Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 128 - AGOT Catelyn XI

Episode Date: June 11, 2021

The King in the North! The King in the North!! THE KING IN THE NORTH!!!!!!   Links mentioned:  - Laws of Ice and Fire — "Why Shouldn't We Rule Ourselves Again?" https://lawsoficeandfire.wordpress.com/2020/01/29/why-shouldnt-we-rule-ourselves-again-westeros-and-the-social-contract/ Sound Credits:  AUDIO USED   Fielastro - Sword Draw - https://freesound.org/s/423935/   DJ Burnham - Sword Draw - https://freesound.org/s/67424/ ross_sinc -  hall full of people  - https://freesound.org/s/444792/  Mediapaja2009 - DRAWING SWORDDS - https://freesound.org/s/162560/ kevp888 - MEN YELLING @ ROOSTER FIGHTS (look I'm not making this up) - https://freesound.org/s/441552/ Anguish by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3373-anguish License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license  --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl] Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Tame and Read, A Song of Ice and Fire, Episode 128, Catalin XI in a Game of Thrones. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. Yes, it is lucky number 11. A lot happens. Let's chat. This is the big time.

This is the big one. And what's crazy is we already have covered this. We did a little sneak peek at some of this right back on Patreon when we did an episode on Northern Independence. Who knows? was that a year ago two years who knows but i'm so excited to finally be back uh it was fourth of july either last year or the year before or some some bullshit patriotic i don't know whatever doing this is the real time i only remember because our good friend j Mack loved it, if I recall.

Holy shit. That's why I remember we did it. But we did a Northern Independence episode some July. And here we are again doing Northern Independence again. We're doing it live with each other. Yeah, absolutely. And so this is where it all starts. And it is a wild chapter.

There's a lot of things set up and technically the whole independence part right that is just setting everything up for the next arc of this of this story that is ongoing yes but this is it for a game of thrones right so this is our last catalan a game of thrones. We'll be returning next week to start up with, of course, a Clash of Kings, Akok, and I'm excited about that

because things pick up a little speed for a bit before we get real sad again. I mean, if you think about it, this is part of how you get that Clash of Kings, right? They make one more king here and then there's a clash of them.

And absolutely, we are barreling through these catlin episodes and it is not an emotional roller coaster it's just like i don't know an emotional drop the entire time like that that droppy tower thing but only that doesn't stop yeah i mean look at it this way we only have 14 chapters after this of catalan we are like almost halfway through wild insane insane well this month for our patreon episode speaking of patreon episodes we will not be rehashing northern independence to eliana's dismay but we will be doing a his dark materials themed episode we're going to be covering the short novella called the collectors that is available via audiobook or via e-reader so if you're a kindle or a barnes and noble or whatever you like it's not released by hard copy yet to my knowledge so philip pullman's the collectors it's fun it's a fun one yeah so you

cannot collect that book yet but you can collect some knowledge as we go over it this month but some other things you could do you could collect more friends if you would like to join the girls gone canon discord also available on our patreon for patrons ten dollars and up that's the thunder tier and above once a month we do a brunch slash happy hour yes this month we're going to be having that on june 26th we're going to do uh well we haven't decided yet but we have some ideas tinkering around right to celebrate pride month and uh i don't know have have some good times with our friends we do a lot of this happens monthly right we do it every month there's a bunch of get to know you sometimes we do games we are now always doing giveaways of fun fandom

collectibles or art so you might win something more than friendship which is the true prize but uh you might win something else too if you come so you never know collect some art oh you could become an art collector and that is in theme with that episode yes for the collectors wow wow wow we pulled it round circle and coming back to his dark materials before we move on to some fascinating fascinating emails or messages of note to talk about we are starting the amber spyglass the third his dark materials book at the end of the month if you are a his dark materials fan tune in keep your subscribe button nice and followed here because we will be releasing some episodes on that soon yes very excited speaking of things that are just emotional

drops that's that's one of them sad a big emotional drop at the end yeah if we're like real sad by the end of 2021 this is why if we are big sad yep a lot of people are asking me how are you combating this i'm like vitamin d D, therapy, you know, these are the ways I deal with this podcast. Oh, I just, I don't know if I do combat it. I just embrace it and then I'm big sad. Well, other things to be big sad about. There's some emotional stuff going on in our emails and tweets of note but this time it's actually an email on podbean comment of note this week our good friend clint whom you all may remember from our episode at the veil has some words about mourning vardus egan so clint has pointed out it has actually been a month since we all last spoke on caitlin's seventh a game of thrones chapter things were

so innocent then before vardusardis Egan died. Life hasn't been the same since. The nights are colder, the stars dimmer, and even blackberries and cream don't taste quite as sweet. I think about Sir Vardis every day. I know you do too. He tried.

Clint's making a lot of assumptions about me right now. Well, Clint continues about how he's been listening to our Whispering Woodisode that I'm sure many of you listened to last week and says, Needed to write to respond to Robin's question about whether Catelyn Stark looks at things through a legalist lens. The answer is absolutely yes. As Mary and I like to say on Learned Hands hands all the starks are lawyers and catlin is perhaps the second best the best is john you can and will see so much evidence of this throughout the rest of her arc my favorite example of this is a storm of swords cat 5 aka the rob's will chapter where

cat and rob take turns trying to lawyer the fuck out of each other. Technical term, over succession, it might even be the most lawyerly chapter in A Song of Ice and Fire. Regardless, Robin's catch that Catelyn correctly suspected Jaime had chucked Bran out a window because her legalist brains erred in on the most famous Oathbreaker in the realm was not one that I had considered previously and is a fantastic point. Kudos to them! i am also very much looking forward to your discussion of the next cat chapter that's this one everyone this is the next cat chapter um another one of my favorites that chapter sad as it is serves as the basis for the northern independence and the severing of the lochian social contract between the North and the Iron Throne forever and ever. Amen. Why shouldn't we

rule out- Can you say hallelujah here? Yeah, sorry. Yes, hallelujah, sisters. God. We haven't done that in a while, actually. We should bust that out again a little more. I use it all the time. I don't know where you've been.

Dude, I don't even know that we did a Northern Orn Independence really did go on why shouldn't we rule ourselves again is one of the purest distillations of the right to revolution and popular sovereignty that we get in the series and i can't wait to hear you two dig in on it also clint adds ps here's a link to an essay i wrote about northern independence if that's useful to you all and then pps rip sir vargas egan one more time so we are going to link this essay for you all oh yeah i i've read this essay and look i don't want to blow any smoke up clint but it is a good essay i did appreciate the very romantic email back to us of how he's been thinking of us on his lonely you know what what was it monday tuesday

night whenever we recorded it's been lonely tuesday night since i know clint i know i'm just kidding i have a lot of things about me look this essay is good though uh you guys have to read it it's it's fun. Clint breaks down types of social contracts in Westeros as well as out of Westeros, and three different theorists in social contracts, describing them to characters like Thomas Hobbes to Euron, John Locke to Robb, and Jean-Jacques Rousseau to The Brotherhood Without Banners, which was like, that one blew my mind a little bit.

He explains it really well. I'll let you all at home take time to read it and i won't spoil it yet for you but i do want to specifically talk what he says about john lock i love this lock believed that while the state of nature was not inherently bad a civil government designed to protect the life liberty and property of its citizens was preferable the civil government would begin with familial bonds, a level one social contract, but would eventually progress to a structured system to protect those rights, but also who could be replaced or overthrown if they failed to do so, or otherwise became tyrannical, a more formalized level two social contract. Locke also championed a significant legislative power, example given

parliament, that was separate from the executive power of the king. I love just the expansion of Locke, expanding government right to be for people, not just for the ruling family with a drop of dragon blood, as we're going to talk about in this in this chapter a lot i'm sure and it's a great essay go read it clint talks about it better i don't know why we didn't have him come on for this episode what were you thinking uh clint gone canon well we brought him on for the tyrian trial but also i mean clearly he has a lot of feelings about cervartis egan so it was important that was important no you're right you're right yes and yeah i'm excited to read that essay and clint just has a lot of great thoughts in general both on learned hands and the

laws of ice and fire blog so as chloe said check that out i will be too and i love that robin and and clint are using our emails to communicate with one another. I feel like a raven. Wow, should we? Maybe we should, like, join them together. The next step of fan mail is being like, have you met? Yeah, do we, like, besides, like, the Discord, do we offer a matchmaking service? I don't know.

I don't know. Do you love Servartis Egan? You're gonna love Clint. If you like Servardus Egan and talking about legalistic stuff. Anyways, speaking of songs, we got this comment on Podbean from Montelius, who asked regarding the previous episode. This tickles me. alias who asked regarding the previous episode this tickles me is gimme gimme gimme a reference to the abba song with a man after midnight being foreshadowing for caitlin slash jamie shippers oh interesting i do think there are lyrics that correspond with this part of me wanted to say it was jamie and illen in a way though these lyrics but it could also be i like both of them you know i mean

they both have one weak player in both of these but we don't have to talk about him uh the lyrics from ava if you will aliana art here's not a soul out there no one to hear my prayer gimme gimme gimme a man after midnight won't somebody help me chase the shadows away take me through to the darkness to the break of the day i mean i don't know maybe it is maybe it is the catelyn and jamie catelyn jamie shippers since i know uh you're out there have we figured out what we're calling that one? Is that Jat? Jadolin? Jat? I don't know. Someone on the Discord,

who was it? Was it Baika, who suggested it was actually Robme and not Rami or something? I'm sorry if I'm remembering the wrong person, dear friends. Yeah, for ship names. They're all beautiful. They're great ship names.

Judd is an option. Jadalyn. Jamalyn? Maybe this is Jadalyn. Jatelyn? Jatelyn. We'll think about it. But yeah, we have chaotic shipping on this podcast. No, I think it's only right. I will say,

when we say gimme gimme gimme, I love the idea that it's an abba reference i as i was telling clint i feel like people who i know a couple people were into abba and like they seem like they're having so much fun but i i will say when i think gimme gimme i'm not thinking abba i'm thinking gimme like i'm thinking gimme more right by brit. Yeah Brittany. Yeah it's Brittany bitch. It's Catelyn bitch. That's where we are. I do think there's that connection with the I want for both Cersei

and Catelyn and this and gimme gimme gimme so I mean that could this could be it. This is a great call out. This is a great spot by them. And we're gonna come back to that right later on in this episode. The things that we were discussing about gimme and wanting show up towards the end of this chapter. But what we want now is a lightning round.

