Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 130 - ACOK Catelyn II

Episode Date: July 2, 2021

Catelyn is on a business trip with Lord—er, King Renly, who seems to actually be on a retreat rather than waging war. A champion emerges, Brienne the Beauty. Links mentioned: Brienne and Arya: gender outlaws by Lo the Lynx: https://lothelynx.wordpress.com/2020/08/27/brienne-and-arya-gender-outlaws/ Race for the Iron Throne: CBC Analysis for ACOK Catelyn II: https://racefortheironthrone.wordpress.com/2014/12/27/chapter-by-chapter-analysis-catelyn-ii-acok/ --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl] Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello, and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Reads A Song of Ice and Fire, Episode 130, Catelyn Stark, Chapter 2, in a clash of kings. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. Eliana. Eliana. Eliana. Eliana.

That is my name. Eliana. That is my name. Eliana, if this is a clash of kings, why am I only concerned about all the queens in this chapter holding it down? Oh. Ay. Ay. Ay. It's not the War of the Three Queens. Not yet. But there are some queens for sure in this chapter i'm very

excited we're we're gonna get introduced to a couple people in this chapter a couple of new faces that haven't even really been on the podcast some in a long time right uh we we've seen them we've seen them all but we're gonna be reintroduced to Renly Baratheon put that one on the fire uh Brienne and of course Margaery Miss Margaery again so this is a really fun perspective to see them through and of course I'm sure that you noticed with our last episode that these probably will get longer gone gone were the chapters of summer from A Game of Thrones, right? Maybe, maybe. It is still summer.

Quite summery for all of us, literally, in the world. Because of climate change. And winter is fucking coming, is what I'm trying to say. You know, now we're the knights of two-hour episodes. Yeah. But, I mean, I'm going to say, you know? Now we're the knights of two-hour episodes. Yeah. But, I mean, I'm going to be real with all of you. I do hope we keep it snappy this episode. For my sake.

Yes. Speaking of other episodes that we do, and within certain time limits, these don't necessarily have any sort of defined length but we do have our patreon episode this month july when this comes out for the public it will be july and this month's patreon episode will be a song of ice and fire episode yes to be announced but it will be very fun patreon.com slash girls gone canon for our stranger tier our five dollar tier and above our ten dollar tier the thunder tier can get over on our discord and hang out and chit chat and come to brunch slash happy hour play jackbox games and do some giveaways this past month we had a really

fun pride themed pride zentation pride! Sorry, theme. It was awesome. So that's our Thunder tier. There's a ton of really fun perks. There's some physical gifts that go out for the Thunder tier and above. Come on over. Come hang out with us. It'll be a blast. And we are still determining the date for next month's brunch slash happy hour.

And so stay tuned for that. And be sure to check out our his dark materials episodes if you're a fan we are back in action with the amber spyglass just released for the end of the month those will be out fridays for the public so head on over to a streaming platform near you and make sure you're listening to those if you like those dark materials yeah they are oh my god the amber spyglass chapters are lit uh they're gonna be real sad just like the catlin chapters but before we jump into this week's episode and before even our very extensive lightning round this is actually not an email or a tweet of note. It is technically a Discord, I guess, chat of note that we pulled from the POV discussion channel

on our Discord from our friend Maddie. And it says, I think Rob's crown definitely reinforces a lot of the themes about political power in A Clash of Kings. The false past being used to justify modern political power. Robb's crown is modeled after descriptions of the king in the North's crown, but no one has actually ever seen it, especially Lord Hoster Tully Smiths, who aren't even Northmen.

Who knows what Torrin Stark wore when he knelt to Aegon, or Theon Stark when he drove the Andals into the sea, or Brandon the Builder when he raised Winterfell. It's all lost. Robb's crown is a forgery, a shadow of the crown of the kings of winter. We see the fake crown, a shadow of a shadow of a shadow, that Theon wears later in the book as almost a continuation of this. The North, the Rivermen, and the ironborn are all telling themselves convenient lies to justify their new political system the kingdom in the north and on the trident is wholly invented it was invented the moment the gray john yelled there sits the only king

i mean to bend my knee to and by the gray john we mean yogi um and not a second before. Yet here the boy king is. Wearing a crown his ancestors probably wore forged in a land they never ruled. The same with the Ironborn. They never conquered the north or had much of an empire, but yet there Theon sat as Prince of Winterfell telling

his almost brother he can rule part of his fake kingdom while Theon makes his own and of course this is going to reverberate even more when we get into renly whose entire claim is transparently based on fables and lies this is such great further analysis on rob's crown and i loved this take because there is something that doesn't feel holistic, right? About, for example, last chapter, the way Rob treated Cleos Frey, who, I don't know, I know some mediocre people and Cleos is just like an all right guy.

I don't know. He seems all right. I do feel a little bad for him that he got the end of that kingly brunt, you know? So as we forge these new alliances and forge these new lands and crowns and see some of these rules get bent in different ways and different traditions get broken and different oaths get sworn and then also oaths and vows get broken that really seems to resonate i think that's a great depiction of the crown. And especially as we get into Renly, as Maddie mentioned for this episode, right, where you have that shiny copper man sitting there with his little Baratheon antlers. That's interesting. And in the same way, right?

These both crowns, you know, I love that you brought in Renly's based on the symbols that people associate with it until this final product this final representation is no long there's no resemblance and is so far divorced from it and that's what's going on i think with the northern crown where it's it's getting divorced like as maddie points out we don't know what that looks like but still pulling all those same symbols in order to do this a shadow of a shadow of a shadow you're just bouncing shadows off of walls to recreate this and that's the same with renly's crown right like how far divorced is this from the baratheons and and you know it's no longer real right it's there's no relationship to reality in terms of they're just doing whatever they want in terms of who they're going to set up as king and it's there's no basis in that claim as much as Renly tries to

say that there is and we'll we'll get into that that comes up later in this chapter yeah we're going to talk about some false kings though we have to shout out a real king during our clash of kings, our friend Phocion, who's modeling some great 3D stuff. And I've heard and maybe seen some rumors of Rob's crown being made and almost in a meta way, completely from description only, right? Which is like the coolest thing because that's how rob's crown was made it was made from the description of this great crown so phocion has truly been a great smith in making this and we'll have to i hope someday it's a public thing that we can share out there and post photos or post links to because i'm sure that's a business i would like a part of i would like a crown personally yeah i was like but what if we could wear it one day?

Not just post. What if Phocion just, like, made crowns? Wow. Maybe I don't even want that one anymore. I mean, I do. It's like, I was just thinking crowns. Well, more on that business and the confines, right? The royal raiments that confine you to that power much later.

But, Eliana, I know one of your favorite things are reviews. And we got a review that is my favorite review. We got a review that is great podcast. Five stars. Thank you. Thank you, Mike. It looks like it's from a friend named Mike. Absolutely love that one of these girls drops F-bombs like no other. Five stars. Thank you. Thank you, Mike. It looks like it's from a friend named Mike.

Absolutely love that one of these girls drops F-bombs like no other. First of all- Which one, Mike? Yeah, which one? I actually legitimately- Which one? We legitimately don't know. There's a Modern Family episode where Mitch and Cam, this couple on the show, argue about who had the crush on them of this guy from their work or one of their works and uh that's kind of how this feels i'm like which one of us mike which one of us drops the f-bomb

yeah i i think we're both pretty you know recently we're aggressive yeah you recently you and i had to do something where we couldn't curse on it we're like okay and we had just gotten this review and we're like all right so this is gonna be this is gonna be fun then a challenge yeah it was an opportunity to improve ourselves I guess but I didn't fucking like it I fucking hated it we stepped up to the challenge

I see what you did there Chloe also yeah you haven't called this out as my allegedly favorite thing in a while oh the iTunes reviews sorry Yeah, you haven't called this out as my allegedly favorite thing in a while. Oh, the iTunes reviews, sorry. I haven't.

No, I haven't. And I just wanted to rediscover this part of your personality before we forge our way through a big lightning round, a thunderstorm. We will. Anyway, so Mike, if you're caught up in listening to these episodes or when you do catch up please let us know which one which one it is also to the other listeners please also email us or tweet us at girlsgoncanon and let us know which one of us you

think it is or know for sure that it is because I'm curious get at that gmail I have to know is it me or is it Eliana? Who gets the rose? Who gets the rose? Well, in this episode, it's Marjorie.

Marjorie has the rose. Or it's Renly. Because Renly's got all the roses around him. Well, without further ado, let's get into our lightning lord round. This is a big one. Tyrion 2. Tyrion's plans for Janos Slynt are put into motion. Tyrion talks to Varys about the happenings of the city.

Arya 3. Arya and the others must go off the beaten path to avoid the gold cloaks. Arya finds wolves in the forest. Davos 1. Davos watches the seven burn at the hands of Melisandre and Stannis. Hey, we did that, POV. I know. Theon 1. Theon returns to Pyke after a decade, but his father rejects him and his proposal for an alliance.

I'll get a new one. Daenerys 1. Daenerys follows the great comet deeper into the sand, and her blood riders lead her to Qarth. Jon 2. Jon investigates Whitetree, an abandoned Free Folk village. Jon and Jaer discuss how Benjen may have reacted to the village. Arya 4. Lannister raiders attack the holdfast Arya and others are camping in and Yoren orders her to help evacuate the survivors Tyrion three Tyrion and Cersei fight fire with fire that not not exactly yet not literally that's later in this book but by putting out rumors that Stannis's daughter is illegitimate sorry figuratively Bran two the north begins to arrive for the harvest feast. Clay Serwyn brings news of Stannis' declaration, and Bran dreams of a golden man throwing him from a tower.

I don't know him. Tyrion IV. Tyrion knows that the only way to figure out who's rat is to lay them a trail of cheese. I want to be a rat. I love cheese. I also love cheese. Sansa too.

Sansa too. Sansa heads to the godswood to meet her Florian. She runs into Sandra Clegane on her way back. I see you, Chloe. Coincidence? I think not. Area 5. Arya's identity is revealed to Gendry, Lami, and Hot Pie.

As they seek refuge, they come across Gregor Clegane's camp, which leads to their capture and to Lami's demise. What the fuck, Salami? This is my favorite moment of season four. Tyrion 5. Tyrion begins a new production of Wildfire. Cleo's fray brings Robb Stark's peace terms. Tyrion finds his rat.

Brand 3. House Reed arrives at winterfell and lord bran hears their words and welcomes them to his hearth catalan 2 catalan tracks to bitter bridge where king renly's camp hosts a great melee resulting in a new addition to his king's guard brienne of tarth renly tells cadeline rob must bend the knee to him a messenger arrives with the news of stannis seizing storm's end yes so we're gonna start this out again with a quote with a sermon yes with a sermon from the book of cat time to do the sign of the cross they are catholic you know these tallies

as she slept amidst the rolling grasslands Ketlin dreamt that Bran was whole again and that Arya and Sansa held hands that Rickon was still a babe at her breast Robb crownless played with a wooden sword, and when all were safe asleep, she found Ned in her bed, smiling.

Sweet it was, sweet and gone too soon. Dawn came cruel, a dagger of light. She woke aching and alone and weary, Weary of riding. Weary of hurting. Weary of duty. I want to weep, she thought. I want to be comforted. I'm so tired of being strong. I want to be foolish and frightened for once. Just for a small while. That's all.

A day. An hour. That's all. A day. An hour. That is how the kids are saying hella relatable dog. That is, in this year, our good lord,

Catlin's year of 2021, that is mad relatable dog. Hella. Never. That's it. It is is and kind of interesting in you know put against danny's chapters probably in this book right where she has to she kind of feels the same way um and it's probably going to feel the same as Kat in some of these like next subsequent paragraphs

right but also this this opening sets the pace for the chapter where Catelyn again and again has to like remind herself that I'm tired but I've got to be strong and fierce right especially because she has to perform amongst these southern lords and you know in in the north as catelyn stark ned's wife but also in general she's been there long enough that they respect her we've talked about that and seen that in the previous few chapters of cat but now she's finding herself strangely a stranger to all of these southern politics who are actually kind of more sexist towards her than we see that the northern lords act right and when the northern lords do reassert patriarchal systems onto like cat like giving her opinion they're at least i think kind of like polite and courteous about it unlike people

like randall tarley and they're they're much more brusque about it and i'm also just like damn how has no one killed randall tar in his sleep? What? Randall put lie in her pussy? Tarly? You don't understand why no one's murdered the shit out of that guy? I hope someone does for Sam's sake. I legitimately don't know. I'm just like

I mean he might not want that. That's complicated. Anyways. Yeah like I'm surprised he didn't someone didn't seriously to robert him you know yeah he's he's a he's a piece of work he is a real piece of work and all of these men kind of are it's definitely as we'll talk it's kind of a boys club right it's kind of like it's almost like she knows that and and maybe this comes from just having family members that are a little more conservative, but there's a certain way that I have to act in front of a certain family,

that maybe I can't act myself in front of them or be myself, and she obviously knows she can't be herself herself here, and there's a certain way you're supposed to act to fit into these groups like a freaking country club, you know? like a freaking country club you know um it's like all these guys standing around at the country club having their their their bourbon while renly does his little show and parade yeah and and everyone it is like a parade everyone's loud as hell it's a big ass party she wants them to go away she's very tired of all the men uh even some of the northerners she's a little tired of it is a mood she she thinks it was her children she yearned for one day she promised herself as she lay a bed every morning one day she would allow herself to be less than strong but not today. It could not be today, as my alarm goes off at 7am every morning.

Same. Big same. Big same. Catelyn struggles to dress herself with her injured hands. Also same. Though Wendell Manderly offers her roast quail, she declines, and she's like, Oaten bread is fine. That is fine enough for her. Fine enough as it is for everyone. And I think this is kind of significant that Catelyn says it is fine enough for her because part of the respect that the Northmen show her is because of where she stands within their system,

right, as the wife of Ned Stark, the Lord Paramount, now the mother of the king. But here she's saying, none of us need to be eating fancy shit, which I think is quite in contrast to what we're not only going to see in Renly's camp soon, but also the way that we see the treatment of Stannis and his soldiers when they're marching in the north, right? The weather's horrendous. No one has any provisions, like hardly anyone does. And yet still the king and the highborns like asha get a larger and better cut whereas here catelyn is saying we don't do that we're different built different we're not like those men at the country club wasteful jeff bezos standard motherfucker with their lion vagina anyway sir manderley's kind of bummed about that, though. He definitely was like, oh, I was kind of hoping that she wanted roast quail because I wanted roast quail. And then we could have all just had roast quail, obviously. And though he loves food, Catlin notes, he does love his honor more.

So he's like, okay. Shad offers her some nettle tea and we get some exposition about him, of how Shad is from Winterfell. He's one of the 20 good men. 20 good men comes up more than once in this chapter, okay? Not that exact phrase, but the general idea. Accompanying her to visit Renly. And there's also been five lordlings sent

along with her for, you know, just gravitas. 20 good men. A trope to put in the canon. It's like fucking canon, alright? It really frustrates me that it is but i i just everyone was there everyone needs to feel it with me okay you either die or you live long enough to see yourself adapt the books anyways oh my god i'll be speaking about this in a bit but i do think that this aligns so well with brand's two harvest feast

chapters we just kind of passed by in the lightning round uh he sits with wyman manderley right during the the northern kind of come together for the harvest feast while cadeline here sits with wendell almost simultaneously and sir wendell is really upset about the food kind of circling back to what you were saying and it is such a hard topic because cadeline is being practical right like you mentioned she is being practical she doesn't want to overstep her bounds she is also depressed so like yeah she probably doesn't want a fucking big feast right now she's probably eating food for its nutrition and to keep strength to function on her trip.

And she probably also doesn't want to put anyone out. Like, she's a widow. And yes, she is, you know, a young woman born of river run. She's of noble blood, which means obviously they wouldn't mistreat her necessarily. Like, they don't mistreat Sansa, born of noble blood, getting the shit beat out of her at the capital. But I mean, less hostile terms uh she's born of noble blood but like they don't i mean river run didn't always serve the north and hasn't always been serving the north right like this is a recent past you know half century thing of a great alliance being born so out of respect and out of respect for her as ned's widow of course they're going to be kind to her but they don't have to be as we see with

widows in the story they don't have to be treated kindly and valued and she doesn't want to put anyone out and all of these dudes are performing for her also as the other thing right like they're trying to be sweet in several ways one she's the only lady they have in their court right now, right? Like, they probably have camp followers. We don't see that because Catelyn's not paying attention to that, but they're like, let us perform for you. Let us hunt things, our wolf mother.

Like, trophies. Let us bring you back trophies, Catelyn. I want to hunt you a quail, Lady Stark, to make up for the sadness and loss and despair you're feeling right now. so it is very sweet it's kind of cute in a way that they're like let us do this for you or lady catalan let me do this for you uh because it is what they're supposed to do societally speaking you know they should be respectful and kind to her um but it's just hard because like you know when you're

depressed you don't want to do things at all and catalan has to do a lot of things right now at all like a lot of them and yeah she's just trying to be practical and it's hard it's hard and i think what you're saying about her appetite that's absolutely true because it comes up again later on at the feast in the castle but you know i think that's a great observation of like how everyone everyone is feeling yeah kind of trying to impress her and comfort her some of it is just maybe they're just nice young men um or not we don't know that they're all young but yeah they're just nice and some of it could be you know kind of like the same vibes as like Theon Greyjoy lifting Catelyn out of the boat. And we're like, all right. What, milf vibes? Yeah.

Sorry, wrong vibes, wrong vibes. No, no, no. That is what I'm saying, though. Like some of them are like, all right, hot young widow. A feast for crows. Yeah. But we'll talk about that, too, in just a few, actually. Yeah.

In widow terms. But Kat didn talk about that too in just a few, actually. Yeah. In widow terms. But Kat didn't want this responsibility, the one that we're talking about right now. But she didn't want the responsibility of being sent on this journey to treat with Renly. Because she hardly knows Renly and wants to be by her father during his last days, obviously. And, I mean, the problem is, problem is like catelyn you propose an idea right like oh we should go to redley sometimes people are gonna be like okay well you came up with the idea now you got to go follow through with it and i'm just like haven't you learned this lesson yet cat that's what happens when you come up with ideas 101 101

and rob says it has to be her right right? Hoster's sick. Brendan's essential. He has to march. And she's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's rewind that a second, little sir. What did you say? March? And Rob's like, I have to keep my Northmen entertained. And Catelyn is like, okay, we

planted seeds. Let them grow. And you know what? I'm like, no, Catelyn, we did that, right? We planted seeds, and them grow. And you know what? I'm like, no, Catlin, we did that, alright? We planted seeds, and it's ten years later, and there's like, I don't know, twelve, twenty more books left in this series. And also

Rob agrees with me. We can't just fucking let, plant seeds and just watch and let them grow, alright? We don't got time for that. I personally do not. Yeah. let them grow all right we don't got time for that i personally do not yeah there there's something so significant though right about about this choice being made without her being invited to that choice like that was an indicator what we just read we're like oh interesting you're marching no one told me that i've'm here absolutely and and like his justification of

like well i have to you know keep the northmen entertained i find that to be like an interesting justification and i'll come back to that in a second with how else we see that manifest in this chapter oh because it manifests in other places absolutely Absolutely. Oh, for sure. And I do think there's a little bit of it that's guilt, right? That he, I mean, he can't bear to look at her without thinking of his two little sisters and his dead dad, right? Like those are already a body count on top of also the Karstarks and other men lost already in front of him in his war and not in front of him.

And he knows Catelyan's right in a lot of aspects and even though she's right as we discussed last episode it's a lot of impossible position to be in very impossible positioning going on here that like no matter which way you turn you gotta lose an extremity right you gotta sever a limb to get through this one way or another and obviously catelyn being right by saying like this you can't do this because this is gonna happen can't do this because this is gonna happen like a mom over your shoulder playing chess isn't helpful which we've discussed uh but also being right isn't what being kang in the north is about for the northern men you know like they aren't seeing it in those same things, and

there's all those tones of rebellion that are really coming up here. Robbellion, if you will. Robert and Rob alike. Winning the war, losing the girl, the girls, the girls, many women. Elia left the horrors of Kang's landing, Liana in her tower, while the men

bloody each other for lands and rights and tax relief to Sansa to Jane to everything to to come back to the seeds and the planting of the seeds though I think it's important that Rob brings that gardening up as Bran is playing Lord in Winterfell at the harvest feast Rob notes the importance right he says I cannot sit at Riverrun waiting for peace it makes me look as if I were afraid to take the field again. When there are no battles to fight, men start to think of hearth and harvest. Father told me that. Even my north men grow restless. So we're exploring a lot of those similar themes

between Bran 2 and Bran 3 to this chapter. Secession, later bastardy in the story, what makes a ruler, the lannisters corruption and of course the north's hardcore loyalty and lealty but while rob leads his battles that path for the north the whole path that like the north is about to be taken is unraveling beneath this chapter theons landed at pike to a not great response no one listens to Danella Hornwood because her tits were too loud and she gets yeeted by Ramsay. The North is on its way to like being sorry for the way that I am.

No one listens to her though. Don't be sorry. She's just slutting it up at Winterfell, you know, with all these prospects on the line. Danella Hornwood. Talk about boning, you know, because she had to eat her finger of the bone. Oh my god.

Look, the North is on its way to eventually running out of grain in a couple books, and also running out of people to run it, question mark, until all the Starks come back to life while, you know, all the men are down in the South warring. Watching this balancing act,

being pulled by Rob, Bran, and Catelyn as they navigate something that hasn't been done in over 200 years and hasn't been done for a reason, it's hard as fuck. It's going to take a lot of fucking work and a lot of people working together.

If this Northern Independence shit was easy, everyone would be doing it right everyone would fucking be doing northern independence we'd all be independent but okay hot take in this book everyone is doing it okay well the clash of kengzing i get it but if it was easy they'd be doing it successfully is what I mean, Eliana. And none of them are. They all suck right now. Except Rob is like, you know. He's a good boy.

A good man, sorry. So they're all independent together and therefore not independent. Maybe the independents are the non-allies we made along the way. That's a thought. It's not a good thought.

No. Rob also says that he wants peace, right? Same as Catelyn, but says that the Lannisters won't give it to them if they don't make any noise. And Rob does say, though, he isn't marching on Harrenhal, though, so

thinking face emoji. He goads Catelyn with saying well either you go treat with renly or i'm going to send the gray john catelyn's like that's bait but she she admires her son for doing it anyway for for putting it out there i love that she's like blues closing her way through oh so it's not. So where are you marching? Can you give me a, what does it sound like? Yeah. Piecing it together. And then she goes to leave after this, right?

She says goodbye to her father, and she's like, I fucking hope he survives. Hope this guy doesn't die while I'm gone, because I don't need that guilt on my conscience, because hell knows what that'll do to a person. know it could impound zombify them make them a creature of merciless vengeance anyways hoster mistakes her for minissa when she visits once again and catelyn says as she leaves wait for me my lord she said as his eyes closed. I waited for you. Oh, so many times. Now you must wait for me.

Wait for me. Oh my god, no. Coming. Wait. She says those lines and same as last time. It's like, my heart just breaks. And then Hadestown plays in the background. Okay, Satan.

I didn't come prepared to this podcast for you to all of a sudden bring hadestown into it but oh also it's here the amber spyglass what anyways anyways cat feels that she keeps being pushed to go further south when she has to actually be going back north but she resides herself to thinking that oh rob needs me more so we see caitlyn stark you know being forced further and further south to you know where she's gonna die um in the south never returning north to wichita fell uh to where her children are just like her husband and i i do think it's interesting when you put that together with the culture shock that she's been experiencing when she's like, what the fuck is going on here?

She looks at all the southern lords and their kingdoms. And then I also put that next to Ned's warning of like, you know, when Starks go south, they tend to die, right? As he thinks of his father and brother and sister. And, you know, in regards to our discussions of, Catelyn is also very much a Stark now. That kind of ends up happening to her. Is that why she dies here in the south? So, I do think it's funny, right, that Ser Wendell is kind of guiding them there.

Ser Wendell Manderly, right, here by the upper Mander. And as we know, the Manderlys used to be based along the Mander, right? That's where they get their name from. So there's an interesting returning of, like, home, but not returning home, right? When we're talking about people who are no longer Southern. I mean, as you pointed out when we discussed this last time the manderleys and like wendell isn't even like oh yeah we still live here probably that's what i've been told it reminds me of cheryl from archer uh when she's talking about the neighbors and she's like total

shitbox uh that's how i feel like wendell's just walking by oh yeah that place total shitbox we had to move pretty much you know after mom and dad gave me the master bedroom we had to move no I'm just kidding that's astute though with the southern connections of people that are no longer able to

identify with that culture and Kat does feel a lot of that clash in this chapter of Kings oh wow we're both fired to identify with that culture and cat does feel a lot of that clash in this chapter of kings of kings oh wow we're both fired we're synced or it's like a negative positive so it like cancels each other out i was gonna say we could pilot a jaeger then i remembered i don't think you watch that hurtful no getting the evA Shinji all right so Catelyn is dreading this meeting

with Renly she is not excited I mean she's not excited for anything as we've talked about with her food finally done she wants to get the meeting over with and set the pace for her column of riders and Hal Mullen comes with her he is beside her bearing the banner their

column gets taken shortly after the mill by 20 good men oh yes eliana's favorite men yeah this is actually it's different group of 20 good men that's what's remarkable about it so there's 40 you would say 40 men now, yes. And a five and five then, huh? Well, 20 good men, led by Sir Cullen of Greenpools, greets and takes them to Bitterbridge. When they get to Renly's host, it's huge. It's enormous. Thousands of cook fires, horse lines for leagues, great siege machines, mangonels, trebuchets, rolling rams.

I just got a lot of these actually in ck3 i have to tell you all crusader kings 3 there's a technology aspect and throughout the ages your culture learns things so i just got trebuchets and rolling rams uh pikes a bazillion pavilions men with weapons and swine herds and camp followers it's a ton of people fucking ton of people it is it is and i like that they described the tents here as kind of like looking like mushrooms because not only does it make the whole thing feel enormous it kind of feels fungal right whereas the tourney described in the hedge knight if i'm not mistaken was the tents were kind of described as looking like flowers and and it was it's really exciting

and beautiful so if anything should be described as flowers like it should be this camp right all the tyrells are here of course and we're going to see that the flower their flowers like on fucking everything soon but it's the flowers covering up the rot the fungus underneath much like tywin's funeral right and the roses that the tyra's hold to cover the stench under their noses great point great point interesting well yeah i mean the golden rose of highgarden is everywhere including many of the houses from the reach such as tarly fossaway both colors florence oakheart, Mullendors, and then across the Mander are the Stormlords. You've got

houses Cairn, Penrose, Estermont, and a bunch of small lords that she's like, I don't actually know them. That makes sense, right? Because they are literally from across the way. I love that they are here staying across the Mander, which shows that divide, right? And that divide

actually becomes really eminent uh as we fast forward through the story because these houses where they are after this and by the end of a dance with dragons and where they go after this is so interesting so we have the first part tarly fossaway florent oakheart crane the m. Parvin Crane, this one is so interesting. He joins Stannis' cause and ends up imprisoned by the Tyrells later. And then there are other factions, right? There's Lady Malara, who's the wife of Lord Alistair. You know, he gets the old toast and roast. Sir Rickard, or Richard Crane, husband of Ryleen Florent,

who's only mentioned once. He's a throwaway. Meredith Crane came to King Ryleen Florent, who's only mentioned once. He's a throwaway. Meredith Crane came to King's Landing with Margaery, which is interesting because it's like a microcosm of Sansa, right? She's almost like the sacrifice for her family in their crimes of choosing

Stannis instead of Renly and the Tyrells. They follow the Tyrells to keep in pace and make sure, you know, money where their mouth is. The Tarlys support the crown and the Tyrells. They're going to end up sided with Aegon. That's pretty much canon. We kind of, we know that. We've talked about it. It's a thought. They're probably going to go to Aegon later. They're fickle. The Fossaways, Deadstop, Tyrell supporters. Right now there's really nothing else going on for them. We might see them show up as a friend of the Reach, too.

When Renly dies, Mark Molendor bends the knee to the crown. Cersei then implicates him inside of Margaery's bosom and her cavern. The Florence follows Stannis. As we know, the Oakhearts likely went back to haphazardly supporting the crown and the Tyrells. They just were like, okay, well, that was fun. Bye. My son's on the Kingsguard, and I'll just go back to the crown and the tyrells they just were like okay well that was fun bye my son's on the king's garden i'll just go back to the ground now plushy old she's having a life you know house karen penrose and eastermont eastermont stannerman through and through house penrose well we know how that goes stay tuned house karen also goes stannis uh i thought that was all really

interesting right with of course the the different factions there and how they end up choosing and House Karen also goes Stannis. I thought that was all really interesting, right? With, of course, the different factions there and how they end up choosing that they are separated by the Mander. Is it a metaphor? That's interesting. Maybe. That and it's literal. It's both. It is both.

Yeah. Figurative and literal. Yes. Well, something that's also kind of like that is what is towering above all of Renly's football stadium size, but not really, but it's still like really fucking big, a banner. It's this enormous golden cloth with just like the black crown stag of Baratheon on it. And then they have this exchange of like, My lady, do you hear that noise? Asked Talos Mullen, trotting close. What is that?

She listened, shouts and horses screaming and the clash of steel and Cheering? She said. Ugh, cheering? The worst. Yeah, turns out there's a melee like it's happening right here right now there's like a whole ass tourney like

happening for some reason and they're like what what let's hit each other with sticks let's just get out there and just boom boom yeah they're just like I don't understand why this is happening it kind of like Ned just like i don't understand why this is happening it kind of like ned being like i don't understand why this is happening for me i i did not the hands

turn yeah and so the language isn't actually similar but at all um but it does still remind me a little of like an inversion of when Stannis arrives at the wall, right? First there's the horn and then Mance and all of them were like, you're not tricking us, right? This isn't the Night's Watch attacking us. And Jon's like, no, no. Oh my god, why is this happening to me? And then so they're like, wait, what is that sound as it like builds? And then turns out like you realize, wait, that's cheering and it's for, they're saying Stannis.

You're like like what is happening but with renly here at this at this turning right the cheering is empty and obviously as catlin says like none of this makes any sense like there's a real ass war going on like my son's been fighting in it but speaking of rob's war and the men who have come with him, Renly's camp, same as the North think of hearth and home and especially not like especially now he has to move now with the fires of vengeance burning hot within them right they're still in it for this cause but when it comes to Renly's camp Eternity really does sate I think what I see is kind of unambitious these unimaginative appetites of the southern lords which it only seems ambitious because they're like yeah actually i want the whole kingdom

compared to the northern independence and because they have literal large appetites as we're going to see at this dinner but they can afford to dawdle uh because the southern lords unlike the northmen and unlike especially the river lords haven't yet been touched by the war, right? They haven't had the crown turn on them in the exact same way, even though they technically have against the Wrathings. But anyways, their forces are also, the southern forces here, right, are also strong enough that the crown and Lannister forces cannot dare to challenge the Tyrells outright. And also, it's kind of like far out of the way. So they don't have to worry about rebuilding anything and they have all these resources,

whereas Rob's like, no, we have to strike now. In fact, that is literally why Stannis loses, right? Because he gets wrapped up, as we'll talk about in Penrose eventually, I'm sure we'll chat about it again, right? Since we already lived it once, but getting wrapped up in Penrose is. I'm sure we'll chat about it again, right? Since we already lived it once. But getting wrapped up in Penrose is literally why he loses.

It is absolutely why he loses. And I definitely got these same kind of vibes with Stannis at the Wall at the end of the chapter with the siege, the way it ends very abruptly. And it's like, oh, they're being besieged. It's straight up Stannis, Stis stannis at the wall you know uh it's the same kind of vibes and not many other chapters in the story end so abruptly like that with kind of like a reversal of the tides right there aren't so so many that do that um you know

daenerys with the astapor siege is kind of similar chapter wise uh in a way in that just similar aspect which is funny because yeah stannis um interesting interesting interesting both of john's love interests similar times yep and you know i mean how dario turning on the crows right on his crows interesting interesting but those are definitely some interesting thoughts that feel pretty resonant thematically resonant about especially with that stannis abrupt ending yeah yeah and how he just suddenly shows he likes to do that all right for a man who says that he actually is very dramatic he's very dramatic redley's i can't believe he doesn't have titytos Blackwood

on his side I feel like they could be drama queens or Khaleesi's drama Khaleesi's no I'm just kidding together you know like feathered cloaks honestly all the Baratheon brothers now that I think about it they are all very dramatic oh yeah yeah I mean yeah like Renly obviously has a flair for drama here as we're seeing in this chapter and like the show stannis his own drama like he he's he's he's very dramatic in the way he wants to do things and robert also he that man you had a scene ragers but also a scene he's like if i don't get what i want we're having tantrums absolutely what are the similarities between the Baratheon bro trio? Well, they're all giant man babies, first of all, with deep-seated parent issues.

Next. Actually, though, they are. So Catelyn finds Hal Mullen annoying for stating the obvious when he says it, but I kind of required his mansplaining myself i know you might have too eliana uh and everyone's sort of like what the fuck because sir colin is like oh one second let me present you to king renly this is madness catlin thought real enemies on every side and half the realm in flames and renly sits here playing at war like a boy with his first wooden sword. I like that line. That was good. Amazing. Amazing. Especially because we start the chapter

with that pivotal her thinking, if only Rob could be at home like a boy with his wooden sword. And then she goes somewhere and sees a boy at a new home with his new wooden sword, right? And his fancy people cheering him on and she's like oh my god this kid's calling himself king i'm sure part of herself has to be like make of the sign of the the seven right on her face and chest and like thank freaking seven that i at least raised them to have a little brains because my children would never play games like this hopefully if i wasn't there um but at the same time i think that's also part of her fear right like um i do not want you to succumb to the same manner and there's also something really significant about

renly and bran as younger brothers being raised in wartime of their older brother's rebellion right so Renly and Bran versus Robert and Rob uh Renly as we're going to discuss and break down throughout this obviously learned from Robert's gallantry versus Bran hosting the harvest festival and treating the banners and Rob's current gallantry and what he's doing at war and trying to entertain his men, as we've discussed thematically. Bran, also in the Harvest Feast, comes in. It's really honestly a proud moment that he's riding on his horse, broken but not dead, able to ride, something he thought he could never do, right? And Rob, as strained as his family tensions are right now, with all that he's lost, all that he's losing,

and unfortunately, because I guess we're doing these fucking chapters, all he's going to lose, right? Like his life. Ha ha ha. And we're really doing that red wedding shit. And him and Bran are both acting with as much grace as they can muster in this time, I would say, for their age and maturity. Sometimes they're both

acting a little big for their britches, especially in the very ever frustrating face of a fray on either side. But look at the Winterfell event, right? The Harvest Feast. It's understated, but classy. They each bring big animals. So there's mutton chops, there's oryx, there's venison, there's duck, there's boar, there's goose, fish, casks of booze, gluttonous a little bit on the food, but that's what the lords have to be proud of, right? Of the food they raised in their own land and their giant pastures. And this is kind of, I don't know, this event here feels the same energy as going clubbing mid pandemic. Okay. Having lived through seeing this, it just kind of feels like all the people are like, oh yeah, I'm going to out. COVID's not real. I'm gonna go party at the

bar this weekend, like, I don't know, like in 2020 sometime. But that's what it feels like, seeing Renly's whole everyone out partying, like, rolling dice, drinking from horns, you know, like, just tons of beer from horns. Stannis and renly learned the wrong lessons from robert's war opposite directions they took the same information but opposite directions stannis took the suffering along with your men thing a little too deep right he's like oh okay well i guess i'll just be a martyr the rest of my life uh i'll show them all how bad they treated me by winning better but renly was like wow things are so much nicer now that we're not starving all the time thanks to my big bro robert robert throws

great parties great ragers i'm gonna do what robert did especially when like renly's probably his biggest most significant memories are probably during the rebellion and like yo stanis sucked. I was so hungry. But as soon as Robert was king, things were cool. He was six. You know, like he was six. He wouldn't really have known Robert. Robert grew up in the Vale. He wasn't even there. I imagine he would have projected onto his big stag bro pretty hard as we hear him later talk constantly about the hammer winning the war for Robert and that's all that matters you know I could be a conqueror but prettier and I don't know I I think

that being pushed in one direction so hard by Stannis growing up there and like having that influence and having no real image of your big brother of Robert, right? And the real image you see is that he just like throws giant feasts, gets everyone wasted, fucks a lot, and wins. Question mark, kind of, kind of wins. That's a lot of a legacy to like watch and have imprinted on you. So it makes sense why Renly's the way he is. to like watch and have imprinted on you so it makes sense why runley's the way he is yeah i think that's a great contrast between the way that this rebellion impacted both of them i mean obviously it has to right we hear so often about how it impacted stannis because he loves talking

about it whereas you know runley talks about it a little but it's something that he was younger during but i just think just that he was younger during. But I think just because he was younger doesn't make it any less traumatic. Right. Perhaps it's even like almost. More in a way. I mean, I don't know if it's more or not. It's just differently so.

Right. Because Stan has had like the responsibility of it. But Renly is like a child. So powerless during it. And he sees Robert as that's what power looks like being able to do what you want being able to enjoy life and obviously he covets that yeah and i mean in some aspects like i will shit on redley all day long um we're gonna show a lot here yeah it's the fucking worst but i just shit on all Baratheons.

Yeah, they all kind of... Anyways, like, Maya is good. Maya is good. Gendry is alright. I like Gendry. I like Edric. I think he's great. We defended Edric. Yeah, we defended Edric a lot.

Endearing. And earing, if you know what I mean, because of his big florid ears. But, yeah. I like Bella. Bella seems interesting. I like Bella. Ringer Bella, you know? Yeah. Good of his big florant ears but yeah I uh I like Bella, Bella seems interesting I like Bella, ringer Bella you know good for her yeah for sure Argella Durandon

you're all welcome you're fucking welcome anyways yeah there are Baratheons we like just not these three I mean even the Robert's progresses during the rebellion right like he feasted his way around the country, getting and hid his way in people's cellars across the country

and got himself hidden and ate their food, ate their booze, made his way around. That's a great point. And that's not to say like a lot of what Robert did right, he did right, right? Like lifting your enemy up off their knees and shaking their hand and saying hey if you're not going to be a dick then you can join me you know we can have a beer you can sign this treaty to say I'm not going to backstab your ass you're

welcome back in my graces we'll build a new world that was the ultimate hope right like that was that's the best you could hope for in a rebellion, in my opinion, like, of someone not stabby-stabbing you. You know, then you have Tywin, on the other hand, and his coalition of, like, what if we just killed you and then we wouldn't have to deal with you and all of your ancestors if we just murdered all of you? Hmm. Thoughts? Anyone? Prayers? and he's like i don't care but yeah i think what you called out for robert is also a great point because when we're talking about him and edrick right we talked a lot about uh the the lessons that edrick took from robert in his legacy the legend of him and how much that frustrated stan is because it reminds him of renly and i think it's also because the what you were talking about right robert being like yeah, and then we were fighting,

but then I went and then I like, fuck that girl over there, even though we were in this battle. There's no doubt in my mind that these were the stories that Robert was telling Renly also. And that's why Renly thinks like, yeah, I think this is what war is like, right? Fucking people in his head. Speaking of shadows of shadows of shadows. Yeah.

Well, Catalan does take pretty good notice of the southern lords during this and kind of sizes them up. Mathis Rowan, Lord Rowan, and Lord Randall Tarly. And like I mentioned earlier, Gentleman's Club of the South. But then, of course, she sees Renly, the man we're talking about. In their midst, watching and laughing with his young queen by his side, sat a ghost in a golden crown. Small wonder the lords gather around him with such fervor, she thought. He is Robert come again. Renly was handsome as Robert had been handsome, long of limb, broad of shoulder, with the same coal-black hair, fine and straight, the same deep blue eyes, the same easy smile. The slender

circlet around his brows seemed to suit him well. It was soft gold, a ring of roses exquisitely wrought. At the front lifted a stag's head of dark green jade, adorned with golden eyes and golden antlers. The crowned stag decorated the king's green velvet tunic as well, worked in gold thread upon his chest, the Baratheon sigil in the colors of Highgarden. The girl who shared the high seat with him was also of Highgarden, his young queen, Margaery, daughter to Lord Mace Tyrell. Their marriage was the mortar that held the great southern alliance together cadeline knew renly was one in 20 the girl no older than rob very pretty with a doe's soft eyes and a mane of curling brown hair that fell about her shoulders

and lazy ringlets her smile was shy and sweet there they are there they are i i just love those first few lines of you know when we're talking about those connections between robert and renly of that he was a ghost in a golden crown that he's robert come again i uh i don't know that i've ever seen fan art that made me feel like renly for my head you know what i mean like not show renly he was great he was fun he was a hoot uh he died just like regular renly you know so whatever but renly in the books renly in the books i don't know what to imagine so i don't know if you have good fan art send it to me please i feel i want to see i feel like and i think that the actor who i i'm sorry i don't know his name but the actor who did renly did a good job but i think what they could have done was fucking like parrot trapped uh joe dempsey and had him play both uh gendry and renly and he'd still be rowing to be fair

yeah yeah just throw a little different wigs or facial hair on him, right? Oh, the Baratheons could share one wig too! They are technically Targaryens in some ways. Just dye the Witcher wig, right? Henry Cavill. Everyone wants him to be Robert too.

Just dye that black. Black, black. I think the smart choice is obviously cast Joee dempsey as young robert baratheon that's like that's the point yeah you know who actually looks a lot like what i would imagine torrence combs who plays seb bash on rain the the very highly historically accurate mary queen of scott's story so historically accurate i don't want to tell you how historically accurate but it was on the cw if you'd believe it so glossing over that he is like total young young robert torrence combs look him up he has a great young Robert face, beautiful eyeballs.

Good for him. He could do it. Especially because what I always think is so surprising and sticks out to me is that he didn't beard it up. Maybe during war, had a big old bushy beard. But even though Robert feels like a beard person, he was clean shaven ned thinks ned recalls clean shaven muscled like a maiden's fantasy those to me feel like important fan cast features so think about that absolutely you know someone who was good was finn jones as loris in my opinion and we do get our first glimpse at loris here different for me in the book i do have

a different vision of him as well but i like finn jones as loris and he yeah he's doing amazing here he's legendary and yeah he some of the knights team up to try to take him down so the big confusing thing about this is it's a melee right so it's not's not a tourney. It's not a joust. I mean, it is a tourney, but it's not a joust. There's no joust. And it's a melee. So there's like a bunch of people that were out there going to town on each other. And one by one, you know, they're getting picked off.

So there's this little passage we get. passage we get uh a roar went up from the crowd as a helmetless red bearded man with a griffin on his shield went down before a big knight in blue armor his steel was a deep cobalt even the blunt morning star he wielded with such deadly effect his mount barded in the quartered sun and moon heraldry of house tarth so it kind of goes through if you're not paying attention and you have to follow the blue the the blue blue blue blue that's brienne that's the that's the important part i'm just gonna say is brienne but it goes through all the people that she takes down and here the most important part is that she's fucking up red Ronit. Fuck him up, Brienne. He fucking does... Get his ass.

Get his ass. God. Yeah. I wish that they had brought... I don't think I remember them bringing that up again another time that we see Red Ronit in Jaime's chapters. And, you know, we deserve to be reminded of the time that Brienne kicked his ass, because...

I mean, good for her. Yeah. How satisfying. You know? I mean, this is a satisfying event for her and I know we're not going to talk about it a ton ton today. We're going to try not to because, you know, we have a whole time in the

far, far distant future that we're going to talk about Brienne. You'll all be here you don't need to worry about it we'll let you know when it happens so we won't go too far but this is a revenge like day for her she's like yeah i look fly in my beautiful deep cobalt armor that matches my eyeballs first of all hell yeah looking litty and second of all i'm out here beating the shit out of a man that fucking disrespected me, straight up disrespected me, and doing it legally. I'm allowed to. And then I'm going to get inducted as a Kingsguard member.

Hell yeah. She's got a plan. She's got a five-year plan that really only lasts the next few weeks. But it's all good. George had a five-year plan too and look how that went oh god so the blue knight is giving these men a run for their money these other men right this blue knight he is giving them a run for his money and this is a lot so the blue knight takes him down holds a dirt to loris tyrell the last challenger at the melee, which is kind of great because you mentioned earlier how this was a tourney and this is literally the hands tourney for Catelyn.

This is Catelyn's hands tourney, right? Here's Loras on the ground mouthing yield at a knight, almost getting fucked up, just like the hands tourney. And the blue knight gives a champion salute to the king. Catelyn's really surprised when Loras gets his helm off. She's like, wow, he's really young. He's only two years older than Rob. And then pays attention to the blue knight's armor. The blue knight's armor is full of scars, dented,

probably from all the maces and the war hammers, right? Chipped. And the cloak on it is in rags. The knight's movements also show that he took quite a beating out there. Yeah, so we keep seeing he. We all already know it's Brienne, but, like, the chapter says he. Anyway, so, yeah, Catelyn being surprised that Loras' age reminds me a little of a moment, I want to say it's in the last chapter, right, where Catelyn's like,

Robb Squire is two years older than him, but feels so much younger than him, feels inexperienced because now Robb has to be a king, has been at war, right, and is taking on the roles that men do, which I think kind of is meant to contrast a little

with Loras here as well, considering that they're playing at war. And that combines, right, with the later dialogue regarding Knights of Summer and the promises of being memorialized in song, because the melee is very much about that, right? Like all of these dents and the wear on the knight's armor really, I think, symbolizes Brienne's later journey of learning about the broken man or broken women. And I think that Chloe's going to talk about this more later. And she might be tempted to become that, but is actually very much recalling the chivalric romance tropes in terms of having a nightly quest later on, despite, like, taking down Loras. Yeah, well, I mean, Loras did steal her hunky handsome man from her to be fair so what's a revenge story what's a revenge day what's good for you by olivia rodrigo without this moment

taking loris down too and god but okay but that is not what good for you was about good for you she was actually she was quite nice towards that other girl you know as nice as one can be in all that whole album okay yeah but renly's dead bro look we're projecting anyways would it be a love letter to brianne to introduce her to the story canonically right this is her her appearance without of course appreciating that she is the mystery knight a la the rebellion but notbellion, but of course her actual roots. And even possibly her genetic roots to Dunk the Lunk,

right, showing up in tourneys. I just think it's such a beautiful, I don't know, it is a beautiful love letter to Brienne and to Dunk and to the Rebellion for all these beautiful classic little themes to show up in a mystery night, coming to the rings and winning the underdog

and you know brienne's described here you're talking about her as a mystery knight constantly as the blue knight and again that's also part of the chivalric romance right yeah and those legends you have mystery knights pop up a lot in in those medieval stories like one of the most popular is the green knight also a color versus blue so where's that what's the next one the red knight anyway a heart i believe it's heart oh oh i'm sorry it's captain planet right here if you're keeping count at home well Well, Catlin thinks that all the cheers for this mystery night are quite strange, including tarth, tarth, and a beauty beyond, you know,

there's just a few of those. Most of it is actually pretty quiet silence. And then Renly gives like what I would say is actually a pretty semi backhanded compliment. And then a drunken archer says, you know, the blue knight pulled Lororis off his horse and that was improper and so catelyn's like why are they booing the blue knight all right the blue knight was right i mean i'm gonna be honest why are they booing me i'm right catelyn's the only one right now here that doesn't know that's brienne of Tarth right like and the Northmen right so right now

before they know that's Brienne of Tarth I'm very interested in this reaction right like why are they booing what's wrong they they were the best knight in the whole competition they beat the shit out of everyone Catelyn is thinking so a goddamn right they were right first of all and I do want to come back to the armor I think it's so curious that her armor is described just like she is after a feast for crows. Right. Full of scars, dented with maces and war hammers, chipped her cloak in rags, which that reminds me of Sandor's white cloak. Right. Bloodied and in rags after the Blackwater coming up. Even when Catelyn thinks at close close hand the brilliant blue armor looked rather less splendid but it's so interesting that in this chapter her spirit is not like that right she is

as we're going to speak about she's really confident in my opinion uh for someone that just had to face the world and come up here and beat the shit out of a dude that rejected her one time and you know try to perform for this other guy she's trying to you know live up to the sword for so i don't know i just like the the whole like this is her day like brienne's having a big ass day out and that's what she's physically going to look like her armor but she's also kind of been treated the way her armor looks by all these people already. That's so true. And that's a great point and it reminds me a little of Tyrion saying make it your armor.

And that's definitely what you said, what we see throughout this chapter and I mean all of Brienne's story. Yeah, all the time. I mean the whole story of, you know, every guy playing game with her being like haha lol you're ugly just kidding okay so that's gonna be saved for far off in the future but this

is likely what she'll physically look like and it is it is sad especially because now we get the reaction uh sir colin introduces her as brienne of tarth daughter to lord selwyn the even star and catalan her reaction is daughter catalan was horrified brienne the beauty they name her though not to her face lest they be called upon to defend those words with their bodies goddamn straight motherfuckers say it to my face and there's something so curious about marjorie and brienne being introduced as two types of the maiden here in a way or brienne is the warrior i guess at first but cadeline is of course the mother in these couple chapters very much so in her pain as a mother and in her overseeing as a mother and trying to seek peace as a mother over Renly and Stannis, right?

And here watching the way these two maids are at, at Bitterbridge, Catelyn sees kind of this very binary approach to these roles in the system. In Brienne and Margaery, she almost assigns and sees a bit of Arya and Sansa. And in Redly's wooden sword fight, she sees a bit of Robb. Brienne's eyes were large and very blue, a young girl's eyes, trusting, guileless, but the rest.

Her features were broad and coarse, her teeth prominent, crooked, her mouth too wide, lips so plump they seemed swollen. A thousand freckles speckled her cheeks and brows, and her nose had been broken more than once. Pity filled Catalin's heart. Is there any creature on earth as unfortunate as an ugly woman? Two minutes ago, Catalin was like, why are you booing the blue knight?

They're right. Now that Brienne's a woman, not right anymore. This versus the way that she sees Margaery is something that I feel is so interesting and pointed especially as we'll talk about in the way of how sansa sees marjorie in a different political court right uh definitely a different ball game the girl no older than rob very pretty does soft eyes and a mane of curling brown hair that fell about her shoulders in lazy ringlets. Her smile was shy and sweet. So between Margaery and Brienne,

Margaery here for Catelyn and how Margaery acts in this chapter largely, she doesn't overstep. She plays her role. She performs dutifully. She says the things she has to say when she's allotted to speak in the chapter. She doesn't overstep her

bounds she doesn't intrude on meetings you know she says for high garden for Renly oh thank you for coming I'm so sorry for your loss and then she retreats and obviously she's playing a very pivotal role for Renly's camp in that support for the Tyrells when we see her through Sansa's lens and Sansa's chapters in the stage in King's Landing, Margaery is taking control in a much different place and way that she has to to keep Joffrey, obviously, and her family aligned. Here, she feels pretty safe and seems pretty safe and plays her role. But Brienne, from Catelyn's perspective, which, look, we say it all all the time but it is inherently and systemically misogynistic by nature it's not a secret that catalan has a lot of conservative tendencies just as she has some societally liberal tendencies uh she rides that line brienne is outspoken she's

confident in this chapter she gets inducted into the rainbow guard and she's not afraid to speak her mind about her beliefs and what she feels about redly's camp from the get-go to Catelyn. And Catelyn is disapproving of that. I think that's pretty apparent in this chapter. She's disapproving of that, as well as how Brienne is fitting the role she's chosen. Brienne doesn't fit in the way that Catelyn thinks she should, largely because of how she chooses to define herself and what roles she wants to have in society. I love Catelyn, I also don't think I should have to preface that, but when Arya has all of this doubt built into her head throughout the end of Clash and A Storm of Swords of if her mom wants her back, we see why here in this chapter.

That feeling's probably imbued into aria uh because she's lived with catalan's systemic and inherent misogyny growing up and seeing how she acts to some of that we see why aria and brienne's chapters do push some of those limits of what you'd expect from 90s to aughts written fantasy in this extremely liminal space and their search for their identity and you know different disguises and identities they have to wear to navigate and survive in this space just as marjorie and sanza for that matter have to wear these disguises and navigate these spaces brianne has to wear armors and different sigils and vows and swords and oaths and aria it's all disguises and secrets

and surviving and faces and lies and soon coming to a book near you under your chair. It's murder sex. If you want to read more about Brienne and Arya, I do highly suggest take the time, hop over to our friend Lo The Links' essays on Brienne and Arya. They have a great essay about Brienne and Arya being gender outlaws. We'll link that in the description. It does come very apparent, though, in this chapter, just some of what's built into Kat that she just can't break out of. Yeah, and I think she does grow in it and we'll all be there like soon. It's not that much further from now in the next few chapters. But I think that's a great point of all this performance. And how, yeah, Catelyn, we see that there are times she tries to look past it, but she's still like, I don't know about that. I don't know how I feel about that.

Not just in this chapter, but in previous ones. And Brienne definitely is among those. And I think that's a great point to see that switch. And while it's not said as you're saying that that disapproval of when brianne sort of corrects her well and that will change that will change a little there there is a certain amount of respect that will come and then it will go because catalan is a zombie so yeah well anyway so renly declares Brienne the winner and then promises any boon she asks again feels very chivalric very legendary like something from the songs and she asks to be one of his

rainbow guard her pledges I would be one of your seven and pledge my life to yours to go where you go right at your side and keep you safe from all hurt and harm. And of course, it reminds you a little of, you know, the other Kingsguard and Dany's blood riders, perhaps. But it also feels kind of like what I would say Cat hopes to do for her children, but knows she cannot. Right? Because like Brienne, you know, if Cat can't keep her children safe from all hurt and harm, which is what she wants for them as their mother,

it's why she's dreaming of a past, like at the start of this chapter, where her family was whole and then Bran wasn't injured. How could Brienne even want such a thing for a king, right? Because to crown him is to kill him, so good fucking luck. If she could split herself into five and just go to all of them and save all of them them that's all she wants and she can't oh it's so bad it sucks so bad like naruto and could make copies of herself anyway yeah or loki if you guys are watching loki at home there's a distinguishment actually

but if you're watching loki you're thinking about it. So, yeah. That's really sad that this is what Kat is trying and failing to do. It is. They both, you know, want this for people that they love. And, you know, Renly grants this boon of Brienne, and then as she's, like, lifting her helm to receive the honor, Katlin's like, oh, okay, I see why everyone keeps yelling a beauty at her now. It's not, it's because they're all assholes. They're all being assholes about it.

Okay. Welcome to the Reach. Yeah. And where Loras is comely, Brienne is homely. And so Catelyn, as you were saying, right, you called this out earlier, pities her, thinking of, it's really misfortunate being an ugly woman. And I'm just like, I don't know, Catelyn, hold your tongue there for a

moment, because I'm looking at your life and I'm looking at Liza's life, and Liza at about Brienne's age was considered to be quite beautiful as well. I'm like, how did that turn out for both of you? Doesn't seem so fortunate, now does it? Seems in fact quite unlucky. But, you know. Careful what you wish

for. Yeah, I'm'm not gonna say the looks don't impact like someone's life right in terms of how people perceive them and like yeah it's obvious that like for brienne it does affect her quality of life her ability to enjoy it as you will see absolutely she doesn't look unfortunate here right her face lights up as she swears to Renly's guard it's a nice moment I mean it's her first vow you know it's her first here's the first one we get to watch it that's my baby girl I'm so precious love her so much you know it is nice too thinking about as we talked about the harvest feast and the pride that Bran felt atop his horse, right? Being able to ride in and not fall off. And Brienne, she's feeling pretty proud right now. I'm proud too.

She should be. My babies. At least a couple of them are flourishing for like two minutes. Until, you know, later. So Brienne looks down at Renly during this, a hand higher than him, though he's near as tall as Robert, so jot that down. For some reason, Sir Colin decides he should present Catelyn now. This feels like the right moment.

You know, everyone's really at a high. It's not. It's not. You're taking away from Brienne's moment. You know, I could talk about it for 10 more minutes. But Catelyn is like, great. I'm going to remind everyone my son is a king, too. Renly is surprised but polite, and his queen Margaery immediately offers her condolences for Ned's death. Renly promises vengeance for him, and again, Cat thinks that won't bring Ned back to me, thank you.

I only ask for justice. Brienne decided her new job also includes a hype man and she tells cadeline to kneel to king renly and call him your grace not my lord there's this great line here of um from cad and of the distance between a lord and a grace is a small one my lady lord renly wears a crown as does my son if you wish we may stand here in the mud and debate what honors and titles are rightly due to each but it strikes me that we have more pressing matters to consider and i'm like damn cat but also like her words here about titles are very interesting it reminds me a little bit of aries's riddle which does also come in the same book about power residing where men

believe it resides and yeah you know as she points out, the distance between lord and grace is quite small. With enough faith, with enough people believing with you, any lord can be turned into a king. As pointed out by a philosopher, you know, if northern independence was so easy, everyone would be doing it. And apparently they are.

They are doing it. And Renlyly to his credit handles this disagreement I think pretty well he just kind of laughs it off compliments Catelyn's words and then asks so like is your second to march on Harrenhal or what you know it's funny

because part of me is like I wish Catelyn had just responded to it I'm like I know right it just like smiled and said nothing else I'm just, I know, right? It just, like, smiles and said nothing else. I'm just like, huh. Interesting question. Question mark, I know. She sends back the thinking face emoji.

Thinking face emoji react. They should have, though. I mean, let's be real. You're all going to split up anyway. You should have just joined now, said you'd figure it out later, and just gotten rid of the Lannisters. All of you. All of you dumb bitches.

You should have been like, yeah, you're right. Let's all team. It's like Monopoly. You know, like, I always like to team up in Monopoly with people, make deals across the table, you know, totally crooked shit. But it's like, why can't we all just be in a perfect world no war in a perfect world we're all reasonable and choose peace man so i get that's not really possible we're not like a war analysis podcast obviously if you're this far 130 episodes but

uh we try you're an f-bomb podcast i'm so like self-conscious about it though i'm not i'll say it all day long i this is my space to say it openly it's just noticing when you breathe yeah this is definitely i don't know yeah fuck every other second you know there you go you shying away from it me leaning into it i don't know i do wish they would just give peace a chance but we know that's not how it goes and cat does know what's going on in the war councils but she's holding her cards close she's like oh i'm not in the war councils actually she she doesn't fully know as we learned this chapter anymore she used to know but that's you know up until yesterday she's been in some of them so she's allowed to say she's been in some of them but so so yeah here she is being a little coy

renly asks about jamie and cadeline reveals that he's alive and prisoner at river run and renly's like ah you're a lot gentler than the lion and lady oakhart does speak aries oakhart's mother she says the bar is low randall tarley thinks it's weak but he's a dumb bitch he also says rob should have come instead of hiding behind his mother's skirts yeah i actually almost forgot to include that line from randall tarley because i was like let's just talk about how i hate him but then i was like we actually need it because we need it here for caitlin's rebuttal of you know in, in response to Randall Tarly being like, how did Moira's mother skirts? She's all like, King Rob is warring, my lord.

Not playing at tourney. And I'm like, got him. Got him. I know it says icy courtesy, but I'm like, sick. Burn. Icy hot. Catelyn. Yeah.

Yo, you know what the Blackwater's about to do? Burn. Anyway. It is though. You sure she wasn't there? Itwater's about to do? Burn! Anyway. Oh! You sure she wasn't there? Uh-huh. Anyway. Renly takes this well, though. He's like, yes, yes, Catelyn, you're right, and he grins. And he summons a steward to take care of Catelyn's party's needs and comfort while she stays in his pavilion. He decides he's going to stay in Lord Caswell's castle since he was offered it,

and then he asks Catelyn to join the feast in the castle later tonight as a farewell. Renly makes a little jab at Robert. Robert tended to overstay his welcome everywhere and then takes advantage of the keep's woman, according to him as well. So Renly's like, ugh, Robert. And Renly then says, Marjorie is all the

woman I need and as he leaves Kat he's like just ask if you need anything I'll say it's kind of funny that he said if you just ask if you need anything right but ask doesn't come with a follow up of like and you shall receive you can ask all you want doesn't mean you're gonna get anything and it is kind of very robert right like he is very much like robert in that that this is caswell says to redley oh you could stay at my house if you need my lord and or my grace whatever you're fucking whatever your name is you're whatever you could stay at my house and my redley take whatever you want and my redly your relationship my brother and it has that joffrey at the trine lissanza vibes right when he forced his way because that's all he knew from his dad showing him having learned from robert and i also i also

want to say to an extent this is very you know how sometimes stannis monologues off on his own and stares out a window and he's like my brother robert would have done this renly's doing my brother robert would have done this in like a little more confident way but there is a little resentment right here in this moment uh but he's doing a lot of these moments too so it's like a renly thing and a stannis thing they're way set in their ways I mean Chloe would you say that Renly is kind of like an Ares and it's like yeah I could totally do that but better

no I would not he doesn't have what it takes to be an Ares next flimsy cold hard shiny plastic this reference will make sense to you all. But not yet.

We got surprises every now and then. Anyway, so as Catelyn enters Renly's Pavilion, she's like, what the fuck could I ask for? Like, this is the goddamn Four Seasons. And that's probably why their host moves so slowly. Kind of, again, like Robert's Fretnew, going to the north. That whole thing could have been an email, not a whole meeting. Anyways, Renly's armor stands guard at the door. But it's just the armor, right?

And I love that because considering that while Renly's in the castle, the armor is here in the king's tent, acting in his stead, in his place as the the king which is that hollow crown of renly's right it's perfect for anyone to slip into as we end up seeing at the black water yeah and i do like also that it's not on because it's not war you know, like that they're playing, so the armor's off. And it's like, Rob is in full outfit, you know, ready to go at any time. He can mount a horse and go fuck some people up. Renly's like, I'm just wearing my nice silk before dinner. I might change after that into loungewear. Right, and that the armor is so perfect, as we'll talk about in a moment, as opposed to what Brienne's fucking covered in blood.

And he's like, it's okay, Mom. It's someone else's. But he's traumatized. He's like, I don't even remember whose it was. Yeah. That armor is shiny, like you said. Shiny. Da da da da da da da da.

When will my reflection show? No, that's not what Catalin thinks. I was channeling the crab from Moana. Oh, yeah. We could go either way, truly. Could be either. Put it on your Catalin 2 playlist, everyone. That crab does feel like Redley, doesn't it?

The face of a drowned woman, Catelyn thought. Can you drown in grief? She turned away sharply, angry with her own frailty. She had no time for the luxury of self-pity. And yet, she must wash the dust from her hair and change into a gown more fitting for a king's feast well canada let me tell you a thing about a storm of swords or two uh i love this because again amidst of the harvest feast lady donella comes up right and

we do get some priest stoneheart stoneheart going on in Bran chapters around this. Lady Donella Hornwood brought no tale of knights and retainers, only herself, six tired men-at-arms with a moose-head badge on dusty orange livery. We're sorry for all you've suffered, my lady, Bran said when she came before him to speak her words of greetings lord hornwood had been killed in the battle on the green fork their only son cut down in the whispering wood winterfell will remember that's good to know she was a pale husk of a woman every line of her face etched with grief i'm very weary my lord If I might have leave to rest, I should be thankful. That's, I mean, that's

Catlin. What about one child, one husband? What about five children? One husband. Still one husband. For those keeping cat. Not for other people. I could try it. Yeah, right. J. Mal.

Well, anyway, it's dinner time. And Sir Wendell, Lucas Blackwood, and Sir Perrin Frey, and a couple of the other Highborns go with her to dinner. The Great Hall is small, but they are very courteous in this castle. They seat the Northmen among Renly's knights, which is good, because technically not all of them are knights. Some are, because, you know, the Northmen don't always do that. Cat is placed between Lord Mathis Rowan and John Fosway, the Greenapple Fosways.

They are nice. Brienne is on the far end of the high table, dressed in a knight's finery rather than in a dress, and she looks very uncomfortable and insecure about her appearance, and she doesn't really talk much unless someone asks her a question. about her appearance. She doesn't really talk much unless someone asks her a question. And it's quite pointed where Brienne is seated, because

it's so far away, right? If it's on the opposite end of the high table. Whereas Loras, who's of the same station, by virtue of being also in the Rainbow Guard, same cloak, right? He lost the melee today, right? He lost and he's seated right next to

the king and we know that that's actually obviously because like uh Renly and Loras are in a relationship and we don't really need to explain this to anyone because y'all have brains like this this is a reread all right and anyways y'all know what's happening at that table yeah we don't need to explain this um but Catelyn seems to pity Brienne for being an outcast and because of where she's seated, which is that she actually is quite aware then of the emotional impact of where you're seated, like what that can do to someone, especially someone who is clearly devoted to a family or a person or a cause or a king. person or cause or a king so i'm just saying that like if catelyn can show sympathy if she can show pity which i i would say actually pity uh denotes you know to what you're saying earlier chloe that she does think of brienne as an outcast right pity denotes a lack of same stature and and like that you are not equals right looking down on a person to an extent but if she can feel sympathy for what Brienne's going

through and pity, and if the titles actually aren't that important, really, I mean, it again goes to show that her grudges against Jon then weren't just about station, as people like to argue, which there's a portion of it of that, but there's no way that's the whole picture, right? If she can feel this way towards Brienneenne it's a much more personal insult where john is seated at that winterfell feast and that shows that then she was likely aware of how it affected john and just didn't care i have bad news it's not just that she was likely aware she put him there. Yeah. I mean, she decided the house seating. Yeah. That's definitely a lady of the house's job.

It's not Ned. And if it is Ned that put him there, it was because she asked him. It was fear. Yeah, Ned was like, Snow, Ned, snow! Sweating bullets. She's like, he can't eat with the family.

Robert cannot see him. Yeah, it does see him he looks like rhaegar but emo yeah but it's also part of that system i mean it's that's not proper that's not what southern lords would do that's not what lords would do you don't put them at the table in her mind like that's so her seeing brienne's down there it is really a thing to point out like she's saying oh that's too bad yeah she's like doesn't remind me of anything anyway there's a lot of food because the war has left the riches of high garden untouched and because this is also a food podcast we are going to read the passage. While singers sang and tumblers tumbled, they

began with pears poached in wine and went on to tiny savory fish rolled in salt and cooked crisp and capons stuffed with onions and mushrooms. There were great loaves of brown bread, mounds of turnips and sweet corn and peas, immense hams and roast geese and trenchers dripping full of venison stewed with beer and barley. For the sweet, Lord Caswell's servants brought down trays of pastries from his castle kitchens, cream swans and spun sugar unicorns, lemon cakes in the shape of roses, spiced honey biscuits and blackberry tarts, apple crisps and wheels of buttery cheese.

I'm hungry again. I'm'm gonna be honest with you i'm real hungry after hearing that i know i was like i had dinner already it does make me think of uh i know me too i'm like oh it does make me think of my leftovers in my fridge no it it actually makes me think a little bit of the uh the old wins a winner to wow coming up and there is a little chapter for a miss sansa i mean a miss elaine stone because they're different people some people think or something uh where there's a very very fanciful sugar statue and lemon cake statue-y thingy. We haven't really seen something quite so fancy as these beautiful cream swans, spun sugar unicorns, lemon cakes in different shapes, and tarts.

That's pretty elaborate. You know, the North has a big elaborate smorgasbord right now, but that is really elaborate stuff, real fancy. And it seems Lord Caswell is definitely footing this bill, right? And we don't actually know which lord Lord Caswell is, like his first name. He was just a lord of Bitterbridge. He's not talked about very often throughout the main series.

There's also his son, Laurent Caswell, that has a much more interesting story. Old Lord Caswell was Lord of Bitterbridge, and his son took a longsword that was made by the castle's armorer for the castle's armorer's son, Raleigh. After taking revenge by wounding Laurent, Raleigh actually leaves the Reach, goes into exile with the Golden Company. Is any of this sounding familiar, Aliana? Raleigh, Golden Company? Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, like everything that's going on here, right? Big, big Blackfire vibes in terms of like everything that Renly's doing. And I also don't want to take credit for that because I don't know. I saw someone else say it at some

point. Maybe it was you. Maybe it was someone else like on the internet. I saw someone else say explicitly Renly and Blackfire. And I'm like, not, not Renly Blackfire, not that he's Blackfire. I love that. But,

but, but like connecting them. And I, I'm sorry if, if you were the person. Just the way. Just let me know. Yeah.

I don't know if that one specifically was me, but the idea of like Damon Blackfire, right. And that like whole, like really charming starting a rebellion i mean especially the whole tourney atmosphere going on that is just too crazy to me i'm like so tourney uh a tourney is where rebellions start right that's why there's a lot of uh harrenhal vibes going on throughout this chapter and here especially alongside, of course, those two vibes of the Daemon Blackfire, this is totally, totally Aegon II stuff, it feels like, right?

Like him hosting this big thing in the West while Rhaenyra, of course, is on Dragonstone hosting her own party of trying to figure out how to take the throne. I also kind of feel like this is this this event at bitter bridge is going to happen again i think it's going to happen through agan six with that information about raleigh and if not him hosting his own little tourney here maybe we won't quite see that i don't know if we'll have time for that in the main series however um i think raleigh duckfield is going gonna come take this fucking castle back i think that's pretty uh that's a pretty big fuck you we also saw set up in this chapter red ronin who's also yes gonna get his ass beat and his castle taken from him so there's a lot of groundwork for

agan six here at bitter bridge uh and and who knows what the end game of how bitter bridge is involved is maybe raleigh could die at bitter bridge a very sad death just like another king's garden member rickard thorn died there with maylor remember this is where maylor got ripped to shreds during the dance they just kind of limb to limb to that kid it was pretty horrible um yeah there's there's a couple moments otherwise i mean otto sent ravens there immediately that was the first place he sent ravens uh as soon as the greens were like let's go this castle gets its shit fucked up by the blacks the greens oaf the white has it for a hot second it's kind of harrenhal in a way in the dance of the dragons so either way I think that the Aegon 2 to Renly pipeline for fake Targaryen king is

coming canonically you know Aegon 6 get ready you're about to be born bread in the fire of these two yeah for sure I mean bitter bridge is like such a such a telling thing right like reminds you of bitter steel and also yeah I think that thought of could Raleigh Duckfield die here is interesting could be where Raleigh has to roll over dead quack quack quackack, quack. Well, though the rich foods make Catelyn queasy, as you were talking about earlier, Catelyn cannot show weakness. So again, she's mustering her strength and courage. She does it, as we see earlier, by donning that gown for dinner. And even if these knights of summer are playing at war, Catelyn's son, as she's emphasized, is actually out there fighting a real one. war, Catelyn's son, as she's emphasized, is actually out there fighting a real one.

But this gown is part of her own performance of courtesy, and through that, it actually is her own armor. Same as we see other characters like Sansa use it, or even Cersei and Lysa, as we've discussed in previous episodes, because this is where, I mean, Catelyn's also doing war just in a different way by treating with the king. war just in a different way by treating with the king she observes the dinner noticing that loris has also donned a rainbow guard cape interestingly and though renly showers his queen with physical affection the person that he speaks and jokes with most is loris renly is also very gallant he never laughs too much or drinks too much and he's showing favor to people of all different social classes but many of his guests are not quite the same they are drunk they're lecherous they're over

confidently boasting there's also entertainment with this dinner there's a fool wearing a lion's head beating a dwarf and then when asked like why are you doing that the fool says that he's the king slayer and then runley laughs correcting him that no no no that's supposed to be the Kingslayer this is like a huge moment of just like lots of fun foreshadowing right Tyrion Tywin for example it could be purple wedding we get this again right we have a fun display of a mockery with dwarves and of course foreshadowing Renly's false king status and getting murdered by Stannis coming up right that's what felt really significant to me that the fool is beating the dwarf he's saying I'm the kinslayer and Renly's like no no you're the kingslayer and it's like oh that's funny because you're about to get kingslayed buddy like real soon that's a great point there are layers to this onions and yeah i kind of wonder

could this be foreshadowing other things as well but i don't know it could be also just the things that you said like that that that's sufficient but i don't know these seeds they're all still growing sorry rob sorry to me too they are and lord row who's there, despite his allegiances, actually gives some voice to his thoughts and to Catelyn's out loud while watching this display, this ludicrous display. And he says, they're all so young. They really are young, but most of all, Catelyn sees that they think it's a game. A tourney. A chance for glory.

Yeah. War will make them old. As it did us. She had been a girl when Robert and Ned and John Arryn raised their banners against Aerys Targaryen. A woman by the time the fighting was done. I pity them. Why? Look at them.

They're young and strong, full of life and laughter and lust. I, more than lust, and they know what to do with. There'll be many a bastard bred this night, I promise you. Why pity? Because it will not last. Because they are the knights of summer, and winter is coming. Lady Catelyn, you were wrong. Brienne regarded her with eyes as blue as her armor.

Winter will never come for the likes of us. Should we die in battle, they will surely sing of us. And it's always summer in the songs. In the songs, all knights are gallant, all maids are beautiful. And the sun is always shining winter comes for all of us catalan thought for me it came when ned died it will come for you too child sooner than you like she did not have the heart to say it nor the stone heart some could say it nor the stone heart some could say oh got him got him oh there's so much happening here i'm so desperately depressed thanks cadeline you know these lines they are boys drunk on song and story and like all boys they think themselves immortal that is a line you know that is

the feeling that is the feeling about the entire chapter in my opinion god i don't know it just makes me so sad because of course catelyn doesn't give us a reaction to it but lord rowan says many a bastard will be bred tonight catelyn haha you don't say sounds fun like i don't know it uh it has there there are just so many thoughts in this story that kind of parallel here coming back to those differences between how marjorie is seen by catelyn in this chapter and how marjorie is seen by Sansa later on. Catalin and Sansa do come to parallel thought right across the story, maturity level high. Sansa thinks they're children. They are silly little girls, even Eleanor. They've never seen a battle. They've never seen a man die.

They know nothing. Their dreams were full of songs and stories the way hearse had been before joffrey cut her father's head off sansa pitied them sansa envied them the songs eliana the songs yes yes it's absolutely it that that parallel is so strong it's so strong between like yeah the way that that catelyn and sansa react to them and their camps you know like the even yeah even though marjorie is seen as different by sansa who thinks she has a little grace and you know a little sweetness in her too and a little confidence but uh in that same kind of passage but that she thinks of these girls you know just parallel to these boys these green boys in the camp yeah i do absolutely even though brienne is being naive as fuck okay like very sweet brienne i love the songs too this

is total naivety total eyes big and heartful bullshit uh she we learned that one in brienne arc real fast don't we folks but that that triumphant little you know like you're wrong winter's not coming for us we're gonna be triumphant nights of summer forever you can't help but like that innocence that sansa-esque innocence that catalan does come to see in brienne you can't help but be like oh it's my baby adorable so adorable you're so cute and optimistic and you know, I was looking for gifs from the show just of Brienne's armor, just because

I was thinking about it. There's no signature blue armor in the show. What the fu- Justice! Armor as blue as her eyes! Where is the justice in this world, Eliana? Well, Chloe, wouldn't you have known that it's an edgy, serious adult show?

You wouldn't have known that if they had given her colorful armor. How could Zack Snyder's Game of Thrones do this to me? Jesus Christ. Gritty. Blue. Just kidding. It's an HBO Max experience. I'm looking like, did Brienne have a death wish what do you mean like it's always summer in the songs right and they're good

like Brienne were you planning to die in battle it's also very patch facey uh maybe that actually is intended since patch face is introduced right amongst these arts in this book but uh it does seem like a song like it's always summer in the songs

all nights are gallant oh oh oh like a weird face i mean on dragon stone so you know i think i've said this before and i forgot which episode maybe it was our northern independence one that that episode that i like have no idea that we did who knows i'm just gonna say it again right i'm gonna say it again all right because i'm fucking predictable and the whole thing of nights of summer is reminiscent of thomas paines like these are the times of tribe men's souls the summer soldier the sunshine patriot will in this crisis shrink from the service of their country blah blah blah blah blah um it's a famous line go look it up that's it i love that sunshine patriot that's her that's my sunshine patriot baby girl you go get them you go topple them

brienne yeah but she's not a sunshine patriot as we're gonna find out you know she's not a sunshine patriot, as we're going to find out. That's true. She's going to make it. I believe in her. And you know, for me, of course, it's just the boys of summer. I'm like, I can see you, armor shining in the sun. You got your horse in the back. We're riding on. Okay. Renly swoops in at the right time.'s like cadeline how about you walk with me he

doesn't quite have the robert baratheon cat down uh just didn't ever get it like robert had it but brianne says i must go with you your grace to protect you and renly's like i'm very safe within this castle brianne nothing ever could come of harm to me here. I'm going to be really honest, Brienne. The odds of that happening are maybe 99 to 1. Like, half a dozen. It's not happening, Brienne. You're crazy.

And then he adds, what could get me among my hosts? You know, like, one sword won't make a matter to save my life brienne if something were to happen she takes that pretty personally also she's like oh okay yeah she's pretty sad about it i'll just go it's funny because you know we know what happens we're like well i mean brienne couldn't have done anything against that anyway as we see so but also the one sword will make no matter. It also makes me think of like, funny, because everyone's all like, oh, what about that magic sword? Anyway.

Yeah. Or what's one bastard boy against the life of, you know, thousands. One single grain of rice could tip the scales. All right. I watched the cartoon Mulan version. The world is big, but little people turn it around the miserable it's the american version of it sorry oh my god well speaking of they're passing a slouching guardsman he suddenly like gets i was like oh god oh god i gotta be paying attention but runley just pats him like

it's okay puts him at ease right and and i get it i get it runley is charming right we see it throughout this entire chapter, like, he's very charismatic, he's amazing at winning the love of the people around him, and he does it by putting them at ease. He makes them feel comfortable being themselves and making mistakes. It's very much what you were talking about, right? Of Robert, like,

lifting his enemies from their knees, and he does it constantly on a daily basis and just smooths things out, right? He could be, be actually a very great negotiator if, you know, he actually bothered to think about it at all, but he doesn't. And so like, who Renly is, it's not enough. But again, I get it. I get why people like followed him. And I admire his ability to do that and smooth things over. and smooth things over. Because, you know, part of what I think is interesting about it is it does kind of seem at odds with some of the men that he commands, like the Tarlys or the other kinds of misogyny of the Southerners, though I think that's more like they fall out of those codes, right,

than the sort of patriarchal reassertion that we see in the North, because they do also have that kind of misogyny there too but it and that patriarchy there it does manifest differently right because rob has to constantly put on these shows of bravado these shows of strength to reassert his power as king and he does it through physical force and violence in order to command the northman's respect especially you know asserting that force directly onto the bodies of northmen, showing that he has power over them, of life and death over them, right? For example, biting off the Greyjohn's fingers.

He doesn't do it, but Greywyn does, but in a way it's kind of him. Anyways, or being the one to swing the sword when delivering that capital punishment onto Lord Karstark, or another demonstration of his power, right? This victory by capturing the Kingslayer. So Robb has to do a lot of, there is a lot of that within the North. So it is so interesting to me that Renly is able to win so much loyalty through this softer power, his own like personal charisma. It's kind of a softer power, like besides, you know, what the Tyrells offer, they offer both that hard and soft power in terms of the military and the food and resources, rather than like them actually doing any sort of violence or victories. Because Rob has to

do all this by winning his men's respect. Because what Robb has to do in terms of like trying to win his men's respect, it's not that far off from how the Iron Islands flock to power and what Balin has to do to assert his power. And also how Euron does it as well at the Kingsmoot, which in fact, even though, you know, Renly is very much Flash,

that is actually a little different, I would say, from Daemon Blackfyre in that people flock to Daemon Blackfyre because they saw him as a better fighter. They saw him as actually demonstrating strength. That's why he got the sword. Renly doesn't do all that. It's all just through his charisma. And they both do, as we were about to learn, they both do really value that sword. They valued the Warhammer, both Stannis and Renly, right?

Stannis spends his time searching for his magic and his sword. And Renly also here says, Robert's Warhammer won that war. That's what you need. You need power. You need sheer force. They do respect that but i think we see that total lack of charisma on one side of the spectrum a lot more than the other half you know as far as these two brothers go absolutely well as with when she first arrived

renly is totally trying to get in on the hot gossip right he wants to know if barriston is with them is he with rob and katelyn's like i thought he was with joffrey what the fuck are you talking about uh surprise no you all know why right you know what chapters he shows up in this is a reread selmy's going to the true king and renly had actually been saving brianne's cloak for him he's like he's coming one of these, but I guess today's the day he settled. Regifting.

And Renly says, well, I don't know. He never showed for me, so I assume, like, maybe he went to Riverrun. That's the only other king I know of. Interesting. And I'm just like, that was a real bold thought of you, Renly. Why would he go to you? And Catelyn kind of points that out

later on in this chapter. But you were talking about them looking for that sword, right? The sword being an important symbol of power. And that's what Barristan is here, too, because there's a part of me that sees a lot of this as, like, Renly again, he believes in the songs and the legends,

especially those of his older brother. We see later on that he thinks that he's reliving not only a better version of robert he thinks that he's a gun the conqueror come again and barriston selmy is that symbol he's a sword that confers legitimacy to many people because he also is the hero in the legends for many of these young men and boys we see brandy like oh my god it's barrist't sell me and jamie's still like oh it's barris didn't sell me i'm real i'm real sad that i disappointed him uh and i mean redley right he grew up like every now and then at court and around the legend and so of course he'd kind of hope for it but you know not to mention that for all this i mean redley's very well versed he's very well versed in the trappings of power.

Well, and that trapping of power comes right back with that Daemon Blackfyre identifier, right? Like, with the sword. That was what identified him. He had the sword there. And I think that's a really distinct point. I mean, he's the kingmaker. That's what Barusin is. He makes a king, is what Renly and Rob both view it as and their courts view that as.

As much as my personal opinion that anyone is allowed to have on a character that's not real and is made up can get some shit. I mean, I might not like him but you gotta respect the guy. I mean, he's had a crazy ass career forever. He's done

some shit. And unfortunately has not done some other shit. There was shit that he should have done that he did not do. I mean, isn't that all life is? Shit you should have done, shit you could have done. Shit that you should have shit, shit you held in.

And Renly thinks that the Lannisters are shit to let Selmy go. They should be holding him in. He might be old, but he's still good, Renly says, which, okay, see, and you all boo me. But he tells Catelyn the plan he

proposed to Ned the night Robert died, and Cat's like, oh, of course, my husband said no. She doesn't even need to be told. She's like, mm-hmm, we're aligned. He gives the excuse he didn't have enough strength without ned so he had to flee and cadeline's like hmm had you stayed maybe ned would have lived she thinks it she's like thinking emoji thinking emoji thinking face react

yeah renly then is like i liked your husband lady but he wouldn't bend. I'm like, what is it with all these Baratheon brothers? You know, I guess just these two, because Robert obviously didn't think that way. But like both the Renly and Stannis, they're very into just kind of semi-insulting Catelyn's like recently dead husband to her face. Yeah, you could be out there hunting her quail, first of all, like Wendell. Wendell was at least offering to go hunt quail. What a pleasant surprise, okay? A pheasant surprise, first of all. Second of all, hired.

401k. Hired. Second of all, it is a little uncouth, though. It is a little uncouth. It is true, though, that Ned wouldn't bend. I really appreciate that they she immediately in her head is like oh yeah no fuck this deal fuck them kings glad ned was the same goddamn way uh i do think that it's interesting that renly's like well your husband wouldn't bend like stannis

right who who was likely to break before he bends as well. So I'm sure Renly is used to that personality in that manner. It's interesting to hear him equate Ned with that. But again, Ned's stony exterior to everyone but us. Not everyone knows Ned is a bumbling soft mess of PTSD like we do. That's reader knowledge. So interesting. Very interesting. Even Kat doesn't know that.

You know? That could change a lot yeah yeah well runley then takes cat to the top of a not very high tower and tells her everything the light touches is our kingdom as she looks at fires as far as the eye can see and runley asks so how many fires you got at Riverrun and Catelyn just doesn't even bother counting she's like fuck this fuck this because she didn't come here to do math alright same and again Renly's fishing for info he asserts that with

the North and the Riverlords Rob's host probably has about 40k men and then Catelyn thinking face emoji gives up nothing because she's like actually we have less we have less than that because we actually goddamn fight battles. All right. So. Our bitches keep dying.

All right. Yeah, because we're actually doing things, getting shit done. Renly, though, doesn't know that. And he's like, well, you know, we have twice that number of men. All right. Plus the Lords in the Reach and the others in the Stormlands and in Dorne who have yet to answer his call. Not to mention my brother Stannis' forces. And I'm like, yeah, about that.

And Catelyn's also like, yeah, about that. She's like, it would seem you are the one who has forgotten Stannis, Catelyn said. More sharply than she intended, which I often also unfortunately do. She ain't wrong, dumbass! What? What kind of delusional little shitass is Renly Baratheon?

Renly waiting for Stannis to show up and support him is like Rob waiting for Theon to come back, LMAO. What? Like, y'all know they're not coming back. That was possible. That was in the cards a little that was far more in the cards we know stannis now this is a reread podcast get it together renly catch up with the books you have nothing but time in the afterlife okay

also this is amateur hour the the thought that he's like if i could unite dorn i mean if anyone of all of these houses that has suffered and that has like dealt with trauma and with war and fighting was going to align themselves with dorn it would have been absolutely no one else but the wait hold on let me check this the lannisters wait wait did i the lannisters okay glossing past did i pronounce that right the westerly wait hold on looks at notes interesting smudged on hand is that lannister interesting it's so dumb it's like you guys had so much in common if we could have just moved your nation you know like bikini bottom style we take it and we push it somewhere else uh as you say this it's funny that he's like i have twice that number when he doesn't i mean he is like maybe 60 70 ish right now uh 80 at his height definitely 80 at his height but that's taking him at his value and we

know he's a liar he he just like got caught up in the grandeur right he was all like yeah for sure these people of course they're gonna support me like he's like i'm the best and i get that he he was counting his chickens before they hatched you know and you know what that seems like a baratheon thing all right is stannis also counting some eggs before they've hatched thinking that they're his eggs at all maybe maybe that's just a thing that goes in this family also not knowing the the other their brothers very well as you said like why why would you think that stannis was going to support him it's i'm just like how little do you all know each other apparently very very little so anyway yeah and we see that continued because redley thinks that stannis is no threat i'm like

damn the lannisters are so scared of stannis though and he's like no one would ever back him as king but catelyn you know basically explains how primogeniture works, that, you know, Stannis is your elder brother, so naturally he would follow next after Robert if it weren't going to be any of his kids, and really just shrugs and is just like, tell me, what right did my brother Robert ever have to the Iron Throne? He gives some, like, rhetoric, right? He's good at that. And then just, like, glances on, there is my claim as good as roberts ever was and you know many people have written treatises and arguments about this and i i don't feel like doing it all right so no go look them up when all else fails what would stephen addwell say about it

is honestly something i would think he's done a good amount of these as essays. Check it out. Maybe we'll like that too. But Renly offers the North most of what they want. He says, there is my claim. Good as Roberts ever was. He says, lands, titles, honors. You can be a king so long as you bend the knee to me. Catalan's like, what? And he's like, yeah, all of us can be kings, lol.

That's not how it works, but, I mean, honestly, why not? You know, like, why not? They call themselves princes down in, like, Doran. You know what? Why the fuck not? Everyone can be a king. Out of respect, they hold the royal styling still. Everyone should be special if you deal with so much bullshit. I mean, that's the thing, though, is

like, Renly didn't really suffer a lot of bullshit other than being six and also being a Baratheon. But Catelyn asks, what if we don't? And he says, well, basically, and gives a big explanation, long-winded, and he's like, that means we're going to have a fight. Like that one time, a Stark king knelt to Aegon the dragon. And he's all like, get it, because I'm Aegon the dragon, I guess, question mark.

But then they're interrupted. Yeah, I was just like, damn, this boy just likened himself to Aegon the dragon. What's the dragon? Your piggy bank? Yeah, I was like, deers are pretty different. Your wife? I mean, I guess they got some dragon blood, and so he was like,

he just really, like, extrapolated that out there. He's like, it's me. At least when Robert said it, like, it's kind of almost believable, because man, that warhammer, but... Yeah. I don't know. know yeah but he just sort of bartered himself you know like you can't give yourself your own nickname yeah he just like

spun a story around himself where he is robert come again that that's what he did he's trying to spin this other narrative around himself as egg in the dragon but now i'm like no you were dame and black fire the whole time that's why you're at bitter bridge gasp gasp and also you know now they are besieged that's what's happened and runley's very confused because he's like wait tywin shouldn't have left harrenhal yet you know what it's not tywin these are no lannisters my liege it's lord stannis at your gates king stannis he calls himself now gasp catelyn called it called it good for her you know but you gotta give the girl's commentary something here yeah here he is it's stannis it totally again where's the the audio of matt from davos fingers when you need it

that's actually it right uh but you know honestly the the real the real lesson of this chapter is every everyone here needs therapy all of these people need therapy hardcore especially when like when you consider renly's talking to cat and he's like well my brother was this and if my brother did this then i can do this and it's like so you want to live up to your brother you know the whole baratheon thing and interesting but your brother didn't actually do a good job is unfortunately the final word so it's like in catelyn i'm sure catelyn probably knows at this point obviously because the realm is in disarray that robert didn't do a very good job he didn't give his one month you know what i mean

like he was just like three days three days well that's you know three days to live so i mean he checked out like nine years ago though eliana that's true yeah i'm like he didn't give his notice when he checked out nine years ago he just just stopped doing it. He still got paid and just stopped doing it. How do I get that job? Kings do that. You just gotta fight a war. Conquer a nation. Eat some good food.

And some good other food. Get fixated the rest of your life on a woman who didn't want you and who died and just project everything onto her. Easy. Easy. I could do this. Easy. I can do this. Yeah. I'm ready. Hand me my crown now.

Where's that northern crown? I'm going to risk it all for the crown, Eliana. I'm ready. Oh my god. To escape the normalcy of everyday monotony. Okay, everyone. And I think that's a great place to cut it for this episode this week.

Thank you so much for listening. I had a blast at spring break at Bitterbridge. I hope you all had a blast with us. I guess it's summer break now. Summer vacation. Yeah, summer vacation. The worst summer vacation ever. Well, just you wait, because Coachella next year is going to be great.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Well, you know, let us know. Let us know what y'all thought about this. Let us know who you think drops more F-bombs also. You can find us on social media at Girls Gone Canon, C-A-N-O-N, on Twitter. Send us a tweet or whatever, or you can shoot us an email at girlsgonecanon at gmail.com. Yes.

And if you are not already, please subscribe to us over at Girls Gone Canon on a podcast streaming service near you. If it's iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, Stitcher, Acast, Audible, Amazon. Listen, I could go all day if you want, Eliana, but I'm not going to because you can look it up at a local Google search provider near you as well. because you can look it up at a local google search provider near you as well yes and something else that you might want to look up is our patreon you can find us on patreon.com slash girls gone canon where we do have special bonus episodes for patrons five dollars and up this month is going to be in the song of ice and fire episode the last month was a his dark materials episode about the collectors and this month you know still Dark Materials episode about the collectors. And this month, you know, still in the works, still in the works. Play it by ear.

Play it by ear. It will be announced soon. And we have some cool ideas. So a couple of really fun A Song of Ice and Fire episodes to come for patrons, in my opinion. And for patrons, $10 and up. In the Thunder Tier and above, we do also have a Discord where you can come, hang out, talk to folks, and also once a month we do a Discord brunch slash happy hour on one of the weekends. And we have yet to decide the date for July, but we will announce that soon. Yes, coming soon. Patrons

can look for that update on patreon.com or in the Discord. As always, thanks so much for listening. I've been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana. We will talk to you or at you or in your ears next week. It is me at your gates. Oh my god, goodbye. Goodbye.