Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 132 - ACOK Catelyn IV

Episode Date: July 16, 2021

In which a, uh, crowning occurs... but not the kind you think. We're talking about babies. Shadow babies.  Links mentioned:  RSVP to the Skybound audio panel: https://t.co/rtcIwcflg0?amp=1  Lauren Shippen's site: https://www.laurenshippen.com/  Gabriel Urbina's site: https://www.gabrielurbina.com/  John Rocha's channel: https://www.youtube.com/johnrochasays  Wine on an Empty Stomach covers "The City We Became" by NK Jemisin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq9CQ7sj2ko  --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl] Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Reads A Song Of Ice And Fire, episode 132, Catalin in A Clash of Kings, chapter 4. I'm one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. And this week we have a very special guest. It's the Shadow Baby. Say hello. It's a Shadow Baby shower. Come on out, little guy.

Don't be shy. Our other, other other host the shadow baby just kidding i wish we should really try to get that guy cold anyway ah this is we should not be joking this is a very serious chapter with witchcraft afoot and magic and sadness and death and war and foreshad Yeah, it's a lot of foreshadowing. And I mean, some stuff is that is foreshadowed, right? I guess that that happens here. A lot of things happen here.

Yeah. And, you know, last week, we really took a lot of time to explore both Stannis and Renly and kind of what each one has that the other doesn't. And just shit on them. What's going on in those. Yeah, you know, like, girls, you're both pretty. Both of you are kings ladies sit down it's just plastic let's just break the little crown

and give each of them a piece that's what I thought that's literally the end of Game of Thrones season 8 episode 6 Bran just like takes the crown and Sansa grabs it from him and she's just like it's just plastic cold hard shiny plastic. Katelyn suggested it first.

Actually that's a lot about that's a lot about what this episode is actually. She suggests it. Now that you mention it. There's a lot of Endgame of Thrones to talk about. We'll get to that but first you're all dying to hear about our Patreon special

episode this month. That's right if you are a patron in the stranger tier five dollars here and above you get special episodes every month they are catered toward a song of ice and fire every other month and every other other month they're his dark materials this month is one of your other months and we are going to cover another free city another free city of the nine and this month we're covering lorath the islands in the shivering sea the northern coast of assos i'm i'm excited about this one this is a very mysterious kind of place and uh it it used to be ruled by three princes the harvest prince the fisher prince and the prince of the streets

so i'm sure we're going to find a lot of parallels to current a song of ice and fire to chat about indeed and it is a mysterious place and i it'll be a fun place to go to cool off during these hot summer months yeah this global climate change sis it is hot we are always looking for a way to cool off well another activity that you can do this summer is join our brunch slash happy hour which this month's patreon brunch is going to be as always on discord available for patrons ten dollars and above thunder tier and above it's going to be this coming sunday July 18th. So if you are listening to this on Friday, it's this coming Sunday. If you're listening to this, I mean, if you're a patron and you're listening to this ahead of time, that means that you have access

to this brunch. So please join us from 1 to 3 p.m. Eastern Time. And then, so we are skewing things a little earlier this month, because at 3pm, Thousand Eyes and One is covering The City We Became by N.K. Jemisin in their Wine on an Empty Stomach book club right after. So not only join us for games afterwards, let's all go join them and tune into their coverage of that novel. Yeah, I'm excited for that live stream and they they do have a lot of fun a lot of wine on an empty stomach gets a drink there pre-game we're gonna pre-game there's actually so much happening july 18th it's truly

christmas in july that should be good that's next year's brunch idea. Get ready 12 months from now. I've got it all planned out. I know what we're going to be doing that day. If you're looking to double team some content Sunday after brunch. Also, right before 3pm at 2.55pm going live is us? We did a panel on podcasting fandom and audio in general with some wonderful new friends from the skybound podcast network and other creations like gabrielle urbina the creator of wolf 359 and he's a writer on the bright sessions which eliana i'm sure could tell you all more she got very invested in the bright sessions i'm still kind of talking with some of them i i honestly want to start it now. You've got me going.

And Lauren Shippen, who's the creator of the Bright Sessions, was also on this panel, co-producer of the BBC cast Passenger List and more recently writer of Marvel's, the audio adaptation of the comic. So I was very excited about that because I have read a little bit of Marvel's. comic so I was very excited about that because I have read a little bit of Marvel's and John Rocha from the Cinephiles podcast Geek Buddies Top 10 and of course our wonderful friend Alexandra August of Game of Thrones Got Thrones podcast and other podcast productions the episode it was actually really fun it was really interesting to just meet other people in the medium but using it slightly differently from us and learn some of

the quirks that they're seeing in the industry. And I don't know, we had fun. It'll be going live 2.55pm Eastern Time. We will update this with a link and I hope you enjoy listening. Yeah, it was a great time and getting to see another side, right, of podcasting from people who are creating the sort of fiction that that fans interact with and so that was that was a great conversation and yeah i mean i've been checking out the you know their podcasts and i i have quite liked you know zero hours i need to spend more time with wolf three five nine but um zero hours is an interesting concept of like a bunch of different like short stories right or audio they're like audio dramas right um of apocalyptic events or events

that seem like they might be apocalyptic and then the bright sessions is is different it's a couple of people right special ability abilities in their conversations with a therapist. And it's building. It's interesting as things move forward. So, yeah. Real fun. Yeah. I'm excited to see how the panel came out. I don't know if they're going to chop anything. They're going to chop Alexandra.

Everyone will be surprised. Alex, cursing. We were good. Alex cursing. We were good. We didn't curse once. No F1 fucks. Yep.

Yeah. were good we didn't curse once no f1 fucks yep yeah which if you've been following along with that saga i bested eliana in fuck apparently yes on twitter only on twitter uh but i i've seen some nuanced takes in return our friend brian of farce had wrote in that yours are delicately done and kind of more carefully planned where mine are just you know, dropping like flies on the ground loudly. I thought it was that mine were like slipped in and then or something, right? Like sneaky, sneaky fucks. Yeah, yours are much sneakier. Which sounds creepy.

You're the shield. No, wait, you're the sword. No, you're the faceless man here. Maybe. You're the faceless fuck man. And then Thunderclap agreed with Brian Afaris on Podbean. So, like, interesting. Interesting.

Hey, and you know, here we are again, joining new friends together through Podbean comments this time. Really? Yeah. I think it's powerful. If you want to make new friends, you should definitely come check out our Podbean comments. The reviews, even the itunes reviews you can make friends there i'm hearing and discord of course discord's the easiest one probably

well other places you can make new friends is uh you know with other other stories to get into for example we do still cover the his dark materials books so we will be back at the very last week of the month, probably out the 30th, for public consumption with the Amber Spyglass, episode two. Episode two covering a few chapters. So I'm excited about that. Rereading it,

I haven't really gotten to give it a really thorough reread since my immediate second reread. And I don't know that I saw through all the tears I cried while rereading it so this slow reread is kind of what I needed I think yeah it is time to just sort of space things in between and space out the the emotions you know what's a good book when you gotta like read it to yourself one chapter at a time take some time to kind of resonate on it after maybe smoke a few cigars think about your childhood and how it's lost forever interesting uh this is that kind of book

you know so if you're into that check out the his dark materials series interesting speaking of innocence and youth being lost we've got a lot of that in this episode right we do a lot of that coming up definitely but before we jump into this episode uh we have this wonderful tweet of note from our friend sam of the rainbow guard in reaction to a clash of kings catlin 2 uh that was posted on twitter in regards to the the episode where brienne first makes an appearance and about some of his personal feelings regarding Brienne. Yes. Sam wrote, Girls Gone Canon caught me off guard in their Clash of Kings Cat 2 episode and had me tearing up as I drove because they used he and then they pronouns for Brienne. It was because in the moment

during the melee Cat reads the Blue Knight as a man. But Brienne as a trans masculine figure is everything to me and it felt so fucking validating hearing other people use those pronouns for them. I feel at home with Brienne, existing in the borderlands between binaries. Masculine but fanciful, longing for songs, naive, attracted to men but very queerly, that the objects of Brienne's love are Renly, explicitly gay, and Jamie, exceedingly queer-coded, feels intentional. Brienne is the teenage girl in love with the charismatic, popular gay guy at theater camp who's inexplicably nice to them. Brienne doesn't quite understand their own desire, doesn't

quite understand why they want that guy, and why that sexual desire fans the other desire. The desire that's always there to look and feel and dress and act in the way that feels natural but goes against everything they've been taught girls gone canon also brought up the question of does brienne have a death wish regarding winter will never come for the likes of us which of course there's no place in the world for brienne to die in battle memorialized in song they don't see a better alternative brienne knows that just just like brave Danny Flint, a song is the best fate that could await someone like them. The song resolves the problem of Brienne, because all knights are gallant, all maids are beautiful, and the sun is always shining. In death and in song, the ambiguity and discomfort of Brienne's lived existence melts away, because in the songs,

there are only gallant knights and beautiful maids, and Brienne is no longer responsible for trying to fit themselves into either mode. Categorizing them will be the problem of the bard writing the song. I loved this. This was just such a great thread to read and read someone's lived experiences and how they identify with Brienne. And I think there's just so much complexity to Brienne in what Brienne wants, right? Brienne wants to be able to be a knight, but to be able to love freely and to be able to be herself. And I'm really just glad to see this thread and think about these things from all different

angles that I might not have thought about it before. Yeah, same. I was really glad to see this come in the notifications and go through it so thank you so much Sam for writing all this and and for you know tagging us and making sure that we saw it yeah I mean what you said reading it through Sam's lens and experiences but also I mean I think some of this is just also really great analysis right in well, first of all, I love the comparison with being in love with the popular gay guy at Theater Camp. That was a relevant one. That was real.

And also, you know, the fanning of, like, the desire and where to fit in. But also, I mean, you know, we had kind of like raised somewhat jokingly, like, does Brienne is always shining. And I mean, we're coming into a part in these books, right? Where it's been hammered to us often that, wait, maybe not all knights are gallant. And perhaps the maids aren't always beautiful. And as we enter the long night, the sun is not always shining. So that gives us a moment in which there's all of this ambiguity, as you're talking about, and as Sam was talking about, where all of these lines between identity and gender and all those, what society asks of people, becomes really slippery and amorphous. And Brienne, I think, is such a perfect encapsulation of why that's important and why we can't live in songs and how much more beautiful sometimes reality is for that, better than the songs, even though the songs make it seem like that's what's perfection. Yeah, absolutely. This chapter also helps paint that, that thinking that all knights are gallant, all maids are beautiful, and the sun is always shining and having these categories that you fit your society to. And some might call it an optimistic look, right? But it's, it's not. And by living that way, and by categorizing that way, and by only, you know, perpetuating your society to be that way and accepting what fits into those very, very

linear square boxes and those little checks that that obviously doesn't work when society fails. Absolutely. And we're gonna learn that as we go along. As the books come out. No, wait, what? Oh my god. Okay. Thank you so much, Sam sam that was such a great thread to read again and i don't know i i don't want to blow it because someday someday in the next whatever 15 books we're gonna briefly coo in awe over our the single chapter that is in our brief lightning round

Sansa 3 Sansa pays for her brother's victory in the Lannister I mean Baratheon who said that Baratheon court definitely the Baratheon court sounds fake but sure Stan Baratheon Court. Definitely the Baratheon Court. Sounds fake, but sure, Stan.

That is what Stan is saying. Catalan IV. The worst part in this chapter is when everyone's like, damn, maybe Stanis was right. Catalan IV. A realization dawns on Catalan just as

a shadow baby dawns on Renly. Sorry, I just want to stop right there and like really appreciate this line that you wrote, Chloe, because not only is this yes what happens, but also the usage of dawn, considering the time that this chapter is taking place. Brilliant. Brilliant work. Thank you. You know, if I was writing this as a before this chapter, I would have said a crowning is about to take place. Oh. Okay. Okay, 401k. Okay. Okay, 75k.

Maybe we can use that in the notes. We can use that in the episode description. After the great crowding. Yorick has a friend for dinner. Catelyn and her small retinue have returned to the previous small village. The night is full and dark. She wonders if this place had a name.

It brings back memories of being a girl at Riverrun, learning about septs from Septin Osmond. A sept is a single building with seven walls and seven aspects. In Winterfell, Septin Chael hanged carved masks from each wall. In this unnamed place, there are charcoal drawings of the seven. Sir Wendell waits outside with Robar while Catelyn examines the faces. The father was bearded as ever. The mother smiled, loving and protective. The warrior had his sword sketched in beneath his face. The smith, his hammer, the maid was beautiful, the crone

wizened and wise. And the seventh face. The stranger was neither male nor female, yet both, ever the outcast and unknowable. Here the face was a black oval, a shadow with stars for eyes. It made Catelyn uneasy. She would get scant comfort there. She knelt before the mother. My lady, look down on this battle with the mother's eyes. They are all sons, everyone. Spare them if you can, and spare my own sons as well. Watch over Rob and Bran and Rickon. Would that I were with them. A crack ran down through the mother's left eye, made her look as if she were crying. mother's left eye made her look as if she were crying lots of great imagery here at the beginning of the chapter as always and you know coming back to a little bit of what we were talking about at

the beginning uh with sam's fantastic twitter thread is you know this the stranger as another way or another aspect coded within um the seven's religion the Faith of the Seven, that alludes the gender binary. And it's pointed that that's there to me in the chapter where Brienne starts to feature much more heavily and become part of the plot. And it's a shame to some extent because the stranger being outside of these expected gender roles compared to the other six aspects of the faith and representing death, I think it's part of what people like, they refuse to understand this. And that refusal to understand ends up with Brienne being mistrusted by so many for being that gender outcast. And, you know, it's something that Catelyn does come to understand and learn to go beyond uh and because

obviously brienne is very trustworthy maybe even the most trustworthiest ever and ever i'm it's true it's true and that those who put on airs of fitting into those societal roles like renly and the people in his camp right even though Renly also um doesn't in the way that he's supposed to because he is of course gay which is quite a shame that he has to box himself into this right um but the other people in his camp like Randall Tarly and all those they're not trustworthy those people Randall Charlie sucks. Again, and I'm sure that this will come back again. But it's also a reminder of Arya's storyline and where it's headed since this is a reread and we know what happens with the stranger and the faceless men.

Yeah, I find it so interesting that the stranger is so attached to so many feminine storylines. is so attached to so many feminine storylines right like we're seeing it quite often being just uh the stranger sansa's hair right that her hair net of course having the strangler one letter away from the stranger and aria with her soon to happen you know events with the faceless men and catalan catalan becoming the stranger the one that she refused to pray to. The one that, you know, is eluding her and she says, no, I'm not going to pray to the stranger. To the shadow on the wall. And the shadow on the wall comes

in the end of the chapter. It comes and takes Renly, so someone should have prayed to that one, huh? Oops. It's a Varys' riddle, come to life. What is power? Yeah, a shadow on the wall. Oh, fuck, not like that.

Not like that. Fairies, another gender outcast. We have shadows on the wall at home. That's what this one is. It is straight up like, no, we have a sept at home, Catelyn. You can go to this place with drawings. It's such an interesting medium. And I love uh of course

her prayer what she says spare them if you can and spare my own sons as well we're going to talk a lot more about some of the stark sister parallels this chapter but that does remind me of sansa and the black water white especially when it comes to the hound it does save him if you can there's a lot of i think there's a lot and we've been talking about it and it really comes through in this chapter too how connected sanza and katlin's storylines are in a clash of kings i think we've spoken a bit like overall maybe we haven't we should talk about that more eventually um about the connections between aria and kat but you know as people pointed out there are connections between Arya and Kat. But, you know, as people pointed out, there are connections between Kat and Sansa.

Okay, this is kind of off topic, but when I read that line of, like, they're all sons, everyone, and, you know, protect them because they're someone's son, I think of, like, when people are like, yeah, we have to protect these women because they're someone's daughter, someone's sister.

She's someone's daughter, bro. Yeah, dude. What if she wasn't? Yeah. Would she just be on Motherless? Anyways. So that's what I thought of. Anyway.

The female gaze. Yeah. I honestly, I think that I see a lot more of the Arya parallels usually. And I see a lot of the Sansa more with Ned, as we've kind of discussed with Eddard's chapters. But I'm definitely seeing a lot of Sansa's Clash of Kings plot specifically mirrored here. Even the terror and, you know, her soon trying to burn her mattress, right? Versus this terror of Catelyn hiding the Brienne murder and saying, okay, Brienne, well, you're wanted for murder now.

I think Brit killed a man with a trident, but please just go ahead and go on my peace and good luck and get this criminal Jaime Lannister to get my daughters. Yeah, it's some outlaw shit that's about to go down, but just the sneakiness, lots of the politics going on and the southern politics happening around them in this land that they don't want to be in and they just want to go home. It feels very significant. These charcoal drawings I find so interesting for a billion reasons.

The first one is, I think that this is not the only time we've seen them. We see it in The Sworn Sword, in Sir Eustace's lands. He has a sept, and his sept is a thatched one-room sept with crude pictures of the seven scratched upon the walls in charcoal. So that's out in the Reach. Not here, not here in the Stormlands, but not that far. and i'm not sure where this would be right because the closest place to storm's end is probably bronze gate so bronze gate has several smaller towns probably one of them uh it does interest me that summer hall is not too far though makes me uh makes me just stroke my chin and go you guys gonna ride by summer hall just for a look

at the ruins right now you want to just want to go? But it's not as close. I think they're way closer. I think the charcoal is really interesting because in the series, all the references we have with charcoal, there's only like 10 references. And they mostly have to do with fire, right? Charcoal being made from ash, from fire, from wood fits well. But charcoal is not really like a permanent medium right it's an easy to blend medium which kind of fits with the lighting and the faces changing in catalan's eyes it's

impermanent it's changeable it's constantly changing and i love that the flame right that the candle flame helps pronounce the crack across the wall that the mother's face is on it really highlights the idea of like a mother's sacrifice, whether we talk about Alyssa's tears like we have, or even Azor Ahai. I'm not, I'm not disclaimer a huge Azor Ahai person. You guys have listened to 132 episodes probably maybe-ish or enough to know. I don't talk about it constantly, but this comes to mind here. And the Hammer of the Waters also comes to mind we talked a few i don't know a handful of weeks ago back in catalan's plot about the breaking of the waters

and a theory that my nuclear bomb that's been on before has had about possibly the neck really actually breaking off this being what separates physically and literally the north from the south the breaking of the waters we learn a little bit about in Cat 8 in A Game of Thrones, about the hammer of the waters, a Westerosi legend of the Children of the Forest. The greenseers use dark magic. They slow the migration of first men to Westeros. Some stories claim they sacrifice thousands of people to the Weirwoods to do so. Kind of crazy.

But the hammer of the waters results in the breaking and shattering of the Arm of Dorne into the Stepstones and the Broken Arm separating Westeros from Essos, leading to the pact between First Men and Children. Some point later, greenseers try to use the Hammer of Waters again to break Westeros in two, working from the Children's Tower in Moat Cailin, but instead they create the Neck. working from the Children's Tower in Moat Cailin, but instead they create the Neck. Another reason that crack reminds me of that breaking, Moat Cailin, obviously, that's a very significantly close to Catelyn, to Catelyn, name. And also the next chapter after this, Jon is arriving at the Fist of the First Men. So it just feels like there's so much First Men and

Children of the Forest energy around, especially in especially the storm lands and especially with those cave drawings from season seven am i right interesting you know yeah i don't know catelyn seeing that crack across the mother feels like such a reflection of herself in this moment right she's physically separated from her children from her home the crack across her face measures that distance from her kids skewed across the broken and war-torn lands and that sorrow and grief is not unlike the physical hammer of the waters across the land the children had to you know separate to save their pack it's kind of all of this pain and sacrifice she's enduring and that her children are enduring for this cause for the north for that possible chance at a better life and it really makes me think of the nissa nissa myth

because in a way it does sound like her she did this thing why i cannot say and azor ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart it is said her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon. The mother's sacrifice is not so far off from Nysa Nysa's sacrifice, and I also think that that drawing is reminiscent of Lyanna Stark and her tears for her children. It feels prominent in this chapter. Interesting. Yeah, I love the connections that you've drawn out between the crack and what's going on with the desire for northern independence

right and and also how it ties into catlin's very personal familial story and with it being tears yeah it does remind me a lot of i mean catlin's fate right the very visible tears on her face as she scratches and claws at her at on down her cheeks right um those cracks becoming like cracks upon her face yeah and what you're saying about the charcoal it is interesting that they use this i think it can be you know there there's like fixatives but i don't know that they had them probably not during medieval times to make it more permanent but now i'm just thinking like man imagine being like the drunk asshole who stumbles into the sept and then accidentally crashes against the wall you're like oh god or oh god and then you wipe away the face of strangers on my shirt oh no and then like

someone comes in later i know and they're like oh we have to redraw them and then they do like the you know that now famous person trying to restore the well that's kind of depressing right because it's a cheap substance to come across for charcoal right like you could get it from most towns that have been burned and

sacked by war well the seven aren't faces on the wall they're inside of all of us they're in our hearts. They're the friends we made along the way. They might be. So the night is still, besides Sir Wendell and Sir Robar's voices outside of the sept, Catelyn thinks the gods even keep their silence tonight,

and she wonders if the old gods ever answered Ned when he prayed to them, and if they ever heard said the faces in the sept flicker in the light half alive twisting much more crude than the statues in the great septs with stone faces and these faces

could be anyone that's her in the corner that's cat in the spotlight losing her religion i mean it is kind of this is this is basically if i you know if we named our episodes if we had a naming convention where we just got to name them something fun like other podcasts do it would be losing my religion for sure actually that could just be every chapter for catalan i mean what happened to a crowning happens i liked i liked that concept alternate titles someday we're gonna do like deleted

deleted alternate episodes uh the father's face made her think of her own father dying in his bed at river run the warrior was renly and stannis rob robert jamie lannister and john snow she even glimpsed aria in those lines just for an instant then a gust of wind through the door made the torch sputter, and the semblance was gone, washed away in orange glare. The smoke was making her eyes burn when she rubbed at them with the heels of her scarred hands. She rubbed at them with the heels of her scarred hands. When she looked up at the mother again, it was her own mother she saw. Lady Minissa Tully had died in childbed trying to give Lord Hoster a second son. The baby had perished with her and afterward some of the life had gone out

of father. She was always so calm, Catelyn thought, remembering her mother's soft hands, her warm smile. If she had lived, how different our lives might have been. She wondered what Lady Minissa would make of her eldest daughter kneeling here before her. This is a lot more than what we've had previously on Lady Minissa. This is probably the most we get on her. It's probably the most that exists. And it's very sad, and it kind of reminds me of that thing about Stannis' sword last chapter, that when he put his sword away, a little bit of the light went out of the world, which was also metaphorical because it was like, there's going to be no truce, no peace.

But here it's a different kind of light that went out of the world. I mean, had she been alive and even to temper Hoster, what could have happened, especially for Lysa? You know, maybe these bonds could have been a little healthier. what could have happened especially for Liza you know maybe these bonds could have been a little healthier and I do think there's something in this chapter in this passage right here specifically that shows that Catelyn could have changed and grown and maybe learned and been more progressive and less systemically misogynistic in terms of Arya and Brienne which she does grow uh we do see her grow a little bit in terms of that for Brienne but not just in terms of them but even in terms of Jon she thinks of him as the warrior here even if it's in the same breath as Jaime Lannister she thinks of Jon Snow uh and I just think I don't

know I think maybe she could have she could have been better she could you know she could have gotten better about it if she had been given the chance and if she had been able to go home had they kept her hostage for some reason she could have she might have i mean it's not the worst to be said in the same breath as jamie lannister i mean she does have sexual tension with him um stop mommy porn jamie lannister porn which one do you want okay okay i remember reading and I was like, what is this? Someone's like theories right after A Game of Thrones came out. And they had theorized that Jon would like marry Catelyn. I was like, it's an interesting take.

It's an interesting take. It just might explain his first girlfriend's red hair that's all it might but I was just like I was just like uh well that's not what happens thankfully but I was like damn theories were always wild you know

they were always wild back in my day during the long wait yeah well no that was a short wait. They didn't have much time to come up with that. They had like a year, and that was what they put out. But anyways,

you know, it's interesting that she does put Jon with the warrior. I'm like, she doesn't even know if he's that good of a fighter. Just that she was like, yeah, let's send him to the wall. He should go there. But thinking also earlier earlier what you were saying about the azor ahai connections and you know you can really see that coming through here as the fire as you were saying you know it plays upon the different the faces right and they're sort of seeing things in a way almost seeing visions and

meditating on them and our friend alex whom we've already read quite a few of their letters in our coverage of ketlyn i was talking in the discord chat about how this scene in the set reminds them of the house of the undying and you know that makes sense both of those being in the same book but i also see a lot in here that reminds me of another house that's associated with death, the house of black and white, of course, in terms of like all of those change, those faces within these aspects constantly changing. Yes, the face changing. Oh, that's a really clever thought.

I didn't really put those two together. And I like the house of the undying in lieu of that too. I like both of those being associated with death and undying here there's a lot of different houses coming through here in this house of god well, Catelyn's mind

is full of all that she has lost her daughters, Rob's attentions and of course her connection with Brandon Rickon she thinks that she wasn't even with Ned when he died, and the set seems to swim around her, the shadows swaying as well. She hadn't eaten anything today, and she was starting to feel it.

She told herself that there had been no time, but the truth was that food had lost its savor in a world without Ned. They took his head off. They killed me too. They're killing me right now i know right you know people suspect that melisandre might be a fire white because she doesn't really eat or sleep uh and we see that

happen to barrick and cat of course and i i guess the ice whites too because they don't really show any sort of need for that as well but as we've discussed the past few chapters cat's loss of appetite as life begins to lose its luster for her and the call of death i mean it really starts to hammer home like was she not saying that like you know grief is people go through grief right but there's there's a lot in there narratively that kind of ties this theme of like was she already dead you know i mean she wasn't but you know what i'm saying absolutely there are a few other moments in this chapter especially that just show she's living a lesser quality of life and it feels it definitely feels like it's just fleeting right like life is leaving

her and her enjoyment of it she's turning grayer and sadder and desperate yeah and it ties it ties well with you know like we were talking a lot about the connections between kat and dannder and desperate. Yeah, and it ties well with, you know, like we were talking a lot about the connections between Kat and Dani in the first book, right? And it ties into what Miri Mazdour says about Drogo's body of like, see what life is worth when all the rest is gone. And I mean, Miri Mazdour has felt that sort of lifelessness. She feels a sort of death as well um in her grief seeing

the deaths of all of her people and the sexual violence that she endures so yeah and as if this guilt and this like sadness for life isn't enough for cat now the torch spits behind her and the charcoal face on the wall transforms into her sister Liza your sister yo and then the eyes change though the eyes and the light change they become harder than Liza's and she sees Cersei's eyes Cersei is a mother too no matter who fathered those children she felt them kick inside her brought them forth with her pain and blood, nursed them at her breast. If they're truly Jamie's. Does Cersei pray to you too, my lady? Catelyn asked the mother. The crack is still there across the mother's eye, and she thinks that even Cersei

could weep for her children. What a nice, generous thought. I i mean that's pretty generous she remembers sept and osman telling her each of the seven embodies all of the seven the crone is as beautiful as the maiden the mother could be more fierce than the warrior if her children were in danger i love this especially given cersei's past right and cersei also who experiences a lot of that similar gender binary and being stuck into it from society and wants to break free and has gone out dressed up in clothing to you know appear as a boy and a lower class boy that worked in the castle just so she could meet Jaime also it was a little bit for sexy but it's just interesting to see these connections between them and that even Catelyn in her grief at losing her lover and vice versa for Cersei in her weird twisted way and Catelyn, you know, protecting her children, especially for the worst to come in a storm of sorts for both of them for their children. Yeah, and it is interesting because Cersei does have to survive her child, right?

Her firstborn. And Catelyn doesn't because she's only alive for like, what, two more minutes? Yeah, she's like, you're gonna have to fucking kill me. And it breaks her, right? Because for Cersei, she wonders, would she weep for her children? And Cersei does. She really does. She's changed after Joffrey's death.

And interestingly, that's when we start first getting her POV and get to know her. But prior to getting that intimate look into Cersei's life, it's fascinating how for both Robb and Catelyn, Cersei is their main villain, right? And she's framed as such through Ned's chapters as well. So, like, she definitely killed Jon Arryn. And Cersei's like, lol. I don't even care aaron and seriously he's like lol i don't even care about that man she's like who and like you know she did have a kind of a hand in robert's death but also i'm just kind of like it's kind of robert's fault too and he shouldn't have fucked around he wouldn't have had to find out i mean yeah and also i mean if he you know she just gave him stronger wine but i'm also just like i don't know robert like what if like you trying

to go after that boar was also a bad idea like that's kind of on you too there's got to be some personal agency there anyway um and cersei did have like a hand in ned's death more of just in his imprisonment because cersei very much did not want ned to die as that you know jeopardized the fate of circe's lover and all that but anyway it is interesting to see you you said it was a generous thought and it is a generous thought caitlin trying to find the humanity in her enemies like circe's built up to be somewhat of this like mean villain towards this part of the book and or the story and you know maybe she's trying to find that humanity in cersei out of grief and compassion and empathy but i think there's also an aspect of trying to find that vulnerability in cersei like where is her weak

spot is this someone that we can go up against and and really win and it's especially interesting as catelyn later on loses her own humanity very very literally Catelyn the chosen undead in Dark Souls it's a thought um but despite how much these chapters with Kat and Rob and even Sansa right especially in this book uh depict Cersei as that villain Sansa's are the ones that I think give her the most depth at this point in the story and show the pain she's in. And then in Storm, you find out like, wait, so Circe didn't do all of those things. That was a bunch of other people.

And you find out that she is just as much a victim as she is a villain by feast. I mean, she's still a villain in many ways. First of all, she killed her friend for being into her checks notes, into her brother. Her twin brother. This is why she killed her friend as a

child. And another thing is, you know, whereas Catelyn finds meaning and joy in motherhood, you know, really embodying those gender roles, and she kind of yearns to be of service to her children, right, to be there for Rob. Circe doesn't really give a fuck what her children think. She's also really weaponized motherhood into a sort of revenge that she takes upon Robert, that she takes upon the other men in her society for trying to pigeonhole her into this.

And it starts to rear its head for Catelyn. In this chapter, she begins to piece together the same mystery that her own husband did. And so coming back to that relationship between Cat and Ned, it's another interesting parallel, right? That brings Cat close to her husband besides retracing his steps at Storm's End, you know, following and picking up his Detective Noir story.

And where Ned confronts one of the twins, again, Cersei, Kat gets her own confession out of the other one. But through that lens of motherhood, right? Because of what happened to Bran and wanting to understand what happened to her child whereas for ned it's more about his love for robert and a general sense of protect the kids so yeah yeah they they both have this search for truth and justice and they find it in different ways that both bring them to their doom right and cat And Kat's descent here, I love what you've said about Cersei weaponizing motherhood into revenge because that is what Kat's end plot is, right? She dies and is brought back

and she weaponizes motherhood into revenge while being undead. She's mother merciless. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's like so sharp and significant that she just becomes this undead revenge killing machine and i think there's also something in this that as we keep going here she thinks about robert's visit to winterfell and she kind of thinks about well robert didn't really give a

shit about joffrey if he had known he were jamie's he would have been put to death with his mother and not many people would have condemned the act because she thinks bastards are one thing but incest is monstrous unless you're a Targaryen but it's monstrous she thinks and in a way I wonder is this also her trying to find some sort of semblance of like maybe justification working through forgiveness or trying to to humanize bastardy john snow too you know uh if cersei could have these royal bastards with her kin and this ferocious protective motherhood could she make do with whatever this mysterious woman who bangalang nedlang-ned and produced Jon Snow? Could she, you know, somehow come to peace with this idea of that bastard if something so awful as these

royal abominations exist? That's an interesting question and an interesting thought that it's her way of trying to, yeah, humanize Jon Snow in her mind because, yeah, I mean, he's not Joffrey, right? We see that so clearly that they're so different and she's like so the thing right that cat is supposed to value which is a true born or like the royals right that that's all now just been turned on his head she's just like wait so that's not real and so the crown is made up yeah and she's like well at least john's not a bastard as far as she knows and i mean he's he's not he's not he's not i know people theorize that at least john's not a royal bastard eliana well no at least he's not a bastard board of incest is what i was

gonna say and then i mean he people theorize that uh that eliana were a thing and no, that is not what happened. And yeah, so Jon's not that. And if she sees that these royal bastards, right, Joffrey, he's the embodiment of what one of her fears, right? A

bastard stealing the house seat. And also Joffrey is very clearly a little shit. They saw it there. They saw it when they were in Winterfell because Ned's about to say, he's like, I don't know, that Joffrey boy seems like he sucks

and Catlin knows because she sees it, so she interrupts him. She's like, a nice young boy. She's like, he's a prince. She's like, it doesn't matter if he she's like he's a prince she's like it doesn't matter if he's nice he's the prince but now she's probably just like well at least john's not like that he's a warrior but i mean she still she still obviously has her her issues with him because we see those anxieties come up again during the signing of the will yep the one thing she just

couldn't get over she tried she came close i think she came close she could have almost done it but if only she would have just thought about the one mother that she hasn't thought about i guess because she doesn't know she's a mother i digress that would solve so many issues she actually though like right here she realizes it all she realizes ned must have known and that before him john aaron must have known and she's like oh no wonder the queen killed them she just kind of like sums it up it is like yeah that makes sense this tracks wrong but right conclusion in some aspects she wonders if she would do anything less for her own children, feeling her fucked up hand and thinking about

Bran and realizing, oh shit! Bran saw something. That's why they tried to kill him. Yep. Um... That turns out to be wrong too, but for different reasons. Um... Sometimes you can just chalk stuff up to, like, simple

stupidity and foolishness, turns out. To be fair, it is kind of semantics that it was more just because Jamie was trying to nut, but. Oh, oh, no, I meant the cat's paw. Oh, yeah, the cat's paw. No, absolutely. Sorry, I thought we were thinking about, you know, Cersei and Jamie sex. That part, yeah, it was a little, it was a little of both, but then also then the cat's paw the follow-up that was just that was just foolishness yeah it's just you know a lot of a lot of foolish things foolish antics and you know everyone thinks that the landisters are so competent you know here they're like wow they took out all these people but first of all

they failed to kill the little boy second of of all, they didn't kill Jon Air. Not very competent administration. You know, it's like if the Schmulintons, which is a name I'm using to rhyme with a popular family in the United States, you know, if you get on their list. But Cersei, like, Cersei's the closest one to competent because their entire family issue is, like, they do it all for the nookie. Each one of them. Tyrion, nookie. Cersei, nookie. Jaime, nookie.

They gotta get it together. They gotta stop putting the pussy on a pedestal. Poor Myrcella. She could have risen above. I believe in that girl. Those poor cats. Pussy. Lost and weary, Catelyn Stark gave herself over to her gods.

She knelt before the smith, who fixed things that were broken, and asked he give her sweet brand his protection. She went to the maid, beseeched her to lend her courage to Arya and Sansa, to guard them in their innocence. To the father she prayed for justice, the strength to seek it, the wisdom to know it, and she asked the warrior to keep Robb strong and shield him in battles. Lastly, she turned to the crone, whose statues often showed her with a lamp in one hand. Guide me, wise lady, she prayed. Show me the path I must walk, and do not let me stumble in the dark

places that lie ahead well praying for her daughters with aria's future storyline again as a faceless man looming over this chapter not just as death but also as an assassin who can slip into places kind of undetected and out of them or also don different faces like the shadow of course at the end of this chapter who slips in but not like the shadow which cannot change face apparently and just looks like Stannis

and of course also praying for Sansa who has a chapter right before this one and whose fate at court is so tied to her brother's victories which is of course entwined with Kat's own chapters and storyline. And Sansa's beaten for it. And as Chloe's pointed out, you know,

Sansa's bleeding for the North and Catelyn's praying for the innocence of her daughters, for them to be guarded. And it feels like those prayers are only half heard because the girls, you know, they keep their lives, but a lot of the horrors that they witness and endure at heron hall were you know ironically cat was like we should not we should not go to heron hall and also at king's landing where sansa is it chips away at both of

these girls innocence not unlike catalan's life being chipped away at right now, right? Like we discussed. Yep. Sad times. The pack is not surviving. Not good. Not good. But better than the Baratheons. So much better because, well, footsteps come behind Catelyn and Ser Robar Royce has come to bring her back to camp. They ride in silence to Renly's camp

where ranks of men and horse are armored in darkness. Some amazing prose going on here. Banners are to her right and left, but in the pre-dawn gloom, they just look gray. A gray army, Catelyn thought. Gray men and gray horses beneath gray banners. So much gorgeous imagery going on here, and it really brings me to Eddard 10 in A Game of Thrones. It's described a lot like Ned's fever dream, and it makes that crying cracked mother imagery for Lyanna that much more prominent when you think about the chapter. Ned had known their faces as well as he knew his own once, but the years leech at a man's memories, even though he they're said to have shadow spears. I love just this imagery of the gray shadows. And we have this description of them. The long ranks of men and horses were armored in darkness.

Where Storm's End stood was a deeper darkness, a wall of black through which no stars could shine. The shimmering silken walls seemed to glow, alive with emerald light. The green light shone strangely, so dark it drank the candlelight. He'd have us charge into the teeth of the rising sun. Drink the candlelight. He'd have us charge into the teeth of the rising sun. This imagery is so bold, so, like, prominent. Obviously, it's a lot of imagery about what's about to happen with the actual shadow baby.

There's a good amount of imagery here that is straight up Blackwater, right? This is straight up emerald light and glowing silken walls. right this is straight up emerald light and glowing silken walls i would argue it's probably foreshadowing for another event where a city is going to glow with emerald the same city you know but later uh with wildfire the wizard of oz oh the wizard of oz look behind the curtain look under your chair look under your chair and i just think that this is total other imagery right like if this isn't white walker imagery imagery for the battle for the dawn imagery for the longest night come again i don't know what will be this is soldiers cloaked in gray shadows armored in darkness pre-dawn gloom walls of darkness no stars shining this is uh the first mini long night we'll see and there is a lot of gray mist in this description there's a lot of gray mist

we've talked about how that can be blood raven peeking in on things and it's interesting to think that blood raven would be watching stannis kill his brother on purpose. Yeah. Huh. Interesting. I remember dabbling in that. Anyway. Yeah, I think I love what you pointed out with the imagery and it is very, very reminiscent of how the

others and the whites are described. But it's also, you know, gray in the way that George is interested interested in those in between areas of morality you know he loves he loves thinking about that and talking about things being gray and and that both the armies have their intentions right and their reasons for being here and so that that is part of what makes some of it less black and white in terms of morality. It's either a rotten onion or it's not, Eliana. Get it right. No, it's not because I'm not made of money.

I'm frugal. I'm like Melisandre. What does she even know? She doesn't even eat. How does she know about onions? Anyway. Maybe she's never had a good one. That's true. Maybe she's never had a good one. That's true.

Maybe she's allergic to them. Anyway. A whole new backstory. Torches move across the field, marking Lord Stannis' camp, but Renly's shadow knights wait in silence. Which is kind of funny when we think about the imagery that Renly's knights are the ones that are described as shadow knights by Catelyn's perspective here. Because it turns out it's the other side that has the actual shadow knights. I didn't think about that. Yeah, it's

the use of light is so strongly done. It's really well done. He takes that light right out as the shadow shows up and poor Renly. Candles are glowing, faintly emerald and two rainbow guards stand at the door sir parman in his purple sir emin in yellow from not a cast with the pavilion within the pavilion brienne armors runley and lord tarly and rowan speak of battle tactics

it's pleasantly warm too warm if you know what I mean, with a dozen small brassieres. And Catelyn tells Renly she must speak with his grace. Yes, she even goes so low as to be like, I must speak with your grace. Please just stop being an arrogant ass, Renly.

Just for a moment, let's just call it off. And he's like, no, in a moment. Brienne's fitting me with my deep green armor still. And the armor is pretty, for what it's worth. It's inlaid gold, green leaves, winking back at them. So we haven't dwelled on this much in these chapters recently, but Rob partially does send Cat away, of course, to get her away from the camp.

But also considering his other option, right, the Grey John, Cat is a strategic choice to treat with renly just as cat was a strategic choice to treat with walter fray because she is still held in high esteem as a political envoy even more so now as you know the mother of a king and we see that in how she tries to flatter uh renly right by giving him the honorifics associated with the king she didn't do it with uh last chapter um and she didn't do it with the Renly last chapter or before right because she does have a king that she answers to but it's kind of funny that she uses this you know that

you're greys and stuff right when she's about to ask him to hey but what if we all stop being kings yeah and you brought up the great john which reminds me i mean this is kind of what she tried for right before they all crowned rob uh and and to be fair there's nothing that gets a young king to do something more than saying bet you won't you know that's also true especially seeing the way that they've been acting yeah they've all been pretty textbook young boy king yeah all of them none of them have been well i mean like stannis and runley you know in the last chapter none no one's shown themselves to be very great politicians except for catelyn being like, I have an idea based on history that is not kill your brother. Let's think about it.

But anyway. Mathis and Tarly are also really bad influences to have around right before battle. They are. They're not great. They're trying to convince him to attack before dawn and to break what he said he was going to do to Stannis. And he's like, no, I won't have it said that i won by treachery we're doing this right and randall and mathis are like but stannis chose the time so it's likely he plans to use the sun to his advantage in combat to blind us

and runley's like no no sir loris's skills are going to break them right away and chaos will ensue when he does and we'll get out easy peasy chaos will ensue at some point not not for the reason a lot of people think but you know i do appreciate renly's faith in loris you know jamie saw loris as a bit kind of like his younger self and to some extent it feels like renly sees loris the way maybe circe sees jamie as a knight who protects them and a hero who always wins but i feel like lores can only do so much i think you know tarly and mathis have a have a good point but in terms of what stannis is planning i also think you know it's still

the odds are still very much against stannis regardless so like whatever is it worth breaking honor for for and i at least friendly kind of understands the the look or the the most superficial understandings of honor and doesn't do this against stanis because he says that would be treachery uh because that is a point that's raised in the previous chapter with sansa right that the westerlands are accusing the northern camp of using treachery, of using sorcery. So it's kind of funny that Renly ends up actually being the honorable one here where Stannis is using

sorcery and treachery, right? Which I know people will argue that no, it was justified, but seems kind of like a dick move to me. But also, I mean, like, whether or not it's right that both

stannis and runley kind of stick to this or that runley does right as part of i mean the lannisters again we've said this before have no such scruples i think but i do think i do think that i i mean that in terms of like using treachery because i I do think Tywin would have waited until this time said, because also pride. He wouldn't be like, oh, yeah, I needed this to win on the battlefield, you know? Well, and to be fair, Stannis was pushed to the point of Tywin with the Red Wedding, right? the point of tywin with the red wedding right uh it is similar in scale of you know like i'm gonna save thousands of lives by doing this thing by killing one man and it honestly the amount of damage you do to the psyche of the people you're trying to win over to your side alone and there is of course the contention point that stannis didn't know what was going to happen, people will say, but he knew something was going to happen.

He just didn't know what that something was. He knew something negative was going to befall Renly, you know? Yeah, and I mean, like, he was just being irresponsible. I mean, like, Stannis should have pulled out. I'm sorry. Maybe Stannis should have pulled out. I'm sorry. Maybe Statham should have pulled out is what you mean. Holy shit. Damn.

Damn. Okay, you went there. All right. Yeah, I think it's a little naive, obviously, for Stannis to play with fire and think no one gets burnt. He's a big boy obviously he made his bed he has to lie in it and he will continue to do so uh but renly it's just so sad because he just keeps being like well when i win this is gonna happen and this is gonna happen and i won't have it said we were dishonorable because he wants to win like robert did you know by being

able to pull your enemies off your knees and shake their hands and say uh had a good run being a rebel but why don't we all join up and go save the day now and he wants to be loved and i will say he should have listened to these senior members because obviously stannis has to do something obviously it's going to have to be something discreet in order for him to do it but obviously stannis as a guy that's been in a war or two now knows that he's fucked dude there's like so many people on their way to kill his so very few people yeah so redley ridley probably should have considered that mathis and co like know what they're saying here that Tarly knows what they're saying

because they all are probably sitting there going, hey, this kid's paying us good, but my God, Stannis isn't stupid. That guy's gotta know he's fucked, right? He's gotta be planning something. Unfortunately, it's like there's no exit. You know what I mean? They don't know that he's gonna

die no matter what. That's true. Randall's also in the wrong here, too this was this was randall fucking tarly and their idea they're like yeah you have to you have to fight stannis now or else they're gonna people are gonna think that you're super weak and i'm like there was a good call here and that was not it was go to king's landing and then all of this could have been avoided and we wouldn't have to like be potential Kinslayers because, I mean, it is kind of... It's the damn ego. It's like a pretty shitty move

to also be like, yeah, we're gonna kill my brother in this battle and to be like, by the way that, you know, like... I forgot who, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry whoever said it. But someone, you know, in reaction to the previous episode, said that Stannis, you know, extending those really, really good ass terms.

Maybe it was Maddie. Those great terms to Renly is also, I mean, that's also emulating Robert, right? Because you were talking about how Renly wants the victory like Robert and wants to be the one to bring enemies to their knees, from their knees to their feet, like Robert. And that's what St's those generous terms for that yeah yeah that was his display of robert and yeah they uh their egos got in the way i mean if they hadn't let those big old egos start flapping around and get in the way they could have done something here they really could have done something but they both could have been loved if they had just said i love you to each other oh my god i know that sounds dumb but what if that's kind of i think that there's actually truth in what i

said i do think there's a point to that like i think that is kind of the point i don't have siblings eliana doesn't have siblings we don't want them please don't give us your siblings we don't want them we can't actually speak for siblings in the united states in the world in the united worlds of the galaxy that we live in in the united nations look new countries pop up every day in our statistics and i'm just waiting wait until elon musk's gets to his moon or whatever every day well there's something really interesting going on almost performative brienne is strapping renly in still right and this is the big the big to do before dawn before the whole shebang goes off so brienne is strapping him in very ceremoniously and Renly commands them to see no insult is done to Stannis' corpse

he is his blood and he will not have his head paraded on a spear yep making a lot of terms for a guy that's been getting dressed for 25 minutes for battle you know I digress

I mean it is very disrespectful as we end up seeing in the the next book yeah i mean and of course he won't have his head paraded on a spear runley's armor is going to be paraded though still and of course i find it so fascinating that he just keeps making these comments of all the things that's about to happen to his ass. Yeah. Then, of course, Lord Tarly's like, what if he yields? What if Stannis yields?

And Rowan and Renly are like, ha ha ha ha ha ha, belly laugh. When Mace Tyrell laid siege to Storm's End, Stannis ate rats rather than open his gates. Near the end, Sir Gawain Wilde and Three knights tried to steal out a postern gate to surrender. Stannis caught them and ordered them flung from the walls with catapults. I can still see Gawain's face as they strapped him down. He had been our master-at-arms.

Feels like there's something there that some of these people that lived in the castle and worked in the castle and were like basically second family members for these parentless children seem to be the problem here that they're like, oh, I could see their faces in our heads. I mean, the betrayal with me. Yeah, the betrayal of people who have worked in the castle are kind of like your family members, right? have worked in the cast and are kind of like your family members right i think it ties in well with what happens in theon's storyline in just a moment where he's going around like just fucking shit up for the people that he grew up around and he's like gonna do a bad job beheading you now uh yeah absolutely that and of course courtney penrose uh yeah that guy that was That was really the one I was thinking, but I didn't think of that. There's a lot of that in this book, apparently.

Yeah. And so Rowan comments, he's like, I don't remember men being hurled from the walls. And Renly says, that's because Crescent told us to keep them in case they were forced to eat their dead. No sense in flinging good meat he said had the onion knight not delivered onions they would have had to dine on corpses it was a very close call too close for some like gowan wild who died in his cell wild um so i do believe parts of the story that that gowan wild tried to sneak out and starved in the dungeons and was potentially kept to be eaten i'm unsure about whether or not sanis ordered gowan wild and them flung from the walls or not or if it's something like renly said for

shock value or i mean it it could be a half truth right like the way that it's delivered which is why rowan's like i don't remember that happening. Because that makes it seem like it's a lie, right? That makes it seem like, Renly, you made this up to make Stannis seem bad. But, I mean, it could also be the truth, right? He says it for, you know, that shock value, and

Stannis maybe did order it. He doesn't say Stannis did it, and then we find out what really happened. But, yeah, it just kind of makes Renly seem even more gray. And that threat, though, of cannibalism during the siege does ring true to me. It does seem like something that Stannis probably did because it creates this narrative cohesion with the present day storyline and his refusal to give in which has once again led to people starving and now the threat is not a threat but turns out

a reality because we do see cannibalism in his camp. Exciting. I think it's so interesting that Stannis goes north where cannibalism becomes a thing again for his camp. Yeah. He says he does it out of duty. We know my feelings. we don't have to

go into it but he goes north and you know they go through their supplies he has nothing left but renly who did not learn the same lessons as stannis from that same event has placed those supply lines far away so even if renly survived this evening and survived the battle with Stannis, I mean, they might have ended up having some issues with food supply, right? Like we mentioned last episode. And I think it's so interesting that Stannis, this happens because of environment, and Renly, this happens by choice. I think that shows a lot about their characters here. Interesting.

Yes, definitely. Catelyn's patience is wearing out, and she reminds Renly he promised her a word. He commands his men to see to their battles, and if they find Barristan, spare him. They tell him there's no way Barristan's with Stannis, but Renly's like, Barristan will only support who he thinks is a rightful king. He hasn't been seen with any other kings. And Renly, girl, I'm here to say that is because no one ever looked for a girl, bitch. Yep.

They really didn't. I mean, Robert thought maybe we should look for the girl, but to kill her. Who would have known Robert was kind of right for his own reign every once in a while robert what if we killed the children the children all die anyway they give renly their word bowing out and brienne cloaks him this is a great wedding cloaks him in a heavy cloth of gold cloak with the crown stag of Baratheon flaked on it in jet. This is gorgeous. It sounds very it's a it's definitely a statement piece. It is.

It sounds cool. I mean, like it's it's a lot, maybe too much, but it sounds cool. Kind of interesting to look at that versus the threadbare cloak that Marjorie gets when she marries Joffrey. Or Sansa's. That's true well i guess the great helm doesn't really make a difference in battle i mean i don't really know i've never you know been in battle either no smalls never having siblings never been in battle but i it must not be that bad because Robert also had one and it sounds like his helm was also similarly impressive and all the fan art I see has like pretty big antlers so clearly this wasn't like a detriment I guess um but the heavy cloth as cool as it sounds

for fashion seems pretty fucking useless in in battle I mean, I've seen the no capes thing from the Incredibles, and that must probably apply here. It almost feels like Renly isn't taking the battle seriously, and this cloak, especially if it's heavy, is more of a hindrance than it is a help. And

this whole armoring scene actually reminds me of another Catelyn chapter of Catelyn in the Vale during the trial of Tyrion. And in fact, much of this chapter feels a little bit like a rehashing of that with, you know, you've got the picture-perfect knights who are in the Cerebonia armor, like Renly of course, against Stannis' much smaller troops who seemingly have no chance, but they are cunning, as pointed out by using the dawn

to gain every single advantage that they can get which is what braun does and i mean i i don't think sanis's army had a chance it was really small um it would have been like a bloodbath but that's why he literally made the shadow baby i know right he does win and he wins because of that using sorcery which is kind of funny again in the context of the Sansa chapter preceding this, where they're like, no one uses sorcery during war. They're like, but what if they did? Anyways, but even the Northern campaign for independence, right? It's a lot like that trial in the veil, just as this moment is, as everyone underestimates Rob and the Northerners, who keep winning, same as Bron does.

Yeah, and they have a much more simplistic fashion, you know? So I think that has something to do with it. No statement pieces like this cloak, or like the armor, or like the greaves, or like the boots, or like the crown, or like the...

Sorry, do you want me to pick a piece pick one you know you're supposed to focus on one if you're going like top heavy you're supposed to go light on bottom and vice versa i'm just like renly what are you trying to prove unless it's like for you know it's a runway statement which i guess i guess this is a runway event it could be yeah if if tourneys are like festivals then the first battle of a super big dynastic kinslaying event is like fucking i don't know fashion week i think anyways well in par with all the drama all the flair that ronley is bringing in this outfit cat brings the drama because she gets her big moment to reveal the lannisters are trying to kill bran and they tried hard when they were here i didn't realize it until stannis brought it up which is okay also

you shouldn't have led with stannis you know you should have been like, I didn't realize it until you were speaking, and Stannis said a thing, but you were speaking, Renly. And... Yes, true. She tells him Jaime and Cersei remained at Winterfell while the other men went out on a hunt. Renly is like, ah, yes, I know what it's like to sneak around with a lover. Go on. She begs him to let her go to Stannis

to tell him these suspicions, and that if the men will set their crowns aside, she knows that rob would do the same she hopes that's true in her head and in her heart i have to say this could have been okay one book ago but that's a pretty big assumption for cadeline to make uh just as northern independence has outgrown sansa and Arya's safety as priority. As we're about to get around to, all of this did

start because of Bran and Ned, but now it's more than just Ned and Bran and Sansa and Arya. Now it's the men of the North and their search for justice and independence. I don't know that they would put their crown aside. I don't know they would let Rob set it down. I don't think so either. I don't know that they would put their crown aside i don't know they would let rob set it down i don't think so either i don't know that they could i mean

there is a chance i think there's a non-zero chance right knowing that it they wouldn't have to bow to the lannisters because the line is illegitimate at least with that out of the picture there's a non-zero chance, but it would be quite hard. Yeah, it makes a foundation to start from. And that's where this next passage, I think, stood out like a big old boulder. Like, I just tripped over it as I read it. I was like, holy shit. Let the three of you call for a great council such as the realm has not seen for a hundred years.

We will send to Winterfell so Bran may tell his tale, and all men may know the Lannisters for the true usurpers. Let the assembled lords of the seven kingdoms choose who shall rule them. Renly laughed. Tell me, my lady, do direwolves vote on who should lead the pack? That literally just happened. I mean, yeah, like someday in the 15th book. No, I'm just kidding.

Well, that happened at the end of the first book. Right. I mean, that is the whole thing, right? Like they kind of do. They might not all be dire wolves, but the North voted for this 15-year-old to lead them. They were like, I would rather this kid who can barely grow hair on his neck lead us instead of the iron throne they were willing to say that publicly in front of a lot of

other people and risk their reputation and their thoughts on it so it turns out they chose a really badass 15 year old i'm gonna put that caveat in like yeah they got real lucky you know other people don't get stuck with good 14 15 year olds they get stuck with joffrey uh i mean the south thought renly had the best chance right and they went with him against stannis he was the more attractive option best option on the table uh but it wasn't like a voting experience really for anyone the north even wasn't really close to voting and i do think this is major foreshadowing i think that this is what we'll see in the end game of thrones right a great council such as the realm has not seen for a hundred years will send a winterfell so bran may tell his tale i will get that chance someday bran will get his chance to

tell his tale once he's come to fully understand and see all of it. Yeah, I mean, once he's been willing to face his trauma about it, right? And who has a better story? Oh my god. But I agree with what you're saying. It does really stand out now.

After watching the award-winning hit television series That the books are based upon? Yeah, that the books are based upon Game of Thrones. after watching the award-winning hit television series. That the books are based upon? Yeah, that the books are based upon Game of Thrones. This does stand out. And it's kind of funny to think about also in the context of we were talking about the bloodless revolution a few chapters ago where they also called a parliament together to be like,

so what do you think? Who should maybe rule? It seems like George has been thinking these things things thinking about councils every now and then especially when you look at how he's been building out things in fire and blood so really yes it's on his mind but as you said it's interesting that caitlin of all people is the one who also suggests it you know speaking of her own political acumen but also it feels like a very maestry you know kind of suggestion feels very academic um but it's also you know her her last plea for we can still make this whole thing fucking work if our point is to get the lanesters out right she's thinking of cersei at the beginning and she's like this is just we just gotta get them out and they can

figure it all, everything later on yeah and unfortunately later just keeps becoming later and for these guys they don't care, that's not the point for them and I think that's made clear yep, that is it is not

Brienne brings Renly's crown which again, it's those st stag horns it's a foot and a half tall and also brings his gauntlets and runley says it's time to be done with this nonsense talking catelyn begs him in the name of the mother but suddenly a gust of wind flings open the tent. Look under your chairs. A shadow crawls the wall, lifting its sword black on green as Renly begins his final jest. This happens so fast. Like, one moment Renly's just putting his armor on for 25 minutes, and then the next moment he's dead.

And I do have to highlight highlight i love that black on green right just like the blacks versus the greens and the princess and the queen yeah and the black water where this armor comes back up cold said renly in a small puzzled voice a heartbeat before the steel of his gorget parted like cheesecloth beneath the shadow of a blade that was not there. He had time to make a small, thick gasp before the blood came gushing out of his throat. No! cried Brienne the Blue, when she saw that evil flow, sounding as scared as any little girl. The king stumbled into her arms, a sheet of blood creeping down the front of his armor,

a dark red tide that drowned his green and gold. More candles guttered out. Renly tried to speak, but he was choking on his own blood. His legs collapsed and only Brienne's strength held him up. She threw back her head and screamed, wordless in her anguish. Catelyn knows instantly

this is dark magic. This is evil. Renly did not cast that shadow. Not unlike the Daenerys shadows that we talked about at the end of A Game of Thrones here. I'm definitely reminded of that as well. The shadows in the tent.

Yeah, oh, great yeah oh great point great point moments pass before robar royce and emin kai burst in seeing renly dead in brienne's arms drenched in his blood sir emin calls her wicked and vile but robar is a little sadder and kinder and it's like why why bri? Why'd you do it? And before anyone can give her a chance to be like, I didn't do it. Eamon is about to fuck her up with a battleaxe for killing the king, and

Catelyn screams, no, but it's too late, because she was just too shocked there. And the men are all riled up and ready to kill Brienne, and Brienne is quick as hell though. She takes Renly's sword from its scabbard because her own is too far catching Eamon's axe as it swings down and she's very impressive Catelyn's like oh

I didn't know she was this good Brienne sends his bat his axe head spinning and another man thrusts a torch at her back but her cloak is too wet to catch fire wet with blood and I almost feel like this kind of reminded me a little

of the R'hllorism trying to, I don't know why, this is what made me think of R'hllorism trying to catch in Westeros, right? But it can't truly stamp out or kill the Faith of the Seven, which has so much blood already invested in it. So much faith. Anyway,

the second man at arms lunges and they dance, and when emin comes waiting back brian retreats but she keeps them at bay i have to point this line out because i have not laughed oh i i belly laugh this was such a gut laugh on the ground renly's head rolled sickeningly to one side and a second mouth yawned wide. The blood coming from him now in slow pulses. Were you guys not laughing?

It was just so like, I could just see the chocolate syrup blood just glug, glug, glug, coming out of his throat. It's just embarrassing. It's just so fucking funny because his body's right there while they fight. Even in the afterlife, he's just like laying there in the middle and he gets pushed aside at some point.

Like someone kicks him aside, it's said. Which I just, I'm like, there's your king. Like there's the man you're all fighting over. No one's going to pick him up and lay him somewhere. Y'all are just going to battle Axel. Okay. All right. Good luck. World star shit happening in

this tent i mean how big is this tent this is like the fucking goblet of fire tent that arthur weasley has for the thing it's huge yeah it is remember like catelyn like comes into it and she's like what the fuck is this pavilion it's like super nice you know it's someone really gave renly a huge ass home depot gift card it was the tyrells it was i mean it's like it was a wedding present circus tent huger i don't know it's probably smaller than that but like so big it's just like it's a circus in here. Wow, there's your House of the Undying connection. Because it's just so big and there are probably so many doors in this huge ass tent. Who knows which one to go down.

Go down this one, it gives you death. Oh my god, it does though. Robar Royce hangs back and he's uncertain. He's about to go in after Brienne and get fighting. Catelyn seizes his arm, begging him to help them and understand it was Stannis who did this, not Brienne. Honestly, it's remarkable that this works, but I will say I love the language here as Catelyn comes to find the explanation that it was Stannis, and it was. We're going to find out in the next Davos chapter. It was indeed stannis and it it was we're gonna find out in the next douglas chapter it was indeed stannis um and so so the quote goes you do her wrong it was not her help her hear me it was stannis the name was on her lips before she could think how it got there but as she said

it she knew it was true i swear it you know me it was stannis killed him so the aspect of the name being on her lips before she could think it, but then she knew immediately it was true, it really highlights Catelyn's intuition and reflects a moment from her own daughter's chapter that is just before this one of, I would sooner return to my own bed. A lie came to her suddenly, but it seemed so right that she blurted it out at once. A lie came to her suddenly, but it seemed so right that she blurted it out at once. This tower was where my father's men were slain. Their ghosts would give me terrible dreams and I would see their blood wherever I looked. So whereas Catelyn's intuition helps her immediately recognize the truth in what she saw, Sansa's helps her find a lie. A lie that is based in truth, but it's made stronger, right?

It's still a lie, though the way that these scenes are written so like it feels interesting how similar like to me those moments are yeah there there's so much with sansa in this and there's actually something in this true night thing going on akin to sansa and dantos yes right now yes of her playing the lady and him the knight. Her begging him to save her, take her away. Even in literally the chapter right before this, Sansa is given protection from the enemy that she doesn't want. From Tyrion.

He gives her the stone crows or asks, you know, do you want the stone crows? And it's kind of similar to Catelyn being forced to stay a hostage under Renly's men here under watch and key by them uh and and there's also something very akin to aria at heron hall i would argue that as she leaves everything in chaos there right or even before then on the road with the death of lami or yoren and of course poor Robar Royce, the true knight. I think there's just so much here

of true knights or people that are actually doing the right thing, dying for these Starks one by one. But just like Arya, and a bit similar for Sansa, we've talked about Catelyn kind of losing that light and life within her, and Arya and Sansa are both being desensitized as we go along as well. And Arya and Sansa are both being desensitized as we go along as well. Catelyn's memory of Robar after he dies here, it goes from rainbow to colorless. He doesn't even come back into her memory after this. And her losing that appetite, that humanity, that religion, that faith. It's just so sad. It reminds me a lot of, like I I said Eddard's chapters in the end

with carrying that torch of feeling your faith leave you and feeling like you're trying to do the right thing but the right thing is hard and there's just so much adjacency of the ghosts of the past in this chapter and the ghosts of the now happening

in front of your eyes and Catelyn seeing this different child this young girl Brienne caught in the bloodshed of a man that she loved and it gets harder and harder to stick to your oaths and your vows catalan spends a lot of this compartmentalizing and putting things into kind of buckets that like well we'll just come back and deal with that later but there's no later for her later. But there's no later for her. You know? Yeah. There is no later for her.

It's not lost on me, too, that she says, you know, take my word, asks him to take her word and her name as a pledge. Yes. And it does not work that way on the phrase later. That's a great point, probably because they broke that word later but uh yeah yeah that probably gives that vow but they were like what is your name worth when you when you break your vows but here catelyn i mean it hasn't been sullied yet right she still uses it and she she puts a lot of she puts so much um emphasis on it and you know you said she uses the name she uses the stark name and so it really kind of shows that pride she has in that and you know that coming up for the royce here yes a royce saving a stark

there's an abundance of royces in the veil right now just putting it out there could sans a turn to a royce in the veil i think so i. I think so. Hopefully it's turning to Randa and their BFFs. Just kidding. That's probably not gonna happen. I mean, I like the idea of it. I don't know. Like, Randa's just kind of older. I don't really see myself, you know. I don't know. When I was 21, I just, like, wasn't

gonna be, like, best friends with, like, a 14 or 15 year old. Yeah. Not a 15 year old with better titties than me. Come on, now. Apparently. That is how it's all described but i mean even like the the whole royce thing it does also come again right to you're talking about these true knights um way more royce all the way in the prologue yeah with john yeah and yeah how like you said, tying to Jon, but also just like, you know, doing the right thing in the face of weird evil sorcery. Yeah, they were raised well. They were, you know, ultimately. Sometimes they lose their way and can be a little foolish, but ultimately.

before robar dies he stares at cadillac with his pale eyes and she explains the shadow to him that she has no clue how but knows that it was stannis and she says a shadow with a sword i swear it i saw are you blind the girl loved him help her more shouting starts outside angry men are about to burst in cadillac gives her word and he says he'll hold them off, giving time to slip away. Meanwhile, Eamon is pressing on Brienne, and he kind of forgot about Catelyn, lost in his bloodlust, until Catelyn brings out an iron brassiere down on his helm, pausing him for just long enough for them to escape out of the green silk and into the darkness. I love that. I feel like Catelyn, you know, gets mischaracterized as weak because she's ladylike, but she's not soft, though.

She isn't. She shows the same physical courage here that she did when the cat's paw came for Bran, which, you know, is a chapter that ties heavily into this one because of all the stuff that we've already talked about this episode. And it gives Brienne a chance to recover, before caitlin's own calm during all this madness which allows them to escape you know she flinches right at the beginning when she's like what the fuck is happening why are people fighting which to be fair is also kind of the theme is also kind of what happened last chapter. What the fuck?

Why are people fighting? But here, you know, she comes together real fast and is able to make their way out. Yeah. And, you know, we see a lot of that kind of physical prowess translate to Arya's story and some of the things that Arya does as a much more physical-minded and physical-act character. But I am thinking about Sansa in the chapters with Lysa, and when Lysa tries to take her down out the moon door, Sansa grabs Lysa and is like, uh-uh, I'm taking you down with me.

Kat taught them to scrap. She taught them to mind your body. Don't let anyone put hands on you, girls. I gotta respect that. I gotta respect that. Yeah, yeah. Shows that. Katlyn urges Brienne,

all right, when we escape, you gotta walk. You gotta walk easy and slowly. Or they're gonna question why we are in such a hurry and leaving. Are we just gonna act like everything is normal? Everything's fine. And so, yeah, no one stops them, though men begin to run past speaking of sorcery and murder and some are praying and some are openly sobbing uh and this is just a redux before black water and a redux before

dragons and westeros that's true well we have this passage of The night fires had burned low, and as the east began to lighten, the immense mass of storms and emerged like a dream of stone, while wisps of pale mist raced across the field, flying from the sun on wings of wind. Mourning ghosts, she had heard old Nan call them once, spirits returning to their graves, and Redleyly one of them

now gone like his brother Robert like her own dear Ned Grey mist just saying indeed watching me like what a shit show is he eating popcorn is he eating popcorn

Ludraven is sitting there in like a marabou he's probably like wearing the Tytos Blackwood collection right now in the cave. Yeah, he's like, ooh, this reality TV. Oh my god. So, sad. It's actually real sad.

As far as we're sad. You know, Brienne quietly lamenting that she never got to actually really hold renly except for in his dying moments and her voice is soft and sounds like it could break at any moment and she remembers him laughing during one moment then blood everywhere and and she just doesn't understand what's happened and it's just so poor brienne you know she was seen as guilty because of the blood on her cloak but she was innocent and she ends up being accused of being a kingslayer as a member

of the king's guard uh the rainbow guard but it's the same thing just rebranded and and it's as you were saying right when we were talking about those true knights it's a real physical embodiment of you know highlighting brienne's own adherence to knightly virtue because we see that the king's guard in king's landing that tyrian mocks them uh when he's telling them to stop beating sansa a little girl for her own brothers like victories on the field like a bazillion miles away lest they get blood on their own white cloaks which are pure and clean whereas Brienne's stained but she's innocent yeah

and of course there's obvious Sandor thoughts I'm not going to go into Sandor thoughts during this because I feel like someday when we get to Brienne there's just so many great parallels to break into it so I'll withhold them for now. Okay, thank you for your... Yeah, right.

Catelyn tells Brienne what she saw, a shadow. At first she thought it was Renly's, but then she realized it was Lord Stannis. And she says that she knows it makes no sense at all. But Brienne is like, good enough for me. Let's kill Stannis. I'll kill him. I'll kill him with my lord's own sword. I swear it.

I swear it. I swear it. Yes. I love the repetition of like, I swear it. I swear it. Like that three times. It really kind of evokes that this is a holy vow, you know, when you swear something three times. So there's another kind of maybe this is sorcery also, right?

In response to the other sorcery. Bloody Mary, Bloody Mary, Bloody Mary. Oh, my God. I mean, it's a thought. Well, if you don't get episode 133, now you all know why. Rip. Rip. Not just friendly, but me, too.

Oh, wow. A crowding. Oh, my God. I didn't even think of that as like a vow or as her own kind of curse. And I love that as these witchy women. No, it is. And especially because the last chapter, Sansa, gets accused, you know, of her brother's witchcraft and of kind of being a witchy woman herself. witchcraft and of kind of being a witchy woman herself catalan uh obviously lives with it and brienne has lived with this feeling for so long too of being kind of othered or made to be this

separate person as someone not very representative of what the perfect person in society should be and i i don't know i didn't think about that it's's like a curse, and I love it. I love that, that she's totally putting a curse upon Stannis there, or a vow to get him. A vow for sure, because we know that Brienne is all about vows and oaths. And you know, you were talking about witchy women, and there is of course a witchy woman hanging over this entire chapter. Yes. Melisandre, of course, and when we were talking about weaponizing motherhood, I mean, literally that. Yeah, right. That is someone's son. That's someone's son. Oh my god.

The transition to a religion in this, starting with the shadows on the wall, literally, and moving into the shadow off the wall here. That's definitely interesting. Yeah. Off the wall, like Tony Hawk. Oh my god. I do have to say, George based this on the show the books are based on, right? Oh, absolutely. Because this right here is based on season five for Brienne, where she kills Stannis.

Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Real talk. I don't know. I was always of the mind with the bad show that season five Brienne might have been mildly out of character in killing Stannis. I feel this way because it doesn't make great logistical sense, right? I think I am of the belief that Stannis is going to sacrifice Shireen at the night fort, and I think that Brienne's plot doesn't involve her moving north till the end of the Winds of Winter.

That doesn't make it impossible. I think she has to hook up to go north somehow maybe it's aria sand or whatever some sort of craziness that gets her north i wonder if her plot and her interfacing with jamie and different characters on the way and her interfacing with oaths and vows and keeping oaths and vows is actually going to be about the opposite is going to be about her putting aside this vengeance against Stannis because she doesn't really think of him much in her own POV chapters. She thinks about him probably like one time

and thinks that he was right about the incest. We'll definitely talk about this more someday in Brienne chapters, but I am curious to see what bits of vengeance for Renly really stick with her right after all she's been through and all of the different tasks that she's taking on as a knight uh right now she's growing and who she is not only as a young person but as a knight is going to change especially by the end of the story and things take much different meaning to her now in this chapter even than they would a week ago when she was trying out for runley's cheerleader squad you know like literally his

entire little tourney there to get his last king's guard member or to get well not that wasn't the point but for brianne it was but that tourney is like every cw show when they cast for a cheerleader tryout scene you know when they're like oh no how are you gonna survive the bitchy other cheerleaders punk rock main character that's what it was yeah i don't know i don't know where it's gonna go with uh brianne's character i do think this is meaningful that it is sworn three times but also i'm like i mean i'm not about to get my hands bloody for some guy who didn't care about me well and that's kind of one of the things we learn right through like young adulthood

being i'm serious like i i'm half joking here but like i am serious like i think that is a part of her character especially in how she will interface with jamie and grow with him right and obviously they might not have a super happy ending together but she's going to learn from that experience and learn more about what she wants and also what defines her and what she wants to be as a knight as someone who protects others yeah learning what it looks like when someone actually gives a fuck versus when they don't yeah while they reach the northerners who are waiting with horses asking what happened and caitlin explains so there's not gonna be a battle king runley is dead but but not by our hands and so the escort just forms around her and she's like we're gonna just we're gonna go we're gonna

go and direct spree and to you know just take a mouth of your choosing we've brought more than enough and brienne's like i have to go get my armor and my own horse and caitlin's like no we've gotta go now all right before anyone thinks to look for us because people know we were in that tent then caitlin commands them all to ride and she's like if anyone tries to stop us cut them down right bossy shit going on uh cat is definitely playing like commando in this chapter and i love it she is head honcho head hon chess if you will and her being like if anyone tries to fuck with us kill them if they fuck, they will find out. But this is actually a really sad little passage and very symbolic.

That's Brienne's armor. That's her armor that she wore as she got her spot on the Kingsguard, her cosplay for Runley's squad. She worked really hard to have it, to wear it, to hold it. Harder than a lot of the other people on runley's squad did as well as bearing twice the shame and mocking that they did to get the job but yeah the reality is that this is that price of being a knight and being a true knight and we see this often through dunk right her uh ancestor who lives from hedge to hedge, lord to lord, horse to horse, sword to sword, being willing to know what is actually important, a piece of sheet metal or your life and soul. And I find it so interesting that Brienne's sword here is highlighted

that she took Renly's sword. We'll have to kind of follow that through the book when she gets rid of it, if he just kind of gardened it away, weeded it away. Because when Jaime and her meet, and when Jaime is then returned to his wealthy resources later for a bit, he presents her that piece of stability, right, for someone who has had to start at the bottom as a knight again in Feast. Oathkeeper. And that's where I think that change in that translation is going to come from what stannis means to her because the oaths that define you as a knight change as you change and brienne is changing and becoming herself as she grows right like she's growing into the person

she's going to be in these experiences that are shaping her so i i've got to kind of look at that sword again because there really isn't a lot about her sword besides, I think it's just, is that the one that he's fighting with and he loses? Jaime, is that the one that they fight? Oh, Renly's sword? Yeah. I don't know.

I feel like George just gardened that sucker away, huh? High gardened it away. He high gardened. I'd like to be high gardening it away too i think that's a that's really interesting and you know one day one day we'll dig into that but you know digging back into catlin's character right we were touching on this a little before her her calm and absolute clarity and like, all right, here's how we're going to get out of the tent. And now here's how we're going to get out of the camp. And I love how you're pointing out, you know, her leadership during this moment of and also kind of ruthlessness, right? And the need to be in terms of the pragmatism of getting out.

kind of ruthlessness right and the need to be in terms of the pragmatism of getting out and she orchestrates her own escape very much like arya kind of orchestrates her own escape aries is much more bloody right but her escape from heron hall and i kind of wonder you know sansa also has her own escape too right which parallels catelyn's in some ways in that, you know, Catelyn is at a place where she seems very guilty and suspicious of killing a king. She seems very, very implicated. And Sansa, when she finally gets a chance to make her escape from King's Landing,

it is during a time when there is also much hubbub. All right, there's a lot of chaos because another king has died and she actually is kind of implicated though she is yeah mildly mildly brought into this uh and has a mild has been used as an accessory in murder which because of her own hair accessories so she probably doesn't like that very much, but also implicated. And so I wonder, you know, we're seeing both of these both of

Catelyn's daughters making escapes, same as she does in, you know, similar circumstances, and we're probably gonna see them do a couple more. I wonder if we'll see Sansa one day grow into being like, alright, everyone, we're just gonna go. Cut down anyone who gets in the way. I mean, is clearly already there she's not ordering she's like i'm gonna do it

i'm gonna kill people and then her friends in the background being like but aria did we really need to kill that man in order to escape just now and will she remember that man in a decade no one knows as the long fingers of dawn fanned across the fields color was returning to the world where gray men had sat gray horses armed with shadow spears the points of ten thousand lances now glinted silverly cold And on the myriad flapping banners, Catelyn saw the blush of red and pink and orange, the richness of blues and browns, the blaze of gold and yellow, all the power of Storm's End and Highgarden, the power that had been Renly's an hour ago. They belong to Stannis now, she realized, even if they do not know it themselves yet.

to stannis now she realized even if they do not know it themselves yet where else are they to turn if not the last baratheon stannis has won all with a single evil stroke i am the rightful king he had declared his jaw clenched hard as iron and your son no less a traitor than my brother here his day will come as well. A chill went through her. Don't worry, Catelyn, he doesn't get all of the swords and it's the other creepy guy that gets your son, not Stannis. Right. Where else are they to

turn if not to the last Baratheon? To the other, allegedly, allegedly Baratheon. Well, I mean, some of them go to the lannisters they're like fuck this maybe to the next last dragon you know aegon aegon targaryen oh shit i mean yeah as we've discussed similar vibes similar yeah well i mean yeah in terms of the other creepy guy that gets him not stanis but i mean was it how do we know the leech the leech didn't play a role the leech the lord leech pick one whichever one you want both leeches oh what if okay hold on. What if the leech, as Standis was burning the leech on the brassiere, it warged into Roose Bolton to stab Robb Stark? Have you thought of it. Ever. Now that I'm thinking of it, I'm going to try to dispose of the

thought. Alright. Alright, Eliana. You're gonna have to stop leeching off my energy with that one. Oh, okay. Wow. I just wanted to make a pun. I don't know. I didn't have much else. You're gonna have to

leech. No. Leech. No. That one doesn't work either. Leech me alone. don't know i didn't have i didn't have much else you're gonna have to leave no lee no that one doesn't work either leech me alone leech me alone that is a there you go leech me alone that could be a great alternate title too now that you say it i think that's that's more of a red bedding kind of of title. Leech me alone, Rhys Fulton! Oh my gosh. Thank you so much, everyone, for listening in to a very grave episode. A very serious episode.

We're gonna be really sad to leech you alone, but if you want to check out our social media this week, send us an email about what you're thinking about the episodes or even tweet us a thread of your own about your feelings about catalan 4 you can do that at girls gone canon on twitter c-a-n-o-n or email us over at girls gone canon at gmail.com yes and perhaps you would

like to keep up with us and our episodes and see what happens next. Not that this is a reread or anything. You can find us on Google Play, Apple Podcasts. Apparently everyone hates that now. Podbean, Spotify, Stitcher, Acast, Overcast maybe?

Audible? Pandora? iHeartRadio? Yeah. We're there. You're so good. I did great this week. Last week I was like, I gotta redeem myself. Redemption arc for Eliana. You know, maybe it's not a redemption arc. Maybe it's a humanization arc.

Oh, wow. Do I weep over my children? Listen, if you don't want to subscribe to us on one of those fancy schmancy public platforms, you can head over to Patreon.com where there are a bunch of perks depending on the tier you sign up for. Stranger tier and above, five bucks and above tier. You're going to get special episodes every month, whether they're His Dark Materials or A Song of Ice and Fire. This month is A Song of Ice and Fire. this month is A Song of Ice and Fire. It is on the Free Cities lore-ath.

And don't forget about our Discord brunch slash happy hour. This month will be happening July 18th, Sunday, 1 to 3 p.m. Eastern Time. And a bunch of fun shenanigans are going to happen. Some free prizes, giveaways, some bingos, some trivia. You name it. Come hang out with us. It's going to be a blast. Yeah, I'm really excited because this month our friend Julie on the Patreon has put together some really fun activities for trivia.

Because it's July. Julie July. Julie July. So it's been really July. So it's been really great and it's going to be fun. Come hang out. Yeah. I've got to say, Julie

Julie's got an eye for it. It looks really good. So I'm excited. Well, as always, I have been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I have been been one of your hosts chloe and i have been another one of your hosts eliana we'll see you next week goodbye