Yes, let's keep it moving. Some chaos in the lightning round and we'll start off with Daenerys VIII. Daenerys approves of the mage's blood magic to try to save Drogo. She goes into a very dangerous labor. Aria 5. Dad, no! Bran 7. Also, dad, no!

No! Fuck. Sansa 6. Honestly, a little more dad, no! Sansa, no! This is, like I said, painful. Painful. It is a really hard section of the book, and it doesn't get easier.

Daenerys 9. Daenerys must, yes! Daenerys must say goodbye to Drogo. Daenerys, no! Dany, no! Tyrion 9. Tyrion gets a new job. Tyrion, yes. Ohion 9. Tyrion gets a new job. Tyrion, yes.

Oh, okay. Tyrion, yes, suddenly. Jon 9. Jon must decide if he's a brother of the Watch or a bastard boy who wants to play at war. Jon, maybe. Well, that brings us to Catelyn 11. Family, duty, honor. Returning to the river doesn't feel triumphant at first.

But stick around for the sword noises! Catelyn XI. Leaving Riverrun with her infant son felt like a thousand years ago. They crossed the Tumble Stone, taking a small boat north to Winterfell, and now her son has grown and they've returned he's wearing plate and mail and he's seated next to his dire wolf on a boat theon grayjoy sits with him and catelyn sits behind the stern a second boat follows them with her uncle brinden the great john and lord karstark they shoot down the tumble stone and the splash and

the rumbling of the water wheel brings back childhood memories to Catelyn, punctuated with a sad smile for those memories. From the walls of the castle, soldiers and servants shout down to them, Catelyn, Rob, Winterfell, every rampart bears a house tully flag. It's that silver leaping trout against a blue and red field. I assume you all know it. It is a stirring sight. But it does not lift her heart. We have a line. She wondered if indeed her heart would ever lift again. Oh, Ned. Just that that doesn't even

lift her heart to see those, especially with what she walks into. Her dad's dying, too. Our dad, Ned, is dead. No. Her dad's dying. This is... It's a rough chapter.

This is also a dead-no chapter. The water... Different dad. Yeah, this is a... Two dads, one no. Oh. The water gate comes into view, and the heavy chains slowly lift the iron portcullis upward

the lower half of it is red with rust and it drips mud on them as they pass beneath the barbed spikes okay this is is this a metaphor this is all a metaphor here right the barbed spikes mere inches above their heads uh can't help but think about Brandon Stark in that moment, right? With barbed wires wrapped around his neck. But literally, these barbed spikes are merely inches above their heads, threatening to kill them all, just like the spikes in King's Landing as they begin this rebellion by the end of the chapter. It has that same energy of Sansa's thoughts about one false move.

You know, if she just just slips she would lose everything and even the colors here right the lower half red with rust and it drips mud brown oxidized bloody mud right like rich mud gross yes absolutely that's a great point i wasn't even thinking yes that imagery is so clear with it and i mean right the rust iron blood all of it and and even beyond the barbed spikes right you were talking about that and i think it also echoes the way that the northern crown looks from what we've heard so that itself also being as you were saying not just the barbed wire around brandon's neck but it also being upon their heads yeah it's not a comfortable looking crown yep no heavy is the crown

well catalan contemplates how well the portcullis would stand to a ram with all that rust as they pass under walls. The sunlight disappears under the bridge and they emerge from the shadows as they enter the shipyard. Her brother waits on the water stair for her, surrounded by boats, large and small, and near Tully Istaki with shaggy auburn hair and a fiery beard. He wears a battle-torn breastplate

and his blue and red cloak stained by blood and smoke fashionista titus blackwood as we've discussed in previous episodes in the jamie episodes interestingly uh stands with him wearing a bright yellow armor with elaborate inlaid vine and leaf patterns his raven feather cloak is draped over his shoulders. Titus has led the sortie, saving Edmure from the Lannister camp. I love that Edmure is wearing his, like, armor, his battle armor, to go greet Catelyn.

It seems like a very little brother, look at me, big sister, what I did, kind of thing. I love that about Edmure to be honest i'm not like yeah i'm big on the edmure like defense squad as as people have called them previously which we'll probably get into in later chapters we also speaking of chapters uh things that we've discussed in other POVs, talked a lot about rivers, especially in Theon's chapters, right? When we were talking about how one cannot step in the same river twice, because, you know, not the same river, not the same man, blah, blah, Heraclitus. Anyways, and also the crossing of Rubicons, blah, blah, blah.

That's actually what Heraclitus said, believe it or not. what Heraclitus said, believe it or not. Riverrun fulfills, I think, both of these rivery roles. As Kat revisits the place of her girlhood, finally again at her true end of the crossroads, as we discussed a few chapters ago, she's reconciling this home that she knew, her once strong father,

and how both the castle and the people have aged, especially her father. And she's changed too, right? Now she's a widow and also bringing her teenage warrior son who is clearly not an infant anymore but it's also a point of no return for the north right their rubicon as the lords decide to crown her son like after that the sarks can't go back they that's it and yeah they will no longer abide being ruled by lannisters but in a literal sense it's also very much a point of no return because catelyn never goes back to the north neither

does rob as far as we know but you know things could change things could change for catelyn in the winds of winter you know one day i don't know tomorrow tomorrow when the winds of winter comes out next week look under your chair admir commands the guards at the water stair to help bring in his guests, and they scramble to pull in the boats. Greywyn bounds out of the ship, and one of the men lurches backward from him. It's the cutest thing ever, right? I know. He abruptly is like, what?

Oh my god. And he leans back, and he's just sitting in the water, submerged in the river. And everyone gets a little, they laugh at this, they all needed a quick laugh to kind of relieve the tension, and he gets a little sheepish. And Theon, Theon vaults over the boat and does the most like respectful milf movement, and he lifts Catelyn out of the boat by her waist onto the dry steps. I was like, okay, Theon, getting a little handsy there with Lady Stark now that she's, you know, a widow.

Holy shit. You're just, you're just, okay. You presumed? She's only 32. She's definitely a MILF, you know, which, which allegedly may or may not be a slur now. Oh, well, allegedly, it's a mother that dion would like to fuck would you like me to do that as an acronym instead anyways so he he lifts her out of the boat and there's actually a such a sweet moment with edmure embracing her and calling her his sweet sister

which oddly usually when we hear sweet sister it's what tyrian about cersei but here we're hearing it from edmure about catalatelyn she thinks that his mouth was made for smiles but he doesn't smile right now his neck is bandaged and he looks worn and tired from battle and strain yo Edmure tried hard he tried so hard also speaking of like you know earlier they mention Edmure's appearance and i i like tobias menzies right i think he's a fantastic actor i don't think the show knew what to do with him so they did a really bad job writing for him but anyways when we talk about people who do not look like their book characters i'm gonna just say like tobias menzies does not look like

edmure tully you're not incorrect he does not it's Ednure Tully? You're not incorrect. He does not. It's really cute, though. It's like there is absolutely no direction for his character in the show. And let's, to be fair, like only a couple of the Starks are kind of accurate in their looks, right? That's true. Jon and Arya work out fine. But then you have Rob had more brunette hair and Bran had dark dark brown hair and rickon had brownish hair so whatever shireen was blonde which yeah as you said wait wasn't the

seed strong should have had black hair yeah interesting interesting it's a whole plot point that we're gonna discuss you know that comes up in this chapter but what else um yeah it's cute though because edmure is literally just like a decade older rob stockier with like craft beer belly you know what i mean like just just a few too many stouts or like wheat ales or ipas or whatever the kids are drinking yeah deaf uncle bod yeah he's he's got uncle bod yes he totally has uncle bod and I'm living for it but he's just like he's made of softer things he has a soft heart I love that

about Edmure he just wants to keep his friends safe and he just doesn't always have the means to do so yeah Edmure tells Catelyn he shares her grief and they want to give her vengeance against the lannisters but this is not uh this isn't right away her reaction right catalan says will that bring

ned back to me the wound was still too fresh for softer words she could not think about ned now she would not it would not do she had to be strong all that will keep i must see father yeah so we're gonna see this come up a few times in the chapter but it's just so sad in her grief catelyn just sort of touches on the idea of ned remembers and then just like buries it down can't think about him yet and it isn't really until her speech that i think we see ned really talk about Ned and really talk about what this loss means to her we'll get there later though

speaking about that is uh it does seem like she makes herself bottle it up for this first you know 70% of the chapter just so she can get to the end of the chapter yeah she's still kind of in the denial stage we'll get it we'll see her in the anger stage in a second but yes edmure tells her hosta awaits

in the solar hosta's steward steps in explaining hosta's bedridden and he instructed them to bring cattle into him at once edmure escorts her up the water stair across the lower bailey where peter and brandon had once dueled for her favor the sandstone walls loom above them and they pass through a door guarded by men in fish crest helms once alone she asks admira how their father is and it's not looking great he says his pain is constant the maesters say he won't be with them for long. And this fills Kat with a blind rage at the world, at her siblings, at the Lannisters, the maesters, at Ned, her father, the monstrous gods taking them from her. Yeah, so like I said, a second, here we are at that anger part of the grief cycle, which actually may not be a real thing, but I think a lot of people are taught dabda you know denial anger bargaining depression acceptance when it comes

to grief and now she's at anger it does feel like she has to like she's come home and she's the one that has to fucking clean up the bullshit mess you know uh like the sibling left to deal with the family funeral on their own and bear the brunt of it and i think kat has uh especially as the elder sister she's always felt like she's had to take a certain responsibility since you know they lost their mom and she's had to take that responsibility on herself and i i think that shines through the text right here like that she's just like why couldn't you guys just fucking take care of one thing just one thing one thing how are you all just failing me right now and especially because it could have meant losing her father right like

she's so she's so mad that like no one told her and that's part of it right they wouldn't let her know and and yeah part of it is probably her father didn't want her to know right maybe not yet and and we'll get to that in a bit but that's why right she tells ennard that they should have told her but yeah hosta forbade it especially because he was worried that if his enemies knew he was weak and catlin finishes with they might attack and we have this line uh this internal dialogue of it was your doing yours a voice whispered inside her if you had not taken it upon yourself to seize the dwarf they climbed the spiral stair in silence. There's that guilt, right, coming in. Yes.

Eating her alive, eating at her heart. And it's the same guilt that is going on in the neighboring Dany chapters right now, right? We talked about it a little bit last week. But there's a lot of just defiance and anger for the gods for betraying her in this way. And another line that more specifically than that really comes in here, especially with your discussion of the Rubicon, is, if I look back, I'm lost, right?

She withers for just a moment on this thought that this is my fault, this is my fault. But then she has to let it go and keep moving because she has to be strong once more for everyone else. And there's even a little something in what miriam as door tells denaris denaris says to her you warned me only death could pay for life i thought you meant the horse no miriam as door said that was a lie you told yourself you knew the price uh in In a way, for Catelyn, in her head, that is what she's reckoning with, right? Like, you knew the price of taking Tyrion,

and you did feel that it was that important, and it was. I mean, I would do the goddamn same thing. And it doesn't do to dwell on that, right, of what she already has done. And later, she actually calls for peace, which is really respectable, considering it's not going to happen.

One. for peace which is really respectable considering it's not going to happen one uh two she could save many lives if they had gone for a piece in a way you know the realm not just their lives not just the characters that we love in the povs we love but also the small folk and the people that actually like live there people like us uh and even more than that though like there is a little bit of compensation for her but the candle has already been more than lit and it just doesn't really do to dwell on it for her i really feel like it doesn't matter even if it was a negative thing or a positive thing to take to your unit just for her character she has to keep moving yeah i absolutely agree like and i think her guilt is really interesting and there's something that you said of of how she's taking the guilt that um reminded me a little i've heard people

like and sometimes the faith of the seven very obviously but also in the way the the way the tully's approach the faith of the seven or something who was it who said this that feels very catholic right and and you were saying something about her taking it as like oh it's my fault that reminds me of those lines of through my fault through my fault through my most grievous fault which is what they say now um because they switched up the mass on me and like what you were saying they like train you like for a bunch of years and they switch it up for like what shits and giggles and then i'm like horrible happens to me once or twice a year exactly and I'm like yo what the fuck

I thought I had this down right how can you switch this on me when I wasn't paying attention I guess the point is I should have been paying attention right but anyways um coming back to Catelyn and her guilt uh it is catholic guilt though it 100% feels like catholic guilt

as a catholic with guilt or an ex feels like Catholic guilt as a Catholic with guilt or an ex-Catholic with guilt it's Catholic guilt the Catholic guilt the Catholic guilt alright there are people who would definitely argue as we've discussed before that

cat taking Tyrion is what sets off the fighting in the war and I personally think that some sort of war would have happened anyway eventually because they were all prying their little finger in berries. They really, really wanted that to happen and Ned dying was Littlefinger's goal, I think, one way or the other. And technically he was supposed to be sent to

the wall, right? But Joffrey also fucked shit up. Anyways, regarding that guilt, you know, Cat thinking about this and nudging the idea that she might be guilty also kind of feels like a way to deal with that grief that know cat thinking about this and nudging the idea that she might be guilty also kind of feels like a way to deal with that grief that we were talking about that in this situation there's so much that's out of her control right she lost her husband her son is at this crazy war she's just found out after coming home and not seeing him for years that her father

is dying and so by putting herself at fault for tyrian and the war there's there's almost an aspect of like she's giving herself this sort of feeling of being in control right by saying that it was her fault something that she could have changed in in what happened even if it means hurting herself and it isn't true and yeah you know coming back to what you're saying of how that ties into danny's chapters like it it really ties well with as you said like the earlier one that we read at the beginning of that lightning round and also the next one right it feels really pointed that they're right next to one another and the moments that you pointed out here right from from danny's chapters their lines as danny realizes that drogo is never

returning to her that her husband is not the strong man that she remembers her beloved protector is gone and these are the same emotions that catelyn is going through when she sees her father so changed from the warrior she waited for and like the way that drogo is described and the way that hoster are described are like that they both like to sit in the sun and watch it right it's very similar yeah that's a great connection like even the language of their ends are so similar and i think this chapter is very pointed that like i i didn't realize how much hoster was a huge anchor in it as we're going to kind of talk about i just didn't realize how much of an anchor he was the first few times i read it and here i mean it feels more about hoster's upcoming death than it does ned's half the time you know because she's actually living this in this moment. Yeah, it feels like she's

got Hoster there so she doesn't have to feel the pain, right? To kind of push back the pain of losing her beloved husband. Now she can dedicate all of her pain and issues into this and project it into that and deal with it all later. She's compartmentalizing.

Yeah, keeping busy so that she doesn't have to feel it. That's healthy! She's compartmentalizing. Yeah, keeping busy so that she doesn't have to feel it. That's healthy! She's keeping busy. Wow. God. Wow. Okay. Meanwhile,

in the compartmentalizing, they climb up to Haster's solar, and Edmure says Haster likes to sit in the sun, watch the rivers. He had always been a broad, tall man, kind of portly as he grew, but now he didn't look so robust. He looked shrunken and sagging. When Cat last saw him, his beard was brown, right?

His hair was brown, and it was just streaked with gray. But now it's white as snow. Oh. Ha, yeah. A snow, Ned. No! Hoster a snow, Ned. No, oh, Ned. Oh, no, what have I done? Hoster recognizes Edmure's voice and realizes it's Catelyn,

murmuring, my little cat, and I watched for you. Edmure leaves them to talk. Okay, when I read that line, especially coming off the back of last week's chapter week's chapter, and how this is, like, capping off Kat's storyline, I cried, alright? I don't usually, unlike Chloe, I don't cry, like, as often when reading these chapters, and- What the fuck? What the fuck? Wow, way to project your issues onto me it's cause you were being a wimp oh my god

if I distract them if I point out Chloe crying no one will notice that I was crying you're being attacked you are being attacked for feeling betrayal this is sad this is with Ned's death

and like afterwards with the I watched for you and we know how she would say it and then he says it to her and then it just hurts so much the echo that repetition from the last chapter to this one stands out so much in a reread

what hurts so much, Eliana? All your babes? Oh, God. Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm tearing up now. Is this how you feel? Wow. I'm attacking her constantly. Just keep remembering, Eliana. She dies thinking that all

of her children are dead and lost to her. Actually, most of them are alive, to be honest, which is so funny to me. I'm like, damn, they didn't even get out of this that bad. All the Lannisters are dying, you know? Yeah. She actually, you know, she only lost one kid, right? Only the eldest right in front of her.

And you know what? I mean, that's what the firstborns are for, right? Me and you know. Actually, that's, yeah mean that's what the firstborns are for right me and you know actually that's yeah that's what i heard and that's why my parents were so strict besides all the other cultural stuff that's why they were so strict kind of like if we fuck this one up yeah uh well it is uh back to the depressing horrible sad shit uh hoster i i know there's been a lot of speculation about what is up with Hoster's ailment

he tells her he has crabs in his belly they're always pinching and Maester Vining gives him dream wine and milk of the poppy but he had wanted to stay awake to see her he confesses when the Lannisters had Edmure he was afraid he'd die without seeing any of them again.

Oh my god. It's like killing me. Yeah, I don't know what this speculation is. I don't know what it's... He has crabs in his belly. Stomach cancer. He has crabs in his belly. All right, there are little crabs in his belly.

What do people want? I wish it was as cute as that. But unfortunately, I think it's... A lot of people think it's alluding to stomach cancer. No, I agree. But I like... It probably is i think it's uh a lot of people think it's alluding to stomach cancer no i agree but i like it probably is but it's sad because or it's crabs you know it's such a bummer and yeah a lot of people speculate it's stomach cancer or something similar and that would make sense with the pain little lobsters bring in the lobsters bring in the dancing lobsters oh Oh, God, I'm so sorry.

What are we doing? This is, we're dealing with our grief right now. This is us. We're dealing with the grief. Yeah. Catelyn tells Hoster she's here with her son, Rob. He remembers Rob had his eyes. And then she's like, also, I brought you Jamie Lannister.

And I'm like, maybe that one's more for you, Catelyn. Then she's like, also, I brought you Jamie Lannister. And I'm like, maybe that one's more for you, Catelyn. There's something really poignant about this chapter, starting with Kat, with Rob as an infant in her head, right? The last time she was here was with Rob in her arms. And it's so poignant that she has spent her whole last 15 years worrying about being northern enough. But yet here her son is coming to her

childhood home looking like a young hoster toly come again walking the ramparts right cheering the people on that cheer him and he's accepted almost immediately as these people's ruler we're gonna have a great big fat exploration of some of the misdeeds hoster does as a father and maybe even as a lord but historically it's interesting he's not like a bad lord he's just not like a standout lord right his history in the riverlands he fought in the war of the nine penny kings before he was lord when his brother was still the lord and then his brother died leaving him a lord uh kind of similar to ned in that aspect right and the biggest events for him besides that what was when the veil the north and the riverlands joined

together with the stormlands to fight tyranny from the throne so he's not i don't know that i'd say lackluster it's just hoster never really had a chance to flex his hand at improving the riverlands and it does seem he's fallen back on depression and ascetia right after Manissa died and after he you know sold off his daughters and I don't know I just like it's hard

right it's hard to balance but here we are with kind of an improved version right with Robb auburn haired blue eyed he's transformed into a man with a jawbone suddenly jutting out and fucking chin hair and shit. And he's going to join the Riverlands in the north once more. Having him come here in the face of Edmure's loss, even,

that was very great timing. The Riverlands needed something to cheer. Hoster's dying. They have this big hole of power that's just like, who's going to lead us? The Riverlands have had a rough go of it, as you said. They need a sign of hope. Not only, you know, as Endur been suffering losses, but throughout this whole book, right, they've been attacked often. The Lannisters burning their lands, etc. So we can see why they're quite upset towards the end of this chapter and

hoster what he's going through is something that we've seen in a lot of the other rulers of the seven kingdoms right while he's much older and i mean he's lived through a fucking lot he it's reminiscent of what we saw going through ned's story, right? But Ned tried to find a way to march forward and was also younger and, you know, goes to King's Landing and he's like, all right, I'm going to do my fucking best. It's kind of what happens with Doran, right? Doran, as we saw, also living with that depression. and as you said we have rob looking so much like hoster but i mean he's he's lost his father but he's still got a lot of this vigor right i mean his war is just starting and i think that's part of the thing right rob is rob dies before that can settle in for him. Yeah. Because he's killed at like 16 years old, which is horrible. But, yeah.

Yeah. Well, now that we have that happy thought, we have more happy thoughts where Catelyn tells Hoster that his brother has come, and then Hoster wistfully hopes that is Liza here too too he's hoping that his whole family right is here to see him go because he knows it's his last few moments but of course caitlin has to disappoint him and when she tells him lies is not not here she watches the light

disappear from his eyes and it's painful i mean we know that hoster was quite harmful to liza right like we we see caitlin touch a bit on the guilt that she feels of what has happened with this war a bit ago and we see how i feel like guilt becomes this big tully family thing this this burden that's passed down amongst them hoster's carrying the guilt of what he did to his youngest daughter and he knows that he hurt her. And in his final hours, he's hoping for absolution. He's hoping to reunite,

to heal and to apologize. He wants forgiveness because he knows, and he's hoping that he can give, that he might be able to receive that gift and maybe hopefully give his daughter in a way that gift, right. Of saying, I was wrong. What I saying, I was wrong.

What I did to you was wrong. And I kind of wonder if he has never apologized and now he will never get the chance. And so that cycle of pain and hurt just sort of continues in this family. There's a couple interesting parallels that you reminded me of here too, of, you know, he's being dosed with the same drugs

that Sweet Robin will be dosed with right uh in the erie his grandson yeah and it's weird that absence of that relation but yet it's happening just across the uh the old river bend and also that the one thing he and cadeline both can't abhor is a bastard in the family interesting Interesting. That is interesting. I'm not saying, like, obviously this is a huge, like when it comes out,

it's such a huge revelation for Kat, but it is interesting that George connected those plots together in that way. That Hoster went to such great lengths to make sure there was no bastard stain on his perfect freckled, shy daughter. And yeah, dot, dot yeah dot dot dot yeah i mean catelyn never right really connects to that she's like tansy what does that yeah mean maybe she's subconsciously male well she's like did my father have his own bastard right and i think that's

something that like obviously that that's an interesting anxiety on her part considering that circe sort of has that revulsion finding out finding shay yeah in tywin's bed and so yeah no one likes to think of their parents fucking um i'm there i don't want to ever talk about it oh god yeah um oh yeah that's a i'm so sorry that that's i think the universal that's universal i think yep yep thank you for my loss yep i am eighth grade eighth grade age 14 i think i remember i think it was like graduation story maybe well maybe they're just really happy about your graduation oh my god they're like just four more years well speaking of children not in the home catelyn tells hoster that liza feels safer in the eerie with her son and that liza is very frightened and she kisses his brow and then tells him that no the blackfish is still a major gay icon and has not wed a westerosi woman hoster complains that he tried to make him great matches

with bethany redwine and says sweet girl pretty freckles bethany yes poor child still waiting she's like dude bethany's not fucking waiting she's married she's good dude she married well she married lord rowan they got three kids. It's Gucci there, you know? And that's not what he's really guilty about here, though. I think that's obvious. He's just covering up that deeper guilt about the redheaded, freckled girl because his real guilt isn't over Bethany. It's about Liza and Liza leaving with the Blackfish.

That's the real betrayal because he knew. Yo, he knew. Yeah. Yeah. with the blackfish that's the real betrayal because he knew yo he knew yeah yeah and it's all it's all very sad it's only gonna get sadder in that clash of kings except for bethany um i don't know things get tougher i think for the for the red vines but whatever you know well it's all about location and she had to live there, okay? Location, location, location. Catelyn reminds him, speaking of locations,

that Brynden has actually come leagues to see him, let alone has also kept them safe along the way, and Hoster scoffs that he was ever a warrior. That was the one thing he could do, knight of the gate. But being all tired, being angry about his brother, Hoster's like, I'm too tired for that right now,

and asks her to send Brendan when he's awake again. So he's asleep before she even leaves the solar. What a talent. I want that. Dude, and as soon as she gets downstairs, the funniest shit in the world, this is some old man brother shit, because as soon as she

gets downstairs her uncle is like ah saw hoster will he see me and she's like well he's pretty sick he doesn't feel well and he's too sick to fight and brendan's like yeah okay i'm too old to believe that when i get in there hoster will be chiding me about the red wine girl even as we light his funeral pyre damn his bones yeah absolutely absolutely and well at least they got that that's one thing that that'll give them energy for a bit this little feud and catlin having just lived this exact interaction outright smiles and like yeah yeah that's right that's what's happening and i do like this exchange though and this among the many things right it kind of helps the tully family feel very real

and it's something that george is very good at right uh throughout these books as he shows the many different ways that the families in westeros embody tostoy's opening line of Anna Karenina, which is all happy families are alike. Each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. That's beautiful. So Catelyn asks after Robb and they tell her he went with Theon Greyjoy into the Great Hall. She walks in on Theon, regaling the slaughter of the Whispering Wood as Theon, that is a Theon thing to do, bragging quite a bit and she interrupts him and is like where's rob and then it's like ah he went to visit the godswood and she immediately

thinks it's what ned would have done and that rob is his father's son as much as hers and she's thinking this catelyn again thinks oh god's ned and then it cuts off again right and her grief becomes i it to me it almost feels like an echo of the promise me ned within the same book each of these ending with his name but each of them being about grief but now it's about someone else's loss i love that i i really love that that's really smart that it's her own promise me ned yeah but now it's Ned being God and not Lyanna. This is a sad book. Now he's just a ghost like them. God.

Yeah. Wow. Three times in one chapter. Suck it up. Gotta make up for all these years. Oh my God. Catelyn finds Rob and several other lords, Mage Mormont, Galbraith Glover, the Great John, Rickard Karstark, and even Tytos Blackwood, praying at the tree.

Robb has his sword thrust into the earth and his gloved hands around the hilt. These are the ones who keep the old gods, she realized. She asked herself what gods she kept these days and could not find an answer. It would not do to disturb them at their prayers the gods must have their due even cruel gods who would take ned from her and her lord father as well so catalan waited i love that because catalan waited that's such a great line to close that with right because once more she's waiting for her men and so sad because it starts off with these are the ones who keep the old gods and uh obviously she has no faith left in the gods she she thinks about the gods and

says well they must have their due even ones who would take ned from her and ones who would take her lord father and it's interesting because the northerners think the old gods have no power in the south and here she thinks it was just the gods any of them yeah because yeah as you said the old gods perhaps they didn't protect ned maybe took him and the gods that she kept as a girl faith is seven they're taking her father and she's just really going through this trial of faith right now right as she's losing the men she loves and it's interesting because technically a different faith will raise her from the dead and i i wonder if that'll come back right in any way at all right that that idea of like the gods failing her because that's very much it seems in line with some of the internal dilemmas we're going to see in a couple of characters,

such as, right, we're seeing it, we saw it in Davos, we're seeing it, we're probably going to see it in Melisandre and Aaron, so. And funny that you say that, because then I think about Arya, right, who's learning of the many-faced god. Yes, yes. And Catelyn is truly praying to the many-faced god now she in many ways as you just described so that's an interesting thought interesting interesting as we think about the future interesting oh yeah look under your chair it's the future now it's t wow oh my god wow the memories flood back to catalan as she stands in the godswood. Edmure breaking his arm, climbing an elm. Liza kissing Peter, her kissing Peter.

No older than Sansa or Arya, right? Gross. She remembers his minty breath from the mint growing in the godswood. So there you go. That's where Peter gets his mint breath. He started it here at Riverrun, it seems. And their first kisses as young girls with him. She talks about how Liza had a little tongue action and she's like ew you let him put his tongue in your mouth he tried to put it in her mouth and she's like i don't like that and liza's like i liked it

why you gotta throw this in there i was like sad and maybe this is to break it up you know yeah yeah i think this is to break it up it's a cute gross memory and she even she looks out at the trees where her father once taught her how to ride a horse and rob sheaths his sword to meet her and she thinks suddenly has he ever even kissed a girl in Winterfell's godswood? She thinks about young Jane Poole, giving him moist-eyed glances and the serving girls, and they all had crushes on him. He had to have kissed a girl, surely. He's ridden off to battle and war. She wipes her tears away angrily before he can see them,

and he announces to her they must call a council. I actually don't know if Rob has kissed anyone. I mean, it makes sense to assume it, but I don't really know, especially because, yeah, it doesn't really come up in Kat's chapters until obviously later when he's like, Mom, I got married. It doesn't come up in Theon's memories, right, or Jon's when they think about their times with Rob. Like, there's really no talks of like oh yes and we used to talk about girls or whatever and i'm sure theod would have talked about that with rob and john hadn't kissed a girl until egret so i guess it's possible rob hadn't either because i mean he's very different from robert right he's like mom i had sex once and

i married her unlike robert bradley he's like i had sex with everyone and i have kids everywhere i i do think that maybe he didn't because i don't know i don't think rob kissed anyone especially with the way alice carstart talks about him to john right in adobada in dance she kind of says that he was kind of a guarded prude right and i mean that's i i think that's also due to how ned raised them they're just sheltered they're young and sheltered they're they weren't allowed out much where was he gonna go hang with girls he might have ridden off and whatever i mean theon obviously was out there banging and slanging but again i mean also rob probably didn't didn't want to go into that foray knowing what kissing probably produces yeah i mean he might have been taught like kissing is how you get girls pregnant who knows and you will get pregnant and you will die

and yeah so i mean people develop at different rates like it sounds like you know caitlin singh and we've heard other characters say that rob was handsome but he might have just been as you like as you said sheltered he could have been awkward you know like shy he's still young you know and i couldn't get boys to kiss me when i was 14 so i get it i couldn't either hey i got married look at me it can happen for everyone yeah poor young rob he had a little bit of kissing he had a little bit of sexing and then he died like i said you will get pregnant just like just like a praying mantis just like a praying mantis well right, right now, he's a praying wolf. Oh.

Or was a praying wolf in the godswood. And Catelyn interrupts Rob because he had just said, you know, I want to call a council. And she's like, uh, but your grandfather would like to see you. He's very sick. And Rob's like, yeah, I know. Edmure told me, but we have to talk about the issues in the south, mother. Renly Baratheon has claimed his brother's crown. And Catelyn is like, oh, shit, this does kind of change some shit.

We all thought it was going to be Stannis. We did all think it was going to be Stannis, but good news, everyone. Stannis also is going to try to claim the crown. Hooray. You were also correct. For one night only, three kings. A lot. Like, at least five later.

This is one of those accidents that causes Rob and Kat's stories to be a tragedy in the narrative, like, definition of the word, of, like, had they gotten word that Ned had declared for Stannis, right? Or had Stannis declared a little earlier in, like like i don't know

everyone had email and got it right away right or the birds were faster or some shit like had it not been runley first when they were making this decision they might have been to stannis instead of declaring independence and stannis could finally stop being so angsty all the time and be like less rude about ned when they go talk to him but anyways timing was not their friend but well and that's interesting that you say that because like that would have cleared up a lot of the issues in a dance with dragons right it actually would have it would have cleared up a lot of issues in a dance with dragons it would have cleared up stannis's i think issues maybe with ned not necessarily his daughter yeah um i don't know he might still murder his daughter even then yeah i mean he might not have murdered his daughter but

if had that happened so yeah you know he wouldn't he would have a little more self-confidence. But no timing for him. No good timing there. They did not hitch their train. And why should they, honestly? I mean, Stannis, as we talk about during A Dance with Dragons, what does Stannis have to offer? Anyways, I guess swords. Swords are everything.

Swords are cash here. The War Council convenes in the Great Hall. It's across four long trestle tables that are arranged in a broken square, which feels symbolic. It must be a metaphor. Is this a metaphor, Eliana? Oh, is it a metaphor? I don't know. I think so. I mean, it's a broken square.

It's these tables that they don't quite fit. There are all these people and all these voices, like in the tyrian chapter uh couple before when you have the clansmen who are also just like this right clansmen actually also give voices to all of their people and uh tywin and tyrian sit and listen and here it is the same thing it feels symbolic that it's a broken square of different people at each table different types of people but somehow they fit together in this council and it makes me wonder if the last council maybe they'll be sitting in a completed square maybe it won't be broken oh you know in the last book the ninth book or will it also be broken because of Northern Independence?

Maybe Sansa will sit in a chair that's just slightly away from the square. It is a triangle. It's a metaphor. It's a dodecagon. Oh my god. Well, Emhyr attends in Hoster's place, the Black Pfish at his side, the River Lords lining the side tables, including the Fugitive Lords that fought against Lannisters. Karl Vance, a lord now that his father died beneath the Golden Tooth, sits with Mark Piper, and the Dairy Boy no older than Bran. Not the Dairy Girls, though, spelled differently as well.

Jonas Bracken comes from Stonehenge, which is really confusing when you say it aloud. Sitting as far opposite Lord Blackwood as he can. Typical. And the Northern Lords sit opposite them, Catelyn and Robb facing Edmure and the Blackfish. And the Northmen at the moment, here, are fewer than the River Lords and the Greyjohn is at Robb's left and then Theon then Galbraith Glover and Mage Mormont sit to Catelyn's right. I love this description

of where the Lords are. Karl, Vance, and Mark Piper of course are BFFs with Edmure right? We learn those are his buddies. We learn that in the Ned chapter where he's kind of ruling the throne for the day. He thinks about how well those are edmure's friends so that's his childhood buddies he grew up with right there uh if rob had friends that's who he would have but he doesn't um and the dairy boy just stands out so much in this uh no older than bran right

very young and it's so weird having him be able to pipe up and be like yeah i don't want to be ruled by those assholes i think it gives you a great hint at what we might see someday in the end and it's exciting to see mage mormont significant in this council speaking her mind so freely as well as catalan right her voice even though she's just a lady widow, you know, she's still very welcomed by these people and respected. And it does remind me of what we're going to see. Hope, I'm guessing someday when we get the Winds of Winter,

we'll see how Jon Conn reacts around Arianne, standing on her own two feet in war councils with her own swords, as well as Nymeria and Cersei's councils in King's Landing as well. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. It's funny to think about i'm like john conn's gonna be so mad god yeah he's gonna be so mad that this is happening and i think because he's racist and sexist like it's like a double banger it's it's a goddamn banger he is though and yeah especially and then he's gonna be like that and projecting elllyon to her. A lot's going to be going on there.

It's a whole mess. Whereas Aegon's going to be like, oh, my God, yes, step on me. I think he's into that. I'm telling you, the Adam Feldman comment about Arianne seducing Aegon is the best comment on all of Reddit. What is it about? It was a comment discussing how Arianne and Aegon will probably consummate their marriage. And just like the funniest, I have to find it for you, I will find it,

but it's the funniest shit in the world where he basically just states like how Arianne will mastermind seduce Aegon because Aegon is just like a 14-year-old boy who knows nothing yeah I mean I what he's like 18 right but still it's not I mean it's not

at that age right it's not hard yeah boys are interesting they're an interesting specimen as Arianne will probably show us I mean Aegon Aegon as we've seen right and that's the thing like we've seen that he's a little, he's easy to manipulate, right? A little hot-headed.

Yeah, Tyrion does it quite easily, but anyways. We digress. Lord Rickard Karstark is the last notable Northman here. He's looking gaunt, hollow-eyed, and lost in grief, which is in the air this chapter, right?

There is no word right now of his third last eldest son who led the spears against Tywin on the Green Fork. And the arguing goes on late into the night, each lord having their right to speak and none holding back. There's shouting, cursing, reasoning, jesting, bargaining. Is this a Girls Gone Canon episode? Also the slamming of tinkers and threats. This could be. This could be us. It all punctuates the night and Catelyn listens to it all. Oh, listening.

This is us. I love that line so much. Catelyn listens to it all. This is a great council of the north and riverlands. This will go down in the annals as a great council. I mean, think of all the councils we've had for secession alone, right? 101 AC settling Jaehaerys' secession.

130 called by Alicent and leaving out Rhaenyra and company and like half the nation in that delegate kind of matter. And 136 was Aegon III's ascendancy. 233 was Aegon the Unlikely, Aegon V. And all these will have so many parallels and so many important kind of thoughts and themes

that will run alongside the endgame of thrones moving forward. This council here in particular being called at Riverrun feels so big and foundational for the story moving forward it does make me wonder how this could actually possibly have mirrored the council when robert would have been chosen as representative as their king obviously we're missing the voice of the eerie and it's not something that we have historically written

down or canonically written down but there had to have been a day where these lords got together and decided to tout robert up and river run as we're seeing is unfortunately location location location uh put in the middle of everything so it's an obvious choice for a council to be called and i do think that missing the Eyrie's voice here in today's council in Catalan 11 is a huge plot point that, I mean, should be filled by Sansa in the Endgame of Thrones, right? Like, this sticks out like a sore thumb that Lysa's reluctance to lead the Eyrie into war must be reconciled with sometime in the story. It all just feels so fitting. It's a king to lead a rebellion, this time for independence, also named for Robert. The Warden of the North was just murdered

on a stage for the world to see, and now Rob has to free his sister from King's Landing, who's captured by the current evil king. Not to mention, the Lannisters are straight up openly aggravating and terrorizing the countryside with their watchdog Gregor clegane once more out to menace society there's just so much here that is informing a lot of the rest of the books

as far as uh gathering parties together to you know unite against oppression whether it be from ice zombies in the north or cersei or whoever uh similar tone similar feeling and themes from so many different people with different lifestyles coming to fight and argue and have out their own peace and something that strikes me the most is just like Robert we don't get the reaction from Rob right on being made king whether he wanted it or not which is I mean it doesn't matter it doesn't matter if he did at this point. This was, there was no saying no to this. This was a, you are now the king.

I mean, the closest to a reaction being when the cars start tension is at its peak and clash and he breaks these, like, I tried to do everything right. I promised I was going to do everything right. And I think this holds a lot of connotations for John's plot, right? We're going to see a lot of probably what Rob might have been thinking, but actually through Jon. something maybe we can like discuss a bit more later but as you said there's no to crown him is to kill him that's what we end up seeing but also you can't say no right you say no it looks weak especially after like a fucking all those speeches you can't turn it down like that and and you just have to move forward and there's it almost feels to them

right no chance and no choice but they think they have a chance for for a good while we all thought that they had a chance i mean he even says to cattle in the last few chapters as he leads this stuff uh when we first get there right when we first get to the wood and he's making war plans with uncle brindan catalan says like rob why are you doing this you have men that can do this you do not need to be leading this and he's like mom i have to i have to do this who else is going to do this like it's my job now to do this uh and with ned's death i mean there was never going to be a choice he says that to her very clearly as we're about to see uh it's again painful it's sad because he's finishing what he has to i mean they killed his dad it's a similar and as you said yes they murdered his father it's a similar predicament

not only that ned was put in but also caitlin right when her mother died early that rob's being thrust into this so early? Well, some of the people who will be a subject are not here at the moment, so it'll be interesting when they hear the news. For example, Roose had reformed the remnants of the host at the mouth of the causeway, and Ser Helman Tollert and Walder Frey

hold the twins still. Tywin's army was making for Harrenhal across the Trident, and two other kings now ruled in the realm. Exciting! Two kings and no agreement! Some lords' bannermen want to wage war on Harrenhal, meet Tywin in the field, while some, like Mark Piper, want to strike at Casterly Rock. Jason Malister points out that Riverrun sits on the Lannister supply lines, denying Tywin freshly reasoned provisions. Lord Blackwood says that they should finish the work

they began in the Whispering Wood and write their own fanfiction marching to Harrenhal and bringing Roose Bolton's army with them. Everything Blackwood urged, Bracken of course opposed. And Bracken in turn suggests they join King Brenly's cause. Interesting.

Bracken is such a wimp. He kills me. He kills me. He's such a turd in Jaime's chapter with him. That's true. I do find him amusing. Yeah. Rob, so like his father, had known to listen, but now

he speaks for the first time. He declares Renly is not the king and everyone's like, whoa, you can't be pro Joffrey, Rob. Like he killed your dad. Rob's like, that makes Joffrey evil. It doesn't make Renly king. Joffrey is Robert's eldest true born son. So the throne is his by rights.

Were he to die, his brother Tommen would still be next. Mark Piper insists Tommen is no less than Lannister. And Rob is troubled, but allows it and says, if neither is king, how could Renly be king? He can't be king before Stannis. And so there's this interesting line right after that of where as they're explaining it and Robb's explaining it, he's like, he's Robert's younger brother,

Bran can't be Lord of Winterfell before me, and Renly can't be lord of winterfell before me and renly can't be king before lord stannis which is interesting assuming that the show's ending was george's which we've discussed before because it probably is because it was so out of left field that they had to shoehorn it in because they foolishly didn't keep brandon for a whole season and also didn't invest into his storyline that's all but whatever whatever um you know the bad show anyways interesting that they would say this about branding lords in the same like sentence about being kings oh yeah that is a

little a little spice of foreshadowing there well wait eliana are you implying the last 10 minutes of game of thrones was written by dnd just kidding that's a great interesting bit of foreshadowing we are gonna have to pay attention to some more of that through clash because i know there's a good amount on my reread so far that i'm like ah ah ah ran brand king mage morma agrees Stannis has the better claim, but Mark Piper says Renly is crowned in Highgarden and Storm's End support his claim. He thinks Dorne will follow suit.

If Winterfell and Riverrun support his claim and if they can passionately convince House Arryn, then that would be six out of seven kingdoms. It's interesting that they think that Dorne will follow suit because as we know, Dorne stays out of it same as the veil does um yeah to hook up with lannisters ish yeah fast i don't know why they i mean i guess i understand right because they think that they're gonna oppose the lannisters but interesting gotta break an egg to make an amulet

well yeah earlier it's kind of funny that they're like tommen is no less elitist or i'm like lol because yeah they don't know yet and uh oh how true it is he is no less elitist than joffrey and the entire exchange though and rob's outlook which speaking to earlier is quite legalistic of his like well i, that makes Joffrey evil, but, like, that doesn't make Renly king, all right? And it shows how, like, Ned he is, right? Because throughout all of this, as they're all deciding, all right, so what do we do now that Renly's put forth a claim? A lot of these are very much similar arguments that Ned actually made for why he couldn't back

joffrey when he knew that joffrey was illegitimate right even when peter was like you know it doesn't matter just just back them just back the land mr children he's like i can't they're bastards yeah it's uh i appreciate too that he's like no because we have to be able to do it like you said the legalistic way we have to literally do it no, because we have to be able to do it, like you said, the legalistic way. We have to literally do it the clean way. We have to do it the right way. Because what they are suggesting, I mean, going back to that idea of the council that chose King Robert, they are suggesting treason. You know, I'm sure all bets are off because the social contract was broken by part of the crown.

I'm sure all bets are off because the social contract was broken by part of the crown. But as we're about to hear from the Great John, all bets are also off. Like, they broke their side. We're breaking our side. However, the crown still does have power at this point in the story, as we'll learn. Yeah, and I mean... Not for long. I mean, there's a reason why they keep throwing it in Sansa's face later. They're like, oh, you got traitor's blood.

Yeah, this is definitely interpreted as treason by a lot of people. Whatever. Yeah, I mean, like you said, you can't just send Google Hangouts to everyone. Like, hey, just so you know, Lannister's killed Ned. Peace. You know, like, they can spin it any way they want. Yeah. And it's actually harder with the internet to... It turns out the internet doesn't make people more likely to believe true information

anyways um yeah yeah there's a there's a lot there's a lot going on here and yeah everyone i mean honestly again everyone's committing treason all the cool kids are doing it and also also not the cool kids are saying this is doing it and also also not the cool kids of stainless is doing it anyways well i do think mark piper here he has somewhat of an okay idea right that like hey we'd have six out of seven kingdoms we could win and then go from there nobody says it he doesn't say we could call a great council he actually says we'd have their heads on pikes within the year all of them the queen the boy king the imp the kingslayer sir kevin within a year which that's that's a lot that that's a that's pretty yeah but we all know that they wouldn't get everything they wanted out of that right they wouldn't have independence forever

they'd have someone that's a puppet king next in line in some illegitimate way it's just kind of fucked up that that's what he wants is what it's a compromise i mean like to want the queen and the kids and all the other ladies oh yeah murdered yeah all of them and like that's not what ned stood for ned would have been like ned died so that those kids could live that's vengeance That's not justice. Exactly. I'm like, Mark Piper, pipe down. Unfortunately, this is one of the themes that does carry on in the books, right? That idea of just let's just hang them all. That carries on specifically from Catelyn. So she took notes in the back of her subconscious, as we know.

Yeah, she's good at that there is there is something noticeable about rob being troubled this chapter right like the weight of the world is totally on his shoulders on this soon-to-be boy king's shoulders himself and it reminds me of john the chapter right before this john 9 while they worry about these threats to their person in the south john is being told none of this fucking matters by a very different mormont right by lord commander mormont the lc j or he says to john god save us boy you're not blind and you're not stupid when dead men come hunting in the night do you think it matters who sits the iron throne so of course they don't know this i'm not i'm not gonna

nag cadeline and rob because this is pretty glaring right now the riverlands is under attack and no one gives a shit right on each side it's under attack and no one gives a shit except the north and i do think this is important though because that is one of their faults and one of their blind spots and for john who is going to likely end up a king in the north in this story, he will give a fuck about dead men hunting in the night, right? Like, he'll give a crap about the others, but he's going to face some severe consequences, probably for not taking care of the more diplomatic side

of who takes the throne in the end. I'm sure there will be some other factors that pop up, but it's the exact opposite for him, right? Rob's diplomacy and, well, and the mistake of, you know, marrying to erase your family's sad sins that, you know, fuck with everyone's sadness. Marrying for that and doing the right thing in his mind compared to Jon doing the right thing. I mean, both of them will kill them in different ways.

And of course, there's this idea of his dead dad, of dead Ned and of Rob. And he thinks he wondered what Lord Eddard might have done if the deserter had been his brother Benjen instead of that ragged stranger. Would it have been any different? must surely surely and rob would welcome him for a certainty he had to or else it didn't bear thinking about that line now gives me chills especially in the face of the end game of thrones right that and bran would welcome him for a certainty he had to or else uh i'm sure that he

will be asking for some sort of uh you know freedom slash guilty non-guilty plea from brand to go back to north of the wall but that really rings here that he just thought you know like rob would have to welcome me right right well no rob legalistically just told us that he probably wouldn't couldn't they have to do things the right way yeah and we discussed this a bit in john's chapters and i mean ned it is complex right they think ned would do the right thing but the right thing isn't always the legal thing right hiding his sister's heir hiding his sister's son who might be heir to the seven kingdoms not necessarily legally the right thing giving the lannister kids a chance to escape not necessarily what some would call the right thing confessing to treason when you weren't really a traitor not really the right thing and ned was very merciful

right that's what his desire to help the lannister kids escape was and i think you know if rob seems to be the justice side of ned i think we could see Bran being very much a lot of that mercy but not like necessarily like the kill people mercy and yeah we could see him potentially like pardoning Jon I think part of it comes with that empathy knowing what someone went through

and yeah look under your chair oh my god it's a pardon I just think that especially in the face of these lords Yeah. Look under your chair. Oh my god, it's a pardon. Yeah. I just think that especially in the face of these lords, Rob couldn't,

if he had come south and he had kept going here, Rob couldn't pardon him, but half the kingship lasted. Maybe, maybe not, right? Because Rickard Karstark thinks that they should be treated a little differently right after he commits that great sin so everyone thinks that there should be exceptions to them it seems yeah not everyone but many of them do the discussion continues their own discussion of why would they throw it all away on st standis i don't know i mean sir mark

i don't know what does he have asked sir mark i'm throwing my hands up i'm waiting for a response i'm waiting for an answer no there is an answer right rob there is an answer rob sounds eerily like ned and he says the right right. Never heard that one before. Edmure asks if he means for them to all declare for Stannis, all the North and Rivermen. And he responds, he prayed for the right answer, but it did not come. The Lannisters murdered Ned for a traitor,

which was a lie. But if they fight Joffrey, they're traitors too. Stavron Frey, unwanted, pipes up very weasely. And he's like, my father would urge caution and wait for these two kings to play their game of thrones and bend the knee to the victor. And then Stavron is really scandalous about it. And he's like, you know, Tywin would want a truce and his son returned safely. Look, noble lords, let me go to Harrenhal and arrange terms and ransoms.

And immediately no one is having this. Great Jon is like, you're a fucking craven. Mage is like, fuck off. That'll make us look weak if we beg for a truce. And Rickard's like, we can't give up the Kingslayer. And Catelyn tries to reason though. She actually says, you know what? Let's all take a moment.

Why not try to make a peace and they all look at her uh and she of course feels only rob's eyes in this moment and rob looks at her and grimly says they murdered my lord father your husband and he lays his long sword on the table he says this is the only peace i have for lannisters yeah and to be honest both of them have good points right like yes i really do think that both of these both of these sides make sense caitlin's side of course makes sense right as you were saying earlier peace would save so many lives not just theirs not just the nobles but the people within the realm and they're the ones who end up really suffering the most in this conflict as we see

in other chapters and especially in clash and in feast right and rob's head hasn't been asked for yet though but but he has a point right that those like the cycle of pain hasn't reared its head yet but it kind of is starting to as rob is put in the same position that his father was in the months before they were born especially as he says they murdered my lord father it is um coming back to what we were talking about at the top of the episode it's a violation of that social contract where is the proof that there will be justice under this regime and that they're yeah I mean, they will be protected and I'm sure this is something we

talked about in our Northern Independence episode. So I see the points on both sides. I do too. And had Joffrey not given the command to have Ned's head chopped off, held up in front of a crowd, you know, after making him proclaim himself a traitor.

Fucker. Had all that not happened, had it just been like an oopsie murder like it was in the had it happened in the streets with jamie right like had that happened that would have been different yeah like that would have been like maybe we can make a peace uh but i mean that is that's a bone-chilling line this is the only piece i have for lannisters it's past that and i do think that's pretty apparent and well said you know like it's well brought up here that even how he looks at her it's grim it's like i'm sorry mom yeah i can't he can't say no in front of these men and she knows that uh she knows that they won't listen to this and i think that's what's difficult right because as it's not even vengeance what rob's proposing here isn't vengeance it's that they are unsafe

knowing that ned was betrayed like that i mean joffrey is an unstable king as we know like tyrian calls it out he's like you got a young King Aerys here alright everyone and I mean as you said had Ned been able to be sent to the wall I think peace was possible and that's why Tywin and Cersei were like

what the fuck have you done and I'm but also as you said like he can't just say no to going to war in front of his men and i think that's that i think is a wrong motivation i understand all the other things there are many reasons everyone wants to go to war and many of them are wrong right many of them are wrong especially when compared to caitlin's idea for peace because some of how we see it coming up they want to go to war for vengeance as people

will say but also pride and pride is a stupid reason pride leads to a lot of people getting into these fights it's a reason as we see with the people that end up at peace negotiation tables as we discussed previously in other episodes um it doesn't always go as well as it can so anyway they're more invested in protecting their masculinity and pride versus the realities of people's lives anyways and you know how some of these northern men are

they're just very emotional Eliana I agree I agree though especially with like what happens in this chapter and like in this moment where the great john bellows his approval that's emotional and then they lead several other men and pounding their fists on the table and drawing swords yeah i mean that's emotional oh let's bring out our weapons okay i just don't understand he's gonna get like a whole chant going,

a whole everyone in the crowd banging on the table. And then he's like, oh, you're acting emotional, Catalin. Absolutely. Kills me. But Catalin waits for this childish, you know, like we want our food antics to stop. Kills them. She waits for them to chill.

Later. Later. Yeah, that does actually kill them later. She waits for them to chill yeah it's later later yeah that does actually kill them later she waits for them to quiet down and then catelyn straight up delivers the prototype of alaria's speech in dorne that we hear later in the watcher right like this is the original begging for peace speech and it's very sad and cately says, Lord Eddard was your liege, but I shared his bed and bore his children. Do you think I love him any less than you? Her voice almost broke with her grief,

but Catelyn took a long breath and steadied herself. Rob, if that sword could bring him back, I should never let you sheath it until Ned stood at my side once more. But he's gone, and a hundred whispering woods will not change that. Ned is gone, and Daeron Hornwood, and Lord Karstark's valiant sons, and many other good men besides. And none of them will return to us.

Must we have more deaths still? I love that beat for beat, George comes back to this speech with what he has in Ellaria's speech. She says, Oberyn wanted vengeance for Elia. Now the three of you want vengeance for him. She goes on talking about this cycle, like you said, the cycle of pain happening. Is that how it goes? Round and round forever? I ask again, where does it end? I saw your father die. Here's his killer. Can I take a skull to bed with me to give me comfort in the night? Will it make me laugh, write me songs, care for me when I'm old and sick?

This is a big moment for Catelyn's chapter that she is able to take a moment, step back and say, is this what we truly want? And it is in the end because it means giving a better future to those that do survive. Yeah. She was the blueprint. Yeah, she was. Anyway. But yeah, I mean, like, her, unlike Ellaria, Catelyn's daughters are at risk.

She doesn't know what's happened to her youngest at the moment, her youngest daughter. And she's thinking about the safety, safety yeah of her two sons at home and it's like what about yeah my girls and it comes back to the change that we see in catlin she goes from the blueprint then we get like a next draft of catlin later on after she dies and you were talking about the broken man manifesting in caitlin's chapters already even early on we see those themes coming through and a lot of the ways that the broken man ends up coming up in discussions is within the context right of how we see it with men and ptsd uh because of course of

how it's phrased and contextualized within the feast for crows and septon marabold's speech it is within that within war but lady stoneheart is that shadow looming over the entirety of the fourth book and lady stoneheart is absolutely like the broken woman perhaps she could have settled for peace with just ned's death right and but in less than two years she loses her husband her father she's unsure if she'll ever reunite with her daughters one of which she's like maybe she's dead she doesn't know what's happening to her youngest daughter and thinks that her youngest sons are dead one of which was her favorite child and then she watches her eldest son killed in front of her like what what sort of peace is left for her right

but what peace is there to hope for if she had lived and i mean i get it this is where rickard karsark is at but like and that's where she ends up and it's interesting to to see that journey in that arc for catelyn that she starts here it was definitely like a last call for peace for her you know like this is okay if peace isn't gonna be an option now i know now i know how to inform myself moving forward it's war y'all oh shit she tries again this isn't like her only try right technically uh freeing jamie lannister while not necessarily for peace was you know a way to try and get something close to it and get her children back and it it is interesting that like, even at her most skeptical of people, including the Kingslayer, she still believes that the social contract on a whole has failed, right? The societal contracts

have failed on a whole, but people inherently at their core are good like jamie she thinks has something in him that he will in her freeing him he will take that and he will leverage it for her in this oath as a knight on his honor to her she inherently still believes that good things in the system can be good yeah i mean she's also betting as she says to him she's like i'm really betting on tyrian but yeah maybe there's something in you too all right all right right yeah she's like that could be something in me one day anyways um i'm sorry ned just died i'm i can't talk about this we can't talk about maybe it's grief sex the great john says catelyn is a woman she does not understand these things and carstark agrees she's of the gentle sex she doesn't understand a man's need for vengeance she

responds give me cersei lannister and you would see how gentle a woman can be now we're hitting all the family this is getting out of hand catelyn you're the gentle sex men has need for vengeance i'm just saying you should watch your fucking mouths because a feast for crows is just like a few books down the line you guys yeah catelyn accomplishes what you know i'm sure that they wish that they could do and i mean not catelyn sorry yeah. Lady Stoneheart, girl boss. They don't have to watch their fucking mouths. They're going to be dead. But again, okay.

Lady Stoneheart will just get vengeance for all of them. She's going to just carry all of them and get vengeance for everyone in this goddamn room. It's kind of like the moment where you tell your significant other, like, I bet you won't about something. And they're like, oh, oh, you bet I won't, huh? I bet you bet I won't. Except Catlin're like oh oh you bet i won't huh i bet you bet i won't except cadeline does it like from the undead yeah oh oh you bet i won't be vengeful and she doesn't say anything she just looks and she don't speak she just remembers you know she don't speak but oh she remembers well cadeline does speak up here and elaborate she might not understand tactics or strategy you know

she's but a young woman who knows little of the ways of war but she understands futility they fought to defend themselves and for ned's freedom they accomplished what they could she'll mourn ned but she has to think of the living her daughters stuck in the lion's den and their lannister hostages in return if she can get the girls back she would thank the gods and consider herself happy and then she says the saddest thing i want you safe rob ruling at winterfell from your father's seat i want you to live your life to kiss a girl and wed a woman and father a son. I want to write an end to this. I want to go home, my lords, and weep for my husband.

Aww. Yeah, there's that reprise of what we talked about last chapter of that wanting, and it's going to come up again a lot in Catelyn's chapters. But most of all, that I want to write an end to this.

And I'm like, ah yes, first book, George. So optimistic. In just two books. Write an end to this. Anyways, by the time that Catelyn finishes speaking, the hall is very quiet. And finally, Brynden speaks and says that peace is sweet, but not on these terms. So the full quote of what Brendan says, he says, it is no good hammering your sword into a plowshare

if you must forge it again on the morrow. Simple enough analogy, but it's actually really similar to Isaiah 2.4 in the book of Isaiah. He shall judge among the nations and shall rebuke many people and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks nation shall not lift up sword against nation neither shall they learn war anymore so the book of isaiah is known for its more utopic view of the world right with no oppression or war. And it brings up two specific problems here,

which are actually often argued against Norse and independence, how to convert capital goods into war material, and how to then use political constituencies and moral ethical willpower to get people to work toward a peace. So the he in Isaiah's passage, of course, refers to God. But in Brynden's words, there's no point putting down your sword when the enemy will be at your gate the next day oppressing you once more. For the Riverlands, for the North, for the Blackfish, the he here is not God. The he is Rob as a symbol of hope at living a great life without tyrannical oppression from the throne. So for them, Rob's kind of their god you know in comparison here and i think that makes sense within some of the metaphors that

george has been working with in this book right of especially that we see come out more explicitly in denarius's chapters especially in storm of when you have this much power when you're a king or a queen to what extent are you a god but obviously not all the time right but I mean it's something that happens within Euron's and also the loneliness that comes with godhood and kingship so makes

makes sense well Karstark asks then if we are going to just settle for peace. Then what did his sons, Eddard and Torrin, die for? If he's to return with nothing but their bones? And Lord Bracken's like, what about my fields and my small folk that are smoking ruin? And Lord Blackwood even agrees, which is like, wow. Ruin and Lord Blackwood even agrees, which is like, wow.

But it does remind them that if the stag prevails against the lion, Renly may then bring justice down upon them as well. This desire to go to war and not settle for peace, especially within the context of Karstorik's words and how they're both saying we have to do something, coming back to that pride and using the deaths of their family to justify it. And that on the battlefield right not not something that was like an unjust trial or something it reminds me again of that line that we keep bringing up because uh our good friend poor Quentin you're especially good friend poor Quentin uh keeps bringing up of men's lives have meaning not their deaths and their deaths don't have to mean this right it doesn't have an inherent meaning here they didn't necessarily die for something i know we argue the opposite in a lot of other episodes so i am large i contain multitudes and i'm different all the time different rivers different me hello but i mean i do have to say though that quote does work

perfectly here because yeah i mean the biggest the biggest part of this and the biggest argument of this is that if they lead right now against the Lannisters, will they stop generations, future generations of North children and River children alike from living under an oppressed rule would would fighting even losing their lives in this fight right now even just to push that slider just a little bit farther to freedom would that be worth it and the answer that they come upon that they learn and they unfortunately their demise comes to is that yes yes it is worth it uh and it's obviously a job that has to be finished still in our story but uh they fight for that because of that uh and i think sansa's plot in a clash of kings you know is really visceral when you think about that you think about the scars she has from being just beat in the throne room yeah it's it's pretty visceral to think about those scars and like think that you know while bran and rickon were running afraid for their lives also and bran going north

of the wall into you know ice zombie territory and sansa getting beat by the throne that they are still surviving and they're still carrying on that flame and hopefully that spark of Northern independence. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They're going to free a lot of beautiful kids, Aliana. I mean, that's the hope. I don't know. That's the hope every time, right?

Yes. And before we get to the treat that you all are in for, you're in for a fun treat, Mark Piper, and he finally gets with with it he straightens up and flies right mark piper declares whatever we decide i'll never call a lannister my king and the little dairy boy even chimes in agreeing uh which felt that felt significant right that felt kind of significant that these two chimed in like, whatever, as long as there's no Lannister King we're in. Yeah. And so, you know, that brings us to the thing. They're like, all right, well, it's not going to be a Lannister. And if you won't let us pledge to Renly, then this is a choice that we've made. And they kind of like talk themselves into it. They're

like, well, clearly, neither of these choices are the right one. So they make their own path. Yes. And here is the path that they create. Again, the shouting began. Catelyn sat despairing. She'd come so close,

she thought. They'd almost listened. Almost. But the moment was gone. There would be no peace, no chance to heal, no safety. She looked at her son, watched him as he listened to the Lord's debate, frowning, troubled, yet wedded to his war. He had pledged himself to marry a daughter of Walder Frey,

but she saw his true bride plain before her now, the sword he had laid on the table. Catelyn was thinking of her girls, wondering if she would ever see them again, when the Greyjohn lurched to his feet. My lords, he shouted, his voice booming off the rafters. Here is what I say to these two kings. Pah!

He spat. Renly Baratheon is nothing to me, nor Stannis neither. Why should they rule over me and mine from some flowery seat in Highgarden or Dorne? rule over me and mine from some flowery seat in Highgarden or Dorne? What do they know of the wall or the wolf's wood or the barrows of the first men? If their gods are wrong, the others take the Lannisters too. I've had a belly full of them. He reached back over his shoulder and drew his immense two-handed greatsword. Why shouldn't we rule ourselves again? It was the dragons we married, and the dragons are all dead.

He pointed at Rob with the blade. There sits the only king I mean to bow my day to, my lords. He thundered. The king in the north! And he knelt and laid his sword at her son's feet. I'll have peace on those terms, Lord Karstark said. They can keep their red castle and their iron chair as well. He eased his longsword from its scabbard.

The king in the north, he said, kneeling beside the great John. Mage Mormont stood. The king of winter, she declared, and laid her spiked mace beside the swords. And the river lords were rising too. Blackwood and Bracken and Malister, houses who had never been ruled from Winterfell. Yet Catelyn watched them rise and draw their blades, bending their knees and shouting the old words that had not been heard in the realm for more than 300 years, since Aegon the Dragon had come to make the Seven Kingdoms one. Yet now were heard again,

ringing from the timbers of her father's hall. The king of the north! The king of the north! The king of the north! The king of the north! The king of the north! We did it! Our first king of the north! We did it! Amazing! And a huge thank you to our friends and patrons who contributed to this episode including jimmy lo pete yogi rohan amy warren and alex uh couldn't have done it without

you all so thank you for submitting this yes it was exciting uh chloe put together this big project and this was great and oh my god some of these voices were hysterical but also it just wouldn't feel right having a king in the north episode with no king in the north chanting at the end so it felt hollow it felt empty and i wanted to feel a part of the hall with you all like we were there in the great hall witnessing holy shit this council this amazing great council um we're witnessing history with catalan here absolutely this is again that rubicon moment i mean that did end up becoming history there's no going back now there's no going back now this is it you all just signed your deaths they kind kind of did. That is what happened. Yeah.

Yeah. But it makes for a great story, so... And who has a better story than... Oh my god. Then, Robb's sword, I don't know, I love, I love that line that

he had pledged himself to marry a daughter of Walder Fre fray but she saw his true bride playing before her now the sword he had laid on the table because of course of the family words of the house holy words rob has come to embody duty the most and i i also love that line like it stood out because that sort of idea comes up a lot in the other and some of the other characters right like that for ariohota his wife he he weds his axe yes john's asha and and her axe as well and then john's marriage to his duty and also that's what they say right if i'm not mistaken the insolitor described a little like that too yes so their duty to their sword their spears yeah yeah yeah it definitely stood

out this time on reread and of course earlier on when he look this is going to get a little phallic but when he had his sword thrust into the ground obviously that's a very ned pose right we've seen ned do that in the godswood already in the story but something about that whole innocence innocence lost kind of thing going on and how wow did rob never even kiss or bang or do anything fun in his life didn't he even smoke one joint no he didn't that feels it feels prominent though here that that like just the imagery of the sword thrust into the ground. It feels very prominent.

They give brand drugs before they give any to Rob. Damn, that's true. If you think about it. Wow. How does it feel knowing your little brother did more acid than you growing up, Rob? That is actually literally what happens. That's literally what happens. Well, yeah, it feels backwards, right?

You're not supposed to be king before you've ever kissed someone not at all and I mean he's a boy king up against another boy king who yeah I mean I prefer this one for sure we like this one unfortunately you know

it really sucks that they both die so there's that no one gets out alive in the game of thrones i do think it's interesting as they're discussing who they would kneel to right who they will accept as a king they won't accept the lannisters because as you've pointed out the lannisters have been completely oppressive like i don't know about renly it seems like he's violating some laws and also right he's another southern southern king they don't know much or anything about him. They knew Robert, but they don't know Renly. And the phrasing of king in the north, right, they're not saying

the northern king or the king of the north, right? You might expect it to say king of the north, because people, they'll say king of the seven kingdoms right the the preposition is of but that it's the king in the north speaks to how much they want someone who understands their values and their culture and that it's the king in the north but interestingly he gets crowned not in the north and he never gets to go back back yeah that also feels so prominent that he came in the north that isn't in the north it's very ironic and and i think it i mean obviously it cuts against him on a political level later on when he loses winterfell they're like oh how are you going to be the king in the north when you don't have a seat in the north but and it does feel especially significant as we go into the winds of winter

with the storm lands being taken right and that that big symbol of legitimacy yes for the lannisters they're now losing their symbol of baratheon legitimacy yeah but here here especially when the fact that the northmen picked this right king, King in the North, and granted, of course, that was the title that they used before, but it just feels very intimate that they would pick that and meaningful for what they want for their land. Yeah, and expanding, you know, the people's power. Yeah. All right, well, now that we've had this really cheerful... all right well now that we've had this really cheerful actually it ends on a it ends on a happy note except for the part where we talk about yeah i mean triumph except yeah except for we think about the future but we can't not talk about it's a reread yes this is a reread

and and it is like i really do appreciate the storytelling bits that george ends both this the penultimate chapter of the entire book and the next chapter similarly right danny's end uh the music filling the night this is the music filling the night for the starts for the magical counterparts with gray wind at rob's side uh just as danny is awakened in the east and she just wakes up and wakes up the dragons. I mean, it's such a magical, both of these moments are just such intense, super suspenseful moments that when you get there, it is definitely a roller coaster. Definitely at the top of the roller coaster and you finally get to have a little relief, right? Like something okay happened in the face of all this grief and all this loss. And it really does show that even in George's storytelling, only death can pay for life.

That's such a great point. And that tying of these really audible moments, tying it together. Yeah. I mean, you can hear, obviously you're hearing the echo from our great John, but you can feel like the great John echoing in the hall with his great blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You can just feel it. You feel like you're there and you well up with emotion and you're like, yeah, the king of the north. Oh, my God, he's going to die. And then it's a lot emotionally.

One day we can get to the emotional scene of and for the first night And for the first time, what is it, in centuries The knight was alive with the song of dragons Sound of dragons? I don't know The music Yeah, with the music of dragons And then we can do the little dragon noises Alright, everyone, get ready to hear us Your best dragon noises

There's gonna be an audition Who will be which dragon? I'll be Viserys. You'll be Dragoon. No. Well, this has been quite a book. Finishing up Catelyn in a Game of Thrones. We're cruising through.

We've got seven chapters in Clash to get through. So buckle up. They get a little crazier. We get some good diplomatic political stuff coming up next book and some failures, some success. I think it's going to be a good book. I think it's going to be our year. The Catelyn Clash chapters, the Clash-a-lin chapters are very meaty. And we've emphasized this over and over, but they hold the book together. Yeah, they are the glue that holds it together and I think we were kind of

blessed with some simple chapters here not simple but you know lighter, agot a game of thrones is definitely nice and easy to get you in before a clash of kings when it all ramps up so we'll get to some juicy meaty bits starting next week and we can't wait

to bring it to you because they're setting up the they're setting up the plot i guess the the plot now that we've wrapped up this book if you have a got any thoughts or opinions that you would like to send to us you can find us on social media at girls gone canon c-a-n-o-n on twitter or you can send us an email at girls gone canon at gmail.com yes get in your mood boards for your oh yeah eliana's happiness we loved the blueberry mood board and we did post it so go check it out always, if you're not subscribed already, make sure you're subscribed so you can tune in whenever we release new episodes and it would make us happy. Give us a smile. You can check us out over on Spotify, on Google Play, on Apple Podcasts, on Audible, on Amazon, on iHeartRadio, on Pandora, on Stitcher, on Acast, you name it, we're there. Check it out.

Keep forgetting to drop iHeartRadio when I do this. I didn't even say Google Plus, okay? Well, another place that you can find us is on Patreon. And again, patrons $5 and up get bonus episodes every month. This month is a His Dark Materials themed episode. We are going to be talking about the short story, The Collectors. Yes, and of course, if you come on over to Discord and you're in the Thunder tier and above, the $10 tier and above, you will have a blast. You'll get to hang out, do some brunch, happy hour, have some drinks, non-alcoholic, alcoholic snacks,

either, whichever you like, and water. I drink water a lot. Yeah, I was on a water one last time so you know it just depends come hang out with us we'll do our next one on june 26th yes as always i have been one of your hosts chloe and i have been another one of your hosts eliana and we have been see you next the north goodbye oh my god what maybe the kings in the north were just the friends we made

along the way the way I mean maybe they were and then they all died what goodbye