-nilly exacting vengeance on people yeah she uh she does a lot of like well if the rules just don't fucking matter anymore let's just hang everyone hang everyone in nooses that's what we do now in this family i mean how can the rules matter when the biggest rule of all has been broken right that the dead come back to life yeah yeah the it's all made up and the points do not matter in westeros by the end of this series so it is made up it's a fictional series oh my god what how could you break it to me this way i thought we were gonna wait till the finale uh theon exclaims that he had the time of his life

in this battle he's like like, the battle was great. Totally great. 10 out of 10. The Lannisters lost 10 men for each of ours that fell. The realm hasn't seen a victory like this since the Field of Fire. I thought this was kind of weird of Theon to say, but it's a very typical Theon thing to say at this point. It's just not like super bright, which again, typical Theon thing to say at this point it's just not like super bright which again typical dion thing to say at this point because i mean i'm pretty sure that this line is actually just exposition because again information dump chapters but i'm like targaryens had three dragons and i guess i just never really

think of the field of fire as a huge targaryen victory i mean obviously it is right like that's very clear but i feel like the field of Fire is so often framed as this very huge defeat for the other kingdoms. And it's intentionally done so, right? Because it's a cautionary tale. The Field of Fire ends up being used as an example to the other kingdoms of like, alright, so are you going to bend the knee or are we going to bring all our dragons over there so you can face the same fate? And the North got that message loud and clear and tauren stark knelt but this is a very different scenario because the starks who here being

victorious like rob isn't kneeling now and he's not gonna kneel in the next chapter as this book ends there's a very different outcome right but they're like uh what if instead of kneeling independence so i'm just like theon grayjoy please read a book hour well here's okay so i think there's a couple things happening here i think maybe this was just the first big one that george gardened up you know like this is the one battle he knew from the top he wanted the targaryens to have had in full this is the one he had etched out because this is the one battle he knew from the top he wanted the Targaryens to have had in full this is the one he had etched out because this is like the second real big mention of it in this book the first mention we actually get is in Tyrion too when he's staring at the skull

of Balerion and it's made reference again in Eddard 11 when the people are petitioning him on the throne and they talk about the fields being fired so I can see Eddard thinkingI when the people are petitioning him on the throne and they talk about the fields being fired. So I can see Eddard thinking of it then and like maybe some of the Riverlands idea because they're burning the Riverlands and raising it. I almost wonder if that was where he, where the ball stopped, right? Like where he was like, that's where the spin stops. I'm going to do something with that. But it doesn't come back up until Black water with tyrian the line is a terrible beauty like dragon fire tyrian wondered if aegon the conqueror had felt like this as he flew above his field of fire so i don't know maybe and then you also have a lot of uh you've been talking about the outline

the 93 outline and how a lot changed since then but a lot of things are still kind of interesting here kind of come up that remind you of the outline and it almost makes me think maybe he was going to expedite dragons coming to westro sooner at this point in the story you know in his head i think that's a big one uh maybe he was still in the trilogy mindset you know don john danny tyrian you know that whole thing because after this so the world of Ice and Fire starts to get developed. Field of Fire is expanded pretty well in it. There are no So Spank Martins expanding on it in detail. So after that, a bunch of other battles of the Targ start to show up.

In A Storm of Swords, Sansa and the Tyrells mention Field of Fire. They talk about the Reach's involvement, and he kind of expands a little there. Jaime brings it up with Cleos and Brienne, and then Dany thinks about it in Astapor. But then the really significant mention we get after that is not even until Dance. Dany recounts it as one of the many tales Viserys told her. So I wonder if like at the time that was just the big one, right? And then he decided on all these other ones and now there's fire and blood and the dance. And I think he was just picking what war he was gardening, you know? I think that what you said is right.

Like that makes sense. And it's not just picking what war. I mean, thinking about this holistically as that first book and how it ends. I think that's a great point that you said that the field of fire comes up twice in this book. We get a lot of like other world building things of other battles, et cetera, that don't come up in the first book,

but the field of fire has to, and the emphasis on it being a great victory and what you're saying, you know, how it's portrayed in Tyrion, because then it adds weight to how the book ends when suddenly for the first time in over a hundred years the knight was alive with the song of dragons like it it all goes together it feels like that's the importance and I think maybe the direction just changes you know changes to it the dance I think has become one of the biggest parts of that in the Blackfriars. As far as Targaryen stories that are driving the Targaryen parts of the story,

I think those two have become much more significant. But also, he's developed so much more. And I mean, you and I know this. We did the dance till it was done over on Patreon. We talked a lot about House Valyrian. We've talked about the Maiden Vault. We've talked about all that stuff. I just think

now he's developed so many more ideas and stories to run with and maybe the field of fire did its uh its service for that and i'm sure it will come back yeah it did its service for that and to draw the parallels for when you know danny hatches them and you're like oh shit three dragons wow just like aeon yes but yeah in terms of what constitutes a giant victory they hold at least 100 people hostage as well as 12 lords bannermen lord west sterling banefort greenfield estrin bra, Mallor the Dornishman, and three Lannisters, Jaime and two nephews. Exposition. But also plot. This is important for the plot, as we've

discussed. But Catelyn interrupts Theon's boasting, asking him, okay, but do you have, like, Lord Tywin? Which they do not. So... I love it. I love what she snaps back with.'s like okay well until you do the war is not done theon smart ass i know right it's like shut your fucking mouth for like two minutes

theon important people are talking she is saying that and yeah i mean that's true that's it that's all you need to say like so you get more time but no so we end the chapter with Rob raised his head and pushed his hair back out of his eyes my mother is right we still have Riverrun that's a good boy

ready to go win his war save grandpappy honey you can't save grandpappy he's got the ulcers it's a bummer everything's a real bummer about this art real victorious though i mean but you know what i i can't be sad because next week even in all of the grim sadness we are going to have something so exciting more than you know're going to have some surprises up our sleeves next week for you because next week is

Northern Independence. Is that next week, I believe? I mean, I don't know. You tell me, Chloe. Kang in the North? Yeah, I think so. I think we're going to close out a Game of Thrones next week for Catelyn.

Wow. Wow. I know. Isn't that kind of... Feels crazy. We're through the first book pretty much already. We'll start up Clash soon. And then we're going back to a Game of Thrones and we're doing it again.

Yeah, I mean, that's it. It's wild to me that this entire book series is only two books you know i george is i i don't know how he's gonna wrap it up in three books a trilogy i look forward to the way that cadillac stark's arc ends in the 18 books that george rr martin will be publishing next week yes well if you want to follow us for all of those 18 books or you have something to say about it, perhaps you also want to send us animal pictures or you want

to keep an eye out for if, you know, Robin gives us permission to share the blueberry mood chart. You can find us on social media, on Twitter at Girls Gone Canon C-A-N-O-N or again perhaps you would like to send us animals or an animal mood chart for us to figure out who are we. You can send us an email at girlsgoncanon at gmail.com. A blued board.

Yeah, I really, I highly, highly recommend you sending us those. I can't wait to see them. Please send me your animal mood board. You know, 15 to 18 slots. That's perfect perfect show me their moods yeah dude we love it animal make sure you're subscribed to us for future mood boards uh and future catalan episodes of course on a podcast streaming platform near you whatever you like if you like spotify google play itunes pod beat uh acast audacity wait that's not a thing fuck when will we get this right audible amazon podcasts pandora iheart radio you name it we're on there just give us a quick google you'll find us we are technically on

audacity but only on my computer. We have mine. Yes. You can also find us, though, on Patreon. Patreon.com slash Girls Gone Canon. And for patrons in the $5 tier and above, you do get special episodes each month. And again, last month, we went on a spring break tour to our Pentoshi Penthouse Edition. MTV Cribs. It actually kind of was. to our Pentoshi Penthouse edition. MTV Cribs. It actually kind of was. Actually,

it wasn't. It was... There were a lot of feelings that episode. Just like in a reality show. Oh my god. We'll see you next week for Catelyn in A Game of Thrones, closing it out for Catelyn 11. I have been one of your hosts, Chloe.

And I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana. Whispering wood. Whisper, whisper, whisper, whisper. Rob me, rob me. Oh my god, I'll show you what my wood does. Sub Jamie Lannister to Kat